Also many MANY skaven.... therefor space Ver Min by definition a must purchase!
Final note... Ver Min gagging to be converted to Skyre or Warplock Enginseers.... yay happy Druidic
on a more serious note, Discussed with Jake Thornton about the game and its plans.
Will contain 10 figures of each race and 6 missions, mission 1 being a training game the Corperation cant win, the other 5 being a linkex arc but with not tranfered stuff between them.
Potential for very simple multiplayer rules, while unlikely to be in the main game, likely to be available for download.
Game appears complex at first, but plays quite quick after about 15 minutes of getting your head arround, my 14 yearold picked it up fast enough to do better thrn some adults.
The devil is in the details, I could see this being a classic "simple to learn, tricky to master" game which makes.it a winner in my book.
I don't mind the idea of space rats, but the models are pretty bad, and why would the fluff be "don't talk about the 8th race" when they are just space rats? I mean the models show they haven't even mastered making clothes as everything they wear is ripped and torn. And we are supposed to believe this civilizationly inept race has mastered space travel or is actually a threat in the mantic universe to anyone?
It really makes no sense. There is no sense of dread inspired by the 8th race if they are the space rats. The universe for mantic is so laughably bad, it actually harms the appeal of the models. The reason people like GW is because they like the fluff and the universe.
The rush to make a big universe with loads of poorly designed knockoff races hurts mantic. They keep writing checks their models quality can't cash.
nkelsch wrote:I don't mind the idea of space rats, but the models are pretty bad, and why would the fluff be "don't talk about the 8th race" when they are just space rats?
New info on the Mantic blog about 'Corporation week'
With all of the Corporation unveiled now for the launch in March, we’re going to be taking a look at what went into building the army, some new battleshots of the Corporation in action and we’ve even put your questions from Facebook to Mike McVey!
Over the weekend, pictures of the Major-General broke cover. Many of you will have noticed that we snuck him into the shot on the home page – here’s the full photo:
What’s great about the Major-General is he is the first Mantic hero with variant options. You can take him with the Energy Sword…
… or the Energy Fist:
This great Remy sculpt has been effortlessly brought to life by the fine fellows at Golem Painting Studio. You can pick it up in the webstore now as either an individual blister or free in our great value pre-launch army deals.
Not sure what the Corporation stuff had to do with Mike McVey, does anyone know?
BTW is it correct that "with all of the Corporation unveiled now", the army consists of the following choices:
One standard troop, one elite troop, one heavy weapon and one officer?
nkelsch wrote:I don't mind the idea of space rats, but the models are pretty bad, and why would the fluff be "don't talk about the 8th race" when they are just space rats?
It is a reference to the Skaven background.
But yet they are not GW rip-offs? It makes no sense to me why they would make a core aspect of their fluff dependant on GW fluff.
nkelsch wrote:I don't mind the idea of space rats, but the models are pretty bad, and why would the fluff be "don't talk about the 8th race" when they are just space rats?
It is a reference to the Skaven background.
But yet they are not GW rip-offs? It makes no sense to me why they would make a core aspect of their fluff dependant on GW fluff.
nkelsch wrote:I don't mind the idea of space rats, but the models are pretty bad, and why would the fluff be "don't talk about the 8th race" when they are just space rats?
It is a reference to the Skaven background.
But yet they are not GW rip-offs? It makes no sense to me why they would make a core aspect of their fluff dependant on GW fluff.
If there wasn't a direct monetary incentive to rip off a competing product, then I might agree with you on a fan-fiction or fan-art. If this was someones custom codex for a converted army they made for skaven in space, then it might be a hommage.
This is not. And for once I thought MANTIC was doing something original by having a dangerous alien race which was in their universe that the corporation had a reason for keeping a whole races existence under wraps... and then to find out it was just space rats was a letdown. To hear it was a direct reference to GW's Skaven is even worse.
(I am still not even sure I get the reference as I am not a big Skaven fluff buff, can anyone elaborate how it is a reference to Skaven?)
Current sketchy rumours hint at a small jeep-sized kit later in the year. I think it's a tough one for Mantic since they know they can't release a big vehicle at a low price point.
Thankfully, plenty of other companies are releasing suitable vehicles in the mean time. Secret Weapon and Proxie-models are the two I'm keeping an eye on. Same goes for terrain, the Vengeance Miniatures stuff for Warpath seems to have disappeared off the face of the earth (their website is down), but I don't see it as a big deal since there's Warmill and Sarissa both making excellent generic stuff.
scarletsquig wrote:Some extra snippets posted by Mantic staff:
There are two Plastic Resin Veer-myn kits in the office at the moment - the Night-Crawlers and the Stalkers.
They are different units; unique torsos, heads, arms and weapons in each. Heads and arms are seperate from the body on both of them.
Maybe it is a good thing that the 8th race is basically Skryre Skaven: I can use them to diversify my Skaven army Suddenly it is an advantage that the biggest threat in a SciFi universe is barefoot and wears medieval armour and loincloths
It is probably time to take all of the stuff that isn't news, rumors or discussion thereof to another thread, one that isn't located in the News & Rumors forum.
Dakka Discussions maybe?
All Off Topic discussion will be deleted as such, and warnings, and possibly suspensions, will be handed out for continuing any off topic posting in this thread.
Thanks!
lord marcus wrote:
Alpharius wrote:OK...
This is the MANTIC News (and rumors) Thread.
It is probably time to take all of the stuff that isn't news, rumors or discussion thereof to another thread, one that isn't located in the News & Rumors forum.
Dakka Discussions maybe?
All Off Topic discussion will be deleted as such, and warnings, and possibly suspensions, will be handed out for continuing any off topic posting in this thread.
Pretty sure I've seen this terrain before, it was made by a small company that specialized in resin based gothic sci-fi terrain (i.e 40k style), maybe Mantics made some sort of deal with them.
Some interview questions with Mike McVey, from the Mantic Blog.
What was your primary inspiration for the Corporation? Were any particular movies, historical eras, novels, or games inspirational? I’ll answer this from a visual perspective – Alessio would be the man to ask about the inspiration for the background of the Corporation. We drew inspiration from a wider variety of different places for the way the troops look (at least the ones you have seen so far!) – there are definite echoes of modern American Infantry in the way they look, but we wanted to make sure they had a clear sci-fi look and feel.
There are some classic movie renderings of science fiction soldiers – Aliens being a prime example, but we felt they were just a little on the low-tech side for what we wanted. You have to remember though – The Corporation is a huge and varied faction, encompassing lots of the human population of the Warpath universe, so what you have seen so far is only just scrapping the surface of what they have to offer.
what kind of releases have you planned in the future for the Corporation? Some really exciting ones! I’m obviously not going to give anything away, but we have [*Edited by the power of the Corporation*] being worked on at the moment for something later this year, and they are looking stuffing. In fact I would go as far as to say the first sculpt is the best thing in the whole Mantic range so far… I’m very excited about it. In the longer term we will be moving upwards in size a little, and focusing on different aspects of the Corporation army rather than infantry.
Does the Corporation know what the 8th race is? Good question! I’m not really the man to answer that question, but I can tell you this – if they don’t know by now, they are about to find out. Project Pandora is coming…!
What can we expect from Vehicles? My Forgefathers want a transport. Funny you should mention vehicles, there has been a lot of discussion around that subject lately. We’ve got a couple of vehicles in the game so far (the Marauder Raptor and Forge Father Hailstorm cannon), and there are definitely some more on the way. We’ll be doing some different medium sized vehicles for both of those factions, and then stepping up the size to something a little more impressive. Put it this way, a large part of the last design meeting was spend stacking up various objects of different sizes, to decide just how large out next foray into vehicles will be…
The first concept (from the ever wonderful Roberto Cirillo) is done – and I have to say it’s looking fantastic. Other than that, you’ll have to wait and see.
Some new pics from the blog for your enjoyment (not really news I know):
Kind of thought we would be seeing more Project Pandora news by now. Mantics blog made it sound like some great big unveiling of the game and the 8th race was going to happen, yet so far all we've seen is a few floor tiles, tokens and two unimpressive veermyn miniatures.
Would love to see more of the veermyn, I'm still holding judgment on the army as a whole until I see more.
Considering that the models are resin plastic, they've done a good job of keeping the cost down on the army box. I know it's not the really, really cheap prices and plastic sprues that a lot of people want from Mantic, but personally speaking, I don't care. Corp are more expensive than the Forgefathers and Marauders, but are way better. Seperate heads and arms on all models, none of that 2-part clone trooper rubbish. Good variety of special, heavy and melee weapons included. I'm happy to pay a little extra for Mantic to do a proper job and produce some good stuff, and with the Corp I think they've finally got something that a good amount of 40k players might be interested in.
As I think a lot of people on here will agree, it doesn't matter how cheap the models are if they don't cut it in terms of quality, so for once I really don't mind the higher prices because I can at least see a tangible quality increase for the money. It's not just like GW where they randomly double the prices of 10-year old kits for no reason, I can see where the money has been spent to make these better than the cheaper forgefathers and marauders. As an aside, the resin plastic material is superior to plastic IMO, it has undercuts, plastic doesn't, and this really makes a huge difference to the sculpt since you don't get that loss of detail on the sides of the model that you do with plastic.
If anyone is curious about what Mantic's resin plastic looks like "out of the box" BoW did an unboxing of the mantic wraiths recently. Close-ups of the models start at about 2 minutes into the video, and the models are good examples of sculpts that would not have been possible to make in plastic due to all the undercuts on the robes.
Worth noting that Wayland has the army box up for pre-order at 25% off and also currently has a free shipping voucher code (FREESHIPFEB) for the next 5 days on orders over £40.
hrm.. so AU$60-odd for 4 squads of infantry, 3 weapon teams and an officer (to get us over the £40 mark - and because it's a nice model). I might cautiously buy that...
Mantic have just re-launched their official forums.
The blurb from their blog:
Upgrading our existing Forum package in almost every way, the new Community hub is your place to talk about all things Mantic.
From discussing that last game of Kings of War you played to giving the newest sculpts from Mantic the once over, the new Forum is slicker, faster and a lot more user friendly.
You can now have your own Forum name and avatar, with a simplistic and painless sign-up process where you no longer have to enter all of your address details.
Furthermore, you can now post pictures of your armies and showcase your models without having to link to external sites, and you can search through threads and posts easier than ever before.
Like the Corporation? Hankering after a copy of Project Pandora? Tell us on the forum (or drop us a comment below… or on Facebook… or Twitter. In fact, there’s loads of ways to talk to us!)
There’s also a Blog where our Pathfinders and moderators can report back on the shows they’ve been too and what miniatures they’ve recently painted.
Of course, this feature is open to you as well, meaning you can share your hobby with us in more ways than ever before.
We’ve still got some more tweaks and a couple of new features to add, but for now, check out the new Forum, get signed up and get posting!
Seems to be a similar system to the latest Warseer. Certainly, I think it will be nice to have a focal point for Mantic and it certainly looks a lot better than the previous one.
We’ve now broken the back of February and we’ve hurtled straight into March, a month that is going to be marked by the sci-fi troopers of the Corporation, ahead of April’s Project Pandora and May’s Veer-myn launch.
Speaking of Veer-myn, towards the end of the month we’re going to be giving away a free Veer-myn Dossier – a free guide to the new sci-fi race from Mantic Games. It’ll include stats to use the models in Warpath, background and the first look at the Veer-myn units.
Those of you already on the newsletter would have received the Corporation Dossier and seen the new units before anyone else – the Veer-myn Dossier will do absolutely the same thing, bringing you all the latest news straight to your inbox!
Look out for the newsletter towards the end of the month if you’re already signed up and, if you’re not, all you need to do is enter your name and email address into the sign-up form here and you’ll automatically be registered to receive the Dossier.
Speaking of Veer-myn, towards the end of the month we’re going to be giving away a free Veer-myn Dossier – a free guide to the new sci-fi race from Mantic Games. It’ll include stats to use the models in Warpath, background and the first look at the Veer-myn units.
Those of you already on the newsletter would have received the Corporation Dossier and seen the new units before anyone else – the Veer-myn Dossier will do absolutely the same thing, bringing you all the latest news straight to your inbox!
This is good news for me.
I enjoyed my first game of Warpath and will probably be playing it again next week. Every new army list released gives me more units with which to more accurately represent the 40k figures I've been using. Of course the Forgefather and Corporation lists on their own do a pretty good job of representing my Marines and IG, but it's still nice to have more options. Especially if I ever get around to painting my backlog of eldar and orcs...
I'm looking forward to at some point being able to buy a hard copy of the rules with all the races included.
Corporation versus Veer-myn, this is the first half of the artwook from the upcoming army box sets (no details on contents), the same art is going to be used across
both sets, I'm guessing one half on each.
However, what you must really ask yourself, if show the commander got to where he is in the picture? Obviously, he's not just been standing there; the rock is to sheer, and he's in mid sprint. So he obviously ran from one point, bounded onto the rock(judging from how tall said rock is, it'd have to be from above/ on level with it) to carry his momentum. Now, look at the background. Where is there anywhere that could meet the requirements of said running? Bit of a pickle.
ghosty wrote:However, what you must really ask yourself, if show the commander got to where he is in the picture? Obviously, he's not just been standing there; the rock is to sheer, and he's in mid sprint. So he obviously ran from one point, bounded onto the rock(judging from how tall said rock is, it'd have to be from above/ on level with it) to carry his momentum. Now, look at the background. Where is there anywhere that could meet the requirements of said running? Bit of a pickle.
I had the same thought, it hurt my brain the first time I saw the picture because something feels wrong. There is no way he is going to be able to right himself and stand on whatever he is leaping on to.
AegisGrimm wrote:I find it funny the things that get nitpicked on these forums.
But its like...
depending on your eye sight, something might not stick out like a sore thumb.
Well to the untrained eye.
That picture is awful, its flat like the Doom of the Forge Star set picture
One of the most common complaints with the Forge Fathers was the use of the KoW Dwarf parts rather than something that looked more appropriate for sci-fi.
So, I think for people who already have the standard sprues, they can update these with enclosed helms, a more armoured torso and legs, and some special weapons.
The forge fathers that are Pure Sci-Fi look really good. So far the stormrage vets, the Drakkarims and steel warriors are the only models that look good enough for me to paint.
Let's hope for some thought and maybe see what a good maurauder upgrade would look like as space orcs with real technology and space armor is something no one anywhere has done yet. Chainmail + Goggles = fail.
LunaHound wrote:
depending on your eye sight, something might not stick out like a sore thumb.
Well to the untrained eye.
You don't have to have an "untrained eye" to be able to look at the picture and immidiately accept it for the comic-book-heroic exageration that it is. Come on folks, are you really expecting realism from the art or miniatures of a game that so blatantly copies 40k? (I don't mean "copy" negatively).
Might as well start complaining about how the troops are all bunched up...
or the commander is standing on top of a rock in the middle of a battle...
or that the trooper behind him is standing up to be shot at without pointing his weapon the right direction...
or....or...or....
That said, if you really want to justify the pic, there's no reason he couldn't have run up the unseen back of the junk pile, and is now about turning to run down the right (viewer's perspective) side. I've done nearly the same move (sans laser-pistol and sword) jogging/scrambling through boulder fields after rock climbing.
Hi all, just got an email from mantic, heres the jist of it:
Next week the blog is devoted to Project Pandora: Grim Cargo as we delve deeper into the gameplay, background and miniatures behind this brand new sci-fi board game
we’re also launching a new Podcast with the introductory episode a Pandora special as we interview Mr Thornton himself. Going to release the Veer-myn Dossier!
Place a pre-order of Project Pandora: Grim Cargo through the website and you might win a free hero figure, either a Veer-myn Night Lord or Corporation Major-General, (no entry/cut-off dates given on this?)
Nothing much, just a few tidbits to look forward to.
Looking at the rules in the Warpath ForgeFather list, I'm guessing it's a kind of mech (maybe Dreadnought sized?)
There is however another entry called 'Forge Guard' which have an improved defensive capability compared to Steel Warriors, so I'm hoping they will be exo-armour equivalents
The Dwarf Wolf wrote:That one is a dread... there will be termies...
Really? any more info?
Just looking at the Warpath rules, the 'Iron Ancestor' is a really expensive (points wise) single miniature, which is pretty powerful so stands to reason it is something like a Dreadnought.
The 'Forge Guard' have a better defensive value than standard Steel Warriors, so I'm guessing some kind of Exo/Terminator armour equivalent.
If the ForgeFathers get that as a Dread-sized model, I will finally buy Forgefathers as a small force for 40K as I have been wanting to do some "Combat Patrol" size games. If they get exo-armor equivalents.....wow, even better.
I need to figure something out for them to use as a codex, though. They could obviously be Space Marine proxies, but I already have three different marine armies.
I really love the Corp marines, it's too bad I already have a bunch of AT-43 troops I use as Imperial Guard, because I like Mantic's realistic proportions vs. GW guardsmen.
Black Nexus wrote:The Corporation marines have now been unboxed in photos, so you can see exactly what goes into the Marines twin-pack and Project Pandora:
Here are the details of the blog-post for the click-lazy:
Unboxing Project Pandora: The Corporation in Pictures
Ten Corporation Marines feature in Project Pandora: Grim Cargo, and today we’ve stolen a bag from the warehouse, split it open and taken some pictures to show you everything you get! Let’s get to it:
You get nine standing torsos and one set of kneeling legs. In response to feedback from the community, all of the heads and arms are separate.
There are a total of 11 Heads.
The Kit comes complete with 9 Rifles, 1 Pistol and 1 Energy Fist. There’s also three Special Weapons.
Of course, you can also get all of this twice in the Corporation Marines Twin-pack.
We’ve designed this set to be outstanding value for money, combining two Marine sections (20 figures, and 6 special weapons) into one Mantic carry case with foam, bases and Mantic Points – that’s 10 infantry models for £12.50.
And that’s it folks – drop us your feedback below! Would you like to see more of these photographed unboxings? What do you think of the models?
Project Pandora: Grim Cargo is now available to pre-order and ships in April. Pre-order now to be entered into a draw to win one of ten Corporation or Veer-myn heroes. For more details click here.
They look nice, but shame the photo of the head isn't a bit clearer.
'Project Pandora' week starts on the blog tomorrow, leading up to the release of the boxset.
I'm looking forwards to getting my order shipped this week. The rangers have 9 of those special weapons, 3 of each type, which really opens up the conversion possibilities.
Those photos are terrible, the torsos look like they lost detail and the guns are obscenely gross being all bent. If GW released a kit with warped guns like that, the Internet would probably explode.
the difference being that warped resin generally takes a little hot water, or judicious use of a lighter to straighten out while bubbles and sandwichmarines make for a hell of a lot of fixing more.
Alpharius wrote:It is a bit odd when companies let their excitement get in front of their ability to showcase good product!
Warped miniatures in a preview pic?
Huh?
Mantic seem to have made it a running theme of producing poor photos of unassembled/painted minis. To be honest, it doesn't look like its even been put through photoshop to sort out the contrast/colour balance etc.
In their defence, it was just a simply blog post and it's nice to have any preview at all, but it would be nice to have that kind of thing done with a bit more professionalism rather than something that just looks like it has been done on a camera phone.
The guns aren't pictured side-on, they're tilted upwards at an angle.
Makes it hard to judge if they're warped or not. The special weapons are all dead straight and pictured side-on.
All the other pre-release pics I've seen (mantic forum members have gotten their hands on the models early) show straight guns as well.
I'm not making any statement either way, just relaying what I'm seeing.
The models will be hitting the general public next week, so loads more unboxing pics will be available them. Hopefully BoW or someone will do a hi-res video on them.
A bloody big box...
...arrived this morning...
containing this pile of goodies...
...my pre-order Mantic Corporation Marines - seven bags of plastic (?) figures, six sprues of plastic (?)bases, four laser-cut MDF bases and a game rule-book. There are four bags of basic marine components (nine torso/leg combinations in three different poses - with different equipment layout on each - nine sets of arms in three different poses - weapon attached to right hand and three different heads and three additional weapons. There is also a kneeling, squad leader with another head option and a powerfist and pistol); one bag of Rangers (essentially the same body and arm combinations but with a different weapon, heavier armoured shoulder pads, a backpack and a different, helmeted head); a bag with three heavy weapons and kneeling crew with choice of weapon barrel; the final bag has one heavy weapon and crew and eight (I think - I haven't opened this bag yet) basic Marine components.
here are the torsos and heads
These are wonderfully sculpted and cast miniatures with lots of excellent detail and great converion possibilities. Yes, there are mould lines and a little flash here and there and it's not clear which left arm goes with which weapon arm and all my laser rifles barrels are bent upwards (a litle hot water and gentle persuasion should do the trick) but they are fabulous value for money (I think my 67 figures worked out at something like £1.12 each) and an exciting addition to miniature wargaming. If I had a quibble it would be that all the kneeling torsos are the same - kneeling on the right leg.
I will do some comparisons against other minis but on first appearances they do seem very similar in size and stature to Forgeworld's Elysian Drop troopers which they remind me strongly of. They will fit extremely well with all my vehicles.
Oh, almost forgot - the metal officer....
Not considering that one arm is obviously attached the wrong way (kneeing person), the shoulders don't work for me. The anatomy and casting quality looks worse than by this ultra cheap Russian mass product shown below, which is not a good sign. But maybe I am alone with this opinion. The metal general looks cool though.
Hmm...that huge russian stuff gives me an idea. I'm not sure I'm willing to build an entire IG army just to screw with people that made "true scale" marines though...
The Mantic stuff is decent enough for the price. Not something I'm interested in, but fine for what it is.
Kroothawk...I think the arm is the right way around, it's just a bit low and disjointed from the blu-tak.
I've owned the Technog russian figs shown above. From what I can see, the corp marines are better made. The shoulders on some do protrude a bit much, but that's a really easy fix with a hobby knife to take a bit of the shoulder or a bit off the arm for a slimmer profile.
There are flaws (ratio of legs to torso isn't perfect, etc), but the anatomy looks alot closer to real proportions than GW stuff. It's nice to see troopers that don't all look like steroidal body builders.
Yeah, because everybody that plays a wargame wants to spend additional hours correcting bent weapons and mismatched joints that wouldn't exist if the company would simply use plastic.... No thanks, I'll pass. Was excited and now I'm not.
I'd rather see them in person than cry DOOM! over the internet. Even if they are bent, you spend 5 seconds over each one with a hairdryer. Lots of times, molded plastic parts that are bent will actually return to straight just by being heated up. If not, you hold them straight and then put them under a steam of cold tap-water and they instantly harden.
It's not exactly the scale of Finecast miscasts. I'll bet that even if they are bent, I can straighten an entire 10-man squad in a little over a minute, tops.
I don't buy finecast for the same reason. I'm a gamer, not a hobbyist. All my minis are built and painted to the best of my ability but I do not have the time or inclination to fix something that shouldn't be a problem if these companies would just perform a little QC.
So you're saying that in all your years of gaming, you never scraped down a mold line, fixed a bent sword or had to fill in a gap on any of the miniatures you've ever bought. Mmm-hmm, yeah not buying it.
If you don't like the figures, don't like them, but don't try to make them out as being unusable because of a tiny bend.
Mantic has sent me some and they are excellent. There is very little flashing, and the 'bend' in the guns is so slight a bit of heat from a hair dryer will set them correct in no time. It's on par with the kind of bend you would get in a regular sprue, so I have no idea why you are so up in arms over this.
Edit: Kroothawk: I think the problem with the shoulders is caused by the fact that the person who assembled them used blu-tack to stick them on. On the ones I have they fit in very nicely and look good on the miniatures. The Ranger models shoulders stick out a little more most likely due to even more blu-tack. I will have to wait to see what those are like, but so far the Marines are very very good.
Fenriswulf wrote:So you're saying that in all your years of gaming, you never scraped down a mold line, fixed a bent sword or had to fill in a gap on any of the miniatures you've ever bought. Mmm-hmm, yeah not buying it.
If you don't like the figures, don't like them, but don't try to make them out as being unusable because of a tiny bend.
Mantic has sent me some and they are excellent. There is very little flashing, and the 'bend' in the guns is so slight a bit of heat from a hair dryer will set them correct in no time. It's on par with the kind of bend you would get in a regular sprue, so I have no idea why you are so up in arms over this.
Because Mantic must be like Mary Poppins - 'Practically perfect in every way'. If they aren't multipart plastic with no flash or mold lines at all, cheaper than GW, more original than GW yet being completely usable in GW games and having universal aesthetic appeal that everyone prefers to a GW sculpt, then they are obviously pap
A) Those models have been assembled with BLU-TACK at the shoulder joints. Of course they look bulky, they haven't been glued together yet, they're just tacked together to show them off quickly.
B) No warped gun-barrels are visible in that unboxing pic (the final product, delivered to a customer).
Seriously, which of these guns are warped? Not seeing any.
It's possible that there may be slight issues with some of them that get shipped, but that's something that comes with the material. Happened with the Revenant Cavalry (on the thin and long lances), and Privateer Press has even bigger warpage problems with their plastic, too.
Both are still nowhere near as bad as finecast, which has both the warping, and a ton of bubbles/ miscasts/ flash/ mould tears etc. to deal with on top of that, for quadruple the price.
Right, I think all in all these look like an excellent product. Will be interesting to see some more detailed pics and reviews though, hopefully those should surface over the next couple of days.
I certainly think it's more than a little unfair to compare them to that Russian product, and I'm frankly amazed that anyone who is obviously so experienced in miniature wargaming as Kroothawk could make such a comparison. If I didn't know him better, and his track-record in this thread, I might think he was deliberately being scurrilous.. hang on.. WAIT JUST A GOD-DAMN MINUTE..
A) Those models have been assembled with BLU-TACK at the shoulder joints. Of course they look bulky, they haven't been glued together yet, they're just tacked together to show them off quickly.
B) No warped gun-barrels are visible in that unboxing pic (the final product, delivered to a customer).
Seriously, which of these guns are warped? Not seeing any.
You are pushing it. Normaly I fully agree with you, but now you are pushing it. The weapons >are< bent. At that resolution it is of course almost impossible to see, as the weapons take 6 or 7 pixels in width, but even then you can see a small bending. The weapons were bent on the first resin picture we saw weeks ago, they are bent on the blog and they are slightly bent on this picture. Don't endanger your credibility!
A) Those models have been assembled with BLU-TACK at the shoulder joints. Of course they look bulky, they haven't been glued together yet, they're just tacked together to show them off quickly.
B) No warped gun-barrels are visible in that unboxing pic (the final product, delivered to a customer).
Seriously, which of these guns are warped? Not seeing any.
You are pushing it. Normaly I fully agree with you, but now you are pushing it. The weapons >are< bent. At that resolution it is of course almost impossible to see, as the weapons take 6 or 7 pixels in width, but even then you can see a small bending. The weapons were bent on the first resin picture we saw weeks ago, they are bent on the blog and they are slightly bent on this picture. Don't endanger your credibility!
Credibility, on the internet? You sir are thinking strange.
Ppl, the thread is deterioring again into discussions beetween fanboys... Or is just looking like that.
Dont feed the kroot... or the squig.
Anyway, the comparation Kroothawk tried to make with those russian toys is just laughably. You are gettint out of arguments mr. chiken lol
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plastictrees wrote:Hmm...that huge russian stuff gives me an idea. I'm not sure I'm willing to build an entire IG army just to screw with people that made "true scale" marines though...
The Mantic stuff is decent enough for the price. Not something I'm interested in, but fine for what it is.
Kroothawk...I think the arm is the right way around, it's just a bit low and disjointed from the blu-tak.
lol, use regular army man. If you search well you will find lots of greatly cast army man around, and they normally are of that side lol
I must admit that while the bent guns is a legitimate issue, comparing them to russian toys is a bit...'out there'
It would probably be more reasonable to compare them to mantic's other plastic-resin (I hate that word) or other models that are made with a similar material
Duncan_Idaho wrote:To be honest:
They might be bent/they might be not bent. At this angle and with the cloth beneath it it really is hard to tell.
So, please put the guns down or some innocent bystander will get hurt...
Well the reviewer himself said they are bent so I'm taking his word for it. But he does not seem to be too bothered about it
Yes, there are mould lines and a little flash here and there and it's not clear which left arm goes with which weapon arm and all my laser rifles barrels are bent upwards (a litle hot water and gentle persuasion should do the trick) but they are fabulous value for money (I think my 67 figures worked out at something like £1.12 each) and an exciting addition to miniature wargaming. If I had a quibble it would be that all the kneeling torsos are the same - kneeling on the right leg.
They're not bad. I don't like the design they went with, blunt monkey faces and builds that are very close to their Orx. A sleeker, pointier space-rat could have been much more interesting. These guys look like thugs.
I was really hoping I could use them as Clan Skryre Skaven, but then Mantic decided to use the old Skaven monkey head designs from the 90s. Well, guess Mantic and I will never get along.
Kroothawk wrote:then Mantic decided to use the old Skaven monkey head designs from the 90s
I totally agree with you.
Again a new disappointment from Mantic. They insist to follow the same path of GW, and make 'toy-soldier' with 20 years old design, instead of go for the 'miniature' path and try quality and more new and original designs.
I was really excited with the first sketches of the corporation troopers, but with the actual 'models', they have burst the balloon... Yes, their products are cheaper, but they are also really poor... There are out there many more companies with cheap and quality stuff that could teach to Mantic one or two things, but anyway...
Kroothawk wrote:then Mantic decided to use the old Skaven monkey head designs from the 90s
I totally agree with you.
Again a new disappointment from Mantic. They insist to follow the same path of GW, and make 'toy-soldier' with 20 years old design, instead of go for the 'miniature' path and try quality and more new and original designs.
I was really excited with the first sketches of the corporation troopers, but with the actual 'models', they have burst the balloon... Yes, their products are cheaper, but they are also really poor... There are out there many more companies with cheap and quality stuff that could teach to Mantic one or two things, but anyway...
I disagree with what you have said in general, but specifically this line.
make 'toy-soldier' with 20 years old design, instead of go for the 'miniature' path
I mean they make miniatures, and when those miniatures are constructed they are toy soldier miniatures. Seems like you are grasping at straws to attack mantic. They make stuff i like, and stuff i dont like, but none of it is objectively offensive as people are trying to portray it.
Fenriswulf wrote:So you're saying that in all your years of gaming, you never scraped down a mold line, fixed a bent sword or had to fill in a gap on any of the miniatures you've ever bought. Mmm-hmm, yeah not buying it.
If you don't like the figures, don't like them, but don't try to make them out as being unusable because of a tiny bend.
Mantic has sent me some and they are excellent. There is very little flashing, and the 'bend' in the guns is so slight a bit of heat from a hair dryer will set them correct in no time. It's on par with the kind of bend you would get in a regular sprue, so I have no idea why you are so up in arms over this.
Edit: Kroothawk: I think the problem with the shoulders is caused by the fact that the person who assembled them used blu-tack to stick them on. On the ones I have they fit in very nicely and look good on the miniatures. The Ranger models shoulders stick out a little more most likely due to even more blu-tack. I will have to wait to see what those are like, but so far the Marines are very very good.
Sometimes, yes, but rarely need to and I buy more than just GW miniatures. I have never experience this sort of shoddy QC with Avatars of War. I don't usually buy resin figs for this reason, I don't like to spend a great deal of time correcting issues. I was hoping they'd be releasing plastic miniatures but I guess they've given up on that so they can make a quick buck instead. That's fine, I'll just stick with their undead range and stay clear of the sci-fi ranges.
GBL wrote:I mean they make miniatures, and when those miniatures are constructed they are toy soldier miniatures. Seems like you are grasping at straws to attack mantic. They make stuff i like, and stuff i dont like, but none of it is objectively offensive as people are trying to portray it.
No, of course is not offensive. I only say that for me, is dissapointing.
I was hoping for Mantic to make affordable, cool and quality models, but when they finally show the actual miniatures, well...
With the 'miniature' vs 'toy soldier' thing, i mean that 'miniatures' are stuff of more quality, and 'toy soldiers', well, are like tokens or little toys for children. Or that's how i see it.
I believe in an adult and valuable hobby, with quality miniatures and things that could be as respectables and 'socially accepted' as other hobbies are. And the 'toy soldier way' doesn't make anything positive for that target...
And please, excuse me if something of my posts sound rude or something, english is not my mother tongue and is a pain to write in it and trying to be understandable
GBL wrote:I mean they make miniatures, and when those miniatures are constructed they are toy soldier miniatures. Seems like you are grasping at straws to attack mantic. They make stuff i like, and stuff i dont like, but none of it is objectively offensive as people are trying to portray it.
No, of course is not offensive. I only say that for me, is dissapointing.
I was hoping for Mantic to make affordable, cool and quality models, but when they finally show the actual miniatures, well...
With the 'miniature' vs 'toy soldier' thing, i mean that 'miniatures' are stuff of more quality, and 'toy soldiers', well, are like tokens or little toys for children. Or that's how i see it.
I believe in an adult and valuable hobby, with quality miniatures and things that could be as respectables and 'socially accepted' as other hobbies are. And the 'toy soldier way' doesn't make anything positive for that target...
And please, excuse me if something of my posts sound rude or something, english is not my mother tongue and is a pain to write in it and trying to be understandable
That makes more sense.
However i find some of their designs to work. For one i really prefer their dwarves to GW's. The style is interesting/different, but anything to get rid of those horrible skirts the GW dwarves wear. The elves seemingly were an experiment in doing something different (elves based more on fairies or something) and that was almost universally panned. Their undead gets a lot of praise and i also like the marauders. The less said about the squats the better, but i am sure they have learned from that mistake looking at corporation.
I do think that the Corporation and even the VeerMyn are definitely a step in the right direction for mantic. Neither force is based on an existing mantic fantasy miniature. While minimising the amount of components they seem to have been sculpted very well (even if not in poses people would like them to be) this seems to be the first line that will mark mantic taking that first tentative step into quality.
And lets face it, Project pandora will sell out like Dwarf Kings Hold.
I won't be buying any Veer-Myn other than the ones in the Project Pandora box.
Just not interested in them, I think they're unsuitable as a sci-fi race without something to make them not literally just "rats in space".
I could have got on board with a race of bestial aliens or something like that, but not straight up space skaven.
Corporation on the other hand...
.. hello, 4 army boxes as soon as my next paycheck comes in. They rock.
No surprise that they're running out of stock either. Mantic just sent out an email stating that starting next Monday, anyone who places a Corp pre-order might not get their stuff on or before the release date of March 26th. Everyone who has pre-ordered already will get their stuff shipped on time, it's just that people who do it next week might have to wait an extra week or so. They've posted a pic of them packing hundreds of Corp army boxes, all of them are pre-orders, so it's likely that they've already sold over 10k - 15k corp models to the public just as pre-orders.
This is of course, great news. If the Corp make them plenty of cash, then they might be able to start going back to releasing proper plastic sprues.
I think they look really cool, although I agree they could do with perhaps a bit more of a 'sci-fi' look to them. As we saw with the Forge Fathers, perhaps that will come later on?
Great little set of models for Project Pandora though, looking forward to it coming out!
Corp make them plenty of cash, then they might be able to start going back to releasing proper plastic sprues.
Why? Plastic Resin is better. Wouldn't have got the Corporation sculpts we did if they'd been on a plastic sprue cuz they can't use Remy. The vermyn too are Remy figures and they wouldn't be as good either. I like this sculpt quality, it's great and if it means getting them in plastic resin, then fine.
I was really hoping I could use them as Clan Skryre Skaven, but then Mantic decided to use the old Skaven monkey head designs from the 90s.
I bet you they didn't. I don't think anyone bothered to look at the Skaven range, all of the models are too big.
Corp make them plenty of cash, then they might be able to start going back to releasing proper plastic sprues.
Why? Plastic Resin is better. Wouldn't have got the Corporation sculpts we did if they'd been on a plastic sprue cuz they can't use Remy. The vermyn too are Remy figures and they wouldn't be as good either. I like this sculpt quality, it's great and if it means getting them in plastic resin, then fine.
I was really hoping I could use them as Clan Skryre Skaven, but then Mantic decided to use the old Skaven monkey head designs from the 90s.
I bet you they didn't. I don't think anyone bothered to look at the Skaven range, all of the models are too big.
Yeah but they're the same price as discounted GW minis now which means I, and many others, won't be buying them. Unfortunately only 40k and WHFB is played in my area to any great extent.
Some pics from there, not really news I know but think they look much better in this colour scheme than the official one:
Finally, a size/proportion comparison between Cadian and Corporation (which I don't think anyone has actually done yet). Discount the rock and they are of similar height, although proportions are quite different. I do think they would probably sit better alongside FW Elysian or other FWIG.
I really do like the proportions of them compared to GW. Very nicely sculpted I have to say. The Ranger basic weapons are definitely growing on me as well, compared to the Marine ones.
GW meltaguns look ridiculous on the Corp models, better to use the meltaguns you get in the box rather than trying to kludge one of GW's telegraph pole guns on to the models.
I don't know why it continues to surprise me, but man GW's 'heroic scale' sculpting is ridiculous looking!
It isn't bad within the range as a whole, but when you see them next to 'more realistically proportioned' miniatures that are allegedly in the same scale... wow!
Quite a lot of scale pics in that as well as a component list.
The scale looks pretty good next to the forgefathers:
Unfortunately, they've also assembled the rangers arms incorrectly with the shoulder coming out of the chest. Everyone keeps doing this, those shoulder pads are supposed to be much higher, and the shoulder pads are not part of the upper arm.
My only issue with them is the legs. I know they're going for realistic proportions, but they look like a bunch of girlymen in tight jeans with those legs. I'm not talking Cadian style tree trunk legs, but something in the middle.
I don't know why it continues to surprise me, but man GW's 'heroic scale' sculpting is ridiculous looking!
It isn't bad within the range as a whole, but when you see them next to 'more realistically proportioned' miniatures that are allegedly in the same scale... wow!
I guess I'm not seeing any "more realistically proportioned" miniatures in that picture. Differently unrealistically proportioned, sure, but I don't really buy the Corporations emaciated shock troopers waddling towards me like they've peed their pants.
-Loki- wrote:My only issue with them is the legs. I know they're going for realistic proportions, but they look like a bunch of girlymen in tight jeans with those legs. I'm not talking Cadian style tree trunk legs, but something in the middle.
I'm sorry in advance, but you are absolutely right, and their leggins remind me of this picture:
-Loki- wrote:My only issue with them is the legs. I know they're going for realistic proportions, but they look like a bunch of girlymen in tight jeans with those legs. I'm not talking Cadian style tree trunk legs, but something in the middle.
I'm sorry in advance, but you are absolutely right, and their leggins remind me of this picture:
Call me crazy but I loved the old 5th edition monkey-faced cartoony Skaven, so I friggin' love these Veermyn. I will be buying them by the truckload. I *might* even play 40K again, if I can't get people interested in Warpath, and use them as... I don't know. Orks or something.
Granted, I'd buy them anyway if they were more similar to the current, less-cartoony Skaven.
I love the 4/5E WFB Skaven as well. I think these Veermyn look great.
As for the Corporation, I just got a package of some 15mm sci-fi infantry from Khurasan and they have crisper detail than the Mantic 28mm ones. Maybe it's the paint schemes people are using, but the Corporation models look like the detail has been smooshed out. The Marauders didn't have that problem and neither do any of the fantasy races.
Perhaps its the sculpts? Or the resin plastic? Or maybe it just is the paint jobs we've seen so far.
frozenwastes wrote:
As for the Corporation, I just got a package of some 15mm sci-fi infantry from Khurasan and they have crisper detail than the Mantic 28mm ones. Maybe it's the paint schemes people are using, but the Corporation models look like the detail has been smooshed out. The Marauders didn't have that problem and neither do any of the fantasy races.
Perhaps its the sculpts? Or the resin plastic? Or maybe it just is the paint jobs we've seen so far.
While I do not think the quality is too bad, I somewhat agree that the detail isnt all that great on these guys to justify the price (in comparison to mantics other ranges and other companies). I mean look at the comparison with the forge father, not too much of a difference if you ask me. I'll agree with what someone said earlier that Mantic should focus a bit more on getting normal plastic kits out. Sure for "elite units" like cavalry its fine but when you have to pay 10-30% extra with no real additional benefits, it's a bit annoying
Blah blah blah, plastic injection molds are expensive, blah lecture in the near future
I am currently looking at a Mantic Marine right now in front of me. There are very few mold lines and the detail is as crisp or crisper than the plastic kits they sell.
If anything is not showing the detail correctly it is the paint schemes and painting quality of the units that have been demonstrated thus far.
I don't see the troops as looking all that emaciated actually. Ever seen the SAS troops from Australia or the UK? They aren't huge roided out slabs of beef - They go for wiry tough guys of average height or so that have endurance out the ying-yang. There is plenty enough beefcake style IG out there to use, I am glad for an alternative.
Whoa, after buying a zombie regiment from Mantic with my miniwargaming gift certificate, I was compelled to read all of this thread.
And it is very long. Damn.
Anyway, thoughts: I'm not starting an IG army anytime soon, but those Corp models would make fine Inquisitorial Henchmen. And is it only me, but I do like how the Orcs/Orx look, even the faces. Never really liked GW orcs face-wise since they have the look that you can't take seriously (although I do appreciate that they bring comedy to an otherwise grimdark setting).
Something OT:
Spoiler:
For those who said that Mantic shouldn't have advertised themselves as such.... welcome to advertising. I've worked in an ad agency and advertising yourself as "no, we're not that good, really" is just helping your competition. You can't sell a product if you sound like you don't believe in the product.
Same reason why GW marketed Finecast as such. IT DOESN'T EXCUSE A FAULTY AND CRAPPY PRODUCT. But they would have fewer sales if they got all honest and said to their market's face something like "Oh, Finecast will contain a lot of bubbles, miscast and flash, is not really that different from metal when painted and you would feel like doing the miniature version of Russian Roulette when opening a box". Product quality is very important, yes. But if you're advertising for a crappy product, you would do better to advertise it as a not-crappy product (or at least don't mention the crappiness of it and harp the good parts) rather than, well, being honest.
The blog mentions the birthday of the owner/director(?) of Mantic, and they were selling random collections of minis for either KoW or Warpath at a reduced price.
The sale was meant to end last night (Thursday), but it looks like it is still up for the time being so perhaps they are letting it run for a little longer.
They are usually very generous with giving extra stuff with these kinds of deals (every order I have made from Mantic has had some kind of extra sprue or something in side) so I think definitely worth checking out if you wanted to see the Mantic minis for yourself before choosing whether to make a larger investment.
I'm posting this in behalf of Christian who did our review;
I'm sorry, but this is simply wrong. The models come with a ball joint to connect the arms with the body and it locks them in this very position. If I wanted to attach them at a higher point, I would have to remove the joints on all bodies first and I think it's very unlikely that Mantic really wanted the customers to do that...
In addition: All official pictures from Mantic Games show the exact same pose that we used in our review, so we definitely built them 100% correct.
Do you guys think that the guys from Mantic are reading this thread?
If so: Mantic, there is a severe lack of plastic female military/soldier figures and if you produce these they will sell like pancakes, or one gallon of Devlan Mud. The rebel line could have such models, since I think lots of the rebels wouldn't wear uniform anyway so the figures can look more feminine. And I think that line can make a fine balance between feminine AND realistic and not sexist, just like Zoey in Firefly:
Doesn't have to be an all female army, but gender diversity in the ranks would be wonderful. And again, it's something a lot of hobbyist would buy and that GW does not fill that part of a hobbyist's heart.
I don't know why it continues to surprise me, but man GW's 'heroic scale' sculpting is ridiculous looking!
It isn't bad within the range as a whole, but when you see them next to 'more realistically proportioned' miniatures that are allegedly in the same scale... wow!
I guess I'm not seeing any "more realistically proportioned" miniatures in that picture. Differently unrealistically proportioned, sure, but I don't really buy the Corporations emaciated shock troopers waddling towards me like they've peed their pants.
The Mantic guys do seem to have equally...off...proportions. Many of the arms seem too long and thin. The poses...many of them look strange. Overall I dont like the minis much at all.
Personally, I want to see some close-ups of the Veer-men. If they were AREN'T the monkey-faced 90's skaven but in space, I may use htem for my planned traitor guard...
heartserenade wrote:Do you guys think that the guys from Mantic are reading this thread?
I'm not sure about here, but there is a guy from Mantic who regularly posts on Warseer (they have a dedicated Mantic section, so correspondingly it is a lot more active).
Also, on the Mantic forums there are a couple of staff. Lots of 'what would you guys like to see next' kinds of posts, I think it's great to have that level of customer interaction.
Unfortunately, no one around here seems interested in playing Warpath, though some people I know really like the models (one guy is even gonna buy a bunch of Corporation use to as IG). Since I must have these Veer-myn, and I hate buying models I'll never use in a game, I'm trying to decide what to do with them.
Orks? IG? It looks like, with minimal conversion, there's a Veermyn unit that could be used to represent every unit from the Ork Codex except Killa Kanz, buggies, Deffkoptas, and grotz. Gougers and Nytemares=Nobz, Stalkers=Kommandos and Slugga Boyz, Stormboyz or Bikers with some conversion, Nightcrawlers=Shoota Boyz and with some conversion they could be Flash Gitz or Lootaz, Tunnler=Trukk, Driller-Crawler=Battlewagon, heavily converted Terror=Deffdred... Hmm... Hmm, indeed. I could always find other companies' models to fill in the empty spots, or even kitbash some other Mantic kits.
heartserenade wrote:Do you guys think that the guys from Mantic are reading this thread?
If so: Mantic, there is a severe lack of plastic female military/soldier figures and if you produce these they will sell like pancakes, or one gallon of Devlan Mud. The rebel line could have such models, since I think lots of the rebels wouldn't wear uniform anyway so the figures can look more feminine. And I think that line can make a fine balance between feminine AND realistic and not sexist, just like Zoey in Firefly:
Doesn't have to be an all female army, but gender diversity in the ranks would be wonderful. And again, it's something a lot of hobbyist would buy and that GW does not fill that part of a hobbyist's heart.
Heh, good luck. I was arguing the same thing for quite a while, but gave up after it became clear they don't give a damn. You might want to have a look at Defiance Games instead - they're months behind schedule, but at least we know they want to make plastic female USMC instead of just another sausagefest.
@Ratbot: The Tunneler and Driller-Crawler cannot be represented by the models you suggest. The Tunneler has no carrying capacity and no weapon except for its ram, and the Driller-Crawler is immobile. For the latter, I'd actually suggest building a big, orky drop pod.
heartserenade wrote:Do you guys think that the guys from Mantic are reading this thread?
If so: Mantic, there is a severe lack of plastic female military/soldier figures and if you produce these they will sell like pancakes, or one gallon of Devlan Mud. The rebel line could have such models, since I think lots of the rebels wouldn't wear uniform anyway so the figures can look more feminine. And I think that line can make a fine balance between feminine AND realistic and not sexist, just like Zoey in Firefly:
Doesn't have to be an all female army, but gender diversity in the ranks would be wonderful. And again, it's something a lot of hobbyist would buy and that GW does not fill that part of a hobbyist's heart.
Heh, good luck. I was arguing the same thing for quite a while, but gave up after it became clear they don't give a damn.
Alex, please correct me if I'm wrong, didn't they specifically change a rule in one of the games because you (and perhaps someone else?) suggested it ?
Pacific wrote:Alex, please correct me if I'm wrong, didn't they specifically change a rule in one of the games because you (and perhaps someone else?) suggested it ?
So they took advantage of one of my bug reports during their public beta, whoop-de-fething-do. How is that relevant to my statement that despite my efforts to drum up support for new and interesting plastic kits, Mantic has expressed no interest in stepping out of GW's rut and providing plastic support for the neglected half of the population?
Looks like a promising little turret design (of what little I can see), I hope its for some sort of tank or APC and not that horribly generic humvee they previewed ages ago.
I don't know why it continues to surprise me, but man GW's 'heroic scale' sculpting is ridiculous looking!
It isn't bad within the range as a whole, but when you see them next to 'more realistically proportioned' miniatures that are allegedly in the same scale... wow!
Welcome to my world,
and to make it worse, im not a GW fan, so every flaw sticks out like a sore thumb
Some_Call_Me_Tim? wrote:I wish Mantic had gone for something a little more original than "Veer-Myn". They seem to be just Skaven in space.
Still, they should be a way to provide cheap Skaven for Fantasy players, so all is not lost.
_Tim?
Hush, you. They already took away my hrud and gave us those...things in Xenology, so something that's cheaper and easier to convert than Clanrats for my traitor guard force I'm planning would be welcome...
Will nobody post the images of the space ska... i mean, the veermyn?
Well, i'll do it, hoping there is not anything wrong... From the veermyn dossier that Mantic sent. Pics are terribles... People of Mantic should start think on buy a new camera, or try to learn to use the one they have...
Some_Call_Me_Tim? wrote:I wish Mantic had gone for something a little more original than "Veer-Myn". They seem to be just Skaven in space.
Given that they launched their sci-fi range with space dwarves, I don't think originality is what they are aiming for so much as filling some of those gaps that some gamers have been asking for for years.
I'd be all over these, if they didn't look so awkward. As is, though, it appears to be yet another range from Mantic that just doesn't quite hit the mark. These and the Corporation minis have some excellent design work, and I really want to like the models, but the awkward posing really kills it for me.
Well those veer'myn look better than the first previews, still ugly as sin faces... and not in the good way either. The face on the thrid guy at least looks a little better, I like oversized drill thingy as well.
I wonder how those drills swords are meant to work and why do space rats living in starships carry so much mining equipmeant and have steampunk clothes?
insaniak wrote:
I'd be all over these, if they didn't look so awkward. As is, though, it appears to be yet another range from Mantic that just doesn't quite hit the mark. These and the Corporation minis have some excellent design work, and I really want to like the models, but the awkward posing really kills it for me.
Seconded. At first, I thought it was simply the lack of heroic scale (Or at least he exaggeration of GW heroic scale) that was throwing me--but I cannot get behind the Corporation miniatures--the bowed legs, shoulder/arms--just looks off.
Hoarmurel wrote: Will nobody post the images of the space ska... i mean, the veermyn?
Maybe no Mantic fan wanted to admit that these stained blurry pics with pen markings in cheap paper terrain are Mantic's idea of professional marketing
They need some professional painters to paint their stuff, and a professional photographer to take the best pictures of it as possible.
The same thing happened with their Kings of War line, making it hard to actually see what you were buying because of the distance and style of the shot. This is the same.
Not so much a fan of the underslung drill on the arm, but that's just a personal preference.
I think the painting is fine (minus small mistakes, like giving the Corporation turn-ups), but I agree the photography could do with a bit of help.
I think a lot of people really like that they show what is coming prior to release, and it's great to be able to plan purchases ahead, and of course really exciting to see the new minis. But, I think it still needs some fine tuning.
But if you want to introduce a new race with a box set in Space Corridors, why base the miniatures with gravel and grass?
I am starting to believe that Mantic has a secret death wish, because everytime they have to make a decision, they don't take the no-brainer obvious one but the WTF one.
Kroothawk wrote:I am starting to believe that Mantic has a secret death wish, because everytime they have to make a decision, they don't take the no-brainer obvious one but the WTF one.
Glad to know I'm not alone thinking that. Little did I know that the Space Dwarves would actually be the high point of the Warpath range. Everything they've released since their lovely plastic skeletons has been another step down the spiral.
I think the common consensus is the Corporation (I think released today or tomorrow?) are probably the best so far, at least for the Warpath range? Certainly they dump on the GW Cadians from quite a height, and they are a fraction of the cost.
Give them time, they are only a small company with less than a dozen employees. You can't expect every release to be perfect yet. The important thing is that they are encouraging feedback from customers, and have actively made changes or brought in new models at the request of fans (the upgrade kits for Forge Fathers for instance).
Kroothawk wrote:But if you want to introduce a new race with a box set in Space Corridors, why base the miniatures with gravel and grass?
I am starting to believe that Mantic has a secret death wish, because everytime they have to make a decision, they don't take the no-brainer obvious one but the WTF one.
Well everyone complains that they try to copy GW...
I like the corp figs so far, but I think I like the vets better than the regular guys. I'm planning to diversify my guard army a lot more and add in some of them along with some of the defiance marines
Thus far I don't see any of their steps as being down the spiral. If anything, the Orx, Forgefathers and now Corporation are moving in a very good direction. Veer-myn aren't my cup of tea, but those who want them will sure be glad to own them.
I am in the process of ordering in Corporation stock for my store. I may well be out of luck, as they might have run out. If that is the sign of a business spiralling down the drain, we should all be so lucky.
Again, as a poster put it a few pages back, some of you won't be happy unless the product Mantic sells is 100% original, yet can easily identified and used in a competitors setting, using much better materials but at a mere fraction of the cost of GW, and be made to your exact desires and wishes.
Just be glad GW has some robust competition starting from alternate suppliers. Maybe it will force them to look at their mutant proportioned miniatures and poor casting practices for Finecast, and make changes. Without these smaller suppliers coming online to challenge them, what possible reason would GW have to change their business practices?
Fenriswulf wrote:Again, as a poster put it a few pages back, some of you won't be happy unless the product Mantic sells is 100% original, yet can easily identified and used in a competitors setting, using much better materials but at a mere fraction of the cost of GW, and be made to your exact desires and wishes.
And others are happy, when Mantic takes fantasy miniature designs from the 90s, adds a bionic eye and a gun, paints them badly, takes a blurry photo, paints a big black spot on the photo ("Photoshop? What is Photoshop?") and presents it as the biggest competition to GW's 40k products.
Kroothawk I believe you were one of the loudest critics when the Warpath range was first revealed. And to be fair, I think a lot of people (including myself) agreed with you to an extent - they didn't look firmly enough in the region of sci-fi with sandals and swords (or is that swords and sandals? ). But, they have taken that criticism on board and released some upgrade packs for the FF - enclosed helms and different armour, so there is far less relation now between the Forge Fathers and KoW dwarf models.
But, I think they were a new company then starting out, and no doubt resources were stretched (perhaps too far with Warpath). But, at least as the FF have shown Mantic are continuing to try and push things in the right direction. I think it's unrealistic to expect them to do any more at this stage. With the Veer-myn looking less distinctly sci-fi, considering there are no KoW skaven-ish models one has to assume that they are concious design direction. While they won't be everyone's cup of tea, personally I think they look OK.
And now they will be used in the Project Pandora game as well, which I'm sure will be most people's experience of them. That game, it it's anything like Dwarf King's Hold, will offer a great little game for a cheap price. Again it is something that you can't get if you stick exclusively with GW, unless you want either Dreadfleet or to line the pockets of the ebay sharks offering Space Hulk for £100 or more.
Just be glad GW has some robust competition starting from alternate suppliers. Maybe it will force them to look at their mutant proportioned miniatures and poor casting practices for Finecast, and make changes. Without these smaller suppliers coming online to challenge them, what possible reason would GW have to change their business practices?
I agree with this wholeheartedly. A monopoly isn't good for the consumer regardless of the industry involved. Hopefully the end result from this 5-6 years down the line is that we will have another couple of wargame and miniature companies who can stand up alongside GW. It can only be good for the wargaming hobby as a whole.
Kroothawk wrote:But if you want to introduce a new race with a box set in Space Corridors, why base the miniatures with gravel and grass?
I am starting to believe that Mantic has a secret death wish, because everytime they have to make a decision, they don't take the no-brainer obvious one but the WTF one.
It took years for GW to realize that with an infinite universe in which to play, set on Cathedral worlds, Industrial Worlds, in Ash Wastes or on Demon Worlds of liquefied corpsefields and crystalline towers, that 'Goblin green and sand" was pretty damn tedious, unimaginative and soulless, and they actually tried to force players to use it. If that didn't kill them, it shouldn't make much difference to Mantic. Its purely an aesthetic choice, and I have a feeling they are trying to cultivate the 'Bunch of like-minded hobbyists' feel, rather than the 'Infallible Mega-Corp' feeling GW has going for it. Is it concidence that they named their borderline-fascist neo-colonialist 'human' race 'Corporation'? I think not.
I think that the basing and painting has been outsourced here, hence why it doesn't 'fit'.
Some of the minis in Mantic's range may well be back to the 1990s in standard, but I don't really mind that as long as we go back to the 1990s in price too! Frankly, the Dwarf King's Hold minis are at least on a par with the ones in 1st Edition Space Hulk -- I'd say the Mantic stuff is better, in fact -- and at a £35 price point today, compared to £25 or so for the GW boxed games of 20 years ago, still seems very reasonable.
There's a bunch of Veer-Myn concept art up on Beast of War's site, not sure if I should re-post it here since its listed as "exclusive", I'll be happy to post it if its OK with everyone else
and the Mods. The concepts look pretty cool and defiantly show off the finer details of the Veer-myn's design, much better than the preview pictures we've seen so far.
Here is a lowdown on what managed to get from the video:
1) - He mentions some un-previewed models, monstrous mutant rat-men (think rat-ogres) and subterranean vehicles.
2) - There will be two main unit boxes coming out, Crawlers and Nightmares. Not a 100% sure of the amount of guys in each, I think he said 10 for hoard units and 5 for elite units,
but don't hold me to that. Not sure if these are going to be plastic or resin either.
3) - Stalkers and Gougers will be coming out after the first two sets, no real details.
4) - Nightspawn might be coming out around the same time, is going to be a Hero/HQ unit.
5) - There will be metal upgrade packs like the forge fathers. Interestingly he mentioned that these will be aesthetic parts, but later mention that these will
unit upgrade packs? Mantic could be planning to do what PP having be doing with their Warjacks and produce cheap standardized units that can upgraded into
more rarer units via metal add-ons/replacement parts.
6) - Also they do a turn-around display of some of the Veer-Myn models at the end of the video. The models look pretty good, much better than Mantics crappy preview pictures
have shown so far. On a personal note I must say this actually gets me interested in Project Pandora and the Veer-Myn army again (I may need to do some converting mind you).
7) - Warpath 2.0 will be landing later this year and by the sound of it all four current armies will get a bunch of new stuff.
I'm hopeful for more Mantic plastic models.
All the resin stuff has expanded their range, but at expense of their stated goal of cheap minis.
Especially Corporation and maybe FF and Orx re-sculpts.
Their decision to go resin with so many of the recent kits seems to have more to do with production and time than desire.
Warlord just pushed out a huge line of British and Zulus, and Perry Miniatures have expanded their Napoleonics.
If Renedra isn't expanding, somebody is getting pushed to the back, and it seems to be Mantic.
All the hate for the Veer-Myn makes me laugh a bit.
Ever since 3rd ed, and that hrud picture, there's been a constant stream of "GW should totally do Space Skaven".
A company steps up and does them, and its "That's boring and unoriginal".
I like that Mantic sees the design space that GW has left, and are trying to fill it.
There is a demand there for Chaos Dwarves, Space Ratmen, Space Dwarves, and cheap plastic alternatives for fantasy staples.
Didn't GW start out as an alternative producer of minis for D&D?
skrulnik wrote:I'm hopeful for more Mantic plastic models.
All the resin stuff has expanded their range, but at expense of their stated goal of cheap minis.
Especially Corporation and maybe FF and Orx re-sculpts.
Their decision to go resin with so many of the recent kits seems to have more to do with production and time than desire.
Warlord just pushed out a huge line of British and Zulus, and Perry Miniatures have expanded their Napoleonics.
If Renedra isn't expanding, somebody is getting pushed to the back, and it seems to be Mantic.
QFT. If you're not the big dog at least realize it and charge little dog prices. Their prices have made me decide to wait and see what Defiance comes up with since they're doing plastic only. Why pay mantic prices for resin when I can just pay a dollar or two more for GW? AoBR Ork Boyz run about $15-$20 on Ebay but mantic is charging $20 for 10.... yeah, I'll pass.
I've been contemplating a vampire count army and will be using Mantic's undead line for a good part of the army if I decide to go that route but I'm completely not interested in resin, restic or whatever other label people want to put on it.
I don't know why it continues to surprise me, but man GW's 'heroic scale' sculpting is ridiculous looking!
It isn't bad within the range as a whole, but when you see them next to 'more realistically proportioned' miniatures that are allegedly in the same scale... wow!
Welcome to my world, and to make it worse, im not a GW fan, so every flaw sticks out like a sore thumb
I held them in my hands today and they are lovely little models. I really don't think any of the shots on Mantic's website, or the previews on blogs for that matter, have really done them justice.
They should really do the '360 degree' shot for them as they did for the Veer-myn.
Anyway, the army box for £38 from Totalwargamer.co.uk , an absolute bargain. I'm going to pick up some more of them despite not long finishing another IG army, they are that good!
Pacific wrote:I held them in my hands today and they are lovely little models. I really don't think any of the shots on Mantic's website, or the previews on blogs for that matter, have really done them justice.
They should really do the '360 degree' shot for them as they did for the Veer-myn.
Anyway, the army box for £38 from Totalwargamer.co.uk , an absolute bargain. I'm going to pick up some more of them despite not long finishing another IG army, they are that good!
I would love to see some shots of these dudes next to some 40k dudes
I am thinking of getting a few to use as my inquisitors body guard and space station security (doing a campaign that will start with a zone of mortallis game)
I got my birthday box today, and I was pretty happy with what I got.
-10 Skeletons
-10 Elves
- 4 Dwarves (I think some are cannon crew)
- 3 Orcs
- 1 Dwarven Cannon
- 1 Skull Catapult with crew
- 1 Elven Bolt Thrower with crew
And on the Warpath end:
-11 Marauder Grunts
-8 Forge Father Steel Warriors
-5 of the restic dwarves with heavy weapons (which I wasn't expecting, and are really rather nice!)
-1 Marauder speeder thingy.
And 2 clippers!
A decent amount of stuff for the price!
Edit: The only disappointing thing is that the set arrived without any bases!
Heh! It wasn't my birthday, but Ronnies. they did a deal where you could order a random selection of miniatures for a reduced price to celebrate his birthday, so I went for two boxes.
Da Boss wrote:Heh! It wasn't my birthday, but Ronnies. they did a deal where you could order a random selection of miniatures for a reduced price to celebrate his birthday, so I went for two boxes.
Ah I see, my mistake. Sounds like a pretty cool deal though a nice way to view a seletion of thier core products for cheap, shame I missed that would've picked up some Warpath stuff.
Hopfully we'll see some nice Corporation VS Veer-myn boxed deals when they release, even though I don't like the idea of space rat-orges, might build a custom "Scrap Rat-Mecha" to replace those.
- KoW hardback will have 8 armies. Rules for siege, magic items, and running tournaments as well as a fleshed-out background section with lots of artwork.
- "7 of the 8 armies will be out by the time the rulebook hits".
- 3 new armies coming in an expansion in 2014, rather than rushing to get them into the hardback.
- Plastic werewolves are being sculpted.
- Plastic Trolls (coming end of the year, base, bestial sculpts), and "probably ogres".
- New £30 warhost-style starter sets coming, with rules, dice, to give people a lower entry point to the game.
- Orcs and Goblins Vs. Undead confirmed for new KoW starter set.
- Wound counters etc. in the starter set.
- KoW rules planned to stay fixed for 5 years, but with regular updates to the downloadable army lists for new units etc.
- Big abyssal dwarf release - Halfbreeds in restic, slave driver for the slave orcs, Mortar.
- 3 "giant wights" as the new undead unit.
Next 5 years are likely to be "2 months of board games, 10 months of cranking out unit after unit after unit", with the rules being fixed in place.
If anyone here has a backstage pass for BoW, there is a backstage pass video where it looks like Ronnie talks about the new goblin releases coming soon:
Okay, current word on the backstage pass video on BoW is that it states that the next KoW army will be Angels, Paladins, good humans, that sort of thing.
No other info, so again, if anyone can give more info on that, it would be great.
Kepora wrote:Oooh, I wonder how big the Werewolves will be?
Big. Current KoW rules have them on 40mm bases, same as the recently-released forge world ones.
.....krootie.... There is nothing to bite.
The picture is supposed to show that is what special OP helmet looks like ( broad, large, none angular forhead piece )
Elysian have it, Gundam have it, Patlabor have it, and mantic special OP has it.
scarletsquig wrote:Okay, current word on the backstage pass video on BoW is that it states that the next KoW army will be Angels, Paladins, good humans, that sort of thing.
No other info, so again, if anyone can give more info on that, it would be great.
Wait, seriously? If true, and if it means female angels and/or paladins in plastic, I take back most of the bad things I've said about Mantic.
LunaHound wrote:If they make it resin, please make it Elite type of army ( Angels and Paladin sounds elite enough yay )
But for any horde unit in the future please make it plastic or dont bother >.<
For the last time, the goblins were metal because Mantic is getting tired of people telling them that their models look terrible *after* they've already spent massive amounts on tooling plastic moulds. :p
Doing them in metal first costs them only a tiny amount in terms of paying the sculptor and tooling the mould, and gives them the advantage of customer feedback on the sculpts before going ahead with plastic.
Basically, metal models = beta-testing for the plastics.
As for details on what plastic kits will be released for goblins, details are probably in that BoW backstage video that no-one can view!
LunaHound wrote:If they make it resin, please make it Elite type of army ( Angels and Paladin sounds elite enough yay )
But for any horde unit in the future please make it plastic or dont bother >.<
For the last time, the goblins were metal because Mantic is getting tired of people telling them that their models look terrible *after* they've already spent massive amounts on tooling plastic moulds. :p
Doing them in metal first costs them only a tiny amount in terms of paying the sculptor and tooling the mould, and gives them the advantage of customer feedback on the sculpts before going ahead with plastic.
Basically, metal models = beta-testing for the plastics.
As for details on what plastic kits will be released for goblins, details are probably in that BoW backstage video that no-one can view!
For the last time, the goblins were metal because Mantic is getting tired of people telling them that their models look terrible *after* they've already spent massive amounts on tooling plastic moulds. :p
For the last time, the goblins were metal because Mantic is getting tired of people telling them that their models look terrible *after* they've already spent massive amounts on tooling plastic moulds. :p
But isn't that what 3D CAD are for?
Any previews, really. Whether it's concept art, greens, renders or metals, the way to avoid this problem is to allow people to find out what the plastics will look like and say what they think could be done better before the point of no return, before you start cutting the moulds.
Basically, metal models = beta-testing for the plastics.
Thats what they said about their Undead Knights, but then they went with the plastic resin. Goblins might be another faction getting shoved into the plastic resin
Well, I'm sure any reduction of price will always be welcome. Those goblin spearmen (speargoblins? ) are actually lovely little models.
Glad they put that 360 degree shot of the Veer-myn on their blog, they obviously heard some of the comments about how much better the minis look on there!
Basically, metal models = beta-testing for the plastics.
Thats what they said about their Undead Knights, but then they went with the plastic resin. Goblins might be another faction getting shoved into the plastic resin
The undead knights (revenant knights) are an elite choice for the undead army. So restic makes sense. Metal goblins as beta testing for plastics, when spear goblins are a core unit in a horde army, are different from this, but also make sense.
scarletsquig wrote:Okay, current word on the backstage pass video on BoW is that it states that the next KoW army will be Angels, Paladins, good humans, that sort of thing.
It's clearly impossible for Mantic to do anything original, so what army is that supposed to represent? Bretonnia?
scarletsquig wrote:Okay, current word on the backstage pass video on BoW is that it states that the next KoW army will be Angels, Paladins, good humans, that sort of thing.
It's clearly impossible for Mantic to do anything original, so what army is that supposed to represent? Bretonnia?
Don't worry I think Scarletsquig is being deliberately scurrilous
Those Perry 'War of the Roses' plastics are excellent by the way, would definitely be my first port of call if I was making an Empire or Brettonian army.
ArbeitsSchu wrote:No, the Perrys did a line of historical miniatures from the period that GW ripped off to do Empire...
As did FireForge.
Same difference. The important thing is that Mantic shouldn't make their historical race a pseduo-historical faction. We've got historicals manufacturers for that.
ArbeitsSchu wrote:How about a 28mm Plastic Arabian/Saracen race? They're quite rare.
That depends, what would the core rank and file be like? The reason something like the Bretonnians, Empire or Ex Illis would be bad is because the units that actually get plastic kits would be the boring historical units. Create a faction around more fantastic units instead - like female paladins and angels instead of French jerks and inbred serfs - and you've got something that won't be undermined the moment FireForge gets onto the other half of their Crusades line.
Has anyone done any equivalency studies of these sorts of things? For example, is it possible to create an entire Empire army using Perry miniatures plastics or do you have to mix and match? How do the prices stack up if you compare the cost of a GW Empire army to one made from 3rd party manufacturers? I'd be interested in it if the price is right (and the counts-as doesn't bother me; my other WHFB armies are Mantic ones).
One of the good things about the Mantic lines and army deals is the fact you can make an equivalent GW army out of them - the Mantic units are direct counterparts to their GW version (obviously what Mantic intended) but it means you can pay £150 for one of their army mega deals and have a 2000-2500 point army straight out the box.
You could make nearly an entire army from Perry miniatures for Empire out of the two plastic boxes they offer now (Crossbowmen, Handgunners and Pikemen in one, Bows and Halberds in another), and the new Cavalry box they'll be releasing soon.
This only leaves swordsmen and flagellants as your infantry not covered. Swordsmen are easy to do, all you need to use is handweapons and shields on their pikemen. Flagellants might not be so easy.
Artillery can be covered by their miniatures, or lines from other manufacturers. Same for heroes. The only thing which really represents a problem is the Demigryphs and War Altar/Arcane chariot. If you can find a solution to that, you're set.
Buying from other manufacturers is a good idea because often their prices are better, the miniatures are often better scaled and look better, and are the same or better quality than the GW ones. For example, I believe on the Perry site that one 40 infantry box is about $30 odd dollars or so, more or less. Let's see you find a similar price from GW for infantry which is only one type instead of allowing you to make multiple kinds.
Also, buying from other manufacturers supports them and allows them to keep developing and coming up with new plastic kits, and puts pressure on GW to either re-do their kits or lower their prices.
So, in all cases I recommend not buying GW where you can, and supporting alternative manufacturers. Here in Australia we get the short end of the stick on prices, so I have no qualms about giving it right back to them. If you like the miniatures other companies make, buy them. Don't feel you're stuck with one particular manufacturer at all.
ArbeitsSchu wrote:How about a 28mm Plastic Arabian/Saracen race? They're quite rare.
That depends, what would the core rank and file be like? The reason something like the Bretonnians, Empire or Ex Illis would be bad is because the units that actually get plastic kits would be the boring historical units. Create a faction around more fantastic units instead - like female paladins and angels instead of French jerks and inbred serfs - and you've got something that won't be undermined the moment FireForge gets onto the other half of their Crusades line.
But they will engage the ire of all the people who expect everything Mantic does to be usable in a GW game, whilst not being a copy of anything GW does, if they do something that original.
The Corp Rangers look good in the 360 view, shows off their details a lot better. Still need leg and knee armour, just saying.
Would love to see more Project Pandora/Veer-Myn stuff, still on the fence as wherever to buy the game or not as I still know very little about them.
I mean going by the Mantic blog aren't we on the third Project Pandora/Veer-myn teaser week now? and we still don't have much information
about the game or the Veer-Myn army as whole and both are right on top of their release dates, not the best way to drum-up excitement.
Hell it even took Beast of War getting involved to actually see a decent picture of the miniatures, isn't that what Mantics surposed to be doing
right now all over thier blog/Site, like crazy?
Sorry I'm most likely just impatient, but these teaser weeks really haven't been that impressive so far. Mantic really should just try showing the product
in its full glory rather than showing poor quality scrapes and expecting us to pro-order entire armies.
ArbeitsSchu wrote:How about a 28mm Plastic Arabian/Saracen race? They're quite rare.
That depends, what would the core rank and file be like? The reason something like the Bretonnians, Empire or Ex Illis would be bad is because the units that actually get plastic kits would be the boring historical units. Create a faction around more fantastic units instead - like female paladins and angels instead of French jerks and inbred serfs - and you've got something that won't be undermined the moment FireForge gets onto the other half of their Crusades line.
But they will engage the ire of all the people who expect everything Mantic does to be usable in a GW game, whilst not being a copy of anything GW does, if they do something that original.
Which is why they wont go too out there. Trust me I would love to see some Middle East factions in plastic but no one really touches them besides some persians. I doubt Mantic will ever go outside their comfort zone, and if they do it'll probably end up being a faction made out of plastic resin/metal
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Rolt wrote:
Sorry I'm most likely just impatient, but these teaser weeks really haven't been that impressive so far. Mantic really should just try showing the product
in its full glory rather than showing poor quality scrapes and expecting us to pro-order entire armies.
Miniature companies can be really funny. Most dont hire half decent painters or even show their products painted. Some dont even show their product at all (Cough Old Glory cough)
filbert wrote:Has anyone done any equivalency studies of these sorts of things? For example, is it possible to create an entire Empire army using Perry miniatures plastics or do you have to mix and match? How do the prices stack up if you compare the cost of a GW Empire army to one made from 3rd party manufacturers? I'd be interested in it if the price is right (and the counts-as doesn't bother me; my other WHFB armies are Mantic ones).
One of the good things about the Mantic lines and army deals is the fact you can make an equivalent GW army out of them - the Mantic units are direct counterparts to their GW version (obviously what Mantic intended) but it means you can pay £150 for one of their army mega deals and have a 2000-2500 point army straight out the box.
Perry Miniatures: £0.45/model for infantry.
GW: £1.55/model
And yes, you can make most of an army out of them. Also, mantic bases are perfect fits for perry models! Nothing wrong with using a few GW kits here and there, their large plastic monsters and things are very nice models and reasonably priced due to being the only ones on the market that are plastic.
Take the new Empire griffon for example - £33, gigantic model. I have no issues with buying one of those to tower over my Perry infantry. Same goes for the steam tank, the new buffwagons, demigryphs and plastic characters.. they're all "one off" units as opposed to the hundreds of state troops that make up the bulk of the expense for any new army. And I happen to be someone who wants a very very large army indeed (1000+ models) where it would cost me as much as a car to buy the army from GW.
I mean seriously, who here has paid GW £100 to buy a single horde of Empire Greatswords? Be honest now. One 8th-edition competitive unit. One hundred pounds.
I'm about as big a fan of Mantic as you can get, but even I don't see it is "one company or another" thing. I have no idea why people are so bloody tribal on the topic of wargames manufacturers and assume that anyone who likes Mantics models is some sort of frothing anti-GW nutter who stands outside their stores all day screaming obscenities.
Anyway, this is conversation is all off-topic and should be moved to the mantic discussion thread.
kenshin620 wrote:
Miniature companies can be really funny. Most dont hire half decent painters or even show their products painted. Some dont even show their product at all (Cough Old Glory cough)
Oh yeah trust me I 100% agree with you on that one, if I was to try and count the amount of miniature companies that have terrible camera angles, bad-quality shots, or no pics at all on my hands
alone, let's just say I'd run out of fingers, toes, pennies, counters and any other form of numical visual aid very quickly.
It just when it comes to Mantic this lack of quality product advertisement just makes less sense to me. When it comes to a lot of smaller companies I kind of accept that their 1-2 man deals with small
budgets and a very limited range of miniatures and many of those miniatures are "not-something's" or generic "x-theme", so you kind of know what you're getting and there's not much in the way of
long-term investment in to their product to worry about either. But when it comes to Mantic it seems like their trying to set themselves up as the next "big game" with tons of large scale armies, vehicles, rulebooks and an ever-growing universe that will continue to evolve over many years to come with new products and expansions and god knows what else, not to mention the sheer cost of all the plastics their doing is pretty risky.
Now don't get me wrong I do understand Mantics still pretty small themselves, but you'd think they would set-up the presentation of their stuff a bit better considering the sheer cost of producing all this on their side and the potential long term investment they will need from fans to keep them going, it just seems reckless to show these products so poorly.
AlexHolker wrote:That depends, what would the core rank and file be like? The reason something like the Bretonnians, Empire or Ex Illis would be bad is because the units that actually get plastic kits would be the boring historical units. Create a faction around more fantastic units instead - like female paladins and angels instead of French jerks and inbred serfs - and you've got something that won't be undermined the moment FireForge gets onto the other half of their Crusades line.
But they will engage the ire of all the people who expect everything Mantic does to be usable in a GW game, whilst not being a copy of anything GW does, if they do something that original.
"All the people"? You mean me? If anyone else has been making the specific argument that Mantic should start looking at races and units that can be adequately represented by the same rules but fulfil different aesthetic or thematic roles, I haven't seen them.
I think plastic angels would be extremely popular, if only as a source of cheap, human-sized feathered wings for conversions. If they're armoured, I could see them being used for a lot of SoB Seraphim conversions. In WHFB, they might see use as Pegasus Knights and pegasus-mounted characters.
AlexHolker wrote:
I think plastic angels would be extremely popular, if only as a source of cheap, human-sized feathered wings for conversions. If they're armoured, I could see them being used for a lot of SoB Seraphim conversions. In WHFB, they might see use as Pegasus Knights and pegasus-mounted characters.
Hmm that is the problem though. It boils down to "I think _____ would be extremely popular". Internet speak is...internet speak. People can say "I would love X" but in reality, would people actually buy it? Even internet polls and a faux pre order system might not guarantee anything. And what if the end product isnt what people wanted? (wgf greatcoats) Money and Time can be very unforgiving in miniature making
I certainly didnt see everyone clamoring for Ex Illis' Plastic Angels....(true though I suppose they are somewhat expensive)
AlexHolker wrote:That depends, what would the core rank and file be like? The reason something like the Bretonnians, Empire or Ex Illis would be bad is because the units that actually get plastic kits would be the boring historical units. Create a faction around more fantastic units instead - like female paladins and angels instead of French jerks and inbred serfs - and you've got something that won't be undermined the moment FireForge gets onto the other half of their Crusades line.
But they will engage the ire of all the people who expect everything Mantic does to be usable in a GW game, whilst not being a copy of anything GW does, if they do something that original.
"All the people"? You mean me? If anyone else has been making the specific argument that Mantic should start looking at races and units that can be adequately represented by the same rules but fulfil different aesthetic or thematic roles, I haven't seen them. .
Its a 67 page thread. Some bugger said it, I'm not going back in to look who. I'm 33. How much longer have I got?
kenshin620 wrote:Hmm that is the problem though. It boils down to "I think _____ would be extremely popular". Internet speak is...internet speak. People can say "I would love X" but in reality, would people actually buy it? Even internet polls and a faux pre order system might not guarantee anything. And what if the end product isnt what people wanted? (wgf greatcoats) Money and Time can be very unforgiving in miniature making
What's the alternative? Unless you're making the exact same models that people have already had ample opportunity to buy from other companies, this is an unavoidable problem. At least my suggestion means making models that add something new to the market yet are more aesthetically compatible with existing armies than, for example, Mantic elves next to GW elves.
I certainly didnt see everyone clamoring for Ex Illis' Plastic Angels....(true though I suppose they are somewhat expensive)
Yeah, somewhat. 18 pounds for 6 isn't any cheaper than buying Scourges from GW at 15 pounds for 5.
AlexHolker wrote:
I think plastic angels would be extremely popular, if only as a source of cheap, human-sized feathered wings for conversions. If they're armoured, I could see them being used for a lot of SoB Seraphim conversions. In WHFB, they might see use as Pegasus Knights and pegasus-mounted characters.
Hmm that is the problem though. It boils down to "I think _____ would be extremely popular". Internet speak is...internet speak. People can say "I would love X" but in reality, would people actually buy it? Even internet polls and a faux pre order system might not guarantee anything. And what if the end product isnt what people wanted? (wgf greatcoats) Money and Time can be very unforgiving in miniature making
I certainly didnt see everyone clamoring for Ex Illis' Plastic Angels....(true though I suppose they are somewhat expensive)
...
It should also be pointed out that Mantic has a lot more market awareness then Ex Illis does/did (at least, that's my impression, given that I never heard of them till they were out of business).
By the by, does anyone have a suggestion for a "see X page for Y!" for the thread title? I don't really see an obvious page to point people too, but maybe I haven't been paying enough attention.
I've been jazzed about the Corporation miniatures since the first rumours popped up. I was thinking of getting into some harder sci-fi gaming and was excited at the prospect of some plastic 28mm troopers at a good price.
Well, I decided to go with 15mm miniatures (the same scale as Flames of War) as I've been disappointed with pretty much all the 28mm releases over the last while.
Not sure this has been posted yet? There is a Mantic Open Day in Swindon on May 5th, featuring a gaming tournament, a chance to meet the developers (and for Kroothawk to take his Kroot rifle along to I'm guessing?), as well as get a peek at forthcoming releases. Tickets are £4.99, available from here: http://www.manticgames.com/Shop-Home/Shows-and-Events/Product/May-2012-Open-Day-Single.html
And the blurb from the website:
Mantic Open Days are action packed, fun filled events dedicated to the hobby. Excitingly, the first Open Day of the year is being held on Saturday 5th May at Mongoose Publishing and tickets are now available!
The Open Day is a fantastic opportunity to meet, great and talk to you about all things Mantic, whilst showing off what we’ve been doing - and what we’ve got coming!
This will be the fourth Open Day we’ve held, with each being bigger and better than the last. There’s so much stuff going on in fact, we've created this page on the website to tell you all about it - needless to say, there's lots of cool sneak peaks, free goodies, games, demos, miniatures and more!
For full details including travel and accommodation please check out our Events page here. Please have a read and forward this email to your friends and gaming clubs!
scarletsquig wrote:Okay, current word on the backstage pass video on BoW is that it states that the next KoW army will be Angels, Paladins, good humans, that sort of thing.
It's clearly impossible for Mantic to do anything original, so what army is that supposed to represent? Bretonnia?
show me a GW army that is original . please?
actually make it 2 , why not :')
Skaven? Appearance, theme and style are as far as I am aware pure GW creation and pretty much the same as they appeared oh so long ago
Wow, 10 figures with 9 of them having basically the exact same pose. The detail looks good but only supplying one body? Really??
I immediately saw at least 3 different poses, but I guess you see what you want to see
I watched again. Your right, there are 3 bodies. They are just so similar I didn't notice the first time. One pose they merely turned the right leg outward a bit, which actually seems kind of awkward. And the third pose they just put the left leg forward and right leg back.
So 3 bodies so similar it took a close second look to notice. Still not a fan.
scarletsquig wrote:Okay, current word on the backstage pass video on BoW is that it states that the next KoW army will be Angels, Paladins, good humans, that sort of thing.
It's clearly impossible for Mantic to do anything original, so what army is that supposed to represent? Bretonnia?
show me a GW army that is original . please?
actually make it 2 , why not :')
Skaven? Appearance, theme and style are as far as I am aware pure GW creation and pretty much the same as they appeared oh so long ago
Ratmen are not original. Kobolds in DnD, Nezumi in M:tG Kamigawa arc, Master Splinter?
I think they look good, and I would be very happy to use them as stormtroopers or veterans if I were a guard player. At a stretch, you could probably use them as space marine scouts.
Does anybody know how much they retail for? If it was mentioned earlier or in the video, then I apologise as I skipped ahead
scarletsquig wrote:Okay, current word on the backstage pass video on BoW is that it states that the next KoW army will be Angels, Paladins, good humans, that sort of thing.
It's clearly impossible for Mantic to do anything original, so what army is that supposed to represent? Bretonnia?
show me a GW army that is original . please?
actually make it 2 , why not :')
Skaven? Appearance, theme and style are as far as I am aware pure GW creation and pretty much the same as they appeared oh so long ago
Ratmen are not original. Kobolds in DnD, Nezumi in M:tG Kamigawa arc, Master Splinter?
Skaevn predate Magics Nezumi by a long way - I have the old journals from the 80's where they appeared.
I did not know Kobolds were ratmen - but even given that - they IMO made a very distinctive and characterful race from the very start.
That being said - like the look of the Mantic Space Skaven -
Skaven are one of the only creations from GW that I really like. While rat men and wererats are not a new idea, GW's skaven seem to be mostly original* and are awesome.
Which means I think Mantic's rats in space are awesome as well. Definitely rat men in space with some skaven inspiration, but still all awesome.
* I don't think much in the world is truly original. It's usually a combination of previous ideas into new forms. So I don't really care how original something is as long as it's not so unoriginal that it is redundant or boring.
06 April 2012 15:19
It’s a double Bank Holiday here in the UK and as is tradition, we’ve gone a bit mad with our offers…
Free Veer-myn Figure in every order over £15
After Beasts of War’s epic 360 degree angle video of the new Night-Crawlers (did we all see Ronnie and Jake on Turn 8 as well?), we’re giving away a free Veer-myn Figure in every order over £15 made this weekend.
Order before 11:59pm Monday 9th April to get your free Veer-myn Night-Crawler.
Those paintschemes go a long way to helping distinguish them to be Sci-Fi figures and not just fantasy with goggles, but skaven have always been a bit steampunkish.
Okay, I apologize if this has been discussed already as I haven't followed this thread as closely as I should have, but what's the difference between the Corporation Marines and the Corporation Veterans?
Corporation Marines:
Corporation Veterans:
Correct me if I'm wrong, but from the pic, the figures look the same, but it's just that they have different weapons and the Vet box comes with a Heavy Weapon team. Is that correct? Or are there other differences I'm not seeing?
skrulnik wrote:Veterans get multiple special weapons instead of a heavy, other than that...
Is it the Rangers that have the Grav chutes and different rifles and helmets?
I didn't see pics of the grav chutes on the website, although it said that they come with them. They definitely have different rifles and helmets.
What with all the hubbub over Defiance's marines looking more or less like the concept art (depending on your opinion), it's got me looking at the Mantic Corporation marines again and realizing that they could be very viable and reasonably priced Elysians with some easy weapon swaps.
kenshin620 wrote:Whats with the outstretched arms on those Verr myn? Are they suppose to be dancing or what?
They're making themselves look bigger. That's why they're a terrifying galactic threat and not just those idiot pig-baboon men that keep attacking us with hand drills.
kenshin620 wrote:Whats with the outstretched arms on those Verr myn? Are they suppose to be dancing or what?
They're making themselves look bigger. That's why they're a terrifying galactic threat and not just those idiot pig-baboon men that keep attacking us with hand drills.
lol
The poses are a little odd and repetitive. That can work for regimented troopers, but some of the skaven models show the most amazing poses based upon the concept of extreme flexibility and nimbleness, these guys are kinda doing a tightrope act and are trying to keep their balance.
Looks like 80% of the vermins have the same body, just with one armour plate added to the right leg. And the zombie pose with the "eek what's that in my left hand" pose doesn't look remotely realistic. Another WTF moment.
Kroothawk wrote:Looks like 80% of the vermins have the same body, just with one armour plate added to the right leg. And the zombie pose with the "eek what's that in my left hand" pose doesn't look remotely realistic. Another WTF moment.
Agreed. I looked at those models and went:
"Eeeeeeeewww."
They look like pigs, not rats. And there is no pose variation. And the fact that they're also just plain ugly (Not Cool ugly, but sculpted wrong somehow Ugly).
I agree with the above few posts, these latest photos do absolutely nothing for me. The outstretched arm position just makes them look weird, and im not a fan of the handheld drill melee weapon at all.
I wonder how long its gonna be before Kings of war gets a Veermyn faction, I'm assuming that's why Mantic kept the designs of the Veermyn so primitive in the first place.
nkelsch wrote:Those paintschemes go a long way to helping distinguish them to be Sci-Fi figures and not just fantasy with goggles, but skaven have always been a bit steampunkish.
You know i think the great problem on those guys is that: skaven as steam punk rat-man... That almost made them sci-fi warerats with the right color scheme...
Im excited about those Veer-myn, a lot, and Im really liking them ^^
Kroot... you know this guys actually have a flamer-like weapon under their arms, and that is whye they are on that "strange nonsensical pose", in reality, that pose make a lot of sense, they are shooting the flamer thing, and preparing to puncture the enemy with the drill thingy melee weapon when he got near... But i agree there is a lack o pose variability, and the sculpts aparently are not so good as the other figures alredy show...
kenshin620 wrote:Whats with the outstretched arms on those Verr myn? Are they suppose to be dancing or what?
They're making themselves look bigger. That's why they're a terrifying galactic threat and not just those idiot pig-baboon men that keep attacking us with hand drills.
lol
The poses are a little odd and repetitive. That can work for regimented troopers, but some of the skaven models show the most amazing poses based upon the concept of extreme flexibility and nimbleness, these guys are kinda doing a tightrope act and are trying to keep their balance.
That tightrope between idiotic and ugly must be pretty hard to walk then.
I have yet to see anything worth buying from these guys. Cheap isn't a positive adjective.
On a positive note I figured out why I cannot watch more than 30 seconds of a Beasts of War video now. They don't seem to give a gak about what they're doing. They go through the effort to make a video with a fair amount of production value but can't bring themselves to research a little about what they're showing? "these are the heads...here are some weapons" ::throws piles of bits around:: it's like the don't even realize the whole point is to show us the damned minis!
I received my 2 Corporation Army boxes and other figures today. I have to say, I'm a little disappointed. They are tiny. Like, even smaller than I expected after seeing the pictures.
92 quid not all that well spent, as I can't see myself getting them cleaned, assembled or painted anytime soon. or less soon.
To be fair, I think you need to explain why they look smaller. It's not height (in fact, I think they are slightly taller than Cadians) but rather the proportions. They don't have the giant hands and head of the Cadians, or heroic scale as it's often called, which is why proportionately they look smaller.
I think they are lovely little minis, aside from the proportion they are more detailed sculpts than Cadians also. if you weren't the opposite side of the world to me Scipio.Au I might have asked you to sell them on to me? (although your avatar makes me worry about any telephone-based transaction! )
Giant mutant ratmen in a fantasy setting where the scale is much smaller and the technology much lower and factions much less prone to nuking it from orbit is completely different to mutant rats on space ships. There's no way that is a credible threat for any organised sci fi force. Compare Veer Myn to Tyranids.
Pacific wrote:To be fair, I think you need to explain why they look smaller. It's not height (in fact, I think they are slightly taller than Cadians) but rather the proportions. They don't have the giant hands and head of the Cadians, or heroic scale as it's often called, which is why proportionately they look smaller.
I think they are lovely little minis, aside from the proportion they are more detailed sculpts than Cadians also. if you weren't the opposite side of the world to me Scipio.Au I might have asked you to sell them on to me? (although your avatar makes me worry about any telephone-based transaction! )
It's both height and proportion - I don't mind properly-proportioned minis at all, but these are also extra-small. They're the same size as, say, Red Box miniatures, or the earlier LotR figures, or my Eureka 28mm moderns. - which is fine for all of those lines (I use Red Box with my LotR figures) but they come across as small for 40k proxies (which is what they are - let's face it!). The Heavy Weapon platforms are also much smaller in-hand than they appear to be in pictures on the internets. The sculpts don't seem too bad, though it's hard to see with them unprimed/unpainted.
If I were playing some kind of hard sci-fi game, they'd be just fine, for 40k, I think they would work as proxies if you had an entire IG army made of them, but they won't work well mixed in with GW's figures.
As for the Veer'Myn - silly name, bad models, concept is fine, IMO. Then again, I haven't liked the GW Skaven line as a whole since Jes did all the models. Since then they've been very hit-or-miss. I'm just judging the Mantic ones to the same standard as I do GW ones. Like most contemporary GW Skaven, these Veer'Myn fall short.
But yeah, the name "Veer'Myn" is as ****-stupid as "Mon'Keigh". Ha. Ha. I wonder if Gav Thorpe came up with their name as well?
I'm wondering if some people don't actually understand the nature of rats enough? They breed like... rats..they outnumber people by a ridiculous number. They carry diseases. They get everywhere. They nearly have thumbs.
These ones also understand firearms and 'future-tech' and are big enough to eat you. And they HAVE thumbs.
ArbeitsSchu wrote:I'm wondering if some people don't actually understand the nature of rats enough? They breed like... rats..they outnumber people by a ridiculous number. They carry diseases. They get everywhere. They nearly have thumbs.
These ones also understand firearms and 'future-tech' and are big enough to eat you. And they HAVE thumbs.
I think it is you who doesn't understand the nature of rats. A big rat just can't do the same things a small rat can. A Veermyn is less capable of escaping detection, less capable of replenishing its numbers, and will trigger more vigorous extermination attempts.
Like zombies, they're not a credible threat. Unless the author blatantly cheats in their favour it's only a matter of time until the whole race is driven to extinction.
Quick question on the Veer'Myn (Whoever came up with the name deserves a slap on the back of the head).
What the hell role are they supposed to fill? They don't work for counts as for any GW product (Let's face it. No-one plays these models for the actual game.) and just seem off. How does a rat get to space? What do they eat? Why drills for weapons? Why doesn't the Corporation just leave out jumbo-sized mousetraps? Why don't they just go in and kill them all?
I think my main question can be summed up in one sentence: Why do these exist!?!?
It looks like they went for the thousands of year old ships theory for Project Pandora. In the depths of these ships, rats have evolved, possibly involving some poorly disposed of mutagen. Then, they taught themselves Karate, and chose the drill because of how easy it is to use to make extra tunnels in ships. Also, probably because it is really hard to make a menacing cutting torch or arc welder without special effects.
I'm not sold on the logic of it all, but I do think these would make a great lost and the damned army- toss in some CSM leaders and you've got a great rebelling population of abhuman mine workers.
Chowderhead wrote:Quick question on the Veer'Myn (Whoever came up with the name deserves a slap on the back of the head).
What the hell role are they supposed to fill? They don't work for counts as for any GW product (Let's face it. No-one plays these models for the actual game.) and just seem off. How does a rat get to space? What do they eat? Why drills for weapons? Why doesn't the Corporation just leave out jumbo-sized mousetraps? Why don't they just go in and kill them all?
I think my main question can be summed up in one sentence: Why do these exist!?!?
In answer to your main question - nobody knows, although the reality of the matter is probably "Ronnie and Alessio thought it'd be cool".
Nothing more.
There are companies out there making teddy bears with guns and mutant zebras and entire ranges of evil snowmen with AK-47's.. there are hundreds of examples of utter lunacy out there, which is great. Those small companies don't draw any criticism for their product, but Mantic does because it has 6-12 full time employees instead of 1-2?
They're not something I'm interested in buying either, although on the other hand I see no reason to be bothered by them.
Mantic is just adding one to the pile and having some fun for a bit rather than just cranking out GW clones.. something which it draws a lot of criticism for on this forum.
Of course, with the Veer-Myn they're weird enough to call of being useless for GW games, but the style is similar enough to GW to wheel out the standard complaints about them copying GW, so it's a double-loss as far as the internet complaints go.
I agree that the background is pretty ridiculous. In answer to your questions though... they sneak on board docked ships or in cargo, they eat "Verminium" (no, I'm not being facetious, that is the actual background!), no idea why they use drills, don't mention "giant mousetraps" please, you'll start giving mantic ideas for the pandora expansion, and they don't kill them all because they're too hidden in cavernous ships that were built millennia ago and poorly designed.
ArbeitsSchu wrote:I'm wondering if some people don't actually understand the nature of rats enough? They breed like... rats..they outnumber people by a ridiculous number. They carry diseases. They get everywhere. They nearly have thumbs.
These ones also understand firearms and 'future-tech' and are big enough to eat you. And they HAVE thumbs.
I think it is you who doesn't understand the nature of rats. A big rat just can't do the same things a small rat can. A Veermyn is less capable of escaping detection, less capable of replenishing its numbers, and will trigger more vigorous extermination attempts.
Like zombies, they're not a credible threat. Unless the author blatantly cheats in their favour it's only a matter of time until the whole race is driven to extinction.
Because no person-sized threat ever managed to successfully hide from the authorities or endanger people now, even under threat of extermination? There are no tunnel or cave systems in existence today containing people who successfully avoid the authorities? No credible threats from guerillas that happen to be the same size as person-sized rats? All people-sized threats are easily destroyed now?
Have I missed the article where Mantic explained that giant space rats breed less than regular ones? No, so where do you get the idea that they are 'less capable of replenishing their numbers'? Rats breed, and eat, and that's about it. Why would giant rats not do much the same?
I'm intrigued as to why you think zombies are not a 'credible threat' either (other than being fictional of course.)
ArbeitsSchu wrote:Because no person-sized threat ever managed to successfully hide from the authorities or endanger people now, even under threat of extermination? There are no tunnel or cave systems in existence today containing people who successfully avoid the authorities? No credible threats from guerillas that happen to be the same size as person-sized rats? All people-sized threats are easily destroyed now?
As well as lacking the strengths of a rat, Veermyn also lack the strengths of human guerrillas. A human guerrilla can pretend to be someone we don't want to exterminate wholesale, a five foot tall rat cannot. A human guerrilla has allies within the populace we don't want to exterminate wholesale, a five foot tall rat does not.
Have I missed the article where Mantic explained that giant space rats breed less than regular ones? No, so where do you get the idea that they are 'less capable of replenishing their numbers'? Rats breed, and eat, and that's about it. Why would giant rats not do much the same?
Because a giant rat would need to eat more and would take longer to reach maturity. A giant, intelligent rat would take longer still. And these rats clearly don't just breed and eat, or they wouldn't have guns and drills.
I'm intrigued as to why you think zombies are not a 'credible threat' either (other than being fictional of course.)
A zombie is just a slow, stupid human that can only reproduce by winning a fight against something faster, smarter and more heavily armed than it.
Don't see what the problem is. Think the Nightmares are gorgeous actually. Armour looks sharp, one arm's blasting with the wrist mounted flame thrower which is pretty cool and the drill is used against walls and armour, or for tanks. Not as fussed on the Night-Crawlers, but I think the Nightmares are just ace. particularly if they were led with the night spawn that got leaked on BOLS:
Black Nexus wrote:Don't see what the problem is. Think the Nightmares are gorgeous actually. Armour looks sharp, one arm's blasting with the wrist mounted flame thrower which is pretty cool and the drill is used against walls and armour, or for tanks. Not as fussed on the Night-Crawlers, but I think the Nightmares are just ace. particularly if they were led with the night spawn that got leaked on BOLS:
I think the monopose really threw me off. If they sculpted the other larger rats with the same level of detail and personality as this guy, they would be a really cool looking model!
Automatically Appended Next Post:
scarletsquig wrote:
Chowderhead wrote:Quick question on the Veer'Myn (Whoever came up with the name deserves a slap on the back of the head).
What the hell role are they supposed to fill? They don't work for counts as for any GW product (Let's face it. No-one plays these models for the actual game.) and just seem off. How does a rat get to space? What do they eat? Why drills for weapons? Why doesn't the Corporation just leave out jumbo-sized mousetraps? Why don't they just go in and kill them all?
I think my main question can be summed up in one sentence: Why do these exist!?!?
In answer to your main question - nobody knows, although the reality of the matter is probably "Ronnie and Alessio thought it'd be cool".
Nothing more.
There are companies out there making teddy bears with guns and mutant zebras and entire ranges of evil snowmen with AK-47's.. there are hundreds of examples of utter lunacy out there, which is great. Those small companies don't draw any criticism for their product, but Mantic does because it has 6-12 full time employees instead of 1-2?
They're not something I'm interested in buying either, although on the other hand I see no reason to be bothered by them.
Mantic is just adding one to the pile and having some fun for a bit rather than just cranking out GW clones.. something which it draws a lot of criticism for on this forum.
Of course, with the Veer-Myn they're weird enough to call of being useless for GW games, but the style is similar enough to GW to wheel out the standard complaints about them copying GW, so it's a double-loss as far as the internet complaints go.
I agree that the background is pretty ridiculous. In answer to your questions though... they sneak on board docked ships or in cargo, they eat "Verminium" (no, I'm not being facetious, that is the actual background!), no idea why they use drills, don't mention "giant mousetraps" please, you'll start giving mantic ideas for the pandora expansion, and they don't kill them all because they're too hidden in cavernous ships that were built millennia ago and poorly designed.
Your points are all valid, besides for the thing with the employees.
Mantic started, and still is, an alternate model company to GW. The vast majority of the people who buy their stuff don't use it for KoW or for the Sci Fi game (I'm drawing a blank), methinks. So, if they start making sub-par looking models that don't fit with any other GW Army, people get very confused and thrown off. I think that's where the backlash is coming from.
Also, the people like the Teddy Bears with Guns because they are sculpted well, and don't come from a range that was made to be a knock off.
Don't get me wrong, the rest of the Veer'Myn look pretty decent, borderline good. However, the models I commented on look like really bad Monopose Termies that were discontinued a while ago.
Also, Verminium? Jesus Christ. Why not just call it "Cheeseium", and have it be yellow and grow from milk spills.
I feel like this is one of the situations where fluff does impact the appeal of the models. All it takes is a good coherent fluff to make the silly into awesome.
What if Veer-Myn were rat-sized but just sentient/intelligent? Stories happen where large monsters raid human civilizations, but there is no boarding ship, no breach of security, no attack party. They literally 'show up, steal what they want, kill people and go away?'
They are a race which has no homeworld to bomb, no spaceships to blow up, no base to target. But they are always around. The truth is they are so intertwined to human civilization and hiding in plain sight as a regular rat is indistinguishable.
They learn by watching us. When we train, we train them. When we make leaps in technology, it is delivered to them on a silver platter. When we have plans to destroy them, they know it before we do. They reproduce amazingly fast being small and need minimal food to survive. One Human's rations can feed them for a month.
People report strangess. They notice rats which seem to be working with purpose, they see the human-sized rats. We can’t prevent them or catch them, just cover them up. Anyone who publically claims the rats are working against us are removed. It is nothing more than a conspiracy.
Something has changed. Being small and intelligent has been a nuisance at worst, but now there are reports they are human-sized. If given access to nuclear material, they seem to be able to use it to leverage technology to grow 20 times their size in short bursts to wreak massive destruction and retreat into obscurity under our own noses able to hide in plain sight with their less evolved cousins.
Pacific wrote:To be fair, I think you need to explain why they look smaller. It's not height (in fact, I think they are slightly taller than Cadians) but rather the proportions. They don't have the giant hands and head of the Cadians, or heroic scale as it's often called, which is why proportionately they look smaller.
I think they are lovely little minis, aside from the proportion they are more detailed sculpts than Cadians also. if you weren't the opposite side of the world to me Scipio.Au I might have asked you to sell them on to me? (although your avatar makes me worry about any telephone-based transaction! )
It's both height and proportion - I don't mind properly-proportioned minis at all, but these are also extra-small. They're the same size as, say, Red Box miniatures, or the earlier LotR figures, or my Eureka 28mm moderns. - which is fine for all of those lines (I use Red Box with my LotR figures) but they come across as small for 40k proxies (which is what they are - let's face it!). The Heavy Weapon platforms are also much smaller in-hand than they appear to be in pictures on the internets. The sculpts don't seem too bad, though it's hard to see with them unprimed/unpainted.
If I were playing some kind of hard sci-fi game, they'd be just fine, for 40k, I think they would work as proxies if you had an entire IG army made of them, but they won't work well mixed in with GW's figures.
scipio - how do they compare to say, FW's DKOK or Elysians?
scipio.au wrote:But yeah, the name "Veer'Myn" is as ****-stupid as "Mon'Keigh". Ha. Ha. I wonder if Gav Thorpe came up with their name as well?
Chowderhead wrote:Quick question on the Veer'Myn (Whoever came up with the name deserves a slap on the back of the head).
Actually, the answer is even more depressing: The name was "invented" by the first group of GW drop-outs in the 90s, who formed Harlequin/Black Tree Design and made the Skaven copy army VerMen: http://www.blacktreedesign.com/northamerica/home.php?cat=2343 . Yes, it's that bad. Always think of the least creative answer first and you are probably spot on.
Chowderhead wrote:What the hell role are they supposed to fill? They don't work for counts as for any GW product (Let's face it. No-one plays these models for the actual game.) and just seem off. How does a rat get to space? What do they eat? Why drills for weapons? Why doesn't the Corporation just leave out jumbo-sized mousetraps? Why don't they just go in and kill them all?
I think my main question can be summed up in one sentence: Why do these exist!?!?
1.) Mantic did it because like most of their projects, Space Skaven were rejected/stopped GW projects of the 90s (like Squats and Chaos Dwarfs).
2.) Steampunk Ratmen have a huge potential, with lots of Skaven players (Skryre!) willing to buy some if decently made. Just imagine for a moment the cashflow, if Avatars of War released a plastic box of them! It takes a lot to botch this market, but Mantic succeeded by taking the monkey head sculpts of the 90 and posing them as stumbling zombies, blindly pointing one weapon to the right and holding the cc weapon as far from the body to the left, as if someone in their back said "Hands up! And slowly drop your weapons!" Fighting with weapons looks different.
Medium of Death wrote:Did anyone else just hear that? I think it was GW's collective sigh of relief.
I hear it every time Mantic shows their new actual models (other than their undead range).
nkelsch wrote:I feel like this is one of the situations where fluff does impact the appeal of the models. All it takes is a good coherent fluff to make the silly into awesome.
Intelligent rats that hate you are a perfectly decent concept for a Monster Manual entry. Not so much as a side in a sci-fi wargame.
Something has changed. Being small and intelligent has been a nuisance at worst, but now there are reports they are human-sized. If given access to nuclear material, they seem to be able to use it to leverage technology to grow 20 times their size in short bursts to wreak massive destruction and retreat into obscurity under our own noses able to hide in plain sight with their less evolved cousins.
...no, that's still awful. Sorry. I think intelligent rats that just invented Pym particles are even more ridiculous than the background they've already got.
nkelsch wrote:I feel like this is one of the situations where fluff does impact the appeal of the models. All it takes is a good coherent fluff to make the silly into awesome.
Intelligent rats that hate you are a perfectly decent concept for a Monster Manual entry. Not so much as a side in a sci-fi wargame.
Something has changed. Being small and intelligent has been a nuisance at worst, but now there are reports they are human-sized. If given access to nuclear material, they seem to be able to use it to leverage technology to grow 20 times their size in short bursts to wreak massive destruction and retreat into obscurity under our own noses able to hide in plain sight with their less evolved cousins.
...no, that's still awful. Sorry. I think intelligent rats that just invented Pym particles are even more ridiculous than the background they've already got.
Space rats are terrible no matter how you slice it, but the problem with space warfare is things get solved pretty easy with an orbital bombardment. They made the most drastic, ominous and dangerous foe of their entire universe a terribly implausible threat.
Fantasy gets mostly a pass because of magic and suspension of disbelief. Not sure Sci-Fi universes get the same freedom. People like their Sci-fi to make sense.
If people liked the fluff, bad models would get a pass. If the fluff is terrible, people won't even buy good models.
nkelsch wrote:Fantasy gets mostly a pass because of magic and suspension of disbelief. Not sure Sci-Fi universes get the same freedom. People like their Sci-fi to make sense.
For both sci-fi and fantasy you can get away with a lot more if you look good doing it. Suspension of disbelief only works if the audience wants to believe. That, as much as anything, is the problem with the Veermyn: a parasitic civilisation of evolved rats just aren't awesome enough for me to want to look past the flaws.
If people liked the fluff, bad models would get a pass. If the fluff is terrible, people won't even buy good models.
YMMV, but I disagree with this point. If I wanted to rewrite bad fluff to go with good models, all I'd need is a quill and a pot of ink. If I want to remake bad plastic models to go with good fluff, a lot more infrastructure and capital is required.
ArbeitsSchu wrote:Because no person-sized threat ever managed to successfully hide from the authorities or endanger people now, even under threat of extermination? There are no tunnel or cave systems in existence today containing people who successfully avoid the authorities? No credible threats from guerillas that happen to be the same size as person-sized rats? All people-sized threats are easily destroyed now?
As well as lacking the strengths of a rat, Veermyn also lack the strengths of human guerrillas. A human guerrilla can pretend to be someone we don't want to exterminate wholesale, a five foot tall rat cannot. A human guerrilla has allies within the populace we don't want to exterminate wholesale, a five foot tall rat does not.
Neither does a 5 foot ork, or whatever. At the most extreme "OMG this is stupid guize" this is no sillier than anything that has ever been made for 40k.
AlexHolker wrote:
Have I missed the article where Mantic explained that giant space rats breed less than regular ones? No, so where do you get the idea that they are 'less capable of replenishing their numbers'? Rats breed, and eat, and that's about it. Why would giant rats not do much the same?
Because a giant rat would need to eat more and would take longer to reach maturity. A giant, intelligent rat would take longer still. And these rats clearly don't just breed and eat, or they wouldn't have guns and drills.
Again orks. I have never heard anyone complain about space orks and their fungal origins. In the same vein i dont see how using the same rules-breaking that created space orks, these space rats couldnt exist in the bowels of a giant ancient super ship. These points are stupider than arguing who shot who in cops and robbers. If warpath is an equally stupid 40k style universe, then anything goes. Otherwise we are going to have to apply these same rules to 40k.
scipio.au wrote:
It's both height and proportion - I don't mind properly-proportioned minis at all, but these are also extra-small. They're the same size as, say, Red Box miniatures, or the earlier LotR figures, or my Eureka 28mm moderns.
I think they would work as proxies if you had an entire IG army made of them, but they won't work well mixed in with GW's figures.
scipio - how do they compare to say, FW's DKOK or Elysians?
Unfortunately, I own no Forgeworld IG, so I can't give a comparison.
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Kroothawk wrote:
scipio.au wrote:But yeah, the name "Veer'Myn" is as ****-stupid as "Mon'Keigh". Ha. Ha. I wonder if Gav Thorpe came up with their name as well?
Chowderhead wrote:Quick question on the Veer'Myn (Whoever came up with the name deserves a slap on the back of the head).
Actually, the answer is even more depressing: The name was "invented" by the first group of GW drop-outs in the 90s, who formed Harlequin/Black Tree Design and made the Skaven copy army VerMen: http://www.blacktreedesign.com/northamerica/home.php?cat=2343 . Yes, it's that bad. Always think of the least creative answer first and you are probably spot on.
You know what? I can actually forgive the name as something created by Harlequin in the 90's while doing a direct Skaven knockoff. You know why? There was no pretense there that those figures were anything but GW proxies. Given that Mantic is actually doing something a bit new with their space skaven - it's not the height of creativity, but it's really no worse than the original concepts for Eldar or Squats conceptually - but they're going through the motions of creating their own game, with its own branding and so forth, but it's such a weak, pathetic name. They may as well have just called them "Vermin" and told us that it's just the other races' name for them. (much like the Imperium named the Tyranids).
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GBL wrote:
Again orks. I have never heard anyone complain about space orks and their fungal origins. In the same vein i dont see how using the same rules-breaking that created space orks, these space rats couldnt exist in the bowels of a giant ancient super ship. These points are stupider than arguing who shot who in cops and robbers. If warpath is an equally stupid 40k style universe, then anything goes. Otherwise we are going to have to apply these same rules to 40k.
Oh, I do that all the time. In fact, I pretend that that particular bit of stupid canon/lore just doesn't exist. Much like Highlander 2.
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nkelsch wrote:
Space rats are terrible no matter how you slice it, but the problem with space warfare is things get solved pretty easy with an orbital bombardment. They made the most drastic, ominous and dangerous foe of their entire universe a terribly implausible threat.
Years ago, my brother made a similar comment involving swords and airstrikes and 40k. He was of course, absolutely right - just as you are. However, he, as you, missed the point there. Which is that it's a (rather silly, in the end) game, so abstration and unrealistic things (weapon ranges) happen for the sake of gameplay. Otherwise our average 6x4 table would be for patrol vs patrol, etc. Not "armies."
Fantasy gets mostly a pass because of magic and suspension of disbelief. Not sure Sci-Fi universes get the same freedom. People like their Sci-fi to make sense.
If people liked the fluff, bad models would get a pass. If the fluff is terrible, people won't even buy good models.
40k makes little sense when you think about it, but again, I agree that people want their Sci-fi to make a bit more mechanical sense. Then again, Star Trek, Star Wars etc are perfect examples of lots of latitude being given in telling an entertaining story. With a miniatures game, the fluff is far less important - especially with Warpath, where the fluff is essentially meaningless. The models are far more important in this case.
It looks like they went for the thousands of year old ships theory for Project Pandora. In the depths of these ships, rats have evolved, possibly involving some poorly disposed of mutagen. Then, they taught themselves Karate, and chose the drill because of how easy it is to use to make extra tunnels in ships. Also, probably because it is really hard to make a menacing cutting torch or arc welder without special effects.
They need to meet a cat that has evolved over thousands of years in the belly of a ship.
Fantasy gets mostly a pass because of magic and suspension of disbelief. Not sure Sci-Fi universes get the same freedom. People like their Sci-fi to make sense.
Because sentient fungus whose guns, tanks, and spaceships work because of "if you believe in magic, clap your hands!" make a ton of sense. Fighting with swords when firearms exist also makes sense.
If people liked the fluff, bad models would get a pass. If the fluff is terrible, people won't even buy good models.
Grey Knights and to a lesser extent, Necrons, and to a greater extent, Ultramarines, say "hello".
Now, if the rules are terrible and the models are good, and people are stuck in the "I can only use models produced for a specific game to play that specific game", then sure.
I hated the Veermyn at first, but with the paint and more models being shown, they've grown on me. The 2 problems I see with the models is Mantic opting to go with an early 1900's ray gun theme and a lack of boots. Why does Mantic refuse to give models proper combat footwear?
Also the argument over which tabletop game is more believable is silly. It's a game and it's fiction. As far as aesthetics or fluff, that's a personal preference. And frankly both games have their fair share of terrible lore (well in Mantic's case it's almost non-existent) and horrible models or concepts. GW just has the advantage of being in business longer and having a larger range of products that can dilute the effect of bad models.
Unfortunately I think Mantic kind of blew it by not being able to keep the costs of their models down for a longer period of time and by deciding to do a mass ramp up in releases (which probably is partially the cause for the higher prices). But at least they still offer the discounts for buying in bulk through the army deals.
Back on topic, does anyone know what the next race is supposed to be, or when Mantic will rush it out the door?
The squad of 5 where three of them are holding their arms up parallel with the ground is just silly. What an awkward pose! And they don't look like rats, they look like pigs with those masks on.
I actually like the name - Veer'Myn - because, I think, it's a name that is entirely self aware. But the models themselves? Eeeck... no. Bad.
I actually think they are well suited for the project pandora boardgame. But unlike genestealers will not translate well outside of the corridor setting.
ArbeitsSchu wrote:Because no person-sized threat ever managed to successfully hide from the authorities or endanger people now, even under threat of extermination? There are no tunnel or cave systems in existence today containing people who successfully avoid the authorities? No credible threats from guerillas that happen to be the same size as person-sized rats? All people-sized threats are easily destroyed now?
As well as lacking the strengths of a rat, Veermyn also lack the strengths of human guerrillas. A human guerrilla can pretend to be someone we don't want to exterminate wholesale, a five foot tall rat cannot. A human guerrilla has allies within the populace we don't want to exterminate wholesale, a five foot tall rat does not.
Have I missed the article where Mantic explained that giant space rats breed less than regular ones? No, so where do you get the idea that they are 'less capable of replenishing their numbers'? Rats breed, and eat, and that's about it. Why would giant rats not do much the same?
Because a giant rat would need to eat more and would take longer to reach maturity. A giant, intelligent rat would take longer still. And these rats clearly don't just breed and eat, or they wouldn't have guns and drills.
I'm intrigued as to why you think zombies are not a 'credible threat' either (other than being fictional of course.)
A zombie is just a slow, stupid human that can only reproduce by winning a fight against something faster, smarter and more heavily armed than it.
Which is why zombies do so well, because so very few people are smarter than they, whether armed or not. Look at how stupid 'people' are.
You're making assumptions about the breeding cycle of these animals based on nothing, as far as I can see. Supposition? As far as I can tell, the fluff for these creatures that they are bigger, more intelligent rats. It would seem that the intention of the creator is that these things have retained the advantages of being a rat, such as a rapid breeding cycle. Any loss of advantage due to size is assumably counter-balanced by the introduction of humaniform intelligence and tool-use. A rat that is just 'bigger' might not stand much chance, but a rat that is bigger and shoots back at you is just a smidgin more of an issue. A rat that apparently doesn't have much of an issue with vacuum, and has a bloody great big drill might be even more of an issue.
Black Nexus wrote:Don't see what the problem is. Think the Nightmares are gorgeous actually. Armour looks sharp, one arm's blasting with the wrist mounted flame thrower which is pretty cool and the drill is used against walls and armour, or for tanks. Not as fussed on the Night-Crawlers, but I think the Nightmares are just ace. particularly if they were led with the night spawn that got leaked on BOLS:
The new Night-Crawlers aren't too bad, with a bit of conversion work on the pose's, add a few "odd-part" details and maybe replace the heads (they are horrible) I think I could make them look petty good.
Even though it's a real shame they don't look better out of the box. The commander is okay but again replace the head, now that I think about it I would have replace all the tails on the veer-myn models as well, the current ones are so blocky looking, not natural at all.
Also what's up with the guy at the front? he's jaw line and eye line are veering off in two different directions, his head is just so badly done I can't believe they gave it the green-light.
On a different note I must say I'm a little disappointed that the these guys are getting "Rat-Ogres" as their big units, its just so generic, not to mention a real great way of separating their product line from their closest competitors, because ya'know rat ogres aren't commonly associated with another popular vermin based army (regardless if they were orignally a GW creation or not). Just think of all the other possibilities Mantic could've done, recovered industrial mechs (like the power-loader from aliens) that have been altered for war, captured and tamed alien animals/monsters that the veer-myn stole from a alien species research lab and bred en-mass, captured clone troops that have been brought up/trained to serve the veer-myn with their lives, horribly altered by strange mutagens and god know what else.
But nope, just rat ogres with drills for arms, Meh.
Overall some of the veer-myn models are okay by Mantic's standards and at least it shows they are improving, I may even pick up Project Pandora but there is no chance of me buying a full army, simply to much work to make them look good. Who knows maybe in 3-6 years time (rough guess) we may see some really cool stuff from Mantic, but until then ..... well I dunno.
Rolt wrote:On a different note I must say I'm a little disappointed that the these guys are getting "Rat-Ogres" as their big units, its just so generic, not to mention a real great way of separating their product line from their closest competitors, because ya'know rat ogres aren't commonly associated with another popular vermin based army (regardless if they were orignally a GW creation or not). Just think of all the other possibilities Mantic could've done, recovered industrial mechs (like the power-loader from aliens) that have been altered for war, captured and tamed alien animals/monsters that the veer-myn stole from a alien species research lab and bred en-mass, captured clone troops that have been brought up/trained to serve the veer-myn with their lives, horribly altered by strange mutagens and god know what else.
But nope, just rat ogres with drills for arms, Meh.
Quite. Mantic's just not adventurous enough. Giant rats is playing it pretty safe, all in all.
Rolt wrote:On a different note I must say I'm a little disappointed that the these guys are getting "Rat-Ogres" as their big units, its just so generic, not to mention a real great way of separating their product line from their closest competitors, because ya'know rat ogres aren't commonly associated with another popular vermin based army (regardless if they were orignally a GW creation or not). Just think of all the other possibilities Mantic could've done, recovered industrial mechs (like the power-loader from aliens) that have been altered for war, captured and tamed alien animals/monsters that the veer-myn stole from a alien species research lab and bred en-mass, captured clone troops that have been brought up/trained to serve the veer-myn with their lives, horribly altered by strange mutagens and god know what else.
But nope, just rat ogres with drills for arms, Meh.
So instead of "the biggest and strongest rats" as a unit, because they are too WHFB you would like:
"Recovered industrial mechs (like the power-loader from aliens) that have been altered for war" - Sounds like a futurist Clan Skryre to me.
"Captured and tamed alien animals/monsters that the veer-myn stole from a alien species research lab and bred en-mass" - Not so mutatey Clan Moulder anyone?
"Captured clone troops that have been brought up/trained to serve the veer-myn with their lives, horribly altered by strange mutagens and god know what else." - A mutatey Clan Moulder but also with the concept of Clan Slaves added in.
We were trying to get away from WHFB werent we? How about some "very sick rats" that cough on opponents? Or "sneaky rats' that stab them when no one is looking? Ok, yeah that is a little on the nose to me too.
I think this guy is pretty neat as a one-off space mercenary or something, like in an Archon's court or a Xenos inquisitor's retinue. The rest of the rat range is only marginally less disappointing than the Fantasy Dwarfs with guns and Fantasy Orcs with guns.
They've been really badly publicised, but there is an upgrade pack available now (specifically for the Forge Fathers) - basically it's a bunch of extra heads and armour for the standard Steel Warriors, and makes them look a lot more 'sci-fi'. I think there is one coming for the Marauders as well.
Apparently because of the negative reaction about using the KoW bits for Warpath, it's not going to happen again - so I think it's a positive thing that the company is at least trying to listen to feedback and make adjustments accordingly.
Pacific wrote:Apparently because of the negative reaction about using the KoW bits for Warpath, it's not going to happen again - so I think it's a positive thing that the company is at least trying to listen to feedback and make adjustments accordingly.
Look above. It happened again! And next month you can buy a 20$ upgrade kit to make them look less ridiculously
I am not complaining about them making a Skryre Skaven fantasy army, only that they again botched the sculpting and pretent another barefoot/loincloth faction to be SciFi models. I might even buy some if they decide to release one decent Skryre Skaven sculpt.
And please can someone tell the sculptor that rodents have no carnivore teeth.
Kroothawk wrote:And please can someone tell the sculptor that rodents have no carnivore teeth.
Kroot, I love ya but you attributing real world expectations on a rat-like mutated species. Surely somewhere along the line when they grew 10000% and radically altered their physique they may have had the time to get some meat-eating teeth too?
Pacific wrote:Apparently because of the negative reaction about using the KoW bits for Warpath, it's not going to happen again - so I think it's a positive thing that the company is at least trying to listen to feedback and make adjustments accordingly.
Look above. It happened again! And next month you can buy a 20$ upgrade kit to make them look less ridiculously
Where, exactly, Kroot? As noted by Pacific, the criticism was that they were using parts from their KoW models as a base for their Warpath models. Last I checked, Mantic weren't currently producing, or have announced, a human army or "Skaven" army for KoW that they could be using in their Corporation or Veermyn lines.
So, I'll ask again - where has the KoW recycling happened again, Kroot?
That is a pretty good looking army. They need some gillie suits, some darker colors, and some scrapped together weapons from defeated enemies.
Very good looking sculpts considering the rest of the range. I am intrigued by them and they have definatly gotten my interest bqack since the space dwarf craptacular first army...
How do the human factions stack up with Starship Trooper minis, size wise?
Adding in a couple of squads of skavin with hand to hand weapons and las guns would be a great addin on that group of rats. Other would be some of those gothic rats from Megaminis, and some of those other weapons from the orks.
Amazing options for gaming, and.... no subpar finecast.
SOMEONE has taken a page out of GW's 1990's book, you know- the one that worked for them and put them on the map?
And please can someone tell the sculptor that rodents have no carnivore teeth.
What about mutated alien Space creatures that happen to LOOK like rodents?
I'd say that Mantic's "rodents" don't look any more silly in this regard than GW's repeated failed attempts at all thing wolf.
And every time someone says the Fenrisian wolves look awful, someone chmes in to say "but they arent WOLVES, they are an alien species called wolves..."
And please can someone tell the sculptor that rodents have no carnivore teeth.
What about mutated alien Space creatures that happen to LOOK like rodents?
These are not aliens. They are literally intended to be descendants of modern day rats.
Rats that now wear armor, use weapons and walk erect. And yet their teeth are your biggest concern?
Claiming evolution is all the more reason that they would not look like the rats of today.
creatures that evolve change often substantially over the course of thousands of years.
Who is to say that their teeth didnt evolve to more carnivorous form due to needing to fend off enemies or to allow them to better eat the meat they needed to grow in stature, or some other reason connected with survival etc?
This debate is silly...
Bottom line: pointy gnashy teeth look more ferocious and menacing than buck tooth rat teeth, and that is why the look that way. And thank god.
Vain wrote:So instead of "the biggest and strongest rats" as a unit, because they are too WHFB you would like:
"Recovered industrial mechs (like the power-loader from aliens) that have been altered for war" - Sounds like a futurist Clan Skryre to me.
"Captured and tamed alien animals/monsters that the veer-myn stole from a alien species research lab and bred en-mass" - Not so mutatey Clan Moulder anyone?
"Captured clone troops that have been brought up/trained to serve the veer-myn with their lives, horribly altered by strange mutagens and god know what else." - A mutatey Clan Moulder but also with the concept of Clan Slaves added in.
We were trying to get away from WHFB werent we? How about some "very sick rats" that cough on opponents? Or "sneaky rats' that stab them when no one is looking? Ok, yeah that is a little on the nose to me too.
Oh yes, trust me that's a very fair point, I think your going to end up with crossover/comparison units in the veer-myn army with skaven no matter what options you pick. Its just me personally the option comes off as a bit genetic, but I'm sure other people love the idea. I will admit I really want to get some of these miniatures in my hand so I can give them a fairer assessment, judging the miniatures fully off of pictures just isn't good enough.
Who knows I say I wouldn't buy an army now, but in a few months I might turn around and say:
"you know what? I want a big conversion project to keep me busy for a couple of months, Mantics Verr-myn would be perfect for that, I can change all suff I don't like and make them look really cool"
It would be far from the first time I've done that.
On a different note Mantics Podcast has been out for a few days now, has anyone listened to it? any interesting tid-bits to share?
I might listen to it later tonight, got some sculpting projects I what to finsh, would be happy to note down anything good I hear.
Few other offers there too, looks like these will be the deals they'll be offering at their Salute stand, but they're making them available for online customers too.
33% off with free shipping is pretty sweet, you could get 90 zombies for £40!
And please can someone tell the sculptor that rodents have no carnivore teeth.
What about mutated alien Space creatures that happen to LOOK like rodents?
I'd say that Mantic's "rodents" don't look any more silly in this regard than GW's repeated failed attempts at all thing wolf.
And every time someone says the Fenrisian wolves look awful, someone chmes in to say "but they arent WOLVES, they are an alien species called wolves..."
And please can someone tell the sculptor that rodents have no carnivore teeth.
What about mutated alien Space creatures that happen to LOOK like rodents?
I'd say that Mantic's "rodents" don't look any more silly in this regard than GW's repeated failed attempts at all thing wolf.
And every time someone says the Fenrisian wolves look awful, someone chmes in to say "but they arent WOLVES, they are an alien species called wolves..."
There are no wolves on Fenris...
I know that, which was exactly my point: Rat men are not 'Rats" they are "Rat men".
I'm still flabbergasted that there are people who are all "Hurrr, Space Rats with decidedly unratlike teeth are stupid!" but don't have a problem with psychic humanoid fungus creatures. Because psychic humanoid fungus creatures are so much more believable than evolved ratmen with odd teeth.
Note: I'm saying they're both pretty fething ridiculous. Hell, 40K is pretty much built on over-the-top flying rodent gak crazy stuff like that.
Psychic space fungus that has been bioengineered as a living weapon is a more credible threat than mutant space rats.
All a matter of opinion of course, and anyone is welcome to enjoy the concept and collect the army. I find them tremendously disappointing however and a poor indicator of the quality of background we can expect from mantic.
And I say this as someone who enjoys a bit of humour in their Grimdark.
Da Boss wrote:Psychic space fungus that has been bioengineered as a living weapon is a more credible threat than mutant space rats.
All a matter of opinion of course, and anyone is welcome to enjoy the concept and collect the army. I find them tremendously disappointing however and a poor indicator of the quality of background we can expect from mantic.
And I say this as someone who enjoys a bit of humour in their Grimdark.
This is a fictional universe of made up races, using made up weaponry, to fight battles in what we assume would be the natural way. Credibility is not involved.
Da Boss wrote:Psychic space fungus that has been bioengineered as a living weapon is a more credible threat than mutant space rats.
All a matter of opinion of course, and anyone is welcome to enjoy the concept and collect the army. I find them tremendously disappointing however and a poor indicator of the quality of background we can expect from mantic.
And I say this as someone who enjoys a bit of humour in their Grimdark.
Not sure how it's any more far-fetched than mutant fantasy rats? Or any other kind of mutant fantasy/sci-fi anthroporphic or hybrid animal-men? Beastmen, Broo, Kobolds, Minotaurs, Satyr, Tauren, Naga, Lammasu... etc
...and who's to say that Space Skaven aren't a bioengineered-weapon life form based on rats? Actually seems much more credible than Fungus Men.
And I say this as someone who doesn't much like the models. And I hate the name.
lord marcus wrote:This is a fictional universe of made up races, using made up weaponry, to fight battles in what we assume would be the natural way. Credibility is not involved.
A certain level of credibility is a requisite for a fictional universe, no matter how farfetched.
scarletsquig wrote:Another sale is on, Mantic are doing a "buy 2, get a 3rd free" offer on all their plastic sets.
http://www.manticblog.com/?p=5857 Few other offers there too, looks like these will be the deals they'll be offering at their Salute stand, but they're making them available for online customers too.
33% off with free shipping is pretty sweet, you could get 90 zombies for £40!
I can't see the free shipping bit?
Good deal on the plastic stuff though. Shame it doesn't cover the restic as well, as I have the plastic Undead already.
Death By Monkeys wrote:Okay, I apologize if this has been discussed already as I haven't followed this thread as closely as I should have, but what's the difference between the Corporation Marines and the Corporation Veterans?
Corporation Marines:
Corporation Veterans:
Correct me if I'm wrong, but from the pic, the figures look the same, but it's just that they have different weapons and the Vet box comes with a Heavy Weapon team. Is that correct? Or are there other differences I'm not seeing?
Black Nexus wrote:Got a little bit excited by these...
Can't wait until May!
These models keep getting worse and worse, don't they?
Will nobody post the images of the space ska... i mean, the veermyn? 
time Mantic shows their new actual models (other than their undead range).
