I think you are misunderstanding Pretre's point. The lack of an assault vehicle makes a unit of EXTREMELY fragile assault based models not viable. They are T3 with a 5+ save that have to sit in the open. If you can find a way to make that work, more power to you.
The only remotely viable use I can see for them is to keep them in your backfield as a counter assault unit. But that is contingent on you playing an assault based army that is currently saturated with shooting.
I'm sorry but Repentia (and Penitents) have pretty much always had the same problem (delivery). This book didn't change that, which is sad, but should be no big surprise to anyone. There are plenty of other lists to use, so try those out.
dadakkaest wrote: So the only viable army list appears to be.
snip
Exciting and dynamic.
Are you just looking to argue with people? You obviously haven't read a darn thing we have said without trying to take offense. I'll assume you just haven't read the thread and spell it out:
No. I am frustrated with 40k in general. Being essentially new to 6th edition and dealing with the learning curve/trying to play an army as I see them according to fluff has gotten me nothing but tabled. I'm just ready to go bandwagon and do whatever people think is the most broken. Which seems to be Riptide Spamming. Or just sell my sisters and orks and buy a PS4.
dadakkaest wrote: No. I am frustrated with 40k in general. Being essentially new to 6th edition and dealing with the learning curve/trying to play an army as I see them according to fluff has gotten me nothing but tabled. I'm just ready to go bandwagon and do whatever people think is the most broken. Which seems to be Riptide Spamming. Or just sell my sisters and orks and buy a PS4.
Dude, you can't just expect to be good at something from the start. When I started 40k, I got rofl-stomped forever until I learned how to play well. That's part of the learning curve. You can't just pick up any army and expect to kick ass.
TheKbob wrote: Recently, I realized that all the Crusader power weapons were locked to swords. I was sad, not because I was going to build some axe wielders (I was, so I guess they'll get GKDCA now...), but that I bought the Mordheim Sisters of Sigmar to be my battle conclave for fluff games:
I even lucked into one of the Augurs, which is one of the rarer for the set.
I
So Priest (esses) with Power Mauls for "smashing time" ? I do like the Sisters of Sigmar Models
Well the difference is dropping several hundred dollars on models that will likely never see a table after a couple of horrifying defeats to bandwagon tournament lists.
I saw you said you don't play with tournament players. I don't have the option to not play with tournament players.
dadakkaest wrote: Well the difference is dropping several hundred dollars on models that will likely never see a table after a couple of horrifying defeats to bandwagon tournament lists.
I saw you said you don't play with tournament players. I don't have the option to not play with tournament players.
Welcome to 40k. One, it is expensive and sisters doubly so. Two, you need to learn to lose before you can learn to win. Three, bandwagon is pretty common. Four, Sisters are actually really good at dealing with the current run of bandwagon lists (Seer Council, ScreamerStar, Riptides, Wraith Knights, etc).
Dude, you can't just expect to be good at something from the start. When I started 40k, I got rofl-stomped forever until I learned how to play well. That's part of the learning curve. You can't just pick up any army and expect to kick ass.
Good luck losing with a Riptide Spam list.
It was also easier to chill when making an army list wasn't a thousand dollar gamble.
Dude, you can't just expect to be good at something from the start. When I started 40k, I got rofl-stomped forever until I learned how to play well. That's part of the learning curve. You can't just pick up any army and expect to kick ass.
Good luck losing with a Riptide Spam list.
It was also easier to chill when making an army list wasn't a thousand dollar gamble.
Riptide spam. Say Hello to trip exorcists and trip dominions. Poof, there goes 1-2 riptides turn 1.
If you're so frustrated why are you posting on this topic at all? You're not going to convince anyone about your claims (with little evidence or argument may I add) of how SoB are hopelessly useless before the might of cheesy spam lists so...no offense but suck it up? 40K isn't really one for people used to instant gratification of winning, a lot of skilled players can handle the current net lists of DOOOOOOOOM relatively well even with "non-optimized" lists by using tactics/skills earned through experience. It's better to lose your first 10 games and learn how to use your army than win 100 times and learn you are woefully insufficient as a player when you come across real competition.
I didn't make any of the claims you're claiming I made. Take your pills. I'm trying to not spend money on units that are not effective. And auto-excluding a number of units from the codex is highly disappointing considering the ridiculous wait for a new 'dex for sisters. Repentia in theory should be a passable CC unit, something the army is sorely lacking but aren't. Because GW. Yay.
Right now, as I see it, Sisters of Battle are one of the best Anti Meta lists there is right now. Considering the Meta being Tidespam, Jet council and ScreamerStar sisters have the best answers to these as anyone. As stated Exorcists pull a number on Riptides, and all there suits by doubling them out. Scouting Dominions with 4 melta guns and an immolator will put 3 ish wounds on a riptide first turn, heck, there isn't much they can't kill! While RAI debate is still going on, when Contemnor Boltgun hits a unit, every psyker in the unit takes a perils, that's brutally effective VS seer council its not funny, and so OP most people don't play it like that. But even so, even if each shot only causes one perils 4 perils is enough to cripple a Jetlock star if you avoid the farseer. Your basic sisters are extremely good at holding objectives against melee units when in units of 10, considering each unit can have 2/3 flamer templates with 2 flamers and a combim as well as possibly re-rolling armour saves in combat with a brutally cost efficient priest. Alternatively Immo spam works far better then ever.
Why don't you give us a run down of the list, and we can help fix it instead of you simply complaining for the sake of it.
@dadakkaest : Show me an army that doesn't have bad/over priced units, if you do, you win an internet cookie.
dadakkaest wrote: I didn't make any of the claims you're claiming I made. Take your pills. I'm trying to not spend money on units that are not effective. And auto-excluding a number of units from the codex is highly disappointing considering the ridiculous wait for a new 'dex for sisters.
Minus that the sisters don't have many variations in minis... you hvae sisters with bolters, sisters with flamers, sisters with meltas, heavy bolters, heavy flamers, multi meltas (there are all of your Battle sisters, dominions, celstians, doms.... then you have serephim, and repentia... not like you can't mix and match a chunk of those as needed... it's not like buying centurians and esiding they suck and you can't just put em in another unit
dadakkaest wrote: I didn't make any of the claims you're claiming I made. Take your pills. I'm trying to not spend money on units that are not effective. And auto-excluding a number of units from the codex is highly disappointing considering the ridiculous wait for a new 'dex for sisters.
Minus that the sisters don't have many variations in minis... you hvae sisters with bolters, sisters with flamers, sisters with meltas, heavy bolters, heavy flamers, multi meltas (there are all of your Battle sisters, dominions, celstians, doms.... then you have serephim, and repentia... not like you can't mix and match a chunk of those as needed... it's not like buying centurians and esiding they suck and you can't just put em in another unit
Exactly. There are some pretty cool models that could break up the uniformity of the army, and add some depth and diversity of play as well, but bringing them is apparently a points sink because no open topped or assault transport to deliver them or they're going to draw fire like crazy and just die...
I believe I'm qualified to say this without getting too much flak. I own 3 penitent engines.
Perhaps the best advice one can give to a new player.
I just started back into 6th Edition with my Imperial Guard. Sure, you will lose your first few games in only a few turns. It's a big rule book with lots of little nubbins to learn. But those losses eventually turn into draws and those draws eventually turn into victories. Just like anything in life, it takes practice to make perfect. Hell, that adage is older than sin and just as well known.
Y'all have mentioned prior about playing the mission, not the models, and that is also expert advice. You can learn a lot by taking advice in this forum and not just spamming a boring Internet list. It's a gentlemen's game (no offense ladies), after all, not a real war. Win or lose, hell, just enjoy the game.
dadakkaest wrote: Exactly. There are some pretty cool models that could break up the uniformity of the army, and add some depth and diversity of play as well, but bringing them is apparently a points sink because no open topped or assault transport to deliver them and they're going to draw fire like crazy and just die...
I believe I'm qualified to say this without getting too much flak. I own 3 penitent engines.
You could cut and paste this statement into any discussion about any codex with very little change. Every single codex has units that just aren't that good. Just replace the words Penitent Engines with:
- Squads of Blood Claws \ Sky Claws
- Dreadnoughts
- Rough Riders
- Tankbustas
- Krootox
- Pyrovores
- etc, so on...
Having looked the book over I like it quite a bit. I'm gonna give it a go and see what happens.
One of my buddies (Jeremy V) played a league game last night where his 20 Girls with 5 Priests and Uriah killed (he said mostly smash kills):
- Chapter Master
- 6 Bikers
- 10 Assault Marines
Celestine went and killed 19 marines by herself and died on turn 7.
Penitents are OK, used in the right (see specific) way.
I'm not sure I can salvage Repentia anymore in standard codex.
Maybe in my fandex add-ons...
Using rough math, then:
Spoiler:
Walking up the field, on their own, they're 155pts.
Assume the target is fairly standard 1 squad, 10 Marines, 2 Plasmaguns, and you go first.
Turn 1a: Move > Not in charge range.
1b: > Not in Rapid Fire range - 8 Bolters + 2 Plasma: 4.6 + 1.3 hits > 3 + 1.1 wounds
> 2 saved by Mistress, mistress fails 3rd and dies > 0.2 wounds saved by Repentia > 0.9 wounds taken. (1.9W total) > 8 Repentia left.
Turn 2a: Act of Faith > Charge > Overwatch - 16 Bolter + 4 Plasma: 2.6 + 0.6 hits > 1.7 + 0.5 wounds > 0.8 saved by Repentia > 1.4 wounds taken (3.3W total)
> 7 make it to combat. > Marines swing with 10 CC attacks > 5 hit > 3.3 wound > 1.5 saved > 1.8 wounds taken (5.1W total) > 5 Repentia swing with 20 attacks >
> 10 hit > 8.3 wound > 2 Marines left.
2b: 2 Marines make 2 CC attacks > 1 hit > 0.7 wounds > 0.1 saved > 0.6 wounds taken (5.7W total)
> 4 Repentia swing with 8 attacks > 4 hit > 3.3 Wounds > Marines dead > consolidate.
Turn 3a: Move > Charge (lets say 6 with bolters) > Overwatch 12 shots > 2 hit > 1.3 wounds > 0.2 saved > 1.1 taken (6.8W total) > 3 Repentia left.
> 6 Marines swing > 3 hit > 2 wounds > 0.3 saved > 1.7 taken (8.5W total) > 1 Repentia left.
> 1 Repentia swings with 2 attacks > 1 hit > 0.8 wounds > 1 dead marine.
3b: I think we can see were this is going.
and that's a pretty generous situation to be honest. If a second squad of marines joined in shooting turn 1, that'd be 3.5W, leaving 5 to charge, 2 to swing, and they'll die next turn.
Or if they don't get their AoF, and 3 are left to swing.
Though if they can get into coverand decent dt rolls, it'll be a little more favourable.
Hell, if it would go like that each game, they're not even that bad.
If you put them in a vehicle, then assuming the transport doesn't die, and they don't have to sit in rapid fire range,
and they can get out and hide behind the vehicle, and it doesn't get blown upm leaving them in murder range,
Then they'll still take 2-7 wounds, leaving 2-8 to charge, a turn later.
Walking up behind a transport would probably reduce wounds a bit too by giving moving cover, allowing them to assault.
Maybe a wall of Repressors / Immolators to hide behind, bringing a mobile counter-assault unit + wall of death sort of thing.
Putting Jacobus with them might even be a semi-viable strategy to get 2 or even 3 charges out of them but is it worth the additional 100pts?
dadakkaest wrote: I didn't make any of the claims you're claiming I made. Take your pills. I'm trying to not spend money on units that are not effective. And auto-excluding a number of units from the codex is highly disappointing considering the ridiculous wait for a new 'dex for sisters.
Minus that the sisters don't have many variations in minis... you hvae sisters with bolters, sisters with flamers, sisters with meltas, heavy bolters, heavy flamers, multi meltas (there are all of your Battle sisters, dominions, celstians, doms.... then you have serephim, and repentia... not like you can't mix and match a chunk of those as needed... it's not like buying centurians and esiding they suck and you can't just put em in another unit
Exactly. There are some pretty cool models that could break up the uniformity of the army, and add some depth and diversity of play as well, but bringing them is apparently a points sink because no open topped or assault transport to deliver them or they're going to draw fire like crazy and just die...
I believe I'm qualified to say this without getting too much flak. I own 3 penitent engines.
Now you are on a diffrent point, you can build several lists with just sisters. if you want diffrent looking units... that's a diffrent can of worms. (smatter in some priests, serephim, or ally something.
Ovion, those numbers of wounds taken for the Repentia seem low. You didn't give then Feel No Pain when you ran the numbers did you? They only have their Shield of Faith now.
ClockworkZion wrote: Ovion, those numbers of wounds taken for the Repentia seem low. You didn't give then Feel No Pain when you ran the numbers did you? They only have their Shield of Faith now.
I only gave them FnP (3+) with the AoF, during the initial assault phase (so Overwatch (though not against the 0.6 wounds caused by the Plasma Gun) + first 10 Marine CC attacks).
The math is 'fuzzy averages', in a vacuum, with 1 squad of 10 Repentia, against 1 squad of 10 Marines.
Also remember, the Mistress tanks the first 3 wounds, which helps a lot.
Of course, like I said, if there's a second unit firing at them, or in Rapid Fire Range, there'll be significantly more casualties.
Or if more than Bolters, or something with a higher WS, etc.
But that 3+ FnP for even 1 phase counts for a lot.
dadakkaest wrote: I don't know if anyone brought this up yet but. Taking repentia now seems desirable if you add Uriah with them in a Rhino or a repressor.
That's a 10 model squad with 8 models having 2 base attacks each at STr6 AP1 that get to reroll a 5+ invuln save and get 2 uses of their act of faith that consist of a 3+FNP.
With all those invuln and FNP saves that most of those S6 AP1 eviscerators will swing and get to reroll misses at WS4 with the Hatred Special rule.
Problem is that if someone blows up your rhino, the girls are going to be in for a world of hurt. This is probably the only squad in the codex I'd concider putting in a repressor.
What's making te 5++ rerollable? If yiu're thinking ofthe War Hymn, you only get that when locked in combat while I agree it would be nice hey'll nevee get theredue to the assault vehicle isses (ie te lack of) and how fragile they are.
Unfortunatley Repentia aint happening wih this dex.
Mech
- TL-MM Immo
- 4 Condemnors or 4 Combi-Plasma or 4 Heavy Flamers (depending on how you feel about things)
- Priest or Canoness with matching combi
Celestine
Jacobus
5 Priests (one with Litanies and Evisc, other 4 with mauls)
20 girl blob with heavy flamer, flamer, condemnor and a simulacrum
5 girls with heavy flamer, meltagun, condemnor in MM Immo with a dozer blade
5 girls with heavy flamer, meltagun, condemnor in MM Immo with a dozer blade
5 girls with heavy flamer, meltagun, condemnor in MM Immo with a dozer blade
5 Doms with 4 melta and a condemnor in MM Immo with a dozer blade and laud hailers
5 Doms with 4 melta and a condemnor in MM Immo with a dozer blade and laud hailers
Exorcist
Exorcist
Pretty straight forward: Try for first turn, Celestine rides with one of the Dom units to give them rerollable LD10 checks for their AoF (getting that ignores cover is so critical for the alpha). Depending on the results of that first turn of shooting she either goes and creates havok among nearby troop units, or she falls back into the giant priest-blob. Blob moves up and owns the center of the board, with Jacobus, Litanies, and Simulacrum they get 3 turns of preferred enemy shooting, which is great. The three 5 girl squads generally just go troop hunting, or bait things closer to the blob in the center. I do kinda wish I had a third Exorcist, but I just don't have the points for it.
Celestine can't ride in a vehicle. I would just ditch her and use the points for a third Exo. Rerollable Ld8 is pretty decent and I wouldn't sweat it. You could get a VSS if you're really worried.
Also, how about swapping the meltas on the troops for HF. I think you have plenty of Melta.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Alternatively, you might be able to place her at the front of the blob and have her join first turn.
Mech
- TL-MM Immo
- 4 Condemnors or 4 Combi-Plasma or 4 Heavy Flamers (depending on how you feel about things)
- Priest or Canoness with matching combi
Mech
- TL-MM Immo
- 4 Condemnors or 4 Combi-Plasma or 4 Heavy Flamers (depending on how you feel about things)
- Priest or Canoness with matching combi
etc, so on.
1.5k, no allies, no fortifications personally.
Then use the second one under mech above.
They make a good guided missile. Either anti-psyker, anti-hard target or anti-infantry.
I don't know that they are worth the price of admission (canoness), but if you are going to take a canoness you might as well take the SCS.
Comrades, I am in the process of building an acquisition list for my girls.
I have 2x Rhinos
2x Immos
and not much of a desire to get more of those.
I have 1x Exorcist, and I intend to get a second. (Have a nice one picked out on the secondary market as it happens, still no pipe organs for me >.>
I only have heavy bolter rets for heavy weapons. I have plenty of flamer, SB and MG girls.
So it's down to heavy weapons. Just in general how many HF and MM girls should I pick up?
Then I'm going to continue my plan to convert up some Condemnor combi bolters.
Other then that I can't really think of anything else besides the codex itself I need to add to bring my girls up to current. Suggestions? I haven't really started listing crunching besides percolating what y'all have on here.
pretre wrote: Celestine can't ride in a vehicle. I would just ditch her and use the points for a third Exo. Rerollable Ld8 is pretty decent and I wouldn't sweat it. You could get a VSS if you're really worried.
Also, how about swapping the meltas on the troops for HF. I think you have plenty of Melta.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Alternatively, you might be able to place her at the front of the blob and have her join first turn.
Oh man, you are so right! I totally forgot about being bulky, damn.
Assuming you meant flamers instead of MGs on the 3 troops (they already have heavy flamers)? I may do that now to afford the dominion vet upgrades.
I may get shouted down simply due to the usefulness of immos, and the points cost with no access to a laud hailer, but where do people stand on repressors? Frontal av 13 seems handy to me, I'm just not sure if I can justify the extra points that could go towards my third exorcist.
Myceron wrote: I may get shouted down simply due to the usefulness of immos, and the points cost with no access to a laud hailer, but where do people stand on repressors? Frontal av 13 seems handy to me, I'm just not sure if I can justify the extra points that could go towards my third exorcist.
I think AV13 still has a place. The fact that you can put a MM in a Repressor for 140 is pretty nasty. AV 13 wall of doom.
Well guys, I am throwing my hat in there for a list. Short of proxing some razorbacks for Immolators, I am maxed out on what I have. Also, I am running a tad short on flamers and meltaguns, but such is life. This is for an 1850 list. There are a lot of Nid players who like to run psychic terivgons and the swarm lord, hence the stacking of condemnors.
Canoness (Rosarius, Mantle of St. O, Power Sword, Condemnor, Melta Bombs)
Priests x 4
Priest x 1 (LoF, Power Maul)
SCS (Dialogus, Heavy Flamer x 3, Multi-Melta) Immolator w / TLMM
Battle Sisters x 5 (Condemnor, Storm Bolter**, Multi-Melta)
Battle Sisters x 5 (Condemnor, Storm Bolter**, Multi-Melta)
Battle Sisters x 5 (Condemnor, Flamer, Multi-Melta)
Battle Sisters x 5 (Condemnor, Flamer, Multi-Melta)
Dominion x 6 (SI, Meltauns x 4, Vet) Imm w / TLMM and Laud Hailer
Dominion x 6 (SI, Meltauns x 4, Vet) Imm w / TLMM and Laud Hailer
Dominion x 10 (Condemnor, Flamer x 4) Rhino
Exorcist x 3
*** Will change to flamer if opponent is OK with proxying.
Why a MM on the SCS?
Also, you might as well make bigger squads, if you have the bolter girls for the BSS. Those 5 girl squads without vehicles are not going to survive long.
Why flamers on the 10 girl dominions in the Rhino? and why 10girls?
pretre wrote: Yeah, swap meltas for Flamers. I can has typing good. That'll get you 15 points.
Are you really sold on the dozers? (I'm guessing the models already have them or something) If not, take them off the BSS squad Immos to save points.
Yeah, I am absolutely king of failing clutch immobilization rolls. I'll find a way to get the other 5 points for the second vet upgrade.
On a slightly different note (and this is because I absolutely LOVE the DK model) I wonder if Sisters and GK are better/worse/neutral now:
Jacobus/Celestine (need to put more thought into this and have the spare points for either)
Coteaz
Three BSS (HF, flamer, condemnor) in MM Immos
3 Plasma Cannons, 2 Jokeros, 5 acolytes in a chimera
3 acolytes in razorback with psybolt
Two 5 girl Dom squads (4MG condemnor) MM Immos
2 Exorcists
DK with sword, incinerator, teleporter
The more I stare at it the more I think pure sisters will be better... but doms + DK, backed up by exorcists and Coteaz-buffed plasma cannons is a nasty T1.
Because I only have 3 Heavy Flamer models. If they are fine with proxy, then it would be 4.
pretre wrote: Also, you might as well make bigger squads, if you have the bolter girls for the BSS. Those 5 girl squads without vehicles are not going to survive long.
Why flamers on the 10 girl dominions in the Rhino? and why 10girls?
I found the 10 dominion flamer car to be very effective at clearing out those infantry models you absolutely need dead early. Usually, this means anything with markerlights. While the rest of the army is drawing attention with multi-meltas and exorcist shots, this one gets conveniently ignored most of the time. It could just as easily be 5 with an Immolator,
Yeah, but it gives me something to do with my current Battle conclave models on the shelf.
Need to trim some fat, but Jacobus, some priests, Big sister blob, standard 10 sister rhino, 2 Dominion units, 2 exorcists, Coteaz, "Conclave", Raven, and DK is looking very interesting.
Aha, model requirements. I hope they let you proxy!
quiestdeus wrote:Yeah, but it gives me something to do with my current Battle conclave models on the shelf.
Need to trim some fat, but Jacobus, some priests, Big sister blob, standard 10 sister rhino, 2 Dominion units, 2 exorcists, Coteaz, "Conclave", Raven, and DK is looking very interesting.
Just as an FYI, here's what he ran at 1850 (I think):
Celestine
Uriah
5 Priest (1 Litany)
20 Sisters with 1 Condemn
3x 5 Sisters with HF/F and Condemn in TL-MM Immo
2 Exorcist
Coteaz
7 DCA, 3 Crusader, 1 Banisher
Raven with the trimmings
pretre wrote: Hmm... I personally would get 1 HF for each troop squad you have. If you plan on playing easy-bake, then get extras.
As for MM, I wouldn't get them unless you can get them cheap. The only use for them is really for a 'home' squad.
Do you have priests? You'll need some of those or a good counts-as.
I have three "priestesses" coming (I'm using Warmachine Protectorate female warcasters) I'll need to do a little conversion work, but I have a magic book handy and one of them is already rocking a massive zweihander for evicersator style. What's the current good word on ranged weapons for priests? I think I saw something about picking up a little plasma via them? (Priests that is) I also have a unit of Daughters of the Flame inbound to buff up my DCA for potential conclave runs... I do need to paint pretty much ALL the conclave models sadly. Including the Inquisitor I'm using for counts as Jacobus. (The witch hunter inquisitor with the "power rapier" for the curious)
Lord of Nonsensical Crap wrote: So, I don't know if this has already come up in this discussion, but with the advent of the new Sisters 'dex, I've been pondering the viability of a Sisters blob. A big squad of 20 Battle Sisters, led by Uriah and a Litanies of Faith Priest, would be able to benefit from two War Hymns at once (passed automatically thanks to the LoF), would be Fearless, and would be able to reroll all of their armour/5+ invul saves in close combat.
Do any of you think this big unit is tactically viable, or is it bound to get shot to hell by ordnance/Hellturkies etc?
EDIT: Aaargh, and now I notice someone beat me to it.
dadakkaest wrote: I'm trying to not spend money on units that are not effective. And auto-excluding a number of units from the codex is highly disappointing Snip.
Sooo... you're criticising the AS codex for 'auto-excluding' a number of units whilst comparing it to internet lists that auto-exclude a number of units?
I was about to add-on "same as anyone else who hasn't got a flyer yet" until I realised almost every other army has some way of mitgating flyers without relying on the above 3.
Myceron wrote: I may get shouted down simply due to the usefulness of immos, and the points cost with no access to a laud hailer, but where do people stand on repressors? Frontal av 13 seems handy to me, I'm just not sure if I can justify the extra points that could go towards my third exorcist.
You can always mail FW about updating it to the new codex.
They updated the SM things after all. and the repressor is not nearly as much work.
So its been a loooooong time since ive been able to post but while I was out on deployment I saw the new AS codex came out so it was one of the first things I purchased.
Anyway, I have a 2k game tomorrow vs DE and wanted to bring this:
Canoness
- Power Sword (only cause I modeled her like this and im a strict adherent to WYSIWYG)
Priest
SCS - 5x Heavy Bolters
BSS x4
- Chainsword on Superior (just cause)
- Flamer
- HF - MM Immo
BSS - +15 girls (total of 20)
- Flamer
- HF
Dominions x3
- Vet
- 4x Melta
- MM Immo
Exorcist x3
ADL - Lascannon (i dont like the quad gun, I prefer the S9 single shot)
So I know that gives me
7 MM Immos (3 Scout/OF)
3 Exorcists
Plenty of cleansing fire
The plan is to have the blob hold the central home objective while the doms scout and alpha strike. The rest of the troop choices are there to move in and burn the heretics, even if they die in the process. My canoness will man the gun for her BS5 but her SCS will be available to shoot out 15 HB shots to cover any approaches to my home base. I think the canoness will be lumped in with the blob just for ablative wounds and so she cant get singled out easily. This list brings a lot of armor that has largely fallen out of favor in my local meta (Jacksonville, FL). I love my AS and the return of Immolator spam makes me very very happy. Im in the process now of altering 4 SOB rhinos to the new hotness, ASMM Immos. Good thing I saved all those bits!!
Exorcists can also often be relied upon to take down fliers if they don't have anything better to shoot at, just through sheer volume of fire.
Honestly there's very little you can't use exorcists for-- I mean I wouldn't use them against grots or termagants, but almost every other target but hordes... and hell, even against hordes they aren't bad per se-- just a bit inefficient.
The best thing for hordes is Guard allies and a Leman Russ Punisher! Or the Avenger Cannon!
Mixed with lots and lots of flamers. Season with exorcist missiles for larger, less squishy things within the hordes, and serve when all foes of the emperor have been thoroughly smote.
In other news, I have a new Exorcist coming my way, it'll need some extra bits to be fully kitted out. So... naming contest, now taking ideas for the best bull gak lati... err high gothic name for my latest rolling missile spam nightmare of faith and fire.
Purchased codex earlier. Made a 1500 points list and showed up at my store. Found a match against a guy playing salamanders with guard allies.
My list:
Celestine
Jacobus
4 priests with power mauls
2 x 5 BSS, Heavy Flamer, flamer, combi-flamer. Multi Melta Immo
20 BSS, heavy Flamer, flamer, simulacrum
5 Doms, 4 meltas. Multi Melta Immo
3 x Exorcists
His list:
Vulkan
2 x 5 tac marines. Flamer in one squad and Meltagun in the other. Drop pod on each squads
10 sternguards. 4 combi melta, 4 combi flamer. Drop pod.
2 x Dreadnough with Multimelta and heavy flamer. Also in pods
5 Devastators. 3 Missile and 1 las cannon
Marbo
Company Command Squad with Meltas in chimera
2 x veterans with plasma in chimeras.
I got turn one and it wasnt pretty for him. Game was relic.
I moved 2 immos with 5 BSS up the center towards relic and followed with big blob behind. Got him to focus on the Immos and the sister squads that came out over the game which allowed me to move sister blob in position.
He ended up podding around the relic to try and prevent me from moving to it. Eventually assaulted with the blob into 2 squads by the pods. Wiped the marines off the table and lost nothing in return. Celestine ended up in a challenge with Vulkan.
So many re-rolls from sisters standing by and from hymns she never got touched and having him do 5 armor saves a turn he died after 2 turns. Thinking about it, I should have just hit and run after his assault phase and finish off Vulkan with Exorcist fire and assault the drop pods left.
We stopped on turn 5 since all he had left was his chimera with his command squad and some drop pods and had no hopes of taking the relic at this point. Also had first blood, slay the warlord and line breaker.
I really liked the blob, but I am thinking that against anything with big blasts like Leman Russes or Vindicators, it will be pointless for how expensive it is... anything that assaults it and isnt crazy at it (like a grey knight conclave) will be tarpitted forever or die rather quickly. The re-roll wounds from that Hymn is what sisters really needed to do anything in assault against anything with T4+ and the re-roll armors is plainly crazy.
That codex revitalized my love for my sister army. So many possible builds now.
Played a 1250 match against Blood Angels. Short recap
Celestine
3 priests
3x5 BSS, Flamer, Flamer, Condemer, Immolator w/MM 1x Dominion w'4 meltas, Immolator w/MM 1x Repentia
3 Exorcist
His list
Librarian
3x10 assault marines with FnP guy
2 Predators
Aegis line and quad gun
Purge the Alien, short tableside deployment
We went to turn 3 and he called it. the Condemer Boltgun caused a wound on the librarian, Exorcists blew up a predator first turn and killed off an Assault group, Dominions meltas the last predator. Celestine flamed, assaulted and killed off another group over 2 turns. by the end of turn 3 all he had was one group of marines on the quad gun, at that point I had only lost an immolator.
Army thoughts,
I love smaller groups of sisters, love 4 specials on the Doms, Exorcists rock, and Celestine did great and didnt die. Priests rock giving the unit Fearless and hatred. Very happy and hope I played the army correctly with the update
I'm sorry but Repentia (and Penitents) have pretty much always had the same problem (delivery). This book didn't change that, which is sad, but should be no big surprise to anyone. There are plenty of other lists to use, so try those out.
It hurts my black little heart that they felt the need to nerf both units... it's certainly not as if they were swamping the tournaments and flooding the tables with tiny tears of frustration at their game breaking greatness. I was hoping for something to help them, but not expecting it... getting worse was a nasty surprise.
Overall I am not unhappy with the dex, but it hits my set up pretty hard. And my pocket book! I'm one of the few folks who will have to revamp my entire army, what with my low count of standard SoB models and transport vehicles. Looks like I'm playing on Vassal for awhile!
dadakkaest wrote: I'm trying to not spend money on units that are not effective. And auto-excluding a number of units from the codex is highly disappointing Snip.
Sooo... you're criticising the AS codex for 'auto-excluding' a number of units whilst comparing it to internet lists that auto-exclude a number of units?
Here, have some warm milk and a rusk.
I'm so sorry I didn't like absolutely everything about the codex. Really. Don't black ball me at the country club for not liking a product into which very little effort was placed by the vendor.
Didn't get a game last night, I'd forgotten that it was a Pathfinder night last night in all the excitement of the new dex coming out. Just as well really as I'm not 100% happy with my lists @ 1000 or 1500 pts.
Canoness. I'm loath to take a commander that's not doing much. Normally my characters are quite defensive. I was thinking about using a Canoness as a gunslinger, does anyone know if this is possible? It strikes me as a cool thing to do and makes her potentially useful, especially if she's packing double high strength pistols. Although the wording in the codex seems to imply I can only swap one weapon for a ranged weapon, meaning a bolt pistol and another type. Does this sound right to people? My intent, as I have to take a command, was to bung her in a scs with four heavy flamers riding in a mm immo.
Just had a reply from Forgeworld about updating the Repressor rules, expect them to be updated (to be able to take laud hailers, and to be a dedicated transport for Repentia) but not for a little while as they are busy with new HH and IA books....About what i expected really.
Myceron wrote: Canoness. I'm loath to take a commander that's not doing much. Normally my characters are quite defensive. I was thinking about using a Canoness as a gunslinger, does anyone know if this is possible? It strikes me as a cool thing to do and makes her potentially useful, especially if she's packing double high strength pistols. Although the wording in the codex seems to imply I can only swap one weapon for a ranged weapon, meaning a bolt pistol and another type. Does this sound right to people? My intent, as I have to take a command, was to bung her in a scs with four heavy flamers riding in a mm immo.
I was thinking about this too. Unless there's a precedent, I don't see any reason why the canoness couldn't exchange her bolt pistol and chainsword for two plasma pistols. It'd be pretty awesome to deck both her and the SCS out this way. 370 points, but it'd be worth it at least once to see the look on a space marine players face when you pop out of an immo and eat his termie squad. Cloak of St. Aspira on the canoness would also be great for mitigating Gets Hot.
Not sure on the dual inferno pistols. The way the codex is written, it says a model can replace one weapon with one of the following.
Now, I would take it to mean you swap a bolt pistol for one inferno and a chainsword for the other. However, I am sure there are rules lawyers out there who will parse that up saying you can only take one (much as the Relics argument is going).
With that being said, you could sport a bolt pistol and inferno pistol and be completely compliant.
Model her with a book, an inferno pistol, and a holstered pistol of some sort, play it as whatever the opponent is good with. The book canalso be THE book if you feel like it.
Still not sure if its the greatest idea, but hey, it'll probably LOOK cool.
I am always amazed at how many people get into argument with people who just created an account on a forum and have been negative/trolling the thread this entire time.
It is so much easier to simply ignore those posts and stick with what is constructive and positive.
Hollowman wrote: It hurts my black little heart that they felt the need to nerf both units... it's certainly not as if they were swamping the tournaments and flooding the tables with tiny tears of frustration at their game breaking greatness. I was hoping for something to help them, but not expecting it... getting worse was a nasty surprise.
To be fair, they didn't really nerf them. They just didn't make them better. They've never been good. :(
Going to miss my bastion for now =-(
I like the Retributer HB holed up inside of this but since im going with a blob I think the ADL is a better choice.
Besides three Exorcists should mean a lot of missiles raining on my foes!
shadowsfm wrote: i'd call giving the broken penitent engine even less attacks and the repentia less feel no pain opportunities as a nerf
Except the PE got 3 base attacks (for 4) instead of D6+1. So it smooths out the randomness of the unit. (And only gives -.5 attacks on average).
Repentia got much better FNP now but can only use it in Hand to Hand but in exchange they got dedicated transports and much cheaper.
So as I said, they really didn't get nerfed but they didn't get better.
you forget about the penitent engine's bonus attacks (battle frenzy) didnt you?
and as for the repentia, they used to still be able to attack after their own death
Hollowman wrote: It hurts my black little heart that they felt the need to nerf both units... it's certainly not as if they were swamping the tournaments and flooding the tables with tiny tears of frustration at their game breaking greatness. I was hoping for something to help them, but not expecting it... getting worse was a nasty surprise.
To be fair, they didn't really nerf them. They just didn't make them better. They've never been good. :(
Repentia were pretty decent in 5th when employing "Grand Theft Rhino" but that went away with 6th and the "no assault from transports that aren't assault vehicles" and only got worse with this change.
shadowsfm wrote: you forget about the penitent engine's bonus attacks (battle frenzy) didnt you?
and as for the repentia, they used to still be able to attack after their own death
I had forgotten about the bonus since I never use PEs. I still think the standard number is better, but concede that they lost that. 3+ FNP on LD is better than 5+ or 4+ to swing once last.
shadowsfm wrote: no matter how much we argue over a peice of crap, it is still a peice of crap.
so, moving on
That's not a fair statement. who made you the be-all-end-all of how effective a unit is? Penitent engines have there uses against certain foes, doing very well against horde type armies or a tervigon spam list (The amount of strength 10 hits this thing puts out is frightening!) and Repentia can work as a counter assault unit. The problem is they fill roles we don't NEED filled. Why take chances in combat to kill a Tervigon when you can spam melta? Why take Repentia when a battle conclave make a better counter/assault unit? But don't simply blanket mark them as 'crap' because they don't find there way into competitive lists, every codex has them simply because the concept won't work competitively. I mean penitent engines will always be fragile, that's there thing, in a meta of Krak grenades that's not a good thing. But that's their thing. They are still great at grinding down ork hordes and make great anti biker bob units for how cheap they are (As said, strength 10, you only have to cause 2 wounds to make points back). Think about it before you go and chunk entire units into the rubbish bin,
If we're honest with ourselves, when we look at the Penitent Engine, you don't see a very effective unit. Certainly, it has murderous potential in close combat. However, there is a massive issue getting it into combat which means that potential is ultimately pointless. By comparison to other type of walkers or even Monstrous Creatures, it is not very durable and only slightly more effective. With Rhino class armor, most armies have an over abundance of things that can reliably pop it, as an important part of the game currently is popping rhinos/transports. As a result, you're paying a lot for a slow Rhino. (6" + D6" maximum speed versus guaranteed 12") Additionally, the opponent doesn't even have to then coordinate more shooting at the gooey bits inside which are the threat, they can just pop it and move on. Compared to the aforementioned monstrous creature (such as a Tyranid), it will take four successful wounds from anti-tank weapons (Toughness 6 is roughly equivalent to Armor 10) to bring one of those beasts down. It only takes 3 successful "wounds" with similar weaponry to bring an Engine down. And a MC doesn't have to worry about being hit by AP 1/2 causing it to spontaneously combust. It can't absorb as much firepower, its only moderately more effective in the close combat its not going to get to, and is only slightly less expensive.
I don't think its unfair to call it a crap unit considering you can grab allied Space Marines or even IG and get more useful walkers. Ironclad Dreadnaughts, while not the same level of close combat power, make effective tarpits and are a ton more durable, while Armored Sentinels can take can bring decent shooting such as Lascannons the girls don't have. There's not much of a price difference between an Engine and an Armored Sentinel with guns I'd wager. (Though, taking your only allied FA choice and not grabbing Vendettas is not precisely wise either.)
And if you'd want to bring up the added cost of having to buy an HQ and troop choices, that ignores the added value those units have. It already seems pretty common practice to bring in IG anyway.
So no matter how you slice it, taking an Engine is giving yourself a handicap you can't afford to. If its a fun game, sure go nuts, have fun. Just don't expect them to do much except absorb their points cost in anti-armor shooting for a turn or two and die. Perhaps that'll get your rhinos just a bit closer, but then you'd better earn their points back and the cost of the unit you distracted for.
It needs to be much better to compete with anything, even in its own list. Exorcists or even Fire Trucks are a more solid investment by leagues. That fact alone means its not worth taking, and so therefore its not unreasonable for someone to turn their nose up at it. It should be better, and its poor design that its not.
Edit: Had Carnies in mind when I wrote this from the 'Nid perspective, but they only have 4 wounds. Corrected, but honestly doesn't detract from the point. Even so, Carnies have a 3+ armor save against anything not AP 3, making them even tougher.
PEs entire fluff is about most of them dying and the last few falling amidst the corpses of the other side. They're one of the few things in 40k that actually works like the lore says.
shadowsfm wrote: i'd call giving the broken penitent engine even less attacks and the repentia less feel no pain opportunities as a nerf
Penitent Engines get 3(4) attacks. thats not a small amount for a dreadnought. It's twice what most of them get. Just saying.
dreadnoughts get just as many attacks at initiative 4 if you equip them with two close combat weapons. the problem with the penitent engine is, even if they survive long range attacks, in close combat, the modals with initiative 4 has a good chance of popping it before the engine even gets a chance to attack
So I am starting to think there could be a use for minimum size repentia squads to walk up behind the immos out of LoS. When your sister get out and nuke stuff the repentias can charge in to bail them out. Now that your sister units (you know you are taking priests, just admit it) are practically impossible to kill efficiently in assault you can hold an enemy unit up long enough for something to bail them out.
I understand people's misapprehension at the repentia's possibly not getting to swing but I think they usually will with their 3+ FnP just keep them away from S6 A5+ units and you should be able to get some use out of them.
So I got a lovely box from the war store today labeled "Your reinforcements have arrived" (hah, thanks Neal!) and I am now busily converting up my Protectorate troops into proper ladies of the god emperor.
dadakkaest wrote:So how do you get them across the table without getting popped?
pretre wrote:You don't.
With at least 3, they stand a reasonable chance of getting 1-2 into combat (more likely 1).
With 9+, you stand a reasonable chance of getting at least half into the enemy lines to start ripping stuff up.
Just 1 is really not worth it, it will die.
KalashnikovMarine wrote: So I got a lovely box from the war store today labeled "Your reinforcements have arrived" (hah, thanks Neal!) and I am now busily converting up my Protectorate troops into proper ladies of the god emperor.
Which menites did you go for? I was thinking of using some but couldn't find any that I could see working (I had also considered mantid's Basile's, which do seem viable).
pretre wrote: .
To be fair, they didn't really nerf them. They just didn't make them better. They've never been good. :(
I'm inclined to say it's a pretty serious nerf on Repentia, and a minor but unecessary one on penitent Engines.
A one round 3+ FnP in combat isn't all the useful. Sure, before the update I'd lose a Repentia or two in assault and if the "hail mary swing" faith thing didn't go off it was sad, but losing Reps in cc was never an issue. If they were in CC, things were golden. You could lose half the unit before they could swing and still blend the enemy. It's getting them INTO combat that's tough, and as far as getting them there the 6++/5+ FnP was a necessity.
And they were downright survivable back when they had a 6++/4+ FnP and could assault out of a stopped rhino. They were a terror. They've fallen further and further, and as of now I have 30 of them I don't know how to use... they are almost back to the mess they were in the Witch hunters codex. Even in 6th I could run them up behind screening Seraphim and Penitent engines and count on doing some damage. They always outdid my conclaves, at the very least. I just can't picture how to make them work now, even in masses.
Penitent Engines are... ok. They have always been ok. They worked well in concert with Repentia, because that was just too much blender heading down the field. On their own they can do fair. Squadron them up, rotate the least damaged to the front each turn, and hug cover. Bad opponents will shoot everything at them the first few turns and that helps you a lot. Good opponents will ignore them the first few turns and let you get close, which pretty often means you get an assault out of it, and at the least a lot of guns pointing their way right when your other units are getting into dangerous positions.
The PE/Repentia combo was good when the WD dropped. It was weird, but it worked well - the glory days of sending massed penitent Engines, 3 rhino full of Repentia and a uriah conclave right into enemy lines while Kyrinov made your backfield fearless. Delicious.
I'm not seeing much discussion - positive, negative, nerfy, , whatever - about death cult. I'm surprised as they were (imo) always a cracking little shock unit in 5th, although the (relative) demise of assault in 6th I don't see them really cutting it. Thoughts?
dadakkaest wrote:So how do you get them across the table without getting popped?
pretre wrote:You don't.
With at least 3, they stand a reasonable chance of getting 1-2 into combat (more likely 1).
With 9+, you stand a reasonable chance of getting at least half into the enemy lines to start ripping stuff up.
Just 1 is really not worth it, it will die.
I agree in principle. Giving your opponent problems of target saturation may help keep threm alive long enough to reach the enemy but even if they manage to make it into assault theres a chance they could fail to strike as their only I3. Not forgetting that 9 of them comes in at over 700 pts and your denying yoyr army exorcist support. If i had 9 i'd try it, hell I might even pick up 1 more and try 3 but I don't think they'll be regulars in my list due to how unreliable they are.
dadakkaest wrote:So how do you get them across the table without getting popped?
pretre wrote:You don't.
With at least 3, they stand a reasonable chance of getting 1-2 into combat (more likely 1).
With 9+, you stand a reasonable chance of getting at least half into the enemy lines to start ripping stuff up.
Just 1 is really not worth it, it will die.
I agree in principle. Giving your opponent problems of target saturation may help keep threm alive long enough to reach the enemy but even if they manage to make it into assault theres a chance they could fail to strike as their only I3. Not forgetting that 9 of them comes in at over 700 pts and your denying yoyr army exorcist support. If i had 9 i'd try it, hell I might even pick up 1 more and try 3 but I don't think they'll be regulars in my list due to how unreliable they are.
D
Yeah, but then, I never really intended to use Exorcists, just Penitent Engines and Repentia.
And so far when playing, there's been 6-8 very murdery units charging fulll tilt towards the other guy, and they don't know what to do about it, meaning a reasonable ammount can make it there, and they will invaribly murder their first target.
It's after those first targets that things start getting a little more uncertain.
Maybe buy a squad of Rets and an Exorcist at some point, and a Vindicator to convert to Sisters icons/colours and homebrew in, but otherwise, just maxed Penitents.
Then, use homebrew characters that let you take even more Penitent Engines (Elite, Fast Attack) and Repentia as troops.
inmygravenimage wrote: I'm not seeing much discussion - positive, negative, nerfy, , whatever - about death cult. I'm surprised as they were (imo) always a cracking little shock unit in 5th, although the (relative) demise of assault in 6th I don't see them really cutting it. Thoughts?
I like them but its slightly anooying they are only power swords now - I keep looking at them but not managed to fit them in yet
Sorry if it came up but just a wouln't it be nice comment.
Wouldn't it be nice if gw sold dom and ret squads with 4 of one weapon type!!!!!
I have been playing since they first came outbut if i was a newbie i would be losing it!!!
canadianguy wrote: Sorry if it came up but just a wouln't it be nice comment.
Wouldn't it be nice if gw sold dom and ret squads with 4 of one weapon type!!!!!
I have been playing since they first came outbut if i was a newbie i would be losing it!!!
Unless they've changed something the sister squads that GW sells are the same price as the individual models that make it up. You can buy each special weapon you want seperately and it works out the same. Still $12 a model at best. Pricing out all the extra special weapons and immos I need thanks to the new changes is making me cringe.
I was just glancing through quickly as I like the simulacrum models. Not going to like the outlay for 10 or 12 lol.
Sad as well out of my 70 redemptionist/priest models only one has a plasma gun :-(
I am liking the overall focus of the list, it is the churches army so nice to see priests linked in.
Spamming immo is fine. Really looking 3 exo or 2 an my easy bake or crematorium for the damned. I have 4 daughters and trust me those easy bake ovens are brutal!
I guess the biggest disapointments for me are the repentia and p engines. I was hoping for inquisitor hq option with raider transport. I honestly fely aa wasn't coming as I feel the want to force guard allies in. I do think we can get enough aa through TLMM and our exorcists.
KalashnikovMarine wrote: So I got a lovely box from the war store today labeled "Your reinforcements have arrived" (hah, thanks Neal!) and I am now busily converting up my Protectorate troops into proper ladies of the god emperor.
Which menites did you go for? I was thinking of using some but couldn't find any that I could see working (I had also considered mantid's Basile's, which do seem viable).
I picked up the following:
a box of Daughters of the Flame for use as DCA counts as (Two stabby things, check. Light non-powered armor, check, female, check)
Feora Priestess of the Flame - Epic mode, head canon says her bulky torso armor lets her hulk out power mace style. Will of course depend how WYSIWYG my opponent is.
Nicia Tear of Vengenace - Priestess with Eviscerator
Thyra, Protector of the Flame - Priestess with Power Weapon and Da Book.
I also picked up a Cygnar hero, Major Katherine Laddermore in her Dragoon box. I have no real use for her in my army as I can't think of a model she would do a good job as a counts as for, but I'm doing a little converting and painting her up as a Sororitas knight any way.
Got 1 exorcist, 2 Immos (now have three of each to build in addition to finished ones), Repentia's and Arcos's which I've never used before and 6x HF, 4x HB and more. Most from GW & some from eBay.
First game with new rules tomorrow, as GK allies but most points spent on the Sisters. Against Nurgle as it looks.
I got my 2 Immolators and Jacobus in yesterday. I also convinced another player buying rhinos to buy immolators instead so that I can magnetize two rhinos with the Immolator sprue bringing me up to 6 Immolators.
Already hvae 3 Exorcists and 3 PEs. I need more Melta Guns, but I gotta save some pennies for that (SO EXPENSIVE). I already have 3 MM, 3 HF, 4 Melta, 8 Flamer. I proxy frequently and opponents don't care after I tell them my special weapon mini costs $12+.
Luckily I have a collection of the Sisters of Sigmar. BAM. Ecclesiarch Priest with Power Maces! It's Bonkin' time!
I invested in 3 more repressors (got to have that AV13), and as I can now run smaller (thus more) squads I brought another 3 immolators and more meltas/flamers/HF/HB to flesh out my squads (another 18 or so, ouch!). Everything else I have in abundance. Also brought a Valkyre that I'm going to convert to an Avenger.
Trying them with GK Inquisitor allies next, I know adding in IG Plasma Vets and a Russ Squadron fills in obvious gaps from my previous games but I'm hoping GK works as well.
I am currently converting a rhino into a immo and have a NOS immo ready to go and I have one built and painted already. I have jut enough for 3 squads of dominions but I usually run a squad of Angels so I'll have at least one spare for 5 girl squad.
I also am thinking of using a 5 girl squad in a rhino and flaming squads out of the two fire points. I was going to go bare bones just the 5 girls a flamer and a heavy flamer and nothing else. Should work out to about 115 pts for some drive by flaming
List wise I think I'm going to focus everything on a 20 girl blob with a conclave, then use my two immos to move either MSU or Dominions to do damage to large things I want dead, rhinos to move 10 girl squads to keep mobile and aggressive and seize objectives behind the dominions and seraphim/celestine (when she's in play). Two Exorcists for fire support, with heavy bolter Rets manning a quad gun for anti-flier and fire base detail.
Might try to convert up an Avenger for some air cover...
Getting ready to put some paint on my unpainted models- an exorcist/immolator, four sisters with boltguns,seraphim, seraphim superior (ps/bp), flamer, melta, imagifer, superior (ps/bolter). I just now noticed that the Superior with Power Maul has some sort of second, underslung barrel! Anyone know what that's about? Looks like I could make a combi-weapon with some of those old metal Obliterator bits I have around.
Yeah, I printed the pertinent pages for gaming, but sooner or later I'm gonna hafta to print the whole thing. Good to know it won't be expensive, at least.
So, the exorcist does not come with instructions, but does come with the bits for making an immolator.
I have a bare bones chassis, so now I have two immolators (got one a bit ago with 40-ish Sisters) and an exorcist, when it's built (painting it is gonna be a hassle, I just know it.)
Also using some Reaper miniatures for priests and Superiors, cuz why not. Also looked up the forgeworld price for an Avenger Strike Fighter. 140 bucks. Yikes.
One thing I've noticed already is that Sisters last a lot longer on the field than my orks. When I lose with my orks (which is all but once so far) it's pretty obvious from the start I'm borked. But with Sisters, I feel like I have a chance, even if I only have a few units left. I'm not sure why, but I like it. A lot.
KalashnikovMarine wrote: Blegh. I'm really frustrated. My Condemnor conversion efforts are not going well.
Do what I did. Take a fantasy bow. Cut in half, put one half of each bow arm on the sides of a bolter. Bam done. Put and arrow on top if you're feeling fancy.
Amerikon wrote: Sweet! How are the castings? Do the parts fit well? I'm still waiting on mine.
I meant that those will be repressors, btw.
So far the pieces look good. They are heavy as all hell. Plenty of flash to clean. I had one miscast/broken piece on a dozer. I am going to wash and pin the major pieces to make them solid. It'll be a while though since Repressors aren't high on my list right now.
Yeah... that seems to be about the only real functioning method to do that at this point. Which annoys me... if we had plastics it'd be cake to marry a cross bow to a Godwin-De'az pattern bolter... or vice versa if you're feeling saucy.
If you were to turn their SCS in to a counter-charge unit (with the Canoness having a Blade of Admonition attached to that unit), what kind of power weapons you equip them with?
I know there are various kinds of power weapons available in sixth, each with different kinds of stats. Would a power lance equipped squad be the most useful on a counter-charge unit, for example, due to its increased strength on the charge while still fighting at initiative?
Swords are AP3, but you're strength 3, that's not very good.
Axes make you Str4, AP2, but then you strike last.
Lances make you Str4, AP3 on the charge, and Str3 AP4 otherwise.
How about the BoA for Canoness, plus power axes for the Celestians then? The Canoness challenging any powerfist/powerklaw holders in the enemy squad, while the power axe holders hew away at the squad itself, using a priest to reroll armor saves?
Melissia wrote: Wouldn't that make maces very weak against MEQ?
It is slightly worse against MEQ, but better against everything else, especially TEQs.
A Celestian with a Power Sword base (2A) will do 0.33 wounds against MEQ. Same with a Mace is 0.22 wounds.
But vs Terminators say, it'll be 0.11 wounds with the mace, or 0.056 with the sword.
And 'total average' (against all targets), it's 0.195 wounds with the sword, or 0.292 with the mace.
Melissia wrote: It is slightly worse against MEQ, but better against everything else, especially TEQs.
A Celestian with a Power Sword base (2A) will do 0.33 wounds against MEQ. Same with a Mace is 0.22 wounds.
But vs Terminators say, it'll be 0.11 wounds with the mace, or 0.056 with the sword.
And 'total average' (against all targets), it's 0.195 wounds with the sword, or 0.292 with the mace.
Is that with Toughness 4? How about the power axe given they likely will be striking second anyway?
Melissia wrote: It is slightly worse against MEQ, but better against everything else, especially TEQs.
A Celestian with a Power Sword base (2A) will do 0.33 wounds against MEQ. Same with a Mace is 0.22 wounds.
But vs Terminators say, it'll be 0.11 wounds with the mace, or 0.056 with the sword.
And 'total average' (against all targets), it's 0.195 wounds with the sword, or 0.292 with the mace.
Is that with Toughness 4? How about the power axe given they likely will be striking second anyway?
Yes, both base Str3, 2A, vs T4, 3+Sv.
An Axe will do about 0.5 wounds against Marines, and 0.243 wounds 'total average'.
Mr Morden wrote: Is that with Toughness 4? How about the power axe given they likely will be striking second anyway?
Don't forget that this is intended as a counter-charge unit, and the Canoness' Act of Faith (granting Hatred, IIRC).
Yeah but you are still I3, Hatred gets you re-rolls to hit in the first round but nothng gets you +1 I :( so unless fighting Guard / Orks still going to strike last?
Melissia wrote: How about the BoA for Canoness, plus power axes for the Celestians then? The Canoness challenging any powerfist/powerklaw holders in the enemy squad, while the power axe celestians hew away at the squad itself, using a priest to reroll armor saves?
Ugh. This thread is really making want to go out and buy a load of Superiors to make into a Command Squad, even though I have a priest and a Rhino to finish up. :-/
On a related note, been toying with the idea of running a SCS with plasma pistols and power weapons, since the model I'd most like to represent them with is holding one, and having use of plasma all game seems useful. Would setup have any merit, or is it simply too terrible to use?
Also, some more glossary terms for the Sisters would be ueful.
Troike wrote: Ugh. This thread is really making want to go out and buy a load of Superiors to make into a Command Squad, even though I have a priest and a Rhino to finish up. :-/
On a related note, been toying with the idea of running a SCS with plasma pistols and power weapons, since the model I'd most like to represent them with is holding one, and having use of plasma all game seems useful. Would setup have any merit, or is it simply too terrible to use?
Also, some more glossary terms for the Sisters would be ueful.
Not sure its worth it to have both Power weapon and plasma pistol rather than some with Meltan guns and others with Power weapons - but could be wrong as lost my first two games :(
I had my first decent sized game with the new codex tonight. 1000 pts, vs Eldar. Got tabled at the bottom of turn 6.
I had an amazing first round, dominions performed wonderfully. Their changes are as excellent in practice as they are on paper. Didn't matter in the end though, once his warp spiders and war walkers came in from reserve it all went down hill. My Exorcist popped at the bottom of turn 3. It had fired a grand total of 4 missiles by that point.
shadowsfm wrote: in my experience, its the limited acts of faith that is the greatest challenge to overcome in this army
With the WD 'dex, i just tended to burn all my faith points on my HB rets every turn..... Now that that option is gone i'm looking forward to actually using AoF with other units.
One AoF per unit does sound rubbish on paper but I think it can be made to work: Namely by spamming lots of small suicide squads (in MM immo's natch) and getting in my opponents face as quickly as possible.
Would have been great if the Martyrdom rule allowed all units in your army to make an extra AoF..... I miss my Palatine faith pinatas from 5th
I think I like the new AoF honestly. Already in the 2 games I've had the chance to use them it's gone so much smoother than the old system. The consistency and improved usefulness of basic sisters squads is a big plus in my book too.
Speaking of basic squads, how is everyone equipping them now/running them/finding necessary?
Do you think the MSU and Immo spam squads require a priest, or can they get away with just a VSS upgrade?
KelCJ wrote: I think I like the new AoF honestly. Already in the 2 games I've had the chance to use them it's gone so much smoother than the old system. The consistency and improved usefulness of basic sisters squads is a big plus in my book too.
Speaking of basic squads, how is everyone equipping them now/running them/finding necessary?
Do you think the MSU and Immo spam squads require a priest, or can they get away with just a VSS upgrade?
I'm still waiting for my first game but I'm thinking getting those priests in the small BSS squads is worthwhile, it's very easy to lose 2 bodies even with something as simple as your transport popping so with the priest you don't have to worry about running awsy and can keep pushing forward and hopefully getting a delivery on those special weapons.
I'm planning on running a few different size squads: 1 blob with Jaco and a priest, 1 nine women and priest in a rhimo and 2 x five women squads in MM immos with a priest in each (if points allow). I haven't finalised in my mind their exact roles - but aggressive forward pushing will be the go to in most missions I reckon.
Running troops with bolters always seemed to work for me in the last Dex, I'm also loving the new opportunities for maxing flamers and meltas in SCS and dominions. This also means I actually have to think about what HQ to take - shocker!
Like Quo I only run a single exorcist these days. Prefer getting my rhinos and CC specialists up close! War hymns really are amazing.
KalashnikovMarine wrote: Eeesh. That's no good Quo. So do you feel it was a codex thing? A weakness in your list somewhere? Or just some terrible rolls?
Also what was your list?
I feel it is a codex thing. Not so much a weakness in AS but, gawd, eldar are so damn strong right now. Compared to Eldar, sisters are too frail, too immobile and too short range.
I had a few bad rolls but just as many brilliant ones. My worst rolls were the exorcist's number of missile rolls. 1, 1, and 2. Next would be Celestine's Look out, Sir! rolls. I had two opportunities to roll LOS, rolled 1 both times. Both shots were from star cannons, so, you know. Instant death. Twice.
My List:
Spoiler:
Celestine
BSS with 1 flamer, 1 heavy flamer, melta bombs and a rhino.
BSS with 1 flamer, 1 heavy flamer
Dominion squad with 4 meltas, combi-melta, TLMM Immo.
Dominion squad with 4 meltas, combi-melta, TLMM Immo.
Seraphim squad with 2 double inferno pistols (keep reading before you rage)
Exorcist behind an ADL.
Oddities are due to either model limitations or strategies I've adapted to combat my eldar opponent who I play frequently.
No, I didn't bring priests, and no, I don't regret it. The only time I had a squad fail a morale check (besides one AoF), it was actually helpful. The fall back move put a squad of dominions further away from the wraithlord who was preparing to charge. He made his charge roll anyway though. On the other hand, a battle conclave with a priest might have been able to hold off the avatar. Probably even kill it.
I've had a lot of success with IP seraphim. Deep striking meltas is one of the few strategies I've found to combat eldar mobility. Dominions are pretty sweet, and even more so now, but in my experience they get one and only one chance to make a difference. Seraphim on the other hand can continue to chase targets around the table. They work wonders vs Crisis suits too. They can keep up with the JSJ shenanigans and the IPs inflict instant death. Yeah, the inferno pistols are over-priced and yeah, they're only 6 inches, but I feel they definitely have a niche. And in this case, they killed the wraith lord, so they made their points back plus some. The other reason I like IP seraphim is that they're one of only a few units in my codex that my eldar opponent is afraid of. When they land in his back line he gets a little panicky and sometimes slips up. I've had them completely stall his momentum on a number of occasions. I'm fond of deep striking Celestine too for the same reason.
His List, as best as I can remember.
Spoiler:
Avatar of Khaine (immune to meltas and flamers, ugh)
8 vanilla dire avengers in a wave serpent (not sure on WS loadout. Doesn't matter, it died top of turn 1)
5 vanilla dire avengers
5 (6?) vanilla warp spiders.
Wraith Lord with star cannons and ghost sword thing.
squad of 3 war walkers with star cannons (outflanking)
I feel like I'm forgetting something.
He won the roll off and elected to go second. We were playing long sides, so I felt outflanking the dominions was too risky. Since I deployed first, only one dominion squad was in range of something juicy. They popped the wave serpent with no trouble. The explosion killed 3 of the 8 dire avengers inside. The other dominion squad couldn't get to any hard targets, so instead they wiped out the other dire avenger squad.
Turn two, the seraphim and warp spiders came in. I was hoping for the seraphim on round 3 or 4 to counter the war walkers, oh well. Seraphim mishapped, he placed them in the far corner. Not too big a deal, honestly. Without the war walkers on the table they didn't have a great target, except the wraithlord whom they killed on the way back. The warp spiders came in right where they needed to be, killed 3 of 5 girls in a sister squad and then survived shots from that half squad plus another squad of 5 sisters (flamers only got a hit or two a piece) who made it into range thanks to their rhino. On the subsequent rounds, the warp spiders jumped around shooting my tanks up the ass with S7 assault 2 guns. 2d6+6 inches in the movement phase, re-rollable d6 inch combat focus move in the shooting phase, and 2d6 inch jump move in the assault phase means these guys can go wherever they want. And unless your vehicles have their rear armor up against a wall (which my exorcist did) they're boned. Warp spiders are really really good.
By the time the war walkers came in, my immos were craters, my dominions had been eaten by MCs, and the exorcist was just not pulling its weight (again, 4 missiles total, some missed, some failed to wound). War walkers smashed celestine's face in, (roll of 1 on LOS) and killed half her seraphim with 12 S6 AP2 shots. Next round celestine got back up, finished off his last troop and then died hilariously again to another volley from the war walkers. Avatar killed the exorcist wtih his melta. My choice was either take the melta and hope the ADL saves me, or try to run and expose my rear armor to the warp spiders. The melta seemed safer, whoops. Avatar, war walkers and warp spiders finished off my troops. Game over.
The game was Big Guns Never Tire. I had first blood and 1 heavy support kill. He had Slay the Warlord, Line Breaker, 1 heavy support kill and 1 objective captured by his scoring (thanks to game type) war walkers. Final score 6 to 2.
shadowsfm wrote: in my experience, its the limited acts of faith that is the greatest challenge to overcome in this army
i think he needs more exorcists
I agree on both counts. I really felt starved for AoFs. Dominions used theirs to great effect in turn 1. But I had a BSS that really could have used preferred enemy more than once while chasing warp spiders around. Killing the warp spiders earlier might have made the difference, honestly.
As for the single exorcist, it's currently a model limitation. I LOVE the piano, and have no interest in a whirlwind proxy or any other for that matter. But god, that exorcist model is a pain. I dunno about you guys, but the molding on mine was awful. I spent hours and hours filing mold lines and flash.
For a single exorcist 1d6 just isn't reliable. 3d6 on the other hand. . . .
Yeah, I finally ran into an Eldar power list this weekend. 3 Wave serpents, two riptides, a bunch of crisis suits with a farseer on a jetbike attached.
It was at a local event and against a guy I am friends with. I called it halfway through turn 1, it was that bad. To top it off, it was a kill points mission. It was so miserable of an experience that I don't even know if I want to go to any more tournaments because I know my local meta is going to run similar lists.
However, these new sisters continue to dominate power armor lists. I steam rolled through a chaos list before that.
@Quo you must of been lucky with that wave serpent, it has a 5/6 chance of down grading every pen to a glance. Then he could of premeasured to be 36'' away from your deployment zone (Dominions can start 12 off board, scout, 6, move 6, get out 6, 6 inch melta range) and be relatively safe, did he know you where using dominions and just forget to premeasure? He probably should of started with Warwalkers on the table, they would of eaten a squad a turn with only the exorcist as a threat. He would want you to shoot missiles at them, because you can only kill one and it means those shots aren't going into more expensive Avatar.
Any way good game, it seems you had little chance due to him tailoring to beat your army. Against any other army, a single wave serpent would be bad and star cannons would be lacklustre. Against any other army the Avatar would be very fragile, but against and army that practically only uses melta to handle big foes? He's monstrous. Maybe try switch up the list (even with no models its possible with allies and the like) to turn his tailoring on himself
Played a 1500 pts friendly game at the local store on Sunday - defeated but better than last time
He had a mixture of Crimson Hunter Exarch, Spirit Seer, Wraithguard, Wraithknight, Wraith Lord, Wriath swords, some Bikes and an Autarch on the bike. He was not that conversent with the rules - in a nice way so we often went through them with him.
First shot of mine was the Exorcist into his bike unit with the Autarch at the front - I did give him the chance to Look out it and explained how that worked but he was happy to take it - so one dead Autarch. So that was good but felt a bit bad and eased up - which was a mistake.............
Melta and Missiles were otherwise very poor - you would think that AP1 S8 weapons hitting on 3's would be good but the sheer amount of misses etc was shocking - again. I would have def won with more agressive tactics and some better rolling - Ceestine mishpaed and then fluffed her charge rolls when she got back into the fight, then she chraged the bikers and got insta killed by a single non rending Shuriken cannon hit on overwatch. The only time I got 3 melta wounds his Wraith Kinght it saved all 3 with its shield.
Killed his Spirit Seer, the Wraith blades - Celestine slaughtered them, Wave serpent, half his Wraithguard and his bikers and lost 4-2 on VP
Played my silly 40 arco flagellant list against a foot chaos. My dice failed me for the first two turns but it didn't matter. In the end, the luck reversed as I got into hand to hand range and that was that.
Funny things: - Arcos just eat MEQ for lunch if they make it into hand to hand. With or without priests. They died in droves to shooting. I think of my 40 or so arcos and crusaders, about 10-12 made it into any sort of hand to hand. The ones that did? Holy crap. 5 attacks each, 3's and 3's to hit and wound. Poof, there goes a squad. - It totally wasn't worth putting priests in the arco squads, they should have been in Uriah's blob. - Don't forget to feed people your Superior before your priests. They are totally challenge bait. - Uriah's blob of sisters with priests (I only had 3 in there) ate the crap out of everything it touched. First turn, +1 attack and reroll practically everything. It was disgusting. They ate cultists, Lucius, a couple havoc squads and the last noise marine squad. - Acts of faith were easier and I used them much more. Everyone had used all their faith by the end of the game. It was great.
I personally won't be trying them however, my meta has a lot of Tau players and I am afraid they will fall short against a Tau gun line.
It's a silly list. But when you have 40-50 arcos, only one squad needs to make it there to just eat their line. I had one squad of one guy who ate an overwatch for Jacobus' blob which was hilarious.
Played 1850 vs Necrons on Sunday (2x wraiths, 2 Dlords, 3 barges, 2 units of deathmarks and 3 fliers).
Celestine is not worth her points in a Sisters blob, sadly. Jacobus's warlord trait synergizes so much better, and there is too much S6/7 ID floating around. The only real thing she brings to a unit is hit and run it seems, and I'd rather have the extra exorcist.
Speaking of which... 20 sisters with a simiulacrum, 5 priests (one must have litanies), and jacobus? F-ing insane. IN-SANE. They soak so much shooting, and with three turns of preferred enemy they can return it in kind. They munched 2 units of wraiths, a unit of deathmarks,and a barge. LOVE THEM
5 TLMM Immolators were not as much an answer to fliers as I was hoping -- between jinks and misses I did one glance to one croissant, plus they die very quickly. Still going to take them, as I think they are a better investment than rhinos, but I need to learn to play more defensively with them.
I am toying with a double blob list with IG allies, one group of Sisters led by Jacobus and priests, the other guard with Celestine. Sisters blob is stupidily killy with 4 smashing priests rerolling hits and wounds, IG blob still pulls Power Axe shenanigans but now has hit and run from Celestine. Not sure how it will work in practicality, but it sounds hilarious to me.
- Uriah's blob of sisters with priests (I only had 3 in there) ate the crap out of everything it touched. First turn, +1 attack and reroll practically everything. It was disgusting. They ate cultists, Lucius, a couple havoc squads and the last noise marine squad.
- Acts of faith were easier and I used them much more. Everyone had used all their faith by the end of the game. It was great.
Absolutely my experience as well. Glad to see it was not my dice being fluke-y.
Got my first game with the new book against a Black Templar player over the weekend. Here was the lists:
AS list
Uriah
Priest with melta bombs
5 BSS H.Flamer, Flamer, Bombs in MM immo
5 BSS H.Flamer, Flamer, Bombs in MM immo
5 Doms 4x melta, combi-melta, bombs, in MM immo
5 Doms 4x melta, combi-melta, bombs, in MM immo
5 Doms 4x melta, combi-melta, bombs, in MM immo
Exorcist
Exorcist
Exorcist
And for the fun of it, 10 repentia
His list
Big assult character on bike, artificer armor, relic - storm shield, relic blade
Vindicator
Land Raider Redeemer
tac squad (10) with melta and plasma and an emperors champ in Raider
tac squad (10) with melta and plasma in rhino
tac squad (10) with melta and plasma in rhino
tac squad (10) with plasma and rocket launcher
5 scouts with sniper rifles
We played the kill points mission on the corner-to-corner board and he got the roll to set up first. Threw his raider, biker commander and demolisher on my right and the rhinos on the left. A building in the center held the snipers and the psudo-heavy weapons squad.
I decided that outflanking was probably the correct thing to do, but wanted to be silly aggressive so I scouted instead. Threw all 3 of my dom squads towards the land raider and demolisher. Had my repentia heading towards the rhinos and a nice little firebase in the back with my exorcists. BSS squads kinda hung out and fiddled.
Tried to steal initiative and succeeded!
Turn 1
Spoiler:
Sisters turn 1
Guess being aggressive pays off sometimes. So I pushed the scouts further up the field and all the doms jumped out. My opponent said something like “so… they ALL have melta then?!? Yikes” shifted the repentia up the field and the sisters slid up the field as well. Opened fire with an amazing amount of S8 AP1 shots and blew up the raider and the demolisher. Took pot shots at other things but that was the main thing at that point. His biker took a bunch of shots but he rolled his storm shield well.
BT turn 1
Enraged at the loss of his ride his heavies took aim and managed to miss the immolator in the center of the field. He also decided to jump one of the tac squads out of its rhino to take shots at a dom squad. The rhinos and the one squad inside took shots at the repentia. They are silly easy to kill btw. He also charged the center of the field immolator with the de-raidered tac squad and beat on it until it fell over. The biker charged a squad of doms and killed the superior.
Turn 2
Spoiler:
Sisters turn 2.
I pushed forward with my BSS squads and continued my needlessly aggressive stance. Jumped both BSS units out to torch the conveniently clustered tac squad next to the broken immolator. It was almost a guarantee that the biker would kill one of them next turn, but I didn’t really care. Shooting saw a rhino get immobilized, the squad that killed the immolator got burned to a crisp then buried by melta shots. I used one of the dom squads to clear up some of the heavy weapons squad that was in the ruined building. Their faith helped as AP1 + no cover is really nice. Hand to hand saw the end of the biker’s dom squad, he inched closer to the BSS squad. I believe I also assaulted the non-imobilized rhino. Needless to say it didn’t go well for the rhino and the 20 or so repentia attacks blew the thing to pieces. Took a couple repentia with it though.
BT turn 2.
The heavies took shots at an immolator but failed to dent it. The recently de-rhinoed squad shot up the repentia and reduced them to the priest and a single repentia. The other tac squad ran over, shot then assaulted one of the remaining dom squads killing them outright. The biker shot the superior then charged into combat with the BSS squad. Wall of fire took a wound from him. He then proceeded to miss with his attacks so we sat their looking at each other.
Turn 3
Spoiler:
Sisters turn 3.
Repentia charged the remaining rhino (immobilized one) and blew it to its heretical pieces. The priest jumped in front of the blast knowing that his faith would protect him (and it did), everything else shot the remaining tac squad and the ‘heavy’ squad. I was in cleanup mode at this point as I did not believe he had much left that could hurt my armor. The biker assault did nothing and we sat their looking at each other.
BT turn 3.
He shot down the remaining repentia and priest. If I do this type of unit again I’m going to go with flagellants. Biker finally took out the BSS squad. He unleashed everything else he had as Uriah’s unit and removed the battle sisters due to amazingly poor rolling on my armor saves.
The rest of the game.
Spoiler:
Now that the biker was in the open I shot him with every S8 AP1 shot I had and killed him dead (Yea, I’m sticking with that sentence as it stands). I hid Uriah in an immolator and slowly proceeded to remove the rest of his units with all the S8 AP1
Summery and thoughts on the game:
I find myself worrying about not having enough flamers in the list. I won’t be taking repentia again for a while as they were frankly awful. I was afraid to even charge anything as they would be totaled by practically anything. I’ll stick with flagellants as they are cheaper and have Feel No Pain all the time. I’ll get more BSS squads for the next game, clearly I needed to have more of the little flamer squads in immos.
Model-wise I ran some proxies that need changed. I ordered a couple immos the other day and I’ll need to paint them up. I really need to find some melta armed sisters as I only actually have 4 of them right now. That needs to change because the alpha strike with doms is amazing! You can easily de-mech almost anything in the first 2 turns and the doms are such a threat that the BSS (SCORING!) squads are totally ignored.
I’m thinking that the 1, 2 punch of melta followed by flamers is the way I’ll set up the list. Seems to work well and I can see some success in that build. The exorcists did well at killing anything on the field. They’re almost always good, but I’m still considering doing the flamer box…… we’ll see on that one. I don’t have enough heavy flamers to outfit more than 5 BSS with heavy flamers so I would have to reduce most of them to 2x normal flamers if I did the Burnerrets (I like BurnerRets better than easy bake oven)
We were both getting use to new lists so it was a bit of a struggle remembering what all of the things in the lists do. Things have changed, but I do believe that AS can make a very nice take all comers list.
A couple things I may try in the near future are:
10 Doms with 4x melta, combi-plasma, in a rhino. Shooting those cowardly marines in the building was nice. Having more shots could really be good.
Pen engine squad of 3. Here's my thinking on this unit. Noone will care about them because of all of the S8 AP1 all over the field. If they use their high strength shots on the Pen Engines then i'll be able to use my immolators and exorcists more. If they don't, then the damage from the dom's will already be done and the Pen Engines will be able to clear out all of the pesky foot troops fairly easily with their 2x H.flamers. I suspect I will not do much charging with them as I find their hand to hand ability suspect given all of the krak out there. Situation dependent of course. 80 pts for 2x heavy flamers that only move 6 isn't all that great though...... Idk, we'll see. It does give my opponent a huge target to waste his shots at.
Priests? I'm not sure if they'll have a place in my list. Hand to hand is not something I want to gear towards and the BSS tend to get wiped more than they get reduced. We'll see what happens with the Condemner bolt gun debates for that one. I don't want my game to get bogged down in rules discussions so I won't use them (C. Bolt guns that is) for now.
I have noticed that Sisters don't fair very well in assault, mostly because of their low Toughness and Strength. When you overcome those, they tend to fair better.
From everything everyone's posted here, the old multi-purpose BSS load-out of one melta & one flamer is dead, dead, dead. I presume that's because Dominion squads with four ignores-cover meltas are just too good at killing tanks for you to need any more melta-armed infantry, so you specialize the BSS in crisping enemy foot troops instead?
BSS with Meltas can still work. Their act of faith is decent at getting their hits off, but I much prefer flamers on them.
You are removing one point of failure from the equation by not having to roll to hit and with a heavy flamer (and preferred enemy), you're almost guaranteed that all your hits are wounding.
I find that my opponents don't like small sister squads moving up with flamers and will focus a lot of fire on an otherwise rather cheap unit. This allows me to get my other elements into place.
Model-wise I ran some proxies that need changed. I ordered a couple immos the other day and I’ll need to paint them up. I really need to find some melta armed sisters as I only actually have 4 of them right now.
I am one of the worst when it comes to conversions, but I did find one that works out fairly well for this. Take the BSS model of the sister pulling a grenade pin out with her teeth while holding the boltgun down in her left hand. You can snip the bolter off completely and swap in a meltagun fairly easily.
Given that I have way more BSS than I will ever need, this was a much cheaper solution than buying more meltagun sisters at $12 a pop.
war wrote:I find myself worrying about not having enough flamers in the list. I won’t be taking repentia again for a while as they were frankly awful. I was afraid to even charge anything as they would be totaled by practically anything.
Something I noticed, is that the 3+FnP is for the entire phase, so activated before the charge.
While there's a risk you'll have activated it and not make it, it makes you quite resilient to Overwatch.
pretre wrote: Sisters aren't good at assault, but anyone can be good at assault if they reroll all hits, reroll all wounds, reroll all missed saves.
them being bad in assaults is a deception. all them rerolls really help, until they run out of acts of faith, then they are screwed. i'm hoping in the next codex they have infinite acts of faith
i'm not convinced the right units have the right acts of faith. i'm wishing the canoness was more well rounded with prefered enemy, battle sisters have shoot through cover, dominions had shred, and seraphim had hatred (or something)
Yea, I hate cutting the metals too much. I think that what i'll do is just slowly pick them up when I have some money at the end of the month or something. At this stage I've given up on rushing to run out and buy everything all at once. Far too much on my painting desk now anyway.
Green is Best! wrote: It was at a local event and against a guy I am friends with. I called it halfway through turn 1, it was that bad. To top it off, it was a kill points mission. It was so miserable of an experience that I don't even know if I want to go to any more tournaments because I know my local meta is going to run similar lists..
There is a reason that the top tables in big events are full of those lists.
There are a few things that make that completely broken. GW could fix a lot of that problem fast by not allowing ICs to join riptides. (like ICs cannot join any other MCs)
war wrote: I think i'm missing something. Tau IC's can join riptides? I thought that IC's couldn't join single figure units. What lets them join riptides?
If you put a missile drone with it, then it's no longer a one-model-only unit, which skirts that requirement, letting you take say, an ecm commander for bs5 drones, ignores cover, enrolls and such.
shadowsfm wrote:them being bad in assaults is a deception. all them rerolls really help, until they run out of acts of faith, then they are screwed. i'm hoping in the next codex they have infinite acts of faith
Umm. Hymns of War is unlimited use which is what grants them most of the rerolls.
war wrote:Yea, I hate cutting the metals too much. I think that what i'll do is just slowly pick them up when I have some money at the end of the month or something. At this stage I've given up on rushing to run out and buy everything all at once. Far too much on my painting desk now anyway.
Pro-tip for converting melta sisters without cutting up a model.
Take a heavy sister without the heavy weapon.
Get a blister of GW's meltas.
Affix melta to right arm.
Find a gloved hand from any other mini and put it on the left arm (I use Warzone troopers, since they are cheap and I have a bunch).
Not a bad idea, I do have a heavy body laying around.
Riptides... yea, thats just wrong. Clearly win-at-all-cost mentality. (well, clear to me at least. Lucky for me, mine's the only opinion that matters :-) )
If you use him, and are planning on using his warlord trait... then you cannot take either Celestine or a Canoness or otherwise he cannot be your warlord.
Celestine and Seraphims are such a decent tool to have in your box so I am not sure about how well they work together.
war wrote: I think i'm missing something. Tau IC's can join riptides? I thought that IC's couldn't join single figure units. What lets them join riptides?
If you put a missile drone with it, then it's no longer a one-model-only unit, which skirts that requirement, letting you take say, an ecm commander for bs5 drones, ignores cover, enrolls and such.
I really wish drone upgrades would get treated as Wargear again just to solve that issue. Plus the darned thing is -still- an MC and has restrictions on what it can be a "unit" with. Just look at Tyrant Guard who need a special rule to get around that.
If you use him, and are planning on using his warlord trait... then you cannot take either Celestine or a Canoness or otherwise he cannot be your warlord.
Celestine and Seraphims are such a decent tool to have in your box so I am not sure about how well they work together.
Yep. I like that you need to make choices. 5++ is good, but I think that Celestine may be better. A blob with Celestine and Jacobus is just going to be crazy.
If you use him, and are planning on using his warlord trait... then you cannot take either Celestine or a Canoness or otherwise he cannot be your warlord.
Why would you. His warlord trait is marginal at best.
Now, Celestine....you can bank on her trait, and its a damn good one. It changes priest Hymn's from being semi-reliable to really reliable. (58.33% success) to (91.66% success)
Green is Best! wrote: Yeah, I finally ran into an Eldar power list this weekend. 3 Wave serpents, two riptides, a bunch of crisis suits with a farseer on a jetbike attached.
It was at a local event and against a guy I am friends with. I called it halfway through turn 1, it was that bad. To top it off, it was a kill points mission. It was so miserable of an experience that I don't even know if I want to go to any more tournaments because I know my local meta is going to run similar lists.
Yeah this is literally all I run into, People abusing fortune with farseers on jetbikes. Dark Eldar Beast Packs or whatever they are with rerollable invulnerable saves. Riptides for days with assault moves that put them out of LOS. I think most of my entire 2000 points of Orks killed 3 of the warp beasts and didn't even scratch one Riptide. 40k just seems like a waste of time for anyone but powergamers now.
war wrote: I think i'm missing something. Tau IC's can join riptides? I thought that IC's couldn't join single figure units. What lets them join riptides?
If you put a missile drone with it, then it's no longer a one-model-only unit, which skirts that requirement, letting you take say, an ecm commander for bs5 drones, ignores cover, enrolls and such.
I really wish drone upgrades would get treated as Wargear again just to solve that issue. Plus the darned thing is -still- an MC and has restrictions on what it can be a "unit" with. Just look at Tyrant Guard who need a special rule to get around that.
If I remember rightly, a Hive Tyrant isn't an IC anyway, which is why it needs the rule.
Thiugh I am tempted to put an ECM commander with my rupture for giggles,, being I've stopped really using suits (apart from my 1 riptide) but then I could only have 2 ethereals for sbiper drone/firewarrior support...
Maybe at 2k?
On a side note, I'm going to design some Condemned Boltguns for 3D printing for you guys.:p
Green is Best! wrote: Yeah, I finally ran into an Eldar power list this weekend. 3 Wave serpents, two riptides, a bunch of crisis suits with a farseer on a jetbike attached.
It was at a local event and against a guy I am friends with. I called it halfway through turn 1, it was that bad. To top it off, it was a kill points mission. It was so miserable of an experience that I don't even know if I want to go to any more tournaments because I know my local meta is going to run similar lists.
Yeah this is literally all I run into, People abusing fortune with farseers on jetbikes. Dark Eldar Beast Packs or whatever they are with rerollable invulnerable saves. Riptides for days with assault moves that put them out of LOS. I think most of my entire 2000 points of Orks killed 3 of the warp beasts and didn't even scratch one Riptide. 40k just seems like a waste of time for anyone but powergamers now.
Warmachine anyone?
The rerollable invuls both go down to Condemnors. The Riptides get eaten by Dominions and Exorcists. So what's the problem?
I like your enthusiasm, but riptides don't really get "eaten" by anything. They are huge fire sinks, and you are nearly always going to have to put an inordinate amount of firepower into them if you want to kill them outright.
Best thing to do is kill all your opponents marker lights/buffmander/farseer. Marker lights are doable, but removing the buffmander while he's attached to the riptide is no easy proposition. Farseer is going to be hard to nix too as they're generally mounted on the fastest jet bikes in the game and can hop from unit to unit to hide from you.
With sisters, I would avoid shooting at lone riptides entirely. If you're opponent happens to be play with the attached commander however, I would kill that unit at all costs. If your opponent is using the O'Vesa star, table flip is probably your only option.
But back to Sisters:
I love the idea of running retributors with 4 rending Heavy Flamers. I mean that is just a sick amount of damage. Anyone else think that unit is viable or is it a waste of a very valuable HS slot?
On paper they sound like a great idea but I don't see them as being that great of a threat. An easily destroyed transport can leave them out of range for the entire game.
I'm looking forward to replacing my HB ret squad with the FW flyer to replace their role as anti-air and anti-infantry.
An Avenger seems more and more to be a solid investment. Might have to look into modifying up one of those DA flyers. It have a big chain gun, that's close enough right?
Green is Best! wrote: Yeah, I finally ran into an Eldar power list this weekend. 3 Wave serpents, two riptides, a bunch of crisis suits with a farseer on a jetbike attached.
It was at a local event and against a guy I am friends with. I called it halfway through turn 1, it was that bad. To top it off, it was a kill points mission. It was so miserable of an experience that I don't even know if I want to go to any more tournaments because I know my local meta is going to run similar lists.
Yeah this is literally all I run into, People abusing fortune with farseers on jetbikes. Dark Eldar Beast Packs or whatever they are with rerollable invulnerable saves. Riptides for days with assault moves that put them out of LOS. I think most of my entire 2000 points of Orks killed 3 of the warp beasts and didn't even scratch one Riptide. 40k just seems like a waste of time for anyone but powergamers now.
Warmachine anyone?
find better people to play against My friends rarly play crazy power lists, most don't even look on the internet to see if something is better then something else, they build liss on themes and what seams like fun.
ALEXisAWESOME wrote: @Quo you must of been lucky with that wave serpent, it has a 5/6 chance of down grading every pen to a glance. Then he could of premeasured to be 36'' away from your deployment zone (Dominions can start 12 off board, scout, 6, move 6, get out 6, 6 inch melta range) and be relatively safe, did he know you where using dominions and just forget to premeasure? He probably should of started with Warwalkers on the table, they would of eaten a squad a turn with only the exorcist as a threat. He would want you to shoot missiles at them, because you can only kill one and it means those shots aren't going into more expensive Avatar.
Any way good game, it seems you had little chance due to him tailoring to beat your army. Against any other army, a single wave serpent would be bad and star cannons would be lacklustre. Against any other army the Avatar would be very fragile, but against and army that practically only uses melta to handle big foes? He's monstrous. Maybe try switch up the list (even with no models its possible with allies and the like) to turn his tailoring on himself
I got pretty lucky. Like I said it was a great turn one. I got one glance on him, the second hit penetrated, and he rolled a 1 on his bs shield. I had two more hits to roll, I think. Scouts deployed in a transport count as a tank, not infantry, so they get a 12 inch scout move, plus the wave serpent is 8 inches long or so. He had most of his army in one corner behind a large LOS blocking gate. The way I was deployed I'm not sure there was anywhere he could have deployed the wave serpent where I wouldn't have been in range with at least one dominion squad.
I find war walkers showing up late game to be devastating. They can pop in at optimal range, and by that time, everything I have that can kill them is already committed. They just mop up uncontested. Had they been on the table on turn 1, I probably would have gone for them over the wave serpent. Also they were deployed in a squadron of 3, I could have killed all of them at once. I'm not sure why he didn't do one squad of 2 and one squad of 1.
find better people to play against My friends rarly play crazy power lists, most don't even look on the internet to see if something is better then something else, they build liss on themes and what seams like fun.
Yeah that's how I play normally. Gotta enjoy the fluff or it's more like work than leisure. If the game is down to who can spend the most buying whatever army's rules are being abused right this second before the FAQ comes out, then where's the fun?
KalashnikovMarine wrote: An Avenger seems more and more to be a solid investment. Might have to look into modifying up one of those DA flyers. It have a big chain gun, that's close enough right?
find better people to play against My friends rarly play crazy power lists, most don't even look on the internet to see if something is better then something else, they build liss on themes and what seams like fun.
Yeah that's how I play normally. Gotta enjoy the fluff or it's more like work than leisure. If the game is down to who can spend the most buying whatever army's rules are being abused right this second before the FAQ comes out, then where's the fun?
Most sisters players arn't just jumping on the new boat Most of my players have several armies, and i don't think any of us have started a new army since the tau came out, minus me who has been slowly collecting sisters and havn't put them on the table yet.
Most sisters players arn't just jumping on the new boat Most of my players have several armies, and i don't think any of us have started a new army since the tau came out, minus me who has been slowly collecting sisters and havn't put them on the table yet.
Yeah I've got tons of sisters, just not enough immolator transports for the new codex and am kind of loath to spend another $300 on 40k, knowing for near certainty that the condemnor nerf is coming to return it to it's Grey Knights codex level of uselessness against competitive armies, while nothing whatsoever is coming to slow down the tau-dar/Screamerstar/Riptide spam rape trains for some time.
Most sisters players arn't just jumping on the new boat Most of my players have several armies, and i don't think any of us have started a new army since the tau came out, minus me who has been slowly collecting sisters and havn't put them on the table yet.
Yeah I've got tons of sisters, just not enough immolator transports for the new codex and am kind of loath to spend another $300 on 40k, knowing for near certainty that the condemnor nerf is coming to return it to it's Grey Knights codex level of uselessness against competitive armies, while nothing whatsoever is coming to slow down the tau-dar/Screamerstar/Riptide spam rape trains for some time.
I'm trying to work out a 1750 foot mob list and here's where I'm at so far:
Spoiler:
HQ St Celestine
5x Ministorum Priest
TROOPS BSS, 5 Women, Heavy Flamer, Flamer, SS w/ Combi-Flamer
BSS, 5 Women, Heavy Flamer, Flamer, SS w/ Combi-Flamer
BSS, 5 Women, Heavy Flamer, Flamer, SS w/ Combi-Flamer
BSS, 20 Women, Multi-Melta, Meltagun, Simulacrum
BSS, 20 Women, Multi-Melta, Meltagun, Simulacrum
FAST ATTACK Dominions, 6 Women, 4x Meltagun, VSS w/ Combi-Plasma, MM Immolator
Dominions, 6 Women, 4x Meltagun, VSS w/ Combi-Plasma, MM Immolator
HEAVY SUPPORT Exorcist
Exorcist
That comes to 1701, so I've got 49 points to spend and not sure what on. Any ideas?
Also, has anyone played with Condemnors yet? Should a TAC list just take condemnors for all the basic squads combi weapons? I have a certain affection for my combi-flamers and I'm hesitant to make the switch.
I am not a big fan of the eBook, and hope that GW will come out with a hard-book Codex.
Thanks in advance.
J
Fearless and Counterattack within 12"
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Amerikon wrote: I'm trying to work out a 1750 foot mob list and here's where I'm at so far:
Spoiler:
HQ St Celestine
5x Ministorum Priest
TROOPS BSS, 5 Women, Heavy Flamer, Flamer, SS w/ Combi-Flamer
BSS, 5 Women, Heavy Flamer, Flamer, SS w/ Combi-Flamer
BSS, 5 Women, Heavy Flamer, Flamer, SS w/ Combi-Flamer
BSS, 20 Women, Multi-Melta, Meltagun, Simulacrum
BSS, 20 Women, Multi-Melta, Meltagun, Simulacrum
FAST ATTACK Dominions, 6 Women, 4x Meltagun, VSS w/ Combi-Plasma, MM Immolator
Dominions, 6 Women, 4x Meltagun, VSS w/ Combi-Plasma, MM Immolator
HEAVY SUPPORT Exorcist
Exorcist
That comes to 1701, so I've got 49 points to spend and not sure what on. Any ideas?
Also, has anyone played with Condemnors yet? Should a TAC list just take condemnors for all the basic squads combi weapons? I have a certain affection for my combi-flamers and I'm hesitant to make the switch.
Litanies! If you're taking a foot mob, I would recommend fitting in Jacobus somewhere as well. Also, why the 5 girl squads without rides? they are going to die horribly. I think one big squad of 20 is more than enough. YOu put all five priests and Jacobus in there and just lol.
So drop the 20 entirely and use the points for Uriah and the rides for the 5 girl squads, imo. And litanies is required.
Amerikon wrote:
Also, has anyone played with Condemnors yet? Should a TAC list just take condemnors for all the basic squads combi weapons? I have a certain affection for my combi-flamers and I'm hesitant to make the switch.
I am still trying to figure out the right balance between Condemnors and Flamers/Melta/Plasma, but you want at least three Condemnors in any setting you think you'll meet up with Heralds or Warlock councils. Personally, I would rather have the backup shots just in case (so I run 5). I can come up with situations where I only have one chance to take out a 2++ psyker squad before they start getting locked in combat, so I want as many shots as possible. I cannot come up with similar scenarios needing a combi-flamer or melta. Your mileage will definitely vary though, depending on the lists you play against. For what its worth my first game with the new Sisters was against CronAir and I did not mind having the Condemnors - flamers would not have made any difference, melta MAYBE.
pretre wrote:
itanies is required.
One thousand times this. Have priests? Take Litanies! Remember it causes you to auto-pass preferred enemy in a Sisters blob (so simulacrum and Jacobus means 3 guaranteed phases of PE), and Celestine's Intervention if you run her with that squad.
Ok so I'm really trying to get it but I don't: Why are Priests the auto include everyone has made them to seem? The War Hymns are great but ONLY in the assault phase which is something that it seems SoB should avoid like the plague. Not to mention the fact that almost all of 40K steers away from. What am I missing??
Because one of the biggest issues for SoB is dying/fleeing due to leadership tests. Every other army has easy access to either fearless, ATSKNF, stubborn or just a damn high leadership. Sisters had none of that until now with a priest that grants fearless to their unit.
I have been thinking on ways to make Uriah work without sending him forward.
Aegis Defensive line and quad gun for the Exorcists.
10 retributors with 4 heavy bolters and a simulacrum sitting behind that line as well.
Stick Uriah behind the line with the Retributors.
You have plenty of wounds to shift before the heavy bolters die.
You get 2 x rending from the girls and Uriah gives you a free one on top that you don't even need to roll leadership for.
Since you don't have to buy a Superior, Uriah is really 90 points, or buy a laud hailer on a nearby exorcist.
I think anyone would think twice before assaulting that squad as they are going to be very hard to kill with the re-roll armors you're getting. Furthermore, being able to get rending shots basically when you want is better than their previous incarnation and with this setup... you're getting 3 turns of it. Heavy Bolters got more expensive, but I think they can be a lot more reliable now.
So bottom line, how does everyone feel about stealing the D.Angels fighter for use as a stand in Avenger? WYISWYG wise it has the same weapons load out in the chain gun variant. If the Avenger can't take on extra "boom" then the missile pods are decorative. If they can, there's your boom.
Amerikon wrote: I'm trying to work out a 1750 foot mob list and here's where I'm at so far:
Spoiler:
HQ St Celestine
5x Ministorum Priest
TROOPS BSS, 5 Women, Heavy Flamer, Flamer, SS w/ Combi-Flamer
BSS, 5 Women, Heavy Flamer, Flamer, SS w/ Combi-Flamer
BSS, 5 Women, Heavy Flamer, Flamer, SS w/ Combi-Flamer
BSS, 20 Women, Multi-Melta, Meltagun, Simulacrum
BSS, 20 Women, Multi-Melta, Meltagun, Simulacrum
FAST ATTACK Dominions, 6 Women, 4x Meltagun, VSS w/ Combi-Plasma, MM Immolator
Dominions, 6 Women, 4x Meltagun, VSS w/ Combi-Plasma, MM Immolator
HEAVY SUPPORT Exorcist
Exorcist
That comes to 1701, so I've got 49 points to spend and not sure what on. Any ideas?
Also, has anyone played with Condemnors yet? Should a TAC list just take condemnors for all the basic squads combi weapons? I have a certain affection for my combi-flamers and I'm hesitant to make the switch.
Litanies! If you're taking a foot mob, I would recommend fitting in Jacobus somewhere as well. Also, why the 5 girl squads without rides? they are going to die horribly. I think one big squad of 20 is more than enough. YOu put all five priests and Jacobus in there and just lol.
So drop the 20 entirely and use the points for Uriah and the rides for the 5 girl squads, imo. And litanies is required.
The idea was to cram in as many foot troops as possible. I originally had two squads of 20 and two of 10, but I figured splitting them up into units of 5 would give me a couple more flamers. I was generally thinking they would be more or less disposable.
So you would put Uriah and all five Priests in the 20 Sisters mob? If I do go that route, I might be better off dropping Celestine to let Jacobus be my Warlord to get the 5++ on my blob unit.
I am not Pretre, but I have been thinking about a command squad myself and this is how I am planning on doing it.
Canoness with Rosarius and Mantle of Ophelia. Maybe an inferno pistol to pop a transport for them to charge.
4 Celestians with Power axes and bolt pistols.
Hospitalier.
2 Priests. Power mauls, but not required. Possibly Jacobus with them for fearless and counter attack.
Run them into a Repressor or keep them back without transport for counter attack.
Good chance of that transport making it to enemy lines.
Celestians will hit after marines and same time as guardsman so axes don't penalize them that much. Re-roll armors should keep them up through either's attacks, especially if you factor in feel no pain.
Canoness is there to tank anything that could harm the celestians and/or priests.
With re-roll to hits and wounds, Celestians will go to town and clear pretty much anything. 9 hits after re-rolls, 7 wounds also after re-rolls. Factor in the priests, odd wound from the canoness and it's going to be hard to beat that unit unless you're a unit full of death cult assassins.
KalashnikovMarine wrote: So bottom line, how does everyone feel about stealing the D.Angels fighter for use as a stand in Avenger? WYISWYG wise it has the same weapons load out in the chain gun variant. If the Avenger can't take on extra "boom" then the missile pods are decorative. If they can, there's your boom.
I think it would be fine personally and I plan on doing it as well.
KalashnikovMarine wrote: So bottom line, how does everyone feel about stealing the D.Angels fighter for use as a stand in Avenger? WYISWYG wise it has the same weapons load out in the chain gun variant. If the Avenger can't take on extra "boom" then the missile pods are decorative. If they can, there's your boom.
I think it would be fine personally and I plan on doing it as well.
Smaller, cheaper, and better looking than an actual Avenger. Sounds pretty good to me.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Second crack at the 1750 list, from pretre's suggestions:
TROOPS BSS, 5 Women, Heavy Flamer, Flamer, SS w/ Condemnor, MM Immolator
BSS, 5 Women, Heavy Flamer, Flamer, SS w/ Condemnor, MM Immolator
BSS, 5 Women, Heavy Flamer, Flamer, SS w/ Condemnor, MM Immolator
BSS, 20 Women, Heavy Flamer, Flamer, SS w/ Condemnor
FAST ATTACK Dominions, 5 Women, 4x Meltagun, VSS w/ Combi-Plasma, MM Immolator
Dominions, 5 Women, 4x Meltagun, VSS w/ Combi-Plasma, MM Immolator
HEAVY SUPPORT Retributors, 8 Women, 4x Heavy Bolter, VSS, Simulacrum
Exorcist
Exorcist
It's less "fearless power armor horde" and more "mech plus priest-bomb". I figured I'd throw a bunch of Condemnors in there just to see how it goes. I put two on the priests even though they're BS3. I thought that having a little critical mass in one unit would be handy. Total points looks like 1746. I hate odd numbers like that, but I guess sometimes you have to leave points on the table.
The way i used Penitent Engines before (and would again) is to treat them as they were described in the Witch Hunter codex and later this current one: tomb Guardian types.
to put that in non fluff terms: they are reserves there to destroy your deep stikers or keep them busy with a pair of nasty Heavy flamers. For those counting at home, 6 or 7 marines caught in the sights of two heavy flamers is actually quite damaging and will get their attention. That's 8-10 wounds to save against before its charge and while the Marines will indeed get their shot at killing the Engine, failure means a gruesome end. Even if the Powerfist ULTIMATELY kills it, you now have the prospect of a fairly combat ineffective marine units leftovers to contend with and at that range, Sisters won't have to fear them.
So if your intention is to use them as Defensive ends rushing the quarterback, forget about it. But if you use them like Linebackers that OCCASSIONALLY blitz, you have the right idea. In that role, they can do SO much damage. With cover behind Rhinos or in cover, they will most likely be a drain on enemy fire and if there's only one of them, MAYBE two in the force they drop in priority, making them even better at their jobs.
Jus food for thought as you play with lists. I intend to try every unit out as I did before and see what happens.
war wrote: I think i'm missing something. Tau IC's can join riptides? I thought that IC's couldn't join single figure units. What lets them join riptides?
If you put a missile drone with it, then it's no longer a one-model-only unit, which skirts that requirement, letting you take say, an ecm commander for bs5 drones, ignores cover, enrolls and such.
I really wish drone upgrades would get treated as Wargear again just to solve that issue. Plus the darned thing is -still- an MC and has restrictions on what it can be a "unit" with. Just look at Tyrant Guard who need a special rule to get around that.
But, the only upside to this is if he runs a drone and adds an IC, the majority toughness should drop to 4, making it easier to wound the riptide, should it not? Also, if the drone is killed, does that then instantly separate the riptide from the IC?
astro_nomicon wrote: Ok so I'm really trying to get it but I don't: Why are Priests the auto include everyone has made them to seem? The War Hymns are great but ONLY in the assault phase which is something that it seems SoB should avoid like the plague. Not to mention the fact that almost all of 40K steers away from. What am I missing??
They also make the unit fearless and have hatred. I'm not sold on them for MSU builds, but for blob builds they are amazing. Remember how people used to think about guard blobs with power axes? The sister blobs are like that, only better.
Litanies! If you're taking a foot mob, I would recommend fitting in Jacobus somewhere as well. Also, why the 5 girl squads without rides? they are going to die horribly. I think one big squad of 20 is more than enough. YOu put all five priests and Jacobus in there and just.
If you take Celestine, your blob also has hit and run, and can use LD 10 for Hymns. That turns them from LD of 7 (58.33% success) to LD 10 (91.66% success).
You also want to to take Jacobus to make any squads within 12" fearless. Since fearless confers to the unit, a single model within 12" will many any other sister blobs within 12" fearless.
SoB spam becomes a lot more viable with the priest posse' and Celestine bouncing from squad to squad to wreak havoc wherever they need to be and making every sister nearby fearless.
On the subject of Celestine. If you have a priest chanting Emperor protects, she gets a 2+ rerollable save -- or is basically invulnerable to any weapon AP3 or worse. If your squad is attacked by 20 khorne dogs, take every hit on her and you probably won't take a single wound.
On the subject of Hymns. Stacking them with other buffs is extremely good. 20 sisters w/hatred, Righteousness, and Blessed Standard go from doing 2.22 wounds to khorne dogs to doing 11 wounds. That's a 500% increase. That's before you have the priests eviscerators or Celestine.
Shandara wrote: The drones from the Riptide have higher Toughness themselves I believe.
I can't double check from here, but I did not think that was the case. When the codex first came out, I showed that to my Tau opponent and told him he better not field two drones or his riptide becomes T4. I could not find a rule negating the majority rule. However, there could be something I missed.
Shandara wrote: The drones from the Riptide have higher Toughness themselves I believe.
I can't double check from here, but I did not think that was the case. When the codex first came out, I showed that to my Tau opponent and told him he better not field two drones or his riptide becomes T4. I could not find a rule negating the majority rule. However, there could be something I missed.
Shielded missile drones (the riptide-only ones) are T6.
Has anyone considered the AV13 wall using repressors? It'd be nice to see if that can work at all with the MSU sisters enabling more of them, but so many less TLMM than immo spam...
Voldrak wrote:I have been thinking on ways to make Uriah work without sending him forward.
Aegis Defensive line and quad gun for the Exorcists.
10 retributors with 4 heavy bolters and a simulacrum sitting behind that line as well.
Stick Uriah behind the line with the Retributors.
Do the same thing with a bastion. Put an SOB squad on the roof. Put Uriah inside with the Rets. Increases his fearless/counter-attack bubble. We talked about it a couple days back here.
Melissia wrote:Pretre, what's your opinion on which kind of power weapon you'd equip an SCS countercharge unit with?
I don't like the SCS as a countercharge unit, but if I had to Axes would be the way to go (as Voldrak said). You already swing after, so why not go AP1. Get some priests in that unit for extra bodies and AP smashes with rerolls
KalashnikovMarine wrote:So bottom line, how does everyone feel about stealing the D.Angels fighter for use as a stand in Avenger? WYISWYG wise it has the same weapons load out in the chain gun variant. If the Avenger can't take on extra "boom" then the missile pods are decorative. If they can, there's your boom.
Spoiler:
Good idea, there's mine.
So you would put Uriah and all five Priests in the 20 Sisters mob? If I do go that route, I might be better off dropping Celestine to let Jacobus be my Warlord to get the 5++ on my blob unit.
I'm going to run four, uriah and Celestine in a blob in December at a tournament. YOu lose the 5++ but gain a 2+ to tank wounds and I want to see Celestine with rerolls to hit, wounds and armor saves.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
labmouse42 wrote: On the subject of Hymns. Stacking them with other buffs is extremely good. 20 sisters w/hatred, Righteousness, and Blessed Standard go from doing 2.22 wounds to khorne dogs to doing 11 wounds. That's a 500% increase. That's before you have the priests eviscerators or Celestine.
Eviscerators are not worth it when you can already do AP2 most of the time. I'm thinking about power mauls, but that's about it. As to sisters, they get crazy when you reroll everything.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Can we take the Riptide argument elsewhere?
Amerikon wrote:
So you would put Uriah and all five Priests in the 20 Sisters mob? If I do go that route, I might be better off dropping Celestine to let Jacobus be my Warlord to get the 5++ on my blob unit.
Yeah, that is the same thought process I went through after having played a game and watching Celestine in action. She is still good, but I would rather have the extra invul save for rending and any AP2-3 that flies the blob way.
Amerikon wrote:
Second crack at the 1750 list, from pretre's suggestions:
TROOPS BSS, 5 Women, Heavy Flamer, Flamer, SS w/ Condemnor, MM Immolator
BSS, 5 Women, Heavy Flamer, Flamer, SS w/ Condemnor, MM Immolator
BSS, 5 Women, Heavy Flamer, Flamer, SS w/ Condemnor, MM Immolator
BSS, 20 Women, Heavy Flamer, Flamer, SS w/ Condemnor
FAST ATTACK Dominions, 5 Women, 4x Meltagun, VSS w/ Combi-Plasma, MM Immolator
Dominions, 5 Women, 4x Meltagun, VSS w/ Combi-Plasma, MM Immolator
HEAVY SUPPORT Retributors, 8 Women, 4x Heavy Bolter, VSS, Simulacrum
Exorcist
Exorcist
It's less "fearless power armor horde" and more "mech plus priest-bomb". I figured I'd throw a bunch of Condemnors in there just to see how it goes. I put two on the priests even though they're BS3. I thought that having a little critical mass in one unit would be handy. Total points looks like 1746. I hate odd numbers like that, but I guess sometimes you have to leave points on the table.
For the last 4 points I would give your priests bolt pistols instead of laspistols, if only to make for less book keeping when you shoot at things with the squad (assuming they are in the bolter blob) Other than that, the list looks almost exactly like my 1850 -- I run a 3rd exorcist rather than the rets, have power mauls on 4 priests and an eviscerator on the last. I will be very interested to hear your thoughts as you put the list through its paces!
labmouse42 wrote: If you take Celestine, your blob also has hit and run
I'm looking in the codex entry and missing how Celestine confers HAR on units she's attached to. AFAIK this rule is for the IC and is intended for use with Seraphim.
So the only thing left is to remember not to try and hit and run through an opposing squad in a large unit without jump packs lol. Had someone try that with a unit against an Ork Mob and end up stuck in combat because he couldn't get his whole mob out of Base to Base.
I'm going to run four, uriah and Celestine in a blob in December at a tournament. YOu lose the 5++ but gain a 2+ to tank wounds and I want to see Celestine with rerolls to hit, wounds and armor saves.
4 priests eh? I am curious where the 5th priest's 25/40 points are going. 1750 or 1850...what's the rest of the list?
^ I had the exact same thought for the priests and bolt pistols for 1pt it's a no-brainer. Also it maakes conversions easier as I had loads of bolt pistols (holstered and un holstered) kicking about.
I'm going to run four, uriah and Celestine in a blob in December at a tournament. YOu lose the 5++ but gain a 2+ to tank wounds and I want to see Celestine with rerolls to hit, wounds and armor saves.
4 priests eh? I am curious where the 5th priest's 25/40 points are going. 1750 or 1850...what's the rest of the list?
Uriah Jacobus
4 Priests with Litanies
Celestine (Warlord)
BSS (5) with Flamer/HF, Condemnor in TL-MM Immo
BSS (5) with Flamer/HF, Condemnor in TL-MM Immo
BSS (5) with Flamer/HF in TL-MM Immo
BSS (20) with HF/Flamer, Simulacrum
Dominions (6) with 2 Melta/2 Flamer, Simulacrum in Rhino with Laud Hailer
Dominions (5) with 4 Melta in TL-MM Immo
Exorcist
Exorcist
Exorcist
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evildrcheese wrote: ^ I had the exact same thought for the priests and bolt pistols for 1pt it's a no-brainer. Also it maakes conversions easier as I had loads of bolt pistols (holstered and un holstered) kicking about.
Uriah Jacobus
4 Priests with Litanies
Celestine (Warlord)
BSSx20 Flamer (I don't have any heavy Flames >.> BSSx10 Rhino
Dominions w/ Meltas MM/Immo x2 (considering using Storm Bolters too)
Seraphim
Avenger Strike Fighter
Exorcist
Exorcist
Looks familiar!
If you don't have a HF for the big blob, go for a MM. Make sure the 10 BSS get Flamer/Melta or something similar. Do not take Storm Bolters on your dominions. Seriously. If you have to do that, don't take them.
I tried a heavily proxied (with Khorne Zerkers and Cultsts no less! ) 2k blob out against a DE/Eldar list that featured a WraithKnight/Wraithlord/Talos pain engine combo and it did okay. I had Jacobus as my warlord for the 5++ with 2 extra priests. Unfortunately, I found that after a lot of my support units (4x BSS with Immos that had TL-MMs) were taken down I felt it really hurt the effectiveness of the blob. Plus, it kept getting blasted away by the Wraithknight who was sporting a 3 shot Plasma Cannon and by Splinter Cannon Venoms. Eventually, over the course of 3 turns they managed to whittle down the squad to 5 sisters, the priests and Jacobus, even though I made an inordinate amount of invulns/armor saves. Never could get into close combat either to take advantage of the Priests/Jacobus Hymns.
Ordinarily, you'd think Sisters would beat that kind of list, but I think some of it was my bad play. This was my first game above 1k with the Sisters, and I think I had bad target acquisition. It probably would've been in my benefit to just blaze down the Knight with the Exorcists (I was running 3) instead of the Ravagers. The problem was, I was concerned with loosing the Exorcists to the Ravagers and thus the majority of my killing potential against the MCs. I just wasn't sure what to prioritize first. I was also running 2 5x Dom squads with Melta and 10x Seraphim (who i forgot to deploy on the start of the game...that probably would've taken some pressure off the blob)...
Anyway, that was my experience with the blob, with a little rambling included
KelCJ wrote: Ordinarily, you'd think Sisters would beat that kind of list, but I think some of it was my bad play. This was my first game above 1k with the Sisters, and I think I had bad target acquisition. It probably would've been in my benefit to just blaze down the Knight with the Exorcists (I was running 3) instead of the Ravagers. The problem was, I was concerned with loosing the Exorcists to the Ravagers and thus the majority of my killing potential against the MCs. I just wasn't sure what to prioritize first. I was also running 2 5x Dom squads with Melta and 10x Seraphim (who i forgot to deploy on the start of the game...that probably would've taken some pressure off the blob)...
Yeah, not deploying aside, you should have had no problem with that list.
Depending on deployment and first turn you can pop either the WK or the Ravagers first turn and then just gun down paper airplanes all day long.
Uriah Jacobus
4 Priests with Litanies
Celestine (Warlord)
BSSx20 Flamer (I don't have any heavy Flames >.> BSSx10 Rhino
Dominions w/ Meltas MM/Immo x2 (considering using Storm Bolters too)
Seraphim
Avenger Strike Fighter
Exorcist
Exorcist
Looks familiar!
If you don't have a HF for the big blob, go for a MM. Make sure the 10 BSS get Flamer/Melta or something similar. Do not take Storm Bolters on your dominions. Seriously. If you have to do that, don't take them.
Uriah Jacobus
4 Priests with Litanies
Celestine (Warlord)
BSSx20 Flamer (I don't have any heavy Flames >.> BSSx10 Rhino
Dominions w/ Meltas MM/Immo x2 (considering using Storm Bolters too)
Seraphim
Avenger Strike Fighter
Exorcist
Exorcist
Looks familiar!
If you don't have a HF for the big blob, go for a MM. Make sure the 10 BSS get Flamer/Melta or something similar. Do not take Storm Bolters on your dominions. Seriously. If you have to do that, don't take them.
Other than that, let us know how it goes.
I have no sisters heavy weapons besides HB >.>;
Okay, for the 20, go with 2 Flamers. For the 10, go with Flamer/Melta. Dominions, 4 Meltas each.
Depending on deployment and first turn you can pop either the WK or the Ravagers first turn and then just gun down paper airplanes all day long.
Yeah unfortunately, I didn't have first turn and plus they picked the side with all the LOS blocking cover resulting in two wrecked Immolators and one that lost its MM. Oh and worse, my last Immo got Immoblized on terrain the moment I went to move it! I guess I had some bad luck now that I think about it. I was a bit out of it that game. The deployment was even Dawn of War. Honestly, I thought the game was much to my benefit, and I really should have knocked down the WraithKnight in hindsight first, let the Doms (who were outflanking) pick off the Ravagers, and let the Immo knock down the Venoms/Ravagers (really the one that was left...and stuck) I think I could have outlasted them had I done that...Blast hindsight! Oh well. Lesson learned I suppose.
On another note, what do people think about stealing some Space Marines allies and using Drop Pods for a strong alpha strike coupled with scouting Dominions?
KelCJ wrote: Yeah unfortunately, I didn't have first turn and plus they picked the side with all the LOS blocking cover resulting in two wrecked Immolators and one that lost its MM.
Only one side had LOS blockers? That's kind of a problem.
On another note, what do people think about stealing some Space Marines allies and using Drop Pods for a strong alpha strike coupled with scouting Dominions?
Meh, we already have a good alpha strike. I mean, it can work, but there isn't a lot that we get out of it that we don't have otherwise.
Depending on deployment and first turn you can pop either the WK or the Ravagers first turn and then just gun down paper airplanes all day long.
Yeah unfortunately, I didn't have first turn and plus they picked the side with all the LOS blocking cover resulting in two wrecked Immolators and one that lost its MM. Oh and worse, my last Immo got Immoblized on terrain the moment I went to move it! I guess I had some bad luck now that I think about it. I was a bit out of it that game. The deployment was even Dawn of War. Honestly, I thought the game was much to my benefit, and I really should have knocked down the WraithKnight in hindsight first, let the Doms (who were outflanking) pick off the Ravagers, and let the Immo knock down the Venoms/Ravagers (really the one that was left...and stuck) I think I could have outlasted them had I done that...Blast hindsight! Oh well. Lesson learned I suppose.
On another note, what do people think about stealing some Space Marines allies and using Drop Pods for a strong alpha strike coupled with scouting Dominions?
Your issue isn't that you had bad targeting, but the terrain. This can be a big problem. The table should be evenly set up with Los blocking and normal terrain. If it's all on one side it's wrong.
KelCJ wrote: Ordinarily, you'd think Sisters would beat that kind of list, but I think some of it was my bad play. This was my first game above 1k with the Sisters, and I think I had bad target acquisition. It probably would've been in my benefit to just blaze down the Knight with the Exorcists (I was running 3) instead of the Ravagers. The problem was, I was concerned with loosing the Exorcists to the Ravagers and thus the majority of my killing potential against the MCs. I just wasn't sure what to prioritize first. I was also running 2 5x Dom squads with Melta and 10x Seraphim (who i forgot to deploy on the start of the game...that probably would've taken some pressure off the blob)...
Yeah, not deploying aside, you should have had no problem with that list.
Depending on deployment and first turn you can pop either the WK or the Ravagers first turn and then just gun down paper airplanes all day long.
This seems a bit optimistic. Even with first turn, a full pile of Exorcists and Dominions, you're going to struggle to drop a Wraithknight in a single turn.
KalashnikovMarine wrote: So bottom line, how does everyone feel about stealing the D.Angels fighter for use as a stand in Avenger? WYISWYG wise it has the same weapons load out in the chain gun variant. If the Avenger can't take on extra "boom" then the missile pods are decorative. If they can, there's your boom.
It looks pretty close to the avenger, I wouldn't have any issue with you using it. The avenger does have the option to add missiles or missile launchers to its load out, so its a perfectly viable option and probably a good choice. I made my avenger with a valkyrie kit and with the nerf to retributors I think I will definitely be using it more in my games.
I mean yeah but thats like 700+ points of shooting to take down a 240-300 pt model and now your Doms are all within easy reach of your oppenents army. Why not just ignore it and pound the all his transports and squishier targets while it pops one immolator a turn?
astro_nomicon wrote: I mean yeah but thats like 700+ points of shooting to take down a 240-300 pt model and now your Doms are all within easy reach of your oppenents army. Why not just ignore it and pound the all his transports and squishier targets while it pops one immolator a turn?
Yeah, and it's basically just a coinflip as to whether you can actually even kill it or not, since the average case nets you 6 1/3 wounds and you're going to do worse than that roughly half the time.
astro_nomicon wrote:I mean yeah but thats like 700+ points of shooting to take down a 240-300 pt model and now your Doms are all within easy reach of your oppenents army. Why not just ignore it and pound the all his transports and squishier targets while it pops one immolator a turn?
Amerikon wrote:
astro_nomicon wrote: I mean yeah but thats like 700+ points of shooting to take down a 240-300 pt model and now your Doms are all within easy reach of your oppenents army. Why not just ignore it and pound the all his transports and squishier targets while it pops one immolator a turn?
Yeah, and it's basically just a coinflip as to whether you can actually even kill it or not, since the average case nets you 6 1/3 wounds and you're going to do worse than that roughly half the time.
I'm not saying it is a terribly good idea, but you can do it. In the times I have run up against a Wraithknight, I saved it for last and killed the rest of the army first. Especially against DE/E hybrids, the rest of their army is soooo fragile.
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asianavatar wrote: The avenger does have the option to add missiles or missile launchers to its load out, so its a perfectly viable option and probably a good choice.
The chin lascannons from the DA flyer fit perfectly in the missile slots on the same kit so it allows you to do the default loadout really easily.
astro_nomicon wrote: I mean yeah but thats like 700+ points of shooting to take down a 240-300 pt model and now your Doms are all within easy reach of your oppenents army. Why not just ignore it and pound the all his transports and squishier targets while it pops one immolator a turn?
Yeah, and it's basically just a coinflip as to whether you can actually even kill it or not, since the average case nets you 6 1/3 wounds and you're going to do worse than that roughly half the time.
Oh, silly wraithknights.
That's what it's for, though. It's a fire magnet, much like the riptide. You take your Immolators, your seraphim, your Exorcists, and you blow the fudge out of the Wraithknight's support. Then, when the enemy is reduced to a pile of slag, you focus fire the Wraithknight down.
pretre wrote: @Amerikon. Much better. Although I'm kind of worried that your Rets don't have any buildings/aegis to hide in.
Yeah, that's an issue of not having any more Exorcists.
Things I could spend the 150ish points on:
St Celestine - Does she make the Priest-bomb better than the loss of 5++?
Another BSSMSU - I don't have any more Immolators!
8 Seraphim w/ Hand Flamers - Not sure if this is better than the Retributors.
I'm kind of leaning towards Celestine, possibly because she's a bit of a security blanket, also because I figure if I'm doing the Priest-bomb, I might as well go whole hog.
What is everybody equipping their Avenger Strike Fighters with?
I was thinking of just using it for anti air so would a pair of autocannons be a good choice or are the lascannons all I need to blow enemy fighters out of the sky?
MrFlutterPie wrote: What is everybody equipping their Avenger Strike Fighters with?
I was thinking of just using it for anti air so would a pair of autocannons be a good choice or are the lascannons all I need to blow enemy fighters out of the sky?
Doesn't it come stock with the rotary cannon and twin lascannons? That's more than enough.
I need to test that out, so you'd be a good canary for it.
It's highly likely that this army is going up against one of jy2's beatstick armies in a couple of days. I hope you're not too squeamish, b/c the canary's about to get all beat to hell.
McNinja wrote: Your issue isn't that you had bad targeting, but the terrain. This can be a big problem. The table should be evenly set up with Los blocking and normal terrain. If it's all on one side it's wrong.
I think I'll have to agree. Typically, for some odd reason, we roll hammer and anvil quite often. My friend had the table set up ahead of time, and I think that it is because we're so used to getting that deployment he unconsciously set up the terrain to work best with it. So, when we played DoW, it was woefully uneven. I think before I play him again I'm going to ask if we can restructure the table to better balance out the deployment types.
Since I see we are somewhat on the topic of the WraithKnight, how should we approach this beast. I know we have the tools to take it down, but as has been said, is it a good idea to? Or are we better off ignoring it, feeding it screening squads like dominions or less vital BSS, and instead dismantling the rest of the army? Do we make the same approach in regards to the Riptide with the exception of feeding it less valuable squads?
Also, love the idea of using the Nephilim as an Avenger. I need to see if my group wouldn't mind a little forgeworld action...
A part of me wants to say no to using the DA flyer and be a purist stcking to the FW model but the more I look at it the more I am liking it. The church iconogaphy on it fits in with the sisters armory well enough and it has all the bits in a single kit to get the proper loadout. Not sure if I have some spare imolator pilots sitting around that I could swap in but if worse comes to worse I could always just paint over the cockpit.
First game was against my friend's Iron Hands list. 1245 or sommat. We played the AS Relics mission, my list was something like:
Canoness, Inf. Pistol, Rosarius, Relic Blade
Celestians X6, VSis, Combi-Flamer + Power Maul, Sim. Imp, HF, FL, naked Priest
All the above in Rhino with Dozer Blade
2x 10 BSS, Fl, MM, Vsis and Sim. Imp.
BSS of 5, HF, Priest, Fl in TLMM Immolator with Dozer Blade
5 Doms, 3 melta, Vsis and Sim Imp in TLHF Immolator.
6X Seraphim, 2 Hand Flamers.
Exorcist.
His list was something like:
Trial homebrew, basically Relentless, extra wound Master of the Forge with Conversion Beamer who gives his squad Relentless)
Trial Chaplain Dread, TLHB and Dread CCW with SB, gave him a Rosarius save. since toned way down for the record. Too crazy resilient with IWND and far too cheap.
10 Tac Marines, ML and HF, Sergeant with PMaul?
10 Tac Marines, ML and Melta, PFist, in a Rhino
6 Sternguard with combi-plas X2 and combi-melta X1, maybe something else that never came up. In an Assault Cannon Razorback with DB.
Dreadnaught, Assault Cannon, PFist and HF in a DRop Pod with missile launcher.
It was a good game overall, I lost but it was a nail biter. In all fairness too the Chaplain Dread special character who shrugged off every bit of fire for four turns due to a 4+ invul we made the mistake of testing... since toned down a bit! I was very impressed with the Seraphim, their staying power was bonkers and they actually tarpitted after doing quite a lot of damage with hand flamers. The Exorcist was great (blew up a Razorback turn one and two Sternguard passengers, pinning the rest). I had had a long sleepless night due to crazy neighbors and made some tactical blunders, namely giving a relic to my Canoness instead of the Priest and having her run off with it, and forgetting to join my last minute Cardinal objective to my surviving squad of Sisters at the end of the game so he was killed. I ended up killing the pod, the Chaplain Dread, and probably half of each Tac Sqaud, the Razorback and two Sternguard. At endgame I had a Rhino, the Exorcist, three Sisters and the Canoness left. He had defiled a relic for three points, killed the Cardinal for six (!!!!!), and had Linebreaker. I got two for my relic (I got another which turned out to be a dud), First Blood, Linebreaker and Slay the Warlord. My luck was decent but those two mistakes and the unkillable Dread really sealed his victory. The ten strong squads and the small squad in Rhino did ok, the doms kind of whiffed (they did take two points off the Drop Dread but then got killed and it healed back up to full! Ugh.). Priests were so-so, didn't do much other than Fearless this game.
Tonight I played a Necron List against another friend. We played Defend the Shrine. I used the above list, except I traded out the MM and HF in the large BS squads for HF and Melta, and I played a Dom. Squad with 3 Flamers, think I added a DB somewhere.
His list was something like:
Necron Lord, Mindshackle Scarabs, Warscythe, Semi Weave, and whatever gives him 3++, Res Orb Maybe? riding around on the chariot of doom (which has been scary by the by).
2X14(?) Necron Warriors, Lord with Res. Orb and Staff of Light in each
2X 5 Immortals with Gauss Blasters
3 Heavy Destroyers
5 Scarab Bases
At end of turn 5, his list was down to two Immortals stuck in combat with my Dom. Veteran. His Lord had just died and If he survived combat he was staring down the TLHF Immolator, around fifteen or twenty sisters with various flame and melta weapons and an angry Priest, and the Exorcist. He had Slay the Warlord and First Blood, I had Linebreaker, Slay and the central objective. VERY tght game and well played all round. The Canoness was slain because of MSS and I am still not sure how I feel about her. The Priests felt to me like "win more" more than being really great. The Exorcist was decent, The Seraphim were absolutely brilliant even without Shred going off, and now that I think about it every squad had survivors! and the HF and Melta combo worked beautifully as did the Doms (killing those pesky Scarabs, saving my Exorcist and killing/tarpitting a squad of immortals). Also, it is the very first game in which the Chariot has been killed in our little group which was a glorious moment. A very solid feeling victory despite feeling like it was very close right to the end.
The missions are tricky, but rolling for them is a huge help. I do think we'll houserule the Relic mission as it's just too swingy because of the random element, but despite a withering hail of Gauss fire the Shrine mission really put my army where it does its best work, and the rerollable 6+ certainly helped me out!
Madcat87 wrote: A part of me wants to say no to using the DA flyer and be a purist stcking to the FW model but the more I look at it the more I am liking it. The church iconogaphy on it fits in with the sisters armory well enough and it has all the bits in a single kit to get the proper loadout. Not sure if I have some spare imolator pilots sitting around that I could swap in but if worse comes to worse I could always just paint over the cockpit.
Painting over the cockpit's my current plan...
Unless someone has a spare Immo pilot they'd be willing to sell *bats eyelashes*
Madcat87 wrote: A part of me wants to say no to using the DA flyer and be a purist stcking to the FW model but the more I look at it the more I am liking it. The church iconogaphy on it fits in with the sisters armory well enough and it has all the bits in a single kit to get the proper loadout. Not sure if I have some spare imolator pilots sitting around that I could swap in but if worse comes to worse I could always just paint over the cockpit.
Painting over the cockpit's my current plan...
Unless someone has a spare Immo pilot they'd be willing to sell *bats eyelashes*
Shouldn't it be an Imperial Guard pilot, like from a Sentinel, seeing as the Imperial Navy provides air support for the Church?
Doesn't it come stock with the rotary cannon and twin lascannons? That's more than enough.
Rotary cannon and two lascannons, slight difference.
Shouldn't it be an Imperial Guard pilot, like from a Sentinel, seeing as the Imperial Navy provides air support for the Church?
It should and that is how I built mine. I guess you could go with the body or head from the immolator kit. On the subject of immolators, any one have good ideas for making closed turrets, not a big fan of that sister sitting on top of my tank behind a window.
Doesn't it come stock with the rotary cannon and twin lascannons? That's more than enough.
Rotary cannon and two lascannons, slight difference.
Twin = two. Twin linked is different.
Shouldn't it be an Imperial Guard pilot, like from a Sentinel, seeing as the Imperial Navy provides air support for the Church?
It should and that is how I built mine. I guess you could go with the body or head from the immolator kit. On the subject of immolators, any one have good ideas for making closed turrets, not a big fan of that sister sitting on top of my tank behind a window.
I did the legs from a Eldar jetbiker and the body from the immolator sprue with arms from an immolator and a backpack. Looks great.
Trying to do my part to get a Condemnor Boltgun FAQ put up. If you guys want to copy/paste my email and send it maybe we can get some more attention.
Gamefaqs@gwplc.com
Having purcased the 6th edition Adeptas Sororitas codex I came across the following rule for the Psi-Shock ability on the Condemnor Boltgun.
"Any unit with the Pskyer, Brotherhood of Psykers or Psychic Pilot special rules that is hit by a weapon with this special rule suffers the Perils of the Warp in addition to any other damage."
When firing a Condemnor Boltgun at a unit containing an Independant Character with the Psyker special rule, does that unit count as a Psyker for the purposes of Psi-Shock. And if so, do all IC's and Character models with the rule take a Perils? Or just the closest. And if there is an allocation of one perils, can this IC roll a "Look out Sir?"
Signed, DaDakkaest
After pouring over the rulebook my take is the following, purely for speculatory purposes.
- Only models can have rules (if there is only 1 surviving space marine, it still has They Shall Know No Fear because the rule belongs to the model). An entry in a codex only represents the fact of all models in that entry (not necessarily 'unit') sharing certain rule. (rulebook page: 32).
- single models are still considered units (rulebook page: 3).
- The psyker rule confers certain abilities to a model (rulebook page: 66).
Concluding from points 1 to 3, we can conclude that a single model with a certain rule is considered a Unit with that rule (or rules)
- Independant Characters are counted as members of the unit they join for ALL purposes (see Independant Characters in index)
Therefore we are forced to conclude that a unit containing a character with a special rule, has that special rule, even if only one model can benefit from it. Hence if Celestine joins a unit that unit has Hit and run, though only Celestine may actually perform a hit and run maneuver because the other models in the unit do not have that special rule. unless they are seraphim Hence when a unit recieves a perils of the warp, all models are affected, and refer to their special rules such as "Brotherhood of psykers" or the Eldar Farseer Rules for Perils. If there is no special rule, than either each character, model or IC in the unit with the psyker special rule suffers perils. Or only one does. Since the entry for Psi-Shock says the unit suffers A (Singular) Perils.