As in the title, has anyone ever had an issue with total war gamer? How did they resolve the matter? Were they polite and helpful? Only having a slight issue with an order Ive payed for but they havent posted it because they believe I havent payed for it. Been waiting for it to arrive for near on 2 weeks so I thought I'd best check the order, only to find it is still an "open" order. Worst bit is their postage time quotes seem quite long, so I'll be have been waiting around a month for something I payed instantly for when/if they ever arrive.

I've only ordered once from them before, and I won't order again, the delivery time was unbelievably slow, their communication was terrible, I sent them multiple emails, asking for some information as to where my item was, and after about 15 working days of ordering it and about 4 emails, I got a message saying the item was out of stock and will be delivered as soon as they got it in stock. Which all in all took me to about a month after I ordered to get one box of Death company, should have just gone to the shop.

Yeah, I will not use them again. Their timing is very slow, communication is fleeting at best.

If you are looking for a good UK based discount store try GiftsforGeeks

I've an order open with them still waiting for delivery. They seem communicative enough on facebook but I have seen them delete negative stuff, which is always bad.

30% off is an immense deal though, so I'm content to wait. My next order will go with Triple Helix Wargames as I continue my search for Dark Sphere levels of service. I miss those guys :(

great... not the best place then? Got nothing to do all week now. Right waste of my time.

If ordering in the UK use firestormgames, triple helix, gifts for geeks. None of the other places really compare

I've used total wargamer multiple times with no problems at all, got all my stuff within 3-5 days, no problem.

Then again, I've only ever ordered Mantic stuff from them.

GW gets picky with its retailers, so that is likely the cause of delays when ordering GW products.

There's a reason why darksphere stopped selling GW at a high discount, too much of a pita to deal with the company.

Rocket Hobbies is also worth a look. 25% on most plastic kits. Have used them several times, including once with a problem that was resolved effortlessly.

It is a bit hit and miss with them.

So far I have been very impressed with 4tk for price, commiuncations (even replied to emails today and at 3am on friday after ordering the box sets!), will be putting quite a bit of dollar there way this week so will let you know how I get on.

Motograter wrote:
If ordering in the UK use firestormgames, triple helix, gifts for geeks. None of the other places really compare

4tk do!!

Their contact us form doesn't even work... this looks promising. I've messaged via facebook them and e-mailed them. If the item is out of stock, or they've just not bothered to send it. I'm considering getting watchdog involved after hearing what you guys have to say. Poor communication from a web based store is not acceptable.

Their facebook page may as well be a complaints page atm, if it wasn't for the fact of some decent reviews this place as had, I'd be thinking about opening a paypal claim.

I mean, I know they just ran a big sale but what are they possibly doing up there? Some people have been waiting on orders since the 6th - I don't see how that is possible

EDIT: Just been dispatched. Bit less time than I'd been waiting for Wayland and @ 30% off, I'm happy with them - at least as long as it has actually been dispatched! I have no reason to doubt that though

Hello All

This is Paul from Total Wargamer.

I just wanted to say sorry to all our customers for the slow delivery they will have been experiencing of late - along with any difficulty getting hold of us.

This has been caused by a series of issues we have experienced as a business - there have been a lot of changes taking place.

We have moved server - this has caused email problems - sometimes we haven't had them come through at all - this has now been resolved.

The problems with email have then spilled over to the phone - customers that have not had an email response then call, meaning the phone is always busy (it rings and goes to voice-mail when we are on the phone).

Finally - we have grown as a business over the past few months almost doubling in size, this will deliver benefits long term but short term new members of staff need training and existing staff members have been pulled off their core jobs to do this. This has led to issues in all departments.

Most of this is behind us now and the backlog that has built up will be cleared within the next 1.5 weeks - after that we will see the benefits of the extra staff and the new hosting environment and more.

Once again sorry to anyone that has had issues during this period.

Was reading through this thread and was going to say(got beat too it though with a response from Paul), I've ordered several times, one order was a large order that was split, had a slight problem with this order but one call had it sorted straight away. I will definately be using again, and would definately recommend.


(But each too their own, some people swear by wayland.... I'd rather pay GW at full cost then have to deal with them again!)

My order was part-shipped too, which counts as excellent service in my book as it's extra work and expense for them but it means a happier customer.

I'll be using them again too no doubt, especially with the sort of deals they run now and then. (Gutted I missed half price Ravenwing battleforces!)

yeah,
My 40k Order changed to dispatched on Saturday but I've still not received it.( Edit : royal mail held my item at the local post office!)
I tried calling but it went through to voice mail 6 times. So i resorted to email... Hope to hear from Total Wargaming soon.

On the plus side their store looks amazing on the website, the google map walk around is very clever. If they get this order to me by friday I'll be using them again, I have a large order of X-wing itching to be placed!

Panic...

I had an order getting on for four weeks not marked as dispatched till this week, however to be fair it's the first time I've had a problem with them, dispatch has never been what I'd call rapid but it's never been this slow before.

But if as Paul says they've had problems lately due to rapid growth I'd be willing to give them another go, if the same happens again I'll just have to go elsewhere, but there's no need to jump the gun just yet.

I also had a problem with them. Did not receive my order for three weeks, but after a few emails back and fourth they did send me the order again. It did take a very long time to arrive though.

yeah,
Ignore - Royal mail Issue - although total wargamer could have picked up the phone!


Panic...

Yeah,
Went to the post office and they had the package, even though I got no red card through the letter box to say I'd missed the postman.
I kicked up a fuss and they gave in and gave it to me..
So yeah not total wargamers fault but royal mails.

I've placed my X-Wing order with Total Wargamer and hopefully Royal Mail doesn't feth up this delivery!

Panic...

Just got an email from Total Wargamer saying that they won't be able to give me a Ltd Edn Dark Vengeance after all. Apparently GW have cut their original allowance of 5 batches, down to only 2, and I ordered too late.

I'm quite happy with their proposed solution though -- a fiver off an unlimited edition box. Seems fair. They offered me a full refund instead, but as far as I can see, this is GW's screwup, not theirs!

I had the same email from Total Wargamer. I originally accepted but then I found out that a mate had the limited edition he was willing to give me for £50 so I decided to cancel the order.

They were professional throughout the email communication and I think they handled the situation best they could.

Personally I have ordered from Total War gamer a few times before this and have never had a problem with them. Happy to do so again. They tend to be the cheapest around.

Most of the above orders seem like Dark Vengeance/Games Workshop kits.

I ordered a few starter sets for Dystopian Wars from them. I'm a patient enough guy, and it's only been a week and a half (I'm in no rush to get the models) but the lack of contact does disturb me. I haven't received an email confirmation from them for the order or nothing. I mean, I work in Customer Service, so I know that the majority of customer problems arise through miscommunication. A simple "Yes, we have your order" is all I'd expect.

I'll wait a week or so before I start to get uppity or anything. But still..

I ordered the non limited Dark Vengeance set over ten days ago and it still hasn't been dispatched. I've emailed them with no reply so have opened a dispute with Paypal.

As far as I'm concerned, if they haven't got them in stock or are having other problems they should have let me know.

If they are having such trouble with their expanding business (poor loves) and can't stick to their five to ten day postage, they should make it clear on their front page and when you make an order before you pay.

Yeah,
Check your post office dude, that's where mine was.

Panic...

yeah,
Recieved My Xwing Order.

Had good communication with total wargamer following royal mail withholding my dark vengence parcel from me.

Extremely happy.

Panic...

After 1 month the order is still " processed " and they not respond to mails.

wow, wish I'd found this thread before I placed my order with them.
I placed an order on the 6th of Jan, chased it up on the 16th to be told of "delivery problems".
Emailed them again on Jan 27th and still waiting for reply.
If nothing arrives pretty darn quick they'll be getting a disputed payment from the Credit Card company.

not happy!

They're pretty slow to deliver, and I agree they shouldn't say 'five to ten working days' when they really mean ' ten to twenty working days'.

I have found them quick and friendly to respond to emails and helpdesk tickets though. For some reason, most of their messages end up in my Spam folder. I use gmail, which is usually pretty good at gauging what is and isn't spam, but the TWG mails always seem to get labelled as spam.

though it was a bit slow to arrive, I got sent a second black primer, some paints, and a box of grey knights extra for free

Dante1942 wrote:
wow, wish I'd found this thread before I placed my order with them.
I placed an order on the 6th of Jan, chased it up on the 16th to be told of "delivery problems".
Emailed them again on Jan 27th and still waiting for reply.
If nothing arrives pretty darn quick they'll be getting a disputed payment from the Credit Card company.

not happy!

Try the Facebook page, my cousin had more luck getting a result there than using the CS line and support tickets.

I use them when they have the right amount of deals on. However, that is with the knowledge that they are very, very slow. It's also with the knowledge that they're just up the road in Evesham so I could go and give them a poke with a stick if I needed to!

yeah,
I just got a reply to a email question.

email them
support@totalwargamer.co.uk

Panic...

They stopped replying to me when I started asking awkward questions, like, "It's been 15 working days since I made my order, and it's still 'Processing', when do you think you might be delivering it or even sending it out?" :(

The other half of my order arrived today, 3 days short of a 5 month wait.

I used support tickets and persistence.

Good luck.

I ended up cancelling my order and asking for refund.
I placed and order with Rocket Hobbies in Canterbury and that's starting to look like it's going the same way :-(
okay if you can walk in grab the products you want but as for internet ordering that's a whole new ball game apparently.

I've also made my friends aware of the "experience" of ordering hobby stuff online.

I've been a big advocate of RH on here, but my most recent order has been less than stellar.

Order 2 x Pink Horrors, which were listed as in stock.

Two weeks pass and my order is still awaiting picking, even though Horrors remain as In Stock and they've taken my money.

Contact them today, they only had one available, but now have two, so will send it out ASAP.

I want to give them benefit of the doubt. But surely having one in stock and pending orders for at least two means you're effectively out of stock?

I won't stop using them, but this is a big strike against them and I'll probably use Dark Sphere more often, i used to chop and change between them both as they'd both been great, who are just as cheap and have yet to let me down in anyway. I don't know what'll happen if they start slipping as well!

I

 azreal13 wrote:
I've been a big advocate of RH on here, but my most recent order has been less than stellar.

Order 2 x Pink Horrors, which were listed as in stock.

Two weeks pass and my order is still awaiting picking, even though Horrors remain as In Stock and they've taken my money.

Contact them today, they only had one available, but now have two, so will send it out ASAP.

I want to give them benefit of the doubt. But surely having one in stock and pending orders for at least two means you're effectively out of stock?

I won't stop using them, but this is a big strike against them and I'll probably use Dark Sphere more often, i used to chop and change between them both as they'd both been great, who are just as cheap and have yet to let me down in anyway. I don't know what'll happen if they start slipping as well!

I

Rocket Hobbies is no better than TW with speed, I assure you.

I'd suggest just to keep using Dark Sphere, they are far better than Rocket Hobbies.

 blood reaper wrote:

 azreal13 wrote:
I've been a big advocate of RH on here, but my most recent order has been less than stellar.

Order 2 x Pink Horrors, which were listed as in stock.

Two weeks pass and my order is still awaiting picking, even though Horrors remain as In Stock and they've taken my money.

Contact them today, they only had one available, but now have two, so will send it out ASAP.

I want to give them benefit of the doubt. But surely having one in stock and pending orders for at least two means you're effectively out of stock?

I won't stop using them, but this is a big strike against them and I'll probably use Dark Sphere more often, i used to chop and change between them both as they'd both been great, who are just as cheap and have yet to let me down in anyway. I don't know what'll happen if they start slipping as well!

I

Rocket Hobbies is no better than TW with speed, I assure you.

I'd suggest just to keep using Dark Sphere, they are far better than Rocket Hobbies.

Well, in my experience over multiple orders, RH were roughly comparable. The difference between this order and my last (back in Oct IIRC) is marked.

YMMV of course.

There's always Wayland too.

Dante1942 wrote:
I ended up cancelling my order and asking for refund.
I placed and order with Rocket Hobbies in Canterbury and that's starting to look like it's going the same way :-(
okay if you can walk in grab the products you want but as for internet ordering that's a whole new ball game apparently.

I've also made my friends aware of the "experience" of ordering hobby stuff online.

Use gifts for geeks, you will not be disappointed.

Got my order through, after just under a month, but without the extra 2 boxes of stuff I emailed them to add a few days after I placed the order. :( I guess that will show up sooner or later...

Ive ordered from them twice now.

First time, my Codex came in two weeks, whcih uis exactly when they said it'd arrive.

This time (also last time), they still havent even despatched my Christmas present...

That 2nd order I placed -- just over 4 weeks ago -- is still stuck on 'Processing'. :(

I queried it 8 days ago, and was told " A large delivery is coming in the next 48 hours - all outstanding orders will be fulfilled once it arrives - delivery within a couple of days."

I wouldn't be quite so annoyed if their responses weren't so inaccurate. 48 hours for their delivery to arrive + a couple of days for them to deliver it to me = I should have received my delivery 4 days later, which is now 4 days ago. And they haven't even posted it yet. What kind of a business either just flat out lies to its customers, or has so little clue about what's actually going on that any attempt they may make to estimate delivery times is completely inaccurate? :(

They are running 2 other business's from the same address, Mythreal and another one that i can't remember the name of off hand. Mythreal is another wargaming site. wouldn't surprise me if the same stock they have listed on one site is sold through both total Wargamer and Mythreal.

Had an almost identical experience. Goods did follow relatively soon after though.

Ordered from them twice. First time, it took over a month to arrive. Second time, I waited a month before cancelling, ironically, they were much quicker to offer a refund than actually deliver the thing xD

I just wanted to step in with praise for Total Wargamer for a moment. They are my FLGS, so I know Paul and his team well. They have been tremendously supportive to the local scene and for our local convention, MiniCon.

Paul started the weekend sales to help drive stock turnover, andthe strategy has succeeded beyond his wildest dreams. It meant a lot of changes to the store and staff and really raised their profile.

If this has meant some orders taking a while (mine too, as I'm not allowed to collect Internet orders in person, and the sales only apply online!) I can promise that there is no desire on TW's part to separate you from your cash on false pretences and that they are working as hard as possible to fulfil all your orders to your satisfaction.

However, if you have any pressing issues, I would be happy to offer my services as go-between. PM me here with your name and order number and I'll compile a list of queries and make a personal call on the store in the next week or so.

Regards,

Robey

I'm really glad that they're doing well.

But when I message them, as I did, to say, "Look, the order's late, which isn't too much of a problem right now, but I really do need it for a tournament next weekend..." and am told I'll have it in time... then not told anything when in fact, they can't get it to me in time... that's a problem. Not so much with the lateness, but with the poor communication.

Wish I had seen this thread before placing my order, ( and making a thread similar)

I placed an order almost 2 weeks ago, contacted them and was offered either wait longer or get a refund. I've asked for a refund and no response from them at all.

Anyone have any suggestions on how to contact them besides there contact us system?

Try Facebook, they seem to respond faster.

Just left the following message on their Facebook group, since they stopped responding to my support tickets:

Any chance you guys can respond to the support ticket I left you last week? My order is a month late, and I have a tournament on Saturday that I need some of the models for. If you can get them to me tomorrow, no worries, but if not, I'm either going to have to drive to my nearest GW and buy them (about an hour's round trip plus parking and GW surcharge) or accept a penalty from the tournament organiser for changing my list. I notice I'm not the first person to experience problems with you guys:

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?373585-Total-Wargamer-Problems.

Lying to me when I first queried the lateness of my order was unforgivable enough, but just refusing to answer because I start asking difficult questions (like "when will it actually arrive")? That's customer service right down there with Maelstrom Games at their shoddiest. :(

Ended up cancelling my order. Best they could offer in terms of delivering it was that they might be able to post it next week. Not good enough. Drove to my nearest FLGS, only getting 10% off but avoiding the stress of constantly emailing TW and being ignored or fobbed off. :(

Dark Sphere man, they're like anti-grav supersonic delivery boots with little wings on the side. If you're ever in a rush, I'd highly recommend them. I'm a good 800 miles from them too, still arrive within 2/3 days every time.

Yeah, I've used DS before, and the fact that I know they're quick and cheap only adds to my frustration with TW. If TW had been honest with me at *any time* during my communication with them, I could have cancelled my TW order a week ago and gone with DS instead.

I personally wouldn't order from gifts for geeks again. I placed a fair size order all of which were "instock" paid straight away, waited a week got nothing(it should have been next day), emailed them no reply 3-4 more emails posts on face book and messages through skype(they wouldnt accept my call) and they finnally send me an email saying some of the items were out of stock, which ones they wouldn't send me. Ended up sending me half my order(3 weeks late) with an apology note inside, saying the general some of the items were out of stock so heres half your order. another 2 weeks later the rest turns up sent via royal mail, rather than the courier i had paid for. I emailed them again to let them know everything had finnally arrived and that i was far from happy with the service, I believe that I was ignored as I never heard from them again.

I also had the same problem with Total Wargamer, their lack of communication is utter crap in my eyes, bad customer service really pisses me off to be honest. I did receive my order eventually though. When i was having the problems i used their support ticket and tried calling them.

I personally wont order from them again (even at 30% off) Id rather pay a bit more and get some decent customer service.

Im trying wayland games for the second time now and while i know there can also be delays with these (Although everything i ordered was listed in stock so could be interesting) Im happier waiting because i know if i need it ill get some decent customer service from them.

Another thing, just browsed dark sphere and realised they are cheaper than wayland games, and after only reading good things about them on here maybe they will be ordered from next

Another thing that could be a decision factor. (And I just found out today), Total Wargamer use couriers, EG DPD.

Which means a trek over to a nearby town to pick up the damn thing as opposed to wandering down to the post office.

Yeah,
Got my new x-wing from total war gamer today.
Wave two launched on the 28th so three day delivery

They can be great!

Panic...

I've used them a couple of times before with no issues. This time round I seem to be in the same boat as a few folk here.

Ordered on the 9th Feb,
chased on the 23rd as still sitting at processed,
Got the "A large delivery is coming in the next 48 hours - all outstanding orders will be fulfilled once it arrives - delivery within a couple of days" response

as of today (3rd March) the Order is still sitting at Processed,

I'm happy to wait as it's nothing I need urgently and I dont want to cancel the order as yes the 30% sale is nice.
but at the same time this is the is the longest I have ever waited on an online order arriving (period)

Will it effect my desicion to use the company in the future? - Yes most definitely.

Ag3ofPanic wrote:
I've used them a couple of times before with no issues. This time round I seem to be in the same boat as a few folk here.

Ordered on the 9th Feb,
chased on the 23rd as still sitting at processed,
Got the "A large delivery is coming in the next 48 hours - all outstanding orders will be fulfilled once it arrives - delivery within a couple of days" response

as of today (3rd March) the Order is still sitting at Processed,

I'm happy to wait as it's nothing I need urgently and I dont want to cancel the order as yes the 30% sale is nice.
but at the same time this is the is the longest I have ever waited on an online order arriving (period)

Will it effect my desicion to use the company in the future? - Yes most definitely.

I actually created an accound here just to share my experiences with this company.
I placed 3orders the 14th of februari and my status is still at Processed aswell. The first time I asked them what the delay was all about I got the 48 hours response aswel.

That I have to wait does not bug me that much because I cant get the same intrest at the bank (30% is quite alot). What DOES bug me alot is the fact that there is absolutely no comunication whatsoever. They do not respond to followup mails and the 48 hours have long passed.

Yesterday i send them an email in which I told them I wanted to cancel 1 of my 3 orders because it was taking too long, got no response to that aswel.

So do I keep my other 2 orders open? yes. Will I ever buy from them again? probably not unless comunication improves.

So be warry when ordering products here.

I have used total wargamer once and not had a problem other than slow postage.

I would prefer gifts for geeks though.

I ordered from TotalWargamer on Monday, 4th March. I was on holiday at the time and expected the order to take a while to arrive. No biggie, I wouldn't be home for at least a couple of weeks.

It's now the 6th April. Nothing has arrived. The order hasn't even been dispatched.
Emailing them just gets them offering a refund. I don't want a bloody refund, I just want my models. Offering free courier services on my next order would be worth considering, or something like that. A refund is not good enough, particularly given the time scale. It's like inverse credit terms!

10 working days is already slow, that's their usual delivery window. Who takes more than a month without even sending order updates?

More annoying than that though - in the time since I ordered from them I've received SIX promotional emails encouraging me to buy from them. Ugh. I'm disgusted.

Interestingly, I was browsing around totalwargamer today and got a random free shipping coupon popping up.

Considering I was only looking at buying a small thing, I figured why not!

Still waiting for my order, however I can only suggest that contact them on facebook you'll get a quicker reply.

As for previous experiences - 1st order places last year, took a while to arrive, however all turned up ok, and got a special promotional code to use for my next order, bonus.

This time - ordered tau so delays expected, comms been pretty good and situation explained clearly.

My biggest issue is that the website isnt updated with stuff, for example a simple stock counter, or a notice to advise: We are experiences delays, so please bear with us, if your order takes longer than 10 working days, we'll refund your postage. Would help alot i think

My friend and I are both experiencing the very problem that this "Paul" quoted would not be an issue almost a year ago.
All I now know as a customer that if it seems to good to be true then it sure as hell is. It is ALL false advertising and trading standards will have to hear about it to be honest.
So if your reading this and have not placed an order with them then you have saved yourself a lot of stress and hassle.
I'm not going to rant on and on as I will be taking it further because I do not agree with Fraud what so ever.

All the best happy Gaming!

totalwargamer wrote:
Hello All

This is Paul from Total Wargamer.

I just wanted to say sorry to all our customers for the slow delivery they will have been experiencing of late - along with any difficulty getting hold of us.

This has been caused by a series of issues we have experienced as a business - there have been a lot of changes taking place.

We have moved server - this has caused email problems - sometimes we haven't had them come through at all - this has now been resolved.

The problems with email have then spilled over to the phone - customers that have not had an email response then call, meaning the phone is always busy (it rings and goes to voice-mail when we are on the phone).

Finally - we have grown as a business over the past few months almost doubling in size, this will deliver benefits long term but short term new members of staff need training and existing staff members have been pulled off their core jobs to do this. This has led to issues in all departments.

Most of this is behind us now and the backlog that has built up will be cleared within the next 1.5 weeks - after that we will see the benefits of the extra staff and the new hosting environment and more.

Once again sorry to anyone that has had issues during this period.

Had a message off them.

Their supplier refuses to inform them of what is due to come in. They only know when the delivery arrives, with or without a certain item.

.

If this is the truth it's the most shambolic stock ordering I've ever heard of. It would explain how they are struggling to fill orders as certain items are heavily delayed.

My question to them was with this system how do they know if they will ever get a certain item in stock again? People with an order for that item could wait forever.

When I ordered things they were listed as "in stock". If they only actually order things in as and when they need them it's no surprise they're having issues.

"Just In Time" doesn't work if your infrastructure is a colossal cock-up.

Stop listing things as "in stock" if you've not got them IN STOCK!

Skorge wrote:
My friend and I are both experiencing the very problem that this "Paul" quoted would not be an issue almost a year ago.
All I now know as a customer that if it seems to good to be true then it sure as hell is. It is ALL false advertising and trading standards will have to hear about it to be honest.
So if your reading this and have not placed an order with them then you have saved yourself a lot of stress and hassle.
I'm not going to rant on and on as I will be taking it further because I do not agree with Fraud what so ever.

All the best happy Gaming!

totalwargamer wrote:
Hello All

This is Paul from Total Wargamer.

I just wanted to say sorry to all our customers for the slow delivery they will have been experiencing of late - along with any difficulty getting hold of us.

This has been caused by a series of issues we have experienced as a business - there have been a lot of changes taking place.

We have moved server - this has caused email problems - sometimes we haven't had them come through at all - this has now been resolved.

The problems with email have then spilled over to the phone - customers that have not had an email response then call, meaning the phone is always busy (it rings and goes to voice-mail when we are on the phone).

Finally - we have grown as a business over the past few months almost doubling in size, this will deliver benefits long term but short term new members of staff need training and existing staff members have been pulled off their core jobs to do this. This has led to issues in all departments.

Most of this is behind us now and the backlog that has built up will be cleared within the next 1.5 weeks - after that we will see the benefits of the extra staff and the new hosting environment and more.

Once again sorry to anyone that has had issues during this period.

While I agree that TWG fulfilment is in general, appalling (and I've been on the receiving end, but DID get my stuff in time) I would caution you against throwing the F word around.

Fraud is a criminal activity, and there isn't one shred of evidence to suggest this is the case.

Remember-
"Never attribute to malice that which can easily be attributed to incompetence"

As for just in time stock? I've run a business myself, and my main supplier used an auto replenishment system that would frequently not inform us that we weren't receiving what we expected until the shipment left the warehouse the evening before the delivery arrived. So, its more common than you may think. However, blaming the supplier has always been, and will continue to be, a great excuse for a retailer that doesn't fulfil his obligations. It is up to you to decide what you feel is true.

When I read the: 'we have been having problems as a business recently' bit my heart stopped but knowing they are actually growing is indeed good news, apart from the slow delivery which for me personally isnt a problem they are the cheapest I have seen. Those 30% off weekend deals are just too good to pass up. Again its good to know their business is growing and I cant wait for my raptors and immortals to get here which should be soon as most people are saying round about 28 days for delivery.

Just got an update on my order and they are still having supply issues but they said there is a large delivery coming in the next 2-3 days so orders should be moving forward a few days after that. I'll update next week to see if anything has changed.

 unmercifulconker wrote:
Just got an update on my order and they are still having supply issues but they said there is a large delivery coming in the next 2-3 days so orders should be moving forward a few days after that. I'll update next week to see if anything has changed.

So you should see them by Xmas then

Woops, just seen a reddit post about this issue and they and another got the exact same reply I got so obviously a copy and paste job, very disheartening actually. Gonna wait 2 more weeks, luckily not in a rush for these models.

Yeah, I've had that exact reply, and it was a lie.

Hmmmm, had no problems to start with when using them, I even used to be able to phone them if I had a problem, but each order has been slower then the last and with less communication each time.........

Honestly, I would say go with dark sphere now, they are amazing.

Eldercaveman wrote:
I've only ordered once from them before, and I won't order again, the delivery time was unbelievably slow, their communication was terrible, I sent them multiple emails, asking for some information as to where my item was, and after about 15 working days of ordering it and about 4 emails, I got a message saying the item was out of stock and will be delivered as soon as they got it in stock. Which all in all took me to about a month after I ordered to get one box of Death company, should have just gone to the shop.

Pretty much this but took me 6 weeks and I eventually got my refund, I even bought from GW in store after that!

 SalamanderMarine wrote:

Eldercaveman wrote:
I've only ordered once from them before, and I won't order again, the delivery time was unbelievably slow, their communication was terrible, I sent them multiple emails, asking for some information as to where my item was, and after about 15 working days of ordering it and about 4 emails, I got a message saying the item was out of stock and will be delivered as soon as they got it in stock. Which all in all took me to about a month after I ordered to get one box of Death company, should have just gone to the shop.

Pretty much this but took me 6 weeks and I eventually got my refund, I even bought from GW in store after that!

Just use Gifts for Geeks, the guys are great down there, I know them all from my gaming club, and even if sometimes the item isn't in stock, they'll have it within the week, and if it is something you are desperate for, just ring ahead and ask them if they have it in before ordering. You'll at least get a straight answer.

 Panic wrote:
Yeah,
Got my new x-wing from total war gamer today.
Wave two launched on the 28th so three day delivery

They can be great!

Panic...

Actually, it would be great to hear what company's products people are having to deal with delays regarding.

I say this as I've ordered from them 3-4 times and my items have always arrived within a week. But, I haven't been buying GW stuff...

A friend of mine from my apoc group just cancelled his order due to it being over 40 days late with no communication or sign of a reply from total wargamer, I was willing to give them a second chance last time this happened but they're just getting worse. It's clear they're still happy to run events and advertise their store all over the place as well as run near constant every weekend 30% off promotions yet when it comes down to actually fulfilling those orders they have to be the worst store I've ever seen. Wish I lived nearby so I could see what the hell they think they're doing because contacting them remotely evidently doesn't work.

Eldercaveman wrote:

 SalamanderMarine wrote:

Eldercaveman wrote:
I've only ordered once from them before, and I won't order again, the delivery time was unbelievably slow, their communication was terrible, I sent them multiple emails, asking for some information as to where my item was, and after about 15 working days of ordering it and about 4 emails, I got a message saying the item was out of stock and will be delivered as soon as they got it in stock. Which all in all took me to about a month after I ordered to get one box of Death company, should have just gone to the shop.

Pretty much this but took me 6 weeks and I eventually got my refund, I even bought from GW in store after that!

Just use Gifts for Geeks, the guys are great down there, I know them all from my gaming club, and even if sometimes the item isn't in stock, they'll have it within the week, and if it is something you are desperate for, just ring ahead and ask them if they have it in before ordering. You'll at least get a straight answer.

I normally used and now do use gifts for geeks near exclusively, I was tempted by the additional 5% saving, never again.

Last time I ordered from them was back when dark vengeance came out, would've got it from maelstrom instead, but we all know how they ended up.

The order was horribly slow (we're talking at least 2 months), but at least back then communication was good, I sent 2 emails, and each time they were answered (they even offered to send me another box if my original didn't get to me within the week), but it seems to have gotten worse since then. They have a nice discount, sure. But I don't think it's worth bothering with them, if the current trend is anything to go by.

Never, I repeat never order a single item from this company, I’ve never experience anything as bad as these guys, do they even exist?? has anyone recently had an order fulfilled recently??

Way back on 29th of march I got seduced by their offer of 30% off offer and ordered £60 worth of tyranids, I’m still waiting for some sort of reply, wether they are going to deliver or refund me!!

I’ve got fed up of waiting and have taken it up with my credit card company to get my money back, I have specifically set up this account to post on this forum and going to post on all other forums I can find to advise everyone to avoid this shambles of an online retailer at all costs!!

Don’t make the mistake I have please, you will regret it.

For what it's worth, I have bought some things from them in April, so they definitely do exist.

Basically, on the scale of Incompetence Vs Malice, Total Wargamer fall very much into the 'incompetence' part of the scale. The only potential 'malice' thing about them is that they've been in this state for at least a year without bothering to do anything about it.

I pretty much only shop from their clearance section of their store now.

I made an order for the tau battleforce on the 3rd of this month, myorder was despatched on wednesday 22nd (yesterday). Yourbest bet iis to pm them on facebook, I got a responce within an hour or so.

Two Months from order to dispatch for a IG Chimera

A Fething CHIMERA!

This is bread and butter stuff for IG, not some brand finecast exclusive cast from shavings of the golden thone of Nottingham.

Not worth the percentage points difference from the other retailers, not even worth the €5 saving over my Not Very Local games store.


Won't be using again unless they seriously clean up their act.

Made a small order in the last week of april, arrived in the a few days ago (mid June) after calling them and emailing several times.

On the plus side I wasn't in too much of a rush for it and it was awefully cheap.

I use TWG quite often, and for everything other then GW they seem to ship fast. With the GW stuff, i always get it but the wait is usually long except with pre-orders (got all my new Tau stuff Monday morning after release weekend). For me it is not an issue as i always bear it mind when i order.

I'm not saying that is a good thing (the delay sometimes is appalling), but when i am getting stuff at 30% off i don't mind waiting a bit.

The actual Brick and Mortar store is fantastic and they have a good group of gamers in store. So i would recommend that to anyone. The online side? Depends on how desperate you are to get your stuff.

Just wanted to give you guys an account of my experience with Total Wargaming / Mythreal:

I ordered a bunch of stuff (some GW boxes, brushset, a couple paints) from them around mid February, expecting to get it sometime in the next month and a half...
I do live in Germany so I was gonna give them some extra time either way, and their site said shipping would take up to a month, so there.

Around 1 month after the order and not hearing anything, I drop them an email/support ticket asking about the state of things.
To which I hear, that one of my ordered items is simply not available through them, that I could have it refunded, and the rest of the stuff would be sent to me soon(TM).
I'm a bit stumped that they didn't think of telling me this sooner but say great, refund me the one item and send the rest out.
After a week, I hear nothing, no refund on my bank or similar, so I hit them up again.
This time they tell me again sorry sorry, yadayada, and 2 days later I get my partial refund and my stuff gets sent.
Another few weeks later -mid April - my stuff arrives, but what do I see, my brushes and Nuln Oil are missing from the pack and will be sent when available.
Alright, these 2 items were basically the most important things on my order, but hey, they couldn't know that...
I wait, wait, wait - and after a few weeks I get a text telling me that a parcel is waiting for me in a town 500kms away...
Email TWG, tell them they sent it to the wrong town somehow and ask them to resend it once it gets back to them.
Wait, another few weeks, end of may now. I get curious and drop them another email about my missing items, after a week their reply:
"Sorry, we have a backlog of about 600 emails, we'll check".
And now, today, June 19th 2013 my order from mid February, is finally completed... 4 months, most likely more, had I not pestered them every now and then with emails...

TLDR: I do not believe TWG are purposefully trying to comit fraud or similar, I think they are just a poor bunch of absolutely incompetent and mismanaged fools.
If you want your order from them in any reasonable amount of time, either give up that expectation, or pester them with emails until they realize that they're running a horrible business.

For the future I'll stick with a different shop, might be tad more expensive, but at least you know you'll get your stuff within a few weeks tops.

Bunch of fools - stay clear

They're either morons or trying to scam you.
Can't get refunds unless you threaten to take it to the authorities.
And even that is prolonged.A
--Avoid--

Our advice on ordering from Total Wargamer?


Don't.

I think someone needs to collate data, not just from TW, but from all online discounters about the type of item they are trying to buy (from which company) and whether there is a significant delay with their order.

I would hazard a guess that almost all of the people having trouble in this thread are buying GW stuff. I've ordered from TW lots of times and never had any problem, but I think TW (even if this might well be their fault through poor organisation) are suffering from high demand for products that they can't get in on a regular basis - either reduced quantity, or items not even coming at all in orders.

Having worked in an Independent I know GW pretty awful in this regard - that was some years ago now, although from what I've read of accounts from other retailers on here that the situation hasn't improved. The point would then be whether GW are doing this on purpose, in order to drive customers back to ordering direct, or whether it's just the result of too few a quantity of goods being manufactured and so the independent stores getting short shrift.

 Pacific wrote:
I think someone needs to collate data, not just from TW, but from all online discounters about the type of item they are trying to buy (from which company) and whether there is a significant delay with their order.

I would hazard a guess that almost all of the people having trouble in this thread are buying GW stuff. I've ordered from TW lots of times and never had any problem, but I think TW (even if this might well be their fault through poor organisation) are suffering from high demand for products that they can't get in on a regular basis - either reduced quantity, or items not even coming at all in orders.

Having worked in an Independent I know GW pretty awful in this regard - that was some years ago now, although from what I've read of accounts from other retailers on here that the situation hasn't improved. The point would then be whether GW are doing this on purpose, in order to drive customers back to ordering direct, or whether it's just the result of too few a quantity of goods being manufactured and so the independent stores getting short shrift.

Whenever I've ordered from TW the things I've ordered have been listed as "in stock". They seem to have derived their understanding of "in stock" from the old joke "Your dinner's in the freezer. In Tesco."

 Pacific wrote:
I think someone needs to collate data, not just from TW, but from all online discounters about the type of item they are trying to buy (from which company) and whether there is a significant delay with their order.

I would hazard a guess that almost all of the people having trouble in this thread are buying GW stuff. I've ordered from TW lots of times and never had any problem, but I think TW (even if this might well be their fault through poor organisation) are suffering from high demand for products that they can't get in on a regular basis - either reduced quantity, or items not even coming at all in orders.

Having worked in an Independent I know GW pretty awful in this regard - that was some years ago now, although from what I've read of accounts from other retailers on here that the situation hasn't improved. The point would then be whether GW are doing this on purpose, in order to drive customers back to ordering direct, or whether it's just the result of too few a quantity of goods being manufactured and so the independent stores getting short shrift.

Well all the other independents I order GW stuff from manage to get it out to me in 3-7 days usually. They also communicate with the customer rather than doing nothing.

Mythreal/TW are the most incompetent company I've ever had to deal with. They ignored my emails for weeks and in the end the only way I could get them to communicate with me was by posting on their facebook.

I thought I would chip in with similar problems with Total Wargamer.

I pre ordered the Eldar codex from them as soon as it was available (25th May) and was expecting it to arrive a few days after release but gave them some leeway at first. After around 2 weeks I emailed their support asking where my codex and wraithknight were getting a response 3 days later saying they were having some supply issues but were getting an order in 2 days and my order would be picked from that.

Surprise surprise no Eldar for the next two weeks so another email got sent and 4 days after I got a response saying that again they were having problems but I was a priority in the que and would get my stuff sent when they got an order in two days.

It's now lost 8 weeks after I ordered and still no sign of anything. I've just cancelled my order as they have had enough time. I haven't seen a refund yet but I imagine from reading above I will have to chase after that for another few weeks!

My advice: no one should order from this pathetic excuse for a business.

Dalteth

My advice: no one should order from this pathetic excuse for a business.

I've had no problems with about half a dozen orders from TW, but then I'm buying Warlord, Mantic or Army Painter products. Every time I read about someone who has had a problem, it's a GW product. Weird, eh? Also, not just limited to TW, same thing for Wayland.

Funnily enough, nobody has a bad word to say about Troll Trader. Guess which company's range they don't bother stocking?

My advice: Don't buy GW from discount retailers.

Riquende, that's probably good advice, but I still feel that in this case, there are problems with TW that can't just be laid at GW's door -- notably the poor communication (which is a very polite way to say "outright lying") and poor customer service. They advertise delivery in 5-10 working days, but 5-10 weeks would be more accurate.

To heap on the pile, I ordered an Ork Battlewagon and some Grots from TW about a month ago, and then immediately found this thread. Oh well...

I gave them some three weeks, after which I had found a better deal on a used battlewagon. So I contacted them and inquired about the status of my order, which was still listed as processed on their website. I got the standard "we've had some problems, but we're getting a shipment in 2 days and then we'll send you your stuff" reply. Having seen that one on here more than a few times I decided to cancel my order and go for the cheaper, used model.

I respect that it's probably GW screwing these guys over, but the "in 2 days" response is clearly a stalling technique. From experience they should know not to make promises that they clearly cannot keep, regardless of who is at fault.

Wow i just looked at there facebook photo's how can they afford over half a grand of Realms of Battle boards ? I mean they only make about £1.50 profit on £100 pounds worth of GW ordered of there website , why the only way they could make any money at all is if they took peoples money and sat on it for weeks without actually sending anythin.............. oh right

Well, I had waited nearly two months for my orders made back in May. Losing patience I cancelled one of the orders expecting the refund within the standard 4 working days. Over a week later I contacted twg about the refund not appearing in my account, no reply. Today, two weeks since the cancellation, I cancelled my other two orders and messaged them that I was not happy about the delay and the late refund. If this goes on for another week I'll have to look at other ways to pursue the money.
Not impressed at all. I could understand high demand, GW causing trouble with stocking, but to accept orders, take customer money and continue to allow yet more people to make orders on the same products, seems irresponsible and verging on sheer dishonesty.
Would it be so difficult to implement an "out of stock" status on their storefront?
For the record I have ordered from twg before and they were slow, so I did go in expecting to wait, however stalling a refund has really cheesed me off and I won't be buying from them again. I'd suggest anyone else interested in their '30% off sale' claims to spend their money elsewhere and save themselves the trouble.

I ordered the Eldar codex at the same time as a bunch of mantic stuff. Things have ended up being part shipped with all the mantic items arriving but the Eldar Codex is still in limbo even now.

- Though I do have a 'you were out' note today in fact.

I've got Apocalypse on order from Total Wargamer as well.


The truth is, I don't really give a fudge. I'm not in a hurry to play Apocalypse and the eldar codex was a cast of 'Know your Enemy.' As long as they eventually arrive, I'm fine.

 Ian Sturrock wrote:
Riquende, that's probably good advice, but I still feel that in this case, there are problems with TW that can't just be laid at GW's door

What TW are definitely guilty of - and not just TW, but probably most of the online retailers - is not being open about how likely it is that GW orders will be subject to delays and stock shortages. I agree they should (which would fall under better communication, and likely lead to fewer complaints to have to deal with), but I can understand why they don't, for fear of harming sales.

Ultimately, if you're looking for reliably-obtainable wargaming bargains buy from other companies, because GW want to make it as dificult as possible for you to get their stuff at a discount.

Ok, I've now hit a new personal record with my totalwargamer order length.

54 days and still no sight of an Eldar Codex.

 Riquende wrote:

 Ian Sturrock wrote:
Riquende, that's probably good advice, but I still feel that in this case, there are problems with TW that can't just be laid at GW's door

What TW are definitely guilty of - and not just TW, but probably most of the online retailers - is not being open about how likely it is that GW orders will be subject to delays and stock shortages. I agree they should (which would fall under better communication, and likely lead to fewer complaints to have to deal with), but I can understand why they don't, for fear of harming sales.

Ultimately, if you're looking for reliably-obtainable wargaming bargains buy from other companies, because GW want to make it as dificult as possible for you to get their stuff at a discount.

Absolutely, almost without fail the kind of issue that Compel and others have had is when buying GW products.

If you want GW products, buy from them direct of buy off the shelf from the retailer. Alternatively, if you're a principled shopper realise that GW is doing what it can to drive independents out of business, and switch your wargaming habits to a game system from another manufacturer. 2-3 day delivery times will then generally be standard.

Recently bought from Total Wargamer, delivered within a week, no problems.

100% Mantic order.

I got 4 of these: http://totalwargamer.co.uk/kings-of-war-two-player-battle-set.html

95 minis for £28, lots of undead, lots of orcs.

 Pacific wrote:
If you want GW products, buy from them direct of buy off the shelf from the retailer.

Or, you know, just buy from a reseller that doesn't suck? There's several out there.

And I ordered 100% GW, 100% non-delivery so after a month I cancelled and after another month still no refund. Hanging on to customers' money unjustifiably is not GW's fault.

Yeah, well, I've never had a problem with this kind of delay when ordering GW products from Gifts for Geeks, or DarkSphere. So, I'm sure that GW are annoying, and all, but some retailers manage to deal with the annoyance, somehow, and still get their orders shipped on time. Just not Total Wargamer.

 Ian Sturrock wrote:
Yeah, well, I've never had a problem with this kind of delay when ordering GW products from Gifts for Geeks, or DarkSphere. So, I'm sure that GW are annoying, and all, but some retailers manage to deal with the annoyance, somehow, and still get their orders shipped on time. Just not Total Wargamer.

Or you know, they at least talk honestly to you, or give you a refund on request.

Why are you guys even paying by credit/debit card in the first place?

Total Wargamer have a "Cash on Delivery" payment option, whereby you can pay the courier with cash when they deliver the parcel. Only an option for UK orders, though.

I used that option since I was well aware of the shaky reputation recently... and it went fine.

It takes all the risk out of placing an order since if your goods do not arrive, you pay nothing and do not have to seek a refund.

yeah,
So far everything I've ordered has arrived and been cheap.

They got me both wave 1 and 2 X-wing very quickly.
Just placed my Wave 3 X-wing order with them.

regarding cash on collection verses credit card, people might want to pay now, when they have the cash spare, not in a few weeks when a preorder delivers.
I think If I was total wargamer I'd process orders that have paid upfront first, before mailing out cash on delivery orders.
I wouldn't want to miss out on a limited stock item like x-wing because I was paying cash on collection... that order is a lot easier to suspend / cancel by both parties.

Panic...

Well, I got my refunds with TWG sorted finally (was assured it was a technical oversight with it not being put through properly in the first instance).
Will be sticking with DarkSphere in future though.

Ordered a load of historical stuff (Warlord Games), all arrived within a few days.

Anyone got their Apocalypse stuff yet?

I will never order from this company again, nothing but issues.

I like how tens of messages are deleted from their facebook timeline each day, all asking for their item and complaining of lack of communication.

Stay clear.

After another recent ongoing issue with another online retailer I'd now rather pay GW store prices.

I will never order from this company again, nothing but issues.

What did you order? GW stuff?

 Riquende wrote:

I will never order from this company again, nothing but issues.

What did you order? GW stuff?

First order was for Army Painter Stuff, the second was for GW stuff.

The first order was slow but ok (month or so), the second over a few months I experienced everything from being ignored, to the phone being picked up and immediately put down, lies, being it had been dispatched, giving ot a couple days then being told they are hoping to get it out by the end of the week. FB worked and it was comical watching the amount of negative/late order posts where deleted each day. I eventually got refund after offering to come into their shop and collect my order, I was told I couldn't do that as the online and retail shop are 2 different companys.

I did start a hread at he time similar to this one.

I have never had a problem with them. They do tend to be a bit slower than some others but they are very cheap. I live pretty close to firestorm games so they are my preferred retailer.

I'm now standing officially at over 60 days waiting for my Codex Eldar order, despite Total Wargamer setting it to dispatched nearly 2 weeks ago. - Though in their latest email, it seems that they've admitted to me that they're waiting stock for it.

It is now 38 days since I first pre-ordered the Apocalypse release, which I am also chasing them up over.

I've even gone as far now to have phoned Games Workshops trade sales department. They have confirmed to me at least, that they still have an open trade account with Total Wargamer. Though, quite rightly, they won't give me any further details than that.

Given that TW advertisers big discounts online for GW products, and the latest batch of terms for having an account with GW is don't advertise big online discounts or your new releases will be held back till there not that new a release ( it did use to be 60 working days ) i'd say that's your reason

I think actually that was the reason they have dropped their sale percentage recently, although that shouldn't have affected orders prior to that.

So, my recent update!

Total Wargamer have now left me waiting for my Eldar codex for 71 days. It was allegedly dispatched on the 26th of July - a mere 23 days ago.

I have now informed them, with evidence, that I am cancelling that order and I am expecting an immediate refund, including any shipping charges.


I am still awaiting my Apocalypse order, which has not yet arrived. That's kept me waiting 49 days.
Although, this order (including supposedly limited edition items), was allegedly dispatched on Tuesday - that's only 45 days since first ordering it.
However, due to their '5-10' day shipping statement, I'll wait until next week before complaining about that officially.

 Compel wrote:
So, my recent update!

Total Wargamer have now left me waiting for my Eldar codex for 71 days. It was allegedly dispatched on the 26th of July - a mere 23 days ago.

I have now informed them, with evidence, that I am cancelling that order and I am expecting an immediate refund, including any shipping charges.


I am still awaiting my Apocalypse order, which has not yet arrived. That's kept me waiting 49 days.
Although, this order (including supposedly limited edition items), was allegedly dispatched on Tuesday - that's only 45 days since first ordering it.
However, due to their '5-10' day shipping statement, I'll wait until next week before complaining about that officially.

You'll probably never see any of it. Demand a refund. Threaten to contact the authorities (TSI), that is a sure-fire way to get their attention.

I already made that threat 3 weeks ago, todays deadline was their last chance to make good.

Citizens Advice / Trading Standards are only open Monday to Friday.

They are a complete waste of time....avoid (like the plague)

Just dropping by to add another positive review.

I placed a large order 8 days ago, and it arrived today.

100% Mantic stuff, once again.

They've had 35% off Mantic during the last 3 weekends with the discount code.

So, I got 95 models for Kings of War (including 10 cavalry) for only £26.

Almost 25p/mini, these are the prices I like to buy minis for... not bloody £4/mini or whatever it is GW is trying to peddle these days.

There's nothing wrong with Total Wargamer, the issue here is quite clearly GW refusing to supply them.

I have heard somewhere, it might be earlier in the thread even, that there may be a financial issue with GW.

Would make a lot of sense, as these guys seem to be suffering much more than any of the other popular online stores, who seem to get mucked about a bit due to GW favouring the direct over the indirect channels, but not to the extent reported here.

Didn't Darksphere stop selling GW product for several months?

Sounds like TW might be better off doing the same, even if it's just for new releases. Or at least a large notice stating 3 months delivery time for new release GW product.

They're really not a bad store, I think they're just in over their heads and have a ton of outstanding stuff to sort out with GW who seem to be wanting to cut off their trade account.

There is the pay the courier option for payment at least, so really, anyone ordering GW product from them should be using that, so the money isn't tied up.

On the other hand. They're still allegedly selling 40k templates that were limited stock and are no longer available from GW's online store.

Yet, the ones I have ordered, haven't turned up in nearly 2 months now. That seems to me that that situation, a company could be seen as taking money for stock they have no way of acquiring. A company doing that, would seem to be rather dishonest to me.

A company taking several days to give refunds would also seem highly suspicious.

And, quite frankly, most damning in my mind, is that Totalwargamer seems to have a practice of marking items as 'dispatched' yet not actually dispatching them. Royalmail aren't exactly awesome at the best of times but that's 1 definitely, and possibly a second. It's now 6 days since my apocalypse order was 'allegedly' dispatched. 20 days since my Eldar codex was.

I've given Totalwargamer a lot of slack in the past. But 75 days for a flipping book. Seventy-five days.

That's beyond the pale and after the '5 to 10 days' passes for my Apocalypse stuff and it hasn't shown up, I will be contacting Trading Standards. This company should not be in business, even if they do happen to have some mantic stuff lying around in their warehouse.

Well, credit where credit was due...

After repeated and continual pestering, my Apocalypse total wargamer order has turned up. I'm honestly amazed that it has arrived with all the related parts, including the vortex grenade template.

The (more) cynical part of me is wondering how they managed to pull THAT one off.

I cant belive there are people defending these thiefs.
Dodging e-mails, deleting all questions on facebook and going to great lenghts in lying to costumers has NOTHING to do with GW.

They have clearly put into practice taking Money without planning on delivering anything.

Oh crickey. I just posted a new thread about this!

Sorry to the powers that be.

They suck. Ordered my stuff a month ago. To resolve the matter, I said I would be cancelling the payment with my bank & contacting trading standards.
Just ordered the same stuff off Dark Sphere, never used them before, but I’ve heard good things. Also, pretty cheap. I’ll let you know how I get on.

Darkshere are great ordered last Saturday arrived on Wednesday and stuff normally takes longer to be delivered to Ireland.

Time and again I see these threads come up, and I have to ask myself if Wargamers are too trusting or have money to burn.

If a retailer promises delivery and gives a date or time scale for delivery alarm bells should start ringing when they don't hit their stated target.

Retailers will continue giving war gamers crappy service and unrealistic response times if you let them get away with it.

As for GW's involvment, their trade terms may suck but hand waving the retailers inability to hold stock away is plain wrong.

The retailer is failing to supply goods and services not the manufacturer.

A lot of the issues are with new releases, you cannot maintain stocks of something that doesn't exist yet.

I have a lot of sympathy with the retailers, as I've also operated in an industry where my supplier was also my competition, and this sort of fethery was par for the course.

Where I do not have any sympathy is the lack of communication. People are surprisingly understanding if you're open, honest and keep them informed. There is no quicker way to an irate customer than a long wait with no explanation and no engagement.

That issue is solely in TWG's control, and it is for those reasons I won't use them again.

Well, an update. I've now opened a dispute with my credit card company as I am now in my 3rd week after cancelling my order without getting a refund.

Attempts at communicating with TotalWargamer, reminding them of their legal obligations, have not seemed to have worked.

My latest attempt effectively resulted in them just sending me a link to this website.

http://www.ehow.com/info_8511456_do-credit-cards-long-refund.html

Order not through after more than 2 months? Suppliers fault.
We marked the order as dispatched and it didn't arrive? Post offices fault.
Refund not coming through after more than 2 weeks? Credit card company's fault.

Either I'm mysteriously, massively unlucky, despite successful orders in the past, not having changed address or credit cards or... Well, as I said, I've opened a dispute.

I am in the same boat as Compel. I have cancelled my orders with both Total wargamer and Mythreal, still no money or product.

This is the e-mail i got when cancelling:

"Hello XXXXX


Thank you for your request. \n\nYour order has been cancelled and a refund has been put through for you.\n\nRefunds take 3-4 working days to clear.


Regards,"

The 4 working days has passed and still no money!
This is not about GW not suppling retailers or poor over worked shop staff. This is pure theft!

I just let my credit card company deal with my £500+ order from the bunch of thieves.

Good luck getting your money back guys....

This thread is making me nervous, placed an order with thm on the 13th, still nothing. Hmm I have emailed them, will phone them tomorrow. Hope my stuff arrives :s

oh, itll arrive, at some point, providing its stuff that's been available readily for a while eg a Drop Pod. if its anything new (read: post-6th) you might be waiting a while

I bet your FLGS would have been able to deliver more reliably...

Talk to your bank/credit card company in the mean time and discuss that you will potentially want to make a charge back against a company that isn't responding to messages. You don't have to start the procedure but they will be able to tell you what they can do.

I think you will find it more than comforting and puts a marker down for the bank ready for when they do have to act.

CC companies are best (because its their money), the one time I had a problem like this the money was credited to me in less than 24 hrs.

There's nothing to worry about unless left for a long time. MasterCard and Visa will both do charge back upto 180 days after delivery of the goods was made (or after the transaction in this case).

Ok thansl for the fast replies, will wait it out a little longer, will still phone tomorrow see what the story is. I should have stuck with gifts for geeks, but the cheap prices got me lol.

So guys....what do you think? Is Total Wargamer going bust like Maelstromgames or are they just a company with horrible customer service and 3 months waiting time?

If it's the latter, and they improved on their customer service, and also announced on their website that one should be prepared to wait more than a month for their product if its from GW, or upto 3 months if they are living overseas in Europe, I wouldnt mind them as long as they offered 30% off GW, as no other store can match that price even if other stores occasionally offer free shipping. After all, we gamers have a painting backlog ourselves most of the time.

On the other hand, if their delay is because they are running a Ponzi Scheme right now, where they essentially buy stock for backlogged orders from the money they receive from new customers placing orders, then I'm worried they will go bust before the end of the year. What do you honestly think?

2 reasons spring to mind:

Benefit of doubt;

they are not holding gw stock and ordering to meet demand only.

or more prosaically;

If they are saying a month for GW that suggests they have no credit there and will order as they receive orders. I imagine that they will still take the cash at the point of order.

This suggests to me they have cashflow problems and are a poor risk especially when you consider the number of other outlets for GW stuff.

I would avoid Toyal Wargamer. I'll see if they appear of D&B or Duedil later (but they might not if they are small).

I think of all the major online retailers out there TW is the one most likely to 'Maelstrom' at some point in the future. I guess it's possible they're in the early stages, dunno. Like I've said in this thread, I've never had a problem with them - but it's been a while now since I placed an order as Troll Trader meets my needs usually.

I have read up a little on all the different forums on the internet regarding complaints on Total Wargamer (and believe me there are quite a few)

The facts that I have been able to piece together is this:


- Total Wargamer usually has no problems dispatching Malifaux, non GW-paints and other stuff. It's GW products that they seem to delay for months.

- Total Wargamer's customer service is abysmal in that e-mails often go unanswered. In light of this, customers have tried to phone them (answering machine) or message them on their facebook page. The latter has shown to yield good results, but as of yesterday their fb page has been taken down. That page was also heavily moderated the past few months, with negative comments and complaints being marked as spam to not appear on their wall.

- Most people only wait a month or a little longer before informing them that they want their money refunded, partly due to them having paid via paypal and paypal having a 45 day limit for claims

- People who wait 3 months or longer usually get their stuff. Some have even gotten their stuff in the mail AFTER they e-mailed them to refund them.

- Sometimes people only get half their stuff. This is probably due to TW dispatching whatever they have to make them wait less instead of dispatching everything once everything has arrived. I take it TW doesnt charge shipping twice if they choose to do so.

- Pressuring TW too much over your items will force them to place an order at GW direct and have GW ship it to you. Now I don't know what this means, as it would imply someone has to pay FULL retail price now. If that's going to be you, you're screwed. If TW paid it, then thats mighty fine of them. Couldnt find out who though from the posts I read.

- It's when your goods are marked as "dispatched" instead of "processing" and weeks have passed that you should really start worrying.

- when you tell them to cancel your order, you have to wait a further 2 weeks before you see your money...these 2 weeks are spend with neither miniatures or money, compared to previously, and are understandably a very tense period of time

- people have also had their credit card companies go after TW if they didnt pay via paypal, or they contacted GW directly and lodged a complaint. In both cases this urges TW to comply.

- people have been having problems with GW items shipping since summer 2012...so more than 1 year now.

If you have any worries, pick the "cash on delivery" option they offer.

Zero risk, you pay the courier when the items arrive at your door.

yeah,
My FFG x-wing wave3 arrived 13 days after launch day.
RoyalMail took 7 days to deliver.

Panic...

I had a massive problem with this company. It is quoted in a previous reply, & also another thread.

Eventually got it sorted, cancelled the order & got a refund, but it took months.... I went down lots of avenues, threatened to call trading standards, & even contacted my bank to cancel the payment.

Got it sorted in the end by going on their facebook page & slating them A LOT. This was recommended by a friend. Got a reply in 10 mins, got my refund 2 days later. Never using them again. Only ever going to use Gifts for geeks or Dark Sphere from now on.

A mixed result here. I ordered some stuff from their clearance a while ago, Quarriors expansion and some Mantic minis. The mantic minis arrived after about 3 weeks, but the quarriors expansion still hasn't arrived about 3 months later.

Sadly for them, I work in the legal industry, so if my dice don't arrive soon I am going to start getting annoyed...

Anyone had problem ordering LotR stuff? I have ordered non-gw stuff before without problems but I have heard the horror stories about GW orders so I thought I check first.

Yeah I placed an lotr order on the 2nd of september. Since its from GW, I think it gets the same treatment as 40k.

had lots of problems with this place too.

Was tempted by the large discount like many people and ended up waiting ages and eventually having to demand a refund.

I ordered some stuff in June for any early august tourney, waited a month with no movement so cancelled and bought elsewhere. They processed my cancellation within 2 weeks but it took about 2 months to get the money to me, perhaps they payed my bank in pennies that they polished to super shine to say extra sorry?

I eventually got my money back via a 'Disputed Payment' with my credit card company.

However, one thing that did get me wondering is, what is 'worse' for a company? Forking out the refund payment quickly, or the customer having to go to his credit card company for it?

Basically, I'm trying to work out what game a company could be playing by being so shifty about refunds.

Having the CC company involved would be the worst thing as they not only loose the money but also incur possible extra costs, possible loss of their ability to accept CCs

but depending on their cash flow it could be the only thing they could do

or possibly they believed they could win the dispute,

or even just forgot about it

If its not gw you're usually fine. A lot of online companies at the minute are really bad. A lot of people recommended gifts for geeks and well that was a worse experience than using total wargamer

Motograter wrote:
If its not gw you're usually fine. A lot of online companies at the minute are really bad. A lot of people recommended gifts for geeks and well that was a worse experience than using total wargamer

I find that hard to believe about gifts.

Made my first order for 7 items. Everyone shown as in stock. Week later i drop them an e mail 4 days go by they send a e mail back saying they are splitting my order as not all the items are in stock. So 3 models arrive. 2 weeks later i mail again as I was told stock would be in. No reply for 2 weeks during which time I sent 3 more e mails without response. Another week goes by and nothing. I message again one item is sent out, now I have 4 out of 7. I ask for a refund for 2 weeks. Middle of week 3 I finally had a response.

It maybe hard to believe but it happens.

Waylandgames are also getting suspicious in that they have extended their Free Shipping order till Christmas this year. Their store has never had Free Shipping for such long periods of time. I placed an order 2 weeks ago and no response till now.

I'm guessing GW is really starting to crack down on all indie retailers by delaying shipment to them. Their hope is that customers will soon get fed up and think that if they want a fast delivery, GW direct is the only way to go, and will flock back to them.

 Sir Arun wrote:
Waylandgames are also getting suspicious in that they have extended their Free Shipping order till Christmas this year. Their store has never had Free Shipping for such long periods of time. I placed an order 2 weeks ago and no response till now.

I'm guessing GW is really starting to crack down on all indie retailers by delaying shipment to them. Their hope is that customers will soon get fed up and think that if they want a fast delivery, GW direct is the only way to go, and will flock back to them.

Workshop told the Indys to stop offering large discounts online or face delays / stoppage of orders over 6 months ago . And several Indys argued semantics and picked loopholes to exploit , so GW rewrote the terms and conditions and then actually enforced them

Motograter wrote:
Made my first order for 7 items. Everyone shown as in stock. Week later i drop them an e mail 4 days go by they send a e mail back saying they are splitting my order as not all the items are in stock. So 3 models arrive. 2 weeks later i mail again as I was told stock would be in. No reply for 2 weeks during which time I sent 3 more e mails without response. Another week goes by and nothing. I message again one item is sent out, now I have 4 out of 7. I ask for a refund for 2 weeks. Middle of week 3 I finally had a response.

It maybe hard to believe but it happens.

When was this? If you don't mind me asking.

Firestorm games are a good place for GW. Always honest about their stock levels, emails answered in minutes, and 5% off so worth it if you are buying a decent amount.

I placed an order with TW when they had their 30% discount weekend (I ordered 3 boxes of wraithguard).

Finally got bored of waiting after about 6 weeks and eventually got my refund.

If they can't manage to get stock levels right especially when they have a special offer running, don't do the offers!

Also their communications are shockingly slow (even by email) and you can never get them on the phone.

I will stick to gifts for geeks or triple helix from now on.

Terrible company, gave them a second chance recently after trying them a while ago and ending up cancelling the order.

Chased after a week and got the same copy/paste nonsense as last time:

We have had some supply issues over the past couple of months.

A large delivery is coming in a few days and we expect all outstanding orders to be fulfilled once it arrives.

Once this does come in delivery will be within a couple of days.

If this is too late for you, you may request an order cancellation by logging in to our support system here: http://support.totalwargamer.co.uk

Very sorry for the delay.

Regards,

Paul
TW Support

Last time, that delivery never came, and i got similar copy/paste nonsense every time chasing it, mainly through facebook, which theyve taken down now.

Order cancelled, re-ordered (and received) with Dark Sphere, now waiting to see when the refund comes. It took about a week last time, so not too worried, but dont know why they do this when they clearly dont hold stock. Their 30% sales appear to be every wreekend now, and then every Monday says extended until Tuesday..

Dark Spehere are great, highly recommend them insted of these idiots.

That's precisely the pattern that maelstrom had just prior to going pop.

Eldercaveman wrote:

Motograter wrote:
Made my first order for 7 items. Everyone shown as in stock. Week later i drop them an e mail 4 days go by they send a e mail back saying they are splitting my order as not all the items are in stock. So 3 models arrive. 2 weeks later i mail again as I was told stock would be in. No reply for 2 weeks during which time I sent 3 more e mails without response. Another week goes by and nothing. I message again one item is sent out, now I have 4 out of 7. I ask for a refund for 2 weeks. Middle of week 3 I finally had a response.

It maybe hard to believe but it happens.

When was this? If you don't mind me asking.

Just over a month ago

Avoid like the plague IMO.

I waited months for GW models, they never turned up, they never even answered the phone to me, American Express got my money back in the end.

Oh wow. Totalwargamer really have pulled a GW and dropped their facebook page.

Now the only thing that comes up on it is the Total Wargamer Complaints group page! (PS: Join that for more horror stories)

Motograter wrote:

Eldercaveman wrote:

Motograter wrote:
Made my first order for 7 items. Everyone shown as in stock. Week later i drop them an e mail 4 days go by they send a e mail back saying they are splitting my order as not all the items are in stock. So 3 models arrive. 2 weeks later i mail again as I was told stock would be in. No reply for 2 weeks during which time I sent 3 more e mails without response. Another week goes by and nothing. I message again one item is sent out, now I have 4 out of 7. I ask for a refund for 2 weeks. Middle of week 3 I finally had a response.

It maybe hard to believe but it happens.

When was this? If you don't mind me asking.

Just over a month ago

Given the time scale you have given above that would be when Dustin (store manager) was away, which whilst not excusing, could explain the situation you had.

I have also had trouble. My local store didn't have stock so I placed a small order a while back, and though it took longer than expected, the items all arrived with a couple of weeks.
So i later placed a larger order, but after two weeks there was no item so i asked them where my item was, they replied:

We have had some supply issues over the past couple of months.
A large delivery is coming in a few days and we expect all outstanding orders to be fulfilled once it arrives.
Once this does come in delivery will be within a couple of days.
If this is too late for you, you may request an order cancellation by logging in to our support system here: http://support.totalwargamer.co.uk
Very sorry for the delay.

So, i cancelled my order.
I later asked when my money was going to be refunded, also i said that on the website some items are unavailable at the moment, this gives the impression that all other stuff IS available.
I told them i was disappointed as items that are out of stock should not be sold, unless the customer is aware of the delay. Is there a way of checking availability.
to which they replied:

Refunds typically take 3-5 working days to clear.

Sorry for the issues you have had with this order.

So they Basically didn't really read or care about what i had to say. I am still awaiting my money.
While they may have better prices than a lot of other retailers, is it worth risking it for a few extra % off?
Doubt it. I'll just wait til its in stock in my local.

Dudes are just scumbags.

I purchased 2 x boxes of Exemplar Errants in their sale and they send 2 light warjacks.

I emailed them about it, they got back to me same day (seems like great customer service) saying they'll send it the next weekday.

I received an email on that day saying the models had been dispatched.

Nothing for two weeks, email them again asking whats going on, no reply... Email them two more times before I get a reply saying "these models are out of stock, return the incorrect models and we'll refund you".

They're still selling them on their website, if I ordered them at full price I'm sure I'd get them in next to no time.

Their explanations are terrible and so is their customer service, its all lies, I just want my models as they were selling them for 60% off of RRP. I'm willing to wait if they don't have them instock but I get the feeling they labelled the wrong models on their site with the sale and won't accept responsibility for it.

Makes me want to go back to purchasing from Wayland at least they tell me if they're going to mess me about.

I've ordered from them and experienced the same problems everyone else has. They take payment, order stays processed for entire delivery time while I get e-mails saying to wait for normal shipping time to expire. Then I complain and EVENTUALLY I get a full refund.

I won't be using them again, which is a shame because they delivered my Hordes two-player box in less than a week. (It came so quickly that I had no idea what would be waiting for me at the Royal Mail sorting office.)

Still no refund a week after cancelling, their response on email:

Refunds can take a little longer than the period we stated - please see this link: http://www.ehow.com/info_8511456_do-credit-cards-long-refund.html

Paul

Brilliant copy and paste reply pointing to an ehow article. Great stuff.

This was about 80 quid and annoying but not the end of the world, if id ordered hundreds/thousands(?!) worth then i'd be very worried (and stupid).

I guess anyone with outstandings could just go into their shop and "recover" their moneys worth in stock they have (If any?!) on the shelves..

I got my product when I threatened to drive over to the store and sort it out face to face. I said I would kick up as much fuss as possible in store until I had the money in my hand or the product.

They sent a Broadside the next day. You really shouldn't have to threaten a company on facebook to get a resolution.

The Division Of Joy wrote:
I got my product when I threatened to drive over to the store and sort it out face to face. I said I would kick up as much fuss as possible in store until I had the money in my hand or the product.

They sent a Broadside the next day. You really shouldn't have to threaten a company on facebook to get a resolution.

I think your onto something there, they look at the order total and the distance we need to drive if we wanted to rob them up. If it would cost us more in petrol they just mug us off.

they just replied to me email basically saying "there was a coding issue, we can't send you these models".

Not even offering a refund now.

Chaos chump wrote:
Still no refund a week after cancelling, their response on email:

Refunds can take a little longer than the period we stated - please see this link: http://www.ehow.com/info_8511456_do-credit-cards-long-refund.html

Brilliant copy and paste reply pointing to an ehow article. Great stuff.

Everyone should be incredibly concerned that this has apparently become a standard line with them. (I got the exact same email in August).
As I was saying, I ended up simply NOT getting the money back from them after that and had to go through my credit card company.

So...I've finally got my money back.

Hey guys. I finally got (most) of my 240 pound order today:



The only thing missing was a box of Knights of Minas Tirith and Abaddon Black paint.

The Abaddon Black paint was marked with an asterisk on the bill and said "To Follow", while the Knights wasnt marked.

So I sent them an e-mail saying they should include the Knights in the next order along with the paint, lets see what happens.


So while I'm not 100% happy since I havent got all my stuff yet, 90% of it has arrived, therefore I dont think they are scamming people by only sending a tiny fraction of their order like maelstrom used to do in the months before it went bust. I got most of my money's worth here already, and I placed the order on the 2nd of September, so while others might have lost their patience earlier and called them for a refund, I waited patiently and it took just over 1 month (my self-imposed waiting limit was 3 months..I wanted to wait it out and see whether they are a bunch of frauds or simply very, very, slow, and I'm fairly certain at this point that it turns out to be the latter)

 Sir Arun wrote:
Hey guys. I finally got (most) of my 240 pound order today:



I waited patiently and it took just over 1 month (my self-imposed waiting limit was 3 months..)

But should a customer truly have to wait a month for this? To not even have a full order?

As stated in another thread, i am in the process of setting up an online shop, and absolute worst case, i can order it to be with me 7 working days after you order it (assuming its out of stock, and you order it 20 mins after my order is processed by GW) Dispatch the next day on a 5 day service (as i see your in Austria) - 3 days for UK. Thats 2-2 1/2 weeks.


Am asking, because like in my other thread, want honest feedback and to understand peoples expectations more.

K3 wrote:

 Sir Arun wrote:
Hey guys. I finally got (most) of my 240 pound order today:



I waited patiently and it took just over 1 month (my self-imposed waiting limit was 3 months..)

But should a customer truly have to wait a month for this? To not even have a full order?

As stated in another thread, i am in the process of setting up an online shop, and absolute worst case, i can order it to be with me 7 working days after you order it (assuming its out of stock, and you order it 20 mins after my order is processed by GW) Dispatch the next day on a 5 day service (as i see your in Austria) - 3 days for UK. Thats 2-2 1/2 weeks.


Am asking, because like in my other thread, want honest feedback and to understand peoples expectations more.

Ultimately, it is up to the individual customer whether that is quick enough or not, different people will have different ideas.

What is unforgivable is TWG's lack of responsiveness to customers who decide that, no, this isn't quick enough, and their apparently Victorian method of issuing refunds.

I think you'd be surprised how many people would tolerate a month, as long as communication was good and they still felt like you cared. By no means would I advocate month long delivery times as a habit though,

Well see the thing is, if I as a customer am already informed prior to purchase that I can either:

- order from shop A for 15% off and the goods will be at my place within 10 days

- order from shop B for 20% off and the goods will be at my place within 20 days

- order from shop C for 25%-30% off and the goods will take anywhere between 30 to 90 days (in the worst case scenario) to deliver

...then at least I can rest assured that this is the delivery period I have to expect.

Youre right that the main gripe with TW is their lazy communication and habit of leaving customers in the dark - and therefore in uncertainty - and whenever you are left in uncertainty, especially after having heard the maelstrom case, your gut feeling will keep urging you to cancel your order and ask for a refund every day.

But on the other hand I dont think TW can put up a notice on their website saying "orders from GW will take at least 20 days to process" because that might get them into trouble with GW who, after all, dictate trading/supplying terms to indie stores diosregarding all EU laws and wouldnt want anyone to be tarnishing their name in any way.

So TW can either tell us up front via e-mail (but at that point we have already placed the order) or continue with their copy-paste excuses but eventually show up with the items.

Except when they don't. Then fail to issue refunds and point you to ehow in an attempt to cover their rear end.

update:

When I placed my order on the 2nd of september, they were running a 25% discount.

After waiting 4 weeks I went to their website and they were running a 30% discount.

Obviously pissed, I wrote them an e-mail venting my frustration and told them I felt a little cheated, as I could have ordered at that point and saved 16 pounds since my order was large.

They replied back to me that the 5% would be credited back to my card.

I saw my bank statement today and indeed, 16.something GBP had been credited to my card, so there's that.

Still no refund here, or reply to my last email to them pointing out that part of the ehow link is not relevant as I ordered on debit card and not credit card..

Never use a debit card on the Internet - rule #1 of Internet purchasing.

Call you bank and get them to recover your money. If TWG go pop you loose your money!

 notprop wrote:
Never use a debit card on the Internet - rule #1 of Internet purchasing.

Call you bank and get them to recover your money. If TWG go pop you loose your money!

Indeed, thats my stupidity.

Still doesnt make TWG suck any less.

I'm convinced that their slow turnaround times is due to GW being deliberately slow in sending on stock to TW due to GW enforcing the (legal it seems) terms of the trade agreement due to the high discount TW offers. TW know this, this isn't a new development as they have been like this for a long time now. My LFGS can turn around an on demand order even for direct only items the same week, TW clearly can not match this.

What TW should do is either stop selling GW stuff or buy in stock rather than ordering on demand, anything they haven't got in stock should be clearly marked with a huge lead time. I think most people would be happy buying from TW if they at least admitted the long lead times upfront so you could make an educated decision if you wanted to purchase from them and had good communication about the status of your orders.

Looky Likey wrote:

What TW should do is *** buy in stock rather than ordering on demand

This is a simple solution - does anyone know why they arent doing it?

If they are continually selling £20,000 of GW a week, then hold 90% of the range, and order to replenish.

K3 wrote:

Looky Likey wrote:

What TW should do is *** buy in stock rather than ordering on demand

This is a simple solution - does anyone know why they arent doing it?

If they are continually selling £20,000 of GW a week, then hold 90% of the range, and order to replenish.

sounds easy doesnt it, Im not sticking up for them but when you deal with GW on a regular basis, you will understand I think, they are a pain to deal with as they know that you can not just go somewhere else.

K3 wrote:

Looky Likey wrote:

What TW should do is *** buy in stock rather than ordering on demand

This is a simple solution - does anyone know why they arent doing it?

If they are continually selling £20,000 of GW a week, then hold 90% of the range, and order to replenish.

Their behaviour is typical of a company that is struggling with cash flow, believe me, the hardest thing about running a small business isn't so much making money, it's ensuring you have enough money, where it is supposed to be, when it is supposed to be there. I can have an order worth a million pounds in my hands, but that's no good if I need to pay a 200 pound electricity bill by tomorrow to avoid disconnection and nothing in the bank.

 azreal13 wrote:

K3 wrote:

Looky Likey wrote:

What TW should do is *** buy in stock rather than ordering on demand

This is a simple solution - does anyone know why they arent doing it?

If they are continually selling £20,000 of GW a week, then hold 90% of the range, and order to replenish.

Their behaviour is typical of a company that is struggling with cash flow, believe me, the hardest thing about running a small business isn't so much making money, it's ensuring you have enough money, where it is supposed to be, when it is supposed to be there. I can have an order worth a million pounds in my hands, but that's no good if I need to pay a 200 pound electricity bill by tomorrow to avoid disconnection and nothing in the bank.

And the simple solution to cash flow (In the eyes of TW) seems to be steal (or borrow at 0pct interest by taking orders you know you'll never fulfill and taking an age to refund them) to pay your costs.

 azreal13 wrote:

K3 wrote:

Looky Likey wrote:

What TW should do is *** buy in stock rather than ordering on demand

This is a simple solution - does anyone know why they arent doing it?

If they are continually selling £20,000 of GW a week, then hold 90% of the range, and order to replenish.

Their behaviour is typical of a company that is struggling with cash flow, believe me, the hardest thing about running a small business isn't so much making money, it's ensuring you have enough money, where it is supposed to be, when it is supposed to be there. I can have an order worth a million pounds in my hands, but that's no good if I need to pay a 200 pound electricity bill by tomorrow to avoid disconnection and nothing in the bank.

Yup, having stock is expensive as it ties up cash that you can't use for anything else. Before the trade terms changed you could expect a reasonable turnaround from GW for your orders so just in time ordering worked, but then GW moved the goal posts and only friendly stores (those who stick to the agreement) get the quick turnaround and all of the stuff they ordered. Pre orders can be particularly bad if you are on the outs with GW as they will deliberately hold back your pre orders.

So as I had mentioned before I'm still waiting for Abaddon Black and a box of Knights of minas Tirith from my original order. Here's the TW e-mail I received today:

Hello Arun

Sorry about the knights - they were a mis-pack - We shipped 500 orders in one and half days.

We will get them shipped next week when the Abaddon black comes back in.

Paul
TW

Looky Likey wrote:

 azreal13 wrote:

K3 wrote:

Looky Likey wrote:

What TW should do is *** buy in stock rather than ordering on demand

This is a simple solution - does anyone know why they arent doing it?

If they are continually selling £20,000 of GW a week, then hold 90% of the range, and order to replenish.

Their behaviour is typical of a company that is struggling with cash flow, believe me, the hardest thing about running a small business isn't so much making money, it's ensuring you have enough money, where it is supposed to be, when it is supposed to be there. I can have an order worth a million pounds in my hands, but that's no good if I need to pay a 200 pound electricity bill by tomorrow to avoid disconnection and nothing in the bank.

Yup, having stock is expensive as it ties up cash that you can't use for anything else. Before the trade terms changed you could expect a reasonable turnaround from GW for your orders so just in time ordering worked, but then GW moved the goal posts and only friendly stores (those who stick to the agreement) get the quick turnaround and all of the stuff they ordered. Pre orders can be particularly bad if you are on the outs with GW as they will deliberately hold back your pre orders.

I've done it myself, I had just had to cover a large invoice, and I had other bills to pay, including my own salary, but not enough in the bank.

A customer came in and placed a substantial order for an item I didn't have in stock. I took up front payment (something I wasn't in the habit of to avoid what is happening with TWG) and because I had 60 day terms on my trade account, this helped smooth out the bump and allowed me to cover my expenses.

Now, if that item hadn't turned up in a timely manner from my supplier, I'd have been in all sorts of problems (many of which would have echoed what has been talked about here.)

So I understand, even sympathise, with that aspect, but as I've said before, what I will not excuse, and what I wouldn't do myself, is the poor communication. That is what prevents me from using them again, and unless they really appear to turn a corner will continue to do so.

Hell, if anyone from TWG is reading this, I'm limited to how much I can work due to ill health, but if you want to pay me to do a few hours a week damage control, I'm a former company director with substantial management experience in retail sales (specifically mobile phones, so I'm used to annoyed customers!) Drop me a PM!

 Rayvon wrote:

K3 wrote:

Looky Likey wrote:

What TW should do is *** buy in stock rather than ordering on demand

This is a simple solution - does anyone know why they arent doing it?

If they are continually selling £20,000 of GW a week, then hold 90% of the range, and order to replenish.

sounds easy doesnt it, Im not sticking up for them but when you deal with GW on a regular basis, you will understand I think, they are a pain to deal with as they know that you can not just go somewhere else.

Having worked with GW on this basis, there is still no real excuse (except on pre-orders).

If you expect GW to take 4 weeks to process orders, then you want to hold 5 weeks worth of stock. Stuff like heldrakes, centurions, leman russ etc, will sell.

So what if your sat holding £80,000 in stock? Only real time you want to cut back if when a new product is out soon, and you take the risk on that.

Would you be better off P***ing off all your customers, losing custom, or reducing the old space marine codex to make a minor loss?

K3 wrote:

 Rayvon wrote:

K3 wrote:

Looky Likey wrote:

What TW should do is *** buy in stock rather than ordering on demand

This is a simple solution - does anyone know why they arent doing it?

If they are continually selling £20,000 of GW a week, then hold 90% of the range, and order to replenish.

sounds easy doesnt it, Im not sticking up for them but when you deal with GW on a regular basis, you will understand I think, they are a pain to deal with as they know that you can not just go somewhere else.

Having worked with GW on this basis, there is still no real excuse (except on pre-orders).

If you expect GW to take 4 weeks to process orders, then you want to hold 5 weeks worth of stock. Stuff like heldrakes, centurions, leman russ etc, will sell.

So what if your sat holding £80,000 in stock? Only real time you want to cut back if when a new product is out soon, and you take the risk on that.

Would you be better off P***ing off all your customers, losing custom, or reducing the old space marine codex to make a minor loss?

I didnt just mean soley because of GW, but anyway good luck in your endevours, I hope you can make it work out as well as you say you can, in these horrible economic times especially.

 Rayvon wrote:

I didnt just mean soley because of GW, but anyway good luck in your endevours, I hope you can make it work out as well as you say you can, in these horrible economic times especially.

Thankyou, i hope so too.

In the final stages of preparation, so will know soon.

Eventually got my money back.

They still suck, but didn't steal my money.

Received a number of orders over the last 6 months including a pre ordered riptide a couple of days after release, however these were all mantic,dzc and not gw.
Only issues I encountered were with warmahordes stuff as about half a £120 order failed to arrive and after a number of months and emails they admitted to issues with supplies and made a prompt refund.

I've used them once- didn't seem too bad. Fairly swift delivery. Wayland are better though mind.

Ordered a Dark Angles Battleforce over two weeks ago (21st October iirc) and this has yet to had any change in status other than payment being processed.

Sent an email two days ago requesting an ETA on dispatch which has not been replied to. Will try calling them now.

EDIT: Just rung, straight through to a recorded message saying only handling queries through email...which obviously they aren't responding to.

I'd phone your credit card company and get the cash back personally.

Sorry guys I forgot to update this (see my posts on page 6 and this page)

The final part of my order arrived on Friday two weeks ago (damn, how time passes....I thought it was last Friday lol) It contained the Abaddon Black paint so I could finally resume my painting which is why I was busy painting the past 2 weeks lol and couldnt update this thread.



Anyway, suffice to say that with Total Wargamer your orders are SAFE and will arrive .....eventually. If you are ok with waiting 1.5 months to 2 months, then the 30% discount is well worth it. So dont worry, these guys will not run away with your money, it's just that they take 3-4 days to reply to an e-mail and 2 weeks to refund your money if you lose patience and ask for moneyback.

Total Wargamer orders stock only after you place your order, so first GW has to ship it to them, and then only do they ship it to you. Further complicating this fact is that they place bulk orders with GW, so just because you placed your order on their website yesterday doesnt mean they will place the order with GW tomorrow. Rather, you might be person 4 of the 10 people's worth of orders needed before they order the next batch/ bulk order from GW.

 Sir Arun wrote:
So as I had mentioned before I'm still waiting for Abaddon Black and a box of Knights of minas Tirith from my original order. Here's the TW e-mail I received today:

Hello Arun

Sorry about the knights - they were a mis-pack - We shipped 500 orders in one and half days.

We will get them shipped next week when the Abaddon black comes back in.

Paul
TW

While i'm glad they are taking care of you...


... Anyone else's BS'ometer go off while reading this from TW ? Cuz mine redlined. I think i'll be avoiding these guys after reading this thread.

I wish i read this forum before i made my order for my Ogres! Now I think i have to wait a few weeks just to cancel my order just to get my money back to place via someone else

 mould2k wrote:
Ordered a Dark Angles Battleforce over two weeks ago (21st October iirc) and this has yet to had any change in status other than payment being processed.

Sent an email two days ago requesting an ETA on dispatch which has not been replied to. Will try calling them now.

EDIT: Just rung, straight through to a recorded message saying only handling queries through email...which obviously they aren't responding to.

This order came through today.

Not sure if I will order from them again, they are certainly cheap but I have to weigh that up against the delay and the numerous emails required to get an order dispatched.

Just glad I have the box now.

Yeah like I said I think TW is the perfect site for people addicted to the hobby but who have accumulated painting backlogs. At the end of the day you spend a lot less money than your peers and have the same amounts of stuff

Its fine if you aren't in a hurry to get anything Ive found.

Yea once, never will again. They where very slow, and hardly ever responded to my messages.

Dark Sphere are an excellent UK based shop, they never fail to deliver on time.

 Bonegrinder wrote:
Dark Sphere are an excellent UK based shop, they never fail to deliver on time.

Problem is, when placing bulk orders their shipping total seems to skyrocket far more than in TW.

Well I purchased a few Ogre Kingdom models from total wargamer and I was actually surprised by how fast they arrived!

Ordered my item on the 10th November and they arrived on the 22nd November!

Made an order with TotalWargamer for almost £300 in mid-July this year, was still chasing it up at the end of September

'Delivery problems from the suppliers' every time

Eventually cracked and got the money back and ordered from GW :(

Would never use them again and would never recommend them to anyone

I've found if you order anything except a GW product you get in within a week.

If it's a GW product then expect to wait over a month.

i cant believe they are even still trading. I havent read all this thread and im not really sure i should say about what i know goes on there. Games workshop have actually been in touch with me about this company as the way they run their business is unacceptable. i waited over 4 months, full of empty promises and outright lies before i had enough and demanded my money back.
You are far better ordering for 4tk.com they have stock indicators on everything so you know what they have.

Never again would a even consider using total wargamer.

Had some issues with them not fulfilling my order, and then a three month delay for a refund, so avoid now. Firestorm Games in Cardiff, UK are my preferred trader now - fast (very fast - I ordered some 40K one Monday afternoon and it was dispatched that day, arrived Wednesday) and professional and reliable.

I suddenly recieved an order I placed close to nine months ago. I had given up on it and forgotten the whole thing. Shows that they are not dishonest, just incompetent

Can't wait for their Xmas sale, I always pick up something dirt cheap.

 Riquende wrote:
Can't wait for their Xmas sale, I always pick up something dirt cheap.

Is it the Xmas sale because of the time it takes place, or because of the estimated delivery time?

Warlord Workshop, great discounts, free UK delivery if you spend more than £100 & excellent customer service.
I received my order the day after I placed it, free.
Woo hoo.
So refreshing in this market.

 azreal13 wrote:

 Riquende wrote:
Can't wait for their Xmas sale, I always pick up something dirt cheap.

Is it the Xmas sale because of the time it takes place, or because of the estimated delivery time?

Everything I've ever ordered has turned up within a few days, so the first one.

VoxnetradioBear wrote:
Games workshop have actually been in touch with me about this company as the way they run their business is unacceptable.

Can you go into some more details about this? How does GW get in touch with you, if it's via TotalWargamer? - For one thing, I am not a lawyer, but I'm pretty sure that's a Data Protection Act violation, even if it is in your favour.

I know I've contacted GW first before, to ask them if they're still trading with Totalwargamer. But GW contacting you? I don't really see that happening.

I wont go into too much detail. i contacted them about the issues i was having. Because i know if someone was using my product and acting the way they do, id want to know. I then received various emails back from them about various things. Basically they cant keep up with their promises because they are selling stuff they dont have.

VoxnetradioBear wrote:
I wont go into too much detail. i contacted them about the issues i was having. Because i know if someone was using my product and acting the way they do, id want to know. I then received various emails back from them about various things. Basically they cant keep up with their promises because they are selling stuff they dont have.

This isn't unknown, or uncommon, for Internet retailers to do, place an order for whatever has been bought that week and ship it out the following week. Helps keep inventory low and smoothes cash flow.

The issue we have with TWG is they have appalling comms for the most part, which is inexcusable when it has been going in for this length of time (a few weeks while staff changes over or other one off circumstances is understandable but this has been going on for months, I had issues late last year) and is entirely within their control.

What we aren't in a place to comment on with any authority, which may or may not be the case, is GW yanking TWG around. There is anecdotal evidence of GW fething around with Indy Retailer's supply when it suits their purposes, or the retailer has the temerity to do something GW doesn't like. This does go on in business (especially where a supplier has a retail interest in the market) and is pretty underhanded, and would also be outside of TWG's control.

Being open and honest about delays in supply and not giving realistic delivery estimates is all on them though, and why I choose to use other retailers.

The main problem i have with them was the communication. If they had responded to me the first time i enquired about my order to let me know it wasn't in stock id have been fine. It took ne a month of emails to finally get hold of them. After 4 months i was told it would be shipped the next Monday. 2 weeks later i got told that it wasn't in stock and that the manager was going to personally make sure it was sent. 2 weeks later he told me he was sorry because he had asked someone to do it and they had let him down. He then said again, he would personally ship it as it was ready to go, bearing in mind this is now over 5 months. Then got an email from a woman there saying sorry but it wasn't actually in stock and they didn't know when they would get it. Lies all the way through. Im not the only person to contact GW over them. I feel its everyones right to complain about a company when they behave like that. There's a reason why GW ships out slowly to them......

VoxnetradioBear wrote:
The main problem i have with them was the communication. If they had responded to me the first time i enquired about my order to let me know it wasn't in stock id have been fine. It took ne a month of emails to finally get hold of them. After 4 months i was told it would be shipped the next Monday. 2 weeks later i got told that it wasn't in stock and that the manager was going to personally make sure it was sent. 2 weeks later he told me he was sorry because he had asked someone to do it and they had let him down. He then said again, he would personally ship it as it was ready to go, bearing in mind this is now over 5 months. Then got an email from a woman there saying sorry but it wasn't actually in stock and they didn't know when they would get it. Lies all the way through. Im not the only person to contact GW over them. I feel its everyones right to complain about a company when they behave like that. There's a reason why GW ships out slowly to them......

Yes, and it is the fact that they offered a 30% discount if rumour is to be believed..

Remember IF GW are deliberately withholding stock, then it is unlikely, even for GW, they're doing it for gaks and giggles, and it has been suggested that they don't like indys devaluing their "premium" product by offering too deep discounts.

I've said before, TWG are acting like a company with serious cash flow issues, but for those issues to have persisted this long and still not have gone under? There's another issue at play here, and given that many people ITT have stated they don't normally have issues with non-GW orders, and given the reports of how GW behaves with indys that earn it's ire, it's fairly easy to join the dots (albeit I happily admit its largely supposition on my part)

Still doesn't excuse the poor comms though.

Oh yea there's definitely other issues there id imagine. Its a shame because from the looks of their Facebook page they seem to have a nice little set up with tables to play, nice shop and seem to have a good local set up. I just think they took on too much ar some point at have gone way over their heads with stuff. Im not gonna sit here and slag off companies. But that whole 30% discount thing they cant be making any money on that.
like you said its why many people choose to shop elsewhere. But it does seem to be GW products that people have the most problem with.
Anyway i know i wont use them again, i will only ever use 4tk purely because the staff there are great, they have a great gaming club, offer great prices and have stock level charts. Also its about a 10 min drive from my house

I do think we all know the moral of this story is to use TW for only non-GW stuff.

 sing your life wrote:
I do think we all know the moral of this story is to use TW for only non-GW stuff.

No. The moral of this story is to not use TWG whatsoever until they sort out their comms and stop prevaricating with their customers and are honest and up front with expected shipping delays.

Honestly why take the risk for a few extra % off when there are plenty of other retailers in the ballpark for price and doing it right?

But if you only ever order non-GW, and never had any sort of delay or problems, then how would you know their comms are awful (assuming one was unaware of this thread)? Until I started reading and responding on this thread, I had no idea other people were having issues with TW.

 Riquende wrote:
But if you only ever order non-GW, and never had any sort of delay or problems, then how would you know their comms are awful (assuming one was unaware of this thread)? Until I started reading and responding on this thread, I had no idea other people were having issues with TW.

I have to agree with this.

Riquende wrote:But if you only ever order non-GW, and never had any sort of delay or problems, then how would you know their comms are awful (assuming one was unaware of this thread)? Until I started reading and responding on this thread, I had no idea other people were having issues with TW.

You are of course free to send your business wherever you like. The fact remains that I have experienced delays, been on the receiving end of the "its coming in on the next delivery honest injun" excuses and I AM aware of the way there are acting. Therefore I won't be rewarding a company that is treating enough of its customers badly enough to warrant a thread of this length and timescale, not when there are plenty of other businesses supplying the same product without any of the shenanigans.

sing your life wrote:

 Riquende wrote:
But if you only ever order non-GW, and never had any sort of delay or problems, then how would you know their comms are awful (assuming one was unaware of this thread)? Until I started reading and responding on this thread, I had no idea other people were having issues with TW.

I have to agree with this.

No, you choose to agree with this, as is your right, I choose not to.

 azreal13 wrote:


No, you choose to agree with this, as is your right, I choose not to.

What are you going on about?

 sing your life wrote:

 azreal13 wrote:


No, you choose to agree with this, as is your right, I choose not to.

What are you going on about?

You don't have to agree, you choose to agree. Just my little attempt to try and encourage you to post more than one word replies and unqualified statements and actually express yourself more fully.

 azreal13 wrote:

 sing your life wrote:

 azreal13 wrote:


No, you choose to agree with this, as is your right, I choose not to.

What are you going on about?

You don't have to agree, you choose to agree. Just my little attempt to try and encourage you to post more than one word replies and unqualified statements and actually express yourself more fully.

I didn't need to post anymore than 1 word since saying "I agree" means that your views are the same as the person you chose to agree.

I understand that you hate this wonderful website but what you're saying is just silly

 sing your life wrote:

 azreal13 wrote:

 sing your life wrote:

 azreal13 wrote:


No, you choose to agree with this, as is your right, I choose not to.

What are you going on about?

You don't have to agree, you choose to agree. Just my little attempt to try and encourage you to post more than one word replies and unqualified statements and actually express yourself more fully.

I didn't need to post anymore than 1 word since saying "I agree" means that your views are the same as the person you chose to agree.

I understand that you hate this wonderful website but what you're saying is just silly

I don't hate the website, why would you think that when I have close to 3k posts? If I didn't like it, I'd go elsewhere.
I do find your participation in threads often contributes nothing to the discussion, but rather than overtly criticising you for it, I thought I'd try and draw you into a conversation and try and subtly encourage you to write fuller, more qualified posts, rather than being one step removed from a spambot.

 azreal13 wrote:

 sing your life wrote:

 azreal13 wrote:

 sing your life wrote:

 azreal13 wrote:


No, you choose to agree with this, as is your right, I choose not to.

What are you going on about?

You don't have to agree, you choose to agree. Just my little attempt to try and encourage you to post more than one word replies and unqualified statements and actually express yourself more fully.

I didn't need to post anymore than 1 word since saying "I agree" means that your views are the same as the person you chose to agree.

I understand that you hate this wonderful website but what you're saying is just silly

I don't hate the website, why would you think that when I have close to 3k posts? If I didn't like it, I'd go elsewhere.

I was referring to TW....

I do find your participation in threads often contributes nothing to the discussion, but rather than overtly criticising you for it, I thought I'd try and draw you into a conversation and try and subtly encourage you to write fuller, more qualified posts, rather than being one step removed from a spambot.

I [kind of] appreciate your efforts, but really you would find that I already do that and so much more [In my humble opinion of course

I have put my replies in bold.

I don't hate TWG either, but it baffles me why anyone aware of potential issues with them would continue to use them when they can choose another retailer that has no such issues?

Just out of curiosity, I scanned back through the last 5 pages of your post history, there isn't a single post where you have written more than two original sentences, and those with two are rare animals. If that's what you feel constitutes "fuller, more qualified, posts" fair enough, but just FYI, if someone were to consider you were posting multiple, short posts to try and increase your count, rather than actively get involved in the discussion, that would be in breach of the forum's anti-spam rules. Just sayin.

You don't need to write that kind of thing azreal13, your argument already stands on its merit and that kind of comment comes across as childish.

I don't hate TWG either, but it baffles me why anyone aware of potential issues with them would continue to use them when they can choose another retailer that has no such issues?

Riquende has already replied as I would..

But if you only ever order non-GW, and never had any sort of delay or problems, then how would you know their comms are awful (assuming one was unaware of this thread)? Until I started reading and responding on this thread, I had no idea other people were having issues with TW.

There is anecdotal evidence of GW fething around with Indy Retailer's supply when it suits their purposes, or the retailer has the temerity to do something GW doesn't like

When you have had at least half a dozen accounts of people saying the same thing, including from shop owners, that GW has made life as hard as possible (and on multiple fronts) for independent stores, it ceases to be 'anecdotal'. On top of that I've experienced it first hand myself at a store that I worked in, although that was some years ago and from all accounts they have got worse since then with a program that seems designed to move customers back to ordering direct.

I've met the owner of TW a few times. He seems like a genuine guy and has a real drive to try and make the best gaming store he can, they've been more than accommodating with anyone trying to run events there (which again I've done) and even ordering in whole new lines if customers ask for it.

All of the people complaining have have been ordering products produced by a single company. I've ordered at least half a dozen times, with products ranging from across about 4-5 different companies, and have never had to wait more than a week for an order. Now I'm not defending the lack of communication, which I think is the stem of problems (and I agree is unforgiveable - without knowing the reality of the shop's finances, it would probably be better to stop selling GW altogether), but what other conclusion is it possible to reach than there being one root cause for these problems?

 Riquende wrote:
But if you only ever order non-GW, and never had any sort of delay or problems, then how would you know their comms are awful (assuming one was unaware of this thread)? Until I started reading and responding on this thread, I had no idea other people were having issues with TW.

My order that took nine months was warmachine, so its not only their GW stuff they have issues with

I think somebody has already mentioned this once, but fwiw heres a bit of information on generic internet stores aka box-shifters: (nothing specifically to do with TWG, just some general retail theory)

As an internet store you have two choices to make:

1) Do i buy-in stock and sell what I physically have in store and only list my actual, real, stock levels.

OR

2) Do I list everything they *could* buy as being "in stock" , but only order it in when I need to?


If you go with number 1 you need a LOT of money to invest into physical in-store stock. You have to buy-in entire ranges in multiple amounts just to start the store, and you need to buy-in lots of ranges to attract customers in the first place.
On the plus side if a customer orders something then you have it right there and ready to dispatch, but you will end up with a relatively huge amount of your own money invested into stock that sits on the shelf. Unless you really have oodles of money you will have to keep stock levels as low as possible, so you may only have 2 or 3 items of each product - that means that products go "Out of stock" very easily and by the time that you have re-ordered those items, something else has probably gone "Out of stock".
People visiting your store will often think "I would order from you but there's always something I want that it out of stock!"


If you go with Option 2 you dont need to invest anything into stock: You just list everything and say its "In stock".
You then wait until you have enough orders to make the minimum order value with the manufacturer, then make the order. You already have the customer's money to pay for the items, so you don't invest any money into stock and you can take your profit immediately out of the money you took up-front from the customer.

Unsurprisingly most box-shifters go with Option 2.

So what/s the problem?

The usual problem is to do with minimum order values from the manufacturer/distributor, free-postage and heavy discounts.

Manufacturers and distributors have minimum-order values to help prevent the "man on the street" pretending to be a trade customer and buying their goodies at a discounted price, its also there so that they don't have to deal with lots of piddly little orders from dozens or hundreds of stores because that eats up a LOT of time. Its far more economic to deal with larger orders. Often they will also have a price-break whereby at X order value you will get free-postage and at Y order value you will get a bigger trade discount.

OK, still with me?

If you are an Option 2 company you probably attract your customers for 2 main reasons:
a) "Everything is in stock"
b) You discount from Retail prices.

So,
a) we now know is a PR fudge, its very rarely ever true - they may not hold any stock whatsoever...but so long as their turnover is high and they can make regular orders from the manufactures, so what?
b) discounting is dangerous: Why?

Say a figure RRP is £10. You get a 30% discount from Company A who make it - so the shop pays (ftsoa) £7.00p for it. However, you discounted the figure by 25%, so YOU, the shop, only got £7.50p and £7.00p of that goes to actually buying the item from Company A.
You make YOUR order from Company A as soon as you have the £250 of money to make their minimum-order value. If Company A is a big seller then you can do this fairly often as lots of people will be ordering their stuff.

However, Company A has a price-break at £500 where they will give you a 40% discount. So instead of ordering when you have £250 to order, you wait until you can order £500 because you will make more money that way as you are now only paying Company A £6.00 for that item.

Of course the problem now is that you need to wait longer to put in that order because you need to have sold more items to make an order big enough to get that discount in the first place... and the result of this is that the customer, who paid X days, weeks, or even months, ago, still hasn't seen their order, it hasnt even been dispatched, because you havent even ordered it in yet! Nor can you order it in until enough other customers have made orders.

Which is where DISTRIBUTORS come in.

Distributors hold the products of lots of Companies, so instead of you having to order £500 from Company A, you can order £500 from Distributor B - the reason this is good is because that £500 from Distributor B does not have to be from a single Company, it can be a bit from A, some from c, some from X,Y and Z. So, distributors are good in that respect, however, Distributors need to make money, so the chances of you getting a good price-break from a distributor is much, much less.. which means that if you offer BIG shop discounts, you want to deal directly with Company A.

Company A, however might not want to deal directly with you - it might rather deal just with Distributor B who is placing orders for X thousands of £s at regular intervals and always pays on time... so IF it still sells to YOU the price-break order value may well be a lot higher, say £1000.00.. which means YOU, the shop, now need to wait even longer before you can place that trade order with Company A and, meanwhile, the customer STILL hasnt got their order (or part of it).

Still with me? Ok...

So, you, the customer, phone up the Shop and ask "where's my order?" - what can they say other than "Its on order" (even if it isnt), they can GUESS that next week they *should* or *might* have enough to make their order with Company A, but the problem is that they never really know - it depends entirely on what customers buy. So, because there really sint much they can say to you, quite often it is easier for them to say nothing at all...they quite literally cannot tell you WHEN they will make the order from Company A ...and they dont really want to try to explain all the above otherwise they have to explain why, when you ordered "the item showed as being *in stock*"... but actually wasnt

So box-shifter stores are at the mercy of customer orders and the order-values of the companies (or distributors) they buy from, very often "In stock" does not mean it actually is in stock and "On order" is usually *technically* correct but entirely unpredictable.

-- - -

On the flip-side, once a box-shifter becomes successful they may well have a turn-over so high that they can then afford to hold SOME stock and they can also order regularly from Company A-Z because they have so many sales. So IF a box-shifter becomes big and usseccful they often become MORE reliable and offer you, the customer, better deals (they get bigger discounts, so so might you).... at this point start thinking "Amazon"...or maybe Wayland.

Box-Shifting is NOT BAD per-se, far from it. It is, however, very, very difficult to get right, especially when you are a small company. It can also go spectacularly wrong (*cough* maelstrom games *cough*) and go up like a super volcano.


OK, so nearly FULL-Circle.. the end is near... (promise!)

Imagine you want to start a new box-shifter company. How do you compete against existing box-shifting companies?
The answer is simple: offer a bigger saving.

But you're new, you dont have lots of customers, you cant predict sales and you cant afford to make small orders from the manufacturers you NEED the big discount because you are offering the customer a big discount. If you make a small order you dont get the discount and you dont make any money!

And now, at this point, you should recognize all the problems that they are going to encounter as a store, and you MIGHT encounter as a customer.


Finally, bear in mind that not all companies offer the same deals, price-breaks, go direct or use distributors. Some *force* you NOT to offer big discounts also - they don't want you to upset their other shop clients and they dont want to devalue their own products. So they may ASK you never to discount below X or their price-break to YOU may be at a really high order level so, yes you can offer these products at great prices BUT you simply cannot afford to buy them in at normal trade prices - you MUST wait until you can make the higher-value high-discount order...and if there is no distributor that sells those products (alongside other company's stuff) then the delay in getting to that order value could be a long time.

- - - -

And there you have - the world of miniature figure sales.

As a customer we should be able to recognise box-shifters and *accept* that to get that high discount you may be waiting a long time to actually get the order... you will, probably, get it, but it might not be this week/month/year. So one has to ask oneself "Do I want the figure now, or am i willing to wait an *unknowable time* to get the nice discount?"

- - -

I am Da Law!

Technical issues:

*technically* you shouldn't list an time as in-stock unless it is. In practice? Imagine how hard this is to "Prove" and imagine how often this happens, legitimately, by accident.

under the DSR you *technically* shouldn't charge the customer until the order is ready to ship... again imagine how hard this is to prove. Also bear in mind that getting stock levels wrong 'just happens'.
There is also the aspect of "well we sent what we could so we invoiced for the full amount, and the rest is on back-order as per our T&Cs".. well, its just what happens, again quite legitimately - there is nothing innately nefarious about these things... you, the customer, just have to decide if its OK by you or not.

Its all about informed decisions.

hope that helps

Jed

Thanks for all that typing, Jeb. It's still not entirely relevant for TotalWargamer though.


It still doesn't help with companies like TotalWargamer though. Where they leave you waiting 2 weeks for a refund, after you waited 2 months for a book, to get.

The refund has been done for you - it was made to card ending: ****

Refunds can take a little longer than the period we stated - please see this link: http://www.ehow.com/info_8511456_do-credit-cards-long-refund.html

I'm more inclined to believe my bank than totalwargamer when they say, "a little longer means 3 days, not 14."

And yes, that was back in September when I finally got my money back *from my bank* not twg.

I should have checked on here first but I have a saga to add to the poor service totawargamer provide.
ordered 2 items on 08/12/13 to beet the last date for xmas shipping. Chased them 13/12/13, got response items out of stock... I shouldn't have to chase to find that out the site should state when items are out of stock or message me upon finding they can't fulfill my order, but they said they will restock shortly so I said ok I'll wait. I also wanted to know what was out of stockc as it didn't sound like my full order ... no reply
tried a few more e-mails... no reply
messaged on another e-mail address today inquiring on a new order... answer in a couple of hours... tried to chase again on the address my order is linked to... nothing
phoned them not taking calls due to high volumes only responding to e-mails message plays

final attempt to resolve situation... facebook publicly slated them on there timeline... 10 mins later a response after there normal closing time

Eh, ordered from them once before, they are alright. No communication, but it was delivered within the week, so I wasn't fussed.

Just ordered again; I don't mind waiting for longer. Let's face it, it's the Christmas holidays, and Boxing Day on top of that too!

They've now removed the ability to write on their wall, which means now we're gonna have to wait a long while to even get responses now.

I wonder how long until they have another 'mysterious accident that deleted their facebook page' again.

Only issue I ever had with them was getting pp metals but that turns out to be the same everywhere.
I asked for a refund and received it promptly.

Yes, I have had a slight issue.
My mum has ordered me some Battletech stuff for Yule.
It was meant to be 4 mechs-a Marauder, a Highlander, an Urbanmech and an Atlas, with a Hellbringer to follow). They got them here in record speed, but sadly the Atlas was missing. We have contacted them about this, and also to ask where the Hellbringer has got too (its been several weeks now) so now we await. (Its been a day, so no, im not saying their bad)

Ill report on the result here.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 azreal13 wrote:
I don't hate TWG either, but it baffles me why anyone aware of potential issues with them would continue to use them when they can choose another retailer that has no such issues?

Just out of curiosity, I scanned back through the last 5 pages of your post history, there isn't a single post where you have written more than two original sentences, and those with two are rare animals. If that's what you feel constitutes "fuller, more qualified, posts" fair enough, but just FYI, if someone were to consider you were posting multiple, short posts to try and increase your count, rather than actively get involved in the discussion, that would be in breach of the forum's anti-spam rules. Just sayin.

Because their the only suppliers of Battletech that I know of in the UK? And certainly the most available.

So, you can't really choose another retailer then?

Ordered Deadzone 'pre release' set with a few extras. Arrived in less than week.

So I'm quite happy with that!

Because their the only suppliers of Battletech that I know of in the UK? And certainly the most available.

you could order from Ral Partha in Liverpool the people who cast the stuff for UK retailers its where i order all my Battletech mechs from for my customers

I placed an order at GW Germany on December 13th, got a message the following day that it shipped and the package arrived 2 days ago...TWO weeks to get to its neighboring country; thats how long stuff from the UK usually takes to get here. GW customer service sucked as well. You write to them and no reply till 3 or 4 days afterward.

Wow, its....it's almost like there was some event in the interim which slowed the whole postal service down..!

I've had similar issues to the ones I've had with Total Wargamer when dealing with Maelstrom Games(just before they went out of business). Make of that what you will...

I was disappointed that there was no post-Xmas/New Year sale on this year, usually the only time I get something from TWG.

Another indication they're not doing so well?

they're always offering 30% off now...how much more do you expect from them?

 Savagecoyote wrote:

Because their the only suppliers of Battletech that I know of in the UK? And certainly the most available.

you could order from Ral Partha in Liverpool the people who cast the stuff for UK retailers its where i order all my Battletech mechs from for my customers

Indeed.

http://www.ralparthaeurope.co.uk/shop/miniatures-mechs-c-1_3_4.html

 Sir Arun wrote:
they're always offering 30% off now...how much more do you expect from them?

They're always offering 30% off GW stuff, which doesn't interest me. There are similar discounts on selected lines, these were expanded during their sale last year.

:UPDATE:
Okay, so my mum finally checked her E-mail last night (first time in over a week) and they have replied.
They apologised, and said they where getting restocked for BT next week, and they would ship one ASAP.
So alls good

 master of ordinance wrote:
:UPDATE:
Okay, so my mum finally checked her E-mail last night (first time in over a week) and they have replied.
They apologised, and said they where getting restocked for BT next week, and they would ship one ASAP.
So alls good

Does this read familiar?

Hello Azreal13

Your order should be leaving us in the next few days - we are just waiting for our first Games Workshop restock of the year to come in.

Obviously, if you no longer wish to wait, I can refund you.

We hope this response has sufficiently answered your questions. If not, please do not send another email. Instead, reply to this email or login to your account for a complete archive of all your support requests and responses.


Regards,

Sarah

I received this on the 2nd Jan last year, after placing an order for two plastic troops boxes on 12/12

If it's any consolation, my stuff was dispatched 5 days later (according to my email history)

I'm pretty sure, but not 100%, that this was my second query after not receiving the goods when promised the first time, but seem to have deleted those messages (if, indeed, they were from TWG and I'm not misremembering)

Still, the fact that responses are forthcoming is positive, and that has been my main criticism with how they've conducted themselves all along, let's just hope the product is equally forthcoming.

 azreal13 wrote:


I received this on the 2nd Jan last year, after placing an order for two plastic troops boxes on 12/12

If it's any consolation, my stuff was dispatched 5 days later (according to my email history)

I'm pretty sure, but not 100%, that this was my second query after not receiving the goods when promised the first time, but seem to have deleted those messages (if, indeed, they were from TWG and I'm not misremembering)

Still, the fact that responses are forthcoming is positive, and that has been my main criticism with how they've conducted themselves all along, let's just hope the product is equally forthcoming.

Actually, the stuff came through just 2 days ago. Everything was there and complete. A week before they had predicted. Now that's what I call good service.

However, I accept that this is my small view of a larger total, and others experience may vary. Still, its good to put some positive out there

Only ordered once from TW and they seemed alright but they were pretty slow when compared to the likes of Wayland.

 angelofvengeance wrote:
Only ordered once from TW and they seemed alright but they were pretty slow when compared to the likes of Wayland.

And Wayland games are pretty bad with shipping times.

I had no issue buying a ton of Mantic from wayland. They were very quick. I believe it's only GW that wayland, and everyone else, has a problem with. I wonder why that is...

 gianlucafiorentini123 wrote:
And Wayland games are pretty bad with shipping times.

Ehh, they're 50/50. I once had to wait 2 months for their order cause I had ordered stuff from GW, privateer press (kolony militia) and polish micro art studios, and this was around september last year, but I ordered from them again on january 1st, purely gw stuff and got it within 3 weeks.

I can't speak for Total Wargamer or their own various issues but as we are discussing these kind of things and we have been brought up in the conversation, I'd appreciate your indulgence to address a few points if I may.

It is difficult to run a successful business in the wargaming and tabletop hobby world - especially when you get to the size we are at Wayland Games (Europe's largest independent retailer in the industry). This is made more difficult when online behemoths such as Amazon are able to give a distorted set of expectations to customers as to when an order would be delivered. Amazon and their like are massive. Compared to our industry they have a degree of sophistication and logistical support that could swallow all of the major companies involved in wargaming in the blink of an eye. The only company that comes close to them in terms of size is Games Workshop, but then you are comparing a 200 million dollar business with a 70+ billion dollar business. Not even remotely in the same league.

We usually hold the best part of two million dollars of stock at any given moment. That said, with roughly 25,000 product lines available to customers on our store - it is not possible to hold multiple items of each in stock at any given time. We do try and hold some stock of the more popular ranges, but even then restrictions placed on us by key manufacturers on aspects such as the number of times we can order in a week or the amount we are allowed to order, can make maintaining that surplus stock very difficult.

Most of our customers come to our site to purchase, at a reasonable discount, miniatures and games by some of the most well known manufacturers in the industry such as Games Workshop, Battlefront, Privateer Press and others. We are not what most would call a 'deep discounter', nor do we offer large chunks of our inventory at 30% off or more. Though there no doubt is a short term appetite for huge discounts - we don't think they are sustainable either by the industry itself or by any business in particular. Poor financial and stock management has been the downfall of several of the larger retailers in the tabletop gaming market as well as many of the smaller ones.

Providing the most sought after products to a wide customer base is one of the things that Wayland tries really hard to do. When these are supplied by large manufacturers, they have (on the whole) reasonably developed supply infrastructure but are all to often let down by poor stock levels or distant manufacture in Asia which causes certain lines to go out of stock for long periods of time. When this happens there is usually little or no information being passed onto distributors or retailers. Even companies like Games Workshop will on occasion misjudge the popularity of certain products and have difficulty in supplying them (remember the Tau Empire launch issues from last year?)

Delays in supply are not limited to the big boys however.

A key part of our mission is to try and offer as wide a range of products as possible. Many of the products we have on our site aren't available anywhere else, or are difficult to find. We are able to use our position to bring to the community many new ranges that otherwise might not get the recognition they deserve. We have a design and marketing team who work closely with our Operations team to try and show this miniatures in the best light possible - with coverage in newsletters as well as on our site.

This wide range and high profile does come with its own inherent difficulties. Some of these new manufacturers cannot supply the products as quickly as larger companies can (for a variety of reasons). This can cause some delays when such a product is included in an order with ranges that we already have in stock or can get into stock quite quickly (typically 3-9 working days for most of our inventory). Despite their initial confidence and promises, it can mean that these rangers take far longer to materialise (or in some extremely rare cases fail to materialise at all).

Our strategy is one of long term growth and development. We believe that customers need to have a number of retail brands they can trust - and we understand that at times that trust has been sorely tested. We are trying to do better, and although there are doubtless those who will seek any opportunity to throw stones our way, we genuinely want to work to improve things. Because of this we've invested almost 100,000 GBP in staff and technology to improve our customer experience. Regardless, as a retailer we are only able to work with the information we are supplied.

We have a six person operations team (of which I am part) who spend every working hour of every working day speaking to customers, manufacturers and suppliers trying to get new and existing ranges into stock so that we can supply them across the world. We have dedicated customer service staff with tools such as our helpdesk, email, social media and live chat in an effort to make us the most accessible and most communicative retailer in the industry.

We don't always get it right, but we are working hard to try and improve with each customer we speak to. Those who may have had a negative experience in the past I ask to try us again, you will notice a positive change (I hope!).

Thanks for your time.

Though this is straying a tiny bit off topic from totalwargamer (who, as mentioned, have had their own issues). Customers are quite happy if they're kept informed about things, even if there is delays.

For example, say, l do make that order of a bunch of different things from different companies and, all I see is a little 'Awaiting Stock' comment on my order history for weeks at a time. I may be rather miffed at this. However, if it is, say, one random blister that's holding up my £100 order, I'd quite like to know that. - It may very well be that I added it in on a whim because it looks cool, than it being a vital lynchpin in my gaming plans for the next year. So, a wee note/comment saying, "sorry, this things holding it up, ring us up and have a chat" can be pretty good.

(Albeit, bringing it back to topic, TotalWargamer last I heard had turned their phone line into a robot).

I ordered a bunch of Dropzone Commander models before Christmas from Wayland as gifts, one of these I picked up was the Kodiak vehicle. I came back a week or so later, saw that it was now at the sort of out of stock label (whatever it was), so, I run up Wayland, inquired about my order where, yeah, the guys there said that it was the Kodiak holding things up. So, a couple of minutes afterwards, I'd swapped it out for some other models for the same price, order was sorted, I was happy and....

Christmas was saved!

Yeah, sorta. It was a Christmas gift to myself. - But still, the sentiment is there.


To be honest, Wayland are getting a bit better at that now than most other companies, as with my last order with them, after a period of time, I did get this email

you placed with us here at Wayland Games. Unfortunately we are still waiting on your products to arrive at our warehouse from the supplier and this has meant that your order will not be with you within the 3-9 Working days we would typically expect it to be.

You have our sincere apologies for this delay. You do not need to take any further action at this stage, rest assured we are working with our suppliers to get your products with you as soon as we can. We will update you next week with either confirmation it has been dispatched to you or an update with how your order is progressing.

Best Regards,

Wayland Games.

Which, you know, isn't bad at all. Especially since it arrived 2 days later, but hey, the thought counts.

In any case, communication good. Communication that is... Not Entirely Honest. (like, "we'll get your order out next week" "your refund has been processed, it's your bank delaying it.") Very bad.

Yeah. If you guys placed a note with similar contents as your (Jake Wayland)'s post on the front page of your website, I'll bet your customer e-mails would go down by half.

That being said, one thing that really annoys me about Wayland is that some of their products - which have been permanently out of stock for at least a YEAR, are still listed on the website with the Out of Stock sticker. That's annoying, as they then still continue to show up in search results and give the customer a false glimmer of hope for one split second. Like the Space Marine Whirlwind, or the Citadel Moonscape.

Thanks Sir Arun,

I appreciate that while it can be briefly frustrating that there are unavailable products listed on the site, feedback has indicated that it is better to provide this information rather than not have the products listed at all and cause customers to repeatedly contact us asking about them.

Of course it would just be easier if certain manufacturers allowed us to stock their entire range, but apparently that's not possible!

Thanks

I ordered from Total Wargamer on 13th Jan. Spoke to them once a week since then regarding my order and each time they said they'd be posting my order within a couple of days. I've just received an e-mail from the today explaining that the items are out of stock and they're awaiting delivery before sending me my items. Appalling customer service. Will never order from them again. I've requested a full refund.

Tried them once, waited THREE weeks whilst they were 'awaiting stock' and each time I e-mailed I got a different excuse.

One was about stock, one was about recent additions to the family (which if you ask me shouldn't interfere with your -job-) and one was the order still being processed.

Ordered elsewhere, got within a week.

TWG just seem intent on taking money then never delivering.

No, I'll take issue with that.

To my knowledge, nobody has failed to get either their product or their money back from TWG, certainly don't think anyone in this thread has been in that situation.

The issue with TWG is poor comms and extremely slow delivery/refunds, not taking people's money - which is a very different and much more serious accusation.

Also, while I'd agree that it is likely an excuse in this context, I assume you've never had a baby or run a small business if you think that it would be possible for one not to interfere with the other at least a little, especially a newborn.

 azreal13 wrote:
No, I'll take issue with that.

To my knowledge, nobody has failed to get either their product or their money back from TWG, certainly don't think anyone in this thread has been in that situation.

*Waves* Me, me, me.

I got my money back from my bank.

Fair enough, but I'd still mark that up to incompetence rather than theft, which is a huge difference.

 Compel wrote:

 azreal13 wrote:
No, I'll take issue with that.

To my knowledge, nobody has failed to get either their product or their money back from TWG, certainly don't think anyone in this thread has been in that situation.

*Waves* Me, me, me.

I got my money back from my bank.

And I'm guessing your bank got their money back from TWG?

I'm awaiting an order from total wargamer. Despite knowing the reputation it was a considerable bulk order so the discount was a big decider.
As it happens the discount was gone from the site when I came to order, so I messages twg on fb enquiring about future sales, to which they very quickly replied an error had been made and they processed an override to reinstate the discount. I proceeded to order, now two and a half weeks later I'm still waiting I have been in touch to be told the supplier is waiting on a component before shipping them to twg at which point it will be express shipped to me,

If it weren't for the reputation it wouldn't be an issue (delays happen), so I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt. Will I order again? It will depend of the promise of delivery this week is kept