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Post by: scarletsquig
Welcome to the Sci-fi News & Rumors thread for Mantic Games!
This thread contains all the latest info and images from all of Mantic's sci-fi gaming systems such as Warpath, Dreadball, Deadzone, Project Pandora and others.
Pictures can be found throughout the thread, the the thread title will point to the page containing them, this first post will be kept updated with a brief summary of rumors about each of mantic's sci-fi games.
Latest Dreadball N&R:
- DBX will ship later this year after a successful Kickstarter funding the game and 12 new teams which will be compatible with the original Dreadball game.
Latest Deadzone N&R:
- 4 kits will be produced in hard plastic (on sprues) instead of resin plastic - The Enforcers, Pathfinders, Zombies and Forge Guard.
- A second Deadzone Kickstarter will happen at some point this year to fund a new faction and some additions to all current factions.
Latest Warpath N&R:
- Kickstarter coming in 2015. Not this year.
- Hard Plastic everything, core infantry, tanks, aircraft when it launches.
- Current ruleset covers medium-sized engagements (40-60 minis + a few vehicles on average), there will be an additional, separate ruleset to handle mass battles.
Latest Mars Attacks! N&R:
- Will be released August 2014, in partnership with Topps.
Introduction and Useful Links:
Warpath 2.0 Rules and Army Lists. (80-page full-colour .pdf)
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Post by: BobtheInquisitor
Are there pics of the keepers yet? And what is in each upgrade pack?
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Post by: treeseeker
The upgrade packs will be as per the kickstarter - more figures to take the team to the maximums they are allowed per type of player. (4 or 5 figures per team, I forget)
They may also have varient poses in them as this was also part of the kickstarter, and so far we only have the basic poses.
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Post by: scarletsquig
At that price point (slightly over half the price of a $25 team box), 4 models looks very likely, as a set containing nothing but the alternate sculpts.
You need 16 models to fill out all positions and options for those positions for a team, so buying a team box (8 models) + 2 upgrade packs will get you there and maximize sculpt variety for your team, and give you *everything*.
It's quite a smart approach, they're making absolutely sure that getting hold of all of the models you want without having any leftovers is easily done.
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Post by: adhuin
scarletsquig wrote:
You need 16 models to fill out all positions and options for those positions for a team, so buying a team box (8 models) + 2 upgrade packs will get you there and maximize sculpt variety for your team, and give you *everything*.
It's quite a smart approach, they're making absolutely sure that getting hold of all of the models you want without having any leftovers is easily done.
You'll get too many of the certain positions, if you go that route.
Maximum number for each position is twice the number that your starting team has.
For humans it is 6 striker, 6 jacks & 4 guards. With starter + 2 upgrades you'll get 5 striker*, 7 jacks* & 4 guards
2 starters would have Exactly twice the number of players when comparing to 1 starter. (no new bodies though)
*(These could be other way around, as I don't remember which positions come in upgrade box)
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Post by: RiTides
As one of those who is interested in Dreadball but not as interested in other Mantic products, I'm very glad about this thread (not sure you need such a long disclaimer in the OP, though )
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Post by: overtyrant
Can we get the prices in GBP as well please.
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Post by: scarletsquig
^ Don't have GBP prices at the moment, but an estimate, I'd say £8 for the upgrade packs and £5 for the keepers?
RiTides wrote:(not sure you need such a long disclaimer in the OP, though )
Have a look at the first few pages of the last 2 mantic threads I created and see if you still agree.
I'll remove the disclaimer in time (the OP will be kept updated), but for now its staying in the hopes that I can finally make a thread that isn't filled with the usual gak for the first 10 pages. :p
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Post by: Nick Ellingworth
I'll be glad to get my hands on a keeper and some alternate sculpts for my Veer-myn simply for more variety amongst my strikers. The Keeper obviously will hopefully be useful for league play assuming one of my guards gets that skill.
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Post by: RiTides
When's the likely release/ship date for season 2 and then season 3 stuff? I piggy-backed onto someone's pledge for a season 3 team, I assume I don't have to worry about getting anything until the fall or so
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Post by: Bolognesus
Season 3 was scheduled for august. I believe.
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Post by: OrlandotheTechnicoloured
Moved over from the other thread now Scarletsquig has dug this up for me
I've just had a mail (via KS) from Mantic offering the opportunity to add futher season 2 stuff if I wanted so as it seems not everybody gets (or bothers to read) KS messages after the campaign ends....
Dear Backers
It's time for the second survey for the DreadBall Kickstarter. We hope you're all enjoying the game! It's not long now before we'll be dispatching the next shipment of DreadBall rewards, and we thought you might like the chance to pick up those extra bits that you missed first time round.
Please only complete this survey if you want to add something that you have not already ordered. You can check the items that are already due to be delivered to you using the sheet provided with your first shipment. Any items added in this survey will be invoiced via Paypal after completion, and this invoice must be paid for your second shipment to be dispatched. If you have any questions, please send them to us via the Kickstarter messaging system.
(I've not included the links since they are only open to KS backers... trot over to mail icon on your KS account to access yours
NOTE: If you've already ordered all the season 2 stuff you want you don't need to do anything
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Post by: Riquende
Season 2 (official) team logos, names & colours:
Female Corp:
Judwan:
Robots:
Zz'or:
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Post by: Dysartes
I do like the logo for the Zz'or team - that's come out very nicely.
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Post by: scarletsquig
One little snippet of interest - The Judwan sculpts are being modified to suck less.
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Post by: nkelsch
scarletsquig wrote:One little snippet of interest - The Judwan sculpts are being modified to suck less.
Have there been new sculpts we are missing?
I get worried yet again when last time they said they were modifying stuff to 'suck less' the result was zero changes to the model, and the 'not done' models which sucked and were being modified to 'suck less' never actually did get modified.
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Post by: scarletsquig
^ Can you be more specific, I can't think of any other time that Mantic has actually said that.
No new sculpts, I'm just referring to the Judwan green that nobody liked in the previous thread.
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Post by: Buzzsaw
scarletsquig wrote:One little snippet of interest - The Judwan sculpts are being modified to suck less.
Hmmm, I dunno, there is a post on the official forums that says the following (in response to the claim the sculpt has been modified);
Please quote your source? Because the person I've been speaking to at mantic directly contradicts your assertion; which means either they've reneged on their plan to resculpt or you've just made it up.
Email received this morning:
"The figure wasn’t resculpted, just repaired to fix the issues that were unfortunately shown in that photo – there was an error with the disc on the back and the feet were attached to the base at an odd angle – these have now been fixed."
Sounds like the only issues that have been changed are the angle of the feet to the base and... something with the disk?
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Post by: nkelsch
scarletsquig wrote:^ Can you be more specific, I can't think of any other time that Mantic has actually said that.
No new sculpts, I'm just referring to the Judwan green that nobody liked in the previous thread.
Wildcard for 1. Number 88 for another.
Wildcard was a terrible green and they said it was unfinished and guess what? It was finished.
Number 88 was missing detail and it was said it is 'not done' but yet when the final model appeared, the detail was still missing.
I will never trust Mantic's ability to turn concept art into valid models for future KS as they lack that ability depending on who the sculptor is. I will need to see finished sculpts before I will consider buying a model in the future.
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Post by: Riquende
What detail is Number 88 missing? I've got one and painted it and it seems fine.
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Post by: nkelsch
Riquende wrote:What detail is Number 88 missing? I've got one and painted it and it seems fine.
When they released the sculpt, his arm with his 'glove' was just an undetailed lump of GS. Many people asked if it was complete and they said 'no, this is a WIP, there will be more detail'.
And there wasn't.
They also commented he was out of scale with the other models... and they said that wouldn't be an issue when produced.
And it still is.
Instead of admitting the model is done and they have no intention of fixing it, they misled people. Just say "it is done, we already got your money... too bad if you don't like it"
I do not expect they will do anything to actually change that Judiwan (I don't think it is as problematic as wildcard and 88 were) but they are afraid to admit it and people get fooled into thinking it will actually be fixed.
A few KS has fallen into this trap. They get backers based on concept art, then post-funding they show 'progress' and people legitimate complain at the quality of SOME sculpts. Some actually ask for, and want feedback and will resculpt whole models if they do not meet backer expectation. Others simply pay lip service and we get what we get.
I will say there are good Dreadball sculpts, but there are some real stinkers, and every 'oh it isn't done, so hold your criticism' has ended up being a sad attempt to squash bad buzz on a legitimately bad model with no intention on resculpting it. Basically any model not done by Remy is potentially a model which may end up going directly into the trash.
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Post by: timetowaste85
nkelsch wrote:Riquende wrote:What detail is Number 88 missing? I've got one and painted it and it seems fine.
When they released the sculpt, his arm with his 'glove' was just an undetailed lump of GS. Many people asked if it was complete and they said 'no, this is a WIP, there will be more detail'.
And there wasn't.
I just got my Number 88 out to check out-his glove arm is fully detailed, every finger is defined, the glove is fully defined...there is no issue with mine at all. Maybe you got a bad one? I love my #88
nkelsch wrote:Basically any model not done by Remy is potentially a model which may end up going directly into the trash.
If you have any you want to toss, I just got my friend the basic game for his birthday: let me know which models are undesirables for you, and he'll likely offer to buy them from you.
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Post by: BobtheInquisitor
I was one of the most vocal critics of the Wildcard green they showed in their newsletter, but it turned out the model was really quite nice. Mantic just took terrible, terrible pictures of it. Just a slight adjustment to her left arm made her my favorite MVP sculpt.
I suppose the gogo boots might still be an issue for the people who hated them, though.
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Post by: Riquende
nkelsch wrote:Riquende wrote:What detail is Number 88 missing? I've got one and painted it and it seems fine.
When they released the sculpt, his arm with his 'glove' was just an undetailed lump of GS. Many people asked if it was complete and they said 'no, this is a WIP, there will be more detail'.
And there wasn't.
They also commented he was out of scale with the other models... and they said that wouldn't be an issue when produced.
And it still is.
Yours must be a miscast or something then, as mine is fine. His glove arm is as detailed as the rest of him, and his hand (with separate fingers) is sculpted underneath it. And I'm not sure what scaling issues you refer to as he sits on his base the same as any DB figure from my box (unless you mean that he's just smaller generally, but that's not an issue as he's not supposed to be human).
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Post by: Commander Cain
I think the issue with 88 was not missing details, but instead details that Mantic promised to add but never did, understand?
However once I got the model in the flesh I loved it, so much that it was the first thing I painted!
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Post by: judgedoug
My 88 looks awesome, and I was amazing by the details (like his little fingers and such where nkelsch's has a lump I guess). Actually I was a little disappointed with the Enforcer - technically he's beautiful but the pose is very boring.
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Post by: Vargas79
scarletsquig wrote:Okay, so as per recent Dakka rules changes, the KS thread for Dreadball is now archived. So, here's the new thread for it.
Here are the February/March releases for Dreadball which will 100% complete the release of Season 1:
MGE DBM02-1 DreadBall: Rulebook ~ FEB $19.99
MGE DBM11-1 DreadBall: Corporation Keeper ~ MAR $7.99
MGE DBM12-1 DreadBall: Veermyn Keeper ~ MAR $7.99
MGE DBM13-1 DreadBall: Forge Father Keeper ~ MAR $7.99
MGE DBM14-1 DreadBall: Marauder Keeper ~ MAR $7.99
MGE DBM16-1 DreadBall: Corporation Upgrade Pack ~ MAR $12.99
MGE DBM17-1 DreadBall: Forge Father Upgrade Pack ~ MAR $12.99
MGE DBM18-1 DreadBall: Marauder Upgrade Pack ~ MAR $12.99
MGE DBM19-1 DreadBall: Veermyn Upgrade Pack ~ MAR $12.99
MGE DBM38-1 DreadBall: Card Deck ~ MAR $14.99
I posted this on the official Mantic forums and a moderator said that these rekleases are not accurate. GIven that the rulebook and card deck have been released I think it's relatively safe to say we won't see any new model relases until April, which is when we're likely to see season 2.
I'm at Saulte at the end of April so I'm hoping that Mantic have the new goods on show and for sale.
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Post by: Black Nexus
Void Siren Female Corporation...
but instead details that Mantic promised to add but never did, understand?
what details?
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Post by: BobtheInquisitor
Those look great. I love how they turned out.
I do have a sneaky little suspicion that the middle woman is posing in a Sedition Wars booty thrust pose, but at least that makes a little more sense in a bloodsport game where players have to win over the crowd.
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Post by: scarletsquig
They do look really good. Definitely a tie with the male Corp for best-sculpted team.
Great paintjobs too, whoever painted them deserves free cookies.
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Post by: Commander Cain
Those female corp actually look terrific! Seems like they have kept to the concepts very well and all the poses seem quite well thought out. (Although I must protest at yet more pointy fingers, having half the Forge Father team pointing randomly was bad enough without anther team doing it!)
Black Nexus wrote:
but instead details that Mantic promised to add but never did, understand?
what details?
Just finishing off 88's glove I think, nothing serious.
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Post by: judgedoug
I love that their armor looks functional and beefy, and not some skintight armored bodystocking.
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Post by: Earth Dragon
Those Zzor look awesome with wasp color scheme http://www.manticgames.com/Shop-Home/DreadBall/Teams/Product/Locust-City-Chiefs-Zzor-Team-8-Figures.html
(link now works!! Sorry)
I'm also glad none of the starting rosters are guard heavy, as season 1 is a major slugfest with those teams. Nice to see some variety really developing!!
Starting line-ups
Judwan
Striker x8
Female Corporation
Jacks x4
Strikers x3
Guards x1
Robots (not totally sure how this works since figures can change position)
Jacks x6
Strikers x2
Guards x2
Z'zor
Jacks x5
Strikers x2
Guards x1
(sorry for the new thread. Didn't realize this was goin)
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Post by: BobtheInquisitor
That link still doesn't work, Dragon.
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Post by: Pacific
Wow those look really nice! I see that there is a Dreadball tournament in May, might have to start thinking about that one..
The other teams don't have pics yet, just a picture plus a list of the contents. Here is the link: http://www.manticgames.com/Shop-Home/DreadBall/Teams.html
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Post by: Kroothawk
Good thing that the Tau Air Caste team (Judwan) is released in April, same month as the Tau Codex. I am tempted to buy a team.
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Post by: Compel
I'm still looking for decent pics of the altnerative acrylic inserts colours.
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Post by: Black Nexus
Robots (not totally sure how this works since figures can change position)
Jacks x6
Strikers x2
Guards x2
jake said that you start with the 6 Jacks on the pitch and then take one off and replace it with a different model when you transform.
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Post by: Pacific
Kroothawk wrote:Good thing that the Tau Air Caste team (Judwan) is released in April, same month as the Tau Codex. I am tempted to buy a team.
Ye gods, mark this day down as one in infamy, the day that Kroothawk said he will buy something from Mantic!
*looks out the window to check the sky has not fallen*
Have to say though that this 2nd wave will really help bolster the game, the female Corp team look fantastic and hopefully set a good precedent for the other stuff on the way.
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Post by: RiTides
As mentioned, the Zzor paint scheme link doesn't work, does someone have the right one?
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Post by: Cyporiean
RiTides wrote:As mentioned, the Zzor paint scheme link doesn't work, does someone have the right one?
remove the extra . at the end of it.
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Post by: Compel
Just chucked in my season 2 survey. Including the acrylic pitch, with orange and silver inserts. - I think I'm really going to regret that, to be honest. I'm worried it'll look silly.
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Post by: Earth Dragon
Sorry about the link fellas. Works now. The picture is the Zzor guard. Automatically Appended Next Post: Black Nexus wrote:Robots (not totally sure how this works since figures can change position)
Jacks x6
Strikers x2
Guards x2
jake said that you start with the 6 Jacks on the pitch and then take one off and replace it with a different model when you transform.
So how do you keep track on numbers/special abilities? That my biggest question.
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Post by: scarletsquig
Pic of the Robot Team is up:
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Post by: Pacific
Really like the concept, and think they are pretty cool looking!
There is a look of the 'Geth' about them from Mass Effect perhaps?
Overall though I'm impressed, are they posable / multi part?
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Post by: overtyrant
They are really tasty, but will wait till they are released to see reviews on the mold line issue. My teams I got with my KS had horrendous mold lines on them and would not like to go though that again!
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Post by: Compel
Pacific wrote:
There is a look of the 'Geth' about them from Mass Effect perhaps?
Have you not seen the sketch of their star player on the kickstarter site?
He's basically Legion.
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Post by: Commander Cain
I think these guys were Mantic's first foray into digital modeling and I have to say it was a great success! They are much larger than I was expecting but I have nothing against that (though they may need slightly bigger bases by the looks of it).
And I know I said it before but wow those female corp are good!
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Post by: Rolt
Wow those robots came out really well, the femcorp are nice don't like the defenders helmet, bloodly hate the colour scheme but the sculpts are great overall.
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Post by: BobtheInquisitor
I'm glad those are the two season 2 teams I got. They look fabulous.
Mantic has really taken a leading role in the production of amazing restic miniatures. I really hope their hard plastics come out as nicely.
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Post by: Goremaul
The robot star player definitely looks like a Geth, but the robots in that picture remind me a lot more of the Loaders from Borderlands... Either way, they look awesome!
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Post by: Black Nexus
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Post by: RiTides
Wow, those bots look good!
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Post by: Kroothawk
What's up with the bases? Didn't the sculptors get the memo that hexagon bases are out and smaller round bases are in? All miniatures seem to barely touch the bases with their innermost toes which looks odd and is bad for stability.
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Post by: Compel
They fit inside the hexagon bases. I dunno why they photograph the models without them. I guess it's to stop the clear bases messing with the flash or something?
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Post by: Kroothawk
Ah, okay. I don't play the game.
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Post by: Cyporiean
You troll mantic threads enough, you should have caught wind of the basing style by now.
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Post by: DaveC
The bases are an optional extra they aren't required to play the game, backers asked for them during the KS and they added them (though they were planned all along anyway) so the miniatures aren't pictured with bases as they aren't required.
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Post by: OrlandotheTechnicoloured
DaveC wrote:The bases are an optional extra they aren't required to play the game, backers asked for them during the KS and they added them (though they were planned all along anyway) so the miniatures aren't pictured with bases as they aren't required.
(actually they are required for the Vermyn as some of them have major fall-overitis without them),
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Post by: RiTides
It's true those bots stand too wide to look decent on anything but hex bases (or wider round bases) though.
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Post by: Kroothawk
Cyporiean wrote:
You troll mantic threads enough, you should have caught wind of the basing style by now.
As said, I don't follow Mantic threads too much and am not interested in the game (only some sculpts). If official pics show round bases, how should I know then, that Mantic is misinformed and not me.
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Post by: Pacific
Actually, I believe you did say something nice about some Mantic minis in a thread a while ago! I forget what though
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Post by: scarletsquig
Mantic is misinformed and not me.
^ FYI, production sculpts of restic minis are sculpted at slightly larger than the final size to account for shrinkage, so the painted masters probably don't fit in the hex bases which is probably why the hex bases aren't pictured there.
Or aesthetic reasons where the photographer decided it'd look better with more focus on the minis rather than shiny bases detracting from the shot.
But you know, feel free to carry on as you were, I'm very happy to continue to have very good reasons to view 100% of your posts as uninformed rants about minutiae.
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Post by: Kroothawk
Pacific wrote:Actually, I believe you did say something nice about some Mantic minis in a thread a while ago! I forget what though
Previous page?
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Post by: Zwan1One
I really hope some of these teams make the jump to warpath. Those robots are quite delicious. Dreadball really shows the way they need to take warpath with the armies.
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Post by: Earth Dragon
I really just wanna see the bug finished product. Automatically Appended Next Post: And does anyone know if there will be like a small rules insert in with the new teams so we aren't forced to buy a season 2 rulebook?
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Post by: BobtheInquisitor
If you pledged in the kickstarter, you'll get a pdf. Otherwise...
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Post by: Earth Dragon
I'm in the otherwise category. I hope paying through the nose isn't gonna be the way of things if you didn't happen to stumble upon the kickstarter. I don't really feel I should have to buy a new rulebook every 4 months just to pay a new team upon release
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Post by: Black Nexus
It's a whole £10 for a book with four teams and all nine mvps plus all of the other stuff... its not really a massive amount of money for what you get. i'd be surprised if the stats weren't in the box but i suspect if theres new special rules they might struggle to get them all on...
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Post by: BobtheInquisitor
That's more than the Malifaux rulebook. For Americans, with our decreasing purchasing power, stagnant wages and rising cost of living, anything with a pound sign in front of it is intimidatingly expensive.
I'm not sure how much of that is joking, actually.
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Post by: Cyporiean
BobtheInquisitor wrote:That's more than the Malifaux rulebook. For Americans, with our decreasing purchasing power, stagnant wages and rising cost of living, anything with a pound sign in front of it is intimidatingly expensive.
I'm not sure how much of that is joking, actually.
The Malifaux 1.5 book is $35, £10 is about $15.
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Post by: Ashitaka
But the mini rulebook is $12.
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Post by: Cyporiean
$15. I'd forgotten it existed since I don't play Malifaux.
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Post by: OrlandotheTechnicoloured
Got a Happy Easter newsletter with Orx vs Judwan shown
so the judwan didn't get a resculpt (I'm happy coz I liked them, many KS backers may not be as the sculpt shown wasn't popular)
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Post by: scarletsquig
Bigger picture:
Love the background for these guys, but the sculpts aren't my favourites, they seem a bit stiff.
Other than the running guy, you don't really get a sense of what it is that they're trying to do on the field..I'm not sure what the both arms outstretched, one bent, one straight while standing static and facing forwards pose would be used for on the pitch.
With a team of 100% strikers that are super-fast, you'd expect a big sense of motion from the models with pretty much all of them running or in some kind of super-dynamic stretched-out alien pose. Deciding that most of the models should have static posing was the main error here I think.
It's also possible that the concept art on these simply doesn't translate well to 3d... I think the thin cylindrical stomachs combined with the bulked out heavy armour on the chests are the main thing that seems odd... the heavy armour is at odds with the rest of the sculpt.
I do absolutely love the robots and female corp though, and am really looking forward to the Zz'or.
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Post by: nkelsch
So yet again... The Greens had issues with the feet and the pose... and they said 'Do not worry, we will fix it. The pose will be flat-footed and standing'
And gosh, the feet are still messed up, the pose is like he just got punched in the chest and falling on his ass. Exactly like the greens. His toes are up in the air!
I feel like everything I see from Mantic is they don't take feedback, and because of multiple rounds of ignoring feedback, they don't share WIPs anymore.
If they were not going to resculpt... SAY IT. Accept some people don't like a sculpt. Don't pander by saying it will be fixed or WIP and then do nothing.
So the lesson is wait until the final product for all Mantic models.
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Post by: Kroothawk
scarletsquig wrote:Other than the running guy, you don't really get a sense of what it is that they're trying to do on the field..I'm not sure what the both arms outstretched, one bent, one straight while standing static and facing forwards pose would be used for on the pitch.
With a team of 100% strikers that are super-fast, you'd expect a big sense of motion from the models with pretty much all of them running or in some kind of super-dynamic stretched-out alien pose. Deciding that most of the models should have static posing was the main error here I think.
Wasn't me who posted this
Actually, those sculpts work for me, as Tau Air Caste organising an evacuation by shuttle.
It is even okay that the "runner" has no proper running pose, as I use him to mount a hovering shuttle.
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Post by: Compel
I guess I can understand the complaints about the posing. Although, they still really do look fine to me. - I definitely see myself taking them for the occasional spin.
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Post by: RiTides
I don't mind them... not a homerun, though.
Mantic is still inconsistent enough that I don't think I could back anything of theirs based off of concept art... except the Nameless team which I did because, hey, tentacled aliens
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Post by: Azazelx
scarletsquig wrote:Bigger picture:
Love the background for these guys, but the sculpts aren't my favourites, they seem a bit stiff.
Other than the running guy, you don't really get a sense of what it is that they're trying to do on the field..I'm not sure what the both arms outstretched, one bent, one straight while standing static and facing forwards pose would be used for on the pitch.
With a team of 100% strikers that are super-fast, you'd expect a big sense of motion from the models with pretty much all of them running or in some kind of super-dynamic stretched-out alien pose. Deciding that most of the models should have static posing was the main error here I think.
The problem is with the Mantic style of basing. A small circle that fits into a slightly bigger circle. Slotta-type figures would give all of their ranges much more freedom of foot-movement and posing.
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Post by: Pacific
Interesting point Azazelx (is that really you Scipio? What happened to the other log-in?)
As ScarletSquig says I think they would definitely have benefited from some more dynamic posing. That being said I don't think they are bad, but I definitely prefer the new Bots and female corp team.
Really starting to like some of the new stuff coming out for Dreadball, the style and design aesthetic they are using is really cool.
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Post by: RiTides
Pacific wrote:As ScarletSquig says I think they would definitely have benefited from some more dynamic posing. That being said I don't think they are bad, but I definitely prefer the new Bots and female corp team.
Really starting to like some of the new stuff coming out for Dreadball, the style and design aesthetic they are using is really cool.
Yeah, I agree! On all counts. Definitely looking forward to my Nameless later in the year
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Post by: Agamemnon2
nkelsch wrote:If they were not going to resculpt... SAY IT. Accept some people don't like a sculpt. Don't pander by saying it will be fixed or WIP and then do nothing.
So the lesson is wait until the final product for all Mantic models.
It seems that Mantic's just saying whatever they think the crowd wants to hear, then blundering on regardless. I'm guessing they will move further towards a GW-like publicity policy, going from a conversation to a marketing declaration.If so, it's high time to abandon that particular ship.
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Post by: Azazelx
Pacific wrote:Interesting point Azazelx (is that really you Scipio? What happened to the other log-in?)
Yeah, just renamed this account (which is over 8 years old) to match up better with my accounts on other forums, and more importantly my blog where I have painted minis and so on.
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Post by: Earth Dragon
If you guys haven't played the game yet, they have to watch the sculpts that they don't stick out too far. I'm guessing these aren't overly dynamic as to not bump into all the other players. There was some better positions I think they could have done, but then again I have NO interest playing an all striker team.
My biggest issue is why didn't they do 4 sculpts versus three. They don't have positions, so why not make them more varied in appearance? I understand non posable due to needing to know what position they play, but for teams like the Judawan and the rats, they could have opened up the posed a little more.
Oh well. Hopefully the game is around long enough for them to redo some of these teams. So far the Humans and Forge Fathers are the only two that look great IMHO
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Post by: judgedoug
Agamemnon2 wrote: I'm guessing they will move further towards a GW-like publicity policy, going from a conversation to a marketing declaration.If so, it's high time to abandon that particular ship.
took me a while to realize this was satire.
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Post by: Black Nexus
My biggest issue is why didn't they do 4 sculpts versus three. They don't have positions, so why not make them more varied in appearance? I understand non posable due to needing to know what position they play, but for teams like the Judawan and the rats, they could have opened up the posed a little more.
'spect they'll get alternate sculpts like the other teams whent he time is Right.
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Post by: Bolognesus
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Post by: judgedoug
those look badass.
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Post by: timetowaste85
Wow...those Zz'or are AMAZING! I can't wait for mine to arrive.
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Post by: Krinsath
The Judwan are an "eh" entry for me model-wise, but the other three times are great-looking in my opinion. The Judwan MVP looks excellent with his paintjob as well.
Still need to read all the rules, but so far I'd give Season 2 a
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Post by: Bolognesus
The female human team is pretty damn awesome as well - just the right look. visibly feminine but they also look like they can take quite a beating.
...Now just to paint them without the horrible pink accents
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Post by: Saxon
The female Corp have a great paint job. Actually think the pink is subtle and looks good.
As for the bugs... Wow!!! They look awesome!!!!
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Post by: Bolognesus
...To each his own, I guess
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Post by: DaveC
The Cheerleaders and Coaches are in the rulebook as well
1
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Post by: Compel
I'm liking!
Though, I'm not too sure about the random tennis balls that seem to be stuck on the Zzor guards shoulder.
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Post by: overtyrant
Love the Judwan and there rules are great! A striker team with a move of 6 a speed of 3+ and a skill of 4+! Love it there skills are great as well though they cant score bonus points seems much like a balancing factor cant waif to get mine!
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Post by: Nick Ellingworth
I need that Veermyn coach....
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Post by: Buzzsaw
I especially like how the rules for the female Corporation team make it explicit that they merely represent a different coaching/training style, and it's perfectly appropriate to run female Corporate models mixed with Males for a team using either rules (just not mixing rules*).
That's a great move I think, since it effectively doubles the sculpts available in Corporate teams, and gives you the ability to shake up your play style without needing all new models (thought I must say I am very happy to have gotten the female team).
*That is, you can run any mix of Corporation (male/female) models with either the Season 1 rules or the Season 2 rules.
I also really like that with the errata and changes at the end of the book, they go into the reasoning behind their changes. Just enjoy that little peek behind the curtain.
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Post by: OrlandotheTechnicoloured
I've downloaded my copy now,
but I havn't got time to read it yet, sigh
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Post by: Pacific
Really pleased with the season 2 releases, think Mantic have really upped their game now! They've managed to keep the prices very reasonable, and arguably their quality has taken a big step forward.
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Post by: Divine_Tyranny
The Z'zor were alot of fun to paint, glad most of you like them
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Post by: Bolognesus
Now I've actually taken the time to take more than a passing glance at them, I must say something does feel "off" with the cheerleaders to me. Might just be good ol' 28mm angular face syndrome due to the paint job, or that the knees are all rather close together (though admittedly googling some cheerleaders - a decidedly American concept, if I'm not mistaken, so rather unfamiliar with it here) that does seem to be the more 'realistic' approach, actually.
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Post by: scarletsquig
The Zzor are looking amazing, can't wait for the Warpath release for them.
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Post by: Earth Dragon
http://db.chezalex.net/index.php
Please participate in recording dreadball game data. It's an interesting tool to see which teams do well against which.
Can someone please post the starting roster stats for the teams? I interested to see what abilities teams start out with.
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Post by: RiTides
The bugs look good, but they've got to start taking pics of these things on hex bases! The big guy looks like he's floating in space...
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Post by: scarletsquig
Just went to a local gaming show that had all the season 2 models on display (I also got in a demo game of dreadball and beat up some orcs with my puny humans!), so here's a crappy cellphone pic. :p
I have to say, all of the season 2 models look amazing IRL, even the Judwan are actually extremely nice models, changing my previous opinion of them completely.
You guys won't be disappointed when your next shipment arrives, they're some really great minis.
The Zz'or are looking amazing, definitely the season 2 team I want to get hold of, and I can't wait for them to be a warpath race, they've really nailed the look and they are definitely a lot different to tyranids/ arachnids or other types of insectoid aliens, they're closer to actual insects or praying mantises in design and look nice and freaky.
Oh, and the Zz'or guard is huge, he doesn't actually fit on the circle base (in fact only just fits on to a hex base) so they've had to make 4 extension pieces on top of the circle base for the legs to stand on. It works pretty well, I'm not sure if you can see it in that pic, but the extension pieces are shaped to look like a backwards pointing claw rather than just a block of plastic like what the veermyn guard had.
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Post by: Nick Ellingworth
Yep the season stuff does look very good, didn't have time to get a game at Diceni but I did at least get a good look at the new models. As I have said previously I need that Veermyn coach.
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Post by: Kroothawk
Two more previews:
While I liked the concept for the Judwan champion, I am not happy with pose, esp. when you put the miniature on the disco coloured board.
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Post by: BobtheInquisitor
He's slam dunking. His pose actually makes sense for a striker...sort of.
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Post by: Earth Dragon
Has anyone gotten the keeper models? And is there anyone who can post just the starting roster data for the season 2 teams? (or PM me with it if that is against some sort of user agreement. I'm still gonna get the book)
Thanks!!
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Post by: Earth Dragon
So nothing on the Keeper Models? Haven't seen any in person and thought they'd be out before Season 2 hit shelves
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Post by: Riquende
The season 1 keepers were on the season 2 pledge manager, so I reckon they'll be out soon.
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Post by: DaveC
From update #104
While Season 2 is still very much on track, the additional Season 1 models are running slightly behind, and rather than rush the production we have have made the decision to delay these models until the Season 3 shipment in Q3. This affects the additional sculpts from the Keeper, Jack and Striker pledges to take your teams to 14 players, as well as the prone figures and Keepers. These team upgrades will now arrive alongside their Season 2 and 3 counterparts later in the year.
So no Keepers until the Q3 delivery
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Post by: Earth Dragon
Makes sense (at least for season 2) to get the new teams out first. I would hope though that ensuring the first 8 were fleshed out with the keepers at least would be a priority over giving us more teams. 8 is a great number to be at if it takes them an extra month to get all the loose ends tied before sending out 4 more. Automatically Appended Next Post: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/518814.page
I didn't want to de-rail the news thread, so I posted my opinion of how the new teams might interact with the old teams here.
I'd love to get some more thoughts on the matter with other players!!
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Post by: timetowaste85
New info on the Kickstarter, and buzzcut's picture is up and painted. Looks great. I can't add it to the thread on my phone, but if someone else can...
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Post by: OrlandotheTechnicoloured
image added
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Post by: timetowaste85
Thanks dude
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Post by: DaveC
And Firewall is in the newsletter
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Post by: Earth Dragon
does anyone else (who DIDN'T do kickstater) think that the Season 2 Launch Pack is a bit pricey? At $175, it just seems like you really aren't getting anything for buying "everything" except for the Penny arcade MVP.
Perhaps if I planned on doing all the Season 2 teams this would seem appealing, but a couple of them don't really hold a lot of my interest, and I have enough human models at this point, I don't really need the Ladies to field a team with their rule set.
Does anyone feel it is a good buy (again, the kickstarter people are gonna have a scewed opinion, so I'd rather hear from the people who missed it).
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Post by: nkelsch
Buzzcut is a huge disappointment... Fantastic concept art turned bad miniature. Not every model needs some wacky dynamic pose, Buzzcut just being a huge hulking brute would have been fine.
This is exactly how the screwed up the marauder Warboss metal. They had an awesome concept art then gave the model such a twisted, unreal annoying pose, it ruined the model.
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Post by: Commander Cain
Why is Buzzcut painted with flesh tones? I though he was an orc?
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Post by: nkelsch
That too... He looked fine as an Ork, he looks like an unreasonable cartoon as a human.
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Post by: Earth Dragon
I never thought he was an Orc. I thought he was some sort of Simian. Completely agreed with the pose. I feel he should have been standing with hands raised with balled fists about to "hulk smash" someone. Not only would it make the model look even taller, it would make it to where you'd want to just avoid the guy.
At any rate, I feel there will be more ejections trying to sucker punch that guy then any other foul situation
Automatically Appended Next Post:
(And Since my last post might have gotten lost on the bottom of the last page)
does anyone else (who DIDN'T do kickstater) think that the Season 2 Launch Pack is a bit pricey? At $175, it just seems like you really aren't getting anything for buying "everything" except for the Penny arcade MVP.
Perhaps if I planned on doing all the Season 2 teams this would seem appealing, but a couple of them don't really hold a lot of my interest, and I have enough human models at this point, I don't really need the Ladies to field a team with their rule set.
Does anyone feel it is a good buy (again, the kickstarter people are gonna have a scewed opinion, so I'd rather hear from the people who missed it).
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Post by: OrlandotheTechnicoloured
Painted Firewall MVP in the latest mantic newsletter
image removed coz DaveC got there first (again), top ninja-ing sir
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Post by: DaveC
I believe he's an Ogre not an Orc hence the human flesh tone I think mine will be getting green skin though that's how I pictured him.
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Post by: PsychoticStorm
Personally I like the pose, but I to was under the impression that he was an orc.
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Post by: RiTides
DaveC wrote:
I believe he's an Ogre not an Orc hence the human flesh tone I think mine will be getting green skin though that's how I pictured him.
Yeah, and I think the paint job is letting that model down more than anything ( imo).
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Post by: Azazelx
Yeah, neither the pose nor the white t-shirt are doing much for him...
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Post by: timetowaste85
I like the model-I think it's good, and you can make the white shirt work-use white, then a badab black wash. Check oh my relic ogryn in my gallery to see how it looks.
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Post by: Earth Dragon
Maybe that's the point of the fig. He's a dude that grabs whatever out of the closet and wears it when he goes out lol
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Post by: nkelsch
Someone should digibash him green to see if that helps for those expecting him to be an orx.
The shirt is fine, the pose is just odd. It is what I would expect a cartoon giant trying to stomp on a tiny person would look like. Not every model needs to be doing some crazy pose. I think that is why the Zzor and Bots appeal so much because they are very simple poses which show off the model without ruining it with some crazy pose.
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Post by: BobtheInquisitor
What's so odd about his pose? He's running, Juggernaut-style.
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Post by: Kroothawk
Upper body is at end of a step, lower body is in the middle of a step. Together it looks like he is dancing on the spot, like the Jadwan champ.
Guess the tiny base leads sculptors to make odd compromises with poses.
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Post by: Krinsath
Kroothawk wrote:
Upper body is at end of a step, lower body is in the middle of a step. Together it looks like he is dancing on the spot, like the Jadwan champ.
Guess the tiny base leads sculptors to make odd compromises with poses.
Getting into "art is subjective" when I look at the model I see him about to sweep his right arm across to shove an opponent to the side while barreling towards his final target. Not to say there aren't better poses they could have gone with, but it seems fairly normal for the DB MVPs to have that kind of "action shot" posing where they're sculpted doing something versus a generic "at the ready" pose.
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Post by: Earth Dragon
Kroothawk wrote:
Upper body is at end of a step, lower body is in the middle of a step. Together it looks like he is dancing on the spot, like the Jadwan champ.
Guess the tiny base leads sculptors to make odd compromises with poses.
Perhaps they have a "Dancing with the Stars" supplement coming out later?
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Post by: Dr. Bizarre
Hey guys. The brief I was given for Buzzcut was that he's not an orc, and should have tanned skin. Other than that I was free to do what I wanted. I went with a white t-shirt because his description says he often plays stripped to the waist, so this is his underwear. I also wanted to keep him bright and clean, as we have to bear in mind photography. He is a great model and you will have a lot of fun painting him, (even if he does look like he's skanking).
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Post by: Black Nexus
he's more ogrish than orcish... doesn't look anything like the orcs.
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Post by: Dr. Bizarre
Exactly. Nowhere in the fluff is he described as an orc. He's a one-off. At least, for the moment...
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Post by: nkelsch
He looks exactly like the Orx models, same proportions and even armor style.
And now he is bowling an invisible bowling ball. His back hand is 'open' for no reason.
The model gets worse and worse the more versions and angles of him I see.
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Post by: scarletsquig
I think the sculpt is great don't see what the fuss is about, paint him like an orc and be done with it.
I also like the Judwan having seen them in person, there's something about the skinnier models that Mantic makes that just doesn't come across well in photographs.
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Post by: Earth Dragon
Like one poster mentioned, it will probably make more sense when you have another model to his side and it makes it more apparent that he is "batting" someone out of the way as he is charging someone else. I still feel he could he utilized a hulk smash look though with double balled fists raised as if he was about to crush someone.
And I never read anywhere that he was an Ork. I understand the confusion, but it really should be cased closed that he isn't at this point, and it was just false assumptions that some had.
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Post by: nkelsch
Eh, "wait until you see the model in person" or "it is just a bad photos" didn't work for the previous failed sculpts, I don't have much faith that it will work for this one either.
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Post by: BobtheInquisitor
It worked for Wildcard. The model really does look better in real life because the photographers kept futzing up. The pose is a Marvel Comics pose, which looks better when seen from specific angles, like Iron Man's punch. In fact, her pose is very similar to this Spiderman punch (in that it looks great from certain angles only), as well as several classic Jim Lee "wind-ups".
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Post by: Taarnak
Disagree.
Wildcard's pose is still stupid. Even in hand. Sculpting is a bit better in person, but still not great.
Posing is one area where a lot of miniatures sculptors fall on their behinds. Some more than others.
The Judwan MVP and Buzzcut bot seems to suffer from bad posing and I highly doubt that seeing them in hand will help that.
~Eric
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Post by: nkelsch
Wildcard is a trash model. It is poor sculpt and pose. All the excuses are just that, excuses.
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Post by: Commander Cain
Oh not the Wildcard debate again? I for one quite like her now I own the model!
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Post by: Dr. Bizarre
I thought she was one of the better MVP models
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Post by: judgedoug
"My opinion is correct, and anyone else's is wrong, because they're fething stupid and I'm brilliant."
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Post by: BobtheInquisitor
My point is just that Mantic has terrible, terrible photographers.
the worst in the industry, maybe.
Seriously terrible.
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Post by: OrlandotheTechnicoloured
BobtheInquisitor wrote:My point is just that Mantic has terrible, terrible photographers.
the worst in the industry, maybe.
Seriously terrible.
While they could certainly use a bit of fine tuning they are NOT the worst.... Look under the SPOILER for the worst
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Post by: Krinsath
Damn, Orlando beat me to it....
But yes, while some improvement on their shots can't hurt, Mantic has a long way to go to "the worst" when discussing model photography. You can at least see Buzzcut and he's properly painted after all...
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Post by: Kroothawk
You asked for it (look at left shoulder):
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Post by: Earth Dragon
I would never buy that model just because of the picture, which is a shame because it looks kinda neat in general.
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Post by: Azazelx
It took me about 15 seconds to see that the arm isn't connected simply because of the loud, busy, awful paintjob.
Really though, I wouldn't blame the photographer for that one. I'd blame the person/people who assembled and painted it. (and missed the mold lines on the right forearm.)
Actually, given that the head/face are slightly out of focus, the photog deserves a tiny bit of criticism, but the focal issue is only evident due to the blown-up size of the image. Without a deep-focus camera (like GW uses) it might not even be possible to take a "perfect" shot.
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Post by: OrlandotheTechnicoloured
From the Mantic News Letter Anne Marie Helder (MVP) really good translation of the art Rico Van Dien not so sure about rico here and what seems to be from another company (Amera) a stadium to fit over the Dreadball board for £24.99
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Post by: Commander Cain
Helga looks just like the art, very impressed. The art for Rico wasn't great and I think it translated into the model, plus he is pointing and that is starting to bug me with all these models.
The arena looks like someone took some plastic packing from a box and sprayed it blue...
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Post by: OrlandotheTechnicoloured
Yes, Rico pointing at something else is a bad thing
(from his bio he'd probably be pointing at himself)
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Post by: Compel
Yeah, I'm not sure about Rico... I'd have thought he'd look a bit more like well, Johnny Rico, played by Casper Van Dien. That's just a random dude.
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Post by: BobtheInquisitor
I think Rico's paint job makes him look a little bit like the Lawnmower Man, in the digital world. Freaky.
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Post by: Cyporiean
Some highlights from the Dreadball conference at Adepticon.
24 'teams' tooled for plastic for Dreadball, each actual team being two separate ones with the secondary sculpts
A team would have been $40 in metal.
Striker SRP ~$400
5000 units of Dreadball core game were ordered prekickstarter, They Thought they'd sell maybe 3k.
Nearly 10k sold so far.
Dreadball Extreme - late 2014
Lots of folks want Dreadball/Mantic novels, including Ronnie.
Season 2 outward will have better castings, they are running the tools slower now. If you have issues bring them in and Mantic will replace them.
Heath was doing 2 designs a month for Mantic pre-Dreadball... Then the kickstarter went crazy and did 25 in 10 days.
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Post by: RiTides
Looking forward to my Season 3 team late this year from my piggybacking onto your pledge . Good to hear they've got the molding issue figured out...
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Post by: OrlandotheTechnicoloured
I do hope that does solve the moulding issues,
since they seem to be planning to use the material a lot in future they NEED to make sure it doesn't happen over the all their new ranges as it's a sure way to loose support (look at finecast)
Most of my Season 1 stuff was great, but 2 or 3 figures were poor indeed if slowing down the line stops it happening again, brilliant
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Post by: Dysartes
Commander Cain wrote:The art for Rico wasn't great and I think it translated into the model, plus he is pointing and that is starting to bug me with all these models.
I kinda get the feel he's spotted someone he knows in the crowd...
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Post by: Earth Dragon
Dysartes wrote: Commander Cain wrote:The art for Rico wasn't great and I think it translated into the model, plus he is pointing and that is starting to bug me with all these models.
I kinda get the feel he's spotted someone he knows in the crowd...
Still I agree. There are too many pointers in general. One of My Orx needs therapy as is with every goblin trying to bark out an order and get his help. He is suffering from depression since he always feels like he let someone down.
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Post by: scarletsquig
Awesome, first ever pics of the Teratons. Nice one!
Link added to OP.
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Post by: timetowaste85
The teratons are beautiful....wow.
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Post by: MasterSlowPoke
I'm really glad that they didn't try and base the Terratons on the little circle.
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Post by: Earth Dragon
I'm loving the Teratons. I just hope they don't clip everybody else and cause "facing" issues. Very impressed though. I'm guessing their team set-up is like the orcs but with "smash face" jacks versus squirrelly jacks.
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Post by: nkelsch
Cyporiean wrote:
Season 2 outward will have better castings, they are running the tools slower now. If you have issues bring them in and Mantic will replace them.
THANK GOODNESS they finally admitted it. Hopefully some well-cast season 2 models will redeem this game.
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Post by: Jeff Cope
Wow. The Teratons cannot come out soon enough! They look fantastic! They'll likely be my main team!
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Post by: lord marcus
Teratons are looking awesome.
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Post by: RiTides
nkelsch wrote: Cyporiean wrote:
Season 2 outward will have better castings, they are running the tools slower now. If you have issues bring them in and Mantic will replace them.
THANK GOODNESS they finally admitted it. Hopefully some well-cast season 2 models will redeem this game.
Nkelsch, I know you've been waging a bit of a lonely battle on this front so I just want to acknowledge and say Yes, I have seen you talking about the casting issues, and maybe that feedback even had a hand in their addressing it. So, it was not in vain (seemingly!)
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Post by: Dysartes
RiTides wrote:nkelsch wrote: Cyporiean wrote:
Season 2 outward will have better castings, they are running the tools slower now. If you have issues bring them in and Mantic will replace them.
THANK GOODNESS they finally admitted it. Hopefully some well-cast season 2 models will redeem this game.
Nkelsch, I know you've been waging a bit of a lonely battle on this front so I just want to acknowledge and say Yes, I have seen you talking about the casting issues, and maybe that feedback even had a hand in their addressing it. So, it was not in vain (seemingly!)
Though I'd certainly say that "redeem this game" is somewhat melodramatic...
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Post by: nkelsch
Dysartes wrote: RiTides wrote:nkelsch wrote: Cyporiean wrote:
Season 2 outward will have better castings, they are running the tools slower now. If you have issues bring them in and Mantic will replace them.
THANK GOODNESS they finally admitted it. Hopefully some well-cast season 2 models will redeem this game.
Nkelsch, I know you've been waging a bit of a lonely battle on this front so I just want to acknowledge and say Yes, I have seen you talking about the casting issues, and maybe that feedback even had a hand in their addressing it. So, it was not in vain (seemingly!)
Though I'd certainly say that "redeem this game" is somewhat melodramatic...
Getting a new toy only to it to have sloppy lines and damage which require hours of modeling repair and to be told 'this is what modeling is about, the product is fine' is demoralizing and demotivational. The amount of cleanup required, and the mold lines being across critical detail requiring resculpting of detail has been a very big letdown.
So yes... I have slowly been repairing the models I got from this KS, and the poor sculpts are just going back in the box, but there have been soo many 'misses' from the concept art to product and then on top of that they misplaced mold lines, then the sloppy casting, I have lost huge amounts of faith in the product and company itself. Maybe a better quality season 2 will 'redeem' this entire product and renew my excitement for the game.
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Post by: Earthbeard
I like Helga and the Teratons too, combined with the Judwan and Insect guys, mantic are seemingly upping the 'game' in terms of sculpting for sure.
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Post by: Gymnogyps
Hmm, I'm actually wondering if the mini got damaged between painting and photos. It actually does look like it popped off at the joint. I think I'm seeing a lifted skin of paint on the upper part of the arm...
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Post by: judgedoug
Gymnogyps wrote:
Hmm, I'm actually wondering if the mini got damaged between painting and photos. It actually does look like it popped off at the joint. I think I'm seeing a lifted skin of paint on the upper part of the arm...
Yeah, it obviously broke free but how did the pic make it to any official advertising capacity?
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Post by: Zweischneid
So people were able to buy the Season 2 stuff at Salute 2013, but Kickstarter-backers with Season 2 stuff were once again left to wait and twiddle their thumbs?
Mantic really likes to shove it into the face of Kickstarter-backers on how little they care about you once they have your money
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Post by: Azazelx
Compel wrote:Yeah, I'm not sure about Rico... I'd have thought he'd look a bit more like well, Johnny Rico, played by Casper Van Dien. That's just a random dude.
With a helmet on, that's what CVD looks like though!
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Post by: Riquende
Zweischneid wrote:So people were able to buy the Season 2 stuff at Salute 2013, but Kickstarter-backers with Season 2 stuff were once again left to wait and twiddle their thumbs?
Mantic really likes to shove it into the face of Kickstarter-backers on how little they care about you once they have your money
Mantic didn't have all the S2 stuff at Salute, only 2 of the teams have arrived from China so far. The KS stuff will be sent out when it's ALL ready to go.
But hey, whatever. "Haters gonna hate" I guess.
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Post by: Zweischneid
Riquende wrote:[
Mantic didn't have all the S2 stuff at Salute, only 2 of the teams have arrived from China so far. The KS stuff will be sent out when it's ALL ready to go.
But hey, whatever. "Haters gonna hate" I guess.
Well, they had pretty much the same excuse for putting Season 1 into the stores before KS-pledges were shipped.
It's getting old.
If there is not enough stuff back from China to honour the Kickstarter, don't sell it.
If there is enough to sell it, ship it to those that paid first (i.e. months ago) first.
What's so hard about that?
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Post by: Riquende
It doesn't make sense?
"Hey, we've got all this extra stock left over after allocating all the KS backers, let's make sure we don't sell it at Salute."
Or
"Hey, we should starting stuff out to backers piecemeal as and when it arrives in the country, screw the cost implications."
It's getting old.
What's getting old is people demanding they get their stuff first as a KS backer.
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Post by: Zweischneid
Riquende wrote:
What's getting old is people demanding they get their stuff first as a KS backer.
I am not demanding that people avoid peeing into other people's morning coffee.
Yet if I see people doing it, I can and do note that it seems to be rather bad form to do such a thing.
Only my opinion. And, coincidently, there are places such as online forums created specifically so people can express their opinion. Lucky me!!!!
And yes, if they cannot successfully ship to KS-backers before Salute.. don't sell it at Salute (Adepticon, etc..). If Mantic had even a modest interest in building customer trust and return-business, that would be the prudent thing to do.
Just hold the excess stock for another month (Mantic Open day.. say) and make sure your reputation as a company stays intact. Going for the quick profit at the expense of all else is not sustainable business.
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Post by: Kroothawk
Zweischneid wrote:Mantic really likes to shove it into the face of Kickstarter-backers on how little they care about you once they have your money
Think positive:
Mantic once made a preorder for a rulebook, collected the money, then ran a kickstarter for that rulebook where you could buy it with a discount. Kickstarter ended one day before release. So kickstarter backers are not the lowest in the food chain.
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Post by: Zweischneid
Kroothawk wrote: Zweischneid wrote:Mantic really likes to shove it into the face of Kickstarter-backers on how little they care about you once they have your money
Think positive:
Mantic once made a preorder for a rulebook, collected the money, then ran a kickstarter for that rulebook where you could buy it with a discount. Kickstarter ended one day before release. So kickstarter backers are not the lowest in the food chain.
Lol, what? What rulebook was that? Kings of War?
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Post by: Azazelx
Riquende wrote: Zweischneid wrote:So people were able to buy the Season 2 stuff at Salute 2013, but Kickstarter-backers with Season 2 stuff were once again left to wait and twiddle their thumbs?
Mantic really likes to shove it into the face of Kickstarter-backers on how little they care about you once they have your money
Mantic didn't have all the S2 stuff at Salute, only 2 of the teams have arrived from China so far. The KS stuff will be sent out when it's ALL ready to go.
But hey, whatever. "Haters gonna hate" I guess.
Not that I'm too fussed personally, but CMON copped a lot of heat for a similar incident involving Zombicide and GenCon as I recall...
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Post by: RoninXiC
KS IS NOT A PREORDER SITE.
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Post by: Black Nexus
Think positive:
Mantic once made a preorder for a rulebook, collected the money, then ran a kickstarter for that rulebook where you could buy it with a discount. Kickstarter ended one day before release. So kickstarter backers are not the lowest in the food chain.
anyone who took a pre-order was refunded and pledged through the KS. Everyone of them the pre-order allowed those who didn't know what kickstarter was OR didn't want to use it to buy the book.
And yes, if they cannot successfully ship to KS-backers before Salute.. don't sell it at Salute (Adepticon, etc..). If Mantic had even a modest interest in building customer trust and return-business, that would be the prudent thing to do.
people at salute could pick up their kickstarter packages. in fact I even spoke to people who turned them down of that offer because they were happy to wait. aprils releases were at salute, KS ships ends of april beginning of may. may releases ship end of may. We get most of S2 first, a little bit of it at the same time as the shops and a tiny bit a week behind salute. big fecking deal... mountain out of a molehill mate, seriously.
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Post by: Sining
It's amusing that without reading who's the poster and just by reading the text of the complaint, I can guess who it is. I can understand why Zwei would be annoyed since he pledged for the KS I think but Kroothawk?
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Post by: Zweischneid
Black Nexus wrote:
people at salute could pick up their kickstarter packages. in fact I even spoke to people who turned them down of that offer because they were happy to wait. aprils releases were at salute, KS ships ends of april beginning of may. may releases ship end of may. We get most of S2 first, a little bit of it at the same time as the shops and a tiny bit a week behind salute. big fecking deal... mountain out of a molehill mate, seriously.
Says another account who, in 4 years on Dakka, never ever ever wrote a single post not related on a Mantic Games topic.
Good to see all the unbiased, self-reflected people chiming in again to extinguish the slightest wiff of non-ultra-positive-mantic-news at a minutes notice.
And no, it's not a big fecking deal. I never said that. It's an annoying small thing... but it is that.
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Post by: Bolognesus
Wellthat's your nice and dishonest self again zwei, purpusefully neglecting to distinguish between "posted in thread" and "thread created by"
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Post by: Azazelx
You guys may possibly want to chill out a little there. Just a thought.
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Post by: Zweischneid
Bolognesus wrote:Wellthat's your nice and dishonest self again zwei, purpusefully neglecting to distinguish between "posted in thread" and "thread created by"
Well. I could post "posted-in" too, but it'd be a looooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooong picture for 200+ posts.
Just go look yourself
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Post by: scarletsquig
Gotta love the approach of attacking someone's character instead of posting intelligent debate succinctly.
Time-honoured internet tradition right there.
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Post by: judgedoug
Azazelx wrote:You guys may possibly want to chill out a little there. Just a thought.
Yeah, seriously about to start utilizing (for the first time ever) the ol' Ignore button.
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Post by: Bolognesus
Zweischneid wrote: Bolognesus wrote:Wellthat's your nice and dishonest self again zwei, purpusefully neglecting to distinguish between "posted in thread" and "thread created by"
Well. I could post "posted-in" too, but it'd be a looooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooong picture for 200+ posts.
Just go look yourself
Ah, "Fake but accurate"? Nice going there
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Post by: Alpharius
OK, definitely time to settle down in here - yes?
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Post by: Earth Dragon
Getting back to the "what KS should give to the backers and when" comments
I feel it all comes down to shipping. A company would go broke if they shipped you every single item as it became available instead of putting it together in a number of bundles. If they have part of the order ready, but are waiting on the rest, you really have no intention of "supporting the company" if you have issues with them selling "what's ready now" while they wait for the rest of your order.
It's fine to be frustrated, but it is selfish to expect a business to hold off on selling the items available to them while waiting to fill the other portion of your order.
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Post by: Zweischneid
Earth Dragon wrote:
It's fine to be frustrated, but it is selfish to expect a business to hold off on selling the items available to them while waiting to fill the other portion of your order.
There's nothing in my 2nd Season order that wasn't also available to buy on Salute.
And as I've said multiple times, it's not a BIG issue. But Mantic's Ninja-Gestapo is getting a bit too zealous ahead of the Warpath Kickstarter it seems.
Imagine a clampdown like this everytime someone dares write a 1-line complaint about GW prices, or Finecast or the quality of White Dwarf content, etc.. ?
The reaction in this thread is far more ... interesting ... than the initial shipping-issue.
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Post by: Salacious Greed
Zweischneid wrote:Earth Dragon wrote:
It's fine to be frustrated, but it is selfish to expect a business to hold off on selling the items available to them while waiting to fill the other portion of your order.
There's nothing in my 2nd Season order that wasn't also available to buy on Salute.
And as I've said multiple times, it's not a BIG issue. But Mantic's Ninja-Gestapo is getting a bit too zealous ahead of the Warpath Kickstarter it seems.
Imagine a clampdown like this everytime someone dares write a 1-line complaint about GW prices, or Finecast or the quality of White Dwarf content, etc.. ?
The reaction in this thread is far more ... interesting ... than the initial shipping-issue.
So let me ask this question in a comparison:
Let's say that, um, Ferrari had a Kickstarter, to make a brand new car. Let's say that the backers helped this to come to fruition, much like I've heard slung about on this forum, that the backers helped Season 2 and 3 to come about, as -those- weren't pre-orders. So, if Ferrari is making those cars, and some have been assembled and delivered, but now I'm waiting on, oh, let's say the stereo, because I ordered the deluxe, not the Alpine, it's seriously ok for them to go to market and sell that model Ferrari to someone else before they deliver it to the "people who made it happen"?
I don't believe for an instant that Mantic would go under if they held off on selling those two Season 2 teams at Salute. They could have demo'd it and had the prettily painted models on display and told enthusiastic Salute goers that "Yes, you'll be able to order these right after we deliver to all those Mantic supporters who allowed us to deliver this great addition to our game!" Instead I see a business that isn't interested in who helped them get to that point, merely how to make the next dollar...
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Post by: scarletsquig
Zweischneid wrote:But Mantic's Ninja-Gestapo is getting a bit too zealous ahead of the Warpath Kickstarter it seems.
Imagine a clampdown like this everytime someone dares write a 1-line complaint about GW prices, or Finecast or the quality of White Dwarf content, etc.. ?
The reaction in this thread is far more ... interesting ... than the initial shipping-issue.
^ The Mantic Ninja Gestapo. I like that title.
What do we think guys, maybe have it as our club name and spraypaint it on the treehouse? Sounds cooler than water carriers or white knights at any rate.
Maybe Mantic will start taking us seriously and start paying us money to make positive forum posts instead of shovelfuls of drakon rider overstock. :p
Anyway, the Amera stadium is supposed to be pretty good, better than their usual plastic and made out of thicker stuff. It does look a bit plain, but loads of potential for LEDs and sponsorship posters and things:
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Post by: Earth Dragon
Salacious Greed wrote: Zweischneid wrote:Earth Dragon wrote:
It's fine to be frustrated, but it is selfish to expect a business to hold off on selling the items available to them while waiting to fill the other portion of your order.
There's nothing in my 2nd Season order that wasn't also available to buy on Salute.
And as I've said multiple times, it's not a BIG issue. But Mantic's Ninja-Gestapo is getting a bit too zealous ahead of the Warpath Kickstarter it seems.
Imagine a clampdown like this everytime someone dares write a 1-line complaint about GW prices, or Finecast or the quality of White Dwarf content, etc.. ?
The reaction in this thread is far more ... interesting ... than the initial shipping-issue.
So let me ask this question in a comparison:
Let's say that, um, Ferrari had a Kickstarter, to make a brand new car. Let's say that the backers helped this to come to fruition, much like I've heard slung about on this forum, that the backers helped Season 2 and 3 to come about, as -those- weren't pre-orders. So, if Ferrari is making those cars, and some have been assembled and delivered, but now I'm waiting on, oh, let's say the stereo, because I ordered the deluxe, not the Alpine, it's seriously ok for them to go to market and sell that model Ferrari to someone else before they deliver it to the "people who made it happen"?
I don't believe for an instant that Mantic would go under if they held off on selling those two Season 2 teams at Salute. They could have demo'd it and had the prettily painted models on display and told enthusiastic Salute goers that "Yes, you'll be able to order these right after we deliver to all those Mantic supporters who allowed us to deliver this great addition to our game!" Instead I see a business that isn't interested in who helped them get to that point, merely how to make the next dollar...
Little too much of a stretch. You'd have to buy several cars to line up with what the subject matter is. Huge difference between waiting on a small adjustment of a product and waiting for all the MVPs to be finished and with sufficient stock before your KS box goes out.
And they weren't selling them on their website. They were selling them at a special preview venue, as you stated. This isn't them trying to "make a dollar however they can" and more another way to generate interest in the product by offering things not out on the market yet. Now if folks hear about Mantic at a convention, they'll make sure they get their butts over there to see what they might have.
And the vast majority of backers aren't gonna care they did that. You can't call Mantic ungrateful for not giving KS backers EVERYTHING first, and act like those miffed aren't ungrateful when their reward was dirt cheap prices, free shipping for many of the backers, and practically every single MVP for free.
Again, frustration understandable, and the personal attacks were over the top (on both sides), but I feel it is more selfish on of the individual to not let a company try to expand a game how they can. From everything I gather, it is getting a sufficient number of all the MVPs for the KS packages that is one of the major hold ups, and shipping them one-by-one would just be foolish, and would damage their business.
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Post by: cincydooley
I was a bit disappointed in Mantic at Adepticon. I was ready to demo and buy a copy of Dreadball at the convention, but the dude I asked at their dealer table wouldn't give me a "real" demo. He showed me what amounted to the most half assed half a turn with no actual rule or mechanic teaching I'd ever had. Though, I guess to be fair I was only in there during the VIG time, when the hall was fairly empty and he did manage to tell me that the scoring zones were worth different amounts....so there's that, right?
I was ready to buy the starter, the chicks, and the new aliens too. Sigh. Oh well.
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Post by: Alfndrate
cincydooley wrote:I was a bit disappointed in Mantic at Adepticon. I was ready to demo and buy a copy of Dreadball at the convention, but the dude I asked at their dealer table wouldn't give me a "real" demo. He showed me what amounted to the most half assed half a turn with no actual rule or mechanic teaching I'd ever had. Though, I guess to be fair I was only in there during the VIG time, when the hall was fairly empty and he did manage to tell me that the scoring zones were worth different amounts....so there's that, right?
I was ready to buy the starter, the chicks, and the new aliens too. Sigh. Oh well.
Should have waited for Ronnie to show up, I got a demo, and an explanation of what each team had in their roster (twice!). You missed out, it's a fun little game... And I was able to market it to my family as a board game, so I might be able to play it
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Post by: RatBot
cincydooley wrote:I was a bit disappointed in Mantic at Adepticon. I was ready to demo and buy a copy of Dreadball at the convention, but the dude I asked at their dealer table wouldn't give me a "real" demo. He showed me what amounted to the most half assed half a turn with no actual rule or mechanic teaching I'd ever had. Though, I guess to be fair I was only in there during the VIG time, when the hall was fairly empty and he did manage to tell me that the scoring zones were worth different amounts....so there's that, right?
I was ready to buy the starter, the chicks, and the new aliens too. Sigh. Oh well.
Heh, sounds like they're taking lessons from Redshirts.... the last two or three demos I saw from official GW staff (and the one I got when I asked for a LoTR demo) was pretty much "Everything moves six inches and everything happens on a 4+" without any explanation of mechanics; a far cry from the really awesome Blood Bowl demo I got circa 2000.
Either way, it's a pretty piss-poor method; I'd think it'd be better to actually demonstrate the game. Obviously a demo game can't be a full-length game, but I don't think one full turn with very small forces is entirely unreasonable.
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Post by: cincydooley
I figured as much. I was pretty turned off by the "demo". I don't think Ronnie was at the table the few times I was able to make it in the dealer hall. Automatically Appended Next Post: RatBot wrote:.
Either way, it's a pretty piss-poor method; I'd think it'd be better to actually demonstrate the game. Obviously a demo game can't be a full-length game, but I don't think one full turn with very small forces is entirely unreasonable.
That's basically what I asked for. He told me he didn't have time to do that and they had full demos available as ticketed events somewhere else. Like I said, not a perfect experience.
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Post by: Earth Dragon
Alfndrate wrote: cincydooley wrote:I was a bit disappointed in Mantic at Adepticon. I was ready to demo and buy a copy of Dreadball at the convention, but the dude I asked at their dealer table wouldn't give me a "real" demo. He showed me what amounted to the most half assed half a turn with no actual rule or mechanic teaching I'd ever had. Though, I guess to be fair I was only in there during the VIG time, when the hall was fairly empty and he did manage to tell me that the scoring zones were worth different amounts....so there's that, right?
I was ready to buy the starter, the chicks, and the new aliens too. Sigh. Oh well.
Should have waited for Ronnie to show up, I got a demo, and an explanation of what each team had in their roster (twice!). You missed out, it's a fun little game... And I was able to market it to my family as a board game, so I might be able to play it
This can EASILY pass as a board game. After a few games, people will be dying to number their team members and start playing for XP and kill their opponents permanently.
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Post by: Alfndrate
RatBot wrote:Heh, sounds like they're taking lessons from Redshirts.... the last two or three demos I saw from official GW staff (and the one I got when I asked for a LoTR demo) was pretty much "Everything moves six inches and everything happens on a 4+" without any explanation of mechanics; a far cry from the really awesome Blood Bowl demo I got circa 2000.
Either way, it's a pretty piss-poor method; I'd think it'd be better to actually demonstrate the game. Obviously a demo game can't be a full-length game, but I don't think one full turn with very small forces is entirely unreasonable.
Except that when you have crowds of people trying to get demos, buy product, divert your attention in some way, shape, or manner, your demos have to be just enough to give someone a taste. While the "everything moves 6 inches and saves on a 4+" is a dumb way to do it, I spent the majority of my time giving people a full turn or so with small forces for Brushfire, so they could learn the game, get a feel for it, and get on with their day. If they stayed in the booth or wanted a longer demo, I obliged. More often than not, they thanked me for my time, and perused our product.
Companies at GenCon write out scripts for their demos, and time it out so that you can give someone a feel for the game in 7 and a half minutes tops.
cincydooley wrote:I figured as much. I was pretty turned off by the "demo". I don't think Ronnie was at the table the few times I was able to make it in the dealer hall.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
RatBot wrote:.
Either way, it's a pretty piss-poor method; I'd think it'd be better to actually demonstrate the game. Obviously a demo game can't be a full-length game, but I don't think one full turn with very small forces is entirely unreasonable.
That's basically what I asked for. He told me he didn't have time to do that and they had full demos available as ticketed events somewhere else. Like I said, not a perfect experience.
Wyrd did something similar at GenCon last year. They had quick 5 to 10 minutes (at most) demos in the booth and hour long demos in the Event Hall, that you had to have a ticket for (though if we had no shows, we'd take people without tickets).
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Post by: cincydooley
Wyrd, from my experience, has the worst demoers of any company at a convention.
Additionally, I dont understand that method. If they had given me a short, one turn demo and I liked it, I'd have purchased it right then. The idea that you'll send me away from your table and the place I can buy your product is foolish IMO.
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Post by: Alfndrate
cincydooley wrote:Wyrd, from my experience, has the worst demoers of any company at a convention.
I'm offended Albeit when I demo'd for Wyrd I was in the Event Hall, but they're not far from the norm... Every demo I got at GenCon was similar, get me a few minutes with the game, and try to hook me.
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Post by: Kroothawk
cincydooley wrote:Wyrd, from my experience, has the worst demoers of any company at a convention.
Then have a look at this thread about GW's demo table for professional traders
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/518768.page
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Post by: cincydooley
Alfndrate wrote: cincydooley wrote:Wyrd, from my experience, has the worst demoers of any company at a convention.
I'm offended Albeit when I demo'd for Wyrd I was in the Event Hall, but they're not far from the norm... Every demo I got at GenCon was similar, get me a few minutes with the game, and try to hook me.
I guess I'm jaded because they were very beardy and rude to my wife when she wanted a demo. That'll turn you off quick
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Post by: Alfndrate
cincydooley wrote: Alfndrate wrote: cincydooley wrote:Wyrd, from my experience, has the worst demoers of any company at a convention.
I'm offended Albeit when I demo'd for Wyrd I was in the Event Hall, but they're not far from the norm... Every demo I got at GenCon was similar, get me a few minutes with the game, and try to hook me.
I guess I'm jaded because they were very beardy and rude to my wife when she wanted a demo. That'll turn you off quick
That's completely understandable. I think I had to turn away some people in the Event Hall simply because we were booked. I try to be friend and excited when I give a demo...
If you're going to Origins, I can bring Dreadball with me, and we can play through a Rush or two if you're interested
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Post by: Earth Dragon
I swear I need to move to Ohio. I constantly see you guys talking about conventions in your region. It's crazy Automatically Appended Next Post: Oh, but I will NOT be rooting for the buckeyes. Screw that noise
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Post by: Alfndrate
Earth Dragon wrote:I swear I need to move to Ohio. I constantly see you guys talking about conventions in your region. It's crazy
We're just close enough to AdeptiCon and GenCon that we don't have to worry, but there is also Origins in Columbus.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh, but I will NOT be rooting for the buckeyes. Screw that noise
I wouldn't blame you...
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Post by: cincydooley
Ohio, despite our manic weather and crappy economy, isn't so bad :-).
Alf, I think I may be at origins. Ill let ya know.
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Post by: Earth Dragon
Any insight on the Teraton team make-up yet? Were those 2 jacks and a guard, or do we think they'll actually have strikers?
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Post by: Azazelx
scarletsquig wrote:
Anyway, the Amera stadium is supposed to be pretty good, better than their usual plastic and made out of thicker stuff. It does look a bit plain, but loads of potential for LEDs and sponsorship posters and things:
Looks like a relatively simple vacu-formed plastic job to me. It obviously has potential, but also looks like it would make playing the actual game a bit more difficult in terms of picking up and moving the figures.
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Post by: Earth Dragon
Azazelx wrote: scarletsquig wrote:
Anyway, the Amera stadium is supposed to be pretty good, better than their usual plastic and made out of thicker stuff. It does look a bit plain, but loads of potential for LEDs and sponsorship posters and things:
Looks like a relatively simple vacu-formed plastic job to me. It obviously has potential, but also looks like it would make playing the actual game a bit more difficult in terms of picking up and moving the figures.
that's what I was thinking. Having to reach over that thing might be a royal pain unless you were standing and playing or had a low table. Interesting for display at least. Could set other players in the crowd watching the game (which is where I think those teratons are hangning out)
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Post by: Vargas79
Earth Dragon wrote:Any insight on the Teraton team make-up yet? Were those 2 jacks and a guard, or do we think they'll actually have strikers?
I asked that question, and all the guy at Salute could tell me was that they would be Guards and Jacks only and could teleport. No info on how the teleport mechanic would work though.
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Post by: Earth Dragon
Vargas79 wrote:Earth Dragon wrote:Any insight on the Teraton team make-up yet? Were those 2 jacks and a guard, or do we think they'll actually have strikers?
I asked that question, and all the guy at Salute could tell me was that they would be Guards and Jacks only and could teleport. No info on how the teleport mechanic would work though.
Nice!! Orx......prepare to loose your spot as the Bash masters!!!
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Post by: Kroothawk
The Amera Dreadball Stadium is now officially on preorder for £24.99 (white plastic single piece moulding ), with delivery expected in mid May:
http://www.amera.co.uk/product.php?range=d
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Post by: OrlandotheTechnicoloured
Update #109 · Apr 25, 2013 · 5 comments Great news guys – Season 2 is now shipping!! The following models will shortly be winging there way over to you! - Void Sirens Female Corporation Team - Pelgar Mystics Judwan Team - Helder, MVP - Mee’kel Judwan, MVP - Rico, MVP - Buzzcut, MVP - Cheerleaders - Coaches - Locust City Chiefs Z’zor Team - Chromium Chargers Robot Team - Ludwig, MVP - Firewall, MVP In addition, also shipping are: - Season 2 Rulebook - Gabe - White Cases - Team Dice - extra stuff from the second survey - such as pitches, t-shirts, refbots, decals etc. - Plus whatever other items we have that we can squeeze in! Barring any unexpected issues, we expect to have all of the Kickstarters shipped by the end of next week – with a release date of Q2 2013 (April to the end of June effectively) we’re really proud of our design team and warehouse guys who have worked non-stop to ensure that your items start shipping day 25 of a 90 period – a phenomenal achievement given the trials and challenges of getting this number of models complete! Furthermore, all the Season 3 models are with the manufacturer and are being tooled - so we're on track to deliver our third shipment! So there you have it guys, part 2/3 is nearly in the post and part 3/3 isn’t far away at all. We look forwards to showing you the remainder of the models - everything from the Asterians to the prone markers - over the next couple of months!!
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Post by: nkelsch
I am glad I skipped the coaches and cheerleaders. The teams all look really good. Zzor are probably the best things Mantic have produced.
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Post by: Earth Dragon
What do you mean. Master Splinter looks awesome :p
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Post by: BobtheInquisitor
He might become my Teratons' coach. Does anyone know a company that makes...er, wereturtles... for my MVPs?
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Post by: decker_cky
BobtheInquisitor wrote:He might become my Teratons' coach. Does anyone know a company that makes...er, wereturtles... for my MVPs?
Heresy has one: http://heresyminiatures.com/shop/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=119
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Post by: Commander Cain
Mantic continues to impress with their on-schedule releases, everything I pledged for looks fantastic as well, very happy with this!
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Post by: Earthbeard
The Heresy one is great but here's more dwarf sized. I think Reaper have a couple.
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Post by: RiTides
The season 2 teams look good, I just wish they wouldn't use repeat poses / would make their models so that same sculpt could have at least an arm turned differently. But overall, well done, bodes well for my season 3 Nameless
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Post by: Earth Dragon
RiTides wrote:The season 2 teams look good, I just wish they wouldn't use repeat poses / would make their models so that same sculpt could have at least an arm turned differently. But overall, well done, bodes well for my season 3 Nameless
Season 3 is where it's at. Teratons and Nameless all the way!!
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Post by: Earth Dragon
All right. So who else wants to see Yndij come to fruition in Dreadball?
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Post by: Joyboozer
Yes please! Though I'd also like to see the last few MVPs from the kickstarter in Deadzone.
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Post by: Earth Dragon
I've been tempted to pledge "Mercenary" in deadzone just to ensure a bad arse Teraton that can be used with most teams. Enforcers AND a Teraton.....yes please.
I'm kinda hopin someone else does though, since I can't justify it at the moment.
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Post by: Zweischneid
Earth Dragon wrote:I've been tempted to pledge "Mercenary" in deadzone just to ensure a bad arse Teraton that can be used with most teams. Enforcers AND a Teraton.....yes please.
I'm kinda hopin someone else does though, since I can't justify it at the moment.
Like what? DreadBall Season 4: Deadzone-Ball ?
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Post by: Pacific
A friend of mine used to make a chaos dwarf team out of WFB dwarf bits, it will be pretty cool if the miniatures are there to be able to use some minis for cross-over between Warpath/Dreadball/Deadzone.
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Post by: Earth Dragon
Dreadball seems like it might be best to keep them seperate. The main issue I have with outside models in Dreadball is positional poses. I know some want them fully posable, but I like being able to know what they are in a quick glance.
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Post by: Dysartes
Zweischneid wrote:Earth Dragon wrote:I've been tempted to pledge "Mercenary" in deadzone just to ensure a bad arse Teraton that can be used with most teams. Enforcers AND a Teraton.....yes please.
I'm kinda hopin someone else does though, since I can't justify it at the moment.
Like what? DreadBall Season 4: Deadzone-Ball ?
I'm pretty sure season 4 is meant to be Dreadball: Extreme.
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Post by: HisDivineShadow
Having trouble finding good comparison photos on the size of these guys. Any one have a good scale comparison shot? Especially of season 2.
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Post by: Azazelx
Got my Season 2 package today. I thought I'd gotten the coaches, but apparently not. The figures all look okay, though they're hard to see if any have issues inside the baggies (and there are so many baggies, I won't be opening them till I'm assembling and painting them). I've opened and started to assemble one of my Buzzcut models - very well sculpted - and he could stylistically be either an Ork or an Ogre. I'll probably do this one more Ogrish, and the second one I'll swap a 40k or Kromlech/Maxmini/etc Orc head in with a spiky shoulderpad or something. The pose isn't the best (he does look a little like he's doing the Skinhead Moonstomp!), and as I've just assembled him, I've found that he's also totally incapable of standing up on the silly little mantic disc-base. I'll have to mount him on a slotta with blu-tac for painting.
Anyway, he's outside now, with his primer drying.
They sent me 3 of Michael Judwan and only 1 of Helga (supposed to be 2/2) so I emailed Stewart to get it sorted out.
The rulebook is good quality. The cover could stand to be a touch thicker, and the artwork a touch smaller, but it's a very good, very professional looking set of rules.
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Post by: Dysartes
HisDivineShadow wrote:Having trouble finding good comparison photos on the size of these guys. Any one have a good scale comparison shot? Especially of season 2.
What in particular are you wanting scale shots of HDS? If you can be a touch more specific, I'll see what I can sort out over the weekend for you.
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Post by: rosafari
Azazelx what's this email address for Stewart? My Mee'kel figure arrived broken, I sent a message through the mantic website a week ago and heard nothing :( . thanks!
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Post by: Pacific
Thanks for the feedback on Season 2 guys!
Putting in an order today for a load of the new stuff. I'm sure I lost out by not following the KS, but I'm getting 3 teams (Void Sirens, Judwan, ForgeFathers), 3 MVPs and the season 2 rulebook for less than £50 from Total Wargamer (they have some of the MVPs for £2.99, and just over a tenner for a team)
Also - not sure if this guy is season 2, but am I alone in thinking this is one of the best designed and characterful miniatures Mantic has ever made? I can imagine this guy being tremendously annoying to play against.
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Post by: Riquende
That's Season 2 MVP Rico Van Dien - he has a rule where he actually makes it more difficult for himself to score, but if you make the strike attempt, you get more fan checks.
So probably just annoying to play with, as against.
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Post by: Azazelx
rosafari wrote:Azazelx what's this email address for Stewart? My Mee'kel figure arrived broken, I sent a message through the mantic website a week ago and heard nothing :( . thanks!
\\
PMed!
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Post by: Krinsath
Yay my shipment arrived yesterday! Quick question just to confirm that I'm remembering things right; the upgrade packs are 10 models now, 6 more in the S3 shipment?
I vaguely recall this being the case but just want to be sure I didn't hallucinate that.
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Post by: adamsouza
I just got my shipment this week, and discovered this thread today
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Post by: HisDivineShadow
Dysartes wrote: HisDivineShadow wrote:Having trouble finding good comparison photos on the size of these guys. Any one have a good scale comparison shot? Especially of season 2.
What in particular are you wanting scale shots of HDS? If you can be a touch more specific, I'll see what I can sort out over the weekend for you.
I'm interested in the robots, but I'd like to know what I'm going to be getting. I don't wanna open the box and find them pathetically small, especially since it very possible I'll never play a game, and they'll just sit on a shelf all painted up.
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Post by: adamsouza
HisDivineShadow wrote:
I'm interested in the robots, but I'd like to know what I'm going to be getting. I don't wanna open the box and find them pathetically small, especially since it very possible I'll never play a game, and they'll just sit on a shelf all painted up.
Think Star Wars Super Battle Droids in terms of size.
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Post by: Commander Cain
The robots are big. Just checked and they average at around the exact same height as a Space Marine. I have yet to start chopping them up and reposing them (for variety) but they come in three different poses in case you were wondering.
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Post by: CptJake
My package just arrived in SE Georgia.
Hooray!
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Post by: Pacific
HisDivineShadow wrote: Dysartes wrote: HisDivineShadow wrote:Having trouble finding good comparison photos on the size of these guys. Any one have a good scale comparison shot? Especially of season 2.
What in particular are you wanting scale shots of HDS? If you can be a touch more specific, I'll see what I can sort out over the weekend for you.
I'm interested in the robots, but I'd like to know what I'm going to be getting. I don't wanna open the box and find them pathetically small, especially since it very possible I'll never play a game, and they'll just sit on a shelf all painted up.
Yes I think they are fairly big.. these are the only size comparison shots I could find
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Post by: Krinsath
Pacific wrote: HisDivineShadow wrote: Dysartes wrote: HisDivineShadow wrote:Having trouble finding good comparison photos on the size of these guys. Any one have a good scale comparison shot? Especially of season 2.
What in particular are you wanting scale shots of HDS? If you can be a touch more specific, I'll see what I can sort out over the weekend for you.
I'm interested in the robots, but I'd like to know what I'm going to be getting. I don't wanna open the box and find them pathetically small, especially since it very possible I'll never play a game, and they'll just sit on a shelf all painted up.
Yes I think they are fairly big.. these are the only size comparison shots I could find
And in terms of measurements, the female player at the front of that image pointing is 1 and 1/8" tall from the base. I would guess the robots clock in at one and a quarter, or roughly 32mm if you want to use non-Imperial units like the pesky "rest of the world" insists on doing.
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Post by: HisDivineShadow
Those are the only pics of robots and other figures I could find as well, but had nothing to judge scale from.
Thanks for the info, all. I'll have to order some when they release.
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Post by: Bolognesus
What would you want comparison pics with? I could take a few pics.
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Post by: Azazelx
They're tall, but very thin/fine.
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Post by: adhuin
Finally sorted my 2nd season minis for my gaming group.
2x striker +3 teams ment lot of small plastic bags.
They're looking nice, but I'm regretting not ordering more hexagon bases.
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Post by: HisDivineShadow
Which a got? Lol I mainly play 40k so I know their size.
I've just been unable to find shots of them that aren't on blank space or the semi ambiguous gaming grid. Any pics appreciated.
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Post by: Azazelx
adhuin wrote:Finally sorted my 2nd season minis for my gaming group.
2x striker +3 teams ment lot of small plastic bags.
They're looking nice, but I'm regretting not ordering more hexagon bases.
If the Season 2 handling is any indication, we might be able to add more just before S3 ships...
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Post by: Azazelx
Do Mantic stockists carry those as well? I could see grabbing some more myself if I can get them post free with other models I want.
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Post by: Black Nexus
stockists can order in anything you want from the mail order website so they can get you the bases.
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Post by: timetowaste85
Just wanted to report that my package came in today and I'm happy as a virgin on prom night!!! (A virgin who took the school's sluttiest girl to prom and hasn't gotten to the after party yet).
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Post by: Bolognesus
HisDivineShadow wrote:
Which a got? Lol I mainly play 40k so I know their size.
I've just been unable to find shots of them that aren't on blank space or the semi ambiguous gaming grid. Any pics appreciated.
first space marine I could get my mitts on without too much digging. Girls are being spraypainted atm (so not in the pic) but are pretty much the size of the judwan.
basically the models are as tall as a space marine, just a lot slimmer.
haven't gotten around to the MVPs yet but if you want any of those in a pic, just say so.
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Post by: nkelsch
Ugh, super disappointed with season 2 models.
Helga has mold injection on the shoulderpad arm parts, of course violently twisted off the sprue instead of clipped and has damaged detail. Same on her foot.
Some of the Zzor have injection points on the necks and sides of the head and again... violently twisted and torn from the sprue damaging the detail.
A lot of the other parts have the tear on the 'peg' where the model joins so it doesn't harm detail, but some of the mold lines and flash are super thick, through the middle of detail and there is no way to clean the flash without damaging the detail.
These are even sloppier than Season 1. Why couldn't they have just left the models on the sprues and let us clean our own models? I really dislike this 'torn' from the sprue behavior. All of these issues are from rushing through the mold and not using simple tools to snip from the sprue.
The Robots and Zzor are complete disasters in regards to damage from tearing models off the sprue, and the females have such heavy mold lines and flashing, it is going to take extreme effort to salvage the models without damaging the heads.
The only team which is clean in my set are the Judwan, but then this is the model where mantic lied to us again about 'this mold is not done' and it had a horrible pose and they were 'fixing' it and they never did. The Judwan are mostly clean, but bent all to hell so they will take repair even past the silly 'I'm falling backwards' pose.
At least the rulebook seems like nice quality. Too bad they can't make a decent cast or remove them from sprues using basic tools like a knife or even a pair of snips. If the models were not damaged by being torn off the sprue, the mold lines and flash may not be such a huge deal.
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Post by: Dysartes
Any chance of some pictures of this damage, nkelsch?
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Post by: HisDivineShadow
Bolognesus wrote: HisDivineShadow wrote:
Which a got? Lol I mainly play 40k so I know their size.
I've just been unable to find shots of them that aren't on blank space or the semi ambiguous gaming grid. Any pics appreciated.
first space marine I could get my mitts on without too much digging. Girls are being spraypainted atm (so not in the pic) but are pretty much the size of the judwan.
basically the models are as tall as a space marine, just a lot slimmer.
haven't gotten around to the MVPs yet but if you want any of those in a pic, just say so.
As far as I was wanting, this is perfect. Thank you.
My first born is yours.
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Post by: Kroothawk
nkelsch wrote:Ugh, super disappointed with season 2 models.
Helga has mold injection on the shoulderpad arm parts, of course violently twisted off the sprue instead of clipped and has damaged detail. Same on her foot.
Some of the Zzor have injection points on the necks and sides of the head and again... violently twisted and torn from the sprue damaging the detail.
A lot of the other parts have the tear on the 'peg' where the model joins so it doesn't harm detail, but some of the mold lines and flash are super thick, through the middle of detail and there is no way to clean the flash without damaging the detail.
These are even sloppier than Season 1. Why couldn't they have just left the models on the sprues and let us clean our own models? I really dislike this 'torn' from the sprue behavior. All of these issues are from rushing through the mold and not using simple tools to snip from the sprue.
The Robots and Zzor are complete disasters in regards to damage from tearing models off the sprue, and the females have such heavy mold lines and flashing, it is going to take extreme effort to salvage the models without damaging the heads.
The only team which is clean in my set are the Judwan, but then this is the model where mantic lied to us again about 'this mold is not done' and it had a horrible pose and they were 'fixing' it and they never did. The Judwan are mostly clean, but bent all to hell so they will take repair even past the silly 'I'm falling backwards' pose.
Seems with every release, Mantic finds new ways to bodge it.
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Post by: nkelsch
Kroothawk wrote:nkelsch wrote:Ugh, super disappointed with season 2 models.
Helga has mold injection on the shoulderpad arm parts, of course violently twisted off the sprue instead of clipped and has damaged detail. Same on her foot.
Some of the Zzor have injection points on the necks and sides of the head and again... violently twisted and torn from the sprue damaging the detail.
A lot of the other parts have the tear on the 'peg' where the model joins so it doesn't harm detail, but some of the mold lines and flash are super thick, through the middle of detail and there is no way to clean the flash without damaging the detail.
These are even sloppier than Season 1. Why couldn't they have just left the models on the sprues and let us clean our own models? I really dislike this 'torn' from the sprue behavior. All of these issues are from rushing through the mold and not using simple tools to snip from the sprue.
The Robots and Zzor are complete disasters in regards to damage from tearing models off the sprue, and the females have such heavy mold lines and flashing, it is going to take extreme effort to salvage the models without damaging the heads.
The only team which is clean in my set are the Judwan, but then this is the model where mantic lied to us again about 'this mold is not done' and it had a horrible pose and they were 'fixing' it and they never did. The Judwan are mostly clean, but bent all to hell so they will take repair even past the silly 'I'm falling backwards' pose.
Seems with every release, Mantic finds new ways to bodge it.
Photos... The more I look, the more problems I find. Almost my entire season 2 shipment is like this. Part of the problem is not just the sprue damage and mold lines, but where they are on the model which makes cleaning them super hard.
These are the ones which leaped out because the twisted off the sprue marks are on parts of the model with detail. Sides of the heads of the Zzor, the shoulders and feet of helga, the shoulders of the robots. I will either have a divet, a damaged spot or resculpt. If they were left on the sprue, I could have used a sharp knife.
These models are unacceptable and are the result of sloppy factory work and could have been prevented.
I feel lied to due to the quality of the sculpting and the ignoring of feedback and betrayed with the just shameful sloppy product. When I get the rest of my models, I will attempt to sell off the entire batch to recoup some of my money because I doubt Mantic will fix everything or give me a refund since their molds were fundamentally designed wrong.
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Post by: adamsouza
Mine are not that bad.
They must be having quality control issues overseas.
Mantic needs to move to domestic production of models
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Post by: DaveC
Wow that's bad they seem to be very hit and miss on the mold lines none of mine are like that I went through everything as soon as I got them to make sure - I'm missing the arms from a Void Siren Striker and Jack but they are being sent on to me.
I put the Void Sirens together the other day and other than a miscast on the Guards foot (both had it so it seems to be a casting issue which I fixed in about 2 minutes with greenstuff - though I shouldn't have to) I had very little clean up and no major issues - I did have to heat treat the bases to flatten them out.
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Post by: Compel
My robots were pretty bad
But, to be honest, nowhere near as bad as that. I think my Helder turned out fine.
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Post by: Pacific
OK having just put in an order for a load of the 2nd season stuff, that has got me quite worried! Those really are some very bad mold lines.
Will post my findings when they arrive..
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Post by: Bolognesus
PM me when the time comes; we'll discuss naming and appropriate tattoos
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Post by: Azazelx
Damn, I'm going to have to check mine in more detail now. The only one I've looked at properly was Buzzcut, who is currently sitting primed on my desk.
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Post by: scarletsquig
You should definitely email them asking for a replacement, they've said they're happy to replace any miniature which has unacceptable flash.
I agree that Mantic needs to send a box full of clippers over to China along with instructions on how to use them, the "twisting off" of the sprue that they do over there can be really damaging, I'd also prefer the minis to come attached to sprue which I can then remove myself in a careful manner rather than having a $40/ day wage Chinese dude (who doesn't give a damn about the little grey kiddie toys) do it.
The sooner Mantic gets back to hard plastic the better IMO. I'm not sure why they don't just go back to Renedra. I know it's £40k for a 5-man sprue using them and there's a year-long waiting list, but kickstarter would fund that no problem, the minis would be awesome, with almost zero flash and would be half or less than half the price of restic. Even if it means them having to slow down their release schedule, hard plastic is one giant list of "win" as far as consumer value goes.
Or of they want the best of both worlds, hire Wargames Factory for the tooling. That's one company in China that actually takes wargames seriously rather than seeing it as some sort of kids toy thing.
They're just as busy as Renedra though, no surprises there!
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Post by: HisDivineShadow
How is this restic material to work with? I know I've probably been spoiled by Gw plastics, but I've recently been going at some old school Warzone figs I've had in a box, generally hating life and working on this plastic they are made of.
Is restic the same or better?
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Post by: Azazelx
scarletsquig wrote:
The sooner Mantic gets back to hard plastic the better IMO. I'm not sure why they don't just go back to Renedra. I know it's £ 40k for a 5-man sprue using them and there's a year-long waiting list, but kickstarter would fund that no problem, the minis would be awesome, with almost zero flash and would be half or less than half the price of restic. Even if it means them having to slow down their release schedule, hard plastic is one giant list of "win" as far as consumer value goes.
Or of they want the best of both worlds, hire Wargames Factory for the tooling. That's one company in China that actually takes wargames seriously rather than seeing it as some sort of kids toy thing.
They're just as busy as Renedra though, no surprises there!
Or get in contact with these guys, and work with them from the ground floor up!
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/524434.page
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Post by: Krinsath
I've had no major issues with it; though I've not needed to do a whole lot.
Looking over mine so far, my robots are similar but no where near that bad. The Zz'or look as though there might be some minor mold lines but the rest, at least at first glance, don't appear to have any serious casting issues.
I do dislike the way the models are removed from the sprue though. A few places where it has already skirted very close to model damage, and I'd be surprised at this point if I get through all the models without at least some being needlessly damaged by that. Definitely something that Mantic should address with the manufacturer.
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Post by: timetowaste85
Quick question, not sure if it was answered anywhere in the KS comments or earlier in this thread...did we not get Wyn Greth'Zki, Nightshade or Yurik in this bundle? I thought they were coming in this shipment, and my box was definitely lacking them. I already emailed Stew to check, but I know he's busy, so I thought I'd ask here too. I haven't seen anyone else recently question them missing, so either mine got missed and I need them shipped out, or they're coming in the next shipment and I missed that memo...
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Post by: Compel
Nope, they're due for the 3rd season. Along with 'Riller'
The things that tend to be actually missing models in this one is:
A Zzor Jack accidently being replaced with a guard. (will be added in in season 3)
Orcy can be missing from the Coaches set.
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Post by: timetowaste85
Awesome, thanks. I don't mind having an extra Zzor guard-my favorite team, with my favorite position. Hell, Mantic doesn't even have to fix it in my case, I don't mind the change!
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Post by: Azazelx
Works out to an extra model overall, so I'm sure it won't hurt long-term. I'll hold off on painting them till I get the extra model though, so they all get the same paint.
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Post by: timetowaste85
Not me-the Zz'or are the first things I'm painting from season 2. They were definitely my team of choice from this game due to their image. Team-wide "can't feel a thing" doesn't suck either.
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Post by: BobtheInquisitor
HisDivineShadow wrote:How is this restic material to work with? I know I've probably been spoiled by Gw plastics, but I've recently been going at some old school Warzone figs I've had in a box, generally hating life and working on this plastic they are made of.
Is restic the same or better?
Restic's pretty crappy. The mold lines are trickier to clean because you have to cut them off rather than scrape them off, the models almost always require heat-rebending, and they don't work with superglue.
It's actually a pretty good reason to skip the Deadzone KS and wait for the Warpath "hard plastics" KS.
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Post by: Buzzsaw
BobtheInquisitor wrote: HisDivineShadow wrote:How is this restic material to work with? I know I've probably been spoiled by Gw plastics, but I've recently been going at some old school Warzone figs I've had in a box, generally hating life and working on this plastic they are made of.
Is restic the same or better?
Restic's pretty crappy. The mold lines are trickier to clean because you have to cut them off rather than scrape them off, the models almost always require heat-rebending, and they don't work with superglue.
It's actually a pretty good reason to skip the Deadzone KS and wait for the Warpath "hard plastics" KS.
Wait, restic does work with superglue (at least my models have taken to it); do you meant they won't work with plastic cement/solvent?
Mold lines is a definite agreement though, they are perplexingly different to deal with then either metal or plastic. Irritating. I have some new diamond files I have heard people mention as the key to it, but haven't gotten round yet...
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Post by: BobtheInquisitor
Yeah, I meant they don't work with plastic glue, so you have to use superglue. Somehow, it did not come out as intended, making me look foolish.
A perfect metaphor for a Mantic KS discussion..?
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Post by: scarletsquig
I'm going to have to get around to trying out PVC cement on restic one of these days.
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Post by: PsychoticStorm
I cannot understand why there is such big variation in quality, mine did not have such horrendous clippings nor such huge mouldlines, at least on first good inspection.
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Post by: OrlandotheTechnicoloured
scarletsquig wrote:I'm going to have to get around to trying out PVC cement on restic one of these days.
I bought myself a small can to try out
haven't got round to it yet though but I'll report back when I do
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Post by: nkelsch
I have to say, the metal MVP is amazing, both in detail and casting quality.
Makes me wish the entire product line was metal.
I can deal with mold lines, but putting them down the middle of a face or putting injection points on detail is a mold design issue. There are specific techniques to sculpt and carve up models to minimize where mold lines hit detail and make injection points invisible. This could all be a problem with the casting and mold design company they use.
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Post by: Triple9
Received mine yesterday.
My season 1 was pretty rough and after cleaning them up I lost all motivation for working with Restic. I still haven't done anything with SW because of my season 1 experience. That said, my season 2 look heads and tails better. Most of the extra flash seems to be around the bases and the mold lines appear less prominent and better placed. No issues with minis torn from sprues. These will be much easier to clean and paint up.
Held off on adding the season 3 teams, but will definitely add them in if/when they open up the pledge manager again.
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Post by: richred_uk
My Season 2 stuff just got put straight in a box with the untouched Season 1 stuff tbh - I can't really be bothered to check the models.
From Season 1 I started to build and paint the Corporation team. A mixture of (1) HATING the restic material for hard to trim mould lines and it seeming to be quite random as to if the parts wanted to fit or bond with my cyanoacrylate or not and (2) the sculpts having the detail too shallow to make painting pleasurable made me abandon the whole thing.
Part of me kicks myself for not buying the teams in metal when I had the chance at a great price, but now I just can't summon up the energy to do anything with them so they'll sit until something persuades me to sell or paint them.
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Post by: decker_cky
PsychoticStorm wrote:I cannot understand why there is such big variation in quality, mine did not have such horrendous clippings nor such huge mouldlines, at least on first good inspection.
Ronnie hates nkelsch so makes sure that all the bad models go to him.
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Post by: scarletsquig
nkelsch wrote:I have to say, the metal MVP is amazing, both in detail and casting quality.
Makes me wish the entire product line was metal.
Yeah, the metal casting is all done in-house by Mantic, and the guy that does it really knows his stuff.
Restic casting is done in China, which can be a bit more of a crapshoot at the best of times.
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Post by: OrlandotheTechnicoloured
I fear Mantic may have paid for a production schedule that would take, for example 3 weeks (and give relatively mould line free figures) but part way into the run the factory got offered another job so they've turned the speed up on the machines to finish Mantic's job faster without telling them so they can squeeze in extra work for somebody else (giving some figures with excessive lines as the moulds are opened before everything is fully solidified)
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Post by: nkelsch
scarletsquig wrote:
Restic casting is done in China, which can be a bit more of a crapshoot at the best of times.
So? What is Mantic going to do to address this? Apparently their attitude is "we don't care, enjoy your poorly made cheap models, we have your money"
If 'China factory' is the excuse that they are going to blame, then maybe their 'cheap' business is not sustainable, and they need to raise prices to the costs of other companies in order to make quality products. They may need to work with casting companies who pay attention to detail and are experienced in making miniatures.
Every other Kickstarter, from large company to small start up seems to not be falling into this same pit of 'Not our fault the casting sucks'. Other companies seem to have found solutions for casting in large numbers, small numbers and multiple material types and still seem to deliver quality models for good value.
It seems like the growing concerns are going unaddressed and excuses are being made by Mantic and their Bucket Brigade.
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