Date: 15th February 2013

Dear Mutant Chronicles Warzone Fans.
Firstly we would like to thank you for all the support and excitement you have shown for ‘Warzone Resurrection’. We are truly blown away by it! We would also like to thank you for your constructive feedback, which has helped us tread the fine line between the old and the new. We are very proud and excited by what has been produced and we hope you are too! After all - you’ve kept the dream alive for the last 20 years.
So as we promised, today is the day… the big reveal! What does that mean? Well, firstly we are able to present the three factions we have decided to lead with, namely Dark Legion, The Brotherhood and the MegaCorporation Cybertronic. It is also the day we launch the ‘Kickstarter’ project to finance the fourth faction MegaCorporation Bauhaus.

Our Kickstrater page :http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/513277403/mutant-chronicles-warzone-resurrection

We understand some people are not keen on the concept of ‘Kickstarter’ and as such wanted to explain a couple of things.
1. We intend for all products we have developed so far for the first 3 factions to be available in June 2013. The Kickstarter project (its success or failure) will not affect these plans.
2. We have a stretched goal for ‘Kickstarter’ which will allow us to manufacture the ‘starter boxes’ in plastic. If we do not meet this the starter will be made (like the rest of the initial releases) in high grade resin.
If you do not wish to support a Kickstarter project, but still want a Warzone Resurrection force (or two), you will be able to pre-order them from our website (warzonegame.com), after the Kickstarter, to receive in June. Or you can order them for near-immediate delivery after the release date from the same site.

We also intend to sell through FLGS. So if you know one that you think should stock Warzone Resurrection, let us know!
Another key thing is that we have designed a new game system; one that like everything else in Warzone Resurrection is a mixture of old and new. Key to this is the skirmish approach and the D20 of old, but we have also incorporated algorithms from computer game programming (for balance) and card play (to represent environmental, wargear and personnel effects on the battle). But be assured, Mutant Chronicles Warzone Resurrection is still primarily a tabletop 28mm scale miniature skirmish game and a very good, exciting and gripping one at that!

Kind Regards and Happy Gaming

Jarek, Mark and Michal (Prodos Games Ltd.)











Wallpapers

This might explain the big sale at Prince August minis jyst recently.

I'd say you guys seem to be taking lessons from GW on previews and teasers, but I guess this case is a little different since it's basically the return of a dead (?) game. Or at least I *think* it's a dead game since I've not seen it anywhere, in webstores or brick and mortar, in many years.

Don't know anything about it, either, since it died out right around the same time I got into miniature gaming. Curious enough to keep an eye on it, though.


Especially interested as I'm definitely in the market for a new 40K-scale Sci-Fi game, both in terms of model size and number of models used, and there seems to be a surprising dearth of those kinds of games. The only one I can think of off the top of my head is Warpath.

finally!

Nice. Hope it makes a good comeback and sticks around. I still have a bunch of my old figures from like '94.

Wonder if they will have any new plastics about

I can only say... only new range

Hope this is a 28mm tabletop game with new minis, not 40mm, not a computer game.
Warzone - In the Future there is only War

Well it is about time. My Capitol forces have been getting lazy.

I'm skeptical. I've was victimized by Warzones collapse the first time around.

I'll give it a chance, because I was a huge supporter the first time. Cybertronics raise again!

I remember Mutant Chronicles when I was but a lad... always wanted to play it again

 Kroothawk wrote:
Hope this is a 28mm tabletop game with new minis, not 40mm, not a computer game.
Warzone - In the Future there is only War

Tabletop 28mm


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Byte wrote:
I'm skeptical. I've was victimized by Warzones collapse the first time around.

I'll give it a chance, because I was a huge supporter the first time. Cybertronics raise again!

Wait for 2nd teaser !!!!

have you a website I may gander at?

 Warzone Resurrection wrote:

 Kroothawk wrote:
Hope this is a 28mm tabletop game with new minis, not 40mm, not a computer game.
Warzone - In the Future there is only War

Tabletop 28mm


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Byte wrote:
I'm skeptical. I've was victimized by Warzones collapse the first time around.

I'll give it a chance, because I was a huge supporter the first time. Cybertronics raise again!

Wait for 2nd teaser !!!!

Yes! I was beginning to think it was a video game!

and

Yes!! Excited for the 2nd teaser!

 Byte wrote:

 Warzone Resurrection wrote:

 Kroothawk wrote:
Hope this is a 28mm tabletop game with new minis, not 40mm, not a computer game.
Warzone - In the Future there is only War

Tabletop 28mm


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Byte wrote:
I'm skeptical. I've was victimized by Warzones collapse the first time around.

I'll give it a chance, because I was a huge supporter the first time. Cybertronics raise again!

Wait for 2nd teaser !!!!

Yes! I was beginning to think it was a video game!

and

Yes!! Excited for the 2nd teaser!

MORE TO COME!

OK. I'm hooked! Can't wait. Thanks for the teaser!

Oh my god that sculpt is YEARS ahead of the old Warzone sculpts.

Oh wait, we are years past 1995.

Man, I loved this game, it was my teething period of wargaming. I know a friend of mine who will be very happy with this.

Interesting. Warzone was big in my area during 1st edition, but 2nd edition somehow killed it. I did pick up a ton of models when we were playing, though - which range from awful to still-quite-good.

I hate videos like this, they really have to stop.

Much to do about nothing. Show us some tangibles or go home.

Hey uh good luck and all, I really like WZ back in the day and still have my old Mutant Chronicles RPG books.

But this is what? The 4th WZ revival? Unless there's something radically new, like all plasyics, I can't see it even making a ripple.

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 Warzone Resurrection wrote:


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Curse you! I just felt a bit of excitement!

Kid K- You missed the Cybertronic teaser. It was taken down. Sweet!

please tell me these'll be plastic. I remember playing the boardgame and the CCG way back in the day. I'll be all over these if they're plastic. Plus, I'd like to have a nice, fleshed out Imperial force.

I really wish the RPG would be brought back instead to be honest. Although I do still love the mutant chronicles universe.

 Moopy wrote:
I hate videos like this, they really have to stop.

Much to do about nothing. Show us some tangibles or go home.

I accept it when its actually something I might want
where as with GW its always crap

If the models are plastic or resin, I will buy the Capital and Cybertronic forces I have always wanted

My Mishima are complete but I wouldn't mind adding some Trenchers to my collection so I want to be hopeful this launch goes right.

M.

No word of this until 15 days before launch? I'm still getting excited about this.

Warzone was my first love after 40k 2nd Edition. I started with 1st, played 2nd, survived the first crash, own Ultimate Warzone (and played the hell out of it years after it died) and have a Bauhaus collection to rival the Dark Angels I have been collecting for 17 years. I don't care if the game has burned me twice (I don't count the pre-paint... thing, had the poor luck to play it once and then avoided it), I am already excited for this.

My birthday is also on the 15th, so thanks in advance for the best gift ever!

Now don't die on us, or I may have to kill ya.

 Ronin_eX wrote:
Warzone was my first love after 40k 2nd Edition. I started with 1st, played 2nd, survived the first crash, own Ultimate Warzone (and played the hell out of it years after it died) and have a Bauhaus collection to rival the Dark Angels I have been collecting for 17 years. I don't care if the game has burned me twice (I don't count the pre-paint... thing, had the poor luck to play it once and then avoided it), I am already excited for this.

My birthday is also on the 15th, so thanks in advance for the best gift ever!

Now don't die on us, or I may have to kill ya.

I agree on all points 100%.

Think we'll see squad activation again? hehe.

Heh, hopefully, been a while since a good, alternating-activation game came around. More have started to come out again lately, but for my money, few managed to do it as well as Warzone. That said, being the current owner of every single edition of Warzone (and every supplement to boot) I am less interested in the rules (though I will buy them the second they begin existing in a form that I can get) and more interested in a new range of minis. My Cybertronic, Mishima, Sons of Rasputin and even Bauhaus are missing things I would love to have, but were quickly sold out when the game tanked last time. Even if the rules end up not being to my taste, they have my dollar because I can always use what they sell in a game of 1st, 2nd or UWZ.

And there will probably finally be non-drek Dark Apostles stuff now (especially Nepharites, they never got those suckers right), I may actually have to start an army of 'em up (speaking of which, this should make Chaos players happy, soon they'll have an awesome source of marked cultists).

Giving credit where is due Warzone could take a page from GW and have the Nefarites mimic the DPs with more impresive miniatures and make them the center piece of the Dark armies.
Plus legionnaries, lots of legionnaries dressed in the remains of the Corporation armies.

M.

I'd be happy with them just matching the art. I love the art of Nepharites, but the minis... they make me throw up in my mouth a little (and I say this with all the love in the world).

Overfed Nefarites .

M.

Echoing the sentiment of a few others on here...please, please, please be plastic minis.

HMMMM! Now I can use my warzone minis to play warzone again! They will be so happy they don't have to be crappy guardsmen anymore! Well at least not all the time.

So it's coming out on the 15th but the advertised website has nothing on it, not even the video. Good professional start there.

Looks like I had to join up for this.

Looking forward to that second teaser!

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Join US:

http://www.facebook.com/groups/121888887983248/

SHOULDER PADS!

*ahem*

Sorry, lost composure for a second.

 Ronin_eX wrote:
SHOULDER PADS!

*ahem*

Sorry, lost composure for a second.

Somebody changed his avatar

M.

Heh, yeah, Warzone and Infinity fight over the place in my heart for favourite minis game. So I figure in lieu of the new release that I may as well sport the colours again. Afterall:

"When it has to be the best, it has to be Bauhaus."
- Ministry of Truth slogan

Oh man. Looks like I need to go into the catacombs and clear the dust off some boxes. Good thing I never converted my Grizzly to 40k.

Warzone is awesome and all, but I'm hoping for a spark of Chronopia! That game was the best.

Baby steps...baby steps..

Check out the Facebook page 'Warzone Resurrection', you'll see the first new gun off the production line!!

Will there be a proper website with forums? I am huge fan of MC/WZ universe but I will not join facebook. Anyway I am exited that long dead game is back. I had last game of WZ about 10 years ago and sold my Mishima army. I cannot wait to see new sculpts for Deathbringer, Meka or Dragonbike.

This is such great news! Just a couple of months ago I was browsing through old MC/WZ-pictures, wondering why no one had rediscovered the potential of this universe and made a proper miniature game out of it with miniatures that match the art! From what I've seen this could be awesome, I'm so going to support this!

Dear God, looking at that shoulder pad brings back so many memories. I'm guessing it's a nepharite, right? Not Alakhai himself perhaps? Looks like his gear.

I don't know why I think it's going to be an Immaculate Fury but I'm probably wron there.

M.

..."sneaky peek"?

Anyway, heard a lot about Warzone but never really played it, it died before I really got interested in wargaming. My interest is piqued, though personally I think that gun that one dude is holding looks a little ridiculous. Just a little.

There will indeed be a Website based forum!
The website will go live on the 15th Feb
www.warzonegame.com

 His Master's Voice wrote:
Dear God, looking at that shoulder pad brings back so many memories. I'm guessing it's a nepharite, right? Not Alakhai himself perhaps? Looks like his gear.

heeh its one of them

More to come!

Warzone is awesome and all, but I'm hoping for a spark of Chronopia! That game was the best.

Hear, hear! IU never got to play that game but always wished I had. I would much rather a "new" medieval game than a new sci-fi game on the market, although Warzone probably has better brand recognition with old gamers.

 scipio.au wrote:
Interesting. Warzone was big in my area during 1st edition, but 2nd edition somehow killed it. I did pick up a ton of models when we were playing, though - which range from awful to still-quite-good.

Played the Sh*t out of it at my local store with some of my friends, warzone 1st ed. and chronopia, 2nd edition sucked!

 Warzone Resurrection wrote:
heeh its one of them

More to come!

The shoulder pad looks slightly different here compared to the classic Paul Bonner illustration of Alakhai (dunno if the sculpt is finished), but the sword really looks like Meat Wolfer.

Sweet! We'll get to watch WarZone die AGAIN! Usually don't get to see that three times.


If it was a good game or well run company, it wouldn't have died twice before. Pass.

I hope that this works.

I bought the 2nd ed (?) boxed set and an embryonic Imperial army shortly before the whole thing collapsed but I never got to play it. I like the setting though and while most of the miniatures were quite horrible hopefully this time will be different

 Necros wrote:
Nice. Hope it makes a good comeback and sticks around. I still have a bunch of my old figures from like '94.

I used to play it at a LGS around 1994. Was a shame to see it suddenly disappear. Ill be keeping an eye on this for sure.


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 Ronin_eX wrote:
Heh, yeah, Warzone and Infinity fight over the place in my heart for favourite minis game. So I figure in lieu of the new release that I may as well sport the colours again. Afterall:

"When it has to be the best, it has to be Bauhaus."
- Ministry of Truth slogan

I too was a Bauhaus player.

 Sidstyler wrote:
My interest is piqued, though personally I think that gun that one dude is holding looks a little ridiculous. Just a little.

It's a Kratach. It's classic and therefore immune to ridiculous. It's also carried by a necrotech zombie.

You know what? At my age, and after my current binge of better sculpted, *almost* realistic models (compared to GW), I could live with a little over the top heroic shenanigans if it meant I could play Warzone again.

Bauhaus all the day. I still have a squad of Étoiles Mortants (the translation, it burns!!!!)

The real question is -

Are you bringing back the resin vehicles, and updated heavy stuff?

I've STILL got my guys from back in the day. Going to have to dig them back out.

I miss the old armorcast resin blocks. If you lost the game, you could still kill your opponent with.

Chomping at the bit for the boxes of boardgame stuff. Hoping for more of the same styles.

( Those board games were really neat.)

Wheres the Website?

Definitely very interested!

Mult-part plastics of the core troops would be great. Can we tone down the shoulder pads just a bit though? Lol. Not a lot, just a bit.

Please, please, please make sure you post news around places other than Facebook. Not all of us use it, and not all of us who do want their hobbies in it.

@Mattlov: It was an awesome game. Companies keep dying under it though...

Eagerly awaiting more info.

~Eric

Taarnak wrote:
Definitely very interested!

Mult-part plastics of the core troops would be great. Can we tone down the shoulder pads just a bit though? Lol. Not a lot, just a bit.

Please, please, please make sure you post news around places other than Facebook. Not all of us use it, and not all of us who do want their hobbies in it.

@Mattlov: It was an awesome game. Companies keep dying under it though...

Eagerly awaiting more info.

~Eric

No worries, I'll post "Sneaky peeks" on daily basis here ... TONs of stuff to show!

Taarnak wrote:
Mult-part plastics of the core troops would be great. Can we tone down the shoulder pads just a bit though? Lol. Not a lot, just a bit.

No, they must be BIGGER! Privateer Press upped the ante with Epic Vlad, a new edition of Warzone cannot stand for such an affront. Shoulder pads for the shoulder pad god, square jaws for the jaw throne!

And more vehicles that you could swear are just mobile toilets!

Taarnak wrote:
@Mattlov: It was an awesome game. Companies keep dying under it though...

Yeah the fall of Target Games was actually just part of a larger puzzle. Target Games was just one division of a company that ended up going bankrupt. When this happened, the relatively tiny tabletop gaming department (along with attached minis company Heartbreaker) couldn't hope to stand on their own. The computer gaming division (which you may know as Paradox Entertainment these days, they own Paradox Interactive who do some amazing historical games) kept afloat and ended up buying the rights to Mutant Chronicles/Warzone/Chronopia/etc.

They then licensed off the rights to a little (really little, as in, one guy) called Excelsior Entertainment. Their products were a labour of love but they were basically vanity press projects. They took way too long to publish and things kept on getting delayed. So when the license came up for renewal last time, Paradox decided to pull the plug.

Neither time had much to do with the games and had more to do with the companies they were attached to. With Target it was almost completely unrelated to the game (which was actually around as popular as 40k at the time of the crash). Had they not been expanding so much at the time, they may have even survived. But with two major game lines (one with limited plastic production), an RPG, some board games and an upcoming spin-off (oh how I long for Chronopia Empires). Well, yeah, they would have needed a new source of funding, stat.

In the case of Excelsior, it was a case of the company being too small to handle the production. Every time there was a personal issue of any kind, it created massive project delays. Even if Paradox hadn't pulled the plug, I doubt it would have lasted much longer on its own. The rules-work was amazing, the point system they used was great but outside of keeping minis in production they didn't really accomplish much (only a handful of minis ever made in house, and while better than 1st Edition, paled in comparison to the 2nd Edition stuff).

So we will have to wait and see on this new company, but they already seem to have their heads in the right place. Leading in with presentation of minis rather than doing like Excelsior and making it all about producing a new rulebook. Minis are what get people excited. Had they been showing shots of the old stuff then I would have probably moved on, but that they are investing in a new line means that this feels like a proper reboot.

Now, what I'm wondering, is which era of the background are they going with.

Between Mutant Chronicles (the RPG), Warzone 1st (closest to Mutant Chronicles), Warzone 2nd (huge departure) or Ultimate Warzone (a hybrid of 1E/2E that hews closer to 1st in terms of background material). The game had almost as much background variance as you see from Rogue Trader to modern 40k, especially later attempts (FFG and whatever company was trying to dot he reboot RPG years back... when they decided to remove Cybertronic). They could even choose to do it in a newer era, since the game is big on cycles. But personally, I hope they move back toward 1E/MC background for the most part. It always seemed to have the proper amount of 2000AD-esque-ness to it in those days (yes, that is a word).

I played and enjoyed warzone a fair bit during my late teens. However, today I'm way more sensitive to unbalanced and/or badly written rules. So I wonder if there will be crowdsourced playtesting (like the betatests of MMOs) or any other measures taken to ensure stringent balanced rulesets?

Because if this game too goes the way of Games Workshop in regard to rules being secondary to selling models, then I'm not interested.

Ah bugger, ofcourse this comes up only a few weeks after I finally managed to sell everything I had of my Wolves... Blasted, ah well, even though I burned my fingers on it time and again, it is also part of nostagia so keen to see how it'll work out.

I've sold all of my Warzone stuff a long time ago and I certainly do not regret that. Most of the range was pretty bad and what good there was wasn't blowing anyone's mind even when it was first released. Some of the Cybernetic and Capitol stuff, especially the Light Infantry and Shock Troopers were okay, but does anyone remember Brotherhood? Or the horrid Dark Legion range?

Yeah, Bauhaus and Imperial got all the love when 2nd Edition rolled around (though Capitol was starting to shape up from their 1st Edition baseball caps and football helmet days). The basic Hussars, Blood Berets, Dragoons and even basic plastic infantry was all great. Most of the other lines barely had any update during 2nd since Target died after only two army book releases. And the Dark Legion was definitely the worst of the bunch because their line was huge and had barely anything updated in the new edition. If it wasn't for Kev White being attached to so many other projects right now, I would be praying for him to be part of this one too, his work really brought the Warzone universe to life. Just the right amount of over-the-top in there.

you say bad I say charm


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Prodos wrote:


There will indeed be a Website based forum!
The website will go live on the 15th Feb
www.warzonegame.com

thats one guaranteed present on my birthday then

Very excited about this! Still got the old Mutant Chronicles RPG knocking about in my shed/man pit somewhere. Nostalgia attack here we come (last time that happened I ended up with 3 40k armies).

Laney

Mellon wrote:
I played and enjoyed warzone a fair bit during my late teens. However, today I'm way more sensitive to unbalanced and/or badly written rules. So I wonder if there will be crowdsourced playtesting (like the betatests of MMOs) or any other measures taken to ensure stringent balanced rulesets?

Because if this game too goes the way of Games Workshop in regard to rules being secondary to selling models, then I'm not interested.

Balancing: team of 12 educated brains atm, but there is still place for more,so if you are based in UK (Midlands) and interested just drop me PM.

Game play: revolution in tabletop gaming (rly, no joke!) and D20, Skirmish.... man... I'm selling too much info !

more to come!

Awesome, time to break out my treasure trove of ancient dice.

Ah, good to see the D20 and skirmish scale are sticking around. Always loved the granularity of the venerable D20, enough room for really minor tweaks to be made, but easier to roll en masse than percentile or something with a bell-curve to it (and thus, multiple dice). Which edition are you drawing the most inspiration from (if any at all)? I kind of liked Ultimate's half-way approach, with the balance of 2nd mixing with the flavour of 1st. But I could certainly see other ways of going with it. And I still enjoy me some games of 1st Edition (even if characters were insanely broken in it). Something about it basically being an RPG where you got to control your dude and a couple of squads was fun. 2nd Edition had some nice initial balance (ruined by the two army books) but was so, damn flavourless (and it's weapon range-band system was way too clunky for my taste).

Something that starts from the simplicity of 1st Edition, keeps some of that character generation stuff for making your own hero, but keeps a keen eye on balance between the armies (and making sure characters aren't better or worse for the points than they should be) would be my ideal. Ultimate hewed closer to 2nd in rules-terms but brought back a lot of the lovely flavour (like not having generic weapon profiles for all assault rifles). That was a great way to go, but I'd almost like to see what happens if you go from the opposite end and start with 1st, moving toward 2nd/UWZ on the balance axis.

 Ronin_eX wrote:
Ah, good to see the D20 and skirmish scale are sticking around. Always loved the granularity of the venerable D20, enough room for really minor tweaks to be made, but easier to roll en masse than percentile or something with a bell-curve to it (and thus, multiple dice). Which edition are you drawing the most inspiration from (if any at all)? I kind of liked Ultimate's half-way approach, with the balance of 2nd mixing with the flavour of 1st. But I could certainly see other ways of going with it. And I still enjoy me some games of 1st Edition (even if characters were insanely broken in it). Something about it basically being an RPG where you got to control your dude and a couple of squads was fun. 2nd Edition had some nice initial balance (ruined by the two army books) but was so, damn flavourless (and it's weapon range-band system was way too clunky for my taste).

Something that starts from the simplicity of 1st Edition, keeps some of that character generation stuff for making your own hero, but keeps a keen eye on balance between the armies (and making sure characters aren't better or worse for the points than they should be) would be my ideal. Ultimate hewed closer to 2nd in rules-terms but brought back a lot of the lovely flavour (like not having generic weapon profiles for all assault rifles). That was a great way to go, but I'd almost like to see what happens if you go from the opposite end and start with 1st, moving toward 2nd/UWZ on the balance axis.

My friend, our 1st rule in this project is "Balance of forget about it!"
Max I can say is "going between " but we are making balanced/strategy/tactical game, therefore it must containssssssssssss ...... lest say "many aspects" of Strategy. I can assure you, your brain will hurt due to "extreme usage of your grey cells" after game! ... it will be a revolution (20+ years in tabletop gaming and I have not seen anything like this before) ...unlimited number of strategies/tactical movements !... man definitely not boring 3+,3+ 3+ .....

This game is made by Strategist for Strategist! And imho, this is only one way to stay on the market for many many years!
OK I must stop here

I still use about 40 of the Bauhaus militia as a troop of Cultists, and 30 Imperial regulars as another one. They were super cheap on eBay, and I'll be trying to get kids to use those as IG in my school league. They still look fine once you're not holding them 6 inches away form your eyes.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Anyone here seen the fan movie made about Mutant Chronicles?

 Mathieu Raymond wrote:

Anyone here seen the fan movie made about Mutant Chronicles?

Oh god, I have that awful movie on DVD. I picked it up the day it was released. Not even Ron Pearlman and John Malkovich could save it.

As for this game, I'm really looking forward to seeing what they do with it. A group of us worked for Target games as playtesters and demo teams waaaaaaaay back in the day (we even ran their games at the very first Origins) and always talk in wistful nostalgia about Warzone/Chonopia, wishing the games still existed. My current gaming group has only ever heard rumors and tales of the old days from me. In 1994, some of the minis were god-awful (Brotherhood Sergent). I'm excited to see the revamp almost 20 years later!

May Cardinal Durand look favorably on this venture!

I'm going to keep an eye on this since I already own a significant number of Bauhaus and Imperial plastics (120 of each), it would be nice to use them for the game they were designed for rather than just an Imperial Guard army. Not that I plan to stop making the guard army mind you, given the number of models I've got I should be able to get multiple armies built.

Yeah, the nice thing about WZ's skirmish scale and the 2nd Edition box was that you always had so many left over that they were perfect for other projects. I rarely got a chance to field more than 20 Ducal Militia at a given time and I have 80 of the blighters (and more that aren't even built). To add insult to injury, I tend to use Hussars more anyways. I think I fielded them all in a grand total of one game (and that sucker took a good long time to play).

 Warzone Resurrection wrote:

Mellon wrote:
I played and enjoyed warzone a fair bit during my late teens. However, today I'm way more sensitive to unbalanced and/or badly written rules. So I wonder if there will be crowdsourced playtesting (like the betatests of MMOs) or any other measures taken to ensure stringent balanced rulesets?

Because if this game too goes the way of Games Workshop in regard to rules being secondary to selling models, then I'm not interested.

Balancing: team of 12 educated brains atm, but there is still place for more,so if you are based in UK (Midlands) and interested just drop me PM.

Game play: revolution in tabletop gaming (rly, no joke!) and D20, Skirmish.... man... I'm selling too much info !

more to come!

Thanks for the leak then ;-)

It sounds like you have the right attitude towards the projekt. I'm looking forward to getting a closer look at it!

Warzone has interested me, ended up missing out on it for being too young but a local gaming center had an Imperial army on display about 5 years ago.

Ironically it was the Mutant Chronicles film that got me interested in the Warzone universe, hell I even managed to track down a copy of the Imperial book.

Warzone...balanced rules...D20...skirmish scale...

If you can keep all that...Im totally in, so very in.


Man this year is gonna be expensive for gaming...so many good things are coming out.

Ohh nostalgia.
Just knowing that it's going to be d20 system makes me happy. Like Ronin I want this to be close to 1st edition but without the Nimrod totting fully kitted Blood Beret Hero.

M.

ok, as it's after midnight !!!!!
meet Cybertronic Chasseur s



http://www.facebook.com/WarzoneResurrection

Someone dares to touch that license again. Courageous. I still got plenty of Bauhaus here. Colour me interested.

I really like the pics so far. Am curious how that project will turn out all in all.

Well, I was never a fan of the first edition Chasseurs, but I guess you're going to stay with the 1st edition time period before Mk2 was introduced the so that's fine with me. And these look rather nice, perhaps with the exception of the chest armour. Not keen on that, doesn't look very Cybertronic to me.

Do you have anything for Brotherhood done? Like maybe the Mortificators? I was always a great fan of Sebastian Crenshaw, possibly because he was essentially Judge Dredd of the setting.

Edit: Wait, wasn't there a Mk1 chasseur mini doing the same clenched fist/stop gesture?

With GW heading for the cliff, there is actually room for another SciFi tabletop, more than when Warzone started.

Do previews and advertising, introductory games, quality sculpts, reasonable prices, good distribution, and support your fanbase, then the higher GW management in their isolation cells will have reason to get nervous

The chasseur sculpt is promising a high level of sculpts. The orginal sculpts aged a bit, although I still like many of those.
So good luck with not botching this (4th?) attempt. I am looking forward for Trenchers, Blood Berets, Wolfbairns (for Space Wolves!), Capitol Light Infantry, and the Bauhaus tank!

 Warzone Resurrection wrote:
ok, as it's after midnight !!!!!
meet Cybertronic Chasseur s



http://www.facebook.com/WarzoneResurrection

Yes! Looking forward to more!

 Warzone Resurrection wrote:
ok, as it's after midnight !!!!!
meet Cybertronic Chasseur s



http://www.facebook.com/WarzoneResurrection

Don't like the respirator one, the full mask looks good. The metal hands are perhaps too big they look too much like a GW power fist.

M.

looks like Bane... so I love it

I like those Chasseurs quite a bit. I've tracked down the old Warzone books and I like what I see both in terms of rules and fluff, though I haven't had time to thoroughly read them.

Definitely looking forward to more!

 Ronin_eX wrote:
With Target it was almost completely unrelated to the game (which was actually around as popular as 40k at the time of the crash). Had they not been expanding so much at the time, they may have even survived. But with two major game lines (one with limited plastic production), an RPG, some board games and an upcoming spin-off (oh how I long for Chronopia Empires). Well, yeah, they would have needed a new source of funding, stat.

Popular - yes. That popular - no way.

They had a strong, passionate following, but nothing like GW in depth and breadth. They weren't even what PP is now to GW.

I was flirting with the game in 2nd edition. Their 'new' models were very nice for the time. The plastics were a strong effort but sub par even then.

I'm intrigued, but not super optimistic, especially based on the renders thus far.

Bring it on I still have 20 or so light infantry from the capital forces with the drill sgt hats and gas masks. Hep there goes my spring budget.lol

WZ was pretty big in my gaming area. We were playing out of a chapter approved GW store as well. It was very popular. Excellent game system. Well before...

The collapse really torqued me.

a few questions.

Will the new line your making be compatible with the old lines? I see a render of a 'Kratach' assault rifle and it's a dead ringer for the weapons the original models had.

Will all factions be made? I see dark legion and cybertronic which is a nice start. if I can remember correctly the Dark legion had 4 or 5 factions and the humans had 7, I'm going off memory here.

Will this be a crowdfunded project? everyone seems to be going that direction and if the end result is plastic minis I could probably be talked into supporting it.

Will the models be on 25mm bases like the original models or 30mm bases like so many newer companys make?

Gamingdog wrote:


Will this be a crowdfunded project? everyone seems to be going that direction and if the end result is plastic minis I could probably be talked into supporting it.

If this a is cloak for a kickstarter, I'm out.

 Byte wrote:

 Warzone Resurrection wrote:
ok, as it's after midnight !!!!!
meet Cybertronic Chasseur s



http://www.facebook.com/WarzoneResurrection

Yes! Looking forward to more!

Got to say not a fan! I always hated the shirtless cybertronic guys and their bullet proof wifebeaters. There are much better ways to depict cyborgs. The only cybertronic minis I liked were the shock troopers and the hero character they had.

And please stay away from things like the capitol rangers wearing dusters and big silly hats and for GOD sake no football helmets. That was one of the things that I didn't like about the old miniature line, some of it was just silly some of it was just poorly executed. Most of the stuff that came out later was much better. Maybe tone down some of the nationalistic stuff, Clansmen were cool and all, but lets update them a little bit, make them less hookey. Same with Mashima, The Samurai thing is cool, but can we get something that at least looks sort of realistic, not just samurai armored guys with guns riding dragon go carts?

Ok, for the love of god, exercise some quality control with the miniatures lines this time. Keep scale consistency tight, and if you present people with tremendous artwork for what a unit is "supposed" to look like, be sure that the finished model actually looks something like it! I've admired the Warzone setting and its potential for a very long time, but the game has consistently been disappointed by its own miniatures at almost every turn.

The miniatures are key. I can tell you that unless the Bauhaus minis are really good, you are not going to sell any! The market is already flooded with the old plastics and unless the new ones are really good, here is what people will use for them.


Id love some plastic Panzerknackers to put on dreamforge stormtroopers!

Andrew1975 wrote: ''The miniatures are key. I can tell you that unless the Bauhaus minis are really good, you are not going to sell any! The market is already flooded with the old plastics and unless the new ones are really good, here is what people will use for them. ''

Andrew you are right! For me I feel that it is important to use the images and themes that are part of the cannon of WZ, but use cutting edge technology to make a miniature that acurately mirrors whats there. Think LOTR films, they were very faithfully to the book and hence the trilogy was a massive hit. Their problem now with the Hobbit is they have got too cocky and greedy and diverged too much from the book, hence the luke-warm reaction from the fan base. We have learnt from such reactions (and feel them ourselves). Prodos Gamesltd mission is to make cutting edge and amazing miniatures faithful to the cannon of mutant chronicles. If it wasn't though we would have been mad to aquire the licence. I hope that helps. These are very exciting times. Give us a chance and I think you will be very plesantly suprised. We aren't trying to be like anyone else, or steal their business. We want people to buy because they love what we are doing, in a great rich and absorbing concept universe of the MC IP.

 Gertjan wrote:
Ah bugger, ofcourse this comes up only a few weeks after I finally managed to sell everything I had of my Wolves... Blasted, ah well, even though I burned my fingers on it time and again, it is also part of nostagia so keen to see how it'll work out.

Luckily i am a hoarder, i have still all my warzone and chronopia stuff, although halfway away on the globe

I'm a little worried here, I love the original art and don't understand why the old concepts aren't being used. If this is going to be like FF's horrible try at MC with a whole new aesthetics I'm out! Cybertronic have an awesome aestethic, which the old CT minis failed to "actualize", that a skilled artist should be able to make wonders with!

 c0un7_z3r0 wrote:
I'm a little worried here, I love the original art and don't understand why the old concepts aren't being used.

So far we've seen a Legionnaire, Alakhai and a Chasseur. The first two look to be very faithful to their original depictions and Mk1 Chasseurs only ever had the miniatures, and the new ones seems to be following that aesthetic for good or worse.

 Andrew1975 wrote:
*picture of Dreamforge Stormtroopers

I don't think those make good Bauhaus stand-ins. Bauhaus had a strong WW1 Prussian vibe to it, not WW2 German.

 c0un7_z3r0 wrote:
I'm a little worried here, I love the original art and don't understand why the old concepts aren't being used. If this is going to be like FF's horrible try at MC with a whole new aesthetics I'm out! Cybertronic have an awesome aestethic, which the old CT minis failed to "actualize", that a skilled artist should be able to make wonders with!

is that more "classic" to you Sir ?



As we work under MC license, everything is approved by Paradox team and FREDRIK MALMBERG! the GOD/creator of MC cannon and he loves all bits so far






Automatically Appended Next Post:

Gamingdog wrote:
a few questions.

Will the new line your making be compatible with the old lines? I see a render of a 'Kratach' assault rifle and it's a dead ringer for the weapons the original models had.

Will all factions be made? I see dark legion and cybertronic which is a nice start. if I can remember correctly the Dark legion had 4 or 5 factions and the humans had 7, I'm going off memory here.

Will this be a crowdfunded project? everyone seems to be going that direction and if the end result is plastic minis I could probably be talked into supporting it.

Will the models be on 25mm bases like the original models or 30mm bases like so many newer companys make?

1. Yes
2. Aiming at 4 to 5 to start with !
3. Don't know yet ... it's good commercial tool... but don't know...
4. 30mm, but you can play with old models (25mm) as well (balance rules for 25mm included in rulebook )

That's an Atilla Cuirassier, right? A Machinator maybe?

 Warzone Resurrection wrote:
30mm, but you can play with old models (25mm) as well (balance rules for 25mm included in rulebook )

You actually have balance rules for older edition base sizes? What is this, I don't even...

If the alternative is between metal/resin on your own and plastic minis on KS, I could very well see myself sinking a bit of money on funding it.

If the alternative is between metal/resin on your own and plastic minis on KS, I could very well see myself sinking a bit of money on funding it.

Seconded.

Does '' Aiming at 4 to 5 to start with'' mean you will include only 4-5 faction in rulebook or just 4-5 factions will get new miniatures?

Shadow Walker wrote:
Does '' Aiming at 4 to 5 to start with'' mean you will include only 4-5 faction in rulebook or just 4-5 factions will get new miniatures?

Everything you need you will find in rulebook! ,

4 - 5 Corps/Legion with revamped range of minis to start with + MAYBE some new stuff not seen in 1st, 2nd and Ulti ,MAYBE



Automatically Appended Next Post:

 His Master's Voice wrote:
That's an Atilla Cuirassier, right? A Machinator maybe?

 Warzone Resurrection wrote:
30mm, but you can play with old models (25mm) as well (balance rules for 25mm included in rulebook )

You actually have balance rules for older edition base sizes? What is this, I don't even...

Is that bad thing? ... base in skirmish game is critical for balance and we don't want nobody to take an advantage of having a bit smaller base .... We think people will want to use the new models because they are so cool,
but are sure many will still want to play with their vintage stuff

I am cautiously optimistic about this news. Warzone was the first game I ever did any play testing with. I was a big Mishima and Brotherhood fan as well as having quite a few Imperial models. I sort of got lost once they introduced the tribes of earth, but otherwise I loved the setting. Fortunately model making has come a long way since the cybertronic walking Easter egg of doom. I will be following future developments very closely.

I am wary of Kickstarters, I haven't yet funded anything even though there have been some worthy projects. I am willing to make a start with Warzone though, provided that I can be reassured that the miniatures are high quality (looking good so far) and that the rules are decent.

 Warzone Resurrection wrote:
Is that bad thing?

On the contrary, I think that shows an unprecedented level of commitment to the rules if you think about how minimally different base sizes affect the overall balance of your rules set.

What I've seen looks ace so far. I'd go for a kickstarter if that's what was needed to get plastic minis (though I'd be happy with resin, I hate metal and I'd have to think very hard before putting money in).

Any chance of a related RPG (I loved that back in the day).

Laney

His Master's Voice wrote:

 c0un7_z3r0 wrote:
I'm a little worried here, I love the original art and don't understand why the old concepts aren't being used.

So far we've seen a Legionnaire, Alakhai and a Chasseur. The first two look to be very faithful to their original depictions and Mk1 Chasseurs only ever had the miniatures, and the new ones seems to be following that aesthetic for good or worse.

I was mostly talking about the cybertronics concepts, the Legionnaire looks really promising! Here is what I believe is the first chassuer picture, sure it's Coral Beach (the picture is used to depict chassuer units though) who is a Doom Trooper but that is what I'd expect them to look. May not fit everyone's taste but I like the simplicity of it.

Warzone Resurrection wrote:

 c0un7_z3r0 wrote:
I'm a little worried here, I love the original art and don't understand why the old concepts aren't being used. If this is going to be like FF's horrible try at MC with a whole new aesthetics I'm out! Cybertronic have an awesome aestethic, which the old CT minis failed to "actualize", that a skilled artist should be able to make wonders with!

is that more "classic" to you Sir ?



As we work under MC license, everything is approved by Paradox team and FREDRIK MALMBERG! the GOD/creator of MC cannon and he loves all bits so far

It's a really cool concept (looks like a robot version of a Razide) and would fit the Gears of War or Halo universe perfectly. But if that's your take on the Attila units or the like I will be quite disappointed, it's a big departure from the rather simplistic Cybertronic aesthetics which I love. I might be hard to please though, I've been playing most versions of MC from rpg's (before it was called Mutant Chronicles) to tabletop games (including the more family-friendly games like Siege of the Citadell, Blood Berets, Fury of the Clansmen) and I'm a die hard fan of those original incarnations. I understand if you feel the need to update the look somewhat but if you alter it too much I'm simply not interested. Here is what an Attila unit looks to me (I'd love to see a mini that makes this picture justice):

Don't worry, it's not Attila. I will pots new Attila in next couple of days, I can assure you that you wont be disappointed

 scipio.au wrote:

 Ronin_eX wrote:
With Target it was almost completely unrelated to the game (which was actually around as popular as 40k at the time of the crash). Had they not been expanding so much at the time, they may have even survived. But with two major game lines (one with limited plastic production), an RPG, some board games and an upcoming spin-off (oh how I long for Chronopia Empires). Well, yeah, they would have needed a new source of funding, stat.

Popular - yes. That popular - no way.

I wouldn't really be half surprised if it were. 40K was still pretty uncommon in most the US, and when I was in Germany during the late 1990s I think I met more people playing Warzone than 40K.

I do understand what you are saying c0un7_z3r0, but I honestly feel with all the baggage that the IP has for the tabletop game, if they do not re-imagine and innovate the designs the game could just flounder and die again. Which as another die hard fan would hate to see. I would prefer nods to the original designs with an updated look and feel to them.

Things like others have mentioned, retaining the iconic shoulder armor, but refining them to be more proportional.

Color me Excited beyond belief and hopeful that Warzone "sticks around" this time for good!

some clues what we might have here :

Chasseurs
Cuirassiers
Mirrormen
Enhanced Chasseur
Mark I "Machinator"
Mark III "Attila" - its definitely not this one

Mark I "Machinator"

Yummy!

 Sean_OBrien wrote:

 scipio.au wrote:

 Ronin_eX wrote:
With Target it was almost completely unrelated to the game (which was actually around as popular as 40k at the time of the crash). Had they not been expanding so much at the time, they may have even survived. But with two major game lines (one with limited plastic production), an RPG, some board games and an upcoming spin-off (oh how I long for Chronopia Empires). Well, yeah, they would have needed a new source of funding, stat.

Popular - yes. That popular - no way.

I wouldn't really be half surprised if it were. 40K was still pretty uncommon in most the US, and when I was in Germany during the late 1990s I think I met more people playing Warzone than 40K.

It was huge in the San Francisco Bay Area in the late 90's, easily as popular as 40k. I played both at the time and was never left wanting for a game!

For what it's worth I like that you are modernizing the look within the aesthetics of the game. It's a mixture of the more industrial 2nd Edition stuff and a bit of the smoothness (at least on the Chasseurs) of the 1st Edition stuff. Cybertronic always had a bit of a hectic aesthetic because it changed wildly from 1st to 2nd edition. It went from being smooth 80's sci-fi to a more industrial 90's sci-fi with a lot of grit and gasmasks. For my own part I like the 2nd Edition stuff a bit more (Shock Troopers are one of my favourites). And lets face it, even classics like the death egg could use a revamp. So as a secondary Cyber player I'm excited for these guys. I love that you managed to capture the feel of the Mk1 chasseurs while still making sure that they are augmented enough to look like they could take a bullet and keep moving.

So for me, it is pretty faithful so far and I appreciate that you are trying to update things a bit while still hewing close to the classic art. And if I'm not mistaken... Is that piece of concept art a Surveiler?



Because it looks like a dead ringer to me. And if so TAKE MY MONEY!

Edit - Damn, started writing before the list... So likely not a Surveiler (who has the baddest of asses). Still, when you guys get around to making one of 'em, it should be impressive going off of what I've seen.

 Warzone Resurrection wrote:
some clues what we might have here :

Chasseurs
Cuirassiers
Mirrormen
Enhanced Chasseur
Mark I "Machinator"
Mark III "Attila" - its definitely not this one

Looking closer, he seems to have a human head, so that would rule out Machinators and any type of Cuirassier. Doesn't look like a Mirrorman. So what, enhanced Chasseur?

 Ronin_eX wrote:
For what it's worth I like that you are modernizing the look within the aesthetics of the game. It's a mixture of the more industrial 2nd Edition stuff and a bit of the smoothness (at least on the Chasseurs) of the 1st Edition stuff. Cybertronic always had a bit of a hectic aesthetic because it changed wildly from 1st to 2nd edition. It went from being smooth 80's sci-fi to a more industrial 90's sci-fi with a lot of grit and gasmasks. For my own part I like the 2nd Edition stuff a bit more (Shock Troopers are one of my favourites). And lets face it, even classics like the death egg could use a revamp. So as a secondary Cyber player I'm excited for these guys. I love that you managed to capture the feel of the Mk1 chasseurs while still making sure that they are augmented enough to look like they could take a bullet and keep moving.

So for me, it is pretty faithful so far and I appreciate that you are trying to update things a bit while still hewing close to the classic art. And if I'm not mistaken... Is that piece of concept art a Surveiler?



Because it looks like a dead ringer to me. And if so TAKE MY MONEY!

my friend I wish to show you new concept! just pure awesomeness ..... but sadly we have to wait :(

I have waited this long for Warzone to come back (my Imperial/Cresentian friend is stoked by the by) I can wait a bit longer for new concepts. Can't wait for the Dark Eden corporate stuff. The Ulfwerner and Surveiler were two of my favourite units that never got a model (well, save for the really hard to find one that may have gotten to production from Excelsior). That and I am chomping at the bit to see renders of Venusian Rangers. Their old models didn't capture even an inkling of their awesomeness, I know you guys will have something great for them.

Some great stuff coming already, can't wait to see more.

Assuming the sculpts are decent and the price isn't extortionate, I'm so buying all the Legion sculpts! I fell in love with the concept and designs when I first saw them some 18 years ago, and was sad to see the gradual decline in sculpt quality (talking Legion here) as the second edition drew closer and closer, and then some new guy came on board and produced some of the worst artwork in the history of the game, with models based on them following suit. Glad to see quality concepts this time around.

So you're saying you're bringing out for 5 armies for now? Let me take a guess which - Capitol, Bauhaus, Cybertronic, Brotherhood, Legion?

Colour me interested

Bring back and slightly update the Brotherhood and I'll hand over my wallet.

I expect and hope for Imperials, they were in every starter.

 -DE- wrote:


So you're saying you're bringing out for 5 armies for now? Let me take a guess which - Capitol, Bauhaus, Cybertronic, Brotherhood, Legion?

I'd prefer to have them all, but if I had to choose the fist 5 it would be Capitol, Bauhaus, Cybertronic, Imperial and Dark Legion. At the beginning the Brotherhood could be bolt on units to the Corporate armies.

Either way, it sounded like they were talking about model releases with the 4-5 factions thing. Their description of the rulebook said it had everything you need.

So while I would love them to release it all at once as well, at least it doesn't sound like any faction will be unplayable as long as you have some random proxies (and 40k is loaded with plenty of WZ proxies ).

 Ronin_eX wrote:
Either way, it sounded like they were talking about model releases with the 4-5 factions thing. Their description of the rulebook said it had everything you need.

So while I would love them to release it all at once as well, at least it doesn't sound like any faction will be unplayable as long as you have some random proxies (and 40k is loaded with plenty of WZ proxies ).

Indeed, and I don't have to proxy a darned thing!

Mutant Chronicles is before I got into wargameing. I have heard of it and stumbled bits and bobs of it's legacy but don't know much about the setting.

I'm going to be following this thread as more concept art comes out. But sadly their is no Nostalgia to get me excited like the others here just yet.

 BDJV wrote:

 Ronin_eX wrote:
Either way, it sounded like they were talking about model releases with the 4-5 factions thing. Their description of the rulebook said it had everything you need.

So while I would love them to release it all at once as well, at least it doesn't sound like any faction will be unplayable as long as you have some random proxies (and 40k is loaded with plenty of WZ proxies ).

Indeed, and I don't have to proxy a darned thing!

Too true. Shouldn't be much of an issue for some of us.

Damn I need to start painting some of this stuff.

I don't think those make good Bauhaus stand-ins. Bauhaus had a strong WW1 Prussian vibe to it, not WW2 German.

I think they work pretty well. My point is that the minis better be good, there is a lot of good competition. I think the minis are what has always killed Warzone.

Take this. The image that hooked me when I picked up the first Mutant Chronicles RPG. I present the Venusian Ranger! Does he need updating, sure. But this is a great image.



However this is what we got!



or even worse this



Until this new company comes up with minis worth buying I have lots and lots of minis that I can use, so they better give me a reason to convert to what they are producing.

I mean seriously look at some of the garbage they put out

And if you haven't been following Dreamforge, they are not a giant company with tons of capitol, so if they can produce miniatures of their quality and at good prices too, than anyone can do it.

........yes, but you will get this:




ohh and you may join our facebook group to check some samples

http://www.facebook.com/groups/121888887983248/

 Warzone Resurrection wrote:
........yes, but you will get that:

Very nice. I assume these are Dark Legion (or whatever it's called) guys?

Oooh. Nice!

Those look great.

If you can make great lookin Venusian Rangers in multi-part plastics, my wallet will be your bitch...

I'm genuinely excited to see more!

~Eric

So what are we talking here? Plastic, metal or resin?

I do hope there will be a bit more variety in stances. They all seem to have legs in the same position. Other than that, yeah, great vanilla Legionnaires.

Looks like the magazines could do with a rework. The exposed shell stack all the way to the bottom just looks odd, as does the width of the window. I would expect to seem a more detailed profile of the round if it is that wide rather than just a simple cylinder, though to be honest it should just be narrower.

OMG, my wallet is contemplating filing for divorce after seeing that! Bring it on!

Oh, I like that.

Those are awesome, really capture the flavour of proper legionnaires. Semi-intelligent bio-tech zombies. Can't wait to see the Necromutant that will be leading them. They'd look at home in any 2000AD comic.

 Ronin_eX wrote:
Those are awesome, really capture the flavour of proper legionnaires. Semi-intelligent bio-tech zombies. Can't wait to see the Necromutant that will be leading them. They'd look at home in any 2000AD comic.

heeh you will get that tomorrow

I really like the updated art and sculpts. I will definitely buy some Legionnaires if the models look that good

 scipio.au wrote:

 Ronin_eX wrote:
With Target it was almost completely unrelated to the game (which was actually around as popular as 40k at the time of the crash). Had they not been expanding so much at the time, they may have even survived. But with two major game lines (one with limited plastic production), an RPG, some board games and an upcoming spin-off (oh how I long for Chronopia Empires). Well, yeah, they would have needed a new source of funding, stat.

Popular - yes. That popular - no way.

Um, are you aware that the only time GW ever lowered prices was so that their price drop could coincide with the release of WZ 2nd ed? Seems like GW thought they were pretty popular...

robertsjf wrote:

 scipio.au wrote:

 Ronin_eX wrote:
With Target it was almost completely unrelated to the game (which was actually around as popular as 40k at the time of the crash). Had they not been expanding so much at the time, they may have even survived. But with two major game lines (one with limited plastic production), an RPG, some board games and an upcoming spin-off (oh how I long for Chronopia Empires). Well, yeah, they would have needed a new source of funding, stat.

Popular - yes. That popular - no way.

Um, are you aware that the only time GW ever lowered prices was so that their price drop could coincide with the release of WZ 2nd ed? Seems like GW thought they were pretty popular...

I also heard a rumour that GW HQ broke out the champagne when Warzone collapsed.

I played the original Warzone and loved it. If the figures look good I'd consider playing this again as I still have my original rules. It will all depend on the figures for me.

@Warzone Resurrection. Don't tease me with part shots. My attention span is fickle.

 stormwell wrote:

robertsjf wrote:

 scipio.au wrote:

 Ronin_eX wrote:
With Target it was almost completely unrelated to the game (which was actually around as popular as 40k at the time of the crash). Had they not been expanding so much at the time, they may have even survived. But with two major game lines (one with limited plastic production), an RPG, some board games and an upcoming spin-off (oh how I long for Chronopia Empires). Well, yeah, they would have needed a new source of funding, stat.

Popular - yes. That popular - no way.

Um, are you aware that the only time GW ever lowered prices was so that their price drop could coincide with the release of WZ 2nd ed? Seems like GW thought they were pretty popular...

I also heard a rumour that GW HQ broke out the champagne when Warzone collapsed.

This is actually not a rumour , in fact, it was not champagne but JD

Everything about WZ coming back is good.

So at what model count will the game be considered full size? Around a platoon of soldiers, a few characters and some vehicles, robots or monsters? Or are we looking at a smaller skirmish game with 10 or less? Or are we shooting to out do GW in terms of models needed and go for 100+ per side as the full sized game?

agustin wrote:
So at what model count will the game be considered full size? Around a platoon of soldiers, a few characters and some vehicles, robots or monsters? Or are we looking at a smaller skirmish game with 10 or less? Or are we shooting to out do GW in terms of models needed and go for 100+ per side as the full sized game?

Previous editions were playable at anything between a squad and a hero and several squads, vehicles and multiple heroes/command models. A squad was usually 7 or more IIRC. It was pretty flexible, dunno how much of the previous system remains in the new rules.

DO WANT

I want to squeal like a little girl so many nice memories like my last Hatamoto rolling 3 straight 1s armor rolls aganist a Deathegg...

I'm really liking what's in store plus we WZ veterans have the advantage that if the initial release jumps our army we can still play with out vintage miniatures.

M.

 His Master's Voice wrote:

agustin wrote:
So at what model count will the game be considered full size? Around a platoon of soldiers, a few characters and some vehicles, robots or monsters? Or are we looking at a smaller skirmish game with 10 or less? Or are we shooting to out do GW in terms of models needed and go for 100+ per side as the full sized game?

Previous editions were playable at anything between a squad and a hero and several squads, vehicles and multiple heroes/command models. A squad was usually 7 or more IIRC. It was pretty flexible, dunno how much of the previous system remains in the new rules.

correct, no changes here, same good, old... and not expensive! but awesome tabletop game!

Will Imperials be in the first batch of factions?

 Kroothawk wrote:
Will Imperials be in the first batch of factions?

oh, i hope so, need me some trenchers! (with a black adder officer! )

 Warzone Resurrection wrote:

 His Master's Voice wrote:

agustin wrote:
So at what model count will the game be considered full size? Around a platoon of soldiers, a few characters and some vehicles, robots or monsters? Or are we looking at a smaller skirmish game with 10 or less? Or are we shooting to out do GW in terms of models needed and go for 100+ per side as the full sized game?

Previous editions were playable at anything between a squad and a hero and several squads, vehicles and multiple heroes/command models. A squad was usually 7 or more IIRC. It was pretty flexible, dunno how much of the previous system remains in the new rules.

correct, no changes here, same good, old... and not expensive! but awesome tabletop game!

Fantastic. I love lower model count games. I find if you want to play a really big game, it's easier to scale up and take more time than to risk balance issues when you take a high model count game and try to play a small version.

Following on facebook now.

And prior to UWZ, you could go with a troop selection that was much more elite, and risk just taking less models than the opponent.

Though I have to admit, the amount of cheese you could pile unto a single hero was borderline ridiculous. And the same combos would be used time and again.

I remember my Venusian Ranger Captain with his Deathlockdrum, Command Helment, Cybernetic Power Arm and Subdermal Armor Implants. That was a beatstick if I ever saw one.

Is there any hope of Chronopia coming out?
I love the background and would love to see what can be done with the concept art.

Going to be following this witha lot of interest. The background was cool, concepts were good and the rules were really well done. The dozen or so games I had before they went away were all good, non ambiguous and eay to play.

Those Undead Legionnaires look Kick-Ass! Hoping this works as I also have the old books for MC/WZ and I had Bauhuas/Cybertronic/brotherhood/Dark Soul forces of Algeroth

I liked 2nd ed Hussars more than 1st, but I did manage a squad of 1st ed Hussars to make into a grenadier force for my IG

 His Master's Voice wrote:
I do hope there will be a bit more variety in stances. They all seem to have legs in the same position. Other than that, yeah, great vanilla Legionnaires.

They are undead, don't expect too much from then in posing. The zombie stance is pretty basic, they are not going to be super dynamic. But they look very appropriate,

Please tell me bringing back Chronopia and the releaseing of the unreleased "Epic" scale Chronopia might be in the cards some day (soon!!!!)

Quick question? How are you doing the sculpts, traditional or CAD? Are you going for multi pose plastics or single pose resin and or metal? Just going from the pics it doesn't look like multi pose plastic, which I really think is the way to go.

Lol, I just sold most of my warzone stuff last year and NOW it's making a comeback! Best of luck to the game makers! (not sarcastic) It was a decent set of rules and art (minis were as previously mentioned across the spectrum from great to horrible) and it's good to see it coming back. Now.. if only VOR would do something similar before I sell it...

 warboss wrote:
Lol, I just sold most of my warzone stuff last year and NOW it's making a comeback! Best of luck to the game makers! (not sarcastic) It was a decent set of rules and art (minis were as previously mentioned across the spectrum from great to horrible) and it's good to see it coming back. Now.. if only VOR would do something similar before I sell it...

Maybe that's the key! If you sell all your VOR stuff, someone will revive it next year!

Warzone Resurrection wrote:........yes, but you will get this:

Now don't get me wrong. The renders look cool but it ain't Dark Legion Undead Legionnaires, it's the generic biotech zombies from any sci-fi fps-game from the last decade holding Kratach rifles. This is like putting a boltgan in a spartanesque (as in Halo-spartans) armoured dudes hands ( who got slightly rounded shoulder-pads) and call it a space marine. This is exploiting an IP to sell something that in all aspects seems to be something new and just leave some "tokens of gratitude" (like the Kratach rifles or the profile of some shoulder-armor) to please the crowd. I ain't buying it. To me there is little to distinguish this from say, sedition wars, which sports some awesome minis but it's far from MC/WZ. To me, Mutant Chronicles is what it is because the sometimes odd low-tech aesthetics (which there is a reason for, since all fancy pants technology got possessed by the darkness when it got released so humanity now have to rely on subpar tech to what they previously had, except for cybetronic which is the newest corporation and which everyone looks at with suspicion). Sure some things might have to go (like the cybertronic tank) and some things might need a minor tweek but not the extensive overhauls we've seen here this far. If there is a need to eradicate the original aesthetics and just keep some details, why not make an entirely new game, call it something else, make it heavily influenced by MC/WZ but don't use the names because this simply isn't that. If you don't trust in the aesthetics that comes with the IP why use the IP at all unless you just want to spare the costs of developing one of your own? I'll consider MC/WZ dead until I get a good reason to revalue my opinion, to me this is merely a Mutant Chronicles inspired game for the Xbox generation that got little to do with it's "muse".

This looks like an even better representation of the sinister semi intelligen bio-tech-zombies of the Dark Legion:

 Ronin_eX wrote:
And lets face it, even classics like the death egg could use a revamp.

Oh god. You just reminded me that I've got one of those. I rebased it on 2x 50mm bases (or 40mm?) and replaced the weapon arms. Or one of them. Never finished the project, no idea where it is.. but it'll be in one of my old bits boxes...

Cmon z3r0, you expected to see all models same like in 90s? That already fallen once. It`s good guys have a fresh approach. I thing that leggionare you posted looks dumb silly and aged. Lets see what will come next as those are just leggionares and preety great for me also. I love WZ, bring it on. I have my eyes on it.

 His Master's Voice wrote:

agustin wrote:
So at what model count will the game be considered full size? Around a platoon of soldiers, a few characters and some vehicles, robots or monsters? Or are we looking at a smaller skirmish game with 10 or less? Or are we shooting to out do GW in terms of models needed and go for 100+ per side as the full sized game?

Previous editions were playable at anything between a squad and a hero and several squads, vehicles and multiple heroes/command models. A squad was usually 7 or more IIRC. It was pretty flexible, dunno how much of the previous system remains in the new rules.

Yeah, it was pretty flexible. We tended to play 1st edition with 2-4 squads and a couple of heroes or special models.

 Warzone Resurrection wrote:
My friend, our 1st rule in this project is "Balance of forget about it!"
Max I can say is "going between " but we are making balanced/strategy/tactical game, therefore it must containssssssssssss ...... lest say "many aspects" of Strategy. I can assure you, your brain will hurt due to "extreme usage of your grey cells" after game! ... it will be a revolution (20+ years in tabletop gaming and I have not seen anything like this before) ...unlimited number of strategies/tactical movements !... man definitely not boring 3+,3+ 3+ .....

This game is made by Strategist for Strategist! And imho, this is only one way to stay on the market for many many years!
OK I must stop here

I wanna start off by saying that I'm very excited about this. I still own every single Mutant Chronicle, and Warzone, model, and publication.

I hope you're not making the game too brain hurty. There are a couple games out there that require me to take breaks in between games. I don't want to feel "burned out" after I play a game of Warzone.

 scipio.au wrote:

 His Master's Voice wrote:

agustin wrote:
So at what model count will the game be considered full size? Around a platoon of soldiers, a few characters and some vehicles, robots or monsters? Or are we looking at a smaller skirmish game with 10 or less? Or are we shooting to out do GW in terms of models needed and go for 100+ per side as the full sized game?

Previous editions were playable at anything between a squad and a hero and several squads, vehicles and multiple heroes/command models. A squad was usually 7 or more IIRC. It was pretty flexible, dunno how much of the previous system remains in the new rules.

Yeah, it was pretty flexible. We tended to play 1st edition with 2-4 squads and a couple of heroes or special models.

I hope it will remain like WZ 1st edition. Skirmish - tactical. I loved that!


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Steel Rabbit wrote:


I wanna start off by saying that I'm very excited about this. I still own every single Mutant Chroncile, and Warzone model, and publication.

I hope you're not making the game too brain hurty. There are a couple games out there that require me to take breaks in between games. I don't want to feel "burned out" after I play a game of Warzone.

Wat in the world is better than feel exhausted, tierd and with CUP in a hand after winning tournament?
What i really want them to avoid is WH40k-like tournament. Everyting forward and lets see what happend. Old WZ style mixed with Warmachine. That will be great

Two things make these news great for me:

1) Nostalgia: I have been a fan of the WZ and Chronopia universes while the games were still allive and beating. Alas, I never had the chance to properly explore them before the collapse of the Target Games. And now this release gives me the opportunity to. Bauhaus and Imperials, here I come!

2) Timing: The recent price changes of GW was the final straw for me. I got priced out, not because I cannot afford their games any longer, but because I hate being exploited like that and being treated like an idiot. I have sold all the armies of 40k that I own (bar Space Marines) and I plan to re-invest these money to companies with fresher ideas and a fairer business ethos.

To sum up; The concepts I have seen so far are great and I am going to vote a big "YES" for this game with my wallet.

P.S.: I know that it is out of topic, but do you have any plans on re-releasing Chronopia too? This was for me the best Fantasy game setting ever! Please, do!

If this keeps as good as within the last hours I am all in.
Warzon 1st edition is still one of my favourite rulesets. I even reused (in differnet ways) some of the design elements (alternate unit activation etc) in my Victory Decision game.

Just for old times sake...


I had a big Mishima and Capitol force,
see: http://adpublishing.de/html/warzone.html
the Capitol army is now sold and most of Mishima is also gone...

Time for new WZ forces!!!

Keep us informed!

GrandLegion wrote:
Cmon z3r0, you expected to see all models same like in 90s? That already fallen once. It`s good guys have a fresh approach. I thing that leggionare you posted looks dumb silly and aged. Lets see what will come next as those are just leggionares and preety great for me also. I love WZ, bring it on. I have my eyes on it.

Well, legionnaires should look rather dumb and I do believe the original legionnaires look much more sinister in a sluggish kind of way. And yes I expect the minis, for the most part, to look like the designs made back in the 90's the same way I expect a Space Marine to look like a Space Marine (which date back to the 80's). I'm not saying the concepts and renders we've seen this far is ugly or of bad, it's just not very MC. Sure the razide looks top A this far but I expect a more MC feel about the legionnaires and cybetronic-minis. To take away what's unique about MC and place yourself in the middle of the road concerning aesthetics does not sound like a good business plan in today's climate where mediocre (while still cool) miniatures are released on a regular basis from garage-companies to bigger fishes. Sure the old MC aesthetics might have edges that some people will bump into but that is what makes it MC.

And I for one still believe this looks awesome:

 c0un7_z3r0 wrote:

The renders look cool but it ain't Dark Legion Undead Legionnaires, it's the generic biotech zombies from any sci-fi fps-game from the last decade holding Kratach rifles.

Eh, these look exactly like vanilla Legionnaires right out of conversion chambers and match a lot of the artwork produced for both Warzone and Doomtrooper. I don't see how the dead Viking style of Bonner legionnaires could make the transition to modern design without looking ridonkulus.

As I said, I feel they have samey poses, but the overall aesthetic is very much in line with what I expected.

 c0un7_z3r0 wrote:
And yes I expect the minis, for the most part, to look like the designs made back in the 90's the same way I expect a Space Marine to look like a Space Marine (which date back to the 80's).

Just so we have some context here this is how SM's used to look like back in RT era

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_wT_dsoa_R8s/TSuJd1F2w4I/AAAAAAAAAhY/362tScrfS3Y/s1600/rainbow+warriors.png

and this is how they look right now

http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20121011234134/warhammer40k/images/e/e2/Ultramarines_Artificer_Armour.jpg

I dare say that's more of a design update than what we're seeing here, at least for the Legionnaires that are literally a funny helmet away from Bonner and Horley's work.

@His Master's Voice - I have an RT era SM army (with the original RT miniatures) so yes I do know how they used to look like and yes it have changes slightly (even though the beaky has remained largely the same). However, the design of the basic space marine have not changed much since the 90's and haven't ever been as drastically reinvented as the Cybertronic concepts we've seen this far reinvents the cybertronic aesthetics.

Well, I guess you could argue that about whatever the big mechanical guy is, and I'd be inclined to agree with you that he looks more DL than Cybertronic right now, but you kinda started with the Legionnaires for whatever reason...

c0un7_z3r0 do you want another company to go bankrupt due to Warzone curse! ??
If not,please stop trolling, like what you have here, as P Bonner ( his vision and his pre stone style) should not be a gauge to "how they should look like" blahblahblah.

For me, they just have my wallet with all content! And now GW has something to fear, again!
Bring it back now! Kickstarter or anything ,you have my money and please shake this market!.

@god.ra - I'm not doing this because I want to make a fight, I do this because I'm passionate about this game! And if this will end up being a game which is a pale reminder of what once were (or could have been) I don't really care if this will be the permanent incarnation of MC or not.

But I believe I've made my point, and I will sit back and watch what will come and won't say anything until there is anything substantial to say anything about. I will say this, the Razide looks Awesome this far, and the Legionnaires got great potential!

 c0un7_z3r0 wrote:
@His Master's Voice - I have an RT era SM army (with the original RT miniatures) so yes I do know how they used to look like and yes it have changes slightly (even though the beaky has remained largely the same). However, the design of the basic space marine have not changed much since the 90's and haven't ever been as drastically reinvented as the Cybertronic concepts we've seen this far reinvents the cybertronic aesthetics.

ekhem... slightly changes...
First dreadnought - http://www.dakkadakka.com/gallery/78365-.html
First terminator - http://www.dakkadakka.com/gallery/271554-.html?m=2

No man seriuos, i think some changes and own view must be added. Simple clone of 90`s WZ just wont sell.
BTW, some art is great, Bonner is great.



Automatically Appended Next Post:
And I also hope that GW will lose another 10% of market. They are just making fun of their own fans.

@Grand Legion - I was talking about the basic trooper which to me is what makes the army. And I got two RT era Dreadnoughts so yeah I know how they look like..

I don't think silly proportions in either sculpting or equipment size is going to work as well today as it did in the 90s. If everyone wanted the miniatures as they were back then, Prince Augst would be swamped with orders and the game would be back in distribution.

Like it or not, this is going to involve a re-imaging for 2013 rather than just rereleasing of models from 15+ years ago.

I unfortunately sold off my Mishima army, as they were terribad in the first edition, and second edition was as bad as D&D 4.0.

Hope it works out. I'd really like to see something come of it.

Any word on revamping the board games, along with the tabletop?

This is all very interesting, but I hope this time around the plastic miniatures for the game are a kind of plastic that you can glue together with ordinary plastic glue or zap-a-gap. The old ones would only go together with epoxy glue, and that was so messy that I ended up throwing them away. And I hope the rules aren't the old mechanic where you rolled a D20 for each attack separately, because that made for a super slow game. However, from what I've seen so far, it is definitely something I'm going to be following.

I just want to be clear on this, I believe the old minis were mostly horrible even when they were produced! Like Yojimbo who looked like some bizarre bunny armed with a katana and a megaphone hehehe... His art kicked ass though!

 warpcrafter wrote:
And I hope the rules aren't the old mechanic where you rolled a D20 for each attack separately, because that made for a super slow game. However, from what I've seen so far, it is definitely something I'm going to be following.

Dunno how they're going to fix that. It could bog down the game, but it was also kinda integral to how it played out. Guess you can bulk roll D20...

 His Master's Voice wrote:

 warpcrafter wrote:
And I hope the rules aren't the old mechanic where you rolled a D20 for each attack separately, because that made for a super slow game. However, from what I've seen so far, it is definitely something I'm going to be following.

Dunno how they're going to fix that. It could bog down the game, but it was also kinda integral to how it played out. Guess you can bulk roll D20...

Sure you can, but the rules were not really set up for bulk rolling as each mini had to take its actions separately. Now what usually happened is most of the basic troopers in the same squad did the same actions so we would roll those all at once.

warpcrafter wrote:This is all very interesting, but I hope this time around the plastic miniatures for the game are a kind of plastic that you can glue together with ordinary plastic glue or zap-a-gap. The old ones would only go together with epoxy glue, and that was so messy that I ended up throwing them away.

Mine went together just fine with ambroid pro-weld or tamiya plastic cement. Superglue would also work fine if you took the time to cross hatch the connection points.

Looking through my old books, those legionnaires look to be right out of Simon Bisley's stuff. Less rag-tag armour (hell, less armour in general), more gas-masks (of the metal rebreather variety) and bald heads (and TUBES!). Nice to see one of the other iconic artists get represented a bit (Biz's Crenshaw pic was always my favourite piece of Warzone art). I think that's probably why I liked them so much, the echo'd a version of the legionnaire we only tended to see in art.

And honestly, the game is supposed to be small skirmish level, so the individual model activation and D20 rolls were just fine. Being able to activate a model and make him do different things than the rest of the squad was part of the fun of things. It was clunky at large levels, but then, the game was meant for a specific size. Infinity works great for 10-16 minis and caps out at 20. Trying to run a 30-40 model game with it is going to break the system over its knee. Warzone is the same way, but with platoon-level being its ideal range. So I personally hope individual model activation is kept.

Very interested to see how this develops. I can't say I'm excited, because I've learned to lower my expecations to avoid disapointment, but I have a soft spot when it comes to Warzone as it was the 2nd wargame I got involved with after 40k 2nd ed. Still got all the old minis too, so it might be easy to get into the game once the rules are released.

Really should try to keep the bases standard size though. It's going to hurt sales if they come on different sized bases than GW. I know they are trying to make their own game, but that is going to keep people away.

Option nr1

Why would it keep people away?

 Sidstyler wrote:
Why would it keep people away?

Non standard size means that they can not use the minis in other games. Warzone has a track record of bombing, so you have to make it as easy as possible for people to justify spending money, non standard base sizes would be a unnecessary hurdle.

 Andrew1975 wrote:
Really should try to keep the bases standard size though. It's going to hurt sales if they come on different sized bases than GW. I know they are trying to make their own game, but that is going to keep people away.

TBH increasingly I've seen new games and minis come out on non-GW style bases.

is that a necromutant? I like it eitherway

I'm really looking forward to this being releases

 Sidstyler wrote:
Why would it keep people away?

Well, I can potentially see it being a minor annoyance for people with existing Warzone collections (even if it is fully legal by the rules, some can be really anal retentive about that kind of thing). But honestly, I actually kind of like Warmachines bevelled bases, so choosing something that isn't like GW's 28mm base isn't a huge deal for me. But I guess we'll wait and see.

And that necromutant looks fantastic.

Well, that Centurion/Necromutant should make c0un7_z3r0 happy. He looks like he was ripped out of a Bonner illustration.

 Andrew1975 wrote:
Really should try to keep the bases standard size though. It's going to hurt sales if they come on different sized bases than GW. I know they are trying to make their own game, but that is going to keep people away.

*cough* Privateer Press seems to be doing just fine using 30mm bases. *cough*

If someone really wants to buy new Warzone figs for 40k they will have no problem attaching them to the so-cheap-they're-almost-free 25mm plastic round bases available everywhere.

 judgedoug wrote:
If someone really wants to buy new Warzone figs for 40k they will have no problem attaching them to the so-cheap-they're-almost-free 25mm plastic round bases available everywhere.

Agreed. Its not like 25mm round bases are rare

Go with what you want!

That's fine. But I think we all know lots of people that will poo poo it just because it is on a different base size. Is it really a problem for those that are interested...no not really. But lets not act like most gamers don't like to complain about every little issue. Like I said it's another hurdle on a game that already has a history of failure, I would just try to eliminate as many of those hurdles as I could and make it as friendly as possible to get into. Dreamforge sold lots of stormtroopers because they are great mini, hell there is not even a rule set yet. Why do you think most people bought them, because they know that they can use them as some pretty awesome looking guard models, even if the game ends up bombing.

Did you miss the part where they said that there would be rules for using 25mm bases even though 30mm bases were preferred?

P.S. Everyone I know who bought the Dreamforge storm troopers did it for role playing game figures.

Hello,
Bring back the big tanks!

Regards,
Carl

 solkan wrote:
Did you miss the part where they said that there would be rules for using 25mm bases even though 30mm bases were preferred?

P.S. Everyone I know who bought the Dreamforge storm troopers did it for role playing game figures.

No I didn't miss that. But what if people want to use their new 30mm based warzone minis for 40k! This is my point. I've got a crap load of bases so to me it doesn't matter, but it will to other people.

 Warzone Resurrection wrote:


Option nr1

I like this, but it looks like if that render was made into a miniature as is, the detail on the face would be super shallow. The armour and equipment has really deep recessess, but the face looks like it's really shallow. Like it'd be hard to paint and pick out all the teeth properly.

 Andrew1975 wrote:

 solkan wrote:
Did you miss the part where they said that there would be rules for using 25mm bases even though 30mm bases were preferred?

P.S. Everyone I know who bought the Dreamforge storm troopers did it for role playing game figures.

No I didn't miss that. But what if people want to use their new 30mm based warzone minis for 40k! This is my point. I've got a crap load of bases so to me it doesn't matter, but it will to other people.

Right, because every game should be backwards-compatible with 40k... Get over yourself.

 Andrew1975 wrote:

 solkan wrote:
Did you miss the part where they said that there would be rules for using 25mm bases even though 30mm bases were preferred?

P.S. Everyone I know who bought the Dreamforge storm troopers did it for role playing game figures.

No I didn't miss that. But what if people want to use their new 30mm based warzone minis for 40k! This is my point. I've got a crap load of bases so to me it doesn't matter, but it will to other people.

Well their fault for being too lazy

Did Plastic Soldier Company flunk because it originally never came with any Flames of War bases? (or ANY bases to be exact)

Malifaux seems to be doing fine without providing 40k compatible bases as well.

It's a pretty weird complaint that the miniatures won't be compatible with some other company's rules.

I wasn't gaming back when orignal Warzone was out, as I was only around 8 or 9, but I remember my flgs having some of the miniatures in the discount bins when I was 13/14. Some of them were utterly awesome. Can't wait for this, based on that!

 -DE- wrote:

 Andrew1975 wrote:

 solkan wrote:
Did you miss the part where they said that there would be rules for using 25mm bases even though 30mm bases were preferred?

P.S. Everyone I know who bought the Dreamforge storm troopers did it for role playing game figures.

No I didn't miss that. But what if people want to use their new 30mm based warzone minis for 40k! This is my point. I've got a crap load of bases so to me it doesn't matter, but it will to other people.

Right, because every game should be backwards-compatible with 40k... Get over yourself.

Yeah, it probably should! It makes common sense. You are trying to get people to buy miniatures for a game that has failed multiple times, it would be wise to make the minis as accessible as possible. If that strategy is so foreign to you, maybe you aught to do some research. It's working pretty well to launch quite a few companies. It only makes sense. Companies do not make much money selling rules. Selling miniatures is where the money is, so a wise decision would be to make them accessible for what is the most popular game at the time....40K. That way you can sell to a larger audience and crossover is more likely.

Again, not an issue for me, but I can guarantee you that people will use it as a reason not to buy warzone miniatures. There will be other reasons too, I'm sure, but the idea is to eliminate as many reasons not to buy as possible. It's just marketing, it's not rocket science. Are there going to be companies that succeed without using GW size bases.....sure there are, its only one part of the formula.

Get over myself? Are you serious? This is not about me, its about what would be the best strategy to launch a new miniatures line, much less one that has a history of failing in multiple incarnations.

Did Plastic Soldier Company flunk because it originally never came with any Flames of War bases? (or ANY bases to be exact)

People do a lot of stupid stuff! Do they make bases now? Do they pretty much include them with all purchases now? Did it make the game easier and more accessible? Do the bases make the game more aesthetically pleasing?

With those thoughts in mind, did they fail because they did not include bases, NO. Do they include bases now? Yes. Does it make the game easier to get into, hence more accessible. Undoubtedly. Are they switching to plastic more and more to increase accessibility?Sure are. Was it probably a mistake to not include bases in the beginning? Probably.

Over the years gaming has switched very much from the DIY hobby days and are more and more turning into mass market projects and building audiences outside of the HARD CORE gamers. I still DIY most everything, but that's me. DIY is very intimidating for people new to the hobby and creates a barrier to entry, as small as that barrier may appear to you and me it is still a barrier.

Tell that to all the successful manufacturers that choose to sell their miniatures with 30mm round bases. I don't see anybody lamenting they can't use their Warmachine collection to proxy a 40k army. If somebody wants to use a model by a company that doesn't use 40k bases, they plop it onto a spare base and voila.

Not every company has to suck off Games Workshop.

You're making a mountain out of a molehill.

im itrestid in this lets see whats happens

http://shop.princeaugust.ie/warzone-mutant-chronicles-wargame/

 -DE- wrote:
Tell that to all the successful manufacturers that choose to sell their miniatures with 30mm round bases. I don't see anybody lamenting they can't use their Warmachine collection to proxy a 40k army. If somebody wants to use a model by a company that doesn't use 40k bases, they plop it onto a spare base and voila.

Not every company has to suck off Games Workshop.

You're making a mountain out of a molehill.

Once again agreed. "Minimizing the risk of failing", well 30mm bases is probably the LEAST of my concerns!

Things that are much more important

-Quality of Miniatures
-Price
-Size (dont want another Dystopian Legions now do we )

Heck I dont even care if its metal or plastic. I'd just like to see some new miniatures.

 -DE- wrote:
Tell that to all the successful manufacturers that choose to sell their miniatures with 30mm round bases. I don't see anybody lamenting they can't use their Warmachine collection to proxy a 40k army. If somebody wants to use a model by a company that doesn't use 40k bases, they plop it onto a spare base and voila.

Not every company has to suck off Games Workshop.

You're making a mountain out of a molehill.

If I can make a mountain out of a molehill, you know what that means, There is a mole hill! Good marketing gets rid of mole hills.

I'm actually not making anything out of anything. I'm simply stating marketing facts.The bases will be a barrier for some people. That's a fact, maybe not to you or me, but they will be to some people. Good marketing makes things more accessible to the widest audience.

Flames of war is actually a pretty good study. I know plenty of people that didn't get into it because it was too fiddly. Little metal guys, half of them miscast or look that way because casting a rifle at that scale in metal is pretty much an autofail, and then you have to make your own bases. Too much work! The new plastics with bases seam to be selling pretty well though. Why, because it's easy and familiar and the plastic infantry are by far much better quality than the metal.

Infinity and warmahordes are really nothing like 40K. Warzone however is pretty close, it's space guys in armor with guns, where infinity is more like anime and warmahordes is well warmahordes. To be successful in any endevour you have to look at your competition, see what they do well and see what they do poorly, and try to exploit that as much as you can.

I suggest you take some marketing classes, before you enlighten me with more of your "wisdom" such as "suck of Games Workshop" its really short sighted and shows a lack of any real knowledge of what works in the real world.

 Andrew1975 wrote:


If I can make a mountain out of a molehill, you know what that means, There is a mole hill! Good marketing gets rid of mole hills.

I'm actually not making anything out of anything. I'm simply stating marketing facts.The bases will be a barrier for some people. That's a fact, maybe not to you or me, but they will be to some people. Good marketing makes things more accessible to the widest audience.

Infinity and warmahordes are really nothing like 40K. Warzone however is pretty close, it's space guys in armor with guns, where infinity is more like anime and warmahordes is well warmahordes. To be successful in any endevour you have to look at your competition, see what they do well and see what they do poorly, and try to exploit that as much as you can.

I suggest you take some marketing classes, before you enlighten me with more of your "wisdom" such as "suck of Games Workshop" its really short sighted and shows a lack of any real knowledge of what works in the real world.

So by your logic.....Nearly all the Infantry should come with Flamethrowers, "Nuclear Guns", "Guns with a glowy bit on top", "Pistols with glowy bit on top", a sword with cords, an ax with cords, a giant fist, a gun with an extra gun taped on thats either a flamethrower, a "nuclear gun", or a "gun with a glowy bit on top", etc etc

 kenshin620 wrote:

 Andrew1975 wrote:


If I can make a mountain out of a molehill, you know what that means, There is a mole hill! Good marketing gets rid of mole hills.

I'm actually not making anything out of anything. I'm simply stating marketing facts.The bases will be a barrier for some people. That's a fact, maybe not to you or me, but they will be to some people. Good marketing makes things more accessible to the widest audience.

Infinity and warmahordes are really nothing like 40K. Warzone however is pretty close, it's space guys in armor with guns, where infinity is more like anime and warmahordes is well warmahordes. To be successful in any endevour you have to look at your competition, see what they do well and see what they do poorly, and try to exploit that as much as you can.

I suggest you take some marketing classes, before you enlighten me with more of your "wisdom" such as "suck of Games Workshop" its really short sighted and shows a lack of any real knowledge of what works in the real world.

So by your logic.....Nearly all the Infantry should come with Flamethrowers, "Nuclear Guns", "Guns with a glowy bit on top", "Pistols with glowy bit on top", a sword with cords, an ax with cords, a giant fist, a gun with an extra gun taped on thats either a flamethrower, a "nuclear gun", or a "gun with a glowy bit on top", etc etc

Actually it would be smart seeing as most of those things were options in the old warzone! Flamethrowers, chainswords, gahenna pukers and different pistols were all there. So yeah probably a good idea.

Now the real question is why did they have all those weapons options that were pretty similar to 40k? Maybe because that was the competition and weapons options really seamed to work for people. So if it works for my competition it's probably a good idea to try to incorporate it into what I'm doing.

And no GW did not invent weapons options. In fact GW did not invent much at all. You want to know what they did? For the most part they incorporated (read as stole) everything that worked for other people and brought it to market in a package that was more accessible than most anything else at the time. That's it. Which is also why they are so protective of what they have now.

What reason do you have that would say it's a bad idea to include weapon options? You know, besides just being argumentative.

 Andrew1975 wrote:

 -DE- wrote:
Tell that to all the successful manufacturers that choose to sell their miniatures with 30mm round bases. I don't see anybody lamenting they can't use their Warmachine collection to proxy a 40k army. If somebody wants to use a model by a company that doesn't use 40k bases, they plop it onto a spare base and voila.

Not every company has to suck off Games Workshop.

You're making a mountain out of a molehill.

If I can make a mountain out of a molehill, you know what that means, There is a mole hill! Good marketing gets rid of mole hills.

I'm actually not making anything out of anything. I'm simply stating marketing facts.The bases will be a barrier for some people. That's a fact, maybe not to you or me, but they will be to some people. Good marketing makes things more accessible to the widest audience.

Flames of war is actually a pretty good study. I know plenty of people that didn't get into it because it was too fiddly. Little metal guys, half of them miscast or look that way because casting a rifle at that scale in metal is pretty much an autofail, and then you have to make your own bases. Too much work! The new plastics with bases seam to be selling pretty well though. Why, because it's easy and familiar and the plastic infantry are by far much better quality than the metal.

Infinity and warmahordes are really nothing like 40K. Warzone however is pretty close, it's space guys in armor with guns, where infinity is more like anime and warmahordes is well warmahordes. To be successful in any endevour you have to look at your competition, see what they do well and see what they do poorly, and try to exploit that as much as you can.

I suggest you take some marketing classes, before you enlighten me with more of your "wisdom" such as "suck of Games Workshop" its really short sighted and shows a lack of any real knowledge of what works in the real world.

When has Battlefront not included bases for it's Flames of War figures? I think I got plastic bases in my old generic 15mm infantry boxes before the Flames of War branding back in like 2002...

Interestingly, what you advocate is kind of the opposite of reality. When a company wants to make a generic version of a popular brand, they'll emulate it pretty carefully, down to colors and product appearance, and the public perceives this as 'generics' (think grocery-store brand or Wal-Mart generic brand) with the associated perception that it's a lot cheaper but probably isn't as good. When a company attempts to establish it's own branding _without positioning themselves as a generic substitute_, then usage of similar designs is viewed by investors as weakness and by consumers as just a 'rip off'.

 judgedoug wrote:
When a company attempts to establish it's own branding _without positioning themselves as a generic substitute_, then usage of similar designs is viewed by investors as weakness and by consumers as just a 'rip off'.

Well the be fair many gamers I show Warzone to say "what is that, a ripoff of warhammer?"

Basically, will Warzone's marketing be:

"hey look at our not-Chaos and our not-Sisters of Battle, aren't they groovy? i mean we have our own setting and all, but check it out, they're the same scale and have 25mm circle bases so you can use them for anything!!"

or

"Warzone is here to rape your dog and kick your mother with how awesomely badass explosion of SWEET this fether is. Uberawesome designs and smooth-ass rules means that this game is the be-all-and-end-all of wargaming. Once you roll your first d20 you'll be throwing your old pansy ass space elves into the dumpster and getting tattooes of Razides across your face. Our figures are the fething best in the world and they're so goddamn awesome that we had to use 30mm bases because 25mm just couldn't contain them!!"

 judgedoug wrote:
Basically, will Warzone's marketing be:

"hey look at our not-Chaos and our not-Sisters of Battle, aren't they groovy? i mean we have our own setting and all, but check it out, they're the same scale and have 25mm circle bases so you can use them for anything!!"

or

"Warzone is here to rape your dog and kick your mother with how awesomely badass explosion of SWEET this fether is. Uberawesome designs and smooth-ass rules means that this game is the be-all-and-end-all of wargaming. Once you roll your first d20 you'll be throwing your old pansy ass space elves into the dumpster and getting tattooes of Razides across your face. Our figures are the fething best in the world and they're so goddamn awesome that we had to use 30mm bases because 25mm just couldn't contain them!!"

Hey now lets not copy Privateer Press here!

 kenshin620 wrote:

 judgedoug wrote:
Basically, will Warzone's marketing be:

"hey look at our not-Chaos and our not-Sisters of Battle, aren't they groovy? i mean we have our own setting and all, but check it out, they're the same scale and have 25mm circle bases so you can use them for anything!!"

or

"Warzone is here to rape your dog and kick your mother with how awesomely badass explosion of SWEET this fether is. Uberawesome designs and smooth-ass rules means that this game is the be-all-and-end-all of wargaming. Once you roll your first d20 you'll be throwing your old pansy ass space elves into the dumpster and getting tattooes of Razides across your face. Our figures are the fething best in the world and they're so goddamn awesome that we had to use 30mm bases because 25mm just couldn't contain them!!"

Hey now lets not copy Privateer Press here!

You're right, Warzone should use 32.5mm bases, with a spoiler and flame decals, and 4th dimensional angles, made out of titanium, pre-primed in whatever color you think of really hard of when you hold them. Also they move around the table at your command.

 judgedoug wrote:

You're right, Warzone should use 32.5mm bases, with a spoiler and flame decals, and 4th dimensional angles, made out of titanium, pre-primed in whatever color you think of really hard of when you hold them. Also they move around the table at your command.

Ahh well my comment was aimed at the "SUPER AWESOME DESCRIPTION OF BADASSNESS" that PP is famed for with their page 5

But ok

 Warzone Resurrection wrote:


Option nr1

New Necromutant aka Sgt! NICE!~

 kenshin620 wrote:

 judgedoug wrote:

You're right, Warzone should use 32.5mm bases, with a spoiler and flame decals, and 4th dimensional angles, made out of titanium, pre-primed in whatever color you think of really hard of when you hold them. Also they move around the table at your command.

Ahh well my comment was aimed at the "SUPER AWESOME DESCRIPTION OF BADASSNESS" that PP is famed for with their page 5

But ok

It's all about the base size, baby...

Warzone's so goddamn awesome that they're 7.5 mm more awesome than 40k and 2.5 mm better than PP... 32.5mm bases is the new badass standard!
All the 40k goons will start playing Warzone because of base size envy.
Perfect marketing plan!

Interestingly, what you advocate is kind of the opposite of reality. When a company wants to make a generic version of a popular brand, they'll emulate it pretty carefully, down to colors and product appearance, and the public perceives this as 'generics' (think grocery-store brand or Wal-Mart generic brand) with the associated perception that it's a lot cheaper but probably isn't as good. When a company attempts to establish it's own branding _without positioning themselves as a generic substitute_, then usage of similar designs is viewed by investors as weakness and by consumers as just a 'rip off'.

There is generic copying of a product and then there is using what is effective to launch your own brand. And most times even the borrowing of ideas is just to get a foot in the door. Most companies do start off this way, from automobile manufacturing to game design. They emulate another product with just their own twist, once/if they are succesfull enough to build a name then they may go off the reservation and start having their own ideas.

Lamborghini started by making tractors that were pretty much copies of surplus US military hardware left behind after the war. They were quality and they made a lot of money and name recognition. They then went to produce touring cars, they copied a lot from the competition, using alot of the same technology and designers, they just always made their products different enough that you knew it was a Lambo. Such things as nicer seats, better brakes or sturdier transmission.

When they had the money they went into super cars. Now other people rip of Lambo. It's how products are brought to market. You can be similar without being generic.

 kenshin620 wrote:
Well the be fair many gamers I show Warzone to say "what is that, a ripoff of warhammer?"

Well, it is. I love the setting and all, but just as 40k is derivative of many things, so is Warzone derivative of 40k on a pretty big scale, especially on the fluff side - Durand, unification, his sacrifice, the Apostoles, heresy and so on. There was even a Durand Algeroth show down IIRC.

In other news, the new preview is awesome. I already said that, but we're getting drowned in discussions about base marketing so there...

 His Master's Voice wrote:
Well, that Centurion/Necromutant should make c0un7_z3r0 happy. He looks like he was ripped out of a Bonner illustration.

How nice of you to mention me so I won't be forgotten!

Base sizes? Really? That is what there is going to be a heated debate about? The most easily swapped part of a miniature, the part that you can buy dozens of spares of from countless manufacturers? This is worth having an argument over? Not even scale (which sounds to be 100% compatible), bases.

Look, if people are too picky to swap out bases, then they were likely buying GW already because a model being "official" or not was an important piece of the puzzle to them. Almost any other human being would just do a quick base swap and be done with it.

I can't think of a single, bloody game, that failed because it didn't use GW's standard slotta base. Warmachine/Hordes is doing fine, Mantic (the name in GW generics) is doing fine (and way harder to re-base), and Malifaux is purportedly doing fine. You may also note that Warzone crashed twice before (not that either time was because of the game itself, but rather the company) and previously used the standard 40k base size. Your argument for using the GW base is entirely anecdotal and has no basis in reality that I can see. I'm just amazed because it seems like an odd (mole)hill to die on.

I doubt the game will crash or succeed depending on the base size. I never seemed to be a concern at any point in the base, after all.

It was a really ridiculous point and people called Andrew1975 on it and now he's doubled down and decided to fight over a nonsensical issue.

I think there's loads of room in the market for Warzone to make a lasting return. So far the concept art, renders and the partially complete torso sculpt all look quite promising. As does the scope and model count of the game.

I'm going to keep enjoying the daily updates and will be interested in seeing exactly what is revealed in ten days time.

 judgedoug wrote:


You're right, Warzone should use 32.5mm bases, with a spoiler and flame decals, and 4th dimensional angles, made out of titanium, pre-primed in whatever color you think of really hard of when you hold them. Also they move around the table at your command.

Next week on "PIMP MY BASE"

I can honestly say that if the Dark Legion stuff continues looking this good, they may have a new convert. I always love the art for DL, but the minis were crap. These new ones rock (I love that Razide) and actually capture the feel of a multi-dimensional aggressor that recycles your dead in to its new soldiers. Their big beasties are sure to impress (come on non-gak Mercurian Masculator).

Look I'm not saying that they are doomed if they use different sized bases. I'm just saying that it probably behooves them to keep them standard. It's all going to come down to the miniatures and the sculpts, I'm not even that concerned about the rules. You can always sell miniatures without rules, and the warzone rules were pretty good, with some exceptions. The last few times warzone failed has been because of bad (inconsistent may be a better word, as some of their minis were pretty good) miniatures, if you make good miniatures there are people that are going to buy them and use them for whatever they want. I really think that is going to have to be their strength. The basing issue is small but it will still be an issue for some people, especially people relatively new to the hobby, have 40k armies and want to be able to use their miniatures in both games. If you make people choose, especially newbies, they are going to choose what is popular, easy and guaranteed.

I guess the case in point would be, how many of those plastic bags of warzone miniatures would prince august have sold if they were on a different base? The answer is not nearly as many. Its a trivial thing, but many people don't want to be hassled to change bases, but they are going to want an insurance policy on a game that has repeatedly failed, that insurance policy is standard bases.

These newer people are the people that spend the most money quickly. They are a key demographic for getting a return on capitol.

Listen, don't listen. Doesn't matter. I have tons sci fi minis anyway, including old warzone minis, so I don't really need anything new. I won't be buying any of these unless the sculpts are so good that I get excited about them. At that point for me base size wont matter.

We all know that if the bases are different sizes, there is going to be some kid holding a box, thinking about buying them, when some GW fanboy comes up to him (and there is always a GW fanboy)and tell him not to buy them because he can't use them in 40K, so he's better off just buying some IG or marines, because warzone always dies!

 Ronin_eX wrote:
I love that Razide

Wait, what? Where's that new Razide I haven't seen?

OH GOD JUST WENT TO THEIR FACEBOOK AND SAW IT GOTTA CHANGE MY PANTS BE RIGHT BACK

Well if your looking to make the minis usable in

'as many games' as possible you probably should go for lipped 30mm rounds now as that seems to be the most popular choice for sf games

it's only if your looking to make them usable in the biggest game outthere at present (40K) that 25mm rounds make sense

 Andrew1975 wrote:
Look I'm not saying that they are doomed if they use different sized bases. I'm just saying that it probably behooves them to keep them standard.

Personally I'd consider the 30mm lipped bases to be the new standard, since it seems lots of newer games are using them now. Eventually 40k will be one of the only games still using 25mm slotta bases, and I expect that to change if GW ever thinks it becomes as big of an issue as you've made it out to be here.

 His Master's Voice wrote:

 Ronin_eX wrote:
I love that Razide

Wait, what? Where's that new Razide I haven't seen?

OH GOD JUST WENT TO THEIR FACEBOOK AND SAW IT GOTTA CHANGE MY PANTS BE RIGHT BACK

Indeed, it is perfect. It really makes the concept art just leap off the page.

 Ronin_eX wrote:

 His Master's Voice wrote:

 Ronin_eX wrote:
I love that Razide

Wait, what? Where's that new Razide I haven't seen?

OH GOD JUST WENT TO THEIR FACEBOOK AND SAW IT GOTTA CHANGE MY PANTS BE RIGHT BACK

Indeed, it is perfect. It really makes the concept art just leap off the page.

This one?
Is that resin or 3D printing or whaaaat?

Apparently a low-resolution resin prototype. Low-resolution! If that is the low-res one, then I am amazed.

Andrew1975: Regarding your argument about Prince August's sales. I would posit that base size might have been an issue since, at the moment, those minis are for a game system that is not supported.

Bring in a good ruleset that begs to be played on its own (one can hope), it might make base size irrelevant.

I for one would welcome the fact that I can't use it in W40K as I have one too many army for that system, trying hard to weane myself off of it.

(It's working great so far, thanks for asking)

 Sidstyler wrote:

 Andrew1975 wrote:
Look I'm not saying that they are doomed if they use different sized bases. I'm just saying that it probably behooves them to keep them standard.

Personally I'd consider the 30mm lipped bases to be the new standard, since it seems lots of newer games are using them now. Eventually 40k will be one of the only games still using 25mm slotta bases, and I expect that to change if GW ever thinks it becomes as big of an issue as you've made it out to be here.

See that's fine with GW, I'm sure they would be happy to be the only ones that uses their size base, and as far as I know they are really the only game that has Base Nazis. I still have some people cry over my rt terminators that are on the smaller bases, or my rt era heavy weapon that are not on the big bases. Some people really do give cry and moan about stupid stuff, and yeah, you are probably better off not playing with them anyway.

I'm just thinking if gamers were so picky on base size as they appear to be now, when I was buying my old warzone minis, would I have bought them if they were on a different base? Would having to buy bases additionally made a difference in my college kid budget when it was hard enough to afford a new box of minis anyway? I bought them because, at the time they were better sculpts (for what I wanted) than what GW offered, were a bit cheaper, and I could use them in both games. I have to say it would have made the decision harder, and I'm pretty sure I would not have bought as many bags of the plastic ones later down the road.

If the rules are going to allow for the smaller bases anyway, might as well just make them the standard.

Mathieu: That is the thing see you can afford lots of armies, and have lots of old ones, not a lot of people are in that position. For a lot of younger people its a one or the other situation. If people are already invested in 40k, it's going to be tuff to make them switch, especially to such a raw game. Do you know how long it will take for them to produce even just the full basic corporate armies? Each one with about 10 different infantry types. It just seams to be a bad idea to make them incomparable with a game that people can actually play.


That is a nice looking razide torso!

Bases are generally the last thing I think about when I get into a miniatures game. Sometimes they don't even factor in at all.

Seems this "Machinator Concept Art" hasn't been posted yet:

 Ronin_eX wrote:
Apparently a low-resolution resin prototype. Low-resolution! If that is the low-res one, then I am amazed.

Given the size of the tweezers, what details do you expect on the nano-level to make it a good model

the bases was as i recal 25mm and the figures just a litel bigger than those for w40k. 28mm insted of 25mm

like the pic of machinators

The armoured variant is fething creepy

Really like that armored variant

And those poses are really dynamic, though possibly mono posed if going that route.

These make me more excited than GoA war droids!

i was loking for a pic of my machinators but they ar in the laptop as for now.

No. Please. No Dark Eden shenanighans.

Funny we should mention it, I've been recycling old warzone bases this week, and the angle of the sides doesn't seem to be quite the same as GW.

That tank is a beast. It just reminds me how much I want to build an old Bis Mk1.

Some of the vehicles for me were too much an attempt to out-cartoon GW, and their designs were too close to GW's offerings for me to take seriously, although it is odd that I didn't have a problem with the outsized shoulder-pads. I sill have the assault on the citadel boardgame tucked away somewhere.

...Wow. I continue to be very pleased with these. I look forward to handing over a dumptruck full of money in exchange for several tons of these minis.

xraytango wrote:
Some of the vehicles for me were too much an attempt to out-cartoon GW, and their designs were too close to GW's offerings for me to take seriously, although it is odd that I didn't have a problem with the outsized shoulder-pads. I sill have the assault on the citadel boardgame tucked away somewhere.

i like the tanks and would wont more the Imperial Hedgehog Necromower was mabe a lithel to small? but its nice

the shoulder-pads i like them big as they are on all the minis.

some pics

I like the shoulder pads more toned back. I like the size of the should plates on the plastics from the starter set. They're big, but they're not super thick and chunky. And I find the vehicles above look really silly.

I'm really not sure what they are going to go with in terms of the an overall style when it comes to the armour human troops are wearing or the vehicle designs. I think I'd like to see elements that are reminders of the style, but a new take that is more modern and low profile as the overall design.

 Kroothawk wrote:
Seems this "Machinator Concept Art" hasn't been posted yet:


So it looks like you are ditching the cybertronic weapons designs. Too bad, I likes how sleek and hi tech their weapons used to be.