paulson games wrote:
Ultimate Mecha Front Monday Update!!!!!!


Mecha Front Kickstarter is LIVE!



https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/mechafront/mecha-front-miniatures









https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/mechafront/mecha-front-miniatures

2013 is shaping up to be a pretty big year for Paulson Games.

Several months back I announced that I had taken on a pretty large project, many of you have been asking what I was doing and I said I'd let you know when the time is right.

Now that things are running at full steam I figured I'd give everyone a small peek behind the curtain at what's coming up.

I'd like to introduce you guys to Mecha Front © which will be a tactical miniatures game centered around mecha combat. It will be a fast paced skirmish type game for two or more players. It takes all the things you love about western style mecha and boils it down to their raw essence. No singing ladies, no culture shocked giant aliens, no psy powered high school kids. This game is for gear heads who love raw gritty robot combat, smoking autocannon shells and the crack of deadly partical cannons.

The miniatures are shaping up to blow away all of my previous work.



Next month is going to mark 5 years that I've been open, it's had it's ups and downs but through it all you guys have been awesome and I wouldn't change any of it. I appreciate all my past customers, it has been your support and encouragement that has helped me get to this point. I look forward to putting out a new line of miniatures that I'm sure you will enjoy.


Enough of my blabber, onto the pics!


Neo-Bloc Mecha









NorAm Mecha

See, FASA? This is how you do it. Stupid FASA.

Looking forward to seeing more.

Pics appear broken to me.

Awesome. Now this, I will buy into.

~Eric

It's about time Jon

Count me in!

Ooh, what scale will these be? 15mm? 10mm? Comparable scale to whatever the Battletech minis are?

I'm a huge fan of the more realistic/believable aesthetic over the anime/gundam aesthetic. Not being tied to a specific IP also means you have more creative reign to do whatever.

Looking forward to this!

Nice looking concepts; if Battletech looked like that and had some more modern rules to accompany it, I suspect it would be a hell of alot more popular with a younger crowed. I'll definitely be keeping track of what you're doing here but I can't help notice that this thread popped up the same day as the Robotech one. Coincidence?

I'm in! Keep us posted!

Nicely done!

I can't see the pictures on my EVO :(

But still excited for this having followed your work up to now.

Very interestng, depending on size/material

Definitly interested! Your other resin is top notch so this should be good.

 paulson games wrote:

No singing ladies, no culture shocked giant aliens, no psy powered high school kids. This game is for gear heads who love raw gritty robot combat, smoking autocannon shells and the crack of deadly partical cannons.

Yes! Sing me the song of your people! Seriously, I'm really liking this and can't wait to see more.

The NorAM mechas remind me of Armored Core, in a good way.

Very nice Mecha designs! Looking forward to the Kickstarter!

Please let this be 15mm or something close to N model railroad scale. That way it's easy to find terrain and I can use These and my reaper CAV figures together.

These look exactly like the concept art for Mechwarrior Online (which is turning out great IMO) so here's hoping you enjoy similar success.

I would like to know more *click*.

Very cool looking stuff so far, I'd be super down for a new Battletech-ey game.

The game will be scaled for 15mm

Mechs will be resin and aproximately 60-70mm in height. Standard units are mounted on 60mm bases, the super heavy quads will be on either a 90 or 120mm base.

Material, scale?? I want!!

Looking cool

I might have to start a 15mm sci fi army one of these days

 paulson games wrote:
The game will be scaled for 15mm

Mechs will be resin and aproximately 60-70mm in height. Standard units are mounted on 60mm bases, the super heavy quads will be on either a 90 or 120mm base.

SHA-WEEET! Good job sir! take it and run with it!

Paulson, will it *just* be mechs in the rules? Or will there be a place for infantry, tanks, and flyers?

These look phenomenal, Paulson!

I love the NorAm light on the far right.

I like the concept art and look forward to finding out more, one question though! how many mechs per side for an average game? 15mm scale mechs aren't going to be cheap.

Mick

I love the artwork! Can't wait to see renders...

The game is being developed with skirmish levels in mind so a full sized force will be around 4-5 mechs.

Rules for tanks, helicopters, infantry will be in there. I won't be making models for those right away as the focus is going to be on the mechs. There are tons of great vehicles and infantry available for 15mm and it would eat up resources that can be sent making the mecha. If things are scuessful I will aim to introduce my own line of those at a later point.

Rules will be available in a PDF form, which will be kept as a living document. That will enbale free updates and revisions without players needing to shell out for a new book.

Wanting to scope out the rules. Artwork looks good so far.

 Cyporiean wrote:


Looking forward to seeing more.

I shall second this sentiment.

Well you can colour me interested, concepts look very promising and having seen your work in sure you can stay pretty faithful to them.

This looks really cool. All my mech combat is in n/10mm scale, but these look really nice. I'll be looking to see what kind of possibilities there is for crossover of models and definitely be watching the rules development.

Good Luck!

Very interested.

 paulson games wrote:
The game is being developed with skirmish levels in mind so a full sized force will be around 4-5 mechs.

Rules for tanks, helicopters, infantry will be in there. I won't be making models for those right away as the focus is going to be on the mechs. There are tons of great vehicles and infantry available for 15mm and it would eat up resources that can be sent making the mecha. If things are scuessful I will aim to introduce my own line of those at a later point.

Rules will be available in a PDF form, which will be kept as a living document. That will enbale free updates and revisions without players needing to shell out for a new book.

I like the sound of the 15mm scale. SO MUCH good stuff being produced for that scale right now.

Will the PDF of the rules be free, or just updates/revisions?

Any idea of the price-per-mech yet?

So if this gose well, do you have any plans to try for a non-U.S. Macross release, becouse I have no problem ordering from over seas. There is a lot there and the E.U. dosen't have the same problem as over here.

Best of luck to you.

What material will the models be moulded or cast in?

 Kilkrazy wrote:
What material will the models be moulded or cast in?

Methinks he should put this in the OP, with giant font

 paulson games wrote:
The game will be scaled for 15mm

Mechs will be resin and aproximately 60-70mm in height. Standard units are mounted on 60mm bases, the super heavy quads will be on either a 90 or 120mm base.

I believe he said they would be resin. I imagine it would be the same stuff he's used on other projects.

Looks cool. I love Battletech so gritty `Mech combat is something that warms the cockles of my heart.

Is this going to be a true miniatures game or a hybrid like Battletech that can be played on a map-sheet or terrain?

Anyone else digging the timing on this. I will probably end up supporting both projects. But I am enjoying the rivalry.

Really like these designs, I know it's shallow but I can't bring myself to play Battletech because of the goofy minis so I'll definitely be keeping an eye on this.

The rules set will be available for free. I'll lmake the PDF available before the kickstarter launches it'll be a basic no frills text version. I'll do a second version for sale which will likely be in the $5-$10 range which will have nice graphics and artwork. Both PDFs will have the exact same rules and free updates.

The game is going to be a tabletop wargame (that means no hex grids).

It's a little early to say a final price for models but it'll likely be around $30 per model, keeping in mind you'll only need 4-5 at most for a full game. I'm going to do everything that I can to keep costs down on the minis.

Did you say the material (resin?)?

 RiTides wrote:
Did you say the material (resin?)?

Several Times.

Resin.

 Rainyday wrote:
The NorAM mechas remind me of Armored Core, in a good way.

I see a lot in there Macross, Front mission, Brainpowered.

Looks sweet

Just to be sure...

Are these going to be resin?

Seriously sweet! Seeing the quality of your stuff, I am definitely buying. Battletech even predates my Warzone addiction, so I will be picking up a few mechs.

I wouldn't worry about infantry minis, there are a lot of "count as" for those on the market.

Can I send you a down payment right now?

 paulson games wrote:
The rules set will be available for free. I'll lmake the PDF available before the kickstarter launches it'll be a basic no frills text version. I'll do a second version for sale which will likely be in the $5-$10 range which will have nice graphics and artwork. Both PDFs will have the exact same rules and free updates.

The game is going to be a tabletop wargame (that means no hex grids).

It's a little early to say a final price for models but it'll likely be around $30 per model, keeping in mind you'll only need 4-5 at most for a full game. I'm going to do everything that I can to keep costs down on the minis.

Looks very interesting. I'll make note of this for later reference.

 Breotan wrote:
See, FASA? This is how you do it. Stupid FASA.

Amen.

I'm burning out on 28mm SF and Fantasy, so I think it's time to try a different scale/genre. I loved me some Battletech way back in high school, and adding infantry and tanks to the mix sounds fun. Count me in when the project goes live.

It is the perfect scale. Many other companies do cheap 15mm mechs and infantry. So when this launches, if it has rules for mech construction, or even more mechs than it will launch with, there will be plenty of miniatures available to supplement the line.

15mm mechs? You had me at "Hello".

It is the perfect scale. Many other companies do cheap 15mm mechs and infantry. So when this launches, if it has rules for mech construction, or even more mechs than it will launch with, there will be plenty of miniatures available to supplement the line.

Even if there aren't, Paulson stands to make a fair amount of money off people doing that exact same thing with his figs. The 15mm sci-fi gaming scene is fairly small compared to 28mm, but quite active. There are a TON of companies making figs just to make them, and a lot of companies that make rules just to make them. only a few actually make rules specifically for the models they release. It's very similar to the historical gaming scene where it's mostly SMALL gaming groups meeting in somebody's garage that all decide on a ruleset they like and each person deciding which figure line he likes best. Or convention games where one person supplies all the rules and models and a table and people just walk up and start playing. Having seen some of his past work, Paulson's rules could be crap and I'd still buy the figures to use with Gruntz or Strike Legion or 5150. If they play well then all the better!

 Kalamadea wrote:
15mm mechs? You had me at "Hello".

It is the perfect scale. Many other companies do cheap 15mm mechs and infantry. So when this launches, if it has rules for mech construction, or even more mechs than it will launch with, there will be plenty of miniatures available to supplement the line.

Even if there aren't, Paulson stands to make a fair amount of money off people doing that exact same thing with his figs. The 15mm sci-fi gaming scene is fairly small compared to 28mm, but quite active. There are a TON of companies making figs just to make them, and a lot of companies that make rules just to make them. only a few actually make rules specifically for the models they release. It's very similar to the historical gaming scene where it's mostly SMALL gaming groups meeting in somebody's garage that all decide on a ruleset they like and each person deciding which figure line he likes best. Or convention games where one person supplies all the rules and models and a table and people just walk up and start playing. Having seen some of his past work, Paulson's rules could be crap and I'd still buy the figures to use with Gruntz or Strike Legion or 5150. If they play well then all the better!

What drew me to 15mm originally is that it is reasonably large, and well fleshed out as a scale, but still hasn't had a definitive rule set or company come along and force people to use only their miniatures. There is no US v Them just lots of fantastic miniatures, and seemingly a place for all the manufacturers to coexist.

If I got into this I'd be using them for this game, not another... so I hope the ruleset is good!

Eeeeeeeeeeeeee!

 RiTides wrote:
If I got into this I'd be using them for this game, not another... so I hope the ruleset is good!

Aw man... my gig is up. I'd been planning on slipping by with a shoddy system but now that I've been called out I'm gonna have to do some actual work. Next time Gadget, next time!!





In all serious I want to make a game that's balanced and fun to play, I had pretty good player response at last year's Adepticon with the previous Robotech
game i'd drafted up and I think this one will be a good improvement over that as it'll offer several options I didn't have before. I will be making the ruleset
available to everyone in text form before the kickstarter launches that way they can decide if they like it or not and provide feedback if I need to improve areas.
I want to keep it a personal goal to be in sync with my customers and player player base unlike some bigger companies.

See, FASA? This is how you do it. Stupid FASA.

Arn't you about 30 years too late for that statement?

Given how popular Battletech still is, I'm also guessing they were not totally stupid.

On topic, cool looking mechs, 15mm is a turn off though. I play 6mm and 28mm and have no interest in starting another scale. But maybe the figs will be good for 'counts as' in something else.

Please have some form of mech building rules. It can wait until after the kickstarter funding period is over and a set of working rules is out, but I would love the ability to make a "mercenary" companies "custom" Mechs even if they have a tendency to be underpowered.

There will be 4 classes of weaponry, ranging from light to super heavy. Each mech profile will feature a number of hard points for weaponry and equipment. Players will be able to alter profiles by switching out armments based on their hard point availability. Mechs can upgrade to a heavier class weapon one step above their normal weight class at the expense of extra slots. This keeps light mechs from carrying heavy or superheavy weapons as they don't have the frame strength or energy capacity to support such massive items.

There will be a few set designs with hardwired systems that can't be changed with the benefit of an extra hardpopint vs customized mechs.

Pilots will also alter a units stats, experienced pilots (veterans & aces) will be able to chose skills to represent advanced training, raw tallent etc granting them options above what standard grunt pilots are capable of. Several of the heavy mechs and super heavy quads are crewed by more than one pilot making them very deadly if crewed by elite pilots.

The game won't have rules for building every individual aspect of a mech (like battletech), but it will allow you to pick a base chasis and outfit the weaponry and subsystems as desired.

Fantastic. I'm assuming EW and spotting for IDF style rules?

Also, at that scale, will the models be cast with weapon options, or "hardpoints" to attach various weapons?

 paulson games wrote:
There will be 4 classes of weaponry, ranging from light to super heavy. Each mech profile will feature a number of hard points for weaponry and equipment. Players will be able to alter profiles by switching out armments based on their hard point availability. Mechs can upgrade to a heavier class weapon one step above their normal weight class at the expense of extra slots. This keeps light mechs from carrying heavy or superheavy weapons as they don't have the frame strength or energy capacity to support such massive items.

There will be a few set designs with hardwired systems that can't be changed with the benefit of an extra hardpopint vs customized mechs.

Pilots will also alter a units stats, experienced pilots (veterans & aces) will be able to chose skills to represent advanced training, raw tallent etc granting them options above what standard grunt pilots are capable of. Several of the heavy mechs and super heavy quads are crewed by more than one pilot making them very deadly if crewed by elite pilots.

The game won't have rules for building every individual aspect of a mech (like battletech), but it will allow you to pick a base chasis and outfit the weaponry and subsystems as desired.

Uh, I think something is going wrong.

I am throwing my money at the computer screen, but rules and mechs aren't appearing.

I will keep trying, hopefully whatever technical issue is causing this will be sorted out soon.

GBL wrote:


Uh, I think something is going wrong.

I am throwing my money at the computer screen, but rules and mechs aren't appearing.

I will keep trying, hopefully whatever technical issue is causing this will be sorted out soon.

That only works on page one of the thread! Jeez...

The idea of strong and simple rules almost sounds like a 15mm scale CAV game, rather than Battletech, which is perfectly fine by me! I have been getting the urge for some time to get into 15mm gaming, because it would give me a changeup in my painting hobby for figures and terrain, as well as easier storage of terrain/smaller gaming table space to play a game.

Some questions:

I know you are running with the idea of skirmishing squads of mechs. Will you be designing the rules so that a force could also be made of infantry and tanks with a single mech or two for support, or will it mostly be themed towards a squad of mechs with a tank or an infantry unit or two in support?

Would infantry in your game be handled as individually-based troopers, or like other game systems where a 'unit" is a group of 3-5 figures on something like a 40mm base.

 warboss wrote:

GBL wrote:


Uh, I think something is going wrong.

I am throwing my money at the computer screen, but rules and mechs aren't appearing.

I will keep trying, hopefully whatever technical issue is causing this will be sorted out soon.

That only works on page one of the thread! Jeez...

Didn't work either.
I went to page one and threw money at the screen and nothing happened.

Thanks, Obama.

 Savageconvoy wrote:

 warboss wrote:

GBL wrote:


Uh, I think something is going wrong.

I am throwing my money at the computer screen, but rules and mechs aren't appearing.

I will keep trying, hopefully whatever technical issue is causing this will be sorted out soon.

That only works on page one of the thread! Jeez...

Didn't work either.
I went to page one and threw money at the screen and nothing happened.

Thanks, Obama.

Its a conspiracy I tells ya.

 paulson games wrote:

 RiTides wrote:
If I got into this I'd be using them for this game, not another... so I hope the ruleset is good!

Aw man... my gig is up. I'd been planning on slipping by with a shoddy system but now that I've been called out I'm gonna have to do some actual work. Next time Gadget, next time!!





In all serious I want to make a game that's balanced and fun to play, I had pretty good player response at last year's Adepticon with the previous Robotech
game i'd drafted up and I think this one will be a good improvement over that as it'll offer several options I didn't have before. I will be making the ruleset
available to everyone in text form before the kickstarter launches that way they can decide if they like it or not and provide feedback if I need to improve areas.
I want to keep it a personal goal to be in sync with my customers and player player base unlike some bigger companies.

This was hilarious and sounds great.

Hurm... awesome looks mechs. I'll have to keep an eye on this closely. Cheers!

Why do companies refuse to make anything but skirmish scale games?

I seriously have no interest in something as simple and basic as a game with 4-5 models all with similar functions.

Griever wrote:
Why do companies refuse to make anything but skirmish scale games?

I seriously have no interest in something as simple and basic as a game with 4-5 models all with similar functions.

plenty of games can scale up to mass combat(Brushfire does for example), but saying 'You need to buy around 100 models to get started' will turn people off of smaller companies games. Its much easier to build up a community over time with smaller purchase requirements.

Pretty much what Cyporiean said, it's much easier to attract a player base if there's not a high bar of needing a metric ton of models to play. If larger battles are wanted players can always expand the size of the game if they like.

The secondary issue is with the larger size of these models there's less table space. With the mecha being on a 60mm & 120mm bases it would be skin to playing 40k with everything using dreadnaught sized bases or larger. Factor in in sligtly larger terrain than 28mm stuff and a standard gaming table fills up very fast. The table space is the one downside of having large mecha models, where a smaller 1/300 game like battletech can use more units in the same space as it's half the size.

Again players can always run bigger games if they want.


Infantry will be handled as one unit per base, while they are going to be a support option don't expect a lot from them. The game is themed around quick moving mechanized combat, even the slow mechs have a good deal of mobility and IMO it's hard for troops to keep up when the battlefield is capable of dodging and walking speed is 30+mph. (Infantry isn't power armored) Tanks and ground vehicles are able to keep pace but will tend to be easier to hit as they are less manuverable. Helicopters and VOTL craft are the most mobile of the non-mech units but due to being aircraft they can't sustain damage like armor or mecha can.

 paulson games wrote:
Pretty much what Cyporiean said, it's much easier to attract a player base if there's not a high bar of needing a metric ton of models to play. If larger battles are wanted players can always expand the size of the game if they like.

The secondary issue is with the larger size of these models there's less table space. With the mecha being on a 60mm & 120mm bases it would be skin to playing 40k with everything using dreadnaught sized bases or larger. Factor in in sligtly larger terrain than 28mm stuff and a standard gaming table fills up very fast. The table space is the one downside of having large mecha models, where a smaller 1/300 game like battletech can use more units in the same space as it's half the size.

Again players can always run bigger games if they want.

As I have been collecting n and 15mm mechs for a little while now, my only criticism is that I cant get them fast enough.

I may need to buy some more n scale Japanese railway buildings, sounds like this game is going to rock.

Hungrily awaiting more detail.

Oh god, another very interesting looking game. I'm just going to start selling organs on the black market.


Looking forward to hearing more about this!

15mm is in scale with HO buildings, right?

And anecdotically, I used to have tons of fun with 4 mechs on the board. Just don't let that Axeman get too close.

Speaking of which, are there going to be close combat rules? Your mechs looks sensible aka not wasting resources on hands for giant fighting robots.

15mm "N-Scale" is 1/160 scale and there's plenty of terrain mostly made by japanese companies like Kato, Tomix, and Greenmax. The cool thing is many of them come pre-built and painted which are really well done, not anything like cheap clicky miniatures junk. if you really want to splurge you can even get stuff that has all sorts of built in lighting.

HO scale is 1/87 so it's a differant size. Some train moddlers use a mix of both as a way to make forced perspective for their tables.

If I can swing it I'd like to expand into making laser cut terrain for the game but that's a long term goal.

Physical combat between mechs will be limited, mostly kicking and ramming due to lack of ammo or other acts of desperation. Stomping tanks and infantry though will be more common place, afterall those squishies need to be shown who's boss

I should have a preview of the rough draft rules together by the end of next week.

Edit:Oops

15mm "N-Scale" is 1/60 scale and there's plenty of terrain mostly made by japanese companies like Kato. The cool thing is many of them come pre-built and painted which really relaly well done, not anything like cheap clicky miniatures junk.

HO scale is 1/87 so it's slightly smaller but can work ok for terrain. Some train moddler use a mix of both as a way to make forced perspective.

I think you have things backwards- as far as I've ever known, HO scale is larger then N scale; my father build both sizes extensively as train sets when I was a kid. N scale is the size of games like the clix-based Mechwarrior game, or Reaper's CAV mech game, I'm pretty sure.

As an aside, for terrain? If you are not bothered by using paper terrain, 28mm stuff like what is produced by Dave Graffam Games and the like can be made 15mm scale by printing it at 50%, or if you can't scale things through your printer, just print them at two pages per sheet. It's what I've done before.

Based on googling this is my understanding of what the sizes translated to

1:48 O scale
1:64 S scale
1:87.1 HO scale
1:160 N Scale

I think (not sure) that N scale is around the scale of Micro Machines, as my dad actually used some of them as civilian cars on his N scale set. (Boy, that was a long time ago- about 20 years).

 paulson games wrote:
Based on googling this is my understanding of what the sizes translated to

1:48 O scale
1:64 S scale
1:87.1 HO scale
1:160 N Scale

Correct.

Welcome to the great scale debate. I hope you like fractions, because we're going to do some cypherin'...

N Scale in the US is equal to 1/160th scale. In the UK it's 1:148th scale. In Japan, N scale is 1:150th scale. It's also called "10mm" in some wargaming circles as a general label.
Reaper's CAV and Wizkids' Clickytech were also in 1:160th.

There is also 1:144th scale, which is used in modeling (Hasegawa, Revell, etc) as well as Dream Pod 9's Heavy Gear, and some Bandai Gundam kits.

What is currently called "15mm" is best standardized, in my opinion, at 1:100 scale. Nice, neat, clean, and approachable, especially by metric types. A centimeter on the tabletop represent a meter. An inch is 8.33 feet. An average 1.8m tall human male is 18mm tall. An average 6ft (72 inches) tall human male is .72 inches, just under 3/4 (.75") inch. 1:100th is used by a number of companies, including Bandai for their larger Gundam kits, and a number of smaller model companies and miniatures manufacturers.
I'm 6'4" tall. 76 inches. 193cm. My tabletop representative would be .76 inches tall, or 19.3mm tall, unbased.

A 25ft tall mech would be 3 inches tall in 1:100th scale. (25ft x 12 inches)=300 inches. Divide that real-life dimension (300 inches) by 100 (the 1:100th scale part of everything), and your 25ft tall mech is 3 inches tall. 3 inches in metric is 76.2mm

That same 25ft tall mech in N scale would be ( (25ft x 12 inches=300 inches) divided by 160) = 1.875 inches tall. 1.875 inches times 25.4mm per inch equals 47.625mm in height on the tabletop.

Some folks will say 15mm is actually "TT" railroad scale, which is 1:120th. That's a bit too tiny for my taste.
Some will say 3mm to the scale foot (1:101.1 in fractional scale). Basically the same thing as 1:100 scale.
Others will say 1/8 inch to the scale foot (1:96th scale). Again, only a 4% difference. You're not going to be able to tell from across the table.

Honestly, N or 15mm, whichever you choose, size them how you like. Choose what fits best you and your intended market, and has the most support in the aftermarket. There's a lot of legacy 1:160th stuff out there, and railroad scenery is expensive but plentiful. 15mm/1:100th scale is coming on strong, but I'm biased, since a lot of my work is in that size range.

Here's a few Wikipedia articles that address the subject. Well, as well as Wikipedia CAN address a subject. There's a few loopy definitions and tidbits in there.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_scale_model_sizes

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scale_model

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rail_transport_modelling_scales

Best,
John Bear Ross

Paul,

From one creator to another.

No one is going to steal your concept art. Just put your logo and copyright (and website) above and below so that news websites can use your pretty pictures to help advertise the game for you, without the distraction.

It also means the name of the game, your studio name, and the website link will also be much more readable.

Besides, there's nothing to steal since you're already aping the look of Mechwarrior Online's mechs, which is a good thing in my opinion.

 Vertrucio wrote:
Besides, there's nothing to steal since you're already aping the look of Mechwarrior Online's mechs, which is a good thing in my opinion.

That's what I like about them, lol. The MWO designs are awesome.

Kinda wish someone would make models based on those for Battletech, but I guess no one cares. Some of the IWM stuff is okay, but the majority of it just looks so bad.

On one hand, I'm not a fan of the scale of the mechs (I prefer smaller mechs, feels more realistic, gritty, and faster paced than super big, slow, stompy robots), but on the other, I really like some of the designs.

I'd like to see where you go with this, there aren't many options for good mech miniatures out there.

Eh, I honestly think it's time for classic battletech to be replaced. As much nostalgia I have for the game and setting in all its iterations, it's dated and the mech designs exist purely based on nostalgia rather than good looks.

MWO does a nice job of updating them, but their designs are tied up with that game, we will not see those designs trickle back to the tabletop.

Paul here has a great opportunity to start something that will fill a niche that's been needed filling for a long time.

I know I'll be getting into the game when it comes out.

A new, refreshing look on mech games is most assuredly welcome, and the concepts look great.
I like the idea of interchangeable parts, I had always hoped that someone would put out a decent scale mech game along the lines of the old Chrome Hounds from Xbox, and this one sounds like it might be sorta close.

I am really interested in this. I do have a few questions.

What is 15mm scale? I only know of Battletech and 40K, LotR. How comparable is it to that?

My biggest concern is the lack of customability in games lately. One thing I loved about Battletech is you can make your own stuff. Everything almost. So will this game be more like Battletech where you can make your own stuff, but in friendly pick up games you use stock mechs or like more like 40K where you can't make your own stuff and units?

 paulson games wrote:
Pretty much what Cyporiean said, it's much easier to attract a player base if there's not a high bar of needing a metric ton of models to play. If larger battles are wanted players can always expand the size of the game if they like.

The secondary issue is with the larger size of these models there's less table space. With the mecha being on a 60mm & 120mm bases it would be skin to playing 40k with everything using dreadnaught sized bases or larger. Factor in in sligtly larger terrain than 28mm stuff and a standard gaming table fills up very fast. The table space is the one downside of having large mecha models, where a smaller 1/300 game like battletech can use more units in the same space as it's half the size.

Again players can always run bigger games if they want.


Infantry will be handled as one unit per base, while they are going to be a support option don't expect a lot from them. The game is themed around quick moving mechanized combat, even the slow mechs have a good deal of mobility and IMO it's hard for troops to keep up when the battlefield is capable of dodging and walking speed is 30+mph. (Infantry isn't power armored) Tanks and ground vehicles are able to keep pace but will tend to be easier to hit as they are less manuverable. Helicopters and VOTL craft are the most mobile of the non-mech units but due to being aircraft they can't sustain damage like armor or mecha can.

You can make reasons for why it's not as easy for you to make a larger scale game, but at the end of the day there's hundreds of these sci-fi skimrish scale table-top games that maybe 100 people in the whole country play.

Look at 40k. It's a bad game, run by an idiot company, that price gouges it's customers to no end. And still it's incredibly popular. Why? Because that style of game (larger scale sci-fi) is something people like and people want to play. We don't need a game with hundreds of models, but something more complex than "3-4 big robots with guns) is really what the gaming community wants. Something at least in the scale of 1000-1500 point Warhammer 40k games.

I understand it takes more resources and poses greater risk, but I see a lot of really promising games/IP (like this one) that just flounder around in obscurity because they're competing with hundreds of other games that are almost exactly a like. What the gaming community needs is somebody to step up to the plate and knock 40k off it's throne. The people who are playing that game want it to happen, they want another game to play. Everybody also says "well maybe in 4-5 years we'll up the scale" but they end up like all the other games just like them: "Who?"

Absolutely love some of the ideas here - the more realistic, gritty approach to mechs is something that hasn't been that common, especially at this scale.

I also have to ask, in-between this and the Infinity terrain you have been making, how on earth do you have time for all of this stuff?

Definitely looking forward to the KS being announced!

Are you looking for any play testing help?

What is 15mm scale? I only know of Battletech and 40K, LotR. How comparable is it to that?

Think of something nearly exactly in the middle and you aren't far off. Basically try to imagine 40K, but at 50% scale. A "15mm" human comes up to just below the waist of a 40K human, and instead of a base the diameter of a American quarter like in 40K, you can base them on individually a penny.

Here's some infantry from Rebel Minis, the mechs are right about the size of a Space marine model. Paulson's concepts sound like they'll be about twice the size - closer to a medium or heavy mech in Battletech when compared to a human (while these would only be a Light like maybe a Flea or Jenner mech), so they're cockpit would be looking over the balcony of the building behind.

I think this looks pretty cool but I have to echo prior sentiments, man do these look like MWO mechs. If I look hard enough I can even identify which Battlemechs from BT you based these off of.

That isn't to say they don't look cool and the miniatures won't blow IWM out of the water (IWM is so terrible it's sad), I just wonder if going for such a similar aesthetic is a good thing.

Speaking to game size, I would love something I can throw down a company v company fight on a 6x4 table (so 24 mechs). 4-5 mechs is nifty but sounds like it'll be a short game.

 IdentifyZero wrote:
I think this looks pretty cool but I have to echo prior sentiments, man do these look like MWO mechs. If I look hard enough I can even identify which Battlemechs from BT you based these off of.

That isn't to say they don't look cool and the miniatures won't blow IWM out of the water (IWM is so terrible it's sad), I just wonder if going for such a similar aesthetic is a good thing.

"Functional-looking western style mecha" inherently doesn't have that much variation to it, way I see it at least...

 Vertrucio wrote:
Eh, I honestly think it's time for classic battletech to be replaced. As much nostalgia I have for the game and setting in all its iterations, it's dated and the mech designs exist purely based on nostalgia rather than good looks.

MWO does a nice job of updating them, but their designs are tied up with that game, we will not see those designs trickle back to the tabletop.

Paul here has a great opportunity to start something that will fill a niche that's been needed filling for a long time.

I know I'll be getting into the game when it comes out.

Its less that battletech is dated, and more that they refuse to market to anything but nostalgia.

Davor wrote:
I am really interested in this. I do have a few questions.

What is 15mm scale? I only know of Battletech and 40K, LotR. How comparable is it to that?

My biggest concern is the lack of customability in games lately. One thing I loved about Battletech is you can make your own stuff. Everything almost. So will this game be more like Battletech where you can make your own stuff, but in friendly pick up games you use stock mechs or like more like 40K where you can't make your own stuff and units?

15mm scale means infantry models are typically around 15mm tall, so about half the height of 40k models. (depending on the company they can be around 17-18mm sometimes)

One of the large draws for that scale is that it keeps the costs of miniatures down and also lets people use more vehicles than they can with 28mm stuff. Think about how much table space it takes up to run 4-5 landraiders in a list for example and they are about 30% undersized for the size they should be. If you go even smaller Micro Armor stuff (6mm) can pack whole tank divisions onto a small table. 15mm N scale IMO offers the best mix for infantry and armor and on stuff like large mechs it offers a good amount of detail for the price.

In 15mm you can get squads of infantry for about $4-$5 and tanks typically run around $12 so it's insanely cheap compared to 28mm. For what you spend on a single landraider you can have a large 15mm army.


There will be be mech customization, it's not as extensive as battletech but it will be enough that people can swap out weapons and options for each game if they wish and it won't take massive amounts of math.

 Pacific wrote:
Absolutely love some of the ideas here - the more realistic, gritty approach to mechs is something that hasn't been that common, especially at this scale.

I also have to ask, in-between this and the Infinity terrain you have been making, how on earth do you have time for all of this stuff?

Definitely looking forward to the KS being announced!

There may be a few concessions to game play vs realism, but the visual theme I at least want to make as realistic as possible. Minding the fact that giant robot games can never truly be realistic

An unhealthy obsession with robots, a touch of insanity, and apparently never sleeping all help power my days.


.

Like the sketches and can't wait to see more.

This might be the sci-fi I have been looking for!

One of the large draws for that scale is that it keeps the costs of miniatures down and also lets people use more vehicles than they can with 28mm stuff. Think about how much table space it takes up to run 4-5 landraiders in a list for example and they are about 30% undersized for the size they should be. If you go even smaller Micro Armor stuff (6mm) can pack whole tank divisions onto a small table. 15mm N scale IMO offers the best mix for infantry and armor and on stuff like large mechs it offers a good amount of detail for the price.

Heck yeah. Right now I saw a couple of deals on the Rebel Minis' site where you can buy about 28 infantry figures including command, a trio of squad support weapons for around 15 dollars.

15mm is also a fun genre that doesn't seem to care about mixing companies' models. Heck, I've even pondered about using a couple of Firestorm Armada ships on shorter flying stems for hovertanks, and Post Human Republic walkers from Dropzone commander for mechs, but I would love to see a place where I could get a solid stable of gritty near-future mech models to go with what else (infantry, tanks, flyers) is available in 15mm right now. I like your mech concepts I've seen so far, Paulson.

Seriously, who cares about infantry really?

I just want to field battalions of tanks and mecha!

Jeff Racel has put together some very extensive photos of comparison shots of different "15mm" figs.

https://skydrive.live.com/?cid=c81057216b240d0c&id=C81057216B240D0C!435#cid=C81057216B240D0C&id=C81057216B240D0C!434

Note that the old "15mm" designation is a measurement to the eye, just like 28mm is to the eye, to compensate for headgear.

15mm has scale-creeped up to 1:100th scale (where I hope it locks in), which makes a 6 foot guy about 18mm to the top of the head, about 17mm to the eye.

Racel has also done a lot of comps of 1:100th scale mechs, walkers, and vehicles.

https://skydrive.live.com/?cid=c81057216b240d0c&id=C81057216B240D0C!435#cid=C81057216B240D0C&id=C81057216B240D0C!1559

Hope this helps.

Best,
JBR

GZG 15mm are chibi to the max. I quite like the Rebel Games infantry.

But, mechs above all!

You might want infantry to hold objectives, for instance. To be protected as per scenario rules...

Originally I had planned for 12 mechs in the inital release, currently I have artwork done for 8.

I had been thinking that I'd do 6 mechs for each side, however I'm currently debating if I want to keep to that plan or introduce a third faction which would also have 4 mech designs as that'd also keep it at the original 12 mech target.

2 factions with 6 mecha each

or

3 factions with 4 mecha each


Any thoughts?

3 Factions!

3 factions then when the game matures you might add another faction.

Two factions, please.

In regards to scale

http://theminiaturespage.com/ref/scales.html

fantastic mechs.

So, how does this work, do I just mail you my wallet, or what...?

Also, 3 factions, or two, whatever. I have to think it's easier to balance 2 and it allows for more choice of mechs per player.

3 factions.

Heck, 4 factions with 2 mechs each with a lot of options would be better. There's a reason why so many games release with 4 factions, it's a good round number so that people of different tastes can find the army they like, and any groups of players will have little overlap.

I agree, you really need 4 factions to have enough diversity to make a game interesting enough to stick around. If a game has 2 factions, even if they both have an immense amount of options feels very limiting. Even a small gaming group will have to do same faction-on-faction battles which always feel crappy no matter what game it is. Go with 3 factions bare minimum, but I would suggest bumping it to 4.

Don't add any factions past 2 if they don't add anything to the game AND the setting. That's my opinion at least. You can always add more later.

If your going the kickstarter route maybe start with two factions and if you make enough cash have the third faction available when the game goes on general release.

And now I know what you wanted to discuss with me, Jon.

I got to see Jon's artist working on these designs. Cheeky beggar didn't tell me they were for him!

I have various thoughts. Feel free to reach me at the usual place!

R.

2x6 for me is better than 3x4

I'd prefer two initial factions, then expanding later on provided subsequent factions were visually distinctive from the others.

I'm in for this. There's always more room in the 15mm market.

2 initial, stretch goals for 3rd faction . But if I truly have to choose, 2x6.

Real Games have eight factions in the rulebook :p

My vote is three distinct characterful factions plus toss around a few extra names for factions in the rulebook without illuminating them so you have stuff to expand on later.

By having only 4ish mechs a faction to start that gives you expansion options within the faction in addition to adding other factions. So, for example, the next wave could give each of the existing factions a new mech and launch a whole new faction with a handful of mechs for an 8 mech release.

I hate to say this but I see someone from battletech and/or mechwarrior coming to claim copyright and put a stop to this.

 juraigamer wrote:
I hate to say this but I see someone from battletech and/or mechwarrior coming to claim copyright and put a stop to this.

No, giant robot combat is generic enough that such a suit would be meaningless.

 Valhallan42nd wrote:

 juraigamer wrote:
I hate to say this but I see someone from battletech and/or mechwarrior coming to claim copyright and put a stop to this.

No, giant robot combat is generic enough that such a suit would be meaningless.

Like space marines?

Will there be any close combat?

 Bolognesus wrote:

 IdentifyZero wrote:
I think this looks pretty cool but I have to echo prior sentiments, man do these look like MWO mechs. If I look hard enough I can even identify which Battlemechs from BT you based these off of.

That isn't to say they don't look cool and the miniatures won't blow IWM out of the water (IWM is so terrible it's sad), I just wonder if going for such a similar aesthetic is a good thing.

"Functional-looking western style mecha" inherently doesn't have that much variation to it, way I see it at least...

Not nescessarily - Reaper's CAV do a pretty good job of looking like something that would work and providing a fair amount of variation between different models. They also avoid most the common anime features in the process.

15mm has scale-creeped up to 1:100th scale (where I hope it locks in), which makes a 6 foot guy about 18mm to the top of the head, about 17mm to the eye.

I wish companies would abandon sizes entirely and simply use a proper scale. Makes things much easier for everyone involved. A few of the companies have started referring to their figures as heroic 15 mm too - which adds yet another problem to the whole.

15mm N scale IMO offers the best mix for infantry and armor and on stuff like large mechs it offers a good amount of detail for the price.

I agree that it is a good value for the money...but careful with saying "N Scale" with 15 mm. They are not the same, and it could lead to anger and confusion down the road. N Scale is 1:144 to around 1:160 depending on whether or not you are in the US or Europe/Japan. The US predominantly uses 1:144 due to Imperial measurements, while 1:150 is popular in metric countries due to the ease of the math involved for scaling. It ends up translating to 10-12 mm sized figures, which are dwarfed by modern 15 mm figures. While a lot of the mechs won't necessarily have a specific point of reference for these sorts of scale differences...it is probably best to avoid the term to avoid the confusion it will lead to.

2 factions with 6 mecha each

or

3 factions with 4 mecha each

It is a tough one when considering the how to release things for a new game system. As others have mentioned, in order to get a group of people going - you want to have a variety of different forces and play styles in order to have something for everyone. However, that can lead to none of the armies having their full set of options in order for those armies to be used to their full capacity. You might consider doing something like 3 factions of 4 and then include one or two additional sculpts that might represent either independent forces that can be added to any army (as mercenaries) or civilian vehicles/mechs that are pressed into military service - though exactly how you work it will depend on the back story you decide to go with.

If possible though, more is better - even if you end up not providing figures for them on day one, putting the other factions in place in the rules will let people proxy while they get a handle on the rules and then as long as you follow up in relatively short order with the actual figures for those...there should be minimal consternation.

Hopefully these models are being designed with inbuilt modularity. It would be good to be able to make multiple variants for a class from one box. Creating parts pre socketed for magnets with corresponding attachment points would enable you to swap between weapons easily and if done right a modular carapace would allow later variants to be created using only a new carapace and weapon set. This would hopefully cut down on the different types of packaging needed and reduce number of parts for new variants a bit like with the PP add on packs.

 Valhallan42nd wrote:

 juraigamer wrote:
I hate to say this but I see someone from battletech and/or mechwarrior coming to claim copyright and put a stop to this.

No, giant robot combat is generic enough that such a suit would be meaningless.

Yep, I have 19 sets of rules to cover the genre on my shelf right now...and only one of them is Battletech. There is nothing particularly unique which they could claim, and even within the various designs - many features have become so common place as to be generic. They have even made a couple of movies on the matter, like Robot Jox.

I think the reason companies do not generally use a scale (eg 1/50) and use a size (28mm) is becasue in a lot of cases they are simply not making things to scale, especiall for human forms

a 1/56 scale figure (roughly 28mm) would have very small head/hands/feet/weapons compared to whay you are used to

even sculptors who try to work to accurate scales often have to 'beef up' areas like wrists/ankles/gun barrels simply to get something that casts properly

so while you can always quote a size (to the eyes or top of the head depending on your poit of view) quoting a scale would often be inaccurate (unless you said body 1/56, head 1/50, weapon 1/52 etc)

Yes - you would have certain technical issues regarding very thin things like weapon barrels - but that is an acceptable fudge. The head/hands are not what I am used to. I do not live in a circus, so "heroic" sizes look goofy (chibi). Scale model companies have been doing quite well, and you can even find figures in scales as small a 1/220 without too much difficulty. Those figures do have to make some compromises on the wrists - but they are not heroic by any means.

The reason that most companies stick with a size is because that is what they have done...and it allows them to avoid accountability. They can toss out things which are out of wack and you see scale creep happening all the time (15 mm is about 20% larger than it was when I started gaming for example).

 paulson games wrote:
Originally I had planned for 12 mechs in the inital release, currently I have artwork done for 8.

I had been thinking that I'd do 6 mechs for each side, however I'm currently debating if I want to keep to that plan or introduce a third faction which would also have 4 mech designs as that'd also keep it at the original 12 mech target.

2 factions with 6 mecha each

or

3 factions with 4 mecha each


Any thoughts?

How about two factions with 5 mecha each, and a third with only two mechs, but more tanks and aircraft?

 Rainyday wrote:


How about two factions with 5 mecha each, and a third with only two mechs, but more tanks and aircraft?

I'm okay with this.. and would probably play that one.

Can I get a V fin on some mech?

 Valhallan42nd wrote:

 juraigamer wrote:
I hate to say this but I see someone from battletech and/or mechwarrior coming to claim copyright and put a stop to this.

No, giant robot combat is generic enough that such a suit would be meaningless.

Yeah, no worries about lawsuits here. There have been plenty of mech games, models, etc and the only lawsuit I know of regards the various issues over the past 20 years with certain macross designs and the rights (or lack thereof) of the various owners of Battletech to use them. Especially in Japan, there are so many series' using Mecha that lawsuits would be largely pointless.

A few mech games with miniatures lines. Some current, some OOP.
CAV
Ronin
Battletech
Mekton
AT43
Heavy Gear (many of the early designs were startling close to Votoms)

And there are other games made without a miniatures line.
Mech Attack
War Dogs
Megabots
Meka Tac

I'm sure there are many others also as well as a couple companies (EM4, etc) who make mechs and not rules.

I'd say not less than 4 factions if you can avoid it. You said you are working on a kickstarter, so maybe you could just start with 2 if you want to keep your initial funding level low and then max out at 4 depending on how well it goes.

Jack Burton: Feel pretty good. I'm not, uh, I'm not scared at all. I just feel kind of... feel kind of [very good about this Kickstarter].
Wang Chi: Me, too. I got a very positive attitude about this.
Jack Burton: Good, me too.
Wang Chi: Yeah!

 bbb wrote:
I'd say not less than 4 factions if you can avoid it. You said you are working on a kickstarter, so maybe you could just start with 2 if you want to keep your initial funding level low and then max out at 4 depending on how well it goes.

He has enough mechs for 2 factions.

OR he could have 4 half built factions.

I would prefer the 2 factions.

I agree.

Two well designed factions with a variety of designs giving them some tactical options would be better than four semi-crippled factions.

I have plans for 7-8 factions in the game so far. The difficulty is that I only have the time and budget to do 12 models for the inital release. If the kickstarter does well I can expand later and add all the factions but it will take time. As I'm currently the only one person doing the sculpts they do take a fair amount of effort. While I definately appreciate people wanting to see an extrensive range of stuff quickly I can only produce so much at a time, it's one of the drawbacks of being a small company.

Ideally I'd like to have 24 models out within a years time, but that's a pretty high goal.


This was finished up the other night, it's the rough art for the Neo-Bloc Quad unit.

UNCLEBADTOUCH wrote:
Hopefully these models are being designed with inbuilt modularity. It would be good to be able to make multiple variants for a class from one box. Creating parts pre socketed for magnets with corresponding attachment points would enable you to swap between weapons easily and if done right a modular carapace would allow later variants to be created using only a new carapace and weapon set. This would hopefully cut down on the different types of packaging needed and reduce number of parts for new variants a bit like with the PP add on packs.

This.

 whitedragon wrote:
Will there be any close combat?

Like with "laser swords" or "hot axes"?

I like the quads.

 Ouze wrote:
I like the quads.

+1

These concepts are lovely. Dare I say they remind me of my times playing the beloved Armored Core games....


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Jefffar wrote:

 Valhallan42nd wrote:

 juraigamer wrote:
I hate to say this but I see someone from battletech and/or mechwarrior coming to claim copyright and put a stop to this.

No, giant robot combat is generic enough that such a suit would be meaningless.

Like space marines?

Excuse me, I'm from GW Legal and we now own this thread.

Cease and desist!

3 factions

I would like to see more than two faction in initial release but if this is not possible how would the idea of two alliances in initial release sound, four mech designs for the largest faction in the alliance with an additional 1 or 2 mechs from their allies, allows a little more flexibility and you could think about a second game style whereby the smaller factions have teamed up to rival the other two in terms of military might....

red corner USA has four mechs with 2 british support mechs

and in the Blue corner france has four mechs with support from spain in the form of 2 mechs...... etc

BTW loving the concepts so much I can't stand it

There's obviously folks on both sides of the fence, but I think you'll get more buy-in with more fleshed out factions... if that means less of them initially, so be it.

Might want to have your artist work on bits of flare and faction specific aesthetics that can be added to these mecha.

This way, you can keep the somewhat modular and practical nature of these machines that people like, but also make them look a bit less generic since you see to be tying these to specific factions.

These pieces could be added on, replaced, or left off for people who want the more generic look.

Darn it Paulson... this actually has me seriously interested/planning now.

However, I need to know when (ballpark) you think you might launch a campaign? Also, what the cost would be to get, say, the 6 mechs from one faction (again just ballpark). Again, for planning purposes...

Cheers

Tell me there will be a soviet themed faction, and I'll be lost. Or at least my wallet will be.

The Neo-Bloc mechs are awesome, aesthetically speaking, and that quad-walker is stunning. Keep up the awesome work, paulson!

Edit: Valhallan, based on the faction names it seems like the current two factions are some sort of North American force and some sort of (presumably Communist) Bloc.

Neo-Bloc looks awesome indeed.
They remind me of this by Chris David Parkinson


Always wanted to field something like that in a game.

Do you maybe have an estimate on when you plan to release them if you are able to say? 6 months to a year? Would be much appreciated!

Neo-Bloc is a Soviet themed group, NorAm is a mix of former US and Canadian states.

A large focus of the game setting is the world is almost out of oil, access to food and other resources are also strained due to extreme enviromental changes and global warming. "Can-Oil" (canadian oil multicorp) controls much of the worlds oil supply located in oil shale depositis in the northern US and oil sands located in northern Canada. They are stuck in the middle of the conflict between Neo-Block and NorAm, in order to maintain their own independence they employ their own military contractors collectively know as Blackfrost to defend against both sides.

Other major powers are the Brazilian Compact, Australia, China, India and the German Republic. These would be included in later suppliment along with mass battles and combined arms rules.


After giving things some more thought it's looking like I'll be doing 6 mechs per faction, plus 2-3 blackfrost mechs (one of which will be an exclusive kickstarter and convention promo).

The break down for Neo-Bloc and NorAm willl be 2 lights, 2 Medium, 1 heavy, 1 Quad. Blackfrost will have 1 Medium, 1 Heavy and a Unique Quad. Their mechs can be used independantly or allied with either force as they are in effect mercenaries and switch sides depending on what is to their advantage.


I'd like to have the first wave of models out within 5-6 months, (that's also accounting for kickstarter time) With a goal of having the remainer of a second wave within one years time, so rougly two waves 6 months apart. Final costs are still a bit uncertain, I'm plan on doing everything I can to keep them resonably priced. Rough estimate is that each mech will be in the $25-$30 range so if you plan for that it should be ok.

Sounds awesome! I'll be watching intently.

 paulson games wrote:
Neo-Bloc is a Soviet themed group, NorAm is a mix of former US and Canadian states.

A large focus of the game setting is the world is almost out of oil, access to food and other resources are also strained due to extreme enviromental changes and global warming. "Can-Oil" (canadian oil multicorp) controls much of the worlds oil supply located in oil shale depositis in the northern US and oil sands located in northern Canada. They are stuck in the middle of the conflict between Neo-Block and NorAm, in order to maintain their own independence they employ their own military contractors collectively know as Black Frost to defend against both sides.

Other major powers are the Brazilian Compact, Australia, China, India and the German Republic. These would be included in later suppliment along with mass battles and combined arms rules.


After giving things some more thought it's looking like I'll be doing 6 mechs per faction, plus 2-3 blackfrost mechs (one of which will be an exclusive kickstarter and convention promo).

The break down for Neo-Bloc and NorAm willl be 2 lights, 2 Medium, 1 heavy, 1 Quad. Black Frost will have 1 Medium, 1 Heavy and a Unique Quad. Their mechs can be used independantly or allied with either force as they are in effect mercenaries and switch sides depending on what is to their advantage.


I'd like to have the first wave of models out within 5-6 months, (that's also accounting for kickstarter time) With a goal of having the remainer of a second wave within one years time, so rougly two waves 6 months apart. Final costs are still a bit uncertain, I'm plan on doing everything I can to keep them resonably priced. Rough estimate is that each mech will be in the $25-$30 range so if you plan for that it should be ok.

That's sounds great. Eagerly awaiting more info, and somewhere to send my money.

That mech breakdown sounds perfect!!! A KS exclusive mech for Blackfrost is just smart, and having them be mercenaries is even better. Do you know when you'd be putting up the KS? Since funds come out of our hands then, not at delivery

 paulson games wrote:
Neo-Bloc is a Soviet themed group, NorAm is a mix of former US and Canadian states.

A large focus of the game setting is the world is almost out of oil, access to food and other resources are also strained due to extreme enviromental changes and global warming. "Can-Oil" (canadian oil multicorp) controls much of the worlds oil supply located in oil shale depositis in the northern US and oil sands located in northern Canada. They are stuck in the middle of the conflict between Neo-Block and NorAm, in order to maintain their own independence they employ their own military contractors collectively know as Blackfrost to defend against both sides.

Other major powers are the Brazilian Compact, Australia, China, India and the German Republic. These would be included in later suppliment along with mass battles and combined arms rules.


After giving things some more thought it's looking like I'll be doing 6 mechs per faction, plus 2-3 blackfrost mechs (one of which will be an exclusive kickstarter and convention promo).

The break down for Neo-Bloc and NorAm willl be 2 lights, 2 Medium, 1 heavy, 1 Quad. Blackfrost will have 1 Medium, 1 Heavy and a Unique Quad. Their mechs can be used independantly or allied with either force as they are in effect mercenaries and switch sides depending on what is to their advantage.


I'd like to have the first wave of models out within 5-6 months, (that's also accounting for kickstarter time) With a goal of having the remainer of a second wave within one years time, so rougly two waves 6 months apart. Final costs are still a bit uncertain, I'm plan on doing everything I can to keep them resonably priced. Rough estimate is that each mech will be in the $25-$30 range so if you plan for that it should be ok.

I am all for some Australian Faction lovin

Lovin the idea. Only issues I'd have would be that the whole German faction just seems overdone. I could see them as a leading faction in an EU army, but it just seems too easy or similar all other world conquest games. Just my opinion, take it for what it's worth (ie. not much).

Also like the concept of an Australian faction, but given that oil is at a premium, I'd think the costs of mobilizing an army for Australia would be overwhelming. Maybe make them more elite as they can only afford to send the best of the best out. When I build this army I will be calling them the "Joey" faction.

@paulson What's the state of nuclear power in the games. Are there nuclear powered transports, or how are these monsters moved around the globe? Is there flying craft that carry these or do they walk to the target zone? If they walk then I think there's going to be a lot less tactical skill involved and a lot more pounding.

The German Republic is pretty much the leading force for the former EU. No worries about them falling into the typical sci-fi trap of being a facist bad guy state. Much of London and Paris are flooded and there's been a huge population migration shift northwards within the EU as a result they were one of the very few countries that not only grew but at the same time were able to maintain a relatively stable industrial and scientific base. This will be expanded on as I get the text files out to people soon.

Nuclear power is still around and it's what fuels the major city states. Several powers still have nuclear powered ships but even with decades of advancement even the smallest nuclear platforms are still rather massive vessels. Bio Fuels are in use but are very costly to produce. Mecha are typically deployed by air from specialized VOTOL towing craft. (think Dougram or Armored Core style). They are agile and fast moving for their size but due to their large profile and IR heat signatures they are vunerable in open terrain, their helix engines provides a huge amount of power in short surges but are not capable of tranversing extended distances on foot. They shine however as urban fighters and as rapid strike units. Due to the resources involved in their construction virtually every country that has access to them uses them in a manner simular to how use modern day special forces, they serve primarily as a force multiplier and specialize in doing rapid hit and run missions.

For extended ground campaigns and territory occupation traditional armor and combined forces are still employed.

2 factions or 3? If keeping it simple, I say go with 2 factions and add say 4 or 6 or even all 12 you have as small blurbs for factions to come but people can use.

I don't like the idea of say 6 mechs per faction for a total of 12. I guess you can go either of 2 ways. Either the Battletech way or the Heavy Gear way.

Battletech way, different factions, use what ever you want. Heavy Gear way, pick a faction but have to use for the faction you choosed for.

I rather have the 2 main factions (with a little bit of history on the other factions to come) so I can choose who I want to be, but then take any mech I want. Nothing worse than picking the fluff you like but hating the minis, or loving the minis but not liking the faction.

Also if you include mech building, then having only 6 mechs to start with (or even 12, I believe Battletech started with 12 or less, but we could make our own to have unlimited mechs) would be a good place to start. Start small, add when you can.

The big killer for me, in this game if there is no mech building, I won't bother then. We already have so many games where you can't make your own units, why would I want to start another one? If no mech building better have awesome customability. Make mech slower to add heavier armour or armament, or make it less armoured or armour to have it faster etc etc.

For me, not sure for others is to have lots of custom ability. I never gotten into Heavy Gear because at the time, I didn't see enough of making the mechs personably to me. Never gotten into 40K because of it either. Only got into 40K 10 years later because it was the only game in town at the time.

Same for Warmahordes etc etc. Too many games where there is no ability to change design. Look how many of us loved Vehicle Design Rules for 40K when it came out. How about Creature feature? I loved them.

The only problem is, is to make it balanced. So if it's balanced you should have an awesome game system.

The other question is, are you here to make minis, (GW) or rules (Catalyst with MechWarrior) or both (Dream Pod 9). Just curious what your main focus will be.

One more thing, not sure if you are alone in doing this or you have others helping, would you like to have us make submissions into factions, universe, mechs and rules?

He already clarified- 6 mechs apiece for the 2 main factions, and 3 more Blackfrost mechs, which will be mercenaries and work for either faction. One blackfrost sculpt will be a KS exclusive.

Sounds absolutely perfect to me

 RiTides wrote:
He already clarified- 6 mechs apiece for the 2 main factions, and 3 more Blackfrost mechs, which will be mercenaries and work for either faction. One blackfrost sculpt will be a KS exclusive.

Sounds absolutely perfect to me

Missed that. Bit disappointed in that. Oh well you can't make everyone happy.

I spent a good part of yesterday wearing my fingers down to little numbs hammering out ideas and mechanics so I'm going to need to go light on replies today while I take a breather.

Hopefully a peek at some of the setting concepts can help hold you over.

The setting write up is currently about three pages and I didn't want to gum up the thread with it so I've posted it both on my website and also my facebook page.

Paulson Games: http://www.paulsongames.com/mecha-front.html

Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/paulsongames


It's still a rough draft so apologies in advance for typos and errors, I make minis and I don't tend to wear a writers hat very often.

Davor wrote:
The big killer for me, in this game if there is no mech building, I won't bother then. We already have so many games where you can't make your own units, why would I want to start another one? If no mech building better have awesome customability. Make mech slower to add heavier armour or armament, or make it less armoured or armour to have it faster etc etc.

The other question is, are you here to make minis, (GW) or rules (Catalyst with MechWarrior) or both (Dream Pod 9). Just curious what your main focus will be.

One more thing, not sure if you are alone in doing this or you have others helping, would you like to have us make submissions into factions, universe, mechs and rules?

Customization will definately be featured.

I'm working on both rules and miniatures to make a complete game, and if it does well promoting it with tournaments at convention.

Currently I don't need any submissions; however once I get the rules up and have more of the back ground in place I'll defiantely be interested in feedback as I plan on having an open developement process with my readers.


.

Still hoping for ballpark KS timeframe if you can share it. My funds tend to get earmarked pretty fast :-/ and I don't want to miss this.

I'll dfefinitely keep an eye on this - I know my brother will as well. Chunky westernised mechs are my all time favorite.

Great stuff, l like the fluff so far. Keep it up.

Not sure if you know or not, but Alberta is not the only place for oil. Don't forget Newfoundland. They are becoming a new place for oil, so maybe they can become a power or not.

Then again you already have plans for them and you will show it later.

All I can think of right now is Alberta vs Texas lol. I can't wait for more.

It all looks tremendous, who knows, this could be my second kickstarter ;-)

Purely mech on mech or will there be tiny infantry to step on and squish?

ghpoobah wrote:
It all looks tremendous, who knows, this could be my second kickstarter ;-)

Purely mech on mech or will there be tiny infantry to step on and squish?

I believe paulson said that there will be tanks and the infantry.

@ paulson
I don't know what your plan was but when the rulebook becomes available can you include at least a beta for non mech rules?
And if so stats for at least a generic/play test of each of the following: infantry, apc and basic tank?

 paulson games wrote:


[...]

NorAm Mecha

[...]

Now THAT is a mech I will buy. In multiples. I need an ARMY of those!!

Agreed Sikil . I hope they are designed with magnetizing weapons in mind... seems like a must. Pre-made magnet holes would be sweet

 RiTides wrote:
Pre-made magnet holes would be sweet

Yes please!

If the models are anywhere near as good as the pics then I'm in. The story so far sounds excellent.

+1 on the pre made magnet holes... and a free internet if you can cast the magnets into the figure during production

No need to cast them in, just get together with a Magnet supplier and include them into the kit. Shouldn't add much per kit magnets are cheap. Will let you make a bit more money per kit too as you would get the magnet profit as well.

And since those will be made by Paulson, you know they'll be quality once you have them in hand. I bought some sci-fi scatter terrain from him, and it is smooth, perfect and appropriately detailed.

30$ a Mech sounds fine if I am going to field no more than 6. If the rules call for multiple lances... I'm not sure I could do it right away. A few tanks, VTOLs or infantry bases would be nice, I still think.

$30 each will depend a lot on size and quality if they are worth it or not.

Yeah, hopefully they are big (it sounds like they will be). And the $25-$30 was a ballpark number... I can't imagine the light mechs and the 4-legged huge mechs are going to be the same price (or even all that close in price).

Hopefully that number was the cost of the bigger ones but I am definitely interested! He also mentioned base sizes from 60mm-120mm, right? So, they sound big...

I will keep a close eye on this - I love the bitz you already have available, and this looks like it'll be great.
Might even be the first Kick Starter I actually put money to.

Another round of concept art is in. These are on the alternate chasis for the light mechs. The focus for this frame is speed and sensory equipment while the previous designs are a bit more rounded general combatants. There are 3 seperate weapon load outs for each of them, but being a big meany I'm going to space them out every couple days so I can tease you guys with them.

I'm about 50% through revising the rules, I should have the first draft done by next friday. (or sooner)

Both look awesome.

Magnets sound great, but didn't Australia just ban them recently due to health hazards if swallowed? I know it sounds stupid, but wouldn't that limit the kits being able to be sold in Australia. Not sure of the legalities.

All these designs are looking promising. Very much the mechs game that I have been waiting for in terms of style and hopefully game play.

Something you might want to consider on the fluff front is that the Antartic is expected to house large resources of oil beneath the surface. As its not owned by a single country there could potentially be constant conflict all across the South Pole.

Also if oil is running low how are these mechs powered? Is it hydrogen? Or nuclear?

Looking forward to seeing more of this. Keep up the exciting developments!

Zwan1One wrote:
Also if oil is running low how are these mechs powered? Is it hydrogen? Or nuclear?

Mecha are powered by mercury helix engine that poduces rapid bursts of electricity. How does that work? Well... um... OMG! Look over there!!!

:::ninja smoke bomb and runs:::


Large alternate energy engines and storage cells that aren't quite nuclear in level, they need to be used in combination with artifical muscle in order to work so it can't power most conventional vehicles. That's about the extent of my made up science.



.

Dilithium crystals!

What do you think about the magnet holes, Paulson? Just for arms / main weaponry.

This looks amazing. I can't wait to see what more you come up with. And am also commenting for the sole purpose of monitoring this thread.

There's not a single NeoBloc concept that hasn't been amazing, and this one continues that trend. Can't wait for the other two lights!

Oooh, Jimmy wanty...
I love the mechs. Gives me a feeling of Armored Core or the new Mechwarrior. $30 each seems a bit steep for me, but then I'm used to having to field loads and loads of puny infantry.

Once you post some sizes, I may just start throwing money at the screen.

Here's a mock up of aproximately how they will scale.



The Privateer Press warjacks that size sell for between $35-$60 depending on if it's a charater or not. Their large 120mm base stuff start around $85 and heads upwards of $135.


I'm aiming to keep the heavy mech in the $30-$35 range if possible. Light mechs will probably be in the $20-$25 range.

I'm going to try and keep the price on my quads down as I don't want anything quite that high in price. But i won't have a firm price on those until I have a physical model to calculate volumes from. Unless you are planning on an insanely huge battle a player wouldn't need more than one quad, at skirmish level they are pretty much your entire force save for maybe 1-2 light scout mechs.

Prices right now are just a guess-timate until I have the final printing costs back and I know exactly how much resin and silicone I'm using.




.

Are you planning on trying to get the game into distribution? That's one of the biggest factors that keeps our prices nearer to PP's (needing to factor in making profit on a 60~70% discount).

That's a handy size/scale picture, thanks!

Just so I'm clear, that's a heavy mech and a quad, so you haven't put a price on the quads yet (if they're on 120mm, obviously they're going to be more, that just makes sense).

Can't wait

 paulson games wrote:
Here's a mock up of aproximately how they will scale.



The Privateer Press warjacks that size sell for between $35-$60 depending on if it's a charater or not. Their large 120mm base stuff start around $85 and heads upwards of $135.


I'm aiming to keep the heavy mech in the $30-$35 range if possible. Light mechs will probably be in the $20-$25 range.

I'm going to try and keep the price on my quads down as I don't want anything quite that high in price. But i won't have a firm price on those until I have a physical model to calculate volumes from. Unless you are planning on an insanely huge battle a player wouldn't need more than one quad, at skirmish level they are pretty much your entire force save for maybe 1-2 light scout mechs.

Prices right now are just a guess-timate until I have the final printing costs back and I know exactly how much resin and silicone I'm using.




.

Sweet Jesus that's a big boy. Time to hit the gym!

 Cyporiean wrote:
Are you planning on trying to get the game into distribution? That's one of the biggest factors that keeps our prices nearer to PP's (needing to factor in making profit on a 60~70% discount).

Doing my best on that, the goal of the kickstarter will be to raise costs to cover the printing, molds, art, etc so I can cover the inital developement. Once everything is taken care of it should be available to general retailers if all goes well.

I also plan on doing some convention events and tournaments as well.

 RiTides wrote:
That's a handy size/scale picture, thanks!

Just so I'm clear, that's a heavy mech and a quad, so you haven't put a price on the quads yet (if they're on 120mm, obviously they're going to be more, that just makes sense).

Can't wait

To be super clear yes that's a heavy mech and a quad. Estimate on the heavies is in the $30ish range. There is no costs estimate on the Quad yet as it's big as hell and I have no way to know yet as it's much bigger than anything I've previously cast.

If you need any help with Technobabble, rules review, etc, I'm happy to help.
I have a long history with babblese and creating rules.

(For example - the Mercury Helix Drive could be ran using a catalyst with burst of energy stored in a starter battery, vaporising then charging the Mercury with the crystal helix, that creates high intensity bursts of UV radiation, that are absorbed by capacitors, the energy charged used to partially to recharge the starter battery, the remaining energy being flushed into the mechs systems, while the energized mercury discharges, cooling and returning to its liquid form.
The Catalyst being a relatively rare material (only recently discovered in this futureverse) that makes the mercury vapour 'burn' brighter than it would normally, and with greater intensity than would normally be expected.
However, it's a relatively short-term burst of unique energy that's only usable by the electronic muscle system.
- This is just off the top of my head, I'm sure I could come up with better with more thought.
Also, I love giant robots )

That scale is amazing. If I had to find an issue with it, is that it dwarfs my Battletech N Scales. But that's not an issue.

 paulson games wrote:

 Cyporiean wrote:
Are you planning on trying to get the game into distribution? That's one of the biggest factors that keeps our prices nearer to PP's (needing to factor in making profit on a 60~70% discount).

Doing my best on that, the goal of the kickstarter will be to raise costs to cover the printing, molds, art, etc so I can cover the inital developement. Once everything is taken care of it should be available to general retailers if all goes well.

I also plan on doing some convention events and tournaments as well.

May I suggest that you talk to Mark Mondragon "NoseGoblin here on Dakka) about his DreamForge Games Kickstarter. It went really fabulously, and he probably can help you with tips to make sure you have a successful Kickstarter that won't drive you crazy.

Looking forward to seeing more!

-C6

I've already been in contact with Mark, he's a very nice and helpful guy. Gave me some really good insights on how to approach this and some leads to check on for production.

That's sweet since I'm planning to be supporting both of your companies. Different scales, so not even in competition (although there could be some crossover with the 15mm walkers he made for the Kickstarter, but that was more to bring them in line as proxies for 28mm non-titans, as his game itself is 28mm).

I am sooooo gonna be broke and on my way to divorce...........

Oh yes, Paulson is just as deserving of our support as Dreamforge.

So would the lighter mechs be closer to that 25ish $ range?

 paulson games wrote:
The Privateer Press warjacks that size sell for between $35-$60 depending on if it's a charater or not. Their large 120mm base stuff start around $85 and heads upwards of $135.

I'm aiming to keep the heavy mech in the $30-$35 range if possible. Light mechs will probably be in the $20-$25 range.

I'm going to try and keep the price on my quads down as I don't want anything quite that high in price. But i won't have a firm price on those until I have a physical model to calculate volumes from. Unless you are planning on an insanely huge battle a player wouldn't need more than one quad, at skirmish level they are pretty much your entire force save for maybe 1-2 light scout mechs.

Prices right now are just a guess-timate until I have the final printing costs back and I know exactly how much resin and silicone I'm using.

See above Mathieu emphasis mine.

Good. I've always loved the light-mech feel. Much to my chagrin, I must say, as they rarely could hope to bring a heavy mech down.

The tons system of Battletech wasn't properly balanced, I always felt. Since each mech has to pay it's tonnage in gyro, engine, cockpit and support systems, it was always wiser to have fewer mechs of a heavier tonnage. It didn't really scale right.

I dunno... I tended to do alright with lots of lighter mechs when I played...
Then there was the comedy of putting short-barreled Long Toms on light mechs....

The medium weight NorAm mech wasn't sitting quite right so we sent it back to the mech bay for modifications to bring it a bit more inline with the feel of the light & heavy. It wasn't bad but something seemed a bit off and the design didn't come off quite as strong as the others. The new changes are subtle but I think they improve the look.






One of the things I'm working on with the mechanics is how the armor and weapons scale. In battletech it always bugged my that a light mech and an assulat mech can boith carry exactly the same large laser. It does the same damage regardless of what mech is using it. So for my system as mechs get bigger they not only have a few extra damage boxes but the firepower of their weapon also scales up as well. A good pilot in a light mech can still damage or even kill bigger mechs, but if you are in a light mech you definately do not want to get hit by a heavy or quad as their weapons can peel through light armor like butter. (Light mechs are meant to rely on speed for their defense).

This is actually realistic (in a sense, there are general unrealistic things about giant robots as war machines, but the rule of cool is definitely in their favour).

If you look at modern armoured vehicles, they tend to fall into a few specific categories.

Very lightly armoured (ie an armoured jeep), these vehicles have enough armour to stop a machinegun, but a heavy machinegun can punch through and any sort of cannon, rocket or missile should obliterate them.

Light armour (ie an APC) that is resistant up to heavy machineguns and sometimes light automatic cannons, but a medium cannon and any kind of anti-tank weapon should demolish them.

Medium armour (ie an IFV). At this level a vehicle is impervious to anyting less than a medium autocannon and depending on the range and angle it can shrg off those too. We often see enhanced armour packages that prevent light anti-tank rockets and missiles from scoring a killing blow either. Of course a full on anti-tank gun, tank cannon or heavy anti-tank missile should still do the job.

Heavy armour (ie a tank) you need an anti-tank weapon to even hope of getting through this armour, and even then that might not be enough.

Now the trick with this is yes, on a lightly armoured platform (ie a HMMWV) you can put a weapon that can defeat heavy armour (ie a TOW launcher). of course if you sit still in a gunfight with that heavy armoured platform, there is a very good chance of it killing you before you can kill it because even its secondary weapons will rip you apart. So that is why the lighter armoured platforms need speed, agility and the ability to hide.

Another fun thing is that armoured vehicles tend to hae their armour biased towards the front and the heavier the armour you get, the greater this discrepancy becomes (ie there have Abrams tanks knocked out from the rear with a 25mm cannon despite having armour that should stop a 125mm cannon from the front). This is something that works in favour of more mobile units as they can position themselves for their shots to be more effective.

I hope Paulson's game has a mechanic that reflects this somewhat. I also hope that when armoured vehicles are added there is a realistic depiction of the relative capabilities of armoured vehicles and mecha (ie Armoured Vehicles should be about a weight class ahead of mecha in terms of firepower and armour).

I like both the old and new concepts above and they're similar. Although I definitely prefer the NorAm look over the Neo-Bloc generally...

Wowza, the scale looks completely fantastic. I am so freaking excited about these sculpts, especially the quads - they look incredibly cool. Consider me a subscriber.

Woahdamn. Awesome designs and it looks like they're going to be pretty damn big. I predict that a decent chunk of my disposable income is going to be going Paulson Games' way.

I'm not digging on the appearance of the quad legs, and I think it has to do with the feet. It looks like the legs of two guys doing squats back to back. It just looks awkward and ungainly to me.

I know spider style pointed feet would be out (too much pressure to be practical, but perhaps some sort of foot that either look like it's moving in the path of travel (ie, parallel to the body) or can be omi-directional. And is there anything wrong with a six legged mech? I'd think they'd be more stable.

There is nothing inherently wrong with a hexipedial, octopedial or even centepedial mecha, but there are design considerations that come into place as you go. One of the biggest is that the more limbs a mecha has, the greater the surface area compared to its internal volume is.

This may not seem like a big deal, but when you need to protect a mecha with armour it's huge because it means that for any given weight of armour on your mecha, the armor will be thinner. So by adding extra legs you need to decide if the reduced protection (or increased weight from adding extra armour to compensate) is worth it.

Jefffar wrote:
There is nothing inherently wrong with a hexipedial, octopedial or even centepedial mecha, but there are design considerations that come into place as you go. One of the biggest is that the more limbs a mecha has, the greater the surface area compared to its internal volume is.

That's true, but it's offset (typically) by the decreased ground pressure the mecha exerts to some extent, which allows you to have a heavier load capacity than a bipedal mecha for a given bit of terrain. Whether or not that increase in weight corresponds to greater or lesser defensive capability can depend greatly on the backstory. If it's simply more armor == better armor, than quads should typically have equal or at best slightly better armor (assuming that legs are armored more heavily towards the front). If it's a matter of active shields or some other techno-magic, then all bets are off, and the quads could be significantly more durable.

Either way, I think they look pretty neat. I can't wait to see what Spaceman Spiff makes one of them into.

The way the quad legs are set up is so that they'd be able to move in any direction without needing to turn. The "torso" functions simular to a tank turret where it can rotate and change facing. This allows the Quad to change direction from it's current posistion simply by rotating its torso on it's axis and going in a new direction, allowing them to turn on a dime even if it's done at a relatively slow pacing.

They are already slow and requiring extra time and lateral distance for turning would futher weaken them vs faster moving mecha. Most of the combat takes place in urban enviroments where maneuvering space for such a large mecha can be a limitation. A full 360 degree range of motions is why their legs look a bit awkwards with each leg/foot facing at an outwards angle.

A six legged animal can side step but it's more complicated as they still tend to built for forwards/backwards movements (or sideways in the case of a crab) The extra legs also place a limit the range movement of the foremost and rearmost legs making hard turns a bit more complicated.

If a Quad loses a leg there's a good chance of it falling, they can remain standing (or stand back up) on 3 legs but they are considered immobilized at that point.


Their role is pretty much to be a heavy duty firing platform, like a mobile gun turret or artillery piece they have the capacity to get into posistion but spend most of their time firing from stationary point.


.

 paulson games wrote:
The medium weight NorAm mech wasn't sitting quite right so we sent it back to the mech bay for modifications to bring it a bit more inline with the feel of the light & heavy. It wasn't bad but something seemed a bit off and the design didn't come off quite as strong as the others. The new changes are subtle but I think they improve the look.






One of the things I'm working on with the mechanics is how the armor and weapons scale. In battletech it always bugged my that a light mech and an assulat mech can boith carry exactly the same large laser. It does the same damage regardless of what mech is using it. So for my system as mechs get bigger they not only have a few extra damage boxes but the firepower of their weapon also scales up as well. A good pilot in a light mech can still damage or even kill bigger mechs, but if you are in a light mech you definately do not want to get hit by a heavy or quad as their weapons can peel through light armor like butter. (Light mechs are meant to rely on speed for their defense).

For me, I like the old pic. I like the larger window and bigger cockpit. Also maybe because the left gun is pointed at us the pose looks better as well.

As for the Battletech system, I liked it. Yes while it doesn't seem right that a light mech has the same lazer as an assault mech, I believe it was balanced. Everyone can use the same weapons, so it all comes to speed vs armour vs weapons. Everyone is on an equal playing field.

Now if criticals actually made a difference then you can do that. By that I mean, you "buy" critical spaces. Non of this small mech has 10 crits, a medium has 15 etc etc, you buy them for weight or tonnage. This way you make your small mech and it can be as small or big as you want (in a small mech category) and not have wasted criticals. So this way you want a small lazer has 1 crit, and a another small laser but bigger damage has more crit. This way everything is on the same scale other wise, it's just going to turn into everyone taking bigger mechs because the weapons are better and the small mechs can't compete.

That is why Battletech is good. All the mechs are on the same scale using everying the same. So while it may not seem right, it was at least balanced. The light mech doesn't get penalized for picking to be a light mech while the heavy mech gets a bonus because it can pick the light mech weapons as well as assault weapons.

Apologies if this has already been brought up and I missed it, but is there going to be some readily available properly scaled terrain offered up as well?

On a side note - I (and some others in a group) are working towards opening a game store, and I would love to have these on the shelves.

 Alpharius wrote:
Apologies if this has already been brought up and I missed it, but is there going to be some readily available properly scaled terrain offered up as well?

There's a huge amount of model railroad terrain much of what comes prebuilt and is really high quality. Pricewise it's typically cheape rthan GW terrain too. Right now I'm assembling a list of differant companies that have suitable stuff. When I have some of the mech prototypes in hand I'll show differant scales shots with the terain to give people an idea of what works well with them.

I'm looking into laser cut stuff but honestly I don't think it can come anywhere near the quality of the stuff companies like Kato put out. It's at a very good price point and amazing stuff.


http://www.katousa.com/N/Unitrack/structures.html

Their modern style buildings are awesome. Robin Fitton has been putting them to awesome use with his Gruntz tables. http://www.gruntz.biz/ He's got a pretty kick ass game too, although it's a bit more focused on the infantry and combined arms aspect.

Here's his Gruntz gallery: http://www.flickr.com/photos/inrepose/sets/72157625970078995/with/5461640223/


.

 paulson games wrote:

 Alpharius wrote:
Apologies if this has already been brought up and I missed it, but is there going to be some readily available properly scaled terrain offered up as well?

There's a huge amount of model railroad terrain much of what comes prebuilt and is really high quality. Pricewise it's typically cheape rthan GW terrain too. Right now I'm assembling a list of differant companies that have suitable stuff. When I have some of the mech prototypes in hand I'll show differant scales shots with the terain to give people an idea of what works well with them.

I'm looking into laser cut stuff but honestly I don't think it can come anywhere near the quality of the stuff companies like Kato put out. It's at a very good price point and amazing stuff.


http://www.katousa.com/N/Unitrack/structures.html

Their modern style buildings are awesome. Robin Fitton has been putting them to awesome use with his Gruntz tables. http://www.gruntz.biz/ He's got a pretty kick ass game too, although it's a bit more focused on the infantry and combined arms aspect.

Good luck with your endeavor. I'll definitely purchase something and see how the game mechanics work out. If I really, really, like it, like it I'll throw some substantial green your way.

I would like to see something new in this hobby. And if it sort of Dakka Grown then more power to it.

Edit: I also like Dream Forge Games as well. In business sometimes you go by your gut. I like what Paulson Games is doing. By July I'll find out what kinds of investments I need to make for the next 6 months. -Adam.

I have a question. will the mech be plastic kits or resin casts? I think I might have to purchase one or two just to build as kits for display..

mullet_steve wrote:
I have a question. will the mech be plastic kits or resin casts?

From 1st page of the thread:

 paulson games wrote:

Mechs will be resin and aproximately 60-70mm in height.

Those terrain pieces are nice - but rather pricey too.

I'll have to see what else might be available... I need a good table full of terrain for a game like this one!

It may be possible for warmill to rescale their pods and other scenery for 15mm scale with minor headaches.....

What I'll probably do is put together some properly scaled buildings that people can print off on card stock. I've built a few which hold up decently to game play and can support plastic and resin models placed on top. Old school metal dreads will probably cave them in however. It's not as cool as nice plastic terrain but they look pretty good for being fairly cheap, a ream of cardstock and 1-2 things of printer ink and you can make a small city.


I spent part of the afternoon getting the first model blocked out. I'm setting up a WIP thread so I don't keep clogging up the News & Rumors section whith stuf fthat belongs in a subforum. When I get a final version of the models complete I'll post them here but in the meantime I'll be using the other thread for WIP stuff.

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/511518.page#5348960

Blocked out profile looks good (although the drum and other box on the far left and far right sides make the turret a tad too wide looking imo). I will keep an eye on the WIP thread

Paulson models will deserve much more than cardstock buildings...

Impudent Mortals did some 15mm or 10mm collapsible buildings for their last KS, might have to look into it.

Impudent Mortals doesn't have a website?

Those models are larger than I expected they would be. Should look really nice on the table.

Hawk Wargames is about to release their 10mm cardstock buildings pack, that may be worth looking at for inspiration. It's certainly going to be a lifesaver for those of us who needed terrain in that scale (as it is very building dependent) but didn't want / have the money to buy resin buildings.

 Alpharius wrote:
Apologies if this has already been brought up and I missed it, but is there going to be some readily available properly scaled terrain offered up as well?

There are a fair number of companies doing 15mm terrain and terrain parts now.
Proxie models (cheap plastic building walls..)
Khurasan
Atenociti's
Old Crow
Ground Zero Games
Sabol Studios
etc...

Tons of 15mm Terrain options announced and sometimes reviewed here
http://dropshiphorizon.blogspot.com.ar/

As mentioned, Train scale terrain can work well in some cases. Technically HO (20mm aprox) is too big, and N (10mm aprox) is too small but often times industrial themed models will be less scale specific than you might think. I've used a large HO scale engine shed with 28mm figs, and 15mm Proxy models buildings with N scale figures, so there are alot of possibilities for crossover.

*sigh* all these beautiful models are work blocked

The stuff I have seen has been awesome, and this will probably get some of my AdeptiCon or GenCon cash.

I doubt it'd launch by AdeptiCon (middle of next month) but I definitely think we'd see it before GenCon (which is 5 months away still).

 RiTides wrote:
I doubt it'd launch by AdeptiCon (middle of next month) but I definitely think we'd see it before GenCon (which is 5 months away still).

Lol, you mistake my words good sir... Cash is tight, those are cons that are coming up in the next year that I'm going to, any money I spend on a Mecha Front KS is cash I don't have for those cons.

Any idea when this kickstarter will hit?

I ask because it seems that every other kickstarter just hit, and Zombicide also wants my money.

I won't have any firm a firm date until after adepticon, so please go ahead and feed your zombie pledges.

I'll give about a 30 day notice before I put anything up on kickstarter, plus 30 days for it to run so that will give everyone at least a two month window if not slightly longer. I have some business ends I need to handle before I can launch things, if it goes as planned it'll certainly be worth the wait.

Impudent Mortal does not have a website yet, but he will soon. I'll post it as soon as I know. You can look at his KS page though:

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1141913215/impudent-mortals-gaming-terrain

 Mathieu Raymond wrote:
Impudent Mortal does not have a website yet, but he will soon. I'll post it as soon as I know. You can look at his KS page though:

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1141913215/impudent-mortals-gaming-terrain

that is... interesting!

I'm also more than OK with print it yourself on cardstock terrain as well!

Nothing but the best for my Paulson stuff. I swung by Udisco today.

Spring break is not a good time to be there. The place was crawling with kids. But the N scale stuff is... pricey. I remember playing Battletech on a battlefield as big as, say, 16 loose leaves (8 1/2 X 11), would we be looking at much more than that?

A 4x4 table would be the default size.

(People can always go larger if they want)

A bunch of the Kato buildings are around $20 for a 4 story building which I don't think is too bad for pre-built stuff, although it's definately more expensive than card stock.

I have enough cardstock building to make a city large enough for a 6x8 table and I probably ended up spending about $100-$150 on it due to all the ink (And likely another $40-$50 on various PDFs) . There was several days worth of cutting and gluing involved as well. I used buildings from World Works which I resized in photoshop which took additional time but worked out really nicely. I left all the balconies and fire escapes off as they are fiddley at smaller scales.

http://www.worldworksgames.com/store/index.php?view=catalog&cat_id=1&genre_id=2

One huge upside of the paper terrain is they can be replaced easily if damaged and are strong enough to support stuff like Privateer Warjacks so they should be able to hold the mechs I'll be making. (although maybe not the quads). They also are light so I have all mine tucked away in a file box on a shelf.


.

4x4 table game? That is good size to start. It is somewhat funny that I am downsizing my boards to that format. I can get more people into the same area, enjoying a game/tournament than 4x6's.

http://store.gcmshop.com/c/114/mdf-series?pagenumber=2

This stuff is gold. Cheap, Big, Many Floors.

Also playing stompy bot on a 15mm ikea is gonna be fuuuuun.

Wow, those do look good. Are you referring primarily to the top 2 buildings listed at the link?

Do you have some of them? Would love to see pics / size comparison shots / etc

 Mathieu Raymond wrote:
Nothing but the best for my Paulson stuff. I swung by Udisco today.

Spring break is not a good time to be there. The place was crawling with kids. But the N scale stuff is... pricey. I remember playing Battletech on a battlefield as big as, say, 16 loose leaves (8 1/2 X 11), would we be looking at much more than that?

Remember also , that although N scale industrial stuff might look ok, N (10mm) scale residential stuff is going to seem small, next to 15mm especially things like doors, windows, etc on the ground floors.

Not saying it couldn't work -and if you're just using mechs, it's relative anyway- but if you're going to use infantry, you're going to notice a difference.

The gamecraft link mostly solved that, though, Eilif.

I'm waiting on two of their 28mm wild west buildings, so I'll have an idea of the quality of their product. If it's good, then I'll go for that and be done with it.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
And their foamboard series are even cheaper!

What will the game style be like for the Bloc and the NorAm? Will they generally play the same but with different weapon options or will they have a unique feel between the two?

As long as there isn't a 65 tons mech with a giant axe to ruin my day...

 RiTides wrote:
Wow, those do look good. Are you referring primarily to the top 2 buildings listed at the link?

Do you have some of them? Would love to see pics / size comparison shots / etc

Actually I don't. I have been trying to find some 15mm mecha to play on them with first. Dug that link out of my bookmarks.

But I do want blow up that ikea.

I'm a day behind for holding my planned "Mecha Front Monday" preview so I'll have to make up with it with an extra piece.


Medium Scout Class Mechs






Plus an extra special Blackfrost preview, a homage to one of my all time favorite mechs






The concept art has been fun but I'm reaching the edge of my inital budget, so I've altered my plans a bit in regards to the kickstarter. I toying with the idea of running two seperate kickstarters.

The first would be strictly for funding color art pieces for each mech (and all sub-variations) as well as rulesbook illustrations. The goal will be to raise $3,500 anything beyond that will be added into the pool for additional artwork to be used in making the PDF. Contributors will be listed as game contributors in the credits, and recieve a special advanced release of the rules PDF and a second PDF of high resolution artwork that won't be made available outside the kickstarters. The advance PDF's will also include files for printing out card stock mechs and buildings, both in full size versions or in half scale.

I'll also be making a special half scale model available for the kickstarter backers. I should be submitting the project for approval next week.


The second kickstarter will be centered around getting the models into production and will offer the full size models as rewards.


By taking this on as two seperate projects it'll let me speed up the funding for the art work and address rules much quicker.


Let me know what you guys think.

Jon

Honestly, I think it's a terrible idea. If you're going to build momentum for a game in a kickstarter go big.

No one wants to buy a rulebook and then wait for the minis to be released. If you have to pare back the initial number of factions to have models produced that's one thing, but from a momentum standpoint, there's nothing to be gained by splitting up the kickstarters.

Besides, if it's a good game, $3500 for the artwork should only be a fraction of your goal anyway. Take a look at the goals for most other kickstarters, $3500 is chump change.

I love those 2 concept pieces! Not sure about the split, it would depend on what's on offer in the first. As much as I love the art so far, I'm here for the models.

Edit: Ninja'ed, and yeah I agree with Eilif about momentum. Would be better to wait a bit longer than do piecemeal like that, I think.

Digging Blackfrost's Heavy there.

I think the split is a bad idea, but what do I know? Whatever you end up doing I hope it is a smashing sucess!

 paulson games wrote:


Plus an extra special Blackfrost preview, a homage to one of my all time favorite mechs




Let me know what you guys think.

Jon

I'm thinking I need to stark putting money aside for the kickstarter.

As for the rules vs models debate: make cool models first, and the rules can follow. See also: GW, Dreamforge, and Wyrd Miniatures.

I think it's a mistake,

1/2 scale models seem to be fairly pointless gameing wise (but still expensive for you to make)

by all means if you need to drop the number of initial units to add art into the KS budget do so (so 4/4/2 instead of 6/6/4 for mech numbers)

I too would say skip the half scale items. Just give you the good stuff. I know my next statement may have some backlash, but here goes... Why don't you hold off on the quads until ou reach a higher ks goal. That would allow you to get more o the smaller mechs out and people to get used to the combat system, then can add the quads later for the really big conflicts. I'd love to see the big dogs get out there, but if you get a good base system going then expand with the larger models, and additional factions then I think you might get further.

Have to agree with the majority - the split would not be a good way to go.

Seems like you'd lose out on the "I want the models, why not get the rules as well" sales and the the "I'm looking for some new rules...hey these models are pretty cool" sales.

On the other hand your first KS has a low goal and could result in your core KS having more wow to it, and getting more backers as a result.

I can't wait for some more info on this, the renders and sketches we've got so far look great, I'm really looking forward to more!

I'm with Theophony on this one. If you have to drop the quads originally, then so be it. I've always been a fan of more, if smaller, mechs.

Who knows, you might be so successful that you get more money rolled into one KS rather than 2.

Couldn't you use your B&W artwork? Let's compare to GW who now offer us full colour codex for a whopping 25$ more per codex... I'd have gladly remained with B&W imagery. Cell shading?

I only tossed the half scale miniature out the was to offer something physical with the KS concept. It'd only be one and not the whole range. In order to test the proportions and detail level I need to get one made and it's much cost effective to have it done at a small scale vs printing a full sized one. If there's mistakes on a full sized model or resolution issues it gets very expensive to print a second one, hence a small test piece. Since i'm having it done anyways I thought I could make a limited run of casts for it.

I can have both elements in a single kickstarter but it requires a larger goal to aim for and also more lead time for the developement end. Continuing to fund stuff in advance by myself significantly slows the process down and hopefully my artist will continue remain available at a future date. I figured people might want a tangible ruleset in hand quicker and stuff to proxy test with but it sounds like most everyone is disliking the idea of funding the art & rules seperately and wants everythinga s one combined release. Still do-able but i may have to revise my time table a bit.

 paulson games wrote:
Plus an extra special Blackfrost preview, a homage to one of my all time favorite mechs

Just so I know my Mechfu is not weakened after all this time - that's a not-Vulture isn't it?

Because that looks fething ace.

Maybe one Kickstarter but with a bit longer on the delivery date?

That seems to be an OK and accepted thing nowadays.

Better a realistic goal a ways further out than an unrealistic one than means you're always late and so on?

 -Loki- wrote:

 paulson games wrote:
Plus an extra special Blackfrost preview, a homage to one of my all time favorite mechs

Just so I know my Mechfu is not weakened after all this time - that's a not-Vulture isn't it?

Because that looks fething ace.

Looks more like a Not-Metal-Gear to me.

 Ovion wrote:

 -Loki- wrote:

 paulson games wrote:
Plus an extra special Blackfrost preview, a homage to one of my all time favorite mechs

Just so I know my Mechfu is not weakened after all this time - that's a not-Vulture isn't it?

Because that looks fething ace.

Looks more like a Not-Metal-Gear to me.

I got the feeling of a Daishi Widowmaker. But the weapon arms remind me a bit more of a Vulture, indeed.

The NeoBloc design is, once again, very aesthetically pleasing. That's 6 out of 6 NeoBloc mechs that I wouldn't hesitate to buy. As for the Blackfrost mech... I was hoping beyond hope that one of the factions would be inspired by Metal Gear REX in some way. Words cannot express how awesome that thing is.

 Ovion wrote:

 -Loki- wrote:

 paulson games wrote:
Plus an extra special Blackfrost preview, a homage to one of my all time favorite mechs

Spoiler:

Just so I know my Mechfu is not weakened after all this time - that's a not-Vulture isn't it?

Because that looks fething ace.

Looks more like a Not-Metal-Gear to me.

You're right, it looks a lot like Rex, though the smaller arms, like Mathieu said, remind me a lot more of a Vulture.

I was thinking Mechwarrior rather than Metal Gear.

Looks like your artist is channeling a few sources with that one; my first thought was a Mammoth Gear from Heavy Gear.
Not to say it doesn't look awesome.

As for the twin KS idea, I appreciate the problem you have, ie you need money to continue, but don't want to launch a project without something tangible to show for it. I think your best bet will be to make it clear that you have a lengthy lead time. Hell, Zombicide won't be shipping till Sept and they get my money at the start of April.

Relic Knights had a 9 month lead time

Kingdom Death had 10 (almost 11)

so folk are prepared to wait for the good stuff

 OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:
Relic Knights had a 9 month lead time

Kingdom Death had 10 (almost 11)

so folk are prepared to wait for the good stuff

That's where I was coming from too!

I think a 'combined' KS would work well - just give yourself enough time to get everything designed, made up, produced and delivered!

 Vertrucio wrote:
Paul,

From one creator to another.

No one is going to steal your concept art. Just put your logo and copyright (and website) above and below so that news websites can use your pretty pictures to help advertise the game for you, without the distraction.

It also means the name of the game, your studio name, and the website link will also be much more readable.

Besides, there's nothing to steal since you're already aping the look of Mechwarrior Online's mechs, which is a good thing in my opinion.

Paulson's probably a little gunshy from his experience with GW. It always seemed to me that he got spooked pretty good and swallowed a lot of GW's BS.

The mechs look pretty damn awesome though, but I'll have to reserve final judgment until I see casts. In my understanding pieces like that can present some challenges. That said, Paulson's products have generally looked pretty good.

weeble1000 wrote:
Paulson's probably a little gunshy from his experience with GW.

It has absolutely nothing to do with that, I don't feel like leting a bunch of kids on deviant art or wherever else start using the images freely when I paid to have them created.

Also please direct any comments about the CHS lawsuit to the proper thread, it has no place in discussions of my new project.


.

I get a tomahawk feel off of it. Sure the legs are articulated differently, but if you put the radar array on top it would look like a fatter version of it. Kind of how I look like a fatter version of a good looking guy.

 paulson games wrote:
I've already been in contact with Mark, he's a very nice and helpful guy. Gave me some really good insights on how to approach this and some leads to check on for production.

Thats great to hear. Mark is a top notch digital designer, and great when responding to customer feedback. Following his lead can only help you. Im liking a lot of what Im seeing about your game, and will be keeping an eye on it for sure. I was so excited when the clix scale Battletech stuff was new, yet so disappointed by the execution. If you can make a good game with mechs around the same size...Ill be all over it.

I get a bit of Gear Kreig feel from some of your concepts...and thats not a bad thing IMO.

 Mathieu Raymond wrote:

 Ovion wrote:

 -Loki- wrote:

 paulson games wrote:
Plus an extra special Blackfrost preview, a homage to one of my all time favorite mechs

Just so I know my Mechfu is not weakened after all this time - that's a not-Vulture isn't it?

Because that looks fething ace.

Looks more like a Not-Metal-Gear to me.

I got the feeling of a Daishi Widowmaker. But the weapon arms remind me a bit more of a Vulture, indeed.

See, I looked at that and thought "modernized MadCat."

Justyn wrote:
On topic, cool looking mechs, 15mm is a turn off though. I play 6mm and 28mm and have no interest in starting another scale. But maybe the figs will be good for 'counts as' in something else.

This. This figs look great, but I have no interest in starting 15mm scale. But as the scale pic shows, if there as big as warjacks I may give them a go.

 paulson games wrote:
I'm aiming to keep the heavy mech in the $30-$35 range if possible. Light mechs will probably be in the $20-$25 range.

I'm going to try and keep the price on my quads down as I don't want anything quite that high in price. But i won't have a firm price on those until I have a physical model to calculate volumes from. Unless you are planning on an insanely huge battle a player wouldn't need more than one quad, at skirmish level they are pretty much your entire force save for maybe 1-2 light scout mechs.

Prices right now are just a guess-timate until I have the final printing costs back and I know exactly how much resin and silicone I'm using.
.

Paulson, ever thought about making a 28mm version and pricing it out, just to satisfy the 28mm fans?

Theophony wrote:
I too would say skip the half scale items. Just give you the good stuff. I know my next statement may have some backlash, but here goes... Why don't you hold off on the quads until ou reach a higher ks goal. That would allow you to get more o the smaller mechs out and people to get used to the combat system, then can add the quads later for the really big conflicts. I'd love to see the big dogs get out there, but if you get a good base system going then expand with the larger models, and additional factions then I think you might get further.

This might be the way to go; start with skirmish-y mechs and move up to the big stuff with later release waves.

--Chris
www.chrisvalera.com

15mm has always felt like it would be a great scale for space conscious urbanites, such as myself.

If I can fit all of the terrain in a single Rubbermaid tub, that would be ideal. Besides, it seems to be rather up-and-coming in popularity.

Now that you say it, it does have the basic shape of a mad-cat, but heavily updated. I could definitely let go of the huge box launchers on the shoulders of the original version.

15mm is the perfect scale for large vehicle combat. It is also very well supported without having a central company that all 15mm miniatures and prices are compared against.

 Valhallan42nd wrote:

 Mathieu Raymond wrote:

 Ovion wrote:

 -Loki- wrote:

 paulson games wrote:
Plus an extra special Blackfrost preview, a homage to one of my all time favorite mechs

Just so I know my Mechfu is not weakened after all this time - that's a not-Vulture isn't it?

Because that looks fething ace.

Looks more like a Not-Metal-Gear to me.

I got the feeling of a Daishi Widowmaker. But the weapon arms remind me a bit more of a Vulture, indeed.

See, I looked at that and thought "modernized MadCat."

I thought that originally, but the cockpit, arms and shoulders are much, much more reminiscent of a Vulture. The Madcats cockpit and arms in particular are completely different.

 -Loki- wrote:

 Valhallan42nd wrote:

 Mathieu Raymond wrote:

 Ovion wrote:

 -Loki- wrote:

 paulson games wrote:
Plus an extra special Blackfrost preview, a homage to one of my all time favorite mechs

Just so I know my Mechfu is not weakened after all this time - that's a not-Vulture isn't it?

Because that looks fething ace.

Looks more like a Not-Metal-Gear to me.

I got the feeling of a Daishi Widowmaker. But the weapon arms remind me a bit more of a Vulture, indeed.

See, I looked at that and thought "modernized MadCat."

I thought that originally, but the cockpit, arms and shoulders are much, much more reminiscent of a Vulture. The Madcats cockpit and arms in particular are completely different.

Not to mention the chin turret like the MW4 Vulture.

Will the real Slim Shady, please stand up? Paulson, come on, tell us before we tear each other to pieces!

... I've been really good so far, but please for the sake of my sanity...

They're called the Timber Wolf and Mad Dog you surat stravags!

They're called "targets" when I shoot them with my normal PPCs.
Vat-scum.

Given Paulson's design method (3d print to resin cast) it's perfectly reasonable to assume a 28mm scale version of all of these is doable. Wouldn't be cheap though, you're talking FW Titan levels of expense.

winterdyne wrote:
Given Paulson's design method (3d print to resin cast) it's perfectly reasonable to assume a 28mm scale version of all of these is doable. Wouldn't be cheap though, you're talking FW Titan levels of expense.

Not if he talks to mark and wgf then we could have mechs and leviathans in 28mm plastic goodness. But I guess seeing how well the game sells and progresses could make the plastic ones later or as a subsidiary.

I'm all for 15mm for a mech game. And I've got Dreamforge already to fill my 28mm needs

I wish it was 6mm but eh - I can survive.

Okay this is one I will be watching it looks grand

rigeld2 wrote:
I wish it was 6mm but eh - I can survive.

Why not use them in 6mm games, then? No one is twisting your arm, eh? Giant robots are a bit more giant? Fine if you ask me.

I think most rules can survive an upscale or downscale of one size (although playing 40K with 1/32 minis would be daunting as hell.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
And although the jump to plastic would be a good idea if he makes them 28mm... I just can't see it as being feasible. Did you see how much trouble it gave Mark to run his KS, and it's probably not fully paid for, and that was for one Mecha. Imagine running a whole gamut. If any change in scale is warranted, I'd go smaller, not bigger.

 Mathieu Raymond wrote:
Will the real Slim Shady, please stand up? Paulson, come on, tell us before we tear each other to pieces!

One or more people in this thread are corect, that's as much as you'll get out of me

It's the artists job to draw from a mix of familiar sources and transmorgify it into something new. The fact that many people can look at it and each have differant ideas about the design means he's done his job well.

 chris_valera wrote:

Paulson, ever thought about making a 28mm version and pricing it out, just to satisfy the 28mm fans?

28mm versions aren't going to happen. It's very difficult to work in that scale, the cost of making the master is insanely high and the price point for each model done in resin would be entering titan territory which isn't good when there's no supporting game they can be part of. (and I have no intention of doing a 28mm rules set)

In order to go up in scale it requires redesigning the details for entire CAD model and that's not a small task.

.

Yeah, I think a few people are forgetting the comparative scales going on here. If most of those mecha are 60 to 70mm tall in a 15mm scale game, they are going to wind up in the 120 to 150mm range in a 28mm scale game. The quads would be almost 300 mm tall

Using comparative terms from another 28mm game, that puts these models at least the size of a Dreadknight and some of them considerably larger. There aren't a lot of games with existing rules including models of that size that these could be proxied as.

As is, some of these models could fill in for large walker type models in some 28mm games, though the cockpits might look a little small. I was actually hoping the mecha might have been a tad smaller, say 50 to 60mm tall so I could use them as a proxy for 54mm tall mecha style units in another game.

 Mathieu Raymond wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:
I wish it was 6mm but eh - I can survive.

Why not use them in 6mm games, then? No one is twisting your arm, eh? Giant robots are a bit more giant? Fine if you ask me.

I think most rules can survive an upscale or downscale of one size (although playing 40K with 1/32 minis would be daunting as hell.

Because they tower over the 3-400 mechs I already have. It's not a matter of up or downscaling rules, they just won't work unless I ignore all the minis I already have.

That said - I'm still extremely interested in this game.

They tower over them because they are so bad-esh, if you ask me!

I see your point, though. Where are those mechs from? Battletech old editions?

Man, I'd give an arm to get my old Kodiak back...

Yeah - Battletech from the 80s and 90s. I stopped buying in 2000 I think mostly because I realizes I could field one of every mech. And multiples of quite a few - 8 marauders and 7 victors for example.

That said, its off topic - feel free to pm me if you want to talk more. Ill drop this while drooling for paulsons next update :-)

Just wanted to chime in that a) it looks awesome and you will get lots of my money, but b) I totally disagree with the assertion that bigger mechs with guns will do more damage. A large laser in Battletech doing the same damage regardless of the chassis is one of the most "realistic" elements of the game, especially as they even (in the canon) boil it down to different companies and manufacturing plants for large lasers. Regardless of what it's mounted on, a large laser is the same.

It's incredibly expensive and difficult to set up arms manufacturing and even more expensive to equip multiple types of arms and then a logistical nightmare to support/maintain/resupply all those different types of guns.

Modern examples include tanks from four different nations - the Abrams and the Leopard 2 and the K1A1 and the Type 90 all using the same 120mm Rheinmetall gun, and the venerable Bushmaster M242 25mm autocannon used on Bradleys, LAV-25's, and armored vehicles in over a dozen other countries. Conversely, the BMP-3's 2A70 is only used on the BMP-3 and is reportedly hard to keep resupplied due to the specific ammunition that it fires and the extra logistics required to maintenance/replace them. There's even a Stryker variant that uses the M68/L7 105mm gun due to surplus and ease of manufacture (the Brits made a ton of them so the USA buys 'em up!)

Speaking of which, don't fall into the trap of light mech = less power. There are numerous reports of Bradleys knocking out T-55's with their 25mm Bushmaster, and LAV-25's engaging and knocking out T-72's with theirs. Mobility is certainly the primary defense for IFV's when engaging MBT's, but they do have the power to put out some serious hurt (especially when IFV's like the Bradley or Marder can fire wire-guided antitank missiles such as the TOW 2 and Milan, which even has tandem warheads to defeat reactive armor).

Anyway, just my 200 cents!

The logical thing would be to have a system where you have your energy weapons, and they have a min-requirement to run, and a max throughput, and the damage output is calaculated off of how much power is available.

So to put out random numbers as an example:
Say you have a Lv.1 Medium Laser, you require 4 power to run it, up to a max of 12, with damage output being 1.5times the power available for it - i.e. 6 to 18.
A level 2 Medium being more efficient, giving a 1.6 output, and a heavy being 2.5 or something. (obviously not a proper scale or anything, but you get the idea. )

Solid Munitions are set values, but have minimal power requirements, with heavier mechs being capable of holding more copies of the smaller guns, or simply bigger shells / missiles / etc that have more stopping power.

 judgedoug wrote:
Just wanted to chime in that a) it looks awesome and you will get lots of my money, but b) I totally disagree with the assertion that bigger mechs with guns will do more damage. A large laser in Battletech doing the same damage regardless of the chassis is one of the most "realistic" elements of the game, especially as they even (in the canon) boil it down to different companies and manufacturing plants for large lasers. Regardless of what it's mounted on, a large laser is the same.

My initial reaction was the same, but without seeing the system he has in mind we really can't judge how it'll play out.
Not to put it too bluntly, but the large laser on a light mech isn't the same as a large laser on a heavy or assault; the heat sinks each one carries play a big role in the average damage output each one is capable of dealing. 2-3 turns of consecutive shooting before needing to withdraw to cool is a lot different from 5-6 turns of constant blasting (hell, the lasers on two mechs of the same chassis can be very different if one has double heat sinks or a smaller/XL engine etc.).

The system could have cooling/ammo integrated into the shooting, could have shooting averaged with a "shoot action" or equivalent being several seconds continuous fire or it could be a single shot from a single weapon etc.

It's time for Mecha Front Monday previews

Here's another variant of the Blackfrost Heavy along witha WIP logo for Can-Oil.

Also I'm holding a sale on my site which wil help me get cranking on the color art. My first finished piece came in last night and it's drool worthy.

What can I say but .....When?

Canadian energy company that becomes a militaristic-mecha-producing-giant?

It's Rayleonard all over again.