Finally; what looks like an expanded room scenario tile called "Breach and Clear"-
MERCS: Recon is a minatures boardgame utilizing the same miniatures from the MERCS tabletop skirmish game.
(no word yet on if these will be metal or plastic,... we'll just have to wait for the KS details once it launches)
A team of 5 MERCS enter an office building and must complete a mission. At the beginning, the MERCS deal with civilians and poorly equipped security forces, but things escalate quickly. By the time the primary objective is reached, the MERCS are facing formidable security forces and an opposition MERCS faction.
Here is the first shot of prototype testing:
MERCS: Recon is a fully cooperative, stand-alone game set in the exciting MERCS world. Recon uses a modular setup that allows for a highly replayable experience.
Players are MERCS infiltrating an opposing MegaCon location. The MERCS team must fight through the tight corridors of the structure, capture and interrogate worker-citizen, find mission objectives, and breach and secure the package.
Recon utilizes MERCS well known dynamic, high-quality miniatures, an engaging fog-of-war mechanic with variable agent movement, escalating security forces, and a tension-filled end game through a unique breach and clear mechanic.
Game setup:
Modular Tiles (several sizes which can be rearranged to form many layouts):
These are of course all sneak peek pics at prototype testing,... so none of these are actual components, and the art is not yet final.
Edit:
Now live and funded,... Here are the pledge levels (you can get just the MYTH content with the MYTH Level pledge):
Thanks! Less work for me to do! Others were getting irritated at me stinking up the Myth topic with those shots.
I have a feeling (and hope to see) this one pull in some big bucks.
I think this has the potential to really do a lot both as a board game and for the skirmish game as well. Wouldn't surprise me if we see some larger plastic pieces (vehicles/ power armor/ robots?) end up as stretch goals as the security teams you're fighting get sick of you doing stuff and killing things.
Not only has this team been killing it in terms of solid, interesting rules-sets, and quality production, but they also happen to be the most incredibly kind people you'll meet.
If money allows, i'll back this for those reasons alone.
I have to be honest, I tried to like mercs, got the rulebook with the exclusive model, but never liked the system, I felt it was a boardgame, I backed Myth because I felt from mercs they can do great boardgames and I feel I was justified, they do make great boardgames.
I feel Recon will take Mercs in the boardgame scene and I believe it will do great for the title.
I wonder if the second edition will push mercs in a more wargame direction than it is now.
All the above said, I have met both Mercs creators at GenCon and I must agree they are great guys and great game developers, I am quite happy to support them on Myth and soon on Recon.
I like the Mercs models and I'm interested. I didn't back Myth, but I followed it sporadically. I'll wait and see what the situation is for non US backers however, don't think I'll blindly jump in.
I got KemVar and ISS (plan on selling the ISS) but never played MERCS. Had a less than pleasant customer service experience and something about them just rubs me the wrong way. Was happy that they were able to get the guy that sculpted the KemVar (best figs of theirs in my mind) full time but I have no intention to support them. I wish them the best of luck in their future endeavors, more variety is always good in the market and hobby.
Supposedly we'll be hearing more about this and what's going on with Myth once one of the main Mercs dudes and his wife have their baby... which is supposed to be due within the next day or two.
You'd think with a baby due you'd have more time to play around with board games and the internet BEFORE the kid is born, not afterwards...
Free time and newborns never really seemed to mesh well together from what I recall.
Well as I have only spent a bit on Mercs, I hope that the KS doubles as an opportunity to get some slightly reduced price minis from the original game. I know KS policy frowns on it, but it would be a terrific "two birds with one stone" if this game's KS campaign could also be a successful relaunch of the core minis game.
NewTruthNeomaxim wrote: Well as I have only spent a bit on Mercs, I hope that the KS doubles as an opportunity to get some slightly reduced price minis from the original game. I know KS policy frowns on it, but it would be a terrific "two birds with one stone" if this game's KS campaign could also be a successful relaunch of the core minis game.
Not to mention, if they do them in Myth-plastic, rather than pewter? Possible?
NewTruthNeomaxim wrote: Well as I have only spent a bit on Mercs, I hope that the KS doubles as an opportunity to get some slightly reduced price minis from the original game. I know KS policy frowns on it, but it would be a terrific "two birds with one stone" if this game's KS campaign could also be a successful relaunch of the core minis game.
Not to mention, if they do them in Myth-plastic, rather than pewter? Possible?
Agreed. I'm soooo over metal minis. I have been painting for years now, and the allure of heavy, chunky, models is gone. I had a moment when painting a plastic Hordes Carnivean, and its metal counter-part in the same weekend, and the metal was just unwieldy, required tons of pinning to get these ridiculous heavy bits on, etc... whereas plastic was magnetized, done, and fun, in half the time (oh, and my Warmahordes bag weighs ten-times what my others do, despite having a third of the models in it....)
So yeah, nice hard-plastic miniatures would suit Mercs as the "armies" are always the same, all inclusive set, etc...
So yeah, nice hard-plastic miniatures would suit Mercs as the "armies" are always the same, all inclusive set, etc...
The MYTH minis are really dense and firm plastic,..... I'd say better than PP, but maybe not quite as firm as the GW stuff. I haven't really worked with them yet (maybe after this weekend), so I don't have an opinion yet on how they are to work on,..... I too am hoping for cross-over plastic minis that can be used in both the board game and tabletop game,..
Really; I can't see how they would do it otherwise,.... if it is a board game,... it has to have plastic minis,.... and that usually means that they are pre-assembled. The way MYTH was set up is a good compromise between typical one-piece board game minis,... and multi-part tabletop minis and bases. I'd be fine if they did something similar here with Recon. (edit - either that,... or they could make a simple round base that would fit into the standard 30mm curved edge bases from the tabletop game - easy upgrade)
I'd also love to see one of the new factions (EUInc, or EIC) included. Here is the EUInc. art (we have not seen minis, so my guess is that they will be in the KS).
I love the style and aesthetics of MERCS and also love the rules for what they are (though a few of the applications of the cards, such as for templates, kind of stretch the concept a bit too far). I'd be up for this if it happens when I have money.
I'd like to go in on this, but I'm not so excited in giving them money before I get my Myth stuff - which apparently will be closer to the middle of the year.
Interesting concepts. Hopefully this KS injects some new life into the community. My FLGS just recently stopped carrying MERCS. Apparently, it never took off, despite their best efforts.
Looks like CCC vs. EUinc. and Kemvar vs. Keizai Waza. The more I see stuff for this, the more I think I will back it. Too bad we probably won't be getting 3d terrain. How cool would it be to have 3d offices with cubicles and desks to fight around?
Not much, 3D terrain really gets in the way of a boardgame, or at least it will go in the table they design, if they design space to have the terrain out of the games way, it would be cool.
Their prototype boards look pretty static. Hope the actual games are more modular. I wonder if you'll draw office tiles as you explore the buildings...
There may be a chance for 3D terrain as some sort of stretch goal/ add on- remember they made the lairs and traps for Myth, which previously were all going to be cardboard tokens.
I'm curious as to what can possibly be included in this. At least with the fantasy stuff you can pull all sorts of nonsense into the game.
I would guess we'll see more specialists available for the heroes, and maybe more fodder for the board? Maybe bigger and badder fodder if the game operates on a threat/ doom track type mechanic?
The main difference is, as you can see the lairs are an inaccessible square, so they can be 3D, the office block has the desk were the models are supposed to be.
MERCS confirmed that there will be some Myth stuff tied up as crossovers with Recon.
Mercs also put out some pretty bold words in a comment today.
Our thinking is along the same line. The competition out there is Fantasy. There is no Sci-Fi to compete with and (in our opinion) no KS right now is controlling the marketplace. Yes, there are some big names... but I think we have earned the right to be called a big name. The current KS seem to be rather slow and the momentum uninspired. And as you said, there will always be competition; right now, however, there is no competition in our genre.
If the competition comes down to the best product and minis, I think we win hands down. If it comes down to the best game, we'll have rules and videos available day one for you to make that decision.
We'll reevaluate over the weekend and make a decision early next week.
All the testers playing the game LOVE it. I think it will surprise people on the fence...our stretch goals are pretty good too .
The gauntlet has been thrown down.
I am excited to see what they've got up their sleeves.
As good as Myth looks to be, they haven't earnt gak yet since they haven't delivered gak yet. Also, being arrogant dicks isn't an especially endearing characteristic...
Wow, that is a bold statement! Unfortunately, that's not what I've heard from people who have tried Mercs... but is this a whole new (improved?) ruleset, to make it a boxed game?
Thinking they have no competition KS running right now, and that the big ones being a little slow (normal mid-KS lull) is an indication something is going badly just tells me that they understand little about neither their target audience nor how a kickstarter typically runs.
I had little interest to begin with, but now it's dropped to absolutely zero.
I think they clearly need to step back and reevaluate a few things.
Bellow personal opinions.
First of all there is Genre competing kickstarter Dreadball extreme is sci fi and boardgame so its competing on the genres of both sci fi and boardgame, there are quite a few boardgames running at the moment and the new SDE announced boardgame standalone expansion, just adds another KS that has a big following tied up, because its a follow up, just like dreadball extreme.
So while there might be no sci fi combat/ dungeon crawler boardgame to compete with, there is a sci fi sports boardgame and an upcoming fantasy combat/ dungeon crawler boardgame plus a few more boardgames on KS to compete with.
And they compete for the limited resources of backers, who are not genre specific and usually mix genres.
So yes, there is competition from both big and small names.
Have they earned the right to be called a big name? no, not really, Myth went exceptionally well, but one can call it a one hit wonder until they have another big success under their belt, not that I am not wishing them to have it, but one successful (with good reviews), yet undelivered, KS does not give a right to be called a big name, definitely a known name, but not a big one.
Its good to be confident in their product and Myth has shown they can make good boardgame rules (and in my opinion Mercs to some extend too) but minis? I am underwhelmed by the above sculpts as I am with most mercs line, while Myth successfully captures their art style and makes interesting models out of it, their Mercs models (almost) never managed it, I do hope they somehow manage to pull it right for Recon but I still have my doubts, the models above are not a good indication though.
Now unrevealed rules, streachgoals and playtesters positive feelings are really an unknown potential, they could be good or not, but until they get revealed their value is potentially unknown and practically zero.
In my opinion, they could wait for DBE (and the SDE v2 to be finishing) to end and use this time to build up the excitement for their own, with art, maybe models and definitely play through videos, their Myth would be in delivery and generally positive mood would be up for them.
@ RiTides
Recon is not Mercs, so the rules and what you have heard about it, is not really significant up to a point, in my opinion though, Mercs major issue is trying to be a tabletop wargame, when it is fundamentally a boardgame wargame.
RiTides wrote: Wow, that is a bold statement! Unfortunately, that's not what I've heard from people who have tried Mercs... but is this a whole new (improved?) ruleset, to make it a boxed game?
The board game is completely different and apart from the tabletop game,... I imagine there may be some cross over with the minis,.. But beyond that: who knows? Also; the tabletop game is a 1v1 head to head war game,... RECON is supposed to be a co-op board game for 2-5 players (no overlord).
The point is,... Any experience that you've had with the rules for the tabletop game may have little relation to the board game.
Mercs major issue is trying to be a tabletop wargame, when it is fundamentally a boardgame wargame.
I'm not sure that I'm following you here,.... You feel that the skirmish game is like a board game? Or you think it would play better in a board game environment,... Because there are no board game elements,... Squares or spaces,... No event generation mechanics through cards or otherwise. Now,.... The RECON board game may very well take things in a direction that could be more successful in the long run,.... But in my mind,... The original MERCS product is definitely a skirmish level tabletop game,..... Maybe the movement cards make it seem different,... But if you had standard movement measurements with a tape measure,... Would you view it any differently?
I feel the rule set and the scope of the game is better served as a boardgame and not as a skirmish wargame.
The movement rules with cards and snap to cover, the essentially 2D terrain environment and the character based army list the card attacks all feel they are ideas that could better served in a boardgame environment, than in a wargame environment.
I've always played with 3D terrain, and I can see how the 2D makes it feel more like a board game,.... But it is much more tactical,... More so than a board game with spaces or squares,... But I digress,.....
I think that the "MERCS universe" does lend itself very well to a board game, so I'm anxious to see how RECON plays.
The good news is that from the comments, it sounds like the rules are already fully baked at this point and that we will get to see them from the start.
That's some interesting rhetoric coming from them.
I don't think the EUinc. figures look bad though. The detail is just washed out. All of the figures of theirs I've seen, and the few I own look really nice and have great details. The only ones I think I'm really disappointed with are the Texaco ones as they all just look kind of samey.
I'll still back this one. If nothing else, I'll be able to get four full teams that I can use somewhere else.
Assumption here, but they should be made from the same material Myth is and probably preassembled, there is little point in alienating the boardgame market they aim for.
Have to be honest Mercs has passed me by until this point. Not because it doesn't look cool, but the 'small skirmish near-future sci-fi' niche has been filled by Infinity for me - and I think that game is very tough to beat when it comes to sculpt quality.
But, if this is going to be a board game, am definitely a lot more interested! Will be watching with interest.
These pics are of the metal minis that have been base coated in grey,....
Agree w/ Psychotic Stom: I'd imagine that they would use the same material as the MYTH minis,.... I have those in-hand: and the plastic is pretty darned good. I'd say somewhere between PP and GW.
now,... there is no guarantee, until the KS page goes up; but in only makes sense for board game minis to be plastic, and for them to go with what they know from the MYTH project. My BIG question is how they will be set up to work with bases? will there be easy cross over with the tabletop game? I would have to think that they would do this (either have them on 30mm bases,... or maybe on a smaller flat base that could easily be glued to the top of a 30mm base for use in the tabletop game.
I hope we all find out on Wednesday of this week!!!!
There is little sense to make a boardgame minis that need extensive assembly (meaning really big guy who would not otherwise fit in box slotting part A to part B) or not been plastic, since this is the expected minimum from the boardgame community.
The minis shown don't appeal too much, and the statement issued is a tad aggressive for my delicate constitution. And as a non US backer there's the potential to get screwed a la Myth.
I'm a bit confused by all the uproar over their comments (in their own comments section).
I would think that every company would have faith that their product is good,... heck, I would think many feel that their game is the best. What is it about this that hacks everyone off?
To put it plainly, people feel the comment has arrogance that is not deserved given their performance so far, especially when directed to somebody else who despite whatever quality issues there might be, managed to get many projects delivered on time.
Should they have faith in their product, sure, but they should not express it that way and on a side note, when people say hey your product is nice and all, but there are many projects that compete for my wallet now and maybe yours could be better with some breathing space, they could listen a bit more.
DBX (sci fi sports boardgame)is a sequel, meaning it has already a following who is already committed, unlike their recon, the SDE (fantasy dungeon crawling boardgame) is again a sequel that has an already committed following and both are boardgames, if they think because their boardgame is a sci fi dungeon crawler that it will not have a vastly overlapping following they are really in delusion.
They have showed they can produce nice boardgame systems and I really like their art style, but in contrast with Myth were the sculpts fit their art style and are good, so far their Merc sculpts, recent examples from this thread, do not convince, I am not sure if their overall product would be as strong as they say and could beat to pulp the competition of two already established systems that have an already committed following.
Confirmed in the Myth update it looks this won't start until they can ship at least 1 copy of Myth to a backer so they can say they've started so the longer the shipping delay the longer this gets pushed back.
.... Both deliveries (for Myth) delay the Recon KS. We were hoping to launch it Wednesday. At this point, it would be foolish. I suspect it will slip to next week.
DaveC wrote: Confirmed in the Myth update it looks this won't start until they can ship at least 1 copy of Myth to a backer so they can say they've started so the longer the shipping delay the longer this gets pushed back.
.... Both deliveries (for Myth) delay the Recon KS. We were hoping to launch it Wednesday. At this point, it would be foolish. I suspect it will slip to next week.
To be fair,... The only quote that came from them was that they wanted to be able to begin shipments prior to kicking off the new KS,.... No one ever claimed to want to ship just one box.
I've seen plenty of other Kickstarters launch a new campaign well prior to delivering the previous one.
I think the idea is that many of the domestic backers would have received an email confirmation with tracking number by the time RECON launches,.. And that the vast majority will have received that first shipment prior to the funding date for RECON.
Why is it a bad idea to make sure you've started fulfilling orders from the previous KS before starting a new one? Besides, it isn't like you need the entire company's staff covering KS updates. 1 or 2 people could probably cover the MERCS KS while the rest of the staff work on fulfillment.
No, I mean they should finish Wave 1 fulfilment before starting the new campaign, instead of waiting until they've essentially shipped 1 box so they can start the new campaign.
1 or 2 people to cover KS updates? How many employees do you think most of these small companies actually have? Typically when a KS starts, the publicity blitz starts, and it's all hands on board/online for pimping their new wares.
It's pretty transparently so they can add "and we're now shipping our previous campaign" in the Risks and Challenges section and point to it when people ask "Hey, where's my overdue stuff from the last campaign?"
DaveC wrote: Confirmed in the Myth update it looks this won't start until they can ship at least 1 copy of Myth to a backer so they can say they've started so the longer the shipping delay the longer this gets pushed back.
.... Both deliveries (for Myth) delay the Recon KS. We were hoping to launch it Wednesday. At this point, it would be foolish. I suspect it will slip to next week.
That's... an interesting reason. 1 copy?
Yeah I was just being somewhat facetious that said they showed a picture of the very first box ready for shipping
So Friday it is busy weekend with 2 ending and potentially 2 starting
Azazelx wrote: No, I mean they should finish Wave 1 fulfilment before starting the new campaign, instead of waiting until they've essentially shipped 1 box so they can start the new campaign.
1 or 2 people to cover KS updates? How many employees do you think most of these small companies actually have? Typically when a KS starts, the publicity blitz starts, and it's all hands on board/online for pimping their new wares.
It's pretty transparently so they can add "and we're now shipping our previous campaign" in the Risks and Challenges section and point to it when people ask "Hey, where's my overdue stuff from the last campaign?"
I understand the sentiment here. I think that it would be great if it all worked that way (that companies could wait so that we have proof positive that they know what they are doing).
You say that they are a small company,.... and I think that is a big driver here,..... They are no longer just a few friends running a side business out of a basement. They are now a full time business; and that means that they have business plans, schedules, rent, salaries to pay, etc.
In the time during the delay of the MYTH shipment; a business can't just sit on their hands (all the MYTH design work is done,.... just waiting on production and shipment). So they have been busy moving forward with a couple of other projects that will release this year outside of KS, and on RECON (play testing, art, video, and all other sorts of Kickstarter prep). They have admitted that the KS campaign has been ready to go for some time,... but that they wanted to wait to begin the MYTH fulfillment (which I think is to be commended)
But, they can't just keep pushing this launch back....... they have schedules to meet,.... cross promotions with other projects,... plans for convention tie ins, etc...
I'd imagine that this will follow a similar path to MYTH,.... start in March, end in April, ship in Jan (yeah,.... estimated)
That's understandable, yamato, but there's a business incentive for them to wait, too- KS1 backers no supporting the next campaign until they've at least seen Something from their prior investment.
I.e. voting with your wallet... businesses listen to that. They'll probably do fine anyway, but I'm not so sure that starting a month earlier than what would otherwise generate quite a bit of buzz and goodwill (assuming the product from the first is good?) is such a smart business move, after all.
Yes, by all means they should have been working on it while waiting for the other to deliver... but with it being so close to delivering it'd odd to push forward instead of waiting a month or so.
At the end of the day, is the "timing" of the Kickstarter so crucial for a full/blown "Kickstarter-company".
They can "push-back" the MERCS Recon Kickstarter itself, without necessarily pushing back the MERCS Recon Delivery (much), and simply have a more polished product (by another week or three) when they do Kickstart it (and thus possibly more to show for non-Myth backers, as well as the good will of Myth-backers). They might get the money a month later, but more of it.
The "but-its-just-preorder" criticism might come up, but that one is rarely heard there days and might well be the lesser evil for them in their current situation.
all good points,.... though I'm not sure how to define a "Kickstarter Company" ???
is that a company that started on KS,... or one that does their primary business on KS?
They have been around for a while with their MERCS IP,.... but only recently moved into other areas. It looks like KS will be integral in their future plans; but apart from the core MERCS products they are also coming to market this year with several others outside of KS (Conflict, Emergence Event, and the MERCS RPG)
@RiTides - I think the idea is that their domestic backers will have it before the RECON KS ends,... so I'm not sure that waiting two more weeks would change things much? by the time Friday hits,... their estimates have 1000 to 2500 wave one shipments completed (all with an e-mail and tracking info to the backers),.... the excitement of people getting MYTH during the campaign just might be a big catalyst for this KS,.... but who knows? I surely do not.
yamato wrote: all good points,.... though I'm not sure how to define a "Kickstarter Company" ???
is that a company that started on KS,... or one that does their primary business on KS?
I would define it as a company where people are thought to be, as you put it, "just sit on their hands", when there isn't a Kickstarter running. The implication is that Kickstarter campaign(s) are critical to their companies finances. If they weren't, they could just do another 6 months (or 6 years) of non-Kickstarter stuff (e.g. MERCS) without an issue.
If there is pressure to have "kickstarters running" so that company isn't in some kind of unprofitable idle state, I would call it a "Kickstarter-company".
I understand the sentiment here. I think that it would be great if it all worked that way (that companies could wait so that we have proof positive that they know what they are doing).
You say that they are a small company,.... and I think that is a big driver here,..... They are no longer just a few friends running a side business out of a basement. They are now a full time business; and that means that they have business plans, schedules, rent, salaries to pay, etc.
In the time during the delay of the MYTH shipment; a business can't just sit on their hands (all the MYTH design work is done,.... just waiting on production and shipment). So they have been busy moving forward with a couple of other projects that will release this year outside of KS, and on RECON (play testing, art, video, and all other sorts of Kickstarter prep). They have admitted that the KS campaign has been ready to go for some time,... but that they wanted to wait to begin the MYTH fulfillment (which I think is to be commended)
But, they can't just keep pushing this launch back....... they have schedules to meet,.... cross promotions with other projects,... plans for convention tie ins, etc...
I'd imagine that this will follow a similar path to MYTH,.... start in March, end in April, ship in Jan (yeah,.... estimated)
But.. using that logic, they should have already started the new campaign. Why not go full pelt on 300-500 per day (their estimate) for 10 days and send them all out (not counting us overseas scum) before starting the new campaign? They've been delaying the start of the new campaign for weeks so far simply for PR purposes. Why not delay it for another 10 days and make all the backers happy? Not to mention being able to ship the base game to wholesale and retail and add it to their webstore to start making actual money faster once they finish base game fulfilment to (US) backers.
If their rent and salaries are dependant on getting cash in quick for Mercs to pay their wages and rent, then they may find they're in real trouble before too long. Borrowing from Peter to pay Paul rarely works out well long-term.
@RiTides - I think the idea is that their domestic backers will have it before the RECON KS ends,... so I'm not sure that waiting two more weeks would change things much? by the time Friday hits,... their estimates have 1000 to 2500 wave one shipments completed (all with an e-mail and tracking info to the backers),.... the excitement of people getting MYTH during the campaign just might be a big catalyst for this KS,.... but who knows? I surely do not.
Well, it can affect how much of a big, healthy start their new campaign has, along with overwhelming positive happy bunny thoughts from people with brand-new toys in the comments with relatively few "Where's my fething stuff?" posts and no need for a Disgruntled vs White Knight gak fight since it sidesteps that situation before it could happen rather than creating it.
Finally; what looks like an expanded room scenario tile called "Breach and Clear"-
If you go to the link at the top of the post you can also see one of the EUInc minis that we have not seen as well as one of the Security Forces minis.
Yeah I have to agree on the tiles - it suited Myth not so sure about these though they look very sparse (or under detailed at least) perhaps they are WIP.
Not sure this is a day one for me more of a wait and see but Myth got me right at the end it became to good to pass up.
I like Keith's art, but I do not like most of Mercs models, I feel they fail to translate his art in miniature form, something Myth has done at a really good level.
Looks like KS starting 3/13, ie Thursday instead of Friday.
Probably not a huge deal, as MegaCon doesn't seem to like Early Bird pledge levels, but fanbois will want to know in order to pledge in the first three minutes. I know I'm still anxiously awaiting a specific hour announcement....
Latest word is a early afternoon launch tomorrow (Thursday)
Higher res pic
Spoiler:
Automatically Appended Next Post: From this pic it looks like each of the base game options will come with two 5-man MERCS squads and at least 9 security forces minis (I'm guessing 3 of each sculpt ,... For levels 1 through 3, and I think the opposing MERCS squad counts for level 4)
Looks like 5 of one and 4 of the other sculpt in the pics, actually. I'd hope that would be an early stretch goal target (at least 4 or 5 sculpts for the security forces would be good) although, of course, it's easy enough to proxy in something with more sculpt variety to it.
Bolognesus wrote: Looks like 5 of one and 4 of the other sculpt in the pics, actually. I'd hope that would be an early stretch goal target (at least 4 or 5 sculpts for the security forces would be good) although, of course, it's easy enough to proxy in something with more sculpt variety to it.
Yeah,... I'm guessing that there is a sculpt for the level 1 security forces as well,... The pics here are place holders like they did with the MYTH campaign (which were later switched out as new sculpts were started)
cincydooley wrote: Looks like the MERCS models are the same as the metals, then?
At the very least it looks like there will be a couple of the new expanded team members included,.... Still no word,... But you'd have to assume they are going plastic with these.
I also see no reason to create new sculpts for the established characters.
yamato wrote: Latest word is a early afternoon launch tomorrow (Thursday)
I assume that's afternoon US so evening/early night GMT
Yeah,... they are either in the US Central or Eastern time zones in Indiana,.... so 5 hours, maybe 6 added to get to GMT? add one more if you're in CET
I'm wondering if it'll be similar to Brimstone in that there'll be a single game pledge as well as a double box one.
I guess we'll find out tomorrow. Where will stretch goals hit? If you buy both like Brimstone?
Anyone know if they have heavier powered armor/ mecha in Mercs? I know most troops are already in power armor, I'm wondering if we'll be seeing any big bulky stuff coming to ask you to kindly vacate the premises of whatever corp you've casually strolled in to.
Anyone know if they have heavier powered armor/ mecha in Mercs? I know most troops are already in power armor, I'm wondering if we'll be seeing any big bulky stuff coming to ask you to kindly vacate the premises of whatever corp you've casually strolled in to.
The USCR stuff is in heavier armor, more akin to the Mantic enforcer armor, so we know it exists.
But there's not any in any of the other factions, that I know of.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Um... Additionally, has anyone been to the new website yet?
Looks like there's a fair amount of stuff in the pipeline.
We've got MERCS: Conflict:
In MERCS: Conflict each player takes the helm of a mega-corporation in the not too distant future. Players attack and manipulate their opponents through political prowess, cunning espionage, economic acumen, and military might. Rolling the dice and executing unique abilities is only one way to defeat your opponents. In the end, the last MegaCon standing will receive all the glory. Are you willing to accept the promotion to CEO?
Automatically Appended Next Post: And Emergence Event:
mergence Event is an exciting new competitive space exploration game for 2-4 players. Each player controls a captain who commands their species’ capital ship. With a unique deck of captain cards, individual strengths, and special abilities, each captain offers players a very different game experience.
Players seek to explore and control locations in the galaxy to gain the resources, artifacts, and technology to prevail against more difficult encounters later in the game. As players explore the galaxy and time passes, encounters become more rewarding, but the penalty for failure rises. Players determine the game’s length by how quickly they move through the galaxy–and how well they manage the damage that their travels, as well as other captains, inflict on them.
The galaxy offers a variety of encounters in which players can control locations by employing six different skills, such as science, diplomacy, or tactics. The best skills to use depend on an individual’s play style and the captain’s strengths. Players can brave open space, random encounters that increase in difficulty as the game progresses. They can also explore discoveries and uncover many stories as ancient and intriguing as the galaxy itself. How well players explore and control the galaxy is reflected in their victory points.
Made up of modular tiles, the galaxy and many of the elements within is different each and every time you play Emergence Event, providing great replayability and unique challenges with every game.
Wow... so I know a big point of Merc, in its origin was that they wanted something that felt like real military tactics, firefights, etc... but I really appreciate some of the interlocking mechanics here... The way "aggro" essentially works... the fog of war from the lowest level "reserve" state, etc... seem to do a nice job of emulating a fire-fight.
I've gotta say, mechanically, i'm already more intrigued than I am by Arcadia, etc... where I have been camping a pledge, but just can't get fired up over.
NewTruthNeomaxim wrote: Wow... so I know a big point of Merc, in its origin was that they wanted something that felt like real military tactics, firefights, etc... but I really appreciate some of the interlocking mechanics here... The way "aggro" essentially works... the fog of war from the lowest level "reserve" state, etc... seem to do a nice job of emulating a fire-fight.
I've gotta say, mechanically, i'm already more intrigued than I am by Arcadia, etc... where I have been camping a pledge, but just can't get fired up over.
Don't know why you'd even compare the two. They're not really even trying to be the same thing, aesthetically or mechanically.
I'm concerned by the amount of randomness in that demo. Chit movement, model reveals, forced rolls during the breach and clear...
It looked like cubicles block line of sight but not movement?
I'm sure the minis will be nice, and it might end up a good value, but I certainly wasn't excited by the gameplay in that demo. They should consider doing another one more focused on the rules than joking about shooting civilians (or at least explain WHY they weren't just slaughtering the civilians, since it didn't seem like it really made any difference.)
ecurtz wrote: I'm concerned by the amount of randomness in that demo. Chit movement, model reveals, forced rolls during the breach and clear...
It looked like cubicles block line of sight but not movement?
I'm sure the minis will be nice, and it might end up a good value, but I certainly wasn't excited by the gameplay in that demo. They should consider doing another one more focused on the rules than joking about shooting civilians (or at least explain WHY they weren't just slaughtering the civilians, since it didn't seem like it really made any difference.)
Every kill fills the threat board, so I assume mass killing civies gets you an oppressive amount of resistance very quickly.
NewTruthNeomaxim wrote: Well it isn't a comparison in the least... I just mean I have finite hobby dollars, and in deciding which to back, I have to go with personal taste.
I'm not down-voting Arcadia... I just can't do both in the span of the same week/month.
I guess that means that there is competition in the same game space for their dollars? Because people can like more than one genre of miniatures boardgame and still have a limited hobby budget.
I'm in the same boat, was looking at AQ / SDE, but have decided not to pick either up. Its now down to MERCS vs Titanfall actually. Do I wanna spend $60 for something I can enjoy now, or $150 for something to enjoy later? Both are equally valid, biased slightly towards the latter actually cause in general I enjoy boardgames more than videogames. But I can't buy both (DISCIPLINE!) and my friends have been egging me to play Titanfall with them.
But damn this game looks goods, getting a strong Infinity vibe from it.
NewTruthNeomaxim wrote: Well it isn't a comparison in the least... I just mean I have finite hobby dollars, and in deciding which to back, I have to go with personal taste.
I'm not down-voting Arcadia... I just can't do both in the span of the same week/month.
I guess that means that there is competition in the same game space for their dollars? Because people can like more than one genre of miniatures boardgame and still have a limited hobby budget.
I have never understood the idea that the hobby audience is compartmentalized by genre. I keep beign told by various industry people " But you are nto really competing with Reaper or GW or Wyrd or whomever..... OF COURSE I AM!! We are all playing to the same crowd!
tre manor wrote: [
I have never understood the idea that the hobby audience is compartmentalized by genre. I keep beign told by various industry people " But you are nto really competing with Reaper or GW or Wyrd or whomever..... OF COURSE I AM!! We are all playing to the same crowd!
I see your point Tre, but I guess the difference I meant was more like this deciding whether or not your'e going to buy South Park Stick of Truth vs. Titanfall, rather than deciding if you're going to buy Battlefield 4 or Call of Duty.
Well, that funded fast. It'll be interesting to see how this one proceeds. Without mathing it out, the pledge levels look to be a pretty good value, especially the $200 "Opfor" level.
Curious about those embossed disks and just how much embossment they will have.
Basically they're just shiny counters, as opposed to the sculpted locations, right?
This should get interesting as it climbs. I thought the funding versus initial stretches was a bit high, but so far they're pretty closely packed together.
We've got the Myth tie ins to look forward to as well.
highlord tamburlaine wrote: This should get interesting as it climbs. I thought the funding versus initial stretches was a bit high, but so far they're pretty closely packed together.
I think an extra $70k for the first stretch goal is ridiculous. I was interested, but this smacks of a fake funding level for the base games. And really, $20k for 2 mini's for the other stretch goal is fine, but not $70k for 6 single pose figures that probably should have come with the game already. Guess I'll let this one ride for the entire 35 days, but I really dislike disengenuous stretch goals like that...
Alpharius wrote: So, if we don't want the dice game or the table top rules, the $120 pledge level looks pretty good!
Still a lot to add-on if we want the 'complete package' though...
I was thinking the same thing. I know I don't want the dice game or the tabletop rules though. Not sure how many of the add-ons will end up interesting me.
Alpharius wrote: Does anyone have any personal experience with the tabletop game, or a review, or a link to a good one, for the Tabletop version of the game?
Long but thorough. It is very much a "board game" at heart (usually played on 2D-terrain) that can also be played on a proper wargaming-table.
Yes, I really like the $120 level. I do wonder what the definition of their "sculptured embossed" damage tokens means. Sculptured would imply a physical model. Embossed would imply pushed into the card. So both would seem to be unfeasable. I do like the terrain add-on, as well as the drones.
In addition the the resculpts of the three mentioned above: the "8th and 9th" members of each MegaCon are included in the boxes,....
The way the tabletop boxes work is that you get members 1-6,... They have since released 7th members for each,.... And members 8 through 10 are yet to be released but due this year.
So expect those two (8th and 9th) to be part of each box for each faction. I'd expect that the flamethrower will not be in fort he CCC, and you can see that the EUinc Heavy, Sniper, and Spotter are not included (likely part of the tabletop starter kit). As you can see, the snipers and heavies have pretty much been removed for this room to room firefighting.
Automatically Appended Next Post: **** $100,000 in 3 hours
I'd agree that the stretch goals seem to be a bit far spaced for the first. $50K to fund and then more than double to get a single stretch goal?
Very much appears to be a number created well after they saw the success of the first few hours. It does not take another $70k to sculpt two new models, especially since they already have 1 in hand.
(I'm still probably pledging, though. Hoping my Myth box comes before the end of the campaign to get a feel for the plastic to insure I can work with it.)
sculpting is one; tooling is another. Also, we know KSes like these have to lowball the funding goal to get traction; they'll have to make up for that in some way.
I dislike how each box only has 2 security forces sculpts where they could have just included all four sculpts, same number of models in each box. Also, having to get both boxes to get stretch goals, some of which should just bloody well be in there in the first place (again, though: funding goals etc., I'm somewhat sympathetic to this), is something I'm not altogether happy with. I might even have preferred a "$120 for both, $75 for one but you do get applicable stretch goals" approach - even though with shipping not being double that for one box, I might then in the end still have pledged for both.
Now, though? It's not really impulse-buy territory so there's a good chance I'll just drop out. ...Unless someone around these parts (so shipping doesn't kill it!) wants to split with me and take the assassination protocol box and applicable stuff - but I'd have to really dig around to find someone willing to do that, I'm afraid.
I'm interested in this 2nd ed rulebook, is it a 2nd EDITION or a 2nd printing with errata included and extra background? It's not on their website, this is the first I've heard about it.
Guildsman wrote: Well, that funded fast. It'll be interesting to see how this one proceeds. Without mathing it out, the pledge levels look to be a pretty good value, especially the $200 "Opfor" level.
The value of Myth went to Crazy Town, so not surprising if this one is already looking good.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Alpharius wrote: What's worse - 'Fake Stretch Goals' or "Widely Space Stretch Goals", which, I guess, could just be a variation of the "Fake Stretch Goal" phenomenon!
I pledged already - just for you. Will you be taking care of the "fake stretch goals" aspect of this campaign for us? I've kinda got my hands full with the "pull my pledge" part.
It just won't be the same if it doesn't come from you
BTW - the dice game is completely separate,... It's been designed by someone else but takes place in the MERCS Universe.
They've demoed this for more than a year,... I think going back to GenCon of 2012. But it is due to release this year.
In that you are using dice to role for resources and then allocate as you act as he CEO of one of the MegaConglomerates,.... Deploy your economic, military, and covert ops resources, etc. I haven't played it,... But they've talked about adding a gameplay vid for that too.
Automatically Appended Next Post: It is supposed to be a head to head game, but you can play with more if you have multiple copies.
Thinking I'll split everything with Barzam. Not sure what he wants, but we both win by getting a game and all the stretch goals for half the price, and he can just come by and pick it up at my place.
I'm sure I'll be adding a few extra pieces before all is said and done.
It just won't be the same if it doesn't come from you
BTW - the dice game is completely separate,... It's been designed by someone else but takes place in the MERCS Universe.
They've demoed this for more than a year,... I think going back to GenCon of 2012. But it is due to release this year.
In that you are using dice to role for resources and then allocate as you act as he CEO of one of the MegaConglomerates,.... Deploy your economic, military, and covert ops resources, etc. I haven't played it,... But they've talked about adding a gameplay vid for that too.
Automatically Appended Next Post: It is supposed to be a head to head game, but you can play with more if you have multiple copies.
nono - I'm still doing the Pull my Pledge thing. Fake Stretch Goals can come from any of about a dozen people - I just want to make sure it's covered - I mean, we have a few nominees for the job already on this page - I just want to make sure we've got it sewn up. Running a Kickstarter is srs bzns, after all!
I gve in and backed at the $120 level. I don't think I need any add-ons, especially since with my Battlesystems stuff coming soon (eventually). Everyone reading this is my witness: I will not add anything to my pledge!
Hmm, I may have to go in for the $200 game. I love the way MERCS handles as a wargame and wouldn't mind a 2nd edition of it, and it would give me most of the factions as well (luckily no overlap with my current USCR force). May also grab the Sedafu mission pack.
But either way, I [b]will not[/i] gp crazy on Kickstarters this year (he says, having dumped $300 in to Mutant Chronicles... you know, just a little pledge). Hmm, maybe there is a Kickstarter offering a goal of temperance and self control? That sounds like something I could spend thousands on!
But yeah, I'll probably wait and see what the tax return looks like this year and try and keep as close to a basic pledge as possible. Starting to run out of storage space.
Buzzsaw wrote: I must say, I want to like this, but the art style of the minis is just really not doing it for me.
Plus, am I not squinting hard enough, or are there really no females in the initial 30 or so minis?
It actually includes several it's just hard to tell because males and females are armored pretty much exactly the same in the Mercs universe...which is actually kinda refreshing.
The CCC faction includes 2...although one (the flame thrower) you'd never actually know unless it didn't say so in the fluff. There should be a few more in the Kemvar faction as well.
Buzzsaw wrote: I must say, I want to like this, but the art style of the minis is just really not doing it for me.
Plus, am I not squinting hard enough, or are there really no females in the initial 30 or so minis?
It actually includes several it's just hard to tell because males and females are armored pretty much exactly the same in the Mercs universe...which is actually kinda refreshing.
The CCC faction includes 2...although one (the flame thrower) you'd never actually know unless it didn't say so in the fluff. There should be a few more in the Kemvar faction as well.
Heh, when it comes to whether armored males and females should look the same, I heed a lady's advice and say "hmmm, maybe not". As a practical matter I find models where you have to be told what they are to be a failure of execution; if that's the case, they they are all women in there, why not!
Meh, they seem to have found their audience in any case, I doubt they'll miss my pledge.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
yamato wrote: It looks to me like 5 of the 20 MERCS in the base sets are female, and the Waza Booster in the $165k stretch goal also looks to be female.
Huh? Where are you seeing this stuff? I'm not being coy, I honestly can't discern much of anything from the pictures on the campaign, are you looking at a difference page?
yamato wrote: It looks to me like 5 of the 20 MERCS in the base sets are female, and the Waza Booster in the $165k stretch goal also looks to be female.
Huh? Where are you seeing this stuff? I'm not being coy, I honestly can't discern much of anything from the pictures on the campaign, are you looking at a difference page?
Yep, there are at least 5 females (possibly 6 not sure about the Keizai Waza Spy) in the starting range...for bigger better pictures of some of the existing mercs included check out the Megacon Games website.
As for non-obviously sexed models...who really cares? Could you really identify someones gender under a mass of all encompassing heavy armor? Probably not. In this instance, Megacon Games gave me a mini "Metroid Moment" when I learned my team's #1 rump kicker was a lady. Kinda cool.
yamato wrote: It looks to me like 5 of the 20 MERCS in the base sets are female, and the Waza Booster in the $165k stretch goal also looks to be female.
Huh? Where are you seeing this stuff? I'm not being coy, I honestly can't discern much of anything from the pictures on the campaign, are you looking at a difference page?
Yep, there are at least 5 females (possibly 6 not sure about the Keizai Waza Spy) in the starting range...for bigger better pictures of some of the existing mercs included check out the Megacon Games website.
As for non-obviously sexed models...who really cares? Could you really identify someones gender under a mass of all encompassing heavy armor? Probably not. In this instance, Megacon Games gave me a mini "Metroid Moment" when I learned my team's #1 rump kicker was a lady. Kinda cool.
Well, being that I asked, I probably care. Snark aside, the reality of female body armor is a bit different then you might imagine. That said, I had thought there was going to be some changes to the models from the current retail product, which does not seem to be the case.
As I alluded to above, the overall style doesn't really appeal to me all that much. Looking at their existing ranges on their webstore, it makes me think of a weird hybrid of elements of Infinity's aesthetic and the style of MYTH. Yes, I know MERCS came first, I just like the style when applied to MYTH, but don't in the sci-fi setting. What can one do?
The thing about the models that I have an issue with is this: the factions appear too similar. Other than color, each of the models could pretty much fit in with any other faction. I like a bit of variety in my models to help me decide which faction/army to invest in.
What a silly argument. While some in the heavy armor are ambiguous to the point I'd never thought of them being females (like the CCC flamer), many of the figures are very obviously female. There's indeed at least one obvious model in every faction: CCC has the unpainted model holding her gun up in the counter threat photo, EU Inc has a female leader, the keizai waza spy, and in the assassination protocol photo the kemvar directly above the "leader alternate" text.
The heavier the armor, the more ambiguous it becomes, but the MERCs stuff clearly draws a distinction among the sexes where it makes sense, and do so without just having pin up girls posing with assault rifles. I think they did a rather good job of showing that the more armored plates you strap on, the more padded layers and the heavier the weapons then the more the two body types blend together. Go look at some pictures of female firefighters in full gear, it's pretty hard to tell em apart.
Wow, I'm amazed at how much money this has amassed already.
Love the idea of a self-contained board game - I wonder if I would be able to get one of the $60 options and fulfill that function?
I really try and stagger my KS stuff so it arrives at different times.. right now this occupies the same time slot as Heroquest, but the box for this game might be useful to hug while I'm crying if anything happens to that Heroquest game before it arrives!
AliceK wrote: Baacked the hell out of this! really looking forward to some of the stretch goals!
You've backed out of this, but are still interested in the stretch goals?!?
As Buzzsaw noted above, I *want* to like this one - but I think I'm having the same odd feeling when looking at the "MYTH" style artwork and yet I'm supposed to be imagining SF.
Also, I'm wondering if I need another boardgame after KD:M, MYTH, Brimstone, etc.
The answer is, of course, 'Maybe!' because I'd love to have a good SF one - I'm just not sure that this is it...
AliceK wrote: Baacked the hell out of this! really looking forward to some of the stretch goals!
You've backed out of this, but are still interested in the stretch goals?!?
As Buzzsaw noted above, I *want* to like this one - but I think I'm having the same odd feeling when looking at the "MYTH" style artwork and yet I'm supposed to be imagining SF.
Also, I'm wondering if I need another boardgame after KD:M, MYTH, Brimstone, etc.
The answer is, of course, 'Maybe!' because I'd love to have a good SF one - I'm just not sure that this is it...
The way I look at the whole thing....
I back alot of Kickstarters, I'm up to 141. Overall the number of times that I've been kicking myself for missing out on a KS is much greater then the number of times I've been dissapointed by a KS that I received. If I back back a project and it turns out to be crap I'm out a few bucks. If I don't back a project and it turns out to be awsome I'm out awsome stuff. In my book stuff is more important then my dispossable income.
Yes, and a $25k stretch goal for card doors. Totally unimpressed. Were the stretch goals in Myth better? Or is this the kind of to expect for their whole campaign? This and the level 1 secfor should have been in the base game...
I fully expect a bunch of those add-ons to show up as free stretch goals. Looking forward to free drone and location minis in particular. Agree that doors are kinda weak, but as usual I'll judge the value a few days before the KS ends, all that happens between now and then is entertainment
Can someone explain this to me though, its from the KSFAQ:
What makes the sculptered embossed collater damage discs (CDD) special? The CDD in the base games are flat cardboard tokens that have uniform information. For instance, when an area is damaged the next level down holds 2 MERCS and offered 1 point of armor.
The special embossed CDD have texture and depth. There are raised and lowered portions. They also contain unique situations the other CDD don't allow.
Emphasis mine. That last line sounds kinda dubious to me. I thought they were just optional vanity terrain pieces, but it sounds like they actually affect gameplay? Not sure how I feel about that. Well maybe they;ll have free ones as a stretch!
Not sure on the CDD stuff,... As to the current stretch goals,... They seem a bit less impressive, but then again we are less than 24 hours in and have now unlocked the first three.
For MYTH; It took a few days ( I think into day 4) to get to the first stretch,... But it was pretty sweet! 10 skellies and two captains.
This one looks like it will go way further,.... So I'm sure that the stretches will begin to pile up,... Hopefully we will see whole new teams as we get higher,.....ISS, Texico, etc.
Automatically Appended Next Post: First three in the bank,... $168k in the first 24hrs
Yeah, it looks like one updated sculpt per faction at this point (not counting the new ones).
I guess we'll see if they entertain any more updates down the road,.... But this is not bad for day one. Nice to see that the new SF2 minis in the next stretch actually have new gameplay content to them.
One updated sculpt is a waste of opportunity, I was reexamining their mercs sculpts to see what really sets me off and I feel the clothing part of the sculpting is soft, it would be a great time to use the funds and update the sculpts to the next level, Myth is a testament they can do it.
Liking the look of this after watching the you tube videos.
Wish the EU forces didn't have such lame sculpts though or at least that's my take on them.
Out of interest how do you get the stretch goals. Do they send you an E-mail offering them and you pay the extra after your initial pledge? Just asking as never done a kickstarter before.
You just have to pledge @ $120 or above and you get every stretch goal,..... speaking of which:
They did update the OPFOR ($200) Pledge to include some nice extras,... you'll get the v2.0 tabletop game cards to go along with the rule book for any force unlocked during the KS including the Sefadu add-on. (these are extras at the $200 pledge,..... at the $120 pledge you get all of the actual stretch goals listed on the KS page)
This is now a smoking deal if you are into the tabletop skirmish game as well!
To be honest I am not so hot on their tebletop skirmish, but the 200$ deal is quite a good one, although the novel is as meh as it can ever be and it seems to be part one only too, I would rather had the money spend on something else.
I will have to add on my criticism on the models beyond the clothing which is soft, the extra long and bendy upper part of the legs, I would really like to see these two fixed, then the models would be good, I think.
PsychoticStorm wrote: To be honest I am not so hot on their tebletop skirmish, but the 200$ deal is quite a good one, although the novel is as meh as it can ever be and it seems to be part one only too, I would rather had the money spend on something else.
I will have to add on my criticism on the models beyond the clothing which is soft, the extra long and bendy upper part of the legs, I would really like to see these two fixed, then the models would be good, I think.
Considering how deep a discount $200 will ultimately be for every factions V2.0 cards, in addition to the huge V2 rules and campaign book... It really is as it the novel and dice game are sort of just freebies. I could do without either as well, but currently $200 is great, and by campaign end, it will probably be downright insane if Myth was any indication.
Love the skirmish game though, so i'm a touch biased. It has that quality X-wing does of resembling my beloved tabletop mini-gaming hobby, but being just that bit simpler so as to be less intimidating to less hardcore gamers.
That is almost irrelevant, the 200$ is a good value, but their only sample of story I have read, did not had me thrilled, the cost of printing a book is always high and the fact it is part one means its not even a complete product.
I would rather see the resources for it been redirected to something else.
The tabletop game, to be perfectly honest the card system, does not have me thrilled among other small things.
More expensive than card tiles, stat cards a model, some scenery or extra counters, in any case something related to the actual game, or the mercs V2.
Most of the above novels you mentioned are autonomous self concluded works that carry over from the previous one, but my point would be that if it is thrown in the kickstarter and their writing is not really established, it would be better to be at least self contained.
If anyone at the $200 level doesn't want the novel, I'll pay you $6 to ship it to me after the KS. I'm not in at $200, so otherwise I'll just add $10 for it. But, if you want that stinkin' useless dead tree book out of your house and a shiny new $6 in your PayPal account, I'll be happy to help.
PsychoticStorm wrote: More expensive than card tiles, stat cards a model, some scenery or extra counters, in any case something related to the actual game, or the mercs V2.
Most of the above novels you mentioned are autonomous self concluded works that carry over from the previous one, but my point would be that if it is thrown in the kickstarter and their writing is not really established, it would be better to be at least self contained.
I think they likely need to order a pretty large number to get these printed for a reasonable price,..... while there has been a lot of noise requesting the fiction,. there is likely not enough to support sales on it's own to justify such a printing,....
So this my be a vehicle to assist them is getting this done. I don't fault them for that.
PsychoticStorm wrote: More expensive than card tiles, stat cards a model, some scenery or extra counters, in any case something related to the actual game, or the mercs V2.
Most of the above novels you mentioned are autonomous self concluded works that carry over from the previous one, but my point would be that if it is thrown in the kickstarter and their writing is not really established, it would be better to be at least self contained.
I think they likely need to order a pretty large number to get these printed for a reasonable price,..... while there has been a lot of noise requesting the fiction,. there is likely not enough to support sales on it's own to justify such a printing,....
So this my be a vehicle to assist them is getting this done. I don't fault them for that.
These are my assumptions too, but an ebook or pdf would serve this purpose too cheaper and more efficient.
Possibly a dumb question, but will the two boxes contain models for the security forces once they hit retail, or will they have to be purchased separately? Have they mentioned if any of the stretch goals will be true upgrades to the box, a la Kingdom Death?
they have not said,..... but in MYTH this did not happen,.... so until they say otherwise; I would think that the Security Forces 1 and the Employees will remain as cardboard counters and that the opposing MERCS force will have to stand in for the Security forces 4 for the base retail version of the game.
If this changes during the campaign; I'll post about it here.
That's pretty damned despicable, enough that I'm rethinking my interest in the game. In fact that's the worst thing I've ever heard of in regards to kickstarters barring the flat-out fraudulent ones. Myth made just shy of $1million and NONE of those stretch goals got applied to the base retail versions?! I can't think of any other major board/minis hybrid game KS that didn't improve the base retail set through the KS and stretch goals. That's the freaking POINT!
I've defended minis companies, even "major" minis companies, doing kickstarters in the past because I think it's a wonderful system for bringing a better product to market. Freebies and masisve discounts are cool, and they bring in the money, surely, but I just want to be able to see something on the shelf at my FLGS in a year that I know I helped make aweomer, and if a friend sees my awesome KS setup I want there to be something still interesting for them to buy. People complained when Sedition Wars had a stretch goal improving the cards to linen, but that's the exact kind of thing I love MOST about kickstarters, having an active hand in improving the final product and maybe having a small say in how it unfolds. Getting a better game out than would have existed through traditional meamns. To hear that about Myth is pretty disheartening, actually
Rhelyk wrote: That's pretty damned despicable, enough that I'm rethinking my interest in the game. In fact that's the worst thing I've ever heard of in regards to kickstarters barring the flat-out fraudulent ones. Myth made just shy of $1million and NONE of those stretch goals got applied to the base retail versions?! I can't think of any other major board/minis hybrid game KS that didn't improve the base retail set through the KS and stretch goals. That's the freaking POINT!
I've defended minis companies, even "major" minis companies, doing kickstarters in the past because I think it's a wonderful system for bringing a better product to market. Freebies and masisve discounts are cool, and they bring in the money, surely, but I just want to be able to see something on the shelf at my FLGS in a year that I know I helped make aweomer, and if a friend sees my awesome KS setup I want there to be something still interesting for them to buy. People complained when Sedition Wars had a stretch goal improving the cards to linen, but that's the exact kind of thing I love MOST about kickstarters, having an active hand in improving the final product and maybe having a small say in how it unfolds. Getting a better game out than would have existed through traditional meamns. To hear that about Myth is pretty disheartening, actually
I know I would be, most people just want the free crap, but my point remains that the KS are ostensibly to bring new or better products to bear, and if you make a million $^&* dollars you could at least throw some of that towards making the game better for the people that missed the KS and are paying you full retail amount for it.
Rhelyk wrote: I know I would be, most people just want the free crap, but my point remains that the KS are ostensibly to bring new or better products to bear, and if you make a million $^&* dollars you could at least throw some of that towards making the game better for the people that missed the KS and are paying you full retail amount for it.
Why?
Those people that missed the KS are buying at retail and get the product when they pay for it. KS backers are forking over their money early so the game can be produced at all.
Not every KS is the same,.... some do nothing but improve what is in the base box,.....
Im sure where the MYTH KS got to allowed them to make nicer boards and linen cards,...... and they did just that.
But that KS also provided gobs of retail product that could not and would not have existed otherwise. Yeah, the base box did not change, but they were able to add four more races of baddies with bosses as well as lots of content that will be available in the first year to market. So there is a benefit to the retail customer from all the ravenous kickstater pledgies. It would have taken years of successful base game sales for them to be able to dream of being able to produce half of that stuff.
Remember adding to the base game means adding to the cost to produce it, and thus adding to the cost you need to retail it for
KD started of as something Adam thought would be in the $100 range and ended up with something he thought would be around $150 (ish)...
Fine for something always intended to be a premium product for fans who would spend big, but no use at all for a game intended to go to traditional retail it's just too expensive
It may well be that Myth as conceived (with the exception of better cards/tiles) was already at the maximum production price point their final sale price would allow
BobtheInquisitor wrote: If anyone at the $200 level doesn't want the novel, I'll pay you $6 to ship it to me after the KS. I'm not in at $200, so otherwise I'll just add $10 for it. But, if you want that stinkin' useless dead tree book out of your house and a shiny new $6 in your PayPal account, I'll be happy to help.
I'm in at the 120 level right now, but may up to the 200 level. If I do, we can work a deal on the book.
OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote: Remember adding to the base game means adding to the cost to produce it, and thus adding to the cost you need to retail it for
KD started of as something Adam thought would be in the $100 range and ended up with something he thought would be around $150 (ish)...
Fine for something always intended to be a premium product for fans who would spend big, but no use at all for a game intended to go to traditional retail it's just too expensive
It may well be that Myth as conceived (with the exception of better cards/tiles) was already at the maximum production price point their final sale price would allow
This,..... Exactly this. With MYTH they gave it the MSRP of 89.99 and they have stuck to it,.... This is why you can get it from cool stuff for $60.
If the MSRP changed to $150 with more stuff or better stuff in the box; what would that have done to the retail attractiveness to the impulse buyer either online or at your FLGS?
I'll agree that I hope that some more minis make it into the recon base boxes,.... But right now, each box has 12 unique sculpts (that's 24 total),.... MYTH has only 14 sculpts in the base box. This is where the big setup costs are in the game.
OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote: Remember adding to the base game means adding to the cost to produce it, and thus adding to the cost you need to retail it for
KD started of as something Adam thought would be in the $100 range and ended up with something he thought would be around $150 (ish)...
Fine for something always intended to be a premium product for fans who would spend big, but no use at all for a game intended to go to traditional retail it's just too expensive
It may well be that Myth as conceived (with the exception of better cards/tiles) was already at the maximum production price point their final sale price would allow
Orlando, I would agree with you, if they were producing the boxed game, and trying to recoup their costs still, as all companies do in the open market.
However, with KS, all the backers have already paid all the mold costs, and so the company has $0 that it needs to recoup for that. So, if we extrapolate that a standard company sells its game to retail for 50% of its retail cost, then all of these KS projects reduce the production costs of that 50% down closer to 10-15%, versus 20-35%, as there are no loans to repay. So really, KS and all the backers are expanding the profit margin for these companies, as their costs are reduced to packaging, boards, rulebook and pennies on the dollar for plastic figures.
Yet then these companies throw up stretch goals of $50k for a single plastic figure, and wonder why they get people that are upset. Especially so early in a KS campaign, as Recon is. Quite humorous. After the $70k initial stretch goal. I guess they're banking on a lot of loyalty backing on this one.
OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote: Remember adding to the base game means adding to the cost to produce it, and thus adding to the cost you need to retail it for
KD started of as something Adam thought would be in the $100 range and ended up with something he thought would be around $150 (ish)...
Fine for something always intended to be a premium product for fans who would spend big, but no use at all for a game intended to go to traditional retail it's just too expensive
It may well be that Myth as conceived (with the exception of better cards/tiles) was already at the maximum production price point their final sale price would allow
This,..... Exactly this. With MYTH they gave it the MSRP of 89.99 and they have stuck to it,.... This is why you can get it from cool stuff for $60.
If the MSRP changed to $150 with more stuff or better stuff in the box; what would that have done to the retail attractiveness to the impulse buyer either online or at your FLGS?
I'll agree that I hope that some more minis make it into the recon base boxes,.... But right now, each box has 12 unique sculpts (that's 24 total),.... MYTH has only 14 sculpts in the base box. This is where the big setup costs are in the game.
Plus, a bunch of those minis are pricey ones from another game, so if you have friends playing or interested in the skirmish game, you're an $8.00 or less deck of cards away from joining them in that game too.
I have a few very enthusiastic local Mercs players, so you'd better believe these games come inherently with loads of added value built in. Doesn't hurt that while games like Infinity or Malifaux are carving out their niche in some part because of their models aesthetic appeal (and they're good games too mind you), Mercs is a hell of a budding system as well, with the V2.0 rules looking to really make it something special.
OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote: Remember adding to the base game means adding to the cost to produce it, and thus adding to the cost you need to retail it for
KD started of as something Adam thought would be in the $100 range and ended up with something he thought would be around $150 (ish)...
Fine for something always intended to be a premium product for fans who would spend big, but no use at all for a game intended to go to traditional retail it's just too expensive
It may well be that Myth as conceived (with the exception of better cards/tiles) was already at the maximum production price point their final sale price would allow
Orlando, I would agree with you, if they were producing the boxed game, and trying to recoup their costs still, as all companies do in the open market.
However, with KS, all the backers have already paid all the mold costs, and so the company has $0 that it needs to recoup for that. So, if we extrapolate that a standard company sells its game to retail for 50% of its retail cost, then all of these KS projects reduce the production costs of that 50% down closer to 10-15%, versus 20-35%, as there are no loans to repay. So really, KS and all the backers are expanding the profit margin for these companies, as their costs are reduced to packaging, boards, rulebook and pennies on the dollar for plastic figures.
Yet then these companies throw up stretch goals of $50k for a single plastic figure, and wonder why they get people that are upset. Especially so early in a KS campaign, as Recon is. Quite humorous. After the $70k initial stretch goal. I guess they're banking on a lot of loyalty backing on this one.
I will have to agree here there is little reason on why the kickstarter savings were not passed in the product, especially since it would be indifferent to the kickstarter backers but would make the product more attractive to future buyers.
BobtheInquisitor wrote: If anyone at the $200 level doesn't want the novel, I'll pay you $6 to ship it to me after the KS. I'm not in at $200, so otherwise I'll just add $10 for it. But, if you want that stinkin' useless dead tree book out of your house and a shiny new $6 in your PayPal account, I'll be happy to help.
I'm in at the 120 level right now, but may up to the 200 level. If I do, we can work a deal on the book.
To address the 'pass on the add ons at retail' complaints. That would still change the cost and retail price point of the game. Just because your initial outlay (sculptors, molds) is covered doesn't mean there's 'no cost' to that additional content for the company.
I see them as being responsible with their product. They knew what they wanted to produce, rewarded the backers that allowed that to happen and created additional content that would have been years away or impossible for retail customers to buy.
Going to jump in here at the new 'Myth backer' level and see what happens. Not super excited about the Mercs game ATM.
I was at the $200 level, but had to pull my pledge down to the $120 level when I found out the Conflict thing was a standalone dice game. I can always look at revising it back up later, of course.
Azazelx wrote: I was at the $200 level, but had to pull my pledge down to the $120 level when I found out the Conflict thing was a standalone dice game. I can always look at revising it back up later, of course.
I stared briefly at the $200 level, but you can get the $120 level plus the Mercs Rulesbook for $50, and skip the dice game. That's where I'm at right now.
NewTruthNeomaxim wrote: Mercs is a hell of a budding system as well, with the V2.0 rules looking to really make it something special.
I didn't even know they were doing a V2 of the rules, so out of curiosity, what is going to make it "something special?"
I know they've looked at games like Malifaux in an effort to make the individual models more characterful. Right now Megacons all confer the same bonuses on their team, which makes sense, but then individual models have too little variance in what they do. So a good engine powers the game, but there isn't a lot of room for tricks.
Having move models always "exactly" one card-length (or multiples) is a bit of a pain. It makes sense in games like X-Wing I suppose, but in MERCS, it always feels stupid when "moving 1/4 inch less" would've made more sense in order to be in cover and/or look "more natural" with the scenery. Snap-to-Cover helps a bit, but it's a slap-on fix for a problem that wouldn't have to be there in the first place.
I know they've looked at games like Malifaux in an effort to make the individual models more characterful. Right now Megacons all confer the same bonuses on their team, which makes sense, but then individual models have too little variance in what they do. So a good engine powers the game, but there isn't a lot of room for tricks.
.... So looking at Malifaux is going to make it special?
Azazelx wrote: I was at the $200 level, but had to pull my pledge down to the $120 level when I found out the Conflict thing was a standalone dice game. I can always look at revising it back up later, of course.
I stared briefly at the $200 level, but you can get the $120 level plus the Mercs Rulesbook for $50, and skip the dice game. That's where I'm at right now.
If I bump back up, I reckon it'd probably be worth going in for the $200 if the extra $30 gets you all the card decks and some extra stuff. I'll have to watch a couple of demo games online. I've already got way too many boardgames and rulesets at this point.
I'm surprised and disappointed that there isn't a pledge that gets me all the recon expansions in one package. Even the $1500 pledge has to add $25 for the Sefadu mission pack.
There has been some talk about adding that kind of pledge in the comments. The developers have really listened to the backers and made changes in both MYTH and now with RECON,.... The alternate gender figs in MYTH was in direct response to backer comments. As was the new "MYTH Level" pledge for RECON that will give you only the unlocked MYTH crossover content from the campaign. If there is a lot of talk about something that makes sense,.... They usually make it happen. Voice your opinion.
Automatically Appended Next Post: With regard to the v2.0 rule book:
They mentioned that it would be 400 plus pages (more than twice the v1 rule book) and would include character run downs on all ten members of each of the soon to be 12 factions (adding EIC and GCC during this campaign). Of course the lore sections will be expanded; and they also mentioned the addition of several different campaign systems.
As far as rules go, they have not let much out yet, but I would not expect the movement system to change,.... but it could, I suppose. There will still be cards for the listing of stats and abilities,... and you can see that the $200 pledge will have a great value as more and more of those decks are added. What they have said is that the rules have been revised. that there are new game modes added, as well as the ability to field two teams at once.
Does anyone else feel the SG gaps are already slowing this down? It feels like they really went to $50k SGs early here.
I'm going to compare this to Arcadia Quest, as they're about the same in price point and add-ons. Arcadia quest had 25K SGs from $100K to $500k, then went $50k up to $600k, and one last $100k SG. Recon is already at $50k SGs, their initial one was $70k, and I feel at the $120 level I'm paying retail for this already. And reading in the comments, 80% of the posters are die-hard Mercs/Myth people, who denounce anyone wondering at the ridiculous SGs and costs, and then you have the Mercs Company themselves saying how awesome their SGs are.
The fact that they gave us 6 Level 1 SecFor guys, when I believe it says there are 10 tokens for them (as the lowest level of SecFor in the game), and then they reward us effectively with 3 per base board game makes me scratch my head. But everyone in the comments section are just loving what these guys are pushing. Am I missing something? Honestly, if anybody can offer a viewpoint, I'm a little baffled by the start of this KS... I know all the Myth backers are saying that was a great KS, but this one is already more expensive, you get less in the board game, and the SGs are both way more expensive, and rewarding less. I am really glad to see that them opening up a paid add-on was tagged into another SG. I hate KSs, like Dwarven Forges current one, that "unlock" a paid add-on as a SG. You're going to make it to sell it anyhow, so why is that a SG?
I'm watching for 10 dollars. Not sold on much yet, a 400 odd page rulebook is unwieldy, A dice game isn't my cup of tea, though not looked into it all. I love the Mercs figs and I have some already, but the news on the previous page that only backers get upgrades is a wee bit disappointing, I like my selfish waste of monies on models to give something back. :-P
Salacious Greed wrote: Does anyone else feel the SG gaps are already slowing this down? It feels like they really went to $50k SGs early here.
I'm going to compare this to Arcadia Quest, as they're about the same in price point and add-ons. Arcadia quest had 25K SGs from $100K to $500k, then went $50k up to $600k, and one last $100k SG. Recon is already at $50k SGs, their initial one was $70k, and I feel at the $120 level I'm paying retail for this already. And reading in the comments, 80% of the posters are die-hard Mercs/Myth people, who denounce anyone wondering at the ridiculous SGs and costs, and then you have the Mercs Company themselves saying how awesome their SGs are.
The fact that they gave us 6 Level 1 SecFor guys, when I believe it says there are 10 tokens for them (as the lowest level of SecFor in the game), and then they reward us effectively with 3 per base board game makes me scratch my head. But everyone in the comments section are just loving what these guys are pushing. Am I missing something? Honestly, if anybody can offer a viewpoint, I'm a little baffled by the start of this KS... I know all the Myth backers are saying that was a great KS, but this one is already more expensive, you get less in the board game, and the SGs are both way more expensive, and rewarding less. I am really glad to see that them opening up a paid add-on was tagged into another SG. I hate KSs, like Dwarven Forges current one, that "unlock" a paid add-on as a SG. You're going to make it to sell it anyhow, so why is that a SG?
You have some really valid points there,.... we'll see if the SG stay at a $50k spread once those next ones are released. I know that they expected this to go faster than MYTH,... but I'm not sure that they were prepared for it to go THIS fast. (at this point in MYTH,.... no stretch goals were yet hit,... it got to almost $1M),.... granted things will slow now until closer to the end. Will they make any adjustments so that the stretch achievement does not slow down too much,... we'll see.
As far as what's in the stretches,.... nothing spectacular so far,... but the two characters per stretch were nice! I think once we get down the line,.. the abundance of stuff will turn this into an embarrassment of riches maybe even more so than MYTH was. To your comment of less stuff for more,.... it is a couple less minis (40 vs the 42 of MYTH) in the base box,... but there are more unique sculpts (24 vs 15 for MYTH),... and two separate games. The price point seems reasonable.
Also,.... the MYTH stretches were just a steady 25k spread,.... the Recon ones have been mixed up quite a bit,.... so we'll have to see how this plays out.
so far,... the gaps have been:
25k, 20k, 20k, 15k, 25k, 25k, 50k
I recall, that when there was a similar gap in the MYTH goals,... the natives got restless in the comments,... and they ended up adding another one,.....
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Sining wrote: I'm thinking the SGs are really slow too. I looked at this again after a few days and I'm surprised there was only so few things unlocked.
again,.... this is all perspective: MYTH took 4 days to unlock 1 SG,... this will unlock 6 in the first 4 days. the gaps have not really been that different.
I'm really going to have to look into how 'tabletop MERCS' works, because while I was mildly interested, I'm now much less so after reading about how movement works...
Alpharius wrote: I'm really going to have to look into how 'tabletop MERCS' works, because while I was mildly interested, I'm now much less so after reading about how movement works...
it is a totally different animal,..... once you get you head around it; it is a lot of fun. You are really rewarded for good tactics.
It is so unlike most other TT games,.... there are no uber weapons, or skills for the most part,.... no wiz-bang abilities like in WM,.... you can't just sit and shoot like with some 40K armies.
If you camp,... you will lose,... it is about suppression, movement, etc...... about out maneuvering your opponent.
the two things that will get complaints are:
- Moving with cards
- Random activation sequence
I understand the issues that people have,.... but you can move less than a card length (I think that will be cleared up in the new rules) and you can use the card edge to measure too,... so there is no reason that you can't use a similar template or tape measure to move (just cut a stick to about 3 3/4" and use it for each Movement Point)
On the activation side,... the Bounding mechanic is specifically designed to address this,... and a few models have some special abilities that can change it as well.
Bounding is like giving your buddy cover,.... you wait for them and then you get extra movement (like asking for cover so you can dash across a gap). I think it works really well (but I am a big fan,... so take it for what it's worth)
I can tell that you're a MERCS SUPERFAN, so, no worries there!
Given that I like what I see so far, and that I'll be MORE than on emy way to a 'tabletop' MERCS army or two once this KS is done, it is *almost* a no-brainer to get the rulebook too...
yamato wrote: Also,.... the MYTH stretches were just a steady 25k spread,.... the Recon ones have been mixed up quite a bit,.... so we'll have to see how this plays out.
so far,... the gaps have been:
25k, 20k, 20k, 15k, 25k, 25k, 50k
I recall, that when there was a similar gap in the MYTH goals,... the natives got restless in the comments,... and they ended up adding another one,.....
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Sining wrote: I'm thinking the SGs are really slow too. I looked at this again after a few days and I'm surprised there was only so few things unlocked.
again,.... this is all perspective: MYTH took 4 days to unlock 1 SG,... this will unlock 6 in the first 4 days. the gaps have not really been that different.
Well, the first SG was 70k, but that is digressing. Your other points are very valid, except on the Level 1 SecFor tokens. Under the box contents, it says there are 11 Level 1 SecFor tokens in each game box. So no, these aren't just "extra" guys. They are the lowest level of SecFor, and I'm supposed to be happy with 6, when one box game thinks I could need as many as 11...
In response to Alph and Yamato's conversation:
Yes, if I go in for this, I think I'd get the rulebook/cards too, why not use these forces for tht TT game. Looks fun, just wish they'd let you swap out the dice game for some of the expansion boxes...
Incidentally, I've always found the movement system to be the most interesting part of MERCS. In a way it is kind of a "fog of war" mechanic that reduces the complete godlike control players have over their pieces, but it does it without clumsy information obfuscation (such as not allowing pre-measuring). Spending a full movement is basically a sprint for cover or at the very least trying to make good distance. Unlike most minis games where movement represents a cautious advance (that is more what snap-to-cover is for) this means you build up a bit of momentum when doing it, and because you aren't controlling your guy's leg muscles directly, it is possible you may pop the movement point and find that your only movment options shoot you past cover (though the snap to cover mechanic allows you to "correct" a bit and get to nearby stuff.
This makes control and positioning near cover quite important because it makes movement much more flexible. If you are stuck in the open with nothing to snap to, you need to book it to some kind of solid cover to get the freedom to make small, more cautious moves.
So manoeuvre and position are really important because the movement system needs to be gamed a bit in order for it not to screw you over.
What this ends up also doing is it makes the timescale of MERCS feel more compressed and frenetic. In most wargames, the timescale feels fairly leisurely with models making large, cautious advances and shooting actions representing whole rounds of fire. In MERCS it feels like you are playing a running gunfight that plays out in the space of a minute or two (maybe less) because movement has momentum, most models require some actual time to set up and fire (only some classes of model can hip fire) and overall turns just feel so cramped. It takes some getting used to, but the limitations end up leading play in a cool direction and give things a much different feel.
It is a very, very different animal than most small skirmish games.
That said... while I love the cards for movement and some range measurment, I hope they revise how shooting templates work because creating weird card amalgams for some of the firing diagrams is really annoying for 3D terrain (which I recommend, 2D mats just lose something). Basically, I hope Recon allows them to shuffle the more board game centred stuff to that side and injects a bit more traditional war game conceits over to MERCS proper (more support for 3D terrain and proper templates/firing diagrams mostly). Using the cards for everything is interesting, but the second more than one is required for a task they become unwieldy.
But the basic action economy is one of the most interesting I've seen in a while (and this is before getting in to how much I love the feel of the combat system). And of course, the army-creation system is one of the most elegant systems I've ever had the pleasure to play. It makes playing quick pick-up games with different force combinations and zero prep time really easy.
I will say that they may have won the award for "most intemperate reply" with this little number from the MYTH comments (people were upset that the MYTH crossover models required going in for Recon);
MERCS Miniatures 1 day ago
Too much bile here for me. I will only respond to the comment about Recon standing on its own....you mean the one that made 185k in two days (without a single whiff of Myth)? Come now. This is silly.
I don't want you to get Recon if you don't want it to play it. It happens to be a GREAT game. Whatever pressure you put on yourself to have everything has nothing to do with us. We are offering winks and nods to people who buy all our stuff.
And finally, the Trickster was a KS exclusive. Unless MERCS players joined they didn't get it.
In fairness, this fit of pique only lasted about a day until they reversed course completely and made a MYTH backer pledge.
Well, you don't really expect them to not want peoples money. I agree with their statement, but money overcame their viewpoint. Understandable, especially with the noticeable slow down after the blistering first day. However, I don't know how many total backers they are going to get with this one. This is a much different game than Myth, both in boardgame style and obviously genre.
Are the people who currently play Mercs getting in on this? Does having more figures for the TT do anything for you?
Hard to take that without the context of what was being said,.... But, yeah,... It was cool to offer the MYTH content pledge for those that thought they were trying to "force" them to buy something that they did not want.
Salacious Greed wrote: Well, you don't really expect them to not want peoples money. I agree with their statement, but money overcame their viewpoint. Understandable, especially with the noticeable slow down after the blistering first day. However, I don't know how many total backers they are going to get with this one. This is a much different game than Myth, both in boardgame style and obviously genre.
Are the people who currently play Mercs getting in on this? Does having more figures for the TT do anything for you?
Dunno.
I really liked the MYTH game-play demos, the simple play boards the player-character "card decks", the Darkness threat level. But I have enough fantasy dungeon crawlers to last me a while.
I look at MERCS Recon, the beta rules, the (horrible) game play videos, and it has none of that sort. The whole agent movement, the "frame", the "blood/action tracer", command pool, etc., all feels very clunky and not nearly as fluid and organic as MYTH.
TT is an add-on,but really I am a bit underwhelmed by the bits I've seen from the game.
I loved what I saw (and still see and hear) about MYTH gameplay, but was put off by the done-to-death-generic-theme. MERCS Recon has the theme I want, but none of the game-play elegance (as far as I can see) of MYTH.
Alpharius wrote: I'm really going to have to look into how 'tabletop MERCS' works, because while I was mildly interested, I'm now much less so after reading about how movement works...
it is a totally different animal,..... once you get you head around it; it is a lot of fun. You are really rewarded for good tactics.
It is so unlike most other TT games,.... there are no uber weapons, or skills for the most part,.... no wiz-bang abilities like in WM,.... you can't just sit and shoot like with some 40K armies.
If you camp,... you will lose,... it is about suppression, movement, etc...... about out maneuvering your opponent.
the two things that will get complaints are:
- Moving with cards
- Random activation sequence
I understand the issues that people have,.... but you can move less than a card length (I think that will be cleared up in the new rules) and you can use the card edge to measure too,... so there is no reason that you can't use a similar template or tape measure to move (just cut a stick to about 3 3/4" and use it for each Movement Point)
On the activation side,... the Bounding mechanic is specifically designed to address this,... and a few models have some special abilities that can change it as well.
Bounding is like giving your buddy cover,.... you wait for them and then you get extra movement (like asking for cover so you can dash across a gap). I think it works really well (but I am a big fan,... so take it for what it's worth)
And yet, randomized initiative is something you can mitigate with "hold" orders, so it is a tactical choice, not something they failed to consider.
Not sure,... They said that there are special rules for them,..
I'd imagine that if you play it right that they would help you,... But don't hit them with a reserve action, or with collateral damage,..... Then McClane is coming for you
It sounded like they had this planned all along. I'm sure they expected the slowdown,... every campaign that has a following launches big and then settles in for the haul until the last big push.
They seem to have lots of cools stuff in the hopper,.... I am very happy to see that some of these mission packs are going to free via the stretch goals,... I was worried that they might all be add-ons.
The value is looking pretty good @400k which is it sure to go past. (Mini count will be at 75 at that point)
Automatically Appended Next Post: They are also back to 4 goals per $100k (even if the spacing is a little weird)
Automatically Appended Next Post: ALSO: there was a hint in this last update that these new unlocked team members would be added to the base set boxes,.... but I'm waiting on full confirmation still.
I think part of the issue is also because the additional minis aren't....inspiring to say the least. At least with MYTH you got new monsters that looked decent and cool. In this, I get ... some guys with gun a door, and 4 white-collar guys... Uh...kay... It just feels like a bit of a letdown.
It certainly seems like it doesn't it? I was just looking at Myth again for the SG comparisons and there was a LOT of difference. In Myth, they give you 10 minions and 2 captains as the very first SG and keep giving from there. Here...we get 4 guys. With guns.
Did the Myth KS have a pledge manager? I really want the $120 pledge, but it just isn't happening this month. I am holding at $10, though, in the hopes for a pledge manager.
I also sent them some questions last week through KS and they never responded. Is that typical for them?
As far as I can tell Recon seems to be doing alright funding wise, what am i missing?
Checking kicktraq it seems to have settled into +20K$ pledges per day after the intitial 2 days.
Now this won't last, but using some guestimates:
- Currently at 250K
-10 K$ average for the next 28 days, adds 280K
- And then the last three days see another 150K$
Resulting in 680K$, with the potential of a lot more if this really takes of.
A nice chunk of change:-)
Or do you think they are expecting it to hit a couple of million?
Sining wrote: It had a pledge manager. Can't remember if you can add base pledges to it though or just the add-ons.
They did have the option to add on full pledge levels. I know because I added a Captain pledge for a friend (it was supposed to be a Christmas present.) I don't know if they'll do that again this time.
I am positive they thought that since Myth who was a new product from a company who was not really known for their fantasy dungeon crawling boardgames went that goo, Recon, who is a game based on their prime IP who is showcased so many years, has a following and has been hiped among their community would do at least (twice?) better.
Problem is for once they lost the impetus of the initial funding to make the product an irresistible offer, secondly, while Myth sculpts were really good and fit their art style, the Merc Sculpts are not on the same level, the EU sculpts which ARE new plus most of their old sculpts leave much to be desired, in an odd way, the few opfor sculpts are far better sculpts than the MERC sculpts, finally the nature of it will not skyrocket the model count, by much to brink attraction by seer mass.
Sining wrote: I think part of the issue is also because the additional minis aren't....inspiring to say the least. At least with MYTH you got new monsters that looked decent and cool. In this, I get ... some guys with gun a door, and 4 white-collar guys... Uh...kay... It just feels like a bit of a letdown.
As someone who enjoys modern/near future gaming, I'll take the white collar guys and guys with guns over monsters any day of the week.
BobtheInquisitor wrote: Did the Myth KS have a pledge manager? I really want the $120 pledge, but it just isn't happening this month. I am holding at $10, though, in the hopes for a pledge manager.
I also sent them some questions last week through KS and they never responded. Is that typical for them?
They have indicated that they will outsource the pledge manager this time,... So the ability to add to you pledge is unlikely, though not yet decided.
I would try again, perhaps via email. They have several people logging into KS and are mostly answering questions via the comments section at this point. They are supposed to complete wave one domestic shipments of MYTH this week,... So they have also been quite busy.
They have a history of good communication and customer service.
Automatically Appended Next Post: For those thinking that this is much slower than MYTH? Perhaps you are just remembering the end of MYTH,..... At a comparable point to now; MYTH was only just past $50k and averaging about 6k/day. Recon is five times bigger at this point and doing about four times more per day. Who knows where it goes,.... But it is well on track to hit more that MYTH
yamato wrote: For those thinking that this is much slower than MYTH? Perhaps you are just remembering the end of MYTH,..... At a comparable point to now; MYTH was only just past $50k and averaging about 6k/day. Recon is five times bigger at this point and doing about four times more per day. Who knows where it goes,.... But it is well on track to hit more that MYTH
I really think the only they are comparing between Recon and Myth are what they gave away. This, while higher money wise, hasn't given away the same amounts of stuff in its SGs.
I believe they thought this was going to be a runaway success, and the first 2 days reinforced that. Then, their lackluster SGs have really kept a lot of people away. I know people are wanting guys with guns and that kind of stuff, but better/more interesting/more numbers wise is what a lot of people were expecting after the Myth KS. They have a lot of days to go til the end, but we've only added 4 Mercs to the base 2 games. They haven't added any to the add-on packs. We've got 6 SecFor and 4 workers, and we're $215k past funding. For me, the SGs haven't made this a 'continue to fund' game right now. They keep saying that "dynamic and awesome" SGs are just around the corner, coming up. Well, we keep rounding corners and keep getting disappointing SGs.
Also, I have no problem with these, but don't "get" the dog and Myth crossovers. I'm glad they are throwing the Myth crowd a bone, but do I really need a Merc that looks Mythy? Totally make the Myth guys a hero that unlocks at that SG, but make Recon something cool and future looking...
You know a major difference? The vast majority of the sculpts in Recon are the heroes. The majority of the sculpts in Myth were bad guys.
It seems like the game does not change with the new additions, because the enemy has stayed the same the entire time. Where's the variety? In missions. Which could be freely downloaded if need be.
Now, ironically, I'm actually getting interested because of the opposition forces from the game; ones that I can use in other games. The MERCS models do next to nothing for me and the game itself is not that attractive to me either.
The variety is also in the mix of 'heroes' you apply to the mission/OPFOR. Different factions and different squad make up within each faction offer quite a bit of variety.
CptJake wrote: The variety is also in the mix of 'heroes' you apply to the mission/OPFOR. Different factions and different squad make up within each faction offer quite a bit of variety.
That really isn't any different than Myth. In Recon there are 6 possible teams right now (two from each base game, Add-On options for Sefadu and Texico). In Myth, there are 8 possible heroes (and a possible 9th from Recon) giving a wide variety of play options for the Hero group.
But since you go in with a 5 man team, and the base teams have 7 possible members right now (if known stretch goals are met), you have more variety. As the number of possible members per team rises, so does the variety.
I don't know to be honest, cardboard doors as streachgoal is lackluster they could offer to make doors plastic as a streachgoal, add more poses to the grunts, make the solo boards, but all these went to "add ons" not really thrilled, the expansion pack as streachgoal is quite interesting, but I feel all should have been like that, the amount of gap between the texico streachgoal is the same as the amount of the game needed to be founded and you get half a game as add on purchase.
yamato wrote: For those thinking that this is much slower than MYTH? Perhaps you are just remembering the end of MYTH,..... At a comparable point to now; MYTH was only just past $50k and averaging about 6k/day. Recon is five times bigger at this point and doing about four times more per day. Who knows where it goes,.... But it is well on track to hit more that MYTH
I really think the only they are comparing between Recon and Myth are what they gave away. This, while higher money wise, hasn't given away the same amounts of stuff in its SGs.
I guess it is all a matter of perspective,..... it is tough to compare one to the other because this game is not about encountering fast numbers of enemies,... I know that there are more types yet to come,.. and the ones that they have added all ready are said to play differently in the game.
MYTH is a tough act to follow,... when I look at other similar mini-centric board games that have been on KS,... this seems like it is still a good value. and I think it is due to the number of sculpts that are required. if you look at something like Z-cide 2,.... it basically gave one or two of a single sculpt for each SG (I didn't follow it,... but were people complaining that there was not enough stuff in that one? Arcadia Quest,... alternated between token upgrades and single hero figures,..
Also I suspect that a number of potential backers are waiting for their Myth shipments to arrive either to check the quality, or because they don't like backing a 2nd project until the first arrives)
(those that would back anyway have already done so)
and I suspect running the KS is probably negatively effecting the shipping rate for myth
I asked about no ads yet,... and they said that they were supposed to begin today. There has basically been no ads anywhere up to this point (just a few stories on Beast of War).
Hopefuly ads will drive some more traffic to the BGG page, adn thereby the KS page.
I don't think it changed the shipping much,... if anything, I think it is the other way around. They said that one person would be handling e-mails and comments, and the others would all be in the wharehouse packing boxes.
OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote: Also I suspect that a number of potential backers are waiting for their Myth shipments to arrive either to check the quality, or because they don't like backing a 2nd project until the first arrives)
(those that would back anyway have already done so)
highlord tamburlaine wrote: Thank goodness mine's out for delivery today, and I've got the afternoon cleared and the kids are both done with their homework ahead of time!
Nya nya nya nya nya!
Mine was supposed to be here last week, but they sent it to Oregon instead of Ohio.
I've gotta say i'm really happy with Myth. I received my copy early, and am genuinely happy with the final product. I'm not sure the rules, as they stand, are exactly what I hoped, but the production itself is wonderful, which is much of why I was backing in the first place.
I'm also digging the material for the minis, and if this Recon KS does nothing more than get the entire Mercs table-top line in the same material, i'll be a very happy camper. As it stands, the "Mission Packs" are essentially already a Mercs faction starter, minus dice, at 60% discount if you're already getting their cards by sitting at the $200 pledge-level, so i'll gladly fill out my collection at that pricing IF they indeed are using the same production values/materials as the Myth stuff.
Oh, and random aside... I love the little sack of metal counters Myth came with. They feel good, are weighty, and generic enough that i'll end up using them for a bunch of different games.
I think I, like many others, expected a Warhammer Quest-alike, with the emphasis on permanent gear, upgrades, progression, etc... Then you realize its much more a "sandbox" game where you play as you see fit, do what you want, etc... with not a lot of guidance from the game. Its much less an "RPG played on tiles without a DM" than I expected, which might make the failing mine, but I know a few others felt similarly.
Also, the rules are in decent need of a rewrite. I know Brian Shotton was an English Major, etc... but as someone who makes a living writing, and who has done so editing, I guarantee you that no one experienced at either had a hand in the organization/flow of this book. :-p
Hmm, that's interesting re: sandbox (I haven't really seen a game like that) and disappointing re: rewrite (I've seen far too many good looking games with poor rules)
I think I, like many others, expected a Warhammer Quest-alike, with the emphasis on permanent gear, upgrades, progression, etc... Then you realize its much more a "sandbox" game where you play as you see fit, do what you want, etc... with not a lot of guidance from the game. Its much less an "RPG played on tiles without a DM" than I expected, which might make the failing mine, but I know a few others felt similarly.
Also, the rules are in decent need of a rewrite. I know Brian Shotton was an English Major, etc... but as someone who makes a living writing, and who has done so editing, I guarantee you that no one experienced at either had a hand in the organization/flow of this book. :-p
Ouch. I'd say that your comments were a red flag for me, but "red flag" just seems inadequate. A rulebook that hasn't been looked over by a professional editor? Are you kidding? I don't care if the game shipped with a literal ton of models; there's no way I'm shelling out money for such a product. It bodes poorly for Myth, and even more so for Recon.
At this point I've pretty much resigned myself to the reality that game companies see no pressing need to have their books edited by anyone actually deserving of the title "Editor".
I think I, like many others, expected a Warhammer Quest-alike, with the emphasis on permanent gear, upgrades, progression, etc... Then you realize its much more a "sandbox" game where you play as you see fit, do what you want, etc... with not a lot of guidance from the game. Its much less an "RPG played on tiles without a DM" than I expected, which might make the failing mine, but I know a few others felt similarly.
Also, the rules are in decent need of a rewrite. I know Brian Shotton was an English Major, etc... but as someone who makes a living writing, and who has done so editing, I guarantee you that no one experienced at either had a hand in the organization/flow of this book. :-p
Ouch. I'd say that your comments were a red flag for me, but "red flag" just seems inadequate. A rulebook that hasn't been looked over by a professional editor? Are you kidding? I don't care if the game shipped with a literal ton of models; there's no way I'm shelling out money for such a product. It bodes poorly for Myth, and even more so for Recon.
The beta rulebook for recon is on the ks page if you'd like to check it out. Didn't stand out as being terrible to me, but maybe needs more examples and better explainations which you'd hope were in the final product.
Oh yeah, I find the only place anything coherent can be found is in responses to specific updates- the global comments section is always a mess on big projects.
The lack of editing is cause for concern for me as well. It shows me that they cut corners to save costs and time. With as much money as they made there is no reason they could not have hired a real editor.
Corporate Police Prototype: CPP-1
8 comments Like 16 likes
We have what we call flexible stretches that are thought up long ago and stored for down time in the KS.
This is the first.
The CPP-1 is the newest form of cost efficient security protection for MegaCon. Now even if a Security Force is forcibly separated from his contact, he can still complete his enlistment.
Our gift to you for a fantastic first five days. Enjoy!
primalexile, It depends how much- I generally find gaming books from most companies to have embarrassing errors compared to other books. Poor editing, vs. poor editing for a gaming book, is a distinction worth establishing.
drazz wrote: Am I the only one that is turned off by KS's that have an extremely large number of comments? Especially when the comments are completely off topic?
Recon had over 400 comments in the last 24 hours. I tried reading through part of it and was inundated by personal messages between KS backers.
Comments like that drive me crazy too. Mantic KS projects seem to attract a lot of that to the point they can be unreadable unless you enjoy whatever inside joke they are beating to death.
Well, i've already messaged them asking that they add the model as a prospective "add-on" item as well, because I NEED two of them. I'm a huge fanboy, and absolutely must paint up a Tactical 2014 Robocop in black, and a classic "Blue Steel". ;-)
I agree. That is a cool concept, and hope the model looks that good. But not sure that it can help overcome these really weak, poorly spaced SGs.
They will probably summon more flexible streachgoals if the pace doesn't catch up.
Weak and poorly spaced does not cover it TBH, need 50k to fund two complete boxes with two merc forces ectr ectr (plus the option to buy an upgrade pack), 50K streachgoal, you get the privilege to buy an upgrade pack that includes 1/4th of the contents of a sngle of the two founded boxes.......
I agree with you. I think they have all the MERCS fans already pledged. I think they've done themselves a disservice as to drawing new gamers into their nets. The add-on boxes are great for current players. But doesn't do anything for me, as like you said, I get less than 1/3 to a 1/4 of the $60 boxes for about half that price at $25. And their SGs aren't exciting to a non-Mercs person. The Myth stuff would be discarded, and the stupid dog is cringeworthy...
Incidentally the "Stupid Dog" is a running joke dating back to Myth, and is a nice nod to their community and long term fans. Harmless and well meaning.
I can live with the dog, who is really irrelevant, could be at least posed more reasonable/ had better equipment setup, we all have our pet vanities, they want their dog immortalized as a miniature (twice) so be it.
I feel they have exhausted their hardcore supporters. 896 Agent level and 560 OPFOR, along with 183 hardcore but Myth only pledgers.
The fact new people joining in show a steady decline and the flexible streachgoal show it has failed to reach the critical point of a good offer, to attract new people in.
For the Merc player there is little to no incentive to join in, they will get a few alternative poses and maybe a few new unreleased models (if streachgoals get reached) but for the most part they will get the same models they already have only in plastic, they could have grasped the chance of resculpting everything promising better sculpts to attract their attention, the main game is ok, but not the irresistible offer, no 3D terrain in it, most models are represented by card counters? as if Sodapop hadn't got enough flack for representing bonepiles with card counters, this is were the conversation about passing the kickstarter funds to the core box come in, if I saw this box on the self, I would not buy it, with 3D terrain, plastic hostages ectr, hell I might have bought it just for the civilians for my Infinity games, but not for just two poses.
Making the core box more attractive will help future sales, that's why I was so surprised to hear Myth got no upgrade.
Back on topic, neither box is an attractive purchase, streachgoals have burned the initial funding with... stupid streachgoals, funding 50k, you get 40 minis (plus 7 more for an extra 25) for 31 individual sculpts in total, 70 more k 20k more than the funding level you get 2 new sculpts at 6 minis, not per box, in general and Security 1 the one you will first meet and they feel counters would be better for their product,
makes no sense beyond saying lets face it the funding was 120k, but still why not upgrade the boxes with the security force 1? same with the (alternative?) secfor 2 and civilians.
300k Streachgoal as mentioned above makes no sense 50k as much as the finding to get one free mini and of course now not mentioned in the frontpage, the unlocking of texico expansion 7 new sculpts, but you have to pay for them.
The 400k streachgoal makes more sense as far as pledges go, add a free expansion pack, the other should be so too to add to the value of the pledge and make the product more attractive, s would the solo player board instead of the doors or shoved in between a huge gap to make the product feel better.
I kind of dislike most of the homage add ons, they make no sense and feel way too retro for the setting, they could at least futurise them.
*sigh* everyone always complains about "lack of pace" and "poor stretch goals" in every single KS I've backed. I think people even complained about that in Kingdom Death. Why complain about it? Just sit back and relax.
Besides, I would think that they will probably start actually advertising this fairly soon. Once they do, they're likely to bring in more backers.
Speaking of backing, since Tamburlaine decided to be greedy and take the entire pledge for himself, I've upgraded my own to the $120 level. I was planning on just splitting the $120 with him and throwing in for the add-ons, but I guess I won't, now.
.
to expect for their whole campaign? This and the level 1 secfor should have been in the base game...
