AgeOfEgos wrote: More open game = standard tabletop game? I was worried it would be too restrictive in SpaceHulk Aliens version--but this sounds promising (plus how would they capture the Predator feel)?
= standard tabletop game = I can only confirm ;] and add, Including gaining of experience (levelling-up) during the game*
Just stumbled on this news - how exciting! And how perfect that I'm going to see Aliens in the theater this week... In digital super hi def on an 80' screen... Yeah, I'm bragging. But wouldn't you?
This miniature game has me stoked. And I won't even mind if it is similar to Space Hulk... I love SH and would love an Alien version. At the very least we will surely see variety for both sides - like 1st Ed SH Hybrids gave the Genestealer player more options and weaponry.
Wait wait wait wait wait. I remember seeing that thing on TV once and thinking it was just some doofy Sci Fi movie. It gets sucked out through a tiny crack in the hull into space right?
Oh god... That was real... I thought I had imagined it...
Snrub wrote: It's very much real. That dumb thing single-handedly ruined Aliens 4.
Well, it would have done it single handedly. But then 4 also did a bunch of other stuff the also ruined it. It was like they wanted to make sure everyone hated it, so they spread the horrible out to every corner. Those cloned Ripley things didn't crave death because of their frail forms, they craved death because they saw the final draft of the script.
Snrub wrote: It's very much real. That dumb thing single-handedly ruined Aliens 4.
Well, it would have done it single handedly. But then 4 also did a bunch of other stuff the also ruined it. It was like they wanted to make sure everyone hated it, so they spread the horrible out to every corner. Those cloned Ripley things didn't crave death because of their frail forms, they craved death because they saw the final draft of the script.
Oddly enough i did read an earlier version of the script whilst the film was in pre production and it was much better, a chase through a weed field and a climactic battle against the newborn on the outside of the hull of the ship being a few highlights. I wish i still had a copy knocking about, id love to compare it to the film again.
Snrub wrote: It's very much real. That dumb thing single-handedly ruined Aliens 4.
Except for its questionable nose... DERP!... I actually felt like this was one of the only things that saved A:R. This and the Ripley clone scene. That actually had some emotional weight to it... Everything else felt so derivative... And the actors were meh.
No matter which version you roll with, when viewed from a rewards angle they look even more like a Big Jim.
What I hope is that they keep with the comic style aliens where the host determines aspects of the spawn so we can get a really awesome Xeno-Rex type creature, of the Tyrant King Xenomorph from the Alien Rogue series. (or Aliens War, I can't remember which)
Aliens 3 had the "dog alien" because it popped out of the dog. I hated the aliens 4 baby that got sucked into space but when you're on the 4th film of a franchise they can't all be a winner, plus it was an engineered item fron Ripley's DNA not the proper chestborne symbiote.
I have a 1/2 size replica of the alien skull from the predator trophy room, but now I want an actual scale head, those looks sooo good.
Not to metion the awesomeness that is the T-rex alien, and the comic. Though I can't help wondering how a teeny tiny face hugger impregnated a gigantic t-rex lol.
Got a baby T-rex, just a few weeks old, it would be tiny enough that the Hugger would fit on his face.
I hope we see different kinds of Aliens, after all their Gene-DNA- hybrid nature is something that could give way too much possibilities, i remember a gigantic Croc-Alien in a Batman Vs Aliens comic.
Snrub wrote: It's very much real. That dumb thing single-handedly ruined Aliens 4.
Yes. That's what ruined Aliens 4.
To be fair, Alien 4 has the occasional gem of a scene. That underwater scene in particular with the xenomorphs gliding slowly through the water was so well done.
Pity such scenes are wrapped in that movie though.
The game will be story driven. It is set between Alien and Aliens and takes inspiration primarily from the Alien and Predator films as opposed to the crossovers.
The initial release will be with a boxset ala Space Hulk. The initial boxset release will be before the end of 2013 with an initial expansion wave of up to a dozen new models planned for early 2014.
Prodos will be drawing in elements from the expanded universe so there will be plenty of different Alien/Predator/Colonial Marines/Civilian variants. Look out of an Alien from the old AvP Arcade Game!
The gameplay will be based off the Prodos Games engine used in their other game, Warzone Resurrection.
The game will support solo and multiplayer games. The initial boxset will come with a board for more contained focused play but there is also potential for further open combat.
There will be unique “hero” units.
The license does not include Prometheus.
Prodos will be showing off the game at various game conventions as well as a potential inaugural event to celebrate the release.
Dakkamite wrote:So, anyone know when this is happening? Don't want to go through 21 pages... but by god they have my interest.
Like some others have suggested I want to use them for Infinity, so not super fussed how their actual rules are unless they're fantastic
You may not have wanted to go through 21 pages, but you could have gone through the last couple at least...
AgeOfEgos wrote: More open game = standard tabletop game? I was worried it would be too restrictive in SpaceHulk Aliens version--but this sounds promising (plus how would they capture the Predator feel)?
= standard tabletop game = I can only confirm ;] and add, Including gaining of experience (levelling-up) during the game*
heh, awesome looking thus far. but one question, will you be releasing the Yautja (aka predator) jetbikes from the comics?
Warzone Resurrection wrote: http://www.avpgalaxy.net/2013/10/28/further-avp-miniatures-information/
: The game will be story driven. It is set between Alien and Aliens and takes inspiration primarily from the Alien and Predator films as opposed to the crossovers.
Excellent news!
The gameplay will be based off the Prodos Games engine used in their other game, Warzone Resurrection.
OK, question for anyone who has this game: Would be really grateful if someone could provide a brief synopsis for how the game functions!
The initial release will be with a boxset ala Space Hulk.
Space Hulk? Talk about things coming full circle..
The initial boxset release will be before the end of 2013 with an initial expansion wave of up to a dozen new models planned for early 2014.
Actually, kind of nice this isn't going to be a KS for a change. Would rather have something like this in my hands sooner, rather than getting 2 for 1 on bulkheads or facehugger eggs and having to wait until next autumn for them to be made! Good for the retailers too, this could be another good seller alongside X-Wing for Xmas.
Prodos will be drawing in elements from the expanded universe so there will be plenty of different Alien/Predator/Colonial Marines/Civilian variants. Look out of an Alien from the old AvP Arcade Game!
Excellent stuff! Can very vaguely remember that game (A Capcom/Final Fight type number right? Were there ever any home versions of it?)
There will be unique “hero” units.
The opportunity to re-create the scenes from either of the first two films will just be too awesome for words..
The license does not include Prometheus.
This doesn't bother me too much.. reading the books (although not sure if this will be continued into the films in future) the Engineers have some mega-type weapons that would make mincemeat of everything, not sure how well they would work!
I think Joss Whedon is even embarrassed by what they did to his script the final version isn't what he envisioned but as he was just the writer he turned it in and then someone did a hatchet job on it during filming.
Just because Whedon blamed everyone else doesn't mean his script bears no responsibility. Frankly, I like the movie ... I just don't care for it as an Aliens movie. There isn't a thing in that film that I would want in this game, not even the crew of the Betty.
So far, there's been no mention of an android. We gotta have an artificial person.
Manchu wrote: Just because Whedon blamed everyone else doesn't mean his script bears no responsibility. Frankly, I like the movie ... I just don't care for it as an Aliens movie. There isn't a thing in that film that I would want in this game, not even the crew of the Betty.
Yeah, it's as good as a generic Aliens comic book plot. Doesn't mean it should have been a feature film, though. I remember my impression as the credit rolled in the theater thinking "yeah, that was a movie with aliens in it".
So far, there's been no mention of an android. We gotta have an artificial person.
Oh most def. We need at least a Hyperdyne Systems 120-A/2 and a Weyland-Yutani "Bishop" 341-B.
They'll be great in a game. After all, the A/2's always were a bit... twitchy.
you could pay for a android, but not reveal it until a model suffers a "death", in which case it is instead revealed as an android, then starts with new stats as it no longer needs to remain "hidden".
Just skimming through the thread, the note about the Alien from the first movie being a Warrior is pretty inaccurate. It's a drone and is meant to be fully mature within the a matter of hours... "perfect organism". The reason the Warriors look different was due to budget constraints. Cameron wanted to be able to give the distinct impression of a Xenomorph whilst shooting in low light levels. The ridged heads, and general ruggedness of the Aliens Xenomorph was directly influenced by that budget/lighting constraint. This info is set out in the various bonus features in the boxed set that has been available for a number of years.
Theophony wrote: you could pay for a android, but not reveal it until a model suffers a "death", in which case it is instead revealed as an android, then starts with new stats as it no longer needs to remain "hidden".
YES! A feature like this would be most welcome. Although if everyone else is a Marine in might be easy to play "spot the artificial person."
Xenomorphic senses are a total mystery AFAIK. But I don't know what kind of heat signature androids produce. In the video games, androids definitely have a distinctive signature.
Also in the videogames (at least the old PC ones...haven't played the more recent two offerings beyond demos) the aliens "see" phermones and that was the justification of why they could see through walls. Whether or not that stays canon for a game a decade later in a completely different medium is another story...
MrMoustaffa wrote: Why do all the Weyland Yutani guys look like they have angry eyebrows on their helmets?
I am more puzzled as to why they are all wearing padded cloth jackets with mantles over the top.
The angry eyebrows on the helmets look like they are raised little eyehole blockers.
Isn't it all-weather combat gear? As I recall the exterior shots in Alien 3 are all snowy. And yeah, those look like maybe flip-up lenses of some description.
The Weyland-Yutani Commandos on Fiorina 161 we clad in full-body Apesuit body armor, designed to protect them from Xenomorph attack and the creature's acidic blood in particular. Several of the commandos were armed with M41A Pulse Rifles finished in black, while others carried more rudimentary nooses and snares to help them capture the Runner.
MrMoustaffa wrote: Why do all the Weyland Yutani guys look like they have angry eyebrows on their helmets?
I am more puzzled as to why they are all wearing padded cloth jackets with mantles over the top.
The angry eyebrows on the helmets look like they are raised little eyehole blockers.
Maybe they're valhallans? It's apparently cold there in the smelting furnance for them. I think they just decided to go for a certain look they thought was cool without really thinking it through too much... much like the plot for that movie and the effect it would have on the Aliens storyline.
The only major issue I have with the story are the facehuggers getting on board the escape pod. Again, the Queen could have left behind "fail safe" eggs when it stowed away on the drop ship.
Newt & Hicks dying is contentious, but it attempts to bring the genre back to horror. I'd also like to point to Aliens for Ripleys kick in the teeth being that her Daughter is dead because she's been away so long.
Alien3 gets a lot more bad press than it deserves, it is certainly watchable and definitely feels like it belongs in the same universe.
The only major issue I have with the story are the facehuggers getting on board the escape pod. Again, the Queen could have left behind "fail safe" eggs when it stowed away on the drop ship.
Newt & Hicks dying is contentious,
You pretty much answered your own question. Making interesting characters that are fan favorites survive a really good movie and having them die unceremoniously before the next one off screen was definitely not a good idea.
Aliens has a happy ending, in the sense that Ripley's dead daughter is subbed with Newt, she's met Hicks, and they nuked LV-426 and believed they'd killed off the aliens. Everything's wrapped up in a neat little package. Alien 3 tears that gak right up. It's much like the Terminator 2/3 thing. They stopped judgement day, but there was money to be made in a sequel so it happened anyway.
The only major issue I have with the story are the facehuggers getting on board the escape pod. Again, the Queen could have left behind "fail safe" eggs when it stowed away on the drop ship.
Newt & Hicks dying is contentious, but it attempts to bring the genre back to horror. I'd also like to point to Aliens for Ripleys kick in the teeth being that her Daughter is dead because she's been away so long.
Alien3 gets a lot more bad press than it deserves, it is certainly watchable and definitely feels like it belongs in the same universe.
Because people have opinions that differ from yours, and that the tonal shift to some is a bit drastic. It's better than the fourth film but it was a disappointing end to the franchise, and was all in all, unnecessary. Aliens was a fine end, it didn't need continuation.
Also Alien3's production was hellish for Giger and the crew.
Bull0 wrote: Aliens has a happy ending, in the sense that Ripley's dead daughter is subbed with Newt, she's met Hicks, and they nuked LV-426 and believed they'd killed off the aliens. Everything's wrapped up in a neat little package. Alien 3 tears that gak right up. It's much like the Terminator 2/3 thing. They stopped judgement day, but there was money to be made in a sequel so it happened anyway.
Aliens: Colonial Marines retconed this :^) . Hicks is alive and breathing. hahahah
Bull0 wrote: Aliens has a happy ending, in the sense that Ripley's dead daughter is subbed with Newt, she's met Hicks, and they nuked LV-426 and believed they'd killed off the aliens. Everything's wrapped up in a neat little package. Alien 3 tears that gak right up. It's much like the Terminator 2/3 thing. They stopped judgement day, but there was money to be made in a sequel so it happened anyway.
After finally seeing it a couple years ago, I'm of the impression that Alien 3 would have worked better if they had just changed the characters from Ripley, Hicks, and Newt to new characters. Maybe they were a family that was in cold sleep emigrating from some colony world, had a minor collision with a space hulk type bit of debris with some Xenomorph eggs onboard, one gets on their ship, movie then follows as normal. I bet people would have liked it a lot more if it just hadn't involved existing characters.
Also, I'm surprised at how easily forgotten those Weyland-Yutani commandos are. You almost never see fans of the series mention them, they have not "counts-as" miniatures and they rarely ever show up in photos. Colonial Marines are all anyone ever remembers, but not those guys. I thought that had some pretty interesting uniforms, but we barely get to see them in the movie.
You pretty much answered your own question. Making interesting characters that are fan favorites survive a really good movie and having them die unceremoniously before the next one off screen was definitely not a good idea.
Playing devil's advocate, here, but were they under contract? It might have been the actors causing the problem instead of the story (which would just be a workaround).
That was back in the day when a successful sequel didn't necessarily mean a trilogy, so they may not have thought that far in advance.
Michael Biehn was under the impression he'd be back for a sequel to Aliens. He was pretty miffed when he heard, through his agent who saw a cast of his "corpse" in an effects shop, that he would not be. The famous story is that the studio wanted to use a picture of him in the movie and he made them pay more for using that picture than he made acting in Aliens.
Warzone Resurrection wrote: http://www.avpgalaxy.net/2013/10/28/further-avp-miniatures-information/
: The game will be story driven. It is set between Alien and Aliens and takes inspiration primarily from the Alien and Predator films as opposed to the crossovers.
Excellent news!
The gameplay will be based off the Prodos Games engine used in their other game, Warzone Resurrection.
OK, question for anyone who has this game: Would be really grateful if someone could provide a brief synopsis for how the game functions!
The initial release will be with a boxset ala Space Hulk.
Space Hulk? Talk about things coming full circle..
The initial boxset release will be before the end of 2013 with an initial expansion wave of up to a dozen new models planned for early 2014.
Actually, kind of nice this isn't going to be a KS for a change. Would rather have something like this in my hands sooner, rather than getting 2 for 1 on bulkheads or facehugger eggs and having to wait until next autumn for them to be made! Good for the retailers too, this could be another good seller alongside X-Wing for Xmas.
Prodos will be drawing in elements from the expanded universe so there will be plenty of different Alien/Predator/Colonial Marines/Civilian variants. Look out of an Alien from the old AvP Arcade Game!
Excellent stuff! Can very vaguely remember that game (A Capcom/Final Fight type number right? Were there ever any home versions of it?)
There will be unique “hero” units.
The opportunity to re-create the scenes from either of the first two films will just be too awesome for words..
The license does not include Prometheus.
This doesn't bother me too much.. reading the books (although not sure if this will be continued into the films in future) the Engineers have some mega-type weapons that would make mincemeat of everything, not sure how well they would work!
Manchu wrote: Michael Biehn was under the impression he'd be back for a sequel to Aliens. He was pretty miffed when he heard, through his agent who saw a cast of his "corpse" in an effects shop, that he would not be.
Manchu wrote: Michael Biehn was under the impression he'd be back for a sequel to Aliens. He was pretty miffed when he heard, through his agent who saw a cast of his "corpse" in an effects shop, that he would not be. The famous story is that the studio wanted to use a picture of him in the movie and he made them pay more for using that picture than he made acting in Aliens.
Sort of; it was that they DID use a picture of him without his authorization, and then he sued them (and made more than his Aliens paycheck in the settlement)
Manchu wrote: Michael Biehn was under the impression he'd be back for a sequel to Aliens. He was pretty miffed when he heard, through his agent who saw a cast of his "corpse" in an effects shop, that he would not be. The famous story is that the studio wanted to use a picture of him in the movie and he made them pay more for using that picture than he made acting in Aliens.
Sort of; it was that they DID use a picture of him without his authorization, and then he sued them (and made more than his Aliens paycheck in the settlement)
That's not how he tells it on the latest special features reel. I think he said he threatened to sue for them using his face on the "corpse" and wouldn't accept any amount of money to let them do that. But he took the money for the picture as a screw you to Fox.
Manchu wrote: Michael Biehn was under the impression he'd be back for a sequel to Aliens. He was pretty miffed when he heard, through his agent who saw a cast of his "corpse" in an effects shop, that he would not be. The famous story is that the studio wanted to use a picture of him in the movie and he made them pay more for using that picture than he made acting in Aliens.
Sort of; it was that they DID use a picture of him without his authorization, and then he sued them (and made more than his Aliens paycheck in the settlement)
That's not how he tells it on the latest special features reel. I think he said he threatened to sue for them using his face on the "corpse" and wouldn't accept any amount of money to let them do that. But he took the money for the picture as a screw you to Fox.
Bearing in mind that the initial scripts drawn up for the 3rd film had both Hicks and Newt, and was set on earth some years after the events of Aliens (Hicks was washed out, Newt in a mental hospital). However, Fox execs got cold feet when they found out that Ripley would not be present in the film, and presumably spent the money they had saved on the expensive future-earth sets on persuading Sigourney Weaver to shave her head.
As usual with this kind of thing: Ah what might have been, and the two-edged sword that is big-studio spending power.
Manchu wrote: Michael Biehn was under the impression he'd be back for a sequel to Aliens. He was pretty miffed when he heard, through his agent who saw a cast of his "corpse" in an effects shop, that he would not be. The famous story is that the studio wanted to use a picture of him in the movie and he made them pay more for using that picture than he made acting in Aliens.
Sort of; it was that they DID use a picture of him without his authorization, and then he sued them (and made more than his Aliens paycheck in the settlement)
That's not how he tells it on the latest special features reel. I think he said he threatened to sue for them using his face on the "corpse" and wouldn't accept any amount of money to let them do that. But he took the money for the picture as a screw you to Fox.
Drats, that's different than the info on my old Aliens Special Edition Laserdisc box set!
edit - Though now I just read that the Blu Ray anthology features added stuff in from the old Laserdisc releases that were cut out of the 2003 Quadrilogy features plus some new stuff so now I must dedicate a day to rewatching them all
Bearing in mind that the initial scripts drawn up for the 3rd film had both Hicks and Newt, and was set on earth some years after the events of Aliens (Hicks was washed out, Newt in a mental hospital). However, Fox execs got cold feet when they found out that Ripley would not be present in the film, and presumably spent the money they had saved on the expensive future-earth sets on persuading Sigourney Weaver to shave her head.
As usual with this kind of thing: Ah what might have been, and the two-edged sword that is big-studio spending power.
which initial scripts? There's like a dozen of them The William Gibson script, Eric Red, David Twohy, Vincent Ward...
Manchu wrote: Michael Biehn was under the impression he'd be back for a sequel to Aliens. He was pretty miffed when he heard, through his agent who saw a cast of his "corpse" in an effects shop, that he would not be. The famous story is that the studio wanted to use a picture of him in the movie and he made them pay more for using that picture than he made acting in Aliens.
Sort of; it was that they DID use a picture of him without his authorization, and then he sued them (and made more than his Aliens paycheck in the settlement)
That's not how he tells it on the latest special features reel. I think he said he threatened to sue for them using his face on the "corpse" and wouldn't accept any amount of money to let them do that. But he took the money for the picture as a screw you to Fox.
Bearing in mind that the initial scripts drawn up for the 3rd film had both Hicks and Newt, and was set on earth some years after the events of Aliens (Hicks was washed out, Newt in a mental hospital). However, Fox execs got cold feet when they found out that Ripley would not be present in the film, and presumably spent the money they had saved on the expensive future-earth sets on persuading Sigourney Weaver to shave her head.
As usual with this kind of thing: Ah what might have been, and the two-edged sword that is big-studio spending power.
Ah ok so it would have been more like the comics then.
Wow that really sucks, I kind of liked the comic that I think Aliens 3 would have been based off.
The game will be story driven. It is set between Alien and Aliens and takes inspiration primarily from the Alien and Predator films as opposed to the crossovers.
The initial release will be with a boxset ala Space Hulk. The initial boxset release will be before the end of 2013 with an initial expansion wave of up to a dozen new models planned for early 2014.
Prodos will be drawing in elements from the expanded universe so there will be plenty of different Alien/Predator/Colonial Marines/Civilian variants. Look out of an Alien from the old AvP Arcade Game!
The gameplay will be based off the Prodos Games engine used in their other game, Warzone Resurrection.
The game will support solo and multiplayer games. The initial boxset will come with a board for more contained focused play but there is also potential for further open combat.
There will be unique “hero” units.
The license does not include Prometheus.
Prodos will be showing off the game at various game conventions as well as a potential inaugural event to celebrate the release.
While I admit that a KS is unlikely with such a quick release, it's not impossible. They could easily do a KS even if the majority of the work is done as both a preorder and marketing tool. That may not be the "correct" reason but it certainly won't be the first time in the industry.
warboss wrote: While I admit that a KS is unlikely with such a quick release, it's not impossible. They could easily do a KS even if the majority of the work is done as both a preorder and marketing tool. That may not be the "correct" reason but it certainly won't be the first time in the industry.
It does seem to be the way most companies are using KS. So I would not count it out, until we hear otherwise from Prodos in the announcement on Friday.
What's the shortest KS to product release time we have seen so far? We've had it confirmed that this is coming in 2013.. even if the KS started tomorrow, that would mean finishing a month before Xmas and trying to get out expanded material to customers within that time-frame.. it hasn't been stated officially, but all the signs point to a non-KS release.
Bearing in mind that the initial scripts drawn up for the 3rd film had both Hicks and Newt, and was set on earth some years after the events of Aliens (Hicks was washed out, Newt in a mental hospital). However, Fox execs got cold feet when they found out that Ripley would not be present in the film, and presumably spent the money they had saved on the expensive future-earth sets on persuading Sigourney Weaver to shave her head.
As usual with this kind of thing: Ah what might have been, and the two-edged sword that is big-studio spending power.
which initial scripts? There's like a dozen of them The William Gibson script, Eric Red, David Twohy, Vincent Ward...
The good one!
Damn.. I can feel another avatar coming on! But, which to choose?! Alien, Predator, or Marine?!
Pacific wrote: What's the shortest KS to product release time we have seen so far? We've had it confirmed that this is coming in 2013.. even if the KS started tomorrow, that would mean finishing a month before Xmas and trying to get out expanded material to customers within that time-frame.. it hasn't been stated officially, but all the signs point to a non-KS release.
Shortest I can think of was Games&Gears Brushes, where they shipped like 3 weeks after the kickstarter since it was already done.
They could easily market it as a multi-wave KS, with the boxed game coming out by the end of the year and a second wave to release in 2014. I'm not saying that is what they are doing, but it is doable.
BDJV wrote: They could easily market it as a multi-wave KS, with the boxed game coming out by the end of the year and a second wave to release in 2014. I'm not saying that is what they are doing, but it is doable.
It would be a smart approach as I've noticed the wait for the product to arrive is a frequent reason for not backing for some people.
What do you think we will get in the box? Terrain tiles to make a colony base or a ship, I'm sure. Maybe I'm hoping for too much but I'd like a full squad of Colonial Marines: two four-man fire teams with a smart-gunner in each team, a sergeant, and an "artificial person"/apc driver with at least two female Marines in the squad, and enough Aliens and Predators to be a challenge to the squad.
The marines look a little tall to fit with other parts of my plastic/lead collection. Im still going to get it but being compatable with other 28mm minis will dictate how much I spend on marines in total. Im hoping thats not the case waiting on the further scale pics from prodos.
Just wanted to post this again as I felt it had kind of slipped away. Somebody may want to update the OP?
Just addressing the point about the concept of the drone alien not being mature. Here is a pretty good indication of the size of the creature during the events of Alien.
You'll note its size. We know the actor portraying the Alien was 7ft2 and is seen here slightly crouched in this scene as he leans in to grab Lambert.
I think the foot thing, and the stunted Alien are really detracting from this. It's a shame because the Colonial Marines and the Predators look really good. I'm not sure why you guys are choosing to bungle one of the most iconic movie monsters in cinema history. You can clealy produce the detail required, but just haven't. If the stunted Alien is meant to be the Runner/Dog I'd have a look again. In the final corridor scenes it is pretty large with longer limbs than a regular Alien. I had a check to see if the Queen had more bestial feet, but again she/it has humanoid feet.
I wasn't going to say about the six fingers thing, but I think you need to change the design of the hands as well.
Several videos showing the Aliens throughout the series. NSFW obviously.
I think the foot thing, and the stunted Alien are really detracting from this. It's a shame because the Colonial Marines and the Predators look really good. I'm not sure why you guys are choosing to bungle one of the most iconic movie monsters in cinema history. You can clealy produce the detail required, but just haven't. If the stunted Alien is meant to be the Runner/Dog I'd have a look again. In the final corridor scenes it is pretty large with longer limbs than a regular Alien. I had a check to see if the Queen had more bestial feet, but again she/it has humanoid feet.
I have to be honest, I'm a pretty big Aliens fan. The first one was made just before I was born, but I remember getting a copy of Aliens on VHS when I was a kid, watching it with some mates and getting gak-scared by it even as I thought it was one of the coolest things ever. I've lost count of how many times I've seen the film, re-visited the original, and gone back to the cinema on opening weekends for the follow-up movies even though it seemed like I've had my fingers burnt each time. It's safe to say these guys are going to an essential purchase for me, even if the rules for the game are atrocious.
But.. I have to be honest, I really can't feel the same way as you about this - these miniatures, even from the basic, slightly un-focused shots we have seen so far, look like ten times better than anything we have had before. From the way the Predator with the wrist-computer, the marine with the smart-gun are posed, I'd hazard a guess that no small amount of effort and passion has gone into this. For detail, they make the Necron stood next to them look like a child's toy by comparison, and that is going to be more than enough detail for most.
So.. anyway, think you are picking a very minor nit with these miniatures, running with it, and overlooking the many cool looking elements of the miniatures we have seen so far. Each to our own/subjective nature of aesthetics, or whatever, but I know almost everyone who sees these miniatures is going to say "wow, those look great", they're going to think about finally being able to enter LV-426 with a squad of Colonial Marines, and they will go straight to Google and search on for them - rather than bemoaning the number of toes and fingers that are going to be the tiniest sliver of plastic at 28mm scale.
Anyway! Not to denigrate your opinion at all, and I would love these miniatures to be the best possible, but sometimes you've got to see the glass as half full right?
I get your point, and that's kind of why I'm annoyed about the slight deviations in the Alien design. I've watched these movies so many times and poured myself over the dvd extras and any morsel of information I can find. The Predators and Marines are really good (as I said before), really really good infact. Bloody amazing. I just think they can bring that detail to the Xenomorph but haven't. For me it's the Alien that sells it but to be fair I probably won't turn my nose up at this if those details don't get changed. I'll still be following this closely and hope more reveal pictures will sate my nitpicky ways.
I won't reconcile the Drone being a young Warrior though... some things cannot give!
I think the hands on the printed minis look right, the thicker digits look like two digits fused together. Works for me, and would make it easier to cast.
The feet look like they are a bit meh, but we really need close ups before we can truly judge.
You know, I'm willing to make a concession on the feet.
The important thing to me is after all this time, someone thought it would be a good idea to make an AVP game properly, with highly detailed Colonial Marines, Aliens and Predators. Before this, we were left hunting down limited release resin Predators from Predastore, the fatty from Heresy miniatures, or the very rudimentary INAPs, terrible Horrorclix Xenomorphs, occasionally decent not-Colonial Marines from places like Hasslefree or conversions of Cadians.
We now have a stantalone game, with really great, detailed models all in proportion with each other. Simply for this, I can forgive the Xenomorphs feet not being as they were in the movies.
It's cool that you guys are prioritizing Warzone in this instance. That directly responds to many concerned posts ITT. And I hope this fact is not overlooked!
Nope, we have Warzone Resurrection convention at Telford this Sunday so we are all extremely busy here.
More info Monday, I promise ;]
Oh, I have no doubt.
Just to be clear, that was entirely a snipe at Palladium at the Robotech KS, as saying their communication style leaves something to be desired would be the understatement of the year.
You guys have been solid, and 3 days is totally reasonable with a busy weekend looming.
If any of you were wondering what the subtext of the Alien movies were, here's the story -
Dan O'Bannon, Alien Screenwriter wrote:Oh, we're not joking. Our goal isn't to paste a bunch of out-of-context shots or lines of dialogue to make some spurious case. We'll let Alien screenwriter Dan O'Bannon spell it out himself:
"One thing that people are all disturbed about is sex... I said 'That's how I'm going to attack the audience; I'm going to attack them sexually. And I'm not going to go after the women in the audience, I'm going to attack the men. I am going to put in every image I can think of to make the men in the audience cross their legs. Homosexual oral rape, birth. The thing lays its eggs down your throat, the whole number.'"
Hence the sexualised imagery for a lot of their stuff.
Anyone else like me find that Aliens is holding up the least well out of the series? And yeah, that even includes #4. Looking back on it now I find a majority of the characters annoying as hell (thankfully they all die), and it a bit weak over all. #4 has a dumb ending, but I can forgive that because I liked the characterisation a lot better, and interactions. #3, the extended version, is excellent. So much better than the theatrical version.
Fenriswulf wrote: If any of you were wondering what the subtext of the Alien movies were, here's the story -
Dan O'Bannon, Alien Screenwriter wrote:Oh, we're not joking. Our goal isn't to paste a bunch of out-of-context shots or lines of dialogue to make some spurious case. We'll let Alien screenwriter Dan O'Bannon spell it out himself:
"One thing that people are all disturbed about is sex... I said 'That's how I'm going to attack the audience; I'm going to attack them sexually. And I'm not going to go after the women in the audience, I'm going to attack the men. I am going to put in every image I can think of to make the men in the audience cross their legs. Homosexual oral rape, birth. The thing lays its eggs down your throat, the whole number.'"
Hence the sexualised imagery for a lot of their stuff.
And I think actually in a lot of the original Giger artwork. It's pretty disturbed, perverse looking stuff..
And because of that fact, it really does work. Scared the living hell out of me as a kid.
And yeah, also glad it's not a kickstarter. I am hoping the rules are better than the Sedition Wars ones, and I can just buy this game and swap and change to make different bug hunt scenarios.
Fenriswulf wrote: If any of you were wondering what the subtext of the Alien movies were, here's the story -
Dan O'Bannon, Alien Screenwriter wrote:Oh, we're not joking. Our goal isn't to paste a bunch of out-of-context shots or lines of dialogue to make some spurious case. We'll let Alien screenwriter Dan O'Bannon spell it out himself:
"One thing that people are all disturbed about is sex... I said 'That's how I'm going to attack the audience; I'm going to attack them sexually. And I'm not going to go after the women in the audience, I'm going to attack the men. I am going to put in every image I can think of to make the men in the audience cross their legs. Homosexual oral rape, birth. The thing lays its eggs down your throat, the whole number.'"
Hence the sexualised imagery for a lot of their stuff.
And I think actually in a lot of the original Giger artwork. It's pretty disturbed, perverse looking stuff..
Yeah, from a sexual perspective, Giger's work on Alien is his most tame. A basic google image search will show you want I mean. Alot of it's NSFW, so I won't link it here.
By comparison, in Giger's work outside of Alien, it seems that women are by far the ones violated the most often.
Prodos wrote: Here is some more on the miniature quality:
They still look pretty crap, the Runners aren't bad but the Drones are just way too organic and lacking in the Giger aspect. It's disappointing to see the quality of the xenomorph sculpts in comparison with the Predator and Marines.
PrehistoricUFO wrote: I'm an idiot I guess, because I was under the initial impression these were just lookalikes to Alien and Predator.
This is officially licensed stuff, eh? Can't believe Fox greenlit something like this.
is the license worth a lot nowadays? Without any big movies in the past many many years (AVPR was 2007) and the last big video game being critically panned, it's possible they picked up the license cheap or maybe as a percentage of profits. Who knows. All I konw is I want a company of USCM
I think some of the hairsplitting over the alien designs is a bit much. None of the aliens remain exactly the same across the movies, comics, or video games. While they all retain the major features, each instance has their own take on how the xenomoprh form evolves and changes and has subtile differences. Fine details like the hands, feet, and the ribbing are barely even visable in the films as most times they are concealed by dark lighting and quick movements. It's only when you have a chance to pour over the stills and reference materials you can pick out the changes.
On top of that when you translate designs into miniatures form you are always going to need to flexibility in the design to accomidate the medium of sculpture, proportions need to be changed for look, model durability, and abiliy to be cast. So even when you are doing humans, the finer details often get changed a lot when it's rendered into miniatures form.
I'm a huge fan of the movies having seen them all countless times, as long as they nail the major features of the designs I'm happy. What they have been previewing is far better than any of the previous offering such as the clix which means I'm a happy guy. You can't please the hard core fans 100% of the time as the odds are that they are going to like one specific design from movie X above all others and don't want anything else. It makes it significantly harder to sell a game based off of one movie when there's a whole stack of spport genre material to pick from. Imagine the situation where somebody was actually a fan of the alien hybrid baby and that was the ONLY alien they wanted to see.
If you look at the various forms of the Aliens as being selections of mutations and subspecies it makes far more sense. Sort of like comparing great cats across the world, they have a distinct simularity in overall body shape but they have a lot of minor variations between each subspecies.
Also on a simular note the Predator designs are all differant in every movie/comic/game as well. We tend not to pay as much attention to the variety in the Predators as they are meant to be more clearly distinct individuals.
paulson games wrote: I think some of the hairsplitting over the alien designs is a bit much. None of the aliens remain exactly the same across the movies, comics, or video games. While they all retain the major features, each instance has their own take on how the xenomoprh form evolves and changes and has subtile differences. Fine details like the hands, feet, and the ribbing are barely even visable in the films as most times they are concealed by dark lighting and quick movements. It's only when you have a chance to pour over the stills and reference materials you can pick out the changes.
On top of that when you translate designs into miniatures form you are always going to need to flexibility in the design to accomidate the medium of sculpture, proportions need to be changed for look, model durability, and abiliy to be cast. So even when you are doing humans, the finer details often get changed a lot when it's rendered into miniatures form.
I'm a huge fan of the movies having seen them all countless times, as long as they nail the major features of the designs I'm happy. What they have been previewing is far better than any of the previous offering such as the clix which means I'm a happy guy. You can't please the hard core fans 100% of the time as the odds are that they are going to like one specific design from movie X above all others and don't want anything else. It makes it significantly harder to sell a game based off of one movie when there's a whole stack of spport genre material to pick from. Imagine the situation where somebody was actually a fan of the alien hybrid baby and that was the ONLY alien they wanted to see.
If you look at the various forms of the Aliens as being selections of mutations and subspecies it makes far more sense. Sort of like comparing great cats across the world, they have a distinct simularity in overall body shape but they have a lot of minor variations between each subspecies.
Also on a simular note the Predator designs are all differant in every movie/comic/game as well. We tend not to pay as much attention to the variety in the Predators as they are meant to be more clearly distinct individuals.
This. This, this and this again. Considering that the Xenomorphs are supposed to be a highly adaptable and variable race as it is, why make a big deal about the feet and hands?
Barzam wrote: This. This, this and this again. Considering that the Xenomorphs are supposed to be a highly adaptable and variable race as it is, why make a big deal about the feet and hands?
There's a difference between hand and feet structure and the entire theme and feel of the creature, i.e;
Overly organic, generic monster;
And Giger's creation;
Also, the Predators where are individuals and were never a caste based hive creature. It's a poor comparison to make and clouds the argument.
... but seriously, the only way that picture could be funnier would be if the actor was holding a cup of coffee in one hand and a cigarette in the other.
Fenriswulf wrote: If any of you were wondering what the subtext of the Alien movies were, here's the story -
Dan O'Bannon, Alien Screenwriter wrote:Oh, we're not joking. Our goal isn't to paste a bunch of out-of-context shots or lines of dialogue to make some spurious case. We'll let Alien screenwriter Dan O'Bannon spell it out himself:
"One thing that people are all disturbed about is sex... I said 'That's how I'm going to attack the audience; I'm going to attack them sexually. And I'm not going to go after the women in the audience, I'm going to attack the men. I am going to put in every image I can think of to make the men in the audience cross their legs. Homosexual oral rape, birth. The thing lays its eggs down your throat, the whole number.'"
Hence the sexualised imagery for a lot of their stuff.
Anyone else like me find that Aliens is holding up the least well out of the series? And yeah, that even includes #4. Looking back on it now I find a majority of the characters annoying as hell (thankfully they all die), and it a bit weak over all. #4 has a dumb ending, but I can forgive that because I liked the characterisation a lot better, and interactions. #3, the extended version, is excellent. So much better than the theatrical version.
I'm not sure I agree with #2 holding up the worst, are you taking the special edition into account? Also, Aliens holds up even better for me because the special effects are phenomenal and the fact that it was filmed on such a small budget is nothing short of jaw-dropping.
PrehistoricUFO wrote: I'm an idiot I guess, because I was under the initial impression these were just lookalikes to Alien and Predator.
This is officially licensed stuff, eh? Can't believe Fox greenlit something like this.
is the license worth a lot nowadays? Without any big movies in the past many many years (AVPR was 2007) and the last big video game being critically panned, it's possible they picked up the license cheap or maybe as a percentage of profits. Who knows. All I konw is I want a company of USCM
The game may have been critically panned, but sold very well.. in fact, we already discussed this earlier, so I will quote myself with the figures I looked up!
Prometheus (which is the Alien IP with nobs on) made getting on half a billion $ worldwide, with a sequel on the way, Colonial Marines sold more than a million copies despite being critically panned. So as far as franchises go I'd say not too shabby (certainly the 'Alien' part)
I think the license is probably pretty healthy, although with all of the other Aliens/Predator stuff about maybe Fox are quite liberal with it (or just take royalties on sales or something?)
There's a difference between hand and feet structure and the entire theme and feel of the creature, i.e;
Overly organic, generic monster;
And Giger's creation;
Also, the Predators where are individuals and were never a caste based hive creature. It's a poor comparison to make and clouds the argument.
Personally I find the organic verison to be an improvement, in the fact that it has a much more lifelike and dynamic pose. The pic from the original aliens looks like a stiff sculpture that is sorta hung on a coat hanger. There's no idication of body weight or movement and it's just sorta stuck there. There's also no feet visable....
(The revamped piece is also digital concept art work, not a shot of the model used in the movie).
There's a portion of fans that considered the design changes between Alien and Aliens to be pretty drastic. Cameron put a lot of personal touches into his revised Aliens design yet most people will put them into the same catergory as the first Alien, yet they rail against later versions of Alien 3& 4 for applying yet more changes. While fans might want to disassociate some of the later films or the AVP designs they are all still part of the same collective work. It's hairsplitting based largely on personal bias of liking or disliking the sequels.
Also the arguement of "they are supposed to be a hive creature" doesn't apply well to the design presented in Alien vs the later Aliens. You only ever see one version in the original alien and there's no concept of the "hive creature" introduced until the second movie. Also in the established alien lore they are simular to insects in the sense that they go through several stages of developement and molting. That would allow their features to change dramtaically between each stage starting from the almost snake like chest burster to drone, warrior, queen etc. Even if you disregard the lore from comics and games, the movies firmly establish that there isn't one "pure strain" verison of the xenomorphs they vary from host to host and even reflect changes based on what the local enviroment is as part of their adaptive range.
Agreed. In the expanded universe, their adaptability was always part of what made them so scary. If something else lived there, and the facehuggers could survive long enough to implant a host, you could have a resilient strain on the go in no time.
Nitpicking hand and foot details on a species that, world to world and hive to hive may have different hands and feet seems a little far, but I can understand that for some it's the little details that are most important. I'm not saying it's unreasonable to take issue with those changes/inaccuracies, but I don't have a problem with 'em.
Smoking hot girl buys a cheap off the shelf Star Trek costume and wears it to convention.
Enter the Sheldon type guy who sees it and is offended that the communications badge isn't regulation X made by so and so company, the stitching pattern isn't authentic and the shoes don't feature the same tread pattern depicted in episode 43. He gets all in a huff about the most minute details which are only known to the most extreme fanboy and his triade makes the girl cry.
The Sheldon type is so consumed with the uber fan aspects that he's completely oblivios to the bigger picture, which is the exsistence of a girl who's actually interested in Star Trek, much less the fact it's a hot girl. The Sheldon type says I don't understand what she's so upset about, by putting on that uniform she was assuming the mantle of responsibility and authenticity that a starfleet uniform demands. Meanwhile his friends who are more grounded are all facepalming.
Smoking hot girl buys a cheap off the shelf Star Trek costume and wears it to convention.
Enter the Sheldon type guy who sees it and is offended that the communications badge isn't regulation X made by so and so company, the stitching pattern isn't authentic and the shoes don't feature the same tread pattern depicted in episode 43. He gets all in a huff about the most minute details which are only known to the most extreme fanboy and his triade makes the girl cry.
The Sheldon type is so consumed with the uber fan aspects that he's completely oblivios to the bigger picture, which is the exsistence of a girl who's actually interested in Star Trek, much less the fact it's a hot girl. The Sheldon type says I don't understand what she's so upset about, by putting on that uniform she was assuming the mantle of responsibility and authenticity that a starfleet uniform demands. Meanwhile his friends who are more grounded are all facepalming.
I think you have hit on the head there...
I'm just absolutely thrilled to see a what looks like a potentially very high quality product being released to tie in with a fantastic series of movies.
Probably a lot of the emotion and opinions here reflect how highly thought of and loved the movies and licence are, but let's not lose sight of the forest for the trees!
Smoking hot girl buys a cheap off the shelf Star Trek costume and wears it to convention.
Enter the Sheldon type guy who sees it and is offended that the communications badge isn't regulation X made by so and so company, the stitching pattern isn't authentic and the shoes don't feature the same tread pattern depicted in episode 43. He gets all in a huff about the most minute details which are only known to the most extreme fanboy and his triade makes the girl cry.
The Sheldon type is so consumed with the uber fan aspects that he's completely oblivios to the bigger picture, which is the exsistence of a girl who's actually interested in Star Trek, much less the fact it's a hot girl. The Sheldon type says I don't understand what she's so upset about, by putting on that uniform she was assuming the mantle of responsibility and authenticity that a starfleet uniform demands. Meanwhile his friends who are more grounded are all facepalming.
> Ignores points made by people why the figures aren't seen as great
> Clouds argument by resolving to use ad homiem based comparisons
> Tries to form a straw man from the argument of the opposing side by exaggerating points made massively
My applogies for having an opinion. You have shamed me into defeat and I will forever more conceed that the Alien1 design is the best there ever was, or could be. Furthermore no possible deviations can allow for anyones enjoyment of the Aliens franchise beyond the original Alien movie. You sir have won the internets, and I am humbled before your greatness.
I agree wholeheartedly with everything Paulson has said. The minuate of the models are unimportant, the fact they are going to exist and be available to everybody is the fact that matters.
If you don't like the feet, convert them, or just opt out entirely.
My applogies for having an opinion. You have shamed me into defeat and I will forever more conceed that the Alien1 design is the best there ever was, or could be. Furthermore no possible deviations can allow for anyones enjoyment of the Aliens franchise beyond the original Alien movie. You sir have won the internets, and I am humbled before your greatness.
Great straw man argument right there. It's bound to work eventually. Also, pulling the opinion argument isn't going to work incredibly well, when you yourself are attacking someones opinion. Again, avoid these things, they do not help your position.
Smoking hot girl buys a cheap off the shelf Star Trek costume and wears it to convention.
Enter the Sheldon type guy who sees it and is offended that the communications badge isn't regulation X made by so and so company, the stitching pattern isn't authentic and the shoes don't feature the same tread pattern depicted in episode 43. He gets all in a huff about the most minute details which are only known to the most extreme fanboy and his triade makes the girl cry.
The Sheldon type is so consumed with the uber fan aspects that he's completely oblivios to the bigger picture, which is the exsistence of a girl who's actually interested in Star Trek, much less the fact it's a hot girl. The Sheldon type says I don't understand what she's so upset about, by putting on that uniform she was assuming the mantle of responsibility and authenticity that a starfleet uniform demands. Meanwhile his friends who are more grounded are all facepalming.
have an exalt. Put it much better than I was going to say it.
EDIT: We're all Sheldons in some respect. I will admit I'm a Sheldon when it comes to Original Cadian minis for example.
Barzam wrote: This. This, this and this again. Considering that the Xenomorphs are supposed to be a highly adaptable and variable race as it is, why make a big deal about the feet and hands?
There's a difference between hand and feet structure and the entire theme and feel of the creature, i.e;
Overly organic, generic monster;
And Giger's creation;
Also, the Predators where are individuals and were never a caste based hive creature. It's a poor comparison to make and clouds the argument.
Am I seriously the only one who can barely tell the difference between those two pics with the exception of coloration?!
Am I seriously the only one who can barely tell the difference between those two pics with the exception of coloration?!
Nope. This is the scifi equivalent of someone declaring that a Napoleonic 25mm fig range is complete crap because they have 3 buttons on their jackets instead of 4 from midwar on. Jeez! It looks completely unrealistic with 3 buttons like something straight out of a high school play costume department! I mean, seriously, the hats don't even look like they're made out of beavers! They're clearly sculpted to be rabbit fur! The rest of us are just happy that we get Pope hat wearing guys in dress uniforms with muskets and bayonets to paint as we haven't been able to find any in that scale for years.
Barzam wrote: This. This, this and this again. Considering that the Xenomorphs are supposed to be a highly adaptable and variable race as it is, why make a big deal about the feet and hands?
There's a difference between hand and feet structure and the entire theme and feel of the creature, i.e;
Overly organic, generic monster;
And Giger's creation;
Also, the Predators where are individuals and were never a caste based hive creature. It's a poor comparison to make and clouds the argument.
Am I seriously the only one who can barely tell the difference between those two pics with the exception of coloration?!
I can't tell the difference either. I'm amazed that people always find a reason to complain. The feet. Really? Who the cares.
Barzam wrote: This. This, this and this again. Considering that the Xenomorphs are supposed to be a highly adaptable and variable race as it is, why make a big deal about the feet and hands?
There's a difference between hand and feet structure and the entire theme and feel of the creature, i.e;
Overly organic, generic monster;
And Giger's creation;
Also, the Predators where are individuals and were never a caste based hive creature. It's a poor comparison to make and clouds the argument.
Other than the fact one is a rubber suit I cant tell the difference.
I like 'em both. They both look like something that lurks in dark, claustrophobia-inducing spaces, blending in with pipes and/or hives built from some sort of secreted resin (secreted from what?), just waiting for a chance to grab some unsuspecting passerby...
And after all, that's what we want from our xenomorphs.
Does anyone here at dakka know how the spoiler post function works? Or is it a personal preference to repost the same set of large pictures to add just a single new sentance?
warboss wrote: Does anyone here at dakka know how the spoiler post function works? Or is it a personal preference to repost the same set of large pictures to add just a single new sentance?
Barzam wrote: This. This, this and this again. Considering that the Xenomorphs are supposed to be a highly adaptable and variable race as it is, why make a big deal about the feet and hands?
There's a difference between hand and feet structure and the entire theme and feel of the creature, i.e;
Overly organic, generic monster;
And Giger's creation;
Also, the Predators where are individuals and were never a caste based hive creature. It's a poor comparison to make and clouds the argument.
Am I seriously the only one who can barely tell the difference between those two pics with the exception of coloration?!
Right with you brother.
I'm just excited this thing is going to exist.
Imposters pedantic nitpicking is pretty impressive though.
Yonan wrote: Gotta love the ad hominems. Always a true indicator of a well reasoned argument.
Is this where I post +1?
But seriously, it shows that there is a vocal portion who don't agree with the original poster rather than being a silent. I agree that the spoiler tags would have been nicer but I can live with it.
The original design from Alien has a lot more "mechanical" bits on it, like on the head/neck for example, where you can clearly see details that look literally like power cables or hoses (because the original suit could very likely have actual vacuum parts on it, since Giger's famous for his biomechanical art style), where the later design/CGI just has a lumpy organic mess instead, with only vague hints of ribbing/cabling anymore. If you look at the upper arm too it's really obvious, there's no mechanical look to it at all and it's just a plain, organic texture that fuses directly to the shoulder blade (which I'm also not too fond of, just looks odd). The hands are also different as some have pointed out already, the original has six fingers with the two pairs being "fused" in the center whereas later versions just have four long fingers now.
I haven't been following this whole argument very closely but in my opinion I kind of agree, as the creature has "evolved" it's sort of lost a lot of cool details like that and started to look more and more like a generic beast from low-budget sci-fi but with the iconic, phallus-shaped, eyeless head. That said, it's all detail that would likely get lost at this scale anyway, so...
Smoking hot girl buys a cheap off the shelf Star Trek costume and wears it to convention.
Enter the Sheldon type guy who sees it and is offended that the communications badge isn't regulation X made by so and so company, the stitching pattern isn't authentic and the shoes don't feature the same tread pattern depicted in episode 43. He gets all in a huff about the most minute details which are only known to the most extreme fanboy and his triade makes the girl cry.
The Sheldon type is so consumed with the uber fan aspects that he's completely oblivios to the bigger picture, which is the exsistence of a girl who's actually interested in Star Trek, much less the fact it's a hot girl. Meanwhile his friends who are more grounded are all facepalming.
I don't think anyone is saying they won't buy the aliens just because their toes, hands and entire skin texture are wrong. They might be saying they will buy fewer of them, but mostly they are just saying it's a shame that Prodos got everything right except for the eponymous monster.
You see, I can't not see those terrible dinosaur toes when I look at Prodos' models now.
Oh, and for the record, we don't give hot women in Star trek costumes grief because of their insignia. We give them grief because Troi's outfit is not a Starfleet uniform. Also, women interested in Star Trek--attractive women interested in Star Trek, even--are not rare. At least not around here.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Eldarain wrote: I understand preferring Giger's vision of the creature. But there doesn't seem to be anything mechanical in the creature's creation to me.
Where is it getting cables and hoses from when it's entire life cycle seems to be biological?
My applogies for having an opinion. You have shamed me into defeat and I will forever more conceed that the Alien1 design is the best there ever was, or could be. Furthermore no possible deviations can allow for anyones enjoyment of the Aliens franchise beyond the original Alien movie. You sir have won the internets, and I am humbled before your greatness.
First you brought up hot chicks in starfleet uniforms as a rare thing (nice gender bias there) in order to call anyone with a different opinion from yourself a Sheldon Cooper. Then you strawmanned him again with the most petulant sarcasm I've seen on Dakka in a long while. And you did this with an account linked to your business, right?
I always say I appreciate all the bald guys who had daughters and were good dads. It blows me away how many women I've dated/got with that have a great relationship with their bald father. I would imagine the "hot Trekkie chicks" have something similar going on.
PS: For those of you who can't tell the difference between a metal-skinned, glass-toothed hose monster with six fingers, and a fleshy Pumpkinhead with Marge Simpson hands and Yoshi feet, I have some great news!
My Mantic Men at Arms are indistinguishable from great models. I'll sell them them to you for a reasonable rate, the same price as Goldswords since at 28mm they're pretty much the same thing.
Most of us don't obsess over the very first woman we ever saw in our lives and think they don't all need to look like that to be attractive. That's what I think some are doing with the Alien from Alien. Anything else with slightly different features is just inferior apparently.
Joyboozer wrote: Hey Prodos, can you please start a new thread and stop spamming this thread with your game updates?
I thought one of the reasons why discussion got so off-track is because there really aren't any updates, and won't be any more until at least Monday.
Can't really talk about anything other than what we've seen until then, which is what seems to be happening: people voicing their approval/disapproval of the few model pics there are.
Earth Dragon wrote: Most of us don't obsess over the very first woman we ever saw in our lives and think they don't all need to look like that to be attractive. That's what I think some are doing with the Alien from Alien. Anything else with slightly different features is just inferior apparently.
First of all, we each have our favorites. My personal favorite is Alien 3's dog alien. However, I responded because people like Paulson Games were ganging up on someone who voiced a reasonable criticism and request. He wanted to see his favorite aliens as models, and he explained what he was looking for. Suddenly he's a permavirgin Sheldon Cooper? Are all criticisms forbidden now? Are you guys really Kroothawking the Raging Heroes thread up in here?
Why is is okay for people in the Dredd threads to prefer certain comics versions or Stallone or anything-but-Stallone, or for people in the Robotech thread to prefer certain portrayals of their mecha, but not okay for people who have fond memories of the first aliens to make the name for themselves, the ones from the beloved first two movies, to prefer those aliens?
And for all the people who claim not to be able to tell the difference (which I, as someone who doesn't have a lot invested in the franchise, find hard to believe), what is the problem with the company catering to the guys who CAN tell the difference? You'll be happy either way. And if Prodos made the good aliens that actually terrified people in the movies that are part of pop culture (and not cash cow garbage), it would make a lot of additional people who have taste happy.
Seriously, are you all arguing that Prodos will alienate (heh) the huge "Alien 4 is the best alien" market should they listen to the "Remember the movies that started a franchise" people? Which will make more money:
A) Prodos sells aliens to easily pleased casual fans and a few to dedicated fans.*
B) Prodos sells the same amount of aliens to easily pleased casual fans and a lot of aliens to the dedicated fans.*
?
Which will help the studio fund more models and expansions for the game?
*There are lots of people who spend thousands of dollars on Aliens costumes, replicas, toys, games, DVD re-releases, etc. Usually they pay more for good quality. Hint hint.
BobtheInquisitor wrote: PS: For those of you who can't tell the difference between a metal-skinned, glass-toothed hose monster with six fingers, and a fleshy Pumpkinhead with Marge Simpson hands and Yoshi feet, I have some great news!
My Mantic Men at Arms are indistinguishable from great models. I'll sell them them to you for a reasonable rate, the same price as Goldswords since at 28mm they're pretty much the same thing.
Dude relax. Most people here aren't pouring over the pictures looking at every individual detail. We take a quick glance to see the defining features (the odd head shape, no eyes, the long spinelike tail) and their brain clicks as "Alien". Its like if I plonked down a WWII Tiger I E from Tunisia next to one from the Eastern front in 1944. To me there are clearly obvious details there that will help immediately distinguish the two vehicles to make them unique. The average Joe however just sees it and thinks "That's a tiger tank, cool!".
This is the same thing. Most people are amazed just to see Aliens models as good as these. The few features they care about are covered, so they're happy. Details like the hands or legs are often hard to see in the movies so most people have no idea what they're "supposed" to look like. I will agree that the feet and hands look cooler in the film stills for the original, but I have a feeling they had a reason. After all, the Marines and Preds look spot on, so perhaps they were resculpted to not break. Bother the fingers and toes on the original Alien are extremely slender and would be easy to break. It wouldn't surprise me if they took some liberties with the models to make them more durable.
BobtheInquisitor wrote: PS: For those of you who can't tell the difference between a metal-skinned, glass-toothed hose monster with six fingers, and a fleshy Pumpkinhead with Marge Simpson hands and Yoshi feet, I have some great news!
My Mantic Men at Arms are indistinguishable from great models. I'll sell them them to you for a reasonable rate, the same price as Goldswords since at 28mm they're pretty much the same thing.
Dude relax. Most people here aren't pouring over the pictures looking at every individual detail. We take a quick glance to see the defining features (the odd head shape, no eyes, the long spinelike tail) and their brain clicks as "Alien". Its like if I plonked down a WWII Tiger I E from Tunisia next to one from the Eastern front in 1944. To me there are clearly obvious details there that will help immediately distinguish the two vehicles to make them unique. The average Joe however just sees it and thinks "That's a tiger tank, cool!".
You mean the same defining features that 1st edition Hormagaunts had? How can anyone complain about the horrorclix aliens if all they care about are "defining features"? If Prodos are trying to make a name for themselves by showing how detailed their models will be, then the details DO matter.
There is a lot of hypocrisy in cheering for the official license so we don't have to buy the knock-offs, and then jumping on the guy who suggest Prodos use the license to make the most popular versions from the most popular movies. It's not like this is a kickstarter thread, where negative comments could potentially (but not really) put off new backers. There is no reason to get defensive about Prodos choosing not to make the aliens that appeared in most people's favorite movies. It was a bad call.
For your tank metaphor, the average Joe is not the entirety of the market. He'll buy the tanks anyway, so why not build the correct tanks in the first place and sell some more of them to the actual tank enthusiasts?
This is the same thing. Most people are amazed just to see Aliens models as good as these. The few features they care about are covered, so they're happy. Details like the hands or legs are often hard to see in the movies so most people have no idea what they're "supposed" to look like. I will agree that the feet and hands look cooler in the film stills for the original, but I have a feeling they had a reason. After all, the Marines and Preds look spot on, so perhaps they were resculpted to not break. Bother the fingers and toes on the original Alien are extremely slender and would be easy to break. It wouldn't surprise me if they took some liberties with the models to make them more durable.
Again, if Prodos could make more people happy than just those who only care about a few features, why not do it?
Besides, there is a lot of difference between sculpting aliens with six fingers in a closed gesture (for sturdiness) or toes wrapped onto textured floor (like historicals do), and just going, "pppft, whatever. Alien 4 hands and toes will see us through. How much did we pay for this inclusive license again?"
I'm not justifying anyone's "reaction" to anything, but there is a lot of source material to draw from and NOBODY should really be clinging too hard to any one particular source.
Prodos stated they aren't focusing one any single source. If you look at their Warzone stuff, they did an excellent job updating it with thought. They had to adjust some fluff and make it a bit less wonky, and there were a number who griped, but it seems well received.
I think everyone needs to just take a step back and consider if things look "good" rather then "exactly like my favorite iteration". I'm sure they want suggestions and everyone is free to give them (and will no matter the situation), but with the aliens in particular, there is always gonna be lots of directions they can go. Let's give Prodos a chance to show a bit of what they got planned before we go crazy.
I know I hope they go the route of "Alien takes on properties of host". That way they can make their own original creation. Others feel that route is garbage, and I can respect that. But I'll sit and see what they got and not react to just a few minis and feel any criticism should be tempered until we see the real direction.
Ah.. I wondered when Bob would show up in this thread.. like an alien pulled relentlessly towards the pheromones of a cowering human, this thread has obviously started to represent a more attractive trolling-space than the Mantic threads
Sheep wrote: I prefer the CGI one. It looks less like it was made out of spare vacuum cleaner parts.
However, this is where I draw the line...! Heresy!!!
I did not imply that his opinion was not valid, nor did I suggest any version he should be forced to adopt. Everyone has their favorites which is cool.
What I was pointing out is that when dealing with die hard fans (in a general sense) who are heavily invested in a particular work they often rail very heavily against anything they don't percieve as adhering religiously to the canon or established designs. They do it because they are super into the subject, but sometimes their zeal is so much that they take it to such an extreme that it ends up being very off-putting to people with a more casual interest in the subject. The casual fan may not particualy care what the minor details are, but when the expert looms in says "well that's fine but you're not a true fan unless you meet this criteria... " that creates a toxic feeling. The expert often overlooks the fact that people are just excited by the general idea or story and the negativity he projects to other fans is sad because he should be embracing and enjoying the fact that others are interested in the same thing he is even if their commitment isn't quite as high.
The expert is obviously a person who loves the subject and delves into the details a great amount, which is admirable but it can easily drive a wedge between them and the casual fan.
As was stated by somebody else eariler in this thread the Aliens franchise is iconic and has a huge emotional conenction with a lot of people. That will generate some pretty heated and passionate responses when people run into something they don't feel fits in perfectly with the way they see the subject as being.
Also when people criticize a sculpt by saying it's bad that's the fastest way to get shut out and disregaurded by the artist. I'm not saying you can't offer criticism but saying something "sucks" or is "bad" isn't the way to lead off that conversation. While there are details that could be improved upon the sculpting quality is considerable and I don't think there's too many people on here that could offer something on a simular level. I think it would have been addressed much better with suggestions to improve the features rather than attacking the sculpt by saying the quality is bad. It is by no means a bad sculpt, but there is room for improvement.
My applogies for having an opinion. You have shamed me into defeat and I will forever more conceed that the Alien1 design is the best there ever was, or could be. Furthermore no possible deviations can allow for anyones enjoyment of the Aliens franchise beyond the original Alien movie. You sir have won the internets, and I am humbled before your greatness.
Great straw man argument right there. It's bound to work eventually. Also, pulling the opinion argument isn't going to work incredibly well, when you yourself are attacking someones opinion. Again, avoid these things, they do not help your position.
Imposter you need to get laid. Jesus.
Maturity at it's finest folks. Please, try and make a valid reprisal, and not fall into the "lol ur a virgun you cany say nuthin". It's a pretty poor ad homiem. As are the others.
BobtheInquisitor wrote: PS: For those of you who can't tell the difference between a metal-skinned, glass-toothed hose monster with six fingers, and a fleshy Pumpkinhead with Marge Simpson hands and Yoshi feet, I have some great news!
My Mantic Men at Arms are indistinguishable from great models. I'll sell them them to you for a reasonable rate, the same price as Goldswords since at 28mm they're pretty much the same thing.
Dude relax. Most people here aren't pouring over the pictures looking at every individual detail. We take a quick glance to see the defining features (the odd head shape, no eyes, the long spinelike tail) and their brain clicks as "Alien". Its like if I plonked down a WWII Tiger I E from Tunisia next to one from the Eastern front in 1944. To me there are clearly obvious details there that will help immediately distinguish the two vehicles to make them unique. The average Joe however just sees it and thinks "That's a tiger tank, cool!".
You mean the same defining features that 1st edition Hormagaunts had? How can anyone complain about the horrorclix aliens if all they care about are "defining features"? If Prodos are trying to make a name for themselves by showing how detailed their models will be, then the details DO matter.
There is a lot of hypocrisy in cheering for the official license so we don't have to buy the knock-offs, and then jumping on the guy who suggest Prodos use the license to make the most popular versions from the most popular movies. It's not like this is a kickstarter thread, where negative comments could potentially (but not really) put off new backers. There is no reason to get defensive about Prodos choosing not to make the aliens that appeared in most people's favorite movies. It was a bad call.
For your tank metaphor, the average Joe is not the entirety of the market. He'll buy the tanks anyway, so why not build the correct tanks in the first place and sell some more of them to the actual tank enthusiasts?
This is the same thing. Most people are amazed just to see Aliens models as good as these. The few features they care about are covered, so they're happy. Details like the hands or legs are often hard to see in the movies so most people have no idea what they're "supposed" to look like. I will agree that the feet and hands look cooler in the film stills for the original, but I have a feeling they had a reason. After all, the Marines and Preds look spot on, so perhaps they were resculpted to not break. Bother the fingers and toes on the original Alien are extremely slender and would be easy to break. It wouldn't surprise me if they took some liberties with the models to make them more durable.
Again, if Prodos could make more people happy than just those who only care about a few features, why not do it?
Besides, there is a lot of difference between sculpting aliens with six fingers in a closed gesture (for sturdiness) or toes wrapped onto textured floor (like historicals do), and just going, "pppft, whatever. Alien 4 hands and toes will see us through. How much did we pay for this inclusive license again?"
My applogies for having an opinion. You have shamed me into defeat and I will forever more conceed that the Alien1 design is the best there ever was, or could be. Furthermore no possible deviations can allow for anyones enjoyment of the Aliens franchise beyond the original Alien movie. You sir have won the internets, and I am humbled before your greatness.
First you brought up hot chicks in starfleet uniforms as a rare thing (nice gender bias there) in order to call anyone with a different opinion from yourself a Sheldon Cooper. Then you strawmanned him again with the most petulant sarcasm I've seen on Dakka in a long while. And you did this with an account linked to your business, right?
That's... kind of embarrassing.
None of you lot are coming out of this one well, truth be told.
The Aliens according to the books and graphic novels are a bio-enginered species. They are a first wave that enters a planets bio-sphere and lay eggs which then allow the aliens to bio-form themselves to the local wild life taking the traits that offer better design, or with Predator assistance to create better more aggressive prey animals.
This means that there are massive options for alien deigns and ideas from small to bigger.
The aliens were a cast system the Alien in Alien was a drone, so were the ones in Aliens, you only saw the warriors later briefly when the queen hisses and calls back in the 'Sigorny shot where she's holding the flame thrower at the eggs.'
The aliens are supposed to show variance.
As for Kickstarter, would like to see both one thinks, a system release with a basic figure set and use kickstarter to open up the universe with vehicles, mechanical lifters, bigger aliens, alien variants, heavy armour battle suit marines, background aspect books, maybe a new graphic novel option for higher subscribers, etc.
They have a massive amount of background material, out their with graphic novels, alien handbook etc Why not tap it for material and look towards it as an opportunity to see a cross company support.
Lots of stuff available and would be good for everyone's profit margin.
Also when people criticize a sculpt by saying it's bad that's the fastest way to get shut out and disregaurded by the artist. I'm not saying you can't offer criticism but saying something "sucks" or is "bad" isn't the way to lead off that conversation. While there are details that could be improved upon the sculpting quality is considerable and I don't think there's too many people on here that could offer something on a simular level. I think it would have been addressed much better with suggestions to improve the features rather than attacking the sculpt by saying the quality is bad. It is by no means a bad sculpt, but there is room for improvement.
Okay then, why the sculpt isn't great;
>Ribcage section is too toned down, needs to be more raised and rigged
>Head is too rounded, is more banana shapped than phallec
>Hunched, though this might only be the posture of this specific sculpt
>Tail seems way too large at the end, more of a big spike than a barb
>Lacks the biomechanical traits of the original aliens, which was one of the largest traits of Giger's design
Other then that, I'd say the mins are 'okay' at best but don't compare well with the others. The Dog alien seems fine, since even Giger's original design was a 'streamlined' xenomorph.
My applogies for having an opinion. You have shamed me into defeat and I will forever more conceed that the Alien1 design is the best there ever was, or could be. Furthermore no possible deviations can allow for anyones enjoyment of the Aliens franchise beyond the original Alien movie. You sir have won the internets, and I am humbled before your greatness.
First you brought up hot chicks in starfleet uniforms as a rare thing (nice gender bias there) in order to call anyone with a different opinion from yourself a Sheldon Cooper. Then you strawmanned him again with the most petulant sarcasm I've seen on Dakka in a long while. And you did this with an account linked to your business, right?
That's... kind of embarrassing.
None of you lot are coming out of this one well, truth be told.
There is that, actually.
So... time to get this one back on track.
Rule #1 and all that, yes?
Hopefully with a real update on Monday, things can become more focused next week.
Hurry up Monday, this thread is on an express elevator to hell! (Sorry, Aliens was on TV again last night! )
Really agree with Paulson Games, but also at the same time you can't please 100% of people 100% of the time, and what's important for one person won't be for another. I will say at least the criticism so far (what there has been of it) has at least been constructive, rather than just throw away comments of the kind that turn companies away from public forums.
Anyway! Thought it would be fitting to change my Avatar, and please feel free to join me anyone who is excited about the release of this game!
Sidstyler wrote: The original design from Alien has a lot more "mechanical" bits on it, like on the head/neck for example, where you can clearly see details that look literally like power cables or hoses (because the original suit could very likely have actual vacuum parts on it, since Giger's famous for his biomechanical art style), where the later design/CGI just has a lumpy organic mess instead, with only vague hints of ribbing/cabling anymore.
Yes. It is the difference between genius and generic.
Really agree with Paulson Games, but also at the same time you can't please 100% of people 100% of the time, and what's important for one person won't be for another
It really is an absurd position to take.
Prodos can be true to the designs and make them as accurate as possible, thereby pleasing the hardcore fans and also the people who don't care.
Or, Prodos can just make a Pumpkinhead, thereby making the hardcore fans sad BUT still pleasing the people who don't care.
Why are the people who don't care actively arguing for a Pumpkinhead?
Yes. It is the difference between genius and generic.
I have to admit, I don't get the 'generic' label some of you guys are using. I, and probably a vast majority of folks even a tiny bit familiar with any part of the Aliens franchise, see what you are calling generic and immediately think 'Aliens!'. The brand identification is clear, it really isn't generic at all.
Yes. It is the difference between genius and generic.
I have to admit, I don't get the 'generic' label some of you guys are using. I, and probably a vast majority of folks even a tiny bit familiar with any part of the Aliens franchise, see what you are calling generic and immediately think 'Aliens!'. The brand identification is clear, it really isn't generic at all.
Certainly. But if Prodos were making a football game about your favorite football team, but then included players from other teams and the football was shaped incorrectly and the rules were different and the players all has three big toes... well, you might be miffed. Me, on the other hand, I don't care about football so I'd see it and go "oh, that's football, I am at least a tiny bit familiar with it".
Again; why not make it accurate in the first place and make BOTH types of fans happy?
I think, at least in part, casting and production is probably a big part of it. 8 fingers or whatever may be canonically correct, but it's no good if a common complaint is then going to be bits snapping off or being mis-cast.
I think it's also important to point out that we are talking about 28mm scale here - guarantee you that most people, even hard-core fans wouldn't recognise at close range, and certainly not at tabletop distance. Blown-up images on a website tend to obfuscate that simple fact.
Yes. It is the difference between genius and generic.
I have to admit, I don't get the 'generic' label some of you guys are using. I, and probably a vast majority of folks even a tiny bit familiar with any part of the Aliens franchise, see what you are calling generic and immediately think 'Aliens!'. The brand identification is clear, it really isn't generic at all.
Certainly. But if Prodos were making a football game about your favorite football team, but then included players from other teams and the football was shaped incorrectly and the rules were different and the players all has three big toes... well, you might be miffed. Me, on the other hand, I don't care about football so I'd see it and go "oh, that's football, I am at least a tiny bit familiar with it".
Again; why not make it accurate in the first place and make BOTH types of fans happy?
Is this NOT from one of the Aliens movies or games or something else officially Aliens?
Seriously, if the Geiger design was only used in one of the many movies/comics/other Aliens franchise stuff made, how can you legitimately consider it the only valid design for Prodos to use? It may be your favorite, but it sure is not the only Aliens design which is valid. And the others are not really 'generic' if they are tied directly to the Aliens brand, right?
Again, I just don't see how the term 'generic' is the right term for what you are trying to say.
I dunno. In a strange way, I'm glad that all the superfans have been pointing out the difference that I as an apparently casual fan didn't notice. I noticed things like the dog alien being different and some aliens having tubes on their back ala Typhus but not the other details brought up. I've come to the conclusion that the Giger original alien is the worst looking of the lot (although still good). The later Cameron and AVP designs are more fluid on screen and organic which is what I expect and want from my aliens. After all, the aliens burst out of human chests, not vacuum bags. Less mechanical and more bio, please!
Has there been any clue as to the basic format of this game? Will it be a board game a la space hulk, a full on table top game like infinity, or somewhere between the two (dead zone-like)?
And has there been any mention of terrain/a board in the box?
Automatically Appended Next Post: Wait, might just have found it;
"The gameplay will be based off the Prodos Games engine used in their other game, Warzone Resurrection.
The game will support solo and multiplayer games. The initial boxset will come with a board for more contained focused play but there is also potential for further open combat. "
I apologize if I completely misread your intent, but I did not find it came across the way you seem to have wanted.
I remember when you posted pics of your mech and I, Matthieu and others said the feet were too small. You listened to our feedback and made changes that made everyone happier. It's a good thing you didn't tell us grognards we were scaring away the straights niggling over unimportant things like a model's feet, right?
My applogies for having an opinion. You have shamed me into defeat and I will forever more conceed that the Alien1 design is the best there ever was, or could be. Furthermore no possible deviations can allow for anyones enjoyment of the Aliens franchise beyond the original Alien movie. You sir have won the internets, and I am humbled before your greatness.
First you brought up hot chicks in starfleet uniforms as a rare thing (nice gender bias there) in order to call anyone with a different opinion from yourself a Sheldon Cooper. Then you strawmanned him again with the most petulant sarcasm I've seen on Dakka in a long while. And you did this with an account linked to your business, right?
That's... kind of embarrassing.
None of you lot are coming out of this one well, truth be told.
I already have an unkind reputation on this board. I don't go on the internet to make friends, necessarily.
My applogies for having an opinion. You have shamed me into defeat and I will forever more conceed that the Alien1 design is the best there ever was, or could be. Furthermore no possible deviations can allow for anyones enjoyment of the Aliens franchise beyond the original Alien movie. You sir have won the internets, and I am humbled before your greatness.
First you brought up hot chicks in starfleet uniforms as a rare thing (nice gender bias there) in order to call anyone with a different opinion from yourself a Sheldon Cooper. Then you strawmanned him again with the most petulant sarcasm I've seen on Dakka in a long while. And you did this with an account linked to your business, right?
That's... kind of embarrassing.
None of you lot are coming out of this one well, truth be told.
I already have an unkind reputation on this board. I don't go on the internet to make friends, necessarily.
warboss wrote: I dunno. In a strange way, I'm glad that all the superfans have been pointing out the difference that I as an apparently casual fan didn't notice. I noticed things like the dog alien being different and some aliens having tubes on their back ala Typhus but not the other details brought up. I've come to the conclusion that the Giger original alien is the worst looking of the lot (although still good). The later Cameron and AVP designs are more fluid on screen and organic which is what I expect and want from my aliens. After all, the aliens burst out of human chests, not vacuum bags. Less mechanical and more bio, please!
That's kinda how a feel too.
The orginal design had issues, thus why they used camra tricks to try and make the creature seem more alive, then looking like a dude in a suit.
I personaly think it's a good idea to use designs from the latter movies instead of the orginal. Not to mention the alien has always been a evolving design from it's beginning. People keep calling the latter designs "pumpkin head", but look at giger's orginal design! It's head was a flaccid penis, with a biomechanical foreskin. Well the head kept the shape, the penis head at the back and foreskin was dropped.
I would post a pitcher, but some might consider it NSFW.
I just want the aliens to have cool fluid poses like you see them move in the latter movies. Well AVP was garbage, that was one thing I realy liked in thows movies. To me that is the biggest issue I have with the current alien mini's. The poses kinda suck.
Lockark wrote: The orginal design had issues, thus why they used camra tricks to try and make the creature seem more alive, then looking like a dude in a suit.
It looked like a dude in a suit because it was a dude in a suit. Give the design a proper CG makeover and it would look alive enough to scare anyone.
Let's not mistake changes made due to technical issues for changes made to make the actual visual design better.
Lockark wrote: The orginal design had issues, thus why they used camra tricks to try and make the creature seem more alive, then looking like a dude in a suit.
It looked like a dude in a suit because it was a dude in a suit. Give the design a proper CG makeover and it would look alive enough to scare anyone.
Let's not mistake changes made due to technical issues for changes made to make the actual visual design better.
And agien. Giger's orginal concept art the alien had a penis complete with foreskin as a head. It also oringaly had eyes and looked more organic then what was in the 1st alien.
I get everyone has their favorit alien, but its hard to tell me thei is a wrong way to xenomorph. Besides this is avp. Bring on the dumb xenorex already! That thing is rad.
Lockark wrote: And agien. Giger's orginal concept art the alien had a penis complete with foreskin as a head. It also oringaly had eyes and looked more organic then what was in the 1st alien.
Okay? What I was getting at is that the first Alien model (build by Geiger AFAIK) is a very distinct, visually effective design. What came later is less so, for various reasons, some of them perfectly valid.
I personally would prefer a return to the older design, but not because I care about Alien/Aliens (I don't), but because I care about good design.
I remember when you posted pics of your mech and I, Matthieu and others said the feet were too small. You listened to our feedback and made changes that made everyone happier. It's a good thing you didn't tell us grognards we were scaring away the straights niggling over unimportant things like a model's feet, right?
Yes but you didn't launch into the conversation by saying these sculpts are sucky/bad. If you had I would have thought to myself these guys can feth off and put you on ignore. What you guys did correctly was approach it with an attitude of I like it overall but this element can be tweaked to be better, which goes over much more smoothly as it's constructive feedback and not a slap in the face like how the "sculpting is bad" comment comes out.
It's just like if some radom stranger walked up and said you suck at whatever you do for a living, most people wouldn't wouldn't react favorably to it. But if that person approaches you and instead says I like what it is you do but here's a suggestion on how you can improve on something you are doing it generally goes over much better.
MrMoustaffa wrote: Really? Never heard of any. Where they something like this or were they more boardgamey or hero clix type stuff?
The leading edge game is awesome, it follows the Aliens plotline so it can be balls hard as it's meant to be stacked against you and kill off the marines. The downside to it is that the minis were done in the early/mid 90's and were average quality (at most) for that time so they look pretty dated next to horroclix avp stuff. Despite the kinda plain look they can go for some pretty heavy prices on ebay.
The clix stuff isn't terrible, although it's not great and the one area it suffers from the most IMO is that there are no marines, civi humans, or facehuggers. The clix are improved greatly when repainted but that can be difficult as like most clixs the original paint is impossible to remove and can be really thick which floods out the detail. I think they did a pretty good job with the predators but the aliens are a bit lacking in detail. When covered all in blacnk I'm not sure how much detail would carry through.
Here's a great Flash based version of the Leading Edge Aliens game you can play for free
I remember when you posted pics of your mech and I, Matthieu and others said the feet were too small. You listened to our feedback and made changes that made everyone happier. It's a good thing you didn't tell us grognards we were scaring away the straights niggling over unimportant things like a model's feet, right?
Yes but you didn't launch into the conversation by saying these sculpts are sucky/bad. If you had I would have thought to myself these guys can feth off and put you on ignore. What you guys did correctly was approach it with an attitude of I like it overall but this element can be tweaked to be better, which goes over much more smoothly as it's constructive feedback and not a slap in the face like how the "sculpting is bad" comment comes out.
It's just like if some radom stranger walked up and said you suck at whatever you do for a living, most people wouldn't wouldn't react favorably to it. But if that person approaches you and instead says I like what it is you do but here's a suggestion on how you can improve on something you are doing it generally goes over much better.
MrMoustaffa wrote: Really? Never heard of any. Where they something like this or were they more boardgamey or hero clix type stuff?
The leading edge game is awesome, it follows the Aliens plotline so it can be balls hard as it's meant to be stacked against you and kill off the marines. The downside to it is that the minis were done in the early/mid 90's and were average quality (at most) for that time so they look pretty dated next to horroclix avp stuff. Despite the kinda plain look they can go for some pretty heavy prices on ebay.
The clix stuff isn't terrible, although it's not great and the one area it suffers from the most IMO is that there are no marines, civi humans, or facehuggers. The clix are improved greatly when repainted but that can be difficult as like most clixs the original paint is impossible to remove and can be really thick which floods out the detail. I think they did a pretty good job with the predators but the aliens are a bit lacking in detail. When covered all in blacnk I'm not sure how much detail would carry through.
Here's a great Flash based version of the Leading Edge Aliens game you can play for free
But I did list the problems with the designs, you just seem to have the taken the word "bad" out of any of my posts and claim that's the only point I made.
Lockark wrote: And agien. Giger's orginal concept art the alien had a penis complete with foreskin as a head. It also oringaly had eyes and looked more organic then what was in the 1st alien.
Okay? What I was getting at is that the first Alien model (build by Geiger AFAIK) is a very distinct, visually effective design. What came later is less so, for various reasons, some of them perfectly valid.
I personally would prefer a return to the older design, but not because I care about Alien/Aliens (I don't), but because I care about good design.
The 2nd part of my post adresses what you just said. You seemed to have ignored it.
=C
When their has been so many verstions, why are people attacking each other for not likeing their verstion?
I think the general impression is that we are moaning for moanings sake. We're not. The Colonial Marines and Predators have super amazing detail that seems to be slightly lacking in the Aliens. I'm not particularly arguing for one design over the other, I'd just like to see the original trilogy xenomorphs represented just as well.
I'm kind of confused why you guys are arguing against this. I'm not saying I wouldn't buy it, it's just a tad disappointing given the quality of the other two factions.
Medium of Death wrote: I think the general impression is that we are moaning for moanings sake. We're not. The Colonial Marines and Predators have super amazing detail that seems to be slightly lacking in the Aliens. I'm not particularly arguing for one design over the other, I'd just like to see the original trilogy xenomorphs represented just as well.
I'm kind of confused why you guys are arguing against this. I'm not saying I wouldn't buy it, it's just a tad disappointing given the quality of the other two factions.
I just dont like the attitude some people have of "I hate you for likeing something i hate."
Lockark wrote: The 2nd part of my post adresses what you just said. You seemed to have ignored it.
=C
When their has been so many verstions, why are people attacking each other for not likeing their verstion?
(This goes for both sides of this arguement.)
I'm not sure if you understand what I'm saying. I'm not attacking anyone over what type of xenomorph they like more. I don't care.
What I'm saying is that the initial design was more distinct and fitting for a creature called Alien. It was alien, despite it's humanoid form. Cameron didn't need the Alien. He needed a bunch of cool looking critters that would fight his gun porn totting marines and, for some reason, really wanted to show everyone their reproductive process (critters, not marines) in full. So he slashed and cut the design to be sturdier, easier to throw around and more organic, thus making it less alien.
Alien's Alien is a better Alien than Aliens Aliens. From a design standpoint. Get it?
Lockark wrote: The 2nd part of my post adresses what you just said. You seemed to have ignored it.
=C
When their has been so many verstions, why are people attacking each other for not likeing their verstion?
(This goes for both sides of this arguement.)
I'm not sure if you understand what I'm saying. I'm not attacking anyone over what type of xenomorph they like more. I don't care.
What I'm saying is that the initial design was more distinct and fitting for a creature called Alien. It was alien, despite it's humanoid form. Cameron didn't need the Alien. He needed a bunch of cool looking critters that would fight his gun porn totting marines and, for some reason, really wanted to show everyone their reproductive process (critters, not marines) in full. So he slashed and cut the design to be sturdier, easier to throw around and more organic, thus making it less alien.
Alien's Alien is a better Alien than Aliens Aliens. From a design standpoint. Get it?
I'm in for this one. Are we going to start seeing different levels of the beast (Xenomorphs and their varients from the movies) and the different types of Preds (Predators and their different movies)
Seem to remember there was a RPG and I found this.
Lockark wrote: The 2nd part of my post adresses what you just said. You seemed to have ignored it.
=C
When their has been so many verstions, why are people attacking each other for not likeing their verstion?
(This goes for both sides of this arguement.)
I'm not sure if you understand what I'm saying. I'm not attacking anyone over what type of xenomorph they like more. I don't care.
What I'm saying is that the initial design was more distinct and fitting for a creature called Alien. It was alien, despite it's humanoid form. Cameron didn't need the Alien. He needed a bunch of cool looking critters that would fight his gun porn totting marines and, for some reason, really wanted to show everyone their reproductive process (critters, not marines) in full. So he slashed and cut the design to be sturdier, easier to throw around and more organic, thus making it less alien.
Alien's Alien is a better Alien than Aliens Aliens. From a design standpoint. Get it?
Not at all. .
Cameron had to make alterations because it was gonna be pretty hard to make 12 costumes like the original, the head of which had around 180 moving parts. Over all Aliens is a really good film to see how effective lightning can be.
Ronin_eX wrote: Hey guys haven't been around the thread in a few days, how... is... it... go...
Seriously? Looks like I'm out until Monday. Have fun arguing about feet!
You sir are awesome... Summed up the direction this thread has gone and made LOL
Poor Prodos must be wondering what they did so wrong in a previous life... Ahh well, it's better to be talked about than not... I for one am looking forward to the next updates and have pulled quite a bit of my kickstarter backings now to wait for this game...
I too would like to see them delve into other source material outside of the films, especially for the marines. What they have is great, but the Tech Manual puts images to all the gak Hudson talks about but we never see. I want my marines with a PIG!
FBG_Kitt wrote: I too would like to see them delve into other source material outside of the films, especially for the marines. What they have is great, but the Tech Manual puts images to all the gak Hudson talks about but we never see. I want my marines with a PIG!
Would that be the Geiger PIG or some lame ol' generic PIG?
I'm not sure if you understand what I'm saying. I'm not attacking anyone over what type of xenomorph they like more. I don't care.
What I'm saying is that the initial design was more distinct and fitting for a creature called Alien. It was alien, despite it's humanoid form. Cameron didn't need the Alien. He needed a bunch of cool looking critters that would fight his gun porn totting marines and, for some reason, really wanted to show everyone their reproductive process (critters, not marines) in full. So he slashed and cut the design to be sturdier, easier to throw around and more organic, thus making it less alien.
Alien's Alien is a better Alien than Aliens Aliens. From a design standpoint. Get it?
Whao.
Thanks for bassicly telling me how dare I enjoy anything past the 1st movie.
Yes. It is the difference between genius and generic.
I have to admit, I don't get the 'generic' label some of you guys are using. I, and probably a vast majority of folks even a tiny bit familiar with any part of the Aliens franchise, see what you are calling generic and immediately think 'Aliens!'. The brand identification is clear, it really isn't generic at all.
The Giger alien is probably the most imitated movie monster of all time. Even Godzilla has fought a generic "alien". Heck, Goku has fought more than one type. Pumpkinhead is basically an organic Giger alien with a more conventional skull and digitigrade legs. Most of the defining characteristics of the Giger alien have been appropriated again and again, usually with some twist. However, the biomechanical aspect of them is probably the least utilized trait--thus less "generic".
FBG_Kitt wrote: I too would like to see them delve into other source material outside of the films, especially for the marines. What they have is great, but the Tech Manual puts images to all the gak Hudson talks about but we never see. I want my marines with a PIG!
Would that be the Geiger PIG or some lame ol' generic PIG?
Probably a Cameron PIG. Giger's PIG is just a saucy shower attachment.
I personaly think it's a good idea to use designs from the latter movies instead of the orginal. Not to mention the alien has always been a evolving design from it's beginning. People keep calling the latter designs "pumpkin head", but look at giger's orginal design! It's head was a flaccid penis, with a biomechanical foreskin. Well the head kept the shape, the penis head at the back and foreskin was dropped.
No, Pumpkinhead is not an insult for the alien. It is the name of this monster, who uses a lot of similar design elements from Giger's alien, and bears a lot more resemblance to alien 4's alines than to the original. That is why poeple say they look more generic--because they are less distinct from the imitators.
I would post a pitcher, but some might consider it NSFW.
I just want the aliens to have cool fluid poses like you see them move in the latter movies. Well AVP was garbage, that was one thing I realy liked in thows movies. To me that is the biggest issue I have with the current alien mini's. The poses kinda suck.
Personally, I would love to see a mix of all the different versions of the aliens in poses appropriate to their appearances. I love the way the dog alien and some of the AVP aliens move, but the first movie's alien certainly had a creepy quality. I have heard some fans describe the aliens in the later movies as being more like dangerous animals, like escaped lions or something, while the aliens in the first (and maybe second) movie were more frightening because they didn't move like animals. (They moved like mimes.)
I remember when you posted pics of your mech and I, Matthieu and others said the feet were too small. You listened to our feedback and made changes that made everyone happier. It's a good thing you didn't tell us grognards we were scaring away the straights niggling over unimportant things like a model's feet, right?
Yes but you didn't launch into the conversation by saying these sculpts are sucky/bad. If you had I would have thought to myself these guys can feth off and put you on ignore. What you guys did correctly was approach it with an attitude of I like it overall but this element can be tweaked to be better, which goes over much more smoothly as it's constructive feedback and not a slap in the face like how the "sculpting is bad" comment comes out.
It's just like if some radom stranger walked up and said you suck at whatever you do for a living, most people wouldn't wouldn't react favorably to it. But if that person approaches you and instead says I like what it is you do but here's a suggestion on how you can improve on something you are doing it generally goes over much better.
I don't recall seeing a post like that. I saw some fans comment that they would like to see the original alien, or that they were sad Prodos went with the AVP alien. Then someone told them to shut up because at least we are getting aliens. Then the first guys defended their position (which I find pretty strong, even if I don't actually prefer the first alien). Then people started jumping all over them calling them Sheldon Coopers and saying they were scaring the normals. Because they had an opinion that wasn't "facehug my wallet!" apparently..? Really, I came in here because I was annoyed by the the animosity towards people with a preference or a suggestion to Prodos that they might try using the actually popular movies' designs. No one started foaming at the mouth or giving Prodos that kind of crap. But you guys have treated them as if they have.
Surely the position that the most popular movies' aliens would likely be popular as models, and should be high on Prodos' list of upcoming models, is a position we can all understand if not agree upon?
If there is a good reason for Prodos to avoid the iconic Giger alien, hopefully they will explain it to us.
The original Alien in the first movie was limited by contemporary technology. A man in a rubber suit wouldn't come close to what Giger had in mind, e.g. slender waist and limbs. That's why director Scott was wise to rarely show the Alien, and then only in dark shadows. CGI removed those restrictions and allowed to actually show Aliens without them looking ridiculous.
That said, Prodos promised to release several versions of Aliens from all movies. And we have just seen 2.
Yes. It is the difference between genius and generic.
I have to admit, I don't get the 'generic' label some of you guys are using. I, and probably a vast majority of folks even a tiny bit familiar with any part of the Aliens franchise, see what you are calling generic and immediately think 'Aliens!'. The brand identification is clear, it really isn't generic at all.
The Giger alien is probably the most imitated movie monster of all time. Even Godzilla has fought a generic "alien". Heck, Goku has fought more than one type. Pumpkinhead is basically an organic Giger alien with a more conventional skull and digitigrade legs. Most of the defining characteristics of the Giger alien have been appropriated again and again, usually with some twist. However, the biomechanical aspect of them is probably the least utilized trait--thus less "generic".
And yet, NOTHING Prodos has shown is generic, it is all tied directly to the Aliens brand. Perhaps not the some folks prefer, but again, none of it is generic. Prodos is clearly tooling up to give us the iconic Aliens from the Aliens franchise, again, they may not be making the one particular one some here seem to feel is The Only Acceptable Alien Evah!, but seeing as the Aliens we have all seen in all the Aliens movies and in other Aliens branded media don'at all match The One, Prodos is still doing well in my book.
Wow. It`s been a long time since a thread got me to de-lurk.
Yes, there are indeed different versions of the Alien design. And yes, there`s a rather passionate fan-scene devoted to all things Alien (look up the sideshow freaks forum for that).
Considering the minutiae with which the different Space Marine variants are discussed and debated around here this should come as no surprise. Just consider a newcomer saying around here: "Come on, they`re all Space Marines. Why are you so concerned about the specifics of Blood Angels versus Iron hands ?"
Being the Tyranid nut that I am it should also come as no surprise that I am stricken with the Alien. In fact I do have- among other things- a complete life sized 2,3 metre version in my man cave. Among Alien fans it is pretty much consensus that the initial design was the strongest and that -maybe- Cameron`s version was nearly as good. Obviously to each their own, but the nerdrage about the issue here is irritating.
That after decades finally a company manages to produce proper high quality tabletop models of the franchise is definitely great news. That the real passionate fans have their specific view how it should be done...is typical for all the new stuff where there`s already an established niche. In fact it`s no different from any new 40K codex release.
One thing, im interested in looking at is the balance of the game, I wonder how its all going to intertwine and work with the rules?
To me I am going to find it interesting on how they will perceive the rules for the Predators as from my point of view in the movies and games they make the Predators OP and they just kill everything whilst eating popcorn, so Im very interested in the balance of the game
That is VERY cool, thanks for posting it! So as not to de-rail this thread (although I can see the 2 feeding off of each other) do we have another thread for this one?
Ronin_eX wrote:Hey guys haven't been around the thread in a few days, how... is... it... go...
Seriously? Looks like I'm out until Monday. Have fun arguing about feet!
Pacific wrote: That is VERY cool, thanks for posting it! So as not to de-rail this thread (although I can see the 2 feeding off of each other) do we have another thread for this one?
If you have a personal issue with the sculpts I can see that, but all I see right now is some concept pieces and people nitpicking the movies.
I like them, by the way and will hope to have some money for a couple of sets.
As rabid as I was at the time for Starship Troopers, I am having that feeling with this game.
New game, plenty of interest, I am thoroughly stoked for it.
If you would do it, I'd like to see different types of Aliens and Pedatators from ALL of the movies.
So then you can have yourself some varied and different types of units.
A good one I'd also like would be figures of the old standards, Ripley, the crew of the Sulaco. Ripley, the crew of the Nostromo, Alien 3 with the Prisoners, The Other Generic terraformers, Even go as far as the Predator movies, and have some of the crews such as Dutch and his crews, some different types of Predators.
Predaliens, Some of those things from the Hunting planet, even open it up for NEW types of Alien crossbreeds.
Moloch wrote: Wow. It`s been a long time since a thread got me to de-lurk.
Being the Tyranid nut that I am it should also come as no surprise that I am stricken with the Alien. In fact I do have- among other things- a complete life sized 2,3 metre version in my man cave.
Moloch, you can't come out of hiding and casually mention a 2.3 meter Alien model without showing us a photo....
Moloch wrote: Wow. It`s been a long time since a thread got me to de-lurk.
Being the Tyranid nut that I am it should also come as no surprise that I am stricken with the Alien. In fact I do have- among other things- a complete life sized 2,3 metre version in my man cave.
Moloch, you can't come out of hiding and casually mention a 2.3 meter Alien model without showing us a photo....
Tim
Indeed. I recommend taking a pic spooning with it in bed for internet humor gold and instant fame!
For some reason I see "Alien from Alien is bestest" argument coming up constantly. Too bad you can't ignore people in just one thread (I hate the idea of permanently ignoring someone and have yet to do it in any forum.)
Moloch wrote: Wow. It`s been a long time since a thread got me to de-lurk.
Being the Tyranid nut that I am it should also come as no surprise that I am stricken with the Alien. In fact I do have- among other things- a complete life sized 2,3 metre version in my man cave.
Moloch, you can't come out of hiding and casually mention a 2.3 meter Alien model without showing us a photo....
Tim
Know what, Tim ? In your place i`d insist too. Here`s a quick snapshot:
I have to stress though that there`s a lot of focal distortion at work here: The Alien`s head is not that big, the legs and feet not that small. Oh am also not _that_ small.
Moloch wrote: Wow. It`s been a long time since a thread got me to de-lurk.
Being the Tyranid nut that I am it should also come as no surprise that I am stricken with the Alien. In fact I do have- among other things- a complete life sized 2,3 metre version in my man cave.
Moloch, you can't come out of hiding and casually mention a 2.3 meter Alien model without showing us a photo....
Tim
Know what, Tim ? In your place i`d insist too. Here`s a quick snapshot:
I have to stress though that there`s a lot of focal distortion at work here: The Alien`s head is not that big, the legs and feet not that small. Oh am also not _that_ small.
There's a point where it goes from "collection" to "museum" and this has clearly passed it
I have that skull on the right of frame I wish I had everything else! Really impressive mate, and hope to see your work on these models and the new tyranids when they come round.
The Predalien looks surprisingly good, while the Drone's head isn't as curvy as those first shots made it seem to be. However, the miniatures all seem to be lacking in the detail which is found in the marines and predators, while the biomechanical look is still missing, which was the core of Gigers design.
Imposter101 wrote: The Predalien looks surprisingly good, while the Drone's head isn't as curvy as those first shots made it seem to be. However, the miniatures all seem to be lacking in the detail which is found in the marines and predators, while the biomechanical look is still missing, which was the core of Gigers design.
I have to agree that they don't seem on the same technical level as the other races.
warboss wrote: Awesome.. predaliens! I'm definitely missing that one in my horrorclix AVP collection. I hope they post the info early on Monday in the UK.
LOVE the Predalien! Is that going to come in the Box Set!!?
Moloch wrote: Wow. It`s been a long time since a thread got me to de-lurk.
Being the Tyranid nut that I am it should also come as no surprise that I am stricken with the Alien. In fact I do have- among other things- a complete life sized 2,3 metre version in my man cave.
Moloch, you can't come out of hiding and casually mention a 2.3 meter Alien model without showing us a photo....
Tim
Know what, Tim ? In your place i`d insist too. Here`s a quick snapshot:
I have to stress though that there`s a lot of focal distortion at work here: The Alien`s head is not that big, the legs and feet not that small. Oh am also not _that_ small.
You really should know better by now, Mr. Weyland. We're on to you.
Seriously, though, that is fantastic!
Also, sweet! New pictures! Can't wait for the announcement...
my wallet is going to hurt so much. I have the old 25MM aliens from '91, but I'm really enthused about getting them in 28 mm.
The only thing I wish is they didn't have all the aliens with their tail posed over their head to strike. My memory may be fuzzy, but I only remember the dog alien and queen using its tail like that. I'd rather if the tail just "followed along" rather that it being posed to strike like a scorpion's tail.
Stormonu wrote: my wallet is going to hurt so much. I have the old 25MM aliens from '91, but I'm really enthused about getting them in 28 mm.
The only thing I wish is they didn't have all the aliens with their tail posed over their head to strike. My memory may be fuzzy, but I only remember the dog alien and queen using its tail like that. I'd rather if the tail just "followed along" rather that it being posed to strike like a scorpion's tail.
Agreed on the tail bit, but it seems to me that there might be a practical reason, too. If three or four cluster together on a game board, the tails might get in the way if trailing behind. Over the shoulder might look less awkward than straight up... Maybe...?
As you say, the tail is also used as a weapon, so it coming in front of the alien can represent that and look good. So long as there's a nice variety of poses it should all be good, I hope they have it covered. Would rather not need to make stylistic sacrifices for board functionality if possible. I guess a bit of greenstuff and some hacking and chopping could probably fix it anyway.
I'd like to see something like in a campaign, you roll a die for each colonial marine or predator taken out by an alien, and on a 15+ or something you get an extra alien, if they are taken out of action by a facehugger they are on a 10+ or something like that.
Just thinking out loud, I'm sure they'll have a much more elegant solution.
Another KS, crap, I was hoping for a general release with the option to pay with paypal so I don't get stabbed with extra fees and conversion charges associated with NOT being and American or British.
.jpg)
cares.
