Doesn't it come stock with the rotary cannon and twin lascannons? That's more than enough.
Rotary cannon and two lascannons, slight difference.
Avenger Assault Cannon actually. The Rotary Cannon is something else IIRC.
Avenger Bolt Cannon actually. The Avenger Assault Cannon doesn't exist.
Eh, close enough. The heavy stubber on the back for AA defense is the real issue, unless the DA flyer has one I'm not seeing in the pics (fortunately I have a ton of big shootas, which are close enough for me for conversion purposes.)
Also, having assembled an Exorcist, I have new-found sympathy for anyone who played this game when metal was the norm (and has me slightly wary of my All Quiet on the Martian Front models, when they arrive.)
Hoitash wrote: Eh, close enough. The heavy stubber on the back for AA defense is the real issue, unless the DA flyer has one I'm not seeing in the pics (fortunately I have a ton of big shootas, which are close enough for me for conversion purposes.)
Also, having assembled an Exorcist, I have new-found sympathy for anyone who played this game when metal was the norm (and has me slightly wary of my All Quiet on the Martian Front models, when they arrive.)
Gluing on sisters' backpacks and Penitent Engine arms was a regular after-game ritual.
war wrote: Not having/using the stubber is not a drawback IMO. AA... Riiight
I have had opportunity to use the stubber exactly once so far and it did.. absolutely nothing. The angle of it compared with the fact you can't shoot down through the fuselage and the fact is only S4 means that it is almost never useful.
BoomWolf wrote: The same is true for any other Altar of War, the missions are usually set up in fashion that the army featuring them REALLY enjoys the situation.
See the "Montka" mission in farsight to see what is a real game-changing mission.
You can reserve how many units you want, you reroll reserves, on top of that your deepstrikes and outflanks gets rerolls, deployment lines are closer then usual, you are almost assured to go first (on a 2+) and you get improved precision shots (5+)
And you win by simply getting more killpoints then there were game turns, regardless on how many losses you took.
Its the most brutal and violent mission ever seen on 40k, even real killpoints pale in comparison.
That is assuming the tau do not actually get whipped from the field first. That is about the only way to really lose that mission.
asianavatar wrote: On the subject of immolators, any one have good ideas for making closed turrets, not a big fan of that sister sitting on top of my tank behind a window.
The standard Razorback/Land Raider hull turret fits just fine in the front or back circular Immy mounting points. I have my Sister Rhinos set up so that I can put a turret on the front/hatch on the back for Immies, hatch on the front/missile rack on the back for Exos, or bubble on the front/hatch on the back for Rhinos. Makes it way easier to min/max my tanking needs.
So the wife wants to run DCAs and Crusaders (she likes the look), originally they were going to be with Uriah. Now i am leaning toward a priest with litanies. Should i still include Uria, or is there a better mix?
heracyangel wrote: So the wife wants to run DCAs and Crusaders (she likes the look), originally they were going to be with Uriah. Now i am leaning toward a priest with litanies. Should i still include Uria, or is there a better mix?
I would not include Uriah in that unit. You'll want at least one priest though and keep Uriah in a 20 sister blob about 6-9 inches behind the DCA/Crusader unit.
heracyangel wrote: So the wife wants to run DCAs and Crusaders (she likes the look), originally they were going to be with Uriah. Now i am leaning toward a priest with litanies. Should i still include Uria, or is there a better mix?
I would not include Uriah in that unit. You'll want at least one priest though and keep Uriah in a 20 sister blob about 6-9 inches behind the DCA/Crusader unit.
I am thinking of going with 4 Crusaders, 4 DCAs, 2 Priests, with Bolt Pistols and Power Mauls. One with Litanies, should i stick any Relics on the other one?
Those conclaves should REALLY get to charge from within rhinos.
Its not like the rhinos are so OP and survivable there's no way they are balanced as assault vehicles, like they used to say no way the 14/14/14 land raiders couldn't be assault veh... Oh wait.
Got my Condemnor Boltgun mod all fixed up. What do yall think?
I figured the Sister superior model where shes holding her bolter right out in front of her would be the easiest for any combi-weapon actually.
The crossbow is a bit from the Dark elf crossbowmen kit.
Nobody_Holme wrote: Those conclaves should REALLY get to charge from within rhinos.
Its not like the rhinos are so OP and survivable there's no way they are balanced as assault vehicles, like they used to say no way the 14/14/14 land raiders couldn't be assault veh... Oh wait.
GG GW
Yes, we need an assault vehicle..... Gonna homebrew one eventually myself. Torn between simple Rhino variant and giant rolling church full of guns, probably will attempt both.
For those of you interested, this is what I have completed so far:
Spoiler:
(Boltgun, Combi-Blank, Combi-Flamer, Storm Bolter (Combi-Bolter) and spare mags)
And once the remaining Combi weapons are done (Melta, Plasma, Comndemnor) and Sarissa are done, they will all be up for sale!
(And later still will come Bolt, HandFlamer and Inferno Pistols, aswell as all special and heavy weapons.)
@outlaw - You beat me to it, ive used exactly the same part to do a couple of condemnor boltguns too. Ill post a pick up soon to compare.
I had my second game with the new dex last night, and this time i had a decent victory. I was against IG, 2000pts, crusade (5 objectives), hammer and anvil deployment, i chose to go 2nd.
Thoughts from the game:
- 20 woman blobs of sisters with a priest are very difficult to remove. My opponent scared me in the first turn by removing 5-8 from each unit with ordanance shots even though they were in cover, but 2 outflanking dom squads (amazing with hammer and anvil deployment) made short work of his pie-plate chuckers.
- IG really really dont like flamers of any type. He had a load of troops hiding behind an ADL with boosted cover saves (from warlord trait) who were not going to be moved by bolter fire, but a ballsy and lucky deepstrike from my seraphim managed to remove 17 opf a 21 man squad in a single turn of shooting.
- Preferred enemy is awesome on BSS. I put a simulacrum in each 20 woman squad, so 4 lots of massed shooting from them wiped the veteran squads who were trying for objectives
- I really didnt struggle with a lack of AoF. The doms only needed 1 AoF each and with laud hailers on their transports they were reliable. My Heavy flamer rets didnt need to use theirs at all (what use is rending on 4+ armour max with heavy flamers)
- Priests are worth their weight in gold, but i dont think ill pay for upgrades on them, just run them bare-bones is most efficient in my opinion.
Cant wait for my next game now. Im trying to organise a big Apoc game soon too, its looking like it'll be 6-8K each side, AS (with IG allies) vs Black templars and more black templars (2 players each with a large BT force). Ithink they are planning on having 200+ marine bodies on the table. Should be fun!
Yep, I just cut the rear section off of one of the crossbowmen and stuck it under the barrel of the boltgun. Not exactly a difficult conversion but very effective id say.
Nobody_Holme wrote: Those conclaves should REALLY get to charge from within rhinos.
Its not like the rhinos are so OP and survivable there's no way they are balanced as assault vehicles, like they used to say no way the 14/14/14 land raiders couldn't be assault veh... Oh wait.
GG GW
I would even be willing to pay for a small upgrade on the rhino to make it so you could assault out of the rear hatch
My conversion idea also works with the regular battle sister model thats holding the grenade up to her mouth.
I had to check out the other poses since now on the GW site the sister superior models I was using are sold out but I wanted to make two more.
Nobody_Holme wrote: Those conclaves should REALLY get to charge from within rhinos.
Its not like the rhinos are so OP and survivable there's no way they are balanced as assault vehicles, like they used to say no way the 14/14/14 land raiders couldn't be assault veh... Oh wait.
GG GW
I would even be willing to pay for a small upgrade on the rhino to make it so you could assault out of the rear hatch
I think every codex with a rhino in it would be willing to do that.
scrunty wrote: - Priests are worth their weight in gold, but i dont think ill pay for upgrades on them, just run them bare-bones is most efficient in my opinion.
Except Litanies if you're running them in a 20 blob. That is required.
I think we are going to need a large supply of Godwyn Deaz bolters some day. I heard that when the line gets redone all of their bolters are going to be stranded imperial patter like marines (heck look at IG and how their bolters got redone as well) I personally love the Godwyn Deaz patter especially as it is just as much as a weapon as it is a symbol of their faith.
Assault repressors would make a ton of sense, given the arbites' use for them.
It would also mean repentia would actually have a place in a serious list, as using AT firepower on immolators is all well and good but there's that AV13 box with murder machines coming up with them, and it could multi-charge all your tanks...
FW guys might be reading this and then consider it when they get around to redoing the thing, though, because that would give them a lot of sales, and its far enough in the future to not really hurt the core GW line.
Had a great agme last night - 3rd outing for the Sisters with new codex and I am starting to get to grips with them.
Once again I had the Initiative seized but it was an incredably brutal melta fest - with me runing loads of them and him having Vulkan and lots of melta's and flamers as well.
Went down to the 6th Turn and lost narrowly on KP - good learning experience in some areas - where I should have charged and where not, target selection etc........
Going to go back to 2 Dominions and give St C some Seraphim support I think.
I'm looking forward to the new Inquisition Codex coming out in November. It will certainly open up some new possibilities and builds for AS.
My hope is that we get Battle Brother status with (at least) the Ordo Hereticus portion of the Codex. If there is one portion of our new Codex I am not totally happy with it's the HQ selections. I think an Inquisitor (think Coteaz) with Battle Brother status in our current builds would really help buff our units.
It'll be interesting what other types of units will be available for us, maybe some Skyfire weapons or psychic abilities would be nice.
It appears that Inquisition will fit in your FOC and not take up the ally slot. Which, when coupled with the FW rules, means we get C:SM as battle brothers. That will open a lot of possibilities.
I am sad to say how few games I've gotten in with the new book. Work is just kicking my arse, and of course, other gaming distractions. But I hear a lot of positive reports coming from various forums im on.
pretre wrote: It appears that Inquisition will fit in your FOC and not take up the ally slot. Which, when coupled with the FW rules, means we get C:SM as battle brothers. That will open a lot of possibilities.
What FW stuff would make Marines our Battle Brothers?
pretre wrote: It appears that Inquisition will fit in your FOC and not take up the ally slot. Which, when coupled with the FW rules, means we get C:SM as battle brothers. That will open a lot of possibilities.
What FW stuff would make Marines our Battle Brothers?
Red Hunters, I believe. Their Chapter Tactic says that any GK or AS army with an Inquisitor HQ is Battle Brothers with them. Made absolutely no sense until they announced this new codex.
They also have a good normal tactic as well:
The Red Hunters (Progenitors: Unknown) The Red Hunters Chapter is tied to the Inquisition by ancient bonds of honour and duty. Fighting in Inquisitorial strike forces and providing honour guards for the most senior of Inquisitor-lords, the Red Hunters have confronted numerous horrors no mortals can face and be allowed to live should they survive, lest they taint others. As such, the Chapter’s line brethren are routinely mind-scoured to preserve their souls, a fact that makes them even more valuable weapons in the hands of the secretive and often necessarily brutal Inquisition. Through repeated mind scouring and deep-core psycho-indoctrination, Red Hunters brethren are instilled with countless subconscious battle doctrines which are only activated by the act of making war.
Mnemonic Redaction Protocols: All models with Chapter Tactics (Red Hunters) have the Adamantium Will special rule. In addition, once per game at the beginning of any one player turn, the controlling player may declare that a number of their units with Chapter Tactics (Red Hunters), including Dreadnoughts, equal to the number of the turn being played will have one of the following special rules, chosen by the controlling player, until the beginning of their next turn. For example, if the protocols are activated in Turn 3, then three units may choose a single special rule from the following to apply: • Counter-attack • Monster Hunter • Tank Hunters • Hatred • Skyfire • Interceptor
By this Seal: When using the Allies Matrix, all models in the Red Hunters detachment count units from Codex: Grey Knights and Sisters of Battle as Battle Brothers so long
pretre wrote: It appears that Inquisition will fit in your FOC and not take up the ally slot. Which, when coupled with the FW rules, means we get C:SM as battle brothers. That will open a lot of possibilities.
What FW stuff would make Marines our Battle Brothers?
The Red Hunters (Progenitors: Unknown) By this Seal: When using the Allies Matrix, all models in the Red Hunters detachment count units from Codex: Grey Knights and Sisters of Battle as Battle Brothers so long as an Inquisitor is also present in the allied detachment.
the more I think about it, the more I would play 3 Pen engines if we could cast invisibility on them... watch your oponent shake in his boots as he's trying to kill stuff walking up on a 2+ cover save that can decimate his lines.
Edit:
how about this?
Standard 20 sister blob we've been talking about. Attach a lvl3 librarian. walk up with the penitent engines in the middle of that group so the engines have a 5+ cover, 2+ with invisibility.
When the time comes, open up the front rank and let the engines charge whatever you want.
Unit also goes to a 3+ deny the witch with what Librarian which would be nice... all assuming we get those battle brother shenanigans.
Would be well worth it I think. No one wants to have those walkers in their back lines. Their downside is how fragile they are to shoot down or kill in assault.
With a 2+ cover save and everything hitting them on 5s (invisibility) they get incredibly reliable.
Plus you get bonus points for being super fluffy by having your sisters bear witness to heretics trying to redeem themselves
Don't want to play Penitent engines? Repentias would be just as nasty standing in the middle of that sister blob. 2+ cover.. only hit on 5s in assault and then they have their 3+ feel no pain for anything hitting them. Want to be mean? Attach a Priest and Celestine before they charge. Get that re-roll armor up and watch anything crumble as Celestine tanks all the hits and Repentias go to town giving Celestine a 3+ feel no pain as well.
For the moment, my main option is to put them on a Shapeways store.
When I get enough money together to set it up, I'll be able to get a high quality master made, and start casting in resin, with only the Condemnor needing a slight rework to be castable (bow will need to be seperate, but that's not hard to do).
Maybe I should look at doing a KickStarter just to get enough together for a decent casting set up and so I can afford to expand the designs?
I had no idea people could even do that. I'd always thought of 3D printing as a not-quite-mature technology for companies to build scale models of their designs quickly and for , um, eccentrics to print .22 pistols that fire one shot if you're lucky (and if you're not , they blow up in your hand).
KalashnikovMarine wrote: I love that Condemnor! Except for the bolt head. It's just a bit... off for some reason.
If you can think of how to make it better, I'm open to suggestions.
Through Shapeways, an entire Contemptor Boltgun is looking to be about £4... but would anyone actually pay that is the question?
I'll look at what it'd take for a Kickstarter I think...
I say we should hold off on getting too excited until the thing gets a FAQ. It could go really hard one way or another. I'd hate to invest time, money, and resources into the things and have them turned back into another useless piece of wargear.
SisterSydney wrote: I had no idea people could even do that. I'd always thought of 3D printing as a not-quite-mature technology for companies to build scale models of their designs quickly and for , um, eccentrics to print .22 pistols that fire one shot if you're lucky (and if you're not , they blow up in your hand).
Most people seem to think it can do anything amazingly fast, or that it can't do that much.
The main limitations are the need for decent 3D models (which as a CAD designer, I already know how to make to a production standard), and time, aswell as the initial cost of the printer.
It's like all these people that think it'll put GW out of business - 1 printer, just printing, will take 3-6 months of constant printing to pay itself off, (Some £2500 once you include thread and power use) if just printing GW models instead of buying (and that's not including 3D models...).
But if you make masters, then cast, it's a much more viable proposition, and if I do a Kickstarter, it'll be to cover initial casting material and high quality masters. (One day I'll get my own 3D printer too, but not anytime soon.)
Take Anvil Industries for example (fantastic guy and I love, and own, a good portion of his work):
Spoiler:
3D model: Printed Master: Resin Cast:
I love the process of design to production you can do now.
TheKbob wrote: I say we should hold off on getting too excited until the thing gets a FAQ. It could go really hard one way or another. I'd hate to invest time, money, and resources into the things and have them turned back into another useless piece of wargear.
If I do a Kickstarter it'll be for more than Condemnors at least.
I've also done up some Faith counters (to keep track of which units have any left):
Spoiler:
Fleur De Lis Counter
And there's this already complete (shameless plug time ):
Spoiler:
Mk.GD Chevalier Heavy Rifle Mk.GD Chevalier Heavy Rifle with Combat Blade Mk.GD Chevalier Twin Heavy Rifle with High Cap Mag With Scope Mk.GD Chevalier Heavy Rifle with Flamethrower Mk.GD Chevalier Heavy Rifle with Crossbow Mk.GD Mag MK.GD High Cap Mag Mk.G Chevalier Heavy Rifles with Power Bayonets: Axe, Mace, Hammer, Sword, Lance, Claw, Fist, Heavy Fist, Heavy Hammer, Shield D66, DLd, D36
(The dice are a D36, Ld and D66) With the CombiMelta and CombiPlasma in the works (Not sure if any sisters can take it, but someone might want it anyway...) And a full set of Pistols (Bolt, Flame, Melta, Plasma), Special, Heavy and Power weapons in the production queue, plus more beside, here's hoping I can manage it...
Just wanted to post this here to try and get some feedback. It's a bit of an update on what I was using under the WD codex that I really liked, though I finally converted up some Repressors and dropped my Retributors for a third Exorcist. I'm kind of liking the high AV style mech list over the idea of MSU immolator spam (though I've ordered a few more Immos to try the other route out). How's this look?
HQ Saint Celestine – 135
Troops
Battle Sister Squad
-Flamer (x2)
-Repressor
Total – 205
Battle Sister Squad
-Flamer
-Heavy Flamer
-Repressor
Total – 210
Fast Attack
Seraphim Squad (x9)
-Two hand Flamers (x2)
Total – 155
I had good luck with it tonight against SM and GK (It was a 2k 2v1). I know that some people think Celestine got neutered, but I'm loving the S5 and more reliable resurrection. She normally only tended to die once or twice a game for me even under the old system anyway, and more than once I'd roll under a four several turns in a row. She and the Seraphim just mulched through two purifier squads, an assault marine squad, and a tactical squad. I know its a bit low on troops, but otherwise I'm liking it.
Once there's an FAQ on Condemnors, I think I'll drop one of the Seraphim and the last heavy flamer and pick up two Condemnors on my BSS Superiors, but for now I really don't want to jump on board without some clarification. They're awesome for moment, but I don't want to be stuck with the models if GW rules the wrong way.
Finally had my first game with the new dex. 1500 pts vs Blood Angels, Hammer and Anvil set u, big guns never tire was the mission.
My take home from the game is that getting your AoF off at the right moment is pretty damn critical. Preferred Enemy can be brutal, especially from the blob. Fearless from the priests seems pretty essential especially on the fragile small squads as it makes them very handy for tieing units up for a turn or irritating them with what could be considered ignorable damage output.
I had Loud Hailers on all my vehicles and they certainly helped get my AoF, saying that I suspect they were only so useful as my opponent didn't really go after my transports, so i think against a shooty army they wouldn't really be worth it as my transports would get popped alot quicker. Maybe put them on half and run them in pairs.
A convining win overall, but I did have the advantage as I know the BA dex well so I knew what I could expect from his units.
I'll reserve judgement until I've played more games but overall I'm pretty happy with how they're playing out so far.
*face palm* my new Exorcist was delivered.... to my old address... 1700 miles away... feth. One of my friends is running over to see if it's still on the porch/in the mail box or if one of the neighbors picked it up for me. It's a good neighborhood so I doubt it went walk about. The bad part is by the time it gets to me, temperatures might drop far enough as to prevent me from painting.
SisterSydney wrote: I had no idea people could even do that. I'd always thought of 3D printing as a not-quite-mature technology for companies to build scale models of their designs quickly and for , um, eccentrics to print .22 pistols that fire one shot if you're lucky (and if you're not , they blow up in your hand).
Most people seem to think it can do anything amazingly fast, or that it can't do that much.
The main limitations are the need for decent 3D models (which as a CAD designer, I already know how to make to a production standard), and time, aswell as the initial cost of the printer.
It's like all these people that think it'll put GW out of business - 1 printer, just printing, will take 3-6 months of constant printing to pay itself off, (Some £2500 once you include thread and power use) if just printing GW models instead of buying (and that's not including 3D models...).
But if you make masters, then cast, it's a much more viable proposition, and if I do a Kickstarter, it'll be to cover initial casting material and high quality masters. (One day I'll get my own 3D printer too, but not anytime soon.)
Aha. So you are using it for rapid prototyping rather than mass production, in the sense that you're printing a master model and then doing the rest by conventional manufacturing processes. Interesting. I just learned something, thanks.
Unfortunately, that's a little beyond my ability at the moment.
Using Solidworks and the CAD design, doing mechanical stuff, that's pretty easy.
Doing organic looking stuff, that's hard.
There are ways to do it, and I intend to sit down and learn, but that'll be a ways off yet.
So maybe in the future.
I do intend to do a few vehicles though.
And after getting 'sensible' stuff out of the way, I'll be doing up some 'homebrew' stuff, like an assault vehicle model (and rules), a Condemnor Boltcannon, and fun things like that.
SisterSydney wrote: I had no idea people could even do that. I'd always thought of 3D printing as a not-quite-mature technology for companies to build scale models of their designs quickly and for , um, eccentrics to print .22 pistols that fire one shot if you're lucky (and if you're not , they blow up in your hand).
Most people seem to think it can do anything amazingly fast, or that it can't do that much.
The main limitations are the need for decent 3D models (which as a CAD designer, I already know how to make to a production standard), and time, aswell as the initial cost of the printer.
It's like all these people that think it'll put GW out of business - 1 printer, just printing, will take 3-6 months of constant printing to pay itself off, (Some £2500 once you include thread and power use) if just printing GW models instead of buying (and that's not including 3D models...).
But if you make masters, then cast, it's a much more viable proposition, and if I do a Kickstarter, it'll be to cover initial casting material and high quality masters. (One day I'll get my own 3D printer too, but not anytime soon.)
Aha. So you are using it for rapid prototyping rather than mass production, in the sense that you're printing a master model and then doing the rest by conventional manufacturing processes. Interesting. I just learned something, thanks.
Both actually. I will be putting it on Shapeways, which is a printing service, so people can just order 3D printed ones, and I'mgoing to try and start the casting thing too.
My wife has her first game this weekend with the new codex (she only played 2 games with the old codex, so she is still very new). She picked up a ADL this week, and I was wondering what would be best unit to stick behind it. Under the old codex i was going to have her take Rets with heavy bolters, but it seems that is no longer the in thing to take.
Heavy Bolter Rets with a Simulacrum for 2 lots of rending can still work.
And there's really no reason to shelve it, it's not a bad unit, just most people see the 3 Exorcists as better now, but the Rets will still do alright.
I'm also thinking of something like the Mk.GD Chevalier Heavy Rifle for the 'safe' name.
Ovion wrote: Heavy Bolter Rets with a Simulacrum for 2 lots of rending can still work.
And there's really no reason to shelve it, it's not a bad unit, just most people see the 3 Exorcists as better now, but the Rets will still do alright.
Thats what I was thinking as well, but wanted to check. She is dead set against running 3 Exorcists, she is all about the look and the "roleplay" of the game. So she wants to run 1 Exorcist, 1 Squad of Pent engines .
Which leaves me to figure out how to run it, and to teach her lol (gotta love being married)
Also plan to stick the Exorcist behind the ADL for most fights.
Some more good news - I was talking to a store manager and he said the Sisters sold very very very well - much better than expected - even outselling Marines
Mr Morden wrote: Some more good news - I was talking to a store manager and he said the Sisters sold very very very well - much better than expected - even outselling Marines
In other super positive news! My mail forwarding caught the package and it should be waiting for me when I get home! Eeee~ New toy to bling out and make all ornate and awesome to rain fire upon the Emperor's foes!
Mr Morden wrote: Sorry I meant that Sisters Codex outsold all the others apparently
Oh nuts, still have to pay my GW tax and get an actual copy of the AS book....
Will have to check my bank balance, unless anyone was nice enough to buy it for me (I realise no one will, but I can dream!)
Nice to see that Sisters got the love they deserved though.
Not sure how your store manager got that information.
My games-workshop store manager the last time I spoke with him was disappointed for two things:
1. He expected them to sell well, but had no way of actually finding out they did since that information was not released to him.
2. He does not have any way of actually selling the codex since it's only through black library digital and thus can't get an average on how his store does compared to others to get theorical numbers.
I am also hoping they sold well... but better than marines? If we're talking about the Imperial Fist supplement.. that is possible, but the actual marine book? I doubt that is possible.
Mr Morden wrote: Some more good news - I was talking to a store manager and he said the Sisters sold very very very well - much better than expected - even outselling Marines
Hope this is true. I mean, it seemed like the Internet was pretty enthusiastic about it? I even saw people on /tg/ saying that they wouldn't pirate it, which was pleasantly surprising.
Perhaps somebody should ask the digital editions facebook about how they sold? Don't know if they'd answer. though.
CoteazRox wrote: It was at shortly #6 on iBooks under topsellers.
Good to know!
We should be getting that physical release, then. Anyone know how long it normally takes for a supplement to get a physcial release? A couple of months, right?
Troike wrote: I even saw people on /tg/ saying that they wouldn't pirate it, which was pleasantly surprising.
Day 1 though they scan beggers came out of the woodwork on /tg/ though which severely disappointed me.
Yeah, I regret saying that I was able to get it down to a 15 page PDF. I must have gotten a dozen or so PMs asking for it.
I kept telling them to just spend their own damn money instead of trying to take mine.
Yeah, I mean, I have a copy atm for reference, but I didn't ask anyone for it and won't 'use' (play any games with) it until I've got a legitimate copy.
And as soon as my bank balance isn't quite so crippled, I'll be buying it. Just a pain in the ass that I was waiting / had a bit put by for it, then a whole ton of stuff came together and went 'HA, screw your bank balance!', but such is life, and bills are more important.
ClockworkZion wrote: Day 1 though they scan beggers came out of the woodwork on /tg/ though which severely disappointed me.
Yeah, I had to stop going there for a while. But it is /tg/, all 40K stuff gets pirated over there. Though this is the only occasion I saw some people saying that they wouldn't pirate it, which was something.
ClockworkZion wrote: Day 1 though they scan beggers came out of the woodwork on /tg/ though which severely disappointed me.
Yeah, I had to stop going there for a while. But it is /tg/, all 40K stuff gets pirated over there. Though this is the only occasion I saw some people saying that they wouldn't pirate it, which was something.
I'm willing to bet some of the ones who claimed they wouldn't still did. I was disappoint.
I was tempted to buy the digital edition, but I have some reserve about it. Specifically, I couldn't get a reliable answer about if I could transfer it between my phone and computer, because I'd rather read it on my computer (bigger monitor) and have it on my phone for reference in a pinch.
If they put out a physical book, I'll probably grab that instead unless I feel like risking the $30 and end up with a book on my phone that I have to strain my eyes even more to stare at, or worse have to get some terrible reader and have it be an eye sore.
NydusTemplar wrote: I was tempted to buy the digital edition, but I have some reserve about it. Specifically, I couldn't get a reliable answer about if I could transfer it between my phone and computer, because I'd rather read it on my computer (bigger monitor) and have it on my phone for reference in a pinch.
If they put out a physical book, I'll probably grab that instead unless I feel like risking the $30 and end up with a book on my phone that I have to strain my eyes even more to stare at, or worse have to get some terrible reader and have it be an eye sore.
If you buy the .epub or .mobi (not the iTunes) than you can freely transfer it between phone, computer and any other digital devices you want according to their license.
I, for example, read it on my computer freely and can transfer it to my phone whenever I want.
If I remember the agreement, black library gives permission to download the ebook version an unlimited number of times on an unlimited number of devices, as long as it's for your own use.
I thought that was downright magnanimous considering how draconian security has become on digital products these days.
Is there any news on a FAQ for the Adepta Sororitas Codex - A few issues have arrisen about the Condemnor Boltgun and also that there is technically not a line on the Ally matrix to allow you to use Sororitas with other armies. thanks
got the reply
Hi Charles, Yes, we have some rules questions passed on to the rules team, so we have an FAQ on the way.
so followed up with:
thanks good to know I have heard that the AS Codex sold amazingly well - can you give us any idea of how well it did?
Unless they price them more reasonably I'll never buy a GW ebook, despite the relatively (for the industry) good drm/what a licence gets you stance.
I will also happily pirate the ebook if they don't come out with a physical copy in. Reasonable time and for a reasonable price. Their normal prices are within the zone of "reasonable" for sisters, given what they are, but I'm not a fanof that price point.
Nobody_Holme wrote: Unless they price them more reasonably I'll never buy a GW ebook, despite the relatively (for the industry) good drm/what a licence gets you stance.
I will also happily pirate the ebook if they don't come out with a physical copy in. Reasonable time and for a reasonable price. Their normal prices are within the zone of "reasonable" for sisters, given what they are, but I'm not a fanof that price point.
Seriously?
It costs what it costs. Applying your own 'reasonable' tag just makes you look like an immature thief. Get over yourself.
pretre wrote: If you buy the .epub or .mobi (not the iTunes) than you can freely transfer it between phone, computer and any other digital devices you want according to their license.
I, for example, read it on my computer freely and can transfer it to my phone whenever I want.
Quo wrote: If I remember the agreement, black library gives permission to download the ebook version an unlimited number of times on an unlimited number of devices, as long as it's for your own use.
I thought that was downright magnanimous considering how draconian security has become on digital products these days.
See, this is the part I was curious about. I was rather doubtful of how the drm and such went. If I can have it on both my phone and my computer without paying twice, I'm fine with it. But if I have to shuffle around one copy between them, than I'm not biting.
However, in the spirit of the thread, I'm thinking of running some Retributors with Heavy Flamers in an Immolator behind a pair of Exorcists acting as line backers. Thinking of using that front armor 13 to block for the squishier box in order to disgorge those rending Heavy Flamers somewhere good. Thoughts? I know Exorcists are typically used as 48" artillery pieces, but seeing as how they can take more hits than the other boxes, figured it might be worth a shot.
I'll be putting them on Shapeways in the next day or two, and will start pricing up what I need for a Kickstarter (actual info on that will go in a new thread).
@Zion
Oooh, Argent Shroud banner bearer. Very nice. Be sure to post pics once she's painted up.
@Ovion
Small nitpick, but I did notice earlier that one of your bolters had the Inquisition's symbol on it. An I with lines going through it. The Sisters wouldn't have that on their guns, since they're not Inquisitorial troops.
Troike wrote: @Ovion Small nitpick, but I did notice earlier that one of your bolters had the Inquisition's symbol on it. An I with lines going through it. The Sisters wouldn't have that on their guns, since they're not Inquisitorial troops.
Looking very nice otherwise!
Ah, I'm still semi-new to the Imperial side of things, and there's tons of crossed I's all over sisters, aswell as on the Condemnor reference I used, which is why I chose the Inquisitorial seal. But a little extra research now tells me it's the symbol of the Adeptus Ministorum, which uses a plain I, an I with a skull, a single crossed line, or a circle with points around it. I'll go rectify that now.
- Now fixed and updated in the renders above.
I'm quite happy with how these turned out, and I think the 'neutral' names are pretty sound. I did up the Plasma and Grav options, partially because I wanted to and partially because someone might actually want those options for something.
inmygravenimage wrote: They're looking great mate. Some possible extras might be melta/flamer body for making heavies/twin links, or small icons of fleurs, roses, =][= etc.
Melta/Flamer bodies? You mean just Meltas/Flamers?
Special, Heavy and Pistol weapons are all on the list to do. What size of Iconography? (2mm?, 5mm?)
I should probably start a new thread for this too at this point... - What section though? News and Rumours?
Troike wrote: @Zion
Oooh, Argent Shroud banner bearer. Very nice. Be sure to post pics once she's painted up.
That's still a ways off due to needing to strip her old paint off first (to make that easier I plan to soak her in Simple Green for a week, it does the trick usually).
I decided to steal the idea and use the last one for one of my own priests. Fear not, the company is very much ISO compliant when it comes to the ratio of women wearing clothing to not.
Hey guys, check out my battle against Amerikon's Sisters of Battle. In the report, I face his very scary Uriah-priest-bomb + Immo-spam....with my even scarier Herald Hammer daemons. Battle report still in progress.
I think a good benchmark for how good the new Sisters are is how they can fare against arguably the 4 strongest armies currently - Eldar, Tau, Necrons and Daemons (or some permutation of). Do the Sisters have what it takes against Daemons? Find out in Amerikon's report.
So I found out today that the Rogue Trader being held locally in December will be 1750 instead of 1500. With all the changes to the book this has me contemplating what I'll bring (assuming I play of course). Guess my first action shold be to sit down and points out what my usualy list looks like then go from there.
Oh and after looking at the Flagellant box again I think I'm going to pick them up becuase they really look like they'd make decent priests. I might get a boc of Catachan too for kitbashing purposes too.
So, today I finally managed to get a game in with my friend's tournament Tau. Really wished I had remembered to take pictures so I could do a proper battle report. If its too long, let me know and I'll post it into the actual battle report forum. Here was my list:
So, this game I learned just how painful Interceptor can be. We were playing Bay Area Open Style with Big Guns being the primary worth 4 points and the Relic being worth 3. Deployment was hammer and anvil and no night fight. I had both Dominions (Canoness was with one of them), the Stormtalon and Sternguard in reserves. Tau failed to steal the initiative.
Deployment:
The Tau vehicles castled up behind some hills, firewarriors deployed in a line across the deployment and the two pathfinder squads were deployed close to the deployment edge. I deployed my two Immos right at the edge of my deployment and the Exorcists behind LoS ruins.
Turn 1
Well I moved forward with my Immos, going cruising speed along with spreading out my Exorcists around the building. Both Pods with the Tacticals came in, scattered a little bit backwards, but managed to still land within rapid fire range. And that's when some pain was felt. Riptide failed to get its gun off with a 2 on the nova charge, and failed its FNP. Its Blaster still killed a lone Marine. But the Commanders unit had no problem as it unleashed a fury of missiles, which then slammed into the marines. It wouldn't of been that bad, but out of 8 wounds, I failed 6 armor saves! Ouch. That was first blood right there. So, with that I had one squad left which opened fire at some pathfinders and only killed one after they went to ground. Immos flatted out and Exorcists opened fire, taking 2 of the non-Commander crisis suits and their Shield Drones with them.
Tau T1:
Tau shuffled a little bit, but moved into position to let loose hell. Firewarriors combined with some shots from Pathfinders and one Ionhead went ahead and wiped my last Tac squad with little trouble. Railhead took a shot at my Exorcist but I passed my cover save. Another Firewarrior squad across the table rapid fired into a Battle Sisters Immo and wrecked it. That was Tau's turn.
AS Turn 2:
All my reserves came in! That was quite good luck. For outflanking, one Dom squad came in on the left table edge and disembarked, all within melta range, next to all his heavy support, but the other came on the right side where no vehicles were in range :(. Sternguard dropped in front of two of his clumped up Firewarror squads, ready to roast some fish people, and the Stormtalon moved 36" to get in range of his Firewarrior squad (the same on the Sternguard were after). The sisters of the wrecked Immo ran into where the relic was and took cover in the ruin.
Interceptor unfortunately gave me problems here again. Combined fire from the both Crisis wiped all but one SG, who promptly ran away. Coward. Riptide chose not to Nova, and only managed to kill one Dominion from the left side edge squad. That Dom squad let loose, passed their act of faith, and fried an Ion head. MM on other Immo penned the second Ionhead, but it passed its jink. Exorcists fired into Commanders unit, took an astonishing 2 wounds off the Commander after 2 failed LoS, as well killing both Drones. I was rolling absurdly high for the Exos this game. They rolled 5s or 6s almost every turn. Stormtalon fired into a firewarrior squad and only killed 2 after they went to ground.
Tau T2:
Tau moved a little bit more, the Commanders unit backing away out of range from one of my Exos while the Riptide walking up next to the ruins with the Relic in it, ready to clear out the Sisters who were threatening to claim it. Tau then fired. They quickly vanquished 3 Doms and the Immolator that killed the Ionhead. Railhead took a shot at my Exo, but failed to do anything (passed my cover again). Other two firewarrior squads took a hull point off one Battle Sister Immo, and one off the other Dominino Immolator. The lone crisis suit charged the fleeing Sternguard, who overwatched and took a wound off the Suit (Heavy Flamer), but failed his leadership again and without even getting to swing (because he was still fleeing, but ....I realize I might have misplayed this now...crap. Forgot he had ATSKNF!)
AS T3:
Sisters of the wrecked Immo shuffled a little bit, trying to hide a bit more. Other Sisters Immo rolled forward and disembarked, getting both flamers onto one of his firewarrior squad. This time, those Warriors would get fried. Exos shuffled and the last Dom squad drove forward 6" and readied its MM at the Commanders unit. Stormtalon flew 18" and in range of several things.
Shooting from the Sisters squad saw an entire firewarrior squad melt beneath holy flamer and bolters. The MM from the Doms Immo failed to do anything (went to ground with the Commanders unit and passed the cover save). One Exo fired into the Commanders unit, rolled a 5, and gibbed another two suits. The other Exo fired into the Riptide, rolled a 4, hit with 3, and then did 3 wounds! Amazing accuracy. Even better though, was the saves. The Riptide took all missiles to the face, failing 3 4+ cover saves, and all its FNP! Just like the it was down to 1 wound. Unfortunately though, I took the bait and fired the other 5x Battle sister squad and Stormtalon into it, hoping to kill it off. They didn't sadly.
Tau T3
Riptide and other units shuffled, getting into range of the now exposed BS squad that roasted the FW. Riptide turned around as well to attempt to kill them.
Shooting saw the Stormtalon blown out of the sky by snap firing missiles (who had gone to ground anyway) who got 3 pens and I failed all my jinks! Railhead fired into the Exo and failed to do anything even with Longstrike. Riptide, FW and Ionhead fired into the girls squad and killed 4 and the priest. The lone sister then ran away, taking cover behind the wrecked Immolator. Melta from the lone suit immobilized their Immolator.
AS T4
Despite much of my fire power being gone, I still had a good chance at winning the game. Even though I only have 1 full strength scoring unit and a lone sister, I was sitting both my Exos on objectives, and the full BS squad was holding the relic. Tau only had one unit within range of an objective. I just needed to survive two more turns of Tau shooting and pray the game ended on turn 5. If it did, I had a good chance at winning the game
Movement consisted of only one Exorcist shuffling to get into a better firing arc onto the Riptide. Everything else of out of range. The other was out of range of everything sadly. The lone sister managed to rally and consolidated into cover. Last Dom squad rolled another 6" and unloaded. The Canoness and her retinue ready to fire into the Commanders unit.
Shooting: Fate was not meant to be in the Riptides his favor as the Exorcist fired 2 shots into it, hit with one and wounded. The Riptide then proceeded to fail his 3+ invuln (which it did last turn) and his FNP. It really should have taken more than the 7 shots I poured into it to kill it. With rolls like that, I almost felt bad for it. Almost. :lol: The immobilized Immolator took a shot at the lone suit, and gibbed it with the MM. The Dom's Immolator fired into the suits and failed to do anything after GTG cover saves. However, Canoness and her retinue quickly remedied this. Unloading all ignore cover meltas the Commander and lone unit was liquidated.
Tau T4:
The Tau shuffled a little bit to get into range of the Doms as well as claim another Big Guns objective. The Ionhead moved forward 6" to claim his other Big Guns objective.
Shooting: Both Firewarrior squads fired into the Canonness and her squad, only wiping out her and one Dominon. Ionhead fired into my drop pods having no other target and only took 2 hull points off one. Railhead again failed to do anything against my Exorcist.
AS T5
Doms piled into their Immolator and drove onto the objective to hopefully contest in case of a turn 6 (although I really needed it to end this turn!) Exos both shuffled on their objectives. Relic Sisters cowered a little more, trying to get even deeper into cover.
Shooting:
Exorcist fired into the Railhead and did nothing.
Tau T5
One squad of FW inched forward to just make sure they were in range of the Big Guns objective.
Shooting:
Railhead fired into Dom Immolators and popped it. Firewarriors then torrented the Dominions inside. Ionhead immobilized one of my Exorcists. Pathfinders, instead of firing markerlights, killed the BS holding the Relic, despite my careful attempts to keep them out of LoS.
We rolled to see if the game continued and it did! Crap. Now, there was a good chance I was going to lose this game.
AS T6
No movement as I only had the 2 Exorcists and the lone sister left.
Shooting:
Exorcist fired into Railhead, penned, but he passed his cover save.
Tau T6
No movement
Shooting: It took 6 turns, but the Railhead finally blew up the Exorcist with the help of markerlights. With that, we called the game as it was obvious that there was no way to win with only one heavy and one sister left.
Total score was 5-3. I had one heavy kill, 1 Big Guns objective and Warlord. Tau had 2 objectives, First Blood, one Heavy and Warlord.
It was an incredibly close game up until turn 5. Had it ended then I would've walked away bloody and beaten, but with a win in hand. Unfortunately it continued, and as I feared, interceptor took out a lot of my punch. With a full Tactical Squad wiped out before they even shot hurt so much. It allowed the distribution of markerlights to flow all too freely. I still had a surprising amount of firepower given the punishment I took, so I wonder had I not lost so much, how damage this list could put out.
It has also made me consider dropping the Sternguard in place of an Ironclad with Heavy Flamers for a little more durability versus small arms with the same infantry killing power. Or, replacing them with Legion of the Damned with a Combi-Melta, Meltagun, and Heavy Flamer to save on points, capitalize on the number of ignore cover Melta, and allow the Librarian to get Terminator Armor to tank wounds for a Tactical Squad.
Good read on the battle reps (and personally, i like them in here because it does showcase tactics). One thing I would suggest is to use the 'spoilers' tags so it isn't a wall of text.
From what i've seen though, the priest deathstar isn't really a deathstar. I guess in hand to hand it may be all right at it... but I'm going to think of it as a slightly more durable guard blob.
We really need a clarification to the condemner bolt gun. I like the concept but really dont' want to do the modeling until I know how it works.
Nice report, and it's nice to see the Sisters doing well against a top army.
As you were going first did you consider scouting rather than outflanking the Doms. The could hit a unit 36" from their starting position (12" scout, 6" move' 6" disembark & 12" range on meltaguns), although they tend to be a one hit wonder when they do that, but the potential alpha strike could gut the Tau firepower when combined with your 2 exorcists.
What were you thoughts on how your various units performed, and would you change anything going into your next battle ?
Rathstar
PS. The riptides couldn't nova charge on the 1st turn when you deepstriked in with drop pods. Nova charging is done at the start of the Tau's players movement phase. Was it a failed Gets Hot roll from Overcharging the Ion Cannon (but that only fails on a 1, and he gets his 2+ armour save) ?
KelCJ wrote: So, today I finally managed to get a game in with my friend's tournament Tau. Really wished I had remembered to take pictures so I could do a proper battle report. If its too long, let me know and I'll post it into the actual battle report forum. Here was my list:
It has also made me consider dropping the Sternguard in place of an Ironclad with Heavy Flamers for a little more durability versus small arms with the same infantry killing power. Or, replacing them with Legion of the Damned with a Combi-Melta, Meltagun, and Heavy Flamer to save on points, capitalize on the number of ignore cover Melta, and allow the Librarian to get Terminator Armor to tank wounds for a Tactical Squad.
Kind of a weak tau list, but if you're going black don't go back. All girls all the time. SM don't bring anything to an SoB army. Or at least sternguard don't.
Good, detailed battle report. (Though I guess spoiler tags are a good idea for those who don't want to read it). Thanks.
Tactical question: you say you got lucky killing the Riptide, but it didn't seem to do much damage to you compared to the other Tau units, either. I've read elsewhere on this forum that Riptides are more of a DISTRACTION CARNIFEX unit that scares you into expending a lot of firepower on them but are in fast generally best ignored while you kill Tau troops (who can claim objectives) and other units that do a lot more killing relative to their point cost than the Riptide. Having had this experience, do you think you spent too much time shooting at the riptide (even though you got lucky) or just about enough?
Rathstar wrote:Nice report, and it's nice to see the Sisters doing well against a top army.
As you were going first did you consider scouting rather than outflanking the Doms. The could hit a unit 36" from their starting position (12" scout, 6" move' 6" disembark & 12" range on meltaguns), although they tend to be a one hit wonder when they do that, but the potential alpha strike could gut the Tau firepower when combined with your 2 exorcists.
What were you thoughts on how your various units performed, and would you change anything going into your next battle ?
Rathstar
PS. The riptides couldn't nova charge on the 1st turn when you deepstriked in with drop pods. Nova charging is done at the start of the Tau's players movement phase. Was it a failed Gets Hot roll from Overcharging the Ion Cannon (but that only fails on a 1, and he gets his 2+ armour save) ?
I did consider scouting the Dominions since the Riptide was definitely in range as he was pretty close to the edge of deployment, but my main targets were the suits and his vehicles. Since I was deploying first were I scouting I felt that he could counter deploy his squishy units to keep me out of range and then just torrent their Immolators with no problem. That and I've had a lot of luck with outflanking lately. With outflanking I felt I could get into a much better position. And it turns out I think I did. But what I also failed to mention is that I didn't capitalize on the second Doms outflank (the ones that didn't blow up an Ionhead) , and only moved it 6" when it came on as opposed to full speed to put pressure onto the rest of his vehicles the following turn. It was about 24" away from being able to threaten anything.
However, admittedly I am still a new Sisters player. This was probably only my 5-6th game with them, and only 3rd with the new dex.
I'm not entirely happy with how the Sternguard preformed. They were originally intended to be a bit of a swiss army knife squad. If I needed a vehicle dead T1, they would be there, or if I needed some infantry roasted they would also be there. They were ways to get accurate Heavy Flamers and Melta down while the rest of my force took its time getting into position. However, they unfortunately did very little this game. I somewhat expected this though as it was an interceptor list. Perhaps they would do much better against one that lacked this. I would need to play test more, but I have considered dropping them to for LoTD and their all the time, not one time use only, ignore cover meltas...because why not . This would also free up points to throw in a Whirlwind as well as buff up the Tactical Squads to 10 man, or alternatively, give the Libby TDA to tank small arms fire for them. Still unsure of the priests in this list, I didn't really have a chance to use them. They did save one squad from having to run away after losing 4 BS though.
I was happy with the Dominions and Exorcist performance this game. They probably carried me through it with all the fire they dished out and absorbed. BSS did okay. Most glorious moment was roasting an entire Firewarrior squad with the Heavy Flamer. It was his fault he clumped up though. . Tactical squad probably would have done better had they not been blown of the table first turn. Stormtalon too had I not taken the Riptide bait. Overall, I am actually quite happy with how the list performed. I think if I were to face Wave Serpent spam or another strong SM list I could handle it.
Also, you may be right. I think we misplayed that. Thanks for pointing that out!
Asmodai Asmodean wrote:
KelCJ wrote: So, today I finally managed to get a game in with my friend's tournament Tau. Really wished I had remembered to take pictures so I could do a proper battle report. If its too long, let me know and I'll post it into the actual battle report forum. Here was my list:
It has also made me consider dropping the Sternguard in place of an Ironclad with Heavy Flamers for a little more durability versus small arms with the same infantry killing power. Or, replacing them with Legion of the Damned with a Combi-Melta, Meltagun, and Heavy Flamer to save on points, capitalize on the number of ignore cover Melta, and allow the Librarian to get Terminator Armor to tank wounds for a Tactical Squad.
Kind of a weak tau list, but if you're going black don't go back. All girls all the time. SM don't bring anything to an SoB army. Or at least sternguard don't.
The list is deceptive in its strength. Currently, he is undefeated through 11 matches with this list including victories against two of our groups best players who run very strong SM lists and are very good players. Though I do agree, it's not the Riptide spam we have all come to know and love. My friend openly admits he hates running Tau the netlist Riptide spam. He is attempting to create a strong Tau list without being forced to resort to that. Thus far, I think he has done that.
I would love to go all Sisters, but I don't have the money or the models to flesh out a full force. So, I'm sort of forced to run SM to get a game above 1k with them. That being said, I don't think they are a hinderance to the list. I think Space Marines can be valuable allies as they can sort of pin down a force through Drop Pod and TFC use (I sadly, don't own a TFC :( ) as well as being able to drop accurate Melta first turn and allow our basic BSS to get into position. Think of them as the tank of the force. Aggroing all the bad things away.
That doesn't mean I don't think I can improve on the list more.
SisterSydney wrote:Good, detailed battle report. (Though I guess spoiler tags are a good idea for those who don't want to read it). Thanks.
Tactical question: you say you got lucky killing the Riptide, but it didn't seem to do much damage to you compared to the other Tau units, either. I've read elsewhere on this forum that Riptides are more of a DISTRACTION CARNIFEX unit that scares you into expending a lot of firepower on them but are in fast generally best ignored while you kill Tau troops (who can claim objectives) and other units that do a lot more killing relative to their point cost than the Riptide. Having had this experience, do you think you spent too much time shooting at the riptide (even though you got lucky) or just about enough?
Honestly, the Riptide is a distraction Carnifex. I only ever shot at it when I didn't have anything else to shoot. Which is why I got lucky. On a normal day, there is no way that, literally, 8 shots from an Exorcist should kill it. Never, ever should that happen considering when I shot at it it had a 4+ cover and 5+ FNP. It didn't make a single FNP all game. I completely agree that focus should be on the weaker Tau units like FW, Pathfinders, Suits, and if they have vehicles, those too.
war wrote:Good read on the battle reps (and personally, i like them in here because it does showcase tactics). One thing I would suggest is to use the 'spoilers' tags so it isn't a wall of text.
From what i've seen though, the priest deathstar isn't really a deathstar. I guess in hand to hand it may be all right at it... but I'm going to think of it as a slightly more durable guard blob.
We really need a clarification to the condemner bolt gun. I like the concept but really dont' want to do the modeling until I know how it works.
Against the typical tau list with the bodyguard deathstar keeping a Dom unit or two in reserve could win the game for you. Clearly the report above doesn't have that deathstar but I've run into it several times now and I'm looking for a solution.
4+1 melta deny cover into that t4 2w unit could end its threat immediately. I need to look into this more...
Yea, i've seen the farsight + bodyguard unit with an amazing amount of firepower and the ability to deepstrike and to get some silly amounts of cover saves. I've hit them with Coteaz and his plasma cannon unit a couple times (great with perfect timing, and presence running).
I'd much rather have a totally sisters force (+ inquisition if it strikes me as useful). Good to have an answer for it from the AS list.
Honestly, the Riptide is a distraction Carnifex. I only ever shot at it when I didn't have anything else to shoot. Which is why I got lucky. On a normal day, there is no way that, literally, 8 shots from an Exorcist should kill it. Never, ever should that happen considering when I shot at it it had a 4+ cover and 5+ FNP. It didn't make a single FNP all game....
Ha. So it was basically "darn, these guys don't have anything useful to shoot at, guess I might chip away at the giant unkillable.... Oh. It died. Huh."
So I sat down to try and play with a list idea. I'm not a fan of the ol' Immospam personally, mostly because I know how fast units can die if you run them small, but that doesn't mean I don't want to avoid taking them completely. So here's me rough 1750 for next month's Rogue Trader. I'm open to suggestions of course.
Heavy Support - Total: 375 Exorcist
Exorcist
Exorcist
Total 1750
Models:
53 Infantry
8 Vehicles
61 Models Total
44% of Total Army Scoring
So obviously for me the biggest change was taking out a full sized squad of Repentia. I also left Jacobus out mostly due to cost. I haven't run a Battle Conclave in a while and honestly while I intent to run them in my fun lists, I don't really feel as confident in running them in a list I'd take to an event. Additionally my normal Horde I'd stick on my rear objective with Jacobus went down to a normal sized unit. Power Weapons went off the Superiors in favor of letting the Priests do that (since they can frankly do it better thanks to their Hymns)
In went the two Dominion squads, and half a Seraphim squad, as well as the two priests. Out went a single Bolter Sister in each squad so the Priest could fit and in went a Simulacrum to give them additional Acts of Faith uses. Because the Dominions -might- live through their first volley (if they're lucky) they got a Simulacrum as well (she'll through a Krak Grenade which will also ignore cover). With Exorcists getting a little cheaper I stuck with mostly due to wanting to not overspend on an Avenger.
Honestly, the Riptide is a distraction Carnifex. I only ever shot at it when I didn't have anything else to shoot. Which is why I got lucky. On a normal day, there is no way that, literally, 8 shots from an Exorcist should kill it. Never, ever should that happen considering when I shot at it it had a 4+ cover and 5+ FNP. It didn't make a single FNP all game....
Ha. So it was basically "darn, these guys don't have anything useful to shoot at, guess I might chip away at the giant unkillable.... Oh. It died. Huh."
Yeah, that was basically it . My friend was pretty mad about it...I would be too. It's like rolling 5 armor saves for a squad of terminators and then rolling all 1s...It's rather painful.
Zion-the list looks pretty solid to me. I actually kind of like bigger squads of basic Sisters. Yeah it's a little less killing power, but in exchange you're also have more staying power. Especially with the Priests. Plus, I guess one could argue with the additional staying power, you are actually getting some more firepower as its possible that the special weapons in the squad will actually make it to their target where a small 5 woman squad would not. . The only thing that kind of makes me a little uncomfortable is the small Seraphim squad. They probably aren't going to make it all the way across the field. Although I understand if the intention is just a delivery system for Celestine, in which case any damage they do is a bonus.
Honestly, the Riptide is a distraction Carnifex. I only ever shot at it when I didn't have anything else to shoot. Which is why I got lucky. On a normal day, there is no way that, literally, 8 shots from an Exorcist should kill it. Never, ever should that happen considering when I shot at it it had a 4+ cover and 5+ FNP. It didn't make a single FNP all game....
Ha. So it was basically "darn, these guys don't have anything useful to shoot at, guess I might chip away at the giant unkillable.... Oh. It died. Huh."
Yeah, that was basically it . My friend was pretty mad about it...I would be too. It's like rolling 5 armor saves for a squad of terminators and then rolling all 1s...It's rather painful.
Zion-the list looks pretty solid to me. I actually kind of like bigger squads of basic Sisters. Yeah it's a little less killing power, but in exchange you're also have more staying power. Especially with the Priests. Plus, I guess one could argue with the additional staying power, you are actually getting some more firepower as its possible that the special weapons in the squad will actually make it to their target where a small 5 woman squad would not. . The only thing that kind of makes me a little uncomfortable is the small Seraphim squad. They probably aren't going to make it all the way across the field. Although I understand if the intention is just a delivery system for Celestine, in which case any damage they do is a bonus.
That's a full 10 model Seraphim Squad. Sorry my short-handed listed confused you, it's supposed to convey I took a basic Seraphim squad and +5 additional Seraphim models.
Ahhhh my apologies. Not sure how I skimmed over that. I completely understood everything else, but for some reason took that as only a 5 sister Seraphim squad. Well then, I redact my previous statement. I think it's pretty solid now. The only other obvious worry is anti-air, but it's possible you can squeak by barring any triple Drake lists. Do you have any idea of what the general lists will be like for the RTT?
KelCJ wrote: Ahhhh my apologies. Not sure how I skimmed over that. I completely understood everything else, but for some reason took that as only a 5 sister Seraphim squad. Well then, I redact my previous statement. I think it's pretty solid now. The only other obvious worry is anti-air, but it's possible you can squeak by barring any triple Drake lists. Do you have any idea of what the general lists will be like for the RTT?
Sadly no. This is the first time in a while they've bumped things up over 1.5k. I think my bigger worries are honestly the New Marines, Eldar and Tau over Triple Drakes (and at least I get an Invul vs the Drakes).
Recently had the opportunity to get a unit of arcoflagellents into a unit of firewarriors.
Even the 5 arcos that were left just pulped the commie-space-fish. The one firewarrior that tried to swing back was hitting on 5+ and wiffed anyway.
Now i'm starting to wonder if I aught to bring some and send them at other tau units (looking at you Mr. Riptide). Catching it would be... tricky, but it could be an entertaining combat if it ever happened.
The Simulacrum is probably less useful in this squad than upgrading your SS to a VSS. Ld9 is like a 2+ roll on a D6, Ld8 is closer to a 3+ (its a little better, but still). So for a squad that's probably going to get stomped really quickly, making that Faith check more reliable is probably a better idea that trying to get a second use from it. Not to mention that in a small squad you're going to have to sacrifice melta Sisters to keep the Sim alive if you want to use that second act.
Not sure if it's been mentioned here but the digital codex has been updated. The condemnor boltgun rules were updated so that now it procs when it hits an individual psyker. No longer procs upon hitting a unit.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Looks the same to me:
Psi-shock: Any unit with the Pskyer, Brotherhood of Psykers or Psychic Pilot special rules that is hit by a weapon with this special rule suffers the Perils of the Warp in addition to any other damage.
Not sure if it matters but I have the ibook edition. Under the troops/elites/hq etc section if you click on one of the blue hyperlinks for ranged weapons and scroll down to the description of psi-shock you'll see the difference.
Edit: Also in chapter 4 if you just click on the hyperlink for condemnor boltgun you'll see the changed psi-shock rule. Same for when you click on the hyperlink for psi-shock under the condemnor boltgun at the end of chapter 7.
That's funny, because I still don't know how it works.
When you fire into a unit, how do you determine which model is hit?
Given the way wounds are allocated, if you score a precision strike on a psyker IC attached to a non-psyker unit, the wound from the S5 part of the Condemnor can be LOS!'d, but the Psi Shock can't, right?
In that case, if the Psi Shock kills the Psyker, it's before wounds are allocated do you get to pass the S5 wound onto another model?
Yeah, the new wording offers zero clarification. You don't hit a psyker, you hit a unit. The only time this is absolutely clear is when an IC psyker is running around alone.
Or maybe this is just more weight to the perils-effects-every-model-in-the-unit argument. "Any psyker hit by a stake crossbow shot suffers the perils of the warp. . . " The unit is hit, so the unit suffers perils? Hell, I don't know.
Changing subjects, I have been toying around with the idea of running dominions in squads of 10. The squads of five have a nasty tendency to die the round after they hop out of their transport. The extra 5 ladies could allow the melta chicks to get another round of tank busting. With only one round of shooting I find they're not always making their points back, even if they do pop their target.
No, you don't hit the model, you hit the unit. 'Hits' don't make it to units until they are converted to wounds and then allocated.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Quo wrote: Changing subjects, I have been toying around with the idea of running dominions in squads of 10. The squads of five have a nasty tendency to die the round after they hop out of their transport. The extra 5 ladies could allow the melta chicks to get another round of tank busting. With only one round of shooting I find they're not always making their points back, even if they do pop their target.
It sounds like it would work, but 5 extra T3 models don't really give you another turn of survivability against most armies.
pretre wrote: It sounds like it would work, but 5 extra T3 models don't really give you another turn of survivability against most armies.
Certainly not if the whole army shoots at them. And dominions do tend to evoke that sort of knee-jerk reaction, especially after a scout move.
Yeah. The only success I have in that regard is with two fives and a ten or multiple tens. Then there is so much to shoot at that one or two might live.
Except a squad of ten can't ride in an Immolatar so you end up trading off a twin-linked MM as well. I think I'd rather roll a squad of 5 with the Immo.
PanzerLeader wrote: Except a squad of ten can't ride in an Immolatar so you end up trading off a twin-linked MM as well. I think I'd rather roll a squad of 5 with the Immo.
I'd wager a second round of shooting with 4 ignores cover meltas will be more valuable than what that immo will give you for the duration of the game. Especially considering the Immo is in the same boat as the dominions, sitting in the enemy's deployment zone with AV 11. Several armies can glance AV11 to death with basic infantry. And you're right in charge range of anything with grenades. I find my immos only survive until my enemy decides he doesn't want them there anymore.
PanzerLeader wrote: Except a squad of ten can't ride in an Immolatar so you end up trading off a twin-linked MM as well. I think I'd rather roll a squad of 5 with the Immo.
I'd wager a second round of shooting with 4 ignores cover meltas will be more valuable than what that immo will give you for the duration of the game. Especially considering the Immo is in the same boat as the dominions, sitting in the enemy's deployment zone with AV 11. Several armies can glance AV11 to death with basic infantry. And you're right in charge range of anything with grenades. I find my immos only survive until my enemy decides he doesn't want them there anymore.
The difference comes in target priorities for the enemy. An 10 man dominion squad is a single target with a rhino that can be safely ignored. 10 sisters die fairly easily to massed fires. A 5 man squad with an Immo is two targets that can't be massed against as easily nor can both be ignored.
PanzerLeader wrote: Except a squad of ten can't ride in an Immolatar so you end up trading off a twin-linked MM as well. I think I'd rather roll a squad of 5 with the Immo.
I'd wager a second round of shooting with 4 ignores cover meltas will be more valuable than what that immo will give you for the duration of the game. Especially considering the Immo is in the same boat as the dominions, sitting in the enemy's deployment zone with AV 11. Several armies can glance AV11 to death with basic infantry. And you're right in charge range of anything with grenades. I find my immos only survive until my enemy decides he doesn't want them there anymore.
The difference comes in target priorities for the enemy. An 10 man dominion squad is a single target with a rhino that can be safely ignored. 10 sisters die fairly easily to massed fires. A 5 man squad with an Immo is two targets that can't be massed against as easily nor can both be ignored.
Well yeah. I can't disagree with that. But I will say that a single dominion squad is about as reliable as a single exorcist. Deployment may screw your scout move, or you may outflank on the wrong table edge. You kinda need two or three squads to get the results you want. If I were going to run the 10 girl dominion squads I'd run 3 squads of them. 30 sisters, 12 meltas, and 3 combis in the enemy deployment zone on t1 means he'd spend a few rounds at least just trying to get out the front door. Meanwhile your exorcists are mopping up MCs and tanks (if any survived the dominions), and your sister squads are roasting troops.
Or it could all go horribly wrong and you end up throwing away 700 points in turn one. I'll have to try it.
So how if at all are people thinking of rocking the Inquisitors we will be getting? I'm seriously kind of excited to run some Red Hunters allies, assuming that the Inquisitors work as people are thinking, in as 'auxiliary' allies. I'm hoping we get the option for a LRC for the Inquisitor force as that always made more sense to me than the standard LR for rooting out heretics. What if we can put a Sisiers squad in one? On the RH Allies, I am thinking three Missile Drop Pods, Filled with two squads of Marines of some stripe with Plas plus an Ironclad with Melta/HF/2PFist, a Librarian, and an Assault Jump Squad. Maybe a LR if it needs to be from this detachment.
EDIT: I failed at counting. I've got 8 Meltas, just not 11. So list tweaking is a must. So flamers for the BSS squads? Or take a model and a Melta out of the Dominion Squads so I'm not putting all my eggs in one basket? Or eBay?
Of course Codex: Inquisition may change my plans further, but one thing at a time.
Flamers and heavy flamers are nice in the battle sister squads, if you've got heavy flamer models to spare. Yeah the =I= dex could make use all change out plans. Wonder if it'll be worth putting an inquisitor in the blob?
aushlo wrote: I'm seriously kind of excited to run some Red Hunters allies, assuming that the Inquisitors work as people are thinking, in as 'auxiliary' allies.
Me too. I imagine that there's some pretty brutal combos that could be pulled off, there. How about a priest with some assault termies?
ClockworkZion wrote: EDIT: I failed at counting. I've got 8 Meltas, just not 11. So list tweaking is a must. So flamers for the BSS squads? Or take a model and a Melta out of the Dominion Squads so I'm not putting all my eggs in one basket? Or eBay?
Of course Codex: Inquisition may change my plans further, but one thing at a time.
Flamer/HF for sister squads is nice.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Apparently that whole 'they were updated' thing is bollocks:
Games Workshop: Digital Editions Hi Charles,
They haven't, the ibooks edition of Codex:Adepta Sororitas revived a formating update to bring it in line with the new Apple Mavericks operating system for apple computers, but the rules are unchanged.
The eBook edition does not automatically update, but the date of the last update is always displayed on the product page, and you can re-download an up-to-date copy at any time from the 'my downloads' section of your account.
aushlo wrote: I'm seriously kind of excited to run some Red Hunters allies, assuming that the Inquisitors work as people are thinking, in as 'auxiliary' allies.
Me too. I imagine that there's some pretty brutal combos that could be pulled off, there. How about a priest with some assault termies?
That could be very scary for sure, as well as very cool. I was thinking myself of doing a committed deep striking shock assault. Turn one, drop pod with the ironclad and some serious line disruption or flank threat in addition to a line of sight problem for my opponent. The Ironclad, depending on the foe, will either suck up most of a round of fire and die spectacularly or be around to assault and kill whatever it must on my next turn, while the pod shreds infantry as well. Both are pretty tough to crack at times. Turn two, hit with pods two and three, rack opponent with missile pods and let loose with two scoring Marine squads with probably Plasma Guns or something, and possibly a Deep Striking Assault Squad with Plasma Pistols (hello, Locator Beacon!). My thought is to take full advantage of an alpha strike/disruption attack using whichever Mnemonic Redaction Protocols is necessary turn two or more likely three. Season with a Librarian for added oomph and access to an Auspex to lower pesky Jink and ADL saves. Meanwhile the Sisters and Inquisitor work their magic largely uninterrupted and form a nigh unbreakable defense back home and Dominions, Seraphim and whatnot seal the deal on the offense. The enemy ideally never gets a chance to leave their starting point before they are annihilated.
I've not played against Tau Interceptor guns or the ADL, but it seems to me that the fairly high AV of the Dread and Pod should usually keep them somewhat safe. Thoughts?
aushlo wrote: I'm seriously kind of excited to run some Red Hunters allies, assuming that the Inquisitors work as people are thinking, in as 'auxiliary' allies.
Me too. I imagine that there's some pretty brutal combos that could be pulled off, there. How about a priest with some assault termies?
That could be very scary for sure, as well as very cool. I was thinking myself of doing a committed deep striking shock assault. Turn one, drop pod with the ironclad and some serious line disruption or flank threat in addition to a line of sight problem for my opponent. The Ironclad, depending on the foe, will either suck up most of a round of fire and die spectacularly or be around to assault and kill whatever it must on my next turn, while the pod shreds infantry as well. Both are pretty tough to crack at times. Turn two, hit with pods two and three, rack opponent with missile pods and let loose with two scoring Marine squads with probably Plasma Guns or something, and possibly a Deep Striking Assault Squad with Plasma Pistols (hello, Locator Beacon!). My thought is to take full advantage of an alpha strike/disruption attack using whichever Mnemonic Redaction Protocols is necessary turn two or more likely three. Season with a Librarian for added oomph and access to an Auspex to lower pesky Jink and ADL saves. Meanwhile the Sisters and Inquisitor work their magic largely uninterrupted and form a nigh unbreakable defense back home and Dominions, Seraphim and whatnot seal the deal on the offense. The enemy ideally never gets a chance to leave their starting point before they are annihilated.
I've not played against Tau Interceptor guns or the ADL, but it seems to me that the fairly high AV of the Dread and Pod should usually keep them somewhat safe. Thoughts?
Tau Interceptor guns are something to watch out for. I've lost a stormraven full of centurions to a riptide with EWO. The dude got very lucky, rolling a six to hit then two sixes to pen, but still.
McNinja wrote: Tau Interceptor guns are something to watch out for. I've lost a stormraven full of centurions to a riptide with EWO. The dude got very lucky, rolling a six to hit then two sixes to pen, but still.
A few questions:
1) Why were your centurions in a SR?
2) Why did they die? They just take a S10 hit, right? Cents have two wounds?
McNinja wrote: Tau Interceptor guns are something to watch out for. I've lost a stormraven full of centurions to a riptide with EWO. The dude got very lucky, rolling a six to hit then two sixes to pen, but still.
A few questions:
1) Why were your centurions in a SR?
2) Why did they die? They just take a S10 hit, right? Cents have two wounds?
1) Because SR's are cool and not only did i want them upfield fast, I also wanted the firepower the SR brings.
2) A single S10 hit with no armor saves allowed. They are T5 with a 2+. Sadly, they were ID'd.
Honestly, I didn't expect my opponent to roll four sixes in a row. Then, somewhat hilariously, I then rolled 12" for the scatter of the wreckage. There were a lot of sixes that turn. Except when I tried to jink.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Apparently that whole 'they were updated' thing is bollocks:
Games Workshop: Digital Editions Hi Charles,
They haven't, the ibooks edition of Codex:Adepta Sororitas revived a formating update to bring it in line with the new Apple Mavericks operating system for apple computers, but the rules are unchanged.
The eBook edition does not automatically update, but the date of the last update is always displayed on the product page, and you can re-download an up-to-date copy at any time from the 'my downloads' section of your account.
- Eddie
Then GW screwed up. I updated my ibooks edition on my ipad today and it definitely has the stake crossbow verbage everywhere psi-shock is mentioned. I just double checked. If different versions of their digital codexes end up getting updated differently this is going to cause some headaches for people.
Designer’s Note: Allies
To determine which armies your Adepta Sororitas detachments can ally with, replace the words ‘Sisters of Battle’ with ‘Adepta Sororitas’ on the Allies Matrix on page 113 of the Warhammer 40,000 rulebook.
Psi-shock: Any psyker hit by a stake crossbow shot suffers the Perils of the Warp in addition to any other effect
Random question, apologies if it's in the wrong place: Am I reading it right that the Hospitaller and Dialogus swap their boltguns but keep their bolt pistols?
Mr Morden wrote: Just got the updated ebook - it has:
Psi-shock: Any psyker hit by a stake crossbow shot suffers the Perils of the Warp in addition to any other effect
Beat me to it- I just downloaded it again this afternoon to see if an update was applied.
Sadly, it was.
At least its still on a hit and not a wound. Im really on the fence on how I feel about the usefulness of it now.
OutlawBandit wrote: At least its still on a hit and not a wound. Im really on the fence on how I feel about the usefulness of it now.
Considering hits aren't assigned to models in a unit, it is useless unless used against a single model psyker or a BoP unit.
So that's a serious freaking nerf yes?
Yes it is useless unless you are firing your 1 use LolStake-Crossbow/Condemnor Boltgun at a unit that has every single model being a psyker, so awesome against the Sister natural enemy the Grey Knight but yeah pretty much useless vs. everything else.
marcus.iscariat wrote: Yes it is useless unless you are firing your 1 use LolStake-Crossbow/Condemnor Boltgun at a unit that has every single model being a psyker, so awesome against the Sister natural enemy the Grey Knight but yeah pretty much useless vs. everything else.
Nope, even worse. It has to be fired at a psyker unit or psyker with a 4+ save and no invul.
marcus.iscariat wrote: Yes it is useless unless you are firing your 1 use LolStake-Crossbow/Condemnor Boltgun at a unit that has every single model being a psyker, so awesome against the Sister natural enemy the Grey Knight but yeah pretty much useless vs. everything else.
Nope, even worse. It has to be fired at a psyker unit or psyker with a 4+ save and no invul.
I thought firing at the Grey Knights was your best shot as they are all psykers but still a waste since you need to get through a 3+ or 2+ save before even trying to wound a T4 model with a Str5 weapon before the Condemnor effect even works.
So I'm working on my SOB finally. After my recent project of painting practically all my SW, I'm going to do the same with my SOB. This gives me lots of options for lists, but here's the front runners right now:
Celest-Blob with Aegis
Spoiler:
Uriah Jacobus 5 Priests with Litanies, 3 Power Mauls, 2 Bolt Pistols Celestine (Warlord) BSS (5) with Flamer/HF in TL-MM Immo BSS (5) with Flamer/HF in TL-MM Immo BSS (20) with HF/Flamer, Simulacrum
Dominions (6) with 2 Melta/2 Flamer, Simulacrum in Rhino with Laud Hailer Dominions (5) with 4 Melta in TL-MM Immo
Exorcist Exorcist Exorcist
Aegis with Icarus
Bastion Blob
Spoiler:
Uriah Jacobus 5 Priests (Litanies/Power Maul, Power Maul, Power Maul)
BSS (5) with MM/Flamer BSS (5) with Flamer/HF in TL-MM Immo BSS (20) with HF/Flamer, Simulacrum
Dominions (6) with 2 Melta/2 Flamer, Simulacrum in Rhino with Laud Hailer Dominions (5) with 4 Melta in TL-MM Immo Dominions (5) with 4 Melta in TL-MM Immo
Exorcist Exorcist Retributors (6) with VSS, Simulacrum, 4 Heavy Bolters
Bastion with Icarus
Blob with Aegis - No Celestine
Spoiler:
Uriah Jacobus 5 Priests (Litanies/Power Maul, Power Maul/BP, Power Maul, Bolt Pistol, Stock)
BSS (5) with Flamer/HF in TL-MM Immo BSS (5) with Flamer/HF in TL-MM Immo BSS (5) with Flamer/HF in TL-MM Immo BSS (20) with HF/Flamer, Simulacrum Dominions (6) with 2 Melta/2 Flamer, Simulacrum in Rhino with Laud Hailer Dominions (5) with 4 Melta in TL-MM Immo
Exorcist Exorcist Exorcist
Aegis Defense Line with Icarus Lascannon
Firestorm Redoubt
Spoiler:
Uriah Jacobus 5 Priests (Litanies, 3 Mauls, 4 BP)
BSS (10) with MM/Flamer BSS (5) with Flamer/HF in TL-MM Immo BSS (20) with HF/Flamer, Simulacrum
Dominions (5) with 4 Melta in TL-MM Immo (Laud Hailer) Dominions (7) with 2 Melta, 2 Flamers, Simulacrum in Rhino with Laud Hailer and Dozer Blade
Exorcist Exorcist Exorcist
Firestorm Redoubt
Still tinkering a lot and trying to find something I like.
marcus.iscariat wrote: Yes it is useless unless you are firing your 1 use LolStake-Crossbow/Condemnor Boltgun at a unit that has every single model being a psyker, so awesome against the Sister natural enemy the Grey Knight but yeah pretty much useless vs. everything else.
Nope, even worse. It has to be fired at a psyker unit or psyker with a 4+ save and no invul.
I thought firing at the Grey Knights was your best shot as they are all psykers but still a waste since you need to get through a 3+ or 2+ save before even trying to wound a T4 model with a Str5 weapon before the Condemnor effect even works.
Maybe - but you don't need to wound only to hit to get the perils effect..............then your str 5 hit might also wound
pretre wrote: The FAQ for GK says unsaved wound and it uses the same wording as the new AS wording. That's what I meant.
Well then for now as it stands PotW kicks in on the hit, until a possible FAQ later to make it on the unsaved wound.
Still, I agree that unless firing at a full unit of psykers or a single psyker by itself its kinda lame.
You would be precision shooting with your superior (or other character) so you could possibly single out the psyker who then of course would attempt the LOS.
Now that I think about it, if you did hit the psyker in that situation with a precision shot, would they still suffer the PotW because LOS is for wounds (saved or unsaved) not hits?
The new AS wording still says "hit" and not "wound" AFAIK.
Also, remember you can still get precision fire with it, so even against a hidden psyker, it got uses. (and LoS wont help, as LoS happens AFTER it hits. it only modifies who takes the wound, not the hit.)
Still confused how it works on mixed units though. even with just 2 psykers forming a squad, if the are not brotherhood, how can you tell who got "hit"?
With all this priest love opening up EBCs is taking a small group of 2 crusaders and 4 DCAs for a backfield counter charge (drop pod/deep-strike/etc) unit useful? Id imagine that with a list of MSUMM Immo spam +3 Exorcists that the target priority for them would be low.
OutlawBandit wrote: With all this priest love opening up EBCs is taking a small group of 2 crusaders and 4 DCAs for a backfield counter charge (drop pod/deep-strike/etc) unit useful? Id imagine that with a list of MSUMM Immo spam +3 Exorcists that the target priority for them would be low.
I actually ran a list with Arco Spam and priests. 4x 8 Arcos and 2 Crusaders. use the crusaders to tank shooting wounds. It was pretty hilarious and fun.
OutlawBandit wrote: With all this priest love opening up EBCs is taking a small group of 2 crusaders and 4 DCAs for a backfield counter charge (drop pod/deep-strike/etc) unit useful? Id imagine that with a list of MSUMM Immo spam +3 Exorcists that the target priority for them would be low.
I actually ran a list with Arco Spam and priests. 4x 8 Arcos and 2 Crusaders. use the crusaders to tank shooting wounds. It was pretty hilarious and fun.
Did you use your Arco/Crusader units in an offensive role or backfield protector?
OutlawBandit wrote: With all this priest love opening up EBCs is taking a small group of 2 crusaders and 4 DCAs for a backfield counter charge (drop pod/deep-strike/etc) unit useful? Id imagine that with a list of MSUMM Immo spam +3 Exorcists that the target priority for them would be low.
I actually ran a list with Arco Spam and priests. 4x 8 Arcos and 2 Crusaders. use the crusaders to tank shooting wounds. It was pretty hilarious and fun.
Did you use your Arco/Crusader units in an offensive role or backfield protector?
Offensive. They are a bit delicate to sit back. So all 4 charged the enemy. Of the 40 dudes, probably 10-15 made it to combat. They performed spectacularly.
5 or 6 with Priest vs 4 Man Noise Marine Squad with Champion: Poof goes NM.
4 or 5 and 1 vs 4 Man Havoc Squad: Poof goes Havocs
1 vs 30 Man Cultist with Lucius: Ate the overwatch so my blob could charge unmolested. He died horribly.
The prevalence of Ignores Cover in my opponent's army really f'd them since they have no save. I did have one crusader tank 3 blastmaster shots before going down to Sonic Blasters though. lol
Also, I really wish that I hadn't put priests in their squads. They were great as a distraction though.
Im trying to put together a solid blob for my 1999 list.
Im thinking the barebones would be
Uriah
Priest
Litanies of Faith
Priest
20 sisters
Simulcrum
2 x flamers
That would give me all three hymms even though I know having 3 smash-happy priests with mauls are better than one without. Problem im having is actual models on hand. I have
Uriah
Kyrinov (RIP good buddy)
Missionary with Plasma Gun
Missionary with Chainsword
The above are what I have currently that would model as a priest. Im reluctant to use my plasma toting priest because im big on WYSIWYG and I dont want to pay for a plasma gun I wouldnt shoot (for fear of GH). I considered using the Sister Dialogus model as a priest since she looks priesty but im a bit iffy on it since its already a designated model elsewhere in the codex.
I looked on GW and saw that the regular preacher models are backordered for 2-3 weeks so thats an option for the future but not for an upcoming tourney that is scheduled in that window. I could proxy, sure, but im always reluctant to do so in a tournament setting.
Yes, I would. Totally not overkill, since it allows them to deal with vehicles and instant kill SM characters, hurt MCs, etc.
Also, it only brings them to S8 AP2 S3 x2 for Smash +2 for Mace
Always multiply before adding. So you can do: 3 Attacks S5 AP4, 3 Attacks S5 AP2, 2 Attacks S8 AP2. (Not counting the charge bonus)
Nothing exceeds like excess.
As an aside, right now I have the following priest models that I am thinking of using: Uriah Kyrinov (Power Maul priest) Priest with Chainsword and Holy Symbol (Normal Priest) Priest with Sword and book (Normal Priest) Priest with Book on Stick and Plasma Gun (Gun was cut off by previous owner, so i replaced with Flagellant Flail for Power Maul / Litanies Priest) Mordheim Priest with Hammer (Removed whatever was in his off hand and gave him pistol. Power Maul Priest)
If you use Uriah in your lists would you think its necessary to have 5 others or Uriah +4?
If I had to cut points, I'd cut a priest, but having all those priests makes for some great hilarity. It bumps the squad up to 26 (27 if you bring Celestine) and allows it to take on anything in the game in hand to hand.
Do you think a Dominion VSS is better than laud hailers on a Dominion Squads Immolator?
If I had three Dominion squads who were scouting, so long as I kept them in range of the laud hailer I think that the Laud hailer option would be more point efficient.
Outflanking is different because there is no guarantee that they will be within range. The hailer Immo could come in on one side with the other two non-hailers on the other for instance.
OutlawBandit wrote: Do you think a Dominion VSS is better than laud hailers on a Dominion Squads Immolator?
If I had three Dominion squads who were scouting, so long as I kept them in range of the laud hailer I think that the Laud hailer option would be more point efficient.
Outflanking is different because there is no guarantee that they will be within range. The hailer Immo could come in on one side with the other two non-hailers on the other for instance.
Okay, so here's my thought on Sim vs VSS vs Laud:
Sim: Will you survive to make a second shot? Take this on Rhino doms, don't take this on 5 girl Immo Melta squads.
VSS: Do you need to get your power off and don't trust Laud Hailers? Take this. Also good if you need Leadership for a Priest or otherwise. Not a big fan of this one.
Laud Hailer: Do you really need to get your faith off and think your vehicle will live? Take this. I will take it on 1 out of 2 Dominions.
Personal setup (if I take three):
2x 5 girl squads with 4 Melta, TL-MM Immos (Dozer if I have the points)
1x 6-10 Girl squad with 2 Melta, 2 Flamer, Simulacrum in Rhino with Laud Hailer.
I can't agree more with always taking a power maul on every Priest. War Hymns go very far into elevating AS to a competitive army.
When you're whole army is built around short-ranged shooting, you're going to be in assault inevitably. Being able to actually fight out of that assault is pivotal.
Have you ever thought, just for lols, to take ten priests in the blob on a 2k+ game? Uriah, Celestine/Canoness (for that second HQ), 20 sisters and 10 power maul Priests in one unit xD
Gar'Ang wrote: Have you ever thought, just for lols, to take ten priests in the blob on a 2k+ game? Uriah, Celestine/Canoness (for that second HQ), 20 sisters and 10 power maul Priests in one unit xD
Meh, I don't play very much double FOC. Sure, you could do that but why? At that point, it is just a points sink.
Gar'Ang wrote: Have you ever thought, just for lols, to take ten priests in the blob on a 2k+ game? Uriah, Celestine/Canoness (for that second HQ), 20 sisters and 10 power maul Priests in one unit xD
Wouldn't it be more effective (and just as ridiculous) to have 2-3 blobs?
Gar'Ang wrote: Have you ever thought, just for lols, to take ten priests in the blob on a 2k+ game? Uriah, Celestine/Canoness (for that second HQ), 20 sisters and 10 power maul Priests in one unit xD
Wouldn't it be more effective (and just as ridiculous) to have 2-3 blobs?
Yeah, if only Uriah wasn't unique. I guess you could have 5 priests, Uriah, 20 sisters and 5 priests, Celestine, 20 sisters.
Not quite as good as one blob, but still cool. Celestine helps make up for the lack of litanies in the second blob.
I go gear light most of the time, outside of special weapons. But the Sisters Codex sort of forces the issue doesn't it. One of the rare codex's where they didn't just say "Well, people will ALWAYS take GUY X this way so just POINT him that way". Nope. they made everything an option and said "take yer pick of different types of Priests, or whatever".
For example, Castellan Crowe, for all the grief he gets, is a self contained brother Captain, exactly like you'd pretty much want to build him if you wanted one at all. He's an unlock character and is optionless.
Done the SOB way, he'd have his sword as an option, even though you'd nearly always take it. He'd have a Psyker power you could take called "Heroic Sacrifice". But ya' wouldn't have to.
The sisters of Battle really disassembled things a bit. Even the Veteran Sister Superiors were disassembled, so to speak, to make them able to challenge without the added expense if you didn't want cool gear.
Except Crowe is a special character... And he works just like our special characters which aren't customizable. Bad analogy, although I get your point.
I've played a couple of low points games now and I have to say the standout performer has been the canoness with inferno pistol and the cloak of St Aspira.
I've just acquired a couple of priests so I'll give those a go as soon as I can but really I like the idea of the all-female army so I don't know if I'll want to play them much.
Have to say I'm thoroughly enjoying this thread. Learning lots.
My point is they could have just made him a Brother Captain with those options. But they didn't and Brother Captains aren't really... special. Lol. A Canoness is to Celestine what a Brother Captain is to Brother Stern, kind of. I mean yeah he's a character but... Two wounds... I mean come on. Doesn't truly FEEL like a character even though he is.
anyways i just find it interesting how disassembled they made things. is that good or bad? I think it adds a little bit of a tax on the items you'd want to take because of the "one per customer" thing but it's not an entirely unreasonable tax so...
I need someone to point me in the right direction:
1. Years ago when Heavy Flamer Immolators were the rage, I fitted all my turrets with the Heavy Flamers. Now I need to make the conversion to Multimeltas. Since I never envisioned switching, I glued the Flamers on... now, I still have the MMs on sprues, but need advice on how best to remove the HFs and switch to MMs. Any suggestions?
2. Are there any online discount retailers that still sell Sisters models? I need to get 5 flamer sisters, and eBay is looking for almost as much as GW sells new. And all the barter / swap blogs that I'm familiar with are *looking* for Sisters models, all of the sudden we're more in demand.
davidgr33n wrote: I need someone to point me in the right direction:
1. Years ago when Heavy Flamer Immolators were the rage, I fitted all my turrets with the Heavy Flamers. Now I need to make the conversion to Multimeltas. Since I never envisioned switching, I glued the Flamers on... now, I still have the MMs on sprues, but need advice on how best to remove the HFs and switch to MMs. Any suggestions?
2. Are there any online discount retailers that still sell Sisters models? I need to get 5 flamer sisters, and eBay is looking for almost as much as GW sells new. And all the barter / swap blogs that I'm familiar with are *looking* for Sisters models, all of the sudden we're more in demand.
Any help here would be appreciated....
1) You should be able to just twist them off. If that doesn't work, a little razor saw or exacto work should be able to take the HF off at the join with the turret and then swap them out.
2) Nope. Swap shop here or bartertown works. Sisters are definitely in demand.
1) You should be able to just twist them off. If that doesn't work, a little razor saw or exacto work should be able to take the HF off at the join with the turret and then swap them out.
2) Nope. Swap shop here or bartertown works. Sisters are definitely in demand.
1. Ok, thanks for the advice, I will try that.
2. I thought not. I looked at Bartertown and here as well, but very limited options. If you ever decide to sell off your vast collection of Sisters you know where to find me, LOL
2) Nope. Swap shop here or bartertown works. Sisters are definitely in demand.
2. I thought not. I looked at Bartertown and here as well, but very limited options. If you ever decide to sell off your vast collection of Sisters you know where to find me, LOL
Razor saw properly used will definitely cause the least amount of damage as you remove the flamers. You'll also have a clean surface on both the turret mount and the flamer which you can then magnetize. Worth doing as you never know when the heavy bolter or flamer may come back into favor.
davidgr33n wrote: I need someone to point me in the right direction:
1. Years ago when Heavy Flamer Immolators were the rage, I fitted all my turrets with the Heavy Flamers. Now I need to make the conversion to Multimeltas. Since I never envisioned switching, I glued the Flamers on... now, I still have the MMs on sprues, but need advice on how best to remove the HFs and switch to MMs. Any suggestions?
2. Are there any online discount retailers that still sell Sisters models? I need to get 5 flamer sisters, and eBay is looking for almost as much as GW sells new. And all the barter / swap blogs that I'm familiar with are *looking* for Sisters models, all of the sudden we're more in demand.
Any help here would be appreciated....
Depending on how you mounted the turret, water breaks down super-glue by making it brittle and easy to pop lose. Simply Green (for those in the States) is an excellent de-bonder, although it will remove paint, too.
Going to have to make a double force org list for 2k points with 10 priests, Uriah, Celestine, sister blobs, 6 exorcists and Immolator Dominions with melta spam.
I haven't read all the pages for this post, but I was curious how people fit in their troops at 1850? there are just so many things outside the troops section to get, that I end up getting plain squads of sisters. I essentially start with the 3 exorcists, then go to dominions and their accompanying immolators, go to Hq for the command squad with condemnor boltguns and an accompanying immolator, and THEN i get to troops, which tends to leave me very little points left over for the amount of troop I probably actually need. It also leaves me with troops with them contributing very little to the army. So how do you balance that in a competitive scene? also This has probably been answered but does the simulacrum imperialis replace a weapon? So if I take that upgrade for a dominion squad, does that mean I can only take 3 special weapons?
davidgr33n wrote: I need someone to point me in the right direction:
1. Years ago when Heavy Flamer Immolators were the rage, I fitted all my turrets with the Heavy Flamers. Now I need to make the conversion to Multimeltas. Since I never envisioned switching, I glued the Flamers on... now, I still have the MMs on sprues, but need advice on how best to remove the HFs and switch to MMs. Any suggestions?
2. Are there any online discount retailers that still sell Sisters models? I need to get 5 flamer sisters, and eBay is looking for almost as much as GW sells new. And all the barter / swap blogs that I'm familiar with are *looking* for Sisters models, all of the sudden we're more in demand.
Any help here would be appreciated....
Depending on how you mounted the turret, water breaks down super-glue by making it brittle and easy to pop lose. Simply Green (for those in the States) is an excellent de-bonder, although it will remove paint, too.
SJ
Freezing also works on super glue, it makes it brittle and more prone to breaking cleanly.
You can do a 5 girl squad with a Simulacrum, just replace a bolter model. The simulacrum still retains their bolter and can fire. This is reflected in the Simulacrum model, who has her bolter slung.
Does anyone know if the 5 man sister/immolator spam actually works in a competitive setting? in theory hammer, It's tough to think it works because immolators are easy to blo up, and units of 5 sisters won't live long. I' having trouble configuring a good troop selection.
davidgr33n wrote: I need someone to point me in the right direction:
1. Years ago when Heavy Flamer Immolators were the rage, I fitted all my turrets with the Heavy Flamers. Now I need to make the conversion to Multimeltas. Since I never envisioned switching, I glued the Flamers on... now, I still have the MMs on sprues, but need advice on how best to remove the HFs and switch to MMs. Any suggestions?
2. Are there any online discount retailers that still sell Sisters models? I need to get 5 flamer sisters, and eBay is looking for almost as much as GW sells new. And all the barter / swap blogs that I'm familiar with are *looking* for Sisters models, all of the sudden we're more in demand.
Any help here would be appreciated....
Depending on how you mounted the turret, water breaks down super-glue by making it brittle and easy to pop lose. Simply Green (for those in the States) is an excellent de-bonder, although it will remove paint, too.
SJ
Freezing also works on super glue, it makes it brittle and more prone to breaking cleanly.
toocool61 wrote: Does anyone know if the 5 man sister/immolator spam actually works in a competitive setting? in theory hammer, It's tough to think it works because immolators are easy to blo up, and units of 5 sisters won't live long. I' having trouble configuring a good troop selection.
It's hard to tell since the codex has been out for less than a month so far.
dadakkaest wrote: Who actually has 11 or so immolators to play test the spammolator list? I've been collecting sisters off and on for 10 years and I only have 5...
Though I could field 14 Immos, in my 2000 point list I have 9 Immolators and 3 Exorcists. In that list I am considering fielding two Blood Angels Assault Squads as Troops with Fast FlamerBacks. Dont know if that is a viable build but just looking at it....
The 11 Immie Spam list was pretty big in early 5th, before the WD mini-Dex killed Sisters as an army. Use to field 8 Immies, 2 Rhinos, and 3 Exos in a standard FoC, now we can field 14 Immies and 3 Exos in a standard FoC. Easy Bake is a time honored tradition.
I have played a few games so far with sisters. Won them all
One was against Salamanders.
2 small sister squads in Immolators driving up and screening the 20 sister blob. Guy I was playing against was afraid of the twin linked multi meltas and the content so he focused everything he could on those leaving my blob unmolested. That was 4 targets for him altogether (2 immos and 2 squads) which can still be fairly resilient... so I managed to get my blob into combat with all his drop pod marines (who had dropped table center for the relic) and wiped him out. Rest of his army, back field, was dealt with through exorcists and dominions.
Those two immo squads cost about 300 points combined so a very small sacrifice to make to allow important units to move up.
Once people realize how nasty sisters can now be in assault, I suspect a lot more firepower will go into the blob squad... but if that happens, you have the rest of your army able to roam free and wreck havoc.
toocool61 wrote: Does anyone know if the 5 man sister/immolator spam actually works in a competitive setting? in theory hammer, It's tough to think it works because immolators are easy to blo up, and units of 5 sisters won't live long. I' having trouble configuring a good troop selection.
I'm much more forward about the squads being fragile than about their rides -- although target saturation does help with both problems (see posts re 11 immo lists). Especially if the enemy puts his points in a few expensive units and ends up overkilling a fraction of your force per turn because he can only shoot so many of your units at a time.
An Immolator is no easier to pop than a Rhino -- and if you haven't disembarked the squad yet, you lose 1.7 times as many girls when the Rhino dies. It's just that a vehicle with a TL heavy flamer or multi-melta is going to attract more fire than one with a storm bolter.
What does worry me is the brittleness of a 6-person squad that breaks when it takes two KIA in one phase, which a relatively modest amount of firepower can inflict. You can't put Priests in every squad unless you have a very small force (you max out at 5, remember) -- and it's probably not wise to do so even if you could -- and you can't keep everyone within Jacobus's 12" Fearless bubble.
So I'm still strongly tempted to run at least some 10-strong Battle Sister Squads in Rhinos, not just a mix of 6-strong squads in Immolators and one big blob.
edited because I didn't properly round up 1.666666 (ad infinitum)
MrFlutterPie wrote: Today I upgraded my Exo's with storm bolters. 5pts for a 50/50 chance to save my missile launcher on a weapon destroyed result? Yes please!
I dunno, I rarely lose the weapon. I always get blown up or die from hulk points. I'd rather give them dozers than storm bolters.
Looks like I'll be converting some figures for priestesses.
And I'll need another immolator and another exorcist. Got a lot of work to do.
Ha! I've been using a cannoness all this time...only now she's actually decent. I love that the cloak is back. It warms my black heart. See? Pointless stubbornness pays off. Also, I'll need a ton more sisters seeing as how I won't be using my repentia or P Engines anymore. They're just laughably useless now.
Seraphim Superiors use to be able to take Power Fists (which I modeled with an Eldar power fist because it was the right scale for the model), a Power Sword (which I model with an Eldar power sword because it fit the scale of the model). I ran them in units of 8, because that was the best sweet spot for rolling above and below their unit size when activating an Act of Faith. My Battle Sister squads were 10-models strong, with most of the Superiors converted to Stormbolters (Marines had this nice "pistol" sized stormbolter bit that just looks awesome being fired one-handed by a Sister); at 10 models, these gals were rolling under squad size for rending bolters, and would roll over size after a few casualties for invulnerable armor.
Immies were packed with 4 Heavy Flamer Sisters and a combi-flamer Superior for 1 twin-linked heavy flamer (Immie), 4 heavy flamer, and 1 regular flamer templates. This was when I ran 2 Mk1 Sister Rhinos with 2 Stormbolters each, and 2 Mk1 Immolators with the old metal flamer turrets. It wasn't until 3rd Ed came out that I replaced my Mk1's with the newer Sister Rhino models, but I sure did "easy bake" in 2nd from my Mk1's.
toocool61 wrote: I haven't read all the pages for this post, but I was curious how people fit in their troops at 1850? there are just so many things outside the troops section to get, that I end up getting plain squads of sisters. I essentially start with the 3 exorcists, then go to dominions and their accompanying immolators, go to Hq for the command squad with condemnor boltguns and an accompanying immolator, and THEN i get to troops, which tends to leave me very little points left over for the amount of troop I probably actually need. It also leaves me with troops with them contributing very little to the army. So how do you balance that in a competitive scene? also This has probably been answered but does the simulacrum imperialis replace a weapon? So if I take that upgrade for a dominion squad, does that mean I can only take 3 special weapons?
I'm slightly biased against the "non-AS" parts of the army so it makes it easier for me to fit in troops. I also don;t use any vechiles outside of exorcists, which comes with its own disadvantages, im slower and my army is more vulnerable but it does afford me the chance to flood the table with more bodies and weapons. I also don't have any dedicated CC elements in my army. Since Celestine was changed I swapped to much cheaper canoness.
My army is pretty boring and bare bones compared to most AS armies here
1 canoness with rosarius, st aspira cloack and melta bombs
x3 10 dominion squads w/ 4 meltas
x6 10 sister squads with /x2 meltas
x3 exorcists
1830
And then for 2k I just pop in another sister squad.....er i mean "celestians" and im done
I wouldn't call it good but its what I like, but I tend to take max troop choices in all of my armies if I am able to.
There are the occasionally missions that give you additional scoring options but most of the time you gotta rely on your troops and if up against armies that barely fulfill the 2 troop requirement like a SM army with 2 x5 tact squads, if you get rid of their paltry troops they can only ever contest you, and on top of that they have to worry about your 6 scoring units.
But this is all in a vaccum it all comes down to all the elements in a game, lists, play styles, decisions at the moment dice rolls terrain etc
Edit:
Get some games in with varying lists and see what number of troops works best for you is the best advice we can really offer
jeffersonian000 wrote: When the Witch Hunters codex replaced the Sisters of Battle codex...snip... It wasn't until 3rd Ed came out that I replaced my Mk1's with the newer Sister Rhino models, but I sure did "easy bake" in 2nd from my Mk1's.
That was a wall of text.
Two things: C:WH replaced Codex: Chapter Approved, i.e. our last WD dex, not Codex: Sisters of Battle, which was in 2nd edition and had the black book and the WD dex between it and C:WH. Second, sure, you might have done that, but it became famous/well-known in 3rd edition with the Rending acts which were not present in the 2nd edition book and didn't show up until the WD dex.
toocool61 wrote: I haven't read all the pages for this post, but I was curious how people fit in their troops at 1850? there are just so many things outside the troops section to get, that I end up getting plain squads of sisters. I essentially start with the 3 exorcists, then go to dominions and their accompanying immolators, go to Hq for the command squad with condemnor boltguns and an accompanying immolator, and THEN i get to troops, which tends to leave me very little points left over for the amount of troop I probably actually need. It also leaves me with troops with them contributing very little to the army. So how do you balance that in a competitive scene? also This has probably been answered but does the simulacrum imperialis replace a weapon? So if I take that upgrade for a dominion squad, does that mean I can only take 3 special weapons?
I'm slightly biased against the "non-AS" parts of the army so it makes it easier for me to fit in troops. I also don;t use any vechiles outside of exorcists, which comes with its own disadvantages, im slower and my army is more vulnerable but it does afford me the chance to flood the table with more bodies and weapons. I also don't have any dedicated CC elements in my army. Since Celestine was changed I swapped to much cheaper canoness.
My army is pretty boring and bare bones compared to most AS armies here
1 canoness with rosarius, st aspira cloack and melta bombs
x3 10 dominion squads w/ 4 meltas
x6 10 sister squads with /x2 meltas
x3 exorcists
1830
And then for 2k I just pop in another sister squad.....er i mean "celestians" and im done
I wouldn't call it good but its what I like, but I tend to take max troop choices in all of my armies if I am able to.
There are the occasionally missions that give you additional scoring options but most of the time you gotta rely on your troops and if up against armies that barely fulfill the 2 troop requirement like a SM army with 2 x5 tact squads, if you get rid of their paltry troops they can only ever contest you, and on top of that they have to worry about your 6 scoring units.
But this is all in a vaccum it all comes down to all the elements in a game, lists, play styles, decisions at the moment dice rolls terrain etc
Edit:
Get some games in with varying lists and see what number of troops works best for you is the best advice we can really offer
That's actually pretty similar to how I'll be running mine from now on, only with the edition of Celestine and a body guard of Seraphim.
My first real game of sisters since the new codex had to quickly throw together a list with what I had as I wasn't ready for a 1750 game.
pretty much the following.
Spoiler:
Celestine
Priest w/ book of St lucius
BSS - 9 sisters, MM, Flamer, Repressor
BSS - 9 sisters, MM, Flamer, Repressor
BSS - 9 sisters, MM, Flamer, Repressor
Dominions - 6 Sisters, 4 x melta, Simulacrum, Superio w/ Combi-melta, Immolator w/TL-MM & Laud Hailer
Dominions - 6 Sisters, 4 x melta, Simulacrum, Superio w/ Combi-melta, Immolator w/TL-MM & Laud Hailer
Seraphim - 10 sisters, 2 x Hand flamers
Exorcist
Exorcist
Avenger Strike Fighter
I was up against Chaos Space Marines, won't bore you with the details but things I noticed while playing. It was a very close match but ultimately I lost due to kill points. My opponent had 4 x thousand sons left to my 2 exorcists, avenger, 2 repressors, and two troop squads left. Any other mission type and I likely would have won.
Adamantium will - Army wide 5+ deny the witch certainly came in handy and I can only see it becoming more usefull against armies that rely more on offensive psykers.
Avenger Strike Fighter - I need more practice with flyers but this thing accomplished what I needed it to. Came in the same turn as the Hell Drake, blew it out of the sky and managed to wreck a havoc squad.
Repressors - At first I was a little miffed at the changes but mass AV13 certainly has it's uses. Through superior positioning my opponent struggled to put a dent in anything but my immolators.
Priests - At first I wasn't sold on the idea of Priest + sister blob but after seeing even a small squad last a couple rounds against a chaos lord I'm seriously considering taking one blob squad + priest/s for objective holding.
Simulacrum on dominion squads - Having second thoughts about this, by the time I would have gotten to use a second power the squad was dead but I think it may have just been some bad luck on my part. The first use of the power was shooting at a squad of invisible warp talons in a ruin, only to miss all 5 melta shots....
As you've indicated yourself however I would also take out the simulacrums on the Dominions.
Once they get out of their transports, your opponent won't them live long enough to shoot a second round. I would also personally drop the combi-meltas. Statistically 4 meltas will kill blow up anything you point them at assuming you make it in double dice range.
I'd drop 3 seraphims as well. I find them hard to move around and get decent hiding spots when they get too large of a squad.
with those 85 points I'd buy 2 more priests. Put one in each sister squad so all your sisters are now Fearless... making the Book of St Lucius redundant.
With the rest of the points I would buy combi flamers or meltas on the sister squads.
I am also no longer sold on the MultiMeltas on standard sister squads. Only reason it was nice in the white dwarf codex was because heavy flamer was 20 points. Now that it's back to 10, it feels like an auto include on them. Since you're driving around in repressors, you're going to be in your opponent's face rather quickly and 2-3 shots of snap fire multimelta will not outdo a preferred enemy heavy flamer when you get around to using it.
evildrcheese wrote: VSS or Loud Hailer on a transport. Which is a better use of 10pts?
LH could potentially help multiple units in a game until the transports go pop. VSS makes it less likely you'll need the reroll in the first place.
I like Laud Hailer so far on disposable squads like small Doms. VSS would be better on big squads that you want alive since they can use it for Ld as well.
For the same price it increases the chance of success much more than just +1 ld, and can affect multiple units. The downside being ofcourse it is stuck on a weak transport and doesn't impact regular leadership tests. To counter that though we now have priests to deal with any morale test we normally would need to take. I feel the Laud Hailer is the much better option of the two.
What are the thoughts for the heavy choices? Is 3 exorcists the way to go for competitive play? or is 2 and if the TO allows,the Avenger strike fighter? or 1 exorcist and 2 Avenger strike fighters?
I run 2 exorcists at 1500. I would run a 3rd at a higher point level. The avenger doesn't really appeal to me, as I don't really understand what role it'll fill. Exorcists excel at taking out heavy infantry MEQ and TEQ and light transports (only approx 33% chance of penning av12 anything less than that is gravy), we can bring loads of melta, some of which ignores cover to handle the heavy stuff and lots of flamer weapons for light infantry such as GEQ.
Believe it or not I'm yet to fight a FMC. No one in my meta uses them and I've always found Exorcists to be adequate at taking down fliers as they're generally quite fragile, apart from the Storm Raven. Sure they don't excel in the role but how many do you see in a typical list?
evildrcheese wrote: I haven't tried my rets since the digi-dex. I got a bastion for them prior but haven't finished painting it, so I never use it with the WD rules. :(
I'll give them a run out at somepoint I suspect...
D
They are still good. Don't get me wrong. 2 rounds of faith that is reliable is better than 5 rounds that it a coin toss. THe thing that frustrated me the most under the 5th ed rules was that I failed their faith all the freaking time. I know it's just a 4+ but still. I'll take my Ld9 or Ld9 with reroll over a 4+ any day.
I'm running 2 Exo's and an ASF, though for higher point games where i can DFO I might go ADL/Rets for saturation anti-air fire (my meta is loaded with flyers.)
I'm not sure to use the Avenger as anti-tank or anti-infantry, as with the missile launchers it can do both. I'll play around with that and see what happens.
evildrcheese wrote: I haven't tried my rets since the digi-dex. I got a bastion for them prior but haven't finished painting it, so I never use it with the WD rules. :(
I'll give them a run out at somepoint I suspect...
D
They are still good. Don't get me wrong. 2 rounds of faith that is reliable is better than 5 rounds that it a coin toss. THe thing that frustrated me the most under the 5th ed rules was that I failed their faith all the freaking time. I know it's just a 4+ but still. I'll take my Ld9 or Ld9 with reroll over a 4+ any day.
Yeah the 4+ wasn't sup[er reliable, but they were always useful for board control, 36" range of potential rending shots could mess with your opponents heads. I guess they still have that to a certain extent, but now once you've used your faith or if they manage to snipe your Sim Imp then they really lose their shine.
Do you know what used to bug me most with the WD dex and Rets? When I passed the faith test but then failed to get a single rending wound. Seemed to happen far more than the averages should've allowed.
tbh I don't like any of the GW Marine flyers - Forgeworld Storm Eagle yes - rest no......
Love the Valkyrie and the Eldar flyers...........
Not sure how the Valkyrie compares in size to the Valkyrie - I have one painted in Sororitas colours but don't want to called out on sizes if its too small etc.........
evildrcheese wrote: I run 2 exorcists at 1500. I would run a 3rd at a higher point level. The avenger doesn't really appeal to me, as I don't really understand what role it'll fill. Exorcists excel at taking out heavy infantry MEQ and TEQ and light transports (only approx 33% chance of penning av12 anything less than that is gravy), we can bring loads of melta, some of which ignores cover to handle the heavy stuff and lots of flamer weapons for light infantry such as GEQ.
evildrcheese wrote: I haven't tried my rets since the digi-dex. I got a bastion for them prior but haven't finished painting it, so I never use it with the WD rules. :(
I'll give them a run out at somepoint I suspect...
D
They are still good. Don't get me wrong. 2 rounds of faith that is reliable is better than 5 rounds that it a coin toss. THe thing that frustrated me the most under the 5th ed rules was that I failed their faith all the freaking time. I know it's just a 4+ but still. I'll take my Ld9 or Ld9 with reroll over a 4+ any day.
Yeah the 4+ wasn't sup[er reliable, but they were always useful for board control, 36" range of potential rending shots could mess with your opponents heads. I guess they still have that to a certain extent, but now once you've used your faith or if they manage to snipe your Sim Imp then they really lose their shine.
Do you know what used to bug me most with the WD dex and Rets? When I passed the faith test but then failed to get a single rending wound. Seemed to happen far more than the averages should've allowed.
D
This is why I don't like the change to faith for the Retributors as I don't see it being worth it with the chance involved.
Every other act of faith gives a set bonus that you will guarentee a benefit from, rerolls, ignores cover etc. With rendeing however you only have a 1 in 6 chance of the power actually taking affect. Combined with a price increase and one use a rending faith power is not worth it in my eyes.
As to what role the Avenger fills for me it takes the role my Retributors once filled. It isn't able to act as an area denial unit but but fills the role of anti-meq and Anti-air quite nicely. And as I said with the changes to their faith power the avenger does a much better job and killing MEQ Guarenteeing it will be AP3 every turn.
Every other act of faith gives a set bonus that you will guarentee a benefit from, rerolls, ignores cover etc. With rendeing however you only have a 1 in 6 chance of the power actually taking affect. Combined with a price increase and one use a rending faith power is not worth it in my eyes.
Every act gives a USR. The Ret one is no different. They all suffer from bad luck. Some are better than others. I think that a 1 in 6 chance of rending when firing 12-18 shots is pretty good.
Shred - Unless you succesfully make every to wound roll first go every failed wound will benefit from re-roll wounds.
Ignores cover - unless you miss and fail to wound/penetrate with every shot (actually had that happen) every shot will benefit from ignores cover.
Prefered enemy - Unless you succeed with every hit/wound or not roll a single 1 you will gain the benefit of the USR Rending- Only takes effect if you roll a 6 to wound/pen after hitting. That's one to two AP2 wounds per act of faith for a full squad, per game, 4 if you give them the Sim.
Compared to other acts of faith, rending isn't as potent with only 1 to 2 shots actually benefiting from the rule while other acts of faith will benefit with almost every shot you make. Despite this downfall rending is still stuck with the same once per game limitations.
Shred - Makes you wound 5/9 instead of 3/9 most of the time (hand flamers). Enemy still gets saves. So an extra 2/9 that have to get through 3+ saves most of the time.
Ignores Cover - Most of the time, makes your hits 1/3 less likely to fail. Still have to hit.
Preferred Enemy - Gives you 1/6 more hits and wounds. Still have to get through saves and hit.
Rending - Gives you the ability to wound any toughness and pen any AV, ignoring armor on 1/6 of your hits. Still have to hit.
I'm not saying it is the best, but you are over-hyping most of the others.
The fact that it is Ld9 instead of 4+ now and that you can do it twice per game pretty reliably is a big deal. In the past, you got 2.5 Acts off if you took an act every single turn. Now you get 1.66 acts off if you take a simulacrum and VSS. You are more reliable. I would rather have fewer acts when I want them than more acts but not be able to rely on them.
Of course, I overall like the fewer faith acts design we have now vs the faith points type acts we had in the past.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Madcat87 wrote: Compared to other acts of faith, rending isn't as potent with only 1 to 2 shots actually benefiting from the rule while other acts of faith will benefit with almost every shot you make. Despite this downfall rending is still stuck with the same once per game limitations.
This is probably your problem. Every shot that hits potentially benefits from rending. Just like every shot that hits potentially benefits from shred or PE or Ignore cover. It is just a more powerful effect that is less likely to trigger once you hit.
And it isn't once per game, it's twice. Three if you make a jacobus tower.
I like the total amount of shooty from the 4 HBs of a ret squad, regardless of rending or not. Especially now since 4+ armies are the "top tier"
My solution?
3x Exorcists
Canoness
SCS with 4x HBs in a bastion
now I still have my big time Exorcist shooty plus 15 HB shots from my SCS in the tower. Sure its not rending but its still S5 AP4!! Toss in a quad gun on top for a naked BSS or the canoness to fire and im all set.
This plan worked out splendidly on a mass fire warrior list @ 2K i played the other night. Smashed his gun line (we rolled the relic mission).
OutlawBandit wrote: I like the total amount of shooty from the 4 HBs of a ret squad, regardless of rending or not. Especially now since 4+ armies are the "top tier"
My solution?
3x Exorcists
Canoness
SCC with 4x HBs in a bastion
now I still have my big time Exorcist shooty plus 15 HB shots from my SCC in the tower. Sure its not rending but its still S5 AP4!! Toss in a quad gun on top for a naked BSS or the canoness to fire and im all set.
This plan worked out splendidly on a mass fire warrior list @ 2K i played the other night. Smashed his gun line (we rolled the relic mission).
OutlawBandit wrote: I like the total amount of shooty from the 4 HBs of a ret squad, regardless of rending or not. Especially now since 4+ armies are the "top tier"
My solution?
3x Exorcists
Canoness
SCS with 4x HBs in a bastion
now I still have my big time Exorcist shooty plus 15 HB shots from my SCS in the tower. Sure its not rending but its still S5 AP4!! Toss in a quad gun on top for a naked BSS or the canoness to fire and im all set.
This plan worked out splendidly on a mass fire warrior list @ 2K i played the other night. Smashed his gun line (we rolled the relic mission).
Why not 5 heavy bolters?
The 5th SCS member fires the emplaced HB on the tower.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Dont know if yall saw this already but I think the .epub version was updated again. Newest wording of the condemnor is:
Psi-shock: Any Psyker that takes an unsaved Wound from a stake crossbow shot suffers the Perils of the Warp in addition to any other effects.
^ Chances are he used to run rets with 4 HB and only has models for 4 HB models. I like the idea of running them as a SCS in a bastion. I might give that a try at some point.
evildrcheese wrote: ^ Chances are he used to run rets with 4 HB and only has models for 4 HB models. I like the idea of running them as a SCS in a bastion. I might give that a try at some point.
Thanks for the idea.
D
Like most SOB players during the WD dex era, I did run the 4x HB Rets and 2x Exorcist list.
Now that the SCS is no longer hilariously overpriced and I can jam in a HB on each member of the unit it means I can have a sort of Ret HB unit which even without rending is a crapload if firepower and take a full 3x Exorcist choice.
Sadly this was expected. That is why I never bother to change any of mini's. I had a feeling they would make a ruling same way another and I wasn't hacking any of my VSS up without knowing if they were good or not.
