Hey guys, I'm just gonna express my feelings towards the new Ork Codex. I don't play Orks, but my friend just got the codex and we read through it and everything. They got a lot of cool stuff, rules tweaks, much needed things, but the codex is SO bland. I hate the layout of the 7th Edition codex. They have Model pictures instead of nicely drawn, fluffy pictures for the unit descriptions. They include Lords of War, which I know are technically part of the game and it makes it easier to be in the book, but a lot of people don't like fighting Lords of War, but now people can use the excuse of "It's in the codex, I'm free to use it all the time, suck it up." Also, the Orks were one of the most unique armies in my opinion. Their weird rules, randomness, everything like that. Now, most of it is gone. My friend said that they're trying to make all the codexes more like Textbooks. Here's your rules, read them, buy models, play. No story, just bland. Me and him both feel like GW's caring level keeps going down. At this point, I'm not even excited about the Necron Codex when it comes out, since it will probably be set up the same way. I'm not planning on quitting 40k, but I'm probably just gonna focus more on Fantasy, or even something not GW related at all, like Warmachine, since everyone's going that way anyway.

What do you guys think of the codex? Yeah, I know I don't play Orks, but it still pains me to see this codex.

I just bought a Malifaux army for my birthday, I'll be paying for it with lots of 40k ebay auctions. Nuff said?

 Boggy Man wrote:
I just bought a Malifaux army for my birthday, I'll be paying for it with lots of 40k ebay auctions. Nuff said?

Nuff said.

krodarklorr wrote:
Their weird rules, randomness, everything like that. Now, most of it is gone.

I want you to post an example.

 lord_blackfang wrote:

krodarklorr wrote:
Their weird rules, randomness, everything like that. Now, most of it is gone.

I want you to post an example.

I don't have the codex in front of me at the moment, but one for sure is the Shokk Attack Gun. It's just a weapon profile with some rules. It used to have a vivid description, and a more devastating effect if you rolled bad, which sucked, sure. But that was the reason my friend always used it, just because of what could happen. No it's just "The model is removed as a casualty."

Also, the Trukk. No more ramshackle chart? That was fun to watch. Now it's replaced by a simple, and somewhat useless rule.

Yeah, they added the Mob Rule chart, which is pretty cool I guess. But when in Fluff does a green tide of orks ever fail leadership? The old rule made a lot more sense.

krodarklorr wrote:

 lord_blackfang wrote:

krodarklorr wrote:
Their weird rules, randomness, everything like that. Now, most of it is gone.

I want you to post an example.

I don't have the codex in front of me at the moment, but one for sure is the Shokk Attack Gun. It's just a weapon profile with some rules. It used to have a vivid description, and a more devastating effect if you rolled bad, which sucked, sure. But that was the reason my friend always used it, just because of what could happen. No it's just "The model is removed as a casualty."

Also, the Trukk. No more ramshackle chart? That was fun to watch. Now it's replaced by a simple, and somewhat useless rule.

Yeah, they added the Mob Rule chart, which is pretty cool I guess. But when in Fluff does a green tide of orks ever fail leadership? The old rule made a lot more sense.

uhh.. the shokk attack gun has randomness. Have you even read the codex? Its the same as it was before.

My largest complaint about the layout is the amount of page flipping I'll have to do while I'm learning the new point costs of things while making lists for game time.

However it did allow for fun pictures and fluff on every page. They also included fun bits in all the descriptions of weapons and wargear. I guess I could always make a summary sheet of the points costs if I get tired of tearing the pages while making lists.

My opinion is that I am disappointed with the product; not because it is weak but because the designers seem to be making completely arbitrary changes rather than a concerted effort to making the army fun or functional.

Like Mob Rule. Whether it is stronger or weaker is irrelevant next to *why* they changed it from a simple, tactically-relevant rule into a completely random table of results.
Or why they felt that Killa Kanz were overpowered enough to warrant morale checks, the loss of DCCWs and then compounded with a price increase. Meanwhile Mek Guns and Lootas were both made cheaper?
Flash Gits are still non-viable in my eyes because they have a clear job, with no guarantee that they will actually be able to do it.
Grots are still non-viable in my eyes because a Slugga gains so much for a minor points increase.
Foot-Nobz are still a clearly-worse option than a Wagon or Bikes. Why did an army famous for both its forcefield technology and melee prowess, lose all of it's Invulnerables in combat. Was the problem that Shootas were too good, or that Sluggas were too weak? Why were Troop-shifts removed from the army?

It just looks like the units that were made better, were only so because they were made cheaper. Like they just slashed the cost rather than addressing what the problems actually were. Units that were legitimately 'fixed' seem to be Weirdboyz and Tankbustas. This is then ruined by the loss of Kanz, Trukks and utterly bizarre costs for the 'Nauts.

It did nothing to address the problem of Mobs being pushed back by excessive firepower, or to fix the over-reliance on KlawNobz. It did nothing to fix the Zzap Gun or Slugga Boy.
It seems to want you to play Unbound by removing FOC-shifts and having such a bloated HS slot, but then also gives what must be the least-appealing Troops slot of any book in the game. So do we just not take mobs of Boyz anymore?

I'm rambling but the whole book is just confusing. I simply do not understand what the game designers must be experiencing for them to 'fix' the army with something like this, and the only thing I keep coming back to is that they are completely detached from the same game that I play.

My issue with this book is GW's way of making useless units more appealing was Nerfs/ price hikes of those units that were used.
1. For those that need an example Sluggaboys weren't being used so they make Shootaboys more expencive.
2. Everyone took the Dakka Jet so they took its double shoots away.
3. Kan wall was heavily used but dreads not so much/ new over costed Naughts. So stop the Kan wall by nerfing them.
4. Everyone used the Deff rolla, so nerf bat the heck out of it. There now they will use somthing else.
Instead of making useless unit good or improving under whelming units GW just makes the good stuff bad. Argh!!!!!

Dragonzord wrote:

krodarklorr wrote:

 lord_blackfang wrote:

krodarklorr wrote:
Their weird rules, randomness, everything like that. Now, most of it is gone.

I want you to post an example.

I don't have the codex in front of me at the moment, but one for sure is the Shokk Attack Gun. It's just a weapon profile with some rules. It used to have a vivid description, and a more devastating effect if you rolled bad, which sucked, sure. But that was the reason my friend always used it, just because of what could happen. No it's just "The model is removed as a casualty."

Also, the Trukk. No more ramshackle chart? That was fun to watch. Now it's replaced by a simple, and somewhat useless rule.

Yeah, they added the Mob Rule chart, which is pretty cool I guess. But when in Fluff does a green tide of orks ever fail leadership? The old rule made a lot more sense.

uhh.. the shokk attack gun has randomness. Have you even read the codex? Its the same as it was before.

He is talking about the two sentences of fluff that each shokk attack gun random result had before the third sentence, which would be the rule.

As for my opinion, the layout is terrible, I can't imagine writing a list where I have to flip through several pages just to find the points cost of some unit I would want to run. I liked the short and clean army list section of the 6th edition and older books, where they would list 4-6 units a page.

Just finished the codex and its a pile of crap very dry.
You now get punished for taking big mobs of boys with the d6 s4 hits if more than 10 and fail a test (depending on chart roll)
No invun save in cc
7pts for an ork with a gun
Seems very against the boys

Vehicles made out bit better with grot riggers but orks are about there boyz and trucks took a bit of a turn for the worse

Don't think its worth buying the codex it's like the ork release slow, dull, messed up and badly thought out

And the cards seem bit bland as well
Could have saved a lot of time here by saying it feels like the dark angel codex all over again but with added kicking the core of the force square in the nuts

Orkhead wrote:

3. Kan wall was heavily used but dreads not so much/ new over costed Naughts. So stop the Kan wall by nerfing them.

I thought this was dead as of 6th ed.?

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/577513.page#6503281

Just one example. There are plenty more like it if you look.

Maybe the new dex is not all that bad? The sky already fell a long time ago. No need to get worked up now.

So they went the way of Tyranids?

Reduce the prices of most of the models, but don't fix any of the main problems from the old codex, and nerf the units everyone was spamming because otherwise you are looking at getting tabled Turn 3?

10penceman wrote:
Just finished the codex and its a pile of crap very dry.
You now get punished for taking big mobs of boys with the d6 s4 hits if more than 10 and fail a test (depending on chart roll)
No invun save in cc
7pts for an ork with a gun
Seems very against the boys

Vehicles made out bit better with grot riggers but orks are about there boyz and trucks took a bit of a turn for the worse

Don't think its worth buying the codex it's like the ork release slow, dull, messed up and badly thought out

And the cards seem bit bland as well
Could have saved a lot of time here by saying it feels like the dark angel codex all over again but with added kicking the core of the force square in the nuts

Not So sure about that.

With Orks you get the Ork Warband Formation. Some things to remember about this Formation are

a. Minimum point investment is 464 pts. No upgrades No MegaNobz
b. 6 units of Boyz that can move, run, charge every turn.
c. Taking large units of Boyz will allow you to spread them out blocking your opponents movement.
d. A unit of Nobz is only 3 models

This formation is custom made for boyz and counts as a single detachment. Waaagh! does not apply equally to all Ork models and you can take a combine arms detachment to lump your mek into that do not run or need the Waaagh! to function like Nob Bikers who do not run. There are disappointments but Orks are sure to get supplement Codexs that will flesh them out better. This Codex right now is just a base.

 Happyjew wrote:
So they went the way of Tyranids?

Reduce the prices of most of the models, but don't fix any of the main problems from the old codex, and nerf the units everyone was spamming because otherwise you are looking at getting tabled Turn 3?

Not even that. Lootas and Guns were made even cheaper despite being some of the best units in the old book. It's simply baffling.

Malikjack wrote:
but Orks are sure to get supplement Codexs that will flesh them out better. This Codex right now is just a base.

This is not a good thing.

Nobs in shoota boyz squad cannot have sluggas.

Most of the people that happy with it are all drooling over the layout like a bunch of goobs. In reality the codex took an overall nerf.

Orks struggled in the last edition because of the shooting rules taking models from the front and that shooting got ramped out massively since the days of 4th and 5th Ed. With cover becoming worse, overwatch, multi charging being nearly impossible, wounds from the front, mass access to rerolls (prescience) and the nerf to furious charge the orks had an uphill battle. Then 7th rolled out and cover once again became worse with the loss of area terrain and craters going to 6+.

What Orks needed was the army wide FNP and brutal assaults, and 5pt sluggas 6pt shootas. Instead they lost over all durability with Kff turning into a very small bubble again (news flash that's how it was before the 4th ed codex and it didn't work well then it sure in hell wont now) increased point cost and many units that didn't require it, and some pretty heavy handed nerfs to others. Top that with the removal of fearless and making mobz depend on Nobz massively is just another uphill battle. Then remove some characters and slot swapping and you get a book that is worse then it was.

And sure you can make the warboss in mega armour tank wounds with the luck stikk, with a 2+ rerollable but that is such an annoying gimmick don't expect to be happy about it.

Overall winners in the codex are the mek gunz, but at double the price of the pewter versions its just another kick to the balls.

Add in the normalization of Lords of War and formations and you see GWs goal of splitting books up as much as possible to monetize the hell out of it.

A terrible codex where change that was arbitrary in what codex rules were adapted for 7th edition and nothing that really tempts me to want to play Orks ever again.

Point cost changes don't really make sense at all in some cases and lots of the upgrades that got nerfed seem like a swift kick in the nuts as an extra thank you for your 50 dollar purchase.

The fact that I have to shell out another 50 bucks for the pre order supplement to make my army slightly better is further insult.

 Yonan wrote:

Malikjack wrote:
but Orks are sure to get supplement Codexs that will flesh them out better. This Codex right now is just a base.

This is not a good thing.

Good or not this is the way GW is operating now. In a way it is a return to 3rd in format. It would not surprise me if we see a SM codex and watch Blood Angels, Wolves, Templar, and Dark Angels return to being supplemental codex's again.

''And when we've nerfed every codex, then no-one will be happy. When we re-start the codex creep, everyone will breathe an orgasmic sigh of relief and rush out to buy the newest cheese.''


Step 1: Nerfbat
Step 2: Codex Creep
Step 3: Profit

 Ravenous D wrote:

What Orks needed was the army wide FNP

hahahaha. no. just no.

 lord_blackfang wrote:

krodarklorr wrote:
Their weird rules, randomness, everything like that. Now, most of it is gone.

I want you to post an example.

well I know I liked the trukk ramshackle rules FAR better than roll a 6 to turn a pen to a glance. str 3 hits were way better than str 4 hits. and the random chance to end up somewhere else was funny. Psychic random abilities might have been less reliable, but were more lulzy for sure.

Dragonzord wrote:

 Ravenous D wrote:

What Orks needed was the army wide FNP

hahahaha. no. just no.

Necrons maybe. But Orks no.

 WarOne wrote:

Dragonzord wrote:

 Ravenous D wrote:

What Orks needed was the army wide FNP

hahahaha. no. just no.

Necrons maybe. But Orks no.

imagine 180+ boyz with FNP... god that would be the most broken thing ever.

GW can't win with layout. I have seen so many threads of people complaining about how crap the old layout was because the rules/fluff were listed in one place and the points another. Now GW has gone "Okay...well then how about we put everything on one page like you want" and now they get crap for that. There's no layout that's going to please everyone though I'm sure someone has already/will post how someone else has done it better.

Personally I liked the old layout and blame the jerks who complained about it for the change far more then I blame GW for it.

Dragonzord wrote:

 WarOne wrote:

Dragonzord wrote:

 Ravenous D wrote:

What Orks needed was the army wide FNP

hahahaha. no. just no.

Necrons maybe. But Orks no.

imagine 180+ boyz with FNP... god that would be the most broken thing ever.

Its not broken at all. Iron hands marines get 6+ FNP as a chapter tactic without being even close to OP.

I see a book of nothing but problems. No solutions.

How do I build a list to deal with massed IG tanks/wyverns?
How do I build a list to deal with centurion stars?
How do I build a list to fight wave serpents?
How do I build a list to stop massed missilesides?
How do I build a list to fight invisible spawn tide?
How do I build a list to compete with beastar?
How do I build a list to hurt dronestar/daemon flying circus?

I don't see anything but weaknesses.

Massed orks are more vulnerable than ever in a game where thunderfire cannons/wyverns are the weapons of choice for dealing with hordes.

Battlewagons got more expensive for something that was already far easier to kill than armor 14 would suggest (open topped armor 12 side vehicles who have massive side profiles).

Moral is now a bigger problem than ever before. Even kanz are going to run away. Things that 90% of the other armies laugh are HUGE problems for us. Pinning, fear, etc.

Big gunz are the biggest culprit. Toughness 7 is strong, but not invincible. Kill a few grots and they will see themselves off the table. At least they are cheap.

Which leads to the problem of heavy support bloat. If the community widely accepts multiple force org.... well good, I guess (although it helps other armies with far more effective choices than more than our army). If multiple force org is rejected by the community.... heaven help us.

At the end of the day, the ork codex has nothing that turns an 'okay' or 'great' unit into THE REAL ULTIMATE POWER like the other books have. Orks have nothing to 'smooth' the dice out or to turn things from a mathematical probability to a mathematical certainty. We don't have army wide rerolls. And sadly, since 6th ed... its really the only way to do business.

Its first vs third world here. Have's and have not's. You either have all the rerolls, or you don't. And the power gulf will only widen with time (as more and more imperial armies get 'updated' and can battlebrother each other).

scimitar wrote:

Dragonzord wrote:

 WarOne wrote:

Dragonzord wrote:

 Ravenous D wrote:

What Orks needed was the army wide FNP

hahahaha. no. just no.

Necrons maybe. But Orks no.

imagine 180+ boyz with FNP... god that would be the most broken thing ever.

Its not broken at all. Iron hands marines get 6+ FNP as a chapter tactic without being even close to OP.

Do iron hands get 6 point models in large numbers?

The more I read the codex, the more I despise it, even though I should give it a chance still.

I guess if I were to just come out and say it. I think this is what is the 5 things wrong with the codex.


1. No cybork body for anyone who is not a HQ and only very limited HQ's get it. I beleive only Ghaszksull and Mad doc get it. Might be a couple of others but without Cybork Body. Even Meganobs are a waste of points.

2. Snikrot no longer can take a HQ with him. This is EXTREMELY AGGRAVATING!!! This was one of my most Charished and beloved tactics. Hold thraka in reserves and have Snikrot bring him in on the back edge of the board.

I did this once at an ard boys semi finals and Not a single person in the building ever even HEARD of this tactic! No one ever used Snikrot or Kommandos! The Judge had to look up 3 different sets of rules and I had to explain to him why it was possible! I did not do well in the tourny, BUT, I turned a lot of heads that day! It was one of my most epic moments during 5th edition.

3. No New HQ's and Not enough new units. - This is a serious drawback, especially if you consider us Loosing two HQ choices. You could argue that Snikrot and Badrukk are in now but that is not good enough.

4. Zagstrukk lost his most unique ability ever. The ability to assault after a deep strike is why people even considered taking Storm boys in the first place.
Now storm boys will never see the table again. If they were going to take away his one and only unique ability. They should had just completely removed him from the game. No one is going to buy storm boys now and no one will be able to justify buying a Zagstrukk anymore. All he is, is a Stormboy Nob with a power claw and nothing else.

5. AV of Ork Meks and vehicles is out of Wack! A Stompa should NOT have 13 13 12. It should have 14 14 12. Why does a Stompa have the same AV as a Gorkanought? Kill kans are 11's, Deff Dread is bigger and has 12's, Gorka is bigger and has 13's and Stompa is TWICE as big as that and still has the same AV?!!? What the Grog is this?

It is little unbalanced things like that.

Lot's of good stuff still though I guess.

Orktavius wrote:
GW can't win with layout. I have seen so many threads of people complaining about how crap the old layout was because the rules/fluff were listed in one place and the points another. Now GW has gone "Okay...well then how about we put everything on one page like you want" and now they get crap for that. There's no layout that's going to please everyone though I'm sure someone has already/will post how someone else has done it better.

Personally I liked the old layout and blame the jerks who complained about it for the change far more then I blame GW for it.

Mea culpa.

I admit that I complained about the old layout and now I see I was wrong

Before: page flipping to 3 places if you wanted to find out everything about a single unit (unit rules, wargear rules, point cost) but a concise army list section for list building

Now: page flipping to 2 places if you wanted to find out everything about a single unit (unit rules + point cost, wargear rules) plus flipping back and forth forever when writing an army list

For those without the codex I did my best to cover it ALL: http://www.talkwargaming.com/2014/06/new-release-codex-orks.html

I'm sorry for not copying and pasting it here but the formatting required to do that would take me all night to do (and it already took me all day to type that all).

The new layout being bad doesn't somehow validate the old one. It's possible to *not* have a bad layout... it's always amusing to find out that GW can make things even worse, no matter how bad they are haha.

 ClockworkZion wrote:
For those without the codex I did my best to cover it ALL: http://www.talkwargaming.com/2014/06/new-release-codex-orks.html

I'm sorry for not copying and pasting it here but the formatting required to do that would take me all night to do (and it already took me all day to type that all).

I really enjoy your initial reviews. Thanks for that.

Embrace the change :3

krodarklorr wrote:Hey guys, I'm just gonna express my feelings towards the new Ork Codex. I don't play Orks, but my friend just got the codex and we read through it and everything. They got a lot of cool stuff, rules tweaks, much needed things, but the codex is SO bland. I hate the layout of the 7th Edition codex. They have Model pictures instead of nicely drawn, fluffy pictures for the unit descriptions. They include Lords of War, which I know are technically part of the game and it makes it easier to be in the book, but a lot of people don't like fighting Lords of War, but now people can use the excuse of "It's in the codex, I'm free to use it all the time, suck it up." Also, the Orks were one of the most unique armies in my opinion. Their weird rules, randomness, everything like that. Now, most of it is gone. My friend said that they're trying to make all the codexes more like Textbooks. Here's your rules, read them, buy models, play. No story, just bland. Me and him both feel like GW's caring level keeps going down. At this point, I'm not even excited about the Necron Codex when it comes out, since it will probably be set up the same way. I'm not planning on quitting 40k, but I'm probably just gonna focus more on Fantasy, or even something not GW related at all, like Warmachine, since everyone's going that way anyway.

What do you guys think of the codex? Yeah, I know I don't play Orks, but it still pains me to see this codex.

To be fair, even without Lords of War in the Ork codex, you could have taken a LoW anyway. LoW is part of the Rulebook's standard FoC. As always; you have the right to say no to a game for whatever reason. (I refuse to play against a LoW against *some* players in my store because I know they've written a nasty, cheesy list.)

On topic: I dislike the new layout, I preferred the last one's layout.
I hate the change to Cybork Body.
Grotsnik is kinda better/kinda worse. He lost his cyborking, but otherwise he's better.
Disappointed at the Meganobz cost.
Disappointed with Nobz too. They went down by a few points, but their bikes went up by the same amount....

Dragonzord wrote:

 WarOne wrote:

Dragonzord wrote:

 Ravenous D wrote:

What Orks needed was the army wide FNP

hahahaha. no. just no.

Necrons maybe. But Orks no.

imagine 180+ boyz with FNP... god that would be the most broken thing ever.

a) It wouldn't really be broken.
b) This is actually very very doable...

If they could mess up the Ork Codex this bad. I just cannot wait for them to Mess up my second largest army ( my space wolves ).

I feel obligated to expand on Tau ( army I have tiny amount of but don't care about ), Just because I don't want to play with a completely useless army and loose 90% of the time.

I will still try and mod my ork army into a Freebooter / bad moons type army. That is the only viable build anymore.

My opinion on the new codex is... meh. After the Armageddon codex (supplement) the Ork codices have been downhill IMHO. (Well, Kans are cool.) Nothing really excites me about the new units, and the rule changes seem to be changes for the sake of change, not to make the game more playable or fun. That's how it reads, anyway. Maybe it plays differently. But I remember when the Kult of Speed list came out I was really excited to buy, model and paint a bunch of trucks and buggies! With this codex... I've still got lots of models left to paint, so I don't need/want anything new. But hey, at least my Big Mek in Mega Armor with a KFF is legal again!

For the love of god give it a freaking WEEK before you cry that its the "worst thing evaaaa"
They said the same about eldar ffs, look at them now.

Not saying ork codex will be top tier OPness, but heck it just MIGHT turn out to be alright?

Goresaw wrote:
I see a book of nothing but problems. No solutions.

How do I build a list to deal with massed IG tanks/wyverns?
How do I build a list to deal with centurion stars?
How do I build a list to fight wave serpents?
How do I build a list to stop massed missilesides?
How do I build a list to fight invisible spawn tide?
How do I build a list to compete with beastar?
How do I build a list to hurt dronestar/daemon flying circus?

I don't see anything but weaknesses.

Massed orks are more vulnerable than ever in a game where thunderfire cannons/wyverns are the weapons of choice for dealing with hordes.

Battlewagons got more expensive for something that was already far easier to kill than armor 14 would suggest (open topped armor 12 side vehicles who have massive side profiles).

Moral is now a bigger problem than ever before. Even kanz are going to run away. Things that 90% of the other armies laugh are HUGE problems for us. Pinning, fear, etc.

Big gunz are the biggest culprit. Toughness 7 is strong, but not invincible. Kill a few grots and they will see themselves off the table. At least they are cheap.

Which leads to the problem of heavy support bloat. If the community widely accepts multiple force org.... well good, I guess (although it helps other armies with far more effective choices than more than our army). If multiple force org is rejected by the community.... heaven help us.

At the end of the day, the ork codex has nothing that turns an 'okay' or 'great' unit into THE REAL ULTIMATE POWER like the other books have. Orks have nothing to 'smooth' the dice out or to turn things from a mathematical probability to a mathematical certainty. We don't have army wide rerolls. And sadly, since 6th ed... its really the only way to do business.

Its first vs third world here. Have's and have not's. You either have all the rerolls, or you don't. And the power gulf will only widen with time (as more and more imperial armies get 'updated' and can battlebrother each other).

This is the issue. Army wide rerolls should not be the standard. Us getting an army wide 5+ FNP or even a 6+ FNP wouldn't do much to solve our problems anyway. And it would have only caused EVERYTHING to go up in price points wise. You can bet your bottom dollar on that. I don't feel like spending 10 points or more per Boy BEFORE upgrades.

Maybe I'm the only one who hasn't had an issue with this so far. Just play the game, and stop complaining so hard. It sucks some things changed. Things will ALWAYS change. Whimpering like a grot online isn't going to make the book any better or worse. If supplements are the way they start going to buff armies, so be it. I'm buying the Ghaz sup because I want to use the amazing formations I've been hearing about to give a boon to my play styles.

It really was a bit much to expect us to be on par with the other races. I doubt Orks ever will be, and we have to get over it. Marines/Eldar/Tau we are not. We da Orks! And we krump! Win or lose.

It really does seem that the formations in the ghazz book will become the norm because of how awesome they are. Which I have zero problem with at all. The more content the better.

Mixed views on the new Codex.

- Loss of Invuns for Nobz
- Nobz cannot be Troops
- loss of Dust Cloud on Bikes
- No Zogswort
- Mek tools got nerfed

+/- KFF. Unecided on the change yet.

+ some point drops
+ formations are solid
+ decent Warlord traits
+ WAAAGH! is back to run & charge.
+ Unit size increase for Buggy's & Kanz.

Biggest gripe has already been mentioned. Layout is terrible. I couldn't even work out what unit went in what slot at first until I noticed the icons.

AHAHAHAHA!!! Finally, Ghazzy is given his due.

He's not an HQ. He's right up there in the 'Force of Nature" category with Stompas.

Yeah, I'm really not that bothered about the Ork Codex. It seems that Orks, CSM, DA and Nids are the standard of Codex we should be expecting and, compared to them, the Ork Codex is not bad at all. Eldar and Tau are just the overpowered exceptions to the rule.

The best thing about the Ork Codex is that it's balanced, as they've brought almost everything in line. Flash Gitz, Tankbustas, Stormboyz and the like are all viable now, where they weren't before whereas the go-to choices, such as Nob Bikers, are still viable but not so much of an auto-include as they once were. The new formations are also an interesting addition.

The only thing that annoys me is the restrictions on a lot of the wargear. Only one Gift of Gork (or possibly Mork for example). I guess that is understandable, but a B;itzbike Boss with the Finking Cap and Lucky Stikk would be awesome. Only one orky know-wot is very annoying though, and less understandable. How come my Warboss can't have a bike and a bosspole?

 The Shadow wrote:
The only thing that annoys me is the restrictions on a lot of the wargear. Only one Gift of Gork (or possibly Mork for example). I guess that is understandable, but a B;itzbike Boss with the Finking Cap and Lucky Stikk would be awesome. Only one orky know-wot is very annoying though, and less understandable. How come my Warboss can't have a bike and a bosspole?

I think you need to read those bits again.

"One of each" means one of each, not a total of one.

Personally my opinion of the codex has to come in a set of bullet points:

-Layout feels catalogue-esque.. As in I feel in terms of the layout, I payed money for what looks like a WD..

-It feels as if there should have been more to it.. Like stuff such as making Zagstruck a HQ and Badrukk as well, they could have added FoC swaps such as Stormboys and Flash Gitz as troops for example, it feels as if it it could have been more bolder imo, I mean stuff like the tellyporta Nobz/MANZ and Telepotra rumours sounded very bold but not OTT, if anyone cathes my drift? the most experimental Ive seen out of the book is the Big Gunz if I'm honest and that's kinda it, most of everything else was a rehash of the old codex, just cleaned up for 7th imo, in turn it makes the codex feel bland tbh..

Orktavius wrote:GW can't win with layout.

I'd be happy if they could simply complete a cycle of codexes all with the same layout. I don't think this one is any better or worse than the last, it just smacks of someone coming up with change to justify their job.


As for the codex contents, as a long-time ork player, I'm disappointed. I played my first game yesterday, with a healthy number of boyz on the table, including some of the new buffed cheaper types (stormboyz), and was tabled pretty easily. It felt like I was fighting up-hill the whole way and never really had any sort of control over the game. I don't think that what few buffs were handed out nearly make up for what was lost, and the codex will still struggle when built as an assault army.

But more games might find something.

 Redbeard wrote:

But more games might find something.

Best way tbh, I played my first game with a Stompa which I won however I felt as if I struggled during the end of the game though, and that was with Orks against Tyranids..

Like I say more games and I'm sure us Ork players will find something to crack over the head with

Why can't GW just make codex with just army rules or even post them online and if someone wants to read fluff he buy a book for it. Then they wouldn't have problems with people disliking the layout and we wouldn't have to pay for books which half is no use to gaming.

 Redbeard wrote:

Orktavius wrote:GW can't win with layout.

I'd be happy if they could simply complete a cycle of codexes all with the same layout. I don't think this one is any better or worse than the last, it just smacks of someone coming up with change to justify their job.


As for the codex contents, as a long-time ork player, I'm disappointed. I played my first game yesterday, with a healthy number of boyz on the table, including some of the new buffed cheaper types (stormboyz), and was tabled pretty easily. It felt like I was fighting up-hill the whole way and never really had any sort of control over the game. I don't think that what few buffs were handed out nearly make up for what was lost, and the codex will still struggle when built as an assault army.

But more games might find something.

no you are pretty much on the money. Played 4 games so far, and mob rule is absolutely crippling, my kans while being 6 cant scratch a land raider if needed, everything just feels more garbagey. But hey, at least we can get more of it! Buy those models kiddies. Oh and having my warboss crushed by a powerfist with no chance of invun and feel no pain being ignored was fun too.

Makumba wrote:
Why can't GW just make codex with just army rules or even post them online and if someone wants to read fluff he buy a book for it. Then they wouldn't have problems with people disliking the layout and we wouldn't have to pay for books which half is no use to gaming.

GW giving stuff away fro free?

I play Bikes so this codex isn't that bad, still hoping for a Bike Kult of Speed Supplement ala Codex Armagedeon (aka the good old days). This codex relies on multi-FOC to be playable. It is truly the first 7th edition codex.

Also:

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/602713.page#6977763

It looks like cheap crap so in that regard it's a rip-off. The rules got more bland, but stronger. The combination of new edition and new orks mean a lot stronger orks now which pleases me.

It's a huge disappointment but I can live with it.

That's similar to my impression of the IG 'dex. One of the better ones lately (still not as well done as it should have been) but whilst it's better balanced it just seems more bland. Ripping out all the characters really doesn't help in that regard I guess!

Dragonzord wrote:

scimitar wrote:

Dragonzord wrote:

 WarOne wrote:

Dragonzord wrote:

 Ravenous D wrote:

What Orks needed was the army wide FNP

hahahaha. no. just no.

Necrons maybe. But Orks no.

imagine 180+ boyz with FNP... god that would be the most broken thing ever.

Its not broken at all. Iron hands marines get 6+ FNP as a chapter tactic without being even close to OP.

Do iron hands get 6 point models in large numbers?

Are Iron Hands normal saves ignored by the vast majority of weapons in the game?

See, I can do this too.

Makumba wrote:
Why can't GW just make codex with just army rules or even post them online and if someone wants to read fluff he buy a book for it. Then they wouldn't have problems with people disliking the layout and we wouldn't have to pay for books which half is no use to gaming.

Because, as GW have repeatedly said, it isn't just about playing the game, it's the background and building / painting models as well. All three together.
Stormboyz are crazy cheap now.

 lord_blackfang wrote:

 The Shadow wrote:
The only thing that annoys me is the restrictions on a lot of the wargear. Only one Gift of Gork (or possibly Mork for example). I guess that is understandable, but a B;itzbike Boss with the Finking Cap and Lucky Stikk would be awesome. Only one orky know-wot is very annoying though, and less understandable. How come my Warboss can't have a bike and a bosspole?

I think you need to read those bits again.

"One of each" means one of each, not a total of one.

Ah, missed the "each", thanks for pointing that out!

Still want my Kap and Stikk though....

Dragonzord wrote:

krodarklorr wrote:

 lord_blackfang wrote:

krodarklorr wrote:
Their weird rules, randomness, everything like that. Now, most of it is gone.

I want you to post an example.

I don't have the codex in front of me at the moment, but one for sure is the Shokk Attack Gun. It's just a weapon profile with some rules. It used to have a vivid description, and a more devastating effect if you rolled bad, which sucked, sure. But that was the reason my friend always used it, just because of what could happen. No it's just "The model is removed as a casualty."

Also, the Trukk. No more ramshackle chart? That was fun to watch. Now it's replaced by a simple, and somewhat useless rule.

Yeah, they added the Mob Rule chart, which is pretty cool I guess. But when in Fluff does a green tide of orks ever fail leadership? The old rule made a lot more sense.

uhh.. the shokk attack gun has randomness. Have you even read the codex? Its the same as it was before.

the SAG fluff has gone.

- zagstruks fluff based swoop is gone.
- snikrot no longer can assault and lost the fear thingy
- ghazskull has ONE special rule. no unique equipment or trait.
- troop choices for nobz/bikes had been fluffed away
- looted wagons? since when do ork capture and loot enemy vehicles?
- orks surviving the deadliest wounds, run into enemy fire with a breathful of waaagh! as long as there're lots of ladz with em?
- used to have an entire page full of fluff for each unit, now its a couple of rows...

so yeah. they have a fluff section. and then there are the game rules and the units. one thing has nothin to do with the other. great uh?!

 lord_blackfang wrote:

Before: page flipping to 3 places if you wanted to find out everything about a single unit (unit rules, wargear rules, point cost) but a concise army list section for list building

Now: page flipping to 2 places if you wanted to find out everything about a single unit (unit rules + point cost, wargear rules) plus flipping back and forth forever when writing an army list

pretty much this.
waagh! rules are in the warboss entry. ere we go in the appendix.
weirboy table under appendix. but warpcharge generation under weirdboy again.

when writing armylists you used to have a easily and accessible summary in the last 7 pages, now you have to flip (A HARDCOVERBOOK!) forth and back... not a great improvment.

EDIT:

 The Shadow wrote:

 lord_blackfang wrote:
The only thing that annoys me is the restrictions on a lot of the wargear. Only one Gift of Gork (or possibly Mork for example). I guess that is understandable, but a B;itzbike Boss with the Finking Cap and Lucky Stikk would be awesome. Only one orky know-wot is very annoying though, and less understandable. How come my Warboss can't have a bike and a bosspole?

I think you need to read those bits again.

"One of each" means one of each, not a total of one.

yeah you can have multiple gifts.
but ONE model can only have ONE gift

RedNoak wrote:

- ghazskull has ONE special rule. no unique equipment or trait.

He has a Warlord Trait: "Prophet of the Waaagh!". Characters don't get Warlord Traits that aren't on the table somewhere. And while he only has one unique rule it's still a very good one, and he kept all of his old rules too. He's a proper beast of a character even without him having special wargear (which he's never had, his most unique thing was the skullplate he has but that only gave him Eternal Warrior, which he's still got).

Well i quit 40K a while back ive been waiting for the ork dex to see if it was worth getting back into 40k by the look of this thread im gonna be sticking with the Batman miniatures game

Overall, I like the book. The format is taking a lot to get used to, but I really like the flexibility the book actually is providing to me. Granted, I also don't play in an environment that limits Detachments, allies, LoW and other limitations. So, a double CAD for Orks allows me the flexibility to build exactly what I want.

 ClockworkZion wrote:

He has a Warlord Trait: "Prophet of the Waaagh!". Characters don't get Warlord Traits that aren't on the table somewhere. And while he only has one unique rule it's still a very good one, and he kept all of his old rules too. He's a proper beast of a character even without him having special wargear (which he's never had, his most unique thing was the skullplate he has but that only gave him Eternal Warrior, which he's still got).

prophet used to make orks fearless and all units could run 6".
the skullplate was pretty fluffy and in addition to eternal warrior it gave him +2A on the charge.

and dont get me started on the 3rd edition ghaz -.-

 BoomWolf wrote:
For the love of god give it a freaking WEEK before you cry that its the "worst thing evaaaa"

sorry but after more than a decade of playing 40k i can put thing into perspective without the need to play over 9000 games...

sure its only an estimation but still, you dont need a college degree in arithmetics to see that thing had gone downhill.
mostly, things were buffed with a minor point decrease and were nerfed with massive rule changes.

that's never a good way to balance something...

Honestly I feel what really "makes or breaks" the codex is the new Mob Rule. With Ld7 being codex wide and there not being much of a way to mitigate that the new Mob Rule punishes you for failing the test. If that was different I think I'd be more excited about the codex, but as is I'm more like "it's okay" than "it's good".

Crimson-King2120 wrote:
Well i quit 40K a while back ive been waiting for the ork dex to see if it was worth getting back into 40k by the look of this thread im gonna be sticking with the Batman miniatures game

Yeah Batman will always be better (I love that game)

Honestly though it really is a "go experiment for yourself" style of Codex, and what's happening is that there are a lot of people criticising that it has changed, now I understand the responses afterall if I made a conversion for wazdakka, I would have been peeved off too, but we to have good options as well, so we can start dabbling and experimenting imo..

 happygolucky wrote:
and what's happening is that there are a lot of people criticising that it has changed

That's not really what I've been hearing, the old Codex was ancient, wasn't it the oldest codex? People were looking for and excited for an update and some change, they just aren't happy with the direction of the change. At least that's the way it seems to me, I'm not an Ork player (got a few hundred points but never pursued it).

AllSeeingSkink wrote:

 happygolucky wrote:
and what's happening is that there are a lot of people criticising that it has changed

That's not really what I've been hearing, the old Codex was ancient, wasn't it the oldest codex? People were looking for and excited for an update and some change, they just aren't happy with the direction of the change. At least that's the way it seems to me, I'm not an Ork player (got a few hundred points but never pursued it).

No people are just criticising that they did not get "break the game" combo 101, if I want to be specific..

Personally like I say I can understand some of the criticism's such as the removal of wazdakka and the change of the Mob Rule..

However there are others complaining that Stompas don't have a ranged D weapon and that its not 14 all around..

Lately I've been seeing a lot more of the former rather than the latter..

 happygolucky wrote:

AllSeeingSkink wrote:

 happygolucky wrote:
and what's happening is that there are a lot of people criticising that it has changed

That's not really what I've been hearing, the old Codex was ancient, wasn't it the oldest codex? People were looking for and excited for an update and some change, they just aren't happy with the direction of the change. At least that's the way it seems to me, I'm not an Ork player (got a few hundred points but never pursued it).

No people are just criticising that they did not get "break the game" combo 101, if I want to be specific..

Personally like I say I can understand some of the criticism's such as the removal of wazdakka and the change of the Mob Rule..

However there are others complaining that Stompas don't have a ranged D weapon and that its not 14 all around..

Lately I've been seeing a lot more of the former rather than the latter..

*Citation Needed*

Seriously most people just want a dex that doesn't feel like you need to struggle to fight the most basic armies in the game.

The biggest failure of the current army design is its complete lack of fun.

As an army designer, the VERY FIRST QUESTION you should ask yourself is, "does this make the army more fun to play for the user". This is a fundamental question I really don't think they asked. This is an army you're going to spend most of the time fighting your own army rather than your opponent. Its going to be an awful lot of your own units not cooperating and not performing as expected. Running away, blowing up, etc. You could say thats the 'character' of orks, but if you look at prior editions, other than the SAG, the army was pretty reliable. Thats what made them 'competitive' for years. It was the fact that you could count on 120ish boyz to not instantly evaporate and continue to move towards objectives. Not anymore...

Again, if you look at tournament appearances of orks over the last few months, and its rather horrifying. Everything that was... okay... is now worse. And everything that was bad is now... less bad?

Who knows though, maybe I'm just weird and do not have fun watching my army kill itself over its low leadership, beloved units get worse, and watch everyone else's army get stronger.

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:

 happygolucky wrote:

AllSeeingSkink wrote:

 happygolucky wrote:
and what's happening is that there are a lot of people criticising that it has changed

That's not really what I've been hearing, the old Codex was ancient, wasn't it the oldest codex? People were looking for and excited for an update and some change, they just aren't happy with the direction of the change. At least that's the way it seems to me, I'm not an Ork player (got a few hundred points but never pursued it).

No people are just criticising that they did not get "break the game" combo 101, if I want to be specific..

Personally like I say I can understand some of the criticism's such as the removal of wazdakka and the change of the Mob Rule..

However there are others complaining that Stompas don't have a ranged D weapon and that its not 14 all around..

Lately I've been seeing a lot more of the former rather than the latter..

*Citation Needed*

Seriously most people just want a dex that doesn't feel like you need to struggle to fight the most basic armies in the game.

Ok fair enough this quote is from another thread (as the two threads are similar, I may have confused the threads), but this is the response that I have been seeing a lot and especially around various social networking sites as well

 Gold tooth Jerry wrote:
I have the codex and I am pissed. No new big thing that has d weapon or some new thing thats overpowered in the right use. Nothing at all. Same old models, worse rules. Hell the points should of been reduced by half if they expect numbers to win the day with the gak thats out there right now.

WTF is up with the mob rule. How was it so broken that it had to be fixed in such a harsh way. With all the crazy gak that every new imperium codex gets, wave after wave, of new technology and techniques that make even more powerful units, orks get nothing. Wtf is Ghaz being LOW. From purely game play perspective wtf. feth the fluffy reason. The only good named guy in the book and now you have to take him when your facing super heavy walker spam lists. How the hell do they think any of this makes sense? Stuff that worked is nerfed to hell, stuff that was useless was buffed but not enough to warrant points, again. Every thing still dies if your opponent sneezes on the table. Hard boy armor costing almost as much as another ork and its still just 4+. Nerf to cybork body, Nerf to red paint job, nerf to fnp. Nerf to kff, I guess games workshop really has become a garbage miniatures company that used to make good rules. For as long as its been a bad codex, at least give us ork players something to want to play again. Hell if you made some big powerful expensive unit we would drop the money for it, but not you just regurgitate models and nerfed rules.

I predict the prices of orks on ebay are going to drop because of supply soon. Sometimes I wonder if GW actually created the original 40k or if they bought ti from some smart person.

Personally again I'm going to have an explore with the codex and see what I it offers when I don't armchair everything in the perfect/disastrous scenario like everyone else is, and personally as another member who plays CSM and payed a shed ton of money into both armies, I don't really like the idea of being shafted again as its not like I have the funds to just go out and buy another army nor do can I just sell an army of personal value more than I care to share.

Feels like our Ork dex was written by a Space Marine player or something.

And the reason the crying will die down after a few weeks is that the people who aren't willing to bend over, spread cheeks and 'adapt' will be gone, and 40k will be down even more players.

Hell, we just had a major tournament here over the past two days - three people showed up.

krodarklorr wrote:
They have Model pictures instead of nicely drawn, fluffy pictures for the unit descriptions.

Not just model pictures, but ENORMOUS ones so they can have jack-all fluff text.

 Boggy Man wrote:
I just bought a Malifaux army for my birthday, I'll be paying for it with lots of 40k ebay auctions. Nuff said?

Haha I hear that

Except I doubt you'd need to sell all that much 40k to buy an army. Here in NZ two starter boxes costs substantially less than a Gorkanaught

 Dakkamite wrote:

 Boggy Man wrote:
I just bought a Malifaux army for my birthday, I'll be paying for it with lots of 40k ebay auctions. Nuff said?

Haha I hear that

Except I doubt you'd need to sell all that much 40k to buy an army. Here in NZ two starter boxes costs substantially less than a Gorkanaught

I sold my SM army and bought two Infinity forces and some Warmachine.

Don't have a real opinion on them yet, but it was pretty god damn hilarious seeing Reecius' face when his orks killed 16 of themselves turn 1 in his last batrep.

 MWHistorian wrote:

 Dakkamite wrote:

 Boggy Man wrote:
I just bought a Malifaux army for my birthday, I'll be paying for it with lots of 40k ebay auctions. Nuff said?

Haha I hear that

Except I doubt you'd need to sell all that much 40k to buy an army. Here in NZ two starter boxes costs substantially less than a Gorkanaught

I sold my SM army and bought two Infinity forces and some Warmachine.

Must have been a hell of a force if you could buy Warmachine with it =/

I think a lot of people are looking at the base points costs for some units and not seeing the changes within the units themselves.

Example:
Killkannon on Battlewagons dropped 30 points. But Battlewagon went up 20. Also I can give it It Will Not Die.

There weren't a lot of changes to the actual models. Kommandos, Mek Guns, Flash Gitz, and Tankbustas had the biggest changes from what I can tell. There are a few others but I can't remember off hand.


Based on my reading of Ghazzy. He has a Warlord trait. Page 124 in the BRB states that Characters can be nominated as Warlords. So him being a LoW is not a limiting factor at all.

Sadly the LoW slot will only have issues because of Tournament Organizers saying they're OP and we don't want them. Just like the start of last edition with Fliers. Its becoming a slippery slope of banning if they say Super Heavy's out, but Imperial Knights can stay. Or Lords of War are out, but Ghazzy's allowed.

FoC not being in the rulebook. I'm not worried about this everything is scoring and I could go unbound outside of tournaments if I ask my friends if its alright.

Ork players like myself will complain about the format of the new Codex. However, there were similar formats to this in 6th Ed. I'm still not used to the idea of Wargear Lists. Mostly because I never played any armies that had them. I miss the list at the back of the Codex, but I use Battlescribe and army builder most of the time so I'm not too worried about it.

All in all I like the Ork Codex. High positive.

 Dakkamite wrote:
Feels like our Ork dex was written by a Space Marine player or something.

And the reason the crying will die down after a few weeks is that the people who aren't willing to bend over, spread cheeks and 'adapt' will be gone, and 40k will be down even more players.

Hell, we just had a major tournament here over the past two days - three people showed up.

krodarklorr wrote:
They have Model pictures instead of nicely drawn, fluffy pictures for the unit descriptions.

Not just model pictures, but ENORMOUS ones so they can have jack-all fluff text.

 Boggy Man wrote:
I just bought a Malifaux army for my birthday, I'll be paying for it with lots of 40k ebay auctions. Nuff said?

Haha I hear that

Except I doubt you'd need to sell all that much 40k to buy an army. Here in NZ two starter boxes costs substantially less than a Gorkanaught

That format with the truncated fluff and absent art really, REALLY ticked me off. (Not to mention the gack writing.) Aside from the horribad rules, they could have at least gotten into the spirit of the thing. Lazy, lazy, gits.

I should say; a decent sized resurrectionists army, some Reaper minis for custom sculpting some more, a few 10 thunders and mercenaries, a starter and fleshed out deck for Marvel dice masters, a few JSA and Deadpool Heroclix, a pledge for the Zombicide 3 kickstarter, and my September mortgage payment.
And I'll probably have a few grots left over to sculpt gremlins with. Yeah, I think there's life after 40K

 Ugavine wrote:
Mixed views on the new Codex.

- Loss of Invuns for Nobz
- Nobz cannot be Troops
- loss of Dust Cloud on Bikes
- No Zogswort
- Mek tools got nerfed

+/- KFF. Unecided on the change yet.

+ some point drops
+ formations are solid
+ decent Warlord traits
+ WAAAGH! is back to run & charge.
+ Unit size increase for Buggy's & Kanz.

Biggest gripe has already been mentioned. Layout is terrible. I couldn't even work out what unit went in what slot at first until I noticed the icons.

- Loss of Invuns for Nobz

Nobz could only get an invun save from Cyborkbody which could only be taken if there was a Painboy. With the change to FNP if you include a Painboy in the squad you effectively have a 5+ invun save. Only weakness is destroyer weapons and insta death rule. An invuln save followed up by a FNP is always nice. But if it is strong enough to get through the Invun the FNP is not going to do you much good anyway.

- Nobz cannot be Troops

Supplemental Codex will most likely see the return of Nobz as troops in some form. After all rumor was that Blood Axes were going to be a Supplement allowing Kommandos as Troops.

- loss of Dust Cloud on Bikes

All Bikes have Jink. So the loss of Dust Cloud is not that surprising.

- Mek tools got nerfed

Mek Tools go from a 4+ to a 5+ but lose the crew shaken result on a 1. Not really that big of a hit as Orks are now a fast army to get across the field.

Waagh! Ghazghkull does not turn Nobz into troops.

It does have a unique detachment though in there. The "Great Waaagh! Detachment".
It cannot have any Allied units in the detachment and has a compulsory 1 HQ, 2 Troops, and 1 Elite.
Using the detachment gives you the command benefits of "Biggest an' da Best", "Da Boss iz Watchin'" (I can detail those two if people want them).
"Da Right Boss for da Plan"(if this Detachment is chosen as your Primary Detachment, you can reroll the result when rolling on the Waaagh! Ghazghkull Warlord traits table)
and "Tellyporta Strike"(Before deployment, roll a D6 for each non-Flyer unit in this Detachment adding +1 to the result if the unit's Battlefield Role is Troops. On a result of 6+, that unit has the Deep Strike Special rule).

 Boggy Man wrote:

And I'll probably have a few grots left over to sculpt gremlins with. Yeah, I think there's life after 40K

Are they similar in size? Or does Malifaux not really care about model proportions?

I've got a crapload of Gretchin, a passion for converting, and no army to convert anymore. As cheap as this game is, I'd love to be able to cheap it up even more.

Plus I love the Grot models. And with those crappy old guns they have they're not really too far off of the aesthetic

 Kanluwen wrote:
Waagh! Ghazghkull does not turn Nobz into troops.

It does have a unique detachment though in there. The "Great Waaagh! Detachment".
It cannot have any Allied units in the detachment and has a compulsory 1 HQ, 2 Troops, and 1 Elite.
Using the detachment gives you the command benefits of "Biggest an' da Best", "Da Boss iz Watchin'" (I can detail those two if people want them).
"Da Right Boss for da Plan"(if this Detachment is chosen as your Primary Detachment, you can reroll the result when rolling on the Waaagh! Ghazghkull Warlord traits table)
and "Tellyporta Strike"(Before deployment, roll a D6 for each non-Flyer unit in this Detachment adding +1 to the result if the unit's Battlefield Role is Troops. On a result of 6+, that unit has the Deep Strike Special rule).

If you can, please add the command benefits! Trying to determine whether or not buying into the Ghazzy supplement is worth it at all. People have been saying it "fixes" the regular ork codex, is there anything worth mentioning that you can find?

Why should you buy a $50 supplement to fix a $50 codex?

Anyone that does so is just supporting the practice of cutting content from the main product in order to sell secondary products. It's remarkable how closely GW is following the DLC model from video games. Hopefully enough people say "no thanks!" to make it not worth them doing.

ajax_xaja wrote:


If you can, please add the command benefits! Trying to determine whether or not buying into the Ghazzy supplement is worth it at all. People have been saying it "fixes" the regular ork codex, is there anything worth mentioning that you can find?

First of all, "Biggest an' Da Best" and "Da Boss iz Watchin'" both are always applying whether using the "Great Waagh! Detachment" or anything from the Waagh! Ghazghkull book.
Biggest an' Da Best:

This special rule only applies to a Warlord chosen as part of a Detachment or formation in this book. If your Warlord has this special rule, he must always issue and accept a challenge whenever possible. If you have more than one model in a combat with a special rule to this effect, you can choose which model issues or accepts the challenge. If a Warlord with this special rule kills an enemy character in a challenge, he can re-roll all failed To Wound rolls in close combat for the rest of the game

Bolded the most important part, in my opinion.

Da Boss iz Watchin'

Units with the Mob Rule special rule(see Codex: Orks) that include at least one model from this Detachment or Formation gain a +2 modifier to any rolls on the Mob Rule table. However, should any of these units suffer hits from the Breaking Heads or Squabble results on the Mob Rule table, they will suffer D3+3 Strength 4 AP- hits instead of D6 Strength 4 AP - hits.

I think this one is meant to read "-2 modifier" but I'm still getting my Guard and everything ready to play so I haven't had the most time to give thorough readings of the main rules just yet. Plus I'm a fluffjunkie for the most part.

One thing that I can say is that if you use the Green Tide formation from this book(1x Warlord an 10x units of Boyz, with no size limitations on the Boyz) you can give the Warboss the "Big Bosspole". The Big Bosspole is a 20 point item that makes any unit he joins Fearless.
The Green Tide is a single unit that can range anywhere from 100 Boyz to 300 Boyz(101 to 301 Orks including the Warboss).
So that's 101 to 301 Fearless Orks, who if you roll a 2 or 4 on the Ghazghkull Warlord traits can either be given Crusader(roll of a 2 gives the Warlord and any unit he joins Crusader) or Outflank (4 gives Outflank to him and any unit he joins).


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Yonan wrote:
Anyone that does so is just supporting the practice of cutting content from the main product in order to sell secondary products. It's remarkable how closely GW is following the DLC model from video games. Hopefully enough people say "no thanks!" to make it not worth them doing.

If we're talking about units being cut or something, I would agree. The only thing I can really see that should be in both books is The Green Tide formation and the Big Bosspole as options.

 Dakkamite wrote:

 Boggy Man wrote:

And I'll probably have a few grots left over to sculpt gremlins with. Yeah, I think there's life after 40K

Are they similar in size? Or does Malifaux not really care about model proportions?

I've got a crapload of Gretchin, a passion for converting, and no army to convert anymore. As cheap as this game is, I'd love to be able to cheap it up even more.

Plus I love the Grot models. And with those crappy old guns they have they're not really too far off of the aesthetic

They're pretty comparable. Gremlins are about "half the size of a man" and the models look almost identical in size. Here's a nice gallery;
http://wyrd-games.net/community/gallery/album/83-bayou-gremlins/
I'm new at this myself, but as far as I can tell Malifaux uses bases to determine line of sight. (Someone feel free to correct me on that if I'm wrong.)

 Kanluwen wrote:

ajax_xaja wrote:


If you can, please add the command benefits! Trying to determine whether or not buying into the Ghazzy supplement is worth it at all. People have been saying it "fixes" the regular ork codex, is there anything worth mentioning that you can find?

First of all, "Biggest an' Da Best" and "Da Boss iz Watchin'" both are always applying whether using the "Great Waagh! Detachment" or anything from the Waagh! Ghazghkull book.
Biggest an' Da Best:

This special rule only applies to a Warlord chosen as part of a Detachment or formation in this book. If your Warlord has this special rule, he must always issue and accept a challenge whenever possible. If you have more than one model in a combat with a special rule to this effect, you can choose which model issues or accepts the challenge. If a Warlord with this special rule kills an enemy character in a challenge, he can re-roll all failed To Wound rolls in close combat for the rest of the game

Bolded the most important part, in my opinion.

Da Boss iz Watchin'

Units with the Mob Rule special rule(see Codex: Orks) that include at least one model from this Detachment or Formation gain a +2 modifier to any rolls on the Mob Rule table. However, should any of these units suffer hits from the Breaking Heads or Squabble results on the Mob Rule table, they will suffer D3+3 Strength 4 AP- hits instead of D6 Strength 4 AP - hits.

I think this one is meant to read "-2 modifier" but I'm still getting my Guard and everything ready to play so I haven't had the most time to give thorough readings of the main rules just yet. Plus I'm a fluffjunkie for the most part.

One thing that I can say is that if you use the Green Tide formation from this book(1x Warlord an 10x units of Boyz, with no size limitations on the Boyz) you can give the Warboss the "Big Bosspole". The Big Bosspole is a 20 point item that makes any unit he joins Fearless.
The Green Tide is a single unit that can range anywhere from 100 Boyz to 300 Boyz(101 to 301 Orks including the Warboss).
So that's 101 to 301 Fearless Orks, who if you roll a 2 or 4 on the Ghazghkull Warlord traits can either be given Crusader(roll of a 2 gives the Warlord and any unit he joins Crusader) or Outflank (4 gives Outflank to him and any unit he joins).


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Yonan wrote:
Anyone that does so is just supporting the practice of cutting content from the main product in order to sell secondary products. It's remarkable how closely GW is following the DLC model from video games. Hopefully enough people say "no thanks!" to make it not worth them doing.

If we're talking about units being cut or something, I would agree. The only thing I can really see that should be in both books is The Green Tide formation and the Big Bosspole as options.

Give the green tide formation a painboy too, and i can see that being fun to try to kill

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Yonan wrote:
Anyone that does so is just supporting the practice of cutting content from the main product in order to sell secondary products. It's remarkable how closely GW is following the DLC model from video games. Hopefully enough people say "no thanks!" to make it not worth them doing.

If we're talking about units being cut or something, I would agree. The only thing I can really see that should be in both books is The Green Tide formation and the Big Bosspole as options.

Units like the looted wagon released as day one DLC in white dwarf? I'm not sure on the content of the second ork book that's coming, but if it's anything like Crimson Slaughter then the additional rules could easily have been included in the main codex. Not to mention things like dataslates that add 3 lines of new rules for $18.

I played the new book over the weekend. It was great and i had a lot of fun with it. But in the spirit of this thread Ill just say WHHHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

 Yonan wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Yonan wrote:
Anyone that does so is just supporting the practice of cutting content from the main product in order to sell secondary products. It's remarkable how closely GW is following the DLC model from video games. Hopefully enough people say "no thanks!" to make it not worth them doing.

If we're talking about units being cut or something, I would agree. The only thing I can really see that should be in both books is The Green Tide formation and the Big Bosspole as options.

Units like the looted wagon released as day one DLC in white dwarf? I'm not sure on the content of the second ork book that's coming, but if it's anything like Crimson Slaughter then the additional rules could easily have been included in the main codex. Not to mention things like dataslates that add 3 lines of new rules for $18.

Waagh! Ghazghkull has no units that were cut. There are new Warlord traits, new missions, new "Orkimedes" items for characters(it's required you select from that list if you want to field any characters as part of that detachment/codex), and formations in there which are exclusive to that book.

I'm still not sure how to feel about the Looted Wagon in White Dwarf. On the one hand it is neat to see rules in White Dwarf, but it is irksome to see a unit that could have been in the book not be put in there.
What it comes down to though in my opinion, the Looted Wagon is just a "Battlewagon Lite" and is an option for someone who wants a more cost-effective Battlewagon for smaller points games.

 Kanluwen wrote:
I'm still not sure how to feel about the Looted Wagon in White Dwarf. On the one hand it is neat to see rules in White Dwarf, but it is irksome to see a unit that could have been in the book not be put in there.

Yeah that's exactly it. By all means create new rules for a white dwarf release a year after a codex was released, perhaps to fix some glaring issue brought to light (such as lack of anti air last edition), a new mission, a new unit that is later rolled into the next codex for that army and so on. But to cut something from the previous codex - which the looted wagon was in - to release at the same time as the new codex is just not acceptable. It's the definition of day one dlc - already created content that was cut from the full release to sell at additional cost at the same time as the product is released.

Dragonzord wrote:

Give the green tide formation a painboy too, and i can see that being fun to try to kill

If you really wanted something nasty...

Give the Warboss the Choppa of Da Ragnarork(Two handed Choppa with "Grand Destiny" which for any Assault phase where the bearer inflicts one or more casualties the weapon's strength is increased by 1 and its AP value is lowered by 1. These effects are cumulative and last for the rest of the battle but cannot be made better than Strength +6 and AP1. You start off at S+2 and AP5.), the Big Bosspole(the unit becomes Fearless), Da Supa-Cybork (confers Feel No Pain 5+, Eternal Warrior, and Relentless on the Warboss), Mega Armor, and an Attack Squig.

Instead of a standard Pain Boy, put Mad Dok Grotsnik in there(the whole unit gains Fearless and Rampage). Put a Big Mek in there with Mega Armour, the "Mega Force Field"(models within 6" gain a 4+ invulnerable save against shooting instead of 5+) from the Ghazghkull book. Give him the Kill-Dakka from the book as well, where you roll a D6 at the start of the game for the weapon. It can be a Heavy Shoota, a Burny Shoota, a Shooty Shoota, a Zappy Shoota, a Blasty Shoota, or a Bubbly Shoota. Give the Big Mek 3x Ammo Runts for the rerolls.

Then just for a lark, give all 100 to 300 Boyz 'Eavy Armor at 4 points per model.

For the bare minimum sized 100 Ork force, you're looking at 1800 points.
For 103 Rampaging, Feel No Pain, Fearless Orks.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Yonan wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
I'm still not sure how to feel about the Looted Wagon in White Dwarf. On the one hand it is neat to see rules in White Dwarf, but it is irksome to see a unit that could have been in the book not be put in there.

Yeah that's exactly it. By all means create new rules for a white dwarf release a year after a codex was released, perhaps to fix some glaring issue brought to light (such as lack of anti air last edition), a new mission, a new unit that is later rolled into the next codex for that army and so on. But to cut something from the previous codex - which the looted wagon was in - to release at the same time as the new codex is just not acceptable. It's the definition of day one dlc - already created content that was cut from the full release to sell at additional cost at the same time as the product is released.

I'm not really familiar as to why it's such a big deal that Looted Wagons were cut but Battlewagons weren't?
Could you please elaborate for someone who's not exceedingly familiar with Orkiness?

 Kanluwen wrote:

Dragonzord wrote:

Give the green tide formation a painboy too, and i can see that being fun to try to kill

If you really wanted something nasty...

Give the Warboss the Choppa of Da Ragnarork(Two handed Choppa with "Grand Destiny" which for any Assault phase where the bearer inflicts one or more casualties the weapon's strength is increased by 1 and its AP value is lowered by 1. These effects are cumulative and last for the rest of the battle but cannot be made better than Strength +6 and AP1. You start off at S+2 and AP5.), the Big Bosspole(the unit becomes Fearless), Da Supa-Cybork (confers Feel No Pain 5+, Eternal Warrior, and Relentless on the Warboss), Mega Armor, and an Attack Squig.

Instead of a standard Pain Boy, put Mad Dok Grotsnik in there(the whole unit gains Fearless and Rampage). Put a Big Mek in there with Mega Armour, the "Mega Force Field"(models within 6" gain a 4+ invulnerable save against shooting instead of 5+) from the Ghazghkull book. Give him the Kill-Dakka from the book as well, where you roll a D6 at the start of the game for the weapon. It can be a Heavy Shoota, a Burny Shoota, a Shooty Shoota, a Zappy Shoota, a Blasty Shoota, or a Bubbly Shoota. Give the Big Mek 3x Ammo Runts for the rerolls.

Then just for a lark, give all 100 to 300 Boyz 'Eavy Armor at 4 points per model.

For the bare minimum sized 100 Ork force, you're looking at 1800 points.
For 103 Rampaging, Feel No Pain, Fearless Orks.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Yonan wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
I'm still not sure how to feel about the Looted Wagon in White Dwarf. On the one hand it is neat to see rules in White Dwarf, but it is irksome to see a unit that could have been in the book not be put in there.

Yeah that's exactly it. By all means create new rules for a white dwarf release a year after a codex was released, perhaps to fix some glaring issue brought to light (such as lack of anti air last edition), a new mission, a new unit that is later rolled into the next codex for that army and so on. But to cut something from the previous codex - which the looted wagon was in - to release at the same time as the new codex is just not acceptable. It's the definition of day one dlc - already created content that was cut from the full release to sell at additional cost at the same time as the product is released.

I'm not really familiar as to why it's such a big deal that Looted Wagons were cut but Battlewagons weren't?
Could you please elaborate for someone who's not exceedingly familiar with Orkiness?

Holy crap...I really wanna do that list O.O If only there were room for the Naught! I might replace the Mek and the Ard Armor for the Naught with KFF and slap him in the middle with the entire unit surrounding him. Fire off weapon vollies while my durable boys rush up the field.

Also, I think people are peeved because there was no real reason to remove the Looted Wagon. Its such a mediocre unit, but its beloved by many Ork players due to its fluff and silliness. But it was removed and slapped into WD for no real reason other than...because?

 Kanluwen wrote:

If you really wanted something nasty...

You only get one item from the Relics list right? Pretty certain you can only take a single choice from the Choppa, the Bosspole or the Cybork. Not certain that it makes your whole idea unworkable but it's something to consider.

Mozzamanx wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

If you really wanted something nasty...

You only get one item from the Relics list right? Pretty certain you can only take a single choice from the Choppa, the Bosspole or the Cybork. Not certain that it makes your whole idea unworkable but it's something to consider.

That's entirely possible. I didn't see anything listed about "You can only take one from the list" though.

I might be the only positive guy in here but i like the new codex. It didn't bring anything broken. If EVERY following GW codex is gona be like that than it's gona be the best thing gw could have done.

But as for now...yep, don't see how my greentide can beat anything meaningful. I mean ig infantry beats orks in mellee with overwatch + priest and higher ini. And they're fearless armywide.

All in all, i feel that ork power level hasn't changed. Hordes still can't do a thing. BW spam is still not bad. We're still very vulnerable to sniping out and challenges.

Truckboyz weren't really good in 6 ed and they're not good now - nothing has changed here.

Grots were overpriced and quite useless other than a 5+ cover or sitting on a point behind a rock - they're still overpriced and useless other than cover but are not needed as backpoint holders now. Well, i guess they're a must for a footslogging horde now since no more kff for footslogas. And the enemy will have to waste a turn of shooting grots or we're gona have 5+ and 5+++. Yep, everything ignores cover or fires from such angles that they don't care bout grots but...noone told you u're gona have a strong horde army. Not in 6.5.

If you want to be competitive - go for BW spam with artillery/lootas (nothing has changed here). Now you have much better bikers and actually good buggies.

Or you could have a bikerstar with a painboss + warboss with a lucky stix tanking wounds in front with his 3+ rerollable cover or 4+ rerollable armor AND 5+ rerollable fnp. Rerolls are limited but he's quite durable. Though, they'll die to tau. Horribly. Use solid BLOS terrain in appropriate ammounts and you're gona be good.

See, nothing has really changed. We still can't compete with cheeze but are on par with anything else.

So in your opinion you just paid $50.00 for what exactly?

 Kanluwen wrote:

Mozzamanx wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

If you really wanted something nasty...

You only get one item from the Relics list right? Pretty certain you can only take a single choice from the Choppa, the Bosspole or the Cybork. Not certain that it makes your whole idea unworkable but it's something to consider.

That's entirely possible. I didn't see anything listed about "You can only take one from the list" though.

There isn't, unlike the main codex

Yonan- I know you love this day one DLC concept, but enough. It was cut as it didn't gave a model, to be consistent. The outcry over this, known two weeks before the WD looted wagon knowledge leaked, got GW to put it in the WD. Yes, it would gave been preferable on the website.

At least try to be balanced, rather than ignoring anything conflicting your world view of GW as the mad ttest company ever.

Melevolence wrote:

Also, I think people are peeved because there was no real reason to remove the Looted Wagon. Its such a mediocre unit, but its beloved by many Ork players due to its fluff and silliness. But it was removed and slapped into WD for no real reason other than...because?

the same reason why they dropped whazdakka... everything that didnt have a dedicated GW model which you could buy was taken from the codex.

by the way... since we can get a "free" mek for every HQ, how about an extra 45point claw (s6/7 ap2 saw) for our boy-squads?

nosferatu1001 wrote:
Yonan- I know you love this day one DLC concept, but enough. It was cut as it didn't gave a model, to be consistent. The outcry over this, known two weeks before the WD looted wagon knowledge leaked, got GW to put it in the WD. Yes, it would gave been preferable on the website.

Yes, it should have been on the website if they were doing this for the players and had a good reason to cut it from the codex - that's the problem. it *wasn't* on the website. It was charged extra for, following a trend of GW charging more for less. If you want me to think less poorly of GW, you're going to have to convince them to stop doing such ridiculous things. Then I'll happily sing their praises.

 Yonan wrote:

nosferatu1001 wrote:
Yonan- I know you love this day one DLC concept, but enough. It was cut as it didn't gave a model, to be consistent. The outcry over this, known two weeks before the WD looted wagon knowledge leaked, got GW to put it in the WD. Yes, it would gave been preferable on the website.

Yes, it should have been on the website if they were doing this for the players and had a good reason to cut it from the codex - that's the problem. it *wasn't* on the website. It was charged extra for, following a trend of GW charging more for less. If you want me to think less poorly of GW, you're going to have to convince them to stop doing such ridiculous things. Then I'll happily sing their praises.

GW did it for a laugh. Terrible, i know.

Honestly, White Dwarf is available for the cost of a pot of paint. If you think the price of a pot of paint for the option is a ripoff, PM me and I'll send you a PDF.

I think the issue is less the cost and more the principle and precedent.

My opinions on the codex have been stated many times. I play tyranids and I'd honestly place the ork codex as worse if only for all the opportunities GW had, but instead decided to completely overlook. Tankbustas are the only unit that can be described as "completely and appropriately buffed" (as long we're willing to overlook the Mob Rule changes), which is awesome for Tankbustas! Too bad for the rest of the Codex though. Still, a bad codex didn't stop me from spending time last night working on my warbuggies.

 Yonan wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Yonan wrote:
Anyone that does so is just supporting the practice of cutting content from the main product in order to sell secondary products. It's remarkable how closely GW is following the DLC model from video games. Hopefully enough people say "no thanks!" to make it not worth them doing.

If we're talking about units being cut or something, I would agree. The only thing I can really see that should be in both books is The Green Tide formation and the Big Bosspole as options.

Units like the looted wagon released as day one DLC in white dwarf? I'm not sure on the content of the second ork book that's coming, but if it's anything like Crimson Slaughter then the additional rules could easily have been included in the main codex. Not to mention things like dataslates that add 3 lines of new rules for $18.

Is it really Day 1 DLC when those rules were released before the codex was?

Here's a good one. They make Grotsnik nearly mandatory and don't have him for sale.

Same with a dozen other models like Kommandos.

Grotsnik, Kommandos/Tankbustas, and Snikrot have only been out of stock for the past week.

Try Wood Elves where the plastic Core kits are going out of stock for lengthy periods of time, almost all of the Hero/Lord options have been out of stock for lengthy periods of time, and where Waywatchers are basically a race to see who can order them first.

 Hivefleet Oblivion wrote:
Honestly, White Dwarf is available for the cost of a pot of paint. If you think the price of a pot of paint for the option is a ripoff, PM me and I'll send you a PDF.

I already have my "copy". It's not the price, it's the principle - and if you let them do it, they'll keep doing it.

 Yonan wrote:

 Hivefleet Oblivion wrote:
Honestly, White Dwarf is available for the cost of a pot of paint. If you think the price of a pot of paint for the option is a ripoff, PM me and I'll send you a PDF.

I already have my "copy". It's not the price, it's the principle - and if you let them do it, they'll keep doing it.

And how do you propose we stop them? If we don't get the rules we're shooting ourselves in the foot and don't have them to use but if we do buy the rules we encourage them further (not that GW ever knows why we don't buy things making boycotts worthless unless you picket Nottingham to make your point).

Mozzamanx wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

If you really wanted something nasty...

You only get one item from the Relics list right? Pretty certain you can only take a single choice from the Choppa, the Bosspole or the Cybork. Not certain that it makes your whole idea unworkable but it's something to consider.

Okay the wording is this for both the supplement and the main book:

Only one of each of the following Kustom Gubbinz can be chosen per army--there is only one of each of these items in the entire galaxy!

So you can have more than one item from the Relics list, but you just cannot have doubles of an item.

GW notices drops in profit, it's *all* they notice. Just don't buy it - you can still play easily enough. I know it's hard for gamers, but if you want the hobby you love to improve, you have to discourage bad practice from the companies that service you. They'll either mend their ways or die off.

This time it's $4.00.
Next time...?

I'm not really sure that I would say rules for Looted Wagons (which really just seem to be cheaper versions of Battlewagons) in White Dwarf is a "bad practice".

It's not like it invalidates you using your old Looted Wagons as Battlewagons with the appropriate upgrades now, right?

 Yonan wrote:
GW notices drops in profit, it's *all* they notice. Just don't buy it - you can still play easily enough. I know it's hard for gamers, but if you want the hobby you love to improve, you have to discourage bad practice from the companies that service you. They'll either mend their ways or die off.

The problem is, because they can't see why we're not buying things, they can't really know what's causing profits to drop off. They may just assume the WD is failing as a magazine again and do yet another reboot on it.

Though if this Kodex launch doesn't bring a profit (which, sadly, it will) they might actually correlate something properly.

Anvildude wrote:
Though if this Kodex launch doesn't bring a profit (which, sadly, it will) they might actually correlate something properly.

Yeah...they might correlate that Orks don't sell.

 Kanluwen wrote:
I'm not really sure that I would say rules for Looted Wagons (which really just seem to be cheaper versions of Battlewagons) in White Dwarf is a "bad practice".

It's not like it invalidates you using your old Looted Wagons as Battlewagons with the appropriate upgrades now, right?

Yes and no. Battlewagons having an official model now means that anyone's looted wagons would need to have a comprable profile. I can safely say that my looted Devilfish (whenever I get around to finishing it) will not have a battlewagon's profile.

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 Yonan wrote:
GW notices drops in profit, it's *all* they notice. Just don't buy it - you can still play easily enough. I know it's hard for gamers, but if you want the hobby you love to improve, you have to discourage bad practice from the companies that service you. They'll either mend their ways or die off.

The problem is, because they can't see why we're not buying things, they can't really know what's causing profits to drop off. They may just assume the WD is failing as a magazine again and do yet another reboot on it.

I'd be more then happy to tell them if they didn't cut all communication off and have automated messages when you do email them. Gamers are easy to cultivate, just stop pissing them off (you'll always do this regardless but when its huge chunks of your customer base consistently you have to question what you're doing). Stop attacking people and stop trying to groom your customers into a bunch of fething goob losers by force feeding bad game mechanics.

A few people Ive talked to agree that the Day One DLC argument doesn't have a lot of weight. For one it makes sense to have it separate if GW doesn't want model-less units in their Codexes. Second, They're just glad they still have access to it even though they never fielded them in 6th. And a buck or two to get a new unit isn't that cad when your just using spare parts you have lying around to do a Kitbash unit.

Nothing you just said stops it from being day one dlc. If it was released free it wouldn't be "day one dlc". It's existing content, removed from the product to be sold separately at launch - that's the definition of day one dlc.

Exactly, their day one DLC was the ghazskull book that is basically a few formations that make the ork dex better.

Here's how you fight GW

1) Have an online group via whatever and share everything there. Thanks to dakka and other places many groups have all the WD rules in picture form archived.

2) Group buy your books via digital or club.

Costs drop to pocket change, you get to play the game you love and you give GW the finger.

 Yonan wrote:
Nothing you just said stops it from being day one dlc. If it was released free it wouldn't be "day one dlc". It's existing content, removed from the product to be sold separately at launch - that's the definition of day one dlc.

Free DLC is still DLC. So yeah, it'd still be "DLC". You can even argue that because the WD with rules in it doesn't cost more than normal that it's already "free" (with purchase of something some people buy every week anyways) because no additional cost is being put on the WD.

 Yonan wrote:
Nothing you just said stops it from being day one dlc. If it was released free it wouldn't be "day one dlc". It's existing content, removed from the product to be sold separately at launch - that's the definition of day one dlc.

No, that is an unsupported supposition on your part, with significant enough evidence casting doubt on it that you conveniently ignore in every post.
It was cut from the codex as it doesn't have a model. Not in order to be sold at launch. There is public enough assurance on that. GW do enough bad things that making up gak isn't needed.

Just tired of the old GW "1 day I can play my army and the next I can't play it as it has been built for the last 5+ years" thing. I had 2 dreads and 2 units of kans thanks to having a Big Mek in the HQ. Not anymore. Same with Meganobz as an elites choice and regular nobz as a troop choice thanks to the warboss. Yeah unbound would still let it happen, but now I have to tactically shoot my army in the foot just to play the army that was perfectly legal and by the book 3 days ago.

Add in that I will not be playing 7th and that takes unbound off the table as well.

Skriker

 Ravenous D wrote:
Exactly, their day one DLC was the ghazskull book that is basically a few formations that make the ork dex better.

Here's how you fight GW

1) Have an online group via whatever and share everything there. Thanks to dakka and other places many groups have all the WD rules in picture form archived.

2) Group buy your books via digital or club.

Costs drop to pocket change, you get to play the game you love and you give GW the finger.

I actually would recommend #3:

3) With said group try a non-GW game.

 Skriker wrote:
Just tired of the old GW "1 day I can play my army and the next I can't play it as it has been built for the last 5+ years" thing. I had 2 dreads and 2 units of kans thanks to having a Big Mek in the HQ. Not anymore. Same with Meganobz as an elites choice and regular nobz as a troop choice thanks to the warboss. Yeah unbound would still let it happen, but now I have to tactically shoot my army in the foot just to play the army that was perfectly legal and by the book 3 days ago.

Add in that I will not be playing 7th and that takes unbound off the table as well.

Skriker

Then don't play the new dex either.

Done. It's not like GW forces you to buy it.

Remember when DLC was called Expansion pack, and People actually enjoyed it?

Starcraft had the Broodlord expansion pack that added a lot more content and was pretty awesome.

That's how I personally feel about Waaagh! Ghaz supplement. This stuff didn't have to be in the main codex. I normally don't like Ghazzy's fluff. But hey it gets me 60+ pages of more Ork fluff and some fun missions.

But hey I wasn't playing when GW was giving stuff for free.

The Looted Wagon? I never really liked them before. Honestly they would explode on turn one. AV 11 and open topped did not help it any. Unlike the Doom or Marbo(sp) the Ork codex doesn't really suffer from it's loss.

Would you rather have it disappear like the Zogwart or Wazzdakka?

I'm not sure why people think they added in the rules for the looted wagon because they were concerned about fan backlash.
They didn't seem concerned about Nid backlash when they dropped the sporepods and I haven't seen those added in a WD, even months after release.
They didn't seem concerned when they released the chariot with a flamer it couldn't fire and waited an entire edition to fix as opposed to a simple FAQ.
I mean I would honestly find it surprising out of all the things complained about, that is what they listened to.
Though it does fit in with the 7th "leaks" we saw. Rumor was released one day, the next there was a video up explaining how the actual rule worked.

 slowthar wrote:


3) With said group try a non-GW game.

Nobody likes a quitter.

Plus people still love 40k, they just hate GW and that relationship was going fine until GW started shoving its way into the core mechanics to try and sleeze out some more money. Now we have a bunch of dreadfleet-esq random gak smeared all over the game, and the only way to make it work is take it away from GW.

 Savageconvoy wrote:
I'm not sure why people think they added in the rules for the looted wagon because they were concerned about fan backlash.
They didn't seem concerned about Nid backlash when they dropped the sporepods and I haven't seen those added in a WD, even months after release.
They didn't seem concerned when they released the chariot with a flamer it couldn't fire and waited an entire edition to fix as opposed to a simple FAQ.
I mean I would honestly find it surprising out of all the things complained about, that is what they listened to.
Though it does fit in with the 7th "leaks" we saw. Rumor was released one day, the next there was a video up explaining how the actual rule worked.

Considering a #1 complaint from fans in general(across every new codex) was the deletion of units it's not too surprising. If someone fought to get it in there he or she will probably be less inclined after all the internet hate.


I'm enjoying the internet hate right now. A couple of people I know are selling off their ork armies without playing the new edition's version at all. Knee jerk reactions like those on this and other forums are the reason I don't have to pay retail.

DontEatRawHagis wrote:

 Savageconvoy wrote:
I'm not sure why people think they added in the rules for the looted wagon because they were concerned about fan backlash.
They didn't seem concerned about Nid backlash when they dropped the sporepods and I haven't seen those added in a WD, even months after release.
They didn't seem concerned when they released the chariot with a flamer it couldn't fire and waited an entire edition to fix as opposed to a simple FAQ.
I mean I would honestly find it surprising out of all the things complained about, that is what they listened to.
Though it does fit in with the 7th "leaks" we saw. Rumor was released one day, the next there was a video up explaining how the actual rule worked.

Considering a #1 complaint from fans in general(across every new codex) was the deletion of units it's not too surprising. If someone fought to get it in there he or she will probably be less inclined after all the internet hate.


I'm enjoying the internet hate right now. A couple of people I know are selling off their ork armies without playing the new edition's version at all. Knee jerk reactions like those on this and other forums are the reason I don't have to pay retail.

How did GW find out about fan reaction and (assuming somehow they did) why haven't they listened to it before?

nosferatu1001 wrote:

 Yonan wrote:
Nothing you just said stops it from being day one dlc. If it was released free it wouldn't be "day one dlc". It's existing content, removed from the product to be sold separately at launch - that's the definition of day one dlc.

No, that is an unsupported supposition on your part, with significant enough evidence casting doubt on it that you conveniently ignore in every post.
It was cut from the codex as it doesn't have a model. Not in order to be sold at launch. There is public enough assurance on that. GW do enough bad things that making up gak isn't needed.

Significant enough evidence being your 'friends'.

 MWHistorian wrote:

How did GW find out about fan reaction and (assuming somehow they did) why haven't they listened to it before?

I feel like this question is be asked from the perspective of GW living on top of Mt Olympus with no understanding of mortal men. They're just a company like Wizards of the Coast or Wyrd. Only difference is that they have decided to be more introverted towards their community. Hiding their employees behind NDAs and not allowing anyone inside the company to talk to the media aside from their own magazine.

Wyrd have open Playtests. GW keeps their business practices secret. I can tell you with 100% confidence if Wyrd, Mantic, Privateer Press, and even Wizards of the Coast are listening to podcasts and paying attention to forums. Then GW is definitely.

I remember a podcast recently mentioning that they could only get the Black Library Authors who were not in house due to GW's employee NDAs.

Savageconvoy wrote:I'm not sure why people think they added in the rules for the looted wagon because they were concerned about fan backlash.
They didn't seem concerned about Nid backlash when they dropped the sporepods and I haven't seen those added in a WD, even months after release.
They didn't seem concerned when they released the chariot with a flamer it couldn't fire and waited an entire edition to fix as opposed to a simple FAQ.
I mean I would honestly find it surprising out of all the things complained about, that is what they listened to.
Though it does fit in with the 7th "leaks" we saw. Rumor was released one day, the next there was a video up explaining how the actual rule worked.

Spore pods have never been made from essentially 100% GW parts! unlike looted wagons. And ork players are more vocal AND more numerous than nid players. Two differences

ZebioLizard2 wrote:

nosferatu1001 wrote:

 Yonan wrote:
Nothing you just said stops it from being day one dlc. If it was released free it wouldn't be "day one dlc". It's existing content, removed from the product to be sold separately at launch - that's the definition of day one dlc.

No, that is an unsupported supposition on your part, with significant enough evidence casting doubt on it that you conveniently ignore in every post.
It was cut from the codex as it doesn't have a model. Not in order to be sold at launch. There is public enough assurance on that. GW do enough bad things that making up gak isn't needed.

Significant enough evidence being your 'friends'.

Nope, the leak two weeks before the WD leak, the layout, lack of promised article that the looted wagon replaced. That's assurance, not evidence, and I have not claimed my friends as evidence for others, as I'm more precise than you seem to manage. Shocking I know.

Believe whatever close minded gak you like, just don't claim it as truth, or pretend he other view doesn't exist.

The Ork Codex is fine. Keeping old Cyborks and making Killa Kans useable would have been nice, but our new artillery is great, most of the updated rules are good, and most importantly Orks can finally make it to assault. With mini-fleet every turn and the ability to run+charge, they've brought Choppa Boys and Stormboys and the like back from the dead.

Also, Plastic Meganobz!

Can we deal with cheese lists and any army capable of throwing out buffs like candy? Not easily, but those armies are generally too powerful for their own good anyways, and they're not insurmountible. I'm glad we didn't get a full on kneecap of a codex, with general improvements, and that we also didn't become the OP army of the century.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Just for the sake of expounding: Ork Players have been asking and pleading for Plastic Meganobz for as long as I can remember, but now that we have them everyone is complaining about other things and ignoribg what they've been asking for for years.

The book is underwhelming in ever sense.

The fluff content of the actual codex is recycled, spartan, and uninspired. Nothing about the codex fluff is better, or more interesting than the 2008 release.

Mechanically, it is ALSO recycled, spartan, and uninspired.
It will limp along as a lower mid-tier, beer and pretzels army for another six or seven years with it's die hard fans, but it isn't going to engender any excitement for the majority of them.
Nothing in the mechanics of this book is better, or more interesting than the 2008 release.

Having had another read and letting some stuff sink in I think I'm going to enjoy this Codex.

I mentioned the loss of Dust Cloud off Bikes, but I'd totally forgotten about Jink. So that's not too bad.

Big Mek can take KFF or SAG AND a Warbike ! Loving that. Bike is Relentless, so 12" move with SAG.

Koptas are cheaper with Rokkits.

Yeah, I think I do like this Codex after all

nosferatu1001 wrote:

Spore pods have never been made from essentially 100% GW parts! unlike looted wagons. And ork players are more vocal AND more numerous than nid players. Two differences

If there was no model, then how are they sure people are using 100% GW parts? There's a drop pod model, why can't Nid players just glue on nid bitz? Why does it even matter if it's a pile of glued together spare bits or a third party model? It's not like GW sees profit in either case. Also I don't see how Ork players were more vocal. I saw it divided that some were upset and others didn't care because there was never a reason to use them. I'm not sure how these broke down into percentages of players, but it's not like it's justified in one case and not the other based on popularity especially since the new releases are meant to attract in new players and you can't expect new players to be eager to hop in when the older players are noticeably upset about the removal of units.

I LOVE this codex now...

I got all the flyer rules in it, bonus, GW actually gave me something for FREE that i used to have to pay for.

same with stompa rules, bonus!

the army got all the rules it needed,

CC buffed, AA buffed, anti MC buffed, anti flying MC buffed, ranged anti tank buffed, pts cost on some of the more awesome units came down, (note orks have the best AA in game now against both flyers and FMC's)

got some characters moved out of unit upgrades into HQ slots, and they have some awesome warlord traits that synergise with the army.

lots of different competitive builds, my green tide, speed freak, MANZ missle brigade, and my mixed lists all are now compettive where as before all were "meh"


the layout is *different* then the other books, but compared my new IG, newish GK, and old as feth ork codex, Id say this new ork dex is only slightly less well laid out then the new guard codex, but miles ahead of how they used to do it.

complaining about art in a rules book... well, I actually like the pics of the models, plenty of ART art in other places in the codex.

most of the complainers are complaining that things *CHANGED* not that its worse... but they see any change as *worse*

losing cybork is not a huge deal, nor is losing zags special deal... seriously... someone said now storm boys will never be used... after they went down in pts by 30%, and now benifit from waggh and ere we go....

we have TWO unqiue detachments in this codex, with 4HQ's being very possible... and HOW on possible on every ork is the stuff dreams are made of.

painboys are awesome,

zag also grants you rerolls to LD and pinning...hes awesome, losing his stupid charge from DS that hardly ever worked, killed dudes, and was limited to 20 boy squads when they are now 30 is a bit of a silly things to exclaim "NO ONE WILL TAKE STORMBOYS" over...

"A new bottom tier codex with expensive models you have to buy a lot of!" isn't a strong selling point for new players either.

The codex isn't fun. There are some lists I think will work it's just the army does not feel like orks.

I've been trying several different list so far and what seems to work really well is 'eavy armor.
I gave the books formation a try with all boyz inside Trukk's and sporting 'eavy armor.
The list worked amazing in three separate games.
Now obviously you need to round it out a bit but it did work... However it seems very un-Orky.

 Ravenous D wrote:

 slowthar wrote:


3) With said group try a non-GW game.

Nobody likes a quitter.

Plus people still love 40k, they just hate GW and that relationship was going fine until GW started shoving its way into the core mechanics to try and sleeze out some more money. Now we have a bunch of dreadfleet-esq random gak smeared all over the game, and the only way to make it work is take it away from GW.

well, to be fair, GW might have to do less profit "squeesing" if they were not getting jackhammered by people D/L pdfs of the rules for free, and getting re casts .

just look at HMV and blockbuster to see what happens to companies when everyone just starts getting their products for free, or from forgers.


seriosuly... the biggest gripe I heard since 3rd ed was "GW doesnt do stuff fast enough, nothing new for ages" now they roll stuff out at a better pace, and people rage about having to pay for it... or that its too fast...

heck... even looking at the new MANz.. sure I could buy kromlech ones at 3 for 60$ + shipping instead of 3 for 70$ for the GW manz...

so GW spent all the money on making a game, for a 3rd party to make money, and is only 10$ cheaper for that 3rd party, when they do 0 of the extra work that GW has to do.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

Gleath wrote:
The codex isn't fun. There are some lists I think will work it's just the army does not feel like orks.

feels like orks to me... much MORE then the last codex did...

I feel that making orks deadly in CC (more in the ability to actually get everything into CC) in this edition is far more orky then the shooty spam lootas that seemed to be the most common list last edition

 easysauce wrote:

 Ravenous D wrote:

 slowthar wrote:


3) With said group try a non-GW game.

Nobody likes a quitter.

Plus people still love 40k, they just hate GW and that relationship was going fine until GW started shoving its way into the core mechanics to try and sleeze out some more money. Now we have a bunch of dreadfleet-esq random gak smeared all over the game, and the only way to make it work is take it away from GW.

well, to be fair, GW might have to do less profit "squeesing" if they were not getting jackhammered by people D/L pdfs of the rules for free, and getting re casts .

just look at HMV and blockbuster to see what happens to companies when everyone just starts getting their products for free, or from forgers.


seriosuly... the biggest gripe I heard since 3rd ed was "GW doesnt do stuff fast enough, nothing new for ages" now they roll stuff out at a better pace, and people rage about having to pay for it... or that its too fast...

heck... even looking at the new MANz.. sure I could buy kromlech ones at 3 for 60$ + shipping instead of 3 for 70$ for the GW manz...

so GW spent all the money on making a game, for a 3rd party to make money, and is only 10$ cheaper for that 3rd party, when they do 0 of the extra work that GW has to do.

Netflix and Redbox put Blockbuster out of business. Cheaper, more friendly to use competition.

Savage - so GW don't make money when people buy rhinos to convert to wagons? Or chimera, or russ...etc.

They were VERY vocal. Exceptionally so. Enough that GW noticed.

The codex isn't bottom tier. Assault becomes very viable in this book, with active assists to doing it, unlike the previous dexes in sixth.

The people clamoring for an accelerated release schedule were not expecting to see a marked drop in content quality offset by a massive increase in cost. GW has massively increased the production quality of their books. I won't dispute that. They're putting out big, shiny, pretty hardcover books. Those books still spend far too much page count on recycled art and recycled pictures of miniatures.

Just got the 'Dex. Initial impressions: GW wants you to play Unbound. There is a distinct lack of focus on Force Organization, backed up with the "weird" layout of the book. There is the fluff at the beginning, unit descriptions in the middle, and rules in the end. The unit descriptions are a bit bizarre though- using actual model pictures instead of artwork... hmmm. Not sure I like that. Seeing artwork allows you to imagine what your Warboss will be like. Seeing the actual model kind of "taints" that vision for a lack of a better word.

I didn't get too much into the rules, but Mob Rule seems overly harsh. You've already lost models forcing you to make a Morale or Pinning test, and if you fail, you can take more casualties? Hmmm. The other thing that leaped out at me- Burnas. They have two profiles, a shooting and close combat profile, and a rule that says they can't use both profiles in the same turn. So does that mean if I use them as a close combat weapon on my turn, if I get charged on the following turn, I can't overwatch with them? Or if I Overwatch with them in my turn, I can't use them as a close combat weapon? Again, that seems very harsh when there are other examples of weapons that do not have this limitation.

The Ork codex struck me as a 'quirky' and 'fun' codex, with just little things that could change the way your army plays, but in a minor way that added spice to an otherwise bland horde army. Things like Red Paint Job, or the old lost a fight, roll to see if we fight each other chart, the names of all the weapons and abilities- all pointed at an army that didn't take itself too seriously. This codex strikes me as a serious codex. The spice has been removed and seemingly replaced with something that has bite to it. It's a big shift from the last codex, and a lot of prior players are having issues adapting to the new play style. No biggie, it's human nature. We don't like change, we resist change, and when something doesn't meet our expectations of what it should be, we get upset.

As a side note, this codex strikes me as a rush job. There is barely any artwork in the book at all, and most of it is not new artwork. There are some nice pieces in there, but all vector graphics thrown together. The map on pg. 11 seems woefully incomplete. For example, there is Baal, (Blood Angels) on the map, but then it shows Macragge, The Realm of Ultramar in a bigger font. Look over at Fenris, and it says in the smallest font on the map, Fenris. Nothing else, like Home of the Space Wolves, or something. Just not a good map at all. The lack of artwork for the unit entries is a huge indicator. Artwork takes a long time to produce. You have to come up with a rough idea for it, find an artist, do some proofs, come up with a final piece, etc. etc. It usually takes 3-4 months for artwork to get into a book. Sometimes, it's the piece that takes the longest to get in. GW also likes to use the same artist throughout an entire book for cohesion and tieing it all together. This book lacks that in spades. What little artwork is present is a mishmash of styles and theme. Also, by using the actual models themselves it would actually make it easier for the digital publication- which I don't have, but I bet in the digital codex, if you click on the unit entry picture, it takes you to a bigger, blown up and possible 360 view of the model, right? Here is what I think- tin foil hat time! GW needed to get this book out in a hurry. They recycled a lot of art and skipped most of it during layout instead choosing to use pictures of studio models to speed up development. They tweaked a lot of stuff, but almost totally ignored an entirely new phase of the game- the Psychic Phase. Yeah, the Weirdboy is still in there, and they have a powers chart, but I just expected more. I dunno. Something to do with the Waagh! would have been awesome- like during a Waagh, all Orks are counted as having Adamtium Will or something. The layout looks nice, but is very bland. What I mean is, take a look at the Space Marines codex. There are quotes everywhere, vector graphics, they even have pages of all the various Space Marine Chapters with a brief description of them. There are very few huge blocks of text that are not broken up by some kind of graphic or artwork. The tribes of Orks are described in very nice detail, but lack any painted examples or any hint at how to paint them. Only two tribes are shown- the Goffs and Bad Moons. It looks like the Kult of Speed was written right out of the book. :(

Final Thoughts: The Orks play style has changed again, no surprise there. There is a focus on the new models, something GW has really been pushing in the last several books. The book itself is very bland and plain compared to a lot of the newer books GW has released. It shows a lot of pretty model pictures, but lacks teef if you know what I mean. I am sure that if I bought the digital codex and printed it out, it would look exactly like this book. Rules wise, like I said, GW has changed the play style of the Orks again, and I'm not sure what the focus is. Shooting? Close Combat? Both? Neither? It's definitely not in the Psychic phase, that's for sure. Sometimes, it would be nice to get a rules developer's point of view and intention of how an army is supposed to play when a new codex comes out. Right now, the fluff =/= how to play the Orks, and I don't know if that's an Ork Codex problem, or a 7th Edition rule set problem.

All these "problems" can be fixed by playing the game as designed.

Multiple CADs.
Lords of War.
Data slates and formations.

When you are playing against someone that doesn't allow these things, you are giving them an advantage.

Example: Seriously, who in their right mind is going to ignore a Stompa on the table? It's win/win for orks when they take one, and with MULTIPLE outlets for invulns and repairs.....They have to choose, shoot the giant nasty stompa, or shoot the massive hoard of infantry coming at me.

You can literally take a ORK CAD to hoard up boys, and a normal CAD for shootahs to lock down objectives. And you can literally use any fortification released now...(And orkify it)

You all asked for these things, you wanted new toys and more powerful units, quit whining and freaking use them.

This is a seventh Ed codex, if you choose to not utilize the tools GW gave you in seventh edition then that is why you are having problems.....

nosferatu1001 wrote:
Savage - so GW don't make money when people buy rhinos to convert to wagons? Or chimera, or russ...etc.

They were VERY vocal. Exceptionally so. Enough that GW noticed.

People were vocal about the Spore pod as well. I can't quantify how vocal they were, no more than you at least, and they went unheard. Is there a way you can actually point to how GW listened to the ork players while ignoring nid players other than speculation?

Well I'm not saying new orks are bad, it's just the way you play them now. I don't own loads of bugies, big gunz and baby stompas, they just look so bad in my opinion,bleh. Plus the biggest problem for me is putting all that plastic together in a bag and going by 2 buses to the shop to put my bazillion of stuff for 1000 points on the table when some space marines player just puts 2 tac squads hq and devs. I mean, I ran like 2 bws 1 trukk full of boyz and nobz and jet, which I just hate as it is so freaking big, I hate flyers!!! They are huge, it takes so much space that I can't even fit in any other vehicle in my warhammer case, if I put it there!, So this is my problem with orks.
I'd be fine to take some elite dudes and couple of bw, but carrying all this is just so annoying, I had broken my truks and some other models because transporting them is so hard . I'm almost not playing any games now just because of that, and playing kill team and mordheim more and more because i can just fit it in a back pack and off I go, which makes me realy sad as i love wh. And no, I don't have money to buy a car :(

I don't understand the explanation of the WD Looted Wagon as "They don't make a model for it". They do! They make a Chimera, and a Hellhound, and a Russ, and a Rhino.

It's almost as much a GW model as a Chaos Rhino. In fact, they could have offered an online deal with 1 Chimera/Hellhound/Russ/Rhino and a Ork Deathrolla sprue as a Looted Wagon purchase. If SM Rhino + Chaos Sprue=CSM Rhino, then SM Rhino + Ork Sprue should have equalled Looted Wagon.

I'm saddened by the general weakening of orks (seriously, Deff Dreads were too powerful fighting at I2?), but I'm really disappointed by the loss of pre-existing modeling options.
I can understand making Cybork body work as Feel No Pain, but why remove Cybork body from so many models which had it as an option? Why give (almost) every unit Stikkbombs?Why remove 'Eavy armor from Boyz mob Boss Nobs? These types of petty, pointless changes punish the dedicated fan and modeler, and push the game further away from being a tabletop wargame. If the models aren't equipped correctly, and aren't modeled appropriately, then why don't we use cardstock counters for them and save the money?

It seems to be what they are doing with Warlord Traits (you can't model them, since they are randomly rolled each game) and 'magic items' (aka Gifts of Gork and Mork). There's no way to tell the Lucky Stixx from a Waaagh Banner, and no way to tell the 'magic choppa' from a 'Uge Choppa, or the 'magic shoota' from a regular shoota. For a game that emphasizes 'cinematic' action and true line of sight, making important parts of the game only accessible on a piece of paper seems like an odd decision. I didn't like it with Chaos rewards, and I still don't like it.

I don't think anyone will be massively confused by seeing an ork nob who appears to be heavily armored but only as a 6+ save in a unit of 6+ saves, but why insult the guy who bought, modeled, and painted him that way? Given that GW doesn't sell enough armored plates to make all the orks in a box have 'eavy armor, why give the option for every unit to have it, since now orks that don't appear to have increased armor saves will, since it's an option?

 sfshilo wrote:
All these "problems" can be fixed by playing the game as designed.

Multiple CADs.
Lords of War.
Data slates and formations.

When you are playing against someone that doesn't allow these things, you are giving them an advantage.

Example: Seriously, who in their right mind is going to ignore a Stompa on the table? It's win/win for orks when they take one, and with MULTIPLE outlets for invulns and repairs.....They have to choose, shoot the giant nasty stompa, or shoot the massive hoard of infantry coming at me.

You can literally take a ORK CAD to hoard up boys, and a normal CAD for shootahs to lock down objectives. And you can literally use any fortification released now...(And orkify it)

You all asked for these things, you wanted new toys and more powerful units, quit whining and freaking use them.

This is a seventh Ed codex, if you choose to not utilize the tools GW gave you in seventh edition then that is why you are having problems.....

7th isn't "Designed" so much as it is a marketing plan with miniatures. People are not going to use multiple CADs to horde up, they'll use the minimum troops for each CAD and the maximum HQs, so they can stuff each unit with as many characters and special rules as possible. GW thinks they have figured out how to sell more box of Ork Boyz, really all they've done is sell character models. Assuming most players don't already have them.

I like the new ork codex.

Some old things got changed for better, or worse.

Sure we cant take Dreads or nobs as troops, but we can have 9 troops and 3 hqs with free mek slots.

Killakans now have double the unit size, so they aren't hurting so bad from having to take dreads in HS too.

I think the only real nerf is Lootas. Lootas got cheaper, but by moving them to HS they will not be fielded as often. Essentially they took one of the most popular units, made it slightly better, but then put it where all the new toys are and the BW are, making it so you are less likely to take them.

Ironically in a small points game you can make a very very shoot orky army with 3 loota squads and then tankbustas+ 2 5 man kommandos with 2 rokkits each. Not many points, lots of dakka. But 1500+ you probably want to spend the HS slots on something other than 3 lootas, of course when we consider more than 1 detachement, or that Orks can ally with Orks (orks/waaagh ghaz) then you can have some mojo.

 Crimson Devil wrote:

 sfshilo wrote:
All these "problems" can be fixed by playing the game as designed.

Multiple CADs.
Lords of War.
Data slates and formations.

When you are playing against someone that doesn't allow these things, you are giving them an advantage.

Example: Seriously, who in their right mind is going to ignore a Stompa on the table? It's win/win for orks when they take one, and with MULTIPLE outlets for invulns and repairs.....They have to choose, shoot the giant nasty stompa, or shoot the massive hoard of infantry coming at me.

You can literally take a ORK CAD to hoard up boys, and a normal CAD for shootahs to lock down objectives. And you can literally use any fortification released now...(And orkify it)

You all asked for these things, you wanted new toys and more powerful units, quit whining and freaking use them.

This is a seventh Ed codex, if you choose to not utilize the tools GW gave you in seventh edition then that is why you are having problems.....

7th isn't "Designed" so much as it is a marketing plan with miniatures. People are not going to use multiple CADs to horde up, they'll use the minimum troops for each CAD and the maximum HQs, so they can stuff each unit with as many characters and special rules as possible. GW thinks they have figured out how to sell more box of Ork Boyz, really all they've done is sell character models. Assuming most players don't already have them.

Bull.

They design the codex with the current ruleset and units in mind. Most people I talk to do not utilize like HALF the rules for the current book. (It is new, so something can be said for that.)

I know this, using this codex to it's FULL potential, not neutering it with fifth edition B.S. will help alot of you out.

Flyers, supers, lords of war, formations, etc. Stopping whining and use them. (Or keep getting owned by Tau and Eldar players, it's your choice I guess.)

This type of stuff was never an issue in 3rd or earlier! A WD unit would come out, "Cool! Lets play that and try it out"

 sfshilo wrote:


They design the codex with the current ruleset and units in mind.

The demon chariot was made in 6th where it could not move and shoot
the DA flyer had missile lock in 6th when it had no missiles that scatter, and even in 7th it's removed from the model so it doesn't apply still. (Does anything actually have missile lock?)
Look back at Necrons released last for 5th. Are you going to tell me they didn't design it for 6th edition?

DontEatRawHagis wrote:
A few people Ive talked to agree that the Day One DLC argument doesn't have a lot of weight. For one it makes sense to have it separate if GW doesn't want model-less units in their Codexes. Second, They're just glad they still have access to it even though they never fielded them in 6th. And a buck or two to get a new unit isn't that cad when your just using spare parts you have lying around to do a Kitbash unit.

Ah, but you see, they're wrong about that! For some reason, GW doesn't seem to grasp this one important fact- their models can be used as things they weren't originally sold as!

This was the issue with some of Chapterhouse's conversion kits, this is the issue with the Looted Wagon. They don't seem to recognize that, hey, guess what, every tank they sell is a Looted Wagon.


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Gleath wrote:
The codex isn't fun. There are some lists I think will work it's just the army does not feel like orks.

I've been trying several different list so far and what seems to work really well is 'eavy armor.
I gave the books formation a try with all boyz inside Trukk's and sporting 'eavy armor.
The list worked amazing in three separate games.
Now obviously you need to round it out a bit but it did work... However it seems very un-Orky.

Different kinds of Orks. I'll admit, losing some of the interesting randomness takes a bit of the fun out of it, as does losing the Deffrolla's "Krush it all!" ruleset. However, interestingly enough this new codex seems to be more in line with certain styles of play- especially those who prefer heavier armour. Orks aren't just about the Green Tide. They're also about being Kunnin', and they're about bein' Flash, and they're about bein' Fast, and they're about bein' the biggest and the strongest and havin' the most Teef.

This Codex could easily have been called "Kodex, Bad Moons" with how it's layed out. Plastic Meganobz, cheaper Battlewagons (I ran gunwagons anyways), slightly better Flash Gitz (which I also ran), more vehicles and more armour and more shooty stuff.


The one thing I'm a bit peeved about is the "Bubbles" thing. I mean seriously?

 Savageconvoy wrote:

 sfshilo wrote:


They design the codex with the current ruleset and units in mind.

The demon chariot was made in 6th where it could not move and shoot
the DA flyer had missile lock in 6th when it had no missiles that scatter, and even in 7th it's removed from the model so it doesn't apply still. (Does anything actually have missile lock?)
Look back at Necrons released last for 5th. Are you going to tell me they didn't design it for 6th edition?

6th had no Conjuration psyker powers either, some special rules never got used.

A lot of people are not thinking about this book in the 7th edition context.

Yes it's not Codex: Eldar, but that's the only book that stands head and shoulders above it (and above EVERY other book out there right now).

All the good points have so far outweighed the bad in my gaming experience, and I was just trying out my old tried and true favs (Nob Bikers, Biker Boss, Lootaz etc). These units still work and nearly everything else has gained significantly.

Getting back our old Waaagh is amazing, especially when you consider that you're also getting 2D6" movement, rerolling one die on that 2D6 and only losing 2" movement when assaulting through cover.

Deffrolla only D3 S10 attacks? So what, I'll take those odds for 10 points instead of 20, and you still get to re-roll difficult terrain, which I used 9/10 times, where as I only ever got to deffroll something 1/10 times at best.

So far I am happy with it. It's in line with the other decent books that have come out recently IMO.

What is so great about having a mek anyway? I never used them and never heard of a single ork player in my area ( there are dozens of them ) ever even owning a mek that didn't have KFF or SAG attached to it.

 More Dakka wrote:
Deffrolla only D3 S10 attacks? So what, I'll take those odds for 10 points instead of 20, and you still get to re-roll difficult terrain, which I used 9/10 times, where as I only ever got to deffroll something 1/10 times at best.

I'm guessing you missed the part where you can only use a death rolla against failed death or glory attacks thus making it not useable on vehicles. Even if you only used it 10% of time the death rolla did something that you don't hear a lot in 40k tactics, area denial.

A battle wagon with a deff rolla used to say "anything within 12/13 inches of me dies".

Simply by existing even if it wasn't being used it was controling the flow of combat.

Goresaw wrote:
I see a book of nothing but problems. No solutions.

How do I build a list to deal with massed IG tanks/wyverns?
How do I build a list to deal with centurion stars?
How do I build a list to fight wave serpents?
How do I build a list to stop massed missilesides?
How do I build a list to fight invisible spawn tide?
How do I build a list to compete with beastar?
How do I build a list to hurt dronestar/daemon flying circus?

I don't see anything but weaknesses.

Massed orks are more vulnerable than ever in a game where thunderfire cannons/wyverns are the weapons of choice for dealing with hordes.

Battlewagons got more expensive for something that was already far easier to kill than armor 14 would suggest (open topped armor 12 side vehicles who have massive side profiles).

Moral is now a bigger problem than ever before. Even kanz are going to run away. Things that 90% of the other armies laugh are HUGE problems for us. Pinning, fear, etc.

Big gunz are the biggest culprit. Toughness 7 is strong, but not invincible. Kill a few grots and they will see themselves off the table. At least they are cheap.

Which leads to the problem of heavy support bloat. If the community widely accepts multiple force org.... well good, I guess (although it helps other armies with far more effective choices than more than our army). If multiple force org is rejected by the community.... heaven help us.

At the end of the day, the ork codex has nothing that turns an 'okay' or 'great' unit into THE REAL ULTIMATE POWER like the other books have. Orks have nothing to 'smooth' the dice out or to turn things from a mathematical probability to a mathematical certainty. We don't have army wide rerolls. And sadly, since 6th ed... its really the only way to do business.

Its first vs third world here. Have's and have not's. You either have all the rerolls, or you don't. And the power gulf will only widen with time (as more and more imperial armies get 'updated' and can battlebrother each other).

This is a good post by some who understands. Someone who should of been on the list of people to test the codex before it launched. The whole codex needs a rewrite to be competitive and have rules that make sense. What they did to mob rule was uncalled for. and putting nerfed ghaz in LOW was obscene.

Guys, guys. I think its time to stop the complaining and accept that this book is actually fantastic, and you just don't know it yet.

I mean, thats what the internet says will happen, so it must be true. Right?

DontEatRawHagis wrote:
Remember when DLC was called Expansion pack, and People actually enjoyed it?

Remember when expansion packs contained content that was actually worth its price-tag, and said content wasn't obviously ripped straight out of the actual game so that the company selling it could make extra profit for practically free?

Pepperidge Farms remembers.

I got through 5 pages of this and i have to chime in. Codex: Orks is pretty Naff. It invalidates 3/4ths of the builds people had and is stuffed with filler and recycled material.

It is a naked cash grab designed around the principle of seeing how much money they can get compared to how little effort got put into it. It feels like a sketch of a codex someone put down and needs a second draft.

It had the potential to be good but if feels like it was purposefully gutted to make room for supplements. Kult of speed is coming, and people with 40-something bikes will be happy because they get to play their bikes as Troops again.

But they shouldn't be happy, the codex should come with as many options and modes of play as the previous one with some rules tweaking because that's all the codex needed.

They lost Bikes as Troops. They lost Nobs as Troops. They lost Deff Dreads as Troops. They lost Kan wall as viable (Thought that was on the decline anyway) They will release supplements that allow some of those options back. (I'm assuming bikes probably since that seems like the most likely option.

It feels like they purposefully gutted the options just so they could release supplements and give people the 'honour' of buying them back.

They will split this codex across as many supplements as possible so they don't get just 50 dollars from you. So they get 200 dollars from you. It's super greedy capitalism at its most obvious.

Nids seemed like a one off mistake, a bad misstep designed by someone who didn't know that the army needed and didn't have enough time to work on it.

Orks seems like a deliberate, evil, purposeful evisceration of a once proud and very, very fun codex just to make money.

(BTW's I don't play Orks, I'm just a fan o f them)


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 BlaxicanX wrote:

DontEatRawHagis wrote:
Remember when DLC was called Expansion pack, and People actually enjoyed it?

Remember when expansion packs contained content that was actually worth its price-tag, and said content wasn't obviously ripped straight out of the actual game so that the company selling it could make extra profit for practically free?

Pepperidge Farms remembers.

Brood war came out many months to a year after Star Craft and contained new missions, storyline, voice acting and cinematics. It was more of a sequel than anything else.

Day one DLC is something purposefully removed from the final product and sold seperately just to get more money. I'm looking at you Mass Effect 3, Resident evil: Orc, Assassin's Creed and many others.

krodarklorr wrote:
Hey guys, I'm just gonna express my feelings towards the new Ork Codex. I don't play Orks, but my friend just got the codex and we read through it and everything. They got a lot of cool stuff, rules tweaks, much needed things, but the codex is SO bland. I hate the layout of the 7th Edition codex. They have Model pictures instead of nicely drawn, fluffy pictures for the unit descriptions. They include Lords of War, which I know are technically part of the game and it makes it easier to be in the book, but a lot of people don't like fighting Lords of War, but now people can use the excuse of "It's in the codex, I'm free to use it all the time, suck it up." Also, the Orks were one of the most unique armies in my opinion. Their weird rules, randomness, everything like that. Now, most of it is gone. My friend said that they're trying to make all the codexes more like Textbooks. Here's your rules, read them, buy models, play. No story, just bland. Me and him both feel like GW's caring level keeps going down. At this point, I'm not even excited about the Necron Codex when it comes out, since it will probably be set up the same way. I'm not planning on quitting 40k, but I'm probably just gonna focus more on Fantasy, or even something not GW related at all, like Warmachine, since everyone's going that way anyway.

What do you guys think of the codex? Yeah, I know I don't play Orks, but it still pains me to see this codex.

I just got the codex and was able to check it out 7th and as a Ork player im digging it not only is it full of fluff and explain all the klans and awesome pictures of one of there boyz also have a cool timeline and was able to fit in mini pictures which i thought was fine. The rules have not changed in a bad way I am so excited to finally be able to play a updated codex for the Orks and its a strong codex that I am excited to use. I have to admit the ork werid boyz are epic not only do they get intense ork spells but with daemonlogy its kinda lame and lore breaking (unless your think of using Tuska the Daemonkila)

The only thing im bummed about is that I have to wait for a supplement for zogwort and wazzdakka.

But these are my opinions i like the updated rules and the fixes. Not saying Gw off the hook for stupid prices and other things...

Not to start an unrelated argument, but...
Please. Bitching about Day 1 DLC? If it looks dumb don't pay for it. If it looks cool, but it.
Here's the proposed question: If any DLC had just come out three months later, would you be complaining? Or is the timing the only thing you care about?
If it's the timing, then you're just complaining that games aren't long enough. Seriously. You're saying that the original game, codex, whatever was not worth its original cost, and that it needed 6 more hours of gameplay or another set of Relics, Formations, and Warlord Traits to be worth it's cost. And if you don't think that a full-length game isn't full-length enough, then you're complaining that the game developers aren't giving you free things.

So, which is it: The Ork Codex, or Assassin's Creed, or Mass Affect... Is it not a full product? Or do you want a business to give you free things?

No, I want businesses to offer something thats remotely worth the pricetag

Not to start an unrelated argument, but...

Saying that doesn't suddenly make it ok to start an unrelated argument.

Waaaghpower wrote:

snip..................................... If it looks cool, but it. ..............................

You can do whatever you want with your GW stuff. I wouldn't recommend that though, doesn't seem safe.

 Dakkamite wrote:
No, I want businesses to offer something thats remotely worth the pricetag

Not to start an unrelated argument, but...

Saying that doesn't suddenly make it ok to start an unrelated argument.

Then i have a simple answer for you. Dont buy the thing.

Between this thread, and the many other ork threads and you keep threatening to sell your army, then just do it and get it over with.

Us not buying the thing doesn't stop GW from cutting more content out of future products. All of us need to not buy the thing so maybe GW sees sense and stops the ridiculous less content at a higher price model. Like it or not we're heavily invested in this hobby and here to stay, so if GW is playing silly buggers damn straight we're going to complain about it.

 Yonan wrote:
Us not buying the thing doesn't stop GW from cutting more content out of future products. All of us need to not buy the thing so maybe GW sees sense and stops the ridiculous less content at a higher price model. Like it or not we're heavily invested in this hobby and here to stay, so if GW is playing silly buggers damn straight we're going to complain about it.

Thats like complaining about michael bay making bad transformers movies and that he shouldnt make more. These things make too much money for them to go 'nope'

They're a business, what do you really expect? They're not your best friends or family, they are here for your money.

And yet, other miniatures companies manage to make money without resorting to anti-customer practices such as this. Given GWs large reduction in sales last year, which coincided with the large ramping up of pay more for less, here's hoping it's backfiring on them.

 Yonan wrote:
And yet, other miniatures companies manage to make money without resorting to anti-customer practices such as this. Given GWs large reduction in sales last year, which coincided with the large ramping up of pay more for less, here's hoping it's backfiring on them.

Then the answer is simple again. Go play other miniature companies games. Being an Australian i feel your pain aswell, but complaining about this issue will get us nowhere at all. They can, and will, do whatever they want to make money. Its about time people just accepted it.

Since GW's birth, did they ever lower their prices on a large scale? I dont think so. They're not going to start now.

If this was a PC game that I could just drop, sure. However the several grands worth of miniatures is a substantial investment. Complaining has some small chance of getting the game to improve. Doing nothing doesn't even have that. I'd stick around here to discuss the PC games, modeling and fluff so why wouldn't I bitch about the rules while I'm already here ; )

Dragonzord wrote:

 Yonan wrote:
And yet, other miniatures companies manage to make money without resorting to anti-customer practices such as this. Given GWs large reduction in sales last year, which coincided with the large ramping up of pay more for less, here's hoping it's backfiring on them.

Then the answer is simple again. Go play other miniature companies games. Being an Australian i feel your pain aswell, but complaining about this issue will get us nowhere at all. They can, and will, do whatever they want to make money. Its about time people just accepted it.

Here's the thing though, for any other company out there this wouldn't be pointless complaining. Other companies try to make products that people want, rather than make products and assume they will sell. Other companies actually spend money to get people to look at this kind of 'complaining' filter out the trolls, those who will never be happy and those with simply bad ideas and then use the remaining 'complaints' as feedback to improve their product.

I think those of us who complain a lot on these forums are really just waiting for that to happen. We are waiting for our legitimate problems with GW to be acknowledged and fixed. It's not likely to happen at all, but that's how it SHOULD happen.

 Celtic Strike wrote:
Codex: Orks is pretty Naff. It invalidates 3/4ths of the builds people had and is stuffed with filler and recycled material.

It is a naked cash grab... feels like it was purposefully gutted to make room for supplements
Orks seems like a deliberate, evil, purposeful evisceration of a once proud and very, very fun codex just to make money.

OK....

(BTW's I don't play Orks, I'm just a fan o f them)

Ah yes. The internetz. The place where people get angry about something they haven't even read..

We're still looking and thinking about how the new codex affects us; we've lost our biker nobz, but with the huge benefit of being able to field a stompa, when we're up against the super-competitive types. In the meantime, we'll ignore uninformed comments like the one above.

Funny, too, all these people whining about how their loota wagons got stolen in an exploitative cashgrab, but no-one's so angry they've taken me up on an offer of the PDF. Seriously, any time, if it helps salve those wounds,you're welcome.

Why would someone ask you for the pdf? They know where to get it online, just like I did.

 Yonan wrote:
Why would someone ask you for the pdf? They know where to get it online, just like I did.

Good to see someone else not hurt and wounded by getting WD rules - just like the good old days, that so many people were extolling.

 jonolikespie wrote:

Dragonzord wrote:

 Yonan wrote:
And yet, other miniatures companies manage to make money without resorting to anti-customer practices such as this. Given GWs large reduction in sales last year, which coincided with the large ramping up of pay more for less, here's hoping it's backfiring on them.

Then the answer is simple again. Go play other miniature companies games. Being an Australian i feel your pain aswell, but complaining about this issue will get us nowhere at all. They can, and will, do whatever they want to make money. Its about time people just accepted it.

Here's the thing though, for any other company out there this wouldn't be pointless complaining. Other companies try to make products that people want, rather than make products and assume they will sell. Other companies actually spend money to get people to look at this kind of 'complaining' filter out the trolls, those who will never be happy and those with simply bad ideas and then use the remaining 'complaints' as feedback to improve their product.

I think those of us who complain a lot on these forums are really just waiting for that to happen. We are waiting for our legitimate problems with GW to be acknowledged and fixed. It's not likely to happen at all, but that's how it SHOULD happen.

Exactly, thats how it should happen i agree. The company should care about us, how we feel about their products and what we want. But as you said, this is GW, and that has no chance of happening. They care about our wallets, and only our wallets.

I agree with those who say that day one dlc is bad, but does that mean I'm going to make the content in the dlc unavailable to myself by being spiteful and denying gw the money? Nope. And the content in the ghazzy book is good. Worth the $85 that others will pay? Nope. Worth getting it in the warboss edition? Yep.

We have all spent far too much money to just give up, but complaining for pages of threads isnt going to help. GW wont listen, and it wont make you feel any better about it. Someone on here has said multiple times 'im gonna sell my orks coz of this codex'.... multiple times? We got it the first time, anything after that is just being stupid. Sell the army and move on, which is what many people need to do with the 'supplements', move on. If you dont like it, you can sell your army too.

The player can do the constructive thing here and either get over what GW are doing (because its not going away), dont buy the supplments, pirate it, or sell their army. Complaining isnt on the list because there is nothing going to come out of that.

There is an interesting issue I'd like to raise about the Ork relics.
As far as I can tell there is nothing in the Ork Codex that stops you from taking more than one Gift of Gork and Mork item on a single Character.
Since it states that "Only one of each of the following artifacts may be chosen per army - there is only one of each of these in the galaxy!"

So my interpretation is that you may take let's say:
Gazbag's Blitzbike, Da Lucky Stikk and Headwoppa's Kill Choppa on the same character, (Warboss preferably).
But you may not give another character any of these relic anymore since there is only one of each.

This is what I interpreted based on the exact wording in the Codex, however I haven't seen a single Army List with more than one relic per character.
If they wanted to limit use of 1 relic per Character they could have simply said that you can take only one relic/gift per character, and that there is only one of each in the galaxy!
Can anyone confirm or refute this?

thats right, it doesnt say at all 'one per character'... how odd. I reckon that'll be FAQ'd out.

Dragonzord wrote:
it wont make you feel any better about it.

Incorrect!

cathartic - providing psychological relief through the open expression of strong emotions; causing catharsis.

I thought Orks were tuff? I've never seen so much crying in the wake of a new codex. And as for this whole "Day one DLC" crap? That was done as a fan service. Why twist it to make it something it's not? It's not like it's hard to take a screenshot on your phone and there you go, you didn't have to pay for it.

Why do people gotta act so entitled? You're meant to be Orks. Start acting like it.

This isn't crying. This is anger. Orks iz plennty angry.

PapaSoul wrote:
I thought Orks were tuff? I've never seen so much crying in the wake of a new codex. And as for this whole "Day one DLC" crap? That was done as a fan service. Why twist it to make it something it's not? It's not like it's hard to take a screenshot on your phone and there you go, you didn't have to pay for it.

Why do people gotta act so entitled? You're meant to be Orks. Start acting like it.

I'm not an *Ork*, I'm a human being, and so are you.

If I was an Ork, I wouldn't be collecting toy soldiers, I would put on my Power Klaw, jump on my Warbike, drive it over to nottingham and shove it up Tom Kirby's arse.

Dragonzord wrote:
thats right, it doesnt say at all 'one per character'... how odd. I reckon that'll be FAQ'd out.

Let's hope not.

PapaSoul wrote:
I thought Orks were tuff? I've never seen so much crying in the wake of a new codex.

You took up the hobby last month, I take it?

 Zagy wrote:

Dragonzord wrote:
thats right, it doesnt say at all 'one per character'... how odd. I reckon that'll be FAQ'd out.

Let's hope not.

unfortunatly in the wargear list it says "a model may take one of the following" under the line saying only one of each in the army.

 lord_blackfang wrote:

PapaSoul wrote:
I thought Orks were tuff? I've never seen so much crying in the wake of a new codex.

You took up the hobby last month, I take it?

Funny man. I've been playing since 2nd son.

Skullhammer wrote:

 Zagy wrote:

Dragonzord wrote:
thats right, it doesnt say at all 'one per character'... how odd. I reckon that'll be FAQ'd out.

Let's hope not.

unfortunatly in the wargear list it says "a model may take one of the following" under the line saying only one of each in the army.

Which doesn't necessarily mean anything except "You can only take this item once"...

 Dakkamite wrote:
Guys, guys. I think its time to stop the complaining and accept that this book is actually fantastic, and you just don't know it yet.

I mean, thats what the internet says will happen, so it must be true. Right?

Obviously we should just agree with what you say instead of agree with other internet people say.

It's funny how the guys saying "stop complaining, it doesn't do any good." are the ones also saying "the looted wagon was added as DLC because of customer outrage."

Which is it? Does GW listen to complaints or not?



They don't, BTW, but that doesn't mean you should stop.

 MWHistorian wrote:

Which is it? Does GW listen to complaints or not?

I'm sure a lot of Nid players would like to know how their complaining wasn't good enough to get the spore pod back.

Melevolence wrote:

This is the issue. Army wide rerolls should not be the standard. Us getting an army wide 5+ FNP or even a 6+ FNP wouldn't do much to solve our problems anyway. And it would have only caused EVERYTHING to go up in price points wise. You can bet your bottom dollar on that. I don't feel like spending 10 points or more per Boy BEFORE upgrades.

Trust me, you definitely want more expensive, more durable boyz. If you gave all orks FNP 5+, and an appropriate point increase, you can then field less boyz but have the same amount of staying power. This would make your army more maneuverable (you wont clog up the board) and less vulnerable to anti hoard weapons, like the wyvern.

I mean really, has anyone ever had a fun game with a 100+ boyz on the table, trying to move them across the board, and having to deal with placing models in and around terrain pieces?

PapaSoul wrote:

 lord_blackfang wrote:

PapaSoul wrote:
I thought Orks were tuff? I've never seen so much crying in the wake of a new codex.

You took up the hobby last month, I take it?

Funny man. I've been playing since 2nd son.

Everyone complained even back then, but usually about other people's armies, not their own. I distinctly remember that Eldar players started bucking that trend in 3rd.

 lord_blackfang wrote:

PapaSoul wrote:

 lord_blackfang wrote:

PapaSoul wrote:
I thought Orks were tuff? I've never seen so much crying in the wake of a new codex.

You took up the hobby last month, I take it?

Funny man. I've been playing since 2nd son.

Everyone complained even back then, but usually about other people's armies, not their own. I distinctly remember that Eldar players started bucking that trend in 3rd.

I've been with 40k since the beginning and I've never seen such widespread negativity before. Also, I've never seen GW deserve it this much before.

GorillaWarfare wrote:

I mean really, has anyone ever had a fun game with a 100+ boyz on the table, trying to move them across the board, and having to deal with placing models in and around terrain pieces?

Yes.

Too many pages to read them all, sorry fellas, but I'll reply on the first post and some of the stuff I read.

The layout has some advantages. While it's not as easy to flip through when writing a list (I haven't had much of a problem, but then, I've also gotten used to writing lists with GW books on a Kindle), it's a lot easier to reference a unit's rules in-game. The photos in place of artwork make sure that newer players (even just new to the army) can figure out what each unit is supposed to be, no guesswork involved.

There's still a decent amount of background, and I've enjoyed reading some of the stories of various Ork hijinks (like hijacking a Titan, always good for a laugh). More would be nice, but I'm worried they'd try to make new background and give them the Necron treatment.

As for the rules... They're not that bad. It'll take some getting used to, sure. You can't just throw a wave of Boyz out there and expect them to stick around just because there's a lot of them. I would prefer not to risk losing more Boyz to infighting, but heck, if I lose one or two while the rest of the unit sticks around and doesn't Fall Back, I'll take that. Some of the units don't seem that great, but when you combine them with other units they're a lot better. It's going to take some effort to figure out all the combinations and how to make them work.

I understand some of the random factor being gone. They've slowly been edging 40K back toward 2nd edition in terms of complexity, which is already slowing down games. In the local GW store we've been asked to keep it to 1500 points or less. Imagine if that was the new default, suddenly they're selling fewer models! So they have to speed up the game somewhere. If that means no chart to see what random event happens to a Trukk after you just rolled a random event chart, that's what they'll do. I miss the old Madboyz with 20 pages of rules, but I understand they wouldn't work in the game these days like that (in 3rd edition, they were reduced to a single D6 chart and Fearless).

Maybe it's just that I've waited so long for a new book for my favorite army, but I'm excited to try them out on the field. I've been pulling out Ork models to assemble and prime and paint the last two or three weeks, making additions to my Waagh!, and often just plowing through multiple painting sessions with small breaks in the evenings so I can get more of them done and more options for the table. I am freaking giddy to see these guys on the field. I'm not letting the nay-sayers bug me. I believe in my Orks.

Oh, and as for the Stompa's inclusion, that and Ghaz being a Lord of War were both basically to nudge people further toward allowing them more often. We all knew it was coming when Escalation heralded that shift in order to move large models. In the case of Orks, in larger games especially, the Stompa tends to bring a lot of much-needed bonuses to the army (anti-tank fire, anti-Marine fire, swift anti-tank CC, protects up to 20 guys inside, projects a Fearless bubble around it).

But nah, tell me you won't let me use a Stompa from my codex, I'll just use my Knight as a CTA ally. Sure I have to deploy him 12" away to start the game, but he's fast enough to get in and wreck face.


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 MWHistorian wrote:
I've been with 40k since the beginning and I've never seen such widespread negativity before. Also, I've never seen GW deserve it this much before.

That. Spot-on. It's worse than ever, but it's deserved. The company is making it more and more obvious that they're only doing rules to sell models, and they'll fundamentally shift the game in order to sell more expensive models. It's going to get to a point where we have "armies" of just half-dozen models that cost $130-$150 each.

Oh, wait...

http://www.games-workshop.com/en-US/Codex-Imperial-Knights-English

There's many things in the new book I can live with. Over crowded heavy slot, point changes, mob rule changes. But the only thing that ruins it all for me is the loss of our invulnerable saves. Sure, FnP is nice and all, but It usually doesn't do much for me. Usually I would run my warboss into challenges to kick some butt, but with the rise in psykers and force weapons, I'm a little hesitant to even let him leave his battle wagon.

I can imagine the Ork Warboss not in Mega Armour getting stomped by most of my opponents HQ's, besides maybe Imperial Guard.


Either he takes the PowerKlaw, hits last, and gets killed by a force weapon or maybe just a Captain with power maul.

Or he takes the Special Choppa, doesn't roll a 6, and gets killed again...

I dunno i just thought a Warboss would be tougher.

 MWHistorian wrote:
It's funny how the guys saying "stop complaining, it doesn't do any good." are the ones also saying "the looted wagon was added as DLC because of customer outrage."

Which is it? Does GW listen to complaints or not?



They don't, BTW, but that doesn't mean you should stop.

They are also the bunch saying you can't determine if a unit is bad by just reading, you have to play it. But in the next breath say a unit is good, just by reading.

 Crimson Devil wrote:

 MWHistorian wrote:
It's funny how the guys saying "stop complaining, it doesn't do any good." are the ones also saying "the looted wagon was added as DLC because of customer outrage."

Which is it? Does GW listen to complaints or not?



They don't, BTW, but that doesn't mean you should stop.

They are also the bunch saying you can't determine if a unit is bad by just reading, you have to play it. But in the next breath say a unit is good, just by reading.

My favorite is:
"That unit isn't bad, you should try it out first."
"I have. I've played several games and I just can't justify it anymore. They are bad."
"You must not have been using them right. They're great."

Dragonzord wrote:
thats right, it doesnt say at all 'one per character'... how odd. I reckon that'll be FAQ'd out.

Reading the digital version of the Codex and right above the Relics list, it says: "A model can take one of the following:". Whereas with the regular gear lists, the wording says: "A model can take up to one of each of the following:". It seems it's specifically worded so that each HQ model can only take one Relic.

I'm VERY interested in running a Green Tide formation from the Ghaz supplement, but I don't have the book yet. Are relics from the two books mix-and-match? That is to say, could I use the Green Tide formation, give the Warboss of that unit the Lucky Stikk for rerolls on the various challenges he's required to take/make, and give a Big Mek taken from the FOC in the main book the Big Bosspole relic from Ghaz then join the Green Tide?

I can sum up my opinion by looking at one unit... MegaNobz.

Space Marine Terminators w/ Powerfists cost the same points as MANz with the following differences:
* +2 BS
*-1 W
*+1 I
*-1 A
*+2 Ld
*5++
*deepstrike
*and they shall know no fear
*Chaper tactics

In a bubble Terminators can instant kill Meganobz, with no saves of any kind available for MANz. On the flipside, Meganobz MIGHT have a chance of killing terminators because they have one more attack, and if the terminator fail their 5++.
Real world cost, Meganobz aren't going anywhere without a transport, whereas terminators can just deepstrike. This isn't even a fair comparison since there is going to be extra points spent by the ork player to deliver MANz.
So the winner here is clearly Terminators, if by no other reason, their true cost is much less.


Chaos Terminators w/ Powerfists. Almost exactly the same stats, and outcome as above with two major differences:

1) Chaos Terminators are cheaper than MegaNobz (38.4 points per vs 40).
2) Chaos Terminators can take anti MegaNob gear
*Mark of Tzeentch (4++)
*Combi-Melta

I played a mass MegaNob list, where my opponent deepstrike’d in his Chaos Terminators that melta fired one unit of MegaNobz to death, and CC'd another unit to death. And the point cost for this unit was cheaper than just 1 of those MegaNobz units w/ BW.

This would be all fine if we were talking about the old book, but we’re talking about a new book that just came out, AFTER both the Space Marines book, and the Chaos Space Marines book.

 Multimoog wrote:

Dragonzord wrote:
thats right, it doesnt say at all 'one per character'... how odd. I reckon that'll be FAQ'd out.

Reading the digital version of the Codex and right above the Relics list, it says: "A model can take one of the following:". Whereas with the regular gear lists, the wording says: "A model can take up to one of each of the following:". It seems it's specifically worded so that each HQ model can only take one Relic.

I'm VERY interested in running a Green Tide formation from the Ghaz supplement, but I don't have the book yet. Are relics from the two books mix-and-match? That is to say, could I use the Green Tide formation, give the Warboss of that unit the Lucky Stikk for rerolls on the various challenges he's required to take/make, and give a Big Mek taken from the FOC in the main book the Big Bosspole relic from Ghaz then join the Green Tide?

The Warboss can only take stuff from the Ghaz book. It specifically says any unit in a detachment or formation chosen from that supplement can only take the relics listed in it and can't choose from the Gifts of Gork and Mork. So the Warboss can't have the Lucky Stikk, even though it's Ghazghkull's old banner pole.

And now that I've typed that out, my brain hurts.

 ErikSetzer wrote:

 Multimoog wrote:

Dragonzord wrote:
thats right, it doesnt say at all 'one per character'... how odd. I reckon that'll be FAQ'd out.

Reading the digital version of the Codex and right above the Relics list, it says: "A model can take one of the following:". Whereas with the regular gear lists, the wording says: "A model can take up to one of each of the following:". It seems it's specifically worded so that each HQ model can only take one Relic.

I'm VERY interested in running a Green Tide formation from the Ghaz supplement, but I don't have the book yet. Are relics from the two books mix-and-match? That is to say, could I use the Green Tide formation, give the Warboss of that unit the Lucky Stikk for rerolls on the various challenges he's required to take/make, and give a Big Mek taken from the FOC in the main book the Big Bosspole relic from Ghaz then join the Green Tide?

The Warboss can only take stuff from the Ghaz book. It specifically says any unit in a detachment or formation chosen from that supplement can only take the relics listed in it and can't choose from the Gifts of Gork and Mork. So the Warboss can't have the Lucky Stikk, even though it's Ghazghkull's old banner pole.

And now that I've typed that out, my brain hurts.

I was afraid of that. This makes the Green Tide warboss much less survivable, unless I make him a MAW at the expense of unit mobility. Thinking it might be a good idea to take the points saved on buying relics and take a couple of Little Meks to accept and make challenges.

 Multimoog wrote:

 ErikSetzer wrote:

 Multimoog wrote:

Dragonzord wrote:
thats right, it doesnt say at all 'one per character'... how odd. I reckon that'll be FAQ'd out.

Reading the digital version of the Codex and right above the Relics list, it says: "A model can take one of the following:". Whereas with the regular gear lists, the wording says: "A model can take up to one of each of the following:". It seems it's specifically worded so that each HQ model can only take one Relic.

I'm VERY interested in running a Green Tide formation from the Ghaz supplement, but I don't have the book yet. Are relics from the two books mix-and-match? That is to say, could I use the Green Tide formation, give the Warboss of that unit the Lucky Stikk for rerolls on the various challenges he's required to take/make, and give a Big Mek taken from the FOC in the main book the Big Bosspole relic from Ghaz then join the Green Tide?

The Warboss can only take stuff from the Ghaz book. It specifically says any unit in a detachment or formation chosen from that supplement can only take the relics listed in it and can't choose from the Gifts of Gork and Mork. So the Warboss can't have the Lucky Stikk, even though it's Ghazghkull's old banner pole.

And now that I've typed that out, my brain hurts.

I was afraid of that. This makes the Green Tide warboss much less survivable, unless I make him a MAW at the expense of unit mobility. Thinking it might be a good idea to take the points saved on buying relics and take a couple of Little Meks to accept and make challenges.

Taking him in mega armor wouldnt be a good idea since you cant run. I would just give the warboss da big bosspole and add another from a CAD of Codex orks with the lukky stikk.

I'm new, but I don't see that many major changes. Most of them seem minor.

Pros:
Ere We Go!!! Is Awesome
Hammer of Wrath hasn't happened for me yet.
Painboy is an Independent character. Not sure if he is worth 50pts, but he is cheaper than armor.
Weirdboy/Warphead is more reliable and might get to cast 2 spells per turn.
Some of the Gifts are awesome: Shiny Shoota and Lucky Stick (not sure if it is a BP or not).
Tanksbustas are cheaper, got Tank Hunter, Tank Bombs, can choose their target and got a Trukk.
Lootas are cheaper, and are HS were they belong Heavy Weapon.
The new Artllery is cheap and looks Dead Killy.
Storm Boyz can go to 30.
Flash Gitz guns are better and they are cheaper, but they did lose their armor.
Rokkits are cheaper all over the place.
The Bomber bomb is better.
Bikkers are cheaper, but lost their cover save.

Cons:
Attack Squig isn't +1A, but I tend to miss one anyway. Would have been even better with Da Lucky Stick.
Trukks lost Ramshackle.
No longer fearless, but d6 S4 Attacks should only mean 1 or 2 wounds. Still sucks though.
KFF has a shorter range, but is ++.
Planes don't double shots on WAAAGH!
+1 for Bolters is lame. Especially since you have to pay it for everyone to include special weapon guys and the Nob which is free on the Range list.
Burnas slightly up in cost.
Warlord 6 is plus 1S, but all Warbosses should have Klaws.
Head Bang has to roll to hit. On the other hand it doesn't blow up my head.

There are probably others, but I am doing this from memory on a smart phone.

Over all I am more pleased than displeased.

Dragonzord wrote:

Thats like complaining about michael bay making bad transformers movies and that he shouldnt make more. These things make too much money for them to go 'nope'

They're a business, what do you really expect? They're not your best friends or family, they are here for your money.

And people wonder why I have a problem with a private healthcare system. :-)

 MagicMan wrote:
I can imagine the Ork Warboss not in Mega Armour getting stomped by most of my opponents HQ's, besides maybe Imperial Guard.


Either he takes the PowerKlaw, hits last, and gets killed by a force weapon or maybe just a Captain with power maul.

Or he takes the Special Choppa, doesn't roll a 6, and gets killed again...

I dunno i just thought a Warboss would be tougher.

Yeah, I honestly feel like they should've made the Warboss among the best CC models in the game. He damn well deserves it. But at this point, I'm not really scared of him.

 easysauce wrote:

 Ravenous D wrote:

 slowthar wrote:


3) With said group try a non-GW game.

Nobody likes a quitter.

Plus people still love 40k, they just hate GW and that relationship was going fine until GW started shoving its way into the core mechanics to try and sleeze out some more money. Now we have a bunch of dreadfleet-esq random gak smeared all over the game, and the only way to make it work is take it away from GW.

well, to be fair, GW might have to do less profit "squeesing" if they were not getting jackhammered by people D/L pdfs of the rules for free, and getting re casts .

just look at HMV and blockbuster to see what happens to companies when everyone just starts getting their products for free, or from forgers.

This is false, those things got driven out of business because they used business models that were out of date and sold product no one bought anymore.

What to see two companies that are doing really well, look at Netflix and Steam. All digital, stream and direct download. Netflix is competitively priced and offers a great, easy to use low cost product.
Steam does the same, that may (WILL) change when steam becomes the only game company selling online. If GOG, Games for Windows live, Origin ect go out of business then steam WILL jack up their prices because they're the only ones left.

I haven't bought music, tv shows or music since Pandora and netflix but people still do those things (I don't pirate either btws)
I haven't pirated games since I got steam, because they sell a good product at a cheap price.

What GW thinks they are is a monopoly. Does ANYONE like Comcast? They're terrible but they can be because they're the only option. GW thinks they're this and keeps pushing itself like this. It doesn't realize they're not the only boyz in town any more. Or they do realize that and a panicking and going about it the totally wrong way. I haven't purchased a GW model in 4 years. I would, if they were cheaper, I won't now.

TL;DR anyway, the ork codex feels very un-orky, very spartan and lazy. If they do release Supplements that reinstate all their lost options then GW will have taken that train to micro transaction hell.

There's no reason that a new codex should lack 3/4ths of the options the old codex had.

I've got another Ghaz supplement question. In the rule that states you must take and issue challenges, it specifically states that your Warlord has to do it. Is there anything that says a Warboss included in a Ghaz formation HAS to be your Warlord? If I take a Green Tide, the Warboss included in the unit doesn't have to be my army's Warlord?

 Hivefleet Oblivion wrote:

 Celtic Strike wrote:
Codex: Orks is pretty Naff. It invalidates 3/4ths of the builds people had and is stuffed with filler and recycled material.

It is a naked cash grab... feels like it was purposefully gutted to make room for supplements
Orks seems like a deliberate, evil, purposeful evisceration of a once proud and very, very fun codex just to make money.

OK....

(BTW's I don't play Orks, I'm just a fan o f them)

Ah yes. The internetz. The place where people get angry about something they haven't even read..

We're still looking and thinking about how the new codex affects us; we've lost our biker nobz, but with the huge benefit of being able to field a stompa, when we're up against the super-competitive types. In the meantime, we'll ignore uninformed comments like the one above.

Funny, too, all these people whining about how their loota wagons got stolen in an exploitative cashgrab, but no-one's so angry they've taken me up on an offer of the PDF. Seriously, any time, if it helps salve those wounds,you're welcome.

I used to play orks, back in second and third edition but sold them all to a friend who was starting the game.

I also have read it, cover to cover. It wasn't hard to do. There's only 90 words in the whole codex. The rest is filled with giant pictures.

Tell me, where are the bikes as Troops? Where are the Deff Dreads as Troops? Where are the Nobs (Not just nob bikers but regular nobs - I used to run nobs on foot btws) as Troops?

Also, good luck being able to actually find someone who will let you field a Stompa. Cos they won't. Also, most people don't have stompas. So, yay, they gave you something that's cool but costs hundreds of dollars to use and you'll have to use it because the rest of the codex is naff.

 Multimoog wrote:
I've got another Ghaz supplement question. In the rule that states you must take and issue challenges, it specifically states that your Warlord has to do it. Is there anything that says a Warboss included in a Ghaz formation HAS to be your Warlord? If I take a Green Tide, the Warboss included in the unit doesn't have to be my army's Warlord?

He dosent have to be your warlord, but if you want to waaagh every turn he has to be.

in 7th you don't pick your warlord from the HQs in a specific detachment.

You pick your Warlord, and your warlords detachment becomes your primary detachment.

Unless there is a rule stating "your warlord may not be from this detachment" or "this model must be your warlord if you take it in your army" you can make any HQ the warlord.

nosferatu1001 wrote:
Then don't play the new dex either.

Done. It's not like GW forces you to buy it.

Wow! Thanks for that brilliant advice, except that I have *already* bought it since until buying it and reading it I don't know what impact that it will have on my army. Given that the usual new codex posts here are either going on how awesome it is or how completely useless it is and seldom offer any kind of clear insight that good old fashioned reading it for yourself gives you, I need to give it a read. Besides my *group* makes me use it, even if GW doesn't. New book comes out it replaces the old, end of story. Everyone else has had their day to get kicked in the nuts by a new codex and now it is the ork's turn. Only two more to go for our group: Dark Eldar and Space Wolves and after that won't have to buy anything else for us.

Skriker

Ok so after reading up on comments, I decided to add my first impressions and input as a day 1 launch from the new Ork codex in a Batrep:



I've had another game since then, and that is also a Battle Report, which is currently being edited and uploading as we speak..

Everyone else except Eldar, Tau, Space marines and Deamons

So your group has gaping double standards? Not really anything that can be said....

 Multimoog wrote:
I've got another Ghaz supplement question. In the rule that states you must take and issue challenges, it specifically states that your Warlord has to do it. Is there anything that says a Warboss included in a Ghaz formation HAS to be your Warlord? If I take a Green Tide, the Warboss included in the unit doesn't have to be my army's Warlord?

Correct.

The only seeming exception is "The Council of Waagh!", where Ghazghkull must be your Warlord since he has to make the Warlord rolls for his extra two Warlord traits from his book.

blaktoof wrote:
in 7th you don't pick your warlord from the HQs in a specific detachment.

You pick your Warlord, and your warlords detachment becomes your primary detachment.

Unless there is a rule stating "your warlord may not be from this detachment" or "this model must be your warlord if you take it in your army" you can make any HQ the warlord.

Since I don't have the Ghaz supplement on hand, I'm still going on secondhand accounts and didn't know whether or not the Green Tide formation required that unit's Warboss to be your Warlord. I usually make my Ork Warlord be a Big Mek w/SAG on a backfield Skyshield in a unit of Kannons stuffed with extra grot crew to make it difficult for my opponent to score Slay the Warlord (4++, T7, tons of Look Out Sir)

I think the dex, (while not great) isn't as terribad as people have been be-moaning it to be. I see some actual use of Unbound here. (Without bringing 10-riptide list bullgak) Mek gunz look cool. The Killkannon went down by essentially 10 points so that's a small plus. Tanksbustas are useable now. As are Buggies. Deffcoptas got quite a bit better and the Orktifacts are pretty nice.

All in all, not TOO bad. But still not great. I just hope Tau gets this treatment. (Heh heh heh...)

I agree with Overlord Thraka. I'm not fond of all the changes and I definitely miss our old Mob Rule, but there were enough positibe changes to compensate for this. Our Speed Freaks got vastly better, Choppa Boys are useable now (Free Stikkbombs, mini-fleet, and Run/Charge are a huge buff,) and our Relics are fun while not being OP. (I doubt I'll ever play an Ork Game without one, but never the same one.)
Our characters are definitely our forte. We don't have anyone with Chapter Master level power, but we can get huge buffs or deadly beasts for reasonable prices. Big Meks provide invulns or else cause hefty damage, Painboys are excellent all around, and a couple of Warbosses on bikes are wrecking balls that can vaporise tanks and non-CC enemies in seconds.

Do I wish Ghazzy was either stronger or not a LoW? Yeah. Do I wish Cyborks gave an invuln? Yeah. But all in all, it's an improvement.

Dragonzord wrote:

scimitar wrote:

Dragonzord wrote:

 WarOne wrote:

Dragonzord wrote:

 Ravenous D wrote:

What Orks needed was the army wide FNP

hahahaha. no. just no.

Necrons maybe. But Orks no.

imagine 180+ boyz with FNP... god that would be the most broken thing ever.

Its not broken at all. Iron hands marines get 6+ FNP as a chapter tactic without being even close to OP.

Do iron hands get 6 point models in large numbers?

1. Necrons with FNP would be very fluffy, and awesome. As well as having the HQs having IWND. Sadly, It would never happen.
2. The Orks getting a FNP 6+ would not have been that bad. And you can't compare Orks to Iron Hands. Are Orks the same as Veterans on Bikes with a 3+/3++ and FNP 6+ with Grav guns? No, not even close. Plus, a Battle cannon would still ruin their day.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Overlord Thraka wrote:
I think the dex, (while not great) isn't as terribad as people have been be-moaning it to be. I see some actual use of Unbound here. (Without bringing 10-riptide list bullgak) Mek gunz look cool. The Killkannon went down by essentially 10 points so that's a small plus. Tanksbustas are useable now. As are Buggies. Deffcoptas got quite a bit better and the Orktifacts are pretty nice.

All in all, not TOO bad. But still not great. I just hope Tau gets this treatment. (Heh heh heh...)

Here's to Tau and Eldar getting the Tyranid/Ork treatment! *holds up glass*

But no, the codex is by no means that BAD. It's still very playable, it's just, some of the changes they did were just weird, and it's less flavorful.

Prks almost DID get armywide FNP in the new Painboy. Having played it I can assure everyone that it definitely makes a huge difference to have painboyz in big Boyz blobs.

 Multimoog wrote:

blaktoof wrote:
in 7th you don't pick your warlord from the HQs in a specific detachment.

You pick your Warlord, and your warlords detachment becomes your primary detachment.

Unless there is a rule stating "your warlord may not be from this detachment" or "this model must be your warlord if you take it in your army" you can make any HQ the warlord.

Since I don't have the Ghaz supplement on hand, I'm still going on secondhand accounts and didn't know whether or not the Green Tide formation required that unit's Warboss to be your Warlord. I usually make my Ork Warlord be a Big Mek w/SAG on a backfield Skyshield in a unit of Kannons stuffed with extra grot crew to make it difficult for my opponent to score Slay the Warlord (4++, T7, tons of Look Out Sir)

As I said before, the formation warboss does not have to be the warlord, but he does need to be the warlord if you want to use the stampede special rule (waaagh every turn). It says in the formation under stampede "If the formations warboss is your warlord you may call a waaagh each and every turn after the first"

 Billagio wrote:

 Multimoog wrote:

blaktoof wrote:
in 7th you don't pick your warlord from the HQs in a specific detachment.

You pick your Warlord, and your warlords detachment becomes your primary detachment.

Unless there is a rule stating "your warlord may not be from this detachment" or "this model must be your warlord if you take it in your army" you can make any HQ the warlord.

Since I don't have the Ghaz supplement on hand, I'm still going on secondhand accounts and didn't know whether or not the Green Tide formation required that unit's Warboss to be your Warlord. I usually make my Ork Warlord be a Big Mek w/SAG on a backfield Skyshield in a unit of Kannons stuffed with extra grot crew to make it difficult for my opponent to score Slay the Warlord (4++, T7, tons of Look Out Sir)

As I said before, the formation warboss does not have to be the warlord, but he does need to be the warlord if you want to use the stampede special rule (waaagh every turn). It says in the formation under stampede "If the formations warboss is your warlord you may call a waaagh each and every turn after the first"

Not being able to Waaagh every turn isn't a huge deal with GT. You need to be in charge range of something to use it anyway, and by the time you are, you'll be able to spread boyz out so they'll be in range to charge something else on subsequent turns.

Waaaghpower wrote:
I agree with Overlord Thraka. I'm not fond of all the changes and I definitely miss our old Mob Rule, but there were enough positibe changes to compensate for this. Our Speed Freaks got vastly better, Choppa Boys are useable now (Free Stikkbombs, mini-fleet, and Run/Charge are a huge buff,) and our Relics are fun while not being OP. (I doubt I'll ever play an Ork Game without one, but never the same one.)
Our characters are definitely our forte. We don't have anyone with Chapter Master level power, but we can get huge buffs or deadly beasts for reasonable prices. Big Meks provide invulns or else cause hefty damage, Painboys are excellent all around, and a couple of Warbosses on bikes are wrecking balls that can vaporise tanks and non-CC enemies in seconds.

Do I wish Ghazzy was either stronger or not a LoW? Yeah. Do I wish Cyborks gave an invuln? Yeah. But all in all, it's an improvement.

Not to harp on about this but bikes got cheaper, yes, but lost objective secured which is a huge rule. There are a lot of positives in the book. The negatives are mostly about being able to build an army you like/ already had built and still have it be legal.

And the answer of 'just play unbound' isn't an answer. The codex must work in the context of the core rules/ rules as they are going to be played first and then be built out from there. Plus, even if someone does allow you to play unbound who then doesn't bring 8 Riptides or something back, you're going to lose over half the missions because no one in your army can hold an objective. Why should you be punished like that?

Why should you get got because you wanted to bring an army you used to be able to bring?

 Celtic Strike wrote:

Waaaghpower wrote:
I agree with Overlord Thraka. I'm not fond of all the changes and I definitely miss our old Mob Rule, but there were enough positibe changes to compensate for this. Our Speed Freaks got vastly better, Choppa Boys are useable now (Free Stikkbombs, mini-fleet, and Run/Charge are a huge buff,) and our Relics are fun while not being OP. (I doubt I'll ever play an Ork Game without one, but never the same one.)
Our characters are definitely our forte. We don't have anyone with Chapter Master level power, but we can get huge buffs or deadly beasts for reasonable prices. Big Meks provide invulns or else cause hefty damage, Painboys are excellent all around, and a couple of Warbosses on bikes are wrecking balls that can vaporise tanks and non-CC enemies in seconds.

Do I wish Ghazzy was either stronger or not a LoW? Yeah. Do I wish Cyborks gave an invuln? Yeah. But all in all, it's an improvement.

Not to harp on about this but bikes got cheaper, yes, but lost objective secured which is a huge rule. There are a lot of positives in the book. The negatives are mostly about being able to build an army you like/ already had built and still have it be legal.

And the answer of 'just play unbound' isn't an answer. The codex must work in the context of the core rules/ rules as they are going to be played first and then be built out from there. Plus, even if someone does allow you to play unbound who then doesn't bring 8 Riptides or something back, you're going to lose over half the missions because no one in your army can hold an objective. Why should you be punished like that?

Why should you get got because you wanted to bring an army you used to be able to bring?

To be fair, Orks don't get Objective Secured anyways. Want to get the Hammer of Wrath on big charges thing? No Objective Secured. Want to take any Ork FOC? No Objective Secured. If you're using the Ork setup at all, you're not getting Objective Secured.
I certainly wish we could take Warbikers as troops, just for the sake of bringing a Speed Freaks army that doesn't use unbound (Since I know a lot of people refuse to play Unbound because they only allow some of the rules to matter), but it's not an insurmountable problem. Clearly, GW is pushing players into using Unbound for fluffy lists, for better or worse.
Then again, you can always use Forge World rules and get Warbikers as troops anyways.