Hopefully with your help you will like the case and trays and possibly the stretch goals and fund them. I aim to be the cheaper solution for as many gamers as possible and offering more for less!
Please feel free to ask any questions and I will do my best to answer them.
Again thanks for reading and hopefully we can make this happen!
Right now I'm leaning towards a case that is a better fit for Infinity models with all their little fiddly bits, but this looks like an economical mass storage solution.
I'll post this over on the comments section as well
Backed, I'll need the full size pick and pluck to stay in though! I did not see it on the KS page, but how do we select the trays? Whats the maximum thickness we can have? The dimensions of the case displayed, are they for the inside or outside?
I think you need some top foam for that, otherwise the top layer will be rubbing on cardboard.
Also, the tray depths could be a bit deeper on the infantry. 30mm minimum, and ideally a bit more. Your photos illustrate why - a good number of the figures are sticking out over the top while on their backs. That's going to get pieces bent when more weight goes on top, and cause them to get snagged more. 40k uses 25mm bases as standard, and more and more games are moving to 30mm bases for regular infantry. At 23mm depth, only the smallest WHFB figs are going to fit (for 28mm scale anyways)... at least those are the only games I can think of that use 20mm.
Right now I'm leaning towards a case that is a better fit for Infinity models with all their little fiddly bits, but this looks like an economical mass storage solution.
Thank you very much, and I appreciate it. Thanks again for locking the other thread.
Hopefully I will be able to do a double case (like before) and a quad case but that would be in the distant future.
Eldarain wrote: Looks promising. I'm in. Best of luck with your Kickstarter.
Thank you, and thanks for your pledge, hopefully you will like them.
overtyrant wrote: I'll post this over on the comments section as well
Backed, I'll need the full size pick and pluck to stay in though! I did not see it on the KS page, but how do we select the trays? Whats the maximum thickness we can have? The dimensions of the case displayed, are they for the inside or outside?
Thanks.
Thanks! I have replied to you on KS but I'll do it here also.
All the dimensions for the trays are at the bottom of the stretch goal section Pick and Pluck Tray = 23mm/35mm/45mm/55mm/65mm/100mm/120mm depths
I think you need some top foam for that, otherwise the top layer will be rubbing on cardboard.
Also, the tray depths could be a bit deeper on the infantry. 30mm minimum, and ideally a bit more. Your photos illustrate why - a good number of the figures are sticking out over the top while on their backs. That's going to get pieces bent when more weight goes on top, and cause them to get snagged more. 40k uses 25mm bases as standard, and more and more games are moving to 30mm bases for regular infantry. At 23mm depth, only the smallest WHFB figs are going to fit (for 28mm scale anyways)... at least those are the only games I can think of that use 20mm.
That's a really snazzy logo by the way!
Best of luck!
Hello there,
The cases come with a 5mm topper.
The pictures with the Orks are a problem for the 56 Infantry Tray because of the arms sticking out, but they fit marine equivalents very nice. I can make them 30 depth though (as you say) but you'd only be able to get 4 of them in the case at 30mm depth plus 5mm support sheet. Those two trays were mainly created for 40k/fantasy and to be adapted to other systems but I believe my stretch goal trays should do the trick?
_____
Again thanks all for the kind words of support.
As to the logo I appreciate the feedback I'm trying to make myself standout from the other competitors.
If anyone could give feedback on the stretch goals that would be awsome.
Thanks for the reply, so what are the internal dimensions of the case, in other words, how many mm's do we get out of it? Do the trays depths include the 5mm base?
I'm a little nervous about your international shipping charges. 6 quid seems very low for what will potentially be very large boxes.
I'd only be interested in the 30 mm depth for any sort of infantry, I have too many models with 'dynamic posing' to make the shallower depth practical.
The trays depths don't include the 5mm base tray. I'm on my phone at the moment but I will move te tray dimensions above the stretch goals when I'm home.
Cheers!
Automatically Appended Next Post:
plastictrees wrote: I'm a little nervous about your international shipping charges. 6 quid seems very low for what will potentially be very large boxes.
I'd only be interested in the 30 mm depth for any sort of infantry, I have too many models with 'dynamic posing' to make the shallower depth practical.
Hello,
When I was selling the double cases they were £35 each to send, these half cases are a lot cheaper (I don't have post quotes at hand) but the £3 each box will help. I would rather make a small margin so players world wide get these cases so don't worry :p
I assume we'll be able to pick any combination of trays to a total of 150mm per case, base sheets and topper included?
This is my first kickstarter so I'm not sure how to do it, but I don't see a problem with it.
If in doubt I will do it where people from here can send me a PM with which trays they want and I can do the deal.
Cheers!
Automatically Appended Next Post: Just finished the first 24 hours of the campaign and already raised £2,724 and 9 stretch goals unlocked. Just another 19 days to go.
These cases are exactly what i have been looking for. I need to check if thows dimentions will fit in my assault pack. The modle storage to price ratio on these things are perfect.
Lockark wrote: These cases are exactly what i have been looking for. I need to check if thows dimentions will fit in my assault pack. The modle storage to price ratio on these things are perfect.
Thank you for your support, really appreciate it!
I'd just like to thank everyone who has supported this campaign so far. All stretch goals have been smashed and funding at nearly £4k in under 48 hours. With 18 days to go I do hope other gamers get in on this because you're getting a great deal compared to other competitors.
Mutter wrote: Interesting project.
For someone, who uses KR Multicases, can you outline where the advantages of your case lie?
I haven't really tried any different ones, and the KR cases (carton) are very similarly priced to those new ones.
Genuinely (sp?) curious about possible differences ...
Cheers, M.
Sure thing - Just to preface first these are my opinions from using some of their trays and not a bash to them.
KR charge £25 for a standard loadout, I will be charging £20-22 UK and £22-4 international (these are just estimates for after my kickstarter but they won't be higher than KR's).
With their case you get 4x28mm trays, mine you will get 5x28mm trays. From looking at their products the most their trays can hold are 50 space marine equivalents (I could be wrong on this). Mine can hold 60. This means their case can hold 200 marines and mine can hold 300 marines. Again another big saving and price slot is a very big deal
The foam used for my trays are much stronger than their blue ones, and will be cheaper.
So you get an initial saving and it increases with every purchase.
One of my main goals when starting this was to be cheaper than KR be it in price or more bang for your buck and offer more. If I fail at doing that then there's no point me carrying on.
Regarding the 50mm/40mm/60mm circle base trays, will there be pluckfoam at the edges so you can cut out angles to better keep your figures? WMH player and sometimes parts just jut out from the base for the models. Especially cavalry
Sining wrote: Regarding the 50mm/40mm/60mm circle base trays, will there be pluckfoam at the edges so you can cut out angles to better keep your figures? WMH player and sometimes parts just jut out from the base for the models. Especially cavalry
When the press cuts are made I will try it out, if it works then sure why not.
As a side note I'm going to buy the X-Wing game today and workout some trays for the kickstarter.
For Dreadball, do players need the case to store the board too or just the models, templates?
i would love trays for Xwing. However, unless you're certain it wouldn't delay the delivery date, I wouldn't try to do too many systems I guess? I rather this be on time than get it months later
Sining wrote: i would love trays for Xwing. However, unless you're certain it wouldn't delay the delivery date, I wouldn't try to do too many systems I guess? I rather this be on time than get it months later
Just bought X-Wing now and will start making some trays. Honestly rest assured I will be able to deliver by September, if it starts to get out of hand I will change the rewards
I'm liking the X-Wing stuff. I've been using a pick and pluck tray but it's all gone a bit wrong so far, so a shaped one would be good.
In saying that, you might be easiest providing a pick and pluck for the bigger ships because I don't think the ships are particularly consistent size / combination wise. I.e. There are 2 big Imperial Ships and 1 Rebel ship (IIRC) and you may have different numbers of them, whilst not being able to use the spaces for much else.
What I've done differently with mine is that I've cut a 50x50mm square for each ship, and above it I've gut a 50x25mm gap for the movement dial and base cards, so that I can keep the ship + dials together for ease of use. Doing that with your tray would reduce the tray to 4 x 5 ships, but if you were to put a mini divider in rows 2 and 4, allowing a partition for the ships cards but still allowing the customer to remove the partition for more ship storage, then you could get away with it. That would then let you further divide the longer spaces in the top tray to allow individual slots for different token types (focus, stress, etc), making them easier to use during the game.
I do like the extra cut-outs for the cards, that makes life a lot better.
Would you be able to have a generic card set half tray?
I'm thinking for Malifaux but it'd work for other games: space for a couple of decks (MF uses a playing deck + stat deck) of standard playing card sized cards, and a few spaces for tokens and dice etc. There are quite a lot of games using cards/tokens now, Bushido, Deads Mans Hand (I think), and so on.
I'm liking the X-Wing stuff. I've been using a pick and pluck tray but it's all gone a bit wrong so far, so a shaped one would be good.
In saying that, you might be easiest providing a pick and pluck for the bigger ships because I don't think the ships are particularly consistent size / combination wise. I.e. There are 2 big Imperial Ships and 1 Rebel ship (IIRC) and you may have different numbers of them, whilst not being able to use the spaces for much else.
I agree, pick and pluck can be tricky to deal with. I am merely trying to get rectangles which can handle most of the larger ships, so say the slot for the Millennium falcon can then hold a future released ship, same for the Slave 1 etc
Herzlos wrote: What I've done differently with mine is that I've cut a 50x50mm square for each ship, and above it I've gut a 50x25mm gap for the movement dial and base cards, so that I can keep the ship + dials together for ease of use. Doing that with your tray would reduce the tray to 4 x 5 ships, but if you were to put a mini divider in rows 2 and 4, allowing a partition for the ships cards but still allowing the customer to remove the partition for more ship storage, then you could get away with it. That would then let you further divide the longer spaces in the top tray to allow individual slots for different token types (focus, stress, etc), making them easier to use during the game.
That's a very good idea the problem is I need to fit 3 whole trays with only 140mm total depth and I'm trying to maximize what they can fit in it so they don't have to keep buying multiple cases for a board game.
Herzlos wrote: I do like the extra cut-outs for the cards, that makes life a lot better.
Would you be able to have a generic card set half tray?
I'm thinking for Malifaux but it'd work for other games: space for a couple of decks (MF uses a playing deck + stat deck) of standard playing card sized cards, and a few spaces for tokens and dice etc. There are quite a lot of games using cards/tokens now, Bushido, Deads Mans Hand (I think), and so on.
Do you mean make a whole tray for just cards? I only play 40k and I normally put the cards in the bag.
I agree, pick and pluck can be tricky to deal with. I am merely trying to get rectangles which can handle most of the larger ships, so say the slot for the Millennium falcon can then hold a future released ship, same for the Slave 1 etc
Hopefully they do all fit in a similar sized slot. I'll see if I can get my buddy to bring his ships over tonight and I'll measure them all for you.
That's a very good idea the problem is I need to fit 3 whole trays with only 140mm total depth and I'm trying to maximize what they can fit in it so they don't have to keep buying multiple cases for a board game.
Very true. I'm just not sure how many actual ships you'll need to fit on the small ship tray; you've got space for 30 ships in it without stacking, and that's a huge amount of ships (most games will be 4-6 a side with 10 a side being huge), so you probably don't need all of that space for the ship models and might be better adding space for stuff that scales up with the ships (like the movement dials) to keep the top tray for things that don't scale as much (dice and tokens).
Do you mean make a whole tray for just cards? I only play 40k and I normally put the cards in the bag.
Yup. Some other games are much more card heavy, and my current set up for them involves separate deck protector boxes [In Malifaux you need a playing deck each, and stat cards for each mini/upgrade which can be about half a deck, plus a series of 30/50mm markers (normally just empty bases) and status tokens], but it'd be nice to fit everything into a single case. A full try might be excessive but a half tray could prove quite handy. I have the same issue with Flames Of War, which involves a lot of different tokens and markers.
Hopefully they do all fit in a similar sized slot. I'll see if I can get my buddy to bring his ships over tonight and I'll measure them all for you.
Thanks I appreciate it, I have asked on my kickstarter but I just get "likes" lol
Herzlos wrote: Very true. I'm just not sure how many actual ships you'll need to fit on the small ship tray; you've got space for 30 ships in it without stacking, and that's a huge amount of ships (most games will be 4-6 a side with 10 a side being huge), so you probably don't need all of that space for the ship models and might be better adding space for stuff that scales up with the ships (like the movement dials) to keep the top tray for things that don't scale as much (dice and tokens).
Ah yeah, the slots do fit the flight stands and ship tokens if they don't fill them up with ships.
Herzlos wrote: Yup. Some other games are much more card heavy, and my current set up for them involves separate deck protector boxes [In Malifaux you need a playing deck each, and stat cards for each mini/upgrade which can be about half a deck, plus a series of 30/50mm markers (normally just empty bases) and status tokens], but it'd be nice to fit everything into a single case. A full try might be excessive but a half tray could prove quite handy. I have the same issue with Flames Of War, which involves a lot of different tokens and markers.
Would this be popular though? When I get the bags made they will have this feature, maybe players cut out divider walls for the cards in the mean time? I don't know if they'd buy the tray cards when the bags are made. I'm probably wrong about this as I don't know much about the games you mentioned.
Tyron wrote: Would this be popular though? When I get the bags made they will have this feature, maybe players cut out divider walls for the cards in the mean time? I don't know if they'd buy the tray cards when the bags are made. I'm probably wrong about this as I don't know much about the games you mentioned.
I have no idea how popular it'd be I'm just offering suggestions on what I'd find useful, on the assumption that I'm not that atypical. I just like having everything in the 1 case so I can grab it on the way to a game without spending ages trying to find all the bits. In theory it'd make my games cupboard less of a mess too.
Measurements for the big X-Wing ships I have (in mm, using a plastic caliper I got free from work, so I assume accuracy to be +/- 2mm):
Millenium Falcon: 130 (l) x 98 (w) x 37 (h)
Slave 1 : 83 x 79 x 32 (l)*
Lambda shuttle: 73 x 75 x 50 (w) *
*I can't remember which way I measured them. Lambda had the wings folded, and would fit on it's side and slave 1 on it's back.
Slave 1 and lambda could fit in the same slots but I've no idea what you'd have to do with the Falcon.
Tyron wrote: Would this be popular though? When I get the bags made they will have this feature, maybe players cut out divider walls for the cards in the mean time? I don't know if they'd buy the tray cards when the bags are made. I'm probably wrong about this as I don't know much about the games you mentioned.
I have no idea how popular it'd be I'm just offering suggestions on what I'd find useful, on the assumption that I'm not that atypical. I just like having everything in the 1 case so I can grab it on the way to a game without spending ages trying to find all the bits. In theory it'd make my games cupboard less of a mess too.
Measurements for the big X-Wing ships I have (in mm, using a plastic caliper I got free from work, so I assume accuracy to be +/- 2mm):
Millenium Falcon: 130 (l) x 98 (w) x 37 (h)
Slave 1 : 83 x 79 x 32 (l)*
Lambda shuttle: 73 x 75 x 50 (w) *
*I can't remember which way I measured them. Lambda had the wings folded, and would fit on it's side and slave 1 on it's back.
Slave 1 and lambda could fit in the same slots but I've no idea what you'd have to do with the Falcon.
Thanks for the dimensions. Would you be able to just double check please as I will be able to fit 1 falcon and 3 slave ones/shuttles (in the same compartment) if they're correct.
I have been away since Sunday but now so I couldn't upload the X-Wing trays but here they are. They will be done as a set for this kickstarter and after hopefully you will like them.
The Slave 1/Shuttle slot has been done so you can fit one or the other and designed so they will hold in the slot and not move around.
The Fighter Tray allows all the smaller ships and even B-Wings in the longer slots!
Please remember above the components tray the other 4 are half trays, and the pick and pluck may be replaced and the large ship tray increased if it allows stacking (need to test this when tray is made).
Please leave any feedback for them so I can tweak them if needed.
I have the prototype tray made for the components section of the X-Wing set. These photos were taking by the manufacturer but should illustrate to you what it can do. Hope you like them!
Can you make the small cards pocket a bit more snug? With the cut-outs at the side you should be able to make them exactly the same size as the small cards (like you've done with the big cards), which will stop them bouncing about when the case is lifted (as the handles on the side).
That'd then give you what looks like another 10mm+ for the asteroids bit.
I'd like to see the various token/stand sections subdivided a bit (even with thin/partially cut dividers so they can be easily removed) to keep the various tokens (focus,stress,evade,etc) separate so there's less rummaging, but that's a pretty minor thing.
Also I take it when the lid is closed, there's enough foam in the cases to essentially ensure the various compartments are sealed? The biggest issue I have with my current one is that I end up with tokens all over the place, though that's partially because I haven't glued the foam onto the base yet.
I saw you posted a comparison against KR cases earlier in the thread. I don't have any Battlefoam, but had been considering buying some, until I saw this thread. Can you comment on the advantages of your cases compared to Battlefoam?
I'll go the opposite direction and argue in favour of keeping the card slots nice and roomy: most of us sleeve our cards; that wouldn't fit in a 'taut' tray design. tight slots for cards would instantly make the tray useless to many players (and no, those sleeves are *not* coming off!). Your choice, obviously - but please leave the small card slot as is, and widen the larger slot slightly, instead
if they're sleeved they can bounce around to their hearts' desire, so to speak; they can stand that more or less forever. As much clearance as possible would be best, IMO: easier to get them out, and some sleeves might be larger than others. You don't need the protection anyway.
overtyrant wrote: Looking really good and I would snap some up.......if I played X-Wing lol!
I have other trays though if you're interests?
Herzlos wrote: Can you make the small cards pocket a bit more snug? With the cut-outs at the side you should be able to make them exactly the same size as the small cards (like you've done with the big cards), which will stop them bouncing about when the case is lifted (as the handles on the side).
That'd then give you what looks like another 10mm+ for the asteroids bit.
The small card slot is a bit bigger for people who put them in sleeves, bags and you should be able to stack them horizontally.
Herzlos wrote: I'd like to see the various token/stand sections subdivided a bit (even with thin/partially cut dividers so they can be easily removed) to keep the various tokens (focus,stress,evade,etc) separate so there's less rummaging, but that's a pretty minor thing.
The manufacturer took the pictures for me. He doesn't play any of the games so just filled up the slots for me to give an example. I have given the slots extra space for tokens in bags, cards in sleeves etc.
Herzlos wrote: Also I take it when the lid is closed, there's enough foam in the cases to essentially ensure the various compartments are sealed? The biggest issue I have with my current one is that I end up with tokens all over the place, though that's partially because I haven't glued the foam onto the base yet.
Yeah all the trays measure up to 140mm and then a 5mm topper so all sealed.
I saw you posted a comparison against KR cases earlier in the thread. I don't have any Battlefoam, but had been considering buying some, until I saw this thread. Can you comment on the advantages of your cases compared to Battlefoam?
Not to Bash BF or anything and to answer your questions. A few advantages from reading the description would be:
The box is white and dirt will be easier to see.
My case is bigger in length and width.
For a few more dollars you get more trays (which works out cheaper on a per slot bases).
When you invest in my product it will be a cheaper/more bang for buck solution with each purchase.
Hope that helps.
Bolognesus wrote: I'll go the opposite direction and argue in favour of keeping the card slots nice and roomy: most of us sleeve our cards; that wouldn't fit in a 'taut' tray design. tight slots for cards would instantly make the tray useless to many players (and no, those sleeves are *not* coming off!). Your choice, obviously - but please leave the small card slot as is, and widen the larger slot slightly, instead
I agree because you can use this tray for other games if you wanted and the bigger slot allows for different cards of those systems.
I try to make the trays be compatible with as many systems and possible and try very much to not do slots designed for one thing (excluding cards :p)
Bolognesus wrote: if they're sleeved they can bounce around to their hearts' desire, so to speak; they can stand that more or less forever. As much clearance as possible would be best, IMO: easier to get them out, and some sleeves might be larger than others. You don't need the protection anyway.
Exactly the cards wont be damaged and with enough space you can put the odd dice, token etc in there.
Since you can ask your production side to do prototypes, is it possible to have prototypes shown for the other foam types? Particularly the 40-50mm types? As a WMH player, I'm really interested to see what those look like
I'll see what they can do, he's currently making the other 20+ trays for me and sourcing out a different material for the case, so it will be later next week I think.
Hmmm, I need to check on this before the end! I am in need of a case. Do you have a size comparison shot of the case next to a person or similar, for an overall feel of the size?
Seems like good timing finding this. I recently got into 40K and I also collect X-wing. I have been looking for some reasonable storage solutions for awhile, and this looks pretty good. I will have to seriously consider this. I was going to get something at GenCon this year, but maybe this is the way to go. I will be watching this project.
Took a while to do it. I am thinking of getting a pet Mantis after this.
I highly recommend it, will be a great mascot. Here's my sexy devil, though still only a bit over an inch long as I found him as a baby 6 weeks ago.
Any chance of ordering something like 12-14 instead of 10 at the same price+shipping per item as the 10 case count? Locals are pretty keen on splitting an order.
Tyron wrote: I'll see what they can do, he's currently making the other 20+ trays for me and sourcing out a different material for the case, so it will be later next week I think.
vadersson wrote: Seems like good timing finding this. I recently got into 40K and I also collect X-wing. I have been looking for some reasonable storage solutions for awhile, and this looks pretty good. I will have to seriously consider this. I was going to get something at GenCon this year, but maybe this is the way to go. I will be watching this project.
Thanks,
Duncan
Hi Duncan,
Thanks for your interest in the kickstarter. I will be expanding the tray selection as time goes on so the trays in the stretch goals should hopefully be enough to suit everyones needs in the meantime
I highly recommend it, will be a great mascot. Here's my sexy devil, though still only a bit over an inch long as I found him as a baby 6 weeks ago.
Any chance of ordering something like 12-14 instead of 10 at the same price+shipping per item as the 10 case count? Locals are pretty keen on splitting an order.
That's a very small Mantis looks really cool. But the problem I have is they mostly live up to 6 months which is a shame :( I was thinking of getting the ghost one to start with.
Yeah if you pledge for 10 cases then you can keep buying more at the same price (£15 plus £3 shipping each).
quote=Bubbatron 605232 7077240 null]Plus an extra case for £3 - bargain ! Been looking at the kr cases for eldar and its given me a good guide what ill need !
The biggest concern for this project seems to be the low shipping cost which may bite you in the ass which in turn could bite us in the ass. I know you've addressed the concern by saying you'd like to get your product out there which is very admirable, but is there any chance you could confirm that you've investigated and are positive you can do it, especially internationally, at the prices you've listed? I was erring to "yes" because in general, UK prices include VAT, but for international buyers VAT isn't charged so it instead goes to subsidising shipping. That combined with the light weight and good form factor of the cases (nice clean cubiod) should make them lower cost overall, would like confirmation if possible.
Secondly, will shipping include outside padding to prevent damage to the outside of the cases, specifically corners? These cardboard cases will be fine with careful handling but will be more susceptible to damage if treated poorly than your typical hard cases. Shipping companies are often less than careful with their handling so it is a concern I'd like to know you've thought about and addressed.
Tyron, if you were interested in following other community discussions on your KS, here are a couple from Aussie forums: Westgamer where I arranged our group buy and WargamerAU which I started later but hasn't seen much discussion yet.
Yonan wrote: The biggest concern for this project seems to be the low shipping cost which may bite you in the ass which in turn could bite us in the ass.
I understand your concerns, however I have assured to many people I am using RM at the moment and their price calculator informs me it will cost £7.45 to ship each product which I factored into the price. I think a lot of people who have this concern are not used to startups/companies taking the majority of the shipping cost instead of letting customers take the hit, and make smaller margins.
I believe I can bring something to the table for wargamers and although my way of thinking is very different from the big 2, I will always try to get the balance right for all of us and with that approach it should put me up there with them and hopefully ahead. After all I don't create for me, I create for you
Yonan wrote: Secondly, will shipping include outside padding to prevent damage to the outside of the cases, specifically corners? These cardboard cases will be fine with careful handling but will be more susceptible to damage if treated poorly than your typical hard cases. Shipping companies are often less than careful with their handling so it is a concern I'd like to know you've thought about and addressed.
At the moment I am using bubble wrap but will look into alternative solutions. It will be quite a while before international backers get their cases (over 6000 trays to glue)which will give me time to find a good solution.
Yonan wrote: Tyron, if you were interested in following other community discussions on your KS, here are a couple from Aussie forums: Westgamer where I arranged our group buy and WargamerAU which I started later but hasn't seen much discussion yet.
Thanks for the links. I had a look and you have a good community going there, so I hope you all like the product.
bubber wrote: Updated my pledge to get another case.
1. After the KS is over, compile what trays backers ordered for what game systems. Myself, I haven't gotten around to determining which trays I would want for my various games, so haven't pledged. A "one click" solution would get us lazier backers to pledge!
2. Some major bulk-mini's KS this year that haven't shipped their mini's yet include CMON Zombicide 3, Mantic Dungeon Saga, Reaper Bones, Dwarven Forge, etc. Maybe discuss on company forums configurations for foam cases for storage needs.
3. Contact various companies to offer foam cases during their KS. Reaper had Outrider Hobbies make foam cases for them (although this didn't work out because of problems with glue).
Yeah I will do some compiling to help me with future products.
I hope you do pledge because you're getting some good deals (probably the best for cases out there) and wouldn't want you to miss out.
Some game companies/developers have approached me which is really nice and Reaper are aware of me, but I literally can't do anything until November because of the big orders, uni etc.
For the shipping; could you get away with thin plastic/ corrugated card corner pieces like you get on picture frames etc? It shouldn't add much weight or size, and should take most of the corner damage.
Over 30K, very nice! our group order is up to 18 cases for 11 people now. It'd probably be worthwhile for us to split the order in two for more freebies but ehh, too much hassle.
I just spotted the update saying if I want an extra case for the free trays I need to add £3, though I've already paid. There are enough free trays in a £40 pledge to fill another box now? If so, can I paypal you the missing £3 to top up my pledge?
Yeah it was time I sorted some proper storage these look like they'll work well ; ) I've placed my X-Wing order so I'll be picking up an X-Wing case too as they do look great. 30+ fighters, 4 large ships and all the tokens and stuff in one neat package. Shipping in Aus would kill the savings I imagine and I don't think any easties took up the suggestion of a group buy when I posted this on WAU.
This project had a shipping date of September 2014. I've still not recceived anything up to this point.
Yes, the creator is just a single guy and yes, there seemed to be a problem with the british post service (I'm German, so that really should not have any effect on me).
I asked him out and stated my displeasure.
He kicked me out of the project and refunded the money.
...
People tried to protect him with "he's my friend! He's a nice guy" Like I care?! He was/is building up a professional company and a company has to work in a professional way, otherwise it dies quite quickly.
You know, I really would've liked to get the cases. I never had any problems with the product, just the Kickstarter.
tl;dr
Kicking out and removing unpleased costumers is pityful.
The creator of the project asked for £1000. He stated he hoped to get to £3000. He ended up in the region of £35,000.
He is also 1 guy. He tried to hire help but had no luck. The warehouse he works out of was closed over the holidays.
He was both wildly successful and has had to work alone to fulfill. I don't fault him for being late.
How exactly did you "state your displeasure"? I'm not saying his attitude was entirely justified but I'm sure there's more to it than you present and doubt he told you to feth off simply for making an inquiry.
Jan Goldbeck about 9 hours ago
And I'd like to see the cases in my posession... It's taking way too long in my opinion. I know the success has been bigger than anticipated, but come on.
Creator Mantis Creations about 4 hours ago
You'll have to wait like everyone else Jan. I'm still resolving the City Link issue. Be patient. ..
Jan Goldbeck about 4 hours ago
That issue shouldn't effect me as a non UK costumer who has been waiting for 4 more months than orignally planed.
Mike Earley about 4 hours ago
I think a lot of this is out of Tyron's control. City Link for one, and his warehouse being closed during holiday for another. I haven't gotten my 2 cases in the US either, and I'm excited to get them, but I'm willing to be patient and trust Tyron. He is a friend of mine, I speak with him regularly, and basically he is constantly stressed about doing the right thing and making sure everything is taken care of properly, so just know his attention is on this as much as you want it to be.
Creator Mantis Creations about 3 hours ago
Appreciate it Mike. I know you and many others understand and trust me enough to be a patient with me.
Jan Goldbeck about 3 hours ago
He is not a friend of mine. He is a company I entrusted with my money for a September release. I understand that problems occurred, but I don't see that as a reason to be this late.
Again, he is not my friend. Why would you even mention that?
I've pledged for a good dozend kickstarters. Most of them have been late. I've stated my displeasure with all of them.
That still does not give creators the freedom to be late. It's your project, you set the timeframe, it's purely your responsibility to achive that goal.
So what would you have him do? Treat you as any more special than any other backer and put you to the front of the line? Businesses generally don't do that because it opens the floodgates for everyone else expecting the same result.
He has a system, is shipping product out and international/large orders are taking a back burner to domestic. I have no issue with that. We just have to be patient.
Well it's not ideal, but it's always a risk you take when you criticise a business owner, irrespective of who is right ot wrong he may not want to continue to do busniness with you
If exchanges in the comments (I can't see the updates) are anything to go he may well be very stressed with how (if at all) he can get a bunch of packages back from the now defunct courier city link
(this may well not be quick or cheap as stuff can be collected IF the customer or sender in near a depot and IF city link know where it is, but the administators are already selling off bits of the business and are unlikely to be able to provide anything for lost goods)
so giving you a refund may be the best way for him to deal with this as he's going to need time and patience from the backers that have still to get stuff as he tries to track down and retrieve stuff...
As a new firm there is probably not enough money to refund everybody if they all start asking for one so keeping the comments calm will be important
Alex C wrote: So what would you have him do? Treat you as any more special than any other backer and put you to the front of the line? Businesses generally don't do that because it opens the floodgates for everyone else expecting the same result.
He has a system, is shipping product out and international/large orders are taking a back burner to domestic. I have no issue with that. We just have to be patient.
Give me a fixed and final delivery date. Simpel as that.
Explain his situation to me, I might understand it better than.
I was patient for more than 4 months. I think that is quite a long time.
Again: Just because many other kickstarters are late IS NOT AN EXCUSE TO BE LATE.
Then the warehouse he was renting space at closed for the holiday.
Now the delivery company he was using went under.
Delivery is underway. He does not have a concrete delivery date for everyone because he has to deal with Citylink dissolving and rework his delivery plans. Previously he had stated that he was starting with the domestic/smaller orders and working through them.
To make things a little clearer for those outside of the UK. Citylink were a very large (if not the largest) parcel delivery company in the UK. A lot of international parcels are also sent from the UK via Citylink (they have agreement with companies in other countries to handle the local deliveries). I believe Mantis were using them for all deliveries. On Christmas Day they want into administration with a lot of undelivered parcels.
If Mantis shipped just before Christmas then the parcels will be in limbo for the moment and the same will apply if Mantis were awaiting a bult foam delivery which is now in a depot somewhere preventing them from making the next set of boxes.
I have backed the project and waiting for 3 boxes, was hoping to get them before Christmas so I could use my break to assemble my Shadows of Bristone figures so was a tiny bit disappointed about that but these things happen.
I expect any Kickstarter to be delayed by at least 6 months as most project creators are setting up a business for the first time and don't appreciate just how tricky and time consuming business can be.
The small criticism I would have is the project creator often posts a small update or make a comment to say that he will post a proper update that evening but then not post it for a few days but this is a young man studying at university and working on a pretty big project in his spare time. He is going to be running a zombicide suitable case kickstarter later in the year and I will definitely be back for it as long as I am happy with the quality of the boxes I receive (judging by the production photos and early reviews I hopefully will be).
I didn’t want a repeat like the other backer (10 case pledge) who was causing problems in the main comments section, the comments on the updates, through PM’s on the kickstarter and on another site. Despite me and other backers explaining to him endlessly he refused to listen or respond to me and kept accusing me I will never deliver the cases.
I explained to you the situation in the comments section but it wasn’t enough for you and I didn’t want another repeat so I gave you the refund. And from the PM’s you sent me I made the right choice.
I believe the problem you two share is that you ignore the fact I am a one man show. Whenever there’s a problem I have to drop everything to resolve it and therefore hinders the pace of the kickstarter.
To everyone else
The City Link issue as mentioned by the other posters here has brought me immense problems and resulted with the UK backers getting their cases postponed until the beginning of the month.
Obviously I would have liked to have delivered all the cases by now but with problems arising (explained in the updates) the backers have been understanding and very patient with me. They clearly understand what I’m going through and like my products enough to trust me. I would have loved to have some workers to accelerate this kickstarter but no one wanted the job. In retrospect I somewhat appreciate working alone as the trials during the course have gave me so much experience from lesions learned I would have most likely not gotten with assistance which I can now use in future kickstarters.
Believe me, I want to get all these cases out as much as you want them in your hands so I can do the Zcide kickstarter. I have the Zcide trays in front of me and players will be very surprised. And with the bags being developed backers from the first kickstarter will be delighted too.
I can’t wait to do my Zcide kickstarter, the 40K one and the others I have in development (quite a lot). Seriously you guys will love some of these and the innovations I’m bringing to the community.
Thanks again for the support in this thread and I’d be more than happy to answer any questions.
The small criticism I would have is the project creator often posts a small update or make a comment to say that he will post a proper update that evening but then not post it for a few days but this is a young man studying at university and working on a pretty big project in his spare time. He is going to be running a zombicide suitable case kickstarter later in the year and I will definitely be back for it as long as I am happy with the quality of the boxes I receive (judging by the production photos and early reviews I hopefully will be).
I understand this view completely and I am guilty of not posting the update on time. I like to reflect on everything during the week and then do the update Sunday night, but as you point out I have a lot of things going on. I aim to deliver the updates on time.
Wow... anytime someone is that defensive to the slightest criticism is a huge red flag to me.
Those comments were extremely tame! And even if they had not been (read them below in the spoilers for yourself) it is the right of backers to give criticism, as long as it is reasonable. To refund them months later the same amount without delivering means that you netted a decent amount of interest off of their pledge, as well.
Definitely not a fan of that approach... the comments in question are spoilered below. What company hasn't faced comments like this? Imo, this is about as far from a "trouble maker" as you can get...
Spoiler:
RoninXiC wrote: Jan Goldbeck about 9 hours ago
And I'd like to see the cases in my posession... It's taking way too long in my opinion. I know the success has been bigger than anticipated, but come on.
Creator Mantis Creations about 4 hours ago
You'll have to wait like everyone else Jan. I'm still resolving the City Link issue. Be patient. ..
Jan Goldbeck about 4 hours ago
That issue shouldn't effect me as a non UK costumer who has been waiting for 4 more months than orignally planed.
Mike Earley about 4 hours ago
I think a lot of this is out of Tyron's control. City Link for one, and his warehouse being closed during holiday for another. I haven't gotten my 2 cases in the US either, and I'm excited to get them, but I'm willing to be patient and trust Tyron. He is a friend of mine, I speak with him regularly, and basically he is constantly stressed about doing the right thing and making sure everything is taken care of properly, so just know his attention is on this as much as you want it to be.
Creator Mantis Creations about 3 hours ago
Appreciate it Mike. I know you and many others understand and trust me enough to be a patient with me.
Jan Goldbeck about 3 hours ago
He is not a friend of mine. He is a company I entrusted with my money for a September release. I understand that problems occurred, but I don't see that as a reason to be this late.
Again, he is not my friend. Why would you even mention that?
And 5 minutes later my pledge had been deleted.
Nothing there that would have gotten more than a "this is still what's happening" statement from most creators/companies/business people. This, and the public comments you made when people did not flock to fill the manual labor position you were advertising, are not a good way to approach customers, imo. It would be better not to respond, than to respond over the top (by deleting the pledge) or defensively, when the criticism is by no means unreasonable. Of course the campaign will struggle to deliver on time with the success it saw, so just say as much, and move on in the future!
This is completely different, I don't mind criticism or objective opinions, the problem is you're viewing this through a small portion of text. If you were a backer you would have seen the other guy who was causing problems, accusing me of all sorts, and it started off like RoninXiC and I don't want that again so I gave him a refund and then he showed his true colours in PM. This is no different than a store owner kicking out a trouble maker or Dakka banning a poster.
I also don't know where you're getting the idea I'm making interest from my decision, they get the full refund and I make nothing.
You should gather all the facts before accusing me of wrong doings.
So because some other guy started making a lot of trouble you kicked a second backer who had not actually done that "in case" he arced up to the same degree before he could do so?
No, that's bs.
Perhaps people shouldn't back your future KS or support your business before you have the opportunity to take their money and run?
No, he has all the information. You kicked me because you wanted to limit the amount of negativity in the comments. Seems you I made the right choice to voice my opinion. Some others have now come forward and voiced their own problems.
No one claimed you to have taken the money and done nothing with it. I myself clearly did never imply any of that.
What I said, is that I'm displeased with a project soon to be half a year late. Yes, I admitted that your project ran into quite some problems,but that does not free you of any responsibility to answer questions.
You claim to have answer all my information, but you clearly didn't. You could've given a timeframe, told me my position in line and a more or less fixed time of delivery. If you'd done so, I would've accepted another delay. But you didn't you were extremely unfriendly, even insulted my in a personal PM, and showed to me that you are not prepared to do this company thing as of yet.
I don't mean to harm you personally, let me clear that up. I don't know you and would see no point in attacking someone I have no information about. What I criticised was your way to treat your costumers.
Tyron wrote: Azazelx you have the same limited information as RiTides so your assertions are unfounded.
I don't see where I am taking money and running, but I do see you always coming into my threads and bring little to them.
I'm not actually accusing you of taking the money and running, nor of planning to. I'm simply using the same logic of "what might happen" that you used to kick him out of your campaign to show how ridiculous it is.
As for "always coming into your threads" and "bringing little to them." Really? Let's see.. you've started 40 threads.
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/recentTopics/showTopicsByUser/10223.page Let's see just how many I've replied in as from memory I've barely posted in any of your threads, but if you're expecting sycophancy for no real reason then I think you're in the wrong place. My replies:
Not sure what you're trying to suggest with your comments on the quality of my "always" posting in "your" threads? Well, four of them - out of eleven that deal specifically with selling your cases. That you only like fellative posts? Jokes not allowed in "your" threads?
So excepting these two current posts - I've posted 5 times in total over a time period of 4 months (the last being 4 months ago). Indeed, 1 asking about product, 2 jokes, 2 complimentary. Certainly nothing rude, and nothing unpleasant. Unfortunately now due to your combative and aggressive replies here, you've changed my opinion from someone who liked your products and may/probably would have have purchased some one day to someone who now actively dislikes you on a couple of levels. so I'll no longer be considering your products, and I'll probably point out your rudeness on my blog next time I mention Kickstarters - and perhaps in other threads that you start here.
You've just gone out of your way to be insulting, now I'll return the favour in my own way.
Tyron, I was serious in my advice above - as someone trying to run a business, you gain literally nothing by responding sarcastically or defensively to criticism. You'd be much better off not responding it all! Despite your sarcasm above, you will find that that does indeed occur - people avoiding a product because they don't like the attitude / customer interaction of the company / owner.
Why shoot yourself in the foot in this way? Simply apologizing for the delay, and saying you're doing the best you can given XYZ circumstances, is usually enough for people.
But canceling someone's pledge preemptively before they've said anything out of line, because they might do so in the future, and then coming into a forum to be combative about it, is just a no-win situation for you. I would avoid repeating this in the future, as this kind of interaction has zero upside for your business, and plenty of potential downside.
RiTides wrote: Tyron, I was serious in my advice above - as someone trying to run a business, you gain literally nothing by responding sarcastically or defensively to criticism. You'd be much better off not responding it all! Despite your sarcasm above, you will find that that does indeed occur - people avoiding a product because they don't like the attitude / customer interaction of the company / owner.
Why shoot yourself in the foot in this way? Simply apologizing for the delay, and saying you're doing the best you can given XYZ circumstances, is usually enough for people.
But canceling someone's pledge preemptively before they've said anything out of line, because they might do so in the future, and then coming into a forum to be combative about it, is just a no-win situation for you. I would avoid repeating this in the future, as this kind of interaction has zero upside for your business, and plenty of potential downside.
Agree entirely. I'm patiently waiting for my Mantis cases, along with a number of other KS's - I understand that delays happen. However, it's not great to see the creator of anything that I have handed over money for acting like this, and as a prospective customer, it is certainly something that would put me off from ever ordering from a company in the future.
The first backer I refunded started accusing me of having no intentions of sending out the cases when I started delaying due to problems arising.
In my updates I showed plenty of pictures with all the foam trays and boxes and ensured him they will be delivered. It wasn’t enough for him, he never responded to me and he kept making posts on the comments section and in the updates.
Eventually he asked for a refund and me and other backers tried to explain to him the reality of the situation. He then sent me PM’s on kickstarter and another website we go on but he never replied when I gave him an answer.
We (including the backers) got tired of this and I gave him the refund for his 10 case pledge and that was the end of it. Clearly he was wrong as I have sent out cases.
Now obviously you didn’t see any of this as you’re not a backer but the posters here on Dakka who are backers can confirm what happened.
The issue with RoniXiC was the red flags started showing after me and other backers explaining to him more than once the reality and it wasn’t enough for him. And I didn’t want to go through all that again and so gave him a refund. Out of 538 backers with 2 of them getting a refund that’s not bad in my books. I did feel bad refunding him but when RoniXiC sent me those colourful PM’s I knew I made the right decision.
As to your opinion on my response to Azazelx. The guy goes out of his way to snipe me when he could just walk away from the thread. He’s done this in another thread and in my opinion brought nothing but hostility (lack of a better word) towards me. And now he will expend more energy to defame me on his blog, it seems like he has a chip on his shoulder because from my memory I have hardly spoken to him.
Why waste your time and energy on a company you probably wasn’t going to buy from. That’s why I gave the sarcastic response, because I find what he does childish wasting whatever time he has on this earth doing this.
I believe I am experiencing what Romeo, Daryl and the others have gone through, but I don’t want to make the same decision and stop talking to the community.
As to your opinion on my response to Azazelx. The guy goes out of his way to snipe me when he could just walk away from the thread. He’s done this in another thread and in my opinion brought nothing but hostility (lack of a better word) towards me. And now he will expend more energy to defame me on his blog, it seems like he has a chip on his shoulder because from my memory I have hardly spoken to him.
Which other thread? Seriously? Check the links I posted above. I've posted in your threads five times before this, and they were quite positive.
I felt that you overreacted towards Ronin in this case and posted a reply that attempted to show you how ridiculous it was for you to kick him out of the campaign "in case he might" act like some other guy. You're acting ridiculous and immature here, and rather than apologising, you're doubling-down on the stupid. And so yeah, I am likely to use your own words and actions against you to point out (be careful with words like "defame", my son) how rude and immature you appear to be. If people choose to support someone who acts as you do, then good for them - but some of us - quite a lot, I imagine - will choose to do business with people who don't behave in the way you are choosing to.
So no chip, excepting the one that you just put there. My previous opinion on you before yesterday was generally neutral-to-positive, and as you've said, we've barely interacted. I thought that your cases looked good and that I'd possibly buy some one day. The only reason I didn't back your KS was because I didn't have the money at the time, and your Zombicide cases/foam certainly piqued my interest as well. Now you've just shat all over all that for no logical reason I can think of besides what I imagine is immaturity. It would be one thing to simply explain your PoV towards Ronin (which I disagree with, in case you haven't noticed) but to claim that I go into your threads and gak them up is patently ridiculous, as I've shown by going through your threads and picking out all of my posts - with links.
The lesson here is that as a business owner, especially a 1-man operation, you shouldn't go around insulting customers or potential customers - especially for no good reason.
Alex C wrote: Just wanted to report that I got my 10+1 case order in Michigan, USA today!
All present and correct, nice quality too. Slight damage to one box but not a big deal.
Cheers Mantis!
Glad you like them!
Would be nice to see what you put in the trays
They'll be filled with all manner of Warmachine, Hordes, 40k, Deadzone, Dreadball, Super Dungeon, Wolsung, Dungeon Saga, Strange Aeons, Shadows of Brimstone and Conan goodies
Dropzone Commander, X-Wing and Zombicide have their own storage already
Alex C wrote: Just wanted to report that I got my 10+1 case order in Michigan, USA today!
All present and correct, nice quality too. Slight damage to one box but not a big deal.
Cheers Mantis!
Glad you like them!
Would be nice to see what you put in the trays
They'll be filled with all manner of Warmachine, Hordes, 40k, Deadzone, Dreadball, Super Dungeon, Wolsung, Dungeon Saga, Strange Aeons, Shadows of Brimstone and Conan goodies
Dropzone Commander, X-Wing and Zombicide have their own storage already
Lots of stuff then, message me if you have any problems.
Yonan wrote: Looking forward to my groups order of 17. Only 3 for me though /cries
I'm working on the 10 cases pledges so you'll get them soon!
Was about to post tonights update but just realised it's marked as for backers only so guess it's a etiquette no no.
It does say that the Zombicide case kickstarter may start this week which in my mind is a shame as I was intending to back it but as it is looking like another 2-3 months until I receive my cases from the first Kickstarter I don't really want to be backing a second without being able to check the quality of the cases from my initial pledge especially as I have Zombicide 1-3 with all expansions and KS extras I would be putting quite a bit more money on the line.
The reviews are all positive and I am sure they will be excellent cases but there is something about seeing them for yourself before putting down another £100+ on top of the £45 pledged last year.
Starting a new one months before complete fulfilment of the previous one? It's annoying enough when places like Mantic and CMoN do it, but caveat emptor indeed when it's a one-man show doing the same and shifting their focus from fulfilling the outstanding stuff to bringing in new/more money...
Aye. I'm extremely wary of a second Kickstarter being run while I'm still waiting for my pledge to arrive. Having run a kickstarter myself, I know how much of your time running those 30 days takes up - answering questions, working up stretch goals etc means less packing and posting pledges.
I think development and running of new campaigns should be banned until previous campaigns are completed. Should be a rule of the kickstarter terms and conditions. It's just morally wrong.
I like the zombicide case but until I get my 10cases, I'm hesitant to put more money into any of your Kickstarters. But if you could have a $1 usd pledge that can be upgraded later on, that might be of interest to me
Alex C wrote: Best of luck Tyron, the cases I got were great!
Thank you Alex C, maybe you could do a little review/pics to reassure those who have doubts?
Eldarain wrote: Never a fan of a new Kickstarter going up before the previous one is finished.
Did you back my first one?
Sining wrote: I like the zombicide case but until I get my 10cases, I'm hesitant to put more money into any of your Kickstarters. But if you could have a $1 usd pledge that can be upgraded later on, that might be of interest to me
Quite a few backers have this concern and this is what I put in the comments as my reasoning behind my decision which I'll share here.
The reason I am doing the next kickstarter next week is by the time it's funded and I receive the funds I will have shipped out the remainder of the first kickstarter and I see it as a waste of two months doing nothing but wait for it to fund, therefore I must take this opportunity.
I know backers here will be hesitant about backing the next one due to half the backers not receiving their stuff yet, but check out all the comments of those who have received them. All positive and they're very pleased with what they got, and you wouldn't believe how many PM's I get on here and on the forums I go on asking when they can buy them because they missed out, they're worth the wait.
Eldarain wrote: Never a fan of a new Kickstarter going up before the previous one is finished.
I can understand it to an extent - these projects go in phases (idea, plans, manufacturing, packing, shipping), and this one is onto packing/shipping. I believe Tyron is designing the trays and getting them cut somewhere, so he can start that process off whilst finishing the packing/shipping of the last stuff, so there's less of a lag between this work finishing and the next batch turning up.
Of course it makes more sense with multi-staff companies (the designers are twiddling their thumbs once packing begins), but Tyron seems to know what he's doing and the next product is ready to go on kickstarter.
Hopefully most of the pledges will be turning up before the next one finishes funding though, for you to get some reassurance that it's all good.
I'm not put off by this one, I don't have Zombicide but if I can use the boxes for another game (I need stuff for Super Dungeon Explore) then I'll give it a go too.
Wait... two months ago I got kicked out of this project because I dared to ask when the missing pledged will be delivered.
Today, two months later, a maximum of 50% of pledges has been shipped?
Why the hell did I get kicked out if all I said was 100% true.
My main concern is that it has taken many months to get to that 50% delivered mark, but from what I understand, the other 50% will be delivered in the next 30 days while the new Kickstarter runs? If that happens, then great, I'll take my hat off to you, but I'm not optimistic.
Tyron has had multiple problems with employees, the facility he was operating from shut down over Christmas/New Year and the shipping company he was using went bankrupt, so the delays are quite understandable imho.
I can understand delays. Absolutely. I've no issue whatsoever with delays. I'm just struggling to see how running a second kickstarter will help get the rest of the pledges out. If anything, it takes the focus off getting the rest of the work done, when the inevitable questions are asked and need responding to, stretch goals need adding, the second ks requires updates etc.
I'd have possibly backed the second ks, had I seen my pledge from the first one yet, but as it is, there's no chance. I have no doubt tyron is an honest guy, with good intentions, but there's no way I'd back a second kickstarter when I haven't received the goods from the first, and suspect I'm not the only one.
Eldarain wrote: Never a fan of a new Kickstarter going up before the previous one is finished.
Did you back my first one?
Yes sir. Backer #2. My concerns are very much in line with what Eggs has brought up. This project has seemed to be a bit more than you were prepared to deal with and getting it completed has been trying. I don't see how adding the running of a second campaign will expedite the completion of the first.
I agree, and since you have a setup from the first campaign, it seems fulfilling it first shouldn't stop you from working on your new products immediately afterwards... it doesn't make sense to run a new campaign now before you've completed the first, and you will definitely take a PR hit and not raise as much as you would if you waited one more month and completed your current obligations.
Aeneades I've said in the ks comments I am still shipping daily so by the time this finishes you should get your stuff, not sure why people are forgetting this.
Apologies, I haven't seen the kickstarter comments this week. I have been going by the kickstarter update you sent out last weekend which estimated 2-3 months to finish shipping.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Sorry, the update I was referring to was last Tuesday rather then the weekend update.
No problem. Again the way I see it is I ship every thing out and then wait 2 months doing little while waiting for it to fund. Or ship everything while it's funding.
OK neutral observer here. I think the concern from people stems from:
It will take 2-3 months to ship previous KS New KS will be over 1 month.
This leaves, at the end of the new KS, a 1-2 month period where you should be working on the new KS but are still shipping the original KS.
People seem to be concerned that there will not only be a lack of focus on getting their original KS awards out but also a potential to add problems and delays to the new KS.
You probably need to adress these concerns in a matter of fact "heres what will happen" manner.
Also:
I said all this in depth in the updates. Doesn't anyone read them? Lol
Comes across as a little passive aggressive. Probably best not to poke the bear.
Tyron wrote:Aeneades I've said in the ks comments I am still shipping daily so by the time this finishes you should get your stuff, not sure why people are forgetting this.
contradicts this reply -
Tyron wrote:2 months 3 max (assuming problems) I said all this in depth in the updates. Doesn't anyone read them? Lol
Unless the Zombicide kickstarter is 3 months long then the first reply isn't correct. We read the updates but comments like this one are muddying the waters.
Aeneades wrote:I would be looking at spending £100 to get what I need and I just can't justify that without seeing my original rewards.
I have no doubt that the quality will be excellent based upon the initial reviews, it's just hard to justify it to myself.
Hopefully you will offer these sets on your webstore after so that I can pick one up then.
To which you replied -
Tyron wrote:Aeneades I've said in the ks comments I am still shipping daily so by the time this finishes you should get your stuff, not sure why people are forgetting this.
As shown above, my original concern was that I couldn't justify spending another £100+ on the new kickstarter until I had seen the quality of my original kickstarter boxes for myself. I was not concerned about you running a second kickstarter before posting out all rewards from first one. Your reply states that by the time this (new kickstarter) finishes I should have my boxes.
Tyron wrote:There's no contradiction.
s2 is funded, funds received and forms submitted takes 2 months by then ks1 shipments are out and then I work on ks2.
As detailed above there is a contradiction or at least some poor phrasing in your reply to me as it does imply that all orders should be sent before the close of the new campaign. This is why people are getting confused.
It takes about two weeks for the funds to clear, and I'd be surprised if surveys take two months. And the fact you will have to create the surveys in the first place, means you aren't packing and shipping ks 1. That's where my concern comes from.
While from all indications you make excellent foam cases you need to work on your PR.
As someone whose entire business model is based on money up front for eventual product in an indeterminate amount of time how you conduct yourself is of utmost importance.
I don't feel valued as a customer by the way you address concerns.
I will be submitting the kickstarter very shortly tonight so please take one final look.
I've made some updates on the information on the trays and listened to requests so I've added 23 and 30mm pick and pluck foam to the Zombie Horde loadouts.
If you spot anything wrong please point it out or any questions feel free to ask as I'll be submitting this soon.
Thanks
Eldarain wrote: While from all indications you make excellent foam cases you need to work on your PR.
As someone whose entire business model is based on money up front for eventual product in an indeterminate amount of time how you conduct yourself is of utmost importance.
I don't feel valued as a customer by the way you address concerns.
I was reply on my mobile so I tried to keep them short. I will do earnest replies soon.
Aeneades wrote:I would be looking at spending £100 to get what I need and I just can't justify that without seeing my original rewards.
I have no doubt that the quality will be excellent based upon the initial reviews, it's just hard to justify it to myself.
Hopefully you will offer these sets on your webstore after so that I can pick one up then.
To which you replied -
Tyron wrote:Aeneades I've said in the ks comments I am still shipping daily so by the time this finishes you should get your stuff, not sure why people are forgetting this.
As shown above, my original concern was that I couldn't justify spending another £100+ on the new kickstarter until I had seen the quality of my original kickstarter boxes for myself. I was not concerned about you running a second kickstarter before posting out all rewards from first one. Your reply states that by the time this (new kickstarter) finishes I should have my boxes.
Tyron wrote:There's no contradiction.
s2 is funded, funds received and forms submitted takes 2 months by then ks1 shipments are out and then I work on ks2.
As detailed above there is a contradiction or at least some poor phrasing in your reply to me as it does imply that all orders should be sent before the close of the new campaign. This is why people are getting confused.
For backers, when it "finishes" is when the project is funded and the money is taken out of their accounts. Not "2-3 months later" or when KS releases funds to you. Also, adding a lol to the end of a customer's question along with the "doesn't anyone read them?" is pretty snide when it's your own poor communication creating the confusion.
I think people are being just a little hostile here. While I would have loved to have my cases in hand for a while now, delays happen. The timescale for shipping out the rest of the cases and the timing of the new KS seems reasonable to me.
And backer surveys typically run for a while to allow people time to respond, during which time there is not always a great deal to do if you are waiting on numbers to put in orders.
No, not really. People voiced their concerns and said they're not likely to back this one until they have their outstanding items in hand.
Reply from Mantis was that they would have their stuff in hand by the time this one ends, and also that it would be 2-3 months. People suggest that these replies are contradictory, and Mantic asks doesn't anyone read my updates? lol And that "by the time this one finishes" now means after the new campaign's fundraising period ends - neatly missing the entire point in the previous paragraph.
Le shrug. I'm not out to fight either corner. I just feel maybe people might like to go outside and look at some sunshine before coming back to this thread.
I remember Tyron's attitude to questions way, way back when he first started a "would you be interested in cases" thread. I saw it as a huge red flag over any of his projects and I'm glad I stayed away now!
I was only in to the first KS for a single case, and until that turns up, so I can assess the quality for myself, there's not a chance I'm backing a second one. I think it's going to be the same for a lot of people, especially if you aren't going to have everything shipped out until a month after your second KS closes.
SilverMK2 wrote: Le shrug. I'm not out to fight either corner. I just feel maybe people might like to go outside and look at some sunshine before coming back to this thread.
It's lovely outside here lately. I've spent a good amount of time out there as well.
Doesn't change the points of discussion here any, though.
Sining wrote: I like the zombicide case but until I get my 10cases, I'm hesitant to put more money into any of your Kickstarters. But if you could have a $1 usd pledge that can be upgraded later on, that might be of interest to me
I understand your stance completely. I'm hoping you saw the latest update on the shipping, and have faith in me and my products. I just don't want anyone to miss out.
Eldarain wrote: Never a fan of a new Kickstarter going up before the previous one is finished.
I can understand it to an extent - these projects go in phases (idea, plans, manufacturing, packing, shipping), and this one is onto packing/shipping. I believe Tyron is designing the trays and getting them cut somewhere, so he can start that process off whilst finishing the packing/shipping of the last stuff, so there's less of a lag between this work finishing and the next batch turning up.
Of course it makes more sense with multi-staff companies (the designers are twiddling their thumbs once packing begins), but Tyron seems to know what he's doing and the next product is ready to go on kickstarter.
Hopefully most of the pledges will be turning up before the next one finishes funding though, for you to get some reassurance that it's all good.
I'm not put off by this one, I don't have Zombicide but if I can use the boxes for another game (I need stuff for Super Dungeon Explore) then I'll give it a go too.
When you see the next Kickstarter it's a very straightforward linear campaign so I should only need to reply to a few comments each night (in theory). I did do a new update and explained how the first Kickstarter is manageable while doing the next.
Yes sir. Backer #2. My concerns are very much in line with what Eggs has brought up. This project has seemed to be a bit more than you were prepared to deal with and getting it completed has been trying. I don't see how adding the running of a second campaign will expedite the completion of the first.
Please check my latest update, it explains everything and give a better picture for backers.
Aeneades wrote: I would be looking at spending £100 to get what I need and I just can't justify that without seeing my original rewards.
I have no doubt that the quality will be excellent based upon the initial reviews, it's just hard to justify it to myself.
Hopefully you will offer these sets on your webstore after so that I can pick one up then.
I understand your stance and it's a reasonable one. I do hope you've checked out the latest update though.
As for the webstore. It will be in the distant future when I have a worker dedicated to online sales.
Pete Melvin wrote: OK neutral observer here. I think the concern from people stems from:
It will take 2-3 months to ship previous KS New KS will be over 1 month.
This leaves, at the end of the new KS, a 1-2 month period where you should be working on the new KS but are still shipping the original KS.
People seem to be concerned that there will not only be a lack of focus on getting their original KS awards out but also a potential to add problems and delays to the new KS.
You probably need to adress these concerns in a matter of fact "heres what will happen" manner.
I did a massive update explaining everything in detail. The problem here is I did my replies on the phone and try to be concise and straight forward and can come across as aggressive and should never be taken that way. The update has cleared the air and backers seem receptive to the next Kickstarter and have been very supportive.
I said all this in depth in the updates. Doesn't anyone read them? Lol
Comes across as a little passive aggressive. Probably best not to poke the bear.
This was meant to be a smiley face, I was on my phone and the predictive text replaced it with a "lol".
SilverMK2 wrote: I think people are being just a little hostile here. While I would have loved to have my cases in hand for a while now, delays happen. The timescale for shipping out the rest of the cases and the timing of the new KS seems reasonable to me.
And backer surveys typically run for a while to allow people time to respond, during which time there is not always a great deal to do if you are waiting on numbers to put in orders.
Thank you for your patience. I had a backer come to the warehouse today and he saw the scale I have to deal with and the little room I have to work around and he was very impressed with how I'm dealing with it. People's minds paint a picture from the information given to them online based on what I post. But if you could see it for real like the backer did, his opinion changed and unfortunately I can't give everyone that experience with my words.
Riquende wrote: I remember Tyron's attitude to questions way, way back when he first started a "would you be interested in cases" thread. I saw it as a huge red flag over any of his projects and I'm glad I stayed away now!
But when you see them in the flesh will you still have that resolve? That's the real test.
grrrfranky wrote: I was only in to the first KS for a single case, and until that turns up, so I can assess the quality for myself, there's not a chance I'm backing a second one. I think it's going to be the same for a lot of people, especially if you aren't going to have everything shipped out until a month after your second KS closes.
You will be impressed when you get it. Not one bad review on the quality so far. As you know from the latest update I am trying to get them out quickly.
The update made perfect sense and hopefully reassured all the backers (I'm one too) that the original KS cases will be done before you work on the new one.
My only problem - as one of the 170 awaiting a 2(+1) pledge, is that there is a really good chance I won't have my cases till after the window for pledging on the 2nd KS has ended. I would (as others) like to see the quality before I order a large amount of more cases.
I was hoping you'd go with some form of web store so people could order more of the same type (1st KS type cases/foam) at some point in the future.
At work so not been able to check them out yet but my order for 3 boxes arrived today. I guess tomorrow is now going to be taken up with assembling Shadows of Brimstone now.
I like the look of this companies product. I'm not so thrilled by their customer communications, having just read the thread.
Working on the basis that the owner is a highly stressed university student who's run into several headaches not directly caused by him, I can empathise with his frustrations. I do think it is important however, not to let those frustrations be vented on your customer base. Touchiness towards the hand that feeds can only backfire.
Case in point, I saw that product and mentally noted it for my next case purchase. I read this thread, and am now having second thoughts and considering going back to KR. Because I feel that if I ran into any problems, the business owner would treat me like a nuisance.
Gimgamgoo wrote: The update made perfect sense and hopefully reassured all the backers (I'm one too) that the original KS cases will be done before you work on the new one.
My only problem - as one of the 170 awaiting a 2(+1) pledge, is that there is a really good chance I won't have my cases till after the window for pledging on the 2nd KS has ended. I would (as others) like to see the quality before I order a large amount of more cases.
I was hoping you'd go with some form of web store so people could order more of the same type (1st KS type cases/foam) at some point in the future.
Thanks for your support and from the KS comments you received yours on Friday. How are they?
Aeneades wrote: At work so not been able to check them out yet but my order for 3 boxes arrived today. I guess tomorrow is now going to be taken up with assembling Shadows of Brimstone now.
I look forward to your feedback. I've also been asked to do a set for SoB which I'm looking into.
Ketara wrote: I like the look of this companies product. I'm not so thrilled by their customer communications, having just read the thread.
Working on the basis that the owner is a highly stressed university student who's run into several headaches not directly caused by him, I can empathise with his frustrations. I do think it is important however, not to let those frustrations be vented on your customer base. Touchiness towards the hand that feeds can only backfire.
Case in point, I saw that product and mentally noted it for my next case purchase. I read this thread, and am now having second thoughts and considering going back to KR. Because I feel that if I ran into any problems, the business owner would treat me like a nuisance.
I'm not sure where this is coming from unless you're getting your info from Azazelx which should be ignored as he only gets his information from one side and ignores mine, and he generally likes to try and cause problems for me. I have admitted repeatedly my communication needs to improve in terms of responding to questions (which it has). Once I get a big bigger and can higher some staff I'll have more time to focus on the customer server but as of now I'm juggling all the roles and responsibilities and there's only so many hours in the day.
I've never seen my backers as a "nuisance". If you had backed my first KS you would see in the updates and comments how much I care about them, which is also shown in the tray designs and every backer whose received them have been very pleased with the products.
I do hope you'd consider trying out one of my products and not be deterred by a few rotten apples.
Ketara wrote: I like the look of this companies product. I'm not so thrilled by their customer communications, having just read the thread.
Working on the basis that the owner is a highly stressed university student who's run into several headaches not directly caused by him, I can empathise with his frustrations. I do think it is important however, not to let those frustrations be vented on your customer base. Touchiness towards the hand that feeds can only backfire.
Case in point, I saw that product and mentally noted it for my next case purchase. I read this thread, and am now having second thoughts and considering going back to KR. Because I feel that if I ran into any problems, the business owner would treat me like a nuisance.
I'm not sure where this is coming from unless you're getting your info from Azazelx which should be ignored as he only gets his information from one side and ignores mine, and he generally likes to try and cause problems for me. I have admitted repeatedly my communication needs to improve in terms of responding to questions (which it has). Once I get a big bigger and can higher some staff I'll have more time to focus on the customer server but as of now I'm juggling all the roles and responsibilities and there's only so many hours in the day.
I've never seen my backers as a "nuisance". If you had backed my first KS you would see in the updates and comments how much I care about them, which is also shown in the tray designs and every backer whose received them have been very pleased with the products.
I do hope you'd consider trying out one of my products and not be deterred by a few rotten apples.
I'm literally going off of the impression created by this thread. I've had no communications with anyone else, and hadn't even heard of the Kickstarter until I clicked page 1 here.
I've worked in customer service, and know that you always get one of 'those customers', the ones who are never satisfied, cause endless trouble, and generally make your day a hassle and a headache. I couldn't say if what happened with that Ronin chap was a completely proportionate response or not. All I saw in this thread was an aggrieved ex-customer. That alone wouldn't necessarily have made me raise an eyebrow, but when you accused Azazelx of being a negative influence on your threads, he went back and dug out his posts and seems (I wouldn't know without manually triple checking myself) to have proved the opposite. But he was treated with a certain level of annoyance/contempt/dismissal that made me feel a little wary. Not so much that I just instantly wrote your product off, but enough so that I thought you might appreciate (as a businessman) being told of the effect that was being had.
I can only describe how your posting style has made you come across to me here, and I have no beef with you personally. I'm not a current customer or someone with a past chip on their shoulder, but rather a prospective customer. I like the look of your product, and I love your logo! But I think you need to be aware that engaging in a negative way online, even if you think its completely justified, can sometimes misfire (Romeo at Battlefoam anyone?).
As a piece of advice (take or leave as you will), a good way of doing things is the Wayland Games method. Don't argue online unless it is essential/defamatory, don't engage in any sort of personal comments about anyone, and offer to take any complaint resolution to email. Keep an upbeat vibe, and if you're too annoyed for that, just simply refrain from posting/responding altogether. It enrages some people, but it makes you come across as professional and friendly to most, and it avoids online slugging matches that only ever end detrimentally.
Of all the ones I've backed in the last couple of years, this is the first to actually deliver.
Exactly!
If I have got anything, it's been "wave 1" or otherwise missing stuff that I'm still waiting for. Mantis has been the only one to fully deliver, and all at once to boot.
The mailperson came to my house first on delivery day because all the cases were blocking her rear window
It really is a good product and I've not had any issues with Tyron. If I need more cases in the future I'll definitely do business with him again.
I'm literally going off of the impression created by this thread. I've had no communications with anyone else, and hadn't even heard of the Kickstarter until I clicked page 1 here.
I've worked in customer service, and know that you always get one of 'those customers', the ones who are never satisfied, cause endless trouble, and generally make your day a hassle and a headache. I couldn't say if what happened with that Ronin chap was a completely proportionate response or not. All I saw in this thread was an aggrieved ex-customer. That alone wouldn't necessarily have made me raise an eyebrow, but when you accused Azazelx of being a negative influence on your threads, he went back and dug out his posts and seems (I wouldn't know without manually triple checking myself) to have proved the opposite. But he was treated with a certain level of annoyance/contempt/dismissal that made me feel a little wary. Not so much that I just instantly wrote your product off, but enough so that I thought you might appreciate (as a businessman) being told of the effect that was being had.
I gave a full indepth explanation to RiTides which he didn’t respond to.
The main problem was RoninXiC made a public scene on Dakka and then some posters started to chime in as if informed on the matter, and continued on about it after the explanation. I can understand if they were RoninXiC but when they’re not backers and therefore didn’t see what he posted in the updates/comments, didn’t see his PM’s maybe they should take a step back and get all information before commenting. Just my opinion of course.
I like the look of your product, and I love your logo.
Thanks! If you ever read the comments on the Kickstarter everyone seems happy with the products. I have debated internally about removing the antennae but then I feel it would look like a hornet. I’m trying to go for a unique look to help standout in the gaming scene.
Also what is your gif referring to? I really like it!
But I think you need to be aware that engaging in a negative way online, even if you think its completely justified, can sometimes misfire (Romeo at Battlefoam anyone?)
I think this stems from him formally being in the Marines and taking no crap from people is understandable (from an objective POV), His buisness doesn't seem to be affected by previous actions here on Dakka.
This may come back at me one day but while I am developing my own products and going through the similar problems he faced in regards to design, development, production and so on when he started out but I look at his products and business and I admire what he's done, I admire what all the foam guys have done. It really isn't easy doing all this and I'd love to sit down with them and talk about our experiences going through all of this but due to what I am doing I doubt that it will ever happen.
You bring up a poignant observation. If we have a look on Dakka, how many from BF, KR or Feldherr post here? Infact how many game developers post here? None from what I’ve seen and I’m sure there’s a reason for it, but I’m not ready to join them just yet.
As a piece of advice (take or leave as you will), a good way of doing things is the Wayland Games method. Don't argue online unless it is essential/defamatory, don't engage in any sort of personal comments about anyone, and offer to take any complaint resolution to email. Keep an upbeat vibe, and if you're too annoyed for that, just simply refrain from posting/responding altogether. It enrages some people, but it makes you come across as professional and friendly to most, and it avoids online slugging matches that only ever end detrimentally.
I’ve noticed while this style works in answering questions to the few who ask, it tends to make the majority rage due to feeling ignored. This is purely anecdotal but I’ve seen this is many forums on different websites I frequent on.
I truly believe this stems from companies being forced to turn the other cheek while their customers give them a lot of flak and get offended if they receive any themselves thus forcing the above responses from the company and then eventually little to no communication. Blizzard, GW, Sony, foam companies, game devs and so on. However I have started on that path by not responding to certain posters. I do read their posts time to time but I don’t put them on ignore.
I really don’t want to join their ranks as I really want to communicate with gamers on what they want for storage solutions for the games you all play but I’m getting very little feedback on my current Kickstarter thread regarding the Myth trays. I’ve designed some tray sets gamers can put inside the Zombicide box you get with the game. If I get little to no feedback on the forums I’ll try and get focus groups for games I want to do storage for and if that fails I’ll make sets on my own initiative and hope it’s what gamers want.
At the end of all this I am doing everything with noble intentions andI just wanted to make threads and communicate with gamers where I can discussing with them what they want and try make it, because I have the resources to do it. When I started this venture this was one of the major problems I saw and wanted to fix and at this point in time I’m the only one here communicating with gamers unless the others start posting again.
I'm not sure where this is coming from unless you're getting your info from Azazelx which should be ignored as he only gets his information from one side and ignores mine, and he generally likes to try and cause problems for me. I have admitted repeatedly my communication needs to improve in terms of responding to questions (which it has). Once I get a big bigger and can higher some staff I'll have more time to focus on the customer server but as of now I'm juggling all the roles and responsibilities and there's only so many hours in the day.
Actually mate - you're talking gak here yet again. "I only get my information from one side?" After I pointed out how over the top your kicking of Ronin was with an equally over the top and patently ridiculous example, you chose to insult me with an accusation that was easily disproven, and then instead of apologising, doubled down on the insults. Since then all of "my information" has been from things that you or your supporters have posted, and all I've done is quote and link to them. You happily supply enough of your own rope, after all.
I'm starting to worry that he's just done a runner with our money. He hasn't responded to a message here, he hasn't responded to a message on Kickstarter. If there's problems he could communicate and let us know, but ignoring us altogether is a real bad look. I won't be letting this go easily. I guess I'll have to do some more digging.
I'm just offering suggestions on what I'd find useful, on the assumption that I'm not that atypical. I just like having everything in the 1 case so I can grab it on the way to a game without spending ages trying to find all the bits. In theory it'd make my games cupboard less of a mess too.
