I just saw an article about this on BOLS. I think it is a nice change of pace from the general negativity we often find on the internet.

http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2014/07/editorial-in-praise-of-gw.html

Have you actually read that "article"? Its nothing but a sales pitch by an online retailer...

"Things aren't bad, they are actually good, you just have to squint your eyes really hard and turn your head slightly to the left... Now please keep guying GW stuff from us!"

Oh dear, he's filling them so full of sap they're gonna have to blow their noses with pancakes.

Leave Britney GW alone!

I'd hardly call not raising prices something to praise GW for.

Most of the rest of the list are things that have remained constant for a number of years that people readily admit to everywhere anyways. The setting, aesthetics and overall quality of their plastics has always been something GW has done well. Its a shame that some of the new books don't add to the fluff, and in some cases, have actually hurt it.

I also think its a little disingenuous to praise GW for bringing people together to play a wargame. This would have happened anyways with any number of wargames.

Overall, I feel that this article is reaching for any excuse to say something positive about GW. Good customer service is to be expected, though they are pretty easy to deal with.

I'd also hardly call 7th a 'ballsy' move. It was a cash grab, pure and simple, not some extreme risk taking maneuver to shake up the wargaming world.

When a list start by praising a company for not raising prices, its hard to take the rest seriously.

Reecius...you kooky guy!

Wait. This is by Reecius and he gives them credit for not being afraid to take risks.

This is the guy that did the day 1 battle report to show that the revenant titan and escalation in general were bad ideas. Now he is saying that the risk taking is a good thing with them?

I just can't get past that part.

PhantomViper wrote:
Have you actually read that "article"? Its nothing but a sales pitch by an online retailer...

"Things aren't bad, they are actually good, you just have to squint your eyes really hard and turn your head slightly to the left... Now please keep guying GW stuff from us!"

Of course I've read the article! Criticizing the article for being entirely a GW sales pitch is unfounded seeing as Frontline Gaming sells many other products.

The lists reads as "GW didn't shoot itself in the foot this year. Huzzah!". They did do that, though, like having day one DLC and making Stormclaw a very limited edition.

The article's points itself are debatable. Nothing GW has done has demonstrated that they are willing to take risks. 7th Edition is the almost the same as 6th, all their new stuff is just flashy new kits designed to appeal to the desires of new shinies and they have not released a product that isn't a part of the core lines in some time. Are these necessarily bad things? No. They just shouldn't be praised for them.

A modular expansion system...? I... That's something every game system does. GW actually does it worse by making their expansions obscenely priced and poorly balanced.

Amazing Models. Ahem. This is subjective but... Taurox. Just the Taurox. Stormtalon. Stormraven. Any Space Marine flyer not made by FW. Morkanaut.

Setting. Okay, 40k is just as cool as ever. It hasn't changed any so... yay for not fething up?

Industry leading and innovating. Yep, slashing Games Day, ruining their only avenue of advertising, cut the amount of models in boxes in half and making players pay double if they want to play supplements. So much innovating.

Community. One man stores and no Games Day. That is all.

Excellent Customer Service. Okay, granted. Still not praise worthy.


The only thing that's been good from GW lately is the Stormclaw set and the new RoB. I know, I know, I'm just a sucker for Imperial city scape.

 TheCustomLime wrote:
The lists reads as "GW didn't shoot itself in the foot this year. Huzzah!". They did do that, though, like having day one DLC and making Stormclaw a very limited edition.

The article's points itself are debatable. Nothing GW has done has demonstrated that they are willing to take risks. 7th Edition is the almost the same as 6th, all their new stuff is just flashy new kits designed to appeal to the desires of new shinies and they have not released a product that isn't a part of the core lines in some time. Are these necessarily bad things? No. They just shouldn't be praised for them.

A modular expansion system...? I... That's something every game system does. GW actually does it worse by making their expansions obscenely priced and poorly balanced.

Amazing Models. Ahem. This is subjective but... Taurox. Just the Taurox. Stormtalon. Stormraven. Any Space Marine flyer not made by FW. Morkanaut.

Setting. Okay, 40k is just as cool as ever. It hasn't changed any so... yay for not fething up?

Industry leading and innovating. Yep, slashing Games Day, ruining their only avenue of advertising, cut the amount of models in boxes in half and making players pay double if they want to play supplements. So much innovating.

Community. One man stores and no Games Day. That is all.

Excellent Customer Service. Okay, granted. Still not praise worthy.


The only thing that's been good from GW lately is the Stormclaw set and the new RoB. I know, I know, I'm just a sucker for Imperial city scape.

I don't think the point of the article was to say how great GW is. The point is asking people to at least try to find something positive instead of being negative immediately.

Wow, so instead of putting money in improving their rules, GW now started to actually pay people to write fake articles.

Just wow.

I guess if you view not shooting yourself in the foot as positive then yes GW has done some positive things (Which they still have, btw). They just haven't done much praise worthy as of late is what I am saying. And what good they have done has been tempered by their stupid pricing/release policies.

 Random Dude wrote:

 TheCustomLime wrote:
The lists reads as "GW didn't shoot itself in the foot this year. Huzzah!". They did do that, though, like having day one DLC and making Stormclaw a very limited edition.

The article's points itself are debatable. Nothing GW has done has demonstrated that they are willing to take risks. 7th Edition is the almost the same as 6th, all their new stuff is just flashy new kits designed to appeal to the desires of new shinies and they have not released a product that isn't a part of the core lines in some time. Are these necessarily bad things? No. They just shouldn't be praised for them.

A modular expansion system...? I... That's something every game system does. GW actually does it worse by making their expansions obscenely priced and poorly balanced.

Amazing Models. Ahem. This is subjective but... Taurox. Just the Taurox. Stormtalon. Stormraven. Any Space Marine flyer not made by FW. Morkanaut.

Setting. Okay, 40k is just as cool as ever. It hasn't changed any so... yay for not fething up?

Industry leading and innovating. Yep, slashing Games Day, ruining their only avenue of advertising, cut the amount of models in boxes in half and making players pay double if they want to play supplements. So much innovating.

Community. One man stores and no Games Day. That is all.

Excellent Customer Service. Okay, granted. Still not praise worthy.


The only thing that's been good from GW lately is the Stormclaw set and the new RoB. I know, I know, I'm just a sucker for Imperial city scape.

I don't think the point of the article was to say how great GW is. The point is asking people to at least try to find something positive instead of being negative immediately.

As a consumer, that's not my job. It's the company's job to make me unreservedly and immediately excited about their product.

Models did NOT go up in price this year.

Yeah, they just release new models at horribly excessive prices instead of yearly raising of prices, hooray?

They're not afraid to take risks.

Wha? If anything, 7th edition is an example of GW completely unwillingness to take risks. It's basically 6th edition regeared to encourage you to buy more little toy soldiers, how is that risk taking??

A modular expansion system.

Wha? The game has always been open to modular expansion... like basically every other table top wargame on the market. Table top wargames by their very nature are open to modular expansion.

Amazing models.

Certainly debatable, but definitely one of the things that keeps people coming back to 40k in spite of all the other crap

Setting.

Definitely something people are usually praising. Though GW's fluff writing ability often leaves something to be desired, over the years they've expanded 40k to a very expansive and appealing universe to play in.

Industry leading and innovating.

Industry leading in the sense they have a dwindling monopoly from years gone past. Innovating? Are you kidding me? They haven't innovated for years. At this point the main positive to GW is that, being widespread, they are often the doorway through which new gamers get in to the wider wargaming universe.

Community.

I'm not sure the GW community is something to be proud of. It's a deeply fractured community with a lot of dissatisfied customers and customers who have left trying to push people toward other wargames and away from GW. You used to be able to say GW had an expansive community, though that really depends on your location these days, the GW community around my area used to be vibrant and is now dwindling.

Excellent Customer Service.

Indeed, an area where people often praise GW. Though it's unfortunate that many people experience GW's great customer service because of the simultaneously crappy QA on failcast. In all the years I've been collecting GW games, the only experiences I have had were back when I ordered something from the UK to ship to Australia and the order got lost and it was replaced with extra freebies thrown in (woo!) all the other times it's just been because I've had poorly cast miniatures (not so woo).

So we are left with positives being good models, good setting and good customer service... this is nothing new and GW often get praised for those things.

They're not afraid to take risks. GW followed their instincts and gave us a bold new edition that offered their players the power to control their own game as well as bring ALL of their models into play: Super Heavies, Forge World, etc. That is pretty ballsy, and I respect the moxy that that decision took.

This made me giggle.

Wow, the hate is strong in here.

 ashikenshin wrote:
Wow, the hate is strong in here.

Pointing out facts isn't hate.

 ashikenshin wrote:
Wow, the hate is strong in here.

And its well earned.

 ashikenshin wrote:
Wow, the hate is strong in here.

I simply put the "positive" points in to a "realistic" light, it's not really "hating" to point out reality.

AllSeeingSkink wrote:

 ashikenshin wrote:
Wow, the hate is strong in here.

I simply put the "positive" points in to a "realistic" light, it's not really "hating" to point out reality.

Whether or not GW is taking risks is subjective. Some people think they are taking risks, some don't. How can you say you are pointing out reality?

Because when you're talking about a business venture, "risks" are a quantifiable measurement. What risks has GW taken?

 Psienesis wrote:
Because when you're talking about a business venture, "risks" are a quantifiable measurement. What risks has GW taken?

Coming out with a new edition is a risk. There's a chance everyone will stay with the previous edition, and you lose all the money spent on development.

IMO the very BEST thing GW plc ever did was let all the staff go that wanted to do their job properly, and not just follow the short sighted directives of GW C.E.O. Tom Kirby.

These excellent individuals have got together to set up new companies , that offer great rule sets and minatures, at much better value for money than GW ever could

So the part of the reason the table top minature game hobby is doing so well, is a direct result of the short sighted GW corporate management.

IMO 40k still has the best models and fluff of any game out there. I think those two things alone have kept many people from leaving 40k.

 Random Dude wrote:

 Psienesis wrote:
Because when you're talking about a business venture, "risks" are a quantifiable measurement. What risks has GW taken?

Coming out with a new edition is a risk. There's a chance everyone will stay with the previous edition, and you lose all the money spent on development.

That might have been the case with 3rd edition which was significantly earlier in 40k's life and also a much more significant change from 2nd edition. These days GW knows that new 40k editions are cash cows and the rules changes are so incremental that they are hardly risks at all. 7th edition just feels like they had a board meeting where the topic was "what changes can be made to 6th edition to encourage people to buy more with absolute minimal effort".

 ashikenshin wrote:
Wow, the hate is strong in here.

"The tories are doing great! They're really helping the poor get back into work!"

"Actually, food bank usage is up astronomically, the number of employed have increased, but a much higher proportion are on zero-hours or part-time contracts, and the number of benefit sanctions being applied are extremely excessive and extremely unfair."

"STOP HATING!"

 Daedleh wrote:

 ashikenshin wrote:
Wow, the hate is strong in here.

"The tories are doing great! They're really helping the poor get back into work!"

"Actually, food bank usage is up astronomically, the number of employed have increased, but a much higher proportion are on zero-hours or part-time contracts, and the number of benefit sanctions being applied are extremely excessive and extremely unfair."

"STOP HATING!"

more like:

"There are some good things GW is doing"

"No, GW is stupid and they are losing customers because their game is bad"

"much hate"

your analogy doesn't work with toy soldiers

 ashikenshin wrote:

 Daedleh wrote:

 ashikenshin wrote:
Wow, the hate is strong in here.

"The tories are doing great! They're really helping the poor get back into work!"

"Actually, food bank usage is up astronomically, the number of employed have increased, but a much higher proportion are on zero-hours or part-time contracts, and the number of benefit sanctions being applied are extremely excessive and extremely unfair."

"STOP HATING!"

more like:

"There are some good things GW is doing"

"No, GW is stupid and they are losing customers because their game is bad"

"much hate"

your analogy doesn't work with toy soldiers

Actually it's more like:

"There are some good things GW is doing, here are some of those things"

"err, wait, no, some of those things aren't good in the context of wargaming, aren't true, or are actually things GW is doing badly"

"STOP HATING ON GW!!!"

Apparently my response was I was screaming "STOP HATING ON GW" while I typed "wow, the hate is strong here"

And you guys didn't read the thread.

 ashikenshin wrote:
more like:

"There are some good things GW is doing"

"No, GW is stupid and they are losing customers because their game is bad"

"much hate"

your analogy doesn't work with toy soldiers

Yes it does. The article makes a bunch of generalisations as reasons to be positive about GW. Posters here rebuked them and pointed out that the generalisations are either wrong, or misrepresented. You accuse them of hating.

Hmm was thinking to myself earlier "How would Dakka react to this article" when i was reading it.

This thread is pretty much what I thought what would happen

 Daedleh wrote:

 ashikenshin wrote:
more like:

"There are some good things GW is doing"

"No, GW is stupid and they are losing customers because their game is bad"

"much hate"

your analogy doesn't work with toy soldiers

Yes it does. The article makes a bunch of generalisations as reasons to be positive about GW. Posters here rebuked them and pointed out that the generalisations are either wrong, or misrepresented. You accuse them of hating.

Wow, so instead of putting money in improving their rules, GW now started to actually pay people to write fake articles.

Just wow.

yup, good rebuttal there.

 ashikenshin wrote:
yup, good rebuttal there.

I agree, that one's stupid. Also, it would be illegal in the UK. The poster should honestly put their money where their mouth is an report GW to Consumer Direct if they honestly believe that the article is paid for.

 ashikenshin wrote:
Apparently my response was I was screaming "STOP HATING ON GW" while I typed "wow, the hate is strong here"

And you guys didn't read the thread.

It's called poetic license, kind of like the article itself is doing

 Daedleh wrote:

 ashikenshin wrote:
yup, good rebuttal there.

I agree, that one's stupid. Also, it would be illegal in the UK. The poster should honestly put their money where their mouth is an report GW to Consumer Direct if they honestly believe that the article is paid for.

I wrote fake reviews when I was younger for quite some time. Easy, well-paid. Before doing that, I wasn't any less naive than you. It's natural to assume that stuff does not exist when it's "illegal" and confrontation with it is the only way to rebunk those false ideas. Give it time.

It's only recently become illegal in the past few years. It is a bit of a ludicrous jump to claim that GW are now breaking the law. Is there any evidence whatsoever that GW have ever broken the law before?

The guy who wrote the article seems to think fairly highly of GW anyway, so it wouldn't be out of character for him to write a pro-GW article.

Whatever evidence you have of the article being paid would be enough for consumer direct to launch an investigation.

With all the battle reports they post on youtube and their upcoming (?) tournament, I think they are happy with GW.

It amazes me how close-minded some people are. They have such a hard time believing someone could have a different opinion from their own. "There's no way anyone can like GW! They must have been paid off!" Really? Is it so hard to except that someone else thinks differently than you?

 Daedleh wrote:
It's only recently become illegal in the past few years. It is a bit of a ludicrous jump to claim that GW are now breaking the law. Is there any evidence whatsoever that GW have ever broken the law before?

The guy who wrote the article seems to think fairly highly of GW anyway, so it wouldn't be out of character for him to write a pro-GW article.

Whatever evidence you have of the article being paid would be enough for consumer direct to launch an investigation.

I'm not sure if you really did not get post's point or seriously took it literally.

 Random Dude wrote:
It amazes me how close-minded some people are. They have such a hard time believing someone could have a different opinion from their own. "There's no way anyone can like GW! They must have been paid off!" Really? Is it so hard to except that someone else thinks differently than you?

When they warp facts to put a positive spin in it, yeah, it is hard to believe that it's a genuine article from an unbiased person.

Or maybe it is a positive aritlce, but people cant actually believe that someone would write something positive about GW, so they assume there must be sort of angle or catch since no one likes GW obviously, according to the interwebs

Everything GW does is wrong/evil/stupid nothing good coming out of that company.

The anger, the discord, it strengthens me...

Let the hate flow through you Dakka...

 WrentheFaceless wrote:
Or maybe it is a positive aritlce, but people cant actually believe that someone would write something positive about GW, so they assume there must be sort of angle or catch since no one likes GW obviously, according to the interwebs

And the interwebs is always a good source for accurate information

Saying GW are not afraid to take risks when they have shown they are increasingly afraid to take risks and take less risks than smaller start ups is warping the facts.

Saying that having a modular expansion system is a good thing for a wargame when practically all wargames have modular expansion systems is misrepresenting the facts.

Saying GW are industry leading (in any other context than they are the monopoly) and innovating is insulting to all the companies who are actually pushing boundaries.

Saying the GW community is great I feel is misrepresenting the facts when you consider we are basically the community and we are divided and cranky as all hell. If you say the community is great simply because it's good to hang out with people... well that applies to any social activity so IMO is misrepresenting things.

I totally agree with the positive things of models, setting and customer service though... I'm just trying to be more realistic about it though.

Perhaps if you disagree with me on those points you should actually address them instead of saying things like "there's so much hate" and implying that saying "Everything GW does is wrong/stupid/evil".


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 WrentheFaceless wrote:
Or maybe it is a positive aritlce, but people cant actually believe that someone would write something positive about GW, so they assume there must be sort of angle or catch since no one likes GW obviously, according to the interwebs

 ashikenshin wrote:
Everything GW does is wrong/evil/stupid nothing good coming out of that company.

Or maybe people actually read the points and disagree with them, how abouts you actually read what people have said about the points presented in the article instead of making useless comments like this?

AllSeeingSkink wrote:
Or maybe people actually read the points and disagree with them, how abouts you actually read what people have said about the points presented in the article instead of making useless comments like this?

So the entire first page of this thread is ok since it agrees with you, but a comment disagreeing with your point of view is suddenly 'useless'?

Anyway for your points.

As for GW not taking risks, they released a brand new edition, thats a fairly big risk considering their history of releases

As for modular expansions, yes thats a good thing for Warhammer specifically, thats nice that other games do it, but Warhammer never has, but it is now, and thats a good thing for warhammer.

Innovation, meh, plastic models are plastic models, unless they make them automated, that would be innovation haha.

The GW community is great....when you dont read the internet. Local communities are still great, as are other people I've met outside the internet. Other than the vocal minority, yea the community is pretty good

AllSeeingSkink wrote:

Saying GW are not afraid to take risks when they have shown they are increasingly afraid to take risks and take less risks than smaller start ups is warping the facts.

Saying that having a modular expansion system is a good thing for a wargame when practically all wargames have modular expansion systems is misrepresenting the facts.

ok, this one got me. How does that sentence work, what's the logic behind it. All war-games having a modular expansion suddenly makes it bad? don't understand this one.

Saying GW are industry leading (in any other context than they are the monopoly) and innovating is insulting to all the companies who are actually pushing boundaries.

which ones are those, not being aggressive or anything just want to know which are the companies that are pushing boundaries to check them out.

Saying the GW community is great I feel is misrepresenting the facts when you consider we are basically the community and we are divided and cranky as all hell. If you say the community is great simply because it's good to hang out with people... well that applies to any social activity so IMO is misrepresenting things.

maybe he is talking about his community? my local community is great. Internet is just negative in every way (see: world of warcraft forums)

I totally agree with the positive things of models, setting and customer service though... I'm just trying to be more realistic about it though.

Perhaps if you disagree with me on those points you should actually address them instead of saying things like "there's so much hate" and implying that saying "Everything GW does is wrong/stupid/evil".


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 WrentheFaceless wrote:
Or maybe it is a positive aritlce, but people cant actually believe that someone would write something positive about GW, so they assume there must be sort of angle or catch since no one likes GW obviously, according to the interwebs

 ashikenshin wrote:
Everything GW does is wrong/evil/stupid nothing good coming out of that company.

Or maybe people actually read the points and disagree with them, how abouts you actually read what people have said about the points presented in the article instead of making useless comments like this?

It was in jest answering to the other poster.

 WrentheFaceless wrote:

AllSeeingSkink wrote:
Or maybe people actually read the points and disagree with them, how abouts you actually read what people have said about the points presented in the article instead of making useless comments like this?

So the entire first page of this thread is ok since it agrees with you, but a comment disagreeing with your point of view is suddenly 'useless'?

I never said there weren't a lot of useless posts in this thread

As for GW not taking risks, they released a brand new edition, thats a fairly big risk considering their history of releases

Care to elaborate on what you mean "considering their history of releases"? From the Chapterhouse case and even just from basic understanding of sales, releasing something new attracts a lot of sales, and since minimal things were changed from 6th, I'm not seeing where the big risk was.

As for modular expansions, yes thats a good thing for Warhammer specifically, thats nice that other games do it, but Warhammer never has, but it is now, and thats a good thing for warhammer.

Ok, I agree with that.

The GW community is great....when you dont read the internet. Local communities are still great, as are other people I've met outside the internet. Other than the vocal minority, yea the community is pretty good

I guess it's just anecdotal then. My experience with the GW community has been that it's dwindling, most my friends have left the game, there's a couple of good people I know who still play, but even in the FLGS's I find the fracturing in the GW community to be quite apparent with many of the people in the stores and clubs playing other games bad mouthing GW for various reasons.

I'm sorry your GW is shrinking, anecdotal stuff, my local one is growing, we're getting new players all the time.

As for the new edition, it was fairly risky at the time, chatter was that it was too soon and people were contemplating rejecting it outright from the moment it was announced since it was 'too soon'. People dont like it when their schedules are messed with.

 WrentheFaceless wrote:
I'm sorry your GW is shrinking, anecdotal stuff, my local one is growing, we're getting new players all the time.

Wow, I never knew your local store was the entire company and representative of the world.

 Random Dude wrote:
It amazes me how close-minded some people are. They have such a hard time believing someone could have a different opinion from their own. "There's no way anyone can like GW! They must have been paid off!" Really? Is it so hard to except that someone else thinks differently than you?

yup,

makes me glad I dont have to play with these people as I doubt it would be any fun...

glad they hate 40k, go play some other system and dissapear into it,

#1 reason I am not into several other systems is just the people who keep hating on GW and making comments to the effect of "you are stupid if you like that game"

these people then go on to complain about their own games as well, but only when they lose.

nothing makes me happier then seeing someone quit 40k because its "unbalanced, unfair, and I am an awesome general who should never lose" then seeing them do even worse at WMH's then they did at 40k.

Have we learned nothing from the slew of other threads that the "GW Apologist" crowd gets closed by attacking the "Anti-GW" people and just dismissing us all as whiners?

Maybe that is their best defense. We can't complain if they get all the threads closed.

I like seeing some positivity in the community! Keep these kind of posts coming!

I have a question for all the people with huge collections who say they hate GW. Did you buy all that stuff a long time ago? Cuz if you're still buying GW stuff while complaining at the same time, it doesn't make much sense.

 Random Dude wrote:
I have a question for all the people with huge collections who say they hate GW. Did you buy all that stuff a long time ago? Cuz if you're still buying GW stuff while complaining at the same time, it doesn't make much sense.

I'll answer this when you stop using the "H" word. Deal?

Good luck finding anyone who says they "hate GW" that's very much a label applied to people expressing a critical opinion of GW's actions, regardless of how well founded and supported those criticisms may be, by the "apologists" because as a rule, ad hominem attacks, hand waving and reductum ad absurdum are about all they have in their locker.

 Grimtuff wrote:

 Random Dude wrote:
I have a question for all the people with huge collections who say they hate GW. Did you buy all that stuff a long time ago? Cuz if you're still buying GW stuff while complaining at the same time, it doesn't make much sense.

I'll answer this when you stop using the "H" word. Deal?

Fine. People who dislike GW's decisions?

 Random Dude wrote:
I have a question for all the people with huge collections who say they hate GW.

Which would be who, exactly?

A polished turd is still a turd.

 Random Dude wrote:

Coming out with a new edition is a risk. There's a chance everyone will stay with the previous edition, and you lose all the money spent on development.

Less of a risk if you actually engage the community who supports your game, rather than writing it in a vaccuum and hoping for the best...

 insaniak wrote:

 Random Dude wrote:

Coming out with a new edition is a risk. There's a chance everyone will stay with the previous edition, and you lose all the money spent on development.

Less of a risk if you actually engage the community who supports your game, rather than writing it in a vaccuum and hoping for the best...

But, does it stop being a risk?

 Random Dude wrote:

 Grimtuff wrote:

 Random Dude wrote:
I have a question for all the people with huge collections who say they hate GW. Did you buy all that stuff a long time ago? Cuz if you're still buying GW stuff while complaining at the same time, it doesn't make much sense.

I'll answer this when you stop using the "H" word. Deal?

Fine. People who dislike GW's decisions?

It's been pointed out on numerous occasions that disliking a company's business decisions and disliking a product that that company produces are not necessarily the same thing.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 ashikenshin wrote:
But, does it stop being a risk?

If it's done right, it becomes a negligible one.

 ashikenshin wrote:

 insaniak wrote:

 Random Dude wrote:

Coming out with a new edition is a risk. There's a chance everyone will stay with the previous edition, and you lose all the money spent on development.

Less of a risk if you actually engage the community who supports your game, rather than writing it in a vaccuum and hoping for the best...

But, does it stop being a risk?

Well, no. But it is a major mitigating factor. Put out an open Beta (PP did for Mk2) to get a gakload of free feedback from your customers. Simples.

 WrentheFaceless wrote:
I'm sorry your GW is shrinking, anecdotal stuff, my local one is growing, we're getting new players all the time.

So you both provide contradicting anecdotal evidence on whether GW is shrinking or growing.

I just wished there was a way to verify which one of you were right. If only GW were a public company and published their financials. But, alas, we'll remain in the dark.



As for the article... I usually appreciate Reecius' positive outlook on 40k, but some of these points are just dumb. Spinning 7th from desperation (again, if only there had been some sort of financial reports to back my point here...) to laudable bravery is the sort of absurdity you normally hear from North Korea.

And as for the customer service that constantly gets praised everywhere... I just don't get it. I mean, their customer service isn't bad, but... "excellent" and "kicks ass"? What? Your defective product gets replaced? Does anyone really have problems with that from any other companies? Or is it that you only have to wait a year before they fix their hopelessly ambiguous rules (that you paid for, btw)? Can anyone tell me why their customer service deserves extra mention? I'm not having a go, I'm genuinely curious.

Oh I know, betas are great feedback for developers. I know Final Fantasy XIV: ARR was way better because of it and Destiny will be amazing. I think they handle the company in questionable ways and it appears as if they are stuck in the past for some reason.

Would 7th ed have been better with a Beta? Hell yes! would it have been a risk nonetheless? well, yes

Got to laugh at one of the points being "they didn't raise prices." That's ignoring the fact this is even being brought up in the first place because we're so used to price rises. And really, would price rises make much difference to many people now? The stuff is so expensive that if you're going to be priced out, you probably already have been by this point. And when stuff just starts off prohibitively expensive, saying "well, at least that isn't a price rise" sounds very hollow indeed.

I like the setting, I like a lot of the new models, and I've enjoyed the games of 7th I've had. It's mainly the blatant money-grabbing I can't abide. And yes, I know businesses have to make money, but I feel the prices are just a joke. £38 for 3 infantry? £15 for a single model HQ choice? If I were to upgrade my old-style Broadsides to the new kit that'd be £120. Come off it.

 Azreal13 wrote:
Good luck finding anyone who says they "hate GW" that's very much a label applied to people expressing a critical opinion of GW's actions, regardless of how well founded and supported those criticisms may be, by the "apologists" because as a rule, ad hominem attacks, hand waving and reductum ad absurdum are about all they have in their locker.

funny, replace "apologists" with "haters" and it seems like thats what the apologist call the haters too...


at least no one is calling you out as "stupid" for hating GW....

critical opinions, when justified, are just fine, some criticisms are valid on GW, other are presented as valid, but are really not. OFC the "haters" disagree and feel their invalid reasons are valid.

and they are entitled to their own opinion, but to claim it as a provable fact, is just silly.

at least the apologists admit its their OPINION that the game is fun, instead of trying to acti like its a provable fact that 40k is the bees knees.

 Fezman wrote:
Got to laugh at one of the points being "they didn't raise prices." That's ignoring the fact this is even being brought up in the first place because we're so used to price rises. And really, would price rises make much difference to many people now? The stuff is so expensive that if you're going to be priced out, you probably already have been by this point. And when stuff just starts off prohibitively expensive, saying "well, at least that isn't a price rise" sounds very hollow indeed.

I like the setting, I like a lot of the new models, and I've enjoyed the games of 7th I've had. It's mainly the blatant money-grabbing I can't abide. And yes, I know businesses have to make money, but I feel the prices are just a joke. £38 for 3 infantry? £15 for a single model HQ choice? If I were to upgrade my old-style Broadsides to the new kit that'd be £120. Come off it.

I dislike GW's prices. I don't understand why anyone would buy from them directly when you can get 20% discounts on un-opened items on ebay.

 easysauce wrote:

 Azreal13 wrote:
Good luck finding anyone who says they "hate GW" that's very much a label applied to people expressing a critical opinion of GW's actions, regardless of how well founded and supported those criticisms may be, by the "apologists" because as a rule, ad hominem attacks, hand waving and reductum ad absurdum are about all they have in their locker.

funny, replace "apologists" with "haters" and it seems like thats what the apologist call the haters too...


at least no one is calling you out as "stupid" for hating GW....

critical opinions, when justified, are just fine, some criticisms are valid on GW, other are presented as valid, but are really not. OFC the "haters" disagree and feel their invalid reasons are valid.

and they are entitled to their own opinion, but to claim it as a provable fact, is just silly.

at least the apologists admit its their OPINION that the game is fun, instead of trying to acti like its a provable fact that 40k is the bees knees.

Except I very deliberately placed apologists in quotation marks, to try and indicate I was using it as a form of shorthand rather than in a literal sense.

 Grimtuff wrote:

 WrentheFaceless wrote:
I'm sorry your GW is shrinking, anecdotal stuff, my local one is growing, we're getting new players all the time.

Wow, I never knew your local store was the entire company and representative of the world.

But his is because he agrees with your point of view right?

 Random Dude wrote:

 Fezman wrote:
Got to laugh at one of the points being "they didn't raise prices." That's ignoring the fact this is even being brought up in the first place because we're so used to price rises. And really, would price rises make much difference to many people now? The stuff is so expensive that if you're going to be priced out, you probably already have been by this point. And when stuff just starts off prohibitively expensive, saying "well, at least that isn't a price rise" sounds very hollow indeed.

I like the setting, I like a lot of the new models, and I've enjoyed the games of 7th I've had. It's mainly the blatant money-grabbing I can't abide. And yes, I know businesses have to make money, but I feel the prices are just a joke. £38 for 3 infantry? £15 for a single model HQ choice? If I were to upgrade my old-style Broadsides to the new kit that'd be £120. Come off it.

I dislike GW's prices. I don't understand why anyone would buy from them directly when you can get 20% discounts on un-opened items on ebay.

Unfortunately in this game one box of something is not always enough to make a viable unit...and when the RRP is so high, even when a discount is applied I find the price starts to stack up to a level I can't justify. For that reason I now (well, for WH40K) restrict myself to only using models I already own.

"Apologist" isn't a negative term. Google it.

 MWHistorian wrote:
"Apologist" isn't a negative term. Google it.

There's probably some fancy psychological term for it, but I expect that if you're labelled with what you view as an equivalent term to something you have used in a negative way, you're going to assume that it's also a negative term.

Though, of course, that would mean anyone who called another user a "hater" was breaking rule 1.....

At this point I get the impression that maybe 10-15% of dakka's most regular 40K commenters actually play/have played the game, and the rest are insane internet cranks who were told that this place has a high tolerance for crazy people

and then there's the small percentage of us who come here to call out the crazy people

Well, I don't know of I qualify as a "most regular 40K commentator" or not, but I play at least once a week, most recently on Monday, it was a Maelstrom game against Waveserpent spam with Hammer and Anvil deployment and the most "competitively minded" player at the club.

Wasn't much fun, but I'll keep playing, because it's better than nothing, which right now is the alternative for me and regular gaming, and most games are a lot more enjoyable.

What a tremendously disingenuous article. Given it's author I find that both surprising and disappointing.

 Multimoog wrote:
At this point I get the impression that maybe 10-15% of dakka's most regular 40K commenters actually play/have played the game, and the rest are insane internet cranks who were told that this place has a high tolerance for crazy people

and then there's the small percentage of us who come here to call out the crazy people

Most of the dissenters *USED* to play the game years ago (you know, when GW wasn't quite as insulting towards retailers and customers) which if anything would make our opinion MORE valuable because we are no longer customers. Most businesses like to know why someone is going to a competitor, and what (if anything) they can do to fix the relationship.

He put out his opinion. I may not agree with some points but will admit I am enjoying 7th a whole lot more than 6th. Nothing but fun games so far.

 Multimoog wrote:
At this point I get the impression that maybe 10-15% of dakka's most regular 40K commenters actually play/have played the game, and the rest are insane internet cranks who were told that this place has a high tolerance for crazy people

and then there's the small percentage of us who come here to call out the crazy people

Wow, um...you must really think highly of your opinion if you're calling out 85-90% of dakka members as crazies and labeling yourself as the proclaimed caller-outer-of-said-crazies.

On the topic, I do question this BOLS article a bit- it's been a stark change in tone for Reecius since the days a few months ago when he did the battle reports on how broken (some) Lords of War are, via the Revenant titan. But who knows, maybe he really has been enjoying 7th; I am not positive of what his attitude was regarding 6th so I cannot say. I do wonder though if his opinion, and said review, are influenced to a noticeable degree to what I believe is his profiting as a third party on 40k sales-i.e. via a shop, painting services, etc.

I'm not saying anything bad about him at all, he's a pretty prominent poster and he comes off as a great guy on the videos, I just wonder if this very cheery article is in any way affected by his own financial position.

I could be entirely wrong though, it's just my thoughts on the whole thing. I'm glad he's enjoying 7th, I wish him all the best.

It's ok, Teddy says I'm crazy like a weasel, and the wardrobes say that that's perfectly normal.

 Multimoog wrote:
At this point I get the impression that maybe 10-15% of dakka's most regular 40K commenters actually play/have played the game, and the rest are insane internet cranks who were told that this place has a high tolerance for crazy people

and then there's the small percentage of us who come here to call out the crazy people

Well said!

You're claiming a post is well said for calling out most forum users as insane internet cranks?

Maybe you should up your posting standards if that's what you consider to be commendable.

Disagreeing with someone shouldn't be grounds for calling people insane or cranks.

 Blacksails wrote:
You're claiming a post is well said for calling out most forum users as insane internet cranks?

Maybe you should up your posting standards if that's what you consider to be commendable.

Disagreeing with someone shouldn't be grounds for calling people insane or cranks.

Well said!



...Sorry, I couldn't help myself but see how annoying that is? I honestly try hard to not be derogatory to people, so it's frustrating when posts like that pop up, dismissing all other opinions as having no merit.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
What a tremendously disingenuous article. Given it's author I find that both surprising and disappointing.

I agree with you. Exalted!

Let's break it down yo, as to how every single point in the article is wrong. At least in my opinion.

"Models did NOT go up in price this year."
Huh? Whosa-whatsit?

For starters, models staying at their unreasonable price is in of itself unreasonable. But prices continue to rise in a more subtle way for a few things- now playing Guard and kitting yourself out with Stormtroopers costs nearly twice as much! Really, no matter how much you like the Scions don't forget it: they cost much, much more per figure than the old stormtrooper 10-man box set. As to continued price raises, well, they haven't had much time to do it yet.

...I anticipate a policy of replacing older kits with more expensive newer kits, as a way to raise prices while people pretend like they aren't because they aren't physically marking up any kits prices anymore. My theory.

"A modular expansion system."
*Face reddens.*

That's code-word-sling-slang for "We released a metric crapload of more expensive books that don't have enough decent content in them."

"Industry leading and innovating."
PBBbbbbt!

We don't owe GW anything for "creating the market", and I'd contend that they've slightly curtailed the growth of the market more than anything. Every time one of my comic-book collecting, magic playing, gaming friends tells me "No way I'd play Warhammer, It's too expensive", I die a little inside.

"Community."
*Gasps for air.*

The community exists outside of GW, with no GW support, recognition, or comprehension. They refuse to listen to us in any meaningful way or try to make us like them. Saying one of the best things about GW is the "communities" is total nonsense.

They're not afraid to take risks.
*Explodes.*

Suffices to say that the risks they're taking are insane and designed for short-term profits.

GW is milking the market like a farmer desperately and forcefully milking a diseased dairy cow. You know the cow is going to die, the farmer probably knows the cow is going to die, but milk comes out and that's all that matters for now- even when the milk comes out a trickle and is increasingly sour. You might see what's ahead but hey, there's still milk coming out and you can always pretend like nothings wrong.

Exactly.

I'm resisting the urge to just respond with another well said, but I'm afraid it'll spiral out of control like the crassus meme did.

CRASSUS ARMOURED ASSAULT TRANSPORT!!!



SORRY

 Blacksails wrote:
You're claiming a post is well said for calling out most forum users as insane internet cranks?

Maybe you should up your posting standards if that's what you consider to be commendable.

Disagreeing with someone shouldn't be grounds for calling people insane or cranks.

Okay, calling them insane is a bit too much, but I do think many people use dakka as a way to voice their general negativity.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
What a tremendously disingenuous article. Given it's author I find that both surprising and disappointing.

Here, here. This is entirely a at who it's coming from. Might have something to do with the Bay Area Open? I'd hate to not make conjecture about a guy that comes off as pretty cool and probably pretty smart to be running the events he does so well.

You have in the comments "MVBrandt" (Mike Brandt of NOVA Fame) talking about how much Malifaux has put a spell over him and how it's a better game. He, too, runs a huge 40k gaming tournament.

I pretty much either disagree with his statements for the reasons already enunciated by the folks here or am flat out flabbergasted on a few of them.

 Random Dude wrote:



Okay, calling them insane is a bit too much, but I do think many people use dakka as a way to voice their general negativity.

As opposed to people who use dakka to voice their negativity about the negativity?

Or blind positivity for the sake of being positive?

Don't judge posts by the level of praise (or lack thereof) towards something, judge it by the actual contents. A post isn't good or bad based on if its praising GW or if its knocking GW; its good if its well written, backed by some sort of logic/experience/evidence/fact/humourous story, and adds to the discussion in some small way.

Want Dakka to improve? Don't further polarize the community by supporting insults or categorizing players. Don't make threads that start off with the equivalent of 'something positive for a change'. Maybe you should reflect on why there's a general trend towards negativity when it comes to GW and their products. Engage with posters in a way where everyone can explain their reasons without being labelled. Understand where other posters are coming from.

It doesn't help your case for positive feelings when the article in question opens up with quite possibly the most apologetic reason I could ever conceive. There's plenty GW has done right and given us that we are appreciative of. Many of us may come off as bitter because of what GW is doing as opposed to what they could be doing to improve it.

That and I don't praise things for the sake of being positive and nice. Praise is given where praise is due.

 Random Dude wrote:

 Blacksails wrote:
You're claiming a post is well said for calling out most forum users as insane internet cranks?

Maybe you should up your posting standards if that's what you consider to be commendable.

Disagreeing with someone shouldn't be grounds for calling people insane or cranks.

Okay, calling them insane is a bit too much, but I do think many people use dakka as a way to voice their general negativity.

Hmmm, ok, you've got me intrigued.

So, in essence, you're postulating that, rather than having genuine criticism or concerns with the state of the game or the actions of the maker of that game, people are instead just coming here to complain?

One could refer to them, perhaps, as "a bunch of complainers?" 'Whiners' if you will?

This theory could utterly revolutionise Dakka, we could just simply hand wave away all those complaints! Just dismiss them out of hand!

I would like to know more.

 Azreal13 wrote:

 Random Dude wrote:

 Blacksails wrote:
You're claiming a post is well said for calling out most forum users as insane internet cranks?

Maybe you should up your posting standards if that's what you consider to be commendable.

Disagreeing with someone shouldn't be grounds for calling people insane or cranks.

Okay, calling them insane is a bit too much, but I do think many people use dakka as a way to voice their general negativity.

Hmmm, ok, you've got me intrigued.

So, in essence, you're postulating that, rather than having genuine criticism or concerns with the state of the game or the actions of the maker of that game, people are instead just coming here to complain?

One could refer to them, perhaps, as "a bunch of complainers?" 'Whiners' if you will?

This theory could utterly revolutionise Dakka, we could just simply hand wave away all those complaints! Just dismiss them out of hand!

I would like to know more.

I can't tell if people are being sarcastic over the internet (seriously, I can't).

 Random Dude wrote:


I can't tell if people are being sarcastic over the internet (seriously, I can't).

Definite sarcasm.

Just about nearly broke my damn meter.

 Random Dude wrote:
I can't tell if people are being sarcastic over the internet (seriously, I can't).

He's being sarcastic.

I think at this point, It's best if I just leave the debate entirely.

 Blacksails wrote:

 Random Dude wrote:


I can't tell if people are being sarcastic over the internet (seriously, I can't).

Definite sarcasm.

Just about nearly broke my damn meter.

Sorry, let me know if it's permanently damaged and I'll get you a new one.

Perhaps one of those digital ones, if they're on special.

 Random Dude wrote:

 Blacksails wrote:
You're claiming a post is well said for calling out most forum users as insane internet cranks?

Maybe you should up your posting standards if that's what you consider to be commendable.

Disagreeing with someone shouldn't be grounds for calling people insane or cranks.

Okay, calling them insane is a bit too much, but I do think many people use dakka as a way to voice their general negativity.

While I take issue with that I'll admit that's pretty much the only reason I come to 40k general. The rest of Dakka is not a 40k forum however so I have plenty of reason to be there.

Now tell me why voicing my opinion is a bad thing?

 Blacksails wrote:


wat

For Reference:


A positive outlook on Games Workshop would be "They aren't failing that bad, right?"

Azreal13 wrote:

 Blacksails wrote:

 Random Dude wrote:


I can't tell if people are being sarcastic over the internet (seriously, I can't).

Definite sarcasm.

Just about nearly broke my damn meter.

Sorry, let me know if it's permanently damaged and I'll get you a new one.

Perhaps one of those digital ones, if they're on special.

I'll have my people call your people.

TheKbob wrote:

 Blacksails wrote:


wat

For Reference:

Spoiler:

A positive outlook on Games Workshop would be "They aren't failing that bad, right?"

I feel like everyone in that audience is high as a kite.

It's an American kids show that was known for being extremely crass for adults who watched it. Not sure if the Canadians had the joys of PeeWee Herman?

But the general tone seems right for the article itself. The "is this happening and are we supposed to be in on the joke?" tone is what I'm saying. As stated, Reece has posted so many "WTF is GW thinking?!" videos to suddenly have this bombshell drop. And the BAO is very soon. Correlation and causation and what not...

 TheKbob wrote:
It's an American kids show that was known for being extremely crass for adults who watched it. Not sure if the Canadians had the joys of PeeWee Herman?

I think we did, I was just busy not doing acid.

*Edit* You all keep changing avatars! How am I supposed to remember who's who?

Either way, I'm imagining Kbob as that guy with the beard.

Like all conversations on dakka.. Especially GW business decision related ones...
I feel the Moderators need to remind people that civilised conversation requires you to attack the argument.. Not the person making the argument..
If for no other reason because they will "switch off" to whatever your saying...
In other words.. Don't be surprised that people are completely ignoring any intelligent argument you make after being rude/sarcastic/aggressive...

 Random Dude wrote:
I think at this point, It's best if I just leave the debate entirely.

No need to do that, just keep this in mind:

 Blacksails wrote:
As opposed to people who use dakka to voice their negativity about the negativity?

Or blind positivity for the sake of being positive?

Don't judge posts by the level of praise (or lack thereof) towards something, judge it by the actual contents. A post isn't good or bad based on if its praising GW or if its knocking GW; its good if its well written, backed by some sort of logic/experience/evidence/fact/humourous story, and adds to the discussion in some small way.

Want Dakka to improve? Don't further polarize the community by supporting insults or categorizing players. Don't make threads that start off with the equivalent of 'something positive for a change'. Maybe you should reflect on why there's a general trend towards negativity when it comes to GW and their products. Engage with posters in a way where everyone can explain their reasons without being labelled. Understand where other posters are coming from.

It doesn't help your case for positive feelings when the article in question opens up with quite possibly the most apologetic reason I could ever conceive. There's plenty GW has done right and given us that we are appreciative of. Many of us may come off as bitter because of what GW is doing as opposed to what they could be doing to improve it.

That and I don't praise things for the sake of being positive and nice. Praise is given where praise is due.

 Blacksails wrote:

 TheKbob wrote:
It's an American kids show that was known for being extremely crass for adults who watched it. Not sure if the Canadians had the joys of PeeWee Herman?

I think we did, I was just busy not doing acid.

*Edit* You all keep changing avatars! How am I supposed to remember who's who?

Either way, I'm imagining Kbob as that guy with the beard.

I wish I could rock that awesome of a beard. All the talk about positive stuff got me thinking of a blog post that I like about positivity. And how Picard is a usual positive and optimistic character. Then I wanted a Picard avatar... this is how my mind works, don't judge.

 Inquisitor Bob wrote:
Like all conversations on dakka.. Especially GW business decision related ones...
I feel the Moderators need to remind people that civilised conversation requires you to attack the argument.. Not the person making the argument..
If for no other reason because they will "switch off" to whatever your saying...
In other words.. Don't be surprised that people are completely ignoring any intelligent argument you make after being rude/sarcastic/aggressive...

Ah, I see you're new, and therefore haven't been through the whole posting cycle yet. Believe me, if I thought there was anything to be gained by conducting a serious debate, I would. But I already have. Twice. In the last 6 months.

There comes a point where there really isn't any more to be said, but people still insist on saying it repeatedly. When I'm in the mood, I find it fun to pick holes in the opposing arguments, but at this point, it is like one of those cartoon sequences where the guy is swordfighting one-handed while reading a book, because the whole thing is so predictable.

Once the next financial report lands in a week or so, we'll have fresh meat and the age old debate can move on to the next phase

 Blacksails wrote:
Don't judge posts by the level of praise (or lack thereof) towards something, judge it by the actual contents.

What more is there to say, really? I mean, the so-called "hate" posts are usually filled with reasons why the person dislikes a certain aspect. The "y'all just haterz" posts often say very little beyond that.

And us "haters" often either write 40k stuff for a living ^^ or love what that person writes <<.

 Azreal13 wrote:

 Inquisitor Bob wrote:
Like all conversations on dakka.. Especially GW business decision related ones...
I feel the Moderators need to remind people that civilised conversation requires you to attack the argument.. Not the person making the argument..
If for no other reason because they will "switch off" to whatever your saying...
In other words.. Don't be surprised that people are completely ignoring any intelligent argument you make after being rude/sarcastic/aggressive...

Ah, I see you're new, and therefore haven't been through the whole posting cycle yet. Believe me, if I thought there was anything to be gained by conducting a serious debate, I would. But I already have. Twice. In the last 6 months.

There comes a point where there really isn't any more to be said, but people still insist on saying it repeatedly. When I'm in the mood, I find it fun to pick holes in the opposing arguments, but at this point, it is like one of those cartoon sequences where the guy is swordfighting one-handed while reading a book, because the whole thing is so predictable.

Once the next financial report lands in a week or so, we'll have fresh meat and the age old debate can move on to the next phase

As Azreal stated, we've had this discussion already. There are several key threads in the Dakka Discussions forums that cover these topics in great length:

"Positive Thinking Week"
"The Future of Games Workshop - Parts 13 & 14"
"GW Share Price Development"
"The Parellels of GW Today with TSR"

Those four threads are supremely long and are full of the items already hashed out. Long story short is that the game is getting worse with every release, the value of the products is deteriorating by their own measure (and worse in comparison to competitive brands), all while Games Workshop is seemingly sticking to it's guns and doing all the marked posturing of a company trapped in a fiscal death spiral.

Remember, apologist is an actual definable term. Hater is internet slang used usually by immature parties to describe the opposition to some sort of affinity the term user may have towards a certain object, action, or style choice that goes beyond rationality or reasoning. If you use the term "Haters Gonna Hate" in any serious fashion, then... ... just don't.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Blacksails wrote:
Don't judge posts by the level of praise (or lack thereof) towards something, judge it by the actual contents.

What more is there to say, really? I mean, the so-called "hate" posts are usually filled with reasons why the person dislikes a certain aspect. The "y'all just haterz" posts often say very little beyond that.

The haters get called haters because of how often they voice hate about what they hate, not why they hate or what they hate.

I hate GW. I even complain sometimes. But I am yet to be called a hater here (well not that I have seen).

At least thats why I think people hate the haters. Like the example used earlier, reading them gets like the guy who sword fights one handedly while reading a book. Its very predictable.

It takes training to ignore those thread haha.

Personally, I'd dispense with the word "hater" altogether in favour of something more suitable, but that would leave a lot of posters with very little to post about.....

 Yonan wrote:
And us "haters" often either write 40k stuff for a living ^^ or love what that person writes <<.

So?

If you're going to get into a debate with someone, leave the emotional bias at home. Just the facts, please.

 BlaxicanX wrote:

 Yonan wrote:
And us "haters" often either write 40k stuff for a living ^^ or love what that person writes <<.

So?

If you're going to get into a debate with someone, leave the emotional bias at home. Just the facts, please.

I believe is his statement is that the individuals seen as most critical, or negative, of Games Workshop and their games are predominantly those that would be most interested in their success and the games being, as one would say, fething amazing.

But, just call me another insane crazy.

GW Innovative?!?

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAAHHAHAHAAAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAAHAHAHHAHA

OH MY SIDES!!!! AHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAH


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Humm maybe GW is innovative. They are innovating what not to do if you are a gaming company.

Fire Jervis Johnson!!!!!

 TheKbob wrote:

 BlaxicanX wrote:

 Yonan wrote:
And us "haters" often either write 40k stuff for a living ^^ or love what that person writes <<.

So?

If you're going to get into a debate with someone, leave the emotional bias at home. Just the facts, please.

I believe is his statement is that the individuals seen as most critical, or negative, of Games Workshop and their games are predominantly those that would be most interested in their success and the games being, as one would say, fething amazing.

But, just call me another insane crazy.

Correct! I'd love it if GW produced products I was happy to buy again, much like FFG and Relic does. It also shows that we're not just negative about the topic and will happily say when things are awesome - and why we think some things are awesome as opposed to other things.

dresnar1 wrote:
GW Innovative?!?

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAAHHAHAHAAAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAAHAHAHHAHA

OH MY SIDES!!!! AHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAH


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Humm maybe GW is innovative. They are innovating what not to do if you are a gaming company.

Fire Jervis Johnson!!!!!

I guess this guy isnt doing the "haterz" any favors huh?

 ashikenshin wrote:


I guess this guy isnt doing the "haterz" any favors huh?

Much like politics, too much time is spent talking about fissures between parties and not of the actual issues. So be bigger than the dissent and discuss the matters and not the labels.

Remember, only Games Workshop games features such a massive divide in their community that is quick to have sides label each other. Sounds very much like other large pools of generally ignorant folks all finger pointing over some poorly written words on paper.

Hahaha well for what is worth I see that people like to complain. Not that there is anything wrong with that. I experienced it before in other gaming forums. People who spent the most time playing the game were the most vocal. But, I felt that the official forums were a great place for it since the developers heard this people and made the changes necessary to make the game better. Here is just a place to vent, but if you only have people who agree with you then you might not say all that you need to say.

Will it make the game better for anybody? Most certainly nope. Does it satisfy you to talk to people who are as passionate about this as you? Probably

I like these forums a lot and spend way too much time reading them hahaha

This thread started poorly, and degenerated from there. I think we'll put it to bed.