The minis certainly look nice. As a miniatures guy first, I love that we have some (assumingly) semi-affordable, officially licensed, decently sculpted and cast minis for painting. They aren't resin, or white metal...but they look much better quality than the rubbery ones we got from WotC.
Second, I definitely see these being an asset for the RPG. I'm running Beyond the Rim for my Edge of the Empire group right now, so that nexu sure would come in handy...the only thing I don't like about this announcement is the 'waiting until next year to get my hands on it' part.
News for August 2014
Imperial Assault
Announcing a Board Game of Tactical Combat and STAR WARS (TM) Adventure
Imperial Assault | Published 15 August 2014
Packaging pending licensor approval.
Victory! By destroying the Death Star, the Rebellion has given hope to a galaxy living in fear. The Empire races to recover from their crushing defeat and the loss of their ultimate weapon as the Rebel Alliance works to solidify their advantage. When an Imperial distress beacon begins to broadcast from an remote outpost on Yavin 4, a small team of elite Rebel operatives is dispatched. Their mission: to silence the signal at all costs…
Fantasy Flight Games is proud to announce the upcoming release of Imperial Assault, a Star Wars board game of cinematic adventure and tactical combat for two to five players!
Imperial Assault casts you and your friends into the climatic events following the Death Star’s destruction above Yavin 4, and offers two full game experiences within the Star Wars universe. In the campaign game, you and up to four other friends play a series of thrilling missions woven together in a narrative campaign, and in the skirmish game, you and your opponent muster your own strike teams and battle head-to-head over conflicting objectives.
Two Games in One
The first game included in Imperial Assault is the campaign game, which allows up to five players to enter the Star Wars universe through a narrative story composed of linked missions. One player commands the armed forces of the Galactic Empire, while up to four others play as heroes of the Rebellion, engaging in covert operations and missions. Both the forces of the Empire and the Rebel heroes gain new skills and items throughout the campaign, allowing characters to develop and grow as the story unfolds.
Imperial Assault offers a completely distinct game experience in the skirmish game. Skirmish missions allow you and a friend to compete in head-to-head, tactical combat. You’ll muster your own teams of Imperial, Rebel, and Mercenary forces, and build decks of Command cards, which you can play to gain an unexpected advantage. Each skirmish mission has its own objectives. Whether you recover lost holocrons, or battle to defeat a raiding party, you’ll find danger and tense, tactical choices in every skirmish.
As an added bonus, the Luke Skywalker Ally Pack and the Darth Vader Villain Pack are both included within the Imperial Assault Core Set. You’ll find sculpted plastic figures inside these figure packs alongside new campaign and skirmish missions that highlight Luke Skywalker and Darth Vader within Imperial Assault.
Lead Your Strike Team
Imperial Assault’s campaign game offers you and your friends a narrative campaign with over thirty possible missions. Every mission in Imperial Assault is constructed using some of over fifty double-sided interlocking map tiles, depicting a massive range of Star Wars environments, from the jungles of Yavin 4, to the dusty wastes of Tatooine, to the metallic corridors of an Imperial base.
When playing a campaign, one player commands the limitless forces of the Galactic Empire, including stormtroopers, Imperial officers, AT-ST walkers, assorted mercenaries, and iconic villains such as IG-88 and Darth Vader. The power of the entire Empire is at your fingertips as you outwit, entrap, and exterminate Rebels wherever you find them. Whether you hunt down the Rebel scum with Trandoshan mercenaries, or defend strategic strongpoints with the Royal Guard, the forces of the Empire pose a dire threat to the Rebel Alliance.
Up to four other players oppose the might of the Empire during the campaign game, each playing as an elite Rebel operative and sometimes fighting alongside well-known characters like Luke Skywalker and Han Solo. You might take on the role of a smuggler, a Wookiee warrior, or even a Force user as you strive to defeat the Empire’s schemes. Every hero also features his own Class cards, allowing your character to learn new skills and abilities over the course of the campaign.
Campaign missions test your skills to the limit as the heroes and the Imperial player battle to dominate the mission with the figures they control. Whenever you activate a figure, you may take two actions. You can move, attack with melee or ranged attacks, open doors, investigate crates for useful items, or rest to recover strain and damage. The actions you choose and the way you execute them are crucial to the success of every mission. For more information on actions, visit the description page, and check back for future Imperial Assault previews.
When playing the Rebels, you and your fellow heroes must coordinate your actions and work as a team to defeat the superior numbers of the Imperial player, scorching the air with blaster fire as you strive to complete the mission’s objective. The heroes must move quickly, however, because the Empire’s reserves are limitless. When you play as an Imperial player, every round increases your threat dial. Threat can be spent to replenish squads and summon reinforcements, bringing you closer to crushing the Rebel strike team beneath your armed forces.
During a campaign mission, only the Imperial player has access to all of the mission’s information, meaning the heroes never know exactly what traps may await. The Droid you’re looking for may be behind a door, but you don’t know if it’s unguarded, or if you’ll see the ominous figure of Darth Vader when you open the door.
All is not lost for the brave heroes of the Rebel Alliance, however. Both the heroes and the Imperial player have a chance to prepare for surprises during the campaign by using their experience to learn new skills, and their credits to purchase new weapons and survival gear.
Choose Your Missions and Your Gear
You’ll find a host of different missions, objectives, enemies, and allies throughout the Imperial Assault campaign. As the campaign progresses, your available missions can change dramatically based on the outcomes of past missions. With the variety of side missions included in Imperial Assault, you’ll never encounter the same campaign twice. You may be captured while investigating an Imperial base, or an old friend may suddenly call in some favors. Whether your mission is stealing data from encrypted Imperial consoles, silencing an Imperial distress beacon, or helping Han Solo settle his debts, every mission puts you in the center of the action in the Star Wars universe.
An armory of items and class cards for both Imperials and Rebels adds further replayability to your games of Imperial Assault. Whether you’re playing as a smuggler, a renegade, or another hero of the Rebellion, you can continue to grow and gain skills and abilities that match your specialization. You can also earn credits over the course of the campaign to buy items ranging from blaster pistols to vibroaxes, complete with modifications such as a tactical display or a spread barrel. As the heroes gather equipment and experience, the Empire is not idle. Throughout the campaign, the Empire also has the opportunity to enhance its military might, technological superiority, and subversive tactics.
Battle Head-to-Head
In addition to a campaign of missions, you’ll be able to take on your friend in one of six two-player, head-to-head skirmish missions by mustering your own squads of Imperials, Rebels, or Mercenaries. Each of the skirmish missions included within Imperial Assault thrusts you and a friend into direct combat.
In a standard skirmish mission, you and your friend separately assemble teams of soldiers with iconic heroes and villains from the classic Star Wars films, and build decks of Command cards to give your warriors unexpected advantages in battle. Between choosing heroes, villains, and squads from three distinct factions, and building a command deck out of dozens of possible command cards, you’ll have plenty of options for customizing your strike force.
During the mission itself, you and your opponent battle over conflicting objectives. Whether you’re racing to escape with a deadly T-16 Skyhopper, or collecting contraband for the Hutts, you’ll find high stakes and tense, tactical combat in every Imperial Assault skirmish mission. You’ll be able to learn more about the skirmish game in future previews of Imperial Assault.
Father and Son
As an added bonus, the Luke Skywalker Ally Pack and the Darth Vader Villain Pack are both included in the Imperial Assault Core Set. Each pack contains a sculpted plastic figure, alongside an additional campaign side mission and two new skirmish missions using a common map. Together, these two figure packs give you a total of thirty-two campaign missions and six skirmish missions within Imperial Assault! These packs bring added life to both Luke Skywalker and Darth Vader, and they mark the beginning of Ally Packs and Villain Packs that will expand and support your games of Imperial Assault.
Imperial Troops Advancing
Imperial Assault offers a wealth of Star Wars action, split across two full games with dozens of missions. Will you lead your elite team of Rebel operatives to the heart of the Imperial plan in the campaign game, or will you compete with a single opponent over crucial objectives in the skirmish game? For more information on gameplay in Imperial Assault, visit the description page and look for previews in coming weeks.
Find Imperial Assault at your local retailer early in 2015!
and
As a bonus, the Imperial Assault Core Set includes both the Luke Skywalker Ally Pack and the Darth Vader Villain Pack. Both of these packs include a sculpted plastic figure to replace the token found in the Imperial Assault Core Set. In addition to the detailed plastic figure, each figure pack includes two skirmish missions using the same map and a campaign side mission highlighting the character included in the pack. You may gather new recruits for the Rebel Alliance or hunt down Luke Skywalker with Darth Vader using the missions included in these figure packs.
Additional Ally Packs and Villain Packs will be the first expansions released for Imperial Assault, bringing added life to the iconic heroes and villains you fight alongside. Each of these packs includes a sculpted plastic figure, alongside a new campaign side mission, two new skirmish missions, and Command cards to enhance your skirmish missions.
Whether you complete missions for Rebel High Command or seek to destroy the Rebels on the behalf of the Galactic Empire, Imperial Assault invites you to step into the Star Wars universe. Play in a series of campaign missions and gain experience and items with up to five players, and play the head-to-head skirmish game with a friend, mustering your teams and clashing over key objectives. Gather your strike force or ready your stormtroopers, and prepare for Star Wars adventure!
I've resisted X-Wing and will probably be able to resist..Armada?
Nice looking walker. Wish someone would finally get the wargaming licence and start producing proper plastic Star Wars kits. Would kill for decent Stormtroopers.
I never knew just how much I needed Descent: Star Wars edition in my life until just now. Pretty excited for this. Hopefully the skirmish game is good as well, I have enough WotC minis to napoleonics with and I'm always itching to find new ways to use em!
Why would Mantic be concerned? They don't have a SW license, their sci-fi minis/board game hybrid has been out for most of this year already with a 2nd wave about to hit soon and this won't be out for another 6ish months. Mantic's dungeoncrawler KS is competing with Descent (which has been out for a while) and not this. I think you'll find more people in the "I need both" camp than the "nevermind Mantic, I'll just wait for Star Wars Assault" camp. There's a bit of overlap, just like any game, but they're far enough apart I don't think they'll step on each other's toes too much
If anything, Prodos should be. Board game and skirmish rulesets, major sci-fi IP, it's looking a lot like a competitor for AVP. Of course, as I customer, I quote Tony Stark: 'is it too much to ask for both?'
Paradigm wrote: If anything, Prodos should be. Board game and skirmish rulesets, major sci-fi IP, it's looking a lot like a competitor for AVP. Of course, as I customer, I quote Tony Stark: 'is it too much to ask for both?'
I think Prodos have the backup plan of plain wargaming rules for the AvP line if the board game doesn't fare too well.
What seems quite interesting here is that they seem to have a ready-made solution to the "nobody wants to be the Overlord/Dungeon Master/Big Baddie" since many people would actually LOVE the chance to lead the Imperial side which clears one of the major hurdles this genre often faces. To also build it around the idea of also being a skirmish game gives me hope it will be a bit more balanced than dungeon-crawlers tend to be (where they are usually slanted in favor of the heroes) though given the overall themes of Star Wars it wouldn't be surprising if it's just standard fare "good guys have the upper hand" there either.
Still, the mere concept has me interested and excited. Hopefully all the models will be sold in packs since I doubt they'll give you enough stormtroopers in the box (mainly because the idea of "enough" really doesn't exist... )
I'm keeping my dungeon saga pledge.. I think that game is coming along nicely, and it's a fantasy game.. sometimes you want to play with swords, sometimes you want to play with lightsabers.
May as well get both and go back to ramen noodles for a while
So looking forward to this. My hobby funds are being diverted to this - sorry Dungeon Saga but what I've seen so far doesn't make me want to stop playing Advanced Heroquest and swap to DS.
You're the first person I've heard expressing any kind of fondness for Mace Windu
I think you should probably expect the game to move forward with Episode VII, rather than backwards. From what I've heard, some of the creative powers behind SW don't really want to remind anyone that the prequel trilogy ever happened. Not too much at any rate.
Awesome. I'll be getting the minis for he adapted Deadzone rules ive been using for the WotC minis. If there'sany god FFG will be releasing some Clone Wars era iminis too.
I'm trying to figure out what this has to do with Mantic's Dungeon Saga, other than the fact that there are minis on tiles. Pay for one soon, pay for the other later.
I like that it's probably based on Descent. Will we get to loot Imperial corpses though?
Just give me a Sith All Star team and I'll plunk down the cash for this- Revan, Malak, Krayt, Talon, Plagueis... fun times!
It's interesting, but as it's Star Wars: Descent, it's going to have 8 billion expansions. The amount of tiles presented in that preview look pretty meagre. Everything looks so cramped.
And people said, "oh the big things the FFG CEO was talking about coming in 2014 aren't Star Wars related. FFG isn't slowly invading GWs market with its Star Wars license. X-Wing isn't really a miniatures game. FFG is putting out SO MUCH Warhammer stuff..."
Yea, whatcha sayin' now? I hate to say I told you so but...no, I don't hate that at all. I friggin told you so. This and Armada was what the FFG CEO was referring to. Not a new Disckwars product.
weeble1000 wrote: And people said, "oh the big things the FFG CEO was talking about coming in 2014 aren't Star Wars related. FFG isn't slowly invading GWs market with its Star Wars license. X-Wing isn't really a miniatures game. FFG is putting out SO MUCH Warhammer stuff..."
Yea, whatcha sayin' now? I hate to say I told you so but...no, I don't hate that at all. I friggin told you so. This and Armada was what the FFG CEO was referring to. Not a new Disckwars product.
Eh whatever. You can blame GW for failing to do its job as a gaming company and, you know, put out games?
None of what FFG has been doing would have been difficult for GW to do. It's time to let blame fall where it should go. FFG is making games, GW failed to do so and tried to pawn it off on someone else that ended up finding a better deal.
H.B.M.C. wrote: It's interesting, but as it's Star Wars: Descent, it's going to have 8 billion expansions. The amount of tiles presented in that preview look pretty meagre. Everything looks so cramped.
Ah... yep, that's what's bugging me. I think that I'm having a hard time reconciling the look of the films, the Dark Forces/Force Unleashed/SWTOR/Empire at War spaces that you move around in with a cramped dungeon crawler feel.
I mean I like the tiles as they are presented, and they say that there are 50 of them (although a good chunk of that will likely be the 1x2 "end space" tiles), and as their FFG tiles they're likely to work with other tiles they've made (like the fantastic DOOM tiles)... but still, it seems to be so few.
Sorry, I know this seems padantic, but tiles and maps are kinda my "thing". I own almost every Paizo flip-mat and GF9 D&D map, along with multiple sets of DOOM, Space Hulk (every edition), Warhammer Quest, Tyranid Attack, double sets of tiles for every Zombicide box, two sets of Sedition War tiles, double sets of Rivet War tiles, two or sometimes three of every BattleTech map sheet ever made, went into the Alien vs Predator Kickstarter and just bought the tiles, got all the Super Dungeon Explore tiles, almost every Armoured Cartographer/Maps of Mastery/Christopher West map he's ever designed (including the 8 maps that he just Kickstarted) all the current D&D paper maps, and sometimes up to four of most of the D&D tile sets. Hell I even have the Starship Trooper RPG floor tiles! I like maps, and I like having options. These tiles don't appear to give very many. And yes, tiles are important enough to me that I will buy games even if the game itself doesn't interest me (I've never played a game of DOOM in my life, yet I have two sets).
Tiles don't do a lot for me but I love the idea of a combo dungeon bash / skirmish ruleset. I'm hoping battle systems terrain will go nicely with it (I keep saying that it seems...):
FFG getting lots of my monies with 3 good games I want now, not to mention the RPGs. I have to say that this puts a lot of pressure on my Mantic Dungeon Saga pledge. I'm happy to get both, but DS will need to be better than it currently is.
warboss wrote: Looks basically like a Star Wars flavored Descent style game which is probably a good thing.
That's exactly how it was described at the IN-Flight report at GenCon.
Star Wars Imperial Assault * Sneaky new product they revealed at the presentation. Kits are now at the GenCon booth, but by the time I write this, you probably all know about it.
* It is a miniatures Board Game for Star Wars and is based on their hugely popular Descent Game Engine.
* At release, 30 minis using 13 different sculpts.
* This is 2 games in 1 box! You can either play the board game as is OR you can create customizable lists for head-to-head tournament play.
* 1Q2015 release date and demos started on 8/15/2014 at their GenCon play area.
I don't know. This is a BARELY re-skinned Descent Version 2.0, and from the sound of "Skirmish" game, I am assuming they mean Heroclix level of "mini-war-gaming" at best.
The models seem nice, but this was not the infantry-model based game Star Wars deserves IMO.
weeble1000 wrote: And people said, "oh the big things the FFG CEO was talking about coming in 2014 aren't Star Wars related. FFG isn't slowly invading GWs market with its Star Wars license. X-Wing isn't really a miniatures game. FFG is putting out SO MUCH Warhammer stuff..."
Yea, whatcha sayin' now? I hate to say I told you so but...no, I don't hate that at all. I friggin told you so. This and Armada was what the FFG CEO was referring to. Not a new Disckwars product.
Er...who are you talking to?
There was that thread about the FFG CEO's ICV2 interview. He was talking up X-Wing and and hinting at very exciting things the company is working on. I made some comments about FFG's Star Wars license and the company's growth into ever more direct competition with GW and there was some...rather spirited...disagreement.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
NewTruthNeomaxim wrote: I don't know. This is a BARELY re-skinned Descent Version 2.0, and from the sound of "Skirmish" game, I am assuming they mean Heroclix level of "mini-war-gaming" at best.
The models seem nice, but this was not the infantry-model based game Star Wars deserves IMO.
Baby steps man, baby steps. Star Wars infantry scale miniatures from a successful and growing table top gaming company experiencing substantive growth on the back of a Star Wars license is the tip of the iceberg.
NewTruthNeomaxim wrote: I don't know. This is a BARELY re-skinned Descent Version 2.0, and from the sound of "Skirmish" game, I am assuming they mean Heroclix level of "mini-war-gaming" at best.
The models seem nice, but this was not the infantry-model based game Star Wars deserves IMO.
One step at the time. If this is successful, they can easily expand to tabletop world, and people who bought this have models which probably will be compatible with that.
Two games in same box-approach is clever in principle, of course it remains to be seen how well the "skirmish" game will go over.
Personally I am not interested however, I have played Descent through and through, and there is only so much dungeon crawling I can take.
NewTruthNeomaxim wrote: I don't know. This is a BARELY re-skinned Descent Version 2.0, and from the sound of "Skirmish" game, I am assuming they mean Heroclix level of "mini-war-gaming" at best.
The models seem nice, but this was not the infantry-model based game Star Wars deserves IMO.
Baby steps man, baby steps. Star Wars infantry scale miniatures from a successful and growing table top gaming company experiencing substantive growth on the back of a Star Wars license is the tip of the iceberg.
The important part is the minis being available. After that, 40k, Deadzone, Infinity or Warpath could all be modded to various sizes of Star Wars game.
Baby steps man, baby steps. Star Wars infantry scale miniatures from a successful and growing table top gaming company experiencing substantive growth on the back of a Star Wars license is the tip of the iceberg.
FFG dumps Dust due to Disney's renegotiated license with a non-compete clause. I'd bet money that this is what happened. I also bet this SW:A is the board/skirmish game, with a full 28mm wargame to follow in 2016.
weeble1000 wrote: And people said, "oh the big things the FFG CEO was talking about coming in 2014 aren't Star Wars related. FFG isn't slowly invading GWs market with its Star Wars license. X-Wing isn't really a miniatures game. FFG is putting out SO MUCH Warhammer stuff..."
Yea, whatcha sayin' now? I hate to say I told you so but...no, I don't hate that at all. I friggin told you so. This and Armada was what the FFG CEO was referring to. Not a new Disckwars product.
Er...who are you talking to?
There was that thread about the FFG CEO's ICV2 interview. He was talking up X-Wing and and hinting at very exciting things the company is working on. I made some comments about FFG's Star Wars license and the company's growth into ever more direct competition with GW and there was some...rather spirited...disagreement.
That's quite, eh, interesting way to reminisce it. As I recall it, the disagreement was about the suggestion made by you (or someone like-minded) that a tabletop Star Wars game would immediately make gamers give up 40k and put GW out of business.
Red Viper wrote: Too much. Way too much news this week. Why did I have a second kid?
/passesout
/wakesup
Whew. I hope they have different eras. Three main reasons: young obi wan, darth maul, mace windu.
Plus, then maybe we could go waaay back and get some real badass sith and Jedi. Have some all star skirmish games...
/passesout
YES. The Old Republic would be a great time to set it. They also need to have a Hutt smuggler/bounty hunter faction.
That AT-ST looks pretty great IMO, figures look solid in general. Many of the WOTC pre-paints weren't bad sculpts if you stripped off the goopy thick paint. Hopefully its the same scale.
Baby steps man, baby steps. Star Wars infantry scale miniatures from a successful and growing table top gaming company experiencing substantive growth on the back of a Star Wars license is the tip of the iceberg.
FFG dumps Dust due to Disney's renegotiated license with a non-compete clause. I'd bet money that this is what happened. I also bet this SW:A is the board/skirmish game, with a full 28mm wargame to follow in 2016.
I bet you're right. I was a devoted Dust player, and i'm sorry but their excuse for selling the brand did not fly at the time, nor now. They claimed they were not a "miniatures company" and couldn't really support the game in a tournament way, etc... while at the same time building the titan that is X-wing.
If you guys are correct though I will likely be thrilled. FFG DOES have the resources and sense to build amazing, competitive miniatures games. X-wing isn't just doing well because it is Star Wars... it is partly doing well because the rules are clean, simple, and *ahem* a weapon for a more civilized age, all while being priced well-enough.
A company that keeps all those values in the mix would definitely be the kind of company I would like to see steward a real 28mm war-game.
And lets be honest... a monkey could write cleaner rules than modern 40k.... so something a hair lighter, a lot clearer, and featuring large numbers of Star Wars models, vehicles, etc... that would be a dream-come-true. If you think they're rocking my wallet now... i'd be DOOMED if they did this one. ;-)
weeble1000 wrote: And people said, "oh the big things the FFG CEO was talking about coming in 2014 aren't Star Wars related. FFG isn't slowly invading GWs market with its Star Wars license. X-Wing isn't really a miniatures game. FFG is putting out SO MUCH Warhammer stuff..."
Yea, whatcha sayin' now? I hate to say I told you so but...no, I don't hate that at all. I friggin told you so. This and Armada was what the FFG CEO was referring to. Not a new Disckwars product.
Er...who are you talking to?
There was that thread about the FFG CEO's ICV2 interview. He was talking up X-Wing and and hinting at very exciting things the company is working on. I made some comments about FFG's Star Wars license and the company's growth into ever more direct competition with GW and there was some...rather spirited...disagreement.
That's quite, eh, interesting way to reminisce it. As I recall it, the disagreement was about the suggestion made by you (or someone like-minded) that a tabletop Star Wars game would immediately make gamers give up 40k and put GW out of business.
That's quite, eh, interesting way to reminisce it. As I recall it, that was how...certain...individuals selectively misinterpreted what I had said.
weeble1000 wrote: It means FFG doesn't need GW, doesn't care about GW, and will happily let other products eclipse GW.
"In terms of continuity, we’ve been very happy to work with Lucasfilm; frankly they are a great licensor (and I don’t say that because I have to)."
In other words, GW is a terrible licensor and I'm much happier working with Star Wars, and making a lot more money. In fact, Star Wars is a much better license than LoTR, so, Hey GW, go feth yourselves! Oh, and a little salt in the wound for you, our LoTR LCG is doing GREAT!
That's what I said after reading the interview, and some people seemed to take offense to the way in which I imagined the FFG CEO giving GW the proverbial finger in a tongue and cheek manner.
Later, I said the following:
weeble1000 wrote: The point is that FFG has acquired a license that GW is terrified of: Star Wars. Star Wars not only dwarfs the profit-fueling power of GW's LoTR license and buries the needle compared to Warhammer 40K, but FFGalso has a license to LoTR and is producing more successful products with that license than GW is.
With all of that context, you don't find it significant that the FFG CEO does not mention GW at all? I think the writing on the wall is plain for anyone to see. FFG is not beholden to GW, FFG is not dependent on GW, and FFG is a fast-growing threat to GW's market share.
and this:
weeble1000 wrote: Because FFG got a license to Star Wars, it was able to launch a table top miniatures game that unequivocally competes directly with Games Workshop's products. And it has thus far been a very successful product with acres of expansion potential. That's the danger and that's why Star Wars makes GW nervous. If it doesn't, it should. FFG has spun Star Wars into a successful RPG, LCG, and table top miniature wargame with a font of raw potential remaining.
And now we are seeing the beginnings of exactly what I was talking about: "a font of raw potential remaining." Now FFG has a starfighter skirmish game, a capital ship game, and an infantry scale boxed game with a skirmish game allegedly in the pipe. And a LCG and an RPG on top of that.
The problem is that you seem to have interpreted the phrase "fast-growing threat to GW's market share" as "the suggestion...that a tabletop Star Wars game would immediately make gamers give up 40k and put GW out of business."
As I said, selective misinterpretation. So before you go around starting off topic debates about who said what, maybe you should re-read the original thread. I remember what I wrote. You clearly do not.
FFG is really getting good use out of that license.
I just got deadzone last week. I will play that for now, but I'm keeping a very close eye on this. I'll likely get this anyway just for a sci fi dungeon crawler, but if the skirmish game is as good as FFGs other products, I could see it taking over for Deadzone.
This has me more excited than X Wing ever did because, well, lightsabers.
If they mash up eras, I will go crazy. I foresee FFG getting a lot of my money the next year, especially with another Star Wars trilogy about to come out.
Genius moves by FFG. It's funny when companies that make strategy games are so poor at strategy in real life. Certainly not the case with FFG.
If there is a proper tabletop wargame made down the line, I hope it's based off the prequels as imo ground combat was better developed for it, not to mention more balanced. It's *not* just because I love Droidekas...
Hasnt seemed to stop FFG currently. 3 games in rapid succession as well as having 3 new movies coming out over the next few years to build rights and new minis and games.
I'd say FFG is in the best position to do it very rapidly.
Who knows, Disney could even buy GW. Niche for them - but leverage for the future.
Uriels_Flame wrote: If this is the beginning of the evolution of 40k -> SW, I'm in.
Be careful. Lucas was notorious for not renewing licenses. I'm not sure how Disney is but I don't see any evidence they'll change.
You can set your watch by it.
FFG is now riding the Gravy Train. Jump on for a ride for the fresh new car smell while it is hot. Wonder if they scale up with those figures in Toys R us I saw that were on par with Castles and Catapults: the Star Wars Edition?
Anyone see these figures in the flesh, do they come in hard plastic, or are they board game piece plastic?
How will they sell these figures in expansion form?
34 minis for 100 bucks? I've seen people complain about more minis for a similar price, though the $70 discounted preorder makes it look a bit more enticing. And the walker is pretty damn beefy too.
I'm still kind of burnt out from GenCon, I skimmed the description, did they say what type of plastic? Had I known this was under the big FFG flags I might have checked it out. I kind of skipped them 'cause I haven't felt like getting into the space battles with ships scene as of yet.
Depending on how you're supposed to use the tiles, Battle Systems looks like a good fit for this (unless you want ultra tight corridors and really cramped spaces, BS tends to be a little more sprawling).
I'll personally be abstaining, I'm not sure how I feel about the tiles and whatnot, and it looks almost overly complicated with the gear cards and stuff. Plus I only kind of like star wars, maybe as an RPG setting, otherwise it only pushes some buttons for me, not a lot. Deadzone and Infinity will likely remain my skirmish games of choice, though I certainly wouldn't turn down playing a game of this with someone else's set in the future...
I'd personally be interested in it to use for my RPG gaming adventures. If there is a nice selection on NPC models, $2-3 a model wouldn't be outrageous.
Right now I'm just hoping they for something similar to Zombicide's box o' zombies format for extra figures.
Ahh, yes, I wasn't descriptive enough. I was talking about the same situation with my comment. I fully realize it isn't just 34 dudes in a cardboard box with some packing peanuts
Though, from my perspective where I am more likely to get most of my mileage out of the painting of the models, the tiles, cards, and even the rule system are not necessarily as valuable to me as they may be someone else. It's all subjective.
I wasn't trying to say it sounded overpriced so much as I was trying to say I've heard others call similar products as such. When you consider the fact that it's a major IP you kind of have to expect a little bloat from that too anyway. Plus it's Star Wars, that will matter first for a lot of people before the value.
Star Wars is a big selling point for me yeah. I love the really expanded settings that I can wallow in, so long as they don't get trashed by Murderfaces... though I imagine if I dug around in SW deep enough I'd run across some pretty bad fluff ; p
adamsouza wrote: I'd personally be interested in it to use for my RPG gaming adventures. If there is a nice selection on NPC models, $2-3 a model wouldn't be outrageous.
Hmm...
I hadn't considered the "companion" side of this, where the models pull double duty for the SWRPG's. Now that is interesting.
That's quite, eh, interesting way to reminisce it. As I recall it, the disagreement was about the suggestion made by you (or someone like-minded) that a tabletop Star Wars game would immediately make gamers give up 40k and put GW out of business.
That's quite, eh, interesting way to reminisce it. As I recall it, that was how...certain...individuals selectively misinterpreted what I had said.
No, that was pretty much exactly what was said in the thread. Don't recall if it was you or someone else, though.
weeble1000 wrote: It means FFG doesn't need GW, doesn't care about GW, and will happily let other products eclipse GW.
"In terms of continuity, we’ve been very happy to work with Lucasfilm; frankly they are a great licensor (and I don’t say that because I have to)."
In other words, GW is a terrible licensor and I'm much happier working with Star Wars, and making a lot more money. In fact, Star Wars is a much better license than LoTR, so, Hey GW, go feth yourselves! Oh, and a little salt in the wound for you, our LoTR LCG is doing GREAT!
That's what I said after reading the interview, and some people seemed to take offense to the way in which I imagined the FFG CEO giving GW the proverbial finger in a tongue and cheek manner.
And you wonder why, because that was truly stupid conclusion to make from the interview.
Back on topic, the game's figures presumably will all be in good scale with each other if not with 40K or whatever specific other game you might pick.
Therefore a couple of boxes will give you a substantial officially licensed Star Wars infantry skirmish setup to use with whatever rules and terrain you like, as well as the stuff in the box.
All that is needed is a Rebel vehicle of some kind to oppose the AT-ST. It would be surprising if wargamers' ingenuity could not find a reasonable model to sub in.
I really hope this influences WizKids to make a chintzy Star Trek skirmish/board game. (And not that Heroclix crap.)
The only thing that interests me about this game is the possibility of buying booster packs of stormtroopers or characters, so long as the price is right.
Kilkrazy wrote: Back on topic, the game's figures presumably will all be in good scale with each other if not with 40K or whatever specific other game you might pick.
Therefore a couple of boxes will give you a substantial officially licensed Star Wars infantry skirmish setup to use with whatever rules and terrain you like, as well as the stuff in the box.
All that is needed is a Rebel vehicle of some kind to oppose the AT-ST. It would be surprising if wargamers' ingenuity could not find a reasonable model to sub in.
Agreed. Even if the rules are overly complicated, it would be far from impossible to mod Deadzone/Infinity maybe for smaller battles and 40k for larger ones.
I've stayed out of X-wing as the models just aren't worth the price for me, being so tiny and pre-painted, but assuming these are 28mm and hopefully more reasonably priced (And by that I really mean anywhere between Mantic and GW pricing. I'd pay up to £20 easily for a decent box of Stormtroopers ect) I'll be buying some just for using with other game systems even if I pass on the boardgame (I'm not a fan of games on tiles)
adamsouza wrote: I'd personally be interested in it to use for my RPG gaming adventures. If there is a nice selection on NPC models, $2-3 a model wouldn't be outrageous.
Hmm...
I hadn't considered the "companion" side of this, where the models pull double duty for the SWRPG's. Now that is interesting.
The whole license intercombines perfectly, in exactly the way GW's specialist games and RPGs did, before they somehow got the idea that product diversity was a bad thing. There's something for every tabletop gaming, Star Wars fan, regardless of your favourite genre of gameplay.
And each game has big hooks to encourage purchasing another. Superb. My wallet is crying.
The only thing ostensibly missing is a mass land battle game, but I'd bet my left testicle that there's an AT-AT vs Snowspeeder box set in development somewhere at FFG.
Yeah, using my completely untrained eye they seem to be in the realm of 28mm, and no worse than 32mm. There's a shot of the stormtroopers next to some dice, and if those are "standard" size cards then my guess would be that they're 16mm dice, and the stormtrooper (with a wide stance and lowered torso) seems like he'd be a bit shorter than two of those dice on top of each other. Hard to judge for certain using assumptions and wonky angles, but it's close enough for my liking.
This and Armada is going to drain my early year budget badly, but I suppose there's worse problems in this world too.
The Luke Skywalker Ally Pack & The Darth Vader Villain Pack
which strongly suggests that you'll be able to pick up all (most of?) the minis without the rest of the box game (otherwise it would just say X plastic minis)
And as a few have pointed out - you don't have to play their rules necessarily. If the tiles aren't your thing, there's plenty of "other" terrain you can use and give it a go.
2 starters and a couple of add on packs for about $200 seems pretty worth while to me.
The price seems reasonable enough, especially as with £79 including 36 minis and a ton of cards/counters, the minis themselves will be pretty cheap if available separately.
The Luke Skywalker Ally Pack & The Darth Vader Villain Pack
which strongly suggests that you'll be able to pick up all (most of?) the minis without the rest of the box game (otherwise it would just say X plastic minis)
Didn't someone mention that the Luke and Vader packs were added extras, rather than part of the core game?
There were only a few models in the display case. Here is what I got pictures of. I was in a hurry to another event. They're about 28mm, so useful for the board game itself or RPGs or whatever.
I'm sure it will come prebuilt or mostly prebuilt like the dust tactics mechs were.. hopefully you'll be able to pop the legs off, I like to paint big stuff in pieces.. I hate when my brush can't reach teeny corners even though no one is gonna see it.
I'd bet they're done by the same factory who does DUST, and we'd be looking at $14.99 ish for a 6-pack of models. (Maybe 19.99 to cover licensing costs)
Alex C wrote: It says right on FFG's website description that Luke and Vader come in the core game.
It also says that they are the first expansions. Which is why they are listed separately in the contents.
FFG wrote:As an added bonus, Imperial Assault includes the Darth Vader Villain Pack and the Luke Skywalker Ally Pack. These figure packs mark the first expansions for Imperial Assault, adding sculpted plastic figures with new campaign and skirmish missions.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
12thRonin wrote: Are they the same sculpts as the old WotC game or are they new sculpts?
Like if you wanted to maybe get your own dudes and you already had a friend with the full box and tiles and such. But they gave them in the full box 'cause luke and vader.
adamsouza wrote: I'd personally be interested in it to use for my RPG gaming adventures. If there is a nice selection on NPC models, $2-3 a model wouldn't be outrageous.
Hmm...
I hadn't considered the "companion" side of this, where the models pull double duty for the SWRPG's. Now that is interesting.
Get back in the box, WRITE that beautiful Jawa footage!!!
Return of the Jawa, For a Few Jawa's more, Donny Jawa, Jawa's of the Caribbean, Fistfull of Jawa's....
judgedoug wrote: I'd bet they're done by the same factory who does DUST, and we'd be looking at $14.99 ish for a 6-pack of models. (Maybe 19.99 to cover licensing costs)
I can't see any reason for them to use the DUST factory over their other existing manufacturer/s who already produce all of their other boardgame plastic stuff, like Descent, Talisman, etc etc. These don't seem to be modular/multipart like the DUST figures, with the AT-ST being a slight exception.
12thRonin wrote: Are they the same sculpts as the old WotC game or are they new sculpts?
The old sculpts would be owned by WotC, not FFG, so I expect new sculpts.
I haven't seen anything but the core set get any mention of a price point...its possible they haven't nailed it down to the dollar quite yet. I can imagine they will likely use the Decent expansion model to a certain extent...say 6 to 8 minis (good guys and bad) with new rules and a couple of new missions themed to the set...and then add licensing fees on top of that...so maybe $39.95? I can see the hero expansion packs (like Luke and Vader) being priced at $14.95 each...maybe a pack of 4 Storm Troopers (variant poses/weapons) for $19.85 (likely to be their best seller). Singles will likely be no less than $9.95.
judgedoug wrote: I'd bet they're done by the same factory who does DUST, and we'd be looking at $14.99 ish for a 6-pack of models. (Maybe 19.99 to cover licensing costs)
I can't see any reason for them to use the DUST factory over their other existing manufacturer/s who already produce all of their other boardgame plastic stuff, like Descent, Talisman, etc etc. These don't seem to be modular/multipart like the DUST figures, with the AT-ST being a slight exception.
Models holding guns with gaps between their arms and chest, and large vehicles.
judgedoug wrote: I'd bet they're done by the same factory who does DUST, and we'd be looking at $14.99 ish for a 6-pack of models. (Maybe 19.99 to cover licensing costs)
I can't see any reason for them to use the DUST factory over their other existing manufacturer/s who already produce all of their other boardgame plastic stuff, like Descent, Talisman, etc etc. These don't seem to be modular/multipart like the DUST figures, with the AT-ST being a slight exception.
Models holding guns with gaps between their arms and chest, and large vehicles.
The former is easily done with normal moulds. Plenty of the PVC WotC SW figures were doing exactly that. Large vehicles might work differently though - but again, very possible in PVC or even more easily done using whioever does the X-Wing ships (though without paint).
H.B.M.C. wrote: Oh cool! Expansion boxes for infantry. I wonder... oh... $14.95 for three rebel troops.
Ok then...
I think how the pricing is perceived is going to come down to how many minis you need to play the game. This looks more like 'skirmish/board game' sized, if so that isn't too bad (although realise there is going to be the temptation for some to use these to re-create Hoth and the like!)
I do like the look of some of those 'saboteurs' and the IG88 though!
H.B.M.C. wrote: Oh cool! Expansion boxes for infantry. I wonder... oh... $14.95 for three rebel troops.
Ok then...
That's roughly on par with other skirmish/board game small expansions, particularly once you account for paying for the license and that jacking up the price a bit. Space Marines are what, 4 bucks each for grunts?
H.B.M.C. wrote: Oh cool! Expansion boxes for infantry. I wonder... oh... $14.95 for three rebel troops.
Ok then...
I think how the pricing is perceived is going to come down to how many minis you need to play the game. This looks more like 'skirmish/board game' sized, if so that isn't too bad (although realise there is going to be the temptation for some to use these to re-create Hoth and the like!)
I do like the look of some of those 'saboteurs' and the IG88 though!
While I agree I'd also add that they'd be compared to X-wing prices as well at least for the character figs. $5 less for a much simpler one piece unpainted fig doesn't seem too much out of the pattern set by X-wing. I still personally am not interested but I don't feel like they're overpricing the stuff like I did when the Armada news came out.
I like everything about this game so far except the fact that each peon model has exactly the same pose....even the saboteur, two of the exact same model. I see they have cleverly placed each one at a different angle to make them look different. Ugh. I guess being a minis guy first....used to ranking up 40 to 50 individually posed and unique models in a unit...this mono-pose solution just chaps my hide.
Fango wrote: I like everything about this game so far except the fact that each peon model has exactly the same pose....even the saboteur, two of the exact same model. I see they have cleverly placed each one at a different angle to make them look different. Ugh. I guess being a minis guy first....used to ranking up 40 to 50 individually posed and unique models in a unit...this mono-pose solution just chaps my hide.
Yeah, I'm itching for some Star Wars skirmish stuff, the scale is super appealing as it would be compatible with any other terrain I'm working on for 40k and Infinity.
The pose repetition is a bit of a killer though, especially with guys like the saboteur.
Price is fine honestly, maybe that's a horrible commentary on my warped expectations, but for a skirmish game, I'm ok with $5 rebel troopers.
I also get the feeling this'll wind up like X-wing where you're expected to buy models you have zero interest in just to get specific upgrade cards.
The Rebel Transport being the worst offender.
Also have to wonder if they'll be coming out with a 2nd edition in a year or two that lets you use the campaign rewards cards in skirmish mode. I wasn't the only one on the FFG forums who'd have preferred a Necromunda style campaign to FFG's typical competitive tournament meta for the skirmish.
I'm more interested in the models to use with other generic systems, unless the skirmish mode turns out to be awesome.
The AT-ST is still wicked.
I'll be buying the veteran AT-ST and running it through a "destroy all the walls" mission to commemorate the epic frustratathon that is Star Wars Commander.
I do really like the idea of using the descent dice system for a miniature skirmish game, even if it's more like a boardgame still.
I've been testing out designs for a full tabletop miniature game using specialty dice like SWIA/Descent.
Although, the system does seem to be more of a constant damage that's tracked over time system. Compared to most wargames where it's 1 wound for most things and it's over.
It will certainly be interesting to see how the larger models - such as the AT-ST - compare with their WotC predecessors. For the infantry sized minis I have a feeling we are looking at something close to (Reaper) Bones quality. A bit better - and less spindly - than most of the WotC minis but still a bit soft and bendy for most people's liking.
Why are Chewie, Han, IG88 and the Royal Guard all the same in USD from FFG, but Chewie is £5 more expensive over here while the AT-ST costs as much as the other infantry characters? I know VAT adds to the cost, but surely they've got Chewie and Weiss priced the wrong way around?
This game may just end up being too expensive for me after all.
EDIT: Something's really odd here, looking at it more. The character models have got a huge price bump from the RRP.
Han Solo, from FFG, is $9.95, which equates (when you add in VAT) comes to £7.47. The actual UK price, with Wayland's discount, is £11.69, almost 40% more again over the RRP+VAT.
The Rebel Trooper set is $14.95 from FFG, and in pounds with VAT comes to £11.96, and the asking price is about right for that. General Weiss is a significant discount over the RRP when converted, Chewie is about twice as much.
Anyone have any idea why this is so all-over-the-place?
I think the problem is at this point we have (as far as I know) only the one retailer offering the game for pre-order.
Wayland are often very early with this kind of thing, it might be worthwhile waiting a month or two when it starts appearing on other sites, and then we can be assured that the GBP price is genuine.
I've been really excited about this since it was announced. Seriously can't wait.
Is Waylands release date to be trusted? February 27? I couldn't find anything on FFG's website. If that's the release date then there's plenty of time to put money aside, because I'm very much getting this.
Aesop the God Awful wrote: I've been really excited about this since it was announced. Seriously can't wait.
Is Waylands release date to be trusted? February 27? I couldn't find anything on FFG's website. If that's the release date then there's plenty of time to put money aside, because I'm very much getting this.
Also, loving that they do IG-88!
I use Wayland alot, and I do love them, but you have to understand that any release date WILL change. Multiple times.
TheCustomLime wrote: 15 dollars for three monopose grunts? I... wow. That's pretty steep for plastic monopose miniatures.
Yeah it is, but to me it depends on how much a booster adds to the core game. They come with rules and a whole lot of stuff to use in the game, so they're clearly gaming pieces primarily, and not miniatures for the painter/collector.
It's a bit of a shame really, given how popular a universe Star Wars is. But again, if those three grunts will provide game changing elements then it might be a fair price if you play the game. I'm just gonna have to wait and see.
I agree and disagree. I agree with you that if three men make an appreciable contribution to the overall gaming experience that justifies a $15 dollar purchase then it is worth it if your sole interest is in the game. However, as a miniature collector who wants this stuff for both the miniatures and the gaming experience I think it's highway robbery. 5 dollars per model is pretty expensive. Admitedly, I don't have the same foible with X-wing stuff but a TIE/ln Starfighter box contains the complete "package" for me while the Rebel trooper does not. A TIE/ln fighter is only one fighter meaning I buy the box and the unit is functionally complete not to mention prepainted. Rebel soldiers come in squads, though. Squads typically larger than three men. I believe standard size is 10 men meaning I'd have to buy four (Seriously, why can't miniatures be packed in multiples of five?) meaning I'd have to drop $60 to get the complete "package". $60. I could get a Tactical squad for that. A Space Marine tactical squad doesn't come with the stats and rules, admittedly, but it's also $20 cheaper and they're fully customizable with multiple options for weapons, heads, legs, shoulders pads and etc.
Maybe I'm just too much of a military miniature gamer and that I demand that everything is delivered to me in the fashion of military miniatures. I suppose whether or not the Rebel trooper box is worth it depends on where you place the value at.
Nowhere. I'm just saying that I like collecting complete squads so that'll skew my perception of the value of the box. Some, or most, may not share my sentiment so the pricing point wont sting as much.
TheCustomLime wrote: Nowhere. I'm just saying that I like collecting complete squads so that'll skew my perception of the value of the box. Some, or most, may not share my sentiment so the pricing point wont sting as much.
Yeah, I rather suspect that most people will be placing value on them as a supplement for the game that they were made for.
The people who buy them probably will. But then, I won't be buying them because I care more about them as minis than as supplements for a game I realistically will never play.
TheCustomLime wrote: Nowhere. I'm just saying that I like collecting complete squads so that'll skew my perception of the value of the box. Some, or most, may not share my sentiment so the pricing point wont sting as much.
Yeah, I rather suspect that most people will be placing value on them as a supplement for the game that they were made for.
Right. So... I guess I have nothing more to say on the matter. It's pricey if you want it for the minis, it's decent if you want the game.
Moving on, that AT-St alone is enough to entice me to the game. I've always wanted to paint an Imperial walker. I can't wait for an AT-AT.
TheCustomLime wrote: Nowhere. I'm just saying that I like collecting complete squads so that'll skew my perception of the value of the box. Some, or most, may not share my sentiment so the pricing point wont sting as much.
Yeah, I rather suspect that most people will be placing value on them as a supplement for the game that they were made for.
Right. So... I guess I have nothing more to say on the matter. It's pricey if you want it for the minis, it's decent if you want the game.
Moving on, that AT-St alone is enough to entice me to the game. I've always wanted to paint an Imperial walker. I can't wait for an AT-AT.
I've seen one of these in the plastic and it should take a new paint job pretty well. It was for sale, too, and I totally regret not buying it for the ~$30 asking price.
TheCustomLime wrote: Nowhere. I'm just saying that I like collecting complete squads so that'll skew my perception of the value of the box. Some, or most, may not share my sentiment so the pricing point wont sting as much.
Well, no, $15 for three monopose grunts, new missions and key Command cards.
So, three monopose grunts and packaging ballast?
No, pieces for a GAME.
No matter how you want to look at it, these are made for a game, not made for miniature collectors. You can't divorce the game aspect from them because that is specifically what they're made for.
I've seen one of these in the plastic and it should take a new paint job pretty well. It was for sale, too, and I totally regret not buying it for the ~$30 asking price.
I have 5 of those tucked away, waiting for a Battle of Hoth that may happen one day when I have hobby time again...
Well, no, $15 for three monopose grunts, new missions and key Command cards.
So, three monopose grunts and packaging ballast?
No, pieces for a GAME.
No matter how you want to look at it, these are made for a game, not made for miniature collectors. You can't divorce the game aspect from them because that is specifically what they're made for.
See, your responses indicate you missed the whole point. Let's review:
TheCustomLime wrote: Nowhere. I'm just saying that I like collecting complete squads so that'll skew my perception of the value of the box. Some, or most, may not share my sentiment so the pricing point wont sting as much.
Yeah, I rather suspect that most people will be placing value on them as a supplement for the game that they were made for.
The assumption that most customers interested in 28mm Star Wars figures would also be interested in the FFG boardgame is what I am arguing against. The claim is unbelievable on the face of it--just ask Dreamforge how many of their customers just buy Eisenkern Stormtroopers for the Iron Core system. Ask Dreamforge what would happen if they priced their kits to discourage everyone who didn't play Iron Core from purchasing their kits. The point is that FFG's DSM-IV-worthy pricing is not just leaving wargamers' money on the table, it's leaving the table almost altogether. I have seen dozens, if not hundreds, of gamers mention how much they would love to use this-or-that Star Wars mini for IG, stormtroopers, Inquisition, Dreadball, Deadzone, whatever, if only someone would make them. So, FFG finally made Star wars figures, and then slammed the door on all the potential customers in Tabletop gaming who don't want to play an FFG board game for whatever reason.
You admit that the product looks unappealing to anyone who wants to buy it outside of the narrow demographic of players who want another board game. Why can you not admit that that is potentially a larger group of people than customers looking to pay outrageous prices for an untested, branded board game?
I don't feel FFG has ever gouged me, so I'm more than willing to see how this actually is released and comes out. Games have always been fun and eventful.
BobtheInquisitor wrote: [You admit that the product looks unappealing to anyone who wants to buy it outside of the narrow demographic of players who want another board game. Why can you not admit that that is potentially a larger group of people than customers looking to pay outrageous prices for an untested, branded board game?
What is there to 'admit'?
Sure, there are people who want Star Wars minis for things other than this boardgame. That doesn't change the fact that the price for the expansions here is not just covering the miniatures. If the other things in the box are of no interest to you, that doesn't change the fact that they come with the minis.
Your argument is akin to me complaining about the price of a Ferrari on the basis that I only want the chassis. They should throw in all the other 'useless' stuff for free, right?
Eh, FFG weren't thinking about the miniature collectors or the wargamers when they put this game together, any more than Descent was an attempt to create a line of good plastic fantasy minis for the same groups.
It's not even a missed opportunity because that assumes that FFG would have walked that road 'if only they knew how badly people wanted a 28mm Star Wars wargame.' Of course they know but they don't give a rats ass. Maybe its contractual but more than likely they are sticking to what they are good at, making the most of the license and their in-house expertise with minimal extra cost to get this "safe bet" reskin out. Consider this:
WotC put out over 600 unique sculpts for their Star Wars miniatures line and with the exception of a Clone Wars era CIS droid army and maybe a very samey force of Stromtroopers, you would be hard pressed to get enough of a selection of minis to assemble a well rounded army. Considering how many non-unique sculpts we are seeing in the previews I think it's pretty clear that FFG don't want a piece of that.
Edit: Also let us not forget that there has already been a line of high quality 30mm Star Wars miniatures courtesy of Knight Models. They produced minis during the tail end of WotC's licence (I believe, though there may not have been any overlap) through to mid 2012 when it went to FFG. So they were putting them out for about 2 years in that scale.. yet I don't know a single gamer and Star Wars fan who purchased any of them. Hell, even I didn't buy any and I'm a pretty big fan of all things Star Wars. I - like a lot of people I think - were waiting for a more fully fleshed out range to pick from.
Siygess wrote: Eh, FFG weren't thinking about the miniature collectors or the wargamers when they put this game together, any more than Descent was an attempt to create a line of good plastic fantasy minis for the same groups.
It's not even a missed opportunity because that assumes that FFG would have walked that road 'if only they knew how badly people wanted a 28mm Star Wars wargame.' Of course they know but they don't give a rats ass. Maybe its contractual but more than likely they are sticking to what they are good at, making the most of the license and their in-house expertise with minimal extra cost to get this "safe bet" reskin out. Consider this:
WotC put out over 600 unique sculpts for their Star Wars miniatures line and with the exception of a Clone Wars era CIS droid army and maybe a very samey force of Stromtroopers, you would be hard pressed to get enough of a selection of minis to assemble a well rounded army. Considering how many non-unique sculpts we are seeing in the previews I think it's pretty clear that FFG don't want a piece of that.
You don't think they could have found a way to include more minis with the very expensive rules chits to lower the price per figure? Are rules always that expensive when they are thrown in the box under the models that give the game actual broad appeal? I just don't believe that's the case at all. I feel like FFG is trying to see how much more they can get out of their customers when they have a big name brand. And I do believe GW's rampant pricing extravagances paved the way for this kind of pricing, as well as Battlefront's DUST gouging.
Edit: Also let us not forget that there has already been a line of high quality 30mm Star Wars miniatures courtesy of Knight Models. They produced minis during the tail end of WotC's licence (I believe, though there may not have been any overlap) through to mid 2012 when it went to FFG. So they were putting them out for about 2 years in that scale.. yet I don't know a single gamer and Star Wars fan who purchased any of them. Hell, even I didn't buy any and I'm a pretty big fan of all things Star Wars. I - like a lot of people I think - were waiting for a more fully fleshed out range to pick from.
I didn't buy them because they were too expensive. And who really needs a single master-sculpted storm trooper instead of a corridorful of hastily-thrown-together stormtroopers? Which one is more accurate to the setting?
Given that a lot of people play RPG's with miniatures, and that FFG produce their own Star Wars RPGs, it seems foolish not to offer a "miniature only" line for RPG players.
I think they know that people will buy these to use in their RPG anyway. After you've got a few sets (rebels, Stormtroopers, etc) for the RPG, then people might be tempted to buy IA to use the rest of the rules and chits that these models came with anyway.
Automatically Appended Next Post: And yeah, the Knight models figures were both slightly overscale and very expensive. They were lovely, but way more than I'd be willing to pay. Which is why I also haven't got any of their Batman etc stuff.
The local dollar store has tons of Batman figurines, and they scale well wuth the Star Wars Command minis, which make great True Scale Primarchs for cheap bastards like me.
TheCustomLime wrote: 15 dollars for three monopose grunts? I... wow. That's pretty steep for plastic monopose miniatures.
GW has their monopose plastics at $20-$30. Malifaux monopose get fairly pricey, too. Then again, FFG "miniatures" have always been cheaply done for boardgames and not miniatures games so I cede the point to you.
I doubt FFG Star Wars licence allows them to sell the miniatures stand alone. It almost certainly stipulates that they can only be sold as expansions for the board game.
Seriously after digging about on this one, it looks like it could be a winner.
If I had three gripes.
1. I would probably have preferred the minis were produced in a more brittle plastic to prevent warp (most noticeable on the Wookiee weapon) but then I can also understand the plastic used will likely be more robust for those not so careful when handling, like my 8 year old.
2. It would be nice if the fringe models were in a different colour to the other 2 factions (Imperials seem to be in Grey and Rebels in Brown). I suppose the only problem here would be what colour.
3. It would have been nice to have some of the grunts in different poses and matching cards. Hopefully they will address this in future expansions.
After viewing the reviews below this looks like it could fly off the shelves.
Well, no, $15 for three monopose grunts, new missions and key Command cards.
So, three monopose grunts and packaging ballast?
I had similar 'ballast' concerns with the release of X-wing. £12 for single ship!
Card inserts, dials, tokens, pilot cards and mini upgrade cards, it's stuff you can't play the game without!
X-wing sells out every time!
I'm glad they have the Balast putting mini collectors off!
More people not buying the game just for the minis means more packs available for those of us who actually play the games.
I play the RPG, and will be buying the minis exclusively for that...and then I will likely end up with enough to actually play this game....which will get me hooked and wanting more...Damn you FFG...
I had similar 'ballast' concerns with the release of X-wing. £12 for single ship!
Card inserts, dials, tokens, pilot cards and mini upgrade cards, it's stuff you can't play the game without!
X-wing sells out every time!
I'm glad they have the Balast putting mini collectors off!
More people not buying the game just for the minis means more packs available for those of us who actually play the games.
Panic...
I'm not sure if the stock shortages are because of a small number of collectors and crazy muddy funsters who want to play Star Wars Miniatures: Starship Battles but with even more expensive ships Instead I think we can largely blame FFG's weird stock control and manufacturing rituals whereby they can only make six hundred and sixty six of any one thing regardless of how popular it is and the order can only be placed on a full moon. But I suppose.. as long as it keeps the company in the black so they can keep churning out new stuff and they do at least remember to do a reprint of the OOS X-Wing stuff at least once a year, it is only super inconvenient.
As for the ballast.. or more specifically, BobtheInquisitor's comments regarding ballast, I'm not sure that you can call it expensive, or equate it's presence to 'costing you a mini from the box'. Most of what FFG puts out there is printed - be it books, boxes, cards, maps or counters. They have been doing it long enough to get pretty good at it and they are smart enough to get their moneys worth out of each piece of art by using it about a bazillion times but cropped in different ways. Even if they were going to a different printer for each new print run and getting unfavorable rates, the cost of the box + ballast is still going to be negligible. Hell, throw in three monopose plastic models and the total production costs are still probably no more than $7 per box. So of course they could sell it without the cards, and they could put in 5 minis instead of 3, and they already are charging exactly the same price for a box with only two miniatures in because those miniatures are more powerful or more desirable. But this simply isn't FFGs modus operandi.
Now I do agree that we can blame GW for this.
Probably.
I reckon it started with Warhammer Quest*.. where we basically showed them that we would be prepared to pay a lot more for a single figure; not because it came with extra ballast or because it was larger / more detailed than other fantasy character models available from GW at the time.. but because you only needed that one figure. It set a precedent that it is okay for a game to charge you more if you don't need as many components as another game and we see it in Infinity, Malifaux etc.. and also FFG's Descent. So while I agree that it sucks, I think you have to compare the value against something in the same category and Descent is the best model for comparison here. A Lieutenant pack with a single plastic 28mm miniature plus ballast is ~£8. A Lieutenant pack with a single large miniature is ~£13. The pre-order prices put the ally packs in the region of ~£13 as well, with a pack of three guys (arguably better value, content wise, than the single character packs at the same price) so there isn't even much of a "Because, Star Wars" markup. So is this a price that people are going to be prepared to pay in order to pay this game? I'd say yes. Is this a good price to pay to use the minis for something else? Of course not.
* Necromunda might have been a better example but IIRC, there wasn't much of a price difference between a 10-man gang in metal and 10-man imperial guard squad.
Just as a heads up, Miniatures Market have two of the Armored Cartographer Map Packs in their Black Friday sale for the bargain price of $8 (each map in the pack is double sided) and they are going to be ideal for the skirmish part of the game, especially the Capital City pack which is going to be huuuge!
I reckon it started with Warhammer Quest*.. where we basically showed them that we would be prepared to pay a lot more for a single figure; not because it came with extra ballast or because it was larger / more detailed than other fantasy character models available from GW at the time.. but because you only needed that one figure.
Playing Devil's Advocate, they need to charge somewhat more for something they can only sell once to a customer, vs something that they can sell multiple times, because the sculpt and mold need to be recouped. There's also the opportunity cost of instead putting the resources into desigining/sculpting/manufacturing, etc the character vs putting that same effort into something which will get more sales.
To me, these prices seem reasonable for something with an expensive license. You can still pick up army builder type Star Wars minis on ebay for 2-3 bucks each if you want a lower cost alternative.
From what I can tell, GamesLore in the UK briefly had stock, and BoardGameExtras (they have the best prices on the add-ons as far as I can tell) are still expecting to have some copies before Christmas.. but yeah it seems that only a small number of boxes have reached the UK in the December shipment. I wonder if the above companies go through a different distributor to Wayland, Firestorm etc who are not expecting copies until early next year.
JHall wrote: Has anyone ordered those Battle Mats from Miniature Market? I am curious as to what the quality is like in person. Also do they come rolled or folded?
If their previous products are anything to go by, they will be folded, although I won't be able to say for sure until mine arrive! The paper quality is good - slightly glossy, and more durable than the mats WotC put out for the Star Wars Saga RPG and their miniatures game.. but really want people are going to be most interested in is the quality of the art. I'll upload a picture of the stuff I already have but obviously I can't physically put it alongside the tiles from Imperial Assault yet
14 units in stock, eh? I expect that to disappear fast! I knew I should have pre-ordered it from Wayland when it was first announced at the reduced rate. Doh!
JHall wrote: Has anyone ordered those Battle Mats from Miniature Market? I am curious as to what the quality is like in person. Also do they come rolled or folded?
Okay, here are some quick pictures I took - I couldn't lay them flat (really need some time to clean my desk) but the pictures should give you an idea of what the existing maps are like:
Sort of. Take a look at the first post here on BGG for a comparison with the WotC SWM line. Overall, they are about the same height, but the FFG ones are less.. spindly.
Edit: Compare the stormtrooper on the BGG page with the stormtroopers here (middle) and here.
FYI, converted Infinity models look great alongside WotC and - it seems - FFG Star Wars miniatures. Perfect if you are looking for some new hero models
2nd Edit: The Star Wars Miniatures Clone Wars Map Packs used to be super cheap on fleabay. You used to be able to pick them up for about £2 each. Now I think retailers who held on to them may find they are in demand again. This is the best deal I can find on them at the moment.
As far as I'm aware, those maps were designed by a man named Christopher West. I've got a whole stack of his maps, from fantasy to SW to generic Sci-Fil. Even the map set he recently Kickstarter'd. They're excellent designs.
With Adventurers Atlas, Armoured Cartographer (and JediCartographer / ArmouredGear before that) I always get confused about who made what, and if the WotC maps were made internally, or by Christopher West while he worked there, or if he was always freelancing and was simply comissioned by WotC to make maps for them, and if he was behind any or all of the above map-making teams.
..but all that really matters is that they are out there, they are great, and they are super convenient for DMs who have to travel to their games, or IA players who want to be able to store their skirmish maps in the game box
My local comic\games store had a demo of this on yesterday. I played the first scenario through 3 times. It's a bit tricky getting the hang of all the different symbols on the dice at first but once you're used to it the game flows very smoothly.
They had only pressed out the ones for the first scenario, though I did get a look in the box and there where loads of tiles included. The quality was excellent, nice thick card.
yeah,
I got mine yesterday.
I can say there is a lot of stuff in there.
- For the benefit of those already subscribed to this thread a quick copy paste from my unboxing thread -
+++
I quickly read the rules and It looks like an amazing game.
You can play it as an adventure, playing through the campaign book missions.
Or as a Skirmish board/wargame, picking out 40pt of troops & upgrades/abilities to fight with.
First off photos of the minis.
Pretty much fantastic 'board game' minis - I think these would look great painted... not sure that I'll bother.
My AT-ST chin gun doesn't fit in it's slot... going to have to remove some flash.
You get 6 rebel Heros
These come with large Hero character sheets with extra abilities for campaign play.
and a regular skirmish card which offers a cut down version of the Hero, for skirmish play.
You get a huge amount of double sided Floor pieces to set up missions and skirmish maps.
4 booklets...
300+Cards
170+ tokens - Including hero stand in tokens...
11 Dice
Wait what was that?..Stand in Hero tokens??
This is my complaint with the game and where the milks starts to turn sour...
Darth, Luke, Han, Chewie, royal guard champion, ig88, General weise, rebel troopers , rebel saboteurs.
These characters feature heavily in the campaign missions making up more than half the content. Normally being the focus of the mission.
You can also use these guys in the Skirmish game.
Who wants to play missions with half the characters represented by 3D minis and the most important ones represented by 2D card chits?
To make things worse for skirmish play the rebels have no stock troops... Just the 7 heroes to pick from.
Surely these 9 minis should have been included !??
Luckily to explain this, FFG give you a promotional leaflet.
Spoiler:
You can buy the second half of the core games minis separately! you know... to get the full experience.
Which kinda brings us to my second gripe...
Im confused about the Luke and Darth card token since every core set comes with the Darth and Luke expansion packs... It's confusing.
FFG wrote:In addition to the massive amount of missions and figures included in the Imperial Assault Core Set, the Luke Skywalker Ally Pack and the Darth Vader Villain Pack are included in the Core Set as an added bonus
On the back of the box it says you get two expansion packs included... And shows you the retail packaging.
But inside they disappointingly come in a baggie.
But to be fair I don't even understand why they bothered putting these in a separate baggie... you need these minis to play the core game properly unless you want Darth represented by a cardboard chit!
I honestly don't see these as a bonus!
If it's to show what expansion packs add to the game.
It's not a lot, 1 minis to replace your mission goal card chits and 10 various game upgrade cards?
Spoiler:
Basically this is stuff that should be in the box!
When I think expansion packs I would think something like Boba fett...
Stuff that's not required to play the core missions.
Stuff that will add to Skirmish play.
So in round up It's a great box.. I feel like I'm going to get a lot of use from this game.
But it feels like they held back on core stuff to sell to you as 'expansions'.
While I understand the gripe, I imagine that certain parts of the game have been left out of the box to assure it can fall within a certain price point.
yeah,
I would agree except that they didn't need to put IG-88, Royal guard champion, Han or Chewie in the core missions at all.
And they could still be released as expansion packs, with extra missions, upgrades etc...
A little break down of chit useage...
Mission 4 - uses Rebel Troopers chits
Mission 5 - uses Han solo chit
Mission 7 - uses Chewbacca chit
Mission 8 - uses Rebel Saboteurs chits
Mission 14 - uses Rebel Troopers chits and Royal Guard Champion chit
Mission 16 - uses IG-88 chit
Mission17 - uses General Weise Chit
Mission 20 - uses Han Solo chit and IG-88 chit
Mission 22 - uses royal guard champion chit
Mission 23 - uses General Weise Chit
Mission 25 - uses General Weise Chit
FF is not first or last games company to only put half the figs in the starter box set
GW did it over multiple editions of 40K & warhammer
all the core troops was in the game but the card board cutout of the dreadnought or wyvern included so you could get them as an add on for your collection.
I hate the idea of cut-content becoming DLC, and I also don't fancy having any more big boxed games taking up room in my place.
At the same time, dem tiles yo! And the miniatures (that will expand as releases come out) can pull double duty with the Star Wars RPG, and that's an attractive proposition. And yeah, dem tiles.
If there are 40 missions in the basic game, it's not entirely unreasonable to my way of thinking that you have to buy extra models to play all of the missions. The price of the basic boxed set would need to be much higher if it included all of the figures.
That said, it kinda "feels" more like a game for boardgamers than a wargame. Not that it wouldn't be fun anyway.
If I had been FFG I would have put more models in the box, had them painted by a Chinese company, made it more expensive, and sold it off the top of the hype surrounding the new film.
Kilkrazy wrote: If there are 40 missions in the basic game, it's not entirely unreasonable to my way of thinking that you have to buy extra models to play all of the missions. The price of the basic boxed set would need to be much higher if it included all of the figures.
That said, it kinda "feels" more like a game for boardgamers than a wargame. Not that it wouldn't be fun anyway...
I should point out again that the game looks amazing.
The skirmish game mode makes it almost a wargame lite!
The issue with the missing rebels, and any others you buy in the future, is that they can called in on any campaign mission as an ally.
The empire as a threat meter that as it increases can be used to brings in reinforcements.
The Rebel Player during mission set up can elect to bring 1 ally.
The ally is taken during the mission by paying it's skirmish cost on the empires threat meter. (giving the empire player more resources)
So the Rebel Troopers chits can be taken as an ally by advancing the empires threat meter 6 points and the Rebel Saboteurs chits for 5 threat meter points.
The Han chit costs 12 threat meter points and the mighty Chewie 15!
So basically the 7 Rebel chits/figures can be a part of every mission!
They can all also be used in skirmish play meaning that the rebel force could mostly consist of chits...
This isn't what I signed up for I wanted a miniatures game!
Kilkrazy wrote: If there are 40 missions in the basic game, it's not entirely unreasonable to my way of thinking that you have to buy extra models to play all of the missions. The price of the basic boxed set would need to be much higher if it included all of the figures.
That said, it kinda "feels" more like a game for boardgamers than a wargame. Not that it wouldn't be fun anyway...
I should point out again that the game looks amazing.
The skirmish game mode makes it almost a wargame lite!
The issue with the missing rebels, and any others you buy in the future, is that they can called in on any campaign mission as an ally.
The empire as a threat meter that as it increases can be used to brings in reinforcements.
Star Wars is a damn expensive license, so yeah, they designed it to make you want to buy some expansions. We were going to pay for those figures one way or the other, either in a huge $200 basic game, or a $100 game + expansions. They chose the lower price point to reach a wider audience, as not everyone has $200 to throw down on a board game in one go. Some customers are kids/parents on a budget, and a huge entry price drives them off.
They left out some of the cool guys because they actually want to sell expansions.They know Han will sell, so he got left out and replaced with the female smuggler. Because they need to sell more than just the core game. Much of the complaints seem to be that you cant get all the movie mains in the box and have the expansions just be crap no one cares about like Weequay skiff guard #4 (OK, I'd buy him, but still). They're a business, and don't want a "one and done" purchase on a line like this.
At least they gave you the pogs so you can play the game, even if it leaves you wanting more. Also, if they gave you the rules for Han etc you could always just grab a mini off ebay for a few bucks. However the single figure expansions really dont seem a bad deal for $10 (or less online) since you get the figure, stat cards and new missions.
It is strange that Luke/Darth are just in a baggie. It seems likely they were originally going to be separate (hence the retail mock ups for the packaging), then they decided the main box better have SOME big names in it, so scrapped the individual packaging on those two planned expansions and threw them in the box.
Kilkrazy wrote: If there are 40 missions in the basic game, it's not entirely unreasonable to my way of thinking that you have to buy extra models to play all of the missions. The price of the basic boxed set would need to be much higher if it included all of the figures.
That said, it kinda "feels" more like a game for boardgamers than a wargame. Not that it wouldn't be fun anyway...
I should point out again that the game looks amazing.
The skirmish game mode makes it almost a wargame lite!
The issue with the missing rebels, and any others you buy in the future, is that they can called in on any campaign mission as an ally.
The empire as a threat meter that as it increases can be used to brings in reinforcements.
The Rebel Player during mission set up can elect to bring 1 ally.
The ally is taken during the mission by paying it's skirmish cost on the empires threat meter. (giving the empire player more resources)
So the Rebel Troopers chits can be taken as an ally by advancing the empires threat meter 6 points and the Rebel Saboteurs chits for 5 threat meter points.
The Han chit costs 12 threat meter points and the mighty Chewie 15!
So basically the 7 Rebel chits/figures can be a part of every mission!
They can all also be used in skirmish play meaning that the rebel force could mostly consist of chits...
This isn't what I signed up for I wanted a miniatures game!
Panic...
Yeah. The thing about Star Wars is that you need the "official" figures to make the game. Once you have good figures, you could use any SF rules ranging from Laserburn to 7TV, with appropriate selective adaptation, to run a game.
The FFG rules sound pretty good in themselves, though.
They left out some of the cool guys because they actually want to sell expansions.They know Han will sell, so he got left out and replaced with the female smuggler. Because they need to sell more than just the core game. Much of the complaints seem to be that you cant get all the movie mains in the box and have the expansions just be crap no one cares about like Weequay skiff guard #4 (OK, I'd buy him, but still). They're a business, and don't want a "one and done" purchase on a line like this.
At least they gave you the pogs so you can play the game, even if it leaves you wanting more. Also, if they gave you the rules for Han etc you could always just grab a mini off ebay for a few bucks. However the single figure expansions really dont seem a bad deal for $10 (or less online) since you get the figure, stat cards and new missions.
The issue with that approach is the sales they may well lose because the full game is not included in the box. While it may seem better to sell expansions on top of the main game, that means nothing if they aren't getting people into the game in he first place.
Personally, I think I'm definitely out on this one now, despite my initial enthusiasm. At first, I figured the price, while high, was fair for something I could buy, paint up, and have a complete game with, and unlike X-wing and Armada, I actually figured there was enough value in this box to get me to drop cash on it. But now, no way, as it's basically incomplete, and once you factor in higher cost of the expansion sets over here for some reason and how many I'd need to get the full game, it's tipped to the other side of that value scale, so I won't touch it.
On a side note, I do think FFG would make a killing if they released the minis on their own at a reasonable price and without the stuff that would be superfluous to anyone not using ygheir rules. If they matched Mantic or even GW prices per mini I'd buy dozens for RPGs and DZ/Infinity mods, but as it stands, they won't be seeing a penny from me.
The wait for decent, affordable Star Wars minis in 28mm goes on...
Yes it does, but then I do think that's what this release was ever going to be.
It's a board game. I'll get it, enjoy painting up some storm-troopers, hopefully the board-game itself will be half decent - I suppose a lot comes down to what kind of product you were expecting from this!
I think its a bit disingenuous to call the game incomplete. You can play it right out of the box. It doesn't have all the premium bonus items, like a Han Solo figure you need for TWO missions out of 25+. Lots of games with marginal use items do that. They put the main components in a premium material/make minis fr them, and the one off escort guy in one random mission you have a token or a cardboard standup or something like that for.
As it stands, $10 is within reason for a plastic solo figure with stat cards and scenarios. You mentioned GW and Mantic - GW charges $15 for a single guy, and its rules are just terrible. Mantic's single Deadzone figures are $8 or so (without having to pay for an expensive license) so IMO comparable. FFG just didn't get the license just to do cheap RPG only figures - and might not actually be able to depending on how licensing breaks down. There are tons of old WOTC figures on ebay for $1-3 however.
I'm not sure why expansions are basically more than double price in the UK. Not sure how much miniature market or warstore or discount games charges to ship there, but it might be worth checking out for those interested, as the savings are significant. Were I paying the equivalent of $16 per figure rather than $7, I'd balk too.
Around 30mm, with slightly more heroic proportions than Infinity. Not GW heroic, but the hands and guns are noticeably bigger when compared with the WotC minis. But they will look fine mixed in with your other 28-30mm minis.
With regards to the price of the add-ons, BoardGameExtras in the UK have the best price (that I've found). It's still more than most people would want to pay after shelling out ~£70 on the base set, I think, but hey.. savings are savings.
Bossk_Hogg wrote: I think its a bit disingenuous to call the game incomplete. You can play it right out of the box. It doesn't have all the premium bonus items, like a Han Solo figure you need for TWO missions out of 25+. Lots of games with marginal use items do that. They put the main components in a premium material/make minis fr them, and the one off escort guy in one random mission you have a token or a cardboard standup or something like that for.
Fair enough. I suppose coming at it as a Wargamer here colours my perspective a little, as I don't see cardboard as comparable to a mini, but I imagine to the target audience of boardgames it's not as much of an issue. The other thing I was hoping was that the product would a 'fire and forget' purchase where I could get a whole game in one box and be done with it, essentially having a complete game I can box up and take to clubs/friend's places ect.
So it's not that it's a bad product per se, it's just not what I'm looking for.
As it stands, $10 is within reason for a plastic solo figure with stat cards and scenarios. You mentioned GW and Mantic - GW charges $15 for a single guy, and its rules are just terrible. Mantic's single Deadzone figures are $8 or so (without having to pay for an expensive license) so IMO comparable. FFG just didn't get the license just to do cheap RPG only figures - and might not actually be able to depending on how licensing breaks down. There are tons of old WOTC figures on ebay for $1-3 however.
I'm not sure why expansions are basically more than double price in the UK. Not sure how much miniature market or warstore or discount games charges to ship there, but it might be worth checking out for those interested, as the savings are significant. Were I paying the equivalent of $16 per figure rather than $7, I'd balk too.
$10 before discount would be fine, and I'd be tempted, it's just that here in the UK, we end up paying nearly double that (same with X-wing from what I've seen as well) for no reason I can see. The link above puts them at £7.50 for expansion sets which isn't too bad, though.
But what I meant was that I'd like to be able to buy whole squads of Stormtroopers for the price of a box of SM, at which point I could accept paying a premium for heroes ect. Again, it's not that the prices or product are bad, just that I was hoping for something a little different. As I said, I was more hoping for minis I could use with other games, but you're right that this isn't what FFG have the licence for, so it's not a reflection on or the game that I'm no longer interested.
First: A SW-license is not as expensive as many think, it is even one of the cheaper ones. Lucas always went the route of many lower-price licenses instead of one hyper-priced license and was financially right.
Second:
As someone how has played and demoed the game a lot since October I do know quite well what is inside the box:
> It is not incomplete, all you need to play the missions is in the box. Some in the form of chits, but it is still there. And there is a lot of it in the box. And the box is really heavy, cause it comes with a lot of cards, minis, etc. Any more stuff and it would have needed to be resized, which would have made it more expensive.
> Every expansion comes with quite some extra stuff and I can´t see how that could have been included within the box without upping the price notably.
> There are no rules missing, all possible situations are explained in detail and even a glossary book is included. The TT-rules are on the compact side, but the game in its basic form offers so much content, that I understand quite well why they decided to extend them in later expansions.
Now to every single of you who calls the game incomplete: You get a lot for your money and there are quite a lot of boardgames out there that offer you less for your money in comparison. And the same goes for the expansions, they come with a lot of stuff. And in the end FFG needs to earn some money and the game is a good deal, so don´t expect them to sell that stuff as a loss-leader as GW does with its starter.
@chin-gun
Use a hair-dryer and heat it up a little bit and it will slot in easily.
@Dice
They are actually easier to read than the Descent-dice and symbols are quite easy to read for gamers already familiar with the RPG.
@X-wing
It really sells out fast. The production gets ramped up with every run, but demand is that high... Imagine a big sea-conatiner full of blisters being sold empty within 4 hours and you get the demand...
Keep the questions comin, I will answer them as soon as possible.
In comparison to Descent:
I think it is the better Descent. The long-range-fight is more important and the game plays like a lot of small TTs.
Both sides have to do a good job to win. If you let the Wookie always tank without calling him back to heal you will surely lose and if you send your Stormtroopers out one by one they too will loose.
Is this game worth getting? does the game flow nicely or is their a lot of upkeep and token counting through the game?
And a question out of curiosity, for the skirmish game why didn't they include a rectangular map for skirmish play like with star wars minis?
I'm guessing there is no chance of getting a Darth Maul in the near or distant future? when FFG first released X-wing they mentioned something about not having the rights to produce material from the prequels (no Naboo fighter)
Since when were they "premium bonus items"? Who made that distinction/classification?
Its like griping that Betrayal at the House on the Hill gives you a miniature for the character you use in every single scenario, but only a cardboard cat chit you use in one. Or Arkham Horror's pre-painted miniatures vs. the tokens that come in the box. Cthulhu wars has cardboard gate tokens in the main box, but you can buy gate miniatures if you want. Han Solo isnt the main hero character you play.
Piston Honda wrote: Is this game worth getting? does the game flow nicely or is their a lot of upkeep and token counting through the game?
And a question out of curiosity, for the skirmish game why didn't they include a rectangular map for skirmish play like with star wars minis?
I'm guessing there is no chance of getting a Darth Maul in the near or distant future? when FFG first released X-wing they mentioned something about not having the rights to produce material from the prequels (no Naboo fighter)
Interesting. That last point is consistent with the content they have put out so far (e.g. no prequel content in the RPG or the Star Wars LCG either, to my knowledge) but if it is true, it would also be a real shame.
Bossk_Hogg wrote: ...Han Solo isn't the main hero character you play.
But you can take Han, the troopers or any of the characters in every mission if you want to.
By paying their threat cost, giving the imperial player more resources it balances the mission out.
So yeah important characters are missing.
And while you can play the skirmish game with rebel trooper chits, who wants to?
Automatically Appended Next Post: Oh, and can someone in the know post a list of the expansions you'd need to play the box missions with all the required minis?
Automatically Appended Next Post: Oh, and can someone in the know post a list of the expansions you'd need to play the box missions with all the required minis?
If you are going to substitute all of the counters you'd need in a full campaign for their model equivalents, you would need to buy all of the available add-ons.. General Weiss, the Saboteuers, Royal Guard Champion, IG88, Han, Chewie and the Rebel Troopers (and that's assuming you only want to have three allied Troopers show up to help you - I haven't read the rules yet, so I don't know if you could have six and thus would need two Rebel Trooper packs etc). So you are looking at £60+
lots of price increases on Imerial Assault are being reported (eg coolstuff inc and meeple mart)
The most consistent report is that Hasbro has the exclusive licence for star wars board games and have successfully challenged FFGs description of this as a 'miniatures game' (when it clearly is a board game), and thus are now having to pay unexpected extra royalties to Hasbro
(I've also seen reports that it could be down to FFG now being unable to distribute this directly but that seems less believable)
so bottom line is this is probably going to be more expensive in the future (about 10% or so based on the price rises), so factor that into whether you want to start playing
and if you do want to snap up the early store stock before price rises hit
I'm sure the FFG stuff is higher quality, but maybe someone is looking for filler troops or bigger TT battles. My kids have a ton of those and the toys aren't terrible, and they're really cheap in price.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Oh, and can someone in the know post a list of the expansions you'd need to play the box missions with all the required minis?
If you are going to substitute all of the counters you'd need in a full campaign for their model equivalents, you would need to buy all of the available add-ons.. General Weiss, the Saboteuers, Royal Guard Champion, IG88, Han, Chewie and the Rebel Troopers (and that's assuming you only want to have three allied Troopers show up to help you - I haven't read the rules yet, so I don't know if you could have six and thus would need two Rebel Trooper packs etc). So you are looking at £60+
Damn. If it was just a couple of boosters I could almost have stomached it, but now I'm back to passing in it.
I'm sure the FFG stuff is higher quality, but maybe someone is looking for filler troops or bigger TT battles. My kids have a ton of those and the toys aren't terrible, and they're really cheap in price.
Just tossing around ideas here.
You know, I've been looking for those in local toyshops for ages but haven't seen them, which is a shame as I'd like a few just to paint and display. They'd be bigger that the IA minis by quite a bit, but on their own they look alright.
FFG has all the rights for SW, so no problem there, it just depends on which part they are focussing and there is a lot of stuff. IA is focused on Ep. 4-6 right now.
The game is worth getting. The game is quite streamlined and micro-management is not your main-job when playing the game.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Hasbro can´t ask for extra royalties since Dinsey owns the rights and the contract with Disney includes miniature games and board games. Also contracts can only be changed when they run out, which is not the case right now.
I doubt the source for this info ever saw the contract even from a distance.
Regarding price increases: Everything produced in China will get more expensive faster than in the past.
you could be right, I've certainly no actual evidence (and none of the retailers have leaked the email they got yet)
but something has caused FFG to suddenly and unexpectedly raise their prices so something is going on
(and I don't believe its is a straight cash grab just because they game has proved popular, I don't believe FFG would do that, so something has caused them a significant cost increase which they are passing on)
I'm sure the FFG stuff is higher quality, but maybe someone is looking for filler troops or bigger TT battles. My kids have a ton of those and the toys aren't terrible, and they're really cheap in price.
Just tossing around ideas here.
You know, I've been looking for those in local toyshops for ages but haven't seen them, which is a shame as I'd like a few just to paint and display. They'd be bigger that the IA minis by quite a bit, but on their own they look alright.
lots of price increases on Imerial Assault are being reported (eg coolstuff inc and meeple mart)
The most consistent report is that Hasbro has the exclusive licence for star wars board games and have successfully challenged FFGs description of this as a 'miniatures game' (when it clearly is a board game), and thus are now having to pay unexpected extra royalties to Hasbro
(I've also seen reports that it could be down to FFG now being unable to distribute this directly but that seems less believable)
so bottom line is this is probably going to be more expensive in the future (about 10% or so based on the price rises), so factor that into whether you want to start playing
and if you do want to snap up the early store stock before price rises hit
Edit: Sources FFG forum/beast of war/BGG
If this is true, someone needs to get pimp slapped.
Piston Honda wrote: Is this game worth getting? does the game flow nicely or is their a lot of upkeep and token counting through the game?
And a question out of curiosity, for the skirmish game why didn't they include a rectangular map for skirmish play like with star wars minis?
I'm guessing there is no chance of getting a Darth Maul in the near or distant future? when FFG first released X-wing they mentioned something about not having the rights to produce material from the prequels (no Naboo fighter)
Interesting. That last point is consistent with the content they have put out so far (e.g. no prequel content in the RPG or the Star Wars LCG either, to my knowledge) but if it is true, it would also be a real shame.
I couldn't get exact details out of the guy (he works for FFG) but it sounded one of 2 possible situations
A.) FFG has to pay separate royalties for Ep. I, II, III material.
B.) FFG could NOT get permission to make materical from Ep. I, II, and III.
If it is B that just sucks as I love Darth Maul and the Naboo fighter looks like a Italian sports car... in spppppaaaaace!
If A is true I can see them wanting to avoid that, at least for the time being as IV, V and VI are far more popular and loved by fans and has the more iconic ships and would wait till other options are exhausted.
Around 30mm, with slightly more heroic proportions than Infinity. Not GW heroic, but the hands and guns are noticeably bigger when compared with the WotC minis. But they will look fine mixed in with your other 28-30mm minis.
With regards to the price of the add-ons, BoardGameExtras in the UK have the best price (that I've found). It's still more than most people would want to pay after shelling out ~£70 on the base set, I think, but hey.. savings are savings.
Weeeeeell maybe, maybe not. My 40K sentinel barely comes up to the top of the AT-ST's legs. So it's a good 40% taller and the cockpit is considerably more bulky than that of the sentinel. You could argue that it's probably a true scale sentinel
Paradigm wrote: Fair enough. I suppose coming at it as a Wargamer here colours my perspective a little, as I don't see cardboard as comparable to a mini,
A *miniatures* wargamer might have those concerns.
An old grognard like myself doesn't see what all the fuss is about. After all, I grew up pushing small cardboard counters around a hex map. I'm not averse to doing it again. For something like this, I'd prefer to have the figures. But having them sold separately is not a deal breaker.
For UK people;
I just found that it's on sale at amazon uk for £58, when the rrp is £80, and best discount I've seen elsewhere was down to about £70.
Plus there's an Xmas promotion where if you spend over £40 at Amazon and pay with MasterCard you get another fiver off. Plus it was a prime seller so got free postage as well.
So basically I just got a 80 quid box for 53 delivered! Bargain!
tyrannosaurus wrote: Amazon is showing £66.57 for me, the £58 one is charging over £5 for delivery :(
It's gone up since this morning, probably to due to getting more views thanks to this thread. Amazon are tricky like that; you put something in you baseket, come back an hour later and it'll have gone up.
Some of the discounts I'm seeing are bringing this game back into affordability. The Weiss Walker looks like the best deal going on. How come there are no Stormtrooper expansion packs?
BobtheInquisitor wrote: Some of the discounts I'm seeing are bringing this game back into affordability. The Weiss Walker looks like the best deal going on. How come there are no Stormtrooper expansion packs?
Likely because they'd sell infinitely faster than all of the other expansions...and they figure people will buy multiple core boxes to get their Storm Trooper fix. We'll likely see one eventually, but It won't ever be in stock because of those collectors that MUST have legions of storm troopers.
The expansions announced so far cover the characters/troopers that appear in the scenarios in the core set but aren’t included in miniature form. There’s no scenario that requires more than 3 groups of Stormtroopers so at the moment there no need for Stormtrooper expansion. The core set gives you all you need to play all the scenarios.
I suppose this may change in the future if FFG plan of releasing more big-box expansions similar to the ones for Descent.
It's back to £60 (a seller but posted from Amazon) with free postage on Amazon.co.uk and once they sell out it will go up to £60.49 from Amazon directly.
Was uncertain about grabbing it but at that price along with some half price gift vouchers I picked up yesterday (bespokeoffers.co.uk have been offering £10 vouchers for £5 on and off over the last couple of days) making it effectively £30 I couldn't resist.
I was nearly tempted by this in my local shop this morning, even after every downside I've been reading about it.
What put me off though, was there wasn't a listed price (though I could have asked), and the box itself didn't have a precise list of minis there. Just '34' miniatures (Plus, I guess, Luke and Vader? Or do they count in the 34?)
I received my copy yesterday. Game tiles, tokens, cards, and rules are all top notch. The miniatures are a bit of a let down, to be honest.
I know this isn't only a miniatures game, but the figures are still disappointing(with a few exceptions). The proportions on the figures are the worst part. Head and hand sizes all over the map, and body sizes off to the point that "people are different sizes" just doesn't cover it for me. The Imperial Officer looks like a pre-teen/young teenager playing dress up compared to all of the other figures, and is the worst in the bunch. A couple of the player figures suffer from this as well, but to a lesser degree.
The notable exceptions to my disappointment are the AT-ST, the Soldier player, the Wookie player, the Trandoshan figures, Luke Skywalker and Dart Vader. The Probe Droids are pretty decent, but one of mine broke off of the base and I think they are under scaled as well.
Feels like a case of "Almost". Had they taken a bit more care with the figures, it would have been perfect, in my opinion.
Gameplay impressions when I get time to play it, which won't be soon unfortunately.
Please calculate the number of minis included in the game and all the additional material and then please explain to me how they could have included better minis. It is a board-game and for a board game the minis are above board-game standard.
And the box is that big so you can pack all the stuff without having to disassamble.
Taarnak, can I ask if you are comparing these to wargaming/display miniatures, or those of other board games?
Obviously it's no good if these compare poorly to say the miniatures found in Descent, but if they don't come up to scratch compared to Infinity or something then that is a different matter entirely!
Duncan_Idaho wrote: Please calculate the number of minis included in the game and all the additional material and then please explain to me how they could have included better minis. It is a board-game and for a board game the minis are above board-game standard.
And the box is that big so you can pack all the stuff without having to disassamble.
Space Hulk vs. Imperial Assault.
Space Hulk has more miniatures, no dublicate sculpts, better material (hard plastic), as well as more tiles in the box. It was also cheaper RRP, even after the re-release price hike, which was widely critizised on dakka for being unnecessary and a "rip-off".
If GW is expensive for what you get, FFG is obscene.
Pretty sure no one called space hulk a ripoff. It's an amazing deal compared to pretty much any other board game out there considering the quality of the miniatures.
SH would be way more expensive if released as a stand-alone game. Since its main goal ist to draw people into 40K calculation is completly different. SH has btw way less material in the box if you go through all the cards.
Tilewise they have approx the same number of tiles, but most SH-tiles are corridors and IA-tiles are way more varied (different prints on the back still not considered).
Duncan_Idaho wrote: SH would be way more expensive if released as a stand-alone game. Since its main goal ist to draw people into 40K calculation is completly different. SH has btw way less material in the box if you go through all the cards.
Tilewise they have approx the same number of tiles, but most SH-tiles are corridors and IA-tiles are way more varied (different prints on the back still not considered).
Also SH is the 4th iteration of the game.
Well, the cards are nothing but unnessecary bloat that add zero value.
If GW would start to print little cards like FFG does, you'd have 10 cards for 10 termies, each with an equipment card for each powerfist and each stormbolter, etc. ..
Just because FFG's games require you to have 3 identical copies of the rules for equipment piece x, if you want to use it 3 times, whereas GW is ok with people equipping even a huge 40Kapoc army with, say, powerswords, even if you only own the rules for it once, rather than a card for every single powersword you bring, doesnt mean there is any added value to the respectives games.
FFG's "cards policy" is just money extortion for no game-related purpose.
Also, Imperial Assault is also the 4th iteration of Descent and Space Hulk doesnt serve the purpose of Dark Vengeance or other starters. You really believe it is a loss-leader?
Dude if you dont like FFG than skip their games.
In you dont like GW dont buy their stuff either.
I just played 3 games of imperial assault and it was great fun. Each game was decided in the very last second and the forces lvld out greatly between imps and rebels.
I just cannot understand all this bitching about the game. Is it cheap ... No ... Is it really good ... Yes imo it is. So I pay the price and am happy with the buy.
And the FFG a card policy is great imo. There are lots of people who like to play a game now and than and don't want to memorize books upon books of rules before the play. Would I need it, no but I do not only game with tabletop gamers and FFG produces games for every taste.
Clearly you have no idea what you are talking about.
Well, the cards are nothing but unnessecary bloat that add zero value.
If GW would start to print little cards like FFG does, you'd have 10 cards for 10 termies, each with an equipment card for each powerfist and each stormbolter, etc. ..
Equipment and character development are quite at the core of a dungeon crawler and add really a lot to the game. They allow me to customize my character way beyond the starting options. Inquisitor 40K comes closest with regard to a dungeon crawler and also needed quite some extra material, though most of it was in book-form. Each Rebell character has a different card and cards for Imperials are either for single characters or groups. Cards also differentiate between standard an experienced opponents. Claiming they add zero value is
Just because FFG's games require you to have 3 identical copies of the rules for equipment piece x, if you want to use it 3 times, whereas GW is ok with people equipping even a huge 40Kapoc army with, say, powerswords, even if you only own the rules for it once, rather than a card for every single powersword you bring, doesnt mean there is any added value to the respectives games.
FFG's "cards policy" is just money extortion for no game-related purpose.
Yeah, sure! You really never had a look at the cards, cause the items with multiple cards need them to be multiple cause they are attached to the characters owning them. A Stormtrooper has his weapons on his card, you only need to hand out weapon cards to single-characters and mainly to the Rebells.
Also, Imperial Assault is also the 4th iteration of Descent and Space Hulk doesnt serve the purpose of Dark Vengeance or other starters. You really believe it is a loss-leader?
Nope, though it shares some elements with Descent a lot of brains and changes went into IA. SH mainly changed the minis, the rules stayed more or less the same. And calculations for games that are intended to in the end draw people into playing 40K are quite different from a game that is intended to stand alone. Without 40K as support the minis for SH would have been way more expensive.
Pacific wrote: Taarnak, can I ask if you are comparing these to wargaming/display miniatures, or those of other board games?
Obviously it's no good if these compare poorly to say the miniatures found in Descent, but if they don't come up to scratch compared to Infinity or something then that is a different matter entirely!
I was mostly comparing them to each other. Proportion issues are in the original sculpts and have very little to nothing to do with them being board game figures.
If I was to compare them to another board game, it would be Zombicide, which has better sculpts and casts than Imperial Assault. It is arguably an higher quality product made by a less experienced manufacturer.
If FFG had taken a bit more care with the miniatures in the sculpting stage, the product would have been stellar. As it is, it's "only" really good. Lol.
Lorien wrote: Dude if you dont like FFG than skip their games.
In you dont like GW dont buy their stuff either.
I just played 3 games of imperial assault and it was great fun. Each game was decided in the very last second and the forces lvld out greatly between imps and rebels.
I just cannot understand all this bitching about the game. Is it cheap ... No ... Is it really good ... Yes imo it is. So I pay the price and am happy with the buy.
And the FFG a card policy is great imo. There are lots of people who like to play a game now and than and don't want to memorize books upon books of rules before the play. Would I need it, no but I do not only game with tabletop gamers and FFG produces games for every taste.
Star Wars games cannot exist without nerdrage. Some people are always going to think the game is an epic fail, as if they are being forced to play something they don't like. Even XWing, as great as it is, has some people still acting put-out because all the latter wave releases are "screwing" players to buy "non-canon" ships if they want anything new.
Space Hulk was released to take advantage of nostalgia-driven sales made even desperate by a limited release, nothing more. Its why they refuse to keep it in stock. Its not really a gateway game at all. The starter sets do that better as they actually use 40k rules.
Hell, thats what got me to buy a copy a couple years back, because I never got it in the 90's.
Pacific wrote: Taarnak, can I ask if you are comparing these to wargaming/display miniatures, or those of other board games?
Obviously it's no good if these compare poorly to say the miniatures found in Descent, but if they don't come up to scratch compared to Infinity or something then that is a different matter entirely!
I was mostly comparing them to each other. Proportion issues are in the original sculpts and have very little to nothing to do with them being board game figures.
If I was to compare them to another board game, it would be Zombicide, which has better sculpts and casts than Imperial Assault. It is arguably an higher quality product made by a less experienced manufacturer.
If FFG had taken a bit more care with the miniatures in the sculpting stage, the product would have been stellar. As it is, it's "only" really good. Lol.
~Eric
Cheers for the feedback Eric
Think I will have to give this game some more consideration - of course the game being fun is paramount, but also wanted to paint me some stormtroopers and Han Solo!
Lorien wrote: Dude if you dont like FFG than skip their games.
In you dont like GW dont buy their stuff either.
I just played 3 games of imperial assault and it was great fun. Each game was decided in the very last second and the forces lvld out greatly between imps and rebels.
I just cannot understand all this bitching about the game. Is it cheap ... No ... Is it really good ... Yes imo it is.
Not sure we disagree?
I never doubted the game is good. I only disagreed with people saying it was cheap, which it is not. Other companies, including GW, which itself is considered "expensive" and therefore a useful benchmark, make games cheaper. Wanna do the comparison with Mantic Games instead?
FFGs are great fun, but they are up there in the premium league of highly expensive. Indeed, they can only afford to ask the prices they do, because the have a reputation for making good games. But for the same reasons, their margins are enormous. Many other companies make due (and profit) with half of FFGs margins (though, if they could, they'd ask for higher prices too).
Simply the argument that FFGs prices their products on a razor-slim margin of license and production costs is stupid, yet some people still claim it is. Apparently some people cannot like FFGs without acknowledging that it is not cheap and, as it stands, slightly more expensive than the miniatures games company that usually gets the most flak for being pricey.
FFG is quite normally priced for boardgames, actually they include even more components than some other competitors.
You don´t have much contact with boardgames?
Having all the components right now side by side, there is way more stuff in the IA box than in the SH-box. Taking into account the average street prize SH gets you less for your money.
Friend got this last week. We all like Star Wars (him to a huge ammount) so we sat down and played it.
Just like Dice tower said, its Descent 2.0 with Star Wars. Yes, there are minor tweeks, but its the same.
If your a huge fan of Descent then youll love this, or if you never played Descent you might like it.
In a world of millions of board game options, this one is very low for me, and id rather not play it again personally.
Compaired to hot board mini games out there right now, Shadows of Brimstone and Arcadia quest pass it greatly. Both have far better figures and rule sets. Tiles are about the same, its hard to mess that up now-a-days
SW:IA just feels like a carbon copy. Slap Star Wars on a system already done and your basically just printing money (I dont blame them, id slap Star Wars on everything and watch it fly off the shelves to make a buck)
Note * I am a avid supporter of FFG products as they most of the time have some of the best
Played the first several scenarios over the weekend.
fething AWESOME.
Fixes all the problems I had with Descent 2e and is VERY nail bitingly tense.
Unsure what the complains are about. All the components are of exceptionally high quality, rules are fantastic. The rules index book is the best idea anyone has ever had for boardgame presentation ever.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Just read complaints about the cards in the game? I'm not sure how they're unnecessary. You have equipment cards which do different things. You can get little add-ons. Like one of our characters has a sweet blaster that has the scope slotted onto it now, for automatic +2 Accuracy. Without the little equipment cards I don't know how anyone would remember what color dice to roll and what Surges mean for each item, etc. I'm playing the veteran soldier and I needed to referenced it for two of the three games we played before I memorized it, and then I upgraded and got a Storm Trooper blaster rifle thing (I'm not a big Star Wars fan so I don't know the terms)
It is partially Decent, but an improved version of Decent with the issues worked out. Actually, people that would have liked to play something like Decent but not Decent were more than happy with IA. So there really must be a difference.
You really get the difference when you played 3-4 games. I would consider it more tactical than Descent and all battles were decided by the better tactician.
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