This out to get some interesting answers. Even though there's a few things some people do that tempt me go reach out and smack um, I'm gonna add my biggest and see if anyone else has my pet peeves.


For me, I detest when some insists you measure the distance from a weapon that obviously has range. I could see it the model was 40" away and the weapon has a 48 inch range. But when the target is 8 inches away and your asking if I'm sure that my las-cannon has range.,....that tics me off

I hate it when players betray the Emperor by siding with foul xenos. Bloody heretics.

 TheCustomLime wrote:
I hate it when players betray the Emperor by siding with foul xenos. Bloody heretics.

I hate it when people play Imperium armies and complain they don't have enough stuff. It also bug me when people play the Imperium.

Two pet peeves:

1. Dice shennanigans, which I do not tolerate.
2. Pouting when anything goes wrong for my opponent in a game, which I keep my mouth shut on.

1. Ask what army you're playing before writing up an army list...
If you *really* need to stroke your tiny little man dollies penis that much, go ahead and just take the win. I don't waste my time with an opponent who can only have a "good game" when they're allowed to list tailor.

2. Don't roll up/remove baggy clothing...
I'll admit that I'm a tiny wee lass and wear men's size M or L shirts. However, I do always try as best as possible to keep long sleeves rolled up or else tuck in my shirt to ensure my clothing won't cause any accidents.
Nothing's more frustrating when your up against an opponent who loves to lean across the table while wearing a portable tent and constantly causes models to tip over. Especially when you've got large models such as flyers or MC's near table edges!

3. The Greaseball...
When I can ring the grease out of an opponent's hair & clothes and fill the deep fryer at the nearby McDonald's, even I will gag and say 'dude, don't you dare touch my models or else!'

Players bringing unpainted models to games week after week really bugs me. I get that it's time consuming and expensive and whatever, but put some effort into the hobby. I'd like to see some progress over the course of a month.

I have a tendency to pull my tape measure out and let it go while thinking sometimes, that and completely forget things that had happened from before,even if they had just occured since I am thinking about 100 things at once, like dice rolls which seem cheaty and mundane rules. It doesn't help that I play foot guard. The guys at my store don't comment on it, now that i look back I see that it could have bothered them.

Now I have no opponents, and what bothers me is that I have none to play with. Get a lot of snickers about how I wasted so much money on this........

Most annoying thing to me, honestly, is not knowing rules, or thinking you know them, but you're wrong. Like, back in 6th edition, I was watching my friend play a League game. He was Orks, fighting against Eldar. The girl who was playing Eldar had the tip of her Wraithknight and Wraithlord's base touching a ruin, and said that she had a 4+ cover save. And, she wanted to argue to the bitter end that she was right.

Or like when Dave from Miniwargaming rolls for Dangerous Terrain for Bel'akor...like, really?

Experiment 626 wrote:
1. Ask what army you're playing before writing up an army list...

As an off-shoot from that one, I've never understood why people show up for a game without already having an army list written up.

If I am going somewhere for a game and don't have something pre-arranged, I'll have a few lists in my bag written up for the commonly played points limits. There's nothing worse than lining up a game and then having to sit around for half an hour waiting for the other guy to write a list.

Insaniak - Same here.
I have my pre-built list printed and with me.

Worsed case, i'll bring another unit or 2, but thats only to cover me if someone wants a slightly bigger game.

And even then i'll have a spare list for that.

 Dudecrap wrote:
I have a tendency to pull my tape measure out and let it go while thinking sometimes, that and completely forget things that had happened from before,even if they had just occured since I am thinking about 100 things at once, like dice rolls which seem cheaty and mundane rules. It doesn't help that I play foot guard. The guys at my store don't comment on it, now that i look back I see that it could have bothered them.

Now I have no opponents, and what bothers me is that I have none to play with. Get a lot of snickers about how I wasted so much money on this........

Wasted money to them maybe. But have you had fun with the hobby? Do you enjoy how your army looks? I don't get many games anymore due to life picking up for most players in the area, but I'm still slowly finishing up or improving my Orks. I get enjoyment out of em even without playing.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 bubz wrote:
Players bringing unpainted models to games week after week really bugs me. I get that it's time consuming and expensive and whatever, but put some effort into the hobby. I'd like to see some progress over the course of a month.

I have a fellow at my game shop who has an entire Marine army that isn't painted. His reasoning is so his Marines can be whatever chapter he wants them to be each and every game. He played against my Orks and chose Crimson Fists I believe, then the next game he was running Iron Hands against another Marine player. Its cheesy and shows a lack of commitment to the hobby. One could argue he is allowed to do this, but if so, then why not just paint them a unique color scheme that isn't directly correlated to a specific chapter, that way you can say they are a sub chapter of whatever during every new game, and no one would care. Otherwise, it comes off as 'that guy'.

 insaniak wrote:

Experiment 626 wrote:
1. Ask what army you're playing before writing up an army list...

As an off-shoot from that one, I've never understood why people show up for a game without already having an army list written up.

If I am going somewhere for a game and don't have something pre-arranged, I'll have a few lists in my bag written up for the commonly played points limits. There's nothing worse than lining up a game and then having to sit around for half an hour waiting for the other guy to write a list.

Also had this happen to me countless times. It leaves a bad taste in my mouth. 40K games go on longer than I'd like at times. And having to wait even longer due to an opponent who isn't prepared is annoying. At least now I've got Smash 4 to busy me until he/she finishes making a list.

I have one opponent who always rolls the dice in a dice box at about chest level. He makes noises and faces as he rolls and then tells you how many hits he got. I Know longer tolerate that sort of thing, dice should be rolled in the open, with out any fast hands.

Amended my previous post

insaniak, my problem, is that I never know how many points I'm going to be playing nor what army I'm playing. When I can be playing anywhere from 500-2000 points of two different armies, and not knowing whether or not someone wants to play a competitive list or a casual list.

I've walked in where I've been asked to play a 500 point Tyranid list against someone just starting and then right after being asked to play an 1850 competitive Eldar list for a veteran wanting to get in practice prior to the tourney. I find it more practical to write the list on the spot then bring 32 different army lists to cover every possible scenario.

Of course, YMMV.

To answer the OP however:

 Ailaros wrote:
You know what really bugs me? When my opponent, before they show up at the FLGS smears themselves in peanut butter and then makes blood sacrifices to Ashterai by slitting the throat of three male chickens and then smears the spatter pattern into the peanut butter to engrave sacred symbols into their chest and upper arms.

I have a peanut allergy. It's really inconsiderate.

Actually one other guy really ticked me off. He was continuessly reaching down his pants to scratch his nuts. He reached over to hand me some models that were being removed, In asked him not to....I don't want my minis smelling like balls

Experiment 626 wrote:
1. Ask what army you're playing before writing up an army list...
If you *really* need to stroke your tiny little man dollies penis that much, go ahead and just take the win. I don't waste my time with an opponent who can only have a "good game" when they're allowed to list tailor.

2. Don't roll up/remove baggy clothing...
I'll admit that I'm a tiny wee lass and wear men's size M or L shirts. However, I do always try as best as possible to keep long sleeves rolled up or else tuck in my shirt to ensure my clothing won't cause any accidents.
Nothing's more frustrating when your up against an opponent who loves to lean across the table while wearing a portable tent and constantly causes models to tip over. Especially when you've got large models such as flyers or MC's near table edges!

3. The Greaseball...
When I can ring the grease out of an opponent's hair & clothes and fill the deep fryer at the nearby McDonald's, even I will gag and say 'dude, don't you dare touch my models or else!'

just gonna touch on this.

1) for list tailoring you can ask what an army is before a game and NOT tailor against them. unless ofcourse youd rather stomp them with a tank regiment cos they didnt bring AT guns. or they bring a melta list and run into orks. that kind of thing.

2) i am a big bloke, i ahh wear a portable tent as a shirt. its a knee length dress on my GF haha. i think your second complaint should be more directed at those who just dont take care of other peoples stuff..

3) i dont get this? who has clothes "dripping" in grease so that you could wring it out and fill a deep fryer? greasy hair happens but still....

my only gripes are:
those that dont wash enough and just smell... we all have encountered one.
and secondly as i did say above. people who take no care of other peoples models. as mine are all rather nicely painted i dont want someone who wipes a unit out to just scoop them up in a hand, i dont mind if people touch them, but take some serious care of it.

1. People bragging they beat someone over the head with their cheese list. Yeah, I'm all for friendly jabbing, but when you bring five fliers and he has no AA, did you really win?

2. People who roll dice out of sight. I try not to do this because I know how frustrating it is.

3.People who get upset anytime their model dies or they miss a shot. Yeah, he died, gak happens

 Happyjew wrote:
insaniak, my problem, is that I never know how many points I'm going to be playing nor what army I'm playing. When I can be playing anywhere from 500-2000 points of two different armies, and not knowing whether or not someone wants to play a competitive list or a casual list.

I've walked in where I've been asked to play a 500 point Tyranid list against someone just starting and then right after being asked to play an 1850 competitive Eldar list for a veteran wanting to get in practice prior to the tourney. I find it more practical to write the list on the spot then bring 32 different army lists to cover every possible scenario.

How often do you change your armies?

I used to carry a 750, 1500, 1750 and 2000 point list. If anyone wanted to play something different to that, it's a fairly quick affair to just hack a few points off one of those lists.

jreilly, Regarding number 3. Back in 5th edition, a buddy of mine was playing against an Ork player we kinda had to hang out with (we were friends with his then girlfriend). They were playing Planet Strike. Ork player was attacking, rolled Preliminary Bombardment (or whatever the feth it's called), did no damage to the bastions, and rage quit.

 insaniak wrote:

 Happyjew wrote:
insaniak, my problem, is that I never know how many points I'm going to be playing nor what army I'm playing. When I can be playing anywhere from 500-2000 points of two different armies, and not knowing whether or not someone wants to play a competitive list or a casual list.

I've walked in where I've been asked to play a 500 point Tyranid list against someone just starting and then right after being asked to play an 1850 competitive Eldar list for a veteran wanting to get in practice prior to the tourney. I find it more practical to write the list on the spot then bring 32 different army lists to cover every possible scenario.

How often do you change your armies?

I used to carry a 750, 1500, 1750 and 2000 point list. If anyone wanted to play something different to that, it's a fairly quick affair to just hack a few points off one of those lists.

i can say i dont think iv played the same list twice. but thats more because i have soooo many choices

Melevolence wrote:

 Dudecrap wrote:
I have a tendency to pull my tape measure out and let it go while thinking sometimes, that and completely forget things that had happened from before,even if they had just occured since I am thinking about 100 things at once, like dice rolls which seem cheaty and mundane rules. It doesn't help that I play foot guard. The guys at my store don't comment on it, now that i look back I see that it could have bothered them.

Now I have no opponents, and what bothers me is that I have none to play with. Get a lot of snickers about how I wasted so much money on this........

Wasted money to them maybe. But have you had fun with the hobby? Do you enjoy how your army looks? I don't get many games anymore due to life picking up for most players in the area, but I'm still slowly finishing up or improving my Orks. I get enjoyment out of em even without playing.

I've had fun, but i just dont have the motivation to paint anymore. It feels like I spend hours painting for nothing. Nobody plays around here and my FLGS is 20 min drive away, which me not driving yet is a great hassle to bug my parents to take me at least once or twice a month on their warhammer saturdays. I stick to video game because its what my friends play, but it just gets so dry and boring after so much of the same thing. I try to get friends in, but its just too damn expensive for our age group..........

Reading this thread made me realized I have probably annoyed a few guys, without evening knowing i was doing so......

 TheCustomLime wrote:
I hate it when players betray the Emperor by siding with foul xenos. Bloody heretics.

I agree. I dislike seeing the fluff contradicted, too much of a nerd.. Also dislike when people play to serious, it is all about having a good time!

Melevolence wrote:


I have a fellow at my game shop who has an entire Marine army that isn't painted. His reasoning is so his Marines can be whatever chapter he wants them to be each and every game. He played against my Orks and chose Crimson Fists I believe, then the next game he was running Iron Hands against another Marine player. Its cheesy and shows a lack of commitment to the hobby. One could argue he is allowed to do this, but if so, then why not just paint them a unique color scheme that isn't directly correlated to a specific chapter, that way you can say they are a sub chapter of whatever during every new game, and no one would care. Otherwise, it comes off as 'that guy'.

So he is "cheesy" because he doesn't paint his models, not because he chooses to play different chapters with the same models?

 jreilly89 wrote:

2. People who roll dice out of sight. I try not to do this because I know how frustrating it is.

A dice roll that the other player didn't see didn't happen!

Players who diss on others paint jobs, or insult others because they don't enjoy painting as much as they do.

Steelmage99 wrote:

Melevolence wrote:


I have a fellow at my game shop who has an entire Marine army that isn't painted. His reasoning is so his Marines can be whatever chapter he wants them to be each and every game. He played against my Orks and chose Crimson Fists I believe, then the next game he was running Iron Hands against another Marine player. Its cheesy and shows a lack of commitment to the hobby. One could argue he is allowed to do this, but if so, then why not just paint them a unique color scheme that isn't directly correlated to a specific chapter, that way you can say they are a sub chapter of whatever during every new game, and no one would care. Otherwise, it comes off as 'that guy'.

So he is "cheesy" because he doesn't paint his models, not because he chooses to play different chapters with the same models?

It's cheesy because he refuses to paint his models in order to gain advantages where he needs them. And I'm more than certain he changed Chapters from when we began to about halfway through the match. Though that is due to his gakky inability to write his list down proper so I know for certain what I'm facing. But he does that often, not just against me.

So, again. Cheesy for blatantly seeking to play the chapter that happens to have an edge over whatever enemy he might be facing that day, and refusing to pain for that sole reason. Again, he could paint them hot pink and they could be any chapter at any time. In this case, it goes hand in hand. But his reason for not painting is obvious bs and he is TFG.

I'm not calling every player doesn't paint cheesy. I'd be fine if he was just tinkering with different Chapters before he decided on what one to use. But considering he has been playing for years longer than I have. He's a douche for this.

 Happyjew wrote:
jreilly, Regarding number 3. Back in 5th edition, a buddy of mine was playing against an Ork player we kinda had to hang out with (we were friends with his then girlfriend). They were playing Planet Strike. Ork player was attacking, rolled Preliminary Bombardment (or whatever the feth it's called), did no damage to the bastions, and rage quit.

That's dumb. I feel like once you go through the trouble of setting up and deploying, rage quitting over one thing is silly.

Nothing says he can't paint them and still change chapters whenever.

 insaniak wrote:

Experiment 626 wrote:
1. Ask what army you're playing before writing up an army list...

As an off-shoot from that one, I've never understood why people show up for a game without already having an army list written up.

If I am going somewhere for a game and don't have something pre-arranged, I'll have a few lists in my bag written up for the commonly played points limits. There's nothing worse than lining up a game and then having to sit around for half an hour waiting for the other guy to write a list.

I have a binder with about 40 different lists for my Eldar. They range from 500 points all the way to 22,500 apocalypse lists.

My pet peeve is people who bring tournament netlists to every match. Sure I play Eldar but i have quite effective lists that have 0 wave serpents.

 pretre wrote:
Nothing says he can't paint them and still change chapters whenever.

and thats the truth of it.

i have on many occasions used thousand son cult troops as basic marines? is this against the rules? make the TFG for substituting one thing for another? or do they look a damn sight cooler than basic marines? i tend to think they do.

the color ones army is painted makes no difference on its rules. in the case of marines, as long as he doesnt have calgar leading anyone but ultramarines, etc etc then he is good.

Conceding early, or acting like they want to after like...10 minutes. Why even bother getting my list out on the table if I'm just gonna put it back up?

Itchy dice rolling fingers. We've had to make it a rule that if you roll wrong (like rolling all the saves when there needs to be mixed save method used or whatnot) then the opponent gets to arrange the order of the dice however they want.
A subset of the same, when people don't even know what they're rolling for.

Lastly, when people think any unit they can't kill on turn 1 is "broken and OP" regardless of how much it costs. (This of course is coming from players who don't even bother coming up with a strat to fight them. They just run head first into a strategic brick wall and then claim the unit is broken.)

 pretre wrote:
Nothing says he can't paint them and still change chapters whenever.

Yeah, that was more what I was getting at.
My army of (painted ) marines represent whatever chapter I feel like. They happen to have the Dark Angel chapter marking (because that was my very first army), but they are built with a mix of DA, BT and BA bits, and are painted in a grey colour scheme.
I have no intention of ever deciding on, and sticking to, one single chapter. They will always be flexible.

PS. I always make my lists before I even know what codex I'll be playing against, much less what specific army.

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:
Players who diss on others paint jobs, or insult others because they don't enjoy painting as much as they do.

This, but expanded to anyone who tells you that you are doing any aspect of YOUR hobby wrong. If you don't like the way I do it, go find and play with someone who shares your slightly fascistic view of hobbying, the further away from me the better.

Also;

-People who wear vests to tourneys. Yes its hot, yes we are all sweating, no I don't need to see your greasy hairy pits every time you roll a dice, or get a blast of sour body odour when you throw your arms up in the air having made your FNP roll.

-People who go to the effort of writing a list, but don't bother doing it properly. I've seen '5 Tac squads and a captain. 1000pts'

-Same said people who refuse to explain their lists to you before the game, expecting you to have an encyclopedic knowledge of every unit, random relic and obscure special rule from every codex in existence. Its just good form to explain your lists, you get to show off your nice conversions and you will probably learn something about the 'Champions of Fenris' or whatever too.

-People who forget to roll for 'gets hot' on plasma cannons (not a game goes by where I don't do this)

-People who roll dice by bouncing them off your minis (i.e. the side of a rhino). Just chuck them somewhere else asshat!

-People who don't understand that the whole point of playing SM is to play around with the CTs and keep it interesting. If you were supposed to strictly adhere to one CT for the entirety of your gaming existence, they would have been separate codices/supplements, sold as limited digital editions at heavily marked up prices.

It's already been covered, but number one on the list is touching my figures.

Then of course you have your typical dice holes. The type that pick up the dice and declare hits before you even got a chance to see. Or the type that reroll because they thought Iit was blah blah turn.

The worst dice issue is the tfg that throws 10 d6 right at your figures smashing them like bowling pins.

Lastly is hygiene. Wash people. It's not that hard! Why is it that alot of the people that hang around tables look greasy, smell and are full of dandruff. Take a damn bath! Daily!

I don't like people checking the rulebook or codex all the time when the rules are so basic.

 krodarklorr wrote:

It also bug me when people play the Imperium.

tanker19 wrote:
Actually one other guy really ticked me off. He was continuessly reaching down his pants to scratch his nuts. He reached over to hand me some models that were being removed, In asked him not to....I don't want my minis smelling like balls

Overly manly minis ?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Melevolence wrote:


It's cheesy because he refuses to paint his models in order to gain advantages where he needs them. And I'm more than certain he changed Chapters from when we began to about halfway through the match. Though that is due to his gakky inability to write his list down proper so I know for certain what I'm facing. But he does that often, not just against me.

People like you think they have to suffer to gain that advantage.

People like him think they can play whatever they feel like.


Changing chapters is cheating of course, so if you have proof of that, you should just not play with him anymore - tell him you won't play if he cheats again.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I dislike when people cheat.
Many people I've played cheat half an inch or more when moving their models.

I also dislike when people start telling you how they play for fun and fluff and playing for winning is bad mkay.

I dislike when people whine about balance issues during a game, when in fact 95% of the reason they're losing is their piss-poor deployment and movement phases.

morgoth wrote:

I also dislike when people start telling you how they play for fun and fluff and playing for winning is bad mkay.

I definitely play fluff. When I play Space Wolves, I play to murder EVERYTHING! Nothing says Space Wolf like playing to win. When I play IG, I throw a hundred or so models on the board, or TRACKS EVERYWHERE!!! Because nothing is IG Fluffier than tanks everywhere or blob gunlines.

Point I'm trying to make... WAAC is likely actually fluff.. No army goes in wanting to lose... (doom eagles maybe? But I play those to win too...).... But if you play serpent spam, there's a special place in hell for you.

 ausYenLoWang wrote:

 pretre wrote:
Nothing says he can't paint them and still change chapters whenever.

and thats the truth of it.

i have on many occasions used thousand son cult troops as basic marines? is this against the rules? make the TFG for substituting one thing for another? or do they look a damn sight cooler than basic marines? i tend to think they do.

the color ones army is painted makes no difference on its rules. in the case of marines, as long as he doesnt have calgar leading anyone but ultramarines, etc etc then he is good.

+1
I run 1K sons as normal csm a lot, simply because I don't have black legion rhinos and I don't like putting a group of BL marines in a 1K sons rhino.

 Pyeatt wrote:
But if you play serpent spam, there's a special place in hell for you.

And I dislike when people whine, especially when they whine about Wave Serpents.

Wave serpents are cheap and exploitive, Morgoth. The only other armies that win tourneys are 4 Imperial Knights, flying demon summoning spam, and Marbo standing all alone on an open field.

General annoying things that I don't like happening during a game.
1) First and foremost is people who rage. Like throwing dice across the room, throwing tape measures, punching the air in anger, raising voices to extreme levels(yelling) because things aren't going their way.
2)Crying isn't common, but happens enough that it really takes the fun out of a game.
3)taking an hour for an opponent to write a list.
4)having a pre-made game where your opponent keeps texting he is almost there...for 3 hours. then doesnt bring his army because he "forgot"
These are a few that stick out for me

I have ADHD so some parts of the hobby are huge humps for me to get over.

My worst hump is how i play the game. I constantly am thinking about my strategy and what i want to do, but i also have to remember dice rolls and rules while thinking up my strategy. I usually mess up one of them and end up confusing my opponents. when it comes to dice rolls i will often forget how many hits I get (or usually something to do with numbers). I also play a pseudo foot guard army so my turns also take a long time. I have to go back and re roll alot and that makes my long turns even longer. Worse it can possibly seem like i am cheating =(.

my opponents are fine people, its just i make a bunch of mistakes when it comes to working memory.

There are three things that some players do that I find more annoying then anything else in this hobby.

The first is not washing. If you want to play a game where people have to be in close contact with you, wash before you play.

The second is people who are to kids. Bring a list that is possible for them to play against, not a bloody WAAC list.

The final thing is people complaining about unpainted or badly painted models. If someone doesn't want to paint, that is their decision, NOT yours. Badly painted models may be the best someone can do, and complaining is putting them and their work down.

For example:

 bubz wrote:
Players bringing unpainted models to games week after week really bugs me. I get that it's time consuming and expensive and whatever, but put some effort into the hobby. I'd like to see some progress over the course of a month.

The condescending tone really helps this post by bubz make his point...

Windchild wrote:
There are three things that some players do that I find more annoying then anything else in this hobby.

The first is not washing. If you want to play a game where people have to be in close contact with you, wash before you play.

The second is people who are to kids. Bring a list that is possible for them to play against, not a bloody WAAC list.

The final thing is people complaining about unpainted or badly painted models. If someone doesn't want to paint, that is their decision, NOT yours. Badly painted models may be the best someone can do, and complaining is putting them and their work down.

For example:

 bubz wrote:
Players bringing unpainted models to games week after week really bugs me. I get that it's time consuming and expensive and whatever, but put some effort into the hobby. I'd like to see some progress over the course of a month.

The condescending tone really helps this post by bubz make his point...

I agree with all of this, but particularly the last one. Lately there seems to be lots of people on here complaining about unpainted models. Ive just started painting, and in two days ive painted about 1 and a half space marines and 1 Skorne light warbeast. If I had people around here to play against, i know id rather have spent that time playing. I do want to paint my own stuff but it takes some people a LONG time. Other people might have different priorities in THEIR hobby than you. Get over it.

morgoth wrote:

tanker19 wrote:
Actually one other guy really ticked me off. He was continuessly reaching down his pants to scratch his nuts. He reached over to hand me some models that were being removed, In asked him not to....I don't want my minis smelling like balls

Overly manly minis ?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Melevolence wrote:


It's cheesy because he refuses to paint his models in order to gain advantages where he needs them. And I'm more than certain he changed Chapters from when we began to about halfway through the match. Though that is due to his gakky inability to write his list down proper so I know for certain what I'm facing. But he does that often, not just against me.

People like you think they have to suffer to gain that advantage.

People like him think they can play whatever they feel like.


Changing chapters is cheating of course, so if you have proof of that, you should just not play with him anymore - tell him you won't play if he cheats again.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I dislike when people cheat.
Many people I've played cheat half an inch or more when moving their models.

I also dislike when people start telling you how they play for fun and fluff and playing for winning is bad mkay.

I dislike when people whine about balance issues during a game, when in fact 95% of the reason they're losing is their piss-poor deployment and movement phases.

He has to 'suffer' to make his army look cool? If he really wants it that way, I obviously can't make him paint. But to get mad at me because I find his army boring to look at is foolish. Doesn't change the fact his army looks boring.

I'm not telling anyone how to play. I find it rather That Guy when he hasn't decided his chapter until he sees who he faces. Playing to win is fine. No one goes into a game to lose. That would be like if my Orks had the ability to change Klans. Marines are unique in that they have the flexibility of x amount of chapter tactics. Which is nice. It's fluffy, it's cool. But when someone is being a tool and won't properly build his list before hand, just so he can see what he is facing so he can say "oh, yeah, these were x chapter by the way. Yeah, the chapter that gives me a blatant edge over your army. That's cool, right?"

So if I'm 'that kind of person' because I dislike total jerkwads. Sue me. I can tell you right now, if I ever did that in my group, I'd get weird looks. There's nothing on the line with the games played at our venue. So to take that sort of route with your games is considered That Guy. You don't have to agree. That's the great thing about opinions. This is mine.

Forgetting a special rule that influences rolls (such as "units within 12'' gain Preferred Enemy" or something) after those rolls have long been made, then complaining and wanting to go back to that point, even though it was a whole turn or more ago and so many things have happened that we don't even remember the state the board was in at the time.

Touching my stuff. Dropping dice on the floor then picking them up and continuing to use them. I am the sort of person who is far too clean, so I wouldn't be happy unless the offending die were washed or set aside to be washed.

Most of the time this wouldn't annoy me, but people not allowing 1pt above or below the total. Usually I'd say that the total is the total, but the Chaos Space Marines book is so full of strange numbers that it is often a nightmare to get things even.

 Frozen Ocean wrote:
Forgetting a special rule that influences rolls (such as "units within 12'' gain Preferred Enemy" or something) after those rolls have long been made, then complaining and wanting to go back to that point, even though it was a whole turn or more ago and so many things have happened that we don't even remember the state the board was in at the time.

Touching my stuff. Dropping dice on the floor then picking them up and continuing to use them. I am the sort of person who is far too clean, so I wouldn't be happy unless the offending die were washed or set aside to be washed.

Most of the time this wouldn't annoy me, but people not allowing 1pt above or below the total. Usually I'd say that the total is the total, but the Chaos Space Marines book is so full of strange numbers that it is often a nightmare to get things even.

I hate the last point as well. I'm pretty lenient in totals, often having let people go up to 15 points over. If it's not an event with prizes or anything, then why not? Though, pretty much all players in my area are good about that sort of thing, and often don't ask to go over if it's so they can cram one more of something ridiculous into their list.

What I really dislike is when people keep pressing on about the same rules over and over, even when they're shown they're wrong. It's like their pride in being 'right' is more important than a correct game procedure. I even avoid threads in YMDC with many pages (generally they're exactly what I described).

bibotot wrote:
I don't like people checking the rulebook or codex all the time when the rules are so basic.

Looks like we won't play each other that much (if the occasion comes up); I forget some stuff here and there and I like to check in the book for stuff one or both players don't know/forgot.

If I forget a re-roll, and the game has not progressed much (for example, still in the same shooting phase, and nothing else has shot that unit), I'll ask my opponent if he'll allow the re-rolls. If he says no, well too bad for me. I should have remembered.

 Dudecrap wrote:
[
Reading this thread made me realized I have probably annoyed a few guys, without evening knowing i was doing so......

Realizing that is actually a pretty big step forward (to not doing that anymore (too much)).

 Happyjew wrote:
If I forget a re-roll, and the game has not progressed much (for example, still in the same shooting phase, and nothing else has shot that unit), I'll ask my opponent if he'll allow the re-rolls. If he says no, well too bad for me. I should have remembered.

Yep. There are times I forget a roll, or I forget to do something as well, though I tend not to ask to take it back. It's helped me remember over time :p Punish yourself enough and you'll soon not forget!

 Happyjew wrote:
If I forget a re-roll, and the game has not progressed much (for example, still in the same shooting phase, and nothing else has shot that unit), I'll ask my opponent if he'll allow the re-rolls. If he says no, well too bad for me. I should have remembered.

Oh, sure, I'm definitely fine with that sort of thing, especially when it's being asked rather than being complained at. Doing things that are on the level of "I forgot about It Will Not Die. That thing that died two turns ago might not be dead, so it could have killed that which means that that wouldn't have killed that, so it's not fair unless we reverse time" is totally different.

nothing, nothing at all, some of my mates annoy me (and vice versa) but that happens in and out of the game, all in all im a lucky chap

 koooaei wrote:

 krodarklorr wrote:

It also bug me when people play the Imperium.

Ha ha. Touché

A friend of mine would roll dice and if one of the dice so happened to roll into a model he would demand to re-roll the dice, at first it diddnt phase me but he made it a point that it was only fair especially when the roll was bad.
I think the biggest pet peeve of mine is when people go over the point limits to fit in that extra guy especially when its over 5 points.

 krodarklorr wrote:

 TheCustomLime wrote:
I hate it when players betray the Emperor by siding with foul xenos. Bloody heretics.

I hate it when people play Imperium armies and complain they don't have enough stuff. It also bug me when people play the Imperium.

Exalted!

Bugs me when someone removes models before I even roll to hit or roll to wound.

 FinkleLord wrote:
Bugs me when someone removes models before I even roll to hit or roll to wound.

Why would someone do that haha. Not saying its not happened to you I just don't get the logic.

 ImAGeek wrote:

 FinkleLord wrote:
Bugs me when someone removes models before I even roll to hit or roll to wound.

Why would someone do that haha. Not saying its not happened to you I just don't get the logic.

Because they assume they are going to die lol

That would annoy me too just because it doesn't make sense..? Surely if there's even a chance your guys'll live you'll take it.

 FinkleLord wrote:
Bugs me when someone removes models before I even roll to hit or roll to wound.

Last game a squad of 4 chaos spawns with 6 attacks each and a biker sorc charged my 2 grot gunners. We decided not to waste time on pile ins and a chance of 2 t2 armor- wound stopping a murdertrain. Nope, that could theoretically happen - i'd say, it's around 0.016% actually. But...

 Occhiolini wrote:
I think the biggest pet peeve of mine is when people go over the point limits to fit in that extra guy especially when its over 5 points.

This, especially when your opponent then has meltabombs on all his sergeants and refuses to remove them on one.

Also - tournament specific - when you get home and find some of the lists you were up against had done their maths wrong and were at least 50 points over. That said, if you still beat that list it does give you an extra bit of satisfaction

Moving one unit after measuring everything multiple times, moving another unit after measuring everything multiple times, returning to the first unit, measuring everything multiple times, then adjust the position of the first unit by a minimal distance, measuring everything multiple times, returning to the second unit, and so on. Turns take an hour and it's really boring and annoying.

 FinkleLord wrote:
Bugs me when someone removes models before I even roll to hit or roll to wound.

I knew a guy that when he would start losing like about turn 3 or 4, he would be taking his own models off the table and packing them up because he was no longer in the mood to play. Then the fact he thought he knew my armies rules even though he really didn't know his.

Hanskrampf wrote:
Moving one unit after measuring everything multiple times, moving another unit after measuring everything multiple times, returning to the first unit, measuring everything multiple times, then adjust the position of the first unit by a minimal distance, measuring everything multiple times, returning to the second unit, and so on. Turns take an hour and it's really boring and annoying.

And is against the rules

Once you go onto moving another unit, the first unit has finished movement.

Someone moving a unit, then deciding he wants to move another unit first and places them back, but then when he moves them a second time, they miraculously move one or two inches further.

I have no problem with people changing their minds, but please take care in putting your models exactly back to where they were before.

Windchild wrote:

The second is people who are to kids. Bring a list that is possible for them to play against, not a bloody WAAC list.

As a kid, I would have been disgusted to be treated any differently.

Plus kids generally have a lot more potential than adults... but hey, smashing a new player into the ground isn't really nice I agree.

For those I tend to give big handicaps so they can clearly see how their list building skills can evolve and what it will change.

 bubz wrote:
Players bringing unpainted models to games week after week really bugs me. I get that it's time consuming and expensive and whatever, but put some effort into the hobby. I'd like to see some progress over the course of a month.

They might be painting up their surprise unit, and you don't see any progress until they spring it on you.
But yeah, playing the same unpainted models all the time is something I end up doing, when I concentrate on 1 army, but play another. It's probably annoying for those I play against.

morgoth wrote:

Windchild wrote:

The second is people who are to kids. Bring a list that is possible for them to play against, not a bloody WAAC list.

As a kid, I would have been disgusted to be treated any differently.

Plus kids generally have a lot more potential than adults... but hey, smashing a new player into the ground isn't really nice I agree.

For those I tend to give big handicaps so they can clearly see how their list building skills can evolve and what it will change.

When I started playing (fifth edition, 10 years old), my second game was against an IG Tank Line...

I had only a three weapons in my army which could take out a Leman Russ (and 5 Terminators).

I was tabled in three turns by an opponent who was cheating (only had 1 troop, would say that his tanks were much better then they were, etc.)


If I could have fought against it, I'd agree. I was fine with facing Tank Line after Tank Line once I had the models to scratch a LRBT.

I understand your point, but I do have reasons why I dislike it (I continued, whereas most of the other youth didn't)

I really dislike a lot of little things.

When people move an extra 1/4th inch because they moved the tape measure as well (usually on accident, but I feel like an ass pointing it out)

When people can't seem to tell which direction the scatter dice points.

When people nickle and dime movement. Move 6, then re-arrange a few times to get another inch.

When people dont measure weapons from the base, or the proper weapon.

People who snatch up dice too fast, or roll too far for the other player to see.

People who bitch and moan about my armies lore.


Those were all from the same opponent too.

Hmmm the most annoying shenanigans:

1) Wait to see what I have before they pull out their "list" from a stack of paper. I now use an opaque carry container and pull out my one army list face-down and wait.
2) Roll a single die, one at a time "just so" with predictably good results. Surprisingly, some did not think of it as cheating till "natural rolling" is explained.
3) Any attempts at not being "transparent" where rolls are not easily seen, special rules not explained about their army, unwilling to look up a rule. Tend to find people who like to make rules on the fly.
4) Those who confuse part of playing a game includes trying to game the player = "mind games", take your psychological warfare elsewhere.
5) Partially assembled game pieces used. I have played against models with only a base, legs and a torso. Bare minimum to represent the latest net-list = no effort invested (why do that? no payback, flavor of the month).
6) Grabby people who touch my models without a thought in or out of game. Guess where 90% of my in-field model repairs come from?

About the worst of it.

Hanskrampf wrote:
Moving one unit after measuring everything multiple times, moving another unit after measuring everything multiple times, returning to the first unit, measuring everything multiple times, then adjust the position of the first unit by a minimal distance, measuring everything multiple times, returning to the second unit, and so on. Turns take an hour and it's really boring and annoying.

Yes! Annoying as . It's not that critical if it off by 1 mm! Or the bastards who pull the tape measure over your units with spiky thin breakable bits and demand you measure from base shoving a large metal tape measure into the center of a squad. Smashing things apart!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also. I solved the dice issues by bringing a baking tray and placing it on an unused part of the table. All dice throws are done there, in plain sight, without risk of them rolling off the table , smashing the minis, etc.

rules lawyers who are conviniently quiet when it's their turn.
also people who whine because a unit was moved 1/4 an inch extra in my god tyranid army. I'm not gonna measuer every single one of my fething gaunts

It's not really a playing thing, I guess, as I only have a small amount of Space Marines and mostly play Fantasy, but I get really annoyed when people hate the Ultramarines for no good reason.

My biggest pet peeve of all time; Tournaments that don't allow for a proper lunch slot... I know guys generally have this super special power whereby you can chew most anything 3 times, swallow & done, but girls aren't really built for that.

Nothing makes me feel worse than having to eat while setting up/playing the next round because the organisers only allowed for a 60min lunch slot, which inevitably gets cut in half due to everything running a bit late.

 Brennonjw wrote:
rules lawyers who are conviniently quiet when it's their turn.
also people who whine because a unit was moved 1/4 an inch extra in my god tyranid army. I'm not gonna measuer every single one of my fething gaunts

I don't think you get it.

Either you measure properly, and that means I don't have to check anymore.

Or you don't, and that means you're cheating.


Learn to move your units, or do what a WHFB player I know does: measure 6, move 5.x so there is no discussion.

And for your gaunts ? get a movement tray.

EddieJA wrote:
It's not really a playing thing, I guess, as I only have a small amount of Space Marines and mostly play Fantasy, but I get really annoyed when people hate the Ultramarines for no good reason.

I hate them, along with the Imperium, for very good reasons.

2 things. First off, going over points, even by one. I'm up there with the people who care more about the "spirit of the game"/beer and pretzels/bring fluffy or TAC lists even when I know exactly what my opponent will be bringing/try to win no matter what, but only start to play if both people will have fun, etc... But if we're playing a 1500 point game, it means up to and including 1500 points. Now, I've never said no to someone who asked if they could go 1 point over, but it still pisses me off deep down.

Oh and people who complain about how badly their marines roll on armour saves. No one rolls worse on chaos marine armour saves than me, therefore only I am allowed to kvetch about it! And even then, only because for the rest of the game I talk about how their "saving up their luck" for one big moment. And when it comes I announce it and take full credit for my great planning, in arranging the game to come down to that roll of the dice.

rolls dices without telling you what they are doing and then tell you to roll saves .... like ,whoa ,wait what did you just do ?

Fast hands and picking up successful dice instead of the failures annoy me. Especially when there are a lot of re-rolls.

But what annoys me are the people who forget that their sole purpose when standing up to that table is to ensure their opponent(s) has an enjoyable experience.

Whether that is by having a hard fought, balls-to-the-wall, 2+ hour slugfest, playing a narrative scenario where the story of the game is more important than the final outcome, or anything in between.

If both players have this mentality going in, and discuss what they want out of the game, then there should be zero problems. It's all about being aware of your actions and the effect they have on others.

morgoth wrote:

 Brennonjw wrote:
rules lawyers who are conviniently quiet when it's their turn.
also people who whine because a unit was moved 1/4 an inch extra in my god tyranid army. I'm not gonna measure every single one of my fething gaunts

I don't think you get it.

Either you measure properly, and that means I don't have to check anymore.

Or you don't, and that means you're cheating.


Learn to move your units, or do what a WHFB player I know does: measure 6, move 5.x so there is no discussion.

And for your gaunts ? get a movement tray.

oh yes a movement tray, in 40k. if i measure the front and back row and move betwine the two, why does it matter if one gaunt is slightly closer then 6 inches?

morgoth wrote:

 Brennonjw wrote:
rules lawyers who are conviniently quiet when it's their turn.
also people who whine because a unit was moved 1/4 an inch extra in my god tyranid army. I'm not gonna measuer every single one of my fething gaunts

I don't think you get it.

Either you measure properly, and that means I don't have to check anymore.

Or you don't, and that means you're cheating.


Learn to move your units, or do what a WHFB player I know does: measure 6, move 5.x so there is no discussion.

And for your gaunts ? get a movement tray.

Fine, but I expect you to move your guys 6.000000", NOT AN INCH MORE!

 Brennonjw wrote:

morgoth wrote:

 Brennonjw wrote:
rules lawyers who are conviniently quiet when it's their turn.
also people who whine because a unit was moved 1/4 an inch extra in my god tyranid army. I'm not gonna measure every single one of my fething gaunts

I don't think you get it.

Either you measure properly, and that means I don't have to check anymore.

Or you don't, and that means you're cheating.


Learn to move your units, or do what a WHFB player I know does: measure 6, move 5.x so there is no discussion.

And for your gaunts ? get a movement tray.

oh yes a movement tray, in 40k. if i measure the front and back row and move betwine the two, why does it matter if one gaunt is slightly closer then 6 inches?

Especialy as i absolutely g'tee that morgoth will also cheat during a game, likely unknowingly. Its almost impossible to play an exactly correct game of 40k, due to the horribly written rules.

Quibbling over an irrelevancy != correcting an error whcih has impact. 1 gaunt in the middle of a horde is very unlikely to have a huge impact in terms of their precise location, and so "good enough" is just that - good enough, not cheating.

morgoth wrote:

 Brennonjw wrote:
rules lawyers who are conviniently quiet when it's their turn.
also people who whine because a unit was moved 1/4 an inch extra in my god tyranid army. I'm not gonna measuer every single one of my fething gaunts

I don't think you get it.

Either you measure properly, and that means I don't have to check anymore.

Or you don't, and that means you're cheating.


Learn to move your units, or do what a WHFB player I know does: measure 6, move 5.x so there is no discussion.

And for your gaunts ? get a movement tray.

movement trays in 40k?
cos we use ranks yo, or so that your serpent spam can get more under a template? not a chance,
the closest you will get is iv got one of those quick measures and if im out by 1/8 of an inch it really is no massive thing. i think you have never used a swarm type army and dont realise the notion of quick moving 200 models, but if youd like im sure someone will individually measure models movements for you jsut to show how its done.

 jreilly89 wrote:
Fine, but I expect you to move your guys 6.000000", NOT AN INCH MORE!

It's not as hard as it sounds, really


Automatically Appended Next Post:

nosferatu1001 wrote:
Quibbling over an irrelevancy != correcting an error whcih has impact. 1 gaunt in the middle of a horde is very unlikely to have a huge impact in terms of their precise location, and so "good enough" is just that - good enough, not cheating.

Except most of those people who consider "one quarter of an inch" to be no big deal, actually always get additional movement, and not just on a gaunt in the middle of a horde - which can actually make a BIG difference in the following case, which I had happen to me last week:

1. from northwest, moves south east
2. from there, moves south
3. from there, moves east.
4. from there, charges east.

And all the movement that was cheated in the middle of the horde helped immensely in making the charge possible.

Forget to use the power of bathing.

I find youthful screaming, BO, table flipping, and unpainted armies to be terribly annoying. Not necessarily in that order but more in just a general way. I would have to think about it for a little while if I had to say what one was the most annoying or even which ones were more annoying then the others. They're all red flags for me though.

 Sledgehammer wrote:
I have ADHD so some parts of the hobby are huge humps for me to get over.

My worst hump is how i play the game. I constantly am thinking about my strategy and what i want to do, but i also have to remember dice rolls and rules while thinking up my strategy. I usually mess up one of them and end up confusing my opponents. when it comes to dice rolls i will often forget how many hits I get (or usually something to do with numbers). I also play a pseudo foot guard army so my turns also take a long time. I have to go back and re roll alot and that makes my long turns even longer. Worse it can possibly seem like i am cheating =(.

my opponents are fine people, its just i make a bunch of mistakes when it comes to working memory.

Funny, if I had ADHD, we'd be the same exact people . And I play pseudo foot guard. Sometimes I even find myself trying to count how many dice I have in my hand like 2-3 times........thankfully I have the chessex blocks so using a little math helps. I feel your pain.

The first time I went to my local shop, I was terrified of looking bummy/nasty. Only once have I ever forgot deodera t, and I was flipping out inside. If I ever get to go back, I'd def take whatever said in this thread to consideration!

 Dudecrap wrote:

 Sledgehammer wrote:
I have ADHD so some parts of the hobby are huge humps for me to get over.

My worst hump is how i play the game. I constantly am thinking about my strategy and what i want to do, but i also have to remember dice rolls and rules while thinking up my strategy. I usually mess up one of them and end up confusing my opponents. when it comes to dice rolls i will often forget how many hits I get (or usually something to do with numbers). I also play a pseudo foot guard army so my turns also take a long time. I have to go back and re roll alot and that makes my long turns even longer. Worse it can possibly seem like i am cheating =(.

my opponents are fine people, its just i make a bunch of mistakes when it comes to working memory.

Funny, if I had ADHD, we'd be the same exact people . And I play pseudo foot guard. Sometimes I even find myself trying to count how many dice I have in my hand like 2-3 times........thankfully I have the chessex blocks so using a little math helps. I feel your pain.

The first time I went to my local shop, I was terrified of looking bummy/nasty. Only once have I ever forgot deodera t, and I was flipping out inside. If I ever get to go back, I'd def take whatever said in this thread to consideration!

Develop a checklist on procedures to follow. Write it down if you have to. I have really bad short term memory and that helped a lot.

 Frazzled wrote:

 Dudecrap wrote:

 Sledgehammer wrote:
I have ADHD so some parts of the hobby are huge humps for me to get over.
My worst hump is how i play the game. I constantly am thinking about my strategy and what i want to do, but i also have to remember dice rolls and rules while thinking up my strategy. I usually mess up one of them and end up confusing my opponents. when it comes to dice rolls i will often forget how many hits I get (or usually something to do with numbers). I also play a pseudo foot guard army so my turns also take a long time. I have to go back and re roll alot and that makes my long turns even longer. Worse it can possibly seem like i am cheating =(.
my opponents are fine people, its just i make a bunch of mistakes when it comes to working memory.

Funny, if I had ADHD, we'd be the same exact people . And I play pseudo foot guard. Sometimes I even find myself trying to count how many dice I have in my hand like 2-3 times........thankfully I have the chessex blocks so using a little math helps. I feel your pain.
The first time I went to my local shop, I was terrified of looking bummy/nasty. Only once have I ever forgot deodera t, and I was flipping out inside. If I ever get to go back, I'd def take whatever said in this thread to consideration!

Develop a checklist on procedures to follow. Write it down if you have to. I have really bad short term memory and that helped a lot.

Good advice.

My son has ADHD so to have something "concrete" like a checklist to refer to really does help.
The summary in the back of the book like sequence of turns are also of some help in keeping track.

My kid is FAST so seeing someone on a mission like him can give the impression of "pulling a fast-one" with dice when he is just trying to "get'er dun".
The only trait that can be a bit troubling for my son is if you inform him of something he will say "I know" even when you are sure he did not until that moment.
It is like he hears what you say while filing away the information, checks to see it is there and then thinks "the information is there, so I knew that already", gives the appearance of a "know-it-all".
Is this a common thing? Not sure, but it does show that people can be wired a certain way and just needs a little tolerance.

 Talizvar wrote:

 Frazzled wrote:

 Dudecrap wrote:

 Sledgehammer wrote:
I have ADHD so some parts of the hobby are huge humps for me to get over.
My worst hump is how i play the game. I constantly am thinking about my strategy and what i want to do, but i also have to remember dice rolls and rules while thinking up my strategy. I usually mess up one of them and end up confusing my opponents. when it comes to dice rolls i will often forget how many hits I get (or usually something to do with numbers). I also play a pseudo foot guard army so my turns also take a long time. I have to go back and re roll alot and that makes my long turns even longer. Worse it can possibly seem like i am cheating =(.
my opponents are fine people, its just i make a bunch of mistakes when it comes to working memory.

Funny, if I had ADHD, we'd be the same exact people . And I play pseudo foot guard. Sometimes I even find myself trying to count how many dice I have in my hand like 2-3 times........thankfully I have the chessex blocks so using a little math helps. I feel your pain.
The first time I went to my local shop, I was terrified of looking bummy/nasty. Only once have I ever forgot deodera t, and I was flipping out inside. If I ever get to go back, I'd def take whatever said in this thread to consideration!

Develop a checklist on procedures to follow. Write it down if you have to. I have really bad short term memory and that helped a lot.

Good advice.

My son has ADHD so to have something "concrete" like a checklist to refer to really does help.
The summary in the back of the book like sequence of turns are also of some help in keeping track.

My kid is FAST so seeing someone on a mission like him can give the impression of "pulling a fast-one" with dice when he is just trying to "get'er dun".
The only trait that can be a bit troubling for my son is if you inform him of something he will say "I know" even when you are sure he did not until that moment.
It is like he hears what you say while filing away the information, checks to see it is there and then thinks "the information is there, so I knew that already", gives the appearance of a "know-it-all".
Is this a common thing? Not sure, but it does show that people can be wired a certain way and just needs a little tolerance.

I understand where your son is coming from, and have the same problem.

He knew the information, it just wasn't being remembered until given a hint. It was described to me as being similar to having a single, massive file with all of your knowledge in it. It takes a longer time for you to find the information, but more is remembered. The amount of time it takes to remember can be taken as you not knowing the information.

It's a nasty problem with school...

I have one main pet peeve, really. I generally don't like to make a thing of it as I am a club officer and want to set a positive example at all times, but this tends to really grate on me.

I dislike rule debates immensely.

I don't mean, "these rules are confusing, how do they work?" debates. I mean "the rules are clear, but I am paraphrasing it and so is the other guy and both our memories of the rule are hazy and neither of us is bothering with the precise wording so we've created this hole that isn't really there which we must now fence over" debates.

I find more than ever that rules confusion is from two players who have clashing vague memories of a rule than because of the rule itself. This is very bad because in this age of the game it is very fashionable and cool to be like "HA isn't GW rules writing SOOOO terrible!?!" so most people assume their half-complete construct of the rule is gospel simply because it HAS a glaring hole or two in it.

I really, really hate this.

When people proxy models but don't tell you before the game what they are proxying. I don't mind proxies and on occasion I do it myself, but if I charge a horde of clan rats with queek that turn out to be queeks stormvermin I'm gunna be pissed off.
Probably the most annoying thing for me is when people change their temperament during a game. For example a player at my local store is pretty agreeable and nice while the game is even but when he's winning he's very loud and in your face, when he's losing comes the real irritation, he mumbles sighs loudly and often says things like "well I'm gunna lose anyway." IMO it's really not hard to be friendly and a good sport all throughout a game. I personally try and be upbeat and bring a good vibe to a game even when I'm being smashed.

Some funny stuff in this thread. It's interesting to see the differing personality types in our hobby (as with any other, I suppose).

I can abide just about anything. I let my opponents shoot in the assault phase with units they've forgotten, re-shoot at a unit of theirs because they forgot about a special rule, whatever. I mostly just want to play the game, and wasting time quibbling over things doesn't seem worth it.

The most annoying type of player is one who is easily distracted. Games of 40k are long enough as it is. If you need to greet every person that walks through the door and have a 5 minute conversation with each of them while I wait to roll my dice because I'll be damned if I just do it without him watching and be accused of cheating later, probably by the numbskull my opponent is chatting with, as they look up from the youtube video they were watching on numbskull's phone -- then you're a dick.

"Hey, I'm taking my autocannon shots at your Plague Marines. Here we go. Hey, dude. Dude. Here we go, 8 shots. Boom 6 hits. Hey, that's 6 hits. Hey! 6 hits, ok? And that's... 3 wounds. 3 armor saves. Hey, 3 3-ups. Yo! 3 3-ups, c'mon."

And we're playing 2000-2500 point games! Maybe 3 hours with all the rules-referencing if we proceed at a good pace. 5 hour games make me want to kill myself.

Second worst offense is the "Lore Expert" who must contradict any bit of lore being discussed by the group over the most insignificant minutia possible. "That wouldn't happen." "They'd never do that." "Space Marines would never do that."

Not really a playing thing but it aggravates me when people try to correct me on the pronunciation of 40k terms.

For example I always pronounce Chimera as Ki-meera, but a friend of mine always corrects me and say 'no it Chy-meeera'

It really doesn't bother me that I may be saying it wrong or that he may have it wrong. I say it the way I like and so should you, at the end of the day does it really matter? I wouldn't dream of correcting someones pronunciation.

Currently the most annoying thing for me is when people leave mid or after the game to go get food or smoke break or whatever without clearing there stuff so others cant play

Frickin bonkers.

I hate it when my opponent and I leave our game for like 5 minutes to take a quick smoke, or get some food, and people have carefully moved our stuff out of the way so they can play.

Crazy.


@Desubot, I am of course just kidding about this.

I dislike poor sportsmanship and childish behavior, the negative kind.

Does anyone remember "The Hand of god"? or saw the video someone posted on dakka? Well if that ever happened to me...Then that would really grind my gears.

Points over, and no list brought.

Drives me mental.

2000 point game? Sure! I'll spend 2 plus hours making a thematic, awesome list that relies on synergy, careful placement, an overarching tactical philosophy and also uses a large proportion of painted models to boot. It will be carefully thought out, and mindful of whether we're playing a casual or tournament practice game. This is going to be awesome.

I show up, and Ronald McDonald is late, with a mishmash of unpainted models (some might be on bases!) And has no list. But he'll quickly put one together - no worries! ''Hey, what army are you playing? Do you mind if I proxy this pile of blank bases as a variety of units that I don't own yet? I just started playing [FOTM].‘‘

Mind boggling.

When people using insta-win lists begin preaching in a condescending way about how I ought to become more skilled- makes me want rip their fething jaws off and wear their tongue as a fething necktie.

I could put a list of bitch sessions on here a mile long from my vast history of nerdness, but i solved the problem and only enjoy games with close friends over beer and laughter. there are somethings i've noticed across this forum that sort of bothers me(i know off subject, whatever file a lawsuit) first, why do so many people complain about unpainted models? i have one, yes one model painted out of about 250 pieces of plastic..yes i understand it adds flavor to the game experience, well sorry i don't have hours of my day to spend painting away(you know work,real life stuff) i have a life outside of the game, which should not stop me from having a fun and refreshing experience with a fellow player via the outlet of a hobby. Two, i find it really shattering to see "oh this race/army is horrible because GW made them a codex worthy of wiping a homeless man's ass" ok well it takes two to tango, one yes GW maybe engineered some flaws into the codex, but two it takes players to spam lists known to be overpowered with the "fun killer" factor that drives that message. Unless your playing for money or somebodys life, then people should be pulling out whatever catches their fancy in his/her's codex..not whats good or "wins". My past experience life with other games(tournements, gak like that with "prizes") has given me a view that i think some people have yet to collect..in the end games are just games, if you live to win and collect winnings or self gratification then you sir/mam belong in your parents basement..alone looking at porn and smelling of sweaty ballbag and fast food. For those who keep the true spirit of war gaming going, you know those who live to bust out the "crap pieces" for fun, i tip my hat to you, for those who don't care if they win/lose and look for humor and release in your hobby...i again tip my hat to you.

Can anyone explain WHY people that play 40k often smell so bad? I don't encounter it anywhere else never with the frequency except from people I meet at a drug dealers house (I don't touch the things, but been pals with the guy for a long time - life takes us all different places). But still thats the only comparison. Why do so many 40k players have terrible hygiene? I would love to know the correlation

 SHUPPET wrote:
Can anyone explain WHY people that play 40k often smell so bad? I don't encounter it anywhere else never with the frequency except from people I meet at a drug dealers house (I don't touch the things, but been pals with the guy for a long time - life takes us all different places). But still thats the only comparison. Why do so many 40k players have terrible hygiene? I would love to know the correlation

because i hate to say this but hobbysexuals area real thing, the poon is overided by the need to have the most splendid painted pieces and the most number of wins, yet i've met couples who smell like the bottom end of a terd chute too...i believe theres a level of nerdness/hobby gaming that rivals being a dirtball...where nothing matters but the next episode of some bland boring mainstream tv show, and making your next "cheesy winning list/team"

It irritates me when people are sloppy when providing their lists for me to look at.

Like, I personally put a lot of effort into making my list as legible and transparent as possible for my opponents, so that they can clearly understand my list. I don't expect this same level of effort from them, but it's irksome when I link them to this and then their response is just like "cool, im taking four tactical squads with drop-pods, three predators a captain and a command squad with a drop pod."

Drives me nuts. What's equally annoying is that people don't distinguish the differences between two identical units. I play 40K over the internet, using Roll20, so WYSIWYG isn't applicable. There is no visible way to discern what Slaaneshi Herald one has and what Slaaneshi Herald two has just from looking at the sprites. So, giving the two models different color tints and saying "the blue one has the Grimoire, the Green one has the Portalgyph" is very helpful, as is labeling each unit and making the label visible for your opponent. Most people in my gaming group don't do this, and it's frustrating.

And I doubt it's due to maliciousness, or some desire to cheat. It's just laziness.

 BlaxicanX wrote:
It irritates me when people are sloppy when providing their lists for me to look at.

Like, I personally put a lot of effort into making my list as legible and transparent as possible for my opponents, so that they can clearly understand my list. I don't expect this same level of effort from them, but it's irksome when I link them to this and then their response is just like "cool, im taking four tactical squads with drop-pods, three predators a captain and a command squad with a drop pod."

Drives me nuts. What's equally annoying is that people don't distinguish the differences between two identical units. I play 40K over the internet, using Roll20, so WYSIWYG isn't applicable. There is no visible way to discern what Slaaneshi Herald one has and what Slaaneshi Herald two has just from looking at the sprites. So, giving the two models different color tints and saying "the blue one has the Grimoire, the Green one has the Portalgyph" is very helpful, as is labeling each unit and making the label visible for your opponent. Most people in my gaming group don't do this, and it's frustrating.

And I doubt it's due to maliciousness, or some desire to cheat. It's just laziness.

you play 40k over the web? how?

 SHUPPET wrote:
Can anyone explain WHY people that play 40k often smell so bad? I don't encounter it anywhere else never with the frequency except from people I meet at a drug dealers house (I don't touch the things, but been pals with the guy for a long time - life takes us all different places). But still thats the only comparison. Why do so many 40k players have terrible hygiene? I would love to know the correlation

It's not just 40k. It happens with M:TG, D&D, Battletech...
The issue is that people like that are social pariahs. Our hobbies tend to attract people who are social pariahs. 1+1=2.

 Talizvar wrote:

 Frazzled wrote:

 Dudecrap wrote:

 Sledgehammer wrote:
I have ADHD so some parts of the hobby are huge humps for me to get over.
My worst hump is how i play the game. I constantly am thinking about my strategy and what i want to do, but i also have to remember dice rolls and rules while thinking up my strategy. I usually mess up one of them and end up confusing my opponents. when it comes to dice rolls i will often forget how many hits I get (or usually something to do with numbers). I also play a pseudo foot guard army so my turns also take a long time. I have to go back and re roll alot and that makes my long turns even longer. Worse it can possibly seem like i am cheating =(.
my opponents are fine people, its just i make a bunch of mistakes when it comes to working memory.

Funny, if I had ADHD, we'd be the same exact people . And I play pseudo foot guard. Sometimes I even find myself trying to count how many dice I have in my hand like 2-3 times........thankfully I have the chessex blocks so using a little math helps. I feel your pain.
The first time I went to my local shop, I was terrified of looking bummy/nasty. Only once have I ever forgot deodera t, and I was flipping out inside. If I ever get to go back, I'd def take whatever said in this thread to consideration!

Develop a checklist on procedures to follow. Write it down if you have to. I have really bad short term memory and that helped a lot.

Good advice.

My son has ADHD so to have something "concrete" like a checklist to refer to really does help.
The summary in the back of the book like sequence of turns are also of some help in keeping track.

My kid is FAST so seeing someone on a mission like him can give the impression of "pulling a fast-one" with dice when he is just trying to "get'er dun".
The only trait that can be a bit troubling for my son is if you inform him of something he will say "I know" even when you are sure he did not until that moment.
It is like he hears what you say while filing away the information, checks to see it is there and then thinks "the information is there, so I knew that already", gives the appearance of a "know-it-all".
Is this a common thing? Not sure, but it does show that people can be wired a certain way and just needs a little tolerance.

GET OUT OF MY HEAD!

Anyway your son might also be an INTJ on the Myers Briggs like I am. people that are INTJ can appear very arrogant if they are not careful.

40k is a great way for me to interact with people and form relationships, it satisfies my need for strategic thinking, creativity, and challenges me in concentration and working memory.

so if your son is like me than 40k would be great for his development. As a 20 year old 40k is really helping me cope with the stress of college and help me learn better too.

Crimson Heretic wrote:
first, why do so many people complain about unpainted models? i have one, yes one model painted out of about 250 pieces of plastic..yes i understand it adds flavor to the game experience, well sorry i don't have hours of my day to spend painting away(you know work,real life stuff) i have a life outside of the game, which should not stop me from having a fun and refreshing experience with a fellow player via the outlet of a hobby.

This is absolute nonsense and degrades people who do choose to spend their time, which we all do have, by the way, to paint. One out of 250 models. What a joke. You can choose not to paint because a.) you suck at painting or b.) have no desire to get better at it, or both without claiming to have a busier or better life than those who do take pride in their models and their painting. You have time to build 250 models, and time to play games, then you have time to paint. Anybody who participates in this hobby after age 16 works and has real life stuff going on.

rigeld2 wrote:

 SHUPPET wrote:
Can anyone explain WHY people that play 40k often smell so bad? I don't encounter it anywhere else never with the frequency except from people I meet at a drug dealers house (I don't touch the things, but been pals with the guy for a long time - life takes us all different places). But still thats the only comparison. Why do so many 40k players have terrible hygiene? I would love to know the correlation

It's not just 40k. It happens with M:TG, D&D, Battletech...
The issue is that people like that are social pariahs. Our hobbies tend to attract people who are social pariahs. 1+1=2.

No. No way MtG at least. I played MTG for about 10 years, played in many different towns, and every weekend visited the biggest MtG weekly, in the second largest capital city of my country. I went to pre-releases, regionals, ive lived in 4 different areas during the period, and its not comparable. At bigger events there was definitely an odour, but hey that many men in one room sitting around all day, i feel like thats inevitable, but damn when i walk in the FLGS and see one guy inside, speaking to the owner (who is not an issue) about 40k, and the smell hits me so bad I gotta leave the goddamn shop its like wow this is on another level

 SHUPPET wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:

 SHUPPET wrote:
Can anyone explain WHY people that play 40k often smell so bad? I don't encounter it anywhere else never with the frequency except from people I meet at a drug dealers house (I don't touch the things, but been pals with the guy for a long time - life takes us all different places). But still thats the only comparison. Why do so many 40k players have terrible hygiene? I would love to know the correlation

It's not just 40k. It happens with M:TG, D&D, Battletech...
The issue is that people like that are social pariahs. Our hobbies tend to attract people who are social pariahs. 1+1=2.

No. No way MtG at least. I played MTG for about 10 years, played in many different towns, and every weekend visited the biggest MtG weekly, in the second largest capital city of my country. I went to pre-releases, regionals, ive lived in 4 different areas during the period, and its not comparable. At bigger events there was definitely an odour, but hey that many men in one room sitting around all day, i feel like thats inevitable, but damn when i walk in the FLGS and see one guy inside, speaking to the owner (who is not an issue) about 40k, and the smell hits me so bad I gotta leave the goddamn shop its like wow this is on another level

You should feel special. It's definitely that way here. I live in a college town and there's almost always at least one rancid dude every FNM. If it was the same one every time the store owner would kick him out, but as-is they get warned.

VanHallan wrote:

Crimson Heretic wrote:
first, why do so many people complain about unpainted models? i have one, yes one model painted out of about 250 pieces of plastic..yes i understand it adds flavor to the game experience, well sorry i don't have hours of my day to spend painting away(you know work,real life stuff) i have a life outside of the game, which should not stop me from having a fun and refreshing experience with a fellow player via the outlet of a hobby.

This is absolute nonsense and degrades people who do choose to spend their time, which we all do have, by the way, to paint. One out of 250 models. What a joke. You can choose not to paint because a.) you suck at painting or b.) have no desire to get better at it, or both without claiming to have a busier or better life than those who do take pride in their models and their painting. You have time to build 250 models, and time to play games, then you have time to paint. Anybody who participates in this hobby after age 16 works and has real life stuff going on.

While I agree with you 100%, this seems to be well tread ground on dakka over the past week (and in prior threads from a few months ago).

Prepare yourself for the inevitable wave of grey guilt fuelled comments and pms.

Really? hahahaha. it bothers you that much that people don't choose to paint 1 model out of 250? im gunna start leaving 1 model unpainted solely for this purpose, the amount of silliness directed towards someone trying to play strategy game is incredible lol

 SHUPPET wrote:
Really? hahahaha. it bothers you that much that people don't choose to paint 1 model out of 250? im gunna start leaving 1 model unpainted solely for this purpose, the amount of silliness directed towards someone trying to play strategy game is incredible lol

As I read it, it was 1 model painted and 249 unpainted.

 SHUPPET wrote:
Really? hahahaha. it bothers you that much that people don't choose to paint 1 model out of 250? im gunna start leaving 1 model unpainted solely for this purpose, the amount of silliness directed towards someone trying to play strategy game is incredible lol

The quoted post says that he has painted a single model out of 250.

"I have one, yes, one model painted out of 250 pieces of plastic."

golf clap for the paris hiltons of the GW hobby that have such a busy life they can't find time to paint.

SBG wrote:
Points over, and no list brought.

Drives me mental.

2000 point game? Sure! I'll spend 2 plus hours making a thematic, awesome list that relies on synergy, careful placement, an overarching tactical philosophy and also uses a large proportion of painted models to boot. It will be carefully thought out, and mindful of whether we're playing a casual or tournament practice game. This is going to be awesome.

I show up, and Ronald McDonald is late, with a mishmash of unpainted models (some might be on bases!) And has no list. But he'll quickly put one together - no worries! ''Hey, what army are you playing? Do you mind if I proxy this pile of blank bases as a variety of units that I don't own yet? I just started playing [FOTM].‘‘

Mind boggling.

I should make alts just to exalt this more.

VanHallan wrote:
"I have one, yes, one model painted out of 250 pieces of plastic."

golf clap for the paris hiltons of the GW hobby that have such a busy life they can't find time to paint.

Or don't want to. Because, you know, everyone must enjoy the exact same things you do.

See, but you're missing the point just so you can use the same tired argument that all of you non painters always use.

There are plenty of things in life that I don't enjoy. 90% of the reason is because I suck at them.

Do I have to be a good cook to enjoy eating? Nope. Do I have to be a good painter to play 40k? Nope.

But to say I "don't have time to cook" is nonsense. "I don't have time to paint." is nonsense.

No one who plays 40k, given that they have time to collect, assemble, and play games can possibly be in position to suggest that they don't "have time" to paint.

If they say they dont like to paint, that's fine. No argument. They must suck at painting. I suck at playing the piano. It doesn't mean people who had time to get good at piano have no life. They just *chose* to spend their time learning something that I didn't.

Personally I find the initial statement demeaning to people who spend time to actually get good at something so that the person who posted it can get a false sense of pride out of their sheer laziness to progress in one area of life. Maybe they wouldn't like painting, but it has NOTHING to do with being too busy to paint. That is just pure BS, so I'm calling him on it. If you don't like it, aww shucks.

VanHallan wrote:
See, but you're missing the point just so you can use the same tired argument that all of you non painters always use.

There are plenty of things in life that I don't enjoy. 90% of the reason is because I suck at them.

Do I have to be a good cook to enjoy eating? Nope. Do I have to be a good painter to play 40k? Nope.

But to say I "don't have time to cook" is nonsense. "I don't have time to paint." is nonsense.

No one who plays 40k, given that they have time to collect, assemble, and play games can possibly be in position to suggest that they don't "have time" to paint.

If they say they dont like to paint, that's fine. No argument. They must suck at painting. I suck at playing the piano. It doesn't mean people who had time to get good at piano have no life. They just *chose* to spend their time learning something that I didn't.

Personally I find the initial statement demeaning to people who spend time to actually get good at something so that the person who posted it can get a false sense of pride out of their sheer laziness to progress in one area of life. Maybe they wouldn't like painting, but it has NOTHING to do with being too busy to paint. That is just pure BS, so I'm calling him on it. If you don't like it, aww shucks.

Except it is that he's too busy. He's too busy to dedicate a significant amount of time to something he doesn't enjoy. He enjoys taking his wife and kids to dinner. He enjoys playing 40k. He enjoys sleeping in. He doesn't enjoy painting.
If he has time for 3 activities on a Saturday, which 3 are going to get picked? If you include the one he doesn't enjoy (and isn't required to do) you're fooling yourself. By that standard, he's too busy to paint.

Do you know him personally? His post states nothing of what you typed. Just says he doesn't have time to spend on painting. He does, as I pointed out and you are now acknowledging. He chooses not to, and chalks it up to having "a life" as if those who do paint don't. Its a joke.

Its kind of like the people that play golf and spend money on new gear and gizmos all the time but wont invest in lessons or practicing on a regular basis. You know, because they don't have time to do anything but suck at golf. Sorry to hear about that. Don't demean people who do put in the effort by saying you have a life, because that's just a bunch of thinnly veiled manure.

VanHallan wrote:
Do you know him personally? His post states nothing of what you typed. Just says he doesn't have time to spend on painting. He does, as I pointed out and you are now acknowledging. He chooses not to, and chalks it up to having "a life" as if those who do paint don't. Its a joke.

No - he personally doesn't. I'm sure that if he chose to, he could - but that's irrelevant. His statement is (very likely) true.

Its kind of like the people that play golf and spend money on new gear and gizmos all the time but wont invest in lessons or practicing on a regular basis. You know, because they don't have time to do anything but suck at golf. Sorry to hear about that. Don't demean people who do put in the effort by saying you have a life, because that's just a bunch of thinnly veiled manure.

Sure, he could have chosen a better phrase but the point came across fine to those that aren't overly sensitive.

Well, being that this thread is all about the most annoying things players do, I find this attitude to be most annoying. In life- not just as it relates to 40k. people who are just flat out lazy and justify it with nonsense. that annoys me.

VanHallan wrote:
Well, being that this thread is all about the most annoying things players do, I find this attitude to be most annoying. In life- not just as it relates to 40k. people who are just flat out lazy and justify it with nonsense. that annoys me.

So it's "flat out lazy" to not paint? I just want to understand your statement.

i don't care if he paints or not. I don't have to look at his piss poor effort. Its the attitude that is lazy. "I don't have time" for this or that is a lazy cover all excuse for not doing something that should be done. I'm sure a lot of fat people don't have time to exercise. You know what i mean yet?

VanHallan wrote:
i don't care if he paints or not. I don't have to look at his piss poor effort. Its the attitude that is lazy. "I don't have time" for this or that is a lazy cover all excuse for not doing something that should be done. I'm sure a lot of fat people don't have time to exercise. You know what i mean yet?

So anyone that "doesn't have time" for something is automatically lazy. Gotcha. Thanks for letting me know to put you on ignore. Have a great day!

VanHallan wrote:
i don't care if he paints or not. I don't have to look at his piss poor effort. Its the attitude that is lazy. "I don't have time" for this or that is a lazy cover all excuse for not doing something that should be done. I'm sure a lot of fat people don't have time to exercise. You know what i mean yet?

Why do you think painting models "should be done"?

Do you have a single line of objective reasoning to support the assertion that painting your models is a necessity rather than a hobbyist choice beyond your very personal and, ultimately irrelevant, beliefs?

Thanks for thinking I give a feth what you read.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 BlaxicanX wrote:

VanHallan wrote:
i don't care if he paints or not. I don't have to look at his piss poor effort. Its the attitude that is lazy. "I don't have time" for this or that is a lazy cover all excuse for not doing something that should be done. I'm sure a lot of fat people don't have time to exercise. You know what i mean yet?

Why do you think painting models "should be done"?

Do you have a single line of objective reasoning to support the assertion that painting your models is a necessity beyond your very personal and, ultimately irrelevant, beliefs?

You can read piles of pages on this subject. We don't agree. next.

Haha. Okay, so you don't.

Basically, you have an idea of what "real 40K" is, and you impose that idea on other players and look down on them for not conforming to it.

Why not just say that? It'd save you so much time arguing with people.

 BlaxicanX wrote:

VanHallan wrote:
i don't care if he paints or not. I don't have to look at his piss poor effort. Its the attitude that is lazy. "I don't have time" for this or that is a lazy cover all excuse for not doing something that should be done. I'm sure a lot of fat people don't have time to exercise. You know what i mean yet?

Why do you think painting models "should be done"?

Do you have a single line of objective reasoning to support the assertion that painting your models is a necessity rather than a hobbyist choice beyond your very personal and, ultimately irrelevant, beliefs?

I mean, they're sold as grey plastic from a company that also sells paints and every box says "models require painting and assembly."

Do you have to paint models to play the game? No. But the argument that models aren't meant to be painted is pretty thin. It definitely "should be done."

So what if they're solid as grey plastic? They're also sold with a price. Does that mean that you "should" take your 40K models and sell them to somebody because they've been assigned a dollar value? The game mentions "mysterious terrain", does that mean that if you don't use mysterious terrain in your games, you're not playing "real 40K"? What about if you're not using Citadel Woods?

Nonsense. You have no obligation or "ought to be" way to handle your models. You paid money for them, the only thing you "should" do with them is whatever the hell you like. That could be painting them, that could be melting them down and turning them into candle wax. It doesn't really matter.

I'm not interested in your point of view because I didn't ask for it. You asked for mine. My point of view is this. If you have to ask why I think models should be painted, and the FACT that every single model is pictured painted on the package, every single page of white dwarf is full of painted models, every single piece of marketing material on GW's hobby includes painted miniatures and that for god knows what reason doesn't connect the dots for you then I'm not interested in explaining it to you. I don't like playing with unpainted models.

I don't like playing against unpainted models. I'm not saying I don't like PEOPLE who don't paint their models. But if you're honestly going to make the argument that the models aren't SUPPOSED to be painted then make it to someone else. I don't care to read about it.

VanHallan wrote:
I'm not interested in your point of view because I didn't ask for it.

I don't care to read about it.

This is a public forum, so you can either ignore the posts or read them- either way, much like the preferences for painted models, your desires are irrelevant to everyone who isn't you.

My point of view is this. If you have to ask why I think models should be painted, and the FACT that every single model is pictured painted on the package, every single page of white dwarf is full of painted models, every single piece of marketing material on GW's hobby includes painted miniatures and that for god knows what reason doesn't connect the dots for you then I'm not interested in explaining it to you. I don't like playing with unpainted models.

I didn't ask whether or not you prefer to play against painted models, that you do is self-evident. What I asked is whether your condescension toward other players was based off of anything beyond your personal preferences for the game. Apparently it isn't, and that's perfectly fine man. You're totally entitled to hold others to your standards, but let's just call it what it is. They really are nothing more than your standards. There is no universal "ought-to-be" for being a proper 40K hobbyist that players are committing sacrilege against by not painting their models.

VanHallan wrote:
See, but you're missing the point just so you can use the same tired argument that all of you non painters always use.

There are plenty of things in life that I don't enjoy. 90% of the reason is because I suck at them.

Do I have to be a good cook to enjoy eating? Nope. Do I have to be a good painter to play 40k? Nope.

But to say I "don't have time to cook" is nonsense. "I don't have time to paint." is nonsense.

No one who plays 40k, given that they have time to collect, assemble, and play games can possibly be in position to suggest that they don't "have time" to paint.

If they say they dont like to paint, that's fine. No argument. They must suck at painting. I suck at playing the piano. It doesn't mean people who had time to get good at piano have no life. They just *chose* to spend their time learning something that I didn't.

Personally I find the initial statement demeaning to people who spend time to actually get good at something so that the person who posted it can get a false sense of pride out of their sheer laziness to progress in one area of life. Maybe they wouldn't like painting, but it has NOTHING to do with being too busy to paint. That is just pure BS, so I'm calling him on it. If you don't like it, aww shucks.

I think some of your other responders are misunderstanding what you're saying, but I totally get it. When people clearly have time for something and just say "don't have time," it comes across as derogatory towards those who did make time for it. Like "my life is busier and more important than yours." Seriously, everyone has at least an hour or two laying around in their typical day. You don't have to spend the whole chunk painting, but you could just basecoat a model in like 5 minutes, and then enjoy your other 1:55.

Instead of lying, they could just say "I'm a terrible painter, and wouldn't be happy with my own work," or something similar.

I never believe anyone who says "I don't have time" unless they show me their 3.5 full time high-activity jobs that they have simultaneously. I just assume their lies are actually code for "I hung out too late then slept in today."

I understand the painting issue. It's actually kind of hard to make yourself sit down and go on a painting spree. What I've done is spend a few minutes prepping things in my paint area at home, like getting the models out and such. Get home from work, either basecoat or paint one detail on like 3 similar models in 5 minutes, toss my paint water and do it again the next night.

You're right I was being an donkey-cave. Sorry. Was on an extremely frustrating phone call between posts there. Not a good excuse for being a jerk. I'm equally guilty of being lazy when it comes to learning the game. I don't mean to insult anybody who doesn't paint, I just think the excuse of not having time is weak. I have time to read the rules, I just dont because I know they mean little to me until I can actually perform the functions. I dont know if that makes sense or not, but I mean to say I know what its like to be looked down on in this hobby, and its no ones fault but mine in that regard.

I have a really hard time learning a game by reading a rule book, and I have to play games to figure it out. At the very least, I try to bring painted models to the table so I can at least look good while getting tabled. Its just one of those things


Automatically Appended Next Post:

VanHallan wrote:
You're right I was being an donkey-cave. Sorry. Was on an extremely frustrating phone call between posts there. Not a good excuse for being a jerk. I'm equally guilty of being lazy when it comes to learning the game. I don't mean to insult anybody who doesn't paint, I just think the excuse of not having time is weak. I have time to read the rules, I just dont because I know they mean little to me until I can actually perform the functions. I dont know if that makes sense or not, but I mean to say I know what its like to be looked down on in this hobby, and its no ones fault but mine in that regard.

I have a really hard time learning a game by reading a rule book, and I have to play games to figure it out. At the very least, I try to bring painted models to the table so I can at least look good while getting tabled. Its just one of those things

Yes this is what I was trying to say. Thanks.

niv-mizzet wrote:

VanHallan wrote:
See, but you're missing the point just so you can use the same tired argument that all of you non painters always use.

There are plenty of things in life that I don't enjoy. 90% of the reason is because I suck at them.

Do I have to be a good cook to enjoy eating? Nope. Do I have to be a good painter to play 40k? Nope.

But to say I "don't have time to cook" is nonsense. "I don't have time to paint." is nonsense.

No one who plays 40k, given that they have time to collect, assemble, and play games can possibly be in position to suggest that they don't "have time" to paint.

If they say they dont like to paint, that's fine. No argument. They must suck at painting. I suck at playing the piano. It doesn't mean people who had time to get good at piano have no life. They just *chose* to spend their time learning something that I didn't.

Personally I find the initial statement demeaning to people who spend time to actually get good at something so that the person who posted it can get a false sense of pride out of their sheer laziness to progress in one area of life. Maybe they wouldn't like painting, but it has NOTHING to do with being too busy to paint. That is just pure BS, so I'm calling him on it. If you don't like it, aww shucks.

I think some of your other responders are misunderstanding what you're saying, but I totally get it. When people clearly have time for something and just say "don't have time," it comes across as derogatory towards those who did make time for it. Like "my life is busier and more important than yours." Seriously, everyone has at least an hour or two laying around in their typical day. You don't have to spend the whole chunk painting, but you could just basecoat a model in like 5 minutes, and then enjoy your other 1:55.

Instead of lying, they could just say "I'm a terrible painter, and wouldn't be happy with my own work," or something similar.

I never believe anyone who says "I don't have time" unless they show me their 3.5 full time high-activity jobs that they have simultaneously. I just assume their lies are actually code for "I hung out too late then slept in today."

I understand the painting issue. It's actually kind of hard to make yourself sit down and go on a painting spree. What I've done is spend a few minutes prepping things in my paint area at home, like getting the models out and such. Get home from work, either basecoat or paint one detail on like 3 similar models in 5 minutes, toss my paint water and do it again the next night.

But they're not lying. It takes me ~20 minutes to set up my paint area and an equal amount of time to take it down. I can't leave it set up - I have a dog, a toddler, and soon a newborn that would wreak havoc with it because of where it has to be in the home. I don't get any satisfaction out of setup and takedown so there's no such thing as a "5 minute basecoat" - it's the better part of an hour at best.
There are dozens of things I'd rather be doing than painting - like spending time with my family. Why is it that all my time must be occupied with a "high activity job" for it to be a valid "time sink"? Family time isn't valid? Relaxation isn't valid? Other hobbies aren't valid? Sleep isn't valid?

Sorry, I won't apologize for saying "I didn't have time to change my oil." when I spent the entire day at my grandfather's 90th birthday party. According to you, that's a lie.

You won't read this, but what you're talking about is priorities. I was talking about time.

VanHallan wrote:
You won't read this, but what you're talking about is priorities. I was talking about time.

And if after dealing with things that are higher priority, I don't have time to paint?

Then you would say painting isn't a priority for me. Not that you don't have time. Saying you don't have time to paint means that given enough time, you would paint. These people would not paint regardless of how much time it took. They don't like it, they don't want to get good at it, and they for some reason think the game is enough fun to justify spending money on, but time? not so much. I'd much rather spend more time on something than money.

And so we're back at the golf analogy. What kind of golfer do you want to play with? The one that spends 2k every couple years on new clubs, or the one that spends a few hundred every month on lessons to get better at the game?

Not saying there is a right or wrong answer to it but if your goal is to just go out drink beers and whack a ball around for the hell of it, stay way from the guy taking the game(hobby) seriously and go show off with the guy with new flashy clubs every so often.

The golf course is big enough for the both of us, i think.

One of the "don't have time to paint" guys that I know has no job, no relationship, no school, and spends a lot of time on an MMO. When he looks someone in the eyes and says he "doesn't have time," I feel like he needs to be slapped.
But as I said earlier, if he just said "I don't want to ruin my army with my own poor painting," I'd be more understanding.

The time someone spends working up the money to buy and assemble the models is quite significant. The time it takes to work up the money to buy expensive brushes and paints, and learn how to use and apply them might be pushing the limit of the time they can realistically dedicate to the game. Oh the horror they play a different game with their spare time as well?! And an MMO at that?!? Chill, It's called prioritising and juggling two (or more) leisure activities, painting up army mens is a long time consuming process that is zero fun for certain people, but even if it was probably wouldn't get done for them as it's a non-required part of playing 40k - the game works without it, and they've already dedicated a LOT of time and money just to get to the point they are at WIH 40k.

On he other hand, it does feel sometimes a bit like, well why stop there? This is a thematic game with poor rules, built largely off the lore which your ugly collection of models with any number of rainbow colours and I painted units do a great job of ruining both in feel and immersion, and seeing as you have already payed all that money to be just a part of it, why not finish up what you've started for every bodies benefit? Yes it is much more pleasing to play against a fully painted army. I'm a person who will not put a model on the table unless it's 95% finished. The 5% being if I have temporarily run out of basing materials I will allow myself to put it on the table till i do. The mix match of colours half of which are grey, irritates me no end so I can see where the complaints stem from. But I'm also not so self absorbed that I can't take a second to wonder why people do it. Yes, the whole "don't have time to paint it" is an excuse, whether true or not, I see people having to use it defensively because over-aggressive dicks can't grasp the concept that 40k is not a full time hobby for some, who are indeed juggling many other things and do not necessarily wish to spend their leisure time painting up 2000 points of warhammer that they might just play once or twice a fortnight.

Players who only look at one end of the measuring tape. yes the end is past your target, but the other end is now nowhere near your unit so youre actually out of range you muppet.

The number of times ive had to hold the tape measure still so they cant pull this crap is insane.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 gwarsh41 wrote:
I really dislike a lot of little things.

When people move an extra 1/4th inch because they moved the tape measure as well (usually on accident, but I feel like an ass pointing it out)

When people can't seem to tell which direction the scatter dice points.

When people nickle and dime movement. Move 6, then re-arrange a few times to get another inch.

When people dont measure weapons from the base, or the proper weapon.

People who snatch up dice too fast, or roll too far for the other player to see.

People who bitch and moan about my armies lore.


Those were all from the same opponent too.

OMG the scatter dice thing. so many people just cannot draw a straight line. or position a blast template correctly.

when people don't know their rules.
It is ok to look something up. But if you field a freakin' flyer I expect you to know what "gliding", "zooming", "hovering" and all that stuff is.
Also going to look up the profile on every weapon in every shooting phase... Seriously.
If you show up to a gaming night, have the decency to READ the rules at least ONCE so you do not play lookuphammer 40k.

Ok, painting people.

STOP FETHING ARGUING

Different people have different ideas and we all have a right to proclaim them

But arguing about slapping paint on a model is just

ITS FREAKING TOY SOLDIERS FOR CHRISTSAKE!!!

VanHallan wrote:
See, but you're missing the point just so you can use the same tired argument that all of you non painters always use.

There are plenty of things in life that I don't enjoy. 90% of the reason is because I suck at them.

Do I have to be a good cook to enjoy eating? Nope. Do I have to be a good painter to play 40k? Nope.

But to say I "don't have time to cook" is nonsense. "I don't have time to paint." is nonsense.

No one who plays 40k, given that they have time to collect, assemble, and play games can possibly be in position to suggest that they don't "have time" to paint.

If they say they dont like to paint, that's fine. No argument. They must suck at painting. I suck at playing the piano. It doesn't mean people who had time to get good at piano have no life. They just *chose* to spend their time learning something that I didn't.

Personally I find the initial statement demeaning to people who spend time to actually get good at something so that the person who posted it can get a false sense of pride out of their sheer laziness to progress in one area of life. Maybe they wouldn't like painting, but it has NOTHING to do with being too busy to paint. That is just pure BS, so I'm calling him on it. If you don't like it, aww shucks.

It wasen't engineered to thrash people who do sit and paint, part of the way i worded it was fueled by the few threads where people refuse to play against an unpainted army or think its the worst thing ever next to hitler. I do enjoy seeing the nicely painted armies on here but actually i do not have alot of time to commit to painting, i work third shift 50 hour weeks so my free time is generally settles on sleep and general household maintance...when i occasionally have no prior plans for my free time i'll squeeze a few games in with friends. The large majority of my figs were pre assembled before i bought them( cheaper then new boxed stuff) .

One thing that really irks me is those players who get offended when you challenge their notion of the rules...sure, there are plenty of times when I look up a rule to question someone and find that they are indeed correct. But there's also plenty of times when I look into a rule and find that they have it wrong, as an honest mistake.

We all make mistakes to some degree or another when playing the game. Rules change. Memory and reading comprehension skills are always imperfect. Way I see it, you shouldn't be offended when someone suggests you might be misinterpreting/forgetting a rule. I think the best way to have a game that sticks to the rules is having both players routinely check the other.

My main peeve is an opponent who either walks away from the table a bunch or just acts disinterested and bored. We are playing a game, which we both agreed to, please at least have the decency to show me enough respect by playing that game rather than walking off all the time. Also cell phones, it's ok if you check it and use it a little, but if you're on the bloody thing the whole time them why are you playing to begin with?

my only issue with the "dont have time crowd" is this: sit out from 1 or 2 games, paint your models to bare basic, basecoat and color the gun, with 40k, you could go through 20 models in an hour and make the game way more enjoyable for everyone. if you hate painting dont, but find a better excuse then "dont have time" please.

 Brennonjw wrote:
my only issue with the "dont have time crowd" is this: sit out from 1 or 2 games, paint your models to bare basic, basecoat and color the gun, with 40k, you could go through 20 models in an hour and make the game way more enjoyable for everyone. if you hate painting dont, but find a better excuse then "dont have time" please.

Some people enjoy playing more than painting. Who cares?

Problem with this painting nonsense is that most of the people who do look down on those who don't paint are going to do so anyway, regardless of the reason you give them.

I have nerve damage in my dominant arm and cannot hold a brush steady. I've been called lazy on this forum for it. So I don't have a lot of respect to the "eh stop being lazy or get a better reason" crowd because, in my experience, it is not about painting. It is about massaging their self-importance and priorities over others.

 curran12 wrote:
Problem with this painting nonsense is that most of the people who do look down on those who don't paint are going to do so anyway, regardless of the reason you give them.
I have nerve damage in my dominant arm and cannot hold a brush steady. I've been called lazy on this forum for it. So I don't have a lot of respect to the "eh stop being lazy or get a better reason" crowd because, in my experience, it is not about painting. It is about massaging their self-importance and priorities over others.

Everyone has different motivations.
I would strongly encourage painting for others because I have personally been very happy/grateful of the positive comments from those I played about my painted models.
A few people I play against must spend FOREVER painting their stuff, I have to ask to pick up some of the models because is hurts my eyes and hands in sympathy of the work put in.
FREAKING AWESOME to see these in the "common" gaming crowd.

One thing I have found that is consistent: anyone I have met that is a true master at something like painting do not look down on anyone: they love what they do, there is no room for disdain in their heart for others (at least on that topic).
There are show-offs, but you can see it is more work for them because they strive for praise more than anything else.

You know what one of the most annoying things some players do is; constantly bitch and moan about the state of the game, how bad the rules are, how messed up GW is, etc..Just zip it and play the game or move on to something else that does not bring up so many negative feelings for you.

One game I played in recently we actually handed out point deductions for negative comments made while playing. It was nice to not have those kinds of comments going on during a game.

 jreilly89 wrote:

 Brennonjw wrote:
my only issue with the "dont have time crowd" is this: sit out from 1 or 2 games, paint your models to bare basic, basecoat and color the gun, with 40k, you could go through 20 models in an hour and make the game way more enjoyable for everyone. if you hate painting dont, but find a better excuse then "dont have time" please.

Some people enjoy playing more than painting. Who cares?

I do care. I spent a lot of time and effort on my armies so that they'll look nice on the table, and I don't really enjoy seeing them fight a blob of grey plastic. This is not meant as an insult to people who don't enjoy painting, it's just a statement of fact: grey plastic is ugly.

Watching nicely painted miniatures on the tabletop is part of the enjoyment I get from this hobby. If I only cared about the game, the rules and pure strategic elements, I'd play chess instead - it's got perfect balance, zero randomness and zero unnecessary fluff elements getting in the way. And you don't have to waste valuable time painting your pieces.

But Warhammer is a game about miniatures, i.e. small pieces of art that's designed to be painted. They simply look a lot better when they're painted, and thus painted armies add enjoyment to the game while unpainted armies detract enjoyment from it. Also, priming and basecoating an army (which is usually enough to make it look more appealing) isn't really that time consuming. It doesn't even require any serious skill, but it will make the game a lot more enjoyable for everyone involved.

Claiming you don't have time for it is ridiculous - if you're years into this hobby and play every week, you can find the time to spray your models and use one of the commonly used techniques for speedpainting that are easily learned through youtube. Now if you say you don't want to, fine - just don't expect people who actually painted their models to enjoy playing against your blob of grey.

Cheaters and cheese lists.

I've made a thread about having a bit of a miserable time of late, but that's minor compared to the massive irritation I've had to deal with since unbound armies were a thing.

Necron player (ofc) asks for a 750pts game, I say sure. I field a selection of troops, elites, vehicles and the like. He fields... seven models. Total. I have no idea what they're called, a big ass walker that I was only able to kill because I got lucky with a chainfist (15 armour all around, wat), about five elite troops of some sort and two HQ's.

They could teleport across the board like deep striking, only they didn't have to roll scatter. Were near invincible in CC and via shooting, and made my own wolf lord slaughter his own squad.

Absolute piss-take. I can normally stand losing if I felt like I had a chance, but when six models bounce all overt he board slaughtering everything I have by themselves I get irritated.

Thankfully another guy was watching, he nudged me and muttered "watch this" and got out a Wraithknight and Imperial knight. 750pts, it checked out. he tabled the Nec player in a single turn and whipped the cheese-eating grin off his face. I was still packing away my stuff!

Similarly, a guy was friendly enough to lend me an ork army to try out Fantasy against a Dwarf player. I lost, badly. Namely because he had cannons and I didn't. At the time I chalked it up to it being my first match, but I spotted frowns on nearly everyone's faces (Except the dwarf player as he killed the last ork). Someone picked up the new dwarf rulebook and like a wizard totalled up his points, he turned and said in a very clear, loud voice "You realise you have five -hundred- more points than him?" Silence... followed by "That cannon alone is almost half that, plus <elite dwarf unit of some kind> plus <extra rank of dwarf soldiers>". The guy tried to excuse himself by claiming he hadn't "read that far" in the new dwarf book yet. Everyone just gaped at him, and sadly my first go at fanstasy was soured (At the time I figured in fantasy I'd enjoy it more as I could get in melee without being blown to bits at range. A wood Elf game later proved this wrong.)

I find myself guilty of one thing in this list (in 5th, when it was fast to make a list): I would show up, someone would ask for a game, I'd ask point size, and build a list in 5-10 mins, usually a mild variant on a list I always ran (never tailored, just wanted to try something new). So somebody would have to wait 5-10 mins for a game, then they'd tease me how daemons weren't competitive in early 5th, I'd smoke em, and they'd be incredulous. I'm sorry...I know how to run a codex everyone underestimated. You were saying? I don't have a dog in this race though, haven't touched 7th with my own models, let alone a friend's.

Always shower, regular clothes, rolled dice and always let my opponent inspec them before removing them. I was the ideal player, except the 5-10 min wait. My armies were never fully unpainted, they were always constantly being continued and work always showed progress.

Ranor wrote:

Necron player (ofc) asks for a 750pts game, I say sure. I field a selection of troops, elites, vehicles and the like. He fields... seven models. Total. I have no idea what they're called, a big ass walker that I was only able to kill because I got lucky with a chainfist (15 armour all around, wat), about five elite troops of some sort and two HQ's.

They could teleport across the board like deep striking, only they didn't have to roll scatter. Were near invincible in CC and via shooting, and made my own wolf lord slaughter his own squad.

Tell him to use an existing codex instead of models he made up next time. Except for the mind-shackle scarabs (your guy beating himself to death), those things don't actually exist.

 DarknessEternal wrote:

Ranor wrote:

Necron player (ofc) asks for a 750pts game, I say sure. I field a selection of troops, elites, vehicles and the like. He fields... seven models. Total. I have no idea what they're called, a big ass walker that I was only able to kill because I got lucky with a chainfist (15 armour all around, wat), about five elite troops of some sort and two HQ's.

They could teleport across the board like deep striking, only they didn't have to roll scatter. Were near invincible in CC and via shooting, and made my own wolf lord slaughter his own squad.

Tell him to use an existing codex instead of models he made up next time. Except for the mind-shackle scarabs (your guy beating himself to death), those things don't actually exist.

5 Lychguard with Hyperphase Swords and Dispersion Shields (220 points)
1 Cryptek with Veil of Darkness (60 points)
1 Necron Overlord with Mindshackle Scarabs, plus possible other upgrades (105 points minimum)
1 Triarch Stalker with possible upgrades (150 points minimum)

535 points base.

Of course, this doesn't mean your opponent wasn't cheating.

Ranor wrote:
Cheaters and cheese lists.

I've made a thread about having a bit of a miserable time of late, but that's minor compared to the massive irritation I've had to deal with since unbound armies were a thing.

Necron player (ofc) asks for a 750pts game, I say sure. I field a selection of troops, elites, vehicles and the like. He fields... seven models. Total. I have no idea what they're called, a big ass walker that I was only able to kill because I got lucky with a chainfist (15 armour all around, wat), about five elite troops of some sort and two HQ's.

They could teleport across the board like deep striking, only they didn't have to roll scatter. Were near invincible in CC and via shooting, and made my own wolf lord slaughter his own squad.

Absolute piss-take. I can normally stand losing if I felt like I had a chance, but when six models bounce all overt he board slaughtering everything I have by themselves I get irritated.

Thankfully another guy was watching, he nudged me and muttered "watch this" and got out a Wraithknight and Imperial knight. 750pts, it checked out. he tabled the Nec player in a single turn and whipped the cheese-eating grin off his face. I was still packing away my stuff!

For Starters The only necron walker is a triark stalker. and its AV13 front and side not 15. its still strong but not 15. (also if you pen it it gets droped down to av 11 IIRC)
There was probably a veil tek in there but he should be scattering (unless i missed a FAQ)
Did he charge you after scattering? if so thats a no go.

Honestly #1 thing. if something seems really REALLY strange or seems off ask to see his book and read it. there should be no excuses from them.

you should learn your enemies and know whats up

 Happyjew wrote:

 DarknessEternal wrote:

Ranor wrote:

Necron player (ofc) asks for a 750pts game, I say sure. I field a selection of troops, elites, vehicles and the like. He fields... seven models. Total. I have no idea what they're called, a big ass walker that I was only able to kill because I got lucky with a chainfist (15 armour all around, wat), about five elite troops of some sort and two HQ's.

They could teleport across the board like deep striking, only they didn't have to roll scatter. Were near invincible in CC and via shooting, and made my own wolf lord slaughter his own squad.

Tell him to use an existing codex instead of models he made up next time. Except for the mind-shackle scarabs (your guy beating himself to death), those things don't actually exist.

5 Lychguard with Hyperphase Swords and Dispersion Shields (220 points)
1 Cryptek with Veil of Darkness (60 points)
1 Necron Overlord with Mindshackle Scarabs, plus possible other upgrades (105 points minimum)
1 Triarch Stalker with possible upgrades (150 points minimum)

535 points base.

Of course, this doesn't mean your opponent wasn't cheating.

yes, and none of those things do what was described.

- As others have said, people who can't tell where the scatter die is pointing.
I probably am going to paint a straight line in the middle of the arrows. Such shenanigans.

- People who don't know their own codex's rules. If you field it, you need to know how it works.
BRB rules are slightly excusable, since they are labyrinthine. I still find stuff I never knew (Basilisks can shoot inside minimum range via Barrage).

- Being called a Rules Lawyer after correcting someone playing their codex rule wrong.
Guy tried to switch his Special Issue Ammunition for Overwatch with Sternguard Veterans. I asked if he had to use the same ammo from his shooting phase. He said he wasn't sure. I look it up and see that he does have to. To my face, "Rules Lawyer" *shakes his head*.

- Opponents who utter crap under their breath (barely).
"Pansy Eldar." I couldn't believe it! I make a few 5++ saves and he gets pissy! I won that game with 2 models left on the board and he still sulked.

- When your opponent "fails to mention" he is rolling dice.
I thought I had shot a troop unit off an objective, so my unit moves away to attack another. Turns out he had one Marine left (hidden well behind a hill, tourney tables were packed so I couldn't get around to his side), who "passed" an unannounced Morale check that turn. Cost me the game by 1 VP.

niv-mizzet wrote:

VanHallan wrote:
See, but you're missing the point just so you can use the same tired argument that all of you non painters always use.

There are plenty of things in life that I don't enjoy. 90% of the reason is because I suck at them.

Do I have to be a good cook to enjoy eating? Nope. Do I have to be a good painter to play 40k? Nope.

But to say I "don't have time to cook" is nonsense. "I don't have time to paint." is nonsense.

No one who plays 40k, given that they have time to collect, assemble, and play games can possibly be in position to suggest that they don't "have time" to paint.

If they say they dont like to paint, that's fine. No argument. They must suck at painting. I suck at playing the piano. It doesn't mean people who had time to get good at piano have no life. They just *chose* to spend their time learning something that I didn't.

Personally I find the initial statement demeaning to people who spend time to actually get good at something so that the person who posted it can get a false sense of pride out of their sheer laziness to progress in one area of life. Maybe they wouldn't like painting, but it has NOTHING to do with being too busy to paint. That is just pure BS, so I'm calling him on it. If you don't like it, aww shucks.

I think some of your other responders are misunderstanding what you're saying, but I totally get it. When people clearly have time for something and just say "don't have time," it comes across as derogatory towards those who did make time for it. Like "my life is busier and more important than yours." Seriously, everyone has at least an hour or two laying around in their typical day. You don't have to spend the whole chunk painting, but you could just basecoat a model in like 5 minutes, and then enjoy your other 1:55.

Instead of lying, they could just say "I'm a terrible painter, and wouldn't be happy with my own work," or something similar.

I never believe anyone who says "I don't have time" unless they show me their 3.5 full time high-activity jobs that they have simultaneously. I just assume their lies are actually code for "I hung out too late then slept in today."

I understand the painting issue. It's actually kind of hard to make yourself sit down and go on a painting spree. What I've done is spend a few minutes prepping things in my paint area at home, like getting the models out and such. Get home from work, either basecoat or paint one detail on like 3 similar models in 5 minutes, toss my paint water and do it again the next night.

but even if they have no job and chose to spend their time playing video games instead, its still what their priorities re that decide what should be done.
if they have 8 hours to a day, and they decide to glue thier models together and use all the time they can playing a game (of 40k) or reading fluff or admiring panting (because iorny) then they dont have the time, because their priorities are getting the models together for a game of strategy and daring, not painting models.

granted i love painting models, and i love playing my fully painted army against my best buds mostly (and yes i would prefere fully just for the awesome aesthetics) but i will be starting some SM soon and i wont be painting them for a long while due to lack of time. i am not doing it wrong because of this. i am busy and have a life (not really) and someone who wastes 10 hours painting a single arm one one basic troop has a life too. his life is made by his (insert *her* for the mythical fembot gaming girl) own choices.

and if you want proof of my fully slotted schedule you can ask any marine or sailor who went through "A" school. we have zero time to ourselves (literally, the government owns it all)

and even before that, i worked and free time was for other family activities. so i had no time (or life)

 Farseer Pef wrote:
- As others have said, people who can't tell where the scatter die is pointing.
I probably am going to paint a straight line in the middle of the arrows. Such shenanigans.

- People who don't know their own codex's rules. If you field it, you need to know how it works.
BRB rules are slightly excusable, since they are labyrinthine. I still find stuff I never knew (Basilisks can shoot inside minimum range via Barrage).

- Being called a Rules Lawyer after correcting someone playing their codex rule wrong.
Guy tried to switch his Special Issue Ammunition for Overwatch with Sternguard Veterans. I asked if he had to use the same ammo from his shooting phase. He said he wasn't sure. I look it up and see that he does have to. To my face, "Rules Lawyer" *shakes his head*.

- Opponents who utter crap under their breath (barely).
"Pansy Eldar." I couldn't believe it! I make a few 5++ saves and he gets pissy! I won that game with 2 models left on the board and he still sulked.

- When your opponent "fails to mention" he is rolling dice.
I thought I had shot a troop unit off an objective, so my unit moves away to attack another. Turns out he had one Marine left (hidden well behind a hill, tourney tables were packed so I couldn't get around to his side), who "passed" an unannounced Morale check that turn. Cost me the game by 1 VP.

Yeah, it's annoying when people only want to use some rules and not others - and get irritated when you want to use 'all' the rules. Either play the game by all the rules or don't - but don't think that your opponent is being unfair when they want to check a rule.

 Acephale wrote:

 jreilly89 wrote:

 Brennonjw wrote:
my only issue with the "dont have time crowd" is this: sit out from 1 or 2 games, paint your models to bare basic, basecoat and color the gun, with 40k, you could go through 20 models in an hour and make the game way more enjoyable for everyone. if you hate painting dont, but find a better excuse then "dont have time" please.

Some people enjoy playing more than painting. Who cares?

I do care. I spent a lot of time and effort on my armies so that they'll look nice on the table, and I don't really enjoy seeing them fight a blob of grey plastic. This is not meant as an insult to people who don't enjoy painting, it's just a statement of fact: grey plastic is ugly.

Watching nicely painted miniatures on the tabletop is part of the enjoyment I get from this hobby. If I only cared about the game, the rules and pure strategic elements, I'd play chess instead - it's got perfect balance, zero randomness and zero unnecessary fluff elements getting in the way. And you don't have to waste valuable time painting your pieces.

But Warhammer is a game about miniatures, i.e. small pieces of art that's designed to be painted. They simply look a lot better when they're painted, and thus painted armies add enjoyment to the game while unpainted armies detract enjoyment from it. Also, priming and basecoating an army (which is usually enough to make it look more appealing) isn't really that time consuming. It doesn't even require any serious skill, but it will make the game a lot more enjoyable for everyone involved.

Claiming you don't have time for it is ridiculous - if you're years into this hobby and play every week, you can find the time to spray your models and use one of the commonly used techniques for speedpainting that are easily learned through youtube. Now if you say you don't want to, fine - just don't expect people who actually painted their models to enjoy playing against your blob of grey.

Some people legitimately don't have time. Besides, some people don't like to paint. If you don't want to fight someone's grey army, that's fine. I absolutely agree, I would rather watch two painted armies duke it out than a grey slaughter. But I don't get why there is some elitist attitude painters have towards non-painters

 jreilly89 wrote:


Some people legitimately don't have time. Besides, some people don't like to paint. If you don't want to fight someone's grey army, that's fine. I absolutely agree, I would rather watch two painted armies duke it out than a grey slaughter. But I don't get why there is some elitist attitude painters have towards non-painters

I suppose it has to do with pride.

If I spent countless hours and incredible effort on something, naturally I'm going to take pride in it. If I've become a good painter through a long and slow learning process and painted my armies to a high standard, it will come as no surprise that I'll consider my armies aesthetically superior to an army of unpainted models.

If that's "elitist", so be it. It's a fact of life that some people are better than others at certain things. I'm a mediocre guitarist at best, but I wouldn't dream of calling my mate (who is a great guitarist by any standard) an elitist because he doesn't pretend that we're on the same level. He is simply better than me at playing the guitar - partly because he's more talented and partly because he's spent countless hours practising and playing.

On the other hand, I'm a better drummer than him and none of us pretend otherwise either. Now if someone who bought a bass guitar but can't play it at all showed up at a gig and demanded to play with us we'd naturally refuse - the result would be inferior and mostly embarrassing to listen to. Is that elitist? Perhaps, but both the band and the audience prefer it that way. And the guy with the bass guitar could just start practising and get better, instead of expecting the world to lower itself to his standards.

Now if he hates practising and prefer watching TV instead while the bass guitar ends up in the closet, fine. But then he cant' really count on being treated like he's in a band - owning an instrument doesn't make you a musician.

 DarknessEternal wrote:

 Happyjew wrote:

 DarknessEternal wrote:

Ranor wrote:

Necron player (ofc) asks for a 750pts game, I say sure. I field a selection of troops, elites, vehicles and the like. He fields... seven models. Total. I have no idea what they're called, a big ass walker that I was only able to kill because I got lucky with a chainfist (15 armour all around, wat), about five elite troops of some sort and two HQ's.

They could teleport across the board like deep striking, only they didn't have to roll scatter. Were near invincible in CC and via shooting, and made my own wolf lord slaughter his own squad.

Tell him to use an existing codex instead of models he made up next time. Except for the mind-shackle scarabs (your guy beating himself to death), those things don't actually exist.

5 Lychguard with Hyperphase Swords and Dispersion Shields (220 points)
1 Cryptek with Veil of Darkness (60 points)
1 Necron Overlord with Mindshackle Scarabs, plus possible other upgrades (105 points minimum)
1 Triarch Stalker with possible upgrades (150 points minimum)

535 points base.

Of course, this doesn't mean your opponent wasn't cheating.

yes, and none of those things do what was described.

Indeed - armour 15 only exists rarely in the game, and not on any walker I am aware of (and definitely not all round!) and the veiltek can DS, but you MUST roll scatter.

And, that's 8 models, so he had combined rules for 2 of them into one model somewhere

 SHUPPET wrote:
And, that's 8 models, so he had combined rules for 2 of them into one model somewhere

Going to guess it was the Veiltek and Lord.

Verviedi wrote:

 SHUPPET wrote:
And, that's 8 models, so he had combined rules for 2 of them into one model somewhere

Going to guess it was the Veiltek and Lord.

I need to read the Necron codex at some point. Still, my FLGS has a running joke now of me threatening to bring a George Foreman grill and a loaf of bread into the shop. "Anyone got a Necron codex I can borrow? I fancy a cheese toastie"

All we can tell you is, they absolutely, definitely cheated. They CANNOT avoid scattering on DS, and they CANNOT get a walker with Av15 all round. their only codex walker is AV13/13/11 until pen'd, then it goes to AV11/11/11

Verviedi wrote:

 SHUPPET wrote:
And, that's 8 models, so he had combined rules for 2 of them into one model somewhere

Going to guess it was the Veiltek and Lord.

Ranor wrote:

He fields... seven models. Total. I have no idea what they're called, a big ass walker that I was only able to kill because I got lucky with a chainfist (15 armour all around, wat),

This I'm assuming is the Triarch, and yes I realize the opponent lied about being AV 15 around.

about five elite troops of some sort

5 Lychguard (we'll get back to this in a moment)

and two HQ's.

Overlord and Cryptek.

They could teleport across the board like deep striking,

Tells us the Cryptek was a Veiltek.

only they didn't have to roll scatter.

Cheating, obviously.

Were near invincible in CC and via shooting,

Lychguard with Dispersion Shield have a 3+/4++. Overlord more than likely had a 2+/3+.

and made my own wolf lord slaughter his own squad.

And of course, MSS.

You sir, are quite the detective

Anytime people are eating finger foods nearby, just gets everywhere and ugh.

 Acephale wrote:
I suppose it has to do with pride.

If I spent countless hours and incredible effort on something, naturally I'm going to take pride in it. If I've become a good painter through a long and slow learning process and painted my armies to a high standard, it will come as no surprise that I'll consider my armies aesthetically superior to an army of unpainted models.

Then be proud. Seriously. Awesome paint jobs are awesome.
But saying it's "sheer laziness" to not paint is factually incorrect. And that's what is being advocated more and more. I can't tell you that you need to paint less just like you can't tell me that I need to paint more.

We enjoy doing different things. You're not required to play against my poorly painted minis. No one is forcing you to enjoy your hobby differently, so why should I be expected/forced to enjoy my hobby time differently?

 Acephale wrote:



If that's "elitist", so be it. It's a fact of life that some people are better than others at certain things. I'm a mediocre guitarist at best, but I wouldn't dream of calling my mate (who is a great guitarist by any standard) an elitist because he doesn't pretend that we're on the same level. He is simply better than me at playing the guitar - partly because he's more talented and partly because he's spent countless hours practising and playing.

Now does your friend tell you that you are not playing music right when you use the guitar? Does he say that anyone who isn't at his level is lazy? Does he say that in order to enjoy music or any aspect of it, you need to put in the same time he does and anything else is not? THAT'S the problem you don't seem to want to get.

 Acephale wrote:

 jreilly89 wrote:


Some people legitimately don't have time. Besides, some people don't like to paint. If you don't want to fight someone's grey army, that's fine. I absolutely agree, I would rather watch two painted armies duke it out than a grey slaughter. But I don't get why there is some elitist attitude painters have towards non-painters

I suppose it has to do with pride.

If I spent countless hours and incredible effort on something, naturally I'm going to take pride in it. If I've become a good painter through a long and slow learning process and painted my armies to a high standard, it will come as no surprise that I'll consider my armies aesthetically superior to an army of unpainted models.

If that's "elitist", so be it. It's a fact of life that some people are better than others at certain things. I'm a mediocre guitarist at best, but I wouldn't dream of calling my mate (who is a great guitarist by any standard) an elitist because he doesn't pretend that we're on the same level. He is simply better than me at playing the guitar - partly because he's more talented and partly because he's spent countless hours practising and playing.

On the other hand, I'm a better drummer than him and none of us pretend otherwise either. Now if someone who bought a bass guitar but can't play it at all showed up at a gig and demanded to play with us we'd naturally refuse - the result would be inferior and mostly embarrassing to listen to. Is that elitist? Perhaps, but both the band and the audience prefer it that way. And the guy with the bass guitar could just start practising and get better, instead of expecting the world to lower itself to his standards.

Now if he hates practising and prefer watching TV instead while the bass guitar ends up in the closet, fine. But then he cant' really count on being treated like he's in a band - owning an instrument doesn't make you a musician.

But this is where he have a difference. Your friend doesn't bash on you for being a worse guitarist, nor does he ridicule you and tell you you need to get to a "base" level of playing. This is where the elitist attitude comes in. There's nothing wrong with taking pride in your army, but ridiculing people and chastising them for not being at a standard level of painting is stupid.

Also, by virtue of owning models and playing a game of 40k, you are automatically a wargamer. Painted models in most cases are not required to play 40k, merely having them assembled and having the rulebooks allows you to play. So I'm glad to hear you paint at such a professional level, but don't think it makes you better than anyone else.

A 40k players best friends:

Anti Bacterial Soap - Wash the sweat and bacteria off your body so the smell goes away. Shower gel just covers the smell.

A smile - Goes a long way to fostering a pleasant environment with your opponent.

Always be clear and concise about what you are doing and what rules you are using to your opponent before you roll any dice. And wait for them to acknowledge and agree. - This stops any confusion between you and your opponent.

Always roll your dice in a clearly visible area. Roll scatter dice as close to the point of impact as possible. Always pick up your fails rather than your successes. - This also helps your opponent follow clearly what is going on and eliminates the possibility of dice shenanigans.

Try and talk to your opponent about his army, it is afterall your most obvious common ground. How long have they been playing? How long have they used that faction? Did they paint it themself? Talk about any notable conversions he has or nicely painted units. All helps to make a pleasant experience and brings you closer.

 jreilly89 wrote:

 Brennonjw wrote:
my only issue with the "dont have time crowd" is this: sit out from 1 or 2 games, paint your models to bare basic, basecoat and color the gun, with 40k, you could go through 20 models in an hour and make the game way more enjoyable for everyone. if you hate painting dont, but find a better excuse then "dont have time" please.

Some people enjoy playing more than painting. Who cares?

yes


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Acephale wrote:

 jreilly89 wrote:


Some people legitimately don't have time. Besides, some people don't like to paint. If you don't want to fight someone's grey army, that's fine. I absolutely agree, I would rather watch two painted armies duke it out than a grey slaughter. But I don't get why there is some elitist attitude painters have towards non-painters

I suppose it has to do with pride.

If I spent countless hours and incredible effort on something, naturally I'm going to take pride in it. If I've become a good painter through a long and slow learning process and painted my armies to a high standard, it will come as no surprise that I'll consider my armies aesthetically superior to an army of unpainted models.

If that's "elitist", so be it. It's a fact of life that some people are better than others at certain things. I'm a mediocre guitarist at best, but I wouldn't dream of calling my mate (who is a great guitarist by any standard) an elitist because he doesn't pretend that we're on the same level. He is simply better than me at playing the guitar - partly because he's more talented and partly because he's spent countless hours practising and playing.

On the other hand, I'm a better drummer than him and none of us pretend otherwise either. Now if someone who bought a bass guitar but can't play it at all showed up at a gig and demanded to play with us we'd naturally refuse - the result would be inferior and mostly embarrassing to listen to. Is that elitist? Perhaps, but both the band and the audience prefer it that way. And the guy with the bass guitar could just start practising and get better, instead of expecting the world to lower itself to his standards.

Now if he hates practising and prefer watching TV instead while the bass guitar ends up in the closet, fine. But then he cant' really count on being treated like he's in a band - owning an instrument doesn't make you a musician.

heres a thought too, what if a player paints like a toddler without thumbs? are you going to blast them for poor paint jobs? put them down because their skills don't compare to yours? To me i feel like "grey plastic blobs" and poor paint jobs are both going to get attacked the same way...this whole idea that an unpainted army ruins the table top feel to the game and that some players refuse to play against unpainted armys, which like i said i feel those same players probably either refuse to play aginst poorly painted armys or mock ones art skills..hell i'll admit it my art skills are terrible but i still enjoy painting them, if and when i can find time to sit down and focus on the task at hand.

Food and drink near models or playing areas drives me nuts. I'm not entirely sure what people are thinking putting a sweaty drink down on a table.

I won't even bring food or drink into a shop. I've always thought it a bit rude to others, even when it's allowed, whether by cleanliness or smell.


EDIT: Saw AlexRae's comment after I posted. Yes, please roll scatter dice near the target zone. It cuts a lot of confusion out of figuring the angle, and keeps everyone honest.

People who go on about how they play the best armies that will own you or how they "once killed 7 terminators at once". It's very annoying to me.

People who abuse the beginners system at my store. It just ruins the fun of the game and makes it unpleasant for everyone.

Worst of all is people who don't take part in games and people who complain that nothing happened to them when they were hiding in the corner of the board the entire game.

People who complain about complaining complainers is my complaint.



amidoingitright?

 Desubot wrote:
People who complain about complaining complainers is my complaint.



amidoingitright?

People who complain about people complaining about hte people who complain about the complaining complainers who complain about complaining.


Now its right.

However, the people who complain about the above are OK.

pm713 wrote:
People who abuse the beginners system at my store. It just ruins the fun of the game and makes it unpleasant for everyone..

At my FLGS there is one or two guys who plays several games a week and they always join the beginner-tourneys. Almost every time they end in top 3. I find this annoying because I´m absolutely that player who doesn´t have that total knowledge about every single rule in the BRB or all the dexes except the one I play myself.
How entertaining is it to start play a tourney when you know that you wont have a chance to win?

VanHallan wrote:
Then you would say painting isn't a priority for me. Not that you don't have time. Saying you don't have time to paint means that given enough time, you would paint. These people would not paint regardless of how much time it took. They don't like it, they don't want to get good at it, and they for some reason think the game is enough fun to justify spending money on, but time? not so much. I'd much rather spend more time on something than money.

And so we're back at the golf analogy. What kind of golfer do you want to play with? The one that spends 2k every couple years on new clubs, or the one that spends a few hundred every month on lessons to get better at the game?

Not saying there is a right or wrong answer to it but if your goal is to just go out drink beers and whack a ball around for the hell of it, stay way from the guy taking the game(hobby) seriously and go show off with the guy with new flashy clubs every so often.

The golf course is big enough for the both of us, i think.

100% legit question:
Have ever in your life been tested for or diagnosed with autism or similar?
As a psycholigist, I am highly curious.

Also I think I've got an answer for the guy with the 'why the hate on competitive players" thread.

No autism here. 100% legit question- why? you can pm it to me if that's easier I'm sure I've posted enough in this thread.

For the last time, its not a PERSONAL thing against anybody who CHOOSES not to paint. Its a simple matter of poor reasoning.

It is not the case that people "don't have time" to do something like paint models. It is a matter of how that time is spent. If you spend x hours per week on the hobby, there is no reason you couldn't spend a portion of X painting.

If you have time to do this hobby, you have time to paint. I just recently started playing. I never said "I don't have time to play." I was choosing to paint so I could eventually play a painted army.

If people dont want to paint, that's their army and their choice. but the "i dont have time" excuse does not, will not, and can not hold water.

The opportunity cost is too high. and that's all l it is. Anybody who wants to keep bullshitting on about it can be my guest. You can even believe it.

And you continue to miss the point in favor of ego. Lovely.

I would suggest it is you who misses the point. If you have time to post on dakka, that time could be spent painting. simple fact. Not saying you have to, but you could. Its possible. Figure it out.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
You insist on making a point that I'm not interested in and not arguing against.

Jesus Christ.

Another decent thread that has been ruined by paint elitists.

There are millions of wargamers.
They are all different people.
They choose to play the game in different ways.

Get the flying feth over it.

Seriously guys, it ain't funny.

I was done with this thread 2 days ago. Come to find out people ask me questions I might as well answer them.

By the way, how many people's avatars on here are models that aren't painted? 100% legit question.

 reiner wrote:
Food and drink near models or playing areas drives me nuts. I'm not entirely sure what people are thinking putting a sweaty drink down on a table.

I won't even bring food or drink into a shop. I've always thought it a bit rude to others, even when it's allowed, whether by cleanliness or smell.


EDIT: Saw AlexRae's comment after I posted. Yes, please roll scatter dice near the target zone. It cuts a lot of confusion out of figuring the angle, and keeps everyone honest.

Our shop has trashcans for this reason, but its always been kind of an unspoken rule to eat away from the table or at least eat on a side table, not directly over the game board.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

VanHallan wrote:
I was done with this thread 2 days ago. Come to find out people ask me questions I might as well answer them.

By the way, how many people's avatars on here are models that aren't painted? 100% legit question.

How many people's avatars are things that aren't 40k models or even 40k related?

What annoys me most is when someone works their hardest to find 'loop holes' in rules to exploit something even when it's obvious it's not meant to happen.

To the OP...
You mean besides going online and being TFG online bully loudly and obnoxiously acting like a know it all and flaming and trolling at anyone who disagrees with them in any way shape or form? And when agreed with make up something to argue over just for the "sport".We have many like that here. lol

I'm assuming though that you mean in actual games however. The stuff done then is much less annoying. slow turns and cheating are what annoy me.

 bubz wrote:
Players bringing unpainted models to games week after week really bugs me. I get that it's time consuming and expensive and whatever, but put some effort into the hobby. I'd like to see some progress over the course of a month.

The thing is I really hate painting. I mean really hate it, most likely as much as you hate playing against unpainted armies.

Its not that I am not putting any effort into the hobby, its that I get no satisfaction out of painting so why subject myself to something I dislike doing?

Not that you are wrong by any means, some people are lazy but some of us out there just plain hate it.

pm713 wrote:
People who go on about how they play the best armies that will own you or how they "once killed 7 terminators at once". It's very annoying to me.

People who abuse the beginners system at my store. It just ruins the fun of the game and makes it unpleasant for everyone.

Worst of all is people who don't take part in games and people who complain that nothing happened to them when they were hiding in the corner of the board the entire game.

Meh I can deal with this, it's when you play them afterwards and win and they drop little shots about Tervigons and Tyrannofexes being cheesy (lol). It's like please... learn some humility, you just bragged about how epic your army was, should I have thrown the match to satisfy your ego?

 SHUPPET wrote:

pm713 wrote:
People who go on about how they play the best armies that will own you or how they "once killed 7 terminators at once". It's very annoying to me.

People who abuse the beginners system at my store. It just ruins the fun of the game and makes it unpleasant for everyone.

Worst of all is people who don't take part in games and people who complain that nothing happened to them when they were hiding in the corner of the board the entire game.

Meh I can deal with this, it's when you play them afterwards and win and they drop little shots about Tervigons and Tyrannofexes being cheesy (lol). It's like please... learn some humility, you just bragged about how epic your army was, should I have thrown the match to satisfy your ego?

The very reason I dont brag or trashtalk. I even always do my best to downplay my army and when I do well, I am the one to say I got lucky. No one likes to hear a braggart.

 jreilly89 wrote:

But this is where he have a difference. Your friend doesn't bash on you for being a worse guitarist, nor does he ridicule you and tell you you need to get to a "base" level of playing. This is where the elitist attitude comes in. There's nothing wrong with taking pride in your army, but ridiculing people and chastising them for not being at a standard level of painting is stupid.

Also, by virtue of owning models and playing a game of 40k, you are automatically a wargamer. Painted models in most cases are not required to play 40k, merely having them assembled and having the rulebooks allows you to play. So I'm glad to hear you paint at such a professional level, but don't think it makes you better than anyone else.

Now don't get me wrong, I would never bash or ridicule others' painting skills. On the contrary I think you should always be encouraging and positive when commenting on someone else's army - as long as it's painted, that is.

But if it isn't even painted, there's really nothing to be positive about. Am I supposed to pretend that looking at your unpainted models standing next to mine gives me the same pleasure as looking at two painted armies on the table? Am I supposed to commend you on buying some plastic and gluing it together, while I actually took the time to paint my minis so that you'll have something nice to look at while you play against me?

It's a fact that painted armies look better than unpainted ones - even if it's only some primer and basecoat it makes a world of difference. If you play a miniature wargame regularly for years, you can at least spend a couple of hours on spraying your minis and doing some basic speedpainting. It makes the game more enjoyable for everyone and I don't see how pointing that out makes you a bashing, ridiculing elitist.

Now just to be extra clear: I don't dislike people having inferior painting skills. A badly painted army is at least painted; someone put in the effort and (hopefully) did his best. What I don't like is this attitude where people don't put in any effort at all but still expect to be treated with the same level of respect as those who actually painted their miniatures - or even feel insulted or belittled by the fact that commited and talented people take pride in their work.

 Acephale wrote:

 jreilly89 wrote:

But this is where he have a difference. Your friend doesn't bash on you for being a worse guitarist, nor does he ridicule you and tell you you need to get to a "base" level of playing. This is where the elitist attitude comes in. There's nothing wrong with taking pride in your army, but ridiculing people and chastising them for not being at a standard level of painting is stupid.

Also, by virtue of owning models and playing a game of 40k, you are automatically a wargamer. Painted models in most cases are not required to play 40k, merely having them assembled and having the rulebooks allows you to play. So I'm glad to hear you paint at such a professional level, but don't think it makes you better than anyone else.

Now don't get me wrong, I would never bash or ridicule others' painting skills. On the contrary I think you should always be encouraging and positive when commenting on someone else's army - as long as it's painted, that is.

But if it isn't even painted, there's really nothing to be positive about. Am I supposed to pretend that looking at your unpainted models standing next to mine gives me the same pleasure as looking at two painted armies on the table? Am I supposed to commend you on buying some plastic and gluing it together, while I actually took the time to paint my minis so that you'll have something nice to look at while you play against me?

It's a fact that painted armies look better than unpainted ones - even if it's only some primer and basecoat it makes a world of difference. If you play a miniature wargame regularly for years, you can at least spend a couple of hours on spraying your minis and doing some basic speedpainting. It makes the game more enjoyable for everyone and I don't see how pointing that out makes you a bashing, ridiculing elitist.

Now just to be extra clear: I don't dislike people having inferior painting skills. A badly painted army is at least painted; someone put in the effort and (hopefully) did his best. What I don't like is this attitude where people don't put in any effort at all but still expect to be treated with the same level of respect as those who actually painted their miniatures - or even feel insulted or belittled by the fact that commited and talented people take pride in their work.

Not what's being gotten at. You don't need to tell them that their grey plastic is good, you simply have to avoid being overbearing in regards to your painting and their lack of painting. Don't say anything if that's what it takes. Encourage them, sure, but that's it.

Everyone should receive the same level of respect. Doesn't matter if they're the local career criminal, the war veteran, scumbag drug dealing teenager or your mother. This is what comes off as elitist, the idea of them 'not deserving respect'. You can point out that it does look better, everyone here agrees that a well painted army increases enjoyment, but it's basic courtesy to avoid trashing someone.

Farseer Anath'lan wrote:

 Acephale wrote:

 jreilly89 wrote:

But this is where he have a difference. Your friend doesn't bash on you for being a worse guitarist, nor does he ridicule you and tell you you need to get to a "base" level of playing. This is where the elitist attitude comes in. There's nothing wrong with taking pride in your army, but ridiculing people and chastising them for not being at a standard level of painting is stupid.

Also, by virtue of owning models and playing a game of 40k, you are automatically a wargamer. Painted models in most cases are not required to play 40k, merely having them assembled and having the rulebooks allows you to play. So I'm glad to hear you paint at such a professional level, but don't think it makes you better than anyone else.

Now don't get me wrong, I would never bash or ridicule others' painting skills. On the contrary I think you should always be encouraging and positive when commenting on someone else's army - as long as it's painted, that is.

But if it isn't even painted, there's really nothing to be positive about. Am I supposed to pretend that looking at your unpainted models standing next to mine gives me the same pleasure as looking at two painted armies on the table? Am I supposed to commend you on buying some plastic and gluing it together, while I actually took the time to paint my minis so that you'll have something nice to look at while you play against me?

It's a fact that painted armies look better than unpainted ones - even if it's only some primer and basecoat it makes a world of difference. If you play a miniature wargame regularly for years, you can at least spend a couple of hours on spraying your minis and doing some basic speedpainting. It makes the game more enjoyable for everyone and I don't see how pointing that out makes you a bashing, ridiculing elitist.

Now just to be extra clear: I don't dislike people having inferior painting skills. A badly painted army is at least painted; someone put in the effort and (hopefully) did his best. What I don't like is this attitude where people don't put in any effort at all but still expect to be treated with the same level of respect as those who actually painted their miniatures - or even feel insulted or belittled by the fact that commited and talented people take pride in their work.

Not what's being gotten at. You don't need to tell them that their grey plastic is good, you simply have to avoid being overbearing in regards to your painting and their lack of painting. Don't say anything if that's what it takes. Encourage them, sure, but that's it.

Everyone should receive the same level of respect. Doesn't matter if they're the local career criminal, the war veteran, scumbag drug dealing teenager or your mother. This is what comes off as elitist, the idea of them 'not deserving respect'. You can point out that it does look better, everyone here agrees that a well painted army increases enjoyment, but it's basic courtesy to avoid trashing someone.

I'm sorry, but I don't think a career criminal or drug dealer deserves the same level of respect as my mother does. If that's elitist of me, well then I'm proud to be an elitist.

Also, where did I say anything about trashing people? The thread's about "the most annoying things players do". It annoys me when people constantly field unpainted armies and claim they're "too busy" to paint, and it also annoys me when the same people start crying and whining about elitism because people who painted their armies prefer playing against others who also painted their armies.

This doesn't mean I trash people, hate them or think they're inferior human beings. I just think their armies are ugly and that they could easily make them look better by putting in some effort. I also think it's silly to be offended by the fact that dedication and talent garners more respect than the lack of said qualitites.

Acephale wrote:

It's a fact that painted armies look better than unpainted ones - even if it's only some primer and basecoat it makes a world of difference. .

Acephale wrote:[ it's just a statement of fact: grey plastic is ugly.

I think you should stop pretending that your opinion is somehow an objective "fact".

 Acephale wrote:
It annoys me when people constantly field unpainted armies and claim they're "too busy" to paint, and it also annoys me when the same people start crying and whining about elitism because people who painted their armies prefer playing against others who also painted their armies.

I've never seen anyone start crying or whining because someone prefers to play against a painted army instead of theirs.

I've never understood why when it comes to 40K, people complain about others "doing the hobby wrong" because they don't participate in one aspect of "the hobby", yet if two people enjoy fishing, but one goes out of his way to build his own boat, make his own rod, etc. nobody expects him to look down on the other for "fishing wrong".

 Dannyrulx wrote:
Jesus Christ.

Another decent thread that has been ruined by paint elitists.

There are millions of wargamers.
They are all different people.
They choose to play the game in different ways.

Get the flying feth over it.

Seriously guys, it ain't funny.

 Happyjew wrote:

 Acephale wrote:
It annoys me when people constantly field unpainted armies and claim they're "too busy" to paint, and it also annoys me when the same people start crying and whining about elitism because people who painted their armies prefer playing against others who also painted their armies.

I've never seen anyone start crying or whining because someone prefers to play against a painted army instead of theirs.

I've never understood why when it comes to 40K, people complain about others "doing the hobby wrong" because they don't participate in one aspect of "the hobby", yet if two people enjoy fishing, but one goes out of his way to build his own boat, make his own rod, etc. nobody expects him to look down on the other for "fishing wrong".

Well I've been called an insulting, elitist jackass on this very forum just for voicing the opinion that I prefer painted armies and dislike unpainted ones - in my book that's pretty over-sensitive and equals whining.

As for "doing it wrong": no, they're not doing it wrong. They're "doing it" in a way that gives me, as their opponent and playing partner, less pleasure from gaming. That's why I care about it, because it affects my gaming experience. If it didn't ,I couldn't care less about how people chose to spend their free time. But this is a social hobby and what you do and don't do affect other people's enjoyment.




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Steelmage99 wrote:

Acephale wrote:

It's a fact that painted armies look better than unpainted ones - even if it's only some primer and basecoat it makes a world of difference. .

Acephale wrote:[ it's just a statement of fact: grey plastic is ugly.

I think you should stop pretending that your opinion is somehow an objective "fact".

Ok, so I'm sorry if I offended all the people out there who think grey plastic is beautiful. Your taste is as good as mine, there are no objective aesthetical values at all. Happy?

I guess we could just as well play with bits of cardboard then. Or even display them as pieces of art. After all, who are we to say cardboard isn't beautiful?


Anyway, I'm not derailing this thread any further. If someone wants to keep battling, send a PM

Acephale wrote:

Steelmage99 wrote:

Acephale wrote:

It's a fact that painted armies look better than unpainted ones - even if it's only some primer and basecoat it makes a world of difference. .

Acephale wrote:[ it's just a statement of fact: grey plastic is ugly.

I think you should stop pretending that your opinion is somehow an objective "fact".

Ok, so I'm sorry if I offended all the people out there who think grey plastic is beautiful.

So everybody that doesn't agree with you that grey plastic is ugly, thinks that grey plastic is beautiful?
Don't be stupid.
First of all, I can reject your statement ("Grey plastic is ugly") without subscribing to the opposite statement ("Grey plastic is beautiful"). I can even reject your statement without subscribing to the negation of your statement ("Grey plastic is not ugly").
Second, those aren't the two only options. Grey plastic can be seen as neutral.
Grey plastic can even be beneficial compared to painted plastic depending on the "paint-job" applied to the army.

Your taste is as good as mine, there are no objective aesthetical values at all. Happy?

Yes, please.

I guess we could just as well play with bits of cardboard then. Or even display them as pieces of art. After all, who are we to say cardboard isn't beautiful?

An "argument" making use of the Slippery Slope Fallacy isn't really impressive.


I simply pointed out a painfully obvious issue in your statements.
It is not a "fact" that grey plastic is ugly, and it is not a "fact" that painted armies (even only some primer and base-coat) looks better.
It is your opinion and shouldn't be misrepresented.

We can post a lot of factual statements, that we all know is really our opinions.
That is not what you did. You explicitly stated that your opinions were facts....and I called you out on it.

Why did I do that? Because to me it is one of the most annoying things some players do.

 Boyofdestiny205 wrote:

 bubz wrote:
Players bringing unpainted models to games week after week really bugs me. I get that it's time consuming and expensive and whatever, but put some effort into the hobby. I'd like to see some progress over the course of a month.

The thing is I really hate painting. I mean really hate it, most likely as much as you hate playing against unpainted armies.

Its not that I am not putting any effort into the hobby, its that I get no satisfaction out of painting so why subject myself to something I dislike doing?

Not that you are wrong by any means, some people are lazy but some of us out there just plain hate it.

And I get that, I wasn't a huge fan of painting until about a year ago when I sat down with a new army and thought "well if they're gonna be painted, I should really try this time" and developed better painting skills. I still struggle to motivate myself with bigger models or large blobs of infantry but taking it a little at a time has helped me enjoy painting and I can see that my opponents appreciate seeing more painted every week. Even if it's another colour base coat added to a trukk.

I think painting is implicit in the hobby. Obviously others don't, this doesn't need to be gone over again. This is a thread about opinions related to 40k, I've stated mine and those that disagree can move on. "I don't like painting" is fine, "I don't have time" is lazy. This has also been gone over. Stop yourself now.

I would never not play an unpainted army but I would encourage those with unpainted minis to get a primer on there or a base coat. 3 colours makes a world of difference, aesthetically. Ultimately it's up to you how you enjoy your models, but I think putting some effort into the look of your minis carries with it an air of sportsmanship in terms of respecting your potential opponents time spent having to look at your models for extended periods of time.

 Acephale wrote:

 Happyjew wrote:

 Acephale wrote:
It annoys me when people constantly field unpainted armies and claim they're "too busy" to paint, and it also annoys me when the same people start crying and whining about elitism because people who painted their armies prefer playing against others who also painted their armies.

I've never seen anyone start crying or whining because someone prefers to play against a painted army instead of theirs.

I've never understood why when it comes to 40K, people complain about others "doing the hobby wrong" because they don't participate in one aspect of "the hobby", yet if two people enjoy fishing, but one goes out of his way to build his own boat, make his own rod, etc. nobody expects him to look down on the other for "fishing wrong".

Well I've been called an insulting, elitist jackass on this very forum just for voicing the opinion that I prefer painted armies and dislike unpainted ones - in my book that's pretty over-sensitive and equals whining.

As for "doing it wrong": no, they're not doing it wrong. They're "doing it" in a way that gives me, as their opponent and playing partner, less pleasure from gaming. That's why I care about it, because it affects my gaming experience. If it didn't ,I couldn't care less about how people chose to spend their free time. But this is a social hobby and what you do and don't do affect other people's enjoyment.

The people who I've sen in these threads being called an insulting elitist jackass are those who are claiming that they are better because they paint, and look down on others for not doing so. Not necessarily in those words of course.

If playing against unpainted models bothers you so much, why play against them? No one is forcing you to.

Where are the mods.... 3 pages of paint natter

 Grey Knight Janitor wrote:
Where are the mods.... 3 pages of paint natter

It's called Alert Mod button. You can also PM the mods. Also, neener neener, painting arguments!

I hate fortification. It leads to a very unbalanced game. I was in a 1750 game where the guy brought a Void Missal battery... needless to say I could only kill a total of 17 models, it was a Tau player

Back seat gamers, the ones who watch and commentate and yet have nothing to do with the game itself. They'll second guess both players, offer insight into their opinion of everything, get involved in rules queries. I'm sure we've all encountered at least one like this.

Also the scatter dice thing. As close to the point of impact as possible, it's amazing how this doesn't occur to so many people.

MarsNZ wrote:
Back seat gamers, the ones who watch and commentate and yet have nothing to do with the game itself. They'll second guess both players, offer insight into their opinion of everything, get involved in rules queries. I'm sure we've all encountered at least one like this.

OMG yes. I had this one guy that kept taunting my 500 pt Tyranid force against my friend's 500 pt Tau for saying something was going to die every turn (he had a deathstar unit). I won that game, with the possibility to table him, had my friend not conceded.

Another thing that really irks me are those players that complain about everyone and everything saying 'that's ing stupid' or 'you got lucky' or 'you tailored your list against mine' or *insert excuse* and yet do absolutely nothing to improve, making the same little mistakes that snowball into the loss.

And those people that bring the absolute cheese when building lists. When they lose, they scream their head and accuse you of cheating.

I've got a lot of people in my club who I will never play against, either having played or watched them play.

Gah.

MarsNZ wrote:
Back seat gamers, the ones who watch and commentate and yet have nothing to do with the game itself. They'll second guess both players, offer insight into their opinion of everything, get involved in rules queries. I'm sure we've all encountered at least one like this.

Also the scatter dice thing. As close to the point of impact as possible, it's amazing how this doesn't occur to so many people.

Both of these. I dislike the back seat gamers that will ask you questions that they already know the answers to just to see if you know it. These are the people I usually give the wrong answer to like "my Dreadnaught has 14 front armour" just to watch them skip away like the gossip princess they are...

 Rotary wrote:
I have one opponent who always rolls the dice in a dice box at about chest level. He makes noises and faces as he rolls and then tells you how many hits he got. I Know longer tolerate that sort of thing, dice should be rolled in the open, with out any fast hands.

It's funny you should say that, because I insist on the complete opposite -that dice are rolled in a tray or box!!! A big tray or box and In full sight of course. The reason I do this -I spend an age making and painting scenery and don't want paint or adhesive stuff like static grass being knocked off, or my scenery otherwise being degraded. The same goes for metal models and any that are otherwise not 100% durable. Perhaps that's anal of me, but what can I say, I didn't spend 10-15 hours making something only for couple of thousand D6's @ high velicity to batter it. It was either that or use foam dice!

Just kidding about the foam dice.

hmmm. I guess we have people that start rolling away without saying what they are rolling, from which unit, and at whom.

That and no one seems to properly line up their scatter arrows.

pm713 wrote:
People who go on about how they play the best armies that will own you or how they "once killed 7 terminators at once". It's very annoying to me.

People who abuse the beginners system at my store. It just ruins the fun of the game and makes it unpleasant for everyone.

Worst of all is people who don't take part in games and people who complain that nothing happened to them when they were hiding in the corner of the board the entire game.

Back in the day in other mini games i've played, we had issues with cheese blasters(you know guys that just play whats 100% good and meta) grinding green horn players to dust and eventually discouraging them from the game...well we answered and began giving those cheese players the same treatment they gave to the newbs( we were rules whores, played straight tournement level builds and destroyed the cheese)...needless to say one by one those players decided "oh this game isen;t fun anymore so i'm selling"

Well, there are always things that annoy, especially when you're OCD, but that's a topic for another thread. What annoys me on the table? List tailoring, I've always hated that. Seems like something you should really only do for a tourney or the like. Another thing that I hate is cheaters, in all their forms. I hate the dice fudgers, the LOS benders, the terrain nudgers, the rules laywers, the greedy movers, and pretty much any other type of cheater. I mean hell! It's a game played with plastic dollies with names like Severin or Angron.

But there is one thing about playing 40k that annoys me the most, far worse than any of the above and that is... Tau players! No offense guys, I'm sure you're alright people, but damn do I hate playing against your fish faced minis! Every time I see them lining up in a deployment zone I think to myself "Here we go again!" and I get mentally prepared for a bare butt spanking. And not the good kind that you hope your babysitter will give you.

I hate Tow. I like to give any Tau player I face a small tip (A converted Guardian, maybe some Objectives) if he leaves his deployment zone during a game.

To add another; players that don't see 'fluff', only 'crunch' or numbers in their games. You either won or lost, no story, no narrative, just stats and statistics that happen to be shaped like plastic men.

As an example, my FLGS had a zombie event for halloween whereby you had to have a troop and HQ of 250pts in 40k survive as long as you can against endless waves of undead.

I only managed to kill 28 (The winner got over 100 with kroots, nobody knows how), but I managed to last the longest (Seven turns over the five the guy playing as zombies predicted, and a full turn longer than the guy who won) which I was relatively proud of even though I scored the least (28).

I liked to think my Wolf Lord, who was the last model left surrounded by dozens of crowds of undead, wielding the Black Death, Helm of Durast and Rune Armour, had gone down swinging. Taking as many as he could before finally having so many zombies stuck on his axe he got overwhelmed.

I voiced this to some buds there nearby who at least admitted I had lasted a very long time. But one guy commented saying "A shame it's about kill points and not running around".

I hadn't budged once from where I started (You could deploy anywhere, but the zombies would spawn from all four sides, so everyone took the middle). This was over a FB comment though, so it may have been a misunderstanding as text chat can do, but it still irked me that some people don't feel like anything short of a flat out win is worth mentioning. Or they don't see any point to narrative or in my case grinning as I imagine my SW army fighting bitterly to the end.

 krodarklorr wrote:
Most annoying thing to me, honestly, is not knowing rules, or thinking you know them, but you're wrong. Like, back in 6th edition, I was watching my friend play a League game. He was Orks, fighting against Eldar. The girl who was playing Eldar had the tip of her Wraithknight and Wraithlord's base touching a ruin, and said that she had a 4+ cover save. And, she wanted to argue to the bitter end that she was right.

Or like when Dave from Miniwargaming rolls for Dangerous Terrain for Bel'akor...like, really?

Solution: Tell her that she should check up the rules afterwards, and just give her the cover save The ratio of guys to girls playing wargames is like... 50:1? So what the heck

Besides, anyone who does that kind of thing, I just turn it around and do the same thing to them See my Riptide? The little pebble is cover, bwahahaha!


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Ranor wrote:
To add another; players that don't see 'fluff', only 'crunch' or numbers in their games. You either won or lost, no story, no narrative, just stats and statistics that happen to be shaped like plastic men.

When I first played, I was highly competitive and very guilty of this. It was no different than MtG... I *WANTED* to win, so it didn't really matter what I did to win, and it didn't matter how cheesy the army was or how little fun it was for the other guy on the table.

Many years later, I could really care less if I win anymore, as long as I get to field a cool army that's awesomely painted with units that fits with the fluff and my theme.

I guess I'm just saying I've been on both sides of that, and I get it, both ways. However, I'm quite certain that you get a lot more fun out of the game (long term) if you encourage new players by making it fun, rather than facerolling them, and you get a lot more respect being an interesting and colorful player, than one that spams wave serpents.

Whoever said that is a dick regardless sheesh why talk down someone else's fun just because you are bitter seriously if that was someone at my flags I'd accidently knock his nicest kill-point-scorer off the table good and hard, give him something to be bitter about. Yeah I'm petty but I'm not bitter to other people without reason

P.S? I wouldn't actually do that because I prefer to confront people being douchebags, but I'd definitely respond to that comment because that's just tears, don't let it become an accepted attitude that he can get away with and I wouldn't like someone talking to me like that in general, hence why people don't.


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My post in response to Rancor btw


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You don't get cover if your base is slightly on top of a ruin base? Thought you did