SO! Hello there everyone, this is a thread we have wanted to start for a while now. We have been doing a podcast for a bit now, and have long wanted to get the community more involved with what we talk about, in essence bring you guys into the podcast which you can listen to on Itunes search "Roll to Seize" or at this address: http://www.partialarc.com/roll-to-seize
Here is the basic "jist" of what we are looking for:
-this thread is a game essentially, so most importantly keep it civil and have fun!
-there are 2 steps to this, first is to build a good list of all of the (widely considered) underused/ unusable/ terrible/ underrated/ fluffy units in the game, in each army. The next step is to see if I can make a themed list around them that may actually make them work... or at least make them silly and amusing, and possibly turn some heads.
And thats it! I'll start by making a list of the units/ models, from the armies I know fairly well, that I think that fit the above criteria. Then you guys can tell me which one or ones you would like me to feature in our next podcast! Ill also place the list here. So please feel free to add to the pot, cause I only know sooo many armies...I need your help! As well, feel free to discuss the validity of any of the units mentioned here!
I'll re-clarify since there has been some confusion: First the point is to get a generally good assembly in each faction (and please when you list suggestions, tell em what part of the codex they lie, fast attack, etc. I know a bunch but not everything in every army....yet!), then after that is complete, I will put a vote for which faction to address. Then after that, which unit/ units or idea to theme around in that faction. Ill then post a rough cut list for all of you to rip to shreds, and the final list will be chosen from the comments and used in the podcast.
It is important to note that the point is for the list to be usable/ winable, but not sacrifice the flavor of the army. I will also try to avoid the "shoe-in" units that any competitive army would take, we don't want to overshadow our theme with commonly used builds.
One last thing, it is important to keep in mind that the units chosen are ones that fit the parameters in the current meta.
Oh and per request, the points we are shooting for is 1850[/u]
List of forgettables:
Space Marines: -HQ: Chaplain, MotF, Helbrecht, Shrike, Grimaldus, Sicarius, Non-bike Captain, GK Brother Captain, GK Champion, GK techmarine
-Troops: Razorbacks (can also go in FA and HS), GK strikers, GK transports
-Elites: Tactical Terminators, Non Ironclad Dreadnoughts, Venerable dread upgrade, Assault Centurions, Vanguard Veterans, GK dreadnought
-Fast Attack: Scout bikers, Bikers (non-troops), attack bike, Assault Marines, DA Nephilim, DA Talon, GK stormraven
-Heavy Support: Whirlwind, Chronus, hunter, GK Purgation Squad, GK landraiders
-HQ: Cannoness Generica goes here. She's not terrible, but the other options are so much better
-Troops: Hahahahaha! You're kidding, right? We only have 1 option. Battle Sisters, Battle Sisters and more Battle Sisters.
-Elites: Sisters Repentia... an all-assault unit in a game where Assault just isnt that viable... and for this slot, they compete with Celestians which, when fully-kitted, are meaty-beaty. Also, SR cannot be taken in numbers to survive having their DT blown up and then the subsequent shooting phase on the 3 left.
-Fast Attack: We only have 2 units in this slot, and both of them are very good for the role they fill.
-Heavy Support: The Penitent Engine. It shares a slot with the Exorcist and with the Retributor Squads... which means this PoS loses. Again, dedicated close-range/melee unit, but not an MC (it's a Walker with Rhino armor). Only if you have, like, a dozen of these things, and a whole lot of other crap for the opponent to shoot at, is it worth fielding these (cause then some might actually make it to melee).
Well, I didn't add the ones specifically not complained about like assassins inquisition and knights, since they are more imperial supplements than anything else. I grouped all the space marines into one, just cause it saves on space.
Tempestus I consider part of Imperial Guard, once again to save space
List of forgettables:
Space Marines: -HQ: Chaplain, MotF, Helbrecht, Shrike, Grimaldus, Sicarius
-Troops: Razorbacks (can also go in FA and HS)
-Elites: Tactical Terminators, Non Ironclad Dreadnoughts, Venerable dread upgrade, Assault Centurions, Vanguard Veterans
-Fast Attack: Scout bikers, Bikers (non-troops), attack bike, Assault Marines
-Heavy Support: Whirlwind, Chronus
Chaos Demons: -HQ: Blue Scribes, Changeling, Masque
-Troops: Bloodletters
-Elites: Bloodcrushers
-Fast Attack: Furies
-Heavy Support: Arguably the Burning chariot, though it's been fixed now. I think it's probably pretty good, but it's competing against the soul grinder.
Fabius Bile can net you a bunch of s5/6 space marines. Pair it with infiltration and you're good to go
Anywayz, it's a lot of work to make some of all the listed stuff worth it and each of them requires a separate article. Search for Vespids/Flayed ones/Nobs in the tactical thread. But generally, it's all doable.
Space Marines:
-HQ: Non-bike Captain(at least the bike one opens up SM bikers as troops, otherwise Librarian is just better due to fewer points), Chaplain (too expensive)
-Troops: Razorback (Why does it cost a fair amount more while having fewer slots)
-Elites: Tactical Terminators(Too much AV2 available, too expensive), Dreadnoughts(just not worth the slot), Vanguard Veterans (WAY too expensive for what they do. Terminators do their job better for better P/M)
-Fast Attack: Attack bike, Assault Marines(Jump infantry kinda suck, much better uses for this slot exist), Bikes (at least the Scout Bikes can take a locator beacon and be useful)
-Heavy Support: Whirlwind, Stalker(why no Interceptor?), Hunter(seriously, interceptor would make this thing worth it), Land Raider Redeemer(give it split-fire and it becomes worth the fewer seats)
EDIT: Once I have a points value I can make a list. I guess I will have to use 5-man tactical squads in the Razorbacks.
HQ: Straken (with the CCS, he costs as much as a Dreadknight, and is a melee character in a unit of 4 guardsmen.)
Kell (Waaaaaaaay too expensive for what he brings. Also, can only be taken in a unit that's already bought a different overpriced SC.)
Nork Deddog (Oh look, more attempts to make the CCS into a melee beast. In fairness, this is probably pretty close to what an Ogryn should be. Unfortunately, GW thinks it needs to cost twice as much as an Ogryn to justify that.)
Lord Commissar (Suffers badly from all IG wargear being costing about twice as much as it should, and the nerfs to his Aura means he doesn't really offer much over a regular Commissar or Priest. Still better than the above though...)
Elites: Ogryns (Suck at life)
Wyrdvane Psyker (Is there a reason you wouldn't just use a Primaris Psyker? Who is cheaper, can hide in a squad and has a Force Weapon. Also, because GW can't write rules, there's now no benefit whatsoever to having a larger unit of them.)
Troops: HWSs (Hello, we're a priority target with T3, a 5+ save and no ablative wounds. It would be really great if you didn't shoot us. Also, we still cost 50% more than we should for no adequately-explored reason.)
SWSs (Not quite as bad as the above, but BS3 and the inability to take a dedicated transport does raise the question of why you don't just use veterans.)
Heavy Bolters (On HWTs or HWSs - they're awful either way, so take your pick.)
FA: Rough Riders (Where did our AP2 lances go? Why can't we assault after outflanking any more? Why do we cost twice as much as a guardsman, but are no more survivable? Why do we always seem to draw 'shelf duty'?)
Hellhounds (Why do we cost as much as a Leman Russ?)
Armoured Sentinels (Remember when we wouldn't just melt in combat to a couple of Krak Grenades? Good times.)
HS: Deathstrike Missile (At some point during this game, I might do something.)
koooaei wrote: Ain't the intention of the thread to "Making fluffy/ underrated units work" and not "Say how useless they are".
The OP first asked us for a list of the underused/ unusable/ terrible/ underrated units in each army.
I thought it would be useful to provide a brief explanation of why I'd put a given unit on the list. If such explanations are of no value to him, then he need only ignore the bracketed sections of my post.
Flayed Ones are the classic, nuff said on these guys. They're junk like every other medium armored InfilFlankStrike melee unit. Their claws having no properties at all and zero special abilities makes em icing on the cake. Imotekh is the only prayer they have of making their points.
Lych Guard actually don't suck too much but they're never used. They are extremely costly for what they do, but the best way to bring them is with an attached HQ and a Veiltek to leap across the board. Only usable in big games.
Praetorians.....let's just say I'm absolutely amazed people complain about flayed ones when these exist. It's a dedicated forty point melee unit...with TWO attacks on the charge. Two. And a single piddly shot. Like, if their role is they wanna jump in and frag 2+ armor, they should have AP2 in melee and, oh I dunno maybe an invuln so they don't just universally die to TEQ? If you can make a list for them, power to ya.
Tomb Blades: possibly the most blatant case of GW going "our players already have one optional unit-we'd better make it super weak and release a new thing that's EXACTLY the same so people have to buy stuff". Unfortunately that fell flat because these guys are A) ugly as sin and B) a "meh" unit choice in a FOC slot that contains scarabs and wraiths. Not terrible, there's just oodles of better options
Destroyers: See above, but the unit they Nerfed down to replace with the new one. They're dead, Jim.
Orikan the Diviner: good news everyone we heard you Necrons wanted best stick HQs so we have you one! Except he stinks in combat, isn't much better even in his pseudo-MC form and lacks the options that make Necron HQs good (chariot, Warscythes, Scarabs)
Boris The Spider: the special Cryptek dude. If GW has sold a single copy of him color me surprised. Ditto as above, no chariot , no scarabs, see ya.
Trayzn the Trollfinite: never in the history of 40k has there been a rule that sounded so awesome on paper but was so worthless in practice. Hmmmmmm let's see...you put him with...Canoptek wraiths and a veiltek, and teleport into the center of an enemy ork or Nid army...then he might work. He is funny though especially as the Warlord.
Ctan Shard: Monstrous Creep at it's finest. THE ALMIGHTY GOD OF THE STARS AND THE COSMOS who comes up to the knee of a wraithknight and dies like a bitch in cc to it. He can hang out with the Avatar of Khaine and whine about kids these days and marneus Calgar.
Fabius Bile can net you a bunch of s5/6 space marines. Pair it with infiltration and you're good to go
Anywayz, it's a lot of work to make some of all the listed stuff worth it and each of them requires a separate article. Search for Vespids/Flayed ones/Nobs in the tactical thread. But generally, it's all doable.
Meaning you either need to get lucky with your warlord roll or take Huron/Ahriman. So you're either going for a 30% chance to get infiltrate as your trait randomly or you're paying 165/230 points for that benefit and your 2nd HQ slot. And now you also can't chargee if you get 1st turn. Yeah, that's not what we call workable.
Yes, if you build a list around some of those units, you can make them passable. Hell, I run thousand sons as my main army 'cause I think they're cool.
Others however, will remain terrible regardless, see Lucius the eternally terrible for a great example; A character whose whole schtick is being in challenges yet sucks arse at it since he didn't bring a 2+ weapon and only has Str 4 and a 5++. On average, it's about 50/50 that a tactical terminator will wreck his face in melee. Hell, a riptide will pwn his ass in melee, a riptide! And he costs as much as Huron, who is a psuedo psycher, gets arguably the best warlord trait, gets armourbane and +2 str on his claw in addition to carrying a power axe just in case and has a 4++ to boot.
This was meant as a list of underpowered/poor choices in each codex, that's what you got. If you wanted to argue completely un-usable units, well, that is a much shorter list with probably only 2 or 3 units per codex.
Fabius Bile can net you a bunch of s5/6 space marines. Pair it with infiltration and you're good to go
Anywayz, it's a lot of work to make some of all the listed stuff worth it and each of them requires a separate article. Search for Vespids/Flayed ones/Nobs in the tactical thread. But generally, it's all doable.
Meaning you either need to get lucky with your warlord roll or take Huron/Ahriman. So you're either going for a 30% chance to get infiltrate as your trait randomly or you're paying 165/230 points for that benefit and your 2nd HQ slot. And now you also can't chargee if you get 1st turn. Yeah, that's not what we call workable.
It IS workable when you build an army around infiltrate. And that's basically how you make most of the units work. They should fit the theme. I've seen such lists doing great - especially vs gunlines or other mellee units. Infiltrate gives you ability to overwhelm a single chosen flank. That's a huge tactical advantage and you pay for it accordingly.
Alright Ill add the things to the list, and clarify what I am looking for here and in the OP: First the point is to get a generally good assembly in each faction, then after that is complete, I will put a vote for which faction to address. Then after that, which unit/ units or idea to theme around in that faction. Ill then post a rough cut list for all of you to rip to shreds, and the final list will be chosen and added to the podcast.
It is important to note that the point is for the list to be usable/ winable, but not sacrifice the flavor of the army. I will also try to avoid the "shoe-in" units that any competitive army would take, we don't want to overshadow our theme with commonly used builds.
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lustigjh wrote: Daemons: I feel like I rarely see Karanak except when I field him.
Master of the forge can be good, take someinquisition allies and give him conversion beamer,roll on divination for perfect timing to see a S10 AP1 blast with ignores cover
ThatSwellFella wrote: Master of the forge can be good, take someinquisition allies and give him conversion beamer,roll on divination for perfect timing to see a S10 AP1 blast with ignores cover
Would you say you see it often, or often enough? The list is for uncommon usage as well as arguably bad units
ChazSexington wrote: Them poor, misbegotten, ignored and downright awful Rough Riders. But screw all of that, 'cause they are dashing cavaliers!
Min squad of 5 with a melta bomb. Cheap, easy to hide, good charge range. Can threaten vehicles. Can get a wound off a wraithknight on the charge statistically.
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Partial Arc LLC. wrote: Voting is up! Tell us what race you would like us to feature in our next episode!
Zaggy could be used within stormboyz formation for a squad containing 3 stormboyz squads. 3 nobz in there are nice. 1 d6 for deepstrike and potential for 2d6 run is nice too. It's not as amazing as kommandoe formation but it works from time to time.
Burnas - not bad in small units in a truck. Actually, quite handy for when you face deepstrikers or lots of infantry. And can pack a cheaper killsaw mek.
Deff dreadz - great in a dredd mob.
Flash Gitz - Small units in a truck or large units in a wagon are actually not that bad. They're definitely more shooty than shootaboyz. And they're wonderful if the enemy's coming for you. Besides, they're still nobz and have a ton of s5 attacks on the charge. In larger games you can go for a formation with Badrukk and split them in 2 squads. It's not bad within blitz brigade formation when you make a scout move and can stay still for the first turn and get that nice bs3.
Bubble chukka ain't amazing but treat it just like a large blast which's doing fine vs an average infantry foe most of the time. It's a bit overpriced and should be the cost of a ZZAP gun, i think, but it's not bad. Last game i've finished off Abaddon with a Baublechukka shot...yep, it's anecdotal evidence but anywayz, ork artillery is so darn cheap that even if you don't shoot it at all, it pays off by simply being there. Run forward and distract the foe if you got nothing to shoot at. t7 3+ is durable as hell for so cheap.
ChazSexington wrote: Them poor, misbegotten, ignored and downright awful Rough Riders. But screw all of that, 'cause they are dashing cavaliers!
Min squad of 5 with a melta bomb. Cheap, easy to hide, good charge range. Can threaten vehicles. Can get a wound off a wraithknight on the charge statistically.
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Partial Arc LLC. wrote: Voting is up! Tell us what race you would like us to feature in our next episode!
Not even listing Codex: DreadGrey Knights?
I lumped all of space marines into a single box, if you have units in mind for grey knights, I will place it in the space marines box with a monicker indicating grey knights
Voted CSM, though I think you'll struggle with IG and Sisters the most.
I think I can make a usable, though not terribly good, list from the Daemons section though (mainly due to Karanak though) based around Tzeentch and Khorne.
Karanak gives one unit of crushers scout, they've got the icon for the bloodletters to come in and daisy chain from each other if they both come in. The other unit of 'Crushers are there to either threaten another flank (and have the icon/banner too) or simply provide even more target saturation. Blue scribes can try for whatever you think you need at the time; Invis, summoning, whatever while staying out of LOS. Horrors camp home objective and try not to die.
Furies either stay in reserve and cap distant objectives or go ahead and eat overwatch/a unit of shooting for the Khorne units as required. Burning chariots race up the field to shoot lascannons at transports/tanks. Skull cannon gives assault grenades to whatever the crushers charge turn 2 or has a crack at taking the last hull point off a transport.
Masque doesn't fit the theme and I cannot think of a single way to make the Changeling good remotely usable. Horrors are there as Tzeentch troops, and skull cannon so I'm not just spamming Chariots. Flesh hounds or screamers would be rad instead of one of the bloodletter & Furies units, but then, this is about using bad units, not propping them up with one of the best units in the 'dex, and both Tzeentch and Khorne have awesome fast attack choices.
Might want to consider dropping a unit of horrors and taking ADL w/Quad gun for the horrors to camp behind and get some AA.
Tau looks like you could make an ok'ish hybrid list though.
Darkstrider with the pathfinders, Stealths to harrass, Firewarriors to have lots of shots and the devilfish to provide cover/transport/objective secured as require. Vespid for anti-MEQ, Sunshark for AA, Longstrike and friends for some tank hunting or light infantry duality. Aegis to grant some of the cover that this list desperately needs.
Originally had a 7/2 sniper/firesight unit in there instead of the 3rd hammerhead, but it already had more than enough AI and very little way to deal with mech, so there you go. Could also trade out the 3rd hammerhead for a skyray with D-[pd and BSF, but again, we're trying not to rely on good units.
With the Pathfinders busy playing at being a heavy weapons team, we're going to have to rely on the tanks for BS4 and volume of fire from the stealths and fire warriors.
Flayed Ones are the classic, nuff said on these guys. They're junk like every other medium armored InfilFlankStrike melee unit. Their claws having no properties at all and zero special abilities makes em icing on the cake. Imotekh is the only prayer they have of making their points.
Lych Guard actually don't suck too much but they're never used. They are extremely costly for what they do, but the best way to bring them is with an attached HQ and a Veiltek to leap across the board. Only usable in big games.
Praetorians.....let's just say I'm absolutely amazed people complain about flayed ones when these exist. It's a dedicated forty point melee unit...with TWO attacks on the charge. Two. And a single piddly shot. Like, if their role is they wanna jump in and frag 2+ armor, they should have AP2 in melee and, oh I dunno maybe an invuln so they don't just universally die to TEQ? If you can make a list for them, power to ya.
Tomb Blades: possibly the most blatant case of GW going "our players already have one optional unit-we'd better make it super weak and release a new thing that's EXACTLY the same so people have to buy stuff". Unfortunately that fell flat because these guys are A) ugly as sin and B) a "meh" unit choice in a FOC slot that contains scarabs and wraiths. Not terrible, there's just oodles of better options
Destroyers: See above, but the unit they Nerfed down to replace with the new one. They're dead, Jim.
Orikan the Diviner: good news everyone we heard you Necrons wanted best stick HQs so we have you one! Except he stinks in combat, isn't much better even in his pseudo-MC form and lacks the options that make Necron HQs good (chariot, Warscythes, Scarabs)
Boris The Spider: the special Cryptek dude. If GW has sold a single copy of him color me surprised. Ditto as above, no chariot , no scarabs, see ya.
Trayzn the Trollfinite: never in the history of 40k has there been a rule that sounded so awesome on paper but was so worthless in practice. Hmmmmmm let's see...you put him with...Canoptek wraiths and a veiltek, and teleport into the center of an enemy ork or Nid army...then he might work. He is funny though especially as the Warlord.
Ctan Shard: Monstrous Creep at it's finest. THE ALMIGHTY GOD OF THE STARS AND THE COSMOS who comes up to the knee of a wraithknight and dies like a bitch in cc to it. He can hang out with the Avatar of Khaine and whine about kids these days and marneus Calgar.
While ranting is great fun and all, a lot of this is just factually wrong. Read the codex and FAQ again (Praetorians, for instance, do have AP2) and do some calculations on, for instance, a C'tan Shard vs. a Wraithknight (it's about even).
While ranting is great fun and all, a lot of this is just factually wrong. Read the codex and FAQ again (Praetorians, for instance, do have AP2)
They do - they're just bad of a lot of other reasons. Like being a 40pt dedicated melee unit with a single attack.
Alcibiades wrote: and do some calculations on, for instance, a C'tan Shard vs. a Wraithknight (it's about even).
Eh? You really think those are even remotely equal?
Wraithknight attacking C'tan 1/2 x 5/6 x 1/2 = 5/24 Having 4 attacks (5 when it charges) it will take the Wraithknight 4-5 rounds of combat to kill the C'tan
Let's say, for the sake of argument, that they're equal in melee (somehow - despite one wounding the other on 5s and getting wounded on 2s in return)
2/3 x 1/3 = 2/9 Having 4 attacks, it will take the C'tan 6-7 turns of combat to kill the Wraithknight.
So, the Wraithknight will win.
But, here's the thing - they will be battling entirely on the Wraithknight's terms. It can move 12", whilst the C'tan shard is stuck plodding along at 6". Also, it can be shooting 2 S10 AP2 guns at the C'tan, whilst it can, at best, respond with a single S9 AP2 shot (I think it might even have less range than the Wraithknight's cannons).
Furthermore, we're only looking at this from the perspective of them fighting each other - the Wraithknight is more mobile, much harder to kill and can contribute far more when not in combat.
I will say that I don't think wraithknight encounters are few and far between, but I honestly cannot remember the last time I saw a C'tan shard being used.I wonder if they will get buffed with the coming dex?
Thats it! The voting has closed, but what to do... the voting was real close with noise marines in the lead, followed by thousand sons and warp talons. Would you like to see a list with all of them or just noise marines?
Whenever you decide to do another of these things, I wanna throw my vote in for DE Hellions. I can't even look at these guys when every other DE fast attack choice is so much better than they are.
i want gw to bring griffon back under the old point cost and make it with the same stats but make it. ordinace 2 accurate barrage. special rule, whens shooting the griffons heavy mortar shoots under the rules of ordinance but counts as heavy 2 for movement rules. basically this would let it get an extra shot, still reroll scatter and fire its after moving/not have to snap shot its heavy bolter.
Wyzilla wrote: Voting for Chaos Space Marines, specifically Warp Talons.
They're not half bad as a min charge-deterrence unit or with allied grimoire. Not bad as a retinue to a jumppack indep - namely sorc. Cause sorc is not fearless.
Don't forget that LC are prime weapons for killing bikes, asm/death company and something like 'ardboyz or ork bikers. Fear helps vs non-marines/fearless.
5 Talons are killing 4+ bikes on a charge.
Not talking about killing marines - their main role on the whole. There's plenty of 3+ droppod stuff.
Furthermore, their blind ability might get handy with the newcrons as you're gona see quite some number on ini2 shooty goodness.
Warp talon's problem is they're too situational for the points. But when the opponent's army meets the criteria, they're fine.
To be honest, i'd be more interested on how to run possessed effectively. As they're even more expensive than warp talons and have...s5 and a random table instead of LC, jumppacks and blind. Every time i've run them, the best i got from them was just reliably being in place thanks to fearless. Not a too cool feat for 26 ppm guyz. Even Crymson Slaughter possessed are used to just babysit potv sorc.
[u]Eldar: -HQ: Pretty much all Phoenix Lords, Prince Yriel, Illadin (sniper guy)
-Troops: Assault Guardians, Guardians without wave serpents
-Elites: Striking Scorpions, Howling Banshees, Harlequins
-Fast Attack: Vipers, Swooping Hawks,
-Heavy Support: Vauls Weapons Platforms, Wraithlords, Falcons
To be fair, I have fairly regularly run in the same army:
-HQ: Prince Yriel
-Troops:Guardians without wave serpents
-Fast Attack: Vypers, Swooping Hawks,
-Heavy Support: Vauls Weapons Platforms, Wraithlords, Falcons
Spoiler:
Yriel is pretty useful for dealing with MEQ threats that get near your lines. If it's a combat squad, use the spear, if it's a full squad, throw down the pie-plate attack.
Guardian Defenders with Platforms are good back-field holding units. Give them Brightlances for AT and just let them camp a home objective. The main weapons might only have 12" range, but Shuriken catapults can still put out a bit of hurt if someone makes a move in your deployment zone. Throw in Yriels Warlord trait and the one-off re-roll 1's to wound within 12" buffs them a little.
Vypers: Okay, so they aren't ever going to be IA11 Hornets, but that aside 2 Shuriken Cannons on a fast platform for 60points isn't all that bad. They are pretty much the swiss army knife of the Eldar army as they can hurt pretty much anything apart from a monolith or land-raider. They might have paper armour, but they aren't meant to be tanking the enemies main assault, they are for flanking the enemy force and hitting from the side/rear.
Swooping Hawks: 24" range gun, only S3 AP5, but it's 3 shots, so attrition alone will whittle down targets.
Perfect for objective grabbing as they don't scatter on deep-strike, they can battle-focus to spread out and still shoot, drop the grenade template, Haywire grenades, plasma grenades, Fleet and wings all for 80 points. I love them.
Support Weapons: 30pts each... 90pts for the full squad (180 if D-cannon, but why bother?) for either 3 Str 6 (Str 7 vs I3 or lower) AP6 (Auto AP1 on a 6 to wound) Pinning or 1-3 Str7-9 AP 2-4 Pinning Barrage weapons that are T7 W2 3+ save.
I love them, they cause my opponents more grief than most other units and cost practically nothing, put out a great amount of damage relative to their cost, are hard as nails vs shooting forcing your enemy to assault them if he want's to deal with them. Absolute bargain.
Wraithlords: Not as cheap as support weapons, but frankly great value. Tough as heck, 2 flamers for mobs, 2 heavy weapons and a wraithsword for the re-rolls and they are the other swiss army knife of the Eldar army. Literally with the sword.
Falcon: This is a harder sell. With the resurrection of the Epic Serpent shield concept, Wave Serpents are better bang for buck due to the higher transport capacity but on a dakka comparison the traditional falcon loadout of Pulse Laser/Scatter Laser/Shuriken Cannon (4 S6 Ap6 laserlock 3 TL St6 AP5, 2 TL S8 AP2) is still useful, as is the fact a 6 man unit can hop in as it's not a DT.
Well I presonally disagree about warpsmith. It's pretty decent choice, but very sensitive to challenging though.
I use him in formation of predator+ landrider + Ferrum Infernum dred + hell brute and works like charm.
Thousands sons work well too most of time for me, defilers are better than Maulfiends and forgfiends in my opinion, just models is incredibly big.
I don't know if anyone has brought this up for this thread or not, so I apologize in advance.
But seriously, everything you mentioned of Necrons is not under rated. Pretty much everything in the book is good, especially the things you mentioned.
krodarklorr wrote: I don't know if anyone has brought this up for this thread or not, so I apologize in advance.
But seriously, everything you mentioned of Necrons is not under rated. Pretty much everything in the book is good, especially the things you mentioned.
I have only filled in what other commenters have mentioned by opinion, so if you have a different opinion about units please present your cases!
As for the necron stuff, that was per the previous codex as this thread was started before the update had come out, so if you have any new thoughts on the units in that codex please feel free to voice your opinions and I will update the list!
HQ Canoness, rosarius, combi-melta, mantle of ophelia, cloak of St. Aspira, book of saint lucius, litanies of faith 155 D2 Canoness, rosarius, combi-melta 90
Woah, who in their right mind would not take 6 swooping hawks in any hybrid eldar army. With Imperial knights roaming round and now vehicles getting a buff with 7th edition, 6 guys jumping around with an infantry killing gun and grenade pack on top of them all having haywire grenades at Initiative 5 is great!
That is a horrible Night Lords list. If they would take a mark, they'd never go for Nurgle- Khorne, Tzeentch, and Slaanesh are the likely candidates, especially Slaanesh and Tzeentch.
That is a horrible Night Lords list. If they would take a mark, they'd never go for Nurgle- Khorne, Tzeentch, and Slaanesh are the likely candidates, especially Slaanesh and Tzeentch.
Ironically, my terrible lists win. So, not so terrible.
That aside, the mental exercize there was to figure out a way to make them shine and I think I mentioned pretty clearly in the article that there were bound to be chalenges in making it work. It requires a good general to play and yeah, if you're not that excellent at 40K, you might not want to try it. It's not a noobcakes list for sure.
But if you're looking to make Warp Talons work and actually be worth while which is a tougher unit in that regard, this is certainly one way to do it.
That is a horrible Night Lords list. If they would take a mark, they'd never go for Nurgle- Khorne, Tzeentch, and Slaanesh are the likely candidates, especially Slaanesh and Tzeentch.
Ironically, my terrible lists win. So, not so terrible.
That aside, the mental exercize there was to figure out a way to make them shine and I think I mentioned pretty clearly in the article that there were bound to be chalenges in making it work. It requires a good general to play and yeah, if you're not that excellent at 40K, you might not want to try it. It's not a noobcakes list for sure.
But if you're looking to make Warp Talons work and actually be worth while which is a tougher unit in that regard, this is certainly one way to do it.
No, I'm referring to how it's more unfluffy then simply taking three Heldrakes in place of the Warp Talons. The whole point of taking Warp Talons in the first place is how they better suit Night Lords, not taking something like the Mark of Nurgle or Huron which has the opposite effect.
I've started a CSM army recently. While I've only played in low points games so far and in an admittedly hard semi-competitive meta, I have found slaanesh marked and icon bearing raptors in a 10 squad with a complementary lord to have performed a lot better than I expected. You have to play them smart and use terrain well. Maneuvering and timing is key, but they are a blast if properly supported through the rest of the list.
No, I'm referring to how it's more unfluffy then simply taking three Heldrakes in place of the Warp Talons. The whole point of taking Warp Talons in the first place is how they better suit Night Lords, not taking something like the Mark of Nurgle or Huron which has the opposite effect.
Well to be fair they dont favor ANY God, but that has no bearing on trying to make a unit viable, which this thread was supposed to be primarily about.
No, I'm referring to how it's more unfluffy then simply taking three Heldrakes in place of the Warp Talons. The whole point of taking Warp Talons in the first place is how they better suit Night Lords, not taking something like the Mark of Nurgle or Huron which has the opposite effect.
Well to be fair they dont favor ANY God, but that has no bearing on trying to make a unit viable, which this thread was supposed to be primarily about.
Indeed, the primary goal is to think WAY outside the norm box and figure out ways to support and make effective the units considered "unusable" by so many players. Experience and tactics is definitely very important, but don't forget that one factor that greatly supports lists with any of the units we choose on this thread is suprise! If an opponent doesn't know it, they will likely not know how to address it and that can make them either hyper focus on your unit, ignoring perhaps more important things in that match, or just the opposite, and end up getting slaughtered by it.
No, I'm referring to how it's more unfluffy then simply taking three Heldrakes in place of the Warp Talons. The whole point of taking Warp Talons in the first place is how they better suit Night Lords, not taking something like the Mark of Nurgle or Huron which has the opposite effect.
Well to be fair they dont favor ANY God, but that has no bearing on trying to make a unit viable, which this thread was supposed to be primarily about.
Not really. We've known of Night Lords who've fallen to Slaanesh, Khorne, and Tzeentch. Slaanesh probably being the most likely given that Night Lords are fairly hedonistic in M41, as to them (especially Raptor Cults) they reap pleasure from the fear of the prey and the joy of the hunt.
No, I'm referring to how it's more unfluffy then simply taking three Heldrakes in place of the Warp Talons. The whole point of taking Warp Talons in the first place is how they better suit Night Lords, not taking something like the Mark of Nurgle or Huron which has the opposite effect.
Well to be fair they dont favor ANY God, but that has no bearing on trying to make a unit viable, which this thread was supposed to be primarily about.
Not really. We've known of Night Lords who've fallen to Slaanesh, Khorne, and Tzeentch. Slaanesh probably being the most likely given that Night Lords are fairly hedonistic in M41, as to them (especially Raptor Cults) they reap pleasure from the fear of the prey and the joy of the hunt.
And yet, who cares. We're looking for efficacy. Not fluffy. But if you think they will be better on the field of battle serving Slaanesh, do your thing.
Would like to see Kommandos given a proper go. The new rules for them plus the formations seem promising but after the Ork release I haven't heard much about them.
On the Kanz episode you didn't give much (if any) mention to the grotzooka.
Vankraken wrote: Would like to see Kommandos given a proper go. The new rules for them plus the formations seem promising but after the Ork release I haven't heard much about them.
On the Kanz episode you didn't give much (if any) mention to the grotzooka.
I apologize for the grotzooka not being mentioned, that was a miss on my end and should have absolutely been talked about.
Yeah. Them fellaz is highly effective and they are Nobs so if they gotta' scrap, they can scrap. I know that there is oddly only one person locally that plays with them and I find it difficult to fathom that!
As a Sisters of Battle player I have no idea why Celestians aren't on the list for underused units in our Elites slot. Basically the same statline and wargear as our basic Troops' leader with the Veteran upgrade, with one additional WS and their once-per-game special rule gives them Furious Charge in one friendly assault phase if it goes off. All for 14 points per model (the Troops come in at 12, though the Vet upgrade is another 10), and they don't even get a CCW. I like the idea of the unit being an elite melee-centric group in power armor, I love their fluff, but they're the only unit in the entire codex that I'm unwilling to field due to their awful, awful performance. Additionally, though I've only ever met a single other Sisters player in a shop, online I've spoken with several and not a single one uses the unit. I'll take Repentia over Celestians any day, and that unit only survives to turn three about one game in four. As far as Penitent Engines, I don't know why anybody would NOT take them. I have a squad of three and two Exorcists as my three Heavy choices, and the Engines outperform the Exorcists often enough that I can't remember the last time the tanks won out. I'm pretty certain the machine injects Murderfuel directly into the spine of the operator, rather than pain and suffering. Clearly the fluff has this wrong.
As for the Ork units everyone thinks are bad, my wife has a squad of 10 Flash Gitz and Kaptin Badrukk himself in a battlewagon in every game she plays, and pulls in a full squad of 6 Killa Kans running alongside a Deff Dread and followed by a Morkanaut when she has the points. It's kind of terrifying. Her Gitz toss out a massive 30 S5 shots with a random AP each turn - granted they almost always hit on 5's - and that's not counting Badrukk and all the weapons on the Wagon. That squad comes in at 395 points, the way she's built it, and it's worth every single one. The unit regularly removes a Rhino every turn and the Wagon can follow up on anything that was inside. She also mainly runs Gretchin for her Troops choices, anywhere from 20 to 60 depending on points and mission. They're amazingly difficult to remove from the table when a Big Mek is standing in the middle of them with a KFF, and they're so small that almost any terrain can be LoS-blocking for them. As far as the Nobz are concerned though, here's two more votes for them being kind of overpriced, but they're nasty when they make it into combat and they're fairly common so I'm not sure they fit for this thread. I think there's only one local Ork player who doesn't have at least one squad of them. My wife has a small squad of them with a Warboss for the sole purpose of being able to field a second Battlewagon, and that makes it a really tough choice to decide whether you can afford to charge the vehicle to take it out when you know what's sitting inside.
Celestians are incredibly under used. But... I only found one good use for them and that wa i nthe command squad or as a bodyguard for Kyrinov when you could still take him.
It's that time again ladies and gents! Cast your votes now, I COMMAND YOU!
Also, there have been many-a-changes to the game as of late, so if you have any comments or updates to the current selections of underused units, please feel free to post them here.
Question: Who in the warp-frenzied world said that Plague Marines and Noise Marines are terrible units? Also, Warp Talons, while not the greatest unit in the game have a few builds that can make them into monstrous CC monsters vs marines with MOS or MOK. With that point Dark Apostles while again aren't the best of units are basically mini-kharns and should be given something due to the fact that if fielded with MOK cultists are utterly terrifying.
Question: Why are TS and KBs under troops?
Suggestion: Put Chaos Termies under elites, like the loyalist scum I would rather have 7 cultists in a combat than 1 of these worthless abominations.
Statement: Sorry for putting your post under such scrutiny, but with CSM awful can go to over 9000 levels and we most focus to understand the true level of terrible.
dragoonmaster101 wrote: Question: Who in the warp-frenzied world said that Plague Marines and Noise Marines are terrible units? Also, Warp Talons, while not the greatest unit in the game have a few builds that can make them into monstrous CC monsters vs marines with MOS or MOK. With that point Dark Apostles while again aren't the best of units are basically mini-kharns and should be given something due to the fact that if fielded with MOK cultists are utterly terrifying.
Question: Why are TS and KBs under troops?
Suggestion: Put Chaos Termies under elites, like the loyalist scum I would rather have 7 cultists in a combat than 1 of these worthless abominations.
Statement: Sorry for putting your post under such scrutiny, but with CSM awful can go to over 9000 levels and we most focus to understand the true level of terrible.
1: Units listed on this thread are not necessarily terrible, they are listed here because we rarely every see them. Other units can be very fluffy, but not very competitive, another reason why they would be listed here.
2: I listed units only as they were told to me, are TS and KB no longer troops? Can they not be troops? if so, let me know and I will list them appropriately.
Pathfinders work alright offensively if you use dark strider
Drone squads are deadly with a commander + controller.
Vespid aren't bad if your meta is mostly space marines. The problem with all the fast attack isn't that they are bad, but that they have to compete with path finders
Hammer heads are fine IMO
Stealth suits aren't bad, just they can't compete with crisis suits or rip tides. Why get a unit if good troops when a specialized unit or an op riptide are options?
Sniper drones don't suck they just have to compete with a lot and cost way to much money
Fire warriors are okay IMO, but I can see why Poole don't like them. I think they depend on your list, and you can do a lot with them.
There are very few bad units in the tau codex, so much so that the okay units have a hard time competing with the good ones
And the winner is... CHAOS SPACE MARINES!! Man these guys are popular to pick on hahaha, just kidding. There is a lot of flavor in that codex that rarely sees the light of day. Which brings us to the next poll, which unit(s) to use?!
That's it everyone...THE CHOICE IS MADE... the coming of Gozer, er, I mean...the unit and faction has been chosen, stay tuned for the next episode coming this Wednesday!
I can add grey knights, but they will likely have to be added to the space marine bunch. There are just too many space marine factions to divide them all up.
If you have ideas for underused units in grey knights, give em to me and Ill add them!
Wait what? Im confused, I simply want you to tell me what sections the units you mentioned are from, troops, HQ, etc so I can update the front page and place them correctly. If space marines were to be chosen, then I would borrow the codex and get to work.
Special mention to Special Characters, Stern and Crowe are not considered particularly good, as Stern has Sanctuary but is out shined by Grandmasters and Librarians, while Crowe is fluffy yet saddled with bad rules.
Alright guys and gals, THE INTERNET HAS SPOKEN!!! The chosen faction, is once again, ORKS!!! Now tell us, which unit would you like to see as the theme of the list?
Also, disclaimer, obviously we screw up rules left and right, in this particular episode I did not realize a plane could not fly on and off in the same turn, so my bad...
Also, disclaimer, obviously we screw up rules left and right, in this particular episode I did not realize a plane could not fly on and off in the same turn, so my bad...
I must say...your podcast may be the best 40k podcast i've ever listened to. It's almost too short, but I'm not going to complain about such a great product. Awesome job producing a super positive podcast!
Voidwraith wrote: I must say...your podcast may be the best 40k podcast i've ever listened to. It's almost too short, but I'm not going to complain about such a great product. Awesome job producing a super positive podcast!
Thanks so much man! That really means a lot to us! (so me and my buddy arent just a couple of idiots giggling about ideas and stuff)
Seriously, I am glad you guys like it. I can talk to my bud about the length, don't you worry!
Chaos Space marines have once again stolen the field!
Oh! Then I think a Lost and Confused army would be in order. A chapter gone rogue ... maybe? They just worship the Big E so hard, they sprout tusks and summon Angels.
Hey! Listened to the new episode on my way to work this morning. This was CLEARLY your best work (although I may be biased ...).
Loved the list. I will be hitting up eBay on my lunch break today to see if I can get some more Shrikes. I really want to run this! Also - to your question about frequency - I would LOVE to hear you guys more than once a month!
Tycho wrote: Hey! Listened to the new episode on my way to work this morning. This was CLEARLY your best work (although I may be biased ...).
Loved the list. I will be hitting up eBay on my lunch break today to see if I can get some more Shrikes. I really want to run this! Also - to your question about frequency - I would LOVE to hear you guys more than once a month!
Thanks! Im glad you liked the episode! Yeah, that list in the current meta is TERRIFYING. Like, I dont know what most marine list would do against that...or eldar...or most things...
As for the more than once a month, thanks for the feedback! We should be getting that in order soon so stay tuned!
Fabius Bile can net you a bunch of s5/6 space marines. Pair it with infiltration and you're good to go
Anywayz, it's a lot of work to make some of all the listed stuff worth it and each of them requires a separate article. Search for Vespids/Flayed ones/Nobs in the tactical thread. But generally, it's all doable.
Meaning you either need to get lucky with your warlord roll or take Huron/Ahriman. So you're either going for a 30% chance to get infiltrate as your trait randomly or you're paying 165/230 points for that benefit and your 2nd HQ slot. And now you also can't chargee if you get 1st turn. Yeah, that's not what we call workable.
It IS workable when you build an army around infiltrate. And that's basically how you make most of the units work. They should fit the theme. I've seen such lists doing great - especially vs gunlines or other mellee units. Infiltrate gives you ability to overwhelm a single chosen flank. That's a huge tactical advantage and you pay for it accordingly.
Could you give a list example of how this idea of yours is put to use against eldar for example?
So we are doing something a little different this time...we are ABUSING OUR POWER AND PULLING AN EXECUTIVE DECISION!!! I know, I know, despicable, but it cannot be helped. There is one unit we have wanted to talk about for a long time and NOW WE SHALL!
Ironically, close combat tau is something I have been considering for a long time. Unfortunately, with the new book, they made it much more difficult as you cant take the members of the 8 separately now...
Ironically, close combat tau is something I have been considering for a long time. Unfortunately, with the new book, they made it much more difficult as you cant take the members of the 8 separately now...
will consider....
I posted a close combat oriented Tau list based on a band of rogue Yojimbo Samerai in the armies forum called the Host of the Rising Sun.
Ironically, close combat tau is something I have been considering for a long time. Unfortunately, with the new book, they made it much more difficult as you cant take the members of the 8 separately now...
will consider....
I posted a close combat oriented Tau list based on a band of rogue Yojimbo Samerai in the armies forum called the Host of the Rising Sun.
What can I say? I like themes. And musicals.
SJ
Yeah it was sad that they forced the eight into one formation....ugg, but at least they gave farsight enclaves access to reg tau gear. Meaning a full CC commander is actually viable, iridium, neuro, etc, and a fusion blade!!
So I didn't think anything would be able to top the Shryke list ... then you led into the new list with "Ork version of Stormsurge" and I thought BS! And then you completely blew my mind!
Tycho wrote: So I didn't think anything would be able to top the Shryke list ... then you led into the new list with "Ork version of Stormsurge" and I thought BS! And then you completely blew my mind!
IMO this was the best list yet! Great show!
Wow, thanks so much! Glad you liked it, as soon as the idea popped into my head...and I thought of the name...I was like, this MUST be a thing hahaha
Also, sorry for the delayed response guys, but the new episode is OUT!!!
I realize you guys are drowning in requests, but there are a few dark eldar items I'd love to see an episode about (as you handled Mandrakes quite well).
* Court of the Archon-centric list. People talk about using them to avoid bringing a proper HQ in the name of venom spam, but I feel like there are some real gems in there.
* Incubi. I love their models and fluff, but people seem to be really down on them. I splash them into a list alongside Drazhar, but I'd like to see what you guys do with them.
* Wyches. Wych cults in general have trouble these days, but I'd like to see what you can do with wyches and their more expensive counterparts: blood brides.
Wyldhunt wrote: I realize you guys are drowning in requests, but there are a few dark eldar items I'd love to see an episode about (as you handled Mandrakes quite well).
* Court of the Archon-centric list. People talk about using them to avoid bringing a proper HQ in the name of venom spam, but I feel like there are some real gems in there.
* Incubi. I love their models and fluff, but people seem to be really down on them. I splash them into a list alongside Drazhar, but I'd like to see what you guys do with them.
* Wyches. Wych cults in general have trouble these days, but I'd like to see what you can do with wyches and their more expensive counterparts: blood brides.
Noooo problem!!! I always love a challenge, and Dark Eldar are one of my favorite factions. Their 5th edition book was just such a gem, it is a shame they lost so much flavor with their current book but oh well... And don't be afraid to suggest anything, we are always open to suggestions!
Suggestions taken under advisement.... stay tuned!
Noooo problem!!! I always love a challenge, and Dark Eldar are one of my favorite factions. Their 5th edition book was just such a gem, it is a shame they lost so much flavor with their current book but oh well...
Couldn't agree more! The new book fixed a few things, but the 5th edition book is probably the most evocative codex I've ever purchased! Can't wait to hear the next show!
Wyldhunt wrote: I realize you guys are drowning in requests, but there are a few dark eldar items I'd love to see an episode about (as you handled Mandrakes quite well).
* Court of the Archon-centric list. People talk about using them to avoid bringing a proper HQ in the name of venom spam, but I feel like there are some real gems in there.
* Incubi. I love their models and fluff, but people seem to be really down on them. I splash them into a list alongside Drazhar, but I'd like to see what you guys do with them.
* Wyches. Wych cults in general have trouble these days, but I'd like to see what you can do with wyches and their more expensive counterparts: blood brides.
I would second that, there are a lot of cool units which are just not seen because "Venom spam" seems to be accepted norm in this meta.
I would also add Beastmasters, just don't see anyone use them. Would you not like to see some Space Marines torn to shreds by a bunch of wild animals.
Wyldhunt wrote: I realize you guys are drowning in requests, but there are a few dark eldar items I'd love to see an episode about (as you handled Mandrakes quite well).
* Court of the Archon-centric list. People talk about using them to avoid bringing a proper HQ in the name of venom spam, but I feel like there are some real gems in there.
* Incubi. I love their models and fluff, but people seem to be really down on them. I splash them into a list alongside Drazhar, but I'd like to see what you guys do with them.
* Wyches. Wych cults in general have trouble these days, but I'd like to see what you can do with wyches and their more expensive counterparts: blood brides.
I would second that, there are a lot of cool units which are just not seen because "Venom spam" seems to be accepted norm in this meta.
I would also add Beastmasters, just don't see anyone use them. Would you not like to see some Space Marines torn to shreds by a bunch of wild animals.
I LOVE beastmasters, I have long debated a list with tons of them...just the idea of them is sooo cool and unique to the army.
Glad you liked it!! Dark Eldar is always a fickle mistress, the army can be extremely rewarding, but it plays very much like 4th edition Tau...One wrong move and it is over
Thanks so much, it's perfect!
I've fallen in love with the lore behind the Thunder Warriors. The prototype Space Marines that the big E used to conquer Earth. The lore is all over the place for them. My favorite version is that they are to a Space Marine what a Space Marine is to a Guardsman. Been looking for a way to build an army around them and thought using them as counts-as Dreadnoughts would fit. Contemptors work even better.
This list is straight up tailor made for that! Will begin working on this now.
Thanks again.
PourSpelur wrote: Thanks so much, it's perfect!
I've fallen in love with the lore behind the Thunder Warriors. The prototype Space Marines that the big E used to conquer Earth. The lore is all over the place for them. My favorite version is that they are to a Space Marine what a Space Marine is to a Guardsman. Been looking for a way to build an army around them and thought using them as counts-as Dreadnoughts would fit. Contemptors work even better.
This list is straight up tailor made for that! Will begin working on this now.
Thanks again.
That's great! I cannot emphasize how much, post recording we were both like " I REALLY want to play this list, it is just a hard rock to SO MANY SCISSORS in the meta right now"
I've been loving the recent episodes, guys! If you find an opening in your schedule, I'd love for you to do a theme list revolving around craftworld Iybraesil. I've been trying out different ways to run my own Iybraesil force as a fluffy, casual counterpoint to my more competitive eldar, but it's tricky to make a list revolving around Howling Banshees work well.
In case you aren't especially familiar with Iybraesil, the main points about them are...
*They're matriarchal and tied to the Morai-Heg (mother of banshees).
*They're big on reclaiming lost treasures from the crone worlds.
*They're big on howling banshees.
I'd love to see what you do with a fluffy-but-effective Iybraesil list. Bonus points if you find a way to mix in the Avatar (he buffs banshees well) while preventing him from getting shot to pieces before he reaches combat.
Wyldhunt wrote: I've been loving the recent episodes, guys! If you find an opening in your schedule, I'd love for you to do a theme list revolving around craftworld Iybraesil. I've been trying out different ways to run my own Iybraesil force as a fluffy, casual counterpoint to my more competitive eldar, but it's tricky to make a list revolving around Howling Banshees work well.
In case you aren't especially familiar with Iybraesil, the main points about them are...
*They're matriarchal and tied to the Morai-Heg (mother of banshees).
*They're big on reclaiming lost treasures from the crone worlds.
*They're big on howling banshees.
I'd love to see what you do with a fluffy-but-effective Iybraesil list. Bonus points if you find a way to mix in the Avatar (he buffs banshees well) while preventing him from getting shot to pieces before he reaches combat.
Oooohhhh it is definitely the end times...HAHAHAHA, of COURSE we can fit you in! CHALLENGE ACCEPTED, actually to be quite honest, we both are BIG fans of Banshees, the no S4 and no assault vehicles just really REALLY hurts them. The second problem can be solved with allies, but the first, in a world of T5+ is a brutal dilemma...I should have to dive deep into the brown library for this one!
Glad you guys like it, Dark Heresy is mad fun...but super hard...I have no idea how we are succeeding in it hahahahah. ALSO!!!! if you guys have any ideas or wants for Arena, grudgematches, rivalries, etc, then let us know, and we will make it happen!
Excellent episode, keep them coming! Only bad part is we have to wait a week for the next one, haha. (First need to catch up with FNQ)
The amount of times I get characters simultaneously kill each other is far to often, truly the chaos god of dice rolls likes mocking both my friends and myself.
Loved the Ghazzy VS Old Man grudge match! You can't ask for a more dramatic ending than that!
It also occurred to me that our friend the inquisitor might not have been the only one yoinked into the arena without realizing it. He probably had some manner of henchmen retinue that will be wondering where he's at (he probably had the keys to the ship's ignition). I kind of love the idea of a henchmen VS court of the archon fight. Customizable specialist squad vs customizable specialist squad. Flagellants versus sslyth! Lhameans versus assassins! Medusae versus guardsmen!
Of course, it also occurs to me that it's all too easy to give the henchmen the advantage in terms of shooting (poison is basically strength 3 against toughness 3 models), and many of the court options really want to be getting into melee. Giving each side a transport is iffy because a court can't really pop a chimera.
Maybe run a court vs henchmen fight as a kill team style game where each model is doing their own thing? It might be hard to keep a running commentary going on so many distinct models, but I love the mental image of it!
LOVED THE EPISODE, GUYS! Sadly, I currently have a measly 18ish banshees, so it will take a while for my force to be fully bulked up. In the interrum, I think I might flesh out my force with some wraith lords (former banshee exarchs) to draw attention away from the avatar. Also, a weird, gimmicky option in the interrum is to use the second avatar model that I have because reasons in the same force as the first, the fluff being that the forces of Iybraesil, as hunters of ancient relics, stumbled across an abandoned shard of Khaine that was slowly being corrupted by the forces of Khorne. Before the khorne forces could corrupt the shard utterly, the eldar managed to push them back. So now they have a spare shard of khaine that's probably not safe to take back home to the craftworld, so they keep its war spirit burning by leading it form one battlefield to another, sometimes alongside their own avatar.
And in case you're screaming, "you can't do that," I'll point out that the Avatar is not, in fact, a "unique" unit meaning I can take multiples of them within an eldar warhost. I find that the Avatar has a bad habit of dying on me, so having several of them running around with all those banshees will give me some redundancy!
We are so glad you liked it! If that is true, then outside of ITC rules, having multiple avatars would be a great way to extend the army's survival and damage.
Have you gentlemen heard about the new weather satellite, the Geostationary Operational Environmental Satellite- R series?
That's right. GOES-R is sitting in the inky darkness above, watching you...
Thanks again for doing the Contemptors list a while back, piecing it together right now.
As for the arena, have you considered Ogryn?
Ogryn vs Nobs
Ogryn vs Chaos Chosen
Ogryn vs Math
Anything would work. Thanks again for all the things you guys do!
PourSpelur wrote: Have you gentlemen heard about the new weather satellite, the Geostationary Operational Environmental Satellite- R series? That's right. GOES-R is sitting in the inky darkness above, watching you... Thanks again for doing the Contemptors list a while back, piecing it together right now. As for the arena, have you considered Ogryn? Ogryn vs Nobs Ogryn vs Chaos Chosen Ogryn vs Math Anything would work. Thanks again for all the things you guys do!
For the next arena match Saint Celestine Vs. Callidus Assassin
Both have template weapons, crazy initiative and weapon skill both are around the same points cost and both are ladies. Would be a very interesting match.
PourSpelur wrote: Have you gentlemen heard about the new weather satellite, the Geostationary Operational Environmental Satellite- R series?
That's right. GOES-R is sitting in the inky darkness above, watching you...
Thanks again for doing the Contemptors list a while back, piecing it together right now.
As for the arena, have you considered Ogryn?
Ogryn vs Nobs
Ogryn vs Chaos Chosen
Ogryn vs Math
Anything would work. Thanks again for all the things you guys do!
Ogryns vs Grotesques would be a interesting match up, similar stats and fairly close on points.
PourSpelur wrote: Have you gentlemen heard about the new weather satellite, the Geostationary Operational Environmental Satellite- R series?
That's right. GOES-R is sitting in the inky darkness above, watching you...
Thanks again for doing the Contemptors list a while back, piecing it together right now.
As for the arena, have you considered Ogryn?
Ogryn vs Nobs
Ogryn vs Chaos Chosen
Ogryn vs Math
Anything would work. Thanks again for all the things you guys do!
Ogryns vs Grotesques would be a interesting match up, similar stats and fairly close on points.
Oooooo, that is an interesting one, ogryn have range and saves, but grotesques roll a few instant deaths and it will end quickly, I like it!!
Hi again, guys! I'm still work on getting together all those banshees from my last list request, but I've found myself shooting longing glances towards my Irrilyth and shadow spectres exarch models lately. I've been wanting to bite the bullet and purchase some of the forgeworld aspect warriors for a while now (so I can finally use Irrilyth and give my exarch a shrine to lead), but I can't seem to pull the trigger.
Think you can toss together a fun, flavorful shadow spectres-centric list so I have an excuse to finally purchase and play this exotic eldar unit?
Wyldhunt wrote: Hi again, guys! I'm still work on getting together all those banshees from my last list request, but I've found myself shooting longing glances towards my Irrilyth and shadow spectres exarch models lately. I've been wanting to bite the bullet and purchase some of the forgeworld aspect warriors for a while now (so I can finally use Irrilyth and give my exarch a shrine to lead), but I can't seem to pull the trigger.
Think you can toss together a fun, flavorful shadow spectres-centric list so I have an excuse to finally purchase and play this exotic eldar unit?
That is a tall order sir, asking us to put together a themed list....HOW DARE YOU!?!?
Cool. I wish I'd dropped the suggestion a little sooner because a lot of your proposed death jester shenanigans would actually work even better with shadow spectres on the table (check out that specter of death rule).
Also, quick correction on the recent episode: I'm pretty sure Slaanesh's number is actually 6 rather than 7. That said, 7 is an important number for eldar. Check out the story about Rakarth requesting Tau "guests" during the Taus' first run in with the true kin as an example.
That aside, awesome episode, guys! I loved seeing the reaper launcher+ spider pack combo put to use. Plus, I'm a sucker for my beloved hawks A Maugan Ra + Baharroth tag team was actually my main list when I was first starting out.
Wyldhunt wrote: Cool. I wish I'd dropped the suggestion a little sooner because a lot of your proposed death jester shenanigans would actually work even better with shadow spectres on the table (check out that specter of death rule).
Also, quick correction on the recent episode: I'm pretty sure Slaanesh's number is actually 6 rather than 7. That said, 7 is an important number for eldar. Check out the story about Rakarth requesting Tau "guests" during the Taus' first run in with the true kin as an example.
That aside, awesome episode, guys! I loved seeing the reaper launcher+ spider pack combo put to use. Plus, I'm a sucker for my beloved hawks A Maugan Ra + Baharroth tag team was actually my main list when I was first starting out.
Thanks!!! and GAH I believe you are correct about the numbers, but man it is so hard to keep track of all of it hahahahaha.
The newest episode of Arena is up! This will be our sendoff episode for 7th edition, and what could be better than the suggested grudge-rematch of papa smurf Marneus VS the swarmlord!?!?!
And if you listen to us on itunes, please leave us a rating and review, with chaos everywhere, the galaxy split in two, need those reviews to break through the psychic chatter!
Love this cast. Look forward every month. Please do primaries marines versus a carnifex. And please discuss the problem wit heavy vehicles in eighth being stuck and unmovable and unable to shoot when surrounded by gretchin...
jeff white wrote: Love this cast. Look forward every month. Please do primaries marines versus a carnifex. And please discuss the problem wit heavy vehicles in eighth being stuck and unmovable and unable to shoot when surrounded by gretchin...
Thanks so much!
We will look into that matchup...it might just be....possible...
Also, the vehicles getting stuck thing is something we have discussed A LOT since the books dropped, we are looking into a solution to pass on to GW.
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