This isn't really news, but seems to have grabbed people's attention in some other threads, so I figured I'd make a thread to stop others veering off topic.
Evidence is here..
Initial rumours are for a direct only release, with a price of US$470-490, which is somewhere around £300.
When they say biggest dragon they've made, dyou reckon they're including the Citadel Imperial Dragon from the 80's? That thing was like over 2' long and wide.
Just got these off images but yeah; THIS IS NOT SMAUG, this is an old Citadel dragon. And yeah as Platuan4th says below, you needed to build the wing membranes yourself from foil.
I just searched the FW site for 'dragon' and this looks to be the biggest. I don't think it's significantly larger than the GW High Elf dragon or the Terrorghiest, but I think it is slightly bigger.
Yeah I think so too. The Magma dragon also looks quite big. They used to have a Fire Dragon or something which was pretty big, bigger than either of those I think (and was somewhere between £100-200 iirc). They also had a big two headed Chaos dragon as well. But it doesn't look like they make them anymore.
Definitely bigger, but I still think falls far short of Smaug-Ian dimensions, if they're even half serious about honouring appropriate scale.
I'm assuming Smaug will be plastic, but if he's direct only then it could be a FW produced resin item, perhaps even that stuff that the Void Shield Generator was made of?
As a big Dragon fan (I think you can tell from the user name ), I'm excited for this model. I'll probably never buy it since I have no interest in playing Hobbit, but I really want to see that bad boy
Well, as context, that Cang model is offered (but out of stock) in the CMON for $250, and this is a small volume, resin model, so won't be cheap to manufacture and stands 24" tall to the wing tip.
It is impossible for a Smaug model to be even remotely to scale with the rest of the Hobbit figures.
Based on the model height of Bilbo in the 'Riddles in the Dark' set (22mm), in which Bilbo is upright, and Bilbo's height in the movie (4'2") we have a scale of roughly 1mm of model height for every 57.7mm of film height.
The very smallest estimation of Smaug's film length is 60m, and the largest 141m. This puts a to scale model of Smaug as being between 1.04m and up to 2.44m long. That's between 3'5" to 8' long for a to scale Smaug!
GW are not producing a to scale Smaug, that is at minimum 3 feet long.
Either, Smaug is not sized according to the film, or this dragon is not Smaug.
Automatically Appended Next Post: It could be a display model. Perhaps of the scene in which Smaug's head is buried beneath treasure whilst Bilbo leans on the pile, cut off at some point in the neck.
God In Action wrote: It is impossible for a Smaug model to be even remotely to scale with the rest of the Hobbit figures.
Based on the model height of Bilbo in the 'Riddles in the Dark' set (22mm), in which Bilbo is upright, and Bilbo's height in the movie (4'2") we have a scale of roughly 1mm of model height for every 57.7mm of film height.
The very smallest estimation of Smaug's film length is 60m, and the largest 141m. This puts a to scale model of Smaug as being between 1.04m and up to 2.44m long. That's between 3'5" to 8' long for a to scale Smaug!
GW are not producing a to scale Smaug, that is at minimum 3 feet long.
Either, Smaug is not sized according to the film, or this dragon is not Smaug.
Automatically Appended Next Post: It could be a display model. Perhaps of the scene in which Smaug's head is buried beneath treasure whilst Bilbo leans on the pile, cut off at some point in the neck.
Difficult? Yes.
Impossible? No.
A 3ft long Smaug, considering we already have models comfortably in the 2ft range, is eminently possible, especially as it won't be a 3ft long stick but is likely to be curled and posed, and the Smaug style of dragon is quite serpentine and not massively bulky.
There's also supposedly rules in the WD, so a display model is unlikely at this point.
God In Action wrote: It is impossible for a Smaug model to be even remotely to scale with the rest of the Hobbit figures.
Based on the model height of Bilbo in the 'Riddles in the Dark' set (22mm), in which Bilbo is upright, and Bilbo's height in the movie (4'2") we have a scale of roughly 1mm of model height for every 57.7mm of film height.
The very smallest estimation of Smaug's film length is 60m, and the largest 141m. This puts a to scale model of Smaug as being between 1.04m and up to 2.44m long. That's between 3'5" to 8' long for a to scale Smaug!
GW are not producing a to scale Smaug, that is at minimum 3 feet long.
Either, Smaug is not sized according to the film, or this dragon is not Smaug.
Automatically Appended Next Post: It could be a display model. Perhaps of the scene in which Smaug's head is buried beneath treasure whilst Bilbo leans on the pile, cut off at some point in the neck.
Difficult? Yes.
Impossible? No.
A 3ft long Smaug, considering we already have models comfortably in the 2ft range, is eminently possible, especially as it won't be a 3ft long stick but is likely to be curled and posed, and the Smaug style of dragon is quite serpentine and not massively bulky.
There's also supposedly rules in the WD, so a display model is unlikely at this point.
What two foot models do we have? The Thunderhawks? It just seems so unlikely as to verge towards impossible. Presuming you mean something like the Thunderhawk (I don't know the actual length of it) they are £411 and if two feet long, a three foot Smaug would mean that GW have produced a model 50% larger than even their largest, for about 25% less money- and all in a game which has a far smaller player base and far smaller demand!
Automatically Appended Next Post: And remember that the 60m estimation (equivalent to a 3 foot model) is less than half the size actually suggested by the makers of the film themselves, which is far closer to the 130-140m range.
So to be truly in scale with the film depiction we're looking at an 8 foot model.
Well, the Reaver Titan must be in the ball park, the CMON Dragon I've already posted is stated as 24" tall, maybe the T.Hawk...
My point was that stating it is impossible for a scale Smaug to be in the offing, when large models already exist and GW have stated it is their biggest ever dragon (and, admittedly a long time ago, produced a dragon in metal that was quite substantial) and are charging what is rumoured to be an order of magnitude more than the existing largest dragon made by anyone to my knowledge means that "impossible" is not really an assertion that holds water right now.
I'm in no way saying that I'm anticipating a 5ft model, I'm just saying the evidence doesn't exist yet to dismiss it, especially if they've gone plastic.
Besides, there's a massive variation in the scales of Smaug (no pun intended) so they could pick 'a' scale and be correct. The book version is apparently around 25m I've read recently.
I read on the One Ring forum that he will be in plastic. Not saying it's true, but I think that would make sense from at least a stability and modelling PoV if not a financial one; being lighter, they could do far more with the posing ect.
Very fair point about the book version, that's entirely plausible and points to a model roughly 1'5" long.
Or perhaps it will just be a representation of a 140m Smaug, just a foot cut off at the ankle, a few feet across and representing Smaug way above the table
Paradigm wrote: I read on the One Ring forum that he will be in plastic. Not saying it's true, but I think that would make sense from at least a stability and modelling PoV if not a financial one; being lighter, they could do far more with the posing ect.
It makes a lot of sense from GW's POV too, once the moulds are machined (a process that has gotten a lot cheaper in recent years apparently, and GW own their own kit) then the labour is much less than painstakingly casting enormous resin components with all the time, miscasting and wear and tear on silicone moulds that involves, they probably only need to sell a relative handful to recoup their costs, then they can sell them, should they choose to, for all time with little further investment. Factor in that some LotR collectors may be relative modelling novices who may be put off by a resin kit (hell, I'm a 25 year vet and work with resin probably 50% of the time, and I'd be intimidated) but more comfortable with plastic and it makes a lot of sense.
Hence we're almost definitely getting a resin Smaug!
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God In Action wrote: Very fair point about the book version, that's entirely plausible and points to a model roughly 1'5" long.
Or perhaps it will just be a representation of a 140m Smaug, just a foot cut off at the ankle, a few feet across and representing Smaug way above the table
We could be getting it simply because GW said they would do it when pitching for the licence before they realised that these films would not be the massive cash machine that LoTR was
and if it's in the contract then they have to go through with it
(plus making the 'biggest' dragon around would suit a company that believes it's the biggest and the best)
Well if I can't get my hands on Smaug for what ever reason, I guess there is always the Legion of Everblight Archangel. He is pretty big, but I guess still only half the size of how Smaug should be.
Smaug is large, but as others have pointed out, not bulky. I think the largest kit GW currently makes is either the Stompa or the Baneblade. How many prues are in those?
I can see a Baneblade sized sprue containing a complete wing, plus some misc. parts. One sprue for the head, and a couple feet. Then 5 sprues for the body and tail. Add in one more sprue for misc. parts or spikes or something.
That would only be about 8-9 sprues to get a truly large Smaug of at least 30 inches long.
It seems a bit absurd to invest in models like this when they could release a plastic thunderhawk that people would be falling over to buy - and for many years after the Hobbit is forgotten (probably in about February once it leaves the cinemas).
A lot of people buying this, if it is as rumoured, will be speculators hoping to use it as an investment, as happened with the very limited void generator.
In the Hobbit II special edition they talk about the development of Smaug and how he kept getting bigger and bigger, until the final version which is about the size of 2 747 planes.
.... One does recall however that there were all those rumours about Forgeworld taking over the LOTR/HObbit line....
..wonder if maybe that was a misunderstanding relating to a possible FW release of Smaug ?
Had mamzel Carden sculpting all those monsters didn't they ? Practising maybe ?
Maybe, but they don't normally put prices for FW stuff in White Dwarf, but the prices are in the upcoming WD. Not that that means anything when it comes to GW however.
@azrael13: yeah 100mm base seems about right for the Heresy dragon, but I think he's done that for the pose mainly. He's quite hunched over. His wings however are MASSIVE. Definitely look capable of carrying the beast into the air unlike some of the other models you see out there.
Howard A Treesong wrote: It seems a bit absurd to invest in models like this when they could release a plastic thunderhawk that people would be falling over to buy - and for many years after the Hobbit is forgotten (probably in about February once it leaves the cinemas).
I agree with this. I hate how many sprues are devoted to one army (Another dreadnought? Another tactical squad?) but the Thunderhawk Gunship is such an iconic part of the setting that I'd be perfectly happy to see it made. And mechanical units are better suited to such kits than organic special characters, anyway.
The Heresy dragon is also still back-ordered as it has been for years, and is likely to be for some time yet. However, I'll agree the sculpt is one of my favorites!
The Cang model from CMON is similar, with a somewhat lithe body and Massive wings. Saw it in person and snapped a pic a few years ago:
Spoiler:
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Looking forward to seeing this Smaug model, though! If it's anything like the movie version, it should be stunning.
Daemonslave wrote: The base is actually three CD's glued together, which is 120mm. If you'd like a pic of my dragon next to a particular mini, let me know :-)
24" tall as posed...if you spread it out to take proper measurements the head/body/tail would be just shy of 34" long and the wingspan would be about 30". It is big.
Few years back, while at Wonderfest, I saw a garage kit for the remade Godzilla monster (not the newest one...the one from the 1990s). Limited to 250 copies. Cost $1000 per. Stood up to my shoulder (didn't have a tape measure...but that made it at least 5 feet tall). I have heard of some bigger ones coming out of the Japanese market (not even getting into the actual rubber suit replicas).
A company who was so motivated, could make one to the ridorkulous size of the movie Smaug to scale for gaming figures. Wouldn't have much actual use (can't exactly move something that big around a gaming table). Much more for the collectors than for the gamers.
Could be a scenario and you have to sneak around him to get the Arkenstone or something? Smaug wouldn't have to move much. It's just either gonna be ridiculously out of scale and overpriced, or ridiculously big and impractical gaming wise.
Daemonslave wrote: The base is actually three CD's glued together, which is 120mm. If you'd like a pic of my dragon next to a particular mini, let me know :-)
How about next to a Hobbit-sized model?
I don't own any hobbit miniatures so I'm not sure exactly what size they are but here's a few models for reference;
Since the hobbit movie was confirmed, I've eagerly anticipated a Smaug model. This one is pushing the boundaries of what I'm willing to spend. I assumed it would be $150-$200, but at this price, it's iffy to say the least.
That said, I have pretty much loved all of the LotR/hobbit minis GW has out out, and I feel like I'm going to love this, and if I do...well, at least I'll still be able to play games with him long after GW have dropped the line.
I've been wanting a GW Smaug ever since I saw his gorgeous self in the movie, so I'm quite looking forward to this. However, even if it isn't Smaug, a giant dragon model would make me happy.
Do you guys think it's fair to assume that as the base is clearly from the initial confrontation with Bilbo, that the rumour that it was meant for release alongside DoS and not Five Armies but got canned for not being up to scratch could now be considered confirmed?
Azreal13 wrote: Do you guys think it's fair to assume that as the base is clearly from the initial confrontation with Bilbo, that the rumour that it was meant for release alongside DoS and not Five Armies but got canned for not being up to scratch could now be considered confirmed?
Oh! That is a very good point and certainly matches up with that rumor. Looking at the releases for DoS and onward, the miniatures seem to have taken a further plunge in quality, and I think NewLine finally got tired of the crap when GW probably offered them a derpy-looking dragon.
Azreal13 wrote: Do you guys think it's fair to assume that as the base is clearly from the initial confrontation with Bilbo, that the rumour that it was meant for release alongside DoS and not Five Armies but got canned for not being up to scratch could now be considered confirmed?
I'd say so.
I'd also hazad a guess that that base is only the one a Knight uses so he isn't actually that big and certainly not worth more than $160 or so.
I'm also going to say that the pic isn't great but his face is far more derpy than scary. Though that might just be the new line design GW has to work with.
Any rumours about material yet? The price and the solidness of the base make me think finecast over plastic, which tells me GW plan on maybe selling 6 worldwide, and would make sense as a webstore exclusive.
Azreal13 wrote: Do you guys think it's fair to assume that as the base is clearly from the initial confrontation with Bilbo, that the rumour that it was meant for release alongside DoS and not Five Armies but got canned for not being up to scratch could now be considered confirmed?
I'd say so.
I'd also hazad a guess that that base is only the one a Knight uses so he isn't actually that big and certainly not worth more than $160 or so.
I'm also going to say that the pic isn't great but his face is far more derpy than scary. Though that might just be the new line design GW has to work with.
Any rumours about material yet? The price and the solidness of the base make me think finecast over plastic, which tells me GW plan on maybe selling 6 worldwide, and would make sense as a webstore exclusive.
I can see my IK from here, and if I extend my tablet to arms length so the base in the pic matches the size of the IK base, it looks like an exact fit, Bilbo would be about the right size.
So, by this highly precise and scientific method, I declare the base IK sized!
Man talking about this is actually reminding me, I need to scour GWs webstore for old LotR models that are still metal. I can't imagine them still selling either line by the middle of next year.
Well, it's Games Workshop...so no, probably not. Means they don't have to get off their asses and make more than a handful of them and that's a-okay for them.
Maybe they never actually tooled the moulds and that one is the master. They're betting the cheapest option to fulfill their contract with new line is to be sure no one ever buys one.
Accolade wrote: Alas, it saddens me how GW snuffed LOTR/Hobbit out as a popular-ish gaming system. Seeing that dwarf set at $190 just made me shake my head.
Well, I'm sure GW will be glad when the Hobbit is over and they can gut the game off their fancy new website.
I agree with this. Does anyone even play LOTR or the Hobbit anymore? And in terms of size, that's not a justification of the price! I mean, this thing is not made of silver or some rare mineral where it has intrinsic worth because you have MORE of it. In reality, that just means you're going to have a real struggle storing or transporting it....and what are you going to DO with it? I mean, how many games involving a massive dragon can you work in, when you consider that for the same price you could pretty much get a whole new army?
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Desubot wrote: So is the base solid gold or what because i cant see it being worth anything near 400.
Ha! We must have been writing at the same time. It's not made of Silver OR Gold...
Azreal13 wrote: Do you guys think it's fair to assume that as the base is clearly from the initial confrontation with Bilbo, that the rumour that it was meant for release alongside DoS and not Five Armies but got canned for not being up to scratch could now be considered confirmed?
Possibly. The late decisions to turn the Hobbit into 3 movies over 3 years rather than 2 movies over 2 years, then 3 movies over 2.5 years screwed up everyone's merchandising plans though, so could be down to that.
willb2064 wrote: Possibly. The late decisions to turn the Hobbit into 3 movies over 3 years rather than 2 movies over 2 years, then 3 movies over 2.5 years screwed up everyone's merchandising plans though, so could be down to that.
Moving from 3 movies in 2.5 years to 3 years should have given them more time.
Azreal13 wrote: Do you guys think it's fair to assume that as the base is clearly from the initial confrontation with Bilbo, that the rumour that it was meant for release alongside DoS and not Five Armies but got canned for not being up to scratch could now be considered confirmed?
Surely it is, with Bilbo hiding under his claw on the right-hand side of the picture. Also, doesn't look like this is designed as a "in play" model, but more for show as a diorama. In other words, it's not a gaming model, it's a display piece.
willb2064 wrote: Possibly. The late decisions to turn the Hobbit into 3 movies over 3 years rather than 2 movies over 2 years, then 3 movies over 2.5 years screwed up everyone's merchandising plans though, so could be down to that.
Moving from 3 movies in 2.5 years to 3 years should have given them more time.
The studio has a 2+ year lead time. Pretty much everything was already completed and staff moved on to other projects (or in the case of the Perry's, left the company).
willb2064 wrote: Possibly. The late decisions to turn the Hobbit into 3 movies over 3 years rather than 2 movies over 2 years, then 3 movies over 2.5 years screwed up everyone's merchandising plans though, so could be down to that.
Moving from 3 movies in 2.5 years to 3 years should have given them more time.
The studio has a 2+ year lead time. Pretty much everything was already completed and staff moved on to other projects (or in the case of the Perry's, left the company).
Except for the stuff that Peter Jackson had to add to stretch out two movies to three.
Well I really can't tell by just the picture but so far I am a bit disgruntled. I had high hopes that he would be standing on a pilar or flapping his wings angrily, not just sitting there lazily. That is not worth almost $500...
Seeing the actual model might change my mind some but since its a direct only model I doubt I ever will.
jonolikespie wrote: Man talking about this is actually reminding me, I need to scour GWs webstore for old LotR models that are still metal. I can't imagine them still selling either line by the middle of next year.
They pulled the LOTR casualties a couple of weeks ago. Those were still metal. So if you want a direct order only model that's still metal, get it quick before it's gone forever.
i like everything about the sculpt, except the head...
hopefully a different angle will show a head that looks more menacing, because this pick shows a very bland looking face...
the size is impressive, though...
happy to see it is actually been made, and didn't turn out to be a rumor...
can't say i'm tempted to buy him...
i'd rather paint Cang...
jonolikespie wrote: I haven't actually seen it mentioned here but there is a different photo making the rounds which is the same page but includes more of the text.
It lists him as 'resin' the same way all finecast is now labeled as 'resin'.
jonolikespie wrote: I haven't actually seen it mentioned here but there is a different photo making the rounds which is the same page but includes more of the text.
It lists him as 'resin' the same way all finecast is now labeled as 'resin'.
I don't think you'll be able to spin-cast something this big unless it comes in hundreds of pieces. There's a possibility it'll be vacuum cast and come in one of the FW resins. But I'd want to poke at one in the flesh, so to speak, before comitting to that. It's online only though, so I'll never find out.
I would also guess it'll be a limited quality release especially as casting that sized resin model will be time consuming so it would be next to impossible to try before you buy as they'll likely sell out of him the moment he goes up for pre order.
Looky Likey wrote: I would also guess it'll be a limited quality release especially as casting that sized resin model will be time consuming so it would be next to impossible to try before you buy as they'll likely sell out of him the moment he goes up for pre order.
I think you're overestimating the amount of interest in the Hobbit.
Looky Likey wrote: I would also guess it'll be a limited quality release especially as casting that sized resin model will be time consuming so it would be next to impossible to try before you buy as they'll likely sell out of him the moment he goes up for pre order.
I think you're overestimating the amount of interest in the Hobbit.
I think with Goblin town GW over estimated the amount they would sell so they made far too many. They won't make the same mistake with Smaug unless the deal with New Line dictates that GW must make at least x many.
Smaug is going to be difficult and time consuming to cast in resin, no way are they going to be making thousands upon thousands of him. I'm also counting on scalpers buying a big chunk of these to resell on ebay, I hope they catch a cold with it though as I hate scalpers.
Accolade wrote: Alas, it saddens me how GW snuffed LOTR/Hobbit out as a popular-ish gaming system. Seeing that dwarf set at $190 just made me shake my head.
Well, I'm sure GW will be glad when the Hobbit is over and they can gut the game off their fancy new website.
I agree with this. Does anyone even play LOTR or the Hobbit anymore? quote]
Yep! Its a great little system and useable for so many types of game. I tend to make my stuff using historical models rather than GW's offerings, but I have a few here and there.
Best thing GW could do at the moment is complete the range and then leave the game alone, seeing as its all in place already. Tinkering rules endlessly will only end up with 7th edition 40K.
Herzlos wrote: I think unless they are numbered LE's, the scalpers are going to be staying away.
If it's getting hard to shift Space Hulk, people aren't going to want to sit on £100's worth of Smaugs.
That said, I can see them casting maybe 100 of them to satisfy the license and selling out pretty quickly.
My guess is it'll depend on the numbers cast, I can see this being very limited numbers for a number of reasons. This is a very different proposition from Goblin Town and even Space Hulk as this has appeal, if the face isn't as goofy as the low res pic makes it look, as a display piece outside of the hobby and a gaming piece for the tiny of number who still play LotR. Not many would buy with Goblin Town or Space Hulk as a display piece.
I can't see GW wanting to do a proper LE again for models, it makes it harder to re release the exact same model later in the EU as we have laws about LE numbering that GW have been burnt over in the past.
Very true, this will be more collectible, but bear in mind it's still a unassembled kit that almost no-one is going to know about. It's more likely to be put on display than GOblin Town, but it's less likely to be bought by collectors/film fans as a display piece than the Weta version which is already painted and is a (numbered?) limited edition of 2000.
jmpnfool wrote: I would kill for some scale here. I love playing rings, its by far my favorite GW game, and will be adding this monstrosity to my shelves!
That thing on the right of the base is likely to be Bilbo. Not that it helps with scale too much, but it's big.
Even if they stop supporting the system I hope they don't stop making and selling the models. Even if it's just on-line. Some of them are lovley. I'm using LOTR minatures for Song of Blades and Heroes and really enjoy painting them.
jmpnfool wrote: I would kill for some scale here. I love playing rings, its by far my favorite GW game, and will be adding this monstrosity to my shelves!
That thing on the right of the base is likely to be Bilbo. Not that it helps with scale too much, but it's big.
LuciusAR wrote: Even if they stop supporting the system I hope they don't stop making and selling the models. Even if it's just on-line. Some of them are lovley. I'm using LOTR minatures for Song of Blades and Heroes and really enjoy painting them.
I hope they do drop the LOTR entirely, so that someone else can pick up the franchise and do it properly. That would be amazing.
LuciusAR wrote:Even if they stop supporting the system I hope they don't stop making and selling the models. Even if it's just on-line. Some of them are lovley. I'm using LOTR minatures for Song of Blades and Heroes and really enjoy painting them.
I'm using them for D&D and there are some that are just amazing for it.
Herzlos wrote:I hope they do drop the LOTR entirely, so that someone else can pick up the franchise and do it properly. That would be amazing.
That actually would be amazing if handled reasonably well.
As for Smaug himself, I can't see it selling at all. It's only appeal at this point is to older hobbyists who can afford it and are massively into the Hobbit game, and honestly I doubt there are very many of them left after the poor support for the last 3 years. Collectors will have no interest in this as it will be finecast. I do enjoy collecting models that I know I'll never game with but I don't want his head faceplanting into my shelf on the first hot day.
I have to say, from that one pic, I'm a little underwhelmed. The pose is far less dynamic than I was expecting, basically a straight line from head to tail; I was hoping for/expecting something curled round or rearing up, more like the Weta one from a few weeks back.
I'll reserve full judgement until I've seen if of it, but at this point I'm not overly irate that there is no way I can afford this.
Unfortunately, I expect this Hobbit supplement in WD next week to really be the last rules support for The Hobbit (not a huge issue as the rules are fine and complete as they are), and we won't see any releases after Feb next year at the latest. While there's not really a lot more they can add to the line, I hope it remains on sale for a good while longer; it will be a shame when the system finally goes.
But then, there never was much hope. Only a fool's hope...
That thing on the right of the base is likely to be Bilbo. Not that it helps with scale too much, but it's big.
That actually just makes it around 4-5" to the shoulder. 'Big' compared to WHFB dragons, but not particularly big.
I get closer to 8" at the shoulder comparing the photo to the hobbits I have on my shelf.
I think the model looks fantastic. Easilly worth the same amount as a similar sized model, like a Baneblade or Stompa for example. I'd even pay a premium for the licence. Pity GW is rumoured to be charging 3 times that much for him though.
Other companies are capable of producing miniatures, you know?
But it's specifically the GW range of minis that I want to remain available.
Agreed. While there are companies I am sure could do the licence justice, such as Knight Models, Red Box Games or even CB in terms of sculpt quality, the vast majority of the GW range, particularly the LotR stuff, is pretty much perfect. Outstanding attention to detail, great sculpting, they weren't just miniatures, they we're everything that made the movies great, but in 28mm. I'd go so far as to say that the LotR line is possibly the best GW produced. Maybe not as technical as the 40k or WFB stuff, or as varied, but taken as they are, pretty much perfect.
Well, so far all I know is that it's impossible to fething make out anything from that bloody awful photo.
What, the feth, is wrong with GW? Every single time, these pics get leaked before the official ones, and every single time the initial impact is disappointing because you are having to view from a shaky hand-held camera phone shot that was taken in the Polish printer's toilet.
"Oh well it shouldn't get leaked, we need to build a fortress moat" or whatever else other crap they come out with, doesn't make a scrap of difference. Do they realise how much damage it is doing to their new launches, that the first we see of anything is equivalent of looking through a fish aquarium from 20 yards?
It really, really angers me... OK sorry about that, rant over!
Wowzers. I was hoping it'd really have been £135, which I could have stomached with a 20% discount. But £295 (I'm reading that correctly aren't I?) direct only is a no go.
That thing on the right of the base is likely to be Bilbo. Not that it helps with scale too much, but it's big.
That actually just makes it around 4-5" to the shoulder. 'Big' compared to WHFB dragons, but not particularly big.
I get closer to 8" at the shoulder comparing the photo to the hobbits I have on my shelf.
I think the model looks fantastic. Easilly worth the same amount as a similar sized model, like a Baneblade or Stompa for example. I'd even pay a premium for the licence. Pity GW is rumoured to be charging 3 times that much for him though.
What height do you make Bilbo to be?
It looks like about 5 Bilbo's to the shoulder, and I'd assumed he was only about an inch tall (being a hobbit in a 25mm human game)
Yeah except that (to me at least) is not worth the price tag they've given it. GW's actually looks better than that..
@RiTides: If you wanted that in ACTUAL bronze, the price goes WAY UP to £3,754.37/US$5,900.00/€4,468.00 (and if you're a New Zealander you really get your pants pulled down at NZ$7,064.00) apparently cause it's a made to order item!
As someone who read the book I'd say the wetanz sculpt looks better. As far as dragon designs go, I'm sure something even better is out there somewhere, but as far as buying the thing for its sentimental value, of course I'm going to go with the original. I should really read The Hobbit again...
Quarterdime wrote: As someone who read the book I'd say the wetanz sculpt looks better. As far as dragon designs go, I'm sure something even better is out there somewhere, but as far as buying the thing for its sentimental value, of course I'm going to go with the original. I should really read The Hobbit again...
As someone who read the book and has seen Tolkien's illustrations, I can tell you that WETA's Harry-Potter-4-style "bat-dragon" with wings attached to the forelegs isn't terribly true to the book. Also, still no talking Wargs making fun of Orks
Quarterdime wrote: As someone who read the book I'd say the wetanz sculpt looks better. As far as dragon designs go, I'm sure something even better is out there somewhere, but as far as buying the thing for its sentimental value, of course I'm going to go with the original. I should really read The Hobbit again...
As someone who read the book and has seen Tolkien's illustrations, I can tell you that WETA's Harry-Potter-4-style "bat-dragon" with wings attached to the forelegs isn't terribly true to the book. Also, still no talking Wargs making fun of Orks
Quarterdime wrote: As someone who read the book I'd say the wetanz sculpt looks better. As far as dragon designs go, I'm sure something even better is out there somewhere, but as far as buying the thing for its sentimental value, of course I'm going to go with the original. I should really read The Hobbit again...
As someone who read the book and has seen Tolkien's illustrations, I can tell you that WETA's Harry-Potter-4-style "bat-dragon" with wings attached to the forelegs isn't terribly true to the book. Also, still no talking Wargs making fun of Orks
That doesn't sound anything like this
Spoiler:
I think that's the point that W/Wolf was making, that he thinks Weta have gone away from Tolkien's vision. (IMHO, for better or worse depends on your personal taste in Dragons...)
I hope they do drop the LOTR entirely, so that someone else can pick up the franchise and do it properly. That would be amazing.
Only if they also picked up the existing miniature line, but I can't see GW selling it to anyone else.
GW spent over ten years making LOTR the best miniatures line ever made, from 2001 to the end of 2012, and no one will be able to top that, not even themselves.
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LuciusAR wrote: Even if they stop supporting the system I hope they don't stop making and selling the models. Even if it's just on-line. Some of them are lovley. I'm using LOTR minatures for Song of Blades and Heroes and really enjoy painting them.
Better buy them quickly. Over half of the line has been discontinued over the past year.
I hope they do drop the LOTR entirely, so that someone else can pick up the franchise and do it properly. That would be amazing.
Only if they also picked up the existing miniature line, but I can't see GW selling it to anyone else.
GW spent over ten years making LOTR the best miniatures line ever made, from 2001 to the end of 2012, and no one will be able to top that, not even themselves.
As I understand it, the LOTR rules were written by Allessio Cavatore, so there is no-one left at GW responsible for the LOTR range being the success it was. But there's no reason those same people couldn't bring it back.
Just think what would happen if the Perry Brothers or Warlord took over the license. Then you'd have mini's at least as good, by the people who were involved in making it successful without GW management to price it into oblivion.
GW spent over ten years making LOTR the best miniatures line ever made, from 2001 to the end of 2012, and no one will be able to top that, not even themselves.
As I understand it, the LOTR rules were written by Allessio Cavatore, so there is no-one left at GW responsible for the LOTR range being the success it was. But there's no reason those same people couldn't bring it back.
Just think what would happen if the Perry Brothers or Warlord took over the license. Then you'd have mini's at least as good, by the people who were involved in making it successful without GW management to price it into oblivion.
Rick Priestley, actually, was the main rules designer.
What would happen is the minis would be subpar, or differently scaled, or of inconsistent quality compared to the Citadel figs. There's not enough interest any longer. There's no reason for anyone to spend the money on a license and then millions and millions of dollars on simply recreating steel molds for plastic miniatures that already exist. Who here would buy MORE uruk-hai? I have 400 uruk-hai infantry already.
The pose is a bit underwhelming. It's also odd to see such a collectible figure with such a premium price, cast in such an inferior material. You usually get that with knock offs, not the real thing.
Agreed on the pose being underwhelming, would have liked to see his wings extended and a more threatening approach.
As it stands he looks like hes just bellowing out a bad word.
Naughty Dwagon.
I've said it before and I'll say it again: I don't really understand the pedantic no-overlap definition between 'dragon' and 'wyvern' in people's minds. Not when there's so much else to be pedantic about, like how few people can put an ounce of convincing realism or originality in either dragons or wyverns (or drakes, or wyrms, or serpents, or...). Is it a D&D thing or what?
Movie Smaug is one of the better dragon designs I've seen for a while, thanks again to John Howe I'd imagine, even if it's not enough to make me go see another PJ travesty. And no offence to the Professor, fanboy of whom as I am, but he wasn't much on the illustration side of things. (I do think it's interesting that his Smaug, familiar from a lot of Hobbit covers, look a bit like a stretched, red alligator with wings and ears. Seriously though, lookit the long, flat, square skull with raised eye bumps and protruding teeth...)
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ImAGeek wrote: It's a shame. I'd be interested in getting into LotR now, but not when i know support will completely dry up within the year.
Personally, I'm buying up GWLotR orcs and dwarves, just 'cos they look nice compared to gorillorcs, punch-goblins and kneeless dwarfs from elsewhere (inc. WHFB), deciding on which historical plastics to use for Rohan and maybe Gondor, and running them through Mayhem's unit builder rules for mass battles.
Unfortunately my mental image of Smaug has never recovered from the old Rankin Bass/ Tatsunoko animated Hobbit film from ages past.
Has anyone ever made a model of similar design?
Gawd damn I loved me that movie. I had an old read along record (as well as the soundtrack on record) that I played the crap out of on my old Fisher Price portable record player.
GW spent over ten years making LOTR the best miniatures line ever made, from 2001 to the end of 2012, and no one will be able to top that, not even themselves.
As I understand it, the LOTR rules were written by Allessio Cavatore, so there is no-one left at GW responsible for the LOTR range being the success it was. But there's no reason those same people couldn't bring it back.
Just think what would happen if the Perry Brothers or Warlord took over the license. Then you'd have mini's at least as good, by the people who were involved in making it successful without GW management to price it into oblivion.
Rick Priestley, actually, was the main rules designer.
What would happen is the minis would be subpar, or differently scaled, or of inconsistent quality compared to the Citadel figs. There's not enough interest any longer. There's no reason for anyone to spend the money on a license and then millions and millions of dollars on simply recreating steel molds for plastic miniatures that already exist. Who here would buy MORE uruk-hai? I have 400 uruk-hai infantry already.
Priestly is also working elsewhere now.
Why would mini's sculpted by potentially the same people, in the same material, with rules written by the same people, automatically become inferior if they were made under a different company?
The LOTR interest has died off a bit compared to the glory days before GW dropped the ball, but what makes you think people wouldn't be interested in picking it up at Perry*/Warlord prices?
I hear it's a good game and I'd probably get into it if I could get Perry sculpted figures (metal/plastic) at Perry prices.
*Good friends with PJ too, though I don't know if that'd help them with the licensing.
Of course, in 6 months, or shortly after the disc versions are released, whichever is later, the licence to this will become, if not exactly worthless, certainly not anywhere near as valuable.
I certainly could find it plausible that it would drop sufficiently that a small, motivated outfit could obtain and operate it.
Haven't the Perrys basically said they'd only ever do historicals outside of GW?
But personally, I'd have no interest in new LotR models even if they were sculpted the same and basically identical; it's just unnecessary. What I find stupid is that, at least in terms of LotR, pretty much ever range was complete and every model had rules (and vice versa) before GW started retiring sets, when if they'd just left them for sale, even in a very limited cast-on-demand manner, they would basically never have to touch the game again and could just let the money roll in with no cost beyond materials. Instead, they've pulled easily half the sets, and the game is therefore actively going backward. I don't need expansion, but GW are literally wasting their own work by retiring good minis.
I have a suspicion my girlfriends bought me that for Christmas. If not I'm gonna pick it up after Christmas, to go with my Hobbit movie books, the big ones with all the concept art and stuff in. Those books are awesome.
I have a suspicion my girlfriends bought me that for Christmas. If not I'm gonna pick it up after Christmas, to go with my Hobbit movie books, the big ones with all the concept art and stuff in. Those books are awesome.
You mean the Chronicles ones? Yeah, those are really awesome, I have the first two and the the third is on preorder, although apparently it has some big spoilers for the new film so I'm waiting until I see the movie. But thanks to Xmas postal delays, it's not scheduled to arrive until the 30th anyway, so it shouldn't be a problem.
Yep those ones. I have the first and second, and I think my mums getting me the third. But it's not out til the 17th anyway and I'll be getting it for Christmas, and I'm seeing the film on the 13th so ill be fine I love those books though.
Paradigm wrote: Haven't the Perrys basically said they'd only ever do historicals outside of GW?
But personally, I'd have no interest in new LotR models even if they were sculpted the same and basically identical; it's just unnecessary. What I find stupid is that, at least in terms of LotR, pretty much ever range was complete and every model had rules (and vice versa) before GW started retiring sets, when if they'd just left them for sale, even in a very limited cast-on-demand manner, they would basically never have to touch the game again and could just let the money roll in with no cost beyond materials. Instead, they've pulled easily half the sets, and the game is therefore actively going backward. I don't need expansion, but GW are literally wasting their own work by retiring good minis.
Yeah, this company really baffles me sometimes. I personally feel like upper management honestly looks with disdain at the LOTR stuff these days.
It seems like they had this expectation that since LOTR sold so well the first time, that would it would sell just as well even when they raised the costs by a HUGE margin...that and not bother with any of the advertising they did the first time! Now, the fact that the Hobbit hasn't been as much of a success has had a significant impact on GW's sales for sure, but you'd think GW took this news like a grumpy child with unreasonable expectations, and they've been putting in the bare minimum ever since.
EDIT: I will say that when the Hobbit came out I was actually looking pretty hard at the tabletop game, since I wanted a fantasy game but didn't feel the desire to invest in a 40k-size equivalent in WHFB. I knew LOTR had great rules and the warriors of Dale looked pretty great, but then I started seeing how expensive everything else was and I backed out.
GW spent over ten years making LOTR the best miniatures line ever made, from 2001 to the end of 2012, and no one will be able to top that, not even themselves.
As I understand it, the LOTR rules were written by Allessio Cavatore, so there is no-one left at GW responsible for the LOTR range being the success it was. But there's no reason those same people couldn't bring it back.
Just think what would happen if the Perry Brothers or Warlord took over the license. Then you'd have mini's at least as good, by the people who were involved in making it successful without GW management to price it into oblivion.
Rick Priestley, actually, was the main rules designer.
What would happen is the minis would be subpar, or differently scaled, or of inconsistent quality compared to the Citadel figs. There's not enough interest any longer. There's no reason for anyone to spend the money on a license and then millions and millions of dollars on simply recreating steel molds for plastic miniatures that already exist. Who here would buy MORE uruk-hai? I have 400 uruk-hai infantry already.
Why would mini's sculpted by potentially the same people, in the same material, with rules written by the same people, automatically become inferior if they were made under a different company?
The LOTR interest has died off a bit compared to the glory days before GW dropped the ball, but what makes you think people wouldn't be interested in picking it up at Perry*Warlord prices?
I hear it's a good game and I'd probably get into it if I could get Perry sculpted figures (metal/plastic) at Perry prices.
*Good friends with PJ too, though I don't know if that'd help them with the licensing.
What if the people who play (or collect) Lord of the rings are fan of Lord of the rings and not fan of GW, http://www.mithril.ie/ makes some very good LOR mini's they could make miniatures that are compatible with the LOR games
GW spent over ten years making LOTR the best miniatures line ever made, from 2001 to the end of 2012, and no one will be able to top that, not even themselves.
As I understand it, the LOTR rules were written by Allessio Cavatore, so there is no-one left at GW responsible for the LOTR range being the success it was. But there's no reason those same people couldn't bring it back.
Just think what would happen if the Perry Brothers or Warlord took over the license. Then you'd have mini's at least as good, by the people who were involved in making it successful without GW management to price it into oblivion.
Rick Priestley, actually, was the main rules designer.
What would happen is the minis would be subpar, or differently scaled, or of inconsistent quality compared to the Citadel figs. There's not enough interest any longer. There's no reason for anyone to spend the money on a license and then millions and millions of dollars on simply recreating steel molds for plastic miniatures that already exist. Who here would buy MORE uruk-hai? I have 400 uruk-hai infantry already.
Priestly is also working elsewhere now.
Why would mini's sculpted by potentially the same people, in the same material, with rules written by the same people, automatically become inferior if they were made under a different company?
The LOTR interest has died off a bit compared to the glory days before GW dropped the ball, but what makes you think people wouldn't be interested in picking it up at Perry*/Warlord prices?
I hear it's a good game and I'd probably get into it if I could get Perry sculpted figures (metal/plastic) at Perry prices.
*Good friends with PJ too, though I don't know if that'd help them with the licensing.
What if the people who play (or collect) Lord of the rings are fan of Lord of the rings and not fan of GW, http://www.mithril.ie/ makes some very good LOR mini's they could make miniatures that are compatible with the LOR games
Call me old fashioned - but I actually prefer the Mithril figures and have been collecting them since long before GW had even thought about doing a LotR game.
Their Smaug (well - one of several they do) is pretty impressive for a metal miniature - about a foot long with a 9" wingspan...weighs a good pound and a half too, but it is an older design for a dragon and is showing its age.
GW spent over ten years making LOTR the best miniatures line ever made, from 2001 to the end of 2012, and no one will be able to top that, not even themselves.
Judge, not sure if you're being sarcastic here, but do you really feel that the GWLOTR line was really that good, to warrant that praise?
Because I (and I suspect a lot of other people) must respectfully disagree....
Personally, I always found the quality, sculpts, and poses to be very average (admittedly, maybe because of the scale).
GW spent over ten years making LOTR the best miniatures line ever made, from 2001 to the end of 2012, and no one will be able to top that, not even themselves.
Judge, not sure if you're being sarcastic here, but do you really feel that the GWLOTR line was really that good, to warrant that praise?
Because I (and I suspect a lot of other people) must respectfully disagree....
Personally, I always found the quality, sculpts, and poses to be very average (admittedly, maybe because of the scale).
I didn't like the LOTR models when I first saw pictures, but after I bought a few I really fell in love with them. I find them to be much better than GW's 40k and WHFB offerings in a lot of ways, having some nice true scale models really made me dislike the terrible bobblehead scale WHFB/40k models. The 40k/WHFB obviously squeeze more detail on to faces but at the cost of such horrible proportions and the detail per mm is often better on the LOTR models anyway so they look (IMO) better when you're actually holding them in your hand.
That said I wouldn't go as far as saying someone couldn't do better.
I wasn't sure if I should post this or not, but I've been watching this guy on deviantArt that makes models. He has a website, and recently finished one that's relevant to this thread: http://www.geenemodels.com/dragon-kit/
Spoiler:
I can't really tell how big it is, and there aren't any dimensions listed that I can see, but it's three pounds worth of resin if that means anything. He has a "dragon" bust that's apparently 21 inches long, and there's a picture in his deviantArt gallery of the model painted and posed with the bust in the same pic.
It's hard to say for certain without seeing more pics of the GW kit, but I personally think this dragon kit is a lot larger than GW's, and the cost is slightly more reasonable. Personally though I think I'd be way more interested in that 4-foot-long velociraptor if I had the money.
GW spent over ten years making LOTR the best miniatures line ever made, from 2001 to the end of 2012, and no one will be able to top that, not even themselves.
Judge, not sure if you're being sarcastic here, but do you really feel that the GWLOTR line was really that good, to warrant that praise?
Because I (and I suspect a lot of other people) must respectfully disagree....
Personally, I always found the quality, sculpts, and poses to be very average (admittedly, maybe because of the scale).
I can't speak for Judge, but personally I agree with his sentiments entirely! I would call LotR (not so much the Hobbit) the best, most complete line GW have ever produced. Better proportions and good sculpts are one thing, but when you consider those sculpts actually have to represent real actors and specific props/designs at 28mm truescale, and most of the time succeed, then it's pretty amazing what was achieved. No, they don't have the options of other GW kits, or some of the variety, but honestly, they don't need that.
As for that other dragon, I think it's much better than the GW one (saw it a few days ago before Smaug leaked) and is larger/cheaper. Unless you want to pay £60ish more for a scared Bilbo and scenic base, the choice is clear.
Paradigm wrote: I would call LotR (not so much the Hobbit) the best, most complete line GW have ever produced. Better proportions and good sculpts are one thing, but when you consider those sculpts actually have to represent real actors and specific props/designs at 28mm truescale, and most of the time succeed, then it's pretty amazing what was achieved.
As for that other dragon, I think it's much better than the GW one (saw it a few days ago before Smaug leaked) and is larger/cheaper. Unless you want to pay £60ish more for a scared Bilbo and scenic base, the choice is clear.
That's a fair point - think we'll just have to chalk any disagreement up to personal taste in models, but I do note that other posters have mentioned hobbyist collectors of the LOTRGW minis.
Agree with some of the above sentiments, the LoTR (well, perhaps 'Middle Earth line would be more appropriate) are some of the best miniatures GW have ever done. What's also important is that they presented a different sculpting style and aesthetic to people who wanted to buy GW stuff, away from the 'everything turned up to 11' approach of current 40k/WFB stuff.
They were also very reasonably priced for a time, certainly when the first LoTR box sets came out, I think they probably got a lot of younger gamers on board for that reason (and it piggy-backed perfectly off the back of the movie releases).
The problem is now that the range will become a self-fulfilling prophecy - they are too expensive, the new movies haven't caused the earthquake that LoTR brought, no advertaising campaigns, and so they haven't sold well. So, the range is reduced, prices go up, less people play .. and sales go down, range is reduced etc. etc.
GW spent over ten years making LOTR the best miniatures line ever made, from 2001 to the end of 2012, and no one will be able to top that, not even themselves.
Judge, not sure if you're being sarcastic here, but do you really feel that the GWLOTR line was really that good, to warrant that praise?
Because I (and I suspect a lot of other people) must respectfully disagree....
Personally, I always found the quality, sculpts, and poses to be very average (admittedly, maybe because of the scale).
I do not know of a range that has consistently such good quality, or such a high percentage of sculpts that are top-tier. Not sure what figures you have, but I've got absolutely massive Gondor, Harad, and Isengard armies (thousands of figures).
I am also a fan of realistic sculpting; I know many people do not like Perry-style sculpts such as LOTR because they are more proportionally sculpted.
Sidstyler wrote: I wasn't sure if I should post this or not, but I've been watching this guy on deviantArt that makes models. He has a website, and recently finished one that's relevant to this thread: http://www.geenemodels.com/dragon-kit/
Spoiler:
I can't really tell how big it is, and there aren't any dimensions listed that I can see, but it's three pounds worth of resin if that means anything. He has a "dragon" bust that's apparently 21 inches long, and there's a picture in his deviantArt gallery of the model painted and posed with the bust in the same pic.
Now that is a lovely dragon! It is a pricey model, but to me that seems to be much closer to value for dollar than the GW model.
GW spent over ten years making LOTR the best miniatures line ever made, from 2001 to the end of 2012, and no one will be able to top that, not even themselves.
Judge, not sure if you're being sarcastic here, but do you really feel that the GWLOTR line was really that good, to warrant that praise?
Because I (and I suspect a lot of other people) must respectfully disagree....
Personally, I always found the quality, sculpts, and poses to be very average (admittedly, maybe because of the scale).
I do not know of a range that has consistently such good quality, or such a high percentage of sculpts that are top-tier. Not sure what figures you have, but I've got absolutely massive Gondor, Harad, and Isengard armies (thousands of figures).
I am also a fan of realistic sculpting; I know many people do not like Perry-style sculpts such as LOTR because they are more proportionally sculpted.
As someone who never bought a single LOTR model I agree. If Mantic, or any other company, had a fantasy range with the breadth, depth and consistent quality of the LOTR range then they would be dominating that market.
While I can appreciate that it represented a huge number of additional SKUs for GW, smothering it to death with price hikes is a short sighted move.
GW spent over ten years making LOTR the best miniatures line ever made, from 2001 to the end of 2012, and no one will be able to top that, not even themselves.
Judge, not sure if you're being sarcastic here, but do you really feel that the GWLOTR line was really that good, to warrant that praise?
Because I (and I suspect a lot of other people) must respectfully disagree....
Personally, I always found the quality, sculpts, and poses to be very average (admittedly, maybe because of the scale).
I do not know of a range that has consistently such good quality, or such a high percentage of sculpts that are top-tier. Not sure what figures you have, but I've got absolutely massive Gondor, Harad, and Isengard armies (thousands of figures).
I am also a fan of realistic sculpting; I know many people do not like Perry-style sculpts such as LOTR because they are more proportionally sculpted.
As someone who never bought a single LOTR model I agree. If Mantic, or any other company, had a fantasy range with the breadth, depth and consistent quality of the LOTR range then they would be dominating that market.
While I can appreciate that it represented a huge number of additional SKUs for GW, smothering it to death with price hikes is a short sighted move.
I also think the switch from metal to Finecast helped kill it for the collectors market. Given the prices I've seen rare metal versions for stuff that then became available in Finecast, it wasn't just price that drove people away.
GW spent over ten years making LOTR the best miniatures line ever made, from 2001 to the end of 2012, and no one will be able to top that, not even themselves.
Judge, not sure if you're being sarcastic here, but do you really feel that the GWLOTR line was really that good, to warrant that praise?
Because I (and I suspect a lot of other people) must respectfully disagree....
Personally, I always found the quality, sculpts, and poses to be very average (admittedly, maybe because of the scale).
I do not know of a range that has consistently such good quality, or such a high percentage of sculpts that are top-tier. Not sure what figures you have, but I've got absolutely massive Gondor, Harad, and Isengard armies (thousands of figures).
I am also a fan of realistic sculpting; I know many people do not like Perry-style sculpts such as LOTR because they are more proportionally sculpted.
Wow, sounds like you really do have a high opinion (and awesome collection) of the LOTR stuff. Funny, isn't it? - they have never attracted me in the slightest (except I did like the Balrog, I must confess.) My personal tastes range more towards RT era and 2nd edition 40K, and anything from Armorcast, Mike Biasi, or any of the older 40K resin model makers.
I've been a giant LOTR nerd since I was a little kid, like lots of us on here. The Hobbit is one of my most treasured novels of all time because it introduced me to fantasy adventure, which has been a massive source of enjoyment to me for decades. I have always wanted to own Thorin's Company, Bilbo, and Smaug in miniature, as well as enough models to fight the Battle of Five Armies.
I love the LOTR range, and have a pretty large Evil force. LOTR Elves are the only ones I am particularly interested in owning.
I should be exactly the target demographic for this release, but instead I look at the price tag and see the guts of a holiday with my girlfriend. It just isn't worth that much. Smaug didn't have to be the BIGGEST DRAGON EVAR, he could have been a beefier, more characterful version of the LOTR dragon and I would have been really happy with it. Now I won't buy it, because there's no way I can justify that price to myself. Shame! This sort of pricing has screwed GW out of a bunch of purchases. There are barely any plastic kits they've released for the Hobbit that I don't at minimum think are pretty good, and many of them are great. But the prices, man, the prices.
Is it just me or does that neck look like its covered in fabric? And didnt the original pic have it in a different pose?
Yep, different pose... Posable Smaug? <.<
I think it's just image artifacts. If they can't make a 28m human posable in finecast, I don't think they'll do it for a dragon. Maybe there's a bit of leeway in the neck and tail, but the arms will be fixed as they'll be taking a lot of the weight.
Yeah the neck looks further in on that one, I think. It could be a bit of trickery though, as I can't imagine they'd paint 2 different ones the same for the WD.
Maybe there's a section missing from the 2nd model.
The new pics do look better... but the head/face doesn't look very expressive. Smaug in the movie looked really expressive... this model just looks kind of... boring. They should have given him a scowl or a grimace or a roar or a smile or a look of intent or anything really.
I don't think it's a different pose, just a different angle of the photo making it seem like the neck is in a different position.
Did some google translating on the text. Italicized my thoughts on untranslated words.
Spoiler:
We have been captives of the figure Smaug was when people brought to the bunker on a White Dwarf team. There are three things that we estomanquees(estimate? noticed?)
1. Le Tresor (The treasure?) , We never saw a treasure as impressive ( or as large ) than the one shown for this figure. It includes thousands of gold pieces , cups , plates , tapes, and a miniature Arkenstone
2. Dragon Skin . Smaug has beautiful be huge , level of detail is unheard of , that shows the texture of its scales . An eye exercises will sour note his chest wound, caused by a Fleche Noire.(Black arrow? Seems to be the spot of scale that's missing, should be jewels, that is the weak spot)
3. Dimension Narrative . The confrontation of Bilbo Baggins with Smaug is one of the most thrilling scenes and this figure describes it to perfection
ImAGeek wrote: Yeah the wound was caused by a black arrow. That's the chink in his armour in the book from what I remember?
Yeah. That's where Bard ends up shooting him, but I don't remember if it was also caused by a previous wound from one of Bard's ancestors or if it's just missing the layer of jewels and gold. Need to go back and read the book again, still picking up lots of little things even after reading it like 10 times. Need to finish Nagash first though.
ImAGeek wrote: Yeah the wound was caused by a black arrow. That's the chink in his armour in the book from what I remember?
Yeah. That's where Bard ends up shooting him, but I don't remember if it was also caused by a previous wound from one of Bard's ancestors or if it's just missing the layer of jewels and gold. Need to go back and read the book again, still picking up lots of little things even after reading it like 10 times. Need to finish Nagash first though.
Book: It's just where the treasure hasn't stuck to him.
Film: Girion glances a hit on him with a Black Arrow from a Wind Lance before Smaug kills him
Yeah, the Black Arrow fired by one of Bard's ancestors removed one of Smaug's scales in the film, in the book I don't think it actually explained where the bare patch came from. There was certainly none of that Windlance nonsense in the book; I'm still holding out hope that Bard kills him with a regular arrow from a regular bow as per the book, that's far more heroic that a lucky shot with arrows fired from a ballista and designed to kill dragons.
And yes, I know there are spoilers out there, but I've avoided them so far, if anyone does know, please keep quiet.
And as for the posability, this is finecast, people! Behold:
Burning Dwarves is tiring and hot work, even for a dragon such as Smaug! Now you too can add this extra layer of character to your mighty beast, with the new and innovative possibilities offered by the revolutionary finecast. Over the course of a game, as even Smaug the Magnificent becomes weary, you will notice that his great from begins to droop, his head, tail and wings sagging over the battlefield as his strength flags. For best results, play your battles on warm days!
Of course, the material is great for experienced modellers as well, and there's so many options in posing that there's nothing to stop you buying two or even three mighty creatures!
Of course, the material is great for experienced modellers as well, and there's so many options in posing that there's nothing to stop you buying two or even three mighty creatures!
Laughing my arse off at this bit lol. What a load of tripe!
I have to say, GW are hard to parody, as they are sometimes so stupid that the best in comedy couldn't beat them at their own game, but sometimes, something like this just called out to be mocked! Glad it was appreciated!
Paradigm wrote: Yeah, the Black Arrow fired by one of Bard's ancestors removed one of Smaug's scales in the film, in the book I don't think it actually explained where the bare patch came from. There was certainly none of that Windlance nonsense in the book
To be fair to the film, shooting a dragon with a ballista like the one in the film seems a lot more reasonable than plinking tiny tiny arrows at him. Still a difficult target to hit regardless of whether you're firing a bow or ballista.
Nope. Just a bare patch where the gems etc didn't become embedded.
It was hubris. The bare patch in the hollow of Smaug's left breast is an expression of the creature's vanity and hubris. It simply is.
"Dazzlingly marvellous! Perfect! Flawless! Staggering!" exclaimed Bilbo aloud, but what he thought inside was: "Old fool! Why there is a large patch in the hollow of his left breast as bare as a snail out of its shell!"
That's all you know about the bare patch in the book. Smaug is an evil dragon, a creation of Morgoth. His chief vices are pride and greed, much the same as Thorin, Thranduil, the Sackville-Bagginses, and even Bard to an extent. It is only Bilbo who resists the temptation of wealth (though one should note he begins the story living a comfortable life of relative leisure). It is only Bilbo who gives up his claim to his share in the dragon's treasure for the good of others. It is Bilbo who gives away the Arkenstone.
The Hobbit is a rather simple story. It has plenty of depth and nuance, but at the end of the day it is a simple story of self-discovery; a coming of age tale that follows a very old pattern. And that is largely what gives it such staying power as a work of fiction.
I've been a giant LOTR nerd since I was a little kid, like lots of us on here. The Hobbit is one of my most treasured novels of all time because it introduced me to fantasy adventure, which has been a massive source of enjoyment to me for decades.
Ma brutha!
Smaug didn't have to be the BIGGEST DRAGON EVAR, he could have been a beefier, more characterful, actually good version of the LOTR dragon
Fixed that for you.
Shame! This sort of pricing has screwed GW out of a bunch of purchases. There are barely any plastic kits they've released for the Hobbit that I don't at minimum think are pretty good, and many of them are great. But the prices, man, the prices.
Yup.
A couple more pics (didn't see them posted yet, apologies if they were)
Still looks pretty good, IMO. Bit iffy about the wing design though, with wing fingers protruding straight out from the side of the hand. Unlike the Deviantart model. What was it like in the movie?
Also, anyone notice the jaw shape of a newly described dinosaur? If the timing was different it could've had an awesome Tolkien-reference name, rather yet another 'chinese-place-name-osaurus from-China'.
Well paint me impressed, I want one but will not be able to afford it or have the space for it. I want it for display purposes that is it's only real purpose but it seems likely this will be axed before I ever get the money (maybe). :(
Paradigm wrote: Yeah, the Black Arrow fired by one of Bard's ancestors removed one of Smaug's scales in the film, in the book I don't think it actually explained where the bare patch came from. There was certainly none of that Windlance nonsense in the book; I'm still holding out hope that Bard kills him with a regular arrow from a regular bow as per the book, that's far more heroic that a lucky shot with arrows fired from a ballista and designed to kill dragons.
Honestly I much prefer the film version... It's pretty absurd that a normal arrow from a normal bow could kill a massive dragon. Just going on the size of the arrowhead vs the thickness of Smaugs body it simply makes no sense.
I hope it isn't! If it was hard plastic, it would be much more attractive. But they don't usually say "advanced modelling skills required" for hard plastic.
Paradigm wrote: Yeah, the Black Arrow fired by one of Bard's ancestors removed one of Smaug's scales in the film, in the book I don't think it actually explained where the bare patch came from. There was certainly none of that Windlance nonsense in the book; I'm still holding out hope that Bard kills him with a regular arrow from a regular bow as per the book, that's far more heroic that a lucky shot with arrows fired from a ballista and designed to kill dragons.
Honestly I much prefer the film version... It's pretty absurd that a normal arrow from a normal bow could kill a massive dragon. Just going on the size of the arrowhead vs the thickness of Smaugs body it simply makes no sense.
Well, Smaug wasn't as gigantic in the book as he is in the film. Extrapolated from Tolkien's drawings, Smaug is about 65 feet in length, which is plenty damn big, of course. For comparison, a Blue Whale is 98 feet in length. A T-Rex is about 40 feet in length. Spinosaurus can be up to about 60 feet in length. Apatpsaurus had an average length of 75 feet. Even at 65 feet, Smaug was a big darn animal.
That said, it does not defy all logic or reason that a lucky shot from a skilled archer could sink an arrow deep enough into Smaug's body to puncture the creature's heart.
Even so, it is a tale of fantasy, and Smaug dies because he is slain by a hero, getting his proper comeuppance for his evil ways. In the grand scheme of the fantastic feats of skill and heroism that occur in Tolkien's works, Bard killing Smaug with a single arrow is certainly a big deal, but it is not the most legendary thing to have been done. Turin's slaying of Glaurung, for example, is comparatively less believable.
Kanluwen wrote: True, but they don't say it for Finecast either...
Maybe it's an actual resin kit? Would explain why Trish Morrison(aka Forge World's resident Monster Sculptor) has been seemingly not doing much.
I really think that it wasn't sculpted by anyone at GW, I reckon the 3D model was simply transferred across from Weta, and perhaps modified slightly for casting/reproduction purposes.
I don't see anything that strikes me as impossible to do in plastic, but I think some for of resin is more likely, and a more labour intensive production method does at least, in part, justify the price tag.
Paradigm wrote: Yeah, the Black Arrow fired by one of Bard's ancestors removed one of Smaug's scales in the film, in the book I don't think it actually explained where the bare patch came from. There was certainly none of that Windlance nonsense in the book; I'm still holding out hope that Bard kills him with a regular arrow from a regular bow as per the book, that's far more heroic that a lucky shot with arrows fired from a ballista and designed to kill dragons.
Honestly I much prefer the film version... It's pretty absurd that a normal arrow from a normal bow could kill a massive dragon. Just going on the size of the arrowhead vs the thickness of Smaugs body it simply makes no sense.
Vermis wrote:It's legendary heroism. Beowulf. Fafnir. St. George. The vorpal blade went snicker-snack. Y'know?
Yeah, exactly my point. The fact it's almost impossible to slay something that big with a single arrow just makes the feat all the more spectacular, and doing the impossible is what heroism is about. It's the same reason that James Bond or Batman are cool and inspiring, because despite being 'ordinary', they do the extraordinary.
Paradigm wrote: I have to say, GW are hard to parody, as they are sometimes so stupid that the best in comedy couldn't beat them at their own game, but sometimes, something like this just called out to be mocked! Glad it was appreciated!
Sinful Hero wrote: Wasn't the LE Void Shield generator made of resin, and not Finecast? Why would this not also be resin like the VSG?
It was polystone resin, the sort of stuff that movie collectibles, garden ornaments etc are often cast from.
Interesting - I had never heard of GW using polystone. Just found out about the material recently, although as you say it's apparently commonly used in some other applications.
No confirmation on what material Smaug is actually made from yet, though, right?
It was an odd one, to be sure. Perhaps an experiment? I guess if we see a range of polystone terrain and fortifications in the next 12 months we'll have our answer.
Sinful Hero wrote: Wasn't the LE Void Shield generator made of resin, and not Finecast? Why would this not also be resin like the VSG?
It was polystone resin, the sort of stuff that movie collectibles, garden ornaments etc are often cast from.
Interesting - I had never heard of GW using polystone. Just found out about the material recently, although as you say it's apparently commonly used in some other applications.
No confirmation on what material Smaug is actually made from yet, though, right?
No, not yet other than "resin" that requires expert modeling skills
That said, it does not defy all logic or reason that a lucky shot from a skilled archer could sink an arrow deep enough into Smaug's body to puncture the creature's heart.
Even so, it is a tale of fantasy, and Smaug dies because he is slain by a hero, getting his proper comeuppance for his evil ways. In the grand scheme of the fantastic feats of skill and heroism that occur in Tolkien's works, Bard killing Smaug with a single arrow is certainly a big deal, but it is not the most legendary thing to have been done. Turin's slaying of Glaurung, for example, is comparatively less believable.
Or Ecthelion killing 3 unnamed Balrogs and Gothmog during the Fall of Gondolin.
Azreal13 wrote: It was an odd one, to be sure. Perhaps an experiment? I guess if we see a range of polystone terrain and fortifications in the next 12 months we'll have our answer.
The Helm's Deep and Minas Tirith wall sets, along with the 40k "Chapel of Sanctuary" that they did around the time of the Eye of Terror event were all polystone.
That said, it does not defy all logic or reason that a lucky shot from a skilled archer could sink an arrow deep enough into Smaug's body to puncture the creature's heart.
Even so, it is a tale of fantasy, and Smaug dies because he is slain by a hero, getting his proper comeuppance for his evil ways. In the grand scheme of the fantastic feats of skill and heroism that occur in Tolkien's works, Bard killing Smaug with a single arrow is certainly a big deal, but it is not the most legendary thing to have been done. Turin's slaying of Glaurung, for example, is comparatively less believable.
Or Ecthelion killing 3 unnamed Balrogs and Gothmog during the Fall of Gondolin.
Ah, but that gets you into the uncomfortable debate about what exactly a Balrog is within Tolkien's fictional universe. Arguably, the Balrogs described in the The Lost Tales/Silmarillion in connection with the fall of Gondolin are somewhat different from the Balrog as described in The Lord of the Rings.
Vermis wrote: It's legendary heroism. Beowulf. Fafnir. St. George. The vorpal blade went snicker-snack. Y'know?
There's legendary heroism, and then there's silliness. Beowulf ripped the arm off a pretty big guy, not a guy the size of the Statue of Liberty. Most of the illustrations of St George's dragon put it around the size of a horse. Movie Smaug is just so insanely big. To me, a ballista bolt to a weak spot strains belief, but a shot with a bow vs something that big is immersion shattering. Also, Tolkein's world is pretty low on the epic heroism scale. Its not like Aragorn is going to knock out Cthulhu with a punch or something.
Bossk_Hogg wrote: Beowulf ripped the arm off a pretty big guy, not a guy the size of the Statue of Liberty.
There was also this. (Scroll down to the 'legacy' bit)
Most of the illustrations of St George's dragon put it around the size of a horse.
Some of them put it around the size of a jack russel too.
Movie Smaug is just so insanely big.
Well you know who to blame. (hint: it's not Tolkien)
Also, Tolkein's world is pretty low on the epic heroism scale. Its not like Aragorn is going to knock out Cthulhu with a punch or something.
See A Town Called Malus' example. Also, Merry and Eowyn vs. wraithbeasts and witch-kings, Bilbo vs. giant spiders, Sam vs. a giant spider, Turin vs. Glaurung, Eärendil vs, Ancalagon the Black, Fram vs. Scatha, Beren and Luthien vs. a fallen silmaril-hoarding archangel, and so on.
it's not one of these 'movies' where the monster gets back up again no matter what happens to it
Dragons flesh is not any denser/robust than any other creatures (although their armoured hide certainly is)
A longbow arrow could certainly achieve deep enough penetration to hit the heart and if the heart has a hole in it then the creature will die (not necessarily immediately), and especially if the arrow was some fancy one (extra weight/sharpness etc),
after all modern bow hunters can put arrows clean through deer and occasionally even bears if it does not hit bone, and they are not using bows of the draw strength of medieval ones (I recall the longbows from the Mary Rose averaged about 110 lb, but could go up to about 180)
There are only 200 Webstore Exclusive Smaug™ miniatures available before christmas. Order yours today and receive a free upgrade to courier delivery, complete with a tracking number for extra peace of mind.
Does that mean there'll be more after Christmas? Also, might just be because it's far away, but the neck and tail look very smooth and undetailed.
Also, I've just noticed that the re print of the end times books don't even come with the slipcase. So they're only £5 cheaper, and they aren't hardback or come in a slipcase. Sorry for off topic, but that's rather annoying.
There are only 200 Webstore Exclusive Smaug™ miniatures available before christmas. Order yours today and receive a free upgrade to courier delivery, complete with a tracking number for extra peace of mind.
And more:
There are only 200 Webstore Exclusive Smaug™ miniatures available before christmas. Order yours today and receive a free upgrade to courier delivery, complete with a tracking number for extra peace of mind.
The mighty fire-drake, Smaug™ is doubtless the largest and most powerful of his kind left in Middle-earth™.
Smaug™ is built upon a stunningly detailed scenic base that depicts the vast treasures of Erebor. The Arkenstone™ and The One Ring can both clearly be seen amongst the gems and gold as Smaug™ looms over the would-be burglar Bilbo Baggins™.
This magnificent 42 piece miniature is hand cast using the highest quality resin (the same used by Forge World), and the most advanced techniques to produce a model with extremely fine detail. Every scale, horn and battle-scar has been expertly reproduced to create a beatifically authentic collectors piece.
Weighing in at 2.4kgs, the height of the miniature from the bottom of the base to the tip of Smaug’s™ wing is 8.4 inches (or 21.4 cm). The base is 9.2 inches (or 23.1 cm) long and 5.4 inches (or 13.3 cm) wide.
Please note: This miniature is not recommended for children under the age of 14. Advanced modelling skills are required. It is supplied unpainted and requires assembly - we recommend using Citadel Super Glue: Thick and Citadel Paints. Some preparation and cleaning will be required prior to painting. Small areas of flash and mould lines will need to be filed or sanded, and larger casting gates will need to be removed before construction.
Automatically Appended Next Post: That's over 5 pounds of resin. Sheeeeit.
There are many, many good reasons to not buy this, but I'm afraid the majority of a tiny number of units will probably be bought by people who probably aren't involved in the wider hobby to appreciate them.
I suspect many people saw "200" of what is, after all, a big deal in the context of the range, and jumped on it.
So they only are selling 200 of them, lol... why even bother (for a company of GW's size). Heresy even sold more dragons than that, although to be fair they haven't Delivered more than that yet
Also, apparently it's just standard resin:
Games Workshop wrote:Smaug™ is made from the same resin as Forge World miniatures.
Smaug was probably made due to the licensing agreement. There are better dragons out there for cheaper, IMO, so I don't understand it. The paint job on the store one looks a bit airbrushed and "fuggedaboudit".
Also, the tactical squads slowly creeping up in price... I thought the Marine one was $38, but now it's $40. The BA one is now $43. You'd think after a year of the biggest volume of releases with this "plan" in mind would have told them it's a bad move.
RiTides wrote: So they only are selling 200 of them, lol... why even bother (for a company of GW's size). Heresy even sold more dragons than that, although to be fair they haven't Delivered more than that yet
Also, apparently it's just standard resin:
Games Workshop wrote:Smaug™ is made from the same resin as Forge World miniatures.
Because this was the initial batch, and it's only being sold via the Webstore.
They are very likely being cast in small runs so that the molds can last longer.
There are only 200 Webstore Exclusive Smaug™ miniatures available before christmas. Order yours today and receive a free upgrade to courier delivery, complete with a tracking number for extra peace of mind.
And more:
There are only 200 Webstore Exclusive Smaug™ miniatures available before christmas. Order yours today and receive a free upgrade to courier delivery, complete with a tracking number for extra peace of mind.
The mighty fire-drake, Smaug™ is doubtless the largest and most powerful of his kind left in Middle-earth™.
Smaug™ is built upon a stunningly detailed scenic base that depicts the vast treasures of Erebor. The Arkenstone™ and The One Ring can both clearly be seen amongst the gems and gold as Smaug™ looms over the would-be burglar Bilbo Baggins™.
This magnificent 42 piece miniature is hand cast using the highest quality resin (the same used by Forge World), and the most advanced techniques to produce a model with extremely fine detail. Every scale, horn and battle-scar has been expertly reproduced to create a beatifically authentic collectors piece.
Weighing in at 2.4kgs, the height of the miniature from the bottom of the base to the tip of Smaug’s™ wing is 8.4 inches (or 21.4 cm). The base is 9.2 inches (or 23.1 cm) long and 5.4 inches (or 13.3 cm) wide.
Please note: This miniature is not recommended for children under the age of 14. Advanced modelling skills are required. It is supplied unpainted and requires assembly - we recommend using Citadel Super Glue: Thick and Citadel Paints. Some preparation and cleaning will be required prior to painting. Small areas of flash and mould lines will need to be filed or sanded, and larger casting gates will need to be removed before construction.
Automatically Appended Next Post: That's over 5 pounds of resin. Sheeeeit.
Note they specifically point out that that its Forgeworld resin used which they describe as 'the highest quality'. As good an admission as any that 'Finecast' is a dog they know isn't good enough for quality casting.
Fair play, he's not lacking the "phwoar!" department either is he? (the head in particular, is rather uber!)
I also recall that Mierce Miniatures have a rather nice dragon (or two!?) but I'm just not in the market for large even more expensive than even GW's larget of models... err, models, myself.
Maybe one day I'll have more money than sense. Or just less sense!
For now I'll just admire from afar and post my admiration on an internet message board!
Angry Slag (the Mierce one) is much cheaper, I'm not sure on RRP as I got mine on the KS, but well under half the two Smaugs. Different order of magnitude though, she's big (100mm base and overhangs it, tall too) but more "big for a gaming piece" rather than "could substitute as the table decoration at Christmas!"
Thraxas Of Turai wrote: And Smaug does look sublime, hopefully a few Dakka posters can blog their experiences with the miniature.
I have to say that it's certainly one of their better-looking minis, though it looks a lot less imposing than the other one I linked to earlier. For a model like this, and especially at that price, they really should have gone to town with it. I'd much prefer a version of Smaug with wings unfurled and standing a little more upright at least...in my opinion the GW model suffers because they tried to squish him down to fit on a base that was too small for him.
His treasure hoard looks a lot cooler than the Weta statue, though, that's for sure. Looks a lot less cheap, you can actually see stuff like coins and chests and apparently even the Arkenstone, instead of a crappy texture repeatedly stamped into a lump of putty.
Anyway, as for Dakka posters blogging their experiences with it...did anyone from Dakka actually get one? It sold out so quickly I imagine most of us wouldn't have had time to react even if we did have the money.
Admittedly only £50 cheaper, but might make the difference.
He is a big one too...for a wyvern.
I haven't had a chance to fully go over that model, but the head is almost 3" long - and when I dry fit the hand/wings on the body it ends up being about a foot from hand to hand with another 6 inches or so of wing that sticks out past that. The body and tail is snaked a good bit but is still well over 2 feet long when posed. Out straight, it would be pretty close to 3 feet of miniature dragon...wings would be about the same if you spread them out fully.
Your local might be getting some still. (Mine is still offering a preorder on it, for less than sticker price) So ask around.
I'm sure demand will determine if they release more runs.
It does surprise me that for all the effort they put in to this model, the wings very much looked like separate pieces glued on. I don't even mean the gap on the left wing, even the right wing looks very much like a separate bit glued on rather than physically being a part of the dragon. Bit disappointing.
Clearly someone's paying for the kit. Sadly, I won't. I can
mitigate hundred dollar kits over time. But to save up for a
single kit? Too rich for my blood.
That might change in the future, but that means I'm not getting
this one now.
Admittedly only £50 cheaper, but might make the difference.
Does anyone know the size specifications for this? If it's not much bigger than the official Smaug model I probably won't bother, however it looks like it could be almost twice the size.
I'm not surprised it sold out as it ticks a lot of boxes for "collectors". I think a fair few will end up on ebay, just hope that people have the good sense to realise that GW will be making more in the new year so don't get ripped off buying one much over RRP.
Its about time GW got its act into gear with this limited run stuff, they need to start tracking what sells well of these limited runs and do another pressing.
It does surprise me that for all the effort they put in to this model, the wings very much looked like separate pieces glued on. I don't even mean the gap on the left wing, even the right wing looks very much like a separate bit glued on rather than physically being a part of the dragon. Bit disappointing.
Should see some of their 40k close up pics. Gaps,mould lines,exposed joints. Kind of reminds me of how I used to put models together as a kid lol
), I'm excited for this model. I'll probably never buy it since I have no interest in playing Hobbit, but I really want to see that bad boy 
That's one of the nicest dragon kits I've seen! Nicer than a recent Weta effort I saw recently.
