The new faction is in fact Ad Mech, Skitarii. As far as I know this is still a ways out, but who knows. There is only troops and elites, with vehicles. Mostly foot soldiers, guys with spider legs, and a couple tank/spider hybrids.
There is also a Dragoon which looks to be a dual kit with a rider on top of a bipedal machine. It has legs similar to the IG sentinels, but has a grafted human in the center of the machine. I am not as fluent in the background with the skitarii as I would like to comment much more.
Updated 24/2
from Harry:
-In No Particular Order-
Adeptus Mechanicus Codex & models (full release)
via Lords of War Gaming:
- April/May
– It’s Admech, but there will be two codices.
- Tanks will be walkers.
From the Birds in the Trees:
The Paper Products
– Codex:Adeptus Mechachanicus Skitarii
– Heraldry/Hobby book
– Ad Mech Datacards (contains no psychic power cards)
The Miniatures
– Ad Mech Skitarii box
– Ad Mech Myrmidon box
– Energy weapon platform/ transport box (combo-kit)
– Legio Cybernetica Colossus/Conqueror box (combo kit)
– Magos Clampack
– Secutor Clampack
Flesh And Steel.
Alan Bligh, Mark Bedford, Edgar Skomorowski, Tony Cottrell
Subject – the Solar Auxilia and the Mechanicum
Initial ‘reveal’ – that an Ordinatus model (BIG!) is work in progress at FW right now… and it will be bigger than a Baneblade!
The Solar Auxilia – aggressive defence tactics, force landings and then defend the beachhead.
The Solar Auxilia are – just like the Legiones Astartes – split in the Horus Heresy… some of them have fought with Horus or other Traitor legions for years/decades… naturally in many cases they have formed tight links with these legions, so in many cases have followed them into treachery.
Looking at the new SA ogryn models:-
ES: This Ogryn design is a kind of halfway house between the Solar Auxilia infantry and tanks.
AB: The Ogryn rules in “Conquest” are WAY toned down from the initial version!
These ogryns are ‘stitched’ into their armour and then switched on – organic killing machines, but deliberately not in the style of the Mechanicum. They actually have an ‘off’ switch on the back of their head! Also a kind of cage on the side of their head to stop them biting the medicae.
Mechanicum:-
MB: John Blanche’s artwork is a major inspiration for the Mechanicum. Tech-priests are the ‘human’ face of the Mechanicum – and there are much, much worse than them yet to be seen. MB wants to do the ‘crazy’ ones… the Mechanicum are the ultimate recycling army, they re-use absolutely everything left laying around after a battle, including body parts. MB likes the creepy guy look.
AB: I have at least one army where I drilled the eyes out! <hangs head in shame, laughter>
MB: The whole look of the Mechanicum is deliberately different from the rest of the Imperial forces… Mech tanks look fragile, but have lots of energy shields instead of armour. They always keep the best stuff for themselves and let the Imperial forces have the lesser gear… Legion Land Raiders, for example, are inferior to the Mech forces.
AB: Must remember that the 30k Mechanicum are NOT the 40k Adeptus Mechanicus. They are a kind of shadow empire, only partially part of the Imperium. The Dark Mechanicum have split off from the main track because they don’t want to obey the rules that have been imposed upon them (by the Emperor etc).. But we have to remember that the Mechanicum haven’t split right down the middle in the same way as the Legions… in many ways, the Mechanicum has split more. Some of the Dark Mechanicum don’t so much follow Horus as just want to rebel against the strictures of the Mechanicum – example, Cyclothrathe – they are out on the edge of the Imperium, and what they’ve found out there has driven them mad.
The Legio Cybernetica are a kind of compromise from the age of (now banned) sentient machines – the LC have artificial intelligence but not artificial sentience – they aren’t self-willed, sort of artificial beasts. However, as the war goes on and supply chains get disrupted (on both sides) it starts getting hard to replace the cortices in the robots – the Dark Mechanicum will start to take short cuts and try using daemons instead – although this is later, doesn’t happen immediately. Even during the Great Crusade, some of the Primarchs were started to get worried abou how many battle-automata were being created – suspected that the Mechanicum were building up to take on the Imperium itself? Although there are differing levels of suspicion amongst the Primarchs – for example, after a while (after the start of the Heresy) Perturabo starts to mistrust his own legion so much that he has a bodyguard of battle-automata created, instead of using his own legionaries.
Q: Will there be a red book for the Mechanicum?
TC: Yes, but not just yet – there is more yet to add.
Q: Will we see some of the odder sub-cults of the Mechanicum? (such as the electro-priests from 40K).
TC: A lot of 30K stuff isn’t seen in 40K and vice versa – the Mechanicum has evolved a lot.
AB: The 30K Mechanicum has no set organisation – a lot of it is ad hoc (the Taghmata are likened to a feudal ‘raising of banners’) and varies wildly between forge worlds. We may see some bits of the unusual stuff, but the 30K Mechanicum army we see is the ‘macro’ army, the more common stuff.
Q: Will we see 30K Skitarii?
TC: Skitarii are 40K Adeptus Mechanicus troops, their role has pretty much already been covered in 30K – if they are seen, they are likely to be quite different from what you’re used to.
Q: Will there be more types of Ordinatus?
TC: In 40K, each Ordinatus machine is unique, and they are very rare. In 30K they are somewhat less rare, so we will likely do some variants.
Q: Will you cover the relationship between the Mechanicum and the Iron Warriors? Rules and background?
AB: We will cover how the Iron Warriors’ relationship with the Mechanicum evolves – ditto with the Iron Hands, Salamanders – even the Dark Angels (my note – interesting!). After they became one of the Shattered Legions, the remains of the Iron Hands cope in different ways – fight back, start a guerrilla war, some basically go mad. Some turn to forbidden tech – the Keys Of Hel.
MB: Some legions desperately need to replace lost warriors, and quickly…
Q: Will there be any weapon packs for the Mechanicum? For Myrmidons?
MB: Yes, we’re doing them now, but they’re not ready yet.
Q: Will you produce rules for the tech used by the Raven Guard? Reflex shields, etc?
AB: That all depends on the space available in the books. Some stuff – like that Raven Guard gear mentioned – will be left to later books.
Q: After having seen the illustration of the Mechanicum Ordinatus being planned, are you going to be using CAD (Computer-Aided Design) more?
TC: We will be using it more, but still using old-fashioned sculpting as well – kind of a fusion of the two. We will model by hand and by computer – were are not a CGI company!
Q: Are there any Solar Auxilia heavy weapons coming?
TC: The SA don’t tend to carry many heavy weapons.
AB: Most of the SA’s heavy weapons are machine-mobile rather than shoulder-carried or the 40K Astra Militarum two-man fixed teams… they will use Rapier platforms and such. There will be some other heavy/special weapons coming – such as snipers? (Joke about unicycle Rough Riders).
Q: Will there be any Mechanicum transfer sheets?
TC: Yes – we have just taken on someone (Jez Goodwin’s daughter, in fact) just to do decals & brass etchings and the like. Previously they’ve been done by various artists in between other projects, if a bit of spare time came up. Now that we have a dedicated person for this, there should be a lot more.
Q: Will there be a Kelbor-Hal model and rules?
AB & TC: We need to get the narrative to Mars before doing something like that. We will be doing at least one book on Mars later – within the next 4 books perhaps? (my note – if what is mentioned in later seminars is true, then at the earliest this would be Book 8).
Q: In one of the Garro audios there is a kick-ass Mechanicum flyer – will you be doing model/rules?
MB: I have some ideas… <laughter>
Q: (Sorry – didn’t hear the question!)
AB: The Scyllax are guardian-automata, they are defensively orientated and have no cortex. Very little of them is organic, for obvious reasons – inside them is a rad-furnace, they are intended to kill with rad weaponry. Sort of the Mechanicum equivalent to the Legion Destroyer squads.
AdMech (GW) in May it seems
Darnok
Originally Posted by Emperor Karl Franz
Lords of War have already confirmed May as the release date for Adeptus Mechanicus.
WD info / articles supposedly Saturday 28th March 2015.
31.3.15
Tombard wrote: 10 pictures incoming. Have fun :> I hope everything works...
2/1/2015 update: spoilered for size
Spoiler:
Warlord traits:
Shrouded
Eternal warrior
Make a weapon master-crafted (except those from the Relics)
12″ reroll pinning, morale, fear
Overwatch using BS4
Reroll failed fnp + x
Doctrines
There is 6 of them. Use one of them at the beginning of the movement phase (each once per game).
Re-Roll mysterious objectives (not sure if that is meant)
Zealot USR Ini 1: Each enganged unit (melee) with bearer has to roll a toughness-test, failed = D6 wounds no armour
Phase Taser - after wounding an enemy -> initiative test, if failed the model is dead
A pistol - poison 3+, Illuminagen(?) and deals 3 (instead of one) S5 AP2 hits
Skull of Elder (no idea)
Eradication Beamer (Dunecrawler only, standard weapon): 0″- 9″: 10/1, 9″ – 18″: 8/3 blast, 18″ – 36″: 6/5 large blast
Neutron Laser: 48″ 10/1 blast, concussive
There are some interesting wargear options, for example the Icarus Array (point costs: 9 melta bombs) can replace the standard Eradication Beamer or the Neutron Laser. The Walker now has shields (6++), which are cummulative, each Walker in the squadron in 4" adds +1 (max. 4++).
That's it for the moment - they haven't started posting in the comments - but they now do an AMA
There is also a Dragoon which looks to be a dual kit with a rider on top of a bipedal machine. It has legs similar to the IG sentinels, but has a grafted human in the center of the machine. I am not as fluent in the background with the skitarii as I would like to comment much more.
Is it just me or does this sound like a Penitent Engine?
The Penitent Engine uses the exact same legs as the Sentinel but with some extra bling on them.
Now I'm all for some 40k Ad-Mech. As i'd imagine many people are.
But do we really need ANOTHER Imperial faction. Couldn't they just have given us better options for ad-mech style guard in the next IG codex? (Plus models of course. Need those plastic fully customisable ad-mech)
If it's Adeptus Mechanicus: Skitarii, not Adeptus Mechanicus, I somehow believe it more. A mini codex, just like The Knights or the tempestus, supporting a very limited release (as few as 2 kits) seems well within their current modus operandi
Snrub wrote: Now I'm all for some 40k Ad-Mech. As i'd imagine many people are.
But do we really need ANOTHER Imperial faction. Couldn't they just have given us better options for ad-mech style guard in the next IG codex? (Plus models of course. Need those plastic fully customisable ad-mech)
I'm with you. I'd much rather see something non-Imperial. It is at least more interesting than another standard "update" (read: warlord traits, anything without an official model removed) though. Not that I believe it.
As much as I would love a GW AdMech force, I doubt it will be as different, fun, and interesting as the 30K Mechanicum from FW, so I'll probably just stick with that.
Forgeworld is doing HH Mechanicum, units that were around during 30K many of which are no longer produced in the 41st Millenium (or atleast thats their reasoning to not provide 40K rules for the units produced)
There is also a Dragoon which looks to be a dual kit with a rider on top of a bipedal machine. It has legs similar to the IG sentinels, but has a grafted human in the center of the machine.
This thing is clearly Admech Dreadnough. not Pent. Engine
For those who are less excited for yet another Imperial release don't forget that the Harlequins are rumoured to be coming out Q1 2015. If it pans out should be super sweet
As for plastic Admech I'll believe it when I see it. However, I would love to see Admech forces being made as that puts us one step closer to plastic Arbites
Could it happen? Sure. Could the rumored picture being referred to as proof just be a single piece of art from the next Horus Heresy book or even an FFGRPG book leaked early? Sure. At this point, it wouldn't be out of character for GW to come out with a "codex" containng only a single box or two of figs (see the stormtroopers or whatever they're called in faux Latin Gothic)... but I have alot more confidence in Forge World expanding their own Ad Mech stuff rather than GW breaking out into something totally new.
Love for this to be true, But I'm skeptical untill some of the more reliable rumor mongers said saying the same thing. This is natfka and Larry we are talking about. Their records on the rumor tracker sort of speak for themselves.
In regards to people saying sisters will get dropped. I would rather see one of the space marine off shoot books get rolled into space marien codex instead of seeing sisters of battle get dropped as a army.
Snrub wrote: Now I'm all for some 40k Ad-Mech. As i'd imagine many people are.
But do we really need ANOTHER Imperial faction. Couldn't they just have given us better options for ad-mech style guard in the next IG codex? (Plus models of course. Need those plastic fully customisable ad-mech)
in fairness the mechanium are proably the most high profile faction in 40k without it's own army.
I am very hopeful for this to be a thing. Like Brian says, Ad Mech are a high profile faction in 40k lore yet have no real models as of yet. Also GW do seem to be focusing on models that they know will sell well (Marines, Knights, etc..) Yup, I think there may just be an ounce of truth to this rumour...
Breotan wrote: Isn't Forge World already doing these guys?
Nope. To die hard ad-mech fans it's actually been a frustrating part of what FW is doing. The Mechanicum is effectively a sovereign state within the Imperium and its military forces have their own structure. Skitarii are one specific branch of the Mechanicum's military. What FW has been doing are like the Mechanicum's Imperial Guard while the Skitarii are more akin to the Space Marines. It's not so simple because there is a lot more overlap within the Mechanicum's forces but it gives you the basic idea. The FW Mechanicum army are really just the planetary laborers, the robots and other troops the Mechanicum uses to maintain planetary order, and the different types of tech priests. Skitarii are a more self-autonomous expeditionary force.
Breotan wrote: Isn't Forge World already doing these guys?
Nope. To die hard ad-mech fans it's actually been a frustrating part of what FW is doing. The Mechanicum is effectively a sovereign state within the Imperium and its military forces have their own structure. Skitarii are one specific branch of the Mechanicum's military. What FW has been doing are like the Mechanicum's Imperial Guard while the Skitarii are more akin to the Space Marines. It's not so simple because there is a lot more overlap within the Mechanicum's forces but it gives you the basic idea. The FW Mechanicum army are really just the planetary laborers, the robots and other troops the Mechanicum uses to maintain planetary order, and the different types of tech priests. Skitarii are a more self-autonomous expeditionary force.
Forgeworld are casting it as being because in the 30K era the Mechanicum were even more feudal and fractured than they are by the time of 40K, and the Skitarii are specifically the forces of the Martian Mechanicum under the direct control of the Fabricator General, while the stuff FW are putting out are a mix of the military levies of the various non-Martian powers and stuff that's rare/nonexistent in 40K. After the Heresy Mars supposedly exerts a greater amount of control over the overall Mechanicus military using the Skitarii as a model.
Sure, that's just an excuse to do their own stuff rather than make the bloody Skitarii the long-term Mechanicus fans were hoping for, but it's at least plausible.
As for the rumour...honestly I'm not sure how to feel. I mean, sure, if it's true, the models will probably be very good even if they don't end up fitting my own headcanon vision of Skitarii, a fantastic source of bitz if nothing else. But. I just don't know if I trust them with the fluff any more. After the Iron Hands debacle, and the way they're turning the WHFB background into mulch to flog the new big kits, I can't shake the sensation that if they ever actually do try to flesh out the Mechanicum as a playable force, even just an ally-dex, the price will be an atrocious butchery of their background. All the old knowing-wink "percussive maintenance" dry humour stripped away in favour of po-faced over-serious writing, taking away all the ambiguity that allows people to ignore the stupid gak that's crept in over the years like depicting them as nothing more than puppets of the C'Tan or the Emperor, or even worse that I don't even want to try imagining.
The Skitarii were around in 30K. The organisational structure of the Mechanicum given in the third book shows them as being there. The Stigmatah is just another branch. FW probably just hasn't gotten t Skitarii for the same reasons no one has done Skitarii yet: GW-proper won't let them.
These guys may be off on their rumor mill records but it is not unusual for them to get an early lead or see something but report it wrong. I remember them seeing the Knights way early and reporting as a Marine super Dreadnought or something. It is possible this may actually pan out to be a sisters release. I would not doubt that something is coming but their finite record is off so at this point is all I would trust is there is a large penitent engine/grey knight knight style model coming.
Tempestus could be a template for future "allies" codices, with a couple new kits, combined with a few borrowed units, to make a mini-faction that is mainly meant to ally with a larger codex. Stormtroopers, Inquisition, rumors of Harlequins goin this route, and now possibly Mechanicus. At this point, Sisters may drop to the level of one of these "supplementary" codices instead of a full new book.
2-3 box sets, 1-4 clampacks, a book, done. Lots of good will for finally doing Harlequins or Mechanicus, while boosting sales of other armies to ally with them to fill in the gaps.
strange walkers with bound humans within its structure? sounds more like a bastardized penitent engine to me.
not sure about the rumor, but i wouldn't put it past GW to 'capitalize' on the popularity of mechanicum forces from the HH.
but lets face it, 40k needs the mechanicum represented. they're a huge part of the imperium's survival, so would be great if the rumor is true but i think if its going to be anything its going to be an SoB re-release, with some ridiculous new models that were never needed and break the game...
sorry, but after the whole 'wolf-sleigh' and 'alien ice which never melts' my expectations on the sophistication of their future product ideas and fluff have diminished considerably.
H.B.M.C. wrote: The Skitarii were around in 30K. The organisational structure of the Mechanicum given in the third book shows them as being there. The Stigmatah is just another branch. FW probably just hasn't gotten t Skitarii for the same reasons no one has done Skitarii yet: GW-proper won't let them.
I think the HH AdMech units we've seen so far belong not to the larger Adeptus Mechanicus military but to Legio Cybernetica and its branches. Now, this is something I've made up in my head to explain the absence of Skitarii, so it's probably unbased or even disproved right away in the books. I haven't got past book two, to be fair.
The Taghmata Omnissiah list in HH Book 3 is supposed to be representative of the full forces that a forgeworld can draw upon from its own resources, which is why they're a mix of the cheap tech-thralls, elite Myrmidons, Thallax, and Battle Automata.
The Skitarii regiments answered to Mars alone.
Which is why I expect we wouldn't see Forgeworld Skitarii until we get to the war on Mars.
Bronzefists42 wrote: In perfect honesty if they do make Skitarii (which I hope they do) I feel like GW might just end up dropping SOB all together.
Nope.
What they've been doing with the Sisters is very deliberate. Holding on to the IP by continuing to produce models and "sustaining" the army with infrequent rules updates. It's low cost, high margin, even if the overall sales are still pretty low. Inflate the price of the models so nobody actually buys them, and you don't have to produce/stock very many. The e-codexes are just data, so they don't have to be stocked either, and can be sold in infinite quantities and stored essentially for free.
CthuluIsSpy wrote: If I can ally them if Necrons, I will be very happy.
I want the machine-cultists that were hinted back in 3rd ed, dammit.
Well let's see. Admech= Mars=imprisoned Void Dragon=Cyber space god=machine cult=necron ties= Etherium/c'tan phase blades/neural shredder=officio assassinorum=Inquisition=heaven? 6 degrees of separation?
Back on topic. The Mechanicum is currently one of the most profitable armies in FW's warchest. It would be heretical for GW not to capitalize on a mini-dex and line release. The dark and grotesque Mechanicum images and artwork that littered the pages of early '80's wh material is the gravitas that seized my nearly 30 year romance with 40k. GW can't lose with this venture.
H.B.M.C. wrote: You genuinely believe that that's their SoB strategy?
Give me a break...
I dunno...it seems like that is in fact exactly what they've done with Sisters. The question is whether Sisters are in a coma because 'business', or whether it's because they aren't sure what to do with them.
My personal opinion is that the studio hasn't done much with them just because the concept isn't that compelling after you get past "power armored nuns with guns." The creative opportunities with AdMech seem pretty limitless in comparison. IMO. Note that I'm NOT calling for Sisters to be squatted, though. I don't wish that on anyone.
More on topic though, I'm highly skeptical of these rumors. Seem like exactly the type of invented rumors that the clickbait sites thrive on.
Sob should have never been made a codex. The 2 or 3 cool things in the army could have easily been delegated to Inquisition and Grey Knights. At bare minimum, SoB should be a dataslate. How many zealot, bible fanatics do we need? I call blatant favoritism in lieu of tits on GW behalf.
If Sob was an attempt at the market grab of the female persuasion, it was a flub. If they intended for that, all they needed to do is disrobe a few Dark eldar femmes and have them nag enemies to death. Or just seduce them out of their gear.
How can any one of us justify what armies "deserve" or "should" get Codices over another? The simple answer is that we can't. I like to make fun of SoB players because they're hilariously humourless and possessed of a form of aggressive/defensive self-loathing for their army that is really easy to ridicule, but I don't think for a second that they shouldn't get full support from GW (Codes, full plastic model-line release, etc.).
So does anyone know what the hold-up is? Do we know what part of the sculpt is causing the problem?
The robes. Specifically, the big cloth sleeves. I believe it was Jes Goodwin who described the problem at some seminar in the past, stating that to recreate them properly in plastic would require too many pieces or something because of the undercuts.
I say GW just needs to get with the times and invest some money in better molding equipment. Some good slide core tooling ought to resolve that problem, if they really wanted to.
Nyghoma wrote: Sob should have never been made a codex. The 2 or 3 cool things in the army could have easily been delegated to Inquisition and Grey Knights. At bare minimum, SoB should be a dataslate. How many zealot, bible fanatics do we need? I call blatant favoritism in lieu of tits on GW behalf.
If Sob was an attempt at the market grab of the female persuasion, it was a flub. If they intended for that, all they needed to do is disrobe a few Dark eldar femmes and have them nag enemies to death. Or just seduce them out of their gear.
DA should have never been made a codex. The 2 or 3 cool things in the army could have easily been delegated to Space Marines. At bare minimum, DA should be a dataslate. How many backstabbing, "secrets" fanatics do we need?
BA should have never been made a codex. The 2 or 3 cool things in the army could have easily been delegated to Space Marines. At bare minimum, BA should be a dataslate. How many frothing, sparkling fanatics do we need?
GK should have never been made a codex. The 2 or 3 cool things in the army could have easily been delegated to Space Marines and Inquisition. At bare minimum, GK should be a dataslate. How many zealot, demon hunting fanatics do we need?
SW should have never been made a codex. The 2 or 3 cool things in the army could have easily been delegated to Space Marines. At bare minimum, SW should be a dataslate. How many BL praised, drunk fanatics do we need?
IK should have never been made a codex. The 2 cool things in the army could have easily been delegated to Imper... Astra Militarium. At bare minimum, IK should be a dataslate. How many zealot, robot riding fanatics do we need?
30k should have never been made a ruleset. The 2 or 3 cool things in the rules could have easily been delegated to 40k. At bare minimum, 30k should be a campaign. How many space marines do we need?
SirDonlad wrote: sorry, but after the whole 'wolf-sleigh' and 'alien ice which never melts' my expectations on the sophistication of their future product ideas and fluff have diminished considerably.
Oh geez. Now you're making me wonder if I really want to read the new SW codex.
Nyghoma wrote: Sob should have never been made a codex. The 2 or 3 cool things in the army could have easily been delegated to Inquisition and Grey Knights. At bare minimum, SoB should be a dataslate. How many zealot, bible fanatics do we need? I call blatant favoritism in lieu of tits on GW behalf.
If Sob was an attempt at the market grab of the female persuasion, it was a flub. If they intended for that, all they needed to do is disrobe a few Dark eldar femmes and have them nag enemies to death. Or just seduce them out of their gear.
DA should have never been made a codex. The 2 or 3 cool things in the army could have easily been delegated to Space Marines. At bare minimum, DA should be a dataslate. How many backstabbing, "secrets" fanatics do we need?
BA should have never been made a codex. The 2 or 3 cool things in the army could have easily been delegated to Space Marines. At bare minimum, BA should be a dataslate. How many frothing, sparkling fanatics do we need?
GK should have never been made a codex. The 2 or 3 cool things in the army could have easily been delegated to Space Marines and Inquisition. At bare minimum, GK should be a dataslate. How many zealot, demon hunting fanatics do we need?
SW should have never been made a codex. The 2 or 3 cool things in the army could have easily been delegated to Space Marines. At bare minimum, SW should be a dataslate. How many BL praised, drunk fanatics do we need?
IK should have never been made a codex. The 2 cool things in the army could have easily been delegated to Imper... Astra Militarium. At bare minimum, IK should be a dataslate. How many zealot, robot riding fanatics do we need?
30k should have never been made a ruleset. The 2 or 3 cool things in the rules could have easily been delegated to 40k. At bare minimum, 30k should be a campaign. How many space marines do we need?
I like the template you've provided.
Hahaha nice. But let's not get carried away lol. As crazy as this sounds, I do agree with some of those positions.
The handling of SM chapters could've been streamlined similar to the adeptus astartes in the current SM codex. Some gear and special rules could have been restricted to chapter only. But then we lose all those years of fluff and cannon, in addition to gorging a codex that's already brimming with 800+ pages as it stands. Generally I'm not for over simplify anything. I do have an appreciation for details and adornment. Ultimately merging all chapters into one bible isn't practical.
Inquisition, wholeheartedly agree. Jam Gk, Sob, OA, and anything else that falls under the inquisition's "direct" sphere of influence. I understand why 7th edition split them up, but it could have been sorted differently while maintaining easier access to all imperium.
IG is fine. Won't touch that. IK definitely needs to be leashed. It gets a bye though only because it just had its debut in 2014. No sense in retooling a codex that just had a new revision the year before. Although it should be fused with our theoretical inquisition or potential(and hopefully) Admech codex, again maintaining it's availability to all imperium books.
Nyghoma wrote: Sob should have never been made a codex. The 2 or 3 cool things in the army could have easily been delegated to Inquisition and Grey Knights. At bare minimum, SoB should be a dataslate. How many zealot, bible fanatics do we need? I call blatant favoritism in lieu of tits on GW behalf.
If Sob was an attempt at the market grab of the female persuasion, it was a flub. If they intended for that, all they needed to do is disrobe a few Dark eldar femmes and have them nag enemies to death. Or just seduce them out of their gear.
I'd have to check the original 2nd Ed Codex, but I'm sure the designers at the time had a paragraph in there stating that the Sisters would work best with Allies.
Nyghoma wrote: Sob should have never been made a codex. The 2 or 3 cool things in the army could have easily been delegated to Inquisition and Grey Knights. At bare minimum, SoB should be a dataslate. How many zealot, bible fanatics do we need? I call blatant favoritism in lieu of tits on GW behalf.
If Sob was an attempt at the market grab of the female persuasion, it was a flub. If they intended for that, all they needed to do is disrobe a few Dark eldar femmes and have them nag enemies to death. Or just seduce them out of their gear.
I'd have to check the original 2nd Ed Codex, but I'm sure the designers at the time had a paragraph in there stating that the Sisters would work best with Allies.
Sisters and Grey Knights were both written as components of larger Inquisition lists that included Stormtroopers, the Inquisition, and the Assassinorium. The problem is that GW keeps subdividing the lists so they can charge people $30 for extra supplements.
I had a Daemonhunters army back in 4e that I'd need three Codexes to run today.
SirDonlad wrote: sorry, but after the whole 'wolf-sleigh' and 'alien ice which never melts' my expectations on the sophistication of their future product ideas and fluff have diminished considerably.
Oh geez. Now you're making me wonder if I really want to read the new SW codex.
The 40k folks at my FLGS call Grimnar's new mount the "Yiff Skiff". That should give you some idea how seriously we're taking it.
(Also, "Murderfang"? Did one of the designers let their five-year-old kid name him?)
Sisters and Grey Knights were both written as components of larger Inquisition lists that included Stormtroopers, the Inquisition, and the Assassinorium. The problem is that GW keeps subdividing the lists so they can charge people $30 for extra supplements.
I had a Daemonhunters army back in 4e that I'd need three Codexes to run today.
They basically turned codex deamon hunters into three codexs meant only for allieing to other armies. Let's be honest, the new grey knight book is bassicly one step away from being a allied codex anyway in it's current state.
In all honesty, you can say the above about the current digital sisters of battle codex since they made codex storm troopers and codex Inquisition.
But we've gone super off topic at this point i think.
SoB should have never been made a codex. The 2 or 3 cool things in the army could have easily been delegated to Inquisition and Grey Knights. At bare minimum, SoB should be a dataslate. How many zealot, bible fanatics do we need? I call blatant favoritism in lieu of tits on GW behalf.
------------
Sisters and Grey Knights were both written as components of larger Inquisition lists that included Stormtroopers, the Inquisition, and the Assassinorium. The problem is that GW keeps subdividing the lists so they can charge people $30 for extra supplements.
I hate to add to the off-topic of this thread, but I have to chime in with my own minutia. They existed years and years before the Daemonhunters Codex (since about 1998). Back when Grey Knights were a single Terminator squad that you could only take as allies if you fought against a Chaos army (daemons did not exist on their own either). The recent e-codex was not their first codex as a standalone force.
Back on topic, I think Adeptus Mechanicus would be the first thing released in a long time that would do best standing on it's own. Stormtroopers should never have been out of the Imperial Guard codex, Grey Knights should never have been anything more than a power armor and/or terminator squad option for a single "Inquisition" codex that used other Inquisitorial special units (along with Deathwatch squads), and the upcoming Harlequins should have just been in the Eldar codex like they always have been since 2nd edition.
The forces of the Adeptus Mechanicus are finally a force that does not exist as a small group of squads/characters allied to a larger organization.
IG is fine. Won't touch that. IK definitely needs to be leashed. It gets a bye though only because it just had its debut in 2014. No sense in retooling a codex that just had a new revision the year before. Although it should be fused with our theoretical inquisition or potential(and hopefully) Admech codex, again maintaining it's availability to all imperium books.
Heck, the entire ruleset got a revision after what.. two years? Knights can certainly get leashed. Plus it makes everyone spend more money, we could even get it at $50 this time.
My favorite part of this hobby is giving GW my money.
H.B.M.C. wrote: How can any one of us justify what armies "deserve" or "should" get Codices over another?
Based on whether or not they have a distinct gameplay niche. SoB are just another MEQ shooting army, especially now that the GK precedent pretty strongly suggests that we're never going to see any of the inquisition elements in the SoB codex again. You could easily move them into C:SM without losing any of their fluff or gameplay.
(And yes, this standard results in other armies losing their codex.)
Peregrine wrote: Based on whether or not they have a distinct gameplay niche. SoB are just another MEQ shooting army....You could easily move them into C:SM without losing any of their fluff or gameplay.
I ask with genuine confusion, you are saying that since most of the SoBs have 3+ Armour and BS4 that they should be rolled into Codex: Space Marines?
They seem to have a fair bit more in common with the IG (Strength, Toughness, WS for Crunch, non Post-Human and closer ties to 'human' bodies of Authority for fluff) but I wouldn't really think to put them in with them.
I don't play SoB but I'd look forward to them getting an update. They maybe a MEQ army but there the one that is most distinct from the many space marine flavors.
That said, I hope GW does Ad Mech because if FW has shown us anything it's how unique and interesting the play style of that sort of army can be. It's just a matter of if GW does the Skitarri concept justice.
Vain wrote: I ask with genuine confusion, you are saying that since most of the SoBs have 3+ Armour and BS4 that they should be rolled into Codex: Space Marines?
No, it's more than than just BS 4 and power armor. SoB have the same bolters, the same melta guns (the default special weapon for MEQ armies), the same Rhinos, etc. In gameplay terms they're almost identical to a melta + transport spam army created from any other MEQ codex, just with a reduction in mostly-irrelevant stats (WS, S, T) in exchange for a slightly cheaper point cost per model.
Whilst the artwork is nice enough , from what we can see anyway, it does strike one as it being unlikely that this would be from a codex, not least as the artwork is black and white, and GW have made a big point about the current gen. of codices being hardback and full colour.
Those images could be ANYTHING, there's not even a particular 40k aesthetic to them. I'm not saying it isn't AdMech but there isn't anything that says it is either.
Edit: kinda convenient that all the big clues that point to Skitari that the author describes, like the AdMech symbols and the red cloth, aren't visible in the pictures they've posted.
H.B.M.C. wrote: How can any one of us justify what armies "deserve" or "should" get Codices over another?
Based on whether or not they have a distinct gameplay niche. SoB are just another MEQ shooting army, especially now that the GK precedent pretty strongly suggests that we're never going to see any of the inquisition elements in the SoB codex again. You could easily move them into C:SM without losing any of their fluff or gameplay.
(And yes, this standard results in other armies losing their codex.)
Sorry my bad, forgot how laughably insane some of your statements can be.
I really hope this is not true. GW will butcher the concept of Skitarii (no one mentioned that they are the infantry in the Titan Legions yet?) and the models will not be good enough (cartoonish, not enough details, etc...)
Vintersorg wrote: (no one mentioned that they are the infantry in the Titan Legions yet?)
Skitarii is the Mechanicus's official term for all military forces under its command, not just Titan Legions (though they may possess their own Skitarii forces).
MrFlutterPie wrote: For those who are less excited for yet another Imperial release don't forget that the Harlequins are rumoured to be coming out Q1 2015. If it pans out should be super sweet
That would be awesome, I only have 30 of them. I'm not gwetting my hopes up
Vintersorg wrote: (no one mentioned that they are the infantry in the Titan Legions yet?)
Skitarii is the Mechanicus's official term for all military forces under its command, not just Titan Legions (though they may possess their own Skitarii forces).
Excerpted from the Skitarri Field Manual 001 - Universal Issue (translated from the original binary):
Standing Order #1: When providing infantry support for Titans, watch out for their feet.
From the Fabricator-General:
Guys, I don't fething believe we have to keep reminding you about this! The Princeps has trouble seeing you from way up there and even more trouble caring whether you live or die. I don't care either except that your equipment is sacred, expensive, and fething impossible to salvage after it's been pressed into sheet metal. The Titan's a house-sized mass of holiness with a lot of motherfething momentum, so don't expect IT to step around YOU, YOU get out of ITS way. Aight?
Hmm, well, I remember when the Skitarii were just Imperial Guard troops assigned to the Titan Legions. Back when the IG didn't have fancy-schmancy things like Leman Russ tanks and Chimeras and basically died in greater numbers due to lack of decent strategies. Yes, I hearken back to the days of giving the IG Land Raiders and Rhinos and having jetbike troops. Of course this is back when a guardsman could carry a lascannon on his shoulder without having to set it down or have another guy carrying his power packs for him...
And once upon a time the Ultramarines were a Chapter created to replace the original Ultramarines who turned to Chaos. And their Chief Librarian was a half-Eldar.
To put it another way: Old gak is old. Let go of it.
H.B.M.C. wrote: And once upon a time the Ultramarines were a Chapter created to replace the original Ultramarines who turned to Chaos. And their Chief Librarian was a half-Eldar.
To put it another way: Old gak is old. Let go of it.
NEVER! Your Imperial cover ups can never hide the truth, I will make sure everyone knows about the real Ultrama-GHHHHHHHK!!!!!!!
I am extremely skeptical about this happening. As much as I would love for this to happen, I know both of these sources can be pretty unreliable....I'll wait for something a bit more concrete..
The artwork isn't convincing in of itself. The designs certainly look like something that could translate to miniatures, but it's not obviously GW's work.
It's very hard to know what to make of individual rules rumors without a lot of context. But the rumor seems to be suggesting S6 haywire spam, and that seems questionable. GW seems to have a fairly firm leash on haywire these days. But again...context.
I feel like the Mechanicus, being one of the most variable armies in the 40k mythos, would not be done justice under Games Workshop's new faction scheme. Because currently the only two new factions that Games Workshop has granted codicies to are the Inquisition, which received NO new models, units, or even a physical book, and Militarum Tempestus, which received a thin book and 2 new releases. Even though the case could be made that the stormtroopers never really had much else anyways, from a business standpoint Games Workshop has given every signal that they are not going to just throw out an entirely new army.
Quarterdime wrote: I feel like the Mechanicus, being one of the most variable armies in the 40k mythos, would not be done justice under Games Workshop's new faction scheme. Because currently the only two new factions that Games Workshop has granted codicies to are the Inquisition, which received NO new models, units, or even a physical book, and Militarum Tempestus, which received a thin book and 2 new releases. Even though the case could be made that the stormtroopers never really had much else anyways, from a business standpoint Games Workshop has given every signal that they are not going to just throw out an entirely new army.
That said... of course I want it...
You could argue that they have never been better set up to introduce a new army in a 'safe' manner.
Couple of blisters and a box, with a Tempestus type codex, add to that in six months when they sell like hot cakes with a Mechanicum: Mars Attacks! campaign supplement that introduces more units.
They are establishing the framework for this sort of release, it remains to be seen if they plan to use it.
IK should have never been made a codex. The 2 cool things in the army could have easily been delegated to Imper... Astra Militarium. At bare minimum, IK should be a dataslate. How many zealot, robot riding fanatics do we need?
.
dude, did you SEE the IK update/FAQ?
it IS a dataslate now!
seriously, have a look at it alongside codex IK and see how much of it you need now...
To put it another way: Old gak is old. Let go of it.
We keep telling SoB players that but they will not listen.
And we keep telling you that just because marines are Red, Grey, Green or Blue they should just have one book with a set of special rules in stead of filling every other release.
Nyghoma wrote: Sob should have never been made a codex. The 2 or 3 cool things in the army could have easily been delegated to Inquisition and Grey Knights. At bare minimum, SoB should be a dataslate. How many zealot, bible fanatics do we need? I call blatant favoritism in lieu of tits on GW behalf.
If Sob was an attempt at the market grab of the female persuasion, it was a flub. If they intended for that, all they needed to do is disrobe a few Dark eldar femmes and have them nag enemies to death. Or just seduce them out of their gear.
I feel the same way about Grey Knights. I felt they were waaay cooler back when they were only a daemon busting unit of Grey Knight Terminators that allied with your Space Marine or Imperial Guard army in a very limited capacity. Very thematic and "elite" compared to the filler we have in the GK codex. I mean, how many flavors of marines do we need? Blatant favoratism alright
I agree with others that GW just doesn't know what to do with SOB. I like the old metal Jes sculpts though, and wish they'd keep them in circulation, in metal, at a reasonable price. But yeah, that ship has sailed. I'm going to put my money on a dataslate as an allied unit or three a la Scions. Eventually.
Nyghoma wrote: Sob should have never been made a codex. The 2 or 3 cool things in the army could have easily been delegated to Inquisition and Grey Knights. At bare minimum, SoB should be a dataslate. How many zealot, bible fanatics do we need? I call blatant favoritism in lieu of tits on GW behalf.
If Sob was an attempt at the market grab of the female persuasion, it was a flub. If they intended for that, all they needed to do is disrobe a few Dark eldar femmes and have them nag enemies to death. Or just seduce them out of their gear.
I feel the same way about Grey Knights. I felt they were waaay cooler back when they were only a daemon busting unit of Grey Knight Terminators that allied with your Space Marine or Imperial Guard army in a very limited capacity. Very thematic and "elite" compared to the filler we have in the GK codex. I mean, how many flavors of marines do we need? Blatant favoratism alright
I agree with others that GW just doesn't know what to do with SOB. I like the old metal Jes sculpts though, and wish they'd keep them in circulation, in metal, at a reasonable price. But yeah, that ship has sailed. I'm going to put my money on a dataslate as an allied unit or three a la Scions. Eventually.
Completely agree, way back when, there was only one instance in the fluff that the grey Knights were deployed in force, and that was when Angron invaded Armageddon.
Should still be a single squad with options to upgrade the sergeant to a captain, librarian or grand master, and they should all have th paladin bas stats. No PA grey Knights, no vehicles no nothing.
The grey knights are an odd one, I did like that they were like a LoTD style enigmatic force. However I did love the Deamon hunters and Witch Hunters codex in third.
migooo wrote: The grey knights are an odd one, I did like that they were like a LoTD style enigmatic force. However I did love the Deamon hunters and Witch Hunters codex in third.
Agreed. Now they're just marines with psychic powers, stormbolters, and power weapons. I liked them better in the original Daemon Hunters book where they had a unique statline and some unique abilities. And I say this as someone who played a pure GK force under that book (and, admittedly, lost almost every game I played).
migooo wrote: The grey knights are an odd one, I did like that they were like a LoTD style enigmatic force. However I did love the Deamon hunters and Witch Hunters codex in third.
Agreed. Now they're just marines with psychic powers, stormbolters, and power weapons. I liked them better in the original Daemon Hunters book where they had a unique statline and some unique abilities. And I say this as someone who played a pure GK force under that book (and, admittedly, lost almost every game I played).
I played a mixed Inquisition force under that book. Still grumpy I have to use three books to field that army now.
Vain wrote: I ask with genuine confusion, you are saying that since most of the SoBs have 3+ Armour and BS4 that they should be rolled into Codex: Space Marines?
No, it's more than than just BS 4 and power armor. SoB have the same bolters, the same melta guns (the default special weapon for MEQ armies), the same Rhinos, etc. In gameplay terms they're almost identical to a melta + transport spam army created from any other MEQ codex, just with a reduction in mostly-irrelevant stats (WS, S, T) in exchange for a slightly cheaper point cost per model.
Out of curiosity, have you read the Sisters of Battle Codex?
One reassuring thing for SOB is they keep getting a background section in the core rulebook. I figure as long as they do that, we're at least not gonna get Squatted. But "allowed to exist" is a long ways from "new models."
Well, it seems like rumors are flowing at the usual suspect sites. But how often do we get weapon profile info months in advance anymore? That alone makes me skeptical.
Again, I'm all in favor of letting the rumors flow, but I'm not taking these very seriously.
It's Faeit212, I never know whether to take that serious or not.
Lockark wrote: Why is everyone tonight dead set on trolling the SOB players?
Because we want to scare you back to your own thread If someone could just mail Natfka, he would immediately make a new post and we could open a rumour thread for your army.
migooo wrote: I agree with you on that. But saying that SoB are just female space marines is really irritating.
I've put of doing a new army because I want plastic SoB so badly. However I've come to the bitter resolution that it will never happen.
If this skitari army happens and that's a huge if ill get a really small force as AM were my wish army before SoB got rejected by GW like they are.
Yeah lets be honest the more like female guard than marines. I am pretty sure that the SoB are considered something of an embarrassment by GW and if they had not become an integral part of the fluff (someone has to get slaughtered to make the new dexs look good) they would have been dropped long ago.
migooo wrote: I agree with you on that. But saying that SoB are just female space marines is really irritating.
I've put of doing a new army because I want plastic SoB so badly. However I've come to the bitter resolution that it will never happen.
If this skitari army happens and that's a huge if ill get a really small force as AM were my wish army before SoB got rejected by GW like they are.
Yeah lets be honest the more like female guard than marines. I am pretty sure that the SoB are considered something of an embarrassment by GW and if they had not become an integral part of the fluff (someone has to get slaughtered to make the new dexs look good) they would have been dropped long ago.
Then SoB would have been squated in the similar fashion to Gensteeler cults and Kroot mercenaries where, they never updated the rules and let them die in the way side. If GW are embarrassed by the SoB they why would they keep updating the rules for them.
I've clicked on this thread numerous times in the last couple of days praying for some actual ad mech news. What do I find? More SoB talk, I'm not normally one to complain but can it not move into another thread now? Please?!
Edit: And before you say it, yeah, we are also cluttering the thread up by complaining about the people complaining about SoB. It can't be helped!
Commander Cain wrote: I've clicked on this thread numerous times in the last couple of days praying for some actual ad mech news. What do I find? More SoB talk, I'm not normally one to complain but can it not move into another thread now? Please?!
Edit: And before you say it, yeah, we are also cluttering the thread up by complaining about the people complaining about SoB. It can't be helped!
You can put 100% blame on this post.
Bronzefists42 wrote: In perfect honesty if they do make Skitarii (which I hope they do) I feel like GW might just end up dropping SOB all together.
As for Ad-Mech what I got from the rumors is that there is a good chance that they are at least a good ways out to a possible release (perhaps a year or so) "The new faction is in fact Ad Mech, Skitarii. As far as I know this is still a ways out, but who knows. "
Hey guys why don't sob get their own thread section where the haters and lovers of them can bitch about.
And so stop going off point in every rumors thread.
CthuluIsSpy wrote: If I can ally them if Necrons, I will be very happy.
I want the machine-cultists that were hinted back in 3rd ed, dammit.
One thing that they will never be able to do is ally with Necrons. They for sure will be cometh the apocalypse.
One of the very rules of the Mechanicum is that a soul-less machine is the very anathema of existence and therefore Necrons are basically a no go
You never read the 3rd ed Necron codex, it seems
And all the fluff since that mentions the cult of the Dragon
Can anyone actually tell me where all this fluff is? Outside of the Mechanicum novel, which was written in the dark days of the 3rd Ed codex and doesn't fit particularly well with the Newcron fluff, I don't know where all this Cult of the Dragon nonsense is coming from. There's a load of waffle about it on the 40k wikia, but it amounts to fanfic as far as I can tell since the only source cited is Mechanicum, and if you check the more reliable Lexicanum wiki you get a three-sentence summation that amounts to "see Mechanicum".
I know I go on about this, but it annoys the hell out of me. There was already a "way in" for involving Necrons and other alien races with the Mechanicus through the Xenarites faction, there's no justification for the ridiculous Dragon nonsense beyond "hey guise we made Necrons into an army and decided to shoehorn them into every existing faction's history, so the Mechanicus are just xenos stooges now K?". If people like Necrons, play Necrons.
CthuluIsSpy wrote: If I can ally them if Necrons, I will be very happy. I want the machine-cultists that were hinted back in 3rd ed, dammit.
One thing that they will never be able to do is ally with Necrons. They for sure will be cometh the apocalypse.
One of the very rules of the Mechanicum is that a soul-less machine is the very anathema of existence and therefore Necrons are basically a no go
You never read the 3rd ed Necron codex, it seems
And all the fluff since that mentions the cult of the Dragon
Can anyone actually tell me where all this fluff is? Outside of the Mechanicum novel, which was written in the dark days of the 3rd Ed codex and doesn't fit particularly well with the Newcron fluff, I don't know where all this Cult of the Dragon nonsense is coming from. There's a load of waffle about it on the 40k wikia, but it amounts to fanfic as far as I can tell since the only source cited is Mechanicum, and if you check the more reliable Lexicanum wiki you get a three-sentence summation that amounts to "see Mechanicum".
I know I go on about this, but it annoys the hell out of me. There was already a "way in" for involving Necrons and other alien races with the Mechanicus through the Xenarites faction, there's no justification for the ridiculous Dragon nonsense beyond "hey guise we made Necrons into an army and decided to shoehorn them into every existing faction's history, so the Mechanicus are just xenos stooges now K?". If people like Necrons, play Necrons.
There's a bit of fluff in the 3rd ed codex, where Abaddon interrogates a demon about strange things happening on Mars. According to the demon, there's a place on mars where souls are discarded. It's strongly implied that Pariahs are being made there, and the fact that a necron scout force tried to land there makes it even more interesting.
There's a another bit of fluff about a tech-priest going insane and ripping out all of his bionics, rambling about how everything the tech-priests worship is a lie.
There is a small blurb in the codex about the Void Dragon, about how it's a C'tan with a certain affinity with machines and technology.
Malika2 wrote: Do Necron Pariah's still exist in the current background?
They have not been mentioned in the new codex. There is a picture of a Necron awakening that features them, but that same picture was in the last codex as well, so it's most likely more of a case of GW being lazy.
Snrub wrote: But do we really need ANOTHER Imperial faction.
If it is Ad Mech, then yes, we absolutely do! And maybe then FW could finally be arsed to give 40K rules to all their lovely mechanicum stuff.
(Sitll, I feel sorry for the Sisters if we get plastic Skitarii before plastic SoB.)
The way GW treats SOB you'll see plastic imperial citizens armed with pitchforks before you see those... But I wonder, with all those imperial factions, do people even find xeno-players to fight anymore?
CthuluIsSpy wrote: If I can ally them if Necrons, I will be very happy.
I want the machine-cultists that were hinted back in 3rd ed, dammit.
One thing that they will never be able to do is ally with Necrons. They for sure will be cometh the apocalypse.
One of the very rules of the Mechanicum is that a soul-less machine is the very anathema of existence and therefore Necrons are basically a no go
You never read the 3rd ed Necron codex, it seems
And all the fluff since that mentions the cult of the Dragon
Can anyone actually tell me where all this fluff is? Outside of the Mechanicum novel, which was written in the dark days of the 3rd Ed codex and doesn't fit particularly well with the Newcron fluff, I don't know where all this Cult of the Dragon nonsense is coming from. There's a load of waffle about it on the 40k wikia, but it amounts to fanfic as far as I can tell since the only source cited is Mechanicum, and if you check the more reliable Lexicanum wiki you get a three-sentence summation that amounts to "see Mechanicum".
I know I go on about this, but it annoys the hell out of me. There was already a "way in" for involving Necrons and other alien races with the Mechanicus through the Xenarites faction, there's no justification for the ridiculous Dragon nonsense beyond "hey guise we made Necrons into an army and decided to shoehorn them into every existing faction's history, so the Mechanicus are just xenos stooges now K?". If people like Necrons, play Necrons.
There's a bit of fluff in the 3rd ed codex, where Abaddon interrogates a demon about strange things happening on Mars. According to the demon, there's a place on mars where souls are discarded.
It's strongly implied that Pariahs are being made there, and the fact that a necron scout force tried to land there makes it even more interesting.
There's a another bit of fluff about a tech-priest going insane and ripping out all of his bionics, rambling about how everything the tech-priests worship is a lie.
There is a small blurb in the codex about the Void Dragon, about how it's a C'tan with a certain affinity with machines and technology.
However much we would like to ignore the Matt Ward 5th Ed codex we cannot guys. The history for all intents and purposes had a bit of a 'rewrite' and most of the 3rd Ed stuff is deemed MIA until we see the new Necron dex. Yes there are cults which could be considered supplements of an ad mech force but your generic 'Insert Ad Mech Cult' here is not going to be allying with Necrons under current fluff. That's kind of what my point is. Feel free to pull it apart with a codex 4 editions old though.
There's a bit of fluff in the 3rd ed codex, where Abaddon interrogates a demon about strange things happening on Mars. According to the demon, there's a place on mars where souls are discarded.
It's strongly implied that Pariahs are being made there, and the fact that a necron scout force tried to land there makes it even more interesting.
Just to nitpick a bit, but the Necron scout force didn't just try to land on Mars, they actually did.
Although, they were destroyed from orbit within seconds of landing.
There's a bit of fluff in the 3rd ed codex, where Abaddon interrogates a demon about strange things happening on Mars. According to the demon, there's a place on mars where souls are discarded.
It's strongly implied that Pariahs are being made there, and the fact that a necron scout force tried to land there makes it even more interesting.
Just to nitpick a bit, but the Necron scout force didn't just try to land on Mars, they actually did.
Although, they were destroyed from orbit within seconds of landing.
Didnt something take of from Mars at one point necron related?
There's a bit of fluff in the 3rd ed codex, where Abaddon interrogates a demon about strange things happening on Mars. According to the demon, there's a place on mars where souls are discarded. It's strongly implied that Pariahs are being made there, and the fact that a necron scout force tried to land there makes it even more interesting.
Just to nitpick a bit, but the Necron scout force didn't just try to land on Mars, they actually did.
Although, they were destroyed from orbit within seconds of landing.
Oh yeah, they did. It's been a while since I read the 3rd ed book. Flicking through it made me realize how much the quality of GW's writing has dropped. There was some pretty freaky stuff in that book.
Snrub wrote: But do we really need ANOTHER Imperial faction.
If it is Ad Mech, then yes, we absolutely do! And maybe then FW could finally be arsed to give 40K rules to all their lovely mechanicum stuff.
(Sitll, I feel sorry for the Sisters if we get plastic Skitarii before plastic SoB.)
The way GW treats SOB you'll see plastic imperial citizens armed with pitchforks before you see those... But I wonder, with all those imperial factions, do people even find xeno-players to fight anymore?
If the other people I get to play against got together there would only be one Imperial army between the four of us with our 'active ' armies.
GW still has pretty fantastic diversity amongst it's Xenos armies.
Ad Mech could be a nice Imperial/Xenos bridge in terms of feel.
Honestly people complain much more about only playing marine variations than they do about 'Imperial' stuff in general.
There's a bit of fluff in the 3rd ed codex, where Abaddon interrogates a demon about strange things happening on Mars. According to the demon, there's a place on mars where souls are discarded.
It's strongly implied that Pariahs are being made there, and the fact that a necron scout force tried to land there makes it even more interesting.
Just to nitpick a bit, but the Necron scout force didn't just try to land on Mars, they actually did.
Although, they were destroyed from orbit within seconds of landing.
Five frigates, if I recall.
Though if the fluff was true to the BFG rules those five frigates ought to have torn Battlefleet Solar a new one on their way in and made it out unscathed.
Frankly, as much as I love the HH ad mech rules (I have the 2nd book mostly for that reason) and I really like the infantry models that FW has produced, I don't find their vehicles to be very inspired. So far there are the two tanks with the large cannons that look all clockwork/steampunk themed with huge gears and exposed coils. Plus it has that similar WW1 tank design like the landraider. The other is a train-like transport which I don't see as being very mechanicum or "advanced" in terms of 40k.
At least if GW tries their hand at it you know theyre going to do something very creative and visually striking (at least when they get it right). Still, its would be good to see them formally introduced as a 40k army as it is clear there is a serious fanbase for it that would buy ad mech models in GW stores if they could rather than go through the trouble of getting it from FW or some other 3rd party site.
CthuluIsSpy wrote: If I can ally them if Necrons, I will be very happy.
I want the machine-cultists that were hinted back in 3rd ed, dammit.
One thing that they will never be able to do is ally with Necrons. They for sure will be cometh the apocalypse.
One of the very rules of the Mechanicum is that a soul-less machine is the very anathema of existence and therefore Necrons are basically a no go
You never read the 3rd ed Necron codex, it seems
And all the fluff since that mentions the cult of the Dragon
Can anyone actually tell me where all this fluff is? Outside of the Mechanicum novel, which was written in the dark days of the 3rd Ed codex and doesn't fit particularly well with the Newcron fluff, I don't know where all this Cult of the Dragon nonsense is coming from. There's a load of waffle about it on the 40k wikia, but it amounts to fanfic as far as I can tell since the only source cited is Mechanicum, and if you check the more reliable Lexicanum wiki you get a three-sentence summation that amounts to "see Mechanicum".
I know I go on about this, but it annoys the hell out of me. There was already a "way in" for involving Necrons and other alien races with the Mechanicus through the Xenarites faction, there's no justification for the ridiculous Dragon nonsense beyond "hey guise we made Necrons into an army and decided to shoehorn them into every existing faction's history, so the Mechanicus are just xenos stooges now K?". If people like Necrons, play Necrons.
There's a bit of fluff in the 3rd ed codex, where Abaddon interrogates a demon about strange things happening on Mars. According to the demon, there's a place on mars where souls are discarded.
It's strongly implied that Pariahs are being made there, and the fact that a necron scout force tried to land there makes it even more interesting.
There's a another bit of fluff about a tech-priest going insane and ripping out all of his bionics, rambling about how everything the tech-priests worship is a lie.
There is a small blurb in the codex about the Void Dragon, about how it's a C'tan with a certain affinity with machines and technology.
However much we would like to ignore the Matt Ward 5th Ed codex we cannot guys. The history for all intents and purposes had a bit of a 'rewrite' and most of the 3rd Ed stuff is deemed MIA until we see the new Necron dex. Yes there are cults which could be considered supplements of an ad mech force but your generic 'Insert Ad Mech Cult' here is not going to be allying with Necrons under current fluff. That's kind of what my point is. Feel free to pull it apart with a codex 4 editions old though.
The Void Dragon was subdued by the Emperor and imprisoned on Mars. I think (my own conjecture) since the Void Dragon is the primal incarnation of all things tech, the Mechanicum took interest and did what they do best. Dissection. This might have uncovered an undeniable truth that the Void Dragon is in fact the same entity they've been calling Ominissah, the machine spirit. I'm sure this revelation was shocking and divided the Mechanicum's tech priests internally. The rift might have brought rise to the cult in Illuminati fashion.
If I were GW, my "End Times" campaign would surely be immersed in this fantastic fluff. Machine cult releases Void Dragon, cult agents reveal themselves, the Imperium divides once again, except this threat is not just some pittance of a Chaos god pantheon, this is an all powerful C'tan space god.
Necrons could play a major role in this second heresy, by supporting both sides of the war, or playing the Imperium against itself even more so that the Necrons can unfold their ultimate plan. The enslavement of all humanity, and mass bio transference, returning the Necrontyr to flesh.
Just my spin on it. I'm actually doing a campaign with my friends, that is the preface for this cannon, and reveals the first secret dealings between the Imperium and Necrons and their exchange of services which give birth the some of the more esoteric wargear employed by the Officio Assassinorum ( Etherim, Phase Blades, Neural Shredders, etc..).
Kosake wrote: But I wonder, with all those imperial factions, do people even find xeno-players to fight anymore?
Do they want to? Most of them seem more than happy to fight against nothing but other Marine armies, and the popularity of the Horus Heresy/30k seems to lend credence to that. Marine players also whine endlessly on the rare occasion they do fight a xenos army because of how "overpowered" they all are.
djdutton wrote: Frankly, as much as I love the HH ad mech rules (I have the 2nd book mostly for that reason) and I really like the infantry models that FW has produced, I don't find their vehicles to be very inspired. So far there are the two tanks with the large cannons that look all clockwork/steampunk themed with huge gears and exposed coils. Plus it has that similar WW1 tank design like the landraider. The other is a train-like transport which I don't see as being very mechanicum or "advanced" in terms of 40k.
At least if GW tries their hand at it you know theyre going to do something very creative and visually striking (at least when they get it right). Still, its would be good to see them formally introduced as a 40k army as it is clear there is a serious fanbase for it that would buy ad mech models in GW stores if they could rather than go through the trouble of getting it from FW or some other 3rd party site.
While I agree with you on FW's mechanicum tanks, I don't think that GW doing mechanicum automatically means "creative" and "striking". There are a good number of 40k models GW did, that are aesthetically weak.
FW's two gun tanks basically follow the arts depiction of Mechanicum tanks, but they dropped the visual cues that made them look more of a blend of IG and SM technology and dropped the more interesting distinctions like mechandrite, and some of the aesymetries. I think it goes to the fact that unless FW sells upgrade kits for a model, its largely meant to go together one way. GW on the other hand will have the benefit of making a kit that can have alot of extra pieces that will allow these vehicles to be built more like the personalized constructs of a techpriest that the artwork depicts. If GW does that then they'll have a leg up over FW's models.
Kosake wrote: But I wonder, with all those imperial factions, do people even find xeno-players to fight anymore?
Do they want to? Most of them seem more than happy to fight against nothing but other Marine armies, and the popularity of the Horus Heresy/30k seems to lend credence to that. Marine players also whine endlessly on the rare occasion they do fight a xenos army because of how "overpowered" they all are.
They are?? I've seen many 30k armies, in fact the local club allows 30k vs 40k and allow them to stomp the 40k armies, I'm not sure if I have the heart to play anymore.
If the AM appear ill get some simply because I want to encourage more diversity within 40k honestly. However if the RH Sisters KS is at the same time the KS will win simply because I want sisters.
CthuluIsSpy wrote: If I can ally them if Necrons, I will be very happy.
I want the machine-cultists that were hinted back in 3rd ed, dammit.
One thing that they will never be able to do is ally with Necrons. They for sure will be cometh the apocalypse.
One of the very rules of the Mechanicum is that a soul-less machine is the very anathema of existence and therefore Necrons are basically a no go
You never read the 3rd ed Necron codex, it seems
And all the fluff since that mentions the cult of the Dragon
Can anyone actually tell me where all this fluff is? Outside of the Mechanicum novel, which was written in the dark days of the 3rd Ed codex and doesn't fit particularly well with the Newcron fluff, I don't know where all this Cult of the Dragon nonsense is coming from. There's a load of waffle about it on the 40k wikia, but it amounts to fanfic as far as I can tell since the only source cited is Mechanicum, and if you check the more reliable Lexicanum wiki you get a three-sentence summation that amounts to "see Mechanicum".
I know I go on about this, but it annoys the hell out of me. There was already a "way in" for involving Necrons and other alien races with the Mechanicus through the Xenarites faction, there's no justification for the ridiculous Dragon nonsense beyond "hey guise we made Necrons into an army and decided to shoehorn them into every existing faction's history, so the Mechanicus are just xenos stooges now K?". If people like Necrons, play Necrons.
There's a bit of fluff in the 3rd ed codex, where Abaddon interrogates a demon about strange things happening on Mars. According to the demon, there's a place on mars where souls are discarded.
It's strongly implied that Pariahs are being made there, and the fact that a necron scout force tried to land there makes it even more interesting.
There's a another bit of fluff about a tech-priest going insane and ripping out all of his bionics, rambling about how everything the tech-priests worship is a lie.
There is a small blurb in the codex about the Void Dragon, about how it's a C'tan with a certain affinity with machines and technology.
In Mechanicum they never actully called it the void dragon, they only called it the "Dragon of Mars".
CthuluIsSpy wrote: If I can ally them if Necrons, I will be very happy.
I want the machine-cultists that were hinted back in 3rd ed, dammit.
One thing that they will never be able to do is ally with Necrons. They for sure will be cometh the apocalypse.
One of the very rules of the Mechanicum is that a soul-less machine is the very anathema of existence and therefore Necrons are basically a no go
You never read the 3rd ed Necron codex, it seems
And all the fluff since that mentions the cult of the Dragon
Can anyone actually tell me where all this fluff is? Outside of the Mechanicum novel, which was written in the dark days of the 3rd Ed codex and doesn't fit particularly well with the Newcron fluff, I don't know where all this Cult of the Dragon nonsense is coming from. There's a load of waffle about it on the 40k wikia, but it amounts to fanfic as far as I can tell since the only source cited is Mechanicum, and if you check the more reliable Lexicanum wiki you get a three-sentence summation that amounts to "see Mechanicum".
I know I go on about this, but it annoys the hell out of me. There was already a "way in" for involving Necrons and other alien races with the Mechanicus through the Xenarites faction, there's no justification for the ridiculous Dragon nonsense beyond "hey guise we made Necrons into an army and decided to shoehorn them into every existing faction's history, so the Mechanicus are just xenos stooges now K?". If people like Necrons, play Necrons.
There's a bit of fluff in the 3rd ed codex, where Abaddon interrogates a demon about strange things happening on Mars. According to the demon, there's a place on mars where souls are discarded.
It's strongly implied that Pariahs are being made there, and the fact that a necron scout force tried to land there makes it even more interesting.
There's a another bit of fluff about a tech-priest going insane and ripping out all of his bionics, rambling about how everything the tech-priests worship is a lie.
There is a small blurb in the codex about the Void Dragon, about how it's a C'tan with a certain affinity with machines and technology.
Ah OK, thanks. See, I knew those things, but I didn't connect them with the whole "the AdMech exists because Dragon" nonsense because they're written to allow that kind of ambiguity. Things are implied, or hinted at, or skirted around - all of that's fine, it lets people take or leave or adapt what they prefer. The issue with Mechanicum, and with the Cult of the Dragon as it's presented by some people, is that there's no room for that, or at least there wasn't with the old Necron codex; thankfully you can reinterpret most of the related imagery in Mechanicum in light of the Newcrons fluff to mean something entirely different. That's why I'm anxious about what GW would put in a modern AdMech codex - they seem to have lost that ability to write fluff that can be taken in multiple ways, now they just fart out some "AWESUM SPLOSHUNZ *guitar solo*" drek from the perspective of the omniscient narrator that leaves no room for interpretation.
Kosake wrote: But I wonder, with all those imperial factions, do people even find xeno-players to fight anymore?
Do they want to? Most of them seem more than happy to fight against nothing but other Marine armies, and the popularity of the Horus Heresy/30k seems to lend credence to that. Marine players also whine endlessly on the rare occasion they do fight a xenos army because of how "overpowered" they all are.
They are?? I've seen many 30k armies, in fact the local club allows 30k vs 40k and allow them to stomp the 40k armies, I'm not sure if I have the heart to play anymore.
If the AM appear ill get some simply because I want to encourage more diversity within 40k honestly. However if the RH Sisters KS is at the same time the KS will win simply because I want sisters.
30K is pretty well balanced in its own sphere but most stuff will fall apart upon contact with foreign elements (Tau, Eldar, Etc.)
The FWFAQs confirmed HH stuff is A okay as long as you do not use LOW. I've only used my 30k list against 40k lists and only about two out of five of those games I won (the last one taking massive casualties.)
djdutton wrote: Frankly, as much as I love the HH ad mech rules (I have the 2nd book mostly for that reason) and I really like the infantry models that FW has produced, I don't find their vehicles to be very inspired. So far there are the two tanks with the large cannons that look all clockwork/steampunk themed with huge gears and exposed coils. Plus it has that similar WW1 tank design like the landraider. The other is a train-like transport which I don't see as being very mechanicum or "advanced" in terms of 40k.
At least if GW tries their hand at it you know theyre going to do something very creative and visually striking (at least when they get it right). Still, its would be good to see them formally introduced as a 40k army as it is clear there is a serious fanbase for it that would buy ad mech models in GW stores if they could rather than go through the trouble of getting it from FW or some other 3rd party site.
While I agree with you on FW's mechanicum tanks, I don't think that GW doing mechanicum automatically means "creative" and "striking". There are a good number of 40k models GW did, that are aesthetically weak.
FW's two gun tanks basically follow the arts depiction of Mechanicum tanks, but they dropped the visual cues that made them look more of a blend of IG and SM technology and dropped the more interesting distinctions like mechandrite, and some of the aesymetries. I think it goes to the fact that unless FW sells upgrade kits for a model, its largely meant to go together one way. GW on the other hand will have the benefit of making a kit that can have alot of extra pieces that will allow these vehicles to be built more like the personalized constructs of a techpriest that the artwork depicts. If GW does that then they'll have a leg up over FW's models.
In my experience with FW stuff Detail>options while with GW Options>detail.
Both are good in their own ways but honestly I feel better about GeeDubs tanks due to some warping accidents I've seen with their vehicles.
Kosake wrote: But I wonder, with all those imperial factions, do people even find xeno-players to fight anymore?
Do they want to? Most of them seem more than happy to fight against nothing but other Marine armies, and the popularity of the Horus Heresy/30k seems to lend credence to that. Marine players also whine endlessly on the rare occasion they do fight a xenos army because of how "overpowered" they all are.
They are?? I've seen many 30k armies, in fact the local club allows 30k vs 40k and allow them to stomp the 40k armies, I'm not sure if I have the heart to play anymore.
If the AM appear ill get some simply because I want to encourage more diversity within 40k honestly. However if the RH Sisters KS is at the same time the KS will win simply because I want sisters.
30K is pretty well balanced in its own sphere but most stuff will fall apart upon contact with foreign elements (Tau, Eldar, Etc.)
The FWFAQs confirmed HH stuff is A okay as long as you do not use LOW. I've only used my 30k list against 40k lists and only about two out of five of those games I won (the last one taking massive casualties.)
As someone who also plays the army, my experience has been this:
1)30k vs. 40k useing the bassic 40k rules and no LoW and no unbound armies. The 40k armies usely have the advantage. Alot of the best units for the legion list are very expensive, and alot of 40k armies can pack alot more high S/Low AP weapons in their list. But it's close enough that their is nothing to worry about.
2)30k vs. 40k all the standard rules including Lords of war and unbound armies. This isn't even balanced between 40k armies! Me and most people who have spent the money on a 30k army dosen't play this format.
3)30k vs. 40k useing the age of darkness expansion. This adds the 4 FoC choices, and the 25% of your points restriction to Lord of War choices. This in general I have found the most balenced, but in 3000+ point games the 30k armies start to get abit of a advantage because of the huge selection of LoW choices and the fact their is good internal balence between the units in the 30k list. The 40k armies end up maxing out their FoC chart VERY fast due to poor internal balance in alot of the 40k army lists.
I have found 2500 points with the age of darkness expansion has been the best for all players involved, since it lets the xeno players have fun useing the alt FoC charts.
Kosake wrote: But I wonder, with all those imperial factions, do people even find xeno-players to fight anymore?
Do they want to? Most of them seem more than happy to fight against nothing but other Marine armies, and the popularity of the Horus Heresy/30k seems to lend credence to that. Marine players also whine endlessly on the rare occasion they do fight a xenos army because of how "overpowered" they all are.
They are?? I've seen many 30k armies, in fact the local club allows 30k vs 40k and allow them to stomp the 40k armies, I'm not sure if I have the heart to play anymore.
If the AM appear ill get some simply because I want to encourage more diversity within 40k honestly. However if the RH Sisters KS is at the same time the KS will win simply because I want sisters.
30K is pretty well balanced in its own sphere but most stuff will fall apart upon contact with foreign elements (Tau, Eldar, Etc.)
The FWFAQs confirmed HH stuff is A okay as long as you do not use LOW. I've only used my 30k list against 40k lists and only about two out of five of those games I won (the last one taking massive casualties.)
As someone who also plays the army, my experience has been this:
1)30k vs. 40k useing the bassic 40k rules and no LoW and no unbound armies. The 40k armies usely have the advantage. Alot of the best units for the legion list are very expensive, and alot of 40k armies can pack alot more high S/Low AP weapons in their list. But it's close enough that their is nothing to worry about.
2)30k vs. 40k all the standard rules including Lords of war and unbound armies. This isn't even balanced between 40k armies! Me and most people who have spent the money on a 30k army dosen't play this format.
3)30k vs. 40k useing the age of darkness expansion. This adds the 4 FoC choices, and the 25% of your points restriction to Lord of War choices. This in general I have found the most balenced, but in 3000+ point games the 30k armies start to get abit of a advantage because of the huge selection of LoW choices and the fact their is good internal balence between the units in the 30k list. The 40k armies end up maxing out their FoC chart VERY fast due to poor internal balance in alot of the 40k army lists.
I have found 2500 points with the age of darkness expansion has been the best for all players involved, since it lets the xeno players have fun useing the alt FoC charts.
Perhaps that is something I should look at then. LOW is allowed here,probably because everyone wants their uber hero to stomp everything.
Well according to the limited information I have all i could get was the names are really suspect. apart from that, the images could be from an upcoming publication.
djdutton wrote: The other is a train-like transport which I don't see as being very mechanicum or "advanced" in terms of 40k.
dude, the TRIAROS is the PROW of the good ship 'progress'! a greek-ship style ramming die on the front to emboss the omnissiah's tag on crappy xenos hardware FTW!
So I was in my local GW today to buy a few books and one of them was Gods of Mars. The blackshirt asked me if I had heard the rumours and I said yes I had but that the conflicting rumour was that people thought that we might see some plastic SoBs. He said that his 'source' had told him that there were meant to be a box for both but since then he wasn't sure what they might make.
Not much to go on I know but, fingers crossed, GW might really surprise us and we may get some plastic SoBs as well as Mechanicus troops; plus a proper codex, something the blackshirt said he also expected-to-see/will-be-coming-just-not-too-sure-what.
Gogsnik wrote: So I was in my local GW today to buy a few books and one of them was Gods of Mars. The blackshirt asked me if I had heard the rumours and I said yes I had but that the conflicting rumour was that people thought that we might see some plastic SoBs. He said that his 'source' had told him that there were meant to be a box for both but since then he wasn't sure what they might make.
Not much to go on I know but, fingers crossed, GW might really surprise us and we may get some plastic SoBs as well as Mechanicus troops; plus a proper codex, something the blackshirt said he also expected-to-see/will-be-coming-just-not-too-sure-what.
Right, making up your own rumors to hijack this thread.
Its actually a good thing, this thread should be locked already.
Gogsnik wrote: So I was in my local GW today to buy a few books and one of them was Gods of Mars. The blackshirt asked me if I had heard the rumours and I said yes I had but that the conflicting rumour was that people thought that we might see some plastic SoBs. He said that his 'source' had told him that there were meant to be a box for both but since then he wasn't sure what they might make.
Not much to go on I know but, fingers crossed, GW might really surprise us and we may get some plastic SoBs as well as Mechanicus troops; plus a proper codex, something the blackshirt said he also expected-to-see/will-be-coming-just-not-too-sure-what.
Eh this is the usual GW blackshirt answer to any rumours. Oh yes they are. The last 2 gw events where you've been able to ask about stuff they have said Sisters are coming but unless I see pictures now I'm not going to believe it.
I'd be surprised if GW's admech could look better than the armies online made through conversions and kitbashing. There are some excellent Ad Mech armies that really convey the weird horror of the faction, I find the most exciting aspect of Ad Mech forces are the excellent opportunity for the imagination. A manufactured force holds little appeal for me. Similar to inquisition forces, I think the modelling opportunities and unique character creation are much more interesting than buying stuff off the shelf. Regarding Ad Mech, I imagine GW's efforts will seem tame and conservative in comparison with online projects and will be somewhat limited in scope (limited releases with over priced infantry and the obligatory large model on an oval base, etc).
Kid_Kyoto wrote: So do the plastic Skitarii in your imagination look better than the plastic SoBs in your imagination?
Considering that I've been playing for almost 20 years. The last time we had 40k rules was second ed and figures not including Enginseers and Servitors first ed.
It's highly doubtful. Though I kind of doubt a Harlequin codex also.
If I was a betting man my money would be on no AM figures. But some way of giving marines more yes.
Adeptus Mechanicus Rumors - Jan 2015
via an anonymous source on Faeit 212
Ive seen the model so I thought I would chime in and describe the Dunecrawler. Sorry no pictures, it was not possible.
Its a walker with 4 armoured mechanical spider legs. The crew compartment is large metal box angled in the front. There is a small robotic arm in the front with tools and drills on the appendage. The visor for the drivers inside is a slit with optical lenses on the the left hand side of the opening. The Eradication Beamer is big, and looks like a giant conversion beamer, up top there is a gunner with a heavy stubber. I don't know the optional guns, but there are a couple. One that looks like a long barreled autocannon, but has some sort of array attached to it. None of the weapon options look like standard Imperial Weapons.
I also wanted to mention, that this is a Games Workshop release, not Forgeworld.
Right, making up your own rumors to hijack this thread.
Its actually a good thing, this thread should be locked already.
I don't understand what you mean by 'hijack' since my post was on topic for the thread or what you mean by making it up for that matter; I've been a member of Dakka Dakka for over five years and this is the very first time I have information to share about a rumour but you just jump strait to the conclusion that I made the whole thing up
To reiterate, I bought three novels and, pointing at the cover of Gods of Mars the blackshirt asked if I had heard the rumours, which was a sort of follow up to him asking me if I played the game. Seemed like a sales pitch for an upcoming release, nothing more than that.
pretre wrote: Adeptus Mechanicus Rumors - Jan 2015
via an anonymous source on Faeit 212
Ive seen the model so I thought I would chime in and describe the Dunecrawler. Sorry no pictures, it was not possible.
Its a walker with 4 armoured mechanical spider legs. The crew compartment is large metal box angled in the front. There is a small robotic arm in the front with tools and drills on the appendage. The visor for the drivers inside is a slit with optical lenses on the the left hand side of the opening. The Eradication Beamer is big, and looks like a giant conversion beamer, up top there is a gunner with a heavy stubber. I don't know the optional guns, but there are a couple. One that looks like a long barreled autocannon, but has some sort of array attached to it. None of the weapon options look like standard Imperial Weapons.
I also wanted to mention, that this is a Games Workshop release, not Forgeworld.
If this is real, it sounds horrendous. But, I look forward to the inevitable conversion where someone models Kenneth Branagh as the driver.
pretre wrote: Adeptus Mechanicus Rumors - Jan 2015
via an anonymous source on Faeit 212
Ive seen the model so I thought I would chime in and describe the Dunecrawler. Sorry no pictures, it was not possible.
Its a walker with 4 armoured mechanical spider legs. The crew compartment is large metal box angled in the front. There is a small robotic arm in the front with tools and drills on the appendage. The visor for the drivers inside is a slit with optical lenses on the the left hand side of the opening. The Eradication Beamer is big, and looks like a giant conversion beamer, up top there is a gunner with a heavy stubber. I don't know the optional guns, but there are a couple. One that looks like a long barreled autocannon, but has some sort of array attached to it. None of the weapon options look like standard Imperial Weapons.
I also wanted to mention, that this is a Games Workshop release, not Forgeworld.
I read this yesterday, it just makes me feel that it's either confused with a conversion from a necron model. Or it's just untrue.
In part that sounds fake just because of how silly even the internal logic would be. A "Dune" Crawler presumably is built for transport on desert terrain.... Spider-legs would be the opposite to a tread, design sensibility.
Not saying I expect logic to rule the game, but this just has an extra layer of "stupid" which I can't get beyond.
NewTruthNeomaxim wrote: In part that sounds fake just because of how silly even the internal logic would be. A "Dune" Crawler presumably is built for transport on desert terrain.... Spider-legs would be the opposite to a tread, design sensibility.
Not saying I expect logic to rule the game, but this just has an extra layer of "stupid" which I can't get beyond.
I imagine it's because it looks cool and from a background point of view is for navigating the Martian dunes and ruins
It certainly has that tinge of retro 50's sci-fi that GW likes to characterize the Mechanicum with. Is it also a David Bowie allusion?-They should just call them the "spiders from Mars"
I still feel skeptical about this release. Both the harlequin and skitarii rumors feel like wishlisting pilled on top of other wishlisting. The walker's description in particular sounds strange, almost like it was concocted of a number of buzz words (i.e. dune crawler, spider legs, other generic AM concepts). However, I could be wrong.
I feel like AM are a hard concept to get down right without just dumping a lot of bionics and other weird things on top. FW has done the best job so far with their robots, but I feel that the tanks are a silly combination of WWI + gears + retrofuturistic guns. GW might be able to get the concept right (as they did with the Knight), but I am not particularly confident.
pretre wrote: Adeptus Mechanicus Rumors - Jan 2015
via an anonymous source on Faeit 212
Ive seen the model so I thought I would chime in and describe the Dunecrawler. Sorry no pictures, it was not possible.
Its a walker with 4 armoured mechanical spider legs. The crew compartment is large metal box angled in the front. There is a small robotic arm in the front with tools and drills on the appendage. The visor for the drivers inside is a slit with optical lenses on the the left hand side of the opening. The Eradication Beamer is big, and looks like a giant conversion beamer, up top there is a gunner with a heavy stubber. I don't know the optional guns, but there are a couple. One that looks like a long barreled autocannon, but has some sort of array attached to it. None of the weapon options look like standard Imperial Weapons.
I also wanted to mention, that this is a Games Workshop release, not Forgeworld.
If this is real, it sounds horrendous. But, I look forward to the inevitable conversion where someone models Kenneth Branagh as the driver.
You actually made me laugh out loud, .
Forgeworld did specify that skitarii were not something that they would be doing (at least for a long time), and the rumours have been very 'skitarii specific'.
I can definitely see them doing this, especially with the scion dex being released last year, and that only had 5 units. A small release of something that has proven to be popular (forgeworld mechanicum) seems like what GW would look at, with 40k being their main seller, and nearly all the codexes in hardback now.
I think this is the typical case of "rumor starts, has some validity, then 50 other wannabe rumor mongers want to jump onto it".
Skitarii as a minor attachment-only codex would be an easy one like Tempestus and a smart choice by GW. Regardless of people whining about other army choices that should be first, if Harlequin and Skitarii end up true I'll personally be very happy.
NewTruthNeomaxim wrote: In part that sounds fake just because of how silly even the internal logic would be. A "Dune" Crawler presumably is built for transport on desert terrain.... Spider-legs would be the opposite to a tread, design sensibility.
Not saying I expect logic to rule the game, but this just has an extra layer of "stupid" which I can't get beyond.
The airplanes have all the aerodynamics of a brick, doors are located right in front of weapon-sponsoons, exhaust pipes are right in front of vision slits/air intakes and you wonder that they'd choose legs instead of treads for desert terrain? Clearly, you have no understanding of the workings of the omnissiah!
NewTruthNeomaxim wrote: In part that sounds fake just because of how silly even the internal logic would be. A "Dune" Crawler presumably is built for transport on desert terrain.... Spider-legs would be the opposite to a tread, design sensibility.
Not saying I expect logic to rule the game, but this just has an extra layer of "stupid" which I can't get beyond.
The airplanes have all the aerodynamics of a brick, doors are located right in front of weapon-sponsoons, exhaust pipes are right in front of vision slits/air intakes and you wonder that they'd choose legs instead of treads for desert terrain? Clearly, you have no understanding of the workings of the omnissiah!
NewTruthNeomaxim wrote: In part that sounds fake just because of how silly even the internal logic would be. A "Dune" Crawler presumably is built for transport on desert terrain.... Spider-legs would be the opposite to a tread, design sensibility.
Not saying I expect logic to rule the game, but this just has an extra layer of "stupid" which I can't get beyond.
The airplanes have all the aerodynamics of a brick, doors are located right in front of weapon-sponsoons, exhaust pipes are right in front of vision slits/air intakes and you wonder that they'd choose legs instead of treads for desert terrain? Clearly, you have no understanding of the workings of the omnissiah!
Are you doubting the holy machine?
I doubt any mechanic who spends more time praying than studying technical instructions... but I guess that'd be the whole flavour of this faction, if they make it.
Tannhauser42 wrote: As much as I would love a GW AdMech force, I doubt it will be as different, fun, and interesting as the 30K Mechanicum from FW, so I'll probably just stick with that.
I'm with you on this. If GW plastic gets it's hands on ad mech they would destroy them. I'm looking forward to some gritty skitarii models from FW.
NewTruthNeomaxim wrote: In part that sounds fake just because of how silly even the internal logic would be. A "Dune" Crawler presumably is built for transport on desert terrain.... Spider-legs would be the opposite to a tread, design sensibility.
Not saying I expect logic to rule the game, but this just has an extra layer of "stupid" which I can't get beyond.
The airplanes have all the aerodynamics of a brick, doors are located right in front of weapon-sponsoons, exhaust pipes are right in front of vision slits/air intakes and you wonder that they'd choose legs instead of treads for desert terrain? Clearly, you have no understanding of the workings of the omnissiah!
Are you doubting the holy machine?
Actually, Heir of the Void had an awesome rationalizationexplanation for how Imperium vehicles can fly (with a little help from me).
Heir of the Void wrote:My personal theory about how these flyers work is that they all project a weak energy field ahead of them, in a cone or other nice aerodynamic shape, and let that contact the atmosphere, instead of the flying potato that is the main body of the aircraft. That makes it make slightly more sense.....
SisterSydney wrote:Holy feth, what if Imperial aircraft all use an energy field around the hull to supercavitate? That would be AWESOME....
Heir of the Void wrote:Holy Feth, That's AMAZING! Suddenly everything makes sense.
To extend this theory, the energy field used to allow the vehicle to Supercavitate functions as a Lifting Body, so it generated the lift rather than the stubby and questionably designed wings. This then connects to the poorly designed wings, which actually serve to extend the lifting body supercavitation buble rather than actually generate lift on their own.
For those of you who don't know, cavitation is the formation of short-lived bubbles of steam behind a body moving in water, or low-pressure zones behind a body moving in air. Supercavitation is the formation of long-lived or at least stable, low-pressure zones behind a moving body. Because the Supercavitating body is in contact with fewer molecules of atmosphere/water, the friction it experiences is reduced, allowing for vastly higher speeds, like two to three hundred knots underwater.
sadly the super-cavitation effect only works if the steam produced can flow efficiently and evenly all over the structure to the rear; any unevenness in that and the hull gets subjected to the surface tension of water at whatever speed its traveling at which i think would induce some "catastrophic existence failure"
sometime last year i think a Chinese scientist worked out how to steer a super-cavitating vehicle but i don't remember too much about it apart from 'steering fins' being out of the question because of the stresses involved.
i also seem to remember someone mentioning that the best shape was basically a coke bottle and there might be rights issues over the shape but there was doubt because its a vehicle not a 'food' container.
the US air force did look at firing laser beams and microwaves ahead of aircraft to induce a similar effect for a plane but i didn't hear much more about it; so it was either fitted to the B2 'spirit' and is classified or it didn't work at all and is now kept quiet as a way of convincing their perceived enemies to spend resources and effort to find out that it didn't work for themselves.
you gotta love the CIA. they find out the truth. so they know how to muddy the water properly. :]
SirDonlad wrote: sadly the super-cavitation effect only works if the steam produced can flow efficiently and evenly all over the structure to the rear; any unevenness in that and the hull gets subjected to the surface tension of water at whatever speed its traveling at which i think would induce some "catastrophic existence failure"...
Aha, we've got handwavium for that: What look like wings on Imperial aircraft are actually force field generators, which project a beautifully smooth & aerodynamic bubble all around the hull. (Heir of the Void's idea). It's this forcefield that supercavitates; the hull isn't in contact with moving air at all.
Well darnok, over at warseer, has said that theyll come in february/march. Though, i must admit im starting to suspect hes getting trolled, with all the crazy rumours hes spewing recently ( harlequin, end of warhammer in its current form)
streetsamurai wrote: Well darnok, over at warseer, has said that theyll come in february/march. Though, i must admit im starting to suspect hes getting trolled, with all the crazy rumours hes spewing recently ( harlequin, end of warhammer in its current form)
The Warhammer thing I don't doubt for a moment. It has Kirbys stink all over it.
SirDonlad wrote: sadly the super-cavitation effect only works if the steam produced can flow efficiently and evenly all over the structure to the rear; any unevenness in that and the hull gets subjected to the surface tension of water at whatever speed its traveling at which i think would induce some "catastrophic existence failure"...
Aha, we've got handwavium for that: What look like wings on Imperial aircraft are actually force field generators, which project a beautifully smooth & aerodynamic bubble all around the hull. (Heir of the Void's idea). It's this forcefield that supercavitates; the hull isn't in contact with moving air at all.
Supercavitating forcefields? That does not explain design features such as the guns pointing at the doors and exhaust pipes pointing at the windows/air intakes. Neither does it add up well with such highly advanced features as christie suspension on the tanks or the tons of exposed joints, gear, power sources on almost all vehicles.
Supercavitating forcefields? That does not explain design features such as the guns pointing at the doors and exhaust pipes pointing at the windows/air intakes. Neither does it add up well with such highly advanced features as christie suspension on the tanks or the tons of exposed joints, gear, power sources on almost all vehicles.
okay, im up for a challenge, but not re-writing physics to include the fourth wall!
as a mechanicum tech-adept (Ordo Reductor FTW!) i've always considered carrying imperium troops in my moving testament to the glory of the omnissiah a necessary evil - it's easier to make a robot to keep my landraiders clean than it is to make a billion robots to rid my forge of organic matter for good and keep it that way. (the guns are a reminder to wipe their feet BEFORE getting in) :]
if the people i'm taking on-board are so weak that they need such trivialities as 'oxygen' they should be glad to asphyxiate in such an honorable vehicle!
SisterSydney wrote: A vehicle's guns point at its own doors because, ever since 30K, the Imperium's main concern has been treason, rather than external foes? Maybe?
SirDonlad wrote: as a mechanicum tech-adept (Ordo Reductor FTW!) i've always considered carrying imperium troops in my moving testament to the glory of the omnissiah a necessary evil - it's easier to make a robot to keep my landraiders clean than it is to make a billion robots to rid my forge of organic matter for good and keep it that way. (the guns are a reminder to wipe their feet BEFORE getting in) :] if the people i'm taking on-board are so weak that they need such trivialities as 'oxygen' they should be glad to asphyxiate in such an honorable vehicle!
SISTER RAVEN: Typical Mechanicum arrogance.
SISTER KORIANDER: Yeah, it's like they think we're all a bunch of ignorant technophobes.
SISTER RAVEN: I don't trust anything they...
RAVEN'S COMPUTER: You've. Got. Mail!
KORIANDER & RAVEN: Aaaaaaaaah!
SISTER KORIANDER: It spoke! The machine spoke!
SISTER RAVEN: Tech-heresy!
SISTER KORIANDER: Abominable Intelligence!
KORIANDER & RAVEN: Purge it with fire!
[Later, at the Adeptus Mechanicum support desk]
TECH-ADEPT: You. Need. A. New. Workstation. AGAIN?
SisterSydney wrote: A vehicle's guns point at its own doors because, ever since 30K, the Imperium's main concern has been treason, rather than external foes? Maybe?
And the gakky suspension is there to not make em too comfortable in there so they get out and fight for the emprah! faster..?
And the gakky suspension is there to not make em too comfortable in there so they get out and fight for the emprah! faster..?
yeah, the LR requires a few 'miracle exceptions'.
the 30k universe does provide a bunch of faux-tech though - imagine if we had 'grav-suspensor units' for real?
anything heavy would be bristling with them!
SisterSydney wrote: A vehicle's guns point at its own doors because, ever since 30K, the Imperium's main concern has been treason, rather than external foes? Maybe
I'd guess a lot of the poor vehicle design elements are a consequence of the heroic 28mm scale; consider how bulky and disproportionate a marine and his weapon are, the vehicles are equally as distorted. A more properly scaled 40k vehicle many of the elements like guns would be smaller and less obtrusive. With modern helicopters and tanks it's possible to point guns into the vehicle or near the hatches.
NewTruthNeomaxim wrote: In part that sounds fake just because of how silly even the internal logic would be. A "Dune" Crawler presumably is built for transport on desert terrain.... Spider-legs would be the opposite to a tread, design sensibility.
Not saying I expect logic to rule the game, but this just has an extra layer of "stupid" which I can't get beyond.
The airplanes have all the aerodynamics of a brick, doors are located right in front of weapon-sponsoons, exhaust pipes are right in front of vision slits/air intakes and you wonder that they'd choose legs instead of treads for desert terrain? Clearly, you have no understanding of the workings of the omnissiah!
I've always found it odd that the Imperium has the tech to make producing trillions of lasgun cell batteries that are compact enough to fit inside conventional size magazines and powerful enough to project beams of coherent light hundreds of meters with enough strength to penetrate a human torso and do so dozens of times before running out of power and be able to be recharged numerous times during their useful lifespan but then uses giant clunky combustion engines for all their vehicles. They can even scale up the batteries to power lascannons while still being small enough to be man portable. The nigh magical level of battery technological is considered commonplace but yet is never fully utilized to its utmost potential.
NewTruthNeomaxim wrote: In part that sounds fake just because of how silly even the internal logic would be. A "Dune" Crawler presumably is built for transport on desert terrain.... Spider-legs would be the opposite to a tread, design sensibility.
Not saying I expect logic to rule the game, but this just has an extra layer of "stupid" which I can't get beyond.
The airplanes have all the aerodynamics of a brick, doors are located right in front of weapon-sponsoons, exhaust pipes are right in front of vision slits/air intakes and you wonder that they'd choose legs instead of treads for desert terrain? Clearly, you have no understanding of the workings of the omnissiah!
I've always found it odd that the Imperium has the tech to make producing trillions of lasgun cell batteries that are compact enough to fit inside conventional size magazines and powerful enough to project beams of coherent light hundreds of meters with enough strength to penetrate a human torso and do so dozens of times before running out of power and be able to be recharged numerous times during their useful lifespan but then uses giant clunky combustion engines for all their vehicles. They can even scale up the batteries to power lascannons while still being small enough to be man portable. The nigh magical level of battery technological is considered commonplace but yet is never fully utilized to its utmost potential.
Aren't the exhaust pipes just there to let off excess heat / vapour? Even nuclear reactors use steam turbines.
NewTruthNeomaxim wrote: In part that sounds fake just because of how silly even the internal logic would be. A "Dune" Crawler presumably is built for transport on desert terrain.... Spider-legs would be the opposite to a tread, design sensibility.
Not saying I expect logic to rule the game, but this just has an extra layer of "stupid" which I can't get beyond.
The airplanes have all the aerodynamics of a brick, doors are located right in front of weapon-sponsoons, exhaust pipes are right in front of vision slits/air intakes and you wonder that they'd choose legs instead of treads for desert terrain? Clearly, you have no understanding of the workings of the omnissiah!
I've always found it odd that the Imperium has the tech to make producing trillions of lasgun cell batteries that are compact enough to fit inside conventional size magazines and powerful enough to project beams of coherent light hundreds of meters with enough strength to penetrate a human torso and do so dozens of times before running out of power and be able to be recharged numerous times during their useful lifespan but then uses giant clunky combustion engines for all their vehicles. They can even scale up the batteries to power lascannons while still being small enough to be man portable. The nigh magical level of battery technological is considered commonplace but yet is never fully utilized to its utmost potential.
Aren't the exhaust pipes just there to let off excess heat / vapour? Even nuclear reactors use steam turbines.
Possibly for the SM vehicles but in all of the IG/AM novels and fluff I've read since 2nd Ed the Imperial Army uses tanks, trucks, APCs, etc. that run on combustion engines. Well, except for back when the army army had access to jetbikes, landspeeders, landraiders, rhinos, squats, beastmen, jetpacks and human bombs.
SisterSydney wrote: A vehicle's guns point at its own doors because, ever since 30K, the Imperium's main concern has been treason, rather than external foes? Maybe?
And the gakky suspension is there to not make em too comfortable in there so they get out and fight for the emprah! faster..?
I know there's not supposed to be anything similar to military intelligence in the Imperium of Man, but here's yet another idea. It used to be in the days of the Soviet Union that certain vehicle features were aibrushed out of view when photos were revealed to the public (and thus, Western military forces.) Some would be subtle like a change in intakes, others would delete primary weapon systems, like nuclear missile cradles. This was done to confuse enemy intel services. The color plates in Imperial Armour may have been altered for such a reason as they're supposed to be in-universe renderings.
Another far more likely explanation is this: Arhkhan Land designs the Land Raider. He gets paranoid all of a sudden and makes a subtle change to his plans that put the side weapons behind the side exit doors. He does this to feth with people who would want to steal his plans and take credit. The Admech, millennia later, find these altered plans, declare them holy and start production. No one says a thing because "That's how we've always done, it, apprentice." Facepalming ensues on a galactic scale.
NewTruthNeomaxim wrote: In part that sounds fake just because of how silly even the internal logic would be. A "Dune" Crawler presumably is built for transport on desert terrain.... Spider-legs would be the opposite to a tread, design sensibility.
Not saying I expect logic to rule the game, but this just has an extra layer of "stupid" which I can't get beyond.
The airplanes have all the aerodynamics of a brick, doors are located right in front of weapon-sponsoons, exhaust pipes are right in front of vision slits/air intakes and you wonder that they'd choose legs instead of treads for desert terrain? Clearly, you have no understanding of the workings of the omnissiah!
I've always found it odd that the Imperium has the tech to make producing trillions of lasgun cell batteries that are compact enough to fit inside conventional size magazines and powerful enough to project beams of coherent light hundreds of meters with enough strength to penetrate a human torso and do so dozens of times before running out of power and be able to be recharged numerous times during their useful lifespan but then uses giant clunky combustion engines for all their vehicles. They can even scale up the batteries to power lascannons while still being small enough to be man portable. The nigh magical level of battery technological is considered commonplace but yet is never fully utilized to its utmost potential.
Aren't the exhaust pipes just there to let off excess heat / vapour? Even nuclear reactors use steam turbines.
You are highly welcome to superheated/radioactive/superheated-radioactive steam to the face in either case once you try to peek out the nearest window.
NewTruthNeomaxim wrote: In part that sounds fake just because of how silly even the internal logic would be. A "Dune" Crawler presumably is built for transport on desert terrain.... Spider-legs would be the opposite to a tread, design sensibility.
Not saying I expect logic to rule the game, but this just has an extra layer of "stupid" which I can't get beyond.
The airplanes have all the aerodynamics of a brick, doors are located right in front of weapon-sponsoons, exhaust pipes are right in front of vision slits/air intakes and you wonder that they'd choose legs instead of treads for desert terrain? Clearly, you have no understanding of the workings of the omnissiah!
I've always found it odd that the Imperium has the tech to make producing trillions of lasgun cell batteries that are compact enough to fit inside conventional size magazines and powerful enough to project beams of coherent light hundreds of meters with enough strength to penetrate a human torso and do so dozens of times before running out of power and be able to be recharged numerous times during their useful lifespan but then uses giant clunky combustion engines for all their vehicles. They can even scale up the batteries to power lascannons while still being small enough to be man portable. The nigh magical level of battery technological is considered commonplace but yet is never fully utilized to its utmost potential.
Aren't the exhaust pipes just there to let off excess heat / vapour? Even nuclear reactors use steam turbines.
You are highly welcome to superheated/radioactive/superheated-radioactive steam to the face in either case once you try to peek out the nearest window.
Just spoke with my friend who is working on a certain MMO using the 40K IP. He was asking his contacts in the UK if he could get a deal on a Mechanicum force from Forge World. He was told to wait until the end of March, it would be worth his while.
Mathieu Raymond wrote: Just spoke with my friend who is working on a certain MMO using the 40K IP. He was asking his contacts in the UK if he could get a deal on a Mechanicum force from Forge World. He was told to wait until the end of March, it would be worth his while.
Mathieu Raymond wrote: Just spoke with my friend who is working on a certain MMO using the 40K IP. He was asking his contacts in the UK if he could get a deal on a Mechanicum force from Forge World. He was told to wait until the end of March, it would be worth his while.
Forgeworld sale!
Or it could just be that GW/FW are putting together a swag box for his company. A buddy of mine was working at EA around 2001 when they got GW's license for a game. GW reps came in with a few boxes of WHFB, WH40k, and unit boxes for both as swag for the EA folks working on their game. My buddy played WHFB but not 40k, so gave me a starter box, Tac Marine box and a couple other things out of the deal.
If you want to hold your breath for a sale at the end of March, go ahead, but your buddy's company may be getting some FW for their good work for the cause.
Mathieu Raymond wrote: Just spoke with my friend who is working on a certain MMO using the 40K IP. He was asking his contacts in the UK if he could get a deal on a Mechanicum force from Forge World. He was told to wait until the end of March, it would be worth his while.
Forgeworld sale!
Say-uhl? What is this "say-uhl" you speak of, for I've never heard of one when speaking of anything GW related.
He reiterated how giddy he was this weekend. And of course, they get shipments. Unfortunately, after release, so I can't even take shaky, out of focus pictures.
Mathieu Raymond wrote: He reiterated how giddy he was this weekend. And of course, they get shipments. Unfortunately, after release, so I can't even take shaky, out of focus pictures.
Why don't leaks take good photos...
Seriously, I take better quality photos while desperately answering PMs.
You haven't spent time on Facebook, I guess? The number of blurry, out of focus, flashy photos that still make it onto people's profiles is staggering.
2 codices? First thought that comes to mind is that they will do like Daemons, and do two books that share most/all of a model range. Adeptus Mechanicus/ Dark Mechanicum springs to mind. AdMech could have thesay the Techmarine Thunderfire cannon and the Knight as a Lord of War, while Dark Mech could toss in Warsmiths, Forgefiends, Defilers, and the Baledrake.
Well, what other two could it be? Unless it's the Codex and then a Supplement, like they did for Dark Eldar (Dark Eldar and Haemonculus Covens)
It could be 'Adeptus Mechanicus' and then 'Mechanicus of Mars' or something like that.
I'd love to believe they'd do Adeptus Mechanicus and Dark Mechanicum, but that would mean GW actually has to acknowledge something other than the Imperium.
75hastings69;7385810 wrote:No it doesn't. There's no bad marines codex, I'm specifically referring to the renegades in the HH box set. One guy asked if there would be CSM, I said that technically yes, as the renegades from the HH are technically CSM *even if very early on the road to being CSM)
YAY!!!!!
AFAIK a kill team type thing, all the types of assassins in plastic. Not sure of any other contents or specifics. Like I say 40k isn't my thing.
Just like the spoof Countdown where the words coming out were like OMETHINGS etc and the guys were declaring words of 4 and 5 Think that's was noel Edmunds gotcha type thing, poor old madeley didn't know what to do with himself.
So from the list we have:-
Admech Codex & models (full release)
**** Codex & models (Harelquin sized release already mentioned on thread)
**** Codex & models (Harelquin sized release already mentioned on thread)
HH Standalone box game, on sale for a few months, then models become part of 30k range.
Assassins Standalone box game, on sale for a few months, then models become part of the 40k range.
A lot of great stuff coming for 40k. I had hoped they would not restart the Codex cycle soon and it looks like GW does smaller factions now and not CSM V7. Good news
Yeah, and also, Chaos will be split up into 4 books, each dedicated to a god, we will see plastic SoB and probably a plastic tunderhawk (meant for 30k) carrying the missing ork-themed landscape from the last rumored starter kit...
Seriously, there is so much stuff out there right now, that I seriously doubt that even 30% will come true within the year. Fancy new subfactions and expanding the line is nice and good, but I think GW is pretty much set on releasing a new codex every other month or so, and that's enough work as it is, unless they think the 6th and 7th-dexes are good for now and do not require any redo for a good while.
Hm... now that might actually be the case, as the rules are horrible beyond redemption, and they might think that tinkering with them won't make them any profit, so they'll just broaden the range or expand onto FW territory...
MajorWesJanson wrote: 2 codices? First thought that comes to mind is that they will do like Daemons, and do two books that share most/all of a model range. Adeptus Mechanicus/ Dark Mechanicum springs to mind. AdMech could have thesay the Techmarine Thunderfire cannon and the Knight as a Lord of War, while Dark Mech could toss in Warsmiths, Forgefiends, Defilers, and the Baledrake.
Just a thought based on the 2 codices line
I'd be surprised if they reuse any existing units in a new range's codex as they haven't so far. They seem to be happy to push the allies approach to expand the units on offer to an army rather than expand the codex. There is no reason they couldn't have added some of the Eldar or DE units especially the transports to the new harlequin codex, but didn't.
Since harry and Hasting are pretty the gods of rumourmongering, I think this is pretty much a lock.
I'm ridiculously excited by this assasin self contained games, as it seems it will be the 40k skirmish games ive been waiting for for years. I'm wondering if they'll also put some plastic inquisitor in it, and who will be the vilains in it,
The deathwatch release is a bit weird to me, since deathwatch is pretty much marines from different chapter, I don't see what kind of kit they could make for them,
streetsamurai wrote: Since harry and Hasting are pretty the gods of rumourmongering, I think this is pretty much a lock.
I'm ridiculously excited by this assasin self contained games, as it seems it will be the 40k skirmish games ive been waiting for for years. I'm wondering if they'll also put some plastic inquisitor in it, and who will be the vilains in it,
An Inquisitor, a crazed Priest, crazed Techie, any number of things.
The deathwatch release is a bit weird to me, since deathwatch is pretty much marines from different chapter, I don't see what kind of kit they could make for them,
A pretty cool one?
The Deathwatch does have some weaponry unique to them and it would be a brilliant move to release a Deathwatch kit/"faction", since they could be taken by any of the Imperial army lists.
Harry is also pretty good:
Harry from Warseer - Total rumors: (39 TRUE) / (7 FALSE) / (2 PARTIALLY TRUE/VAGUE)
Lords of Wargaming hasn't been around as long, but has a very good record:
Lords of Wargaming - Total rumors: (21 TRUE) / (0 FALSE) / (1 PARTIALLY TRUE/VAGUE)
pretre wrote: Just to make sure we are level set. Hastings does have a pretty good record, especially since he predicts far out and has worked over a long time:
Harry is also pretty good:
Harry from Warseer - Total rumors: (39 TRUE) / (7 FALSE) / (2 PARTIALLY TRUE/VAGUE)
Lords of Wargaming hasn't been around as long, but has a very good record:
Lords of Wargaming - Total rumors: (21 TRUE) / (0 FALSE) / (1 PARTIALLY TRUE/VAGUE)
But But .... you missed most of the stuff I got right : ... and two of my false rumours are the same rumour about Bloodbowl coming ...and no less than seven of hastings are about Bloodbowl you have each team as a false rumour .... even though he got all 4 teams right.!!!
Bloodbowl was done ..... it is not our fault that Dreadfleet tanked so badly .... it was shelved.
I could do this rumour by rumour but ....
My point is your rumour record does not take into account what was accurate at the time of posting...and sometimes we have posted months or even years ahead with something like this.
Harry wrote: But But .... you missed most of the stuff I got right : ... and two of my false rumours are the same rumour about Bloodbowl coming ...and no less than seven of hastings are about Bloodbowl you have each team as a false rumour .... even though he got all 4 teams right.!!!
Bloodbowl was done ..... it is not our fault that Dreadfleet tanked so badly .... it was shelved.
I could do this rumour by rumour but ....
My point is your rumour record does not take into account what was accurate at the time of posting...and sometimes we have posted months or even years ahead with something like this.
If you have a rumor that I haven't posted, please PM me a link. I would love to track them (right or wrong).
I fixed the double Bloodbowl.
Hastings predicted multiple bloodbowl things (the multiple teams) and none of them came true. The reason is not something that I can really judge; all I judge is what happens. If BB ends up getting released later and the facts are all correct, I'll reverse his and yours.
Please do it rumor by rumor in my thread if you disagree with anything I tracked. We can't take into account your reasons or the background behind each rumor because those are impossible to prove. All we can do is track what the rumor was and whether it came true.
Yes! I am so excited. I was about to start making plans to proxy Admech stuff with the Necrons Codex! Now I won't have to haha. Exciting times to be an Admech fan, I already have 6 Thallax cohorts, I do hope they find a way to put something in the codex on a 40mm base so I can use them, they are such excellent models after all.
That stand-alone assassins game can't be the Inquisitor skirmish game that was rumored a year or two back, could it?
Really infuriated hearing that BB was halted due to the terrible sales of Dreadfleet- a child could have figured out that game wouldn't be all that popular. So for GW to have stopped BB because the production of a game that nobody wanted resulted in a huge flop....well, I guess they can add this feather to their "we don't do market research!" cap.
Harry wrote:
Bloodbowl was done ..... it is not our fault that Dreadfleet tanked so badly .... it was shelved.
Well, that is true for every rumour that didn't turn out true.
I am sure there're the odd false Natfka-BoLS rumours out there that actually did have a basis in some product mock-up / concept / pre-production thing that simply never made it to a release (granted, most wont, but it's not impossible).
A company like GW, I am sure they throw away at least as many greens and concepts as they actually follow through to release, probably more.
If rumours are "classed" as correct, even though the products were never released, the idea of a "false" rumour ceases to exist unless there is a public release by GW of all things they didn't release that we could cross-reference with genuine rumours.
Wonderwolf wrote: the idea of a "false" rumour ceases to exist unless there is a public release by GW of all things they didn't release that we could cross reference with genuine rumours.
This would be hilarious. GW doesn't tell us what they are releasing, but does tell us what they are not releasing.
pretre wrote: Just to make sure we are level set. Hastings does have a pretty good record, especially since he predicts far out and has worked over a long time:
Harry is also pretty good:
Harry from Warseer - Total rumors: (39 TRUE) / (7 FALSE) / (2 PARTIALLY TRUE/VAGUE)
Lords of Wargaming hasn't been around as long, but has a very good record:
Lords of Wargaming - Total rumors: (21 TRUE) / (0 FALSE) / (1 PARTIALLY TRUE/VAGUE)
But But .... you missed most of the stuff I got right : ... and two of my false rumours are the same rumour about Bloodbowl coming ...and no less than seven of hastings are about Bloodbowl you have each team as a false rumour .... even though he got all 4 teams right.!!!
Bloodbowl was done ..... it is not our fault that Dreadfleet tanked so badly .... it was shelved.
I could do this rumour by rumour but ....
My point is your rumour record does not take into account what was accurate at the time of posting...and sometimes we have posted months or even years ahead with something like this.
Yeah, the tracker is an imperfect system and has been argued with before.
Wonderwolf wrote: the idea of a "false" rumour ceases to exist unless there is a public release by GW of all things they didn't release that we could cross reference with genuine rumours.
This would be hilarious. GW doesn't tell us what they are releasing, but does tell us what they are not releasing.
I could see a pissy one liner in a preamble about the unwashed masses not getting what they thought they wanted.
Yeah, the tracker is an imperfect system and has been argued with before.
How would a perfect system - given GW's current policy of publicity - differentiate between a "false rumour" that is simply made-up nonsense and a "false rumour" that was true, until they cancelled the product last-minute .. say .. because the moulds proved problematic and the whole thing had to be written off?
Wonderwolf wrote: the idea of a "false" rumour ceases to exist unless there is a public release by GW of all things they didn't release that we could cross reference with genuine rumours.
This would be hilarious. GW doesn't tell us what they are releasing, but does tell us what they are not releasing.
Which could be used to prove what they are releasing.
Yeah, the tracker is an imperfect system and has been argued with before.
How would a perfect system - given GW's current policy of publicity - differentiate between a "false rumour" that is simply made-up nonsense and a "false rumour" that was true, until they cancelled the product last-minute .. say .. because the moulds proved problematic and the whole thing had to be written off?
The system isn't perfect and can't be perfect. The point was that the complaint that it sometimes doesn't get things right has been raised before.
ClockworkZion wrote: Yeah, the tracker is an imperfect system and has been argued with before.
Of course, it is imperfect. That being said, some arguments for reform are unrealistic. Any that rely on us knowing the hearts and minds of GW or rumor mongers are obviously on that side of the fence.
At this point, the methodology is about as good as we're going to get. It only requires us to know two real questions about any rumor monger:
Did they say something?
Did it come true?
That's much simpler and easier to prove than:
Did they say something?
What were the facts at GW regarding this rumor at the time?
Did those facts change at GW and invalidate the rumor?
Did other, non-GW events that are non-public cause the rumor to change?
Is the anonymous source of the person who is mongering the same?
Are they telling the truth about that or are they just trying to get a new start on the tracker?
Did the monger misinterpret their source's information?
Did the rumor end up true?
edit: I get it. Really, I do. No one likes to see their name with a bunch of FALSEs next to it. No one likes their word questioned when it was no fault of their own. The tracker isn't saying mongers are bad people for getting falses though. It is just telling everyone else what that person's history is. People can make their own decisions about what that means.
You don't accept retractions or corrections to rumors though either, just the initial statement, which may make some people balk.
Also despite your intent being that, it's not what ends up happening and you know it. Heck you've tried doing it to me before too.
Really infuriated hearing that BB was halted due to the terrible sales of Dreadfleet- a child could have figured out that game wouldn't be all that popular. So for GW to have stopped BB because the production of a game that nobody wanted resulted in a huge flop....well, I guess they can add this feather to their "we don't do market research!" cap.
Hah, that's sorta funny.
I wrote an Opinion Piece about that right when Dreadfleet came out in 2011
Please do it rumor by rumor in my thread if you disagree with anything I tracked. We can't take into account your reasons or the background behind each rumor because those are impossible to prove. All we can do is track what the rumor was and whether it came true.
I wouldn't dream of it. It is a perfectly resonable system ... if you feel one is needed.
I couldn't give less of a hoot what my rumour record says ...I was just playing with you. I make no claim to being 100% correct. I am very often guessing based on less than complete information. I make no excuses for the times I get it wrong (apologies , Yes,... excuses, No)..... The fact that my record is as good as it is a mystery to me.
I thought I was excited to hear Ad-Mec in 40k (and possibly Dark Mec?) from hastings. But 30k skirmish game?!?!?!?! That just sounds too good to be true!
O.O
Even thow it's hastings it just sounds to good to be true, I'm scared to get to hype untill we start seeing pics.
D=
What will be really interesting is to see how GW differentiates their admech from FW's admech. Not just in fluff or anything, but as an artist, I'm VERY interested to see what the aesthetic differences will be!
Accolade wrote: That stand-alone assassins game can't be the Inquisitor skirmish game that was rumored a year or two back, could it?
Really infuriated hearing that BB was halted due to the terrible sales of Dreadfleet- a child could have figured out that game wouldn't be all that popular. So for GW to have stopped BB because the production of a game that nobody wanted resulted in a huge flop....well, I guess they can add this feather to their "we don't do market research!" cap.
drbored wrote: What will be really interesting is to see how GW differentiates their admech from FW's admech. Not just in fluff or anything, but as an artist, I'm VERY interested to see what the aesthetic differences will be!
Well, looking back on the history of when FW and GW ranges have overlapped, I'm guessing the FW stuff will be awesome, with crisp detail, taking influences from old established fluff and new ideas, and will also retain a solid, logical design, despite depicting some outlandish concepts, and the GW stuff will eschew crisp detail for simply filling every available flat space with iconography, will look dangerously close to children's toys, and will make no internal sense, regardless of the fact they're depicting a levitating mecha octopus. But will glue together more easily.
drbored wrote: What will be really interesting is to see how GW differentiates their admech from FW's admech. Not just in fluff or anything, but as an artist, I'm VERY interested to see what the aesthetic differences will be!
Well, looking back on the history of when FW and GW ranges have overlapped, I'm guessing the FW stuff will be awesome, with crisp detail, taking influences from old established fluff and new ideas, and will also retain a solid, logical design, despite depicting some outlandish concepts, and the GW stuff will eschew crisp detail for simply filling every available flat space with iconography, will look dangerously close to children's toys, and will make no internal sense, regardless of the fact they're depicting a levitating mecha octopus. But will glue together more easily.
Azreal13 wrote: Well, looking back on the history of when FW and GW ranges have overlapped, I'm guessing the FW stuff will be awesome, with crisp detail, taking influences from old established fluff and new ideas, and will also retain a solid, logical design, despite depicting some outlandish concepts, and the GW stuff will eschew crisp detail for simply filling every available flat space with iconography, will look dangerously close to children's toys, and will make no internal sense, regardless of the fact they're depicting a levitating mecha octopus. But will glue together more easily.
Pretty much. FW will retain the look and essence of the Mechanicum, whereas GW will go all out with exaggerated detail and oversized weapons that will look good but not as good as it could have done if they'd just calmed down. And they'll be 1000x easier to put together than FW stuff.
Please do it rumor by rumor in my thread if you disagree with anything I tracked. We can't take into account your reasons or the background behind each rumor because those are impossible to prove. All we can do is track what the rumor was and whether it came true.
I wouldn't dream of it. It is a perfectly resonable system ... if you feel one is needed.
I couldn't give less of a hoot what my rumour record says ...I was just playing with you. I make no claim to being 100% correct. I am very often guessing based on less than complete information. I make no excuses for the times I get it wrong (apologies , Yes,... excuses, No)..... The fact that my record is as good as it is a mystery to me.
Harry, since you're here. Please tell me that my precious Ogres aren't going to get....well, squatted by this bubblehammer thing.
I hate the idea that Blood Bowl was shelved because of Dreadfleet. Only GW could think that the failure of their long-winded, clunky and unwanted game of sailing ships could have any affect on the rerelease of a beloved fantasy football game.
If they did any market research, which at this point has to include simply noticing what other companies are doing - nothing formal - they would have seen Dreadball and how well it's done. That alone should tell them there's a market for BB.
"Oh, right, you little fethers, didn't buy Dreadfleet eh? Well, see this? This is going back on the shelf until you start unquestioningly giving us all your money like a good little disciple."
If they did any market research, which at this point has to include simply noticing what other companies are doing - nothing formal - they would have seen Dreadball and how well it's done. That alone should tell them there's a market for BB.
That would require acknowleging the idea that 'other companies' might exist... Which would then lead to denial, C&Ds and a court case in which GW will claim it invented football, dice, and any variation thereupon...
On topic, I do like the sound of an Admech release. Hopefully the Harlequin codex and models have gone down well enough that GW realises that more focused, interesting and 'new' releases are better for both them and us than repeating the same every-few-yearly codex cycle.
"Oh, right, you little fethers, didn't buy Dreadfleet eh? Well, see this? This is going back on the shelf until you start unquestioningly giving us all your money like a good little disciple."
Wouldn't be the first time GW held Blood Bowl hostage.
Azreal13 wrote: Well, looking back on the history of when FW and GW ranges have overlapped, I'm guessing the FW stuff will be awesome, with crisp detail, taking influences from old established fluff and new ideas, and will also retain a solid, logical design, despite depicting some outlandish concepts, and the GW stuff will eschew crisp detail for simply filling every available flat space with iconography, will look dangerously close to children's toys, and will make no internal sense, regardless of the fact they're depicting a levitating mecha octopus. But will glue together more easily.
Pretty much. FW will retain the look and essence of the Mechanicum, whereas GW will go all out with exaggerated detail and oversized weapons that will look good but not as good as it could have done if they'd just calmed down. And they'll be 1000x easier to put together than FW stuff.
I can accept different levels of detail quality but for me the main thing that matters is that I hope models from both FW and GW can exist in the same army and look like they belong together; that is they need to have a certain degree of cohesion.
H.B.M.C. wrote:I hate the idea that Blood Bowl was shelved because of Dreadfleet. Only GW could think that the failure of their long-winded, clunky and unwanted game of sailing ships could have any affect on the rerelease of a beloved fantasy football game.
If they did any market research, which at this point has to include simply noticing what other companies are doing - nothing formal - they would have seen Dreadball and how well it's done. That alone should tell them there's a market for BB.
Stopping BB because of DF is dumb, of course. But releasing BB just as a stand-alone game without regulary model support isn't what I call smart either - the market is full of 3rd party miniatures.
aka_mythos wrote:I can accept different levels of detail quality but for me the main thing that matters is that I hope models from both FW and GW can exist in the same army and look like they belong together; that is they need to have a certain degree of cohesion.
Well, I have nearly all 28mm miniatures GW ever released for Adeptus Mechanicus. Some look dated in comparison to newer models, some weird (especially the female servitor), but they fit somehow (red clothes/robes if nothing else helps...). But while the Titan Tech-priest from FW is a copy from an old Jes Goodwin artwork the Thallax look just outlandish and the tanks... special. So if GW takes a more conservative route with their models design-wise its hard to achieve a uniformity. But hat's not bad per se.
but lack of real support would not matter to much to GW as a significant chunk of their target audience would have the box bought for them, play with it a few times, get bored and give up
the (to their mind) issue is a BB box sells only that before the kid gets bored,
If instead it's not available the kid instead picks up 40K or occasionally WFB which makes them more money before he gives up
both options may also create a long term fan and buyer but that's not really who they are targeting
H.B.M.C. wrote: I hate the idea that Blood Bowl was shelved because of Dreadfleet. Only GW could think that the failure of their long-winded, clunky and unwanted game of sailing ships could have any affect on the rerelease of a beloved fantasy football game.
Yeah, it's like if Disney decided to cancel Avengers 2 if Ant Man tanks. Hell, the 25th anniversary of Blood Bowl came and went without even a peep out of GW.
I could see them getting many uses out of this if they open it up for them to be allies of Imperial/Chaos forces, hell maybe even Necrons!
I have always been interested in Admech and their background. The fact they have remained so withdrawn/distant from all of the grimdarknesswar had me even more curious about them. I wonder if they have their own agenda and that's why they are starting to become more active?
Azreal13 wrote: Well, looking back on the history of when FW and GW ranges have overlapped, I'm guessing the FW stuff will be awesome, with crisp detail, taking influences from old established fluff and new ideas, and will also retain a solid, logical design, despite depicting some outlandish concepts, and the GW stuff will eschew crisp detail for simply filling every available flat space with iconography, will look dangerously close to children's toys, and will make no internal sense, regardless of the fact they're depicting a levitating mecha octopus. But will glue together more easily.
Pretty much. FW will retain the look and essence of the Mechanicum, whereas GW will go all out with exaggerated detail and oversized weapons that will look good but not as good as it could have done if they'd just calmed down. And they'll be 1000x easier to put together than FW stuff.
I can accept different levels of detail quality but for me the main thing that matters is that I hope models from both FW and GW can exist in the same army and look like they belong together; that is they need to have a certain degree of cohesion.
That'll be interesting. The FW armor is a little smaller and more delicately featured than the GW plastics (you can see this in the hands especially IMO). If the new kit is compatible with the Mk.7 plastics, it'll almost certainly be a little bigger and bulkier than the FW minis.
It's a potential dilemma for me since I'm about halfway through collecting the infantry I need for my HH army. But we'll see how it sorts out. If the plastics aren't straight-up Mk.4, I'll stick with the FW version anyway.
This isn't really a complaint, BTW. Exciting times seem to be ahead.
OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote: but lack of real support would not matter to much to GW as a significant chunk of their target audience would have the box bought for them, play with it a few times, get bored and give up
the (to their mind) issue is a BB box sells only that before the kid gets bored,
If instead it's not available the kid instead picks up 40K or occasionally WFB which makes them more money before he gives up
both options may also create a long term fan and buyer but that's not really who they are targeting
Not sure. 40k/WHFB and BB are quite different and may not attract the same people. I never had interest in playing BB (not just because the miniatures from the 90's were extremely ugly - I would have used those from the late 80's) and was not alone. On the other hand there're BB enthusiasts who don't play other GW games (anymore). To rely on 'kids' to buy a stand-alone game failed with Dreadfleet.
For me only two scenarios are likely. 1) The game sucks and haunts the shelves for a long time. Maybe some people buy it if the models are pretty. 2) It's really good. People buy it and give GW some instant money. That's the end of the GW part. Because lacking support, those who play the game - starting leagues and communities - now have a shiny rulebook and a nice cardboard field. And start buying non-GW models, writing own rules for more teams and so on. All without GW (maybe they get money for some Fantasy miniatures players use for conversions).
Therefore, they much prefer issuing new stuff, which they know every customer might potentially buy, rather than redesign something that those who already own the original may decide to skip because they either prefer the old version, or find it much harder to commit to spending. Hence we get Centurions when the core Assault Squad set is in need of an update etc etc.
This isn't an absolute of course, the new Tac Squad being a recent example, but I suspect that if we were privy to more behind the scenes info, there was a good reason for GW to do it that served GW's purposes, beyond making an improved product for its customers.
I agree, I have always felt that putting your customers first is the only way to run a business, and that if you have happy customers everything else falls into place.
GW don't work that way apparently, so I'm afraid the choice is to make your peace with it, or give your toy soldier money to someone who acts like they care.
There is a third, darker, path, but we don't talk about that here.
Wonderwolf wrote: the idea of a "false" rumour ceases to exist unless there is a public release by GW of all things they didn't release that we could cross reference with genuine rumours.
This would be hilarious. GW doesn't tell us what they are releasing, but does tell us what they are not releasing.
I would buy a book of rejected concept art from GW.
Jacob29 wrote: It's so god damn old it's a joke to even still be sold.
Being old is okay sometimes. But the Jetbikes were ugly when they were released. Why did they choose this helmet design for the Eldar plastics? Some of the metal guardians had much better variants.
They need to fix their entire 40k current range first.
Being an Eldar player I know of the Eldar range the most.
To name a few:
All of the Aspects...
Several Phoenix Lords are, while pretty good, some are awful and could be way more awesome.
JETBIKES JESUS!!!!!
Of all the most popular factions, Eldar have the oldest, crappiest models. Many are just horrible. They may be an ancient race, but they don't need ancient metal/finecast
Hopefully, there will be a major Eldar release this year, including new codex and models. Would make for good sales for GW, too.
To touch on the topic of bb getting shelved because dreadfleet did bad makes sense in away. Since gw dose not do market research all they had to go off of was the sales numbers for space hulk compared to dread fleet and try and figure out why one did so good and the other did so bad.
It seems like gw assumed dread fleet did bad because the ship models were only for the board game well the space hulk minis could be used in 40k. Thus blood bowl would also do bad since blood bowl mins would only be useful for blood bowl since they wouldn't have as munch use in whfb.
I think most would feel a bad choice on gw's part, but one I could see how they came to.
Lockark wrote: To touch on the topic of bb getting shelved because dreadfleet did bad makes sense in away. Since gw dose not do market research all they had to go off of was the sales numbers for space hulk compared to dread fleet and try and figure out why one did so good and the other did so bad.
It seems like gw assumed dread fleet did bad because the ship models were only for the board game well the space hulk minis could be used in 40k. Thus blood bowl would also do bad since blood bowl mins would only be useful for blood bowl since they wouldn't have as munch use in whfb.
Maybe. But what GW does is look at their sales numbers.
Dreadfleet was released and tanked in late 2011.
Summer 2013, Hastings and Harry (and Tasty?) post rumours about BB later in 2013.
Late in 2013, GW kills BB because of Dreadfleet?
Sorry. Doesn't add up. If they did kill a BB due to Dreadfleet-sales, they'd have done it 12+ months before the initial BB-rumours were even posted.
Lockark wrote: To touch on the topic of bb getting shelved because dreadfleet did bad makes sense in away. Since gw dose not do market research all they had to go off of was the sales numbers for space hulk compared to dread fleet and try and figure out why one did so good and the other did so bad.
It seems like gw assumed dread fleet did bad because the ship models were only for the board game well the space hulk minis could be used in 40k. Thus blood bowl would also do bad since blood bowl mins would only be useful for blood bowl since they wouldn't have as munch use in whfb.
Maybe. But what GW does is look at their sales numbers.
Dreadfleet was released and tanked in late 2011.
Summer 2013, Hastings and Harry (and Tasty?) post rumours about BB later in 2013.
Late in 2013, GW kills BB because of Dreadfleet?
Sorry. Doesn't add up. If they did kill a BB due to Dreadfleet-sales, they'd have done it 12+ months before the initial BB-rumours were even posted.
It does not 'add up' because you assume we heard the bloodbowl rumours in summer 2013 and rushed to our computers to post them. We heard about bloodbowl years before but didn't say much until we thought it was just around the corner. Same with Space Hulk. I used to write a rumours page in a webzine called 'The Watchman' and talked about the early development of these projects years before they happened.
Same thing now with the 9th edition rumours. I have not heard a thing about it for 18 months or more. Everything I heard about this I heard along time ago when it must have just been ideas or at best been starting to take shape. Now folks are talking about it I have to scratch around my head trying to remember everything I heard.
I personally think its bonkers. How a game that no one knew anything about that has no player base has anything to do with a much loved classic that is still played by a lot of folks .... I don't know. I would have thought Space Hulk was a better predictor of how BloodBowl would go too ... but what do I know. I think the point about the alternative models out there is a good one BUT if they did not plan to make a bunch more teams then I am not sure how this would have made a difference.(Although I heard about work done on teams that were in addition to the four teams in the box)
These things happen ... I remember Colin Grayson had done six months work developing a building system for generic fantasy houses ... two sided tiles that could be put together to construct cottages and town houses ..(Bit like cities of death stuff). it had gone all the way from concept, sculpts, moulds proofs ... it was already to go ...they were tens of thousands of pounds into it in terms of development costs and the whole thing got binned by 'higher ups' in favour of more individual buildings ... and we got Skullvane Manse and friends instead. It happens.
These things happen ... I remember Colin Grayson had done six months work developing a building system for generic fantasy houses ... two sided tiles that could be put together to construct cottages and town houses ..(Bit like cities of death stuff). it had gone all the way from concept, sculpts, moulds proofs ... it was already to go ...they were tens of thousands of pounds into it in terms of development costs and the whole thing got binned by 'higher ups' in favour of more individual buildings ... and we got Skullvane Manse and friends instead. It happens.
Harry wrote: It does not 'add up' because you assume we heard the bloodbowl rumours in summer 2013 and rushed to our computers to post them. We heard about bloodbowl years before but didn't say much until we thought it was just around the corner. Same with Space Hulk. I used to write a rumours page in a webzine called 'The Watchman' and talked about the early development of these projects years before they happened.
I assume nothing about when you first heard about them.
But as it stands - if there ever was a BB in development - the rumours would've been wrong at the time you posted them.
Again, no beef with you. But I'd assume 50+% of what is in (various stages of) development at GW never sees the light of day. Long-term rumours fine and dandy, but if you're doing long-term rumours, you're simply going to have to live with the fact that many will not come true (and that these will be indistinguishable from any other false, randomly made-up rumours to your audience).
More importantly, how would you know (rather than assume/conclude/etc..) that the alleged BB was dropped specifically because of Dreadfleet, and not a million other possible reasons (Dreadball coming out, sprues not proving feasible, etc.., etc..)?
Harry wrote: It does not 'add up' because you assume we heard the bloodbowl rumours in summer 2013 and rushed to our computers to post them. We heard about bloodbowl years before but didn't say much until we thought it was just around the corner. Same with Space Hulk. I used to write a rumours page in a webzine called 'The Watchman' and talked about the early development of these projects years before they happened.
I assume nothing about when you first heard about them.
But as it stands - if there ever was a BB in development - the rumours would've been wrong at the time you posted them.
Again, no beef with you. But I'd assume 50+% of what is in (various stages of) development at GW never sees the light of day. Long-term rumours fine and dandy, but if you're doing long-term rumours, you're simply going to have to live with the fact that many will not come true (and that these will be indistinguishable from any other false, randomly made-up rumours to your audience).
More importantly, how would you know (rather than assume/conclude/etc..) that the alleged BB was dropped specifically because of Dreadfleet, and not a million other possible reasons (Dreadball coming out, sprues not proving feasible, etc.., etc..)?
So ... I can't win. The insinuation I have made the whole thing up or am just lying ... "IF there ever was BB in development"
The assumtion that I am wrong and you are right based on your limited understanding "The rumours would have been wrong at the time they were posted."
I once had the final draft of the book in my hand. I posted a rumour about a rule. It was changed the day it went to print two days after I had posted it. just 5 months before the book landed ... MUST have been wrong at the time of posting.
Nothing like 50% in fact ... most stuff goes to plan and arrives exactly when it was supposed to ... contrary to the collective wisdom of the interwebz who scream 'pushed back' everytime something does not turn up exactly when it was 'expected'.
If it was 50% my remarkable track record would be flippin' miraculous. The demands for 'proof' 'evidnece' of how i know something ..."How do you know that the ALLEGED (There you go again!) BB was dropped because of Dreadfleet..." Because I am a man that knows things ...or I am am that knows people that knows things ... or I am a man that knows people that know people that know people that know things ..... what do you want from me????? I am a man that from time to time hears the odd bit of information that comes in the general direction of GW.
This is why I don't post rumours anymore and just chip in a bit to stuff when other folks post.rumours.
I have not started a rumour thread, posted a single release date or stated anything as a solid fact for quite some time because of having to answer to posts like this.
...and they always start with a phrase like "I have no beef with you ....and then go on to try expalin their beef ... in the same way folks start a sentance with "No offence but... " ... then go on to say something deliberately offensive.
Who the feth! Harry is a fine upstanding gentleman, it's outrageous you'd try to besmirch his character! Pull your head in wonderwolf, it's working it's way up your arse.
This is why I don't post rumours anymore and just chip in a bit to stuff when other folks post.rumours.
I have not started a rumour thread, posted a single release date or stated anything as a solid fact for quite some time because of having to answer to posts like this.
...and they always start with a phrase like "I have no beef with you ....and then go on to try expalin their beef ... in the same way folks start a sentance with "No offence but... " ... then go on to say something deliberately offensive.
And now we know why we no longer have one of the best rumour guys out there
Joyboozer wrote: Who the feth! Harry is a fine upstanding gentleman, it's outrageous you'd try to besmirch his character! Pull your head in wonderwolf, it's working it's way up your arse.
Harry wrote: It does not 'add up' because you assume we heard the bloodbowl rumours in summer 2013 and rushed to our computers to post them. We heard about bloodbowl years before but didn't say much until we thought it was just around the corner. Same with Space Hulk. I used to write a rumours page in a webzine called 'The Watchman' and talked about the early development of these projects years before they happened.
I assume nothing about when you first heard about them.
But as it stands - if there ever was a BB in development - the rumours would've been wrong at the time you posted them.
Again, no beef with you. But I'd assume 50+% of what is in (various stages of) development at GW never sees the light of day. Long-term rumours fine and dandy, but if you're doing long-term rumours, you're simply going to have to live with the fact that many will not come true (and that these will be indistinguishable from any other false, randomly made-up rumours to your audience).
More importantly, how would you know (rather than assume/conclude/etc..) that the alleged BB was dropped specifically because of Dreadfleet, and not a million other possible reasons (Dreadball coming out, sprues not proving feasible, etc.., etc..)?
So ... I can't win. The insinuation I have made the whole thing up or am just lying ... "IF there ever was BB in development"
The assumtion that I am wrong and you are right based on your limited understanding "The rumours would have been wrong at the time they were posted."
I once had the final draft of the book in my hand. I posted a rumour about a rule. It was changed the day it went to print two days after I had posted it. just 5 months before the book landed ... MUST have been wrong at the time of posting.
Nothing like 50% in fact ... most stuff goes to plan and arrives exactly when it was supposed to ... contrary to the collective wisdom of the interwebz who scream 'pushed back' everytime something does not turn up exactly when it was 'expected'.
If it was 50% my remarkable track record would be flippin' miraculous. The demands for 'proof' 'evidnece' of how i know something ..."How do you know that the ALLEGED (There you go again!) BB was dropped because of Dreadfleet..." Because I am a man that knows things ...or I am am that knows people that knows things ... or I am a man that knows people that know people that know people that know things ..... what do you want from me????? I am a man that from time to time hears the odd bit of information that comes in the general direction of GW.
This is why I don't post rumours anymore and just chip in a bit to stuff when other folks post.rumours.
I have not started a rumour thread, posted a single release date or stated anything as a solid fact for quite some time because of having to answer to posts like this.
...and they always start with a phrase like "I have no beef with you ....and then go on to try expalin their beef ... in the same way folks start a sentance with "No offence but... " ... then go on to say something deliberately offensive.
I don't demand any proof or evidence.
I am simply trying to explain, why it would be irrational to treat rumours that turned out to wrong differently, just because rumour-mongers claim (unprovably) that they were right at the time they were posted.
Natfka could go back on every single rumour he ever posted that didn't become true and claim "they were true at the time".
If the precedent is set for accepting people's word on it for you, it would be unjust and inequable to not extend the same courtesy to every rumour-monger - hastings, natfka, larry vela - in turn making the whole idea of a "false rumour" moot. "False rumours" would cease to exist. There'd only be rumours that "were right at the time" and rumours that "were right at the time and actually were released",
If, on the other hand, different rumour mongers were treated differently, with some judged "less harshly" for the things that didn't pan out than others, the whole rating ceases to be comparable. Rumour-mongers who get false rumours credited as "correct, despite no release, based on courtesy and their word" would inherently get better rating than rumour mongers whose false rumours just get credited as "false", full stop.
For all intends and purposes, there never was a BB (in the past 5 years) just as there never was a plastic thunderhawk. There is no unbiased way to distinguish qualitatively between two false rumours.
Well, here's an idea, rather than holding Harry hostage over things he's very eloquently explained he has no control over, and getting bogged down in some semantic argument between what was wrong and what became wrong over time, we show some god damn appreciation for the many, many occasions he has been spot on and act like humans who can take someone on trust when they've shown on multiple occasions they are worthy of it and not some robotic, Internet kangaroo court that demands irrefutable proof of everything all the time?
You seem to be relatively new to 40k since you must not realize that Harry has been posting these rumors for over EIGHT YEARS rather continuously. And he has been right about almost everything, and the biggest hiccup in this Blood Bowl thing is what he's going out of his way to explain.
Given his long, long history of very accurate rumors (going back to before a lot of current posters probably even started 40k), I'm going to give him the benefit of the doubt that he's right about this, since he's damn well earned it. Of course I don't expect in any way that the rumor tracker would need to be changed since Blood Bowl hasn't come to past (hopefully one day), but sitting here nitpicking his explanations is absolutely pointless and beyond rude, especially when he was nice enough to wander over here from Warseer to clarify things in the first place!
You seem to be relatively new to 40k since you must not realize that Harry has been posting these rumors for over EIGHT YEARS rather continuously. And he has been right about almost everything, and the biggest hiccup in this Blood Bowl thing is what he's going out of his way to explain.
I am not that new.
Either way, even if I were new and knew nothing about Harry, he could point me towards the rumour tracker and I would see that his track-record, even with the odd false Blood Bowl rumour, is vastly superior to any other rumour-monger out there.
His credentials to the small group of veterans "in-the-know" is undisputed, rumour-tracker or not, so I don't see the issue.. His credentials to newbies are easily demonstrated through is superior track-record in an unbiased system.
Ironically, the latter would cease to be meaningful, if the rumour-tracker were to start measuring different rumour-mongers by different benchmarks, no? One or two false rumours don't tarnish Harrys vastly superior accuracy as a rumour-monger all things considered. A biased and "two-tier" rumour-tracker would do more to obfuscate his excellent track-record than it would do to highlight it.
