Yeah right, finish sending out your first kickstarter you filthy lying bastards! Communication with these guys is non existent, they ignore everything!
I haven't recieved my Iron Beard stuff yet. Sent in the request for what I wanted months and month ago (mostly the zepplin stuff which is why it was so late). I'm due for another email/kickstarter message.
The Metal Beards are definitely a touchy subject, and I wish they would just fess up to their shortcomings and get things sorted out, as it's coming up on almost a year ago since they ran that campaign.
Not sure what happened there with the lack of communication.
Worst case it might not be a bad idea to wait until retail on some of these pieces.
That's what I've been doing trying to pick up those weapon platforms for my Dwarfs.
Had not kept up with the metal beards campaign and had assumed it went ok. Hearing that it hasn't does make me wary of going for this. I like their stuff, but that news, coupled with the fact that I have decades worth of stuff waiting for me to start on helps me think I won't be reaching for my wallet on this one.
It's odd, because I received my pledge from the metal beards campaign just fine (although I was only in for 3 characters) and just a few weeks ago ordered 4 metal beards warmachines that were in-stock at Element Games, and received them already.
It's probably worth posting in the comments of the new campaign that they need to respond to inquiries on the old one, until they satisfactorily do...
I think Titan Forge's stuff is amazing, and their Kickstarter prices are usually much cheaper than their normal prices, but others' experience not getting their stuff for the last campaign does make much much less likely to back, even though I received mine (it's also why I ordered through a 3rd party to get those warmachines, as I'm not sure what their backlog is).
as I loved what I got from the Metal Beards (and the undead orcs/goblins from the Indiegogo I got via retail)
It's absolute communications blackout that's so frustrating because if they won't talk to people with problems they're never going to get things sorted out
and it suggests if there are problems in the future it will go the same way
I feel the same, spent a few hundred on the iron beards because I love the stuff the put out, but it looks like they have no intention on sending my stuff.
If anyone face books, could you mention it there? I think it's important people know what they're in for.
usernamesareannoying wrote: Whatever happened to the metal beards on their site? They used to have good and bad basic troopers there but I can't seem to find them anymore.
Oh, you're right! No troops of any variety are there for the metal beards, just heroes, larger based things, and warmachines. These were the best, I think, and maybe easier to keep in stock... but it's interesting.
Yeah, not backing this until I see at least a reply about missing bits. Did get my pledge for Metal Beards after months of black out, but now who knows how long to get the parts I need to finish them.
Azazelx -- I'll post there also This is one of those things I find useful to see on dakka about creators/sellers.
Joyboozer wrote: Yeah right, finish sending out your first kickstarter you filthy lying bastards! Communication with these guys is non existent, they ignore everything!
I know how it feels, i went through a few personal issues last year which resulted in me forgetting to fill out the pledge managers of 3 Kickstarters i supported. Luckily I've had no problem contacting the other 2 Kickstarter runners and sorting out my rewards, but i've tried to contact Titan Forge multiple times with zero response so far. Im gonna try contacting them again today, but if i don't receive a reply by the 23rd then i will start harrassing them on their new Kickstarter project until i receive a response.
Looks really cool. Gotta wonder if anyone backing this will ever own one though. So far im not impressed with Titanforges customer service, if they actually have any customers at all.
They definitely have customers - like I noted above, I just got some of their stuff from Element Games this month! But there's a reason I did not order it from Titan Forge directly :-/
Currency is US dollars this time around (as opposed to British pounds last time).
Early Birds for those interested in their current bundles (or future bundles as they unlock).
They are using a point system again.
10 dollars = 150 points to spend on whatever. Their point system is kind of wonky, because for the price of 5 extra beefy marines, you can also get a single commissioned officer if you are in need of such a thing.
Bigger pledges seem to have more points to spend. There are also freebies if you spend a ton.
Bundles work out to around 3700 points or so.
Their basic grunts give me an Aliens vibe, albeit with exoskeleton harnesses:
Or the beefier versions for 20 points more:
Or if you like your human marines extra chunky:
I might be swayed to grab a demon or two. Still a bit hesitant after the last time around.
Yeah, I've seen their models. They are excellent. However I won't be ordering until it's retail. They already still have over $100 of my money from the metal beards...
Automatically Appended Next Post: Also the price is pretty crazy. Their discounted price is above GW's retail price (sometimes by a significant degree).
In regards to the price, remember Titan Forge's stuff is all resin vs GW's plastics.
Still, I wish 50 bucks netted you a bit more than 1000 points, considering you still have to pay shipping on top of all this. If 10 dollars = 150 points, why not give 1500 points to spend if shipping isn't even included? Odd.
I'll probably grab some of their demons when they hit retail. I like the guys with the chainswords.
The bundles are actually a good price even against GW's plastics for the Daemons. $160 plus shipping vs. $235.75 (assuming plague drones). Though I wonder at the scale of the medium nurgly daemons. It's their non-bundle pricing that is a bit crazy. I wish I could trust them. This is the only company that's really burned me on kickstarter. I might not have been happy with all the sedition wars stuff but it all showed up.
The beefier marines look really good to me! I have also been very impressed with Titan Forge's translation of renders to (very clean) casts.
Hulk, it might be worth signing up for the Kickstarter to just ping them about your metal dwarf pledge? Another backer did so and they responded that they've PM'ed them.
I actually just messaged them and they responded relatively quickly. They gave me an email to resend my choices to and they'll take care of it on Monday. I'll let everyone know how it goes.
Azazelx wrote: Look at that! Suddenly they're all communicative again and raring to help people out - now that they have another KS campaign on the go...
If I get my stuff I'll be happy. I won't support this one but at least I'll have gotten models for my money. And I made sure to go to their site and only order things that are for sale so there shouldn't be an issue filling my order.
Yes, I also messaged and received a we'll look into it Monday response. There's no way I'm giving these guys another cent even through retail. Best of luck to those who decide they will back.
I really like the designs on some of these, and they seem to have learned to make models in less pieces than the metal beards. Hopefully they take care of you, Hulk and Joyboozer! I'd like them to succeed but obviously they need to make things right with folks they've kept waiting so long.
I also contributed to their Metal beards kickstarter, and also have yet to receive anything. It sucks, I've been contacting them over and over for the past few months, but haven't heard anything since October.
Right after their campaign finished, I went and bought a bunch of stuff on their webstore. It all came right away, and was GREAT! the undead orks, and the demons, ogre swashbucklers they've done are phenomenal! I have to imagine there's some overiding reason they haven't gotten things to people. It's just a stupid thing to do when you're such a small, unknown, but super talented company.
I'm really hoping that my stuff arrives eventually, I love the Krashen Va (Chaos dwarfy) stuff. I was one who suggested they go with chains for beards on them.
I won't contribute to this KS unless they can get me my stuff from metal beards before it ends. It's totally possible, they just have to bust @$$ and finish their first KS.
Yeah, but their TitanForgeGames account was with Armymals....
Which also seems to have had its fair share of problems.
I just don't get these guys.They've got some fun stuff and pretty reasonable prices for what you get, their communication just needs to level up a few more times.
Joyboozer wrote: Yeah right, finish sending out your first kickstarter you filthy lying bastards! Communication with these guys is non existent, they ignore everything!
RivenSkull wrote: Titan-forge does make some very nice models, but after the way I heard them run the Metal Beard campaign, I am very hesitant to back this.
Joyboozer wrote: I feel the same, spent a few hundred on the iron beards because I love the stuff the put out, but it looks like they have no intention on sending my stuff.
If anyone face books, could you mention it there? I think it's important people know what they're in for.
Alex C wrote: Anyone thinking of backing this needs to research Titan Forge and their previous projects.
If you're still comfortable pledging afterwards, then more power to you.
I sure as hell wouldn't touch this project.
EDIT: Just noticed they changed their KS account since the Metal Beards projects. Trying (poorly) to disassociate themselves from that failboat?
Kid_Kyoto wrote: Interesting, they're using 2 different Kickstarter accounts, Metal Beards was Titan-Forge
Not necessarily... They just need to get their act together (majorly). I'm definitely keeping an eye on it but I want to see some of the outstanding pledges fulfilled first.
They are shipping some stuff (based on comments) but slowly and with poor communication.
Despite the kickstarter account saying they're based in Pennsyvania it seems they're in Poland which might explain some of the communications issues (fluent English speakers probably can find better things to do than answer emails for a kickstarter).
RiTides wrote: Not necessarily... They just need to get their act together (majorly). I'm definitely keeping an eye on it but I want to see some of the outstanding pledges fulfilled first.
I'm going with Tardar Sauce above. They might just start to fulfil outstanding orders for the last one based on complaints and the ability to hurt the current one, but what's to say that history won't repeat in, oh, about 30 days time?
Exactly how much checking do Kickstarter do before green lighting a project?
Hmmm, we've received complaints about non fulfilment, comment section full of complaints, can't see any reason not to ok their next project.
RiTides wrote: Not necessarily... They just need to get their act together (majorly). I'm definitely keeping an eye on it but I want to see some of the outstanding pledges fulfilled first.
I'm going with Tardar Sauce above. They might just start to fulfil outstanding orders for the last one based on complaints and the ability to hurt the current one, but what's to say that history won't repeat in, oh, about 30 days time?
I received my pledge from their last campaign fine, though. Are those who are still waiting pledged for troops? Apparently these gave them trouble (none are listed in their online store) for being designed in too many parts. Doesn't excuse the terrible communication, but maybe if you select other items they could fulfill it faster? Just wondering here...
Looking forward to hearing if they do sort you guys out Monday. This company makes the best minis around, and had previously run a great Kickstarter (undead orcs). It's this last one that they fell flat on, but I'm not writing them off - hoping instead they'll make it right.
Funny story. One of the units they just unlocked they already sell and it still costs less with the current currency conversion than if you get it with the $250 and $500 pledges (the best point deals) and you don't have to wait till July to maybe get it.
500pts for 3 models: .047 dollar per point at the $250 and $500 level so $23.50.
20 euro for 3 models converts at $22.41.
Also put in a dollar so I can make sure the keep pressure on for my Metal Beard items.
Considering they are charging for shipping too on the kickstarter I considered it a non-starter. And it's better to buy in euro's than US currency on their site since they don't keep up with it and charge almost $4 more per set of 3 in dollars.
Seriously, it's like a 10% savings on the non-bundles so I'm not seeing the reason to back this instead of just waiting for them to be available retail.
Joyboozer wrote: Exactly how much checking do Kickstarter do before green lighting a project?
Hmmm, we've received complaints about non fulfilment, comment section full of complaints, can't see any reason not to ok their next project.
They don't do any checking because Kickstarter isn't responsible for making sure a project is completed. The only way they would not green light or shutdown a project that was ok'd is if they were messaged about a scammer with known proof they've bailed on projects. Since they have 'partially' fulfilled and appear to be making an effort to fulfill then they are ok by Kickstarter standards (which isn't high).
RiTides wrote: Yeah, it seems the bundles are by far the best deal (likely to make it easier on them to fulfill / package, which makes sense).
What is the status of Armymals, Orlando, as I haven't followed that one?
The early birds went out supposedly. The ones with regular orders aren't supposed to receive theirs until Feb, however other than the early bird shipping there has been no communication since then. Not even a "Just letting you know we're on track to fulfill by Feb".
Why must KS use point systems... I hate point systems, they are so inefficient for a KS.
Projects use points systems for the same reason Disneyland uses Mickey Mouse money; to get you to spend more real money buying their fake money because you "only need a little more" fake money to get the new shiny. You start to disassociate the cost of the new shiny in real terms and your purse strings get looser.
It looks pretty much like the Metal Beards with most people getting the game and being relatively happy with it, but with a significant minority missing stretch goals or the whole thing (mainly seem to be non-EU? Perhaps as some really cheap/slow shipping choice used?)
from the comments
Creator TitanforgeGames on January 12
Hi Guys.
If you have any questions please contact Lucas using armymals@titan-forge.com. He does not have access to kickstarter page so he cannot answer here.
@Michael Martin - I can assure that you do not have a problem. All parcels have different tracking numbers and if anyone wants to receive his own. Please contact Lucas.
@Larry and Stenmur - Thank you for your propositions but we could not use your help. Dont get me wrong but we do not know any of you guys and it would be a risk for us to provide you with copies that should go other backers.
We contacted our post office and we are waiting for reply with better localization of your parcels. They should provide us with domestic couriers that will be in charge of transportation in your countries.
@Stenmur and HappyHowler - We know that we messed up but we did not have a perfect solution for obstacles that we did encounter. We did not have enough funds to finance faster shipping and we did not have enough manpower to cover everything as good as we wanted. We still face a lot of difficulties but we will deliver our product to all our backers. At this point we have a lot of stuff (armymals) in our warehouse that we wont sell untill all issues with our backers will be resolved. Still we cannot bankrupt in the meanwhile and our miniatures is what is keeping us going in this difficult situation and we had another kickstarter planned long time ago and we simply cannot wait any longer. I understand that we dissapointed you and all I can do it to ask you to try to be understanding as it was our first board game project and we made a lot of rookie mistakes that we wont make in the future. We will inform people about our mistakes from previous campaings in the next one but I believe that this time it will be different.
I keep being tempted to pledge for this, but just don't need any more minis, particularly marine counts-as models... I have plenty
But I think it may end up being something like what Heresy miniatures is experiencing - an influx of cash actually helps them take care of current responsibilities as well as fulfill new ones.
On that note, I didn't brave keeping my full pledge in on Heresy's campaign, and ended up just making a donation... but I think it may work out for him (although miss the due date like everything else) and that similar will occur here. It sounds the marines are Way less parts than the dwarves (like, torso, head, arms) which will enable them to fulfill this much easier and also hopefully take care of the folks waiting on prior campaign stuff.
I just want to say again that the casts I've gotten from this company have been incredible, and I love their unique design aesthetic, too (just look at their undead orcs or pirate ogres). But I also think so far they've shown that the Kickstarter model (getting paid for everything upfront then having to deliver months later) isn't totally ideal for them, at least with very complicated projects. So far this one is simpler, and if it stays manageable (but raises enough to let them make a few good lines of minis) this may work out for everyone. Here's hoping!
So I got an email saying that they are going to be shipping my Metal Beard order today. No tracking number or anything. Just an email saying it's going out. Granted, it's only 2pm there right now but I hope I see a tracking number today.
Hulksmash wrote: So I got an email saying that they are going to be shipping my Metal Beard order today. No tracking number or anything. Just an email saying it's going out. Granted, it's only 2pm there right now but I hope I see a tracking number today.
Funny how KS companies suddenly make customer service a priority when they want more of your money, isn't it?
Hulksmash wrote: So I got an email saying that they are going to be shipping my Metal Beard order today. No tracking number or anything. Just an email saying it's going out. Granted, it's only 2pm there right now but I hope I see a tracking number today.
I don't think they used any tracking previously (although I guess they might now?), so be prepared for it to just show up
Hulksmash wrote: So I got an email saying that they are going to be shipping my Metal Beard order today. No tracking number or anything. Just an email saying it's going out. Granted, it's only 2pm there right now but I hope I see a tracking number today.
Funny how KS companies suddenly make customer service a priority when they want more of your money, isn't it?
Well at least I've got 25 more days of them paying attention to get it sorted out
Mmm. These would make great K'Daai fireborn, but i'll have to pass until they're retail. Seems like they have had some issues in the past, and that's enough to keep me gunshy.
"How is this campaign going to be run/fulfilled differently from the Metal Beards project? Why did you create a new account instead of using the Metal Beards one?
Metal Beards were our fist big 3d based campaign and we made few rookie mistakes. Infantry units had to many parts and they gave us really hard time (12 man unit had 108 parts). We also had only ideas for some models and final design and 3d sculpting took like forever. Here miniatures are optimized much better in terms of casting and we have concepts for every single miniature that we want to release. We changed account to different because we received much better terms of cooperation and consulting from our current business partner."
They're a Polish company, so somebody will be acting for them as a business address/shell/partner so they can run KS projects out of initially the UK and now the USA
whoever that is will be unlikely to do it for free so I guess that may be what they're on about
Damn nice digital sculpts... Questionable company. I am glad I passed on metal beards from what I have seen... I still want to get some metal beards when they finally exist.
This is what Mantic's Enforcers should have looked like .
It actually looks like these powersuits can:
*Fit someone inside
*Actually protect someone from damage
*Has the ability to actually provide increased power to the user.
Yeah, that was my question and when I added a more detailed followup, they just ignored it.
They added a chart of points vs $$$ vs MSRP and it looks like if you give them $500 to hold for an indeterminate amount of time, you'll get from 10 to maybe 20% off of MSRP, assuming you get everything you pledge for.
The best part is that for half the intial stuff it's already for sale. So you're having them hold your money for stuff that's already out for a 10% discount
Well, half is exaggeration. They have 2 units available on their site already from the kickstarter.
nkelsch wrote: Damn nice digital sculpts... Questionable company. I am glad I passed on metal beards from what I have seen... I still want to get some metal beards when they finally exist.
The metal beards already exist... I bought 4 warmachines from Element Games (in the UK, but excellent service and fast shipping) last month. Of course, this does mean they were selling some before fulfilling all pledges... but I had missed on adding them during the campaign so grabbed them after.
nkelsch wrote: This is what Mantic's Enforcers should have looked like .
It actually looks like these powersuits can:
*Fit someone inside
*Actually protect someone from damage
*Has the ability to actually provide increased power to the user.
I agree, as far as the heavily armored marine sculpts go. I actually like them quite a bit. They are somewhat generic, but imo much better than a GW space marine to use as a sci-fi exoskeleton elite trooper.
Yeah RiTides. That's why I ordered stuff just on their store for my metal beards models. Two of the blimp units and the mountain walker character. I wanted to make sure it was something they had. I'm trying to get it resolved before they dissapear after this kickstarter.
I have to say they changed the point system to where it makes more sense in terms of translating it to dollars. Although I still don't see why they just don't completely do away with points and use straight $$ but at least in the current form, it feels less like a 'carnival ticket sham'.
They have been responding and listening. It will unfortunately take some time for that to translate into showing they have changed. It probably would have been better perceived if they first made a KS post on their outstanding project if there were issues send an email to XX and resolve that before launching though.
So they said they were shipping yesterday but didn't provide a tracking number. I emailed them again last night to request the tracking number and now it's shipping today and they did provide a tracking number that I'm going to have to wait till I get home to see if it works. I guess I was bound to have a really, really crappy kickstarter at some point....
skarsol wrote: it looks like if you give them $500 to hold for an indeterminate amount of time, you'll get from 10 to maybe 20% off of MSRP, assuming you get everything you pledge for.
This is consistent with their other army projects (pirate ogres, undead orcs, metal beards, etc). Except for their Armymals board game, they've been a miniatures focused company (which I like).
I took a peek at the kickstarter and I've got some reservations (perhaps unfounded). There seem to be ALOT of stretch goals and added figures for not alot of total funding being added. Kickstarters with tons of minis like Kingdom Death and Robotech had really large funding totals and still had trouble getting the stuff out (albeit in plastic). Given that there are some timeliness issues with the previous campaign by the same company under a different name, that worries me.
So, to be fair, I have gotten my bits as of yesterday. Took just under two months and dozens of messages across every place I could find to reach them (facebook, email, here, kickstarter). There was no reply until I started putting comments on their facebook posts for their new campaign. Afraid to check if they actually sent the bits I needed.
Which is nice, because now it's an easy thing to skip this kickstarter and maybe pick up a piece or two when they ever manage to get them into their store.
Ugh, I want to back this but, this is my first kickstarter. I had just put in a 40$ pledge in and then dropped it to a dollar after using the search bar on Dakka.
I will keep my pledge till it is apparent that people are getting there stuff.
This is a shame as I want the Claymore tank and some Marines for my Inquistorial Retinue. (Counts as Sternguard.) Is it even worth the risk guys? To be honest, since this is my first leap into KS are there any tips you guys can provide? Only if you got the time, I don't want to be a forum nuisance haha.
Oh and I am unsure if this is relevant. I went to check the retail to see if their (not) Marines were for sale and the website is down.
I am getting some mixed signals as a customer on this for sure considering the history, and the fact that normally it seems like Alpharius and Haight are spot on with kickstarter/studio/fishy companies.
Stormwall wrote: Ugh, I want to back this but, this is my first kickstarter. I had just put in a 40$ pledge in and then dropped it to a dollar after using the search bar on Dakka.
I will keep my pledge till it is apparent that people are getting there stuff.
This is a shame as I want the Claymore tank and some Marines for my Inquistorial Retinue. (Counts as Sternguard.) Is it even worth the risk guys? To be honest, since this is my first leap into KS are there any tips you guys can provide? Only if you got the time, I don't want to be a forum nuisance haha.
Oh and I am unsure if this is relevant. I went to check the retail to see if their (not) Marines were for sale and the website is down.
I am getting some mixed signals as a customer on this for sure considering the history, and the fact that normally it seems like Alpharius and Haight are spot on with kickstarter/studio/fishy companies.
I'd say no, there's enough not-marine options out there for you to start an army tomorrow using Mantic or Dreamforge or whatever. Why tie up your money and take the stress of models you MIGHT get in a year or two.
I dunno.. they've been communicating daily on the actual project itself. I'm providing input and actual designs on the VTOL and they've been extremely responsive. I think they're likely just a really small operation and trying to juggle everything they've got going on. From what I've seen, they are getting hammered with messages.
Edit#2: Lot of salt in the comments on the KS emerging over the most recent update. My signifigant other thought it was sketchy too so I decided to say feth it and I just ordered all the bits I've been wanting from Zinge. Plus I trust Kid a lot based on his judgement calls on Dakka. I can always buy these retail a year or two from now, right?
Thanks all for the support, sorry I wasted your time but you all probably just saved me from getting burned. I decided to invest in a years worth of DCM and some tank bits.
MLaw wrote: I dunno.. they've been communicating daily on the actual project itself. I'm providing input and actual designs on the VTOL and they've been extremely responsive. I think they're likely just a really small operation and trying to juggle everything they've got going on. From what I've seen, they are getting hammered with messages.
Communication being present WHILE fundraising or shortly after isn't a good measure of what is to come in my experience both in the KS that I pledged for as well as following another dozen or more here. It's when the delays and problems roll in that the communication record is key. Obviously, if the company can't be bothered to communicate well while funding then they certainly won't improve after refunds aren't an option either. If you want to see how this company might react to adversity, I believe there is a personal account on one of the earlier pages.
I complained because they had $100 of my money and weren't responding to emails or requests for what I ordered. I then took what was retail available on their website instead of what I originally wanted just to make sure ingot something for my money. And it was a project I was hot on 3-6 months ago. So now they wait till I come back around.
Eh, to be honest it seems like they do deliver it is just awful how they approach it. I'm going to wait for retail or sculpt up some (not destiny,) figures.
I get it.. I do.. I'm still waiting for Burn-In, Ranger Project, Mercs, and GG Boards.. and I agree.. it's definitely better to be safe with your money. I like the look but if people want other hard sci-fi, it's easy to find.
So, for those that backed their previous projects, were you allowed to add stuff when the project manager went up? Curious as I'm not sure on everything I'd want right now and would like to know if I could spend more later when it goes up and we need to pay shipping.
I mean, I hear what you're saying about them holding your money for so long, but I kinda really want their Lord of Ignorance and by the time it'll be on their website my wife will be in law school and I won't have spending money, so the whole spending money now and eventually getting it someday down the line even if way after their stated date is still appealing to me...
I am still tempted to pledge here. I think they will fulfill this campaign fine - they are learning as they go a bit. And I received my items easily from the last campaign, along with Orlando etc, and Hulk finally has his. The company has flaws, but their product is absolutely top notch. So just go in with your eyes open that you might have to be a squeaky wheel... But I'm a huge fan of their heavily armored marines, it's just that I already have counts as models for this purpose!
Edit: One of the things this company excels at is making casts which match the render exactly. Look at this:
I'm still likely to wait till retail, but their prices are definitely higher then, too.
Platuan4th wrote: So, for those that backed their previous projects, were you allowed to add stuff when the project manager went up? Curious as I'm not sure on everything I'd want right now and would like to know if I could spend more later when it goes up and we need to pay shipping.
I mean, I hear what you're saying about them holding your money for so long, but I kinda really want their Lord of Ignorance and by the time it'll be on their website my wife will be in law school and I won't have spending money, so the whole spending money now and eventually getting it someday down the line even if way after their stated date is still appealing to me...
I'm pretty sure I added a bit of cash in the PM but it was on top of a decent sized pledge anyway rather than just a basic $1
If you want to back I think it's a reasonable chance to take, Titan Forge are not just scammers as the majority of stuff is delivered (and what arrives is very nice)
but they do seem to get distracted (or run out of money?) so I'd be sure to make decisions & fill in the PM quickly when it arrives so you're at the front of the fulfilment queue (rather than waiting to see finished casts etc), and don't pledge money you can't afford to loose if things do go wrong (again normal KS advise, but it really is important here)
Yeah, outside of the pre-packed bundles the discount is pretty horrible. Add the long wait time, probably communication issues, and double the cost of shipping vs. their sites shipping and it all kinda pushes you away.
I checked out the pics on beast of war and I have some reservations about those being actual casts, they could be really well done 3d renders with textured materials. The lighting is multi source and seems to be computer generated and the lack of background and perfectly crisp edging with the black background indicates they either have somebody that's godly with photoshop doing their editing or it's a 3d render designed to look like an actual cast. The light sources on the bases also seem to be different from the models indicating the image may be composited on Photoshop. I see a lot of this style stuff being generated at my 3d school and it fools a lot of people into thinking it's a physical object when it's a render.
Before I'd consider putting any money into this I'd like to see some pictures of casts or prints alongside a real object or background.
I can't really tell if those are supposed to be the casts.. and the BoW article is kinda vague on it.. but the texture around the rim of the bases makes me think it might be resin.. I dunno.
But in Update 17 Robek says it's the cast.. Also I have a picture of a first cast of Lord of Fury. There are more to come. Check BoW facebook profile and page as they will show more tommorow.
People who have gotten their previous stuff have sounded off here in the forum.. actually someone said something in this thread.. about their castings matching their 3d very closely... so I would not be too surprised if that was legit.
I'm erring towards caution on these as I've seen way too many ks using photos of renders to imply they are actual models. Being vague about the image or not being forthcoming (defiance games anyone?) they could be casts but the way they are presented has me about 80% that they are renders. If they are casts it shouldn't be to hard to come up with a picture of them on a desk or a work mat etc.
There seems to be a lot a vagueness in their posts, maybe it's the polish/English barrier but could be vague on purpose, combined with their past ks experience it doesn't leave me with a lot of trust.
I highly suspect they are renders especially when I compare it against the lighting and shading levels of the renders they have already posted. Based on what I see and do on a daily basis at Gnomon it's a very simple matter to add a material to the 3d that emulates resin and the roughness on the bases is a super easy add in zbrush. The lighting angles on the base vs the model are at different angles which indicates the image has been at least altered in Photoshop with two separate images. It's also odd that the body is so clean and perfect while the base has imperfections. The lighting is very close to their previous model but the lower angled "monster lighting" was turned off, but the rest is nearly identical to the point it looks like its a render of the same 3d model that's been rotated about 15 degrees and the light rigging was left the same. That's why I'm not convinced it's legit, if it is an actual print it's easy to prove with a different pic.
The 3d prints the "alleged" castings were made from.
This is likely just an elaborate rendering too.. I imagine they used the "Tabletop Gaming" Shader for this one..
Automatically Appended Next Post: Paulson, I wasn't trying to sound like I was taking a shot at you.. and I agree on caution, but everyone is crying wolf a lot on Kickstarters.. maybe that's for the better.. but I can't help but feel like Defiance and the like have soured the whole thing.
People here have already stated that they got their stuff.. and that they like it, just not how the whole thing went down.
Hey, I even understand that the previous shakiness would drive people off.. I have a handful of companies I will not go near now. At the moment these guys have actually delivered, appear to be moving forward, and are offering stuff I want. For now they get the benefit of the doubt from me.
This is the image from BOW that was being presented as a "cast" side by side with the original render. After compring the two in an overlay in PS I'm 100% certain that the second image is just a render as even the camera POV and horizon is *exactly* the same but the model has been rotated slightly. It is really really tough to take a physical photo that will match the angle of the render this closely and not show a different angle of distortion (which changes the models proportions)
Now the image below I can tell is a physical print, not an issue. But the photo above being presented as a cast was what was raising my concern. I have no issue with the prints looking good or being reflective of the 3d model, but the image with the red background vs the image with the black are two renders, not a render and a cast as it's being promoted.
(You'll not that the print picture vs the render picture the camera POV & horizon are at different angles)
I personally think that those are legit castings that have been cleaned up for presentation. To what degree have they been cleaned up? I dunno.. but those bases.. how are those representative of what their new product will be? Those were castings of physical scupting.. this new line of products are castings of 3d printed goods.
That picture does highlight that TF does black backdrop cutouts on their physical products.. I just don't understand why people are so quick to villainize these guys. Sedition Wars was crucified over this kind of stuff.. arguably to a point where it destroyed McVey's reputation. In contrast, Mantic shovels out second rate crap to us and we give them a pass and ask for more.. I am just trying to understand the mentality people have here..
Automatically Appended Next Post: Paulson... look again.. there's a mold line on the axe head on the cast you are struggling to believe.
EDIT: As a matter of fact.. the axe heads are at completely different angles.
The axe being on as different angle along with the base having gaps between it and the second larger base (ass that a glue stain in the very front join between them?) makes me think it could be a physical version.
I think there's no doubt, really. People sometimes need more context - Titan Forge makes incredible minis that are totally faithful to their renders. It's just that their communication / follow through is lacking (a lot), but the product quality should not be in question - they make the best resin casts of any company I've ever dealt with.
I'm very interested on this kickstarter for potential Alpha Legion/Ultramarine Heresy era conversion purposes but as so many have pointed out I'm wary of Titan Forge due to past behaviour.
Zond wrote: I'm very interested on this kickstarter for potential Alpha Legion/Ultramarine Heresy era conversion purposes but as so many have pointed out I'm wary of Titan Forge due to past behaviour.
Aren't these 1/32 scale models? Would they actually blend in with a 40k army?
I wouldn't be blending them in, more using a couple just as a quick modelling or painting project. I don't play 40k so at best if becomes a large display. Just been inspired slightly by the Mk IX rumour thread.
Zond wrote: I'm very interested on this kickstarter for potential Alpha Legion/Ultramarine Heresy era conversion purposes but as so many have pointed out I'm wary of Titan Forge due to past behaviour.
Aren't these 1/32 scale models? Would they actually blend in with a 40k army?
if you on on the kickstarter page (on P1 of thread) near the bottom is a size comparrison picture with a GW cultist.
i like the deamon as a demon prince/bloodthirster conversion!!
I really, really love the models. And I do like the models I finally got from them. But do I need another "Daemon Army"? I have a nid counts-as to work with my nids and a dark mechanicus counts-as to work with my Iron Warriors. Do I need a pure daemon army?
And do I want to chase them if my stuff doesn't come through again.
The discount on the actual bundles makes it very tempting. A similar GW army in comparison to 4 daemon bundles (1 of each and a second "Tzeentch" one) is almost twice as much.....
Hulksmash wrote: I really, really love the models. And I do like the models I finally got from them. But do I need another "Daemon Army"? I have a nid counts-as to work with my nids and a dark mechanicus counts-as to work with my Iron Warriors. Do I need a pure daemon army?
And do I want to chase them if my stuff doesn't come through again.
The discount on the actual bundles makes it very tempting. A similar GW army in comparison to 4 daemon bundles (1 of each and a second "Tzeentch" one) is almost twice as much.....
Dude, you've posted in this thread I don't know how many times to say the exact same thing.. we get it..
Hulksmash wrote: I really, really love the models. And I do like the models I finally got from them. But do I need another "Daemon Army"? I have a nid counts-as to work with my nids and a dark mechanicus counts-as to work with my Iron Warriors. Do I need a pure daemon army?
And do I want to chase them if my stuff doesn't come through again.
The discount on the actual bundles makes it very tempting. A similar GW army in comparison to 4 daemon bundles (1 of each and a second "Tzeentch" one) is almost twice as much.....
Dude, you've posted in this thread I don't know how many times to say the exact same thing.. we get it..
Pretty sure I've never:
Stated my previous Daemon armies and if I need another one. The difference in cost for a daemon army through this kickstarter vs. a gw one of the same models
I might have mentioned my issues getting my items. Because they are legitimate issues. I might have mentioned the bundles are pretty much their only good discounted item (they are).
But that doesn't mean I didn't add something else or can't add to the conversation. But good looking out on jumping on someone for being tempted to jump back in. You're a credit to the Titan Forge fan group
Hulksmash - sorry man.. there's no way to tell tone via text :/
It read to me like you were just saying that you didn't really need another demon army and just complaining about TF. My bad, I really did mis-read your tone.
I know people have had problems with these guys but they are taking a pretty big beating and it gets a little old. I mean.. look at the title to the thread even.. it's got a hint of a dig to it.
I hope you do jump on board but if you're worried just jump in small. I definitely have reservations, but I'm in it for that airship.. so I kinda have to go all in or it won't happen :/
Yeah, I actually read it as Hulk being tempted to get in . I've certainly been lurking the campaign page and considering it... I really like those marines a lot. Just wish it wasn't ending right now...
I hate the timing on this too but I know I've got a tax return on the way to help offset this.. The guys with the exo frames and the dropship are just hitting the exact notes of things I need for what I'm trying to do with my miniatures. Near future sci-fi with a hard sci-fi theme and video game aesthetics.. yup..
If I can get the Striders from Deadzone cleaned up and assembled it'll be a total picture
Not sure about their PM.. someone mentioned being able to add after but you might want to ask in chat.. or hopefully someone will chime in here with more specifics..
They're running a Facebook contest right now. If you are in at least at their lowest actual pledge level ($32) and you share their post you could be one of 3 to win an additional $160 worth of stuff... that's a whole bundle's worth.
It would be unfair to forbid that as people with more than one KS accounts could buy multiple pledges. We decided that you can buy multiple pledges but either:
1)You will be charged shipping for every pledge and receive all freebies that comes with them
OR
2)You will be charged only for shipping of your highest pledge and you receive freebies only from the highest pledge.
This is aimed pretty much exclusively at people who were considering multiple bundles and flies in the face of what was communicated to me via messenger. At least they saved me around $600
You're upset that they are blocking people from cheating the freebie system? With $64 that would be 2 free squads... they would literally lose their asses..
If you pledge $500 you get free shipping with level 4 plus 2 freebies (and another from the stretch goal), and you can select bundles with the value of your pledge, right? The bundle pledge levels have no freebies so this is the best way to go afaik, and has free shipping included.
RiTides - I think they said the shipping is the only one you can't double up.. half off shipping is the best they can do.. From that interview they did on BoW they got screwed pretty hard by the shipping company from metal beards so I kinda understand where they're coming from.. I did bitch and moan about the shipping costs though..
MLaw wrote: You're upset that they are blocking people from cheating the freebie system? With $64 that would be 2 free squads... they would literally lose their asses..
I'm upset that they changed what they communicated to me. It's that simple.
Especially since they already over charge on their website on the euro to dollar conversion by a significant degree. Which means their's MSRP isn't accurate on their kickstarter as you can order under Euro and basically be paying the same amount for the existing items right now as the kickstarter is offering them for. And shipping on their website is far cheaper or free when you get up into the amounts of the large orders (which I was considering).
The models are pretty but I did the math and honestly something like this isn't worth going in for less than 25% off. And that's what you're really at when all is said and done.
I wouldn't get too upset Hulk, Mlaw is their white knight (which is fine, everyone has the right to support their company of choice, I would defend this more/back it if I could trust TFG,) who is very quick to defend against online forums. I mean that with the least amount of salt possible BTW. Regardless, before I found this thread I had googled "Dakka Titanforge kickstarter," and saw the two prior campaigns along with their failures. I digress however, and to avoid sounding like a broken record...
I ask if anyone else noticed that they keep changing their stories and the BoW article came across as an apology instead of "we should fix our mistakes?" I am still on the fence as the casts are good, plus they have lowered the part count and they (sometimes,) eventually deliver. I don't want to wait forever to get a small pledge, nor be stressed over chasing TFG via email. I have also noticed a lot of backers have dropped their pledges (including myself,) to a dollar which does not fill me with hope either.
Oh and people are saying some of the KS stuff is already retail. It would be nice if their website would load so I could see for myself. I keep getting "server failed to send data," from their website. :/
Stormwall wrote: I wouldn't get too upset Hulk, Mlaw is their white knight (which is fine, everyone has the right to support their company of choice, I would defend this more/back it if I could trust TFG,) who is very quick to defend against online forums. I mean that with the least amount of salt possible BTW. Regardless, before I found this thread I had googled "Dakka Titanforge kickstarter," and saw the two prior campaigns along with their failures. I digress however, and to avoid sounding like a broken record...
I ask if anyone else noticed that they keep changing their stories and the BoW article came across as an apology instead of "we should fix our mistakes?" I am still on the fence as the casts are good, plus they have lowered the part count and they (sometimes,) eventually deliver. I don't want to wait forever to get a small pledge, nor be stressed over chasing TFG via email. I have also noticed a lot of backers have dropped their pledges (including myself,) to a dollar which does not fill me with hope either.
Oh and people are saying some of the KS stuff is already retail. It would be nice if their website would load so I could see for myself. I keep getting "server failed to send data," from their website. :/
Yes, a few of the kits are available in the store. Everyone from Reaper to Mantic and a whole bunch in between have included pre-existing product in their kickstarters.. you guys are looking for ridiculous things to blame on these guys. Let's stop kidding ourselves.. you're not on the fence about this. You're finding reasons to troll this thread and have no intention of buying. I fell for that shtick once but it's too obvious.
No more jabs at other posters here, please - either discuss the campaign specifics or do not post. Both sides have made valid points, but it's time to bury the hatchet (at least publicly, feel free to continue via PM) and allow people to discuss Titanforge and their campaign here. Any questions, please PM me.
I have a question, that I must be missing - level 4 pledges have free shipping for all their contents, including bundles if you select them, right? Or is that not the case? I thought that was pretty clear but maybe I missed something.
RiTides wrote: No more jabs at other posters here, please - either discuss the campaign specifics or do not post. Both sides have made valid points, but it's time to bury the hatchet (at least publicly, feel free to continue via PM) and allow people to discuss Titanforge and their campaign here. Any questions, please PM me.
I have a question, that I must be missing - level 4 pledges have free shipping for all their contents, including bundles if you select them, right? Or is that not the case? I thought that was pretty clear but maybe I missed something.
Do you mean if you get this and tack on other stuff you get free shipping on the other stuff?
I would think so but that's just a guess on my part. I just asked in the comments section.
Yes, but I meant even without adding on - can't you use those 10,700 points to buy bundles - for instance, the Marines, Moto, and Terra Bundles total together to 11,220 points. So I thought you could basically use the $500 pledge level to get 3 bundles (covering the difference since that was slightly over the points allotted) and get free shipping, plus the freebies that come with the $500 pledge level (3 freebies plus free shipping).
Here's TF's answer
"If you buy a lv4 pledge you have free shipping for everything you order. You cannot buy a bundle for 150/160$ using funds from your lv4 reward but you can sum up all of models cost and "assemble" a bundle for yourself (every bundle is summed up in the left bottom corner) it will be a bit more expensive than buying a bundle reward but in return you will have free shipping and 2 freebies more."
EDIT: Remember that the freebies can get squads.. not just the jetpacks and heads and stuff..
Polonius wrote: So, they really, really don't want to provide any real discounts on this.
You do know what freebies are right?
Automatically Appended Next Post: Look at the graphic again.. you get a total of 3 freebies PLUS $35 bonus dollars worth of stuff PLUS free shipping PLUS 6 objective markers..
Edited by RiTides - see mod note posted on the last page
Yeah, I guess I haven't crunched the numbers too much here, but I was just going off of the point levels on the bottom left of the bundle deals, so that much is correct.
But it does seem to me they aren't doing quite enough to tempt people in here - I'm not finding an accessible pledge level for me to dip a toe in (the basic pledge is $32, so if I want the tank I'd have to make that $35 plus $15 shipping). A tank and 5 marines (free) for $50 shipped is not bad, but I wish there had been an easier way to dip a toe in (and on the flip side, an easier way to go for a whole army). The bundles definitely are the sweet spot so for folks wanting to pledge around there things should work fine, though.
Have you put together what models you're trying to get and worked out how many points it would be?
I think it's going to depend on what people's ideal whole army is too.. most of the games I play are more skirmish rule sets.. I don't really do the whole 40k thing so 100+ models isn't really a thing I see very much anymore.
A lot of people asked them to change from points to dollars and it screwed a lot of things up for them to transition after the KS had already launched. They have said though, that if you would have the points for it but the $$ value doesn't add up then you can just round it off and they would cover the difference. That could work out to people squeaking stuff in as well for a little bit more of a saving.
Polonius wrote: So, they really, really don't want to provide any real discounts on this.
You do know what freebies are right?
Automatically Appended Next Post: Look at the graphic again.. you get a total of 3 freebies PLUS $35 bonus dollars worth of stuff PLUS free shipping PLUS 6 objective markers..
Edited by RiTides - see mod note posted on the last page
But let's look at the math:
Lvl 4: $535 + $20 (Free Shipping) + $51 (3 Freebies) is a $606 value for $500
3 Bundles (Using 1 of each Daemon as an example): $552 - $20 (Shipping) + $17 (Freebie) is a $549 value for $480.
So there is a light discount going in that large. Right at $500 is a 30% value over the individual bundles if you don't early bird. If you do early bird it's a $7 difference.
The differences between the bundles covered at the $500 level comes out to about 18% off before the "freebies" which add approximately 11% more for a total of 29%. That said, it's based on their possible MSRP which will be inflated vs. the euro and which doesn't take into account that they regularly bundle units as well. And shipping is a wash because I put in a similar sized order on their website to test it and at that size there is no shipping cost. It's free.
So in reality, at their best level, you're probably looking at between 15-20% of a discount. Maybe less and maybe more depending on the performance of the euro vs. the dollar.
**Edit**
I was wrong about the saving difference between 3 bundles seperate and 3 bundles in the $500 pledge because I forgot you pay an extra $17 for the dollar difference for the 3 bundles. So it's about a half and cheaper if you can mass order the early bird of bundles which they said you could do via messenger to me.
Edited by RiTides - Edited comment responding to a line which had already been edited previously
Hulksmash you're forgetting the additional $35.. that is on top of the freebies.
Automatically Appended Next Post: You're also not associating any value to the objectives. Granted, I don't need them and maybe most people won't either but they are there and at the very least offer re-sale value if people don't want them.
My starting value includes the $35. Re-read. I actually made a small error. And I didn't include the objectives because they are a wash in the comparison between the two ways of doing things that RiTides was discussing.
So there is a light discount going in that large. Right at $500 is a 30% value over the individual bundles if you don't early bird. If you do early bird it's a $7 difference.
Wait, I'm not sure I follow your math.. or at least the way you're presenting it. Is the 30% value the amount saved if you go with the $500 pledge level? 30% isn't minor (some people even said that they need a 25% savings before jumping in) and if the $500 is in fact offering a 30% savings, it's worth noting and perhaps should not be downplayed.
So there is a light discount going in that large. Right at $500 is a 30% value over the individual bundles if you don't early bird. If you do early bird it's a $7 difference.
Wait, I'm not sure I follow your math.. or at least the way you're presenting it. Is the 30% value the amount saved if you go with the $500 pledge level? 30% isn't minor (some people even said that they need a 25% savings before jumping in) and if the $500 is in fact offering a 30% savings, it's worth noting and perhaps should not be downplayed.
I think, if anything, a 30% discount at the $500 pledge level should be downplayed out of courtesy to the Kickstarter!
That's a horrendously small discount for such a large pledge amount with a six month (in theory) delay..
Look, if people don't like the price, that's fine, but Titan Forge seems to be doing all they can to distract people from how little savings are involved.
the 30% is the difference between the bundles which I was actually wrong about. It's less. The discount on the product at their MSRP using my above example of the 3 bundles of daemons w/3 freebies and not including the objectives is:
Total Cost (1 of each bundle + 3 free infantry units): 672.7 Total Paid: $517 Discount: 23.2%
This is based on the MSRP they present, free shipping (as their website currently offers on orders this high), and not including the objectives.
It also doesn't take into account that most of the units are currently on the website are between 5-15% cheaper ordering using the euro.
Two Examples being
The Descendents of Decay which are noted at $42.20 but cost 35 euro. Which is $39.92. A 5% difference.
The Skybeasts which are noted as 26.6 but are 20 euro which is $22.80. A 14% difference.
@The thread in general
This just additional information. Do with it what you will. But the actual discount on product at the best "value" pledge is demonstratably under 20% unless the euro makes a massive gains on the dollar.
EDIT: I just saw that I mis-read what you said about the difference in the two.. and yeah.. I see where you're at now on the math. My math below on just bulk ordering Marines could raise a different topic. I dunno.. I don't think any math in the world will sway some opinions and that's fine..
Going off of the point system (they do allow you to use points and that does convert to more savings over flat $ amounts) you can get 29 squads of 5 marines plus 3 more for the freebies. Plus 2 more for the $35 (I would have to double check that they will cover the $1 difference). That works out to $2.94 per model for multi-part resin marines with free shipping and objective tokens.
I might be mistaken but I don't know anywhere else to get resin figures for under $3. If someone does.. let me know.
I haven't done the math using the Guardians.. they drop even lower because the base unit is $1 cheaper. I also did not check the bikes. They are $30 for 3 bikes.
EDIT: Hulksmash, are you factoring in that you take the cheaper of the two between points and dollar values? Also, on the stuff in the store.. the things I'm interested in aren't in the store at all or I would just order them and leave the whole thing alone. If I were in the shoes of someone wanting things from the store and things on offer for the KS.. I would order the things from the store separately to minimize headaches and stay closer to the bundle sweetspot.
EDIT2: People are implying you can purchase the TF miniatures for cheaper on other sites.. but then go back to make comments on currency conversion and shipping options through the TF website. Which is it? I am not saying there aren't places selling TF but I really don't know who they are. I do know that drawing a comparison between one or the other is fair but taking the worst aspects of each is cherry picking for a negative comparison.
MLaw wrote: Go try to buy a TV or a video game system for 30% off.
Pretty sure when I buy one of those I either walk out with it or it is shipped to me immediately. Having to wait a indeterminate amount of time for something from someone with a less than stellar history changes my expectations.
MLaw wrote: Go try to buy a TV or a video game system for 30% off.
Pretty sure when I buy one of those I either walk out with it or it is shipped to me immediately. Having to wait a indeterminate amount of time for something from someone with a less than stellar history changes my expectations.
Yeah, that's fair. As someone who has pre-ordered video games that got delayed though I can't say there aren't legitimate commercial/retail parallels though.
EDIT: Also.. I don't know about most people but when I pre-order video games or consoles, I don't really get that much of a discount.. typically it's maaaaaybe 10% because of Amazon which sometimes cover shipping (not nearly as much as it used to :/ ). I think there are some exceptions.. like maybe EB's paid gaming membership but I wouldn't bet on that.
EDIT: Hulksmash, are you factoring in that you take the cheaper of the two between points and dollar values? Also, on the stuff in the store.. the things I'm interested in aren't in the store at all or I would just order them and leave the whole thing alone. If I were in the shoes of someone wanting things from the store and things on offer for the KS.. I would order the things from the store separately to minimize headaches and stay closer to the bundle sweetspot.
The daemon bundles points and cash costs are the same. When they shifted to dollars they just made the cost the points divided by 20. Maybe I'm blind but I'm not seeing where you get a better value on points vs. cash. Especially since they won't let you "buy" bundles out of the $500 pledge but you have to build in place using the cash or point values (which are the same and come out higher than the bundles that way). That means you can't take advantage of the pre-set forces higher discount.
Regarding the stuff in the store it was to show that the pricing is likely to be just as far off. so you are likely looking at a less than 20% discount unless the euro makes massive gains. It had nothing to do with wanting to purchase existing items at a discount.
And while I agree that if I wanted something from the store I would purchase now. The bundles (my focus) that are the largest savings until the $500 pledge however have items that exist on the store at this time. And they are are selling at higher than current cost on the website. So they become relevant that way as well.
Also this isn't pre-order. These items, outside of existing models, aren't ready for production. This money is going into to getting these models into production. That's a horse of a different color from video games or regular pre-orders.
EDIT: Hulksmash, are you factoring in that you take the cheaper of the two between points and dollar values? Also, on the stuff in the store.. the things I'm interested in aren't in the store at all or I would just order them and leave the whole thing alone. If I were in the shoes of someone wanting things from the store and things on offer for the KS.. I would order the things from the store separately to minimize headaches and stay closer to the bundle sweetspot.
The daemon bundles points and cash costs are the same. When they shifted to dollars they just made the cost the points divided by 20. Maybe I'm blind but I'm not seeing where you get a better value on points vs. cash. Especially since they won't let you "buy" bundles out of the $500 pledge but you have to build in place using the cash or point values (which are the same and come out higher than the bundles that way). That means you can't take advantage of the pre-set forces higher discount.
Regarding the stuff in the store it was to show that the pricing is likely to be just as far off. so you are likely looking at a less than 20% discount unless the euro makes massive gains. It had nothing to do with wanting to purchase existing items at a discount.
And while I agree that if I wanted something from the store I would purchase now. The bundles (my focus) that are the largest savings until the $500 pledge however have items that exist on the store at this time. And they are are selling at higher than current cost on the website. So they become relevant that way as well.
Also this isn't pre-order. These items, outside of existing models, aren't ready for production. This money is going into to getting these models into production. That's a horse of a different color from video games or regular pre-orders.
I think perhaps this form of reasoning is backwards. It's looking at percentages of the total and it's not shopping the way I think people normally would.
For instance.. Figure out what you want (if it's actually anything). Add it up and look at how much it would cost you to get there. Then determine if that's a fair market value. All of this other stuff is just meta-shopping nonsense.
I'll dig out where they said that about the points. If it was in the chat it'll take me a while (I have stuff to do so I might not get to it if I don't find it on the updates or main page). TF has communicated with us a lot in the comments and then forgotten to include it in the update. I think whoever they hired for the social liaison stuff might not realize that unless it's put in the updates people struggle to find it (even then too most times). There've been a few times he said some things in comments and 2 days later we have to nudge him to get it in an update. When I find the original bit about the points I'll drop in a new reply.
Also this isn't pre-order. These items, outside of existing models, aren't ready for production. This money is going into to getting these models into production. That's a horse of a different color from video games or regular pre-orders.
Some video games are on pre-order while they're still in production. In fact, more and more they're doing paid betas. Considering TF has already started casting some units.. I'd say it's pretty fair to say they are transitioning into production. The airship and APCs are probably the parts I'd be most concerned about because of their size.
I used pre-order as an example because it's the closest thing to Kickstarter in the retail scene. I've said exactly what you've said here, and I do agree with it. The exception is, as I stated, games and game consoles who both go into pre-sale prior to finishing completion in many cases and are also in a pretty similar "luxury" pricing type of niche.
Automatically Appended Next Post: This is right on the front page under pledges.
Point Rewards work just as they did in our previous campaigns - every one of them contains a number of points that you can spend in the pledge manager for products that we unlock during the campaign. We have added $ costs for each model so it will be easier to check it's actual cost. In right top corner in pledges description and in models pictures there is still a point cost with *. If you prefer to use points to calculate your pledge you can still do it.
People are criticizing this kickstarter and haven't even bothered to read the main page. I'm done replying to people who have not even bothered to look at the main page.
Backers essentially loan money to companies to use as capital to create products. In return, they get product, usually at a significant discount to allow for the Time-use of money.
Some kickstarters are "pure," in that they represent products that simply would not exist without crowdfunding, and thus the creation of something neat is basically the only reward.
Other kickstarters are basically liquidity machines for ongoing businesses, in which they do almost no product development outside of the the kickstarters, and thus rely only on kickstarters to "fund" the products that they are working on. This is the mantic model, in which a company keeps a steady cashflow going while building a product line and avoiding debt. This is a lot more brazen, and requires a lot more sweetening of the pot for backers to really accept them.
Others are kind of in the middle, and that's what this sounds like. I don't doubt that Titan Forge was going to release some or all of these models, but they probably do need the money to turn the renders into models and fund production. That said, it sounds like they need cash for many, many purposes.
This is where the relatively skimpy discount comes in. What's my incentive to pledge? Why don't I just wait and buy these at retail for only pennies more, while avoiding the possibliity of getting nothing?
RiTides - Using the points system you get 31 units Berserkers of Fury. Using $$ you get 29. (neither including the freebies)
10700 pts / 340
$500 / $17
If you use your freebies and the $35 on Berserkers of Fury they work out to ~$2.78 per model.
Not only is that a pretty fair price point.. it's also shipped and with the objective markers. Granted, I don't expect anyone to buy 180 Berserkers of Fury.. but if we're just throwing out hypothetical numbers, that's what I'm going with.
RiTides before the huge edit, I asked if you had pointed up anything yet. Why not make a list of what you would want and calculate it in points and $$. See how it shakes out since for the most part I think the debate has just used single units.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Polonius.. I understand and even said as much. I was drawing a pre-order parallel because it's closest. And.. fun fact.. financial institutions do not share your opinion and allow chargebacks if project creators don't deliver. You have to make a good faith effort to collect your pledge and they have to demonstrate a lack of communication and/or lack of ability to deliver promised goods.
EDIT: Also.. if they produce the models they've indicated and deliver them, then I could give a rat's arse what they do with the funds. I would hope that anything past paying employees and materials for production would go into growing the business. That's none of my business if they fulfill their end of the agreement.
MLaw wrote: RiTides - Using the points system you get 31 units Berserkers of Fury. Using $$ you get 29. (neither including the freebies) 10700 pts / 340 $500 / $17
This is wrong. You get 31 units with a dollar left over at at the $500 pledge ($35 bonus dollars, not freebies) and 31 Berserkers of Fury for 10700 (which is the original 10k + 700 which is the equivelent of 1 dollar per 20pts). So no savings on the points vs. dollars there.
And your math per model is off. 31 units is 155 models. Plus 3 Freebies (15) is 170 models.
$500/170 is $2.94 per model.
Just so that the math is actually clear for those seeing this.
The fact that even a person super supporting them can't properly follow their system kinda speaks for itself. It's complicated and designed to confuse people to seeing a larger discount than exists. As above.
500/17 = 29
10700/340 = 31
Neither of those factors in $35 or freebies.
I said as much.
When you do factor in the freebies and bonus money to the better value of the two the value jumps to the $2.78 that I quoted. Why you would factor it on the higher makes no sense.
My math is not off. 31base+3freebies+2bonus money =36 Units * 5 per unit= 180 models.
EDIT:
It's not complicated to confuse people. At first it was just points. They changed that because people complained about the points.
There are no bonus points. Unless you can find me a post that says differently all the math points to the above.
The bonus dollars are equivelant to the bonus points they had previously had in the same spot. That totalled the exact amount divided by 20 of the dollar value given as a bonus. They just added the additional 700pts to the 10k pledge when they put the values in the corner. Just like on the $250 pledge.
You math does work out on the numbers as you see them. But unless you get confirmation that they are adding basically another 700pts to the point allowance it's inaccurate in reality.
Dollars and points are used interchangeably. They addressed this in the comments. Why not visit the KS page and actually do some research since you're so concerned
Upper right corner 10700 pts or 500$ plus $35 in bonus to spend as per descriptive text.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Here's the thing.. when I see something like this.. I do the sensible thing and ask the project creator. Even if I was only thinking of backing, I would shoot them a message.
In this particular instance I know this was discussed in the comments section. Perhaps I'll mention it as an update for the QA
I'd confirm that if I was you. I'm well aware of what that says. But 10700, when it was points, was 10000 and then the bonus text said 700 bonus points. Just like it now says 500 plus 35 bonus in cash. So I think you are misinterpreting it but I could be wrong. I'd suggest confirming.
Barring that.. which I am waiting for an official response... we're still talking about resin demons for under $3 each. The quality has been described as matching those renders.. which I think most people would agree means awesome. Both RiTides and Hulksmash own TF products and we've seen photos of the castings and it all points to top notch models.
Just for comparison's sake.. GW retail (which admittedly nobody pays) marks their plastic Bloodletters at 29 bucks for a box of 10. Multipart plastic. I honestly don't know who else makes demons as an army. Reaper's Warlord has 9 demonic warriors in pewter for $40.. I dunno.
The point is.. whatever math adds up to, whether it's $2.80 per model or $2.90 per model, it's still really reasonable.
I definitely agree with that, my casts from Titan Forge are some of the best I've ever seen and I'm extremely pleased with the products I have from them. That's why I've been tracking this
I do find them a bit pricey and in the past have wished I've been in on their campaigns more since there is some discount. However, it was extremely convenient for me last month to be able to order their product in-stock from Element Games in the UK, and get it in less than 2 weeks! So far I haven't found a level to tempt me in here yet, but even if I don't pledge I will definitely be considering buying some of the marine items at retail, like that lovely tank.
So I just got some hobby money from a friend as a late Christmas gift. I now have no excuse, and I am locked in with a 37$ pledge. (Which I think Mlaw/TFG on the KS comments explained is a Claymore and some Marines.)
I guess it is just a waiting game now to see if the Dropship is unlocked. I also feel awful for the snarkiness last night, just adopted a twenty four pound ball of fur in the form a cat who kept me up till 5:59 this morning. It's not a good excuse for being salty on Dakka though, so I apologize to you all as I was in the wrong.
Stormwall - Make sure you hit up the Facebook contest. Your pledge is high enough to get a chance at $160 additional loot!
RiTides -
I like the tanks, though I'm not really keen on the side-by side treads.. IRL that'd be a pain to work on, especially if the inner tread needed fixed. I like it a lot better than WW2 or M113 in space though.
The things I want are not at retail though, so I have to hope it works out.. including that airship. I like settings like Shadowrun or Ghost in the Shell and having something like that for an E-Swat type of force.. mmm.. delicious.
The Terra Guardian types are expensive when you compare them to multipart Cadians and similar.. but I've been building a lot of multipart resins from Puppetswar, Mad Robot, etc.. and this works out cheaper. The armoured guys with that Edge of Tomorrow/Elysium e-frame are not something anyone else has.. and I wants it.. precious..
Automatically Appended Next Post: Oh.. Stormwall - I hope I didn't give the impression I'm with TFG.. I've loosely helped them concept the airship and I've been waving their banner like a madman but I am just a backer like you.
Does it matter where I share it, IE: On timeline or on a friends wall?
Edit: You actually gave me that impression until you explained in the KS comments you're an avid fan, and I would be going crazy over that ship too if it had the original rotors or a detachable troop box like in Starship troopers or Mechwarrior.
I have no use for it unless of course it goes in the display case, as I am already (failing,) building a Stormraven and Stormfang kitbash/ truescale dropship scratchbuild, along with a Fallen Destiny Dropship at the end of this year.
And yet again, I'm sorry about my actions from yesterday.
Stormwall wrote: So I just got some hobby money from a friend as a late Christmas gift. I now have no excuse, and I am locked in with a 37$ pledge. (Which I think Mlaw/TFG on the KS comments explained is a Claymore and some Marines.)
I guess it is just a waiting game now to see if the Dropship is unlocked. I also feel awful for the snarkiness last night, just adopted a twenty four pound ball of fur in the form a cat who kept me up till 5:59 this morning. It's not a good excuse for being salty on Dakka though, so I apologize to you all as I was in the wrong.
No worries, and that sounds like a handful
I didn't realize the Claymore had sponsons - man that is sweet looking!
I don't think it does.. it just says share their status.. I just threw it up on my timeline.. but a friend's wall would probably work.
Automatically Appended Next Post: On the snark/salt..
I'm a vet and a college grad with 2 kids.. lol I've got pretty thick skin. I haven't really gotten worked up here despite how it may seem.. I'm mostly just being overly helpful and I think it's rubbing people wrong. I started lifting again and have waaaay too much energy here lately. Last night it translated into me cooking a 3 course meal and making my wife an Espresso.. and.. cheesecake.. so yeah.. it's all good man.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Unfortunately, I just heard back from TF and you guys are correct. The $35 on the $500 tier is only for USD backing.. for points it's just the points listed, plus the other benefits. So there's no advantage for $$ vs points..
They really need to revamp their main page, the dollar amounts mixed with points packages wtf?? it's confusing as feth and unless I know what I'm pledging for without having to do complex math and read detailed fine print it's not getting my support. They really need somebody official to figure out how to post clearly in English and organize their page, the longer it takes them to clean things up the less support they are going to get. I get that English may not be their forte but this isn't their first dance on KS and they should have this stuff down by now.
Also MLaw your rabidness is not helping anything... You're actively keeping me away from supporting this.
So, we just unlocked the airship and TF posted this in the comments section
Tommorow we will focus on aircraft (mainly cargo pod) so we should have some new pictures to show you.
Also we want to keep its price around 55-60$. Making to much options for him would make it impossible so we have an idea - We will make a basic kit for it. It will have all needed parts to assemble it (with some guns, those 6 side thrusters etc) but we will also make some upgrade sets that will include parts like for example:
- alternative wings with rotors
- alternative tail end with rotors that will replace back thrusters
- missile launchers that will replace front thrusters
- standard jet engines to hook under wings on at the edges of them
and if print would not be to expensive something to replace cargo pod but we will not know it will be possible before the end of this campaign.
For as big as that airship is, I think $50-$60 is reasonable. I know that's close to Puppetswar's retail for their Dragonfly but I'm okay with the price tag. I'd rather TF be conservative with the reduction on that rather than charge too little and not be able to deliver at all.
I also think their idea for the variations is something that would really make for a lot of fantastic combinations and conversions.
And.. it even means people who want the rotor wings can get them!
Automatically Appended Next Post: Here's some stretch goals..
I have to admit I keep flip flopping. The conversations in my head go something like this.
"Oh I like how a couple of those figures look." - Raises pledge.
"I don't heavily play WH40K anymore and don't really have anything to play with them" - Lowers pledge.
"They sure would be really great to paint" - Raises pledge.
"I already have a bunch of miniatures in a queue waiting to be painted, do I really need more?" - Lowers pledge.
"I really like the tanks and APC" - Raises pledge.
"We should throw in some marines, they could be great Halo troopers or something. I mean they are scifi and shiny!" - Raises pledge.
"Since I raised my pledge I might as well get the best bang for the dollar." - Raises pledge.
"I really should get the bare minimum, I could always get more later." - Lowers pledge.
"Yeah but what if I can't get as good as a deal, that has happened before on quite a few KS". - Raises pledge.
"Damn it, there are too many KS going on. I'm trying to cut down and so many choices." - Lowers pledge.
"I really like that airship. Maybe I should just get the minimum, APC, Tank and Airship." - Raises pledge.
Yep... that is about how it happens. To be fair I haven't actually raised or lowered my pledge, that many times... it tends to hover at the same price point. I have a spreadsheet where I make calculations on the KS (I have a monthly budget) so I can tally the final pledge amount. Before it closes I'll make the final count but if I did raise/lower that many times, I'd probably drive a KS Creator crazy. ^_^
Edit: DAMN IT! Please don't unlock the Terra Assasin (<--- is a sucker for female scifi troopers). Although her torso looks a bit weird. I know its not completed and probably because of how she's turned, but it feels like she has no neck with how high her breastplate is. Time to add more to my internal conversions in my head.
Been keeping up with the comments. Hope they open up the Lust Daemons as a bundle. I think that really would be a booster. A great last 48 hour addition.
There is basically nothing "awesome" that's going to generate a decent amount of extra cash on the way. It's minor upgrades or discounts or a single model unit.
They were slated as a $40k stretch.. the huge slowdown and the unexpected addition of the dropship shifted things around. I don't know if they're going to shift them to sooner. Talking to TF I got a sense that they budgeted this stuff out and moving them lower might cause the project to skew on it's costs. That's why a lot of the SG's in between are not major. I do think they're kinda cool.. but like you, I don't have much use for the Sgt.. I'm running Guardians.. he would look a bit out of place. I do kinda like the sniper though. The scenic bases are cool if you don't already have something to use.
I thought for sure the extra % would pique your interest :/
Extra % would pique my interest. My point is I don't think they are going to hit even that based on the current performance and that the lust daemons might be enough to push to the discounted % which then might push to where they were originally going to go with it.
We're kinda close to hitting the next SG.. so unless there's another ..like 37.5 or something I would expect the Lust Minions to be up when we ding that bell. A lot of people are more excited than us about that sniper too.. and the 48 hour reminder e-mail will go out in a few hours.
I think it's doable to hit the 40k.. but it'd be down to the wire and I'm being extremely optimistic with that. I have a guess as to where we're more likely to end up but I'll stay positive for now.
$50 pledge level and then add $10 for the difference and if you just want that take the 50% off shipping. So make sure you add half of the shipping. So like $70 at the $50 level
Have they set the price of the dropship? It says "$55 - $60" on the graphic.
So, you'd pledge for that price and select the Lvl 1 pledge. Shipping would be $15, or $7.50 if you take half of it as your "freebie" (otherwise you could get 5 free marines if you pay the full shipping cost).
Hulksmash wrote: They haven't set it yet. I'd probably just put in enough myself to the $55 amount and if needed they can collect the other $5 from me later
TF mentioned that he's concerned with trying to keep the cost down so I think he's going to shoot for $55 but from what he said, I got the impression they're doing the math on printing it.. or he's waiting for an actual print to finish of the prototype since the volume for the base kit shouldn't change too much.
That's a wild guess on my part. Please don't take it out of context or as some kind official word from them..
He liked one of the tail designs I did but he said it would be too bulky and could cause issues with pricing. He did mention that they would release alternate body kits separately for people who wanted them (I mentioned it earlier in greater detail). I believe he said that would be later though.
I popped some engine pod designs into the comments section if you guys want to take a look.
Did we ever get a clear answer on why they have been so negligent on fulfilling some people's orders on the metal beards kickstarter?
I saw something mentioned earlier in this thread about there being an issue with all the weapon options some of the troops had, but I didn't hear any specifics as to which figures, or why?
@Hulksmash, I know you were able to get through to them and get 'something', which, if I recall correctly, was made up of somethings you initially wanted from the KS, and other items from the site. Can you elaborate on how exactly you got through to Titan Forge? I've been sending emails, KS messages, everything I can think of, but no response since Oct last year. As soon as I sent in my kickstarter order, they stopped contacting me! I've put in over £200 to that kickstarter, and would like 'something' to show for it!
These new models look great, but why haven't they set something up so you can purchase from their back catalogue as well. To be able to add some undead orks, demons, or other items at a slight discount, such as Mierce does with their KS, couldn't hurt.
I contacted them on the newer kickstarter. They forwarded me to their customer service at support@titan-forge.com and they had sent the stuff out 5 days later.
skullking wrote: Did we ever get a clear answer on why they have been so negligent on fulfilling some people's orders on the metal beards kickstarter?
I saw something mentioned earlier in this thread about there being an issue with all the weapon options some of the troops had, but I didn't hear any specifics as to which figures, or why?
@Hulksmash, I know you were able to get through to them and get 'something', which, if I recall correctly, was made up of somethings you initially wanted from the KS, and other items from the site. Can you elaborate on how exactly you got through to Titan Forge? I've been sending emails, KS messages, everything I can think of, but no response since Oct last year. As soon as I sent in my kickstarter order, they stopped contacting me! I've put in over £200 to that kickstarter, and would like 'something' to show for it!
These new models look great, but why haven't they set something up so you can purchase from their back catalogue as well. To be able to add some undead orks, demons, or other items at a slight discount, such as Mierce does with their KS, couldn't hurt.
Sure did get an answer, which was "we made mistakes."
Which would be way more acceptable if they were actively trying to fix them, rather than requiring their pledgers to ride them on it. Looking at the discounts of my kickstarted Metal Beards vs their (very high) retail pricing but adding in the KS delay while they had those funds, the amount of time my time hounding them to get missing bits, and their dismissal of their mistakes on the last campaign as "we know we made mistakes" without any real action on it? Cost me more to pledge.
MLaw wrote: What did they not fix? Earlier in the thread you mentioned that you got your products. Is there something else they have not fixed?
I think the concern is that the incredibly delayed fulfillment and complete lack of communciation was a systemic problem with Titan Forge, and not a one time, "Oops, we didn't know that we were supposed to deliver product" type of mistake.
So, while they've "fixed" the individual problems, coincidentally at the exact time they started asking the gaming community for more money, there is a larger problem that we're not sure has been fixed.
Generally, product only fails to deliver if there is complete incompetent in fulfillment, meaning that not all orders are tracked well; or if the company simply cannot fulfill the orders due to low liquidity. Or, as is common with garage shops, both.
This conversation has already been had over and over.
They outlined what the problems were in their BoW interview.
If you're inclined not to believe that, then that's your opinion.
However, he specifically mentioned that problems were not fixed. I'm curious as to which problems were not fixed, specifically. Obviously the delivery schedule was one of them but non-delivery is not something I'm hearing specific examples of.
MLaw wrote: This conversation has already been had over and over.
They outlined what the problems were in their BoW interview.
If you're inclined not to believe that, then that's your opinion.
However, he specifically mentioned that problems were not fixed. I'm curious as to which problems were not fixed, specifically. Obviously the delivery schedule was one of them but non-delivery is not something I'm hearing specific examples of.
I wouldn't say that this concersation has been had over and over. I think there were a few oblique references to the actual article, but I've been following the thread and I didn't remember it, so forgive me if I don't think the topic was beaten to death.
Anyway, here's the question from BOW and the resonse from Titan Forge:
Spoiler:
BoW: Some of your previous campaigns have had some significant issues with them, namely some delays for the Metal Beards and Armymals campaigns. Why have there been delays here?
2014 was a tough period for us. Between the Metal Beards and Armymals campaigns we had some crew changes. Some things got overlooked and some were postponed, although they shouldn’t have been. We should’ve dealt with existing issues before moving forward but we didn’t, and the longer we waited the more difficult they became to fix, as nobody knew who was responsible for what. Many of the delays were a case of force majeure though, and left us helpless.
The delay in Metal Beards and the fact that some of the orders weren’t completed up to now had four causes. Firstly, it was the first project done completely in 3D and at the time we didn’t realise the amount of work needed to prepare such a number of models for printing was so big. Secondly, the amount of parts was overkill. A unit of 12 dwarves consisted of 108 parts, most of them small and easily broken and the amount of rejects was much more than we anticipated. The third cause was independent of us. A company that was supposed to print a big amount of the models for us wasn’t able to supply us with prints of adequate quality – we ended up having to look for another place to print them at. The last cause was changing the person responsible for shipment, which led to a mess up with the paperwork and in turn some orders got overlooked.
Armymals had two problems. The first one – no one person responsible for contacting the backers. This caused a lot of questions to stay unanswered for a long time, the tensions among backers rose and we completely understand this. Even though we learned our lesson during the Metal Beards campaign and the production process was completely airtight, something else failed in the Armymals campaign – shipping. Here the fault lies with our lack of experience and too much trust. When we were planning the Kickstarter we asked numerous shipping companies to calculate the cost of worldwide shipping. A German company proposed the best terms – not only were they the cheapest, they would also pack the sets for backers on their own. Thanks to that we wouldn’t have had to wait for all the orders from the pledge manager and we would just send the games and add-ons to Germany.
Unfortunately we were misinformed by that company and when the games and shipping addresses reached them we were presented with an invoice that showed completely different prices, up to 3 times larger than agreed upon. We were informed that there has been an error in the calculations and all they could offer was a 10% discount. We tried to reach an agreement, but we only lost out on time and were forced to use other, slower shipping methods. The additional costs and delays caused by this were massive.
To extract the key, and most worrying part: "Between the Metal Beards and Armymals campaigns we had some crew changes. Some things got overlooked and some were postponed, although they shouldn’t have been. We should’ve dealt with existing issues before moving forward but we didn’t, and the longer we waited the more difficult they became to fix, as nobody knew who was responsible for what. Many of the delays were a case of force majeure though, and left us helpless." Note the use of passive voice: "things got overlooked and some where postpone." It's a classic "mistakes were made." Who overlooked them? Who postponed them? The same people running this campaign?
Otherwise, this basically boils down to "we didn't know what we were doing. We swear we have it together this time."
So, I suppose it does boil down to me not believing that they've really fixed anything. They've run two kickstarters, and both had incredible delays. Further, they had terrible communication, which is entirely in their own means to fix.
skullking wrote: @Hulksmash, I know you were able to get through to them and get 'something', which, if I recall correctly, was made up of somethings you initially wanted from the KS, and other items from the site. Can you elaborate on how exactly you got through to Titan Forge? I've been sending emails, KS messages, everything I can think of, but no response since Oct last year. As soon as I sent in my kickstarter order, they stopped contacting me! I've put in over £200 to that kickstarter, and would like 'something' to show for it!
MLaw, this would be an example of something they have not fixed yet! This is an argument you're not going to win - better to grant that they had (and still have unresolved!) severe issues with the last campaign.
Skullking, part of the way Hulk was able to get his stuff, I think, is by selecting non-troops models. The troops are what gave them fits - they were new to 3d modelling and the troops were made in way too many parts (over 100 per set). They've simplified that for this campaign, so should be able to handle it much better. But even the artillery pieces I got at retail for the metal beards were in a Ton of parts!
So, consider messaging them on the new campaign (perhaps as a PM and in the comments) and selecting items they are still currently selling on their webstore, and you will be much more likely to get your stuff. I received my pledge just fine from the last campaign, likely because I had simple selections (just heroes)... the troops were the real backbreaker for them, and should be avoided if you want to get stuff anytime soon, imo!
What RiTides said. I ordered a bunch of stuff that was already available at retail. I wanted a few units but also actually wanted something for the money I put in so I just went with the blimps because I might be able to use them with my squat army as Storm Talons.
Ah, I haven't had my coffee yet and didn't see that in Skullking's post. I asked them what is up with that.. because I agree that's a lot of money to just not get an answer on. Hopefully he contacts them again and gets it sorted out.
Agreed, and I've done similarly on other campaigns that hit snags - things don't always go perfectly, and if it's possible to swap to things they have actually been able to produce, that's a good way to go, imo.
Mlaw, as someone who has experienced titan forges customer service first hand and still have to chase them even after the BoW article, I'd appreciate it if you could stop insisting there is no problem with titan forge, and come clean if you have more of a stake in this project than just a backer. There are ongoing problems with titan forge, you are not helping anyone.
Ah, I haven't had my coffee yet and didn't see that in Skullking's post. I asked them what is up with that.. because I agree that's a lot of money to just not get an answer on. Hopefully he contacts them again and gets it sorted out.
At the time of me saying I was not on the TF team, my role with them was loose concept design. Not even under a contract or anything. That is still the case with the exception that we have mutually agreed that they can use my designs freely and I can freely claim to have helped on the designs of the project. I don't gain money from sales or anything but I've been talking quite a lot with Romek and I don't get a sense that he's trying to screw anyone over. Instead I get a strong vibe that they are slammed with customer service, casting, design, and running a kickstarter at the same time. Part of the reason for them to run this KS is so they can bring in another person for future developments... which I think is a smart move.
RiTides wrote: Joyboozer - Did you get a reply / have they shipped your items yet?
In the end I gave up on getting my minis and asked for a refund instead, they agreed, and I still had to chase them multiple times to receive just recently. Given my experiences their BoW article was laughable.
Mlaw, you appear to have not had your coffee multiple times in this thread. I'm deleting the rest of my reply and have no intention of so much as reading another titan forge thread.
MLaw wrote: Instead I get a strong vibe that they are slammed with customer service, casting, design, and running a kickstarter at the same time. Part of the reason for them to run this KS is so they can bring in another person for future developments... which I think is a smart move.
It sounds to me like an even smarter move would be to resolve their existing issues completely before adding double or more to their plate in the meantime. YMMV.
I think it's more like he reached out to them volunteering some drawings / ideas in case they found them useful, and maybe they'll more officially collaborate in the future. Let's not make more of things than there are, I think there's enough drama with substance already!
BobtheInquisitor wrote: So, MLaw, this company got you to do design work for them for free? They essentially did not pay you for your work? That doesn't seem a bit shady?
I will not be receiving royalties or commissions or anything like that. How is that the same thing as not receiving compensation for designing for them?
BobtheInquisitor wrote: So, MLaw, this company got you to do design work for them for free? They essentially did not pay you for your work? That doesn't seem a bit shady?
I will not be receiving royalties or commissions or anything like that. How is that the same thing as not receiving compensation for designing for them?
You didn't mention compensation, which made it sound like there was none. Not that it matters all that much. Just trying to get a bead on where Titan Forge sits on the scale of doom.
RiTides - I imagine you're probably facepalming.. I'm sorry.. this is the last I'll say on it..
I did not mention compensation for designs because it is not anyone in this thread's business. What I think we could all agree would be everyone's business, is if I was receiving additional money or product to serve as a promotional person or some kind of sales.
Originally, I did just reach out and offer up some sketches. It grew from there, but only to help with concepts. It's that simple. For me as an artist.. this is huge. I've done a very little bit of design work for small companies in the past and want to break into the industry on a larger scale. Being able to attach my name to a kit like that dropship could help me tremendously as far as my career goes.
MLaw wrote: This conversation has already been had over and over.
They outlined what the problems were in their BoW interview.
If you're inclined not to believe that, then that's your opinion.
However, he specifically mentioned that problems were not fixed. I'm curious as to which problems were not fixed, specifically. Obviously the delivery schedule was one of them but non-delivery is not something I'm hearing specific examples of.
I wouldn't say that this concersation has been had over and over. I think there were a few oblique references to the actual article, but I've been following the thread and I didn't remember it, so forgive me if I don't think the topic was beaten to death.
Anyway, here's the question from BOW and the resonse from Titan Forge:
Spoiler:
BoW: Some of your previous campaigns have had some significant issues with them, namely some delays for the Metal Beards and Armymals campaigns. Why have there been delays here?
2014 was a tough period for us. Between the Metal Beards and Armymals campaigns we had some crew changes. Some things got overlooked and some were postponed, although they shouldn’t have been. We should’ve dealt with existing issues before moving forward but we didn’t, and the longer we waited the more difficult they became to fix, as nobody knew who was responsible for what. Many of the delays were a case of force majeure though, and left us helpless.
The delay in Metal Beards and the fact that some of the orders weren’t completed up to now had four causes. Firstly, it was the first project done completely in 3D and at the time we didn’t realise the amount of work needed to prepare such a number of models for printing was so big. Secondly, the amount of parts was overkill. A unit of 12 dwarves consisted of 108 parts, most of them small and easily broken and the amount of rejects was much more than we anticipated. The third cause was independent of us. A company that was supposed to print a big amount of the models for us wasn’t able to supply us with prints of adequate quality – we ended up having to look for another place to print them at. The last cause was changing the person responsible for shipment, which led to a mess up with the paperwork and in turn some orders got overlooked.
Armymals had two problems. The first one – no one person responsible for contacting the backers. This caused a lot of questions to stay unanswered for a long time, the tensions among backers rose and we completely understand this. Even though we learned our lesson during the Metal Beards campaign and the production process was completely airtight, something else failed in the Armymals campaign – shipping. Here the fault lies with our lack of experience and too much trust. When we were planning the Kickstarter we asked numerous shipping companies to calculate the cost of worldwide shipping. A German company proposed the best terms – not only were they the cheapest, they would also pack the sets for backers on their own. Thanks to that we wouldn’t have had to wait for all the orders from the pledge manager and we would just send the games and add-ons to Germany.
Unfortunately we were misinformed by that company and when the games and shipping addresses reached them we were presented with an invoice that showed completely different prices, up to 3 times larger than agreed upon. We were informed that there has been an error in the calculations and all they could offer was a 10% discount. We tried to reach an agreement, but we only lost out on time and were forced to use other, slower shipping methods. The additional costs and delays caused by this were massive.
To extract the key, and most worrying part: "Between the Metal Beards and Armymals campaigns we had some crew changes. Some things got overlooked and some were postponed, although they shouldn’t have been. We should’ve dealt with existing issues before moving forward but we didn’t, and the longer we waited the more difficult they became to fix, as nobody knew who was responsible for what. Many of the delays were a case of force majeure though, and left us helpless." Note the use of passive voice: "things got overlooked and some where postpone." It's a classic "mistakes were made." Who overlooked them? Who postponed them? The same people running this campaign?
Otherwise, this basically boils down to "we didn't know what we were doing. We swear we have it together this time."
So, I suppose it does boil down to me not believing that they've really fixed anything. They've run two kickstarters, and both had incredible delays. Further, they had terrible communication, which is entirely in their own means to fix.
This exactly. When their response to huge problems is "yeah, we know there were huge problems" but not addressing those as priority one -- e.g., being really on point with consumer communication -- is useless. They can admit they've got a drinking problem all they like, but the proof is when they don't go out to the bar anymore.
I actually emailed this same address when this current kickstarter first started, but never got a response then (I had emailed it awhile before as well, with no response also). So, fingers crossed that I can get in touch with them, and possibly get a little more info to help out anyone else with similar problems.
I feel that I wouldn't be as irked by the whole thing if they had contacted everyone and explained the issues they were having. Since Kickstarters are different than how a company normally functions, with R&D and pricing all done for the most part before the customers even know about the product, it's surprising that these things don't come up more regularly.
I recall an issue with the first Deep Wars KS, when some were promised a choice of certain figures for free. When all of the figures were all sculpted, half of the figures were too large to be given away for free without anti-matter losing money on them. In the end they admitted this, and still gave everyone the other half of the figures free. Whereas I would have rather had the first two figures, I was happy to get something (and they were freebie stretch goals, so I couldn't get all that bummed about it). I appreciated Anti-matter's honesty (I believe it was their first KS), and their backup plan for it.
Match this with KS like Kingdom Death, which is HORRIBLY late, but, they explain everything to the backers as they go.
Similarly, Torn Armor has made a HUGE mistake with setting up their miniatures. They've apologized, and been as open as possible about how their trying to fix the situation. Will it ever happen? No idea, but they are at least keeping everyone in the loop.
Then there's the Ice age Mammals KS...
This current Titan Forge KS has some really phenomenal figures in it, and I can tell just by looking at the items offered that they have learned how to make models with less pieces than the metal beards figures. And hopefully, the whole thing is much more cost effective for them. The decay and lust demons are particularly awesome to me, and I very much hope that someday this whole thing can be resolved, and I can acquire those figures.
@Hulksmash - thanks for the info, as mentioned, I've contacted them, and hopefully can resolve the issue.
@Mlaw - I hadn't said that I'd gotten the figures, I believe I mentioned earlier that after the metal Beards KS, I had ordered some models from the TF site. All of which came right away, all of which are amazing. I'm not sure what you may have assisted with design wise with TF, but everything is super great looking, so great work to both of you!
@Polonius - thanks for posting the BoW snippet, I hadn't seen that yet.
skullking wrote: Thanks for the advice and direction on this everyone.
@Mlaw - I hadn't said that I'd gotten the figures, I believe I mentioned earlier that after the metal Beards KS, I had ordered some models from the TF site. All of which came right away, all of which are amazing. I'm not sure what you may have assisted with design wise with TF, but everything is super great looking, so great work to both of you!
@Polonius - thanks for posting the BoW snippet, I hadn't seen that yet.
I really hope they help you.. and I have to agree.. I really hate KS that don't communicate what's going on.. I think I mentioned it here earlier.. I am in on the Burn-In MDF terrain one that is way overdue.. and that guy had tons of problems and didn't tell anyone.. same with the Ranger Salamander one.. ugh..
On the design.. the dropship is so far the first and only thing I've really helped on with Titan-Forge. For the most part the feedback on the dropship has been really positive, which is exciting.
The BoW interview is an interesting read.. if you haven't seen it you should check it out. Obvoiusly people suspect that elements of the story are just a smokescreen or them covering their asses.. which they might be.. I don't know.. likely nobody here knows for sure.. we can only speculate.
The interview
http://www.beastsofwar.com/titan-forge/qa-time-titanforge-xterra-armymals-metal-beards/
Hey everyone. I hate a quick question, and with time ticking on this KS I was hoping I could get it answered, without digging through this whole thread.
Will there be a pledge-manager, and will I be allowed to raise the pledge-tier during such?
Obviously it seems like this is a somewhat contentious Kickstarter, and their points-conversion non-sense and its eventual changed have confused me immensely as to how much to pledge.
As such, I was thinking of going in for $1.00 and figuring it out later.
There is a Pledge Manager coming. You can add things using points or $$ amounts.. whichever you prefer. They work out about the same. You will be able to add more during the PM.
I'm not sure if a $1 pledge works, though - that usually only works if they create a pledge level for it, which then gives them the opportunity to send you a survey and get your email address. When I've pledged $1 where there is no pledge level, you will often get no contact at all because you are selecting "no reward".
I considered doing the same here, and likely would if they had a pledge level for it, but I can't imagine them adding it now!
@Michael, Yes there is no problem for people who don`t have enough founds at this time to pledge 1$ and add more money in pledge manager, after our kickstarter campaign ends.
Excellent. This will give me time to save up, see how production is shaking out, and decide if my 2015 army will end up being these as Chaos Demons, or see if Ad-Mech becomes a real thing. :-p
Well, awesome, thanks for checking on that MLaw! I've put in a dollar, and a comment asking if they'll consider having the tank turrets be add-ons. I'd love to get a Claymore tank, but magnetize on a Sabre turret. I think that combination would be the best fit for a "counts-as" Land Raider, right?
Hope they consider it, I could see turret add-ons being very popular!!
Well they got the discount in and it looks like we might get the "slaanesh" daemons so I went back in for $32 right now. I expect to pick up an entire new daemon army out of this now but a lot depends on what they finally hit and the communication and actual casts in the next few months.
Same here... I flip-flopped about making a demon army for years, but they're generally so costly, as you're sinking points into your lists, but also buying units a summoning options, etc...
The built-in discount here, and some very cool looking models for common units will probably end up pushing me over the edge, though.
Also, i'm hopeful for NC-17 rated Daemonettes, as I have found it preposterous that Daemons of Lust have been self-censored by GW. On principle alone I would only buy "counts-as" version either way.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Question is, though MLaw, will the pledge-manager allow us to upgrade pledge tiers as well? IE, can we still snag a Tier 4 discount for bulk-buy at that point, or are we stuck with the $1.00 = 20pts, rate?
The teaser for the stretch goal after the lust minions has me scratching my head. If it ends up being something the size of one of the demon lords but for terrans I might lose it. I suspect it'll be closer to a Peacekeeper or Strider from Mantic.
I like the concept art on the lust minions. They aren't what I expected but fit in great.
Automatically Appended Next Post: NewTruth, I ...have no clue.. I will ask because I've assumed a few things and been wrong (the bonus $ thing for example). I'll copy/paste your question over there unless you want to (not sure if you're in yet or not)
God, I have Dreads for days, but would love to see their take on Centurions. I really dislike the GW models and would jump all over a nice/chunkier look-alike.
It looks like it will be big enough to be either a contemptor or centurion (I think.. remember 40k and I haven't been on a date since pre-2010.. )
Automatically Appended Next Post: Wow, what a wrap up. We cleared all but the very last stretch goal, which I think we'll probably clear during pledge manager.
Titans are in, as are lust minions.
I may end up helping with the Titan design.. waiting to hear back on that. If you pledged keep an eye out.. they want to do it as an open discussion type of development.
With the close of the KS fundraising period comes the test of seeing if they actually maintain communication... or if upon the completed cash grab they dive and start running silent again.
I left my $1 in, and having been out of town for half the week haven't been following the thread until just getting around to catching up now. Love the big MLaw reveal on the last page, which explains a lot of the ...enthusiastic defence. I have to say, I find it more than a little dishonest when people who have a stake in a company pretend to just be "a fan". (And yes, if you're working for a company then you've got a stake in it.)
Sadly, I don't think I can trust these guys enough to increase my pledge - which is a shame given how nice their models/renders look.
Love the models. Hoping this goes well, it is all about the communication now. I also agree with Az wholeheartedly as well about the big reveal. (Exalted btw.)
It is similiar to someone I know who pushed Black Library as if it was going out of style before going from fan to writer. (In that man's defense however, they were a fan who struggled for years and achieved their goal of writing for BL.)
No however on the KS they did comment that they are sending out emails today.
Edit: Got my pledge manager! Check your spam emails!
So I got a Claymore Tank and their Dropship Wing Engines kit. Furthermore, picked up my Marines as the freebie. (I am really excited but, I'll hold my horses for right now.)
Just received my Armymals Pledge. I'm kind of torn, overall the game has been fun and the pieces are ok. Then there was the latest update to Demigods Rising which explains some issues they had dealing with Titan Forge who was doing resin miniatures for them. They have now switched to using Prodos Games for resin miniatures. This concerns me on the quality of the miniatures for X-Terra.
The Demigods Titan Forge resin minis I received were crap. Utter crap. I can post photos if anyone doesn't believe me. Not a single one of the 5 i got were without flaws, and 4 of the 5 had major flaws that included massive bubbles in the worst places, obvious stepping from the 3D prints that blatantly show no effort was taken to 'prep' the models for production, and grainy texture that I originally thought was due to the lack of prep work, but I later realize was because the nincompoops ripped the figures from the moulds before the resin had set. I'm glad Demigods is cutting ties with them. And I'm glad I didn't touch the latest Titan Forge kickstarter. Who knows, maybe they actually care about their own figures (which will turn out flawless) and they just took the Demigods printing and casting project as an inconsequential side activity to their main business, but that shows a massive lack of professionalism, if nothing else. Sad.
greywulf wrote: The Demigods Titan Forge resin minis I received were crap. Utter crap. I can post photos if anyone doesn't believe me. Not a single one of the 5 i got were without flaws, and 4 of the 5 had major flaws that included massive bubbles in the worst places, obvious stepping from the 3D prints that blatantly show no effort was taken to 'prep' the models for production, and grainy texture that I originally thought was due to the lack of prep work, but I later realize was because the nincompoops ripped the figures from the moulds before the resin had set. I'm glad Demigods is cutting ties with them. And I'm glad I didn't touch the latest Titan Forge kickstarter. Who knows, maybe they actually care about their own figures (which will turn out flawless) and they just took the Demigods printing and casting project as an inconsequential side activity to their main business, but that shows a massive lack of professionalism, if nothing else. Sad.
It might be better for the community if you posted it (not that I don't believe you). That way if someone google searches for either company, it comes up and they at least have an idea (pic worth a thousand words and such...). Even if they had someone else make the minis, Titan Forge QA'ed them as adequate for shipping to customers so as much of the blame is on them as the manufacturer in my book.
Also, the latest update is backer only so us non-backers have no idea what it says beyond what is alluded to in the comments.
warboss wrote: Also, the latest update is backer only so us non-backers have no idea what it says beyond what is alluded to in the comments.
I didn't want to post the whole update in here, but I did post the backer update in the Demigods Rising thread. At first I was going to go on a spiel about backer only updates and my dislike for them because the information does get posted. Then I noticed there was a backer specific only link for Print and Play stuff, instead of individually emailing they posted it in the update. That is the only information I removed from the update, everything else is exactly from the backup update.
Ah, thanks for the link. Yeah, that clarifies alot, sucks, and is worriesome for this project as well. Maybe they'll take more care with their own stuff as opposed to contract work. Of course, IIRC they had some issues with their own previous kickstarter as well so it's not a given.
greywulf wrote: The Demigods Titan Forge resin minis I received were crap. Utter crap. I can post photos if anyone doesn't believe me. Not a single one of the 5 i got were without flaws, and 4 of the 5 had major flaws that included massive bubbles in the worst places, obvious stepping from the 3D prints that blatantly show no effort was taken to 'prep' the models for production, and grainy texture that I originally thought was due to the lack of prep work, but I later realize was because the nincompoops ripped the figures from the moulds before the resin had set. I'm glad Demigods is cutting ties with them. And I'm glad I didn't touch the latest Titan Forge kickstarter. Who knows, maybe they actually care about their own figures (which will turn out flawless) and they just took the Demigods printing and casting project as an inconsequential side activity to their main business, but that shows a massive lack of professionalism, if nothing else. Sad.
It might be better for the community if you posted it (not that I don't believe you). That way if someone google searches for either company, it comes up and they at least have an idea (pic worth a thousand words and such...). Even if they had someone else make the minis, Titan Forge QA'ed them as adequate for shipping to customers so as much of the blame is on them as the manufacturer in my book.
Also, the latest update is backer only so us non-backers have no idea what it says beyond what is alluded to in the comments.
I also had a number of mini's turn out bad. One of my mini's was one legged, as an air bubble at the knee kept the resin from filling it in:
Another one here you can see the mold slippage and the massive air bubble in the blade:
Everything came in a bag parcel. Numerous things were broken. I had a friend who wanted to grab some of Titan Forge's models, I've recommended that he didn't.
Now that the kids are in bed I have time to get my photos together.
My Priestess. Notice the grainy texture. This is the best of the lot that I received.
Spoiler:
My Black Wolf. Notice air bubbles on the hands. The animal's skulls is a complete air bubble. Her face is full of bubbles and is missing certain features, like eyes, because I'm guessing the mould section where the undercuts around her hair was torn to pieces when said nincompoop tore previous casts out of the mould. Her fur cape is also supposed to be defined, but her left side is a disastrous swirl of chunky resin, unlike the rest. And the stepping should be visible, though in the flesh its much worse.
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
My Ice Elemental was covered in the graininess seen in the photos. This is most likely from the figure being pulled from the mould before the resin had fully set, and I would also guess that the release agent was a pretty poor one.
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
My Wind figure was decent in most places, but her hands were undefined balls of resin. No fingers were visible. Graininess wasn't as bad here.
Spoiler:
My Trapper figure looked pretty good at first. But another glance a few months back revealed a ton of the stepping where I hadn't noticed it before. No photos taken of that one and to be honest, I can't find it right now. Spring cleaning in the house. I know it's on a shelf in the basement, but not exactly sure where.
And in regards to the Demigods guys sharing the blame, I don't feel that way. They were responsive from the get-go. They informed me that they had contacted Titan Forge, and that said company assured them that a replacement package had been shipped. This was reported to me March 17, a month and a half ago. No package has arrived. I'm inclined to believe the word of the Demigods guys over the word of Titan Forge. Seriously... how could a company that exists for resin casting let anything of this quality leave their shop?
I do feel they Demigods guys are not well versed in the realm of resin minis, since I really don't know how the 3D stepping would have gotten past them. I mean, it should be clear that some prep work had to be done before the casting. But I'm throwing my full support behind them since I see they're taking steps to deal with the issue. I'm just hoping they send me new replacements now.
The ice elemental looks the worst in my book. You could take advantage of the damage (just going by the name here,) and paint the entirety up as if covered in frost/ice crystals.
For context, this is what Black Wolf's face is supposed to look like, with the render, and a cast that was shown during the campaign. You'll notice there's no tumorous growth on her forehead, like the one mine sports.
greywulf wrote: The Demigods Titan Forge resin minis I received were crap. Utter crap. I can post photos if anyone doesn't believe me. Not a single one of the 5 i got were without flaws, and 4 of the 5 had major flaws that included massive bubbles in the worst places, obvious stepping from the 3D prints that blatantly show no effort was taken to 'prep' the models for production, and grainy texture that I originally thought was due to the lack of prep work, but I later realize was because the nincompoops ripped the figures from the moulds before the resin had set. I'm glad Demigods is cutting ties with them. And I'm glad I didn't touch the latest Titan Forge kickstarter. Who knows, maybe they actually care about their own figures (which will turn out flawless) and they just took the Demigods printing and casting project as an inconsequential side activity to their main business, but that shows a massive lack of professionalism, if nothing else. Sad.
While I absolutely believe you, photos of this sort of thing are always useful. So please do post.
Despicable. I can't believe Titan Forge thought those pieces were fit to ship to customers. I'll be writing off buying any of their products in the future.
Well I'm still waiting on my pledge that has yet to arrive still. Apparently it seems there is only communication when they do a new Kickstarter like Lobotomy, then they communicate and send some pledges out... then go radio silent again. It was a good thing I didn't back Lobotomy, even though it looked interesting that I might like it... I wasn't sure they were able to demonstrate that things have changed yet.
Is that a surprise though? The warning signs from the previous kickstarter were there. I understand why folks would want to ignore them (I've done it myself) but issues were raised frequently. I don't recall if in this case the folks raising the issues were told to shut up and stop whining or not though like in so many other troubled kickstarters.
warboss wrote: Is that a surprise though? The warning signs from the previous kickstarter were there. I understand why folks would want to ignore them (I've done it myself) but issues were raised frequently. I don't recall if in this case the folks raising the issues were told to shut up and stop whining or not though like in so many other troubled kickstarters.
warboss wrote: Is that a surprise though? The warning signs from the previous kickstarter were there. I understand why folks would want to ignore them (I've done it myself) but issues were raised frequently. I don't recall if in this case the folks raising the issues were told to shut up and stop whining or not though like in so many other troubled kickstarters.
No it isn't really a surprise, but I did want to comment as people haven't finished receiving pledges yet. Looking over the comments section of the KS, it appears some did receive them and there is discussion about them but it also looks like communication died down again. I didn't back Lobotomy because they haven't given or shown enough that there has been improvement on communications and fulfillment. It was for these reason that I also didn't back Panzerfauste even though a different company. I just make it a habit to not back KS that still have existing ones that haven't been fully fulfilled or at least showing they are on the way (on a ship). There are only a couple that I will and only because they have shown they do deliver continually instead of just when a new KS is happening.
warboss wrote: Is that a surprise though? The warning signs from the previous kickstarter were there. I understand why folks would want to ignore them (I've done it myself) but issues were raised frequently. I don't recall if in this case the folks raising the issues were told to shut up and stop whining or not though like in so many other troubled kickstarters.
People raising the issues were told to be quiet.
Yes, right from the start, really. Most of the users bringing up fair game warnings were told to hush by others. I'd like to think this is a direct factor that allowed so many new comers to back and then get burned with either miscasts or nothing at all. The newer backers to KS quit commenting too, I guess they gave up.
I had a gut feeling they were going to pull this from the start, though I had hoped they would change. (They could be a good 3rd party bits manufacturer/board gamer developer.) I made sure I got my stuff as from the get go I hit up their FB, KS, and their mail/comment section. A backer shouldn't have to do this though, as a backer shouldn't have to worry.
They're also upset that this was pointed this out from the get go. So no warboss, I don't think it was a surprise. I'd like to think this thread here stopped a lot of people from getting burned though, always a plus.
Edit: I fixed some typos, changed post tone. Had my first cup of coffee now.
Edit: Yes, it is a necro but, I am updating with pictures to bring hope to other backers.
The problem with seeing that one guy got his stuff fine, and another got bad casts, is that it makes you think, 'Do I want to flip the coin on which I'm going to receive?'. If you know that the company will replace bad casts and apologise, there's no risk, and you happily purchase. If the company is unresponsive/unwilling to ship replacements though, then it turns every transaction into a gamble, which most people can't be bothered with.
Edit: Yes, it is a necro but, I am updating with pictures to bring hope to other backers.
The problem with seeing that one guy got his stuff fine, and another got bad casts, is that it makes you think, 'Do I want to flip the coin on which I'm going to receive?'. If you know that the company will replace bad casts and apologise, there's no risk, and you happily purchase. If the company is unresponsive/unwilling to ship replacements though, then it turns every transaction into a gamble, which most people can't be bothered with.
I agree fully. This whole thing was a coin toss. I'm grateful and bothered at the same time that my stuff is borderline flawless and everyone else got miscast garbage. I really think the only reason was timing and my complaining. I got my stuff about midway, so after the first guys who got bad stuff but, before the grainy red resin. I do have some red resin, on the little engines. The white came out good on the tank but, it sucks on everyone else's stuff so I simply got lucky. Only two of the bottom tracks have a bubble or so.
The red engines suck but, they just need a sanding. The red resin seems almost like it is from a 3d printer, and the troops came out great.
Still. Why is my stuff so good and everyone else's miscasts? This means they /can/ produce to a higher quality but, they are /not/.
Also, I only posted that not to sway people as I have been a skeptic from the start actually but, to give other backers hope/show them what they could be getting. At the time there was hardly any pictures circulating of this stuff, compared to now. TF again dropped the ball.
I've been informed that my pledge shipped 10/16/2015 and they provided tracking. Tracking tends to be spotty for showing in the US, usually updated after I've received stuff. At least when I've ordered items shipped from Poland. Probably first couple weeks in Nov I should be seeing it, providing no complications.
This is one of those things I find useful to see on dakka about creators/sellers.
