I have the Khorne codex in hand, so feel free to ask any burning questions you might have

From a quick glance so far, it appears all profiles and costs of units are the same as Chaos Demon and Chaos Space Marine codexes (with the mark of khorne/demon of khorne upgrades added into the cost if the unit didn't already come with it added in).

All units have the Blood for the Blood God rule - this is the Blood Tithe rule that has already been discussed. Note that any units that are summoned via the Blood Tithe table enter play via Deep Strike within 6 or 12" from a friendly unit with the Blood for the Blood God rule, just like how Psychic Summoning works. Yes this means turning your characters (only ones without the Demon of Khorne rule) into Flying Demon Princes or Bloodthirsters is still kinda sucky, since you'll have to wait two turns before you charge... If you turn your Warlord into a Demon Prince/Bloodthirster, it doesn't count as a casualty for Slay the Warlord and you keep your Warlord Traits. Also note that a unit has to have the Blood for the Blood God rule to generate Blood Tithe, so no funneling allied Grots down the grinder lol.

Demons do not have the Demonic Instability rule - they instead have Fearless (meaning you can now join Demon and Chaos Marine Independent Characters together)

The Champion of Chaos rule is gone...

... only to be replaced with the Skulls for the Skull Throne! rule which does the exact same thing (except you don't even get Chaos Boons anymore). As an added bonus, all Demon characters have it now too! Thanks GW!

Skulltaker is the only named character in the book.

There are no Demonic Rewards.

Loci are available to Heralds, exactly the same as Chaos Demon Codex

Chaos Rewards are called Gifts of Khorne, and are the same except that the Gift of Mutation is not available. A Collar of Khorne can be bought for 15pts instead (same as what Flesh Hounds come with)

An Axe of Khorne (same as in Codex Chaos Demons) can be bought as a Melee Weapon for 30pts. Heralds of Khorne got dicked on there (they can take it as a Lesser Reward for 10pts in Codex Chaos Demon), but Chaos Marine characters can now enjoy an AP2 weapon at initiative.

There is a 50pt Artefact that grants a 3+ Armour Save, Eternal Warrior and Feel No Pain available to Chaos Lords and Demon Princes.

Ally Matrix:
Battle Brothers: Chaos Demons, Chaos Space Marines
Convenience: Necrons, Orks
Desperate: Dark Eldar, Tau
Come the Apocalypse: Imperium, Eldar, Harlequins, Tyranids



The Blood Host Detachment is a Necron Decurion style thing made up of 5 different Formations. The Blood Host detachment gives you 1 free Blood Tithe point at the start of each of your turns.

Core:
* Slaughtercult: (1 Chaos Lord/Herald/Blood Throne/Skulltaker/Demon Prince/Bloodthirster of Unfettered Fury, 2-8 Chaos Space Marines/Bezerkers/Bloodletters in any combination, 1-4 Possessed, 0-2 Spawn, 0-2 Cultists). If Cultists from this formation fail a Morale test, you can choose to remove the remaining models as casualties (thus earning a Blood Tithe point). When spending Blood Tithe points, you can choose a 2nd Reward of lesser value (but not more than 4pts worth) in addition for free.

Auxiliary (1-8 choices per Slaughtercult)
* Brazen Onlsaught: (1-4 Terminators, 2-4 Bloodcrushers). Units in this formation that are outnumbered in assault gain +1 attack

* Khorne's Bloodstorm: (2-4 Raptors, 1-4 Warp Talons, 0-1 Heldrake). Hammer of Wrath and Vector Strikes are +1S.

* Gorepack: (2-4 Chaos Bikers, 1-4 Flesh Hounds). Move Through Cover, Preferred Enemy (Psykers), Flesh Hounds gain Hammer of Wrath, Chaos Bikers gain Shred on their Hammer of Wrath attacks.

* Charnel Cohort: (1 Demon Prince/Herald/Blood Throne/Skulltaker, 2-8 Bloodletters, 1-4 Flesh Hounds, 1-4 Bloodcrushers, 0-4 Skull Cannons). Counter Attack, HQ can re-roll reserve rolls if in Deep Strike Reserve, All other units do not scatter from Deep Strike Reserve if placed within 6" of HQ, Enemy Units have -2Ld against Fear checks from units in this formation.

* War Engine: (1 Helbrute, Defiler, Soul Grinder, Forgefiend, Maulerfiend or Lord of Skulls). No extra special rules

Command (0-1 per Slaughtercult)
Lord of Slaughter - 1 Bloodthirster of Unfettered Fury/Insensate Rage/Wrath of Khorne or 1 Lord of Skulls. No extra special rules. The Bloodthirsters incidentally are the same as the White Dwarf dataslates, with the addition of the Skulls for the Skull Throne! Rule, Fearless instead of Demonic Instability and no options to purchase any extra wargear.



Minimum size of Cultist, Chaos Space Marine, Bezerker and Bloodletter units is now 8. You can still add models up to their previous max sizes (35 for cultists, 20 for the other three). This means the minimum cost for Cultists, Chaos Marines and Bezerkers went up, while the minimum cost for Bloodletters came down by the appropriate points.

You actually answered every question I had with that summary post!

Pretty miffed that Kharn is not in there!

Is there, by any chance, any kind of option to get assault transports? Or is it just rhinos and Landraiders again?

Many thanks for the comments. Some more questions:

1) Does 'Skulls for the Skull Throne' still grant bonuses for winning Challenges, or is it just the Must Challenge part?

2) Do any of the Formations allow Maulerfiends, Forgefiends, Helbrutes, Defilers or Soulgrinders? If not, I'd assume that they cannot be included in the Blood Host?

3) If a Character becomes a Prince / Bloodthirster, do they retain any Relics?

Fauk wrote:Is there, by any chance, any kind of option to get assault transports? Or is it just rhinos and Landraiders again?

Just Rhinos (Fast Attack) and Landraiders (Heavy Support) with the usual options for Dedicated Transports

Mozzamanx wrote:Many thanks for the comments. Some more questions:

1) Does 'Skulls for the Skull Throne' still grant bonuses for winning Challenges, or is it just the Must Challenge part?

2) Do any of the Formations allow Maulerfiends, Forgefiends, Helbrutes, Defilers or Soulgrinders? If not, I'd assume that they cannot be included in the Blood Host?

3) If a Character becomes a Prince / Bloodthirster, do they retain any Relics?

1) No Chaos Boons, though you do earn Blood Tithe for killing characters in challenges.

2) You can take 1 Helbrute, Defiler, Soul Grinder, Forgefiend, Maulerfiend or Lord of Skulls as War Engine as part of your 1-8 Formation choices per Slaughtercult. So Yes, you can take them as part of the Blood Host.

3) You keep relics if you become a Demon Prince (and ignore any restrictions of Demon Princes normally having that relic). Bloodthirsters lose them. Also, you can only summon a Bloodthirster of Unfettered Fury (the default one with an Axe of Khorne/Lash or Khorne) from Blood Tithe.

' Also note that a unit has to have the Blood for the Blood God rule to generate Blood Tithe, so no funneling allied Grots down the grinder lol. '

I was under the impression Blood Tithe was generated also when enemy units were killed. How does it work? Since most of the time enemies won't have Blood for the Blood God?

Huh. Don't know how I feel about any of that. Plus the lack of Kharn...

Do the relic axes strike at initiative or do they have Unwieldy?

Do Helbrutes, Maulerfiends, etc have the mark of Khorne or Daemon of Khorne?

LordBlades wrote:
' Also note that a unit has to have the Blood for the Blood God rule to generate Blood Tithe, so no funneling allied Grots down the grinder lol. '

I was under the impression Blood Tithe was generated also when enemy units were killed. How does it work? Since most of the time enemies won't have Blood for the Blood God?

I assume that it triggers when a unit with it either dies or kills.

Units without the rule not being able to generate points is a game-changer.

Do units not apart of the Daemonkin FoC/Formation benefit from Blood Tithe buffs (like the furious charge/FnP one)?

LordBlades wrote:' Also note that a unit has to have the Blood for the Blood God rule to generate Blood Tithe, so no funneling allied Grots down the grinder lol. '

I was under the impression Blood Tithe was generated also when enemy units were killed. How does it work? Since most of the time enemies won't have Blood for the Blood God?

You earn points when a unit containing at least 1 model with the Blood for the Blood God rule either kills an enemy unit or is completely destroyed and/or when a model with the Blood for the Blood God rule either kills an enemy character in a challenge or is killed in a challenge. What I meant was that you can't earn Blood Tithe from allied units, unless they were allied Khorne Demonkin (ie no running cheap packs of Grots or whatever at the enemy to get slaughtered so you can summon Bloodthirsters).

Cheexsta wrote:Do the relic axes strike at initiative or do they have Unwieldy?

Do Helbrutes, Maulerfiends, etc have the mark of Khorne or Daemon of Khorne?

There's 3 relic weapons
*+1S AP2 unwieldy axe that gets more powerful the more unsaved wounds it causes (1-2 wounds is +1S, 3-4 is Rampage, 5-7 is x2S, 8+ is Instant Death. All cumulative.)
* S User, AP3 sword that generates an extra blood tithe point if you cause at least 1 casualty in an assault phase.
* A special Axe of Khorne that in addition turns the bearer into a Bloodthirster of Unfettered Fury when he dies, but the Bloodthirster takes d3 wounds (can take Invuln saves) at the end of each turn.


It seems any unit from Codex: Chaos Space Marines that had the Demon rule, now has the Demon of Khorne rule. Forgefiends, Maulerfiends and Defilers all went up by 5pts seemingly because of this. Heldrakes are now Demons of Khorne too, but remained the same price (probably because Furious Charge and Hatred: Demons of Slaanesh are useless on a Flyer). Helbrutes have neither the Mark or Demon of Khorne rule. Possessed now have both the Demon and Mark of Khorne rules, for a 4pt increase (they are 30pts/model).

BlaxicanX wrote:Units without the rule not being able to generate points is a game-changer.

Do units not apart of the Daemonkin FoC/Formation benefit from Blood Tithe buffs (like the furious charge/FnP one)?

Blood Tithe buffs affect all friendly units with the Blood for the Blood God rule (which is every unit in the codex).


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh, something else I just noticed - the minimum size of Cultist, Chaos Marine, Bezerker and Bloodletter units is now 8. You can still add models up to their previous max sizes (35 for cultists, 20 for the other three). This means the minimum cost for Cultists, Chaos Marines and Bezerkers went up, while the minimum cost for Bloodletters came down by the appropriate points (remember to factor in Mark of Khorne costs for the Chaos Space Marine units).

I was hoping you could game n Bloid Tithe from.any enemy.unit that gets killed in any way. That would have opened some cool options.

When are Blood Tithe points spent?

changemod wrote:
When are Blood Tithe points spent?

Start of your turn. Meaning that if you are running a Blood Host Detachment, you'll always be able to at least gain the 1pt Tithe Reward (Adamantium Will) on the 1st Turn, since the Blood Host Detachment generates 1 Blood Tithe at the start of each of your turns

Does seem to me Skull Cannons are the optimal summon. Maybe using the secondary spend benefit to add a steady trickle of Bloodletter or Flesh Hound reinforcements.

Is Demonic Alignment a rule? Becuase that rule prevents DoK ICs from joining a unit that is not only comprised of DoK

 CrownAxe wrote:
Is Demonic Alignment a rule? Becuase that rule prevents DoK ICs from joining a unit that is not only comprised of DoK

There is no Demonic Alignment rule in the codex. The Demon of Khorne rule has the same bonuses as the Codex: Chaos Demon 'Demon of Khorne' rule (ie Furious Charge, Hatred: Demons of Slaanesh and Chariot HoW resolving at S7), but doesn't say anything about only being able to join units comprised entirely of Demons of Khorne. Creates a kinda weird scenario where a Codex: Khorne Demonkin Herald can join any Codex: Chaos Space Marine unit since they are Battle Brothers (barring Mark of Slaanesh/Tzeentch/Nurgle units) but can't join any Codex: Chaos Demon units because he lacks the Demonic Instability rule.

Okay question:

Does the relic-summoned Bloodthirster Deep Strike in?

Because that would mean they made a Bloodthirster who takes 1d3 wounds per turn but can't charge for two turns.

Can you get any of the following units in the Deamonkin codex or is it only via allies - Chaos Bikers, Raptors, Havocs, Predators

changemod wrote:
Okay question:

Does the relic-summoned Bloodthirster Deep Strike in?

Because that would mean they made a Bloodthirster who takes 1d3 wounds per turn but can't charge for two turns.

Well, seems he "deepstrikes" when the bearer of the axe dies.

So depends. Could be pretty good. Ideally, Relic-bearer dies in the opponent's assault phase, Bloodthirster arrives, ignoring interceptor, etc.., and charges on your own turn.

Wonderwolf wrote:

changemod wrote:
Okay question:

Does the relic-summoned Bloodthirster Deep Strike in?

Because that would mean they made a Bloodthirster who takes 1d3 wounds per turn but can't charge for two turns.

Well, seems he "deepstrikes" when the bearer of the axe dies.

So depends. Could be pretty good. Ideally, Relic-bearer dies in the opponent's assault phase, Bloodthirster arrives, ignoring interceptor, etc.., and charges on your own turn.

Won't be charging on your own turn because it would still would have to change flight modes and wait a turn.

 CrownAxe wrote:

Wonderwolf wrote:

changemod wrote:
Okay question:

Does the relic-summoned Bloodthirster Deep Strike in?

Because that would mean they made a Bloodthirster who takes 1d3 wounds per turn but can't charge for two turns.

Well, seems he "deepstrikes" when the bearer of the axe dies.

So depends. Could be pretty good. Ideally, Relic-bearer dies in the opponent's assault phase, Bloodthirster arrives, ignoring interceptor, etc.., and charges on your own turn.

Won't be charging on your own turn because it would still would have to change flight modes and wait a turn.

Not really. If he came in on the opponent's turn, he declares swooping-or-not at the start of your own turn, no?

Opponents turn: Kills Relic-bearer. Swooping BT comes in.
Your turn: Declare change in flight-mode, move, charge, profit.

Admittedly, it's a lot of ifs and things needing to go your way. But it could go this way.

If you deep strike you are forced to arrived in swooping mode,

The turn you change flight modes you can not charge.

changemod wrote:Okay question:

Does the relic-summoned Bloodthirster Deep Strike in?

Because that would mean they made a Bloodthirster who takes 1d3 wounds per turn but can't charge for two turns.

You are correct - the relic-axe specifically says the Bloodthirster is summoned when the bearer is removed as a casualty. I suppose technically the bearer could be killed in the enemy shooting phase, Bloodthirster is summoned (ie enters play via Deep Strike in Swoop Mode), is shot at by a different unit and Grounded, meaning it's starting the next turn in Glide mode and therefore able to charge.

Gaz Taylor wrote:Can you get any of the following units in the Deamonkin codex or is it only via allies - Chaos Bikers, Raptors, Havocs, Predators

Chaos Bikers and Raptors (and Warp Talons) are in. No Havocs or Predators.

Wonderwolf wrote:

Your turn: Declare change in flight-mode, move, charge, profit.

That was last edition, no?

Mutter wrote:

Wonderwolf wrote:

Your turn: Declare change in flight-mode, move, charge, profit.

That was last edition, no?

Yup. Fair enough. Guess I haven't played with FMC in a long while

@GoonBandito: Nice of you to answer our questions, I hope you'll continue for a while.

Is there any drawbacks if the Slaughter Cult is not chosen as the primary detachment?

A unit with the Blood of the Blood God has to deal the killing blow to an enemy unit to generate a Blood Point? Is there any information about what happens if a friendly unit without this rule deals the killing blow at the same time? - Could happen in a close combat.

Is it 20 more points for a base Possessed Marines unit now?

Just a theory, but maybe when they playtested all this they were unaware of the word "Always" in their own FMC rules.

The summoned Bloodthirster makes a lot more sense, both in regular summoning and here, if the design team were deep striking it using the Daemon rules rather than the FMC rules.

You have got to be kidding me. Summoned BT still useless ! Argh. And only the generic one. What am I going to do with this axe guy then?

50 pt Eternal warrior is pretty good , but no daemonheart.

Chaospling wrote:
@GoonBandito: Nice of you to answer our questions, I hope you'll continue for a while.

Is there any drawbacks if the Slaughter Cult is not chosen as the primary detachment?

A unit with the Blood of the Blood God has to deal the killing blow to an enemy unit to generate a Blood Point? Is there any information about what happens if a friendly unit without this rule deals the killing blow at the same time? - Could happen in a close combat.

Is it 20 more points for a base Possessed Marines unit now?

1) You can re-roll your Warlord Trait if the Slaughtercult formation is your primary detachment. There's no 'downsides' to it - it's just like any other formation.

2) There's no information about, but the obvious solution is just to roll your attacks separately so you can identify which unit gets the kill.

3) Yes.

1) Any information about the Khorne Daemonkin codex counting as a Chaos Daemons or Chaos Space Marines codex when it comes to Forgeworld models?

2) " You can take 1 Helbrute, Defiler, Soul Grinder, Forgefiend, Maulerfiend or Lord of Skulls as War Engine as part of your 1-8 Formation choices per Slaughtercult. So Yes, you can take them as part of the Blood Host. " - Don't know about the "War Engine" type, but does this just mean that they're essential their own single unit formation? - Just found the answer in your first post, thank you.

3) Does this further mean that an army could consist of the Slaughter Cult formation and 8 Soul Grinders?

I doubt the codex will mention frogeworld. We will have to seek clarification from them.. would love the bloodslaughterers to be included. (And all the classy csm vehicles)

Wait how much are Possessed in the book? Are they a minimum squad size of 8 now? When you say their 20 more points a base does this mean that its 230 points for a full squad?

I only ask because that's a steep point buy in for the Decurion style formation.

Are you sure about the point increase for Maulerfiends as they, like the Soul Grinder, don't benefit from the Furious Charge.

I also just saw your editing of the 2nd reward when spending Blood point - 4 points maximum for that one is a bummer...

Thanks for posting. Just wanted to snidley point out the sheer lunacy of increasing the cost of possessed, easily among the worst units in the game. Just wow.

Yeah it kind of hurts the entire formation that their required in.

Wouldn't the Bloodthirster replace the dead IC, thus not deepstriking but being added to the table where the dead IC was? Like the old CSM rules in 3.5.

What's "Skulls for the Skull Throne!"?

changemod wrote:
What's "Skulls for the Skull Throne!"?

From what I can tell, it seems like a renamed version of Champion of Chaos, meaning your characters are forced to issue a challenge (which also extends to the daemons as well in the book apparently).

It's Skulltakers rule, you always have to issue a challenge and you can never refuse a challenge.

@GoonBandito
Thanks for the input !

Even though Furious Charge is useless for a Maulerfiend, the fact that it's new considered as a Daemon of Khorne gives you the possibility to benefit from the Blood Throne and its locus.

Any info on the icons ? Scatter or not when deep striking within 6" of a CSM Icon ?

Sooo that axe into Bloodthirster relic is pretty crappy then, if you're forced to Deep Strike onto the table with it. You could take 6 wounds before you even get to do anything.

If I understand correctly, only units with the Blood for the Blood God rule generate points when they kill enemy units?

The unwieldly axes are pretty sad, could we get an approx cost on them? if they are super expensive then it is probably better to stick with a power fist if your HQ is a CSM.

Also is Veterans of the Log War still an option for the CSM or is it gone? Dunno about the world meta but I love to pay it on my army, for fluff and because there are so many loyalist armies out there that deserve the hatred.

Also getting rid of the chaos boon table is awesome 80% of the time it gave an useless boon, 15% of the time it made your HQ worst (DP/Spawn) and 5% it was useful. Thank you Khorne

Oh, also are the relics limited to 1 relic per character? or are they one of the replace one weapons for X, meaning that a DP might be able to wear the eternal warrior amour and replace his weapon with one of the axes/sword

Well my enthusiasm has taken a hit. What messed up way are they playing where assault consistently has to jump through extra hoops and pay a premium for the privilege.

So no daemonic rewards at all? So grimoire is out... Maybe a tzeentch support package is needed. ( Also tzeenrch brings the only decent AA)

 Wolf_in_Human_Shape wrote:
Sooo that axe into Bloodthirster relic is pretty crappy then, if you're forced to Deep Strike onto the table with it. You could take 6 wounds before you even get to do anything.

If I understand correctly, only units with the Blood for the Blood God rule generate points when they kill enemy units?

Yes, you CAN be shot down before you get to do anything.

But you also NEED to be shot down before you get to do anything.


At the very worst, its a "shooting tarpit" kind of unit. if the axe is cheap enough, its worth the deal.

Now I'm a bit confused. We've seen the actual leaked images (http://imgur.com/a/tlwTe) and it looks like the new Bloodthirsters were able to take daemonic rewards.

Anyway, if everything is true, this sounds like an extremely disappointing release. Copy-paste all these crappy units and tack on some extra points because of a mediocre new rule....the whole deep striking Daemon Prince/Bloodthirster thing doesn't even make sense. It's supposed to be a character on the table who turns into the daemon. It works that way in the CSM book.

I think those are for fielding them in a Codex Daemons detachment.

...which would explain why he also has daemonic instability. Good point, I completely forgot about that.

Am I blind or aren't the Warlord Traits unveiled?

Chaospling wrote:
Am I blind or aren't the Warlord Traits unveiled?

Warlod traits

1. Warlord and all units at 12" reroll distance to assault

2. Warlord has Zealot

3. Warlord gets +1A

4. After killing and enemy carácter in a challenge, you get 2 Blood points instead of only 1.

5. Warlord gets preferred enemy

6. Warlord automatically passes the LD test if he is chosen for the 7. and 8. of the Blood points table. (Becoming a Daemon Prince or a BT)

No I think someone posted them somewhere I know one of them is Zealot.

Honestly the Ability to get a 2 for 1 deal with the Decurion detachment and take up to 7 additional Maulerfiends and Soul Grinders is pretty powerful even if you do have the horrible cost of the Possesed which can be made sort of useful if you are just going for a body guard for your Lord who's deep striking maybe.


Still question how many points they are though if their 200+ then it's not worth it.

well those are underwhelming.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Urgh its looking like the WD BT is better than the daemonkin one... damn that means I need to buy a WD...

Looks like I'll be allying in Chaos Daemons for their Bloodthirsters-with-greater-rewards options that are lacking here.

It'd be nice to get some answers on the Possessed thats a big make or break deal for me personally. If that unit is 200 points that's a 200 point tax that is just to much to pay.

Hollismason wrote:
It'd be nice to get some answers on the Possessed thats a big make or break deal for me personally. If that unit is 200 points that's a 200 point tax that is just to much to pay.

Well 30 pts per possessed is realy only 1 point more that the cost on the CSM codex and on a min unit of 5, maybe 8 because of the new limits, its only 8 points.

I am more concerned about the terrible auxiliary options, all of them except for the warmachines and the gorepack are terrible.

What are the AP values of the sword which gives a Blood Point for every wound and of the two Axes and how many Dirge Casters are they worth?

Hollismason wrote:
It'd be nice to get some answers on the Possessed thats a big make or break deal for me personally. If that unit is 200 points that's a 200 point tax that is just to much to pay.

More expensive per model but still start as a 5-man squad.

 Lord Yayula wrote:
The unwieldly axes are pretty sad, could we get an approx cost on them? if they are super expensive then it is probably better to stick with a power fist if your HQ is a CSM.
Also is Veterans of the Log War still an option for the CSM or is it gone? Dunno about the world meta but I love to pay it on my army, for fluff and because there are so many loyalist armies out there that deserve the hatred.
Also getting rid of the chaos boon table is awesome 80% of the time it gave an useless boon, 15% of the time it made your HQ worst (DP/Spawn) and 5% it was useful. Thank you Khorne
Oh, also are the relics limited to 1 relic per character? or are they one of the replace one weapons for X, meaning that a DP might be able to wear the eternal warrior amour and replace his weapon with one of the axes/sword

3 weapons: 30, 35 and 60 points for each.
No VotLW at all.
1 Relic per character. Very explicit here.

Yes 30 points a piece, that's 150 points for a unit of 5 Possessed. Remember the usual 3 points go to the Mark of Khorne so we pay 1 point for Daemon of Khorne as no unit is just a Daemon, now it's a Daemon of Khorne.

Chaospling wrote:
What are the AP values of the sword which gives a Blood Point for every wound and of the two Axes and how many Dirge Casters are they worth?

The Blood Tithe Axe is AP3 and apparently it only grants you 1 point for inflicting any wounds not one each.

Yah, the weapons are pretty terrible really, the only good thing is the armor, which is pretty expensive por a chaos lord, since they already have the 3+ sv included in their cost. Great for a DP thou, for only 20 pts you get EW and FnP, sold.

Chaospling wrote:
Yes 30 points a piece, that's 150 points for a unit of 5 Possessed. Remember the usual 3 points go to the Mark of Khorne so we pay 1 point for Daemon of Khorne as no unit is just a Daemon, now it's a Daemon of Khorne.

So, 30 points for S5 T4, 2 attacks base, a random (but decent) ability in CC, 3+ Armor, 5++ Daemon save, fearless, Rage, Counter-attack and Furious charge? I mean, it is a little steep, but not a deal-breaker IMO. Everything essentially gaining Rage and Counter Attack, and some things gaining Furious charge for not many more points? Not terrible.

Do you definately get Mark of Khorne AND Daemon of Khorne?

Captyn_Bob wrote:
Do you definately get Mark of Khorne AND Daemon of Khorne?

From what I've heard, if it had the Daemon special rule previously, it's been changed to Daemon of Khorne.

 krodarklorr wrote:

Captyn_Bob wrote:
Do you definately get Mark of Khorne AND Daemon of Khorne?

From what I've heard, if it had the Daemon special rule previously, it's been changed to Daemon of Khorne.

That would make sense as a 1 pt increase if it gained both benefits

Part of me is very intrigued by this codex, part of me feels its a missed opportunity to fix some of the less than ideal Khorne units (Bloodcrushers and Berzerkers). If possessed gained Mark of Khorne AND Daemon of Khorne, that's a pretty big boost to them. Also, no warpstorm table to keep up with, no random rolls for wargear (this is a win and a loss), and psykic powers. Be an easy army to bookkeep!

I like the concept of the blood tithe and slaughter cult. I don't like the other detachments. I have to take 2 squads of bikes for 1 unit of hounds, meh...but 2 units of Raptors before I can get 1 unit of Talons or a heldrake??? Way too steep of a tax to me. The Decurian got away with that because none of the tax units on the really desirable detachments were useless or overpriced, but 2 units of Raptors is absurd. I do like the idea of the single daemon engines though. That makes me happy!

 krodarklorr wrote:

Chaospling wrote:
Yes 30 points a piece, that's 150 points for a unit of 5 Possessed. Remember the usual 3 points go to the Mark of Khorne so we pay 1 point for Daemon of Khorne as no unit is just a Daemon, now it's a Daemon of Khorne.

So, 30 points for S5 T4, 2 attacks base, a random (but decent) ability in CC, 3+ Armor, 5++ Daemon save, fearless, Rage, Counter-attack and Furious charge? I mean, it is a little steep, but not a deal-breaker IMO. Everything essentially gaining Rage and Counter Attack, and some things gaining Furious charge for not many more points? Not terrible.

Yeah well the problem is that you have to pay 240 Points all the time, as a bare minimum because of the 8 man squad size. Then the only assault vehicle you can get for them are landraiders, costing around 200 points more. If you don´t take a landraider these dudes just walk over the battlefield like normal marines. They don´t have any kind of grenades so they attack at ini 1 most of the time. They also don´t have any kind of AP if you don´t take the AP3 in account that you MAY get or not. So they are a cc only unit who doesn´t want to got into cc with any decent cc unit like Phantoms, Assaulttermis, Thunderwolfcavalery and so on. xD

30 points a model for a model that can break the rules if it gets transported, has T4 and 1W, 5+ Save vs. AP3.

Yeah sorry that's still terrible even with the whole 5 attacks on the charge paying 30 points for a squad that's slow, costly and no genuinely good ability is garbage.

1) can you take two Blood Host detachments and thereby generate 2 Blood Points a turn?

@Fauk: Possessed Marines squads are still at a minimum of 5, not 8.

2) Is it only possible to include a Chaos Lord through the Slaughter Cult detachment?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I will be using the Possessed Marines squad to share the Blood of the Blood God rule with a character. The character will apparently not benefit from the rule if he's in a challenge, but if he's chosen to destroy enemy units it's nice that I will get Blood Points in addition to the kill. Yes they still need a form of transport, but I needed a transport for the character no matter what. A Land Raider with 1st War of Armageddon will fit this army nicely.

It's still a steep tax to pay for the Decurion style Detachment, although the detachmnt does gain some very beneficial rules of Producing a BLood Token every turn with that and getting first blood or they getting first blood you can pretty much guarentee a turn 3 FNP and RAge + Furious Charge.

Also The Defiler gets RAGE, which if kitted out for CC can come out to a obscene number of Attacks.

Chaospling wrote:
Automatically Appended Next Post:
I will be using the Possessed Marines squad to share the Blood of the Blood God rule with a character. The character will apparently not benefit from the rule if he's in a challenge, but if he's chosen to destroy enemy units it's nice that I will get Blood Points in addition to the kill. Yes they still need a form of transport, but I needed a transport for the character no matter what. A Land Raider with 1st War of Armageddon will fit this army nicely.

What makes you think it works that way? Maybe I missed it. I mean it makes sense, but I foresee a "if every model in the unit has this rule" clause.

Wouldn't the defiler get furious charge ).. sadly worthless).

Next question is if FW legacies can be taken in this list.

I'm going with YES.

The 1st war of armageddon could be a big boost.

So even Rhinos get Blood for the Blood God?

Mech up, boys.

How about Auloth The Primordial Sun? Isnt that one pretty good?

Hollismason wrote:
30 points a model for a model that can break the rules if it gets transported, has T4 and 1W, 5+ Save vs. AP3.

Yeah sorry that's still terrible even with the whole 5 attacks on the charge paying 30 points for a squad that's slow, costly and no genuinely good ability is garbage.

I think you are confusing the possessed table on the CSM with the Crimson one. CSM possessed can take rhinos and never change to beasts like the CS do iirc.

Since the first rumors came out I was excited to field some of my raptors with this list for an all assault army, but with that terrible raptors+warptalons formations everything just went down to hell. I think the best option will be a Slaugthercult attachment + Gorepack + maybe the Charnel Cohort, A DP that lets the daemon units deepstrike without scattering and re-rolls on reserves sounds great

Hoever I personally think I'll be fielding something like this on 2000 pts to make use of my raptors

Slaughtercult - 915

Juggy Lord, Sigil, Meltabombs, Relic Boosting axe - 170
8 Zerks, Power Weapon, Meltabombs, Rhino (Dozer blade + Dirge Caster) - 227
10 CSM, 2 meltas, extra ccw, Power Weapon, Meltabombs, Rhino (Dozer blade + Dirge Caster) - 263
7 Possessed, Rhino (Dozer blade + Dirge Caster) - 255

War Engine - 130

Maulerfiend

CAD - 954

HQ
Daemon Prince, Wings, Relic Armour - 250

Troops

10xCultists, Flamer - 75
8 Bloodletters, champion - 85

Fast
10 Flesh hounds - 160
8 Raptors, 2 meltas, Power Weapon, Meltabombs - 192
8 Raptors, 2 meltas, Power Weapon, Meltabombs - 192

Total: 1999

Doesn't look so bad, Everything would be moving at least 12" in the first turn, with the exception of the cultists that could just hide behind cover to secure an objective on your own side. The juggy with 10 flesh hounds should be pretty hard to take down. Sure, 3 Rhinos, 1 Maulferfiend, 2 squads of raptors with meltas, the DP and the juggy with flesh hounds should be enough target saturation to secure some assaults on Turn 2, and those units who fail to reach the assault will just help the rest of the army with points on the Blood Tithe

 Wolf_in_Human_Shape wrote:

Chaospling wrote:
Automatically Appended Next Post:
I will be using the Possessed Marines squad to share the Blood of the Blood God rule with a character. The character will apparently not benefit from the rule if he's in a challenge, but if he's chosen to destroy enemy units it's nice that I will get Blood Points in addition to the kill. Yes they still need a form of transport, but I needed a transport for the character no matter what. A Land Raider with 1st War of Armageddon will fit this army nicely.

What makes you think it works that way? Maybe I missed it. I mean it makes sense, but I foresee a "if every model in the unit has this rule" clause.

It's from GoonBandito, who has the codex, and midway on the first page of this thread:

"You earn points when a unit containing at least 1 model with the Blood for the Blood God rule either kills an enemy unit or is completely destroyed and/or when a model with the Blood for the Blood God rule either kills an enemy character in a challenge or is killed in a challenge. What I meant was that you can't earn Blood Tithe from allied units, unless they were allied Khorne Demonkin (ie no running cheap packs of Grots or whatever at the enemy to get slaughtered so you can summon Bloodthirsters). "

Chaospling wrote:
Automatically Appended Next Post:
I will be using the Possessed Marines squad to share the Blood of the Blood God rule with a character. The character will apparently not benefit from the rule if he's in a challenge, but if he's chosen to destroy enemy units it's nice that I will get Blood Points in addition to the kill. Yes they still need a form of transport, but I needed a transport for the character no matter what. A Land Raider with 1st War of Armageddon will fit this army nicely.

Daemonkin are not a CSM codex so can't take any Legacies or IA vehicles

 CrownAxe wrote:

Chaospling wrote:
Automatically Appended Next Post:
I will be using the Possessed Marines squad to share the Blood of the Blood God rule with a character. The character will apparently not benefit from the rule if he's in a challenge, but if he's chosen to destroy enemy units it's nice that I will get Blood Points in addition to the kill. Yes they still need a form of transport, but I needed a transport for the character no matter what. A Land Raider with 1st War of Armageddon will fit this army nicely.

Daemonkin are not a CSM codex so can't take any Legacies or IA vehicles

I would include a Combined Arms Detachment from the Chaos Space Marines codex. Besides, Forgeworld will probably soon publish an FAQ for Imperial Armour 13(2nd version) based on the Khorne Daemonkin codex - can't imagine why this army shouldn't include at least Blood Slaughterers.

Chaospling wrote:

 CrownAxe wrote:

Chaospling wrote:
Automatically Appended Next Post:
I will be using the Possessed Marines squad to share the Blood of the Blood God rule with a character. The character will apparently not benefit from the rule if he's in a challenge, but if he's chosen to destroy enemy units it's nice that I will get Blood Points in addition to the kill. Yes they still need a form of transport, but I needed a transport for the character no matter what. A Land Raider with 1st War of Armageddon will fit this army nicely.

Daemonkin are not a CSM codex so can't take any Legacies or IA vehicles

I would include a Combined Arms Detachment from the Chaos Space Marines codex. Besides, Forgeworld will probably soon publish an FAQ for Imperial Armour 13(2nd version) based on the Khorne Daemonkin codex - can't imagine why this army shouldn't include at least Blood Slaughterers.

Using an allied detachment makes it even less desirable to take the Daemonkin as you wold have units that not only don't count for the Blood Tithe but would gain no benefits from spending your points.

Can I add a Gorepack or Brazen Onslaught to a Chaos Space Marine army? Are they seperate Formations or are they ONLY allowed alongside the Slaughtercult? Do their smaller bonus still apply and I'm only missing out on the Blood Tithe set of rules?

 ClassicCarraway wrote:
I like the concept of the blood tithe and slaughter cult. I don't like the other detachments. I have to take 2 squads of bikes for 1 unit of hounds, meh...but 2 units of Raptors before I can get 1 unit of Talons or a heldrake??? Way too steep of a tax to me. The Decurian got away with that because none of the tax units on the really desirable detachments were useless or overpriced, but 2 units of Raptors is absurd. I do like the idea of the single daemon engines though. That makes me happy!

The Gorepack Formation (2-4 Bikers, 1-4 Flesh Hounds) seems pretty decent, since Bikers and Flesh Hounds are both pretty good units in their own right. That you get Move Through Cover (though Flesh Hounds already have this due to being Beasts), Preferred Enemy (Psykers), Hammer of Wrath on Flesh Hounds and Shred on HoW for Bikers is just icing on top. I can see that being an easy addition to a CAD CSM army.

Okay so how is this ? I can actually field this now I got 3 Maulers n 3 Soul Grinders.

Bloody Blood Blood Detachment

Juggernaut Lord w/ Sigil , Get's Betta Sword , meltabombs, combimelta

8 Blood Letters
8 Blood Letters
5 Possessed :(

Gorepack
2 x 5 Bike Squads w/ CombiMelta , Meltas
10 Flesh Hounds
10 Flesh Hounds
10 Flesh Hounds

Soul Grinder / Baleful
Soul Grinder / Baleful
Soul Grinder / Baleful
Mauler Fiend
Mauler Fiend
Mauler Fiend

How many points is that

Is GW on a mission to stop making charachters from here on out? Seems theyre nixing them left and right. As much as I dont like Khorne, Khorne without Kharn is like real corn without... butter and stuff i guess.

 Eldarain wrote:
Well my enthusiasm has taken a hit. What messed up way are they playing where assault consistently has to jump through extra hoops and pay a premium for the privilege.

The crazy part is that the game has so obviously moved into a more shooting-focused iteration and yet they keep tormenting Assault Armies with the idea that those builds should still be useful.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Jollydevil wrote:
Is GW on a mission to stop making charachters from here on out? Seems theyre nixing them left and right. As much as I dont like Khorne, Khorne without Kharn is like real corn without... butter and stuff i guess.

Isn't he in the core CSM codex?

Does Loci affect any Daemonkin units or only Daemons of Khorne ?
A Blood Throne in the middle of a Gorepack with Maulerfiend could be awesome ...
By the way, are icons still available ? what are their effects ?

ondskapt wrote:
Does Loci affect any Daemonkin units or only Daemons of Khorne ?
A Blood Throne in the middle of a Gorepack with Maulerfiend could be awesome ...
By the way, are icons still available ? what are their effects ?

Loci are exactly the same as Codex: Chaos Demons. But now that you can put Demon ICs in Chaos Marine units and vice versa, you can give CSM units the Loci effects.

Icons/Instruments are still there, and as far as I know they work exactly the same as they do in their respective codexes. At work atm, so don't have the codex on hand to double check.

The things on bloody pre order last time I checked, so unless you nicked one I dont know how you got it.

Well my 2000 points list would so far be:

Combined Arms Detachment from the Chaos Space Marines codex:


HQ - 240 points

Chaos Lord with Mark of Khorne, Axe of Blind Fury - Goes with the Khorne Daemonkin Possessed Marines in the Land Raider

Chaos Sorcerer, Psychic level 3, Bike - Goes with the Khorne Daemonkin Fleshhounds (Maybe the Bikes so not to lose the Toughness 5)

Troops - 245 points

8 Chaos Space Marines, Plasmagun

7 Chaos Space Marines, Plasmagun

Heavy Support - 395 points

1 Obliterator

1 Chaos Rapier Weapons Battery, Cyclotrathe pattern conversion beamer

Chaos Land Raider, 1st War of Armageddon


Bloodhost

Slaughtercult

HQ - 55 points

Herald of Khorne

Troops - 200 Points

8 Bloodletters, Instrument, Icon

8 Bloodletters, Instrument, Icon

Elites - 150 points

5 Possessed Marines

War Engines - 430 points

1 Blood Slaughterer, Impaler (Given this will be possible of course)

Soul Grinder, Baleful Torrent

Maulerfiend, Lasher Tendrils


Gore Pack detachment:

Bikes and Hounds - 266 points

3 Chaos Bikers, 2 Meltaguns

3 Chaos Bikers, 2 Meltaguns

5 Flesh Hounds

This leaves 25 points which probably will go to the Bikes, Hounds or gear for the Herald.

2 Chaos Space Marines squads, 1 Obliterator, 1 Chaos Rapier weapons battery and 1 Land Raider do not earn Blood Points when dealing the "killing blow" to a unit. The Herald of Khorne will probably join Chaos Space Marines squad to confer Fearless and be ready to defend deployment zone.

Bloodletters, Blood Slaughterer, Soul Grinder and maybe the Obliterator will Deep Strike. Bloodletters will help the Blood Slaughterer and Soul Grinder to join the battle.
One-zone-attack: Land Raider transporting Possessed Marines and the Chaos Lord will advance with Maulerfiend, Hounds and Chaos Sorcerer closeby, maybe also the Bikes.

That's my first thoughts. Will try to make the Khorne Daemonkin codex work with other codices as we can work around the problem of other units not having the Blood for the Blood God special rule.

Edit: Forgot to give the Bikes the Mark of Khorne. So that's 19 points where some will go to a Dirge Caster for the Land Raider and some to the rearrangement of the Chaos Space Marines squads so one can get a Lascannon instead of a Plasmagun. That leaves 9 points then.

What about the Land Raider? Any way to get one in the formation without having to take terminators? would be nice to have a sturdier box to move berzerkers around

Chaospling wrote:
Well my 2000 points list would so far be:

Combined Arms Detachment from the Chaos Space Marines codex:

HQ - 240 points

Chaos Lord with Mark of Khorne, Axe of Blind Fury - Goes with the Khorne Daemonkin Possessed Marines in the Land Raider

Chaos Sorcerer, Psychic level 3, Bike - Goes with the Khorne Daemonkin Fleshhounds (Maybe the Bikes so not to lose the Toughness 5)

Troops - 245 points

8 Chaos Space Marines, Plasmagun

7 Chaos Space Marines, Plasmagun

Heavy Support - 395 points

1 Obliterator

1 Chaos Rapier Weapons Battery, Cyclotrathe pattern conversion beamer

Chaos Land Raider, 1st War of Armageddon

Bloodhost

Slaughtercult

HQ - 55 points

Herald of Khorne

Troops - 200 Points

8 Bloodletters, Instrument, Icon

8 Bloodletters, Instrument, Icon

Elites - 150 points

5 Possessed Marines

War Engines - 430 points

1 Blood Slaughterer, Impaler (Given this will be possible of course)

Soul Grinder, Baleful Torrent

Maulerfiend, Lasher Tendrils


Gore Pack detachment:

Bikes and Hounds - 260 points

3 Chaos Bikers, 2 Meltaguns

3 Chaos Bikers, 2 Meltaguns

5 Flesh Hounds

This leaves 25 points which probably will go to the Bikes, Hounds or gear for the Herald.

2 Chaos Space Marines squads, 1 Obliterator, 1 Chaos Rapier weapons battery and 1 Land Raider do not earn Blood Points when dealing the "killing blow" to a unit. The Herald of Khorne will probably join Chaos Space Marines squad to confer Fearless and be ready to defend deployment zone.

Bloodletters, Blood Slaughterer, Soul Grinder and maybe the Obliterator will Deep Strike. Bloodletters will help the Blood Slaughterer and Soul Grinder to join the battle.
One-zone-attack: Land Raider transporting Possessed Marines and the Chaos Lord will advance with Maulerfiend, Hounds and Chaos Sorcerer closeby, maybe also the Bikes.

That's my first thoughts. Will try to make the Khorne Daemonkin codex work with other codices as we can work around the problem of other units not having the Blood for the Blood God special rule.

I kinda get the vibe that you won't really generate many BT points due to the lack of assault power on most of the daemonkin units, and even after getting some the only unit that might have some real benefit will be the possessed, since the rest will have a hard time staying alive. Mixing the hounds and herald with CSM units sounds nice, however a better organized CSM force with just an allied detachment would be cheaper and still allow you to field both of those units.

How does the axe that turns you into a bloodthirster when you die work? Do you take d3 wounds for holding it, d3 wounds for holding it only once you've turned into the BT or both? What sort of points value are we looking at for it?

 Drasius wrote:
How does the axe that turns you into a bloodthirster when you die work? Do you take d3 wounds for holding it, d3 wounds for holding it only once you've turned into the BT or both? What sort of points value are we looking at for it?

Once you have turned into a BT and is 60 pts, pretty expensive for a power axe

Cheers.

@Lord Yayula: I wanted target saturation, ranged attacks and earn Blood Points with units which don't have the Blood for the Blood God special rule. The Herald could join the Chaos Rapier Weapons Battery and enjoy Toughness 7 and hope that the Conversion beamer will kill something.
You don't think that the Chaos Lord with a Axe of Blind Fury + 5 Possessed, the Conversion Beamer, 2 x 3 Bikes with 2 Meltaguns each, the Maulerfiend, the Blood Slaughter or the Soul Grinder will kill anything? I would go for a Blood Thirster and the +1 Attack.

 CrownAxe wrote:
How many points is that

2,115 A More Realistic would probably be

Juggerlord (170)
2x8 Blood Letters(160)
Possessed (160)

3x3 2 Meltagun Bike Squads ( 288)
10 Flesh Hounds (160)
10 Flesh Hounds (160)

Mauler Fiend x 2 (260)
Soul Grinder x 3 (310)

1818

My point is you can do all kinds of crazy gak with the codex if you want to the only problem is the 150 points of worthlessness that you gotta take :(.

Chaospling wrote:
@Lord Yayula: I wanted target saturation, ranged attacks and earn Blood Points with units which don't have the Blood for the Blood God special rule. The Herald could join the Chaos Rapier Weapons Battery and enjoy Toughness 7 and hope that the Conversion beamer will kill something.
You don't think that the Chaos Lord with a Axe of Blind Fury + 5 Possessed, the Conversion Beamer, 2 x 3 Bikes with 2 Meltaguns each, the Maulerfiend, the Blood Slaughter or the Soul Grinder will kill anything? I would go for a Blood Thirster and the +1 Attack.

I highly doubt the Blood Slaughter can be fielded, at least at this time, maybe with a FAQ or update from FW.

The possessed unit sure it will with the chaos lord.

3 T5 bikes, with 2 melta shots may take down some light AV if the enemy doesn't focus them, which if you are getting close with bikes, hounds, AV12 maulerfiend, AV 14 LR and AV13 soul grinder, the hounds and bikes will eat all the S7 or less hits, the heavy firepower will go to one of the armored units. So one of those squads probably won't make it.

And even once you get the 8 BT which should take around 3 turns with the +1 bonus from the formation, assuming the rapier does tons of dmg as well as the walkers. Which character would be left to be the vessel for the BT?, the Herald, hopefully 1 Biker champion and that's it. Or trade the herald for a BT, which will DS in said turn 3, change to ground mode on turn 4 and get a charge on turn 5

Yeah but you could also just

Skulltaker on a Juggernaught
5 Possesed
8 Bloodletters
8 Bloodletters

2 x 5 Chaos Bikers w/ 2 Melta Guns , Combimelta
5 Hounds

3 Maulerfiends
3 Soul Grinders

It's a good codex is what I'm saying because you can mix Soul Grinders and Mauler Fiends in large numbers together in one army. Using bikes to screen the Maulerfiends , then deep strike your blood letters w/ a Musician and Icon to bring in the Soul Grinders who can handle Flying stuff.

I mean being able to bring 4 Units of Flesh Hounds w/ Bikers that can have meltas , then taking a lot of mauler fiends and Flesh Hounds is pretty amazing.

@Lord Yayula: Actually I just read that the possession can only happen through a character with the Daemon of Khorne special rule (Would be cooler if only mortals could be possessed though i.e. characters with the Mark of Khorne.) So that leaves the Possessed Champion and the Herald, so a Daemon Prince or Blood Thirster probably won't happen... Well maybe they will.

Also remember that most of my units generate Blood Points when they die or those Bike and Hounds aren't much more expensive than a squad of Cultists.

Edit: Grammar.

You know what would make sense?

Mortals are promoted to Daemon Prince, Heralds and unit leader Daemons are elevated to the eighth rank of Bloodthirster.

@Lord Yayula: I misread - only models with the Blood of the Blood God special rule and WITHOUT the Daemon of Khorne special rule can be possessed.

@changemod: Hehe yup, that makes more sense.

Chaospling wrote:
@Lord Yayula: I misread - only models with the Blood of the Blood God special rule and WITHOUT the Daemon of Khorne special rule can be possessed.

@changemod: Hehe yup, that makes more sense.

Mmmm, that takes the possessed champion out of it and leaves only the 2 champions on the bikes as vessels for the BT or DP

@Lord Yayula: Agreed.

To be honest, due to the restrictions on Summoning, I wouldn't be focused on trying to summon in Demon Princes or Bloodthirsters. Well maybe a Demon Prince without wings, since you only have to wait 1 turn before you charge. Summoning Flying Monstrous Creatures isn't exactly stellar with the ways we can do it now (Malefic Demonology), and I don't think Blood Tithe is going to change that. Especially since you can at least attempt to summon a Bloodthirster/Lord of Change on turn 1 with Psychic Summoning - there's very little chance of getting 7 or 8 Blood Tithe points on turn 1 or even turn 2.

I think you're much better off using the Blood Tithe to gain the Rage/Furious Charge, Feel No Pain and +Attack buffs. Summoning Bloodletters/Flesh Hounds or Bloodcrushers/Skull Cannons might be useful in some situations, particularly the Skull Cannon since it can shoot after it Deep Strikes, but overall buffing your guys that are actually going to assault this turn would be a much more beneficial tactic.

What was the cost of the Possessed?

Oh does the regular Cad have any bonuses ?

Hollismason wrote:
What was the cost of the Possessed?

Oh does the regular Cad have any bonuses ?

Possessed are 4pts/model more expensive than in Codex: Chaos Space Marines. This takes into account the cost of the Mark of Khorne (3pts/model for Possessed) and the Demon of Khorne (apparently priced at 1pt/model for Possessed) rules. Minimum squad is 5 for 150pts.

A regular CAD is a regular CAD... same as the Base Rule Book. The only Detachment in the Demonkin book is the Blood Host (Decurion Style thing) and the 5 Formations that can either be included in the Blood Host or separately like any other formation.

Do all of the Vehicles have the Blood rule as well like the Defiler etc..?

Are their options for Musicians and Instruments in the Bloodletter and other squads?

Its been 8 -9 months that i din't play, because i've lost all motivation.

i was just waiting for a rumored khorne codex or World eaters thing, with not much conviction...

i was excited when i saw the rumors about this book, but those last leaks just killed it again.

Now i'm terrified of what a eventual futur World eaters codex would end up looking like, i'm so afraid of it, that i simply don't want to see it becoming real.

Please GW, stop, stop the bleeding, make CSM something like a NPC race, and leave it alone, its depressing...

I don't understand why you are upset this is a pretty decent book. It's missed some things like Chosen and Kharn but otherwise the unit selection is incredibly excellent.

Turn 2 you are almost guarenteed with the Bloodhost to get FNP or more , that's pretty great FNP a turn? Yes please.

How many of each formation are you allowed to take? In one of the "decurian" like formation can I have more than just 1 warmachine?

Also do people realize how insanely awesome the Flesh Hound are from that detachment?

10 Flesh Hounds Base 2 Attacks, use 3 Blood Points, they get Feel no pain and pick Rage. They also have hammer of Wrath.

That's 10 ST4 and 40 ST 5 Attacks WS5.

That's really good on a 16 point model thats Fearless , 5+ , 5+ FNP.

Now add in that you can easily add 2 Mauler Fiends and 2 Soul Grinders to the Detachment for a very respectable cost.

Follow up to the earlier question about getting a land raider in the formation without having to make it a DT of termis--Is it still allowed to take dozer blades, or have they nixed that for chaos like they have for the loyalist variants?

Hollismason wrote:
I don't understand why you are upset this is a pretty decent book. It's missed some things like Chosen and Kharn but otherwise the unit selection is incredibly excellent.

Turn 2 you are almost guarenteed with the Bloodhost to get FNP or more , that's pretty great FNP a turn? Yes please.

Why upset?, it litterally takes Half of both codexes rules and toss them in the sewer, so you end up with units that have only parts of their rules, that got replaced by 2 gimmicky rules, with no wargear for one side and overpriced wargear for the other.

Gimmicky rules where its supposedly centered around grinding points to summon MOAR deamons, but those Deamons can't do jack gak for a whole 2 turns in most cases.

Its litteraly the Only codex in existance, where there is HQ models that CAN'T TAKE fething WARGEAR, even freakin Nids Bugs have WARGEAR on their darned tyrants...

No new unit, despite this thing been a full codex and not just a supplement( feth even some supplements have new/modified units and/or special characters).

And in no way they did address the problems that there is with those two codexes in the first place.

So yeah its a fun to watch book, i don't find it a fun to play book, now thats just like my opinion i know, but i'm really dissapointed with this.

Do you even have the book?

Hollismason wrote:
Do all of the Vehicles have the Blood rule as well like the Defiler etc..?

Are their options for Musicians and Instruments in the Bloodletter and other squads?

1) Yes. I think even Rhinos and Land Raiders have it too, but I'll have to check

2) Yes, same as Codex: Chaos Demons. Summoned squads that have those options can take them for free when they are summoned, just like Psychic Summoning.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 dragoonmaster101 wrote:
How many of each formation are you allowed to take? In one of the "decurian" like formation can I have more than just 1 warmachine?

Check my OP which has the Blood Host Detachment outline

Why do you have a Fleur De Lis as your icon?

 GoonBandito wrote:

Hollismason wrote:
Do all of the Vehicles have the Blood rule as well like the Defiler etc..?

Are their options for Musicians and Instruments in the Bloodletter and other squads?

1) Yes. I think even Rhinos and Land Raiders have it too, but I'll have to check

2) Yes, same as Codex: Chaos Demons. Summoned squads that have those options can take them for free when they are summoned, just like Psychic Summoning.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 dragoonmaster101 wrote:
How many of each formation are you allowed to take? In one of the "decurian" like formation can I have more than just 1 warmachine?

Check my OP which has the Blood Host Detachment outline

Uh... That still doesn't answer my question, can you only take one of each formation or is it unlimited?

Edit: OOOPS srry, just going to clarify here so I can take up to 8 in total of any formation?

I already have my Deathstar planned if we can mix demons and marines.... Blood Cult, with a squad of 15-20 strong berzerkers (+1 S on charge, 5 WS), and a Herald with the Locus of Fury ( Rage = +2 A on charge). Then a CAD including Kharn (warlord trait, gives a unit he joins Hatred, re-roll failed to hit in 1st round of combat) and throw them all in a Spartan Assault tank with the Legacy of Ruin, Maelstrom rider, so the vehicle has outflank. Heads are gonna roll,if this is legal ;p

Mark of Khorne already grants Rage. You just need to give the Herald an Exalted Locus. They also won't be able to charge the turn they arrive from reserves, so no point starting off the board.

Hollismason wrote:
Why do you have a Fleur De Lis as your icon?

Because I'm a Sisters player who is also a dirty Chaos Worshipper D:


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 dragoonmaster101 wrote:


Uh... That still doesn't answer my question, can you only take one of each formation or is it unlimited?

Edit: OOOPS srry, just going to clarify here so I can take up to 8 in total of any formation?

Yes Bloodhost is 1+ Slaughtercult Formations, and then 1-8 of Brazen Onslaught/Khorne's Bloodstorm/Gorepack/Charnel Cohort/War Engine and 0-1 Lords of Slaughter per Slaughtercult. So you could have a Blood Host Detachment that is a Single Herald, 2 Bloodletter units, 1 Possessed Unit and 8 Soul Grinders.

 CrownAxe wrote:

Chaospling wrote:
Automatically Appended Next Post:
I will be using the Possessed Marines squad to share the Blood of the Blood God rule with a character. The character will apparently not benefit from the rule if he's in a challenge, but if he's chosen to destroy enemy units it's nice that I will get Blood Points in addition to the kill. Yes they still need a form of transport, but I needed a transport for the character no matter what. A Land Raider with 1st War of Armageddon will fit this army nicely.

Daemonkin are not a CSM codex so can't take any Legacies or IA vehicles

Oops, missed that line! Thanks!


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 GoonBandito wrote:

Hollismason wrote:
What was the cost of the Possessed?

Oh does the regular Cad have any bonuses ?

Possessed are 4pts/model more expensive than in Codex: Chaos Space Marines. This takes into account the cost of the Mark of Khorne (3pts/model for Possessed) and the Demon of Khorne (apparently priced at 1pt/model for Possessed) rules. Minimum squad is 5 for 150pts.

A regular CAD is a regular CAD... same as the Base Rule Book. The only Detachment in the Demonkin book is the Blood Host (Decurion Style thing) and the 5 Formations that can either be included in the Blood Host or separately like any other formation.

Auxiliary (1-8 choices per Slaughtercult

So the formations can be taken on their own in any number, or 1-8 if part of a Blood Host?

Can Daemon Princes take close combat weapons, or only Artefacts/Gifts of Khorne or whatever?

Can we get point costs for all the artefacts, please?

 jpjupiter wrote:
I already have my Deathstar planned if we can mix demons and marines.... Blood Cult, with a squad of 15-20 strong berzerkers (+1 S on charge, 5 WS), and a Herald with the Locus of Fury ( Rage = +2 A on charge). Then a CAD including Kharn (warlord trait, gives a unit he joins Hatred, re-roll failed to hit in 1st round of combat) and throw them all in a Spartan Assault tank with the Legacy of Ruin, Maelstrom rider, so the vehicle has outflank. Heads are gonna roll,if this is legal ;p

Well Chaos Space Marine Berserkers will get Rage with the Blood Points so you may not have to do all of that . Exalted Locus or whatever.

I think there's not a lot of oppurtunity to have a Deathstar with this codex unfortunately.

However I do think there's a possibility of Doing a almost all mobile force.

Do we know what the options for the Chaos Marine Squad are? 2 Special weapons in a 8 man squad possibly?




Automatically Appended Next Post:
Someone pointed it out but you can have a better version of Smashgakker in this army.

Chaos Lord w/ 2 Powerfists
Juggernaut
Sigil
The Eternal Warrior , FNP


He has 7 attacks on the charge and if you give him the +1 from the chart it's even more.

Why would you give him 2 power fists instead of a power fist and lightning claw?

Hollismason wrote:
Do we know what the options for the Chaos Marine Squad are? 2 Special weapons in a 8 man squad possibly?

Same as Codex: Chaos Space Marines - 1 special in 5, another special or heavy at 10

Also, to whoever was asking, Rhinos and Land Raiders do have the Blood for the Blood God rule which creates some fun: Flat Out your Rhino towards the enemy and if they pop it, well thank you very much for the Blood Tithe point.

No 2+ save ... So no I don't think you can build a deathstar anywhere near as good as marines. (Also no grimoire and no belakor...So I would ally those in)

Can Daemon Princes take close combat weapons, or only Artefacts/Gifts of Khorne or whatever?

Can we get point costs for all the artefacts, please?

Do you (and anybody else) like the new codex?

I don't like it - I'm disappointed which results in no new purchases of books or models and I hope they'll lose money on this product.

Wolf_in_Human_Shape wrote:Can Daemon Princes take close combat weapons, or only Artefacts/Gifts of Khorne or whatever?

Can we get point costs for all the artefacts, please?

The points are a few pages back, for the weapons and the power armor at least. The fear one probably isn't worth it anyway.

KaptinBadrukk wrote:Do you (and anybody else) like the new codex?

I do like it, I try to field a multiple units assault on my CSM army with MoN (bikes), MoK (AoBF & Spawns), markless raptors, markless marines on rhinos with special weapons, etc, etc.

So this codex lets me keep pretty much everything, except the sorcerer that usually runs with the bikes, for a more durable army with the blood tithe points, better warlord traits than the CSM, get rid of the damn chaos boon table, and when in trouble ask khorne for a hand to reinforce the army. I like it just because it is less awful than the CSM one, which honestly any book could be. I do miss the VotLW thou

 Lord Yayula wrote:

Wolf_in_Human_Shape wrote:Can Daemon Princes take close combat weapons, or only Artefacts/Gifts of Khorne or whatever?

Can we get point costs for all the artefacts, please?

The points are a few pages back, for the weapons and the power armor at least. The fear one probably isn't worth it anyway.

I'm only seeing the point costs for the armor, and somewhere else someone mentioned 60 points for the bloodthirster axe. That is only 2 out of 6.

Please provide a link if I've missed something.

So if I'm reading Blood Tithe right, if a unit with a character (such as a sgt) is wiped out, that gives 2 tithe points? A unit was wiped out and a character was wiped out. That could get insane with min sized cultist squads.

Take the slaughter cult to generate a point each turn, then take a CAD with nothing but min-sized cultist units with squad leader. Run the cultists spread out and straight at your opponent. Your opponent can kill them, generating a boat load of Blood Tithe points, or ignore them, which allows them to secure objectives (because they are from the CAD), tie up units in assault, and provide cover saves to the mortal units behind them. Win-Win!

I thought that the characters had to die/kill in challenges to get the point?

and the slaughtercult isn't a CAD, no no objective secured.

That's a poorly placed comma, but yes. Sounds like two per unit with a character.

Wolf_in_Human_Shape wrote:

 Lord Yayula wrote:

Wolf_in_Human_Shape wrote:Can Daemon Princes take close combat weapons, or only Artefacts/Gifts of Khorne or whatever?

Can we get point costs for all the artefacts, please?

The points are a few pages back, for the weapons and the power armor at least. The fear one probably isn't worth it anyway.

I'm only seeing the point costs for the armor, and somewhere else someone mentioned 60 points for the bloodthirster axe. That is only 2 out of 6.

Please provide a link if I've missed something.

Mozzamanx wrote:


3 weapons: 30, 35 and 60 points for each.
1 Relic per character. Very explicit here.

so 30 for the axe that grows with kills, 35 for the sword and 60 for the BT axe, 50 pts on the amour

Can the auxiliary formations be taken without using a Blood Host/ slaughtercult?

Mmmm actually, did the warptalons got the possessed threatment? +4pts, since they are daemons as well as CSM.

 Lord Yayula wrote:

Wolf_in_Human_Shape wrote:

 Lord Yayula wrote:

Wolf_in_Human_Shape wrote:Can Daemon Princes take close combat weapons, or only Artefacts/Gifts of Khorne or whatever?

Can we get point costs for all the artefacts, please?

The points are a few pages back, for the weapons and the power armor at least. The fear one probably isn't worth it anyway.

I'm only seeing the point costs for the armor, and somewhere else someone mentioned 60 points for the bloodthirster axe. That is only 2 out of 6.

Please provide a link if I've missed something.

Mozzamanx wrote:


3 weapons: 30, 35 and 60 points for each.
1 Relic per character. Very explicit here.

so 30 for the axe that grows with kills, 35 for the sword and 60 for the BT axe, 50 pts on the amour

D'oh! Thank you.

The 30 pt axe is the clear winner, here. I guess against weakling xenos the sword could be good, too.

One of the Artifacts is Goredrinker, which has a weird and badly written rule. At the beginning of your turn the rule kicks in and has permanent and cumulative affects to the character, including +1S and DOUBLING your strength.

RAW, the bearer's strength can be doubled every turn, without limits.

Except for that max 10 thing.

 JimOnMars wrote:
One of the Artifacts is Goredrinker, which has a weird and badly written rule. At the beginning of your turn the rule kicks in and has permanent and cumulative affects to the character, including +1S and DOUBLING your strength.

RAW, the bearer's strength can be doubled every turn, without limits.

Gosh that would mean anything whatsoever if it didn't set the total to 10 the first time.

 pretre wrote:
Except for that max 10 thing.

Yes, unless Codex > BRB...

Not that I think anyone rules it that way.

Linked image, originally from FAEIT (mod please delete if against TOS):

http://imgur.com/84cnhDX,Fod42q3,JFvKWtt,Cu41vO6,gv6n6iQ,8u84u9r,eEiK1xa#0

The codex doesn't give you a specific exception to ignore max 10.

 Wolf_in_Human_Shape wrote:



D'oh! Thank you.

The 30 pt axe is the clear winner, here. I guess against weakling xenos the sword could be good, too.

Yeah, the best of the artifact weapons, still I'm not sure if it is really a good choice. I mean, being unwieldy at 30 pts, means yoo are paying 5 points more than a power fist, for striking at the same Init, but one more attack at S5.

In the charge the juggy would get, 6 PF attacks or 7 Power Axe Attacks, against MEQ you get to do 3.33 wounds with a PF and 2.33 with the axe, assuming no invuls are on whatever you are charging you now have S6 hopefully rampage on your axe, for 5 more points than a PF. Which at S8 alrdy instant death marine characters.

On the next round you'll have rampage of sure, since now the axe does 3.11 wounds to MEQ, compared to 3.33 from the PF. The tally should be at 6 at this point where the S is doubled and therefore S10, now you are doing 3.88 wounds instead of 3.33 from the PF and it is a better weapon, it however costs 5 points more and needs at least 2 rounds of CC with non-invul.

I guess it's an OK artifact but still pretty close to a power fist, against heavy T5+ armies the PF will become a better option everytime since it'll take longer to achieve the tally.

I'm thinking of a Daemon Prince equipped with it. Shouldn't take too long to rack up those points.

I am mostly not impressed with this release. Mostly...
I have wanted to run some Khorne daemons alongside my chaos marine warband for a while, but there didn't seem to be a good way to do it.This book fixes that pretty nicely. My Juggerlord can finally charge into battle with a group of blood crushers
Getting to ignore daemonic instability isn't bad either. I'm going to ignore the formations and just run two CADs, I think. Won't be getting many blood points, but I don't think you will ever generate very many anyways.
Also looking forward to a daemon prince that will hopefully not get gacked to quickly.

 Wolf_in_Human_Shape wrote:
I'm thinking of a Daemon Prince equipped with it. Shouldn't take too long to rack up those points.

Yah, the DP would be great with it, BUT, if the only 1 relic is true as it has been said already, I think the 3+SV, Eternal Warrior, FnP armor for 50 is a lot better for a DP than the axe. Several times have my DPs get killed by a walker, or a force weapon. The armor being 50 pts is expensive for a marine but for a DP who needs to pay 30 pts for his normal power armor, paying only 20 more for EW & FnP is a no-brainer.

If they can take both that would be sweet

Just take a list with 2 princes, then.

 Wolf_in_Human_Shape wrote:
Just take a list with 2 princes, then.

One should have diamonds in his pockets.
One should want to buy you rockets.

Niiice

What do the different types of bloodthirsters do differently than the old one?

gummyofallbears wrote:
What do the different types of bloodthirsters do differently than the old one?

Check the first post of this thread:
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/640191.page

One is a str D vehicle killer, has rage but is Int 1 so little use vs knights... . The other has... an extra attack, adamantium will hatred characters, a heavy flamer and a decent shooting attack which is handy vs FMCs (but still too weak to threaten flyers).

..The third is exactly the same as the current BT.

The daemonkin versions get fearless instead of instability but lose access to gifts.

I saw on another site that Bloodcrushers can be taken as equipment, which is actually pretty awesome. Might go a long way towards making them viable. So in that vein, who can actually take a bloodcrusher?

Also, here's an interesting one, possibly for YMDC, but can an IC who has "Blood for the Blood God" give that rule to the unit he joins? Because if so, I have some serious allying to do.

What do you mean Bloodcrushers can be taken as equipment that doesn't make sense. Bloodcrushers I'm pretty sure are just Bloodletters on Juggernauts of Khorne.

I assume you mean mountign chaos lords and heralds on juggernoughts? which you could do anyway.

Unless someone messed up and allowed a DP to ride a jugger haha

Yah, it refers to juggernauts as still a wargear option. And will probably still have the CSM restriction forbidding DPs from purchasing them.

 Lord Yayula wrote:
Yah, it refers to juggernauts as still a wargear option. And will probably still have the CSM restriction forbidding DPs from purchasing them.

You have to buy two: one for each foot.

 pretre wrote:

 Lord Yayula wrote:
Yah, it refers to juggernauts as still a wargear option. And will probably still have the CSM restriction forbidding DPs from purchasing them.

You have to buy two: one for each foot.

If each one gave him +1T, +1A and +1W + 12" movement I definitely would

 ClassicCarraway wrote:
So if I'm reading Blood Tithe right, if a unit with a character (such as a sgt) is wiped out, that gives 2 tithe points? A unit was wiped out and a character was wiped out. That could get insane with min sized cultist squads.

Take the slaughter cult to generate a point each turn, then take a CAD with nothing but min-sized cultist units with squad leader. Run the cultists spread out and straight at your opponent. Your opponent can kill them, generating a boat load of Blood Tithe points, or ignore them, which allows them to secure objectives (because they are from the CAD), tie up units in assault, and provide cover saves to the mortal units behind them. Win-Win!

A squad sergeant is a character yes, but he's not an extra unit so you would only get 1 Blood Tithe point if a cultist unit was wiped out. Unless said sergeant was also in a challenge at the time - you would get 1 tithe point for being killed in a challenge, and then another tithe point for the unit being wiped out.

If you happened to have any Independent Characters (which I believe would count as a separate unit just like they do for Kill Points or First Blood etc), then you could potentially pick up 3 Tithe points for the loss of a unit - 1 for a character dying in a challenge, 1 for the Independent Character dying and 1 for the unit itself dying.

How's this look:

Chaos Lord w/ Jugger , 2 Powerfist, Blood Talisman thingie, Sigil

8 Attacks on the Charge. 3 + , Eternal Warrior , FNP , 4 W , T5 ST9 On the charge if he get's the Furious Charge boost from Blood Tithe.

 Lord Yayula wrote:
Yah, it refers to juggernauts as still a wargear option. And will probably still have the CSM restriction forbidding DPs from purchasing them.

Yes, only Chaos Lords (who do not have a bike, jumpack or terminator armour) and Heralds can take Juggernauts. Before anyone asks, Heralds cannot take bikes or jumpacks

I think the Jugger Lord is the best bargain, although he's horrendously expensive. Maybe go with 1 Powerfist?

Can he just straight up by a Axe of Khorne?

Hollismason wrote:
I think the Jugger Lord is the best bargain, although he's horrendously expensive. Maybe go with 1 Powerfist?

Can he just straight up by a Axe of Khorne?

Yes, Axe's of Khorne are in the Melee Wargear list for 30pts

Then

Chaos Lord w/ Axe of Khorne, Power Fist , Sigil , Armour , Juggernaut

I got 215 , books are not near me.

3 + 2 + 1 , 6 Attacks on the charge, 7 if he's with the Bloodcrushers ( this is a maybe) that get the +1.

Hollismason wrote:
Then

Chaos Lord w/ Axe of Khorne, Power Fist , Sigil , Armour , Juggernaut

I got 215 , books are not near me.

3 + 2 + 1 , 6 Attacks on the charge, 7 if he's with the Bloodcrushers ( this is a maybe) that get the +1.

That is a really really expensive lord and an expensive and terrible unit to run him with, it however would look awesome with his juggy buddies

Keep it cheap and optimal.

A PF and the axe of khorne is way too much, go with PF+LC is a lot cheaper and you still get the +1 attack, but even then I wouldn't get it. +15 pts for an extra attack isn't worth it.

Go with juggy, sigil, Power Axe OR PF OR Artifact boosting axe, melta bombs. Thats a 155 juggy lord with 6 attacks S5 on the charge or 5 Attacks S8 if going with the PF at 165 pts.

And instead of blood crushers, flesh hounds, they are cheaper and more durable when comparing point vs point with the spawns/blood crushers

Does he still get the attacks if he has a Powerfist and Power Axe? BTW that's Smash whatever Khorne style.

Chaos Lord, Powerfist , Lighting Claw, Sigil, Blood Armour Juggernaut.

8 Attacks if you pick the level 4 Blood Tithe.

My idea was to stick him with Flesh Hounds but they wouldn't be able to scout I don't think.

Chaos Super Khorne Lord , Powerfist , Lighting Claw, Sigil Blood Armour Juggernaught
5 Posssessed
8 Blood Letters w/ Instrument , and Icon
8 Blood Letters w/ Instrument and Icon
Some Chaos Bikes
Some Khorne Flesh Hounds
2 Soul Grinders
2 Mauler Fiends

Done.

 GoonBandito wrote:

 ClassicCarraway wrote:
So if I'm reading Blood Tithe right, if a unit with a character (such as a sgt) is wiped out, that gives 2 tithe points? A unit was wiped out and a character was wiped out. That could get insane with min sized cultist squads.

Take the slaughter cult to generate a point each turn, then take a CAD with nothing but min-sized cultist units with squad leader. Run the cultists spread out and straight at your opponent. Your opponent can kill them, generating a boat load of Blood Tithe points, or ignore them, which allows them to secure objectives (because they are from the CAD), tie up units in assault, and provide cover saves to the mortal units behind them. Win-Win!

A squad sergeant is a character yes, but he's not an extra unit so you would only get 1 Blood Tithe point if a cultist unit was wiped out. Unless said sergeant was also in a challenge at the time - you would get 1 tithe point for being killed in a challenge, and then another tithe point for the unit being wiped out.

Where does it say that a character only counts as generating a Blood Tithe point if he's killed in a challenge?

It doesn't because of the way the sentence is worded.
Characters get a point when slain. They also get one for killing a dude in a challenge.

 Ignatius wrote:

 GoonBandito wrote:

 ClassicCarraway wrote:
So if I'm reading Blood Tithe right, if a unit with a character (such as a sgt) is wiped out, that gives 2 tithe points? A unit was wiped out and a character was wiped out. That could get insane with min sized cultist squads.

Take the slaughter cult to generate a point each turn, then take a CAD with nothing but min-sized cultist units with squad leader. Run the cultists spread out and straight at your opponent. Your opponent can kill them, generating a boat load of Blood Tithe points, or ignore them, which allows them to secure objectives (because they are from the CAD), tie up units in assault, and provide cover saves to the mortal units behind them. Win-Win!

A squad sergeant is a character yes, but he's not an extra unit so you would only get 1 Blood Tithe point if a cultist unit was wiped out. Unless said sergeant was also in a challenge at the time - you would get 1 tithe point for being killed in a challenge, and then another tithe point for the unit being wiped out.

Where does it say that a character only counts as generating a Blood Tithe point if he's killed in a challenge?

Yeah, there's a comma on the sentence which makes it look like if the character dies regardless of being in challenge he gets the point.

A Blood Tithe point is generated when:

"A character with the Blood for the Blood God! special rule is slain, or slays an enemy character in a challenge."

 pretre wrote:
It doesn't because of the way the sentence is worded.
Characters get a point when slain. They also get one for killing a dude in a challenge.

Right. I generally like to debate with the Socratic Method- hence the question.

 Ignatius wrote:

 GoonBandito wrote:

 ClassicCarraway wrote:
So if I'm reading Blood Tithe right, if a unit with a character (such as a sgt) is wiped out, that gives 2 tithe points? A unit was wiped out and a character was wiped out. That could get insane with min sized cultist squads.

Take the slaughter cult to generate a point each turn, then take a CAD with nothing but min-sized cultist units with squad leader. Run the cultists spread out and straight at your opponent. Your opponent can kill them, generating a boat load of Blood Tithe points, or ignore them, which allows them to secure objectives (because they are from the CAD), tie up units in assault, and provide cover saves to the mortal units behind them. Win-Win!

A squad sergeant is a character yes, but he's not an extra unit so you would only get 1 Blood Tithe point if a cultist unit was wiped out. Unless said sergeant was also in a challenge at the time - you would get 1 tithe point for being killed in a challenge, and then another tithe point for the unit being wiped out.

Where does it say that a character only counts as generating a Blood Tithe point if he's killed in a challenge?

That was the way I read it. The part of the Blood Tithe rule that talks about generating points has two separate 'dot points' if you will. One says that units who kill an enemy unit, or are killed, generate a point. The other one says that characters who kill a character in a challenge, or are killed in a challenge, generate a point.

I'm at work, so don't have the codex on hand, but that's how I remembered it. I'll take a look at the exact wording when I get home.

Misread that but yeah if one of your characters is dead then you get a blood point.

Buy units of Cultists x 4

Put the Character up front Remove him from the squad first. Gain a Blood Point

Fail Leadership check, choose to instead remove the unit from the board.

Gain Blood Point

2nd Turn Use BLood Points to Summon Daemon Prince on the Last Squad or a BLood Thirster.

Fail Leadership check, choose to instead remove the unit from the board.

What? This is a thing you can do?

Yeah they have that as a special rule apparently.

Also, I have seen the artefacts page and it says one per army.

Do the army listings say " They can only have one" artefact?

Cause if not wooooohoooooooooooooooo

 McGibs wrote:

Fail Leadership check, choose to instead remove the unit from the board.

What? This is a thing you can do?

Cultists from the Slaughtercult Formation get this rule - if they fail a morale test, you can choose to just straight up remove any remaining models from the board. Which will mean you get a Blood Tithe point.

You get 2 as well if you elect to take the Character off first which is kind of funny. 60 points for two blood points.

Wait...the rules in the codex say that we use blood points at the beginning of our turn. So say we summon a bloodthirster. The rulebook states that we -must- declare what mode they will be in during movement.


So the BT summoned at the start starts as swooping, then declare gliding during movement...bloodthirsters only have to pay the same penalty as any unit that deep strikes (no assault for 1 turn)...the rulebook makes no mention that if they come in before move ment as swooping we cannot change.

Angrygrot wrote:
Wait...the rules in the codex say that we use blood points at the beginning of our turn. So say we summon a bloodthirster. The rulebook states that we -must- declare what mode they will be in during movement.


So the BT summoned at the start starts as swooping, then declare gliding during movement...bloodthirsters only have to pay the same penalty as any unit that deep strikes (no assault for 1 turn)...the rulebook makes no mention that if they come in before move ment as swooping we cannot change.

You pick flight modes at the start of the models movement. But if you arrive from deep strike then that is your movement. So you don't get a chance to switch modes after you deep striked in because you don't move that turn.

Ohhh I was reading it as the movement step of your turn. Dangit why the heck would they give us something that will never be used? At best we can summon a BT by turn 3...and thats really pushing it. By the time he can do anything I'm shaking my opponents hand.

GW must have REALLY not wanted to sell those new BT sculpts. I didn't realize they hated money so much. Maybe I had them pegged wrong after all.

I know about the comma but it seems very strange that a character will generate a Blood Point just when dying so challenges aren't needed for that... Don't quite believe it.

In a 2000+ points army would two Blood Host detachments be viable? I mean to generate 2 Blood Points a turn... That's 300 points spend on Possessed Marines.

Chaospling wrote:
I know about the comma but it seems very strange that a character will generate a Blood Point just when dying so challenges aren't needed for that... Don't quite believe it.

But this is fluffy

Chaospling wrote:
I know about the comma but it seems very strange that a character will generate a Blood Point just when dying so challenges aren't needed for that... Don't quite believe it.

Nah, that is how it is written. I misread it it initially. The intent may or may not have been to only apply it to challenges, but it is quite literally written so that any character with the Blood for the Blood God! rule that is slain generates a Blood Tithe point.

Actually, the other thing I just noticed - there's no restriction to 'friendly units only' generating Blood Tithe. If two Demonkin armies were fighting each other, the Blood for the Blood God! rule is worded such that both players would be earning Blood Tithe for any unit that kills or is killed. By that I mean if Player A's CSM squad killed Player B's Cultist squad, both players would generate 3 Tithe each - 1 for a unit destroying an enemy unit, 1 for a character being slain, and 1 for a unit being completely destroyed. Khorne will be pleased

Hahaha that kind of makes sense.

We should also think about the possibilities of using the seven formations in any mix outside the Blood Host. As the restriction of maximum one Lord of Slaughter formation per Slaughter Cult only applies to the Blood Host detachment, we can have a Battle Forged army with any number of Blood Thirsters and War Engines - though the obvious advantages from the Blood Host or Slaughter Cult are lost.

Are we sure about this? I'm all over no force org maulers ,but got the impression they were for blood host only.

I got it from: "If you are using the Battle-forged method, you will instead need to organise the models in your collection into Detachments. This is a fun process in its own right. The most common of these are the Combined Arms and Allied Detachments. Note that you can also include any of the Formations presented in this section as part of a Battle-forged army."

Though it goes on and explains about the Blood Host detachment but I don't get the impression, that the formations are restricted only to that detachment, just that if you combine the formations in a certain mix, then you got yourself a Blood Host detachment and can enjoy certain benefits.

Edit: Grammar.

Thanks GoonBandito for taking the time to answer all these questions.

I have another question - are Icons (both the CSM kind and Daemon kind) any different?

I mainly want to know if the Daemon icons still only work to reduce the scatter of Daemons of Khorne

There's no Icons of Chaos for Daemons, only the upgraded Icon of Chaos which is the Banner of Blood which is the same as before.

No icons? Well that's a bit naff!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Especially as all my guys are modelled with icons...

Chaospling wrote:
There's no Icons of Chaos for Daemons, only the upgraded Icon of Chaos which is the Banner of Blood which is the same as before.

So they removed the deep strike assistance that the Banner of Blood previously gave? That's disappointing :(

Chaospling wrote:
We should also think about the possibilities of using the seven formations in any mix outside the Blood Host. As the restriction of maximum one Lord of Slaughter formation per Slaughter Cult only applies to the Blood Host detachment, we can have a Battle Forged army with any number of Blood Thirsters and War Engines - though the obvious advantages from the Blood Host or Slaughter Cult are lost.

The "War Engine" Auxiliary and the "Lord of Slaughter" Command choices for the Blood Host Detachment aren't actually Formations though - you can only take them as part of the Blood Host.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Captyn_Bob wrote:No icons? Well that's a bit naff!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Especially as all my guys are modelled with icons...

Cheexsta wrote:

Chaospling wrote:
There's no Icons of Chaos for Daemons, only the upgraded Icon of Chaos which is the Banner of Blood which is the same as before.

So they removed the deep strike assistance that the Banner of Blood previously gave? That's disappointing :(

The Banner of Blood is an upgraded Icon. It gives you the effects of a normal Chaos Icon (+1 to combat resolution, scaterless deep strike), plus the "once per game, this unit can charge 6+d6 inches" effect. Unfortunately you are forced to buy the Banner of Blood for 20pts on Demon units - you can't pay 10pts for just the Icon.

Ok not too bad. No infinite maulerfiends ...was a brief dream...

 GoonBandito wrote:

Cheexsta wrote:

Chaospling wrote:
There's no Icons of Chaos for Daemons, only the upgraded Icon of Chaos which is the Banner of Blood which is the same as before.

So they removed the deep strike assistance that the Banner of Blood previously gave? That's disappointing :(

The Banner of Blood is an upgraded Icon. It gives you the effects of a normal Chaos Icon (+1 to combat resolution, scaterless deep strike), plus the "once per game, this unit can charge 6+d6 inches" effect. Unfortunately you are forced to buy the Banner of Blood for 20pts on Demon units - you can't pay 10pts for just the Icon.

Thanks for the clarification. One last thing, though - does the scatterless deep strike apply to any friendly deep striking unit, or just to Daemons of Khorne?

I guess what I'm asking is whether the Banner of Blood can be used to bring in Terminators without scatter.

@GoonBandito: Makes sense - thanks for clarifying this.

Still, I could see the Gore Pack easily being used with other codices and if they earn some Blood Points on their own, it's just good.

Warp Talons has become slightly more expensive because of the Mark and Daemon of Khorne, but this mean that they possibly can Deep Strike in without scatter and hopefully hit several units with the Blind attack and that both their Hammer of Wrath and normal attacks the turn they charge are at Strength 5 - will this change anything for you?

The ability to hit them the legacy of Armageddon is nice too... Still not sold.

 Cheexsta wrote:

 GoonBandito wrote:

Cheexsta wrote:

Chaospling wrote:
There's no Icons of Chaos for Daemons, only the upgraded Icon of Chaos which is the Banner of Blood which is the same as before.

So they removed the deep strike assistance that the Banner of Blood previously gave? That's disappointing :(

The Banner of Blood is an upgraded Icon. It gives you the effects of a normal Chaos Icon (+1 to combat resolution, scaterless deep strike), plus the "once per game, this unit can charge 6+d6 inches" effect. Unfortunately you are forced to buy the Banner of Blood for 20pts on Demon units - you can't pay 10pts for just the Icon.

Thanks for the clarification. One last thing, though - does the scatterless deep strike apply to any friendly deep striking unit, or just to Daemons of Khorne?

I guess what I'm asking is whether the Banner of Blood can be used to bring in Terminators without scatter.

Only affects units comprised entirely of models with the Demon rule, just like the Codex: Chaos Demon ones. Terminators are out of luck unfortunately. Though Chaospling is right in that you could at least precision deep strike Warp Talons in off a Banner of Blood and hope their Blind attack thing keeps them alive from the enemy unit they are next to.

Even though I'm sad with some rules (scatter within 6" of a CSM banner, possessed tax for blood host) the book seems really funny.

I'm going to try this first list sunday (2000 pts) :

Slaughtercult
- Blood Throne (Hatred Loci, Sword that gives +1 Blood Tithe) 190
- 8 Bloodletters (Banner) 100
- 8 Bloodletters (Banner) 100
- 5 Possessed 150
- 8 cultists 58
- 8 cultists 58

Gorepack
- 8 Bikers (2 melta, Icon of Wrath, Axe of Khorne, Meltabomb) 261
- 8 Bikers (2 melta, Icon of Wrath, Axe of Khorne, Meltabomb) 261
- 8 Flesh Hounds
- 8 Flesh Hounds

War Engine
- Maulerfiend 130
- Maulerfiend 130

HQ
- Wrath of Khorne

The goal is to keep the Blood Throne in the middle of the Gorepack to give Hatred. Cultists are doomed to die of course, Bloodletters with Banner so reinforcement do not scatter. Wrath of Khorne so it can fly and still be usefull with its Blood Flail and template weapon until it can land when everything is close combat.

Strange... The Destroyer Vehicle Equipment is not in the book either.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
@ondskapt: The Cultists are 58 points each - don't know if this was calculated correctly into your overall result...

@Chaospling
Yep, I forgot to add the Champion ... Well, I removed the Instrument that were useless anyway. Thanks !

@ondskapt: You might also want to include Blood Reapers in your Bloodletter squads - that's 5 points for a Blood Point when he's killed and the possibility to kill more characters in challenges.

What does the army list entry say verbatim for Chaos Lord and selecting Relics? or Gifts of Khorne?

The entry I saw for the page with the Relics just says one per army.

Is the restriction in the Army Listing?

Its like with Black legion or CSM, you exchange one of your weapons for one of the artifacts, it doesn't say that you can't have more then one artifact on a character though, also there is a distinction of what i've saw between the weapons artifacts and the non-weapons ones.

So basically if i've got this, its 2 Weapons in exchange for the ccw and pistol and one non weapon artifact like the helm, the rune or the armor.

So a DPrinces can have a Weapon and an armor.

 Slayer le boucher wrote:


So a DPrinces can have a Weapon and an armor.

That'll be sweet, EW FnP FMC DP, hope he makes it into combat

If that's true that you can take multiple artefacts, then that makes Juggerlord super awesome.

6 generates another attack with 7 attacks on the charge. Hell yes.

Ah guys

"...A model may take one of the following:

*The three non-weapon artefacts are listed.

A model may instead replace a weapon with one of the following:

*The three weapon artefacts are listed."

What idiot thought that an icon of wrath on possessed was worth20 points. It does almost nothing


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I know the internet always argues this but it's really clear to me that you can only take one artefact per model.

Chaospling wrote:
Ah guys

"...A model may take one of the following:

*The three non-weapon artefacts are listed.

A model may instead replace a weapon with one of the following:

*The three weapon artefacts are listed."

This is good, this is very good.

Chaos Lord on Jugger Naught , w/ Sigil , Sword that gets better, Helm of Hit on 6s get another attack.

3 Blood Points to get FNP and RAGE.

Yes, yes I do like.

Now you gotta figure out how to get him Hatred and he's good to go.

What do you think of just taking a chaos lord on a jetpack, take the "axe of bloodthirster summon" and just bumrush the enemy?

Even a watered down thirster that you get is good when it costed you half the usual (via suicidal HQ), and he will either do some damage, or get himself killed, at the very least you get a blood point off him, and either distract a unit's shooting or actually hitting something before the thirster spawns.
Minimum 1 blood point off the deal too. more if he actually manages to kill anything (or get into a challenge)

Hollismason wrote:

Chaospling wrote:
Ah guys

"...A model may take one of the following:

*The three non-weapon artefacts are listed.

A model may instead replace a weapon with one of the following:

*The three weapon artefacts are listed."

This is good, this is very good.

Chaos Lord on Jugger Naught , w/ Sigil , Sword that gets better, Helm of Hit on 6s get another attack.

3 Blood Points to get FNP and RAGE.

Yes, yes I do like.

Now you gotta figure out how to get him Hatred and he's good to go.

He means you CAN'T take 2 relics, you have the option to get one of the non-weapon items IF you don't then you are allowed to replace a weapon


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 BoomWolf wrote:
What do you think of just taking a chaos lord on a jetpack, take the "axe of bloodthirster summon" and just bumrush the enemy?

Even a watered down thirster that you get is good when it costed you half the usual (via suicidal HQ), and he will either do some damage, or get himself killed, at the very least you get a blood point off him, and either distract a unit's shooting or actually hitting something before the thirster spawns.
Minimum 1 blood point off the deal too. more if he actually manages to kill anything (or get into a challenge)

The BT axe is actually pretty bad. If you are intentionally trying to get him killed, being on his own with a jetpack, he'll proably die on turn 2 due to range and cover, IIRC in 40k is your opponent asks you the wargear you need to tell him what it is equipped with. So assuming he does shoots at him and he dies at Turn 2, It'll deep strike in flight mode Turn 2, switch to ground Turn 3, Get a charge on Turn 4, assumming you moved 12" when he was a lord, 6" fwd due to the summon, changing flight modes to jump pack would be another 12", so you are 30" away from your deployment zone in turn 4.

You got Turn 4 & 5 (assuming he live through the shots and his own D3 wounds) to fight in CC for sure. I rather have a good HQ for the whole game and look for the BT as a blood tithe reward instead

That Blood thirster Axe is garbage. Enjoy summoning it then it rolling 3 wounds, then dying to fire.

Oh I am so upset. You can't take frickin Fleshhounds in a slaughtercult. which means to get them in a blood host you either need 4 troop 2 HQ, or 2 units of bikes, which I don;t have.

Pretty close to giving up on the blood host altogether.

Captyn_Bob wrote:
Oh I am so upset. You can't take frickin Fleshhounds in a slaughtercult. which means to get them in a blood host you either need 4 troop 2 HQ, or 2 units of bikes, which I don;t have.

Pretty close to giving up on the blood host altogether.

At least the bikes are good units, I want to field raptors so I either pay for the worst unit in the CSM and probably Daemonkin codex (warptalons) or take a CAD

Yeah the bike formation is probably the best one, If I had any.

 Lord Yayula wrote:

Captyn_Bob wrote:
Oh I am so upset. You can't take frickin Fleshhounds in a slaughtercult. which means to get them in a blood host you either need 4 troop 2 HQ, or 2 units of bikes, which I don;t have.

Pretty close to giving up on the blood host altogether.

At least the bikes are good units, I want to field raptors so I either pay for the worst unit in the CSM and probably Daemonkin codex (warptalons) or take a CAD

That's a pretty massive exaggeration. The only problem Warp Talons have ever had is that there's better options in the same slot for AP3 purposes... And "Not a Heldrake" isn't a huge issue.

Plus now they have both furious charge and rage to go with their AP3 rending on a jump infantry platform. And can potentially use precision deep strikes if you want to try out their gimmicky blinding trick on some low initiative foes such as Necrons.

changemod wrote:

 Lord Yayula wrote:

Captyn_Bob wrote:
Oh I am so upset. You can't take frickin Fleshhounds in a slaughtercult. which means to get them in a blood host you either need 4 troop 2 HQ, or 2 units of bikes, which I don;t have.

Pretty close to giving up on the blood host altogether.

At least the bikes are good units, I want to field raptors so I either pay for the worst unit in the CSM and probably Daemonkin codex (warptalons) or take a CAD

That's a pretty massive exaggeration. The only problem Warp Talons have ever had is that there's better options in the same slot for AP3 purposes... And "Not a Heldrake" isn't a huge issue.

Plus now they have both furious charge and rage to go with their AP3 rending on a jump infantry platform. And can potentially use precision deep strikes if you want to try out their gimmicky blinding trick on some low initiative foes such as Necrons.

They don't have rending iirc, that would make them less terrible since then they could at least try to deal with some of the heavy armored units.

Warp Talons and Mutilators are probably the bottom units of the CSM. In this iteration they are even more expensive as they NEED to pay the MoK and DoK tax. So it is 35 pts a piece.

35 pts for a MEQ profile with ld 8 and 5++, a Khornate termie costs 34 pts, has higher leadership, as much attacks, can deep strike as well and get a 2+ sv over it. On assault power they are the same, the termies with their sv2+ can even take axes for the same points and be a better assault unit. The leadership here is important because Warptalons aren't fearless, they'll run/get swept with the ld 8(9) if lose combat or take heavy casualties.

The warpflame attack is a double edged sword, sure it can help against some gunlines, but you need to risk on a full scatter dice to affect them by the special rule. And also means that your assault unit will be assaulting in turn 3 IF they get a good deepstrike roll

Oh, and just like the terminators they lack assault grenades, I fail to see how saying they are the worst unit in both codexes a massive exaggeration, maybe they have one contestant for the title but they are definitely fighting as the worst unit
The charnel cohort might help you with this since it makes deepstrike scatterless and re-roll reserves. Sadly Slaughtercult-Charnel Cohort-Raptors+Talons formation goes beyond 2000 pts. You could go with Cohort-Raptos and the Raptors+Talons only formations, maybe a CAD

Possessed are actually with this supplement not horrific.

4 Attacks a piece on the charge, Rage and Furios Charge which is half way decent.

20 ST6 attacks on the charge isn't that bad.

Unfortunately they gain no real benefit from the Blood Tithe other than FNP and +1 attack, maybe Adamantium will.

3+ 5++ 5+ FNP is not terrible 30 points is horribly expensive but not to much.

With a random bonus too.

You kinda have to have a land raider tho, to give them any chance of surviving to assault.

A herald of khorne with locus of wrath and a bloodaxe goes pretty well with them. (although, quite a lot of points.. )

This is a competitive army when you look at what you actually get, getting the FNP across the army is key to success though. By turn two using the formation you should get it.

Blood Crushers - Formation allows +1 Attack base for a 3 man unit this puts it 4 A base, Rage +2 , 3 Man unit get's 20 Attacks on the charge 5+ 5+ w/ 9 wounds.

Fleshhounds - Are better , get Rage, 4 Attacks on the charge, 5 man unit 20 attacks, 10 man 40.

Here's the key though :

Soul Grinder - Get RAGE +2 Attacks base 6 Attacks on the charge possible

I feel the army will really shine with light allied help. Belakor straight up adds survivability and can be battlebro in with him plus a cultist unit. Invis and shrouding make this army a pretty tough out.

The army is perfectly servicable on it's own really. It's got anti-air with Soul Grinders. Despite what people want think, Heldrakes are excellent.

Being able to mix 2 Mauler Fiends and 2 Soul Grinders in a list with up to 4 Units of Flesh Hounds, Biker Squads w/ better HOW and up to 5 Attacks ST5 on the charge.

Deep striking 8 man units.

It's a strong list, even the possessed while overcosted, gotta get those +2 A and Furious gives them ST6 on the charge.

It's looking like the best way to set up will be to not cram everything into a Blood Host. Only the Slaughtercult gets the second benefit from blood tithe, and you only need to be Battleforged to get the extra blood tithe benefit, so it seems more appealing to just pick up a CAD and get Heldrakes and such without having to jump through the hoops of adding subpar jump infantry.

Captyn_Bob wrote:
With a random bonus too.

You kinda have to have a land raider tho, to give them any chance of surviving to assault.

A herald of khorne with locus of wrath and a bloodaxe goes pretty well with them. (although, quite a lot of points.. )

Herald of Khorne can't take the Axe of Khorne, if that's what you mean by bloodaxe.

..yesssheeecannnn


Automatically Appended Next Post:
That is so stupid. I'm fed up with this book and its stupid stupid restrictions already.

Yeah, the inexplicable fact that no khorne daemon units can take bloodaxes was just another eyeroll added on top of my already spinning eyeballs.
Like, theres just so many weird little removals and restrictions that make no sense, and no weird little additions to make up for them.

Like, skulltaker can't take a juggernaut anymore? Why? Not that anyone took skulltaker, but it's just really odd!

..No dirge casters,... what.

Captyn_Bob wrote:
..No dirge casters,... what.

This was the biggest question mark for me. I guess fluffwise they're slanneshi, but they are -such- a good addon. I think an ally is going to be needed. Max out the gorepack and go from there.

Allied Crimson slaughter, with a 2+ save jugger lord, and a land raider with dirge casters and the legacy of the 1st war of armageddon. Seems good to me.

Captyn_Bob wrote:
Allied Crimson slaughter, with a 2+ save jugger lord, and a land raider with dirge casters and the legacy of the 1st war of armageddon. Seems good to me.

Either that, or stock CSM for AoBF Juggerlord. Also, having that ally would get you a heldrake without having to pay for raptors/talons.

 Robisagg wrote:

Captyn_Bob wrote:
Allied Crimson slaughter, with a 2+ save jugger lord, and a land raider with dirge casters and the legacy of the 1st war of armageddon. Seems good to me.

Either that, or stock CSM for AoBF Juggerlord. Also, having that ally would get you a heldrake without having to pay for raptors/talons.

Yeah, that Juggerlord is too good to leave out, at least for me. One unit of Cultists as a tax is fine, whatever. Scout him up with some Flesh Hounds and he'll be cutting through whatever you want like butter. Hell, can even do the same thing with our good ol' friendly friend Kharn. Sure the unit will be slower, but if you're 12 inches away, there's a pretty good chance to catch whatever you're going after. Re-rolling charge distance thanks to Fleet on the doggies.

Straight up 2nd place to Chaos Daemons this is the most competitive army Chaos can field.

I'll do a write up later on why but it's pretty insane.

I think Slaughter cult with one or two auxiliary formations and a standard CAD to get around the less desirable formations will be the norm for this book. Multiple min-sized cultist squads will fill out the troops on the CAD.

Come on Hollis I am looking forward to your thoughts!

Personally, I am moving away from the slaughtercult as its too restrictive. The bike/hound pack is very good tho for any chaos army.

My codex is delayed :( . Once I get it I'll do a full write up. I thought it was coming in yesterday.

Am I the only one that's kinda disappointed that the Defiler and the Soul Grinder are in the same book, for you to compare them, and the Defiler still sucks in every way compared to the Soul Grinder?

At least the defiler can take dirge casters... OHNOWAIT

 krodarklorr wrote:
Am I the only one that's kinda disappointed that the Defiler and the Soul Grinder are in the same book, for you to compare them, and the Defiler still sucks in every way compared to the Soul Grinder?

Never been my experience of Defilers. For a BS3 daemon engine, my brother is terrifyingly accurate with its battle cannon.

 angelofvengeance wrote:

 krodarklorr wrote:
Am I the only one that's kinda disappointed that the Defiler and the Soul Grinder are in the same book, for you to compare them, and the Defiler still sucks in every way compared to the Soul Grinder?

Never been my experience of Defilers. For a BS3 daemon engine, my brother is terrifyingly accurate with its battle cannon.

You can take a Soul Grinder with a Battle Cannon for cheaper than a Defiler, and it has better armor.

Defiler can with this codex get 8 attacks on the charge if I remember my rules right.

3 Base
+1 for Extra Powerfist
+1 for Extra Power Scourge
+ 1 For Extra Powerfist

+2 For Rage

8 Attacks.. It's 220 points though :( And any Monstrous creature will kill it prob since it's AV 12 , if it was like 60 points cheaper yeah maybe.

Why does the Defiler have Rage? In fact, why do any of the Daemon Engines have Rage?
They have been given Daemon of Khorne, not Mark of Khorne. It provides Furious Charge (On S10! Woo!) and Hatred: Slaanesh, but no additional attacks of any kind.

You can get Rage/Furious Charge on all Blood for the Blood God units as a Blood Tithe reward.

Captyn_Bob wrote:
At least the defiler can take dirge casters... OHNOWAIT

Why would anything in a codex entirely dedicated to Khorne and his servants be able to take Dirge Casters anyways?

I think the Dirge Casters are a Slaanesh associated thing, from what I understand.

Well the Destroyer vehicle equipment resembles an earlier vehicle equipment associated with Khorne (can't remember if it's the exact same name and rules) but it's not in the codex either.

Chaospling wrote:
Well the Destroyer vehicle equipment resembles an earlier vehicle equipment associated with Khorne (can't remember if it's the exact same name and rules) but it's not in the codex either.

Destroyer Blades aren't in it? That's very odd.

And yes Dirge Casters are Slaaneshi- they are basically big megaphones that make loud noises to disorient enemies.

Just curious, do you get blood points when your rhino dies ? Because if you do, you could pretty much get their points back in Bloodthirster

You do.. but please remember the bloodthirster is not free. He gets summoned from one of your nondaemon characters and if you fail a ld test he dies and you get Nothing.

Also your opponent is far from obliged to kill your rhinos for you..

And spawn are better and cheaper

Thats true, but you can only get 2 of them. Imagine like 6 rhinos full of marines (give them at least one melta/plasma) + 1 tax possessed. You are on what, 1000 pts ?

I dont think, that is something your opponent can ignore and you will very likely pass your ld test on aspiring champ.

It is 12 blood points by it self and it very likely to kill something too. Get juggerlord with spawns + maulerfiend/soulgrinders.. could be fun...

Imagine FNP on all of this and by end of the game adding at least 500pts of daemons

Just brainstorming here

Having played against Daemonkin (still building my own) with a pure Slaanesh daemon army, I learned that A) take forgefiends, skull cannons, and heldrakes, as mass high S, long range or template firepower is a bloodletter or berzerkers best friend, and B) if you plan on summoning a DP or BT with your tithe points, you better protect your mortal characters that don't cost as much as a BT to begin with. My opponent had the points to summon a BT, but I killed off his last mortal character before he got the chance (he started of with 3 of them).

Still waiting on my book, but what I wanna know is the wording on Slaughtercults for getting the free choice on the Blood Tithe chart.

Exactly what does it say and if you have more than 1 Slaughtercult , would you get 2 choices?

IE Spend 4 Blood Points, Gaine +1 Attack, then the 2 Slaughter Cults give you a free choice on the chart.

You get to pick a second choice, worth a lower value (max 4) to apply to every model in the formation. So I guess yeah if you had two slaughtercults you could do it twice, they could even get different bonuses. But not both as it only affects the formation, and you would have to keep track of who was in which one.

Also.. if you had two slaughtercults, you may as well have two blood host detachments, which would mean 2 free bloodpoints a turn.

I wonder how much it would cost to just take 4 and then summon Bloodthirsters and other things every turn.

The minimum cost is like what? 355, Possessed + 2 Units of BLoodletters + Herald

 Ignatius wrote:

Chaospling wrote:
Well the Destroyer vehicle equipment resembles an earlier vehicle equipment associated with Khorne (can't remember if it's the exact same name and rules) but it's not in the codex either.

Destroyer Blades aren't in it? That's very odd.

And yes Dirge Casters are Slaaneshi- they are basically big megaphones that make loud noises to disorient enemies.

No, Dirge caster are Chaos undivided in 4th Ed, they gave Fearless to all models in a 6" radius except for deamons.

The thing you are thinking are Warp Amps who inflicted a -1 LD in a 12" radius, -2 in a 6" radius and a -3 in contact.

Also Khorne Worshippers like Metal, so they need Dirge casters to put up 3 inches of Blood and Debauchery at max volume!

Are the 'auxiliary' blocks (things like Khorne's Bloodstorm) formation datasheets in their own right?

Yes , apart from the ones which are a single model

"Removed as a casualty" != "Slain" i guess?

If not, if you summon a DP or BT you would get a blood tithe point for it? (assuming you interpret the rules so that characters generates points when dying outside of challenges)

I don't know if it had been said before but can a demon char from coded chaos demons join a unit from the demonkin codex?

No, all chaos daemon units have the daemonic instability rule, which prevents them joining a unit without the rule.

Yes that is what i said but the rule states that a unit with this rule cannot be joined by a model unless.... it doesnt say "join"

yeah it does "cannot join (or be joined by) models without this special rule"

Just to be awkward, the extra clarification is only given in the Rules summary, not in the main rules itself.