It's going to be the first 40k purchase I have made in about 5 years! Love them! Not sure if I'll be making an ad mech army. But 1 box = a cool looking necromunda gang or a wh40k kill team.
I love the infantry, the walker, not so much (looks a little goofy). I'll buy one of each box to drool at the sprues, and plan what to do with 'em
@BrianDavion --
I think they will make a fine allied detachment (dem arc weapons...); I'm not sure about a whole army -- we'll have to see what else is coming, but I can't imagine enough models for it to actually work (flyers, transports, LoW, tanky stuff, bikes, etc.). At best, I think it will be Harlequin-esque, where you could force it into being an army, but it will have some glaring gaps.
Great looking models, lots of options both in terms of rules and customization, but without paying an obscene "dual kit" tax; their price is largely in line with other units with their points value. Curious as to what the Doctrina Imperitiva does.
Walker:
Suitably weird Admech design with excellent rules, but a price that is completely obscene; only Ork Gunz cost more per-point. I'd consider the infantry, but not in a million years the walkers. They cost the same as a Leman Russ!
I read Titanicus a few years back and it was the first I knew about Skitarii.
I seem to remember them being described as tracked automatons with a human-esque torso on a tracked leg section....think tracked necron destroyer stylee.
Of course, with GW's release schedule, something like that could be released as an elite unit, but for me, it doesn't fit with what I thought of them.
*I caveat all of that by saying my memory could be wrong on the references in Titanicus, but either way, I am still a little disappointed.
@BrianDavion --
I think they will make a fine allied detachment (dem arc weapons...); I'm not sure about a whole army -- we'll have to see what else is coming, but I can't imagine enough models for it to actually work (flyers, transports, LoW, tanky stuff, bikes, etc.). At best, I think it will be Harlequin-esque, where you could force it into being an army, but it will have some glaring gaps.
I have space Marines and Grey Knights already so if this army benfiits greatly from allies it's not that big a deal to me, Honestly I'm starting to see the IoM as more one giant army with multiple books these days anyway
I've been holding myself since X-mas but no more, I'm getting at least a box of Rangers because they look SO DAMN COOL.
Honestly, since the moment the very first tiny ranger picture was leaked I was interested, now that I've seen them in all their glory, I want them even more. Sexy as feck, I say.
"Sorry, we cannot make plastic Sisters of Battle at this time. Getting the robes to hang correctly and believably on plastic models is proving to be prohibitively difficult."
Not sure how I feel about them right now. They don't really match up with what I had pictured skitarii to look like in my head... I imagined something a bit less humanoid I guess
The guys with the Romanesque helmets look like ass.
The Tech-Priests look cool.
The chicken-walker looks like a mount currently available in Star Wars: The Old Republic, being an open-topped forerunner to the AT-ST, though I have no doubt that Bakshi was an inspiration for the piece.
moogy wrote: I read Titanicus a few years back and it was the first I knew about Skitarii.
I seem to remember them being described as tracked automatons with a human-esque torso on a tracked leg section....think tracked necron destroyer stylee.
Of course, with GW's release schedule, something like that could be released as an elite unit, but for me, it doesn't fit with what I thought of them.
*I caveat all of that by saying my memory could be wrong on the references in Titanicus, but either way, I am still a little disappointed.
There are many various different types of skitary troops, their design varies from planet to planet and depends on function. As I was reading recently "Courage and Honor" planetary governor had two skitary body guards which were basically enchanted human with big ass chain guns.
@BrianDavion --
I think they will make a fine allied detachment (dem arc weapons...); I'm not sure about a whole army -- we'll have to see what else is coming, but I can't imagine enough models for it to actually work (flyers, transports, LoW, tanky stuff, bikes, etc.). At best, I think it will be Harlequin-esque, where you could force it into being an army, but it will have some glaring gaps.
I have space Marines and Grey Knights already so if this army benfiits greatly from allies it's not that big a deal to me, Honestly I'm starting to see the IoM as more one giant army with multiple books these days anyway
Hah! I saw IoM as one big army like... 25 years ago
Ok, maybe not quite, since I played a lot of SM vs IG back then, but really, it's always been just SM and IG (and Squats!!!) for me. Basically, all the enhanced power armor types, and all the folks who look like they came out of Fort Benning. With ogres and halflings of course, because they will be around in 40,000 years for sure.
Loving the new line, pre-ordered two boxes of troops and a walker.
I don't quite care about how competitive they end up being, I've wanted to run an Ad Mech force ever since I first started the hobby.
The troops look properly post-apocalyptic sci-fi and are exactly what I was hoping they would be. The detail and beauty of the models is in such stark contrast to the bulky SM and IG models I've been painting for a decade that I really can't help myself.
The walker isn't what i imagined it would be, but with a bit of conversion work, and a proper gritty paint job it'll look perfect for Ad. Mech. Love the idea of mechanized cavalry.
I can't wait for more kits to be leaked, the fact they are calling this Adeptus Mechnaicu on the box makes me think that this will be a proper big release, lots of units, vehicles etc, and I assume it will sell well enough for them to rush production on fliers and extra units for the following year. Overall my plan is to paint these guys up as well as I am able to and just take my time with the project. For once the slow release may actually see me painting a huge part of an army BEFORE I buy the whole thing.
AdMech have always been wildly inconsistent in appearance. They are a 'mix of monstrous biomechanical forms'.
The only solid leads we have are Sagitarii are four-legged heavy weapon carriers, Praetorians are Ogryn-sized guardian types, and the Titan Legions have far more bestial-looking warriors than the rest of the Skitarii.
These might, just might make me break my 'No more GW purchases ever' rule. All I have to do is write them into 2nd ed somehow and I may buy 1500 or so points worth. Possibly. Maybe....
AegisGrimm wrote: "Sorry, we cannot make plastic Sisters of Battle at this time. Getting the robes to hang correctly and believably on plastic models is proving to be prohibitively difficult."
Every. Single. Thread.
I wish there was a "ignore sisters of battle posts" button. We get it. You are off topic.
AegisGrimm wrote: "Sorry, we cannot make plastic Sisters of Battle at this time. Getting the robes to hang correctly and believably on plastic models is proving to be prohibitively difficult."
Every. Single. Thread.
I wish there was a "ignore sisters of battle posts" button. We get it. You are off topic.
It most certainly is not off-topic. In a Necron tactics thread it would have been, but hardly here. The question is "What do you think of the new Skitarii?". "They could just as well have been Sisters of Battle" is a perfectly valid response.
As for me, I don't care much for those Wars of the Roses helmets, but the Rangers are very nice. It being a dual kit makes it perfect for skirmish games, so I might pick a box up. And I'll be damned if I don't like the walkers, but those are a very unlikely purchase for me. At least for now.
AegisGrimm wrote: "Sorry, we cannot make plastic Sisters of Battle at this time. Getting the robes to hang correctly and believably on plastic models is proving to be prohibitively difficult."
Every. Single. Thread.
I wish there was a "ignore sisters of battle posts" button. We get it. You are off topic.
It most certainly is not off-topic. In a Necron tactics thread it would have been, but hardly here. The question is "What do you think of the new Skitarii?". "They could just as well have been Sisters of Battle" is a perfectly valid response.
As for me, I don't care much for those Wars of the Roses helmets, but the Rangers are very nice. It being a dual kit makes it perfect for skirmish games, so I might pick a box up. And I'll be damned if I don't like the walkers, but those are a very unlikely purchase for me. At least for now.
You really don't think that in a "what do you think of Admech?" "MAKE ME DA SISTAHS" is on topic? Technically with your logic you can make anything offtopic as on topic.
The most interesting thing (and positive, for GW) is that the look of the Skitarii is so markedly different from anything else from GW, and extremely appealing to some folks. The lesson, I guess, is it doesn't hurt to try to please everyone
They look awesome. Soon as I'm on leave I'm gonna grab a couple boxes to kit bash with my Mechanicus Space Marines. Might have to start a Mechanicus army as well but gonna wait until I see the codex to see how they play!
Meh, they don't look like what I'd think of as Skitari. I was thinking more like the pit slaves from Necromnda. These guys just look like steam powered Storm Troopers ( or Bullatinblah Tempestus).
lliu wrote: So, this is what I get instead of a Thread Closure. Wow!
Yeah I was wrong! They had just closed about 4 threads before yours!
I think GW has really hit the nail on the head, it is so refreshing to see so much love, and so many posts about people coming back to GW to buy these guys.
I just cannot wait to see the next waves!!
lliu wrote: So, this is what I get instead of a Thread Closure. Wow!
Yeah I was wrong! They had just closed about 4 threads before yours!
I think GW has really hit the nail on the head, it is so refreshing to see so much love, and so many posts about people coming back to GW to buy these guys.
I just cannot wait to see the next waves!!
he had the fortune of being the first to post here once the news of em passed beyond "rumors"
amnd yeah GW really hit the nail on the head. everyone, even the xenos players, at my local store, said that this looked like it could be the biggest thing to hit 40k since Tau.
Aside from my snarky Sisters/robes post (which shows these models and their pretty good sculpting shoot holes in a major GW defense of that facet)I do think the Skitarri look damn cool, though I think yet more special rules are unneded, and the prices are the usual now- typical GW garbage.
The chicken walkers are going to suffer from "way too goddamn expensive" syndrome like mek guns, everyone wants to take 9+ but the price is so restrictive that they will affect peoples armies. I made a list with 60 skitarii,9 dragoons and 9 ironstriders and it came to over $1440 for a 1750pt army.
These models are very cool indeed, but like others before me have said, they are too expensive for me to even think about as an ally for my Dark Angels. Not being a big fluff reader, this is the first I've really heard of "Skitarii" (I do, of course, know of the Adeptus Mechanicus), but I might want to read more as they are cool looking!
I like the Skitarii troop box. They match the artwork which from an aesthetic stand point I couldn't ask for more. Even if they don't have enough special weapons in the kit, they have enough weapons and bits that without buying too much more I can convert another squad from the left over bits.
The Walkers I really like those. I'm building a small army at first to supplement my Knights and these will really go well with them.
Admech was a long standing gap in the GW miniature line.
They may fit into each AM and SM force.
Not so much into BA, SW, DA or other chapters with specific doctrines.
I'll stay away from them.
The flintlock style weapons they have is pretty cool, with these and other stuff like Scions it seems they're pushing this pseudo Renaissance style which I'm totally okay with.
The prices on those walkers are a bit much for me though, even when working full time it's hard to justify. I might run them as allies one day, but that will be way in the future.
MrScience wrote: The flintlock style weapons they have is pretty cool, with these and other stuff like Scions it seems they're pushing this pseudo Renaissance style which I'm totally okay with.
The prices on those walkers are a bit much for me though, even when working full time it's hard to justify. I might run them as allies one day, but that will be way in the future.
The Ironstriders are mobile autocannon platforms.
Not a bad idea.
But watch out for high strength ordnance shells.
MrScience wrote: The flintlock style weapons they have is pretty cool, with these and other stuff like Scions it seems they're pushing this pseudo Renaissance style which I'm totally okay with.
The prices on those walkers are a bit much for me though, even when working full time it's hard to justify. I might run them as allies one day, but that will be way in the future.
The Ironstriders are mobile autocannon platforms.
Not a bad idea.
But watch out for high strength ordnance shells.
It's probably a matter of whether or not taking them is just better served by taking other IG units.
MrScience wrote: The flintlock style weapons they have is pretty cool, with these and other stuff like Scions it seems they're pushing this pseudo Renaissance style which I'm totally okay with.
The prices on those walkers are a bit much for me though, even when working full time it's hard to justify. I might run them as allies one day, but that will be way in the future.
The Ironstriders are mobile autocannon platforms.
Not a bad idea.
But watch out for high strength ordnance shells.
admech walkers vs a Lemen russ squadron could be an intreasting match up.
MrScience wrote: The flintlock style weapons they have is pretty cool, with these and other stuff like Scions it seems they're pushing this pseudo Renaissance style which I'm totally okay with.
The prices on those walkers are a bit much for me though, even when working full time it's hard to justify. I might run them as allies one day, but that will be way in the future.
The Ironstriders are mobile autocannon platforms.
Not a bad idea.
But watch out for high strength ordnance shells.
admech walkers vs a Lemen russ squadron could be an intreasting match up.
I have to wonder if being able to shoot with BS2 rather than 1 when snap shooting will make that much of a difference; obviously statistically they'd hit 33% of the time which is a big jump. Basically they feel like Sentinels that might see use outside of low point games.
Just wondering, but technically, I know certain forge world's specialise in certain technologies, should the Skitarii have access to any vehicle, tank, walker, etc in the IoM?
NoiseMarine with Tinnitus wrote: Just wondering, but technically, I know certain forge world's specialise in certain technologies, should the Skitarii have access to any vehicle, tank, walker, etc in the IoM?
Not practical for a codex admittedly.
The Skitarii do have access to everything the IoM uses except in specific circumstances like the Land Raider (the Emperor said only the Space Marines can if I recall).
I have to wonder if being able to shoot with BS2 rather than 1 when snap shooting will make that much of a difference; obviously statistically they'd hit 33% of the time which is a big jump. Basically they feel like Sentinels that might see use outside of low point games.
The weapons we see on it are twin linked
This gives you a .55 chance to hit when snap firing. Better than BS3 with skyfire.
The Skitarii do have access to everything the IoM uses except in specific circumstances like the Land Raider (the Emperor said only the Space Marines can if I recall).
Actually it was Guilleman. It was part of his total reorganisation of the Imperial war machine in the wake of the Horus Heresy.
Has anyone done some math-hammer to figure out if the Cognis Auto-Cannon out-performs the Cognis Las over-all?
I imagine these walkers are a TAC-list dream come true, as they can be anti-air, anti-elite, anti-vehicle all on one platform, but I wonder if it is better to run more and have extra shots, versus the AP2 and higher strength of LAS?
Versus flyers/vehicles, is there a "standard" logic for what S and AP makes it worth going for one versus the other?
NewTruthNeomaxim wrote: Has anyone done some math-hammer to figure out if the Cognis Auto-Cannon out-performs the Cognis Las over-all?
I imagine these walkers are a TAC-list dream come true, as they can be anti-air, anti-elite, anti-vehicle all on one platform, but I wonder if it is better to run more and have extra shots, versus the AP2 and higher strength of LAS?
Versus flyers/vehicles, is there a "standard" logic for what S and AP makes it worth going for one versus the other?
too many variables
AV10-11 Autocannons will give you more hull point stripping
AV12 they get the same number of hull points stripped
AV13 favors the lascannon heavily
AV14 the autocannons cannot hurt it
The las is usually getting more damage results, more pens less glances. Which is good against things with more hull points or tanks that only have 1 weapon or depend on their mobility.
Also... Ad-Mech/Grey Knights. Draigo w/Ad-Mech Vanguard. He can Gate them around for rapid-fire Haywire/tank-killing, tank shots for them on his 2+ 3++ Eternal Warrior, and in melee their Rad Saturation lowers targets T by 1, making it easier for Draigo to do some monster hunting.
NewTruthNeomaxim wrote: Also... Ad-Mech/Grey Knights. Draigo w/Ad-Mech Vanguard. He can Gate them around for rapid-fire Haywire/tank-killing, tank shots for them on his 2+ 3++ Eternal Warrior, and in melee their Rad Saturation lowers targets T by 1, making it easier for Draigo to do some monster hunting.
Hmmm.
Is it an allied Detachment, or just the same army?
TheAvengingKnee wrote: I am just hoping they get some kind of transport, cause foot slogging them is gonna be pretty painful.
A bunch of sources said the HS tank kit doubles as some kind of transport kit. I don't know if it'll be any good, but it will exist.
Beyond that... there are always the usual Rent-A-Pod allies, and Gate-allies.
I hope. I don't want to footslog.
Totally agree, they're the sort of unit a pie plate might be thrown at...
Was thinking of allying some Rangers with my Flesh Tearers and putting them in a FA Pod. Drop 'em next to an enemy's objective behind their lines in Rapid Fire range and clear the objective for yourelf as Rangers are Troops. The opposition's forces will then be split too and the Skitarii are pretty durable so should cause a long enough distraction if that is their destiny. Also have a few shooty walkers to lay down fire support and act as AA. Just a thought, especially as they are a perfect addition to a very assault based army.
I have to echo many other people's comments here and congratulate GW on a good start to this new faction, just hoping for more of the same! I feel the chicken is getting too much hate too, as although it is slightly silly I think it fits with the original concepts and aesthetics of the army. Will hopefully be getting one, though maybe later from a Third party...
TheAvengingKnee wrote: I am just hoping they get some kind of transport, cause foot slogging them is gonna be pretty painful.
A bunch of sources said the HS tank kit doubles as some kind of transport kit. I don't know if it'll be any good, but it will exist.
Beyond that... there are always the usual Rent-A-Pod allies, and Gate-allies.
I hope. I don't want to footslog.
Totally agree, they're the sort of unit a pie plate might be thrown at...
Was thinking of allying some Rangers with my Flesh Tearers and putting them in a FA Pod. Drop 'em next to an enemy's objective behind their lines in Rapid Fire range and clear the objective for yourelf as Rangers are Troops. The opposition's forces will then be split too and the Skitarii are pretty durable so should cause a long enough distraction if that is their destiny. Also have a few shooty walkers to lay down fire support and act as AA. Just a thought, especially as they are a perfect addition to a very assault based army.
I have to echo many other people's comments here and congratulate GW on a good start to this new faction, just hoping for more of the same! I feel the chicken is getting too much hate too, as although it is slightly silly I think it fits with the original concepts and aesthetics of the army. Will hopefully be getting one, though maybe later from a Third party...
I would have to throw them in land raiders to transport them, not opposed to the idea but it is spendy, the vanguard with 3 rapid fire haywire guns in a land raider crusader would make an interesting pair though. also running a ravenwing command squad with a rad grenade to lower the enemies toughness in CC by 2.
Was thinking of allying some Rangers with my Flesh Tearers and putting them in a FA Pod. Drop 'em next to an enemy's objective behind their lines in Rapid Fire range and clear the objective for yourelf as Rangers are Troops. The opposition's forces will then be split too and the Skitarii are pretty durable so should cause a long enough distraction if that is their destiny. Also have a few shooty walkers to lay down fire support and act as AA. Just a thought, especially as they are a perfect addition to a very assault based army.
.
The Vanguard would do better than rangers, below 18" they will rock things, and are cheaper to boot.
(well rock things about as well as you can expect for a 100 point squad)
Was thinking of allying some Rangers with my Flesh Tearers and putting them in a FA Pod. Drop 'em next to an enemy's objective behind their lines in Rapid Fire range and clear the objective for yourelf as Rangers are Troops. The opposition's forces will then be split too and the Skitarii are pretty durable so should cause a long enough distraction if that is their destiny. Also have a few shooty walkers to lay down fire support and act as AA. Just a thought, especially as they are a perfect addition to a very assault based army.
.
The Vanguard would do better than rangers, below 18" they will rock things, and are cheaper to boot.
(well rock things about as well as you can expect for a 100 point squad)
I suspect it'll depend greatly on your local meta and transport options. if the admech's transport options are non-existant or expensive rangers will be favored.
if however they get some sort of cheap fast rhinos, vanguards are going to be REALLY popular
Was thinking of allying some Rangers with my Flesh Tearers and putting them in a FA Pod. Drop 'em next to an enemy's objective behind their lines in Rapid Fire range and clear the objective for yourelf as Rangers are Troops. The opposition's forces will then be split too and the Skitarii are pretty durable so should cause a long enough distraction if that is their destiny. Also have a few shooty walkers to lay down fire support and act as AA. Just a thought, especially as they are a perfect addition to a very assault based army.
.
The Vanguard would do better than rangers, below 18" they will rock things, and are cheaper to boot.
(well rock things about as well as you can expect for a 100 point squad)
I suspect it'll depend greatly on your local meta and transport options. if the admech's transport options are non-existant or expensive rangers will be favored.
if however they get some sort of cheap fast rhinos, vanguards are going to be REALLY popular
yeah, I think they will both be in the mix, but if you were going to put them in a drop pod, it would be vanguard
Was thinking of allying some Rangers with my Flesh Tearers and putting them in a FA Pod. Drop 'em next to an enemy's objective behind their lines in Rapid Fire range and clear the objective for yourelf as Rangers are Troops. The opposition's forces will then be split too and the Skitarii are pretty durable so should cause a long enough distraction if that is their destiny. Also have a few shooty walkers to lay down fire support and act as AA. Just a thought, especially as they are a perfect addition to a very assault based army.
.
The Vanguard would do better than rangers, below 18" they will rock things, and are cheaper to boot.
(well rock things about as well as you can expect for a 100 point squad)
I suspect it'll depend greatly on your local meta and transport options. if the admech's transport options are non-existant or expensive rangers will be favored.
if however they get some sort of cheap fast rhinos, vanguards are going to be REALLY popular
yeah, I think they will both be in the mix, but if you were going to put them in a drop pod, it would be vanguard
Are Vanguards the ones with the rad-weapons? If so, what are their rules (as in the weapon)?
Was thinking of allying some Rangers with my Flesh Tearers and putting them in a FA Pod. Drop 'em next to an enemy's objective behind their lines in Rapid Fire range and clear the objective for yourelf as Rangers are Troops. The opposition's forces will then be split too and the Skitarii are pretty durable so should cause a long enough distraction if that is their destiny. Also have a few shooty walkers to lay down fire support and act as AA. Just a thought, especially as they are a perfect addition to a very assault based army.
.
The Vanguard would do better than rangers, below 18" they will rock things, and are cheaper to boot.
(well rock things about as well as you can expect for a 100 point squad)
I suspect it'll depend greatly on your local meta and transport options. if the admech's transport options are non-existant or expensive rangers will be favored.
if however they get some sort of cheap fast rhinos, vanguards are going to be REALLY popular
yeah, I think they will both be in the mix, but if you were going to put them in a drop pod, it would be vanguard
Are Vanguards the ones with the rad-weapons? If so, what are their rules (as in the weapon)?
range 18 S3 AP 5 assault 3, and rad poisoning. Rad poisioning does 2 wounds on a roll of 6 regardless of toughness.
I see vanguards and rangers working together on the battlefield, rangers will provide long rangeish support, clearing out special weapons teams and the like that could make like hard for the vanguards. the vanguards fight at medium range and act as a hoard clearer. I think they'll be particularly effective vs, orks guard, gaunts and other "flood em with bodies" type approuches
Was thinking of allying some Rangers with my Flesh Tearers and putting them in a FA Pod. Drop 'em next to an enemy's objective behind their lines in Rapid Fire range and clear the objective for yourelf as Rangers are Troops. The opposition's forces will then be split too and the Skitarii are pretty durable so should cause a long enough distraction if that is their destiny. Also have a few shooty walkers to lay down fire support and act as AA. Just a thought, especially as they are a perfect addition to a very assault based army.
.
The Vanguard would do better than rangers, below 18" they will rock things, and are cheaper to boot.
(well rock things about as well as you can expect for a 100 point squad)
I suspect it'll depend greatly on your local meta and transport options. if the admech's transport options are non-existant or expensive rangers will be favored.
if however they get some sort of cheap fast rhinos, vanguards are going to be REALLY popular
yeah, I think they will both be in the mix, but if you were going to put them in a drop pod, it would be vanguard
Are Vanguards the ones with the rad-weapons? If so, what are their rules (as in the weapon)?
range 18 S3 AP 5 assault 3, and rad poisoning. Rad poisioning does 2 wounds on a roll of 6 regardless of toughness.
I see vanguards and rangers working together on the battlefield, rangers will provide long rangeish support, clearing out special weapons teams and the like that could make like hard for the vanguards. the vanguards fight at medium range and act as a hoard clearer. I think they'll be particularly effective vs, orks guard, gaunts and other "flood em with bodies" type approuches
Was thinking of allying some Rangers with my Flesh Tearers and putting them in a FA Pod. Drop 'em next to an enemy's objective behind their lines in Rapid Fire range and clear the objective for yourelf as Rangers are Troops. The opposition's forces will then be split too and the Skitarii are pretty durable so should cause a long enough distraction if that is their destiny. Also have a few shooty walkers to lay down fire support and act as AA. Just a thought, especially as they are a perfect addition to a very assault based army.
.
The Vanguard would do better than rangers, below 18" they will rock things, and are cheaper to boot.
(well rock things about as well as you can expect for a 100 point squad)
I suspect it'll depend greatly on your local meta and transport options. if the admech's transport options are non-existant or expensive rangers will be favored.
if however they get some sort of cheap fast rhinos, vanguards are going to be REALLY popular
yeah, I think they will both be in the mix, but if you were going to put them in a drop pod, it would be vanguard
Are Vanguards the ones with the rad-weapons? If so, what are their rules (as in the weapon)?
range 18 S3 AP 5 assault 3, and rad poisoning. Rad poisioning does 2 wounds on a roll of 6 regardless of toughness.
I see vanguards and rangers working together on the battlefield, rangers will provide long rangeish support, clearing out special weapons teams and the like that could make like hard for the vanguards. the vanguards fight at medium range and act as a hoard clearer. I think they'll be particularly effective vs, orks guard, gaunts and other "flood em with bodies" type approuches
I see. That's quite good!
yeah if there's one thing there's little room for complaint about it's the basic infantry rifles they have
Honestly, for their over-all points, and special weapon options, I legitimately think Vanguard may end up being one of the best basic troops in all of 40k.
That is unless Doctrine is some debilitating special rule. :-p
NewTruthNeomaxim wrote: Honestly, for their over-all points, and special weapon options, I legitimately think Vanguard may end up being one of the best basic troops in all of 40k.
That is unless Doctrine is some debilitating special rule. :-p
The Skitarii do have access to everything the IoM uses except in specific circumstances like the Land Raider (the Emperor said only the Space Marines can if I recall).
Actually it was Guilleman. It was part of his total reorganisation of the Imperial war machine in the wake of the Horus Heresy.
According to the Land Raider IA it was the Emperor, he issued the edict early in the Heresy when the primary Land Raider production world (Anvilus 9) was lost to the rebels.
range 18 S3 AP 5 assault 3, and rad poisoning. Rad poisioning does 2 wounds on a roll of 6 regardless of toughness.
I see vanguards and rangers working together on the battlefield, rangers will provide long rangeish support, clearing out special weapons teams and the like that could make like hard for the vanguards. the vanguards fight at medium range and act as a hoard clearer. I think they'll be particularly effective vs, orks guard, gaunts and other "flood em with bodies" type approuches
Even against things with armor saves, Vanguard spit out the wounds.
Against Meq 30 shots, 20 hit, 3.3 wound and 3.3 double wound for 10 wounds. 3.3 dead Meq.
Pretty good for a simple infantry unit costing 100 points.
Was thinking of allying some Rangers with my Flesh Tearers and putting them in a FA Pod. Drop 'em next to an enemy's objective behind their lines in Rapid Fire range and clear the objective for yourelf as Rangers are Troops. The opposition's forces will then be split too and the Skitarii are pretty durable so should cause a long enough distraction if that is their destiny. Also have a few shooty walkers to lay down fire support and act as AA. Just a thought, especially as they are a perfect addition to a very assault based army.
.
The Vanguard would do better than rangers, below 18" they will rock things, and are cheaper to boot.
(well rock things about as well as you can expect for a 100 point squad)
The Vanguard ARE pretty effective up close and are pretty handy at handing out death to Infantry. Also just realised that Assault 3, nice... but the Rangers get double shots up close (still less than Vanguard though) and precision shot can hopefully get the squad leader dead to reduce morale etc. Thinking about it Vanguard are probably better for this though with Rangers hanging back.
Was thinking of allying some Rangers with my Flesh Tearers and putting them in a FA Pod. Drop 'em next to an enemy's objective behind their lines in Rapid Fire range and clear the objective for yourelf as Rangers are Troops. The opposition's forces will then be split too and the Skitarii are pretty durable so should cause a long enough distraction if that is their destiny. Also have a few shooty walkers to lay down fire support and act as AA. Just a thought, especially as they are a perfect addition to a very assault based army.
.
The Vanguard would do better than rangers, below 18" they will rock things, and are cheaper to boot.
(well rock things about as well as you can expect for a 100 point squad)
The Vanguard ARE pretty effective up close and are pretty handy at handing out death to Infantry. Also just realised that Assault 3, nice... but the Rangers get double shots up close (still less than Vanguard though) and precision shot can hopefully get the squad leader dead to reduce morale etc. Thinking about it Vanguard are probably better for this though with Rangers hanging back.
'
Yeah I'm thinking of a pair up system, use the rangers to clear out squad leaders and special weapons, and then mop up with the vanguards
The Vanguard ARE pretty effective up close and are pretty handy at handing out death to Infantry. Also just realised that Assault 3, nice... but the Rangers get double shots up close (still less than Vanguard though) and precision shot can hopefully get the squad leader dead to reduce morale etc. Thinking about it Vanguard are probably better for this though with Rangers hanging back.
'
Yeah I'm thinking of a pair up system, use the rangers to clear out squad leaders and special weapons, and then mop up with the vanguards
I sure hope that's how they're gonna work best, and if indeed it is it may be one of the few instances when the fluff, rules and roles a unit is meant to play by GW is actually how people play them in game. Excited for these guys!
aka_mythos wrote: I'm guessing the dedicated transports were just omitted from WD because those vehicles werent being released at the same time.
Of course they were. I mean, the last thing we need is people investing in a new army knowing what's coming out a mere 168 hours later! People wouldn't be able to cope with such foreknowledge!
The Vanguard would do better than rangers, below 18" they will rock things, and are cheaper to boot.
(well rock things about as well as you can expect for a 100 point squad)
The Vanguard ARE pretty effective up close and are pretty handy at handing out death to Infantry. Also just realised that Assault 3, nice... but the Rangers get double shots up close (still less than Vanguard though) and precision shot can hopefully get the squad leader dead to reduce morale etc. Thinking about it Vanguard are probably better for this though with Rangers hanging back.
Assault 3 AND wound doubling on 6s. That doesnt make too much difference against grots, but really comes into play against tougher targets.
Was thinking of allying some Rangers with my Flesh Tearers and putting them in a FA Pod. Drop 'em next to an enemy's objective behind their lines in Rapid Fire range and clear the objective for yourelf as Rangers are Troops. The opposition's forces will then be split too and the Skitarii are pretty durable so should cause a long enough distraction if that is their destiny. Also have a few shooty walkers to lay down fire support and act as AA. Just a thought, especially as they are a perfect addition to a very assault based army.
.
The Vanguard would do better than rangers, below 18" they will rock things, and are cheaper to boot.
(well rock things about as well as you can expect for a 100 point squad)
The Vanguard ARE pretty effective up close and are pretty handy at handing out death to Infantry. Also just realised that Assault 3, nice... but the Rangers get double shots up close (still less than Vanguard though) and precision shot can hopefully get the squad leader dead to reduce morale etc. Thinking about it Vanguard are probably better for this though with Rangers hanging back.
'
Yeah I'm thinking of a pair up system, use the rangers to clear out squad leaders and special weapons, and then mop up with the vanguards
That actually sounds quite fun and interesting. I hope it works out that way.
I just started and began with my flesh tearer army but have now seen this new codex and am quite interested.
The issue Im having is, there is plenty of info regarding the existing armies and what each army is good at, i.e orks - meat grinder, space marine - jack of all, eldar - glass canon etc
so im looking at the skitarii and comparing them 1 for 1 with a tactical marine squad it seems they are lesser on all counts? what am i missing, im assuming its the weapons...
I just started and began with my flesh tearer army but have now seen this new codex and am quite interested.
The issue Im having is, there is plenty of info regarding the existing armies and what each army is good at, i.e orks - meat grinder, space marine - jack of all, eldar - glass canon etc
so im looking at the skitarii and comparing them 1 for 1 with a tactical marine squad it seems they are lesser on all counts? what am i missing, im assuming its the weapons...
sorry for being a noob
and the point cost.
Assuming no upgrades a tatical squad is 170 points for 10 men.
A Skitarii Vanguard squad is 100 points for 10 men.
the Skitarii squads can also take 2 special weapons vs the Space Marines 2 (and one of those 2 is a heavy weapon that can't fire on the move) Space Marines bolt guns aren;t quite as good, and their special weapons are, arguerably inferior,
So the admech does have flimsier infantry, but they hit harder are more mobile, and they're going to have MORE of them. for the price of a unupgraded tatical squad, I'm gonna have a 10 man vnaguard squad, with a 5 man squad of rangers for cover fire.
And assuming your space Marines buy the "useal upgrades" you might be looking at an admech player being able to toss two full squads of vanguards atcha.
I'm actually really happy this is coming out. I've been thinking about how to convert some Inquisitorial Acolytes with bolters for a while now.
Considering my Inquisitor has ties with the AdMech, the Ranger/Vanguard kit would be perfect. I'd probably use the Galvanic Rifles as bolters and use the Vanguard helmets. I believe that would nicely represent Carapace armoured Acolytes with Bolters ... supplied ofc by the admech.
Colour-wise I'm thinking White Armour and Purple cloaks.
I just started and began with my flesh tearer army but have now seen this new codex and am quite interested.
The issue Im having is, there is plenty of info regarding the existing armies and what each army is good at, i.e orks - meat grinder, space marine - jack of all, eldar - glass canon etc
so im looking at the skitarii and comparing them 1 for 1 with a tactical marine squad it seems they are lesser on all counts? what am i missing, im assuming its the weapons...
sorry for being a noob
I will be adding Mechanicum forces to my Flesh Tearers army. Why? They are basically chalk and cheese and work like magic together! The Blood Angels' etc. strengths lie in their (expensive) elite choices that butcher most things in CC. You generally don't want these guys sitting around to get shot... Skitarii are cheap and can throw out a lot of effective firepower to the right places and they're great for camping objectives or holding central buildings/terrain. Tactical squads are versatile and can be left behind to shoot stuff, but imho you want them to be worth their points and get up close to the enemy where they are more likely to kill things and earn their points back. They both have different roles and very different synergy, so depending on your play style they will do different things for you. But of course its not all about winning! Right?
I will be adding Mechanicum forces to my Flesh Tearers army. Why? They are basically chalk and cheese and work like magic together! The Blood Angels' etc. strengths lie in their (expensive) elite choices that butcher most things in CC. You generally don't want these guys sitting around to get shot... Skitarii are cheap and can throw out a lot of effective firepower to the right places and they're great for camping objectives or holding central buildings/terrain. Tactical squads are versatile and can be left behind to shoot stuff, but imho you want them to be worth their points and get up close to the enemy where they are more likely to kill things and earn their points back. They both have different roles and very different synergy, so depending on your play style they will do different things for you. But of course its not all about winning! Right?
Just my thoughts anyway!
While I wholeheartedly agree that the new Skitarii seem like fantastic, effective cheap troops, I'm not yet convinced they'll be an ideal BA ally if you have only 2 detachments. Vanguard aren't THAT much cheaper than tacticals, and more importantly, they have nothing big or super scary (that we know of, yet), which is really what BA lack. Other than Dante, BA really have nothing in the MC/Titan category of destruction and survivability, so if I were playing a 2 detachment force, I would want to have something like centurions with tiggy, imperial knights, GK with dreadknights, etc.
But there are a couple more weeks to go, so I could be totally wrong. Who knows, maybe there will be some HQ or Heavy Support that falls into that category.
As it sits, with the limited rules we currently have, Ad-Mech Skitarii as allies looks to make Blood Angels, Space Wolves, and Grey Knights all significantly scarier.
They PERFECTLY synergize.
Automatically Appended Next Post: As for not having anything too scary...
Um... ultra cheap, rapid-fire Haywire that you can put in rented Drop Pods all on a troop choice, outright trumps even Sisters of Battle Melta-Doms as best anti-vehicle anything.
NewTruthNeomaxim wrote: As it sits, with the limited rules we currently have, Ad-Mech Skitarii as allies looks to make Blood Angels, Space Wolves, and Grey Knights all significantly scarier.
They PERFECTLY synergize.
Automatically Appended Next Post: As for not having anything too scary...
Um... ultra cheap, rapid-fire Haywire that you can put in rented Drop Pods all on a troop choice, outright trumps even Sisters of Battle Melta-Doms as best anti-vehicle anything.
I'm not seeing skitarii as providing enough to claim the best ally away from guard. Guard do shooty, hangback objective camping really well.
Skitarii vanguard MIGHT be better than melta/plasma vets, but guard bring so much more than just vets to the table.
Well, by that logic we also know that the Skitarii Walkers are priced aggressively enough to be objective grabbers in an environment where 40k is all about missions of some sort.
Oh, and those same models can do very good anti-air as a completely "free" bonus, as special rules go.
And all this is without knowledge of Relics and formations.
As I said, and stand by it... I think Ad-Mech is gonna do some crazy stuff to the meta unless Doctrine Imperative is horrific. :-p
NewTruthNeomaxim wrote: Well, by that logic we also know that the Skitarii Walkers are priced aggressively enough to be objective grabbers in an environment where 40k is all about missions of some sort.
Oh, and those same models can do very good anti-air as a completely "free" bonus, as special rules go.
I think those walkers might be ok for the points, but the suedoskyfire isnt "free" it's definitely baked into what otherwise would be a terribly expensive away to get autocannons or lascannons.
The $$ price is too high though, which means I will be converting large numbers of mech walker, which is what I wanted to do anyway.
Well $$$-Price has no bearing on rules discussion, but I do agree with you. I definitely think we will see a LOT of converted Walkers, and I myself have already ordered 5 Dust "Wildfire/Honey" Walkers to convert into Ballastarius. They're literally 1/3rd the price, and are only 1/4' to 1/2' shorter... so well in the "reasonable proxy" range of any sane TO.
NewTruthNeomaxim wrote: They're literally 1/3rd the price, and are only 1/4' to 1/2' shorter... so well in the "reasonable proxy" range of any sane TO.
I hope you mean 1/4" to 1/2" because 1/2' shorter would be a huge difference.
I will have to come up with a back story reason that my DA and Admech are working together. I have gone with a theme of using old tech to hunt a friends CSM so far so should not be hard to roll them in as allies(just can't let them see the truth).
NewTruthNeomaxim wrote: They're literally 1/3rd the price, and are only 1/4' to 1/2' shorter... so well in the "reasonable proxy" range of any sane TO.
I hope you mean 1/4" to 1/2" because 1/2' shorter would be a huge difference.
yup, it's not hard at all to do. a crusading force consisting of skitarii, dark angels, imperial guard, Imperial Knights with a full fledged titan as the LOW... is pretty fluffy
yup, it's not hard at all to do. a crusading force consisting of skitarii, dark angels, imperial guard, Imperial Knights with a full fledged titan as the LOW... is pretty fluffy
well yes, but working together for a longer time would imply some sort of trust and affinity. The DA dont trust many people due to their "secret". You know the secret that practically everyone actually knows, but that they are still in the closet about. It could be that the DA have some dirt on this group of skitarii, that the skitarii have some even worse secret and that makes them virtual slaves of the DA. Or it could be that the skitarii are super interested in one of the fallen for some reason, and that they in the process of investigating revealed to the DA that they know about them and will wipe the memories of the whole fallen thing if the DA help them find some STC that the fallen currently posses, but otherwise will broadcast it to Mars.
Well, great news on the Doctrine front... its not a DEBUFF! :-)
This week's WD accidentally reveals one, and it seems you give one army-wide "order" per turn.
The first grants models +3 BS, but -2 WS for the turn.
So it sounds like you need to either list build, or very tactically think about what your army will be doing that turn, in a macro-sense, but they do seem to provide pretty deep situational bonuses!
Combined Mechanicum/AdMech is now the single coolest army in 40k.
AdMech on their own are going to be super-boring gameplay wise.
But definitely bring on an army that'll contain: character HQ, 3 HQ choices, walkers, MCs, flyers, knights, infantry, jetpacks, jump packs, beasts, tanks and giant freight trains o' pain.
Furyou Miko wrote: Dark Angels believe that they have the only Imperial Jetbike still flying in 40k. A few civilian ones appear in Malleus (Dan Abnett) however.
That may however be just a mistake on their part, though at the same time it was mentioned that Sammuel seems to end up with a fully repaired jetbike no matter how much damage his takes.
O that isnt a Jet-bike, it's a hover-scooter. We have millions of them. Hoverscooters and jetbikes are totally different dont you know. The technology that powers them is like oil and water.
I wonder if and when they will get more models. I absolutely love the skitarii and walker things, but to make an entire army out of them would be boring, not to mention very expensive.
This week's WD accidentally reveals one, and it seems you give one army-wide "order" per turn.
The first grants models +3 BS, but -2 WS for the turn.
So it sounds like you need to either list build, or very tactically think about what your army will be doing that turn, in a macro-sense, but they do seem to provide pretty deep situational bonuses!
I bet they're gonna work like UM chapter tactics. you have a half dozen, they effect your army all at the same time, and are one use.
This week's WD accidentally reveals one, and it seems you give one army-wide "order" per turn.
The first grants models +3 BS, but -2 WS for the turn.
So it sounds like you need to either list build, or very tactically think about what your army will be doing that turn, in a macro-sense, but they do seem to provide pretty deep situational bonuses!
I bet they're gonna work like UM chapter tactics. you have a half dozen, they effect your army all at the same time, and are one use.
Still, we need to learn more.
Like +3 BS, but -2WS. First what is the point of +3 BS on an army full of BS4? Does it affect snap firing? Is there any reason you wouldnt use this on the first turn for a great alpha strike?
It just seems too weird.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Furyou Miko wrote: So far we have two light walkers, four infantry and one heavy walker guaranteed by leaked images.
yes and it is rumored the heavy walker is a dual kit, one of which is a transport.
Been contemplating taking a Skitarri force to go along with my DKOK Tank list, what are you guys thoughts on Maxing out the Close Combat Dragoons with a few Iron Striders and Ranger teams?
gmaleron wrote: Been contemplating taking a Skitarri force to go along with my DKOK Tank list, what are you guys thoughts on Maxing out the Close Combat Dragoons with a few Iron Striders and Ranger teams?
sounds fun.
it looks like the latest leaks show us there is a formation based around the walkers. 2 dragoons and an ironstrider. so maybe go with dragoons, 3 iron striders, that's about 700 points that you could take there.
For fun based whats released I pointed up a list with:
x3 Squads of 6 Dragoons
-x3 Squads of 3 Iron Striders (2 squads with Lascannons, 1 with Autocannons)
-Rest of army made up of Ranger Squads with Haywire Rifle Special Weapon Choices.
Idea would be to be insanely fast and maneuverable with Dragoons and rush them forward while Iron Striders and Rangers seek out enemy vehicles primarily and do what they need to.
The rules for the new units (rustwalkers & infiltrators) are sexy as hell. Too bad they're so expensive. They got decent delivery (+3" to move, run and assault) but they lack survivability. FNP isn't going to help much on T3 models (Heavily modified humans with metal that replaces half or more of their organic tissue with metal, but still as squishy as a guardsman? Seems legit).
They cost more than a Triarch Praetorian but what do they really bring to the table that outclasses them? I'd take jump pack over dunestrider. You want these 4+ dudes to benefit from cover, but at the same time you really don't want them in there because terrain hinders your advance.
This codex will stand or fall by its formations and bonuses from the doctrine.
Ya know... I gotta be honest here, I always pictured the Skitarii sort of merrr, skittering. I don't know why, I just never thought they'd be bipedal, and as machine men, I think they could've had lots of neat shapes and numbers of arms and legs. Heck even tracks, wheels and jet packs. I pictured them as rolling packs of machinery and weapons steadily crawling and leaping forward in a never ending tide of whirring writhing death that you did "not" wanna find yourself anywhere near in a dark alley late at night.
Don't get me wrong, I think the models are really excellent, just not exactly what I was expecting Skitarii to look like really. I love those walkers though.
Phyrekzhogos wrote: Ya know... I gotta be honest here, I always pictured the Skitarii sort of merrr, skittering. I don't know why, I just never thought they'd be bipedal, and as machine men, I think they could've had lots of neat shapes and numbers of arms and legs. Heck even tracks, wheels and jet packs. I pictured them as rolling packs of machinery and weapons steadily crawling and leaping forward in a never ending tide of whirring writhing death that you did "not" wanna find yourself anywhere near in a dark alley late at night.
Don't get me wrong, I think the models are really excellent, just not exactly what I was expecting Skitarii to look like really. I love those walkers though.
To be honest, that is more how I imagine the Dark Mechanicum to look.
Phyrekzhogos wrote: Ya know... I gotta be honest here, I always pictured the Skitarii sort of merrr, skittering. I don't know why, I just never thought they'd be bipedal, and as machine men, I think they could've had lots of neat shapes and numbers of arms and legs. Heck even tracks, wheels and jet packs. I pictured them as rolling packs of machinery and weapons steadily crawling and leaping forward in a never ending tide of whirring writhing death that you did "not" wanna find yourself anywhere near in a dark alley late at night.
Don't get me wrong, I think the models are really excellent, just not exactly what I was expecting Skitarii to look like really. I love those walkers though.
To be honest, that is more how I imagine the Dark Mechanicum to look.
That would excite the crap outta me if I could make that.
The Sicarans are more like you're thinking, and i suspect the main Skitarii force will be as well. The Rangers/Vanguards just happen to be the most human looking, since they're advance forces with little support, and bipedal with hands is a really good shape for that kind of role.
Phyrekzhogos wrote: Ya know... I gotta be honest here, I always pictured the Skitarii sort of merrr, skittering. I don't know why, I just never thought they'd be bipedal, and as machine men, I think they could've had lots of neat shapes and numbers of arms and legs. Heck even tracks, wheels and jet packs. I pictured them as rolling packs of machinery and weapons steadily crawling and leaping forward in a never ending tide of whirring writhing death that you did "not" wanna find yourself anywhere near in a dark alley late at night.
Don't get me wrong, I think the models are really excellent, just not exactly what I was expecting Skitarii to look like really. I love those walkers though.
To be honest, that is more how I imagine the Dark Mechanicum to look.
That would excite the crap outta me if I could make that.
I imagined the robes going virtually all the way to the ground to cover up whatever crazy legs, wheels, tracks, cords. I always imagined the robes being used to conceal the true nature of admech.
I completely revoke any and all negative comments I made on this army.
The FoC gives really good bonuses (crusader and scout on everything) and the doctrines are just insane.
Pop +3 BS, -2 WS on your first turn and suddenly your entire shooting becomes BS7.
The turn after, when all your melee guys are in because obviously those guys are getting range with scout move, turn one move-run and second turn move-charge adding 3" to any move except the scout move.
Even going through terrain, they're mobile as feth.
Turn 1:
6" (scout), 8" on average going through terrain,, another 8" for run move.
Turn 2:
8" move through terrain followed by a 10" on average.
DaPino wrote: I completely revoke any and all negative comments I made on this army.
The FoC gives really good bonuses (crusader and scout on everything) and the doctrines are just insane.
Pop +3 BS, -2 WS on your first turn and suddenly your entire shooting becomes BS7.
The turn after, when all your melee guys are in because obviously those guys are getting range with scout move, turn one move-run and second turn move-charge adding 3" to any move except the scout move.
Even going through terrain, they're mobile as feth.
Turn 1:
6" (scout), 8" on average going through terrain,, another 8" for run move.
Turn 2:
8" move through terrain followed by a 10" on average.
DaPino wrote: I completely revoke any and all negative comments I made on this army.
The FoC gives really good bonuses (crusader and scout on everything) and the doctrines are just insane.
Pop +3 BS, -2 WS on your first turn and suddenly your entire shooting becomes BS7.
The turn after, when all your melee guys are in because obviously those guys are getting range with scout move, turn one move-run and second turn move-charge adding 3" to any move except the scout move.
Even going through terrain, they're mobile as feth.
Turn 1:
6" (scout), 8" on average going through terrain,, another 8" for run move.
Turn 2:
8" move through terrain followed by a 10" on average.
That's 34" by turn 2.
but these aren't the best assault troops in the game. Just because you can close the gap, doesnt mean you can win once you get there. Having played with super high WS, it isnt enough to win you a lot of fights on its own.
DaPino wrote: I completely revoke any and all negative comments I made on this army.
The FoC gives really good bonuses (crusader and scout on everything) and the doctrines are just insane.
Pop +3 BS, -2 WS on your first turn and suddenly your entire shooting becomes BS7.
The turn after, when all your melee guys are in because obviously those guys are getting range with scout move, turn one move-run and second turn move-charge adding 3" to any move except the scout move.
Even going through terrain, they're mobile as feth.
Turn 1:
6" (scout), 8" on average going through terrain,, another 8" for run move.
Turn 2:
8" move through terrain followed by a 10" on average.
That's 34" by turn 2.
but these aren't the best assault troops in the game. Just because you can close the gap, doesnt mean you can win once you get there. Having played with super high WS, it isnt enough to win you a lot of fights on its own.
no but it might be what allows your "CYBORG NINJAS!" to survive till turn 2 of assault to get those AP2 weapons
Phyrekzhogos wrote: Ya know... I gotta be honest here, I always pictured the Skitarii sort of merrr, skittering. I don't know why, I just never thought they'd be bipedal, and as machine men, I think they could've had lots of neat shapes and numbers of arms and legs. Heck even tracks, wheels and jet packs. I pictured them as rolling packs of machinery and weapons steadily crawling and leaping forward in a never ending tide of whirring writhing death that you did "not" wanna find yourself anywhere near in a dark alley late at night.
Don't get me wrong, I think the models are really excellent, just not exactly what I was expecting Skitarii to look like really. I love those walkers though.
To be honest, that is more how I imagine the Dark Mechanicum to look.
That would excite the crap outta me if I could make that.
I imagined the robes going virtually all the way to the ground to cover up whatever crazy legs, wheels, tracks, cords. I always imagined the robes being used to conceal the true nature of admech.
That is implying shame of what they are, or secrecy of their nature, both of which they are the opposite. They see their tech level as a honour.
Phyrekzhogos wrote: Ya know... I gotta be honest here, I always pictured the Skitarii sort of merrr, skittering. I don't know why, I just never thought they'd be bipedal, and as machine men, I think they could've had lots of neat shapes and numbers of arms and legs. Heck even tracks, wheels and jet packs. I pictured them as rolling packs of machinery and weapons steadily crawling and leaping forward in a never ending tide of whirring writhing death that you did "not" wanna find yourself anywhere near in a dark alley late at night.
Don't get me wrong, I think the models are really excellent, just not exactly what I was expecting Skitarii to look like really. I love those walkers though.
To be honest, that is more how I imagine the Dark Mechanicum to look.
That would excite the crap outta me if I could make that.
I imagined the robes going virtually all the way to the ground to cover up whatever crazy legs, wheels, tracks, cords. I always imagined the robes being used to conceal the true nature of admech.
That is implying shame of what they are, or secrecy of their nature, both of which they are the opposite. They see their tech level as a honour.
Certainly proud when among each other. But I guess I am thinking of a tech priest hiding himself when not among other Mechanicus lest he attract attention and perhaps lose the appearance of being human.
Phyrekzhogos wrote: Ya know... I gotta be honest here, I always pictured the Skitarii sort of merrr, skittering. I don't know why, I just never thought they'd be bipedal, and as machine men, I think they could've had lots of neat shapes and numbers of arms and legs. Heck even tracks, wheels and jet packs. I pictured them as rolling packs of machinery and weapons steadily crawling and leaping forward in a never ending tide of whirring writhing death that you did "not" wanna find yourself anywhere near in a dark alley late at night.
Don't get me wrong, I think the models are really excellent, just not exactly what I was expecting Skitarii to look like really. I love those walkers though.
To be honest, that is more how I imagine the Dark Mechanicum to look.
That would excite the crap outta me if I could make that.
I imagined the robes going virtually all the way to the ground to cover up whatever crazy legs, wheels, tracks, cords. I always imagined the robes being used to conceal the true nature of admech.
That is implying shame of what they are, or secrecy of their nature, both of which they are the opposite. They see their tech level as a honour.
I don't think that implies shame at all. There are plenty of situations where a person clothes themselves in normal every day environments with consideration for those around them. I'm not ashamed of my gut, but I probably wouldn't go wander around the mall with you wearing half a shirt. It wouldn't bother me in the slightest, but I'd put money on it bothering other people.
Phyrekzhogos wrote: Ya know... I gotta be honest here, I always pictured the Skitarii sort of merrr, skittering. I don't know why, I just never thought they'd be bipedal, and as machine men, I think they could've had lots of neat shapes and numbers of arms and legs. Heck even tracks, wheels and jet packs. I pictured them as rolling packs of machinery and weapons steadily crawling and leaping forward in a never ending tide of whirring writhing death that you did "not" wanna find yourself anywhere near in a dark alley late at night.
Don't get me wrong, I think the models are really excellent, just not exactly what I was expecting Skitarii to look like really. I love those walkers though.
To be honest, that is more how I imagine the Dark Mechanicum to look.
That would excite the crap outta me if I could make that.
I imagined the robes going virtually all the way to the ground to cover up whatever crazy legs, wheels, tracks, cords. I always imagined the robes being used to conceal the true nature of admech.
That is implying shame of what they are, or secrecy of their nature, both of which they are the opposite. They see their tech level as a honour.
Certainly proud when among each other. But I guess I am thinking of a tech priest hiding himself when not among other Mechanicus lest he attract attention and perhaps lose the appearance of being human.
generally tech preists don't care about such things, except for those whom act as facilitators with the rest of the Imperium. who try to remain human looking. after all it's only logical to ensure the comfort of those they must Liason with?
Phyrekzhogos wrote: Ya know... I gotta be honest here, I always pictured the Skitarii sort of merrr, skittering. I don't know why, I just never thought they'd be bipedal, and as machine men, I think they could've had lots of neat shapes and numbers of arms and legs. Heck even tracks, wheels and jet packs. I pictured them as rolling packs of machinery and weapons steadily crawling and leaping forward in a never ending tide of whirring writhing death that you did "not" wanna find yourself anywhere near in a dark alley late at night.
Don't get me wrong, I think the models are really excellent, just not exactly what I was expecting Skitarii to look like really. I love those walkers though.
To be honest, that is more how I imagine the Dark Mechanicum to look.
That would excite the crap outta me if I could make that.
I imagined the robes going virtually all the way to the ground to cover up whatever crazy legs, wheels, tracks, cords. I always imagined the robes being used to conceal the true nature of admech.
That is implying shame of what they are, or secrecy of their nature, both of which they are the opposite. They see their tech level as a honour.
I don't think that implies shame at all. There are plenty of situations where a person clothes themselves in normal every day environments with consideration for those around them. I'm not ashamed of my gut, but I probably wouldn't go wander around the mall with you wearing half a shirt. It wouldn't bother me in the slightest, but I'd put money on it bothering other people.
But if you were super proud of your gut and it was a symbol of your status, you would leave it hanging out. Which is what I was trying to say, their augmentations are a symbol of their status.
Phyrekzhogos wrote: Ya know... I gotta be honest here, I always pictured the Skitarii sort of merrr, skittering. I don't know why, I just never thought they'd be bipedal, and as machine men, I think they could've had lots of neat shapes and numbers of arms and legs. Heck even tracks, wheels and jet packs. I pictured them as rolling packs of machinery and weapons steadily crawling and leaping forward in a never ending tide of whirring writhing death that you did "not" wanna find yourself anywhere near in a dark alley late at night.
Don't get me wrong, I think the models are really excellent, just not exactly what I was expecting Skitarii to look like really. I love those walkers though.
To be honest, that is more how I imagine the Dark Mechanicum to look.
That would excite the crap outta me if I could make that.
Just in case you haven't seen it, here's one of the nicest Dark Mechanicus armies I've seen:
So there's know real codex just what people have made up for rules i guess i won't be getting any thing why can't gw make rules for them and not some ones made up stuff
warsawwarriors wrote: So there's know real codex just what people have made up for rules i guess i won't be getting any thing why can't gw make rules for them and not some ones made up stuff
What?
The Codex goes up for preorder today.
Everything being discussed in the News and Rumor thread is leaked material or from the previous week's White Dwarf.
@lliu - Yes! They are very unique. Love them or hate them, I don't see any accusations of ripping off other IP They also appeal to a different crowd that then standard space marine, and they're a nice break from the norm, IMO.
I think the paint job they have could have been better if they didn't paint the whole limb metallic silver. That's generally a very underwhelming color that looks good when it's contrasted with a brighter, more striking color. As it stands, the torsos look detailed, and the limbs look too simple. If they had broken up the silver with a bit of copper like they did in the other skitarii kits it would have been better.
IDK, seems like they did a bit of a rush job on the paint to me, otherwise the models are great.
warsawwarriors wrote: So there's know real codex just what people have made up for rules i guess i won't be getting any thing why can't gw make rules for them and not some ones made up stuff
no there is a real codex, the news and rumor fourm is just where the info is getting put up as it's not actually out yet. but we've gotten a LOT of info from white dwarf etc
warsawwarriors wrote: Ok to the people saying that get info from white dwarf how so i haven't seen one of them in a very long time i thought they stopped making them
Nope, they just revamped their look and split some of its content to Warhammer Visions. All you have to do is look online on Google, it's not that hard. http://www.games-workshop.com/en-US/blog/blog.jsp
The true Adeptus Mechanicus codex will have to have the LOW slot... If rules represented the fluff they'd be like the one Horus Heresy FOC that has three LoW slots with the rest all secondary.
aka_mythos wrote: The true Adeptus Mechanicus codex will have to have the LOW slot... If rules represented the fluff they'd be like the one Horus Heresy FOC that has three LoW slots with the rest all secondary.
unless GW gives us a plastic titan I just don't see that happening. a p[art of me wonders if skitarii will be "it" from GW for the forseeable future. and FW'll handle the l;egio cybernetica (they have some great stuff for 30k already) and the titan legions
Talys wrote: @lliu - Yes! They are very unique. Love them or hate them, I don't see any accusations of ripping off other IP They also appeal to a different crowd that then standard space marine, and they're a nice break from the norm, IMO.
At first glance I see light sabers. I see General Grevious. I even see the domed droid in Phantom Menace that Jar Jar Binks can't control. "Hit him on the nose."
The look of the entire army is great except for the crab tank. Makes sense from the fluff I guess, and the Ad Mech is more about function over aesthetics, but that thing...
Rules- they got some solid rules, and those "doctrine"- wow. The WS chart is a joke to begin with, so who wouldn't want +2 BS/-2 WS? Also, Arc Rifles!
What befuddles is the lack of an HQ and transports. It seems to be a trend that these "off shoot" codexes are seriously lacking in the fundamental army aspect. While you could buy the fluff that Skitarii are all plugged into a network, and the Mageous or Tech Priest or whatever you want to call him is in orbit on a ship controlling the army... how does the army get to the surface to begin with? Once on the ground, how do they get from point A to B? Hope that some IG or Space Marines are around to give them a lift? And what IG or Space Marine would want a walking radioactive disaster with them or inside one of their transports?
It's hard not to bash on GW a little bit when they are giving us such wonderful, new toys to play with. These Codexes just feel... incomplete. Like you can't make a proper army of Skitarii. The best you can do is a detachment of them. That is the real let down here. With all the stuff they could have put in the Skitarri codex, we get a couple troops, a couple fast attack, and a couple HS. Nothing else. Such a missed opportunity.
So yeah, great looking army, but just shy of the bulls-eye (maybe the inner ring though).
I like the fact that some of these different armies have atypical FOCs and lack components, it adds distinction to these factions. The Skitarii end up with this almost "we are borg" vibe due to a lack of clear leader. Also consider that separate from the larger Adeptus Mechanicus the Skitarii would likely accompany the Titan Legions where their leaders are effectively inside giant walkers.
aka_mythos wrote: I like the fact that some of these different armies have atypical FOCs and lack components, it adds distinction to these factions. The Skitarii end up with this almost "we are borg" vibe due to a lack of clear leader. Also consider that separate from the larger Adeptus Mechanicus the Skitarii would likely accompany the Titan Legions where their leaders are effectively inside giant walkers.
certainly better than every faction having everything just to fit everything. Like how Ogryns kind of feel out of place for guard, but hey everybody has to have a heavy assault unit.
They look like the old Sisters theme, all that high tech yet ancient religious church look like the flagellants and penitent engine. They're very tempting but those walker prices though jesus...for walkers..
lliu wrote: So how are the Ruststalkers and Infiltrators?
generally underwelming.
The infiltrators have an aura debuff though which could be nice.
I was in totally the same mindset as you were until I read that the FoC gives them Crusader and scout.
At first, I was concerned about their delivery, but now I'm pretty sure they are a good MSU army. I'd definately keep infiltrators to a minimum but I would include at least some. Infiltrators seem like good force multipliers as the debuff help keep your units alive.
Ruststalkers, I'm not too keen on though. I'll just ally in a knight.
I think these guys are going to be a big game changer, their warlord traits are really good compared to some other armies with 4 and 6 being really useful for survival. Imagine 6 though a unit of Rangers BS4 on overwatch with a unit of 10, 2 shot each firing and hitting on 3+ on overwatch, if I was the enemy I would not either consider trying to kill them in close combat even if I was desperate (so good objective holder?). I think these guys are going to be a big impact on the game either primary or allied detachment and thats why I bought the collector edition because I have being wanting GW to bring out these guys for 10 years and they have finally answered with some good units (unsure about the walker however). And their close combat units I think are going to be deadly if you ignore them with them be scouts and moving an extra 3 inches in standard moving, running and charging! Also their Imperatives are going to be a game changer as mentioned earlier.
Price wise I think the Vanguards and rangers are well priced with them being cheaper than Space Marine troops (but their point costs are lower meaning you need to buy more of them). However the walker Im a bit unsure on pricing, with a unit of 6 of them thats a lot of money for a full unit (I will be magnetising them reduce the amount of them I'll be buying so I can have the fast attack and heavy support versions).
They will be fitting very nicely with my army of Imperial Guard tank company, cheap effective units that can support themselves with other infantry, making my tanks focus more on armour than anything else with Vanquishers. I will be taking these guys as primary and my tanks secondary as in a 2000pt game I can fit 3 Vanquishers in happily as they will be in a tank commander squad meaning they can shoot at two different targets effectively. Good fluff to bind them together as well.
What do I think their main weakness is from what we have seen, they need to support each other to be effective so you wipe out their range units they will be stuck chasing your units around the board with their close combat units due to their units fitting in specific roles, for example Rangers being long range, Vanguards being close range, Ruststalkers being heavily close combat orientated. Also high strength low AP weapons (AP 1 weapons, getting confused what to say High or Low?), they don't have much armour and you only need a Str 6 weapon to ignore their FnP. They also lack armour, they have one walker tank thing so you don't need much low AP weapons to defeat them meaning you can focus more on stuff like heavy bolters than lascannons. This means they cannot survive on their own so you will need allies for them if you wish to do well with them (thats why Im bringing tanks to cover their major weakness).
This is all theoretical and without the codex so I may be wrong on this so do keep an open mind. This also means that they could also be the worst army or the best (unlikely to be either) however from what I have seen I would say they are an army not to discard and that they are a balanced army, just don't start whining about their strength as being OP as they have got some major flaws as I have mentioned, so take advantage of them. Also vise versa.
(Some of my points may/will be wrong as I am just speculating so do respectively criticise)
In the end we have to wait for the codex and start getting some experience with them.
(This info has come from confirmed things and the sample of the codex from Ibooks)
*Edit* Forgot to mention they have no HQ. This means that slay the warlord could be an easy grab and also some of the warlord traits may not be terribly effective e.g. 1 and 3. 1 being that he will be most likely T 3 and be hammered by a lot of shot due to this and 3 is meh because it only effects him and not his entire unit. So the warlord traits are a bit of mix that means it isn't too bad as they are more balanced (isn't that what everyone wants, both the user and opposition?).
lliu wrote: So how are the Ruststalkers and Infiltrators?
generally underwelming.
The infiltrators have an aura debuff though which could be nice.
I was in totally the same mindset as you were until I read that the FoC gives them Crusader and scout.
At first, I was concerned about their delivery, but now I'm pretty sure they are a good MSU army. I'd definately keep infiltrators to a minimum but I would include at least some. Infiltrators seem like good force multipliers as the debuff help keep your units alive.
Ruststalkers, I'm not too keen on though. I'll just ally in a knight.
True. Lots of small Units make a good Skitarii army.
TanksForTheWin wrote: I think these guys are going to be a big game changer, their warlord traits are really good compared to some other armies with 4 and 6 being really useful for survival. Imagine 6 though a unit of Rangers BS4 on overwatch with a unit of 10, 2 shot each firing and hitting on 3+ on overwatch, if I was the enemy I would not either consider trying to kill them in close combat even if I was desperate (so good objective holder?). I think these guys are going to be a big impact on the game either primary or allied detachment and thats why I bought the collector edition because I have being wanting GW to bring out these guys for 10 years and they have finally answered with some good units (unsure about the walker however). And their close combat units I think are going to be deadly if you ignore them with them be scouts and moving an extra 3 inches in standard moving, running and charging! Also their Imperatives are going to be a game changer as mentioned earlier.
Price wise I think the Vanguards and rangers are well priced with them being cheaper than Space Marine troops (but their point costs are lower meaning you need to buy more of them). However the walker Im a bit unsure on pricing, with a unit of 6 of them thats a lot of money for a full unit (I will be magnetising them reduce the amount of them I'll be buying so I can have the fast attack and heavy support versions).
They will be fitting very nicely with my army of Imperial Guard tank company, cheap effective units that can support themselves with other infantry, making my tanks focus more on armour than anything else with Vanquishers. I will be taking these guys as primary and my tanks secondary as in a 2000pt game I can fit 3 Vanquishers in happily as they will be in a tank commander squad meaning they can shoot at two different targets effectively. Good fluff to bind them together as well.
Those warlord traits are balanced by their warlord options being lackluster. T3, 4+ 2 wounds and can only be protected by a squad of 9 similarly weak wounds.
What do I think their main weakness is from what we have seen, they need to support each other to be effective so you wipe out their range units they will be stuck chasing your units around the board with their close combat units due to their units fitting in specific roles, for example Rangers being long range, Vanguards being close range, Ruststalkers being heavily close combat orientated. Also high strength low AP weapons (AP 1 weapons, getting confused what to say High or Low?), they don't have much armour and you only need a Str 6 weapon to ignore their FnP. They also lack armour, they have one walker tank thing so you don't need much low AP weapons to defeat them meaning you can focus more on stuff like heavy bolters than lascannons. This means they cannot survive on their own so you will need allies for them if you wish to do well with them (thats why Im bringing tanks to cover their major weakness).
This is all theoretical and without the codex so I may be wrong on this so do keep an open mind. This also means that they could also be the worst army or the best (unlikely to be either) however from what I have seen I would say they are an army not to discard and that they are a balanced army, just don't start whining about their strength as being OP as they have got some major flaws as I have mentioned, so take advantage of them. Also vise versa.
The army has a ton of weaknesses, but makes a good ally choice.
Skitarii have lackluster long ranged anti tank, and needs to close to do damage
Skitarii have lackluster long ranged anti infantry and need to close to do damage, although they can take pot shots with rangers, mighty inefficient for AP4 bolters.
Skitarii lack decent combat units. The rustalkers wont be around long enough to get AP2 on all hits. Any decent combat unit will wipe the floor with them.
The army lacks staying power and is particularly vulnerable to Str6 AP4, even worse with ignores cover. There is a lot of Str6 AP4 going around in this meta.
The army wants to close into midrange but then needs to stay at arms length lest they get swept in combat.
I think the Steel Host or a Guard Parking Lot list will make for a great ally for Skitarii. Rangers hang back and hold objectives on your side, Vanguard can move up and protect the armor, or pod in with a BA ally.
The army has a ton of weaknesses, but makes a good ally choice.
Skitarii have lackluster long ranged anti tank, and needs to close to do damage
Skitarii have lackluster long ranged anti infantry and need to close to do damage, although they can take pot shots with rangers, mighty inefficient for AP4 bolters.
Skitarii lack decent combat units. The rustalkers wont be around long enough to get AP2 on all hits. Any decent combat unit will wipe the floor with them.
The army lacks staying power and is particularly vulnerable to Str6 AP4, even worse with ignores cover. There is a lot of Str6 AP4 going around in this meta.
The army wants to close into midrange but then needs to stay at arms length lest they get swept in combat.
I would say that the ruststalkers could survive 1 round to do a lot of damage. Example scenario, 5 rustalkers charge 5 terminators: each are WS 4 so they are hitting on 4+ each, ruststalkers have 4 attacks each (2 base, 1 charge, 1 for 2 melee weapons) and terminators 1. You have been planning this and pull out the "order" that makes all your units WS +3 and -2 BS at the beginning of your turn, now that has turned the table. You are now hitting on 3+ which doesn't matter as you will be unlikely to get past their 2+ armour (but you still have roughly 20 attacks with 13 roughly hitting), but that isn't the point as the Terminators will be hitting on 6+? (maybe 5+), so statistically only possible one hit will go through losing one guy. But your weapons are now AP 2, you have a higher Initiative and still have 3 attacks each making 12 attacks. Now you are out numbering them in hits, speed and you ignore their armour making them go to 5+. Also you could play another WS "order", maybe just +1. And now the Terminators are .
Warning you may suffer shooting doing this tactic! However if you did multi charges this will show that Ruststalkers and Infiltrators can be very effective at combat and can take on many elite combat units quite happily and come out top, especially with the infiltrator's debuff (-1 WS/BS/I/Ld) that with their formation gets boosted from 6 inches to 12!
Just saying that are not quite as weak at combat as you may think.
I just really hope those terminators didn't take a Heavy Flamer... otherwise were down 6+ 5++, a 4+ if you spent the 10 points on the conversion field, but even then you have to take that blind test. The overwatch is gonna suck.
The army has a ton of weaknesses, but makes a good ally choice.
Skitarii have lackluster long ranged anti tank, and needs to close to do damage
Skitarii have lackluster long ranged anti infantry and need to close to do damage, although they can take pot shots with rangers, mighty inefficient for AP4 bolters.
Skitarii lack decent combat units. The rustalkers wont be around long enough to get AP2 on all hits. Any decent combat unit will wipe the floor with them.
The army lacks staying power and is particularly vulnerable to Str6 AP4, even worse with ignores cover. There is a lot of Str6 AP4 going around in this meta.
The army wants to close into midrange but then needs to stay at arms length lest they get swept in combat.
I would say that the ruststalkers could survive 1 round to do a lot of damage. Example scenario, 5 rustalkers charge 5 terminators: each are WS 4 so they are hitting on 4+ each, ruststalkers have 4 attacks each (2 base, 1 charge, 1 for 2 melee weapons) and terminators 1. You have been planning this and pull out the "order" that makes all your units WS +3 and -2 BS at the beginning of your turn, now that has turned the table. You are now hitting on 3+ which doesn't matter as you will be unlikely to get past their 2+ armour (but you still have roughly 20 attacks with 13 roughly hitting), but that isn't the point as the Terminators will be hitting on 6+? (maybe 5+), so statistically only possible one hit will go through losing one guy. But your weapons are now AP 2, you have a higher Initiative and still have 3 attacks each making 12 attacks. Now you are out numbering them in hits, speed and you ignore their armour making them go to 5+. Also you could play another WS "order", maybe just +1. And now the Terminators are .
Warning you may suffer shooting doing this tactic! However if you did multi charges this will show that Ruststalkers and Infiltrators can be very effective at combat and can take on many elite combat units quite happily and come out top, especially with the infiltrator's debuff (-1 WS/BS/I/Ld) that with their formation gets boosted from 6 inches to 12!
Terminators have 2 attacks base, and WS4 hits up to WS8 on 4+.
Your ruststalkers strike with 20 attacks and will end up putting down 2 terminators. But then the 3 remaining termites get 6 attacks and kill 3 rustalkers, who lose combat by 4(2 wound each). Likely fail their leadership check and run.
That's standard Tac Terminators which no one takes, what about Terminators with lightning claws, or power mauls? It only gets worse. What about the losses those ruststalkers take getting into combat. Fast as they are, they are gonna take some fire like any 200pt assault unit with T3 and a 4+ save will.
Bring infilatrators and get the -1WS debuff and things get a little better. Also the infiltrators can bring their own shooting and attacks to the fore, but then you are investing twice as many points. Most things can win with twice as many points.
Dam (don't have rulebook on me), still has some potential if they have their warlord near by with the trait that give them rerolls on leadership (have to be lucky!). They do have a 6+ invun (won't do much but at least it is there) and there is the upgrade for the serg to have a 4+ invun so you could try and stick him upfront to try and soak up some wounds with his upgrade. But I will agree that you if there are lighting claws you will want to be careful of who you target.
Now with there speed I would be wanting to move them into cover and flank as it would be stupid moving them in the open and try and get a 4+ cover save. Also infiltrators are 200 roughly and Ruststalkers are about 160 so the upgrade isn't that big and that is with some upgrades on them.
Although they may not be the most effective on MEQ lists (still wouldn't want them hanging around) I would say they are most effective on Orks and Tyranids with the high number of attacks. This being said I would say their role is not upfront close combat killing like terminators do but more focusing on the weak with their speed going through difficult terrain and chasing down units and that they are a much more tactical unit than others.
One thing that I think is worth noting is their non-combat role. They are fast, sure they aren't Eldar jetbikes, but they are fast in an edition that favors mobility. With the 9 inch move, +3 to run, and buffs that allow for moving through terrain more easily they can make for decent objective grabbers, and aren't all that expensive. Might be able to compete with a SM bike squad, might not. Infiltrate on the infiltrators helps a bit with this too. I really don't think these guys shine with simply charging into combat to kill things. They feel like more of fast utility guys, they really cannot take much punishment. Maybe those players trying to use MSU fast objective scoring units like small podded marine squads, scouts, and even jetbikes if they move too close is the main target for these units.
I think you are right in the fact that we are looking with a very narrow view of them and that we need to see each unit as a whole and that is an extremely good point about them being quick objective holders. Good with holding their own against non-combat orientated units but that they shine better as a quick objective holder, Infiltrators are going to be better than Ruststalkers due to having a range attack.
TanksForTheWin wrote: I think you are right in the fact that we are looking with a very narrow view of them and that we need to see each unit as a whole and that is an extremely good point about them being quick objective holders. Good with holding their own against non-combat orientated units but that they shine better as a quick objective holder, Infiltrators are going to be better than Ruststalkers due to having a range attack.
I think their combat use might be limited to going after shooty units, like devistators.
The Ruststalkers have haywire grenades and they are cheaper. Not a total win for the infiltrators.
Im going to run 5 of each for gaks and giggles. Gives me the option of running them together and trying to accomplish something or sending them up as a distraction. I dont expect much though. 10T3 4+/6++/5+ FNP wounds wont get you far, I played DE and know all too well.
Exergy wrote: The army has a ton of weaknesses, but makes a good ally choice.
Skitarii have lackluster long ranged anti tank, and needs to close to do damage
Skitarii have lackluster long ranged anti infantry and need to close to do damage, although they can take pot shots with rangers, mighty inefficient for AP4 bolters.
Skitarii lack decent combat units. The rustalkers wont be around long enough to get AP2 on all hits. Any decent combat unit will wipe the floor with them.
The army lacks staying power and is particularly vulnerable to Str6 AP4, even worse with ignores cover. There is a lot of Str6 AP4 going around in this meta.
The army wants to close into midrange but then needs to stay at arms length lest they get swept in combat.
I wouldn't necessarily say that Skitarii have lackluster long-range anti-armor, as Neutron Lasers are 48" S10/AP1, which is quite nice.
TanksForTheWin wrote: I think you are right in the fact that we are looking with a very narrow view of them and that we need to see each unit as a whole and that is an extremely good point about them being quick objective holders. Good with holding their own against non-combat orientated units but that they shine better as a quick objective holder, Infiltrators are going to be better than Ruststalkers due to having a range attack.
I think their combat use might be limited to going after shooty units, like devistators.
The Ruststalkers have haywire grenades and they are cheaper. Not a total win for the infiltrators.
Im going to run 5 of each for gaks and giggles. Gives me the option of running them together and trying to accomplish something or sending them up as a distraction. I dont expect much though. 10T3 4+/6++/5+ FNP wounds wont get you far, I played DE and know all too well.
Infiltrators should actually be trying to generally stay out of combat, so that their mobility can be used to get their debuff aura into the best place to debuff things. Ruststalkers also have a great potential for a Turn 2 charge against a vehicle that they will wreck. Infiltrators can actually pull of a similar trick if armed with Taser Goads (mass S6 strikes will wreck AV10 rear armor pretty quickly), but Ruststalkers can crack anything with AV12 rear armor or better, thanks to Haywire grenades.
TBH it's starting to look like Ruststalkers actually look a little bit poorer; Infiltrators with Taser Goads can pretty reliably murderize backfield heavy weapon units, even if they can't charge at initiative through cover, plus Infiltrators can, well, Infiltrate up the board. There aren't a lot of vehicles that the big pile of S6 strikes won't kill, and most of them are Walkers, which you probably don't want Infiltrators in combat with anyways.
I think the skitarii work best as a flanking army
Combine that with creed's tactical genius (or is it now an AM/IG warlord trait?)
And you have a winner
Have a pack of dragoons come in from behind the enemy wouldbe VERY distracting
Or ruststalkers with the haywire grenades
Exergy wrote: The army has a ton of weaknesses, but makes a good ally choice.
Skitarii have lackluster long ranged anti tank, and needs to close to do damage
Skitarii have lackluster long ranged anti infantry and need to close to do damage, although they can take pot shots with rangers, mighty inefficient for AP4 bolters.
Skitarii lack decent combat units. The rustalkers wont be around long enough to get AP2 on all hits. Any decent combat unit will wipe the floor with them.
The army lacks staying power and is particularly vulnerable to Str6 AP4, even worse with ignores cover. There is a lot of Str6 AP4 going around in this meta.
The army wants to close into midrange but then needs to stay at arms length lest they get swept in combat.
I wouldn't necessarily say that Skitarii have lackluster long-range anti-armor, as Neutron Lasers are 48" S10/AP1, which is quite nice.
yes, a S10 AP1 blast that always hits sounds really nice. I'm waiting to see that it actually exists and how much it costs before passing judgement on it. I imagine it will be expensive.
TanksForTheWin wrote: I think you are right in the fact that we are looking with a very narrow view of them and that we need to see each unit as a whole and that is an extremely good point about them being quick objective holders. Good with holding their own against non-combat orientated units but that they shine better as a quick objective holder, Infiltrators are going to be better than Ruststalkers due to having a range attack.
I think their combat use might be limited to going after shooty units, like devistators.
The Ruststalkers have haywire grenades and they are cheaper. Not a total win for the infiltrators.
Im going to run 5 of each for gaks and giggles. Gives me the option of running them together and trying to accomplish something or sending them up as a distraction. I dont expect much though. 10T3 4+/6++/5+ FNP wounds wont get you far, I played DE and know all too well.
Infiltrators should actually be trying to generally stay out of combat, so that their mobility can be used to get their debuff aura into the best place to debuff things. Ruststalkers also have a great potential for a Turn 2 charge against a vehicle that they will wreck. Infiltrators can actually pull of a similar trick if armed with Taser Goads (mass S6 strikes will wreck AV10 rear armor pretty quickly), but Ruststalkers can crack anything with AV12 rear armor or better, thanks to Haywire grenades.
TBH it's starting to look like Ruststalkers actually look a little bit poorer; Infiltrators with Taser Goads can pretty reliably murderize backfield heavy weapon units, even if they can't charge at initiative through cover, plus Infiltrators can, well, Infiltrate up the board. There aren't a lot of vehicles that the big pile of S6 strikes won't kill, and most of them are Walkers, which you probably don't want Infiltrators in combat with anyways.
yeah I think the infiltrators are better, those taser goads are really nice. Still effective in CC even if you are using +BS -WS. Lots of attacks with the pistol and the charge and hopefully murder things. The Ruststalkers are the ones that look lackluster for me, but I was just saying they both seem to have their place.
Exergy wrote: The army has a ton of weaknesses, but makes a good ally choice.
Skitarii have lackluster long ranged anti tank, and needs to close to do damage
Skitarii have lackluster long ranged anti infantry and need to close to do damage, although they can take pot shots with rangers, mighty inefficient for AP4 bolters.
Skitarii lack decent combat units. The rustalkers wont be around long enough to get AP2 on all hits. Any decent combat unit will wipe the floor with them.
The army lacks staying power and is particularly vulnerable to Str6 AP4, even worse with ignores cover. There is a lot of Str6 AP4 going around in this meta.
The army wants to close into midrange but then needs to stay at arms length lest they get swept in combat.
I wouldn't necessarily say that Skitarii have lackluster long-range anti-armor, as Neutron Lasers are 48" S10/AP1, which is quite nice.
yes, a S10 AP1 blast that always hits sounds really nice. I'm waiting to see that it actually exists and how much it costs before passing judgement on it. I imagine it will be expensive.
TanksForTheWin wrote: I think you are right in the fact that we are looking with a very narrow view of them and that we need to see each unit as a whole and that is an extremely good point about them being quick objective holders. Good with holding their own against non-combat orientated units but that they shine better as a quick objective holder, Infiltrators are going to be better than Ruststalkers due to having a range attack.
I think their combat use might be limited to going after shooty units, like devistators.
The Ruststalkers have haywire grenades and they are cheaper. Not a total win for the infiltrators.
Im going to run 5 of each for gaks and giggles. Gives me the option of running them together and trying to accomplish something or sending them up as a distraction. I dont expect much though. 10T3 4+/6++/5+ FNP wounds wont get you far, I played DE and know all too well.
Infiltrators should actually be trying to generally stay out of combat, so that their mobility can be used to get their debuff aura into the best place to debuff things. Ruststalkers also have a great potential for a Turn 2 charge against a vehicle that they will wreck. Infiltrators can actually pull of a similar trick if armed with Taser Goads (mass S6 strikes will wreck AV10 rear armor pretty quickly), but Ruststalkers can crack anything with AV12 rear armor or better, thanks to Haywire grenades.
TBH it's starting to look like Ruststalkers actually look a little bit poorer; Infiltrators with Taser Goads can pretty reliably murderize backfield heavy weapon units, even if they can't charge at initiative through cover, plus Infiltrators can, well, Infiltrate up the board. There aren't a lot of vehicles that the big pile of S6 strikes won't kill, and most of them are Walkers, which you probably don't want Infiltrators in combat with anyways.
yeah I think the infiltrators are better, those taser goads are really nice. Still effective in CC even if you are using +BS -WS. Lots of attacks with the pistol and the charge and hopefully murder things. The Ruststalkers are the ones that look lackluster for me, but I was just saying they both seem to have their place.
Hope this is allowed, dont want to get in trouble.
It makes sense with the fluff presented in the White Dwarf and Codex about how the Mechanicus works. They don't want to put their Magos/Tech Priest commanders in harms way when they could easily command remotely.
I don't see having No HQ as a detriment for them. In a fluff point of view, I never like putting my Commandig Officers in te Line of Fire.
My Ork Warboss has actually never appeared In a game. Otherwise if he died the entire Waaagh would collapse based on the fluff.
DontEatRawHagis wrote: It makes sense with the fluff presented in the White Dwarf and Codex about how the Mechanicus works. They don't want to put their Magos/Tech Priest commanders in harms way when they could easily command remotely.
I don't see having No HQ as a detriment for them. In a fluff point of view, I never like putting my Commandig Officers in te Line of Fire.
My Ork Warboss has actually never appeared In a game. Otherwise if he died the entire Waaagh would collapse based on the fluff.
Although several pics in the Codex do in fact have a Tech Priest leading from the front I think its a wasted opportunity.
DontEatRawHagis wrote: It makes sense with the fluff presented in the White Dwarf and Codex about how the Mechanicus works. They don't want to put their Magos/Tech Priest commanders in harms way when they could easily command remotely.
I don't see having No HQ as a detriment for them. In a fluff point of view, I never like putting my Commandig Officers in te Line of Fire.
My Ork Warboss has actually never appeared In a game. Otherwise if he died the entire Waaagh would collapse based on the fluff.
This is what I was saying about in the N&R thread about how it is like YOU are the magos controlling your forces from afar Coming in two weeks, magos robes and masks to make yourself in to the HQ!
The only downside is that a skitarii can never get objective secured, as they can never provide the HQ necessary to complete the detachments in the BRB
Purifier wrote: The only downside is that a skitarii can never get objective secured, as they can never provide the HQ necessary to complete the detachments in the BRB
the benifits of their unique detachment more then make up for it
Purifier wrote: The only downside is that a skitarii can never get objective secured, as they can never provide the HQ necessary to complete the detachments in the BRB
Maybe the Sktarii FOC can give that... Got to pick up the dex...
Purifier wrote: The only downside is that a skitarii can never get objective secured, as they can never provide the HQ necessary to complete the detachments in the BRB
Maybe the Sktarii FOC can give that... Got to pick up the dex...
Nah, doesn't have it, but the FOC is still pretty sick. It's nice that the FOC actually gives the Warlord something too, specifically, since your Skitarii warlord is technically just a sergeant, he needs every little bonus he can get.
Purifier wrote: The only downside is that a skitarii can never get objective secured, as they can never provide the HQ necessary to complete the detachments in the BRB
Maybe the Sktarii FOC can give that... Got to pick up the dex...
Nah, doesn't have it, but the FOC is still pretty sick. It's nice that the FOC actually gives the Warlord something too, specifically, since your Skitarii warlord is technically just a sergeant, he needs every little bonus he can get.
Purifier wrote: The only downside is that a skitarii can never get objective secured, as they can never provide the HQ necessary to complete the detachments in the BRB
Purifier wrote: The only downside is that a skitarii can never get objective secured, as they can never provide the HQ necessary to complete the detachments in the BRB
I was wrong. Disregard.
Still, as said before, the dex gives the Skitarii all the goodies it needs.
jumping galaxy wrote: The rules are nice,rangers' gun can now take the best troop's
gun from the fire warrior
but the models....well,the walkers are quite...stupid....
jumping galaxy wrote: The rules are nice,rangers' gun can now take the best troop's
gun from the fire warrior
but the models....well,the walkers are quite...stupid....
I disagree. I loved the chickens from the first time I saw them, and built my new army around 8 of them, and the crabs have really grown on me.
The Rangers also look amazing, and the Vanguard are almost as good.
Sicarians and Ruststalkers are pretty nifty, but I'm not as fond of them as I am of the rest. I have a big unit of 10 Sicarians as my Warlord unit, but I'm gonna leave off the Ruststalkers. Of course, with the limited amount of troops in the book, the stalkers are the ONLY unit I'm not using in my army, and you know what? I don't feel like I'm taking anything that's not worth taking.
The codex is limited to say the least, but every single unit is viable. I really like this Codex.
I want more Skitarii and I want whoever wrote this 'dex to get to do more.
I know, I know, we're getting more admech, but honestly, I don't want admech. I want Skitarii specifically.
jumping galaxy wrote: The rules are nice,rangers' gun can now take the best troop's
gun from the fire warrior
but the models....well,the walkers are quite...stupid....
I disagree. I loved the chickens from the first time I saw them, and built my new army around 8 of them, and the crabs have really grown on me.
The Rangers also look amazing, and the Vanguard are almost as good.
Sicarians and Ruststalkers are pretty nifty, but I'm not as fond of them as I am of the rest. I have a big unit of 10 Sicarians as my Warlord unit, but I'm gonna leave off the Ruststalkers. Of course, with the limited amount of troops in the book, the stalkers are the ONLY unit I'm not using in my army, and you know what? I don't feel like I'm taking anything that's not worth taking.
The codex is limited to say the least, but every single unit is viable. I really like this Codex.
I want more Skitarii and I want whoever wrote this 'dex to get to do more.
I know, I know, we're getting more admech, but honestly, I don't want admech. I want Skitarii specifically.
I disagree. I loved the chickens from the first time I saw them, and built my new army around 8 of them, and the crabs have really grown on me.
The Rangers also look amazing, and the Vanguard are almost as good.
You know, this is one of the coolest things about the Skitarri. Even if you hate the models, SOME people absolutely identify with them. Which is fantastic -- not every new Imperium infantry model should look like an army regular or football player with a bolt gun
lliu wrote: What about the Eldar? Do you like them?
The models? I've always liked the Eldar models. Jetbikes specifically, and the Harlequins in particular. I'm not sure how that relates to the topic, though.
I'm a bit unsure about the 1st warlord trait. Eternal Warrior is nice but on a 2 wound model it seems a bit useless. Maybe if it was Eternal Warrior and +1 Wound.
I was just assembling my first box of Skitarii. Damn, the things are fiddly. VERY fiddly. Beyond Dark Eldar levels of fiddly, it's DKOK-grade fiddlyness we're talking here.
Also, they seem a bit smaller and better proportioned than the average melon-headed Cadian. In all, a beautiful kit, just not something I'd recommend to beginners.
DontEatRawHagis wrote: I'm a bit unsure about the 1st warlord trait. Eternal Warrior is nice but on a 2 wound model it seems a bit useless. Maybe if it was Eternal Warrior and +1 Wound.
But also T3, and it's nice to at least get those two wounds, you know? Everyone and their mother in a challenge has S6.
Agent_Tremolo wrote: I was just assembling my first box of Skitarii. Damn, the things are fiddly. VERY fiddly. Beyond Dark Eldar levels of fiddly, it's DKOK-grade fiddlyness we're talking here.
Also, they seem a bit smaller and better proportioned than the average melon-headed Cadian. In all, a beautiful kit, just not something I'd recommend to beginners.
Fiddly is being nice. They take about 20 times longer than a space marine to assemble.
They're not smaller, but they are better proprtioned. I'd go as far as to say they're bigger than cadians, which is what makes their proportions better.
They stand as tall (if not a tiny fraction taller) than a space marine tac squad member. That insinuates enormous height. Remember a tac squad member is not only a huge guy, he's wearing thick armour as well.
My theory: I don't think they were "better proportioned" on purpose... I think they were sculpted to emphasize their machine nature and that compared to heroic scale humans these guys are intentionally freaky. The fact that they look more normal in heroic scale just goes to show how inhuman their proportions are.
aka_mythos wrote: My theory: I don't think they were "better proportioned" on purpose... I think they were sculpted to emphasize their machine nature and that compared to heroic scale humans these guys are intentionally freaky. The fact that they look more normal in heroic scale just goes to show how inhuman their proportions are.
Thing is, Vanguard and Ranger-type Skitarii are just people. People that have had their lower legs severed and replaced with titanium legs, granted, and sure they have a few mech replacements, but these guys are fairly raw meat, as far as admech enhancements goes. They're just normal people stripped of emotions and with an absolute faith in the Omnisiah. It is a great honour for them to have parts replaced with mech parts, but they don't just start off fully kitted. They have to survive for a while to get to that point.
lliu wrote: How fiddly? Do you need green stuff to hold it in place?
Nah, you can handle it without. They have some tiny left arms that need to be adjusted. If your fingers are big, I can see that being fiddly.
My gripe is mostly that they are practically mono pose, so it matters a lot that you get the right parts for the specific models, which are of course scattered across the frames. So most of my time was with trying to find the parts I needed for each individual model.
lliu wrote: For SKitarii, what are the heavy support?
Onager Dunecrawlers(They can be taken as just 1 or a full squadron of 3)
Ironstrider Ballistarii(Can be taken as just 1 Ironstrider or a full squadron of 6)
I'm tempted to pick up the Skitarri or at least a crab tank. Reminds me of the ice tanks on a show you might have all forgotten called War Planets/Shadow Raiders.
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