Got the codex but not seeing any HQ choices. Am I reading right that they dont have them?
Loving the short/medium range guns and all the special abilities. My guard cant wait to have them as allies

 EVIL INC wrote:
Got the codex but not seeing any HQ choices. Am I reading right that they dont have them?

That appears to be the case, yes.

Correct - you are either going to have to run them using 1 of their formations or is the skitarii specific detachment

Remarkably, there isn't all the hate we saw when the same thing happened with the Harlequins

Edit: I'm not sure that made sense. I mean, people don't seem to have reacted as badly to Skitarii not having HQs as they did with Harlequins not having HQs.

Not having HQ choices doesn't really matter since pretty much anybody can be your Warlord.

 Talys wrote:
Remarkably, there isn't all the hate we saw when the same thing happened with the Harlequins

Edit: I'm not sure that made sense. I mean, people don't seem to have reacted as badly to Skitarii not having HQs as they did with Harlequins not having HQs.

There was still quite a bit in the rumour thread.

There are also far less restrictions for skitarii detachments so the minimums required are easier to deal with and less of a tax

 Talys wrote:
Remarkably, there isn't all the hate we saw when the same thing happened with the Harlequins

Edit: I'm not sure that made sense. I mean, people don't seem to have reacted as badly to Skitarii not having HQs as they did with Harlequins not having HQs.

Largely because the minimum requirement for bringing in the Skitarii detachment is 2 5-man Troop squads, which can be built for a single kit. This then unlocks 2FA, 6 more Troops, 4HS and 3 Elites, so the 'tax' to get what you want it pretty minimal.

Compare that to Harlies, where your only options are confused/limited formations or a minimum requirement that is far larger: 3 boxes of Troops, 2FA and 1 HS before you can even look at adding more.

As an Unbound-happy player this doesn't bother me so much, but I can see how it would, and why it's much easier to add Bound Skitarii than Harlies.

 Talys wrote:
Remarkably, there isn't all the hate we saw when the same thing happened with the Harlequins

Edit: I'm not sure that made sense. I mean, people don't seem to have reacted as badly to Skitarii not having HQs as they did with Harlequins not having HQs.

It's not as much of a surprise the second time around.

 insaniak wrote:

 Talys wrote:
Remarkably, there isn't all the hate we saw when the same thing happened with the Harlequins

Edit: I'm not sure that made sense. I mean, people don't seem to have reacted as badly to Skitarii not having HQs as they did with Harlequins not having HQs.

It's not as much of a surprise the second time around.

Just as disappointing though!

Hqs are mostly a tax any way, as you usually have to invest lots of points into them to make them effective. I would much prefer to take another troops choice instead; especially with all their sergeants having 2 wounds and cheap access to invulnerability saves.

 Vespid wrote:
Hqs are mostly a tax any way, as you usually have to invest lots of points into them to make them effective.

That's long been an issue with GW's games design. Different HQ options for every army should have a direct impact on how the army functions on the table, rather than just being another unit option from a different part of the list.

The Harlequins detachment forced three 95pt Troops, two Fast Attack and a Heavy Support if you wanted to take a Solitaire and multiple Shadowseers in a Battleforged army. The Formatuon that allowed those three models (that Death Jester too) is a friggin joke, banning the models from joining squads. Two models worth taking, the seer is fragile as wet rice paper and the two ways to take them are give your opponent 1st Blood or spend 500+ points on three squads, transports or bikes and some friggin gun boat.

Skitarii Detachment is two Troops, the rest is optional. That's a 110pt 'tax' that is actually good enough to take. No HQ needed when it's as simple as that. The 'hate' was mostly people worried it would be another 'spend most of your army points if you want to use of these' or just people wanting a Tech Priest model specifically.

It also helps that people are now remembering that you can make a warlord out of any Character in an army list thanks to Harlequins.

Even if it's baffling neither have HQ's, Great Harlequins didn't stop being a thing.

Though I suppose Skitarii could be sent messages from afar by tech priests.

 EVIL INC wrote:
Got the codex but not seeing any HQ choices. Am I reading right that they dont have them?
Loving the short/medium range guns and all the special abilities. My guard cant wait to have them as allies

If you are paying attention to the redirect link "rumours" there is another book coming called Cult Mechanicus with electro-priests and data cards. Basically its codex: Skitarii HQ, which fits in line with GWs multi-book split content trend they've been on


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:
It also helps that people are now remembering that you can make a warlord out of any Character in an army list thanks to Harlequins.

Even if it's baffling neither have HQ's, Great Harlequins didn't stop being a thing.

Though I suppose Skitarii could be sent messages from afar by tech priests.

To be honest it almost feels its GW continuing to give the finger to tournaments. "Oh you have a 2 source limit? How about an army of formations?" "Oh you have your own forge org and or percentages? Real shame if we made HQ or troopless books" "Oh no lords of war? That's cool, imperial knights are their own battlefield role." It really seems they are doing everything in their power to dash apart the tournament systems, which goes in line with what they are doing with the whole "We sell collectibles" thing despite it being an excuse to sell plastic way above its worth. Rick Priestley even said in a recent interview that they have completely abandoned the game. And really the game doesn't work in its unrestricted unfiltered format.

That might be the dumbest decision they've ever made, and that's saying a lot. The tournament players are the ones spending the most money to keep their armies updated and even switch factions just for a certain tournament. Also, you can play a casual game with a tournament ruleset without any problems. Playing a tournament game with a casual ruleset is much more difficult. Everyone benefits from a tight, balanced and consistent ruleset. I was planning on spending tons of money on ad mech...if they did them properly. Of course they had to screw up a great idea with terrible execution once again. Robocop imperial guardsmen, mechanized chickens, no HQ and some weird spider that looks like a transformers reject weren't quite what I had in mind. To see how mechanicum looks when done properly, check out the archmagos, castellax, vorax and thanatar over at forge world.

What are you guys talking about? I have the new codex as well and I found the HQ section easy enough... Here, here is a picture of the new Mechanicum HQ Choice.

 Talys wrote:
Remarkably, there isn't all the hate we saw when the same thing happened with the Harlequins

Edit: I'm not sure that made sense. I mean, people don't seem to have reacted as badly to Skitarii not having HQs as they did with Harlequins not having HQs.

Thats because the cheapest harlequin detachment is over 100$ of models and you get no choice as to which ones, and the Harlequins are a cc focused army so your warlord is going to be getting all up in everyone's business and he's nothing but a glorified sergeant (standard +1ws+1bs+1wound over normal model....so T3 5++ is all he's got). And the only model who might be semi-worthwhile to get as a warlord, just as insult to injury...doesn't get a trait if you choose him as the warlord. Because screw you. your ONLY options for warlords who get traits are all T3 W2 5++ squishy squashy bodies. Its right in his special rules.

The skiitari can at the very least make their Sergeantlord the guy sitting at the back firing the 2 60" sniper weapons, and their CAD detachment is "Get one 40$ box of skiitari. You've got a skiitari detachment! Oh also take as much of the other stuff as you want btw have fun!" while the Harlequin CAD detachment (this is the lenient one) is "Three mandatory troops (3x 40$), 2 mandatory fast attack (2x 50$) 1 mandatory EXTREMELY gakky heavy support (1x50$ and the most painful purchase you'll ever make) and now the only optional thing you have is 7x elites."

Their CAD Detachment has SIX MANDATORY SLOTS. the skiitari one is TWO, and they're 5-man minimum squads with a 10-man troop box.

That contains the full rules of that troop so you dont have to buy a codex if you know you've got a detachment.

This is why skiitari players are happy and harlequin players are pissed off.

While no HQ is surprising, they could have done a lot with techpriests, its more shocking they don't have a LOW slot. I mean, come on! Skitarii are the bubble wrap for Titans!

I really wish the Space Marine codex had a FAQ of some kind so I could run a MoTF as a Magos HQ and still get Fast Attack Drop Pods. Now I have to settle for a Blood Angels Techmarine which has a worse statline than the MotF and even has less wounds than a Skitarii Alpha.

 Grey Templar wrote:
While no HQ is surprising, they could have done a lot with techpriests, its more shocking they don't have a LOW slot. I mean, come on! Skitarii are the bubble wrap for Titans!

ya and I think most people won't object to tossing a single titan on the table as technicly unbound. I mean if anyone challanges just point out that if it was a LOW technicly it'd have scout and crusader.

From the listing in the codex, they just didnt have the option saying you could run them as an army unto itself, only it had different min requirements than normal armies in that they didnt require an hq. What I get out of that is that you can run them as a detatchment or as a formation but that you can also have them as your basic core army.
Of course, I can see them struggling by themselves without "backup".
Edit: That was based on the first skim through. Now seeing that definately they dont have an hq. Wondering how players will accept 4 elite slots and 4 heavy slots at the cost of a single fast attack slot. Cant wait to see how this plays out and to have time to do a serious read through and decide what is the coolest stuff that will go well with my guad. Although I can feel the machines drawing me into a mechanicum army. My wallet is dreading the upcoming full cult mechanicus codex.....


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I too was expecting tech piests. They COULD have done a lot with them. Heck, not even a basic one is available. hmmmm

If people are willing to homebrew a little, you could insert some of the HQs from the 30K AdMech army.

I'm pretty positive we're just getting another Codex: Militarum Tempestus situation again, where the other book will contain pretty much everything. Although at least this time around, GW managed to price the Skitarii book a little more fairly...

But now that I'm thinking about it, it seems the goal might be to sell two rulebooks for one overall army (should the Skitarii book have things the AM book does not), effectively moving the cost of rules for one army from $50 up to $70 (without the whole being "forced" to buy it argument).

Well, I'm not that plussed about it right now, although I was hoping GW had learned a lesson from the C:MT days.

The lower price was the deciding factor for me. But beyond that, i am expecting another tempestus thing. i never got that one due to price but I'm thinking that at least the skitarii seem to be a lil better in terms of effectiveness.
Note, if they were to lower the price on the tempestus, I might be tempted to get it after all...

The Harlequin detachment is pretty restrictive, but if you want to ally them in for specific models, you certainly can. They even made a formation to allow you to just run want the eldar and dark eldar had access to before, so you didn't even have to but any new models. Also, the troupe masters have a 2+ look out sir, and an option for a 3+ invuln save just for running in the shooting phase (which you should always be doing) that goes a long way towards survivability. Their primaris ability for phantasmancy makes you IMMUNE to shots form over 24" away.

I've been playing them almost weekly since they released the white dwarfs with their stats, they are surprisingly strong, and more flexible than you would think.

 EVIL INC wrote:
The lower price was the deciding factor for me. But beyond that, i am expecting another tempestus thing. i never got that one due to price but I'm thinking that at least the skitarii seem to be a lil better in terms of effectiveness.
Note, if they were to lower the price on the tempestus, I might be tempted to get it after all...

Yeah, I agree that C:MT should have been priced more like the Skitarii book. IMO, if they dropped the core rulebooks back to $40 and these supplement size books to $25-30, and then offered competitive-pricing for the online-versions of the codexes, I doubt you would see much in the way of complaints via rules. Heck, the accelerated rules cycle would probably be much less of a topic as well.

I sure know I'd pick up this Skitarii book if it was in that $25-30 range. But with the knowledge that there's another book to come (which will probably be almost entirely superior to this book), I'm not so keen on just dumping the $35. So I say good step forward, and hopefully it's a sign of positive moment.

Thinking on it...
I can understand the no hq to a degree....
1. The use of tech priests might be "stepping on the toes" of the cult codex. Keeping the skitarii as an army would be a way of covering things that the cult doesnt want to send a whole huge lot out. Allows them to mix with other "armies" without giving away too much information or secrets themselves. Maybe as "scouts" to gather information for a later full cult force to tailer needs for. many ways to tie it in, but also I think to reinforce the faceless mechanical image to get away from the "hero" model other armies have for their hq. Skitarrii just dont have enough personality left to be very heroic and arent high enough in the hierarchy to warrent techs to waste their time with.
Although, I still think the addition of "minor functionary" or adepts in training, maybe even adepts in punishment would have been a decent addition.

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:
Though I suppose Skitarii could be sent messages from afar by tech priests.

That's exactly how the codex describes it. The Skitarii land and secure the tech while their masters follow it all from orbit, sending new instructions if necessary. The TechPriests count enemy shots by throwing formation after formation into the battle, then commence the real fight and wipe out all resistance once they have all the variables pinned down.

So is there no wat for skitarri to get objective secured?

 Orock wrote:
So is there no wat for skitarri to get objective secured?

Unless their formations give it to them they can't. Because they can't take a normal Battle Forged list because no HQs.

I'd say their own detachment benifits more then make up for the loss of OS.

Indeed. OS is nice, but as a GK player I don't miss it often.

truthfully both the skitarii and GK detachments are detachments done right. yes they lose OS, but the benifits synergize so nicely with the army that it's not important.

After having a chance to finally sit down and read through the codex today, I think the Skitarii are awesome -- more so for Imperium forces than, say, the Harlequins are for Eldar.

The Doctrina Imperatives are amazing, the Onagers are remakarkably good, the Vanguard are solid units, the formation (Maniple) is extremely flexible. My opinion is that the Skitarii would be great by themselves in low point games, and would make awesome allies in high point games.

I think the Icarus Array is a superb weapon that has great kill potential, and is very effective against both ground and air units; finally Imperial forces get some decent shooters with ignore cover.

 Talys wrote:
After having a chance to finally sit down and read through the codex today, I think the Skitarii are awesome -- more so for Imperium forces than, say, the Harlequins are for Eldar.

The Doctrina Imperatives are amazing, the Onagers are remakarkably good, the Vanguard are solid units, the formation (Maniple) is extremely flexible. My opinion is that the Skitarii would be great by themselves in low point games, and would make awesome allies in high point games.

I think the Icarus Array is a superb weapon that has great kill potential, and is very effective against both ground and air units; finally Imperial forces get some decent shooters with ignore cover.

I think both troops choices are exellent and are going to really work well.

The one and only thing that irks me is the lack of... variety.

There are a grand total of 3 vehicles, with 2 of them on 1 chassis (making it technically 2 in total). and only 2 infantry and 2 elites.

Maybe its just me but the concept of skittari I've always imagined they would have more.... Stuff....

Don't get me wrong, I love the codex and plan to integrate them into my army alongside my legion of tanks with my IG.

Had this crazy idea that my IG have the Armored battlegroup running, with the Skittari running faster moving troops and machines to strike at important targets.

A kind of Hammer and Scalpel series of lists. The faster moving striders, and lethal infantry removing problem units while the Tanks hammer the foe into pieces. Heck, the melee units protecting the tanks would be excellent, or just the lethal firepower of the skittari infantry would be deterrence enough or just outright kill anything foolish enough to attempt to melee my tanks.

None of which would see a tourney or serious game of course. But I think it would be fun to run.

the small number of units I'll forgive from a "it's a start" POV. if the rumors of future expansions are true, we could be looking at this being just the top of the iceberg

There are a grand total of 3 vehicles, with 2 of them on 1 chassis (making it technically 2 in total). and only 2 infantry and 2 elites.

that is more then GK have and that is counting draigo and purifires.

Makumba wrote:

There are a grand total of 3 vehicles, with 2 of them on 1 chassis (making it technically 2 in total). and only 2 infantry and 2 elites.

that is more then GK have and that is counting draigo and purifires.

Grey Knights have more then that.

terminators, NDK, librarian, draigo if run with centurions and purifires. 5 units when run with ally. Mechanicus have 2 good infantry , the rust dudes, the ostrich and the big crab tank . All playable without ally.

BrianDavion wrote:
the small number of units I'll forgive from a "it's a start" POV. if the rumors of future expansions are true, we could be looking at this being just the top of the iceberg

I agree! You gotta start somewhere, and this is a nice beginning. Hopefully we don't have to wait 5 years til the next models, though.

Makumba wrote:
terminators, NDK, librarian, draigo if run with centurions and purifires. 5 units when run with ally. Mechanicus have 2 good infantry , the rust dudes, the ostrich and the big crab tank . All playable without ally.

So 'total units' is now 'total competitive units'?

We don't even know if Skitarii are competitive yet, and from what people have been saying already it's more like "Vanguard, Dragoons and Dunestalkers are kinda competitive; the rest is meh"

BrianDavion wrote:

Makumba wrote:

There are a grand total of 3 vehicles, with 2 of them on 1 chassis (making it technically 2 in total). and only 2 infantry and 2 elites.

that is more then GK have and that is counting draigo and purifires.

Grey Knights have more then that.

The only vehicle which counts is the Storm Raven. You never see Rhinos/Razorbacks or Land Raiders.

 Orock wrote:
So is there no wat for skitarri to get objective secured?

There is no way, yet. Wait for the Cult Mechanicu codex to cone out, with HQs and other units that flesh out the Skitarii.

SJ

I am ok with them not having OS, scout and crusader are pretty nice benefits.

One thing I dont like about the troops choices models is that specific legs go with specific torsos. I found out the hard way that if you put the wrong ones together (even though they may fit), it will leave others that wont fit. Luckily, I was about to get them apart without damaging them and now have them correctly matched.
Just a heads up for those who havnt gotten them yet.
\

 Grey Templar wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

Makumba wrote:

There are a grand total of 3 vehicles, with 2 of them on 1 chassis (making it technically 2 in total). and only 2 infantry and 2 elites.

that is more then GK have and that is counting draigo and purifires.

Grey Knights have more then that.

The only vehicle which counts is the Storm Raven. You never see Rhinos/Razorbacks or Land Raiders.

the biggest problem with Grey Knights is that the NSF tends to emphisise deep striking to a degree that non-deep striking units tend to be seen as less desireable even if they're otherwise really good. a good case in point. Purifiers are pretty bad ass, but you see em a LOT less then you otherwise would because they don't DS

Only Purifiers approach being "really good" though. Strike Squads, Purgation Squads, Interceptor Squads, Dreadnoughts, and all our DTs and Land Raiders are pretty bad within the codex.

It baffles me why we don't have Drop Pods.

 Grey Templar wrote:
Only Purifiers approach being "really good" though. Strike Squads, Purgation Squads, Interceptor Squads, Dreadnoughts, and all our DTs and Land Raiders are pretty bad within the codex.

It baffles me why we don't have Drop Pods.

Because of vast amounts of teleporters?

I'm wondering what you guys think about running these as a main with an inquisition ally.

I'm thinking Ordo Xenos inquisitor, several servitors and valkarye transports/gunships may be nice. That way the inquisitor can be warlord. Thoughts??

I'm curious as to how people are thinking of running Sicarian Kill-Clades.

I've got enough Rangers/Vanguard to be able to field a Skitarii Maniple as an Allied Detachment to my IG--and I bought four boxes of Sicarian yesterday specifically to run a Kill-Clade.

 Vespid wrote:
Hqs are mostly a tax any way, as you usually have to invest lots of points into them to make them effective. I would much prefer to take another troops choice instead; especially with all their sergeants having 2 wounds and cheap access to invulnerability saves.

Crappy HQ's might be a tax, but good ones are force multipliers.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Grey Templar wrote:
Only Purifiers approach being "really good" though. Strike Squads, Purgation Squads, Interceptor Squads, Dreadnoughts, and all our DTs and Land Raiders are pretty bad within the codex.

It baffles me why we don't have Drop Pods.

Because of vast amounts of teleporters?

Yeah, we have teleporters, but the fluff is also full of massed Drop Pod assaults.

 EVIL INC wrote:
One thing I dont like about the troops choices models is that specific legs go with specific torsos. I found out the hard way that if you put the wrong ones together (even though they may fit), it will leave others that wont fit. Luckily, I was about to get them apart without damaging them and now have them correctly matched.
Just a heads up for those who havnt gotten them yet.
\

Good tip! Especially for those of us who are picture-instruction-challenged. Just like Ikea stuff, why can't they tell me not to put A together with B and not C, WITHOUT those really simple instructions that anyone with at least a double digit IQ would understand?!

yeah my biggest issue with the ranger/vanguard kit is it seems to really not be very customization friendly. one ranger squad will, I suspect look much the same as another.

I'm beginning to wonder if maybe I should force myself to learn how to apply decals.

Well, I can see why a lack of custimization is there. After all, the whole mech cult is all about a lack of identity and being interchangable cogs and so forth.

To be honest, Im liking the idea of these as it helps me have options from more imperial troop sources. I already have guard, marines, grey kights (all using the same basic color scheme with only minor variations to assert which force they are from. this also lets me multi purpose models to serve more than one army. Even my tech priest and servitors I already had matched into the theme with only the red being the different part that sets them slightly aside.

I think running them with inquisition might be really cool but wouldnt allow them to "shine" as well as allying them with guard would. Inquisition already has lots of units that are similar and serve similer roles. With the guard, the two armies can cover one another's weaknesses really well.

With the way i tihnk this Codex is i tihnk i will stick with my Legio Cybernetica build to 40k Specs, i don't got much kind of like you guys, Skitarii, but i got a full list including HQ which normally cost me alot points wise to run.

what's the current opinions on special weapon selection on the troops and performance of rangers vs vanguard?

Personally I've been needing some 6man or lower squads for my IG to put in my vendettas and love the look of the mech-dudes. Thinking I'm gonna use these as my new IG allies, pick up a box of troops and some spider tanks

Oh, do the doctrines bonuses to BS affect snap shots? that might make that skyfire array of doom more flexible if it did.

Well. havnt gotten to play them but looking at some of the stuff....

Ranger guns....Not bad for basic weapons better than flashlights and bolters lol. Like the precision shots idea. It could come in handy.

Vangaurd guns.... Actually like these. low strength but lots of shots and I like the rad rule.

Special weapons---
Arc gun....not bad for an anti tank gun. plus the ability to take 3 of them in a squad and rapid fire... could take out a land raider in one turn. very happy. but, that leaves the guns from the rest of the squad useless. Add to that they are rapid fire meaning you then couldnt assault.

arquebus... heavy but with relentless, not an issue. armorbane means there is a small chance of doing damage to light vehicles but less useful than against "guys". strength x is a plus in my opinion and add to that sniper, excellent. Too bad the ap sucks.

the plasma .... I really like this. assault meaning you can then make an assault. 2 shots on the assault is good. very expensive on points though...

On this, 3 per unit is great. When doing this, once of the three having to be the alpha means your faced with a decision on the alpha. Give him a special weapon or give him assault weapons or both if ya want him REALLY expensive.

My mind is getting fuzy and Im not good with words. I'm sure someone better at it will pick it up and do a better job of it.

 Ol'Dirty wrote:
what's the current opinions on special weapon selection on the troops and performance of rangers vs vanguard?

Personally I've been needing some 6man or lower squads for my IG to put in my vendettas and love the look of the mech-dudes. Thinking I'm gonna use these as my new IG allies, pick up a box of troops and some spider tanks

Oh, do the doctrines bonuses to BS affect snap shots? that might make that skyfire array of doom more flexible if it did.

In my opinion rangers and vanguard have the potential to perform well but in different roles. If I were to want a squad to sit back and take long range shots, rangers are pretty solid. However, this isn't what I need them to do so I will likely go with vanguard, to act as short range anti-infantry. They don't have the greatest durability against any dedicated assault troops so ideally they will work in support of my assaulters to soften up tough targets for the heavy hitters. For this reason, I think the plasma calivers will be my go to special weapon. Though, I am a bit concerned about pumping out that many plasma shots. Gets Hot has not been my friend in the past. If they can pull it off though that is some serious devastation potential. The arc rifles are also very good if you want them to focus more on wrecking vehicles. I have other allies for that duty though and passing up those calivers is just too tough to do.

Since snap shots don't have a set modifier number, they just reduce your BS to 1 regardless, I don't believe you can offset this penalty with the imperatives. I've been out for a while and am just now getting back into 40K so I'm a bit rusty on the rules, but this is how I think it would work. Someone else may have a different take however.

Any opinions on the tactical objective deck? Are the Skitarii tactical objectives listed in the codex?

 Talys wrote:

Edit: I'm not sure that made sense. I mean, people don't seem to have reacted as badly to Skitarii not having HQs as they did with Harlequins not having HQs.

Cause eldar are spoilt with their 6-th dex.

the_hanged_man wrote:
Any opinions on the tactical objective deck? Are the Skitarii tactical objectives listed in the codex?

Yes, they have a listing for them. They actually seem good and fluffy.

the_hanged_man wrote:
Any opinions on the tactical objective deck? Are the Skitarii tactical objectives listed in the codex?

Yes, there are six unique tactical objectives listed in the codex. The datacards will likely be fairly useful. Besides the objectives, they will also have the Doctrina Imperatives, which could be helpful in keeping them organized during the game.

The only Tactical Objective I see an issue for them is denying a power.

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:
The only Tactical Objective I see an issue for them is denying a power.

You don't think manifesting one is more problematic?

 Purifier wrote:

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:
The only Tactical Objective I see an issue for them is denying a power.

You don't think manifesting one is more problematic?

I was speaking of their specific tactical objectives, what was it.. A victory for logic?

Also one for mysterious objectives, which most people don't use.

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:

 Purifier wrote:

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:
The only Tactical Objective I see an issue for them is denying a power.

You don't think manifesting one is more problematic?

I was speaking of their specific tactical objectives, what was it.. A victory for logic?

Also one for mysterious objectives, which most people don't use.

I thought basically everyone used the houserule that if you actually cannot complete the objective (under any circumstances.. like getting manifestation of psychic power when you have no psychic powers) you get to reroll it.

 Purifier wrote:


I thought basically everyone used the houserule that if you actually cannot complete the objective (under any circumstances.. like getting manifestation of psychic power when you have no psychic powers) you get to reroll it.

Yeah, I can't recall a game I've played where this was not understood to be the case, even though it's not in the rules.

Picked up the codex, cards and 2 boxes of troops yesterday. Barely skimmed it before cracking open my boxes (as usual). I haven't played a single game of the current or previous edition so I'm a little lost with all the new stuff. Want to build a solid army, not a min-max win at all costs kind of thing, but I would still like to be able to not lose all the time. So what's the "best" loadouts for the rangers and vanguard?

Just for these 2 boxes worth, I was thinking of starting with 1 unit of 6 rangers w/ 2 of those long rifle thingies on the oval base (forget the name) .. then 2 units of 7 vanguards, 1 with 2 plasmas and the other with 2 of that other squarey plasma looking gun.

Or should I try to bump em down to have 4 units of 5? or 2 units of 10? 5 + 5 + 10?

My plans for the army and my wallet is to try and just keep these 2 boxes worth, then get 1-2 boxes of the melee fellas, and then mostly add in lots of walkers after that, cuz I always prefer to build and paint and play with the bigger stuff. So just trying to figure out how to get the best options out of what I got so far.

Im wanting to try to stick with larger units. This to add survivability to the squads and special weapons.

the sniper weapons.... I like them but think they would be best used with 3 in a squad but even so dont see them doing that great against meq type armies due to ap on them.

I plan to get with the plasma to use as teleporting termy hunters but this is mainlyto deal with a local who spams those.

i'm putting phospher pistals on my vanguaalphas along with arc mauls. this way, I hae something to assault a vehicle withfiring it firstinstead of the quads guns can help ainst cover saves for the rest of the squad. Range permitting of course lol.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Question for the alpha...
Do you think it is more worthwhile to give him a special weapon in order to have the 3rd one for the unit or give him a close combat weapon and a pistal choice (im leaning towards the phospher pistol and arc maul) or to go overboard and do both?

I see this book as being what scions should have been for a precursor book. I think that all the units that are our now plus a few extras (an HQ, prob another elite, maybe some sort of artillery, possibly a flyer of some kind, or at least have rules for the forgeworld stuff). However, i predict that the Cult have a much different take on the units. It will likely either have completely different imperatives or even scrap them altogether for something more centered on the HQ and some sort of powers/orders that they use (why else would they have those data links that improve Ld?) additionally, the detachment with scout and crusader, which is super awesome, will not be present outside of allying in from the skitarii book, which will make the skitarii a different style of army to take on their own when compared to the "parent" codex.

So far I like what what I see in the book, they will give me great fun as an ally force, maybe might even let me run a very fun and unique army list. I kinda feel that using the skittari book will make fluffier Scions than the actual scion book! They have better units, better guns, better leadership, and hell, they reflect the unquestioning nature of the scions themselves and are only lacking transports......which can still be taken from using a second Scions CAD!!! I'd say putting vanguard in Taurox Primes would be quite fun and extremely deadly. The only thing they wont get is scout (and seriously, why don't scions have a detachment just like this one?) but you will still be able to bring a lot of mobile firepower to bear, and still have dragoons to keep up and counter assualt anything headed for your troops, plus you can Valkyre in any additional troops.

Also I vote on the Cult book getting something silly like fast rhinos, that way GW gets to sell additional stuff without actually having to make new models.

Skitari look Awesome Im torn between getting some now or waiting to see if the Cult Mechanicus rumors hold water to see about getting into them.

BTW does anyone else kinda want to put Dunecrawler legs on an Imperial Knight?

 EVIL INC wrote:
Ithe sniper weapons.... I like them but think they would be best used with 3 in a squad but even so dont see them doing that great against meq type armies due to ap on them.

They are AP3. You will be killing at least one MEQ a turn at 60", at least until your Ruststalkers and Vangaurd get into it, after that they can support by taking pop-shots at tanks thanks to S4 vs vehicles and armorbane.

I plan I keeping them back line to shoot out meltas, laz, plaz, ect. so my dragoons can stomp out troops

Thoughts on Rangers vs Vanguard for putting in my vendettas? Rangers are 10pts more expensive, but w/ mtc they won't have to worry about the dangerous terrain test if they scatter from a grav chute insertion.

Another quick question to anyone who's opened a box of troops; did gw do that bs where they only put one of each special weapon in the box even though you can have 3 of one in a 10man squad?

 Ol'Dirty wrote:
Thoughts on Rangers vs Vanguard for putting in my vendettas? Rangers are 10pts more expensive, but w/ mtc they won't have to worry about the dangerous terrain test if they scatter from a grav chute insertion.

Another quick question to anyone who's opened a box of troops; did gw do that bs where they only put one of each special weapon in the box even though you can have 3 of one in a 10man squad?

yup only 1 special weapon per box sadly. as for what to put in vendettas it'll depend on what your doing with em. Rangers are a solid backfield sniper unit. whereas vanguard are better at closer ranges. thus if your goal is to drop em in your enemies midst and cause chaos, vanguards are PROABLY the better choice. especially because their rad aura means people may be hesitant to charge them.

Assault 3 is so nice on the calivers, but htey are considerably more expensive than a plasma gun. -1T in combat means theyre still wounding MEQ on 3s, but probably not worth thinking about combat

2x5 man units, 2 calivers and two arcs, in vendettas seems a steal to me.

Except you use a 10man squad for the calivers to get that extra wounds in front of those expensive guns.

For what its worth, you can buy that extra one guy to make 6 for the squad.

What do you guys think of getting chimeras for guard and having these guys hop in on turn one to start an advance? Dont think they can start the game in them.

 EVIL INC wrote:
For what its worth, you can buy that extra one guy to make 6 for the squad.

What do you guys think of getting chimeras for guard and having these guys hop in on turn one to start an advance? Dont think they can start the game in them.

Not a terrible Idea, basically like allying with SM and jacking their rhinos, you can't start inside the vehicle but turn 1 you can all pile in. Hey look the blood angels left this convenient fast rhino for their devastator squad here, be a shame to leave them machine spirit out better take care of it...{Quickly runs off to study the engine}

 Necros wrote:
[reasonable thinking and level headedness]

Yeah, I didn't go the route of level headed thinking. I saw the Cavalier formation and built an 1800p pure skitarii army around it, and then bought all of the models needed for it.

So my pure Skitarii looks like this:

Skitarii Maniple:
9 Infiltrators and an Infiltrator Princeps.
The Princeps runs as the Warlord and is fairly well kitted to handle the role.
All using Flechette and Taser Goads, of course.

9 Vanguard and an Alpha
One carries a Plasma Caliver

9 Vanguard and an Alpha
One carries a Plasma Caliver

9 Rangers and an Alpha
Three carry Arquebuses

3 Dunecrawlers
All have the Neutron Laser/Cognis Heavy Stubber kit and an extra Heavy Stubber. (dual heavy cognis stubbers makes for a painful unit to charge.)
You really want these in a group of 3 to get the 4++ invuln. Gee-dub knows how to sell the worst of their overcosted models. "Want one? Might as well take three, yeah?"

Ironstrider Cavaliers formation:
2 Ballistarii with lascannons

3 Dragoons
each has a Phosphor Serpenta

3 Dragoons
each has a Phosphor Serpenta

Throw some kit on the alphas to round out the points and I ended up right on target.

Is this a competetive army? Not by a long stretch. The Skitarii lack the versatility to be on their own. But I'm a purist at heart. It just feels right to field pure armies. And I think it's gonna be a lot of fun. The Formation for the two units of dragoons and one of ballistari is where my heart is at.

If you want Skitarii to be competitive on their own, I believe you want to basically just run hordes of Vanguard. They are ridiculously undercosted. They can easily outperform Sisters in versatility and they are cheaper to boot, and Sisters aren't a bad horde army in their own right.
Maybe back them up with some Ballistari to punch holes through heavy targets.
The only problem is how much more easy it is to get AP4 than AP3.

Here is a question or two about the Sicarian Ruststalkers:

The base squad has transonic blades, chordclaws, and mindscrambler grenades. The Ruststalker Princeps can also take a prehensile dataspike.

All of the above weapons have a melee profile, and when you make your close combat attacks, all your attacks have to be made with the same weapon. Yet the chordclaw has molecular dissonance- one of it's close combat attacks has the Fleshbane rule.

The Prehensile Dataspike also has a close combat profile, and it allows an attack at I10 in addition to its regular close combat attacks.

So just to be clear, when I attack in close combat with the Ruststalkers, I have to use the transonic blades, OR chordclaws OR dataspike, but not all three, correct? I know there was a bunch of questions about similar wording in the Harlequin Codex and the Harlequin's Kiss.

While I'm testing the list I'm going to run rangers in one vendetta and vanguard in the other. I know I'm going 2 arc rifle on one squad, but I'm not 100% sure about going plasma caster on the other, I kinda wish they had a flamer type option.

Kinda want to find a way to avoid buying another box just for the weapons since I just need the 2 squads of 5 dudes (All my infantry models are in vehicles the way I play my IG atm).

Find someone else and trade bits. Thinking of maybe using the ranger bits on the bodies of cheaper models in greatcoats fom another army. Now to see if I have an unbuilt one of those other models to try it on before getting another 2 boxes of them....

 Tamwulf wrote:
Here is a question or two about the Sicarian Ruststalkers:

The base squad has transonic blades, chordclaws, and mindscrambler grenades. The Ruststalker Princeps can also take a prehensile dataspike.

All of the above weapons have a melee profile, and when you make your close combat attacks, all your attacks have to be made with the same weapon. Yet the chordclaw has molecular dissonance- one of it's close combat attacks has the Fleshbane rule.

The Prehensile Dataspike also has a close combat profile, and it allows an attack at I10 in addition to its regular close combat attacks.

So just to be clear, when I attack in close combat with the Ruststalkers, I have to use the transonic blades, OR chordclaws OR dataspike, but not all three, correct? I know there was a bunch of questions about similar wording in the Harlequin Codex and the Harlequin's Kiss.

That's not the way I understand it. According to the wording you get an additional attack for the dataspike at Initiative 10, then you make you regular attacks. For the chordclaws, you make your close combat attacks as normal, and one of them will have the dissonance rule...meaning that one of your attacks is made with the chordclaw and the others are with your razors. So, yes you use all three, which I realize is not how things have worked traditionally but this is RAW in the codex.

 Gridge wrote:

 Tamwulf wrote:
Here is a question or two about the Sicarian Ruststalkers:

The base squad has transonic blades, chordclaws, and mindscrambler grenades. The Ruststalker Princeps can also take a prehensile dataspike.

All of the above weapons have a melee profile, and when you make your close combat attacks, all your attacks have to be made with the same weapon. Yet the chordclaw has molecular dissonance- one of it's close combat attacks has the Fleshbane rule.

The Prehensile Dataspike also has a close combat profile, and it allows an attack at I10 in addition to its regular close combat attacks.

So just to be clear, when I attack in close combat with the Ruststalkers, I have to use the transonic blades, OR chordclaws OR dataspike, but not all three, correct? I know there was a bunch of questions about similar wording in the Harlequin Codex and the Harlequin's Kiss.

That's not the way I understand it. According to the wording you get an additional attack for the dataspike at Initiative 10, then you make you regular attacks. For the chordclaws, you make your close combat attacks as normal, and one of them will have the dissonance rule...meaning that one of your attacks is made with the chordclaw and the others are with your razors. So, yes you use all three, which I realize is not how things have worked traditionally but this is RAW in the codex.

In Melee you name which weapon you are going to be using before rolling your to-hit. The Dataspike, Cordclaw, and Razors are all close combat weapons and are all viable weapons to use in melee. If you nominate your Dataspike you get your normal attacks and the extra I10 attack. These will all have Haywire and the Dataspike counts as a specialist weapon and follows any restrictions based on that. If you nominate your Cordclaw you get all of your attacks with the exception that one of them must be rolled separately and has fleshbane, all of these attacks have Transonic. If you nominate your Razor you get Transonic only, no extra gimmicks.

Similarly, if you have a Bolt Pistol and a Power Sword you can choose to attack with the Bolt Pistol instead. These attacks are at S User with no AP.

I'm convinced that Ruststalkers are the bee's knees IF you can protect them with an assault vehicle, even if that's a Land Raider. With haywire grenades, Fleshbane, and AP2 they're a threat to literally every unit (except those damn Necron wraiths.) And the Zealot mask is an obvious choice if your squad is larger than 5.

Tell me what I'm missing and why they're actually risky. Is it because they'll always be caught out in the open after ripping up units?

No idea how they perform on the table for me yet. But I've just ordered my first 2 boxes of vanguard/rangers and I cannot wait. Models look great and 'fluffy'. Army rules seem in keeping with their feel and I'm hearing rumours of more Ad Mech to come in 40k later this year. For once, GW leave me smiling with a release

Even thought I have the super shiny codex, for me this army is sitting on the back burner. I have too much other stuff going on right now...and i'm content to wait and see when the other ad mech stuff drops.

It's not helping that as the year goes on the next major rumor release that I will probably HAVE to drop $$$ on is genestealer cult.

I want to run these guys for the next round of kill teams though.

Anyone try Radium Jezail on their Dragoons?

LOL, I put one together with one before realizing I want them in my rangers instead. Relentless means you can still mve and fire it, which would make it ok but then, not being able to assault negates it in my eyes as you want to be the one assaulting.

Wait, what other unit can use the Radium Jezzail? I thought it was Dragoon-only. Or is the same bit used for the jezzail and something else?

Sorry. I got the arquebus and jezzail's names mixed up.

1,024 electro-lashes for blasphemy!

 SisterSydney wrote:
Wait, what other unit can use the Radium Jezzail? I thought it was Dragoon-only. Or is the same bit used for the jezzail and something else?

Right now, I'm only looking to use the skittarri as allies with troops for the fancy guns and crawlers for anti-ait help shooting.
The guy who runs a local shop is going hog crazy wild with the walkers though. With the large numbers of them he is building, he is likely to have a few of them and might tell ya how they work for him.... https://www.facebook.com/ComicKungFu

I'm thinking a couple of Vanguard sniper squads, a squad of three Onagers with a 1 Phospher, 2 Neutrons, all with extra Stubbers, and a solo Onager with Icarus Array and Manipulator, to fill out the points for an AdLance at 1850.

SJ

 jeffersonian000 wrote:
I'm thinking a couple of Vanguard sniper squads, a squad of three Onagers with a 1 Phospher, 2 Neutrons, all with extra Stubbers, and a solo Onager with Icarus Array and Manipulator, to fill out the points for an AdLance at 1850.

SJ

if you're going snipers pay the extra points and go with rangers for the added range to the basic weapons.

BrianDavion wrote:

 jeffersonian000 wrote:
I'm thinking a couple of Vanguard sniper squads, a squad of three Onagers with a 1 Phospher, 2 Neutrons, all with extra Stubbers, and a solo Onager with Icarus Array and Manipulator, to fill out the points for an AdLance at 1850.

SJ

if you're going snipers pay the extra points and go with rangers for the added range to the basic weapons.

Going with Vanguard is to save points.

SJ

But... you're saving two points a model at the cost of having 18" basic guns that will hardly ever be able to hit the same target as the arquebuses. Rangers start with 30" guns, they'll be able to all hit the arquebus target much of the time.

not to mention precision shots in and of themselves which can add to the sniper theme and effects.

From the few games I've seen of these guys thus far (haven't gotten to play against them yet), the army seems to be a little awkward.

In lower points games with smaller boards, they seem to do really very well and the Imperatives seem to flow rather well throughout the game where the Skitarii player is using their high BS straight away and then transitioning to the WS buffs as the game progresses.

The problem is that in larger games, really over 1000pts, the lack of transports or alternate deployment methods just makes the infantry too damn easy to kill, and the army ends up being reliant on spamming the heavy walkers as much as it can instead.

It feels like it was really primarily meant as an allied force or part of a larger codex that just got cut down to half size to make a release date without really being completed.

Havnt seen them in action, but that was my take on it reading through the codex. Lucky for me, thats exactly what I plan on using them for, adding fluffy/cool looking variety to my allies pool for my guard.

Yeah, as allies they appear like they'll be pretty solid and bring some useful abilities and unique look to the table. Just as they're own army they're really only like a third of a codex

axisofentropy wrote:
I'm convinced that Ruststalkers are the bee's knees IF you can protect them with an assault vehicle, even if that's a Land Raider. With haywire grenades, Fleshbane, and AP2 they're a threat to literally every unit (except those damn Necron wraiths.) And the Zealot mask is an obvious choice if your squad is larger than 5.

Tell me what I'm missing and why they're actually risky. Is it because they'll always be caught out in the open after ripping up units?

but they only get AP2 after the survive a round of combat. Any real combat unit is going to wipe the floor with them before they get to use their fancy AP2 weapons. Anything with powermauls can really screw with their day.

They get AP2 in the first round of combat as well, but only on 6s to Wound.

 Vaktathi wrote:
From the few games I've seen of these guys thus far (haven't gotten to play against them yet), the army seems to be a little awkward.

In lower points games with smaller boards, they seem to do really very well and the Imperatives seem to flow rather well throughout the game where the Skitarii player is using their high BS straight away and then transitioning to the WS buffs as the game progresses.

The problem is that in larger games, really over 1000pts, the lack of transports or alternate deployment methods just makes the infantry too damn easy to kill, and the army ends up being reliant on spamming the heavy walkers as much as it can instead.

It feels like it was really primarily meant as an allied force or part of a larger codex that just got cut down to half size to make a release date without really being completed.

Agreed here, a full ally cohort of skitarii typically ends up running me about 1000 points, which is 3 infantry squads, and 2 elites. Right now I really like the sound of allying with the Steel Host formation, as it can really bring the pain and be survivable with AV14, while the Skitarii can bring some versatility.

Aren't they one of the armies of the Imperium? If so then the core rulebook wraps them all up as battle bros. When you make mixed armies that are battle bros then they will share the all rule results as allied units like warlord traits and such. Allies of convenience will treat each other as seperate armies and for the sake of rule implementation their units still fall under the category of enemy as far application of various rules are concerned and not allied units and so won't share the benefits of the primary warlord. To me I think they might be another theme flavoured sub army for the Asra Militarium.

I kinda wish the Skitarii release was where we saw the appearance of Knights, as opposed to their release in their own, individual book. The seem to have a lot of synergy with the army and can shore the army up a bit when you're going up in points.

I've been contemplating a small, 1000pt army with a single knight and the rest of the points dedicated to rangers and walkers.

 Accolade wrote:
I kinda wish the Skitarii release was where we saw the appearance of Knights, as opposed to their release in their own, individual book. The seem to have a lot of synergy with the army and can shore the army up a bit when you're going up in points.

I've been contemplating a small, 1000pt army with a single knight and the rest of the points dedicated to rangers and walkers.

Both fluffwise and looking at the release, they are meant to be run together, with the Skitarii working as a small arms guard to the knight.

I like the cover, not shelled out for the rules yet.

The rumor, by the way, is that there will be Cult Mechanicus codex later this year. That would be very cool


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Alex Kolodotschko wrote:
I like the cover, not shelled out for the rules yet.

ALWAYS judge a book by it's cover. And the ending. It's all that counts. Bwahahahaha!

The next month, even.