Mod Edit: New info from Warhams-77, originally from Gamestrust.de:

Warhams-77 wrote:


















Via Gamestrust.de

http://www.gamestrust.de/news,games-workshop-bilder-preisliste-cover-bemal-white-dwarf-94,id47080.html

A few months ago there was a RUMOR that GW was dropping a few colors from the paint line. Here is that original rumor:

Adeptus Astartes


Via anonymous sources on Faeit 212
I've been told that some of the GW paints are going OOP. I don't know if they're just being discontinued or whether they're being replaced, I just know it's due to happen in November. The colours going are:
Ratskin flesh
Warpfiend Grey
Slaanesh Grey
Ungor Flesh
Bestigor Flesh
Dark Reaper
Thunderhawk Blue
Tyrant Skull
Mourn Mountain Snow
Lamenters Yellow
Daemonette Hide
Etherium Blue
Blackfire Earth
Lustrian Undergrowth

The trade brochure for the Best Sellers range has red dots next to the paints and when I asked what that was that's when I was told.

-Aaron

Buttery Commissar posted the following yesterday in this THREAD in Painting & Modeling:



Now two things stand out to me that lends credence to the previous rumor. First, there are only five Basing Combinations listed on the chart when there are currently six. Second and most telling IMHO, Lamenters Yellow is definitely missing from the Glazes on the chart. If anyone else has their White Dwarf yet, can you confirm or deny the other changes?

That does look like a useful chart. But yeah, it looks like they've dropped some surplus items; better stock up!

If the poster is the same as the one on the bulkhead in GW Southampton, Etherium Blue is still on it.

I was looking as I was planning on revamping the way I paint my UMs should I pick up Betrayal at Calth.

As noted above, it is different than the one released with White Dwarf Weekly #66 (May 2015), its just too small to tell how different.

Not tyrant skull! I neeed it.

There are 31 base colours in that chart, and 33 on the one from April:


(click to embiggen and compare if it takes your fancy)

Note: Scanned chart is missing texture paints as I did it for triad reference.

EDIT: original has 3 uses of Abaddon Black, which if you dropped the duplicates makes 31. May well be that they just chopped those to fit the new metallics in.

yeah,
Still no baal red.

Why no red wash?

Panic...

Carroburg Crimson is a red wash, isn't it?

I'll take a few colours lost for dropper bottles please GW :-)

 Matt.Kingsley wrote:
Carroburg Crimson is a red wash, isn't it?

Yes.

I bought some Thunderhawk Blue today, just in case.

Yeah,

 angelofvengeance wrote:

 Matt.Kingsley wrote:
Carroburg Crimson is a red wash, isn't it?

Yes.

Looks pink?

Panic...

Zanderchief wrote:
I'll take a few colours lost for dropper bottles please GW :-)

Dropper bottles conserve paint, gw wants your paint to go bad so you have to buy more. Hence the crappy jars

 Panic wrote:
Yeah,

 angelofvengeance wrote:

 Matt.Kingsley wrote:
Carroburg Crimson is a red wash, isn't it?

Yes.

Looks pink?

Panic...

It's red- I use it frequently.

This is one of the reasons why I stopped using GW paints. Why can't they just leave the line alone? People just get used to using certain paints and colors and then GW changes. Makes it very difficult to maintian a consistent paint scheme across a whole army that might take years to collect and paint.

Ungor and bestigor? Two of their four decent lighter skintones? That's not much good.

 namiel wrote:

Dropper bottles conserve paint, gw wants your paint to go bad so you have to buy more. Hence the crappy jars

Dropper bottles clog and seperate paint. It doesn't conserve so well when a big splat is deposited on the palette, or when you have to crack it open and give it a stir anyway.

 Vermis wrote:
Ungor and bestigor? Two of their four decent lighter skintones? That's not much good.

 namiel wrote:

Dropper bottles conserve paint, gw wants your paint to go bad so you have to buy more. Hence the crappy jars

Dropper bottles clog and seperate paint. It doesn't conserve so well when a big splat is deposited on the palette, or when you have to crack it open and give it a stir anyway.

If GW just wanted paint to go bad, they never would have switched out the pots 4? versions ago (Brazen Brass in this pic) Unless the lid/threads were surgically cleaned after every use, the whole pot would dry out.

Not a fan of droppers myself, but the shifting formulas got old decades ago.

Buttery Commissar wrote:EDIT: original has 3 uses of Abaddon Black, which if you dropped the duplicates makes 31. May well be that they just chopped those to fit the new metallics in.

There are three bundles that use Abaddon Black as a base, two that use Castellan Green and two that use XV-88. Regardless, the end results are quite different when used with the layer paints. Add to that, you don't even have to stick with the bundles when you're painting.

Vermis wrote:Dropper bottles clog and seperate paint. It doesn't conserve so well when a big splat is deposited on the palette, or when you have to crack it open and give it a stir anyway.

Not all dropper bottles are made equal and maintenance also plays a big part. Good droppers that are well maintained will beat out pots every time, in my opinion.

Why would paint in a dropper bottle seperate any other way than in any other kind of bottle?

The kind of mechanism to get the paint out of the bottle is 100% irrelevant to the seperation of paint.

A pin/needle and 2 seconds is all you need to remove paint from the dropper. it's as easy as it gets.

Droppers are in any way supperior to GW pots, especially if you airbrsh (which I do).

Checked in GW today, and if it's coming, the staff haven't heard. Though that could be pretty standard.

Meh, I wasn't planning on using these anyways

 Buttery Commissar wrote:
Checked in GW today, and if it's coming, the staff haven't heard. Though that could be pretty standard.

Its pretty much par for the course that GW staff are the last to know.

BRING BACK BLOOD RED DAMN YOU GW!!! Wild Rider Red has failed as a substitute!

Nevelon: I still have a few of those pots. A couple even have wet paint in them!

Ghaz wrote:
Not all dropper bottles are made equal

True, I have dropper bottles from SHC Web that have a much better nozzle design than the vallejo bottles that people keep raving about. But who bothers with the former?

RoninXiC wrote:Why would paint in a dropper bottle seperate any other way than in any other kind of bottle?

The kind of mechanism to get the paint out of the bottle is 100% irrelevant to the seperation of paint.

Tell that to my bottle of golden yellow, or green-brown... or the bottle of cork brown that burst in my face and across half the room because paint decided to stick, seperate and congeal up in that tiny narrow nozzle.

Good droppers that are well maintained

A pin/needle and 2 seconds is all you need to remove paint from the dropper.

Not so perfect then.

I have no problem with the Vallejo droppers. Its the Reaper ones that I've always had problems with.

And it doesn't take any longer to keep your dropper bottles in good shape than it does to clean the rims on your paint pots to ensure a good seal.

 Ghaz wrote:

 Buttery Commissar wrote:
Checked in GW today, and if it's coming, the staff haven't heard. Though that could be pretty standard.

Its pretty much par for the course that GW staff are the last to know.

Cheerfully wouldn't believe me would be a better way of putting it.

I guess its a part of their training when they're hired to not believe that their customers usually know more than the company tells their employees

Edit

*In relation to any change they may be doing it would be nice for them to fix the bellow issue i see*

Besides I still have issues with some of their paints (in particular whites and yellows) giving a chalky / powdery effect. Since I am in China my options are sometimes limited. Any suggestions on alternatives guys?

Count me in for being tired of paint changes......

I'm okay with changes as long as 'changes' equals additions to the paint line and not sending colors OOP.

 Nevelon wrote:

If GW just wanted paint to go bad, they never would have switched out the pots 4? versions ago (Brazen Brass in this pic) Unless the lid/threads were surgically cleaned after every use, the whole pot would dry out.

Not a fan of droppers myself, but the shifting formulas got old decades ago.

That pot, and the Bronzed Flesh pot next to it, were awful, awful designs. Am I the only one, or were those known as "bolter shell" pots? I vaguely recall hearing that nickname somewhere, and it stuck in my mind. The current ones are a huge step up from that.

Really hope they're not dropping paints, like some people say that's what makes people switch paint ranges...

Here is the page with the new chart scanned in at 300dpi. If you click on it and zoom in, you can make out each row



From what I see --

Extra row with Rakarth Flesh (2 now)
Daemonette Hide row is gone (boo!)
Ratksin Flesh row is gone (I'll miss Ungor Flesh, but oh well)
Dark Reaper row is gone (boo!)
Extra Retributor Armor row (yay!)
Lamenter's Yellow is gone (boo!)
Liquid Green Stuff is gone (yay?)
Imperial Primer, Lahmian Medium, Ardcoat added to Special Effects
Blackfire Earth & Underhive Ash gone (doubt anyone will miss these)
Agrellan Earth & Martian Ironearth moved to Basing Combinations (where they should be)

Thanks. Assuming they kept the same order those three collections are definitely missing, as is Lamenters Yellow and the Jungle Basing Collection (Lustrian Undergrowth/Underhive Ash).

I also noted what looks like a mention of new Dry metallic, Sigmarite (?). It appears in the Gold Collection and the new Retributor/Liberator Collection.

Looks like its back to the drawing board for my Necron paint scheme

 Mymearan wrote:
Really hope they're not dropping paints, like some people say that's what makes people switch paint ranges...

I think the daemonette hide (+ warpfiend grey, slaanesh grey) and dark reaper (+ thunderhawk blue) rows will be the only ones that anyone misses. But I believe they are going to web-only, along with the Edge Paints, not being discontinued entirely.

Interestingly, none of the edge paints are on the chart. I don't think I see the new Flayed One flesh either.

Out of everything GW's done to the paint range post GW New, Liberator Armor is the best paint, and Retributor the second. I'd trade all the ones that are gone for those two. The technical paints are really excellent too: typhus corrosion, nilakh oxide, blood for the blood god, nurgle's rot, ryza rust, agrellan earth, martian ironearth are all awesome.

The person at my shop says that the old paints are being removed from Bestsellers so that everything GW asks the stores to stock fits on 1 rack. If you look at it that way, they've added around 11 paints, so some have to go (at least off the rack).

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 Ghaz wrote:

Looks like its back to the drawing board for my Necron paint scheme

What's your Necron paint scheme?

 Talys wrote:

 Ghaz wrote:

Looks like its back to the drawing board for my Necron paint scheme

What's your Necron paint scheme?

Basically take the Novokh Dynasty paint scheme (the red and bright silver scheme seen in the photo section of the codex) and replace the red with the blue Duncan uses in the Tempestus Scions Painting Tutorial (base with The Fang, wash Agrax Earthshade, layer Thunderhawk Blue and highlight Fenrisian Grey).

I did note that the Edge paints are in the online store as web exclusive, so hopefully that is what they're doing with these colors as well and not outright discontinuing them.


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Hmm. Just noticed another change near the top of the new chart. There's a second Collection that uses Rakarth Flesh as a base. One of them uses Flayed One Flesh as a Layer (I think) while the other has something called 'Wrack White'. Then on the Mephiston and Khorne Red lines it looks like there's an 'Astorath Red' as well. There also looks like a change to the far right of Macragge Blue that I can't make out.

Wait the GW scion scheme uses Thunderhawk Blue? Damn it, I was going to use that one... What could I use to replace it?

Well, if it turns out you'll still be able to use Thunderhawk Blue but you'll have to order it direct from GW.

Got more or less a confirmation by my local store. I just called to ask how many pots of slanesh grey (one of the main colors of my tyranids) they have in stock. He said, that this color is marked as "oop" along with 10-15 other colors since half a year ago. So I ll just order like 15 pots to be sure that I can finish my army with an identical color scheme -.-

Greetings

EDIT: Its already marked in the online-shop:

http://www.shop.battlefield-berlin.de/index.php/katalog/artikelinfo/27013-1-show-slaanesh_grey_layer_oop.html

Think I ll run through all the colors I need for my armies... just to be sure xD

So I checked and found marked as oop:

Slanesh Grey
Daemonette Hide
DarkReaper
Lustrian Undergrowth
Ungor Flesh

I did not check the other colors

Thunderhawk Blue as well.

only one that really hits me (luckily) is dark reaper. It's the secondary colour for my admech forgeworld. I dont use much but still gonna grab a few pots for the stores

Thunderhawk Blue looks like Scale 75 Caspian Blue might be a good match for it.

some painting related pics

Thunderhawk Blue is now a Dry paint

Wait... Dawnstone is shown as a dry. If they remove that layer paint I'm rage quitting

Urghhhh dawstone is one of my most used paints...

Is liquid green stuff going away too? :-(

Nothing indicates that they would remove Dawnstone though like the other ones... I suppose it could be both a layer and a dry? I have to think it sells very well, it's a standard highlight for black > Eshin grey > Dawnstone.

So they are removing some of the regular paints, which could be applied as a drybrush with a simple technique that we all used before GW introduced 'dry' paints, and are replacing it with the odd consistency of a 'dry' paint that doesn't really thin back down to a regular paint....


Why, is my question.

What purpose could this serve, who does this benefit?

What's the point of the 'dry' paints anyway?

I haven't experienced any better drybrushing performance from them over regular paint.

Also; how many changes of the paint line dies it take for people to start switching to a more consistent range?

I reached my breaking point a long time ago but thanks to some medium and a herculean mixing effort a few years ago, most of my older GW paints still work (well not the ones in the 'Boltershell screwtop pots' of course since those are the worst paintpot design ever concieved) so It'll take years and years before I've replaced even half of my paints.

Well, interesting sidenote, GW don't own the name "Sigmarite" and have avoided using it in their paint names. It belongs as a non-registered trademark to this paint company (FWIW, they do also own the trademark on "Sigmarine"). Hmmmm....

Do you think GW got an ugly surprise when they went to register that and found it already taken?

 jonolikespie wrote:
Do you think GW got an ugly surprise when they went to register that and found it already taken?

Well, as I said- "Sigmarite" is not registered, but there is an existing paint product on the market with that name. I notice GW have slapped a TM on the Sigmarite pot.

Curious to see if anything plays out from this.

The last thing this range needs is more dry paints.

it's so dumb to make them dry.
You can paint and dry brush with a regular paint.
You can only dry brush with dry paints.

It's just hamstringing your own product line.

Mr.Church13 wrote:
The last thing this range needs is more dry paints.

it's so dumb to make them dry.
You can paint and dry brush with a regular paint.
You can only dry brush with dry paints.

It's just hamstringing your own product line.

This is GW we're talking about. This has been their M.O for the last few years.

Devil's Advocate here. The Dry paint range is great for new painters to be able to simply dip their brush in and get great drybrush technique with little to no practice.

Personally I've used a couple of them and they're OK, but they dry out ridiculously fast. I used one color ONCE, and then the next time I went back to it a couple months later on a new project, it was like tar.

If they removed Dawnstone I'll be pretty upset, I use that color very regularly... although it wont be that bad. It's such a dark grey that I can just mix a teeny bit of light gray with black and I'll get the same thing. Nevertheless I'll probably go buy a few spare pots... Think I'll hit the hobby store tonight heh.

Don't get me wrong the dry range does work, but it's never taken me long to teach someone how to use regular paints for dry brushing.

Just a really dumb idea here.

First of all, scorn for dry paint is silly. They are AWESOME if you use them in the right context: anyone who paints a whole lot of terrain will tell you that they're a godsend. Some of the dry paints like Necron Compound can make the difference between 3 hours of highlighting or 3 minutes of drybrushing.

It's not just that they are very easy to get to the right consistency on the brush. It's also that one pot of dry paint lasts FOREVER. The mileage is incredible. Plus, the colors are really ideal for highlighting. Colors like Tyrant Skull and Eldar Flesh are just perfect for quickly finishing things like bases -- where drybrush paints will get you thousands of bases done, because the only thing you'll ever find with more pigment in a pot is a powder.

These boards were painted with many dry paints. Almost every inch of these have some dry paint on it, including necron compound literally everywhere you see metallic (highlighting silver, gold, bronze):



All the metal parts on this dreadnought here were drybrushed with necron compound, too -- it's not just for terrain:



That being said, calling a dry paint thunderhawk blue and dawnstone is stupid. The colors are probably exactly the same as the old thunderhawk blue and the current dawnstone (so you could have dawnstone dry, or dawnstone layer, for instance), but it would have made so much more sense to call them something else similar.

Last thing... Thunderhawk Blue as a drybrush paint is actually really nice for me. I only ever use it as a drybrush first highlight But, it would be nice if they kept it as a layer paint too, for folks who use it for that purpose. In a pinch, you could just add lahmian medium (or some other medium) to make the dry paint regular paint.


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Two other things I noticed --

New ** 24ml ** citadel shades? That sounds cool. At a price of $7.50, that's a discount from the current price, and awesome for nuhln oil and agrax earthshade (I just bought 6 of each, literally three days ago, sigh).

Liquid Green Stuff: $6.50 USD? Really? O.O

And while that's wonderful for you. Thunderhawk and Dawnstone are two of my regularly used colors, as actual paints.

Now I can't do that with the useless dry versions.

Dang it GW you ADD to a good line you don't REMOVE!

Bought 7 pots of Thunderhawk and Dawnstone each upon hearing this. My Stormtroopers shall not be unpainted!

GODDAMNIT GEEDUB WHY YOU DO THIS!?

Thunderhawk Blue was my main paint for my Necrons. Now they'll look like Ultra-Necrons.

 Ghaz wrote:
Thunderhawk Blue was my main paint for my Necrons. Now they'll look like Ultra-Necrons.

Yeah my Eldar were being redone in Thunderhawk Blue. Now I'll just stop buying Eldar.

Are there comparable colors in a different paint line? Vallejo's Game Color, maybe? A lot of other companies have analogues for discontinued GW paints. These ones might be too new, though. Why such frequent changes?

Mr.Church13 wrote:
And while that's wonderful for you. Thunderhawk and Dawnstone are two of my regularly used colors, as actual paints.

Now I can't do that with the useless dry versions.

Dang it GW you ADD to a good line you don't REMOVE!

Dawnstone isn't gone -- it's available in both layer and dry (look at the paint chart). Thunderhawk blue and dark reaper being pulled sucks. However, we can hold out hope that they are web only rather than discontinued -- like the edge paints, which are also not on the chart (and some of these are paints I love).

Oh man, I jumped right to DOOM MODE. Yeah ok so at least Dawnstone is safe.

Gotta buy some TH and DR this week though.

 Guildsman wrote:
Are there comparable colors in a different paint line? Vallejo's Game Color, maybe? A lot of other companies have analogues for discontinued GW paints. These ones might be too new, though. Why such frequent changes?

No, there are no paints close enough to dark reaper and thunderhawk blue that if you painted one more model with a set that they would be indistinguishable from a tabletop perspective, not to mention any closer scrutiny than that. I think P3's line is closish, but only if you're doing a whole new army and you have nothing done with reaper/thunderhawk.

Ungor flesh is an easy one, even within GW. There were too many flesh tones anyhow.

Dawnstone is very close to medium sea grey in Vallejo model air, and I'm sure there is a model color that is close enough. But i don't thint's going anywhere.

Anything similar to Daemonette Hide? I've tried VGC Heavy Violet the dakka paint chart suggests but it is too different.

durecellrabbit wrote:Anything similar to Daemonette Hide? I've tried VGC Heavy Violet the dakka paint chart suggests but it is too different.

I don't think there is anything even close. Also a really sad color to see go, because it's quote unique. In that pink/violet/purple range, there are so few colors between all the different brands. Again, we can only hope t's being taken off of bestsellers, rather than outright discontinued. We'll know in a few days now, I guess.

I can't belive they dropped dark reaper. That's like the go to paint for a lot of sons of hours paint schemes.

 Talys wrote:

Mr.Church13 wrote:
And while that's wonderful for you. Thunderhawk and Dawnstone are two of my regularly used colors, as actual paints.

Now I can't do that with the useless dry versions.

Dang it GW you ADD to a good line you don't REMOVE!

Dawnstone isn't gone -- it's available in both layer and dry (look at the paint chart). Thunderhawk blue and dark reaper being pulled sucks. However, we can hold out hope that they are web only rather than discontinued -- like the edge paints, which are also not on the chart (and some of these are paints I love).

I'm not entirely sure I would trust the chart on its own or else that means we'll have three different paints called Dawnstone (Layer, Dry and Air) Then again, this is Games Workshop we're talking about...

EDIT: And according to THIS, it looks like Slannesh Grey and Thunderhawk Blue will be direct only!

 Panic wrote:
Yeah,

 angelofvengeance wrote:

 Matt.Kingsley wrote:
Carroburg Crimson is a red wash, isn't it?

Yes.

Looks pink?

Panic...

Its actually a dark red and probably works better than Baal Red as a wash. Gives a deeper red in the recesses. They made all of the colors deeper with the range change from Baal to Carroburg and they work quite well.

I'm fine with Direct Only! Did we dodge a bullet?

No. The "Direct Only' looks like it is referencing the Dry versions of Thunderhawk Blue and Slaanesh Grey.

From what I recall, some of the dry paints are the exact same paint as others in the line, they're just a different consistency.

believe I've seen videos and literature pointing out that Ryza Rust Dry is the exact same color as one of other orange paints in the base or layer range (for example). I can't recall which, and I don't have my pots handy. I know I've seen tips about taking a blob of dry, putting it on a palette and then using a thinner to get it to the consistency of a layer or a base paint.

Bet these dry up quick like all the other gak they sell....


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Damn it...i didnt say gak...what is gak?...gak is not a word!...what i meant to say is gak.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Damn it...................


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also Tau breachers are £20 in a gift guide...GW say i might be able to have it at that price.....a bet not.

Murrdox wrote:
Devil's Advocate here. The Dry paint range is great for new painters to be able to simply dip their brush in and get great drybrush technique with little to no practice.

But you don't need any practice to dry brush with a layer paint? dip brush in paint, wipe off excess on cloth, drybrush? It's literally the easiest technique to explain? 8 year old me drybrushed everything.

licclerich wrote:
Bet these dry up quick like all the other gak they sell....


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Damn it...i didnt say gak...what is gak?...gak is not a word!...what i meant to say is gak.


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Damn it...................

Gak is the 40k equivalent slang for the swear word you are trying to use. Dakka's filter caught it and changed it. Just like the word feth


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Herzlos wrote:

Murrdox wrote:
Devil's Advocate here. The Dry paint range is great for new painters to be able to simply dip their brush in and get great drybrush technique with little to no practice.

But you don't need any practice to dry brush with a layer paint? dip brush in paint, wipe off excess on cloth, drybrush? It's literally the easiest technique to explain? 8 year old me drybrushed everything.

While it is nice to be able to hand a new person a pot and have them use it so easily I have to agree, drybrushing is a fairly basic technique that people should learn to become better painters and so they they are not limited to such a small range from a single brand.

Herzlos wrote:

Murrdox wrote:
Devil's Advocate here. The Dry paint range is great for new painters to be able to simply dip their brush in and get great drybrush technique with little to no practice.

But you don't need any practice to dry brush with a layer paint? dip brush in paint, wipe off excess on cloth, drybrush? It's literally the easiest technique to explain? 8 year old me drybrushed everything.

The thing is you do waste allot of paint Drybrushing, with a dry paint you don't have that waste.

I've been doing allot of 10mm Undead recently (Yay Warmaster!), all heavily drybrushed, and even trying not to have too much paint on the brush before wiping it I still burn through the paint.

Maybe GWs onto a winner. Make they entire range Dry and force hobbyists to buy one pot of lahmein medium for every paint pot they buy...

 Bottle wrote:
Maybe GWs onto a winner. Make they entire range Dry and force hobbyists to buy one pot of lahmein medium for every paint pot they buy...

Prepare the pitchforks!

Vallejo model air US intermediate blue is pretty much the same as thunderhawk blue

http://arcanesceneryandmodels.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/imported/Vallejo-Model-Air-US-INTERMEDIATE-BLUE-71113-Acrylic-Airbrush-Paint-17mls-181227279708.jpg

When I have clearer pic I'll share it.

There's a big copy of that in the original post...

My profuse apologies for double posting, I'm yet to find a satisfactory way to include two images on a post using my phone.

Here is a picture from WD 92 showing the new paints.


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 Ghaz wrote:
There's a big copy of that in the original post...

whoops, my phone was cached and still showing the old one.

Guess I need to use a PC to Dakka.

Anyone yet mentioned that Shades are now coming in bigger pots? £4.55 in 24ml pots.

MongooseMatt wrote:
Anyone yet mentioned that Shades are now coming in bigger pots? £4.55 in 24ml pots.

How much was it before in £?

£2.65, I think? £3.50 for the extra shiny gold...

So is it confirmed that we are not loosing Tyrant Skull? I'm kind of stressing about it.

MongooseMatt wrote:
Anyone yet mentioned that Shades are now coming in bigger pots? £4.55 in 24ml pots.

Yeah they've become $11AUD for 24ml in Australia compared to $6 for 12ml before.

Feth that for a joke, I guess I won't be buying any GW shades ever again. Sure, it's nice to have larger bottles on paints you run out of more frequently, but you can't just increase the price per bottle so dramatically because it's also important to have a selection of paints you might not use quite as frequently. Army Painter washes are RRP $6 for 18ml so are both cheaper per ml AND cheaper per bottle AND I can get them for $4.50 anyway. GW aren't even competing.

AllSeeingSkink wrote:

MongooseMatt wrote:
Anyone yet mentioned that Shades are now coming in bigger pots? £4.55 in 24ml pots.

Yeah they've become $11AUD for 24ml in Australia compared to $6 for 12ml before.

Feth that for a joke, I guess I won't be buying any GW shades ever again. Sure, it's nice to have larger bottles on paints you run out of more frequently, but you can't just increase the price per bottle so dramatically because it's also important to have a selection of paints you might not use quite as frequently. Army Painter washes are RRP $6 for 18ml so are both cheaper per ml AND cheaper per bottle AND I can get them for $4.50 anyway. GW aren't even competing.

Price increase You're getting the same amount you would in two of the smaller pots for a dollar less so they've dropped the price.

 Ghaz wrote:

AllSeeingSkink wrote:

MongooseMatt wrote:
Anyone yet mentioned that Shades are now coming in bigger pots? £4.55 in 24ml pots.

Yeah they've become $11AUD for 24ml in Australia compared to $6 for 12ml before.

Feth that for a joke, I guess I won't be buying any GW shades ever again. Sure, it's nice to have larger bottles on paints you run out of more frequently, but you can't just increase the price per bottle so dramatically because it's also important to have a selection of paints you might not use quite as frequently. Army Painter washes are RRP $6 for 18ml so are both cheaper per ml AND cheaper per bottle AND I can get them for $4.50 anyway. GW aren't even competing.

Price increase You're getting the same amount you would in two of the smaller pots for a dollar less so they've dropped the price.

But they have still raised the barrier to purchase. This is only saving a dollar if you use all 24ml, if you only need a couple of mls to use on a few models you are paying five dollars more.

 Ghaz wrote:

AllSeeingSkink wrote:

MongooseMatt wrote:
Anyone yet mentioned that Shades are now coming in bigger pots? £4.55 in 24ml pots.

Yeah they've become $11AUD for 24ml in Australia compared to $6 for 12ml before.

Feth that for a joke, I guess I won't be buying any GW shades ever again. Sure, it's nice to have larger bottles on paints you run out of more frequently, but you can't just increase the price per bottle so dramatically because it's also important to have a selection of paints you might not use quite as frequently. Army Painter washes are RRP $6 for 18ml so are both cheaper per ml AND cheaper per bottle AND I can get them for $4.50 anyway. GW aren't even competing.

Price increase You're getting the same amount you would in two of the smaller pots for a dollar less so they've dropped the price.

The only way this isn't a price increase is if the purchaser was intending to buy two of the same shade. Literally every other sensible scenario results in the buyer being required to spend more money than previously.

Citadel is one of the only paint ranges I can walk in off the street and buy without making a special effort, so with limited rack space, I don't purchase multiples, therefore, to me, it is a price increase.

Talking of racks, do the new larger bottles have the same footprint and are just taller, or have they got fatter too? Cause fatter means they won't fit in my paint rack.

Washes run out pretty quickly for me, so that makes it a net positive.

I use so much agrax that bigger pots are a godsend. I was toying with the idea of filling up a jam jar with the stuff!

I use it almost every piece of 6mm scenery I make.

Shame about dark reaper. I just brought two pots as its wonderful for my space wolves snow bases, for a slightly cold blue tone. Oh well. I will have to try something else, and keep them for finishing the stuff I have done so far.

I use tons of Agrax and Nuhln oil, so those are definitely a savings for me.

For the washes that you don't use much of: Azreal13 has a point in that if you're going to use 1ml every year, buying a 24ml bottle is effectively a price increase, because that pot might not be good for 24 years, and will you still be painting minis?

I still have my original black-topped washes for a few of them, and I'll probably never finish them. I personally just don't have a lot of use for Druchii Violet and probably won't use 24ml in my entire life, which isn't a reflection of its quality, just of what I paint. The only reason I've replaced my Serraphim Serra is because I knocked one over by accident >.<

On the other hand, nobody gave Vallejo a hard time when they came out with the airbrush metallics in big pot size and charged way more than double the price ($12 each here). Frankly, I'll never use a whole big jar of a lot of them, and buying the whole set of 10 paints or so cost a lot more than the small droppers, which I would have been happy with for all the colors other than gunmetal.

But, whatever. The old pots will be there at the stores for a long time, and if you don't want to invest in a big pot, just buy one of the old stock It's not like these things dry up, and unlike the paint pots, the wash pots don't get gummed up or require cleaning over time.

Its not really a price increase, they're just selling you more than you need (or want) to buy. If they were to sell a 6ml pot of shade for $2.50 would you say that's a price decrease from the $4.25 for the 12ml pot? I don't think so.

 Ghaz wrote:
Its not really a price increase, they're just selling you more than you need (or want) to buy. If they were to sell a 6ml pot of shade for $2.50 would you say that's a price decrease from the $4.25 for the 12ml pot? I don't think so.

It's a price increase in the context of cost per bottle. It's a price decrease in terms of cost per ml.

When it comes to hobby paints, I almost always prefer a low cost per bottle over a low cost per ml, and best case scenario is to have low cost per bottle AND low cost per ml.

GW shades just went from being only slightly more expensive per bottle compared to Army Painter to now being more than twice the price per bottle of Army Painter, and STILL aren't less per ml either.

So n other words damned if they do and damned if they don't.

 Ghaz wrote:
So n other words damned if they do and damned if they don't.

What? No. Of course not. Don't be silly and obtuse.

GW don't compete on either price per bottle nor price per ml. Compared to their competition they only marginally improved their price per ml and massively hurt their price per bottle.

In the past I've defended GW's paints because at the end of the day they had a similar price per bottle as other paints when people compared them to other companies that sold at a better price per ml. And (in my case for many years) they had better availability.

It now costs $132AUD to own the full range of shades from GW, up from $72AUD previously. You're less likely to run out now but that extra $60 would have gone a long way to replacing the Agrax and Nuln that people go through more frequently than all the others.

On the up side, hopefully people will look more to alternatives for their washes. There's a lot of good options out there these days.

the problem is that not all washes behave the same, just as not all acrylics paints have the same finish, different brands of washes have different finishes...
if one company's paints have a finish that i don't like, then the cheaper price means absolutely nothing...
all paints are not created equal...

personally, i like the bigger bottles for things like washes, varnish, and primer...
they are gonna get used on every mini, so why not have twice as much for a buck less???

cheers
jah

 jah-joshua wrote:
the problem is that not all washes behave the same, just as not all acrylics paints have the same finish, different brands of washes have different finishes...
if one company's paints have a finish that i don't like, then the cheaper price means absolutely nothing...
all paints are not created equal...

I used Army Painter as an example largely because Army Painter behave very much like the old GW washes.

I can appreciate buying the paints you like regardless of price... at a quick count I have paint from a dozen companies on my shelf and I don't think ANY of them I bought simply because they were the cheapest. But honestly, 95% of purchases are from people who would be equally as happy with one of half a dozen options when it comes to washes. I would think for most people the reason they are buying a GW wash over any other wash is simply because they are in a GW store being told how awesome their washes are or are following someone's tutorial/advice online who said they used GW washes.

personally, i like the bigger bottles for things like washes, varnish, and primer...
they are gonna get used on every mini, so why not have twice as much for a buck less???

cheers
jah

Varnish and primer I agree with but washes? Really? I mean, I've gone through plenty of Brown and Black wash, but the other washes in my collection have typically dried out before I got through the whole bottle. They're still worth having in the collection, but I wouldn't think most people go through heaps of them. I use a blue wash on my Tyranid carapace but 2000pts of nids and I've still only used 1 bottle of it and green wash on my Ork's flesh but there again I've not even gone through 1 bottle of Army Painter's green wash.

The only washes I have gone through in large amounts (more than 1 bottle) over the past couple of years has been Army Painter's strong tone and dark tone (similar to Devlan Mud and Badab Black) because they tend to be all-over washes.

i can only speak for myself, not the 95% of other purchases out there, but i have taken to using my Leviathan Purple wash on bases, and my Ogryn Flesh wash on bases and parchments...
after over 6 years of the pots sitting around, they were still in perfect working order when i finally decided to bust them out last year...
now, in a year, i have used them all up...
that goes to show me that twice the amount of purple and flesh wash would do me just fine, as long as the current washes have the same matte finish as the previous formula...
i'm willing to give them a whirl...

cheers
jah

Sorry, "dried out" was an exaggeration, I more so meant "darkened considerably because the medium was evaporated significantly". I could revive them with more medium, but then I might as well just make my own wash, lol. I've always found if I stop painting my nids for a year or so (who rely heavily on a devlan mud wash) and use an old pot instead of a fresh pot, they come out significantly darker than the others. My blue wash which is several years old doesn't go on smoothly unless I thin it heavily.

And it's not the volume that bothers me, it's the price per bottle. I have some Tamiya washes that came in 40ml bottles which is awesome.... they still only cost me $8AUD.

Humbrol washes are also expensive at $11 a pot and I have avoided them for the same reason, but they still manage to beat GW on price per ml. In the UK Humbrol washes are a bit cheaper at 4GBP RRP compared to 4.55GBP for the GW ones.

For those of you who were worried about Dawnstone, from 'What's New Today' for 16th November 2015:

Indeed, the colour Dawnstone is now available as an Air Paint, a Layer Paint and a Dry compound...

So your Dawnstone Layer Paint is safe. I wish I could say the same for my Thunderhawk Blue

@Skink - if you paint a lot of terrain, you go can through BUCKETS of wash. When I did my sector imperialis boards, I think I went through 5+ each of Nuhln and Agrax.

The problem, really, is that there are some washes that you only use a tiny bit of; while other washes you gobble up. The best solution would be for GW to have BOTH the small and large size washes, but I don't think that will happen, given the space requirements on the rack and the number of washes.

@Ghaz - Yeah, I couldn't have imagined GW killing off Dawnstone. I'm very happy that it's available as dry, actually: that will save me tons of paint, as the Dry compounds go way further than layer paints, when you're using them to drybrush. And again, for terrain, dawnstone is just key color for highlighting up stone/greys.

Terrain painting, particular full boards, is right around the time when making your own wash really pays off.

I say this as a person that generally buys washes, but if you have a full board, a bottle of medium, a little flow release, and artist's ink really comes in cheaper.

On topic: I personally don't use GW paints, but I'm bummed for those that do to have to fear losing paints. While it looks like the current range is here to stay, I do recommend looking to some more stable ranges for the long haul.

 Azreal13 wrote:

Talking of racks, do the new larger bottles have the same footprint and are just taller, or have they got fatter too? Cause fatter means they won't fit in my paint rack.

That's a good point. Whilst I'm all for bigger bottles of wash (I splatter it on everything), my paints-case isn't that deep so it's likely it won't fit with my other citadels (too tall) or my vallejos (too wide). I might start using it and improvise if I ever run out of Army Painter though.

 Polonius wrote:
Terrain painting, particular full boards, is right around the time when making your own wash really pays off.

Terrain is when I bust out the $1 craft paints and the Minwax.

Yeah I feel like you're just burning money if you use GW washes for terrain. You'd have to absolutely LOVE how they work to waste the money on it when there's lots of alternatives that are cheaper per ml. Even if you don't want to make your own wash, there are other washes that are cheaper per ml.

That's my problem with the upsized GW washes.... they still aren't cheaper per ml than the competition AND they're also expensive per bottle.

Before they sucked on price per ml, but at least they weren't too bad on price per bottle. Now they just suck at both.

I'm not disparaging the people who like the upsized bottles, but overall it seems more negatives than positives to me.

I use it for plastic terrain pieces, but not for boards.

I can't wait to get some of the big shade bottles. If you want to buy the small size, the shade box set will have them still.

And now I have like 4 pots of Dawnstone because I went out and panic bought

... and I'm probably gonna get the dry pigment one too when I paint up my Garden of Morr

In the past 5 years GW has made more money from me panic buying things I thought were going out of production than they have me actually buying things I directly want. Luckily I've broken that habit now and have learned to avoid GW things in the first place.... though if they revive specialist games they might actually have me back again

 Bottle wrote:
I can't wait to get some of the big shade bottles. If you want to buy the small size, the shade box set will have them still.

Oh good, a solution that results in the purchase of even greater quantities of wash that aren't necessarily needed.

It was an easy fix, keep the originals, offer larger pots at a small discount for those with greater need. Everyone's happy.

Well, except the one guy who's about to respond with some deeply personal reason why this wouldn't work for him.

i'm sure there will be plenty of small bottles available from the retailers who have them on hand right now...
i can't see there being a huge run on washes simply due to GW giving you more of what you need in the new bottles...

@Azreal13: i don't think that two sizes would be a problem, but it doesn't seem to be GW's m.o. to give cheaper choices on products...
go all in, or go home, seems to be the business philosophy...

cheers
jah

The two sizes could be a problem for the independents who have to stock them, especially if their space is limited.

 Azreal13 wrote:

 Bottle wrote:
I can't wait to get some of the big shade bottles. If you want to buy the small size, the shade box set will have them still.

Oh good, a solution that results in the purchase of even greater quantities of wash that aren't necessarily need.

I meant more so, you can buy 1 shade box to get you started and after that any you get through at a considerable pace you can buy the bigger bottles. It works for me, I still have the old old bottles for stuff like the Green Shade (Thraka Green) as I went through them so slowly. Things like Agrax Earthshade and Nuln Oil I go through weekly.

New rumor via faeit:

http://natfka.blogspot.ca/2015/11/citadel-paints-moving-to-online-only.html

Please remember that this is considered a rumor, although from a very solid source.

via anonymous sources on Faeit 212
Following Colors will move to online order
- Slaanesh Gray LAYER
- Thunderhawk Blue LAYER
- Dark Reaper
- Warpfiend Grey
- Bestigor Flesh
- Demonette Hide
- Ratskin Flesh
- Lustrian Undergrowth
- Mourn Mountain Snow
- Blackfire Earth
- Etherium Blue
- Tyrant Skull
- Lamenters Yellow

If true, this is just fine with me!

Dark reaper I do use for my AdMech but not in huge quantities. Definitely looking forward to the larger bottles of wash

 Talys wrote:
New rumor via faeit:

http://natfka.blogspot.ca/2015/11/citadel-paints-moving-to-online-only.html

Please remember that this is considered a rumor, although from a very solid source.

via anonymous sources on Faeit 212
Following Colors will move to online order
- Slaanesh Gray LAYER
- Thunderhawk Blue LAYER
- Dark Reaper
- Warpfiend Grey
- Bestigor Flesh
- Demonette Hide
- Ratskin Flesh
- Lustrian Undergrowth
- Mourn Mountain Snow
- Blackfire Earth
- Etherium Blue
- Tyrant Skull
- Lamenters Yellow

If true, this is just fine with me!

Keeping in mind the source, we have a 50/50 chance of it being true Yeah, I'll be fne with this if it is true.

the key's going to be if they are moving to online only but only while current stocks run down,

or moving to online only with fresh production runs as nessesary

 OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:
the key's going to be if they are moving to online only but only while current stocks run down,

or moving to online only with fresh production runs as nessesary

The paints aren't online only on the website yet, and obviously stores have stock. I doubt it would be worth the effort for independents to round up the paints to send back; dunno about GW stores. That being said, GW sent the stores new paint arrangement layouts for the paint racks.

I got the new 24 ml Agrax/nuhln a couple days ago... AWESOME, imo. Also, all the new dry paints. I actually picked up the dry paint set, which comes with 6 new dry, 4 old dry (but good ones like Necron compound and terminatus stone) and a small drybruah for almost free. Then the other 7 dry paints that aren't direct only.

My first thoughts - it's really nice that there are darker dry paints now. Some of the colors like the brown, grey (dawnstone) and the one that looks like moot green are really welcome. I'm excited to check out Signmarite, as I never really liked golden griffon (at least not the way I liked Necron compound). I know a lot of people go "what's the point of dry paints?", but I really like them -- one pot goes so far compared to layer or base.

I've struggled to find a use for the dry paints, they all seem very washed out and chalky. I guess they are for extreme highlights?

 Polonius wrote:
I've struggled to find a use for the dry paints, they all seem very washed out and chalky. I guess they are for extreme highlights?

Extreme highlights or, in my experience with the earthier tones, weathering on the cheap.

Considering all of the Edge paints and two of the brand new Dry paints are direct-only I can see GW restocking them as needed. Then again, I could also see GW developing the two new Dry paints and making them 'while supplies last'.

 Talys wrote:
New rumor via faeit:

http://natfka.blogspot.ca/2015/11/citadel-paints-moving-to-online-only.html

Please remember that this is considered a rumor, although from a very solid source.

via anonymous sources on Faeit 212
Following Colors will move to online order
- Slaanesh Gray LAYER
- Thunderhawk Blue LAYER
- Dark Reaper
- Warpfiend Grey
- Bestigor Flesh
- Demonette Hide
- Ratskin Flesh
- Lustrian Undergrowth
- Mourn Mountain Snow
- Blackfire Earth
- Etherium Blue
- Tyrant Skull
- Lamenters Yellow

If true, this is just fine with me!

It is true, GW stores have been asked to dispose of their remaining bottles. I was not under the impression this meant "mail back".
My local elected to give players a chance, and have them neatly stacked on a spare self, with a last chance sign, and the standard racks have been updated with gaps awaiting this weekend.

 Buttery Commissar wrote:

 Talys wrote:
New rumor via faeit:

http://natfka.blogspot.ca/2015/11/citadel-paints-moving-to-online-only.html

Please remember that this is considered a rumor, although from a very solid source.

via anonymous sources on Faeit 212
Following Colors will move to online order
- Slaanesh Gray LAYER
- Thunderhawk Blue LAYER
- Dark Reaper
- Warpfiend Grey
- Bestigor Flesh
- Demonette Hide
- Ratskin Flesh
- Lustrian Undergrowth
- Mourn Mountain Snow
- Blackfire Earth
- Etherium Blue
- Tyrant Skull
- Lamenters Yellow

If true, this is just fine with me!

It is true, GW stores have been asked to dispose of their remaining bottles. I was not under the impression this meant "mail back".
My local elected to give players a chance, and have them neatly stacked on a spare self, with a last chance sign, and the standard racks have been updated with gaps awaiting this weekend.

They confirmed that the paints would still be available online?

Yes. Though don't quote me on exact colours, everything that's dropping from stores is going into the web shop.
I said "damn I use X on all my Orks" and the manager went "yeah it'll be online." rather than pushing a sale literally 2 feet in front of him.

I was at my local GW yesterday and noticed a heap of paints weren't in stock. That is a rarity because normally the store is pretty well stocked. That said I didn't really pay attention to what was missing because I have mostly eliminated my reliance on GW paints.

After 10+ years of buying primarily GW paints I'm out, there's too many good paint suppliers to bother with a company that changes ranges every few years and has the worst prices out of pretty much anyone.

@Skink: i noticed some paints out of stock at my local GW, too...
i think the "auto" restock system is hurting the shops, as is the drive to online ordering from the webstore...

i don't blame you for moving to different paints...
i skipped the last two generations of paints, stopping after the bolter shell bottle years...
over the last ten years, i have only tried new products...
i tried the Foundation paints, but found them to be too thick for my painting style...
i tried the first washes, and liked two a lot, so i'll give the current ones a look...
i just ordered a few of the Technical Paints, so we'll see how i like them...

funny enough, my vintage 1990 Citadel paints are still all in perfect working order, and work better for me than anything that they have released in the last 25 years...
they just don't make 'em like they used to...

cheers
jah

 Polonius wrote:
I've struggled to find a use for the dry paints, they all seem very washed out and chalky. I guess they are for extreme highlights?

Or just a quick and easy way to highlight the majority of a model. Basecoat, drybrush and wash. Boom. Done.

 jah-joshua wrote:
funny enough, my vintage 1990 Citadel paints are still all in perfect working order, and work better for me than anything that they have released in the last 25 years...
they just don't make 'em like they used to...

cheers
jah

Actually they do make them like they used to. They're just called Coat d'Arms now...

 Ghaz wrote:

 jah-joshua wrote:
funny enough, my vintage 1990 Citadel paints are still all in perfect working order, and work better for me than anything that they have released in the last 25 years...
they just don't make 'em like they used to...

cheers
jah

Actually they do make them like they used to. They're just called Coat d'Arms now...

hahahahaha
good point!!!

i am interested in how the Technical paints will work out, though...
i ordered Blood for the Blood God, Nihilakh Oxide, and Martian Ironearth...
at 25% off, it was a good enough deal to go in blind...
i've never tried any crackle paint, so this one should be fun to play with on some bases...

cheers
jah

I recently got frustrated at GW paints altogether, and am moving on to P3...

 krazynadechukr wrote:
I recently got frustrated at GW paints altogether, and am moving on to P3...

i did this a decade ago, and couldn't be happier...
95% of my paints are P3, with just a few of the specialized things like Vallejo Smoke, Vallejo Model Air Metals, and Citadel washes rounding out the arsenal...

the Technical paints should show up tomorrow, so we'll see how they work out...

cheers
jah

 jah-joshua wrote:

 krazynadechukr wrote:
I recently got frustrated at GW paints altogether, and am moving on to P3...

i did this a decade ago, and couldn't be happier...
95% of my paints are P3, with just a few of the specialized things like Vallejo Smoke, Vallejo Model Air Metals, and Citadel washes rounding out the arsenal...

the Technical paints should show up tomorrow, so we'll see how they work out...

cheers
jah

Yeah, we discussed this in my thread, and I am taking your advice (as well as the others0! Everyone mentioned P3, so I figure that was solid advice! Thanks again!

The only thing I don't like about the Citadel paints is the pots they come in (price is a given as with any GW product ). I've never had a problem with their current paints. For 40K I like the more satin finish over Vallejo's matte finish and its the only line that I can get locally and actually see before I buy.

 Ghaz wrote:
....and its the only line that I can get locally and actually see before I buy.

For years that was the biggest reason I bought GW paints. Buying paints online or without seeing them sucks. The number of paints I've bought that sit on my shelf doing nothing because I thought the colour was something different to what it actually was... I could probably afford to buy a complete paint set for the amount of money I've wasted