Prodos is a red flag company, they still have a huge amount of unfulfilled kick starter pledges that they can't afford to produce and post. If for some crazy reason you need boob marines do not pre-order this just wait for retail. Of course they might get their asses sued off before it gets to retail.
I’ve seen some bad cheesecake armor designs, but ... Wow. The not-terminators totally lacking in torso armor are particularly bad. I can understand a little cleavage window, or a power-corset for “artistic” reasons. At least the gal strapped into the front of the walker thing isn’t even pretending to be armored. And I can sort of see an excuse for the bikes/winged ones as light recon troops.
But hammer/shield heavy shock troops with every vital spot exposed?
Still waiting on my AVP Kickstarter which PRODOS put to retail nearly a year ago, a year after they said it would be forefilled. Multiple lies on delivery dates, multiple promises failingto deliver. Not to mention what is being sent out to backers is not what you paid for and many models are still missing from peoples pledges, the lucky ones who've actually recieved anything. PRODOS have stated that any addional income is being used to forefill the AVP Kickstarter.
It will be a while before PRODOS get any more of my money, pre-order at your own peril.
As for the models, either have them armoured, or scantily clad. Can't have both, it doesn't work.
Well the way I see it, it's a choice on a per-product basis, not some strict company wide policy. Just like Hasslefree.. sometimes there is a realistically attired female zombie hunter and sometimes it's a naked incubus with his wang on display.
Fortunately there is no governing body that says "Your miniatures must conform!" otherwise I wouldn't have a model for my WFRP character
If it wasn't Prodos, it wasn't resin, and the opposing force were the demon girls and not what appears to be a bunch of nurglings I'd be tempted, but no.
I like cheesecake as well as more "realistic" models, both have their appeal. But these for some reason have neither. Seems derivative, lazy and boring. Nopes.
The sculpts look a'ight to me, but not a fan of cheesecake really.. I think it's just been overdone at this point. But.. I think I would have rather seen their space marinettes look more like not-sisters of battle
The second pic is eye rolling bad. They could have done something so much cooler if they were going to do a rip off, instead you get laughably objectifying miniatures.
Some of the demon ladies in the link look alright, but the power bikinied humans just look odd. I think the sculptor put too much emphasis on breasts, and not enough on proper proportions. The mech thing (while silly) actually looks pretty decent though.
I have no issue with gratuitous boobage, as long as it makes sense.
6-inch thick steel plate armour around the limbs, and naked flesh on the torso (and all the squishy vital organs it contains) in a sci-fi game with loads of bullets and gribbly plague demons does not make sense, and looks very, very dumb.
You know for once, GW putting on their "litigious bully" hat and suing this out of existence would actually be doing everybody a favour.
Ye gads it's terrible, especially the Titminators. I mean they're all pretty bad with the silly bowling ball boobs, but they are just stunningly stupid. These aren't even cheesecake, just replacing the chestplate of a big blocky suit of armour with a bikini top isn't "sexy".
Unless the plot is about the quest for the missing chestpieces, this a miss for me. It's possible to make sexy models without looking dumb. When people say they want female models without boobplate, you can't address it by just taking off the boobplate.
A group that have clearly misjudged their target audience.
I dunno, something tells me that this will sell like hot cakes to a certain type of teenage boy as well as those individuals who absolutely want sexualisd female space marines...
I dunno, something tells me that this will sell like hot cakes to a certain type of teenage boy as well as those individuals who absolutely want sexualisd female space marines...
I'm guessing it'll be too expensive for the average teenager to get. Honestly, if I was a teenager interested in this set, I'd be too embarrassed to ask my parents to buy it for me. Then again, I guess people who understand shame aren't their target demo either.
Clearly they jumped on the available trademark and now are trying to make it look like gak in hopes people will think it's GW and be turned off of them. Plus I can't link the pick of the special preorder figure, but my eyes are burning now. Duct tape nipple armor .
I thought the top two terminators looked really good - till your eye scrolls down and sees the others and confirms that it isn't tight fitting armor-plates - it is in fact bikini space armor.
Honestly that was my initial thought. I mean it just seems like a giant poke in the bear's eye. GW not keeping up trademarks/copyrights? Let's use Space Crusade! Man a lot of 40k players want new sisters or female marines. Let's do it!
Alpharius wrote: This is one of those "This is bad, and you should feel bad if you like it" kind of things, isn't it?
Yes, like a bus crash, everyone slows down to see the carnage. There will be people who buy it just because it's so bad, and then the boob collectors .
Alpharius wrote: This is one of those "This is bad, and you should feel bad if you like it" kind of things, isn't it?
Well, I wouldn't really go that far, but... what's the point really. I mean, when we're in a world where, you know, the internet exists, and there's perfectly good porn out there, if you want it?
I know Games Workshop games have always been somewhat tongue in cheek and cheesy, but I don't think a full on parody of a game is going to work as an actual game of its own. Especially when it only really has one joke. Though, people bought miniatures of flying butts, right? So who knows.
Mama Nurgle and bikes aren't too bad. I can even stand the not-dread. But even being the fan of boobs that I am, I'm still at a loss on most of this one.
A group that have clearly misjudged their target audience.
I dunno, something tells me that this will sell like hot cakes to a certain type of teenage boy as well as those individuals who absolutely want sexualisd female space marines...
I may not love the models, but as expected, I ran them by my wife, and she loves the bike ones, and wants me to order some eventually.
One doesn't need to be a "Men's Rights" nut, or a teenage boy, to like a certain aesthetic.
Wow, the models are stunningly awful and the name is pure cynical exploitation. I am sickened. I've been eyeing up the AvP game for a while but I definitely can't support Prodos if they pull gak like this.
Oddly I would have to swap out all this bad cheesecake for at least decent cheesecake, probably the ones done by wargameexclusive. At least I would have something to finally use those miniatures with. LOL!
Dark Severance wrote: Oddly I would have to swap out all this bad cheesecake for at least decent cheesecake, probably the ones done by wargameexclusive. At least I would have something to finally use those miniatures with. LOL!
OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote: I wonder if these have been done by somebody who's teamed up with Prodos to manufacture them
That is why I asked about Archon Studio. Prodos is listed as only 'manufacturing' the miniatures so not sure if they designed them or someone else did and this is like what they did with Demigods miniatures.
This is possibly one of the most ill-concieved projects that I have ever seen. Given that Prodos seem to have some monetary issues I cannot see why they invested in this of all games/possible miniature lines. As others have said maybe they are just producing the minis for another company? Amazing stuff, the females are beyond cheesecake.
I can enjoy some decent cheesecake, but this looks more like someone slapped together some cheap processed cheddar and a a dry spongecake and hoped that if you just combined cheese with cake, that would count.
I would guess Prodos is more of a producer/distributor than the designer, this as many minis are rather badly sculpted (apart from also being strangely designed).
This said, there are some gems among the turds.
I would for instance love to have this model (if it survives the transformation from brilliant concept to plastic mini):
I don't know what is the saddest in what I'm seeing:
- That someone designed and asked for these models to be sculpted, without realizing that maybe their definition of sexy may be a lot of other people definition of facepalm material.
- That if they had normal armor they could have been pretty cool and useful models, and it now looks like such a wasted opportunity.
The girl with the wings remind me of the Warzone miniatures I was buying when I was a kid, not in term of clothes but in term of sculpt quality. And let me tell you, the Warzone miniatures from the 90s, they were not what people would call masterpieces...
Archon studios is probably yet another shell company within prodos's seemingly ever shifting corporate structure. As for quality, they probably can't afford the same sculptors as AvP because they have no money.
Dark Severance wrote: Oddly I would have to swap out all this bad cheesecake for at least decent cheesecake, probably the ones done by wargameexclusive. At least I would have something to finally use those miniatures with. LOL!
I'm glad I'm not alone in thinking this.
If the game is decent, that is definitely the first thing I would be doing. Pulling out those really bad set for really great cheesecake. I mean if you are going to do cheesecake do it right, because what they did.. just isn't right. LOL!
Via the Eldritch Epistle blog - from the Bryan Ansell collection - GW minatures or at least some of their parts that were not meant to be shown to the public
Warhams-77 wrote: Via the Eldritch Epistle blog - from the Bryan Ansell collection - GW minatures or at least some of their parts that were not meant to be shown to the public
UNCLEBADTOUCH wrote: Archon studios is probably yet another shell company within prodos's seemingly ever shifting corporate structure. As for quality, they probably can't afford the same sculptors as AvP because they have no money.
Thanks for the reminder - I knew I'd seen it somewhere - on the AvP thread (14 Oct 2015), Jarek wrote:
Warzone Resurrection wrote:Prodos is divided into 2 companies:
1st one is stand alone, self sufficient, casting power house called Archon, it's based in Poland and makes resin minis for Prodos as for other companies.
2nd is the Prodos Games, the company that sale the product world wide.
And on the same thread on the 18th August 2015, Mark Rapson wrote:
WFG DRMR wrote:Prodos Games has no owners in the UK and yet another company owned by ProdosGames and Jarek's father in Poland (pila) called Archon Games.
Would of been nice if it was something more in the vein of John of Arc/Sisters of battle/Saber, with a sort of female night vibe. The chain mail bikini look is prety uninspired at best, and cringe worthy at worst. I feel these hit both thows marks.
They look like charaters from a bad Heavy Metal Comic, trying to rip off 40k.
=/
Edit:
Are they fighting Chaos Space Whores on the box art cover? Way to double dip on the cringe.
I think what this new version of Space Crusade really needs is more exposure. With the right distribution partner, Prodos could get copies of Space Crusade in toy stores, even adverts for it on TV! Just think, it will be the gateway for kids to get immersed in the rich universe behind Space Crusade and be hooked on the greater Prodos hobby. A partner like, say... Milton Bradley?
Praise Nurgle wrote: I think what this new version of Space Crusade really needs is more exposure. With the right distribution partner, Prodos could get copies of Space Crusade in toy stores, even adverts for it on TV! Just think, it will be the gateway for kids to get immersed in the rich universe behind Space Crusade and be hooked on the greater Prodos hobby. A partner like, say... Milton Bradley?
More likely a porn site......
Actually are we missing it and this Game is a game about a porn parody of classic space crusade?
Praise Nurgle wrote: I think what this new version of Space Crusade really needs is more exposure. With the right distribution partner, Prodos could get copies of Space Crusade in toy stores, even adverts for it on TV! Just think, it will be the gateway for kids to get immersed in the rich universe behind Space Crusade and be hooked on the greater Prodos hobby. A partner like, say... Milton Bradley?
The saddest thing about these is that could have been great if PG hadn't felt the need to cheesecake the feth out of them. The mechanical parts of the Not-SM bikes, Terminators and Dreadnaught all look quite excellent, and better than GW's ageing efforts IMO.
I think one of the more annoying things with this, if you actually go through and put them in fully armour with the female heads, some of these would be quite nice, the chaos oblits for example have great heads based on the paintwork as shown, but they just look ridiculous as they are.
Dark Eldar and Daemon counts as, there would at least be some kind of acceptable part to the models, but when its supposed to be representing power armour or better, it just looks pants on the head daft, and I'm not a stranger to having the odd scantly clad female fig in my collection.
Although on saying all of that, with some of the talk of their previous Kickstarter, I doubt I would trust them anyway even if they did go back to the drawing board.
Bottle wrote: I'm not sure what confuses me most about the boob-terminators:
- the lack of chest armour
- that the storm shields are all upside down?
- that they only have 3 fingers???
You forgot the missing-for-some-reason buttplates. It's like a neverending facepalm, like watching videos of idiots doing stupid gak and knowing within seconds it's going to end with a groin injury.
sing your life wrote: The saddest thing about these is that could have been great if PG hadn't felt the need to cheesecake the feth out of them. The mechanical parts of the Not-SM bikes, Terminators and Dreadnaught all look quite excellent, and better than GW's ageing efforts IMO.
Yep. A lot of wasted effort IMO.
The design seems pretty cool on some of the stuff but it's just too ridiculous.
If you have to go cheescake (since no one has ever done models like that right, big opportunities there guys, right?),
then do models that's at least internally consistent. Having babes in bulky armour but just remove some pieces to expose their bikinis... in a way it's kinda insulting to have these things being marketed towards me.
I guess this might still just be a elaborate trolljob by Prodos. It would be a pretty epic one if true.
Ahahaha, thank you for this marvelous information. I really had a good laugh.
Seriously, these miniatures are awesome. I nearly want to buy some of those, telling my friend I'm going back to play Space Marines in W40k and show up with an army of Tit Marines.
Come on, it's totally sexist and silly, but the parody is just too good. "What could we add to Space Marines so that they sell more? BOOBS OF COURSE!"
I'm particularly fond of the "variants"; Space Marine, Assault Marine, Bike Marine, Dreadnought Marine, Terminator Marines...god, it just shows how boring and uninspiring the GW Space Marines are as miniatures. Prodos may crash with those, but that was totally worth it.
There is no version for Centurians because their absurdity is already at 11
Oblits?! Would'nt have minded havoc or chaos termie megaboob squads, for feths sake! I want to see their not-Abaddon, poorly sculpted metal boobs constantly falling off
I love the Warzone and AvP stuff. Love it to death, will probably buy tons of 'em whenever I get around to finishing the ninety million other things I have to do.
Won't touch this suff with a ten-foot pole. Yeesh. The female Totally-Not-A-Great-Unclean-One is pretty cool, other than that.... no. No.
UNCLEBADTOUCH wrote: Archon studios is probably yet another shell company within prodos's seemingly ever shifting corporate structure. As for quality, they probably can't afford the same sculptors as AvP because they have no money.
Spot on! I suspect this is a naive attempt to move away from the Prodos name (Archon is the name of the Polish set up) after the AVP debacle ...(Prodos is also defunct..as they have pulled out o the UK now I left and the rest of the UK operation was culled or quit)
Also for the record...even though I was a co-owner of Prodos previously I would like to state publicly I have absolutely nothing to do with any aspect of this 'Space Rusade' (Yes Rusade look at the logo) monstrosity...
I just wanted to say I love the Mamoona reference. It's nice to see Poles acknowledging their ancestry instead of expressing out-and-out contempt for the beliefs, customs, and language of their forefathers (*cough*sapkowski*cough*).
They could be digitally coloured renders but colour me unimpressed.
Either way, consider me unimpressed. They all look like something someone with no skill making a fem marine army would look like. A fairly bog standard figure with green stuff sculpted spheres attached to their chests.
Prodos certainly know what they are doing though. They can't complete on their other projects so have decided to go for more nostalgia and tits to hide their shortcomings.
BrookM wrote: Quite so! The box art in particular is trying really hard to capture the (imho) epicness of a boxed game by GW, but rather fails to do so.
Is this part of the Warzone setting or is this a brand new IP?
This is a spin off from the Warzone IP: Whorezone. I can't wait for Prodos' take on the RPG; Whorezone - Pervert Chronicles.
Azazelx wrote: All I can say is I hope people waiting for Warzone and/or AVP stuff get their models before this piece of gak takes down the company entirely.
Very much this. By all accounts Prodos's financials are tight, what with having to go retail to fund the balance of their AvP KS shipping. So with money in short supply, they go and release this? If it bombs then imho the future of Warzone and AvP looks bleak.
UNCLEBADTOUCH wrote: Archon studios is probably yet another shell company within prodos's seemingly ever shifting corporate structure. As for quality, they probably can't afford the same sculptors as AvP because they have no money.
Spot on! I suspect this is a naive attempt to move away from the Prodos name (Archon is the name of the Polish set up) after the AVP debacle ...(Prodos is also defunct..as they have pulled out o the UK now I left and the rest of the UK operation was culled or quit)
Also for the record...even though I was a co-owner of Prodos previously I would like to state publicly I have absolutely nothing to do with any aspect of this 'Space Rusade' (Yes Rusade look at the logo) monstrosity...
Azazelx wrote: All I can say is I hope people waiting for Warzone and/or AVP stuff get their models before this piece of gak takes down the company entirely.
Very much this. By all accounts Prodos's financials are tight, what with having to go retail to fund the balance of their AvP KS shipping. So with money in short supply, they go and release this? If it bombs then imho the future of Warzone and AvP looks bleak.
I wasn't aware of how dire things have became for that company in all honesty.It's baffleing why they would think this is the way to save their finances.
They could be digitally coloured renders but colour me unimpressed.
Either way, consider me unimpressed. They all look like something someone with no skill making a fem marine army would look like. A fairly bog standard figure with green stuff sculpted spheres attached to their chests.
Prodos certainly know what they are doing though. They can't complete on their other projects so have decided to go for more nostalgia and tits to hide their shortcomings.
Bravo.
I think they are a Not Sisters of Battle army. The Dread Knight style giant robot thingy at first glance looked like a walker operated by a pilot who for some reason had to rush out so quickly she did not have time to put any clothes on, but when you look closely, she is in a prisoner crucifixion pose with no support for the feet. The machine itself has fleur-de-lys in its decoration. I think it is a Not Penitent Engine.
I rather like the idea of a walker frame fork lift operated by a girl wearing a bikini because it's too hot in the loading bay to wear a full set of clothes. However, it makes absolutely no sense as a weapon carrier.
I hope they do a BoW video series when this releases. It would be fun to see the BoW-crew struggle to be able to maintain their "WOW, AWESOME, GREAT STUFF, etc." levels of enthusiasm about this game.
A bit off topic but; have BoW ever disliked anything?
jorny wrote: I hope they do a BoW video series when this releases. It would be fun to see the BoW-crew struggle to be able to maintain their "WOW, AWESOME, GREAT STUFF, etc." levels of enthusiasm about this game.
A bit off topic but; have BoW ever disliked anything?
I recently made an account on that site to vote in their game of the year awards and made the same observation.
I quickly realized their reviews are mostly pointless since everything is soo cool, fantastic and wonderful. Judging from their "tactics" and play-testing of KoW, they don't seem to bother reading the rules of the games they play either. They would really need a crusty old, right miserable bastard in their crew to point out flaws and act as a counterbalance.
It does depend on whether it's a promoted product or not (they could do with making this clearer).
Most Mantic videos tend to be promoted. - It wouldn't surprise me if most of their non backstage content is. They tended to be a bit more open in their opinions in their backstage videos.
From the sounds of it though, Prodos aren't exactly in a position to afford Beasts of War promotion.
But yeah, it's entertaining trying to read between the lines of their videos and articles, for example this Wulfen article.
His Master's Voice wrote: Hah, the only difference between this and quite a number of KD:M models is the lower sculpt quality.
I wouldn't say so. KD:M sure is cheesecake and OTT but it's a consistent art direction. I wouldn't exactly call it tasteful but at least it's interesting.
This is not-spacemarines with armor plates removed and added boobs n' ass.
Maybe? I have to admit, to me, both are fundamentally tits on a 30mm miniature. Aiming for the same demographic, one just does it better.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not defending Prodos here. The only thing shown that I like are the bikes (and the bikes alone) and the obese, chainaxe wielding hag that exists only in concept art for now. But my lack of interest comes from the lack of quality of the sculpts, not from what the sculpts depict.
His Master's Voice wrote: Hah, the only difference between this and quite a number of KD:M models is the lower sculpt quality.
I wouldn't say so. KD:M sure is cheesecake and OTT but it's a consistent art direction. I wouldn't exactly call it tasteful but at least it's interesting.
This is not-spacemarines with armor plates removed and added boobs n' ass.
and what's much, much worse barely adequately sculpted boobs n' ass
If the sculpts were good I'd shrug and say the style was not for me (although some cheesecake like KD pinups and Raging Heroes is) and wish them luck (if only to help the poor AvP backers get their missing stuff)
His Master's Voice wrote: Hah, the only difference between this and quite a number of KD:M models is the lower sculpt quality.
I wouldn't say so. KD:M sure is cheesecake and OTT but it's a consistent art direction. I wouldn't exactly call it tasteful but at least it's interesting.
This is not-spacemarines with armor plates removed and added boobs n' ass.
and what's much, much worse barely adequately sculpted boobs n' ass
If the sculpts were good I'd shrug and say the style was not for me (although some cheesecake like KD pinups and Raging Heroes is) and wish them luck (if only to help the poor AvP backers get their missing stuff)
as it is it's just sad
My feelings exactly. These have the sort of look you get when Lads put balloons up their jumpers,or hold them over their clothes and call them 'boobies' (guffawing all the time).
Not good in any way shape or form.
Also: Space (c) RUSADE - Who signed off on that awful logo/header?
So they really are just taking a page out of KD's book- hyper sexualize X, sell it to fund shipping. Instead of alternate sculpts of their existing characters, they've went with Space Marines.
Sinful Hero wrote: So they really are just taking a page out of KD's book- hyper sexualize X, sell it to fund shipping. Instead of alternate sculpts of their existing characters, they've went with Space Marines.
The Kingdom of death Pip-up models are sold as display pieces, not a core part of the game. They are a thing on the side, unlike this space crusade game. I think that's why this new game is invokeing so much cringe, because it reaks of being creatively bankrupt.
highlord tamburlaine wrote: It's sad that something like this can see the light of day and HiTech Miniatures couldn't get their gak together and put their game out.
Mission: Katharsis is a fine game indeed, falling halfway between Space Hulk and Betrayal at Calth. Hopefully it sees release eventually.
OT: I can't say I get the vileness for this game paired with the fondness for KD. Infinity has had scantily clad fighting women for years, with exposed midriffs and provocative poses. Heck, one of the earliest, and incidentally best selling, miniatures is a furry in an "insert coin here" invitiational pose. KD pinups are egregious to the extreme, they're a square milimeter of clothing away from tits out-pussy wet hardcore porn shots, and even regular minis have plenty of exposed skin, with some literally bristling with humongous erect penises. Let's not even talk of suggested rape by animals in the setting. Those get a pass and are celebrated. But a game combining sexy girls with 40K suddenly elicits bouts of horror. Certainly the fact that it's Prodos has no bearing on the reception of the theme, nosiree. The hypocrisy that drips from some of these reactions is cloying.
So.. when people ask me what wargaming is. I'll show them these little figurines, right?
That's wargaming right there! OH gosh... the armor.. it's everywhere except where it needs to be be.
No offense Brother Vinni... but these guys have got you beat!
I'm not sure if =Prodos thinks these will sell like hot cakes to all those "miserable, lardy, greasy wargamers out there." Or if they just got a friend of a friend who had this "great" idea!?
The fact I can show these to non-wargamers and get laugh might be on to something.
Dont have a bias for or against Prodos myself. Their AvP miniatures looked quite nice from what I've seen.
As has been mentioned the KD pinups are a supplement to, not a main part of the core game/line. They also follow a more "realistic" form of anatomy(albeit still slightly exaggerated) than Archon's miniatures, who are a part of their main line apparently.
As for the monsters and other parts of the KD setting, they actually make sense as a part of the body-horror imagery they're trying to invoke along the lines of H.R. Giger and other artists.
In what universe would these Space Crusade minis work other than a pre-teen's bikini bash fantasy?
Afternoon all, 5 pages already, wow that was quick.
So yes, we have taken a different approach for this product line, I understand that it may not be everybody cup of tea.
I wont really try to defend it as I don't want to get into any arguments about it. so to put it simply, the game is PG16, the models we have designed are not for every customer ( we know that). As for sales, sadly, SC models are selling better than one of the best WZR release we had have in last 2 years.
Why this approach, well there is lack of this kind of miniatures on the market and we wanted to fill the gap.
Oh and before you ask me why the models are almost armourless, well, they are protected by 2 factors :1st one is pure awesomeness and 2nd, more serious, a force field... after all it's a sci-fi so why we need heavy armour on a miniature if we can have a force field and enjoy a bit of beautiful female body ;/
oh yeas and here is a link to 360 to the model that is causing the most controversy : https://skfb.ly/Ks6O
BrookM wrote: No, obviously the Playboy or Penthouse, pictures work better than pages of nothing but words. Need to ease them into the medium after all.
Sinful Hero wrote: As has been mentioned the KD pinups are a supplement to, not a main part of the core game/line. They also follow a more "realistic" form of anatomy(albeit still slightly exaggerated) than Archon's miniatures, who are a part of their main line apparently.
See, because they're not part of the main line but merely a collector's side line, it makes them totally fine! Just as this, and this, and this, and this, and this are by no means representative of the game, because they don't come in the main box! The excuses are endless!
Sinful Hero wrote: As for the monsters and other parts of the KD setting, they actually make sense as a part of the body-horror imagery they're trying to invoke along the lines of H.R. Giger and other artists.
Let me pitch my idea for a boardgame for a sec - it's about these naked ladies with big tits duking it out, and it's inspired by Goya. It doesn't have a giant holding its oversized junk, but if the love for Saturn Devouring His Son is large enough, I guess I can fit it in! It's not exploitative, nosiree, it's ART! And the reason for the saturation of lurid nudity is explained in the backstory. Honest!
Sinful Hero wrote: In what universe would these Space Crusade minis work other than a pre-teen's bikini bash fantasy?
Don't break your keyboard trying to come out with an excuse for furry porn and Riot Grrl BS in Infinity.
Sinful Hero wrote: As has been mentioned the KD pinups are a supplement to, not a main part of the core game/line. They also follow a more "realistic" form of anatomy(albeit still slightly exaggerated) than Archon's miniatures, who are a part of their main line apparently.
See, because they're not part of the main line but merely a collector's side line, it makes them totally fine! Just as this, and this, and this, and this, and this are by no means representative of the game, because they don't come in the main box! The excuses are endless!
For the record, "Distracted" is a 54mm collector's miniature. The rest in my opinion make more sense as a part of the setting than "because Force Fields".
Sinful Hero wrote: As for the monsters and other parts of the KD setting, they actually make sense as a part of the body-horror imagery they're trying to invoke along the lines of H.R. Giger and other artists.
Let me pitch my idea for a boardgame for a sec - it's about these naked ladies with big tits duking it out, and it's inspired by Goya. It doesn't have a giant holding its oversized junk, but if the love for Saturn Devouring His Son is large enough, I guess I can fit it in! It's not exploitative, nosiree, it's ART! And the reason for the saturation of lurid nudity is explained in the backstory. Honest!
The Forge God and the Wet Nurse are both pretty much the epitome of body horror.
Sinful Hero wrote: In what universe would these Space Crusade minis work other than a pre-teen's bikini bash fantasy?
Don't break your keyboard trying to come out with an excuse for furry porn and Riot Grrl BS in Infinity.
I wasn't about to, but I'm tempted now that you mention it.
Warzone Resurrection wrote: As for sales, sadly,SC models are selling better than one of the best WZR release we had have in last 2 years.
An interesting choice of words...
Hi there, yes, we have been working hard in last 3 years to build and grow an audience for WZR, but surprisingly (and sadly as it's pointing out that MAYBE just maybe our design direction with WZR was wrong) we are selling more.
To answer next question : No we won't change direction of design for WZR, regardless of how good SC will sell.
Source is our web-store and retails newsletter orders...
Warzone Resurrection wrote: As for sales, sadly,SC models are selling better than one of the best WZR release we had have in last 2 years.
An interesting choice of words...
Hi there, yes, we have been working hard in last 3 years to build and grow an audience for WZR, but surprisingly (and sadly as it's pointing out that MAYBE just maybe our design direction with WZR was wrong) we are selling more.
To answer next question : No we won't change direction of design for WZR, regardless of how good SC will sell.
Source is our web-store and retails newsletter orders...
I've always been tempted to buy some WZR models, but a lack of folks to play against have mostly stayed my hand. Maybe when I get the chance I'll do my part to tip the scales back the other way.
if you have more questions regarding the game or gameplay please post it up and I'll try to answer all questions the best I can, or sign up for a monthly newsletter where we will unveil more about it at our web-store @ shop.prodosgames.com.
Thanks again for your feedback on design, much appreciated, as mentioned , please bear in mind that we probably will have to PG16 the game (we have, however in mind less "gore" (Jesus sound like the current one is gore or something!) SC board game in mind for PG13). Thanks
Hi there, yes, we have been working hard in last 3 years to build and grow an audience for WZR, but surprisingly (and sadly as it's pointing out that MAYBE just maybe our design direction with WZR was wrong) we are selling more.
To answer next question : No we won't change direction of design for WZR, regardless of how good SC will sell.
Source is our web-store and retails newsletter orders...
Sad to hear WZR isn't doing as well as it should, will be making sure to pick up those new forces you showed off on Facebook and stepping up the push on the rest of the gaming group .
One thing I'll say about this range is that it's reasonably consistent. WZR suffers from being all over the place, sometimes even within the same faction.
That, and the poses. It's easier to swallow a Dance Dance Revolution show when it's pseudo Daemonetess doing it, compared to Mourning Wolves or Hussars.
Hi there, yes, we have been working hard in last 3 years to build and grow an audience for WZR, but surprisingly (and sadly as it's pointing out that MAYBE just maybe our design direction with WZR was wrong) we are selling more.
To answer next question : No we won't change direction of design for WZR, regardless of how good SC will sell.
Source is our web-store and retails newsletter orders...
Sad to hear WZR isn't doing as well as it should, will be making sure to pick up those new forces you showed off on Facebook and stepping up the push on the rest of the gaming group .
Well, WZR is doing OK I just point out that the SC is selling better Thanks for support anyway, there is more to come for Warzone in next 6 months, the plan is to get really a lot of new shining toys + "hiden" release of miniatures we had sculpted like year ago! Thanks
Automatically Appended Next Post:
His Master's Voice wrote: One thing I'll say about this range is that it's reasonably consistent. WZR suffers from being all over the place, sometimes even within the same faction.
That, and the poses. It's easier to swallow a Dance Dance Revolution show when it's pseudo Deamonetess doing it, compared to Mourning Wolves or Hussars.
Agreed, sadly we had have sometimes 3 sculptors with different styles working on a models for the same fraction, what is good about it, we now have sculptors with almost identical style!
Warzone Resurrection wrote: As for sales, sadly,SC models are selling better than one of the best WZR release we had have in last 2 years.
An interesting choice of words...
Hi there, yes, we have been working hard in last 3 years to build and grow an audience for WZR, but surprisingly (and sadly as it's pointing out that MAYBE just maybe our design direction with WZR was wrong) we are selling more.
To answer next question : No we won't change direction of design for WZR, regardless of how good SC will sell.
Source is our web-store and retails newsletter orders...
I've always been tempted to buy some WZR models, but a lack of folks to play against have mostly stayed my hand. Maybe when I get the chance I'll do my part to tip the scales back the other way.
That's one big issue for us the USA market, the feedback is : Warzone was heavily pushed through distribution in their previous incarnations, and it went out of business 3 times, now it need time to get USA distributors convinced that this time Warzone will stay for a bit longer. But we have a plan B that we are working on to get Warzone more into USA
Unsurprising, really. People have been clamoring for female space marines and/or sisters of battle for years, and you've delivered. I suspect such people outnumber fans of WZR by a large margin.
It's to bad WZR isn't doing well, I bought a ton of models in the kick starter but no one has realy touched the game. I only had one friend consider getting into it, but decided not to after watching the Beasts of War review of it. He felt the vheclies were to fragile were his words.
Lockark wrote: It's to bad WZR isn't doing well, I bought a ton of models in the kick starter but no one has realy touched the game. I only had one friend consider getting into it, but decided not to after watching the Beasts of War review of it. He felt the vheclies were to fragile were his words.
Hi there, thanks for your comment, as mentioned above, Warzone is doing well and it's growing, however we got two releases at the same day SC and WZR and SC is far better seller than WZR :(
WZR 2.0 we are working on will introduce more vehicles (transport) and fast ones, so keep your eyes on it.
Lockark wrote: It's to bad WZR isn't doing well, I bought a ton of models in the kick starter but no one has realy touched the game. I only had one friend consider getting into it, but decided not to after watching the Beasts of War review of it. He felt the vheclies were to fragile were his words.
Hi there, thanks for your comment, as mentioned above, Warzone is doing well and it's growing, however we got two releases at the same day SC and WZR and SC is far better seller than WZR :(
WZR 2.0 we are working on will introduce more vehicles (transport) and fast ones, so keep your eyes on it.
Just sort of mentioning from my experience locally. More vehicles and a second edition would probably get alot more people locally for me to take a fresh look at the game. I like the more infantry/foot sloggy feel of the game ATM, but I think I'm very much in the minority in that respect.
I'm not sure if =Prodos thinks these will sell like hot cakes to all those "miserable, lardy, greasy wargamers out there." Or if they just got a friend of a friend who had this "great" idea!?
Just let me reiterate here. This is equivalent to a bikini DLC for a AAA video game... :(
I'm just going to put it out there, not my cup of tea. But I'm not surprised there is an audience for what is effectively 40K meets playboy
My major concern is the choice of name. We have a Space Crusade board game already in existence by a large war-gaming company that doesn't mind throwing it's lawyers around if they feel their toes being stepped on.
I'd like to ask you guys at Prodos, why choose a name soo similar to an existing product that it could be confused with? I know you guys had a hard time dealing with 20th Century Fox and knowing how annoying legal processes can be, so that you'd choose to be what I perceive as careless in this area again is my area of concern.
***cynic mode engage*** please don't read past this point if you don't want to see some wild ranting bs.
My primary thought is that this provides an avenue to explain delays and pass blame to third parties if again you are unable to meet delivery time frames, like WZR and AvP.
If this happens, I'll be referencing this post just to say I called it. But hey, this is mostly fueled by the pure disappointment of waiting 3 odd years for AvP and not hearing anything useful. Don't worry I'll be surely e-mailing the KS e-mail once the deadline is up so I'm hoping I can get a bit more comms from you guys then. I am just upset to hear money issues for AvP delivery, just to see you paying to churn out a new line off my investment that I've seen no return on.
Hey lets no go OT here, PM me if you have anything useful to say about my AvP order (same KS username as here)
But I'm keen for ya to reply to the post about space crusaderS naming choice.
Warzone Resurrection wrote: ...and 2nd, more serious, a force field... after all it's a sci-fi so why we need heavy armour on a miniature if we can have a force field and enjoy a bit of beautiful female body ;/
Seriously? Covered in a force field? Shame on you.
Compel wrote: It does depend on whether it's a promoted product or not (they could do with making this clearer).
Most Mantic videos tend to be promoted. - It wouldn't surprise me if most of their non backstage content is. They tended to be a bit more open in their opinions in their backstage videos.
From the sounds of it though, Prodos aren't exactly in a position to afford Beasts of War promotion.
But yeah, it's entertaining trying to read between the lines of their videos and articles, for example this Wulfen article.
If BoW is carrying promotional videos without clearly stating which they are, they are breaking the law. There is a big hoo-haa about this in relation to vloggers some months ago. I can't believe BoW would be so unprofessional.
The new Warzone stuff doesn't seem to be the same sculpt quality as the older stuff and the aesthetic seems to have shifted towards the anime end of the spectrum. Perhaps there is a connection.
If BoW is carrying promotional videos without clearly stating which they are, they are breaking the law. There is a big hoo-haa about this in relation to vloggers some months ago. I can't believe BoW would be so unprofessional.
Whose law... Northern Ireland, UK, Republic of Ireland, Europe?
Who gets to decide whether something is obviously promotional or not? It certainly isn't me. It's highly probable I'm just an unobservant moron. It's best to watch a video or two (I recommend the various ones relating to Mantic releases) and make your own decision.
Oh and before you ask me why the models are almost armourless, well, they are protected by 2 factors :1st one is pure awesomeness and 2nd, more serious, a force field... after all it's a sci-fi so why we need heavy armour on a miniature if we can have a force field and enjoy a bit of beautiful female body ;/
That would make sense if they weren't wearing heavy armour on their legs and arms. As is, nope, sorry, that's a nonsense excuse for having boobs out just for the sake of having boobs out.
If they were styled in a way that the lack of armour made sense, they would be fine. Just leaving chest and butt armour off looks ridiculous.
Lockark wrote: It's to bad WZR isn't doing well, I bought a ton of models in the kick starter but no one has realy touched the game. I only had one friend consider getting into it, but decided not to after watching the Beasts of War review of it. He felt the vheclies were to fragile were his words.
Hi there, thanks for your comment, as mentioned above, Warzone is doing well and it's growing, however we got two releases at the same day SC and WZR and SC is far better seller than WZR :(
Not to pile on, but it's probably best not to talk about sales figures when your shop uses live stocking. Your box set seems to have sold a mighty 5 boxes, so if it's selling "far better" than WRZ, and you think Warzone is doing well then you are far more easily pleased than I am
I don't see why KD is considered sexualized. I pledged for three whole items without a breast between them.
If these Space Rusade minis had full armor, even boob plate with bat nipples, they would have been much more tempting. Makes me want to go back and check up on Ragin Shiroz and see if they ever made it to retail with any of their decent minis.
agnosto wrote: The sad thing to me is that the models are technically well done; I could certainly see myself buying them if they had complete armor.
That's actually my favorite thing about them; the sculpt quality looks good, executed well with nice paint jobs. Selling them with separate core armor pieces might please a wider audience.
BobtheInquisitor wrote: I don't see why KD is considered sexualized. I pledged for three whole items without a breast between them.
If these Space Rusade minis had full armor, even boob plate with bat nipples, they would have been much more tempting. Makes me want to go back and check up on Ragin Shiroz and see if they ever made it to retail with any of their decent minis.
I regret not getting any KD stuff. I wouldn't say that they are totally non sexualized, but I like their sensibilities. Particularly how zaftig the ladies are...
I wont really try to defend it as I don't want to get into any arguments about it. so to put it simply, the game is PG16, the models we have designed are not for every customer ( we know that). As for sales, sadly, SC models are selling better than one of the best WZR release we had have in last 2 years.
Thank you for coming here, by the way.
Honestly, I really like the miniatures of SC - to me, they're not any less believable than Space Marines in gothic armors. They look pretty much detailed and someone saying it's "a bad sculpt" isn't, IMHO, really honest with himself. I wonder if there will be more expansions exploring other factions or if it will just be these two.
Like you said, games don't have to be made for everyone. Seems like a lot of people have troubles to even imagine something wasn't made for their taste. Guess that means that if it's not good for them, then it mustn't be good for everyone else.
I'm not surprised it sells well. Only people in denial wouldn't have seen that coming, anyway.
highlord tamburlaine wrote: It's sad that something like this can see the light of day and HiTech Miniatures couldn't get their gak together and put their game out.
Having never been able to play or own a copy of Space Crusade, I'd have been tempted if this had been a bit toned down.
You'd be better off trawling ebay. Even a copy sans models would work, considering the models we all own these days.
BobtheInquisitor wrote: I don't see why KD is considered sexualized. I pledged for three whole items without a breast between them.
If these Space Rusade minis had full armor, even boob plate with bat nipples, they would have been much more tempting. Makes me want to go back and check up on Ragin Shiroz and see if they ever made it to retail with any of their decent minis.
I regret not getting any KD stuff. I wouldn't say that they are totally non sexualized, but I like their sensibilities. Particularly how zaftig the ladies are...
Yeah, I showed my wife the white speaker that came free with the order and she was pretty happy that the body type was more...familiar. If you want one of the Kingsmen, let me know. Most of The KD minis coming to me will be more along the lines of creepy baby hands than enormous genitals.
OT: I can't say I get the vileness for this game paired with the fondness for KD. Infinity has had scantily clad fighting women for years, with exposed midriffs and provocative poses. Heck, one of the earliest, and incidentally best selling, miniatures is a furry in an "insert coin here" invitiational pose. KD pinups are egregious to the extreme, they're a square milimeter of clothing away from tits out-pussy wet hardcore porn shots, and even regular minis have plenty of exposed skin, with some literally bristling with humongous erect penises. Let's not even talk of suggested rape by animals in the setting. Those get a pass and are celebrated. But a game combining sexy girls with 40K suddenly elicits bouts of horror. Certainly the fact that it's Prodos has no bearing on the reception of the theme, nosiree. The hypocrisy that drips from some of these reactions is cloying.
I own perhaps a half-dozen Infinity models, and no KD:M models at all. Though relatively few Infinity models are actually cheesecake. Regardless, despite being gratuitous, both Infinity and KDM models are exquisitely sculpted, while these are by and large ...not.
Unsurprising, really. People have been clamoring for female space marines and/or sisters of battle for years, and you've delivered. I suspect such people outnumber fans of WZR by a large margin.
No, they really haven't. These are a different thing.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Probably worth pointing out here - I own a gakload of Raging Heroes models, and I won't even begin to try to argue that many of them aren't sexualised. The main difference is that they're much more practical, less childishly gratuitous, and the sculpt quality is much, much higher.
I feel a great disturbance in the Warp; it is as if thousands of SJWs and their politically correct allies had a simultaneous brain aneurysm.
Won't preorder on the account of the publisher having a spotty record, but will buy once they hit retail (if ever). Just to make a point supporting companies whose products piss the right kind of people off.
I like me some 28mm cheese cake, in face I have entire armies devoted to it, but geeze.... I agree that raging heroes now appears to be the high ground when it comes to ridiculous female figures, which is hilarious.
The amount of back pain the terminators must experience...
That said, I kind of like the bikers, and one of the good side ones as a gladiator or wacked out chaos follower might find a home with me. Not likely to buy three though.
Olgerth Istaarn wrote: I feel a great disturbance in the Warp; it is as if thousands of SJWs and their politically correct allies had a simultaneous brain aneurysm.
Won't preorder on the account of the publisher having a spotty record, but will buy once they hit retail (if ever). Just to make a point supporting companies whose products piss the right kind of people off.
SJWs? How about people who just like well sculpted models that don't have moronic designs? Odd you're going to buy the models to spite faceless people on the internet that you'll never meet, for the sake of childish internet arguments. Then again, people say they'll do a lot of things that they never do.
Oh and before you ask me why the models are almost armourless, well, they are protected by 2 factors :1st one is pure awesomeness and 2nd, more serious, a force field... after all it's a sci-fi so why we need heavy armour on a miniature if we can have a force field and enjoy a bit of beautiful female body ;/
That would make sense if they weren't wearing heavy armour on their legs and arms. As is, nope, sorry, that's a nonsense excuse for having boobs out just for the sake of having boobs out.
If they were styled in a way that the lack of armour made sense, they would be fine. Just leaving chest and butt armour off looks ridiculous.
You have no imagination insaniak, what if that's not armour but actually the shield generators which need to be placed at the extremities of the thing you are trying to protect? And maybe the shield generators reflect a lot of heat back at the user so they wear almost no clothes to keep cool?
Sure, it's just a nonsense excuse to have boobs. But half the point of Fantasy and Sci Fi is to have nonsense excuses for things, you can write some background that makes no sense in the real world and then use the "because magic" or "because advanced technology" excuse to make it happen.
Granted, I'm not a huge fan of these models.... but as stupid as I think they are they're copping more flak purely because boobs which I also find silly, there's a lot of other stupid concepts in wargaming (and sci-fi/fantasy worlds in general) that cop less flak and there's a lot of other models which may not fit everyone's tastes but instead of getting hounded for it, it just gets ignored.
But because boobs there has to be an in depth discussion of them instead of any other silly wargaming concept which people would otherwise just ignore.
Azazelx wrote: I think the issue is because they have bad design and bad sculpting, not because boobs.
Well apart from the fact "bad design/sculpting" is subjective, do you really expect any system with bad design and bad sculpting to rack up 7 pages of discussion in 2 days? Normally if something has bad design and/or bad sculpting they'll just get ignored, or maybe a few posts of "I don't like it because of bad design and bad sculpting".
But because boobs we have 7 pages of that discussion.
Maybe I'm just being cynical in my thought that people are excessively focused on attacking things they don't like when those things contain boobs, perhaps it's just my imagination.
Oh and before you ask me why the models are almost armourless, well, they are protected by 2 factors :1st one is pure awesomeness and 2nd, more serious, a force field... after all it's a sci-fi so why we need heavy armour on a miniature if we can have a force field and enjoy a bit of beautiful female body ;/
That would make sense if they weren't wearing heavy armour on their legs and arms. As is, nope, sorry, that's a nonsense excuse for having boobs out just for the sake of having boobs out.
If they were styled in a way that the lack of armour made sense, they would be fine. Just leaving chest and butt armour off looks ridiculous.
You have no imagination insaniak, what if that's not armour but actually the shield generators which need to be placed at the extremities of the thing you are trying to protect? And maybe the shield generators reflect a lot of heat back at the user so they wear almost no clothes to keep cool?
Sure, it's just a nonsense excuse to have boobs. But half the point of Fantasy and Sci Fi is to have nonsense excuses for things, you can write some background that makes no sense in the real world and then use the "because magic" or "because advanced technology" excuse to make it happen.
Granted, I'm not a huge fan of these models.... but as stupid as I think they are they're copping more flak purely because boobs which I also find silly, there's a lot of other stupid concepts in wargaming (and sci-fi/fantasy worlds in general) that cop less flak and there's a lot of other models which may not fit everyone's tastes but instead of getting hounded for it, it just gets ignored.
But because boobs there has to be an in depth discussion of them instead of any other silly wargaming concept which people would otherwise just ignore.
Can you give some examples?
Specifically examples that are poorly sculpted but also pandering to their perceived audience in the most cynical way imaginable, but that didn't get bashed by the community?
I realise that Western culture has been pedaling garbage under the guise of 'fighting political correctness' since the early 90s but we don't have to accept swill, especially when there are so many excellent options available to us now.
Like tits on your minis? There are dozens and dozens of better examples. This has nothing to do with prudishness.
Azazelx wrote: I think the issue is because they have bad design and bad sculpting, not because boobs.
Well apart from the fact "bad design/sculpting" is subjective, do you really expect any system with bad design and bad sculpting to rack up 7 pages of discussion in 2 days? Normally if something has bad design and/or bad sculpting they'll just get ignored, or maybe a few posts of "I don't like it because of bad design and bad sculpting".
But because boobs we have 7 pages of that discussion.
Maybe I'm just being cynical in my thought that people are excessively focused on attacking things they don't like when those things contain boobs, perhaps it's just my imagination.
Umm, backlash equates to quality in your mind?
Defiance Games produced garbage for a few years, then stole people's money. Lots of pages about that company and its shoddy product.
The craft of sculpting is not subjective. These are poor examples of that craft.
The design equivalent of yelling "take their tops off!" at the sculptors is not subjective. By the standards of sexualised miniatures, and with no judgment placed on that genre, these are shoddy, frankly condescending examples.
Azazelx wrote: I think the issue is because they have bad design and bad sculpting, not because boobs.
This.
I have no problem at all with boobs on a miniature so long as the design makes sense. But these just look silly. They're the sort of thing I would expect from a teenager trying to launch his own 'edgy' miniatures line, not something that I would expect to see an established company even so much as consider approving for production.
Azazelx wrote: I think the issue is because they have bad design and bad sculpting, not because boobs.
Witness:
Spoiler:
I own all of these (and more). I would not buy these Prodos models in a pink fit.
I don't think the sculpts are objectively bad, it's more that the design are super uninspired. To be brutally honest, they are creatively devoid. The fact they have sold so well, more speaks to how appealing to the lowest common denominator will always make you money. That's Michael Bay movies in a nut shell.
Olgerth Istaarn wrote: I feel a great disturbance in the Warp; it is as if thousands of SJWs and their politically correct allies had a simultaneous brain aneurysm.
Won't preorder on the account of the publisher having a spotty record, but will buy once they hit retail (if ever). Just to make a point supporting companies whose products piss the right kind of people off.
SJWs? How about people who just like well sculpted models that don't have moronic designs? Odd you're going to buy the models to spite faceless people on the internet that you'll never meet, for the sake of childish internet arguments. Then again, people say they'll do a lot of things that they never do.
Speaking of Michael Bay, I bet he liked the Transformer movies too.
Azazelx wrote: I think the issue is because they have bad design and bad sculpting, not because boobs.
This.
I have no problem at all with boobs on a miniature so long as the design makes sense. But these just look silly. They're the sort of thing I would expect from a teenager trying to launch his own 'edgy' miniatures line, not something that I would expect to see an established company even so much as consider approving for production.
It's late here.....I just took medicine.....and I'm agreeing with Cats........
Dentry wrote: I don't necessarily agree that sculpt quality is bad. The Artemis model, among others, looks well done.
I'll give you that one on the sculpting. I'll retain my opinion that the design is bad (I don't like Warjacks, either) but yes, the sculpting on that one is objectively quite decent to good. The GUO and the one that has a joker face alt sculpt are also decently sculpted. I think the not-space marines with ball bearing boobs are the bigger offenders.
Maybe I'm just being cynical in my thought that people are excessively focused on attacking things they don't like when those things contain boobs, perhaps it's just my imagination.
Well, there's also the "Space Crusade" factor. I'm actually a big fan of boobs. I prefer them on humans, but hey, I don't mind them on models either when I think they're done well in a manner that appeals to me (so RH but not KD:M). But much if it is back and forth as they seem to be getting defended a bit more aggressively and irrationally than usual. Witness the guy above that said he'd happily buy them because he wants to piss "SJWs" off. Um.. okay? It's also an unusual and amusing topic.
If BoW is carrying promotional videos without clearly stating which they are, they are breaking the law. There is a big hoo-haa about this in relation to vloggers some months ago. I can't believe BoW would be so unprofessional.
Whose law... Northern Ireland, UK, Republic of Ireland, Europe?
Who gets to decide whether something is obviously promotional or not? It certainly isn't me. It's highly probable I'm just an unobservant moron. It's best to watch a video or two (I recommend the various ones relating to Mantic releases) and make your own decision.
The decision of whether a piece is a promotion comes from whether you are commissioned to produce it and give the commissioning company editorial control. The various categories of advertorial, supported editorial and other forms of promotion are explained in the UK ad industry guidelines. I presume, but don't know, that other countries have similar laws.
plastictrees wrote: Specifically examples that are poorly sculpted but also pandering to their perceived audience in the most cynical way imaginable, but that didn't get bashed by the community?
I don't recall being that specific as "pandering to their perceived audience", aren't all miniatures "pandering to their perceived audience"? My contention was simply that there are TONS of badly sculpted miniatures out there that just simply never get discussed, and when they do infrequently come up in a thread they typically get ignored. It's hard to come up with a specific example because such threads typically pop up and then disappear in to obscurity
Umm, backlash equates to quality in your mind?
I don't know where you came up with that. Either I poorly communicated my thoughts or you have some really bad reading comprehension. I equated the 7 pages of responses in 2 days with controversial boobs, not quality
Anyway, this discussion is off-topic and I apologise so I'll stop talking about it.
Olgerth Istaarn wrote: I feel a great disturbance in the Warp; it is as if thousands of SJWs and their politically correct allies had a simultaneous brain aneurysm..
Yes, the problem with embarrassingly designed miniatures like this is everyone who dislikes them is a 'social justice warrior' or 'politically correct', these little green faces confuse me, which one is the rolly eyes smiley?
I sell 'nude' miniatures, the sight of a boob doesn't bother me, the fact that the 'only' selling point of these childish monstrosities is 'look , terribly sculpted boobs!' bothers me.
Our hobby is adults playing with toy soldiers, I mean it's an uphill battle to be any kind of cool, but Jesus, do we have to humour miniatures that are basically a really creepy 12yr old's wet dream?
Whether you like any miniature is a personal, aesthetic opinion. My main issue here is that 2 years later a boatload of KS backers are yet to see any of their AVP pledges an age after the
boxed game and other bits have gone to retail. Prodos, or whatever subsidiary name they are acting under, are not to be trusted with your hobby money however much you are a fan if the Space Rusade miniatures.
Can't see this having delays like AvP (and this is from someone that waited ages for that game) there won't be any lisencing shenanigans with this one looks like a straight release.
Lockark wrote: It's to bad WZR isn't doing well, I bought a ton of models in the kick starter but no one has realy touched the game. I only had one friend consider getting into it, but decided not to after watching the Beasts of War review of it. He felt the vheclies were to fragile were his words.
Hi there, thanks for your comment, as mentioned above, Warzone is doing well and it's growing, however we got two releases at the same day SC and WZR and SC is far better seller than WZR :(
Not to pile on, but it's probably best not to talk about sales figures when your shop uses live stocking. Your box set seems to have sold a mighty 5 boxes, so if it's selling "far better" than WRZ, and you think Warzone is doing well then you are far more easily pleased than I am
Bad form to quote yourself but it's kind of amusing that live stocking has disappeared from your website this morning. I'm sure that's just a coincidence
It's a bit sad that things have got to the point that it's impossible to discuss wargame figure design without SIWs bringing accusations of SJWism into the thread.
Kilkrazy wrote: It's a bit sad that things have got to the point that it's impossible to discuss wargame figure design without SIWs bringing accusations of SJWism into the thread.
I've seen what something actually being "impossible to discuss" looks like, what we have here barely qualifies as a polite disagreement.
Speaking of polite, the figures illustrated here are a joke. The armor designs are ludicrous, and executed with enough skill that the person responsible should know better. I'm not super impressed with Prodos deciding clumsily ride on someone else's name recognition with designs that barely reach the lofty heights of "uninspired". It sounds an awfully cynical way of conducting business to me.
Agamemnon2 wrote: I've seen what something actually being "impossible to discuss" looks like, what we have here barely qualifies as a polite disagreement.
He didn't say it's impossible to discuss it, he said it's impossible to discuss it "without SIWs bringing accusations of SJWism into the thread".
People were discussing it, and someone brought SJWism into it, so he's right and you're wrong.
I agree with all the negative comments about the "bewbs for bewbs sake", but but it is interesting to see a company with such big brass balls that they so obviously put out a game that is 100% ripped off of 40K.
I mean, Good God, could they insert at least ONE original idea? Damn, Prodos, it's quite impressive.
This COULD have been a good general release, and isn't as bad as is being made out. I suspect the reason people have reacted so negatively to the release as a whole, is because the OP's example mainly had the worst images (the titmarines) and little else in it. They're working off a visceral reaction to the worst shots, without having investigated and noted that the daemonette stuff isn't too bad.
The daemonette style equivalents are reasonable as for as sculpts go, if quite cheesecake. But you'd expect that of daemonettes, so not such a problem there:-
Spoiler:
There's a nice Great Unclean One:-
Spoiler:
Generally speaking, whilst the Oblits counts as are slightly over the top gratuitious, you can still just about pass that off as being daemonic, etc. They have a slightly robotic vibe to them too, I could see you passing them off as something more cyberpunk.
Spoiler:
The counts as Penitent Walker/Dread is a good model or my book. She's not wearing much, but she's not showing much either. Much like the original Penitent Walker. I've put the two together for comparison.
Spoiler:
But then.....you hit the space marine/sisters counts as. And these are just objectively BAD. It's one thing to say, 'evil space demons representing the raw lust of humanity' as a reason for cheesecake. Waving off 'well, forcefields' as the reason the humans are same is just sloppy. It's quite literally a porn star in a bikini holding a gun. It could be the paintjob, but it feels like sloppier sculpting too. I looked at that walker above and thought it was quite nice. I look at the titminators or porn saint, and they just seem lower calibre.
Spoiler:
In short, I think the daemon version just about work. They're a little cheesecakey, but not really any worse than a Diaz Daemonette. The human equivalents though? Complete flop. I would highly suspect that when Prodos are talking about the sales figures above, it would be the daemonettes that are selling well, but not so much the Boob crusaders from the planet Bikini.
It's just a horrible rip-off of a game, in every facet from name to models.
Some other company should come out with a game called War-Zone, which is all cheesecake models that exactly ape a selection of Capitol vs. Dark Legion designs, but with boobies.
SlaveToDorkness wrote: Has anyone else noticed that these aren't even "models" but colored renders 'shopped onto pictures of bases?
Looks like a mixture of both to me, the Artemis (guess how happy I am about that ) is obviously a coloured render, probably the chaos bikes too, the porn marines look more like painted prints.
SlaveToDorkness wrote: Has anyone else noticed that these aren't even "models" but colored renders 'shopped onto pictures of bases?
yes. The bikes look pretty suspect. The riders look to be 'real' but the machines look to be renders.
Looking at their website says this is shipping after the 23rd feb. Why not say shipping from the 24th feb? Am I being too pedantic or is it wise to be wary of prodos and their shipping times (AVP etc).
AegisGrimm wrote: Some other company should come out with a game called War-Zone, which is all cheesecake models that exactly ape a selection of Capitol vs. Dark Legion designs, but with boobies.
I really don't care about boobies on the minis, it is one factor that makes me less likely to buy but I understand they are a factor that attracts others. But when I see poor designs, such as the bikes:
Spoiler:
I see piss poor design. Even in Sci Fi Magic World, if you're putting on exhaust pipes, it is because the bike creates exhaust, and pipes get damned hot. Riding bare legged gets you big painful burns. And having ammo belts flapping around is just stupid. They would get twisted, caught up in the engine/transmission, in the forks. Not to mention, less than 20 ready rounds per gun is silly in itself.
Why must Sci Fi equate to 'really gakky designs because Sci Fi!?
Yeah, the daemon stand-ins work because they're supposed to represent the darkest recesses of the human mind. I think those do a decent job of being unnatural and repulsive for the exaggeration of what would normally be physical beauty. If I was starting a Chaos force with a Slaanesh theme, they'd be interesting for variety at least. I'm not, but they'd certainly have a place there. Makes me kind of surprised that RH didn't already do that, honestly.
Unfortunately it appears that the idea of "Civilized Order vs. Base Animal Instincts" got missed in the game's design notes and they made both sides the same. I don't like the human designs much at all, because I found GW's SoB already veering towards the edge "Boobs for the Boob God!" as it was. The force-field hand-waving doesn't work for me; my arms, which I can survive losing both of, have heavy plate on them but the vitals are not covered at all? Even if I had a force-field I would want my "backup defense" on the things that if I lose them I die.
Throw in that Prodos is making it after jerking around their KS backers, and yeah...even at retail I'm not sure I'd be interested in the daemonette-marines.
In the Space Rusade universe the Not-Marines replicate through a process of gene splicing. These genes are harvested from the Seeds that are planted in the women's chests and are not ripe for harvesting until they are the size of Watermelons (big ones, not those artisian little softball sized ones). The process takes time and sees many difficulties throughout the process. The process cannot be done on male subjects as that would be silly.....and no men would ever take to the battlefield if he had a set of these seeds to play with. If the Seeds don't get enough sunlight they will not develop, also a restrictive environment where they are not allowed to expand to their full potential can cause the seeds to corrupt and turn heretical. One side effect of the seed growth is that the women lose their pigmentation during the procedures, which is why they must be digitally repainted. So if you look at them correctly Prodos has made something completely unique to the far future where everything is not sunshine and rainbows.
CptJake wrote: I really don't care about boobies on the minis, it is one factor that makes me less likely to buy, but when I see the bikes:
I see piss poor design. Even in Sci Fi Magic World, if you're putting on exhaust pipes, it is because the bike creates exhaust, and pipes get damned hot. Riding bare legged gets you big painful burns. And having ammo belts flapping around is just stupid. They would get twisted, caught up in the engine/transmission, in the forks. Not to mention, less than 20 ready rounds per gun is silly in itself.
Why must Sci Fi equate to 'really gakky designs because Sci Fi!?
People ride bikes with exposed headers wearing shorts all the time. It's not a good idea, but they do. It does depend on how the header pipes are routed. Also you can heat shield pipes, I'm sure in a futuristic world of shield generators that allow you to not wear armour on your torso they can come up with exhaust heat shielding that is mildly better than what we already have today.
Ammo belts flapping, yeah, doesn't sound that practical though compared to much of what you see in 40k it's not that bad.
As for the number of bullets, these are going for the same aesthetic as 40k with absurdly large calibre guns. When you have large calibre guns you tend to not be able to carry a lot of ammo.
CptJake wrote: I really don't care about boobies on the minis, it is one factor that makes me less likely to buy, but when I see the bikes:
I see piss poor design. Even in Sci Fi Magic World, if you're putting on exhaust pipes, it is because the bike creates exhaust, and pipes get damned hot. Riding bare legged gets you big painful burns. And having ammo belts flapping around is just stupid. They would get twisted, caught up in the engine/transmission, in the forks. Not to mention, less than 20 ready rounds per gun is silly in itself.
Why must Sci Fi equate to 'really gakky designs because Sci Fi!?
People ride bikes with exposed headers wearing shorts all the time. It's not a good idea, but they do. It does depend on how the header pipes are routed. Also you can heat shield pipes, I'm sure in a futuristic world of shield generators that allow you to not wear armour on your torso they can come up with exhaust heat shielding that is mildly better than what we already have today.
Ammo belts flapping, yeah, doesn't sound that practical though compared to much of what you see in 40k it's not that bad.
As for the number of bullets, these are going for the same aesthetic as 40k with absurdly large calibre guns. When you have large calibre guns you tend to not be able to carry a lot of ammo.
I'm looking specifically at these bikes and riders, and the pipes will be burning legs.
As for 40K bikes, their designs are crap too, but that is not what this thread is about. I could as easily have brought up Infinity bikes that clearly use future tech but attempt to have reasonable/realistic designs making use of that tech. These Prodos bikes look like they are using today's tech, they have no futuristic design elements at all. And as such grading their design the way I have is fair. They are poor designs.
I quite like the good faction bikers. I also like several of the heads (especially the pink mohawk girl) and would like to see them attached to either fully armored or lightly armored bodies or available as part.
But as pointed out, what here is a filled render and what is a painted miniature. Moreover, it's Prodos, a company we've all seen in 'glorious' action in previous KS for AVP.
If you are worried about being an adult man playing with toy soldiers and looking cool while doing it... You're a fool. Whether you field a GD-worthy army of the most sensible and well built minis or these boob demons... You are still an adult male playing with toy soldiers. You've already lost the "cool" battle to a myriad other hobbies. So might as well stop worrying about it.
If, on the other hand, you feel the extreme desire to shout "sexism! Degradation of women! Burn it in a holy fire!" Then, my friend, that's your inflamed political correctness showing. The good news is that you are in lock-step with the times. The bad? Quite simply, who are you to judge, really, what someone chooses to sculpt, paint or sell? We are still talking about bits of plastic, metal and resin here. If you don't like it, ignore it and move on, and find something more real and harmful to be outraged about. If Prodos is putting out bad product, then surely nobody will buy it and it will go away on its own, courtesy of the almighty dollar and without any help from you whatsoever.
To wit: If there were fewer attempts to police everything accordingly to the ever-evolving standards set by, frankly, tumblr-level mentality, then there would likely be fewer ceremonial nose-thumbings at the said policing. Not that Prodos is doing any of the sort mind you, they are just trying to make a buck. But the outrage around this is hilarious, really.
Olgerth Istaarn wrote: If you are worried about being an adult man playing with toy soldiers and looking cool while doing it... You're a fool. Whether you field a GD-worthy army of the most sensible and well built minis or these boob demons... You are still an adult male playing with toy soldiers. You've already lost the "cool" battle to a myriad other hobbies. So might as well stop worrying about it.
If, on the other hand, you feel the extreme desire to shout "sexism! Degradation of women! Burn it in a holy fire!" Then, my friend, that's your inflamed political correctness showing. The good news is that you are in lock-step with the times. The bad? Quite simply, who are you to judge, really, what someone chooses to sculpt, paint or sell? We are still talking about bits of plastic, metal and resin here. If you don't like it, ignore it and move on, and find something more real and harmful to be outraged about. If Prodos is putting out bad product, then surely nobody will buy it and it will go away on its own, courtesy of the almighty dollar and without any help from you whatsoever.
To wit: If there were fewer attempts to police everything accordingly to the ever-evolving standards set by, frankly, tumblr-level mentality, then there would likely be fewer ceremonial nose-thumbings at the said policing. Not that Prodos is doing any of the sort mind you, they are just trying to make a buck. But the outrage around this is hilarious, really.
I'm seeing little to no actual outrage over the sexism here, a bit of facepalming certainly, but the huge negative feedback, and something that I tend to agree with, is the really weird blend of superheavy armor and bared tits, which makes these difficult to love. People taking issue with this as 'liberal outrage' are sort of missing the point...
Olgerth Istaarn wrote: If you are worried about being an adult man playing with toy soldiers and looking cool while doing it... You're a fool. Whether you field a GD-worthy army of the most sensible and well built minis or these boob demons... You are still an adult male playing with toy soldiers. You've already lost the "cool" battle to a myriad other hobbies. So might as well stop worrying about it.
If, on the other hand, you feel the extreme desire to shout "sexism! Degradation of women! Burn it in a holy fire!" Then, my friend, that's your inflamed political correctness showing. The good news is that you are in lock-step with the times. The bad? Quite simply, who are you to judge, really, what someone chooses to sculpt, paint or sell? We are still talking about bits of plastic, metal and resin here. If you don't like it, ignore it and move on, and find something more real and harmful to be outraged about. If Prodos is putting out bad product, then surely nobody will buy it and it will go away on its own, courtesy of the almighty dollar and without any help from you whatsoever.
To wit: If there were fewer attempts to police everything accordingly to the ever-evolving standards set by, frankly, tumblr-level mentality, then there would likely be fewer ceremonial nose-thumbings at the said policing. Not that Prodos is doing any of the sort mind you, they are just trying to make a buck. But the outrage around this is hilarious, really.
If you like these models, that's fine. Different strokes for different folks. What I find hilarious is we've had two posters so far essentially say there's some huge politically correct flummox over sexism, when it's more just folks sharing their criticisms over the models.
CptJake wrote: I really don't care about boobies on the minis, it is one factor that makes me less likely to buy, but when I see the bikes:
I see piss poor design. Even in Sci Fi Magic World, if you're putting on exhaust pipes, it is because the bike creates exhaust, and pipes get damned hot. Riding bare legged gets you big painful burns. And having ammo belts flapping around is just stupid. They would get twisted, caught up in the engine/transmission, in the forks. Not to mention, less than 20 ready rounds per gun is silly in itself.
Why must Sci Fi equate to 'really gakky designs because Sci Fi!?
People ride bikes with exposed headers wearing shorts all the time. It's not a good idea, but they do. It does depend on how the header pipes are routed. Also you can heat shield pipes, I'm sure in a futuristic world of shield generators that allow you to not wear armour on your torso they can come up with exhaust heat shielding that is mildly better than what we already have today.
Ammo belts flapping, yeah, doesn't sound that practical though compared to much of what you see in 40k it's not that bad.
As for the number of bullets, these are going for the same aesthetic as 40k with absurdly large calibre guns. When you have large calibre guns you tend to not be able to carry a lot of ammo.
I'm looking specifically at these bikes and riders, and the pipes will be burning legs.
The pipes are routed forward and down under the pegs, it's hard to see where they kick up at the rear and whether it's close enough to burn the calves.... but as I said, heat shielding. Even with today's technology I could design you heat shields that would get the exposed part of a pipe down to the point where they're hot to the touch but won't damage your skin.
As for 40K bikes, their designs are crap too, but that is not what this thread is about. I could as easily have brought up Infinity bikes that clearly use future tech but attempt to have reasonable/realistic designs making use of that tech. These Prodos bikes look like they are using today's tech, they have no futuristic design elements at all. And as such grading their design the way I have is fair. They are poor designs.
I don't particularly think they're great designs and it's fine to not like a design for no other reason that "I don't like it".... but I also think your analysis was "meh" at best.
"These minis make no sense" argument is also invalid.
We play in a setting where regular guys, equipped worse than your average Joe Infantryman in Iraq, fight and win battles in hostile environments against enemies with supernatural powers. Where one of the greatest heroes rides into battle on a rocket sled pulled by giant wolves (and accompanied by supermen riding more giant wolves). Where the best armor ever made would make it damn near impossible to slowly walk, much less fight in, had it existed in real life.
40k makes no sense, and this model range, clearly intended to parody/rip off/fanservice the setting is under no obligation to make sense either.
We play in a setting where regular guys, equipped worse than your average Joe Infantryman in Iraq, fight and win battles in hostile environments against enemies with supernatural powers. Where one of the greatest heroes rides into battle on a rocket sled pulled by giant wolves (and accompanied by supermen riding more giant wolves). Where the best armor ever made would make it damn near impossible to slowly walk, much less fight in, had it existed in real life.
40k makes no sense, and this model range, clearly intended to parody/rip off/fanservice the setting is under no obligation to make sense either.
There are a fair few who object to santa and his wolf drawn sleigh. For its failings though it doesn't have the look of marbles slapped onto a torso. YMMV.
The Space Rusade good ladies are pretty sub par. Not quite but getting close to GW's Dark Eldar Slave girls for ridiculousness.
We play in a setting where regular guys, equipped worse than your average Joe Infantryman in Iraq, fight and win battles in hostile environments against enemies with supernatural powers. Where one of the greatest heroes rides into battle on a rocket sled pulled by giant wolves (and accompanied by supermen riding more giant wolves). Where the best armor ever made would make it damn near impossible to slowly walk, much less fight in, had it existed in real life.
40k makes no sense, and this model range, clearly intended to parody/rip off/fanservice the setting is under no obligation to make sense either.
We play in a setting where regular guys, equipped worse than your average Joe Infantryman in Iraq, fight and win battles in hostile environments against enemies with supernatural powers. Where one of the greatest heroes rides into battle on a rocket sled pulled by giant wolves (and accompanied by supermen riding more giant wolves). Where the best armor ever made would make it damn near impossible to slowly walk, much less fight in, had it existed in real life.
40k makes no sense, and this model range, clearly intended to parody/rip off/fanservice the setting is under no obligation to make sense either.
There are a fair few who object to santa and his wolf drawn sleigh. For its failings though it doesn't have the look of marbles slapped onto a torso. YMMV.
The Space Rusade good ladies are pretty sub par. Not quite but getting close to GW's Dark Eldar Slave girls for ridiculousness.
The Dark Eldar slave girls is far less ridiculous than these. They're dressed in reasonable slavegirl attire (if anything one can question the decision to have them at all and the quality of the sculpting of their faces, which is a bit rough if I recall correctly).
It's the naked (hah) cynisism of these Prodos figures* that's offensive to me. Not in the least the nudity as such.
One, the shrill caw of the PC crowd. See above as to what I think of that.
Two, people scared that they will somehow be seen as less cool for owning/fielding these, or afraid of ruffling their girlfriends/wives feathers. To them I say, you've already lost the battle.
Three, people who dislike the art style and/or quality. Horses for courses, of courses.
And finally, those who say "power armor and naked torsos? Nonsense, hogwash and poppycock!" Those I would happily point at the Santa Wolf and a myriad of other outrageously nonsensical elements of 40k that undermine the entire setting, and yet are 100 percent canon. If those who write the setting can do this to their own product, then whinging about how a ripoff/parody product is nonsensical in concept is, well, nonsense.
The Space Rusade good ladies are pretty sub par. Not quite but getting close to GW's Dark Eldar Slave girls for ridiculousness.
There is a C in the name....its surrounding the R....its...kinda obviously there...We can do better than making fun of what is actually pretty good design on a name.
And...man..we have all seen much worse sculpts then these. The sculpts are not that bad.
Also..there are way worse things to be offended about. Dog fights or chines girls being sold into slavery etc etc. This is really minor. Good on Prodos for filling a niche that some people have been asking for years. I hope they sell very well and Prodos makes a ton of money so that they can fulfill all the outstanding avp orders. Good on you for coming into this thread WARZONE PEOPLE and defending your stuff.
I never understand why people are so eager for a company to fail when they are doing a thing they like. How does their miniatures affect your life in such a way that the first thing you can do is hope
They get sued by GW (THE COMPANY WE ALL PROFESS TO HATE!! because they are colossal donkey-caves to every other miniature company out there [see chapterhouse])
Go out of business (This is there job people..have some sympathy)
They all burn in hell.....because...sexual miniatures equal eternal condemnation? Raging heroes is gonna be surprised when they die....
All of those ideas were mentioned in this thread. Some more than once.
If you don't like the miniature....just don't buy it; Like I did with the wulfen which I think are very stupid looking. But if I made a post saying there dumb..it would be one post long....
I'm pretty sure that the people pointing out the ridiculousness of these designs are quite happy doing the same with that horrible space wolf santa-sleigh. The wolf sleigh is nonsensical, and it does demean the 40k universe. It's suckyness doesn't make tit-marines any better of a concept.
Do you get the impression that people who think these sculpts are bad and are critisising them do so out of some misguided veneration of the 40k fluff?
One, the shrill caw of the PC crowd. See above as to what I think of that.
Two, people scared that they will somehow be seen as less cool for owning/fielding these, or afraid of ruffling their girlfriends/wives feathers. To them I say, you've already lost the battle.
Three, people who dislike the art style and/or quality. Horses for courses, of courses.
And finally, those who say "power armor and naked torsos? Nonsense, hogwash and poppycock!" Those I would happily point at the Santa Wolf and a myriad of other outrageously nonsensical elements of 40k that undermine the entire setting, and yet are 100 percent canon. If those who write the setting can do this to their own product, then whinging about how a ripoff/parody product is nonsensical in concept is, well, nonsense.
Olgerth Istaarn wrote: If you are worried about being an adult man playing with toy soldiers and looking cool while doing it... You're a fool. Whether you field a GD-worthy army of the most sensible and well built minis or these boob demons... You are still an adult male playing with toy soldiers. You've already lost the "cool" battle to a myriad other hobbies. So might as well stop worrying about it.
If, on the other hand, you feel the extreme desire to shout "sexism! Degradation of women! Burn it in a holy fire!" Then, my friend, that's your inflamed political correctness showing. The good news is that you are in lock-step with the times. The bad? Quite simply, who are you to judge, really, what someone chooses to sculpt, paint or sell? We are still talking about bits of plastic, metal and resin here. If you don't like it, ignore it and move on, and find something more real and harmful to be outraged about. If Prodos is putting out bad product, then surely nobody will buy it and it will go away on its own, courtesy of the almighty dollar and without any help from you whatsoever.
To wit: If there were fewer attempts to police everything accordingly to the ever-evolving standards set by, frankly, tumblr-level mentality, then there would likely be fewer ceremonial nose-thumbings at the said policing. Not that Prodos is doing any of the sort mind you, they are just trying to make a buck. But the outrage around this is hilarious, really.
Wow. The edginess is so sharp, my mind can't grasp it without being cut. You showed those PC SJW's what's what alright! Standing up for the man!
Or is that fighting the man? I lose track sometimes....
Can we please drop the PC/SJW thread? Save that for your Men's Rights rallies.
can't believe the Luddites of the 21st century have infected dakka as well.
I do not think anyone is offended by these models. I am ceirtanly not. I think they are stupid yes, but it is more a thing of seeing the same stupid tropes reiturgitated time and time again.
And do not worry, no one is taking your underboobs away from you. Finally, before anyone drags out the freedom of expression card: No one is denying anyone the right to express themselves, and one big part of freedom of expression is the right to say that you do not like something.
jorny wrote: I do not think anyone is offended by these models. I am ceirtanly not. I think they are stupid yes, but it is more a thing of seeing the same stupid tropes reiturgitated time and time again.
And do not worry, no one is taking your underboobs away from you. Finally, before anyone drags out the freedom of expression card: No one is denying anyone the right to express themselves, and one big part of freedom of expression is the right to say that you do not like something.
SlaveToDorkness wrote: Has anyone else noticed that these aren't even "models" but colored renders 'shopped onto pictures of bases?
Looks like a mixture of both to me, the Artemis (guess how happy I am about that ) is obviously a coloured render, probably the chaos bikes too, the porn marines look more like painted prints.
Oh my. Looking at them with greater scrutiny, I have to agree that the Artemis definitely has some kind of image manipulation going. The base image might be a physical model or the artwork/render for it. Disappointing. But, as noted, others certainly appear to be actual painted minis.
Yeah, again... There's no social justice warrioring(?) going on, but it does seem we've awoken the MRA, who've bravely shown up to fight against something that isn't actually here, in this thread.
I think some of you have your fedoras on too tightly...
The Space Rusade good ladies are pretty sub par. Not quite but getting close to GW's Dark Eldar Slave girls for ridiculousness.
There is a C in the name....its surrounding the R....its...kinda obviously there...We can do better than making fun of what is actually pretty good design on a name.
And now back to the ranting
Please. Its a poor attempt at something which is a fairly popular - maybe overused - design element.
I didn't realise that the reason I thought the models looked stupid was because of my hatred of sexism, I just thought that I thought they looked stupid. I'm so glad Olgerth Istaarn was here to explain that to me.
Olgerth Istaarn wrote: If you are worried about being an adult man playing with toy soldiers and looking cool while doing it... You're a fool. Whether you field a GD-worthy army of the most sensible and well built minis or these boob demons... You are still an adult male playing with toy soldiers. You've already lost the "cool" battle to a myriad other hobbies. So might as well stop worrying about it.
If, on the other hand, you feel the extreme desire to shout "sexism! Degradation of women! Burn it in a holy fire!" Then, my friend, that's your inflamed political correctness showing. The good news is that you are in lock-step with the times. The bad? Quite simply, who are you to judge, really, what someone chooses to sculpt, paint or sell? We are still talking about bits of plastic, metal and resin here. If you don't like it, ignore it and move on, and find something more real and harmful to be outraged about. If Prodos is putting out bad product, then surely nobody will buy it and it will go away on its own, courtesy of the almighty dollar and without any help from you whatsoever.
To wit: If there were fewer attempts to police everything accordingly to the ever-evolving standards set by, frankly, tumblr-level mentality, then there would likely be fewer ceremonial nose-thumbings at the said policing. Not that Prodos is doing any of the sort mind you, they are just trying to make a buck. But the outrage around this is hilarious, really.
Remember when there were 500 articles about the crazy mens rights groups all trying to boycott Fury Road because of Furiosa, and it turned out to have been 1 bloke on a blog that nobody reads?
This is like the opposite of that. It seems you've brought your agenda to the wrong argument. Just copy/paste it into a text file or something and bust it out again the next time you see such horrible political correctness. Sooner or later it'll be relevant I'm sure.
jorny wrote: I do not think anyone is offended by these models. I am ceirtanly not. I think they are stupid yes, but it is more a thing of seeing the same stupid tropes reiturgitated time and time again.
And do not worry, no one is taking your underboobs away from you. Finally, before anyone drags out the freedom of expression card: No one is denying anyone the right to express themselves, and one big part of freedom of expression is the right to say that you do not like something.
I think some people were actully slightly offended by the models, but it wasn't because of them being degrading to woman to anything like that. They were offended by the cynicism of prodos to create something so creatively devoid.
And finally, those who say "power armor and naked torsos? Nonsense, hogwash and poppycock!" Those I would happily point at the Santa Wolf and a myriad of other outrageously nonsensical elements of 40k that undermine the entire setting, and yet are 100 percent canon. If those who write the setting can do this to their own product, then whinging about how a ripoff/parody product is nonsensical in concept is, well, nonsense.
So people can't dislike particular silly models because GW makes other silly models?
Olgerth Istaarn wrote: If you are worried about being an adult man playing with toy soldiers and looking cool while doing it... You're a fool. Whether you field a GD-worthy army of the most sensible and well built minis or these boob demons... You are still an adult male playing with toy soldiers. You've already lost the "cool" battle to a myriad other hobbies. So might as well stop worrying about it.
...
...
If you think playing with toy soldiers isn't cool, you are rather out of touch.
Wargaming has been used in the gritty spy thriller Quiller as a metaphor for the conflict between vicious killers.
jorny wrote: I do not think anyone is offended by these models. I am ceirtanly not. I think they are stupid yes, but it is more a thing of seeing the same stupid tropes reiturgitated time and time again.
And do not worry, no one is taking your underboobs away from you. Finally, before anyone drags out the freedom of expression card: No one is denying anyone the right to express themselves, and one big part of freedom of expression is the right to say that you do not like something.
I think some people were actully slightly offended by the models, but it wasn't because of them being degrading to woman to anything like that. They were offended by the cynicism of prodos to create something so creatively devoid.
Exactly this.
'Cynisism', and 'devoid of creativity' encapsulates my feelings quite well about these models.
It doesn't help that model lines like these, as long as they remain the norm rather than the exception of female representation, reinforce the outward appearance of miniature gaming as a non-inclusive boys-club.
Can I go on record as saying I 'am' offended that sexist dog gak like this still gets released by a reasonably large company?
And make no mistake, these 'are' sexist. 'Sexualised' would be sticking them in form fitting suits or giving them all blowouts and boob plate, 'sexist' is just removing the torso and butt armour, 3 ribs, and going 'Look, Boobs!'. See also childish and sad.
I don't find 'sexualised' miniatures a problem, we're all adults. I find nonsense like this, however, quite pathetic and an embarrassment to the hobby in general.
RedSarge wrote: Well as controversial as these models are. I'm waiting for a scale comparison photo, amazed they missed that one.
It's almost unheard of for miniature companies to put out scale comparisons until potential customers badger them about it a bunch of times. I've never understood it, since it's always the first and most persistent questions about every model line, so one would think the industry would have learned by now. It's similar to the unwritten rule that a miniature company should never supply a picture of the sprues or component that makes up the finished models.
In this particular case, I guess some of the models might not even exist in physical form, so that would explain the lack of comparasion pics I suppose.
Zywus wrote: I'm pretty sure that the people pointing out the ridiculousness of these designs are quite happy doing the same with that horrible space wolf santa-sleigh. The wolf sleigh is nonsensical, and it does demean the 40k universe. It's suckyness doesn't make tit-marines any better of a concept.
Do you get the impression that people who think these sculpts are bad and are critisising them do so out of some misguided veneration of the 40k fluff?
As a case in point - the Santa Space Wolf is stupid.
*EDIT* Somewhere out there is a version being pulled by reindeer....
So is giving women terminator armor shoulders and legs, then hoping that a space bikini will protect her vitals....
Dumb, dumb, design.
And I, for one, have a fair number of topless female miniatures in my collection - PC has nothing to do with saying that a bad design is a bad design.
If you thing that anything, anything AT ALL can be "embarrassing" to the hobby...
If you need to invoke movies and celebrities to prove (mostly to yourself) that you are still "cool" for playing with minis...
Then you've got bigger issues than tit-marines, friend.
What in the world is "cool" anyway? Your mom saying that you are cool? A range of gratuitously sexualized minis isn't going to damage this hobby's image, trust me... And neither your ardent repudiation of the said range will score you points "wid da ladies".
See, if this was just a bad model range, it would garner a couple pages of people saying " well, this range sucks" and moving on. Instead, it seems that the boob demons have gotten under quite a few people's skin. Hint: if you are unable to say "well, this is bad" and move on, you cut a rather amusing figure.
Now remember what I said in the my first post? I'm supporting this because it pisses the right kind of people off. Now please, go ahead and tell me, extensively and eloquently, about how wrong I am.
If you thing that anything, anything AT ALL can be "embarrassing" to the hobby...
If you need to invoke movies and celebrities to prove (mostly to yourself) that you are still "cool" for playing with minis...
Then you've got bigger issues than tit-marines, friend.
What in the world is "cool" anyway? Your mom saying that you are cool? A range of gratuitously sexualized minis isn't going to damage this hobby's image, trust me... And neither your ardent repudiation of the said range will score you points "wid da ladies".
See, if this was just a bad model range, it would garner a couple pages of people saying " well, this range sucks" and moving on. Instead, it seems that the boob demons have gotten under quite a few people's skin. Hint: if you are unable to say "well, this is bad" and move on, you cut a rather amusing figure.
Now remember what I said in the my first post? I'm supporting this because it pisses the right kind of people off. Now please, go ahead and tell me, extensively and eloquently, about how wrong I am.
We both know you want to.
Well, I feel your point is wrong, plus your reasoning for defending this is just trolling, but your not under my skin, welcome to the ignore list . Have yourself a grand time at the LGS bragging how you backed this venture just to tick people off.
If you thing that anything, anything AT ALL can be "embarrassing" to the hobby...
If you need to invoke movies and celebrities to prove (mostly to yourself) that you are still "cool" for playing with minis...
Then you've got bigger issues than tit-marines, friend.
What in the world is "cool" anyway? Your mom saying that you are cool? A range of gratuitously sexualized minis isn't going to damage this hobby's image, trust me... And neither your ardent repudiation of the said range will score you points "wid da ladies".
See, if this was just a bad model range, it would garner a couple pages of people saying " well, this range sucks" and moving on. Instead, it seems that the boob demons have gotten under quite a few people's skin. Hint: if you are unable to say "well, this is bad" and move on, you cut a rather amusing figure.
Now remember what I said in the my first post? I'm supporting this because it pisses the right kind of people off. Now please, go ahead and tell me, extensively and eloquently, about how wrong I am.
We both know you want to.
Well, I feel your point is wrong, plus your reasoning for defending this is just trolling, but your not under my skin, welcome to the ignore list . Have yourself a grand time at the LGS bragging how you backed this venture just to tick people off.
Now I'm trying to Imagen the awkward conversation when he shows up with his fully painted set of Space Crusaders at a LGS, telling people they need to play this new game that sticks it to the "SJW's".
Throw in that Prodos is making it after jerking around their KS backers, and yeah...even at retail I'm not sure I'd be interested in the daemonette-marines.
This is the nicest possible way you could put it. As someone who still hasn't seen anything from my AvP KS pledge, it's just blow after blow; Issues getting sign off from 20th century fox, issues with manufacturing as much as is required, issues getting things shipped, issues paying for things to be shipped. All the while AvP boxes sit in retail stores, and now they slap us in the face again and launch a new range of miniatures! I say us because if you wander over to Prodos forums there is no shortage of backers waiting on product.
I've mainly dealt with the excessive delay by forgetting I even paid for AvP, but seeing this rehashed copy cat line up claiming to be ready for release on the 23rd of Feb while a huge number of KS backers still wait is just too much.
Moral of the story, don't you dare pre-order this stuff from Prodos! They couldn't ship a coffee cup from one end of their office to the other
/rant all I can do is laugh at this and carry on waiting, 15th of Feb we at least get a dedicated e-mail address that we can ask about our KS orders and maybe...... just maybe someone over at Prodos will reply.
@Olgerth Istaarn
"Hint: if you are unable to say "well, this is bad" and move on, you cut a rather amusing figure"
See, if this was just a bad model range, it would garner a couple pages of people saying " well, this range sucks" and moving on.
That's what would normally happen, yes.
However in this case, it garnered several pages of people saying 'well, this range sucks' and then spawned ongoing discussion when people started chiming in assuming that all of the people claiming to dislike the models were doing so solely to be politically correct.
Sometimes, discussion happens. That's not inherently a bad thing. Ultimately, a discussion on why people dislike these models is more productive than 3 pages of people just saying 'Hey, these suck!'
If you thing that anything, anything AT ALL can be "embarrassing" to the hobby...
If you need to invoke movies and celebrities to prove (mostly to yourself) that you are still "cool" for playing with minis...
Then you've got bigger issues than tit-marines, friend.
What in the world is "cool" anyway? Your mom saying that you are cool? A range of gratuitously sexualized minis isn't going to damage this hobby's image, trust me... And neither your ardent repudiation of the said range will score you points "wid da ladies".
See, if this was just a bad model range, it would garner a couple pages of people saying " well, this range sucks" and moving on. Instead, it seems that the boob demons have gotten under quite a few people's skin. Hint: if you are unable to say "well, this is bad" and move on, you cut a rather amusing figure.
Now remember what I said in the my first post? I'm supporting this because it pisses the right kind of people off. Now please, go ahead and tell me, extensively and eloquently, about how wrong I am.
We both know you want to.
Supporting something "because it pisses people off" isn't being any better then the ones your chastising.
But, my opinion is the models suck because the sci fi range doesn't need any of it. Nothing new
Olgerth Istaarn wrote: A range of gratuitously sexualized minis isn't going to damage this hobby's image, trust me...
Only because the hobby's image has already been damaged and people just assume models like that are representative of the hobby and the community as a whole.
And neither your ardent repudiation of the said range will score you points "wid da ladies".
Personal experience disagrees with you.
See, if this was just a bad model range, it would garner a couple pages of people saying " well, this range sucks" and moving on. Instead, it seems that the boob demons have gotten under quite a few people's skin. Hint: if you are unable to say "well, this is bad" and move on, you cut a rather amusing figure.
So where is the line then? Is there any point at which a product is too tasteless and offensive that people are finally allowed to do more than just say "well, this is too bad" and move on? Or is criticism never acceptable?
Now remember what I said in the my first post? I'm supporting this because it pisses the right kind of people off. Now please, go ahead and tell me, extensively and eloquently, about how wrong I am.
So you admit that you're a troll then? That you're doing something just to provoke a reaction from people?
If you thing that anything, anything AT ALL can be "embarrassing" to the hobby...
If you need to invoke movies and celebrities to prove (mostly to yourself) that you are still "cool" for playing with minis...
Then you've got bigger issues than tit-marines, friend.
What in the world is "cool" anyway? Your mom saying that you are cool? A range of gratuitously sexualized minis isn't going to damage this hobby's image, trust me... And neither your ardent repudiation of the said range will score you points "wid da ladies".
See, if this was just a bad model range, it would garner a couple pages of people saying " well, this range sucks" and moving on. Instead, it seems that the boob demons have gotten under quite a few people's skin. Hint: if you are unable to say "well, this is bad" and move on, you cut a rather amusing figure.
Now remember what I said in the my first post? I'm supporting this because it pisses the right kind of people off. Now please, go ahead and tell me, extensively and eloquently, about how wrong I am.
insaniak wrote: However in this case, it garnered several pages of people saying 'well, this range sucks' and then spawned ongoing discussion when people started chiming in assuming that all of the people claiming to dislike the models were doing so solely to be politically correct.
Well, to defend myself, I said this thread grew so quickly because boobs, I never said that was the dislike of the models was because of boobs, simply that if it weren't boobs it wouldn't have garnered nearly as many replies. And the discussion was 7 pages in, 7 pages which accumulated very quickly before I made that observation.
Just... Wow. I have never seen models so bad before in my fifteen or so years of wargaming. They are so bad it doesn't even anger or annoy me that people defend them; it is just embarrassing.
This is the wargaming equivalent of DOA, it could be the greatest game in the world and I still wouldn't play it.
As Ashiraya says above, its just embarrassing, not because OMG boobs! but because its the kind of thing that can potentially push people away from the hobby if it was their first exposure (hurr hurr) to wargaming, its gratuitous with absolutely no justification for it.
KD (for example) at least can justify it, its a body horror game but this...sheesh.
DOA kind of grew into the monster it became. Not altogether subtley mind you, since at the beginning it was all about dat ass - and boobs.
For Prodos Space Crusade is an obvious smash and grab. Using a beloved name of old to alternative demonettes and an alternative GUO (Which isn't that bad a sculpt) should have resulted in almost every post being 'shut up and take my money!'
Then they doubled down and slapped extra mammaries on the figures and expected it to be cheesecake all the way.
Why are the Demon boobs more 'realistic' than whatever the good side got? Who looked at them side by side and thought, you know. The scanty armour girls need monster tits and the demons can have normal cheesecake sized funbags?
And we don't know if these are just vapourware from a company that has struggled to provide product to its previous KS backers. There is no definite release date. There are no actual shots of resin or plastic.
Lets also mention Rusade. God! it makes my eyes itch to look at that logo. Just put the C before the friggin R!
Actually think some of those daemonettes and bikers are pretty cool and would be of interest to a lot of 40k chaos players, opening post should have pics of them maybe ?
Olgerth Istaarn wrote: If you are worried about being an adult man playing with toy soldiers and looking cool while doing it... You're a fool. Whether you field a GD-worthy army of the most sensible and well built minis or these boob demons... You are still an adult male playing with toy soldiers. You've already lost the "cool" battle to a myriad other hobbies. So might as well stop worrying about it.
If, on the other hand, you feel the extreme desire to shout "sexism! Degradation of women! Burn it in a holy fire!" Then, my friend, that's your inflamed political correctness showing. The good news is that you are in lock-step with the times. The bad? Quite simply, who are you to judge, really, what someone chooses to sculpt, paint or sell? We are still talking about bits of plastic, metal and resin here. If you don't like it, ignore it and move on, and find something more real and harmful to be outraged about. If Prodos is putting out bad product, then surely nobody will buy it and it will go away on its own, courtesy of the almighty dollar and without any help from you whatsoever.
To wit: If there were fewer attempts to police everything accordingly to the ever-evolving standards set by, frankly, tumblr-level mentality, then there would likely be fewer ceremonial nose-thumbings at the said policing. Not that Prodos is doing any of the sort mind you, they are just trying to make a buck. But the outrage around this is hilarious, really.
Agree with some of what you say, although as has been pointed out a lot of the criticism has been about the miniature sculpts. And, from the fanboys who think GW have an inalienable right to a lisence that was last used in another era.
I will say that there is probably a certain amount of subconscious discomfort with the miniatures, which probably stems in part from 40k becoming utterly de-sexualised in modern times. But, what I will say is that Prodos wouldn't be doing this, nor would Kingdom Death, nor would Brother Vinni constantly be selling inappropriately attired female miniatures if there wasn't a market for it.
Pacific wrote: I will say that there is probably a certain amount of subconscious discomfort with the miniatures, which probably stems in part from 40k becoming utterly de-sexualised in modern times.
I think it has very little to do with the current state of 40k and a lot to do with how we evaluate miniatures like this in general. They wouldn't be getting any more approval if they were something for an entirely different game, and the arguments against them would be exactly the same.
But, what I will say is that Prodos wouldn't be doing this, nor would Kingdom Death, nor would Brother Vinni constantly be selling inappropriately attired female miniatures if there wasn't a market for it.
The fact that they're in demand doesn't mean we should approve of them. If anything this demand should be something the community is embarrassed about.
The fact that they're in demand doesn't mean we should approve of them. If anything this demand should be something the community is embarrassed about.
Spot on. I saw the titmarines and my thought was "Oh God, really?". It's not about sexism or that idiots assertion above about SJW's and "Sticking it to the PC brigade" or anything of the sort. I'm not offended or rushing to find offence. Simply that, I find these embarrassing. They make me cringe and its a perfect stereotype of the seedy underside of the wargaming hobby. I can sum up my opinion of these with this: "Not in my game".
To me, I can all too easily imagine the archetypal Cat Piss Man using these regularly who, along with making their opponents eyes water with their stench, probably makes them cringe in various ways (risque names for their models, ingame "sexy talk", inappropriate remarks to others, etc etc).
The fact that they're in demand doesn't mean we should approve of them. If anything this demand should be something the community is embarrassed about.
Spot on. I saw the titmarines and my thought was "Oh God, really?". It's not about sexism or that idiots assertion above about SJW's and "Sticking it to the PC brigade" or anything of the sort. I'm not offended or rushing to find offence. Simply that, I find these embarrassing. They make me cringe and its a perfect stereotype of the seedy underside of the wargaming hobby. I can sum up my opinion of these with this: "Not in my game".
To me, I can all too easily imagine the archetypal Cat Piss Man using these regularly who, along with making their opponents eyes water with their stench, probably makes them cringe in various ways (risque names for their models, ingame "sexy talk", inappropriate remarks to others, etc etc).
I'm not sure it's exactly fair to assume anyone who likes this miniatures is the type of person who refuses to bath and is just generally repellent. People have many different tastes and reasons for liking certain things, and these will be no different(if they ever end up in people's hands anyway).
I'm not sure it's exactly fair to assume anyone who likes this miniatures is the type of person who refuses to bath and is just generally repellent. People have many different tastes and reasons for liking certain things, and these will be no different(if they ever end up in people's hands anyway).
Unfair? Perhaps. But, to me, it's all too easy to imagine that scenario...
I'm not sure it's exactly fair to assume anyone who likes this miniatures is the type of person who refuses to bath and is just generally repellent. People have many different tastes and reasons for liking certain things, and these will be no different(if they ever end up in people's hands anyway).
Unfair? Perhaps. But, to me, it's all too easy to imagine that scenario...
So you can't imagine anyone having a good laugh, and then buying a couple of them because of the sheer ridiculousness? I can, but maybe I just have strange friends.
I can't speak for anyone else, but the more I look at them the funnier they get.
Yes, we should all be embarrassed that someone, somewhere did something that doesn't conform to our private standards of quality and good taste.
Well, judging the size of this thread and the mixture of respondents, I think it is safe to say the general perception of these is that they are poor, cringe worthy, embarrassing and definitely of poor taste.
If you like 'em, knock yourself out. But don't be surprised if they garner negative attention.
my eyes are burning now. Duct tape nipple armor 
