The latest CMON miniature pile that also includes a game! 120 US gets you all this so far, and will probably include quite a bit more by the time it's done.
Spoiler:
and if you already have Zombicide Black Plague, you probably want this.
Actually you probably want this anyway, as it lets you use a bunch of extra heroes and any undead you already own, expanding the game tremendously for a relatively low price.
Will update more as I see fit, unless a gracious mod wants to do it for me...
Its sort of difficult to ascertain what is actually happening in that picture. Is the central party being surrounded by those new creatures or fighting among them as allies?
The central party doesn't seem concerned about the gnomes behind them, like the big blue guy in the foreground doesn't seem concerned about the party behind him.
I am hoping we get a dungeon crawler set in the Zombicide Black Plague world rather than a new season for Zombicide BP. Would be good to get away from the zombies for a while and cross compatible heroes would make everyone happy.
Doesn't seem like a Black Plague sequel because
A) Not a zombie in sight
B) Reusing several hero tropes from the base BP box
Assuming they aren't straying too far from their previous stuff maybe it could be a lightweight RPG or possibly even a skirmish game. But having an iconic Dwarf, Elf, Wizard, Barbarian, Knight, Rogue party and a variety of baddies in the image? Dungeon crawl seems like a pretty safe guess.
By Monolith, the guys behind the Conan board game. They are having a KS for Mythic Battles once Wave 1 of Conan is delivered. Mythic Battles is set in ancient Greece, with Gods and Monsters backing up the regular joes of the day in a board game brawl to the death! Supposed to be Conan crossover material too.
They have cool pics on their Facebook page if interested. Just search Mythic Battles Facebook.
By Monolith, the guys behind the Conan board game. They are having a KS for Mythic Battles once Wave 1 of Conan is delivered. Mythic Battles is set in ancient Greece, with Gods and Monsters backing up the regular joes of the day in a board game brawl to the death! Supposed to be Conan crossover material too.
They have cool pics on their Facebook page if interested. Just search Mythic Battles Facebook.
Sculpts by Stephane Simon too - wow!
Anyway...I still want this one to be a Dungeon Crawler!
I have wanted a dungeon crawl from CMON since they really started churning out board games.
If ever there was a game model for churning out endless expansions, a dungeon crawler really is it.
Hopefully they include the things people wanted Mantic to cover with Dungeon Saga that came out a bit underwhelming- AI opponents, character progression and upgrades, phat lewt...
Guiton art is totally an added bonus for me.
Hopefully we can see some sort of Wrath of Kings tie in!
If they do full co-op, character advancement, random dungeons, post-dungeon town shenanigans and Black Plague crossovers, they'll have a real shot at beating their funding record. I think everyone would throw money at it.
I'm just thinking of the KOW army potential out of any dungeon crawl. Seriously they could do an Orc army for dirt cheap and better quality than Mantic. Kobolds, sure. Gnolls, no problem. Minotaurs, got those too. Just think how many "walk of the dead" style boxes of each race they could sell.
Theophony wrote: I'm just thinking of the KOW army potential out of any dungeon crawl. Seriously they could do an Orc army for dirt cheap and better quality than Mantic. Kobolds, sure. Gnolls, no problem. Minotaurs, got those too. Just think how many "walk of the dead" style boxes of each race they could sell.
I don't think Guillotine was involved in WoK, but agreed any bit of crossover would be great.
I'm not sure if it was a carryover from Confrontation, which I never played, but the combat system in WoK is very elegant, I really like the interplay of the hit charts and modifications. It would be cool to see that or a variant used elsewhere.
Well damn.. The upcoming Rum and Bones sequel already had my wallet hiding behind my leg like a scared dog.. This is just too much.
First. I haven't played Zombicide Black Plague yet since I'm still waiting on my GD English rulebook. The miniatures are insanely good. I primed up two of the figures for DnD and they took the primer and paint like a CHAMP. After the primer was on they are sitting next to the other models from Reaper etc and you'd never know they came out of a board game. The same can be said for B-Sieged.
Second. With my unfamiliarity towards Zombicide from not having that MF rulebook (I'm salty..sorry) I am making an assumption but wouldn't the horde type of mechanic from Zombicide work for an invading horde of greenskins? Again, I'm not certain I am making an assumption about potential similarities.
Third, if this isn't that and is more along the lines of Descent (which would totally fit the CMoN sales strategy), I think I'm in. I don't think we'd see as many models that way vs a re-skin of Zombicide's mechanics though. I would anticipate in that scenario seeing more unique sculpts in batches of 3-5 per..
I really like the art style though. It has a bit of Blizzards' Warcraft visual look.. maybe more pre-WoW though.
Another notion, is if CMoN starts to leverage their Fantasy IPs, they might have enough to start rounding it out into a full on war game. The idea of crossovers is not new to CMoN though, they are always releasing content for this character or that character in R&B or Black Plague or whatever else. Arg.. this is exciting news even though I still want to be mad at CMoN about that book..
You mean the hollowed-out husk of a Souls game with most of the diversity and story stripped out, with a ravening horde of mindless fans who loudly denounce the Souls series in its favour? Tsk tsk.
cincydooley wrote: I can talk about Bloodborne. Who wants to know about Bloodborne? ;-D
Yes please! Insane fan of Dark Souls and From here... maybe it has its own thread?
Don't get too excited... its a card-game, not a miniatures game. That said, the game its based on is incredible, and Eric Lang knows how to design competent, if derivative, games.
cincydooley wrote: I can talk about Bloodborne. Who wants to know about Bloodborne? ;-D
Yes please! Insane fan of Dark Souls and From here... maybe it has its own thread?
Don't get too excited... its a card-game, not a miniatures game. That said, the game its based on is incredible, and Eric Lang knows how to design competent, if derivative, games.
MLaw wrote: Well damn..
The upcoming Rum and Bones sequel already had my wallet hiding behind my leg like a scared dog.. This is just too much.
First. I haven't played Zombicide Black Plague yet since I'm still waiting on my GD English rulebook. The miniatures are insanely good. I primed up two of the figures for DnD and they took the primer and paint like a CHAMP. After the primer was on they are sitting next to the other models from Reaper etc and you'd never know they came out of a board game. The same can be said for B-Sieged.
Second. With my unfamiliarity towards Zombicide from not having that MF rulebook (I'm salty..sorry) I am making an assumption but wouldn't the horde type of mechanic from Zombicide work for an invading horde of greenskins? Again, I'm not certain I am making an assumption about potential similarities.
Third, if this isn't that and is more along the lines of Descent (which would totally fit the CMoN sales strategy), I think I'm in. I don't think we'd see as many models that way vs a re-skin of Zombicide's mechanics though. I would anticipate in that scenario seeing more unique sculpts in batches of 3-5 per..
I really like the art style though. It has a bit of Blizzards' Warcraft visual look.. maybe more pre-WoW though.
Another notion, is if CMoN starts to leverage their Fantasy IPs, they might have enough to start rounding it out into a full on war game. The idea of crossovers is not new to CMoN though, they are always releasing content for this character or that character in R&B or Black Plague or whatever else. Arg.. this is exciting news even though I still want to be mad at CMoN about that book..
1. The minis are perfect for my poor painting skills, and I like the almost cartoony styling.
2. A reskin is perfectly fine, I've considered doing a space hulk version of it with genestealers being zombies, Broodlords being fatties, Genestealers with adrenal glands being runners and Broodlords with carapace armor being the Abominations. Hardest part is to reconfigure the weapons for the 40K versions. Could easily just do orcs(Zombies), savage orcs (runners), trolls (fatties) and giants (abom).
3. I don't see multiple 3-5 model sets happening. I see them doing a Orc tide as 1 season, beast tide as a second season, kobold tide as a third season, gnomes as a fourth and so on. CMoN like their expansions.
I would love to see their wargame version. Like I said earlier though, if they do walk of the dead type boxes I think they'll out Mantic Mantic
I haven't ended up getting of the CMON big box games yet, as the themes just didn't quite hit me - I'm not really a zombie fan (SACRILEGE ) and loved the look of B-sieged but wasn't sure about the game mechanics. A dungeon crawler with fantasy models would be something that I would be really interested in, though!
3. I don't see multiple 3-5 model sets happening. I see them doing a Orc tide as 1 season, beast tide as a second season, kobold tide as a third season, gnomes as a fourth and so on. CMoN like their expansions.
I was thinking of The Others as their model for the smaller batches of 3-5.
silent25 wrote: So.... "Heroic Quest" incoming? Would be sad if it is a Hero Quest style dungeon crawl and comes out before Hero Quest 25th KS does.
And what is this about a Rum and Bones follow-up KS?
Exactly that - there's a Rum and Bones 2 KS launching soon.
But that's not what this teaser picture is for!
I wonder if the R&B2 KS will have zombicide cards for the characters? I bought B-Seiged and we're using those characters in Zombicide but haven't even looked at the rest of B-S yet.
And it seems like it's going to be its own thing. And a Kickstarter. Which means piles of free gak.
Which is great, because if CMON play their cards right, could break all their previous records- both in terms of free junk getting given out, money made, add ons available...everything.
Maybe it's time we all start cozying up to our own Cincy Dooley and seeing if we can loosen his tongue a bit?
Oof -- let's hope that, unlike MadderDicer (whatever), that MassiveDarkstarter isn't just part of a shared universe, but has the same game designers behind it!
Almost glad it's not Zombicide. Funds are spoken for for the foreseeable future . Though I had a fleeting thought this could also be similar to Talisman.
Hope this is more of a dungeon-crawl rather than a Talisman-type game - has there actually been any info released yet? Has anyone got any blackmail leverage on Cincy to make him spill the beans?
Azazelx wrote: I just hope we get the rest of our Black Plague stuff before they start this new KS campaign.
They've been pretty good with that one so far, was shocked that the main game arrived with me before Xmas actually!
- Bloodborne is for 3-6. Think press your luck, screw your buddies for kills and glory. Plays in under 40 mins. Incredibly fun. Card game.....so far. ;-)
- Would people like to see crossover dashboards for R&B pirates for Black Plague? Sounds like something that could happen....
- Eduard Guiton is the principle artist for both Zombicide and Massive Darkness, and was also the principle for Wrath of Kings.
Yes, the lack of Lasers and robots kind of gave that away. . No cars and machine guns knocked contemporary game out and addition of orcs, minotaurs kind of gave the historical accounts a swift kick to the jimmy.
Is it a solid board game, a hybrid board game or a free for all tabletop mass battle?
I just know there STILL remains a Warhammer Quest sized hole in our industry. Many have tried to fill it, but even the best attempts have been degrees of success only.
True co-op, nice-level of complexity/depth, persistence, leveling + gear/loot, huge tables of random possibilities.... none of these have been done quite right.
I may not always love CMoN offerings, but they do have a business model, and resources, to fill this gap, and do it justice. I'll keep my fingers crossed.
I think the biggest challenge with a Warhammer Quest style game is making sure you have all the correct ingredients out the game and immediately accessible, which is why we haven't seen anyone hit that sweet spot... yet.
Myth could get there, but it plays way more like an MMO and doesn't have the exact same sense of progression. That could change later on.
Dungeon Saga had all the right ingredients but a very half baked co op mode and curious progression that really needs some strict rules refining and polish.
Shadows of Brimstone I think will do it once everything from the Kickstarter has been released. At that point you'll have a large variety of classes, tiles, loot, enemies, events, missions... everything. BUT IT'S NOT FANTASY.
Darklight: Memento Mori looks like it might be a serious contender, if they could just get the pledge level over their current hump and keep unlocking stretch goals.
All those issues could be completely negligible for CMON within the span of a few hours if this is what we think it is and they've got their fingers on gamers' dungeon crawling pulses.
I think the biggest challenge with a Warhammer Quest style game is making sure you have all the correct ingredients out the game and immediately accessible, which is why we haven't seen anyone hit that sweet spot... yet.
Myth could get there, but it plays way more like an MMO and doesn't have the exact same sense of progression. That could change later on.
Dungeon Saga had all the right ingredients but a very half baked co op mode and curious progression that really needs some strict rules refining and polish.
Shadows of Brimstone I think will do it once everything from the Kickstarter has been released. At that point you'll have a large variety of classes, tiles, loot, enemies, events, missions... everything. BUT IT'S NOT FANTASY.
Darklight: Memento Mori looks like it might be a serious contender, if they could just get the pledge level over their current hump and keep unlocking stretch goals.
All those issues could be completely negligible for CMON within the span of a few hours if this is what we think it is and they've got their fingers on gamers' dungeon crawling pulses.
Agreed on almost every count... minus Myth which had such a wretched initial release, and badly written rules that I didn't stick around long enough the follow their revamped rules (which I did hear did a commendable job at fixing things).
As you say CMON could have the game on KS, with a volume of content needed for one of these, and funded to the gills. Its why I feel they are a good fit for this. My only fear would be the publisher erring on the side of "too simple" ala Zombicide, where there really just isn't much meat to the game. They could have infinite volume, but if its thimble deep....
I'm definitely excited for this one and would love to see where it goes. Plus, as you say, CMoN has no issues fulfilling. If they fund ten add-ons, three big-box expansions, etc... I know i'll be having it in my hands within a year, which takes a ton of doubt out of the KS equation (yeah... Shadows of Brimstone is still barely dripping out releases after all this time).
Automatically Appended Next Post: Edit: I'll make a small addendum. Shadows of Brimstone with the Hexcrawl fan mod IS everything I dreamed of, and more.
CMON/Cincy, someone get them to take a look at that fan project and realize THAT is what this genre of game needs to go from novelty to legendary, and played/remembered for decades.
Time will tell if the name is just a coincidence or not, but if it does have anything to do with the Enigma line then I predict that it will do very well indeed, their figures are some of the best around at that scale IMHO.
Nothing new in that line for....a while. Maybe 8 years?
Hope they don't tie themselves down to existing sculpts honestly as good as those are....and assuming this game is what we hope it is.
I would hope that they brought out new sculpts in the same scale as Zombicide, blood rage, B-Sieged and the others. Going for a new scale would be like switching base sizes from 25mm to 32mm
I just want to know if there is gameplay meat on the proverbial bone... because I don't want to get my heart-broken again, like when we thought the AOS game might be a Warhammer Quest revamp.
NewTruthNeomaxim wrote: I just want to know if there is gameplay meat on the proverbial bone... because I don't want to get my heart-broken again, like when we thought the AOS game might be a Warhammer Quest revamp.
NewTruthNeomaxim wrote: I just want to know if there is gameplay meat on the proverbial bone... because I don't want to get my heart-broken again, like when we thought the AOS game might be a Warhammer Quest revamp.
Were details on the AOS game spilled at some point and I wasn't made aware of it?
'Cause I'm still pining on the hope that it's a Quest re-skin.
(Dungeon crawlers and roguelikes are my absolute favorite genre of games, so I pay extra close attention to them- I'm shocked if something got past me.)
NewTruthNeomaxim wrote: I just want to know if there is gameplay meat on the proverbial bone... because I don't want to get my heart-broken again, like when we thought the AOS game might be a Warhammer Quest revamp.
Were details on the AOS game spilled at some point and I wasn't made aware of it?
'Cause I'm still pining on the hope that it's a Quest re-skin.
(Dungeon crawlers and roguelikes are my absolute favorite genre of games, so I pay extra close attention to them- I'm shocked if something got past me.)
Didn't Sad Panda essentially say that like Execution Force and Calth, the current GW board-game focus is on one-offs that won't be expanded, or see rules continuity across multiple projects?
It's unlikely this would be a stretch goal for a KS but more likely to be done as a part of the developing CMON Organized Play program.
What's that? Hopefully not more horrible "Game Night" exclusives for retailers (that get hawked on eBay) that leave those of us who don't play boardgames in stores out in the cold...
It's unlikely this would be a stretch goal for a KS but more likely to be done as a part of the developing CMON Organized Play program.
What's that? Hopefully not more horrible "Game Night" exclusives for retailers (that get hawked on eBay) that leave those of us who don't play boardgames in stores out in the cold...
I mean, I live in London, and it's still a massive faff to visit my "local" games retailer that has a table/space to play. Not to mention that I actually want to play boardgames with friends in a living room, not a collection of strangers. Clearly the additional audience that this niche represents is apparently worth courting by some publishers, but I just don't understand how it financially makes sense.
Really a fan of the Massive Darkness miniatures line, picked up a few on steep discount when Maelstrom was going out of business. Biggest issue was their sheer price (over £10/$15 for a single human-sized metal model) so if that offers a cheap way of gaining access to them while retaining detail, would be nice.
I am starting to find the Guillotine Games art style a bit...wearing. It's good to have a house style, and it did help Zombicide stand out, but I'm not excited to play a fantasy game that looks like (or is illustrated like) this. It is certainly colourful and approachable though, which is probably important for marketing.
I, on the other hand, enjoy the art style of GG. I have become a much more seasons kickstarter user after being burned a number of times, so the number of campaigns and the amounts i've contributed have almost dried up. But this will definitely grab me. I also wonder whether the art direction will be a little less gory... since the game may not necessarily revolve around rotting corpses. My 8 yr old son is interested to play and paint. Not that i wouldnt let him anyways.
This is pure speculation based off that single image, but it would certainly seem to be less gory, and much more akin to World of Warcraft in having bright colours and chunky shapes. I feel that it would have broader appeal than the gorier Black Plague artwork, which is a more specific (although very profitable!) niche.
On the other hand, the single image we've seen so far looks quite dissimilar to the existing Massive Darkness miniatures line:
Then again, Rum & Bones ended up having quite a distinct disjunct between old & new sculpts, so may be a similar concept here.
You can dismiss the previous miniatures line as coincidental naming.
Retailer incentive product will probably continue to exist, because there needs to be a bridge product to keep retailers interested in stocking the game, as, with a business model utilizing KS, the retailer is initially cut out. This may change. It may not. But I can tell you that the retailer exclusive model for Black Plague, Homer, will eventually hit retail.
I think that other line is pretty much discontinued / no new sculpts being made, right? Since CMON sells that on their site, it'd be crazy for there to be a problem with the name they weren't aware of. There's likely nothing to see there, imo.
Now, new Massive Darkness teasers are something I'm very interested in seeing! Give us something to discuss
I glanced through the minis Alpharius linked. It fits the aesthetic IMO CMON is geared towards for most of their fantasy games. I'd be a bit surprised if they weren't somehow using those figures in this Kickstarter.
I got my Zombicide BP English book today so I am less upset with CMON but the contents of this KS and general direction are going to have to be the main factors in determining if I am on board. I think I might have room for another big box game and I like that art style but I'm planning on picking up some games that are already in print so this will have competition for my dwindling game cabinet space.
EDIT: D'oh.. I submitted this and realized I missed some posts.. have to read more and see what details I didn't see before.
I think cincydooley (who has some connections to CMON) said the old minis line is not related / connected to this (which I'm glad about, they don't appeal to me, personally).
RiTides wrote: I think cincydooley (who has some connections to CMON) said the old minis line is not related / connected to this (which I'm glad about, they don't appeal to me, personally).
I suppose c-dooley could be pulling a massive swerve here, but yeah, he's said the name is just a coincidence...
it'll be neat to see what's really behind the scenes then. I thought those sculpts were okay with a few stinkers. The style is quirky enough to have convinced me it was the direction.
cincydooley - Do you know how far out an actual press release with more info is for the mystery game?
cincydooley wrote: Both Origins and GenCon will have limited seating, "behind the curtain" events where players will get to preview some unreleased or in Dev titles.
One of these years I'll actually go to Origins and/or GenCon to not be working a booth or running tournaments, then I might actually be able to attend one of these.
CoolMiniOrNot and Guillotine Games are partnering up again to bring you the ultimate dungeon crawl board game experience with Massive Darkness! Massive Darkness brings the classic fantasy RPG experience to modern board gaming, with an action-packed campaign chock full of gorgeous miniatures and a streamlined system that keeps the focus on the heroes' actions, with no need for a game master to control the enemies.
Using the popular Zombicide system as a starting point, Massive Darkness adds all the richness of a dungeon crawl RPG. Pick your hero, choose a class, decide on what skills to spend your XP, get loot by searching the dungeon or killing special enemies that can use the equipment against you! Face a multitude of different enemy types, coming in all shapes and sizes, whose behavior is resolved automatically. Or you can try to sneak around enemies by taking advantage of dark areas of the map.
Look for the Kickstarter campaign for Massive Darkness, coming in a few months with plenty of surprises for us to uncover!
Characters
Spoiler:
Baddies
Spoiler:
+
I particularly like the look of the Marilith. I'm also glad the orcs don't appear to be bloated bodybuilders like in B-Sieged. The gnomes or dwarves or whatever are kinda silly looking but I think the sculpts will probably mute some of the goofiness.
Really excited about this
Also - Unrelated but I'm not sure if there's a R&B 2 thread yet.. They changed their FB picture to a R&B2 teaser with a shark man. It looks pretty cool.
I love the design of that troll(?) in the last picture.
While it's exactly what most of us want the phrase "A dungeon crawler game" is very poorly worded, maybe something like "A game of dungeon exploration"?
Sounds as expected so far, but I do like them even alluding to their game being part "RPG".
No mention of campaign system, or persistence yet, so I guess it remains to be seen if this ends up being more Warhammer Quest, or Castle Ravenloft: The Boardgame.
Gonna go balls deep into this one. Love those Chaos Dwarfs!
Probably the same for me. It's exciting that this is probably just the tip so to speak.. If the rest looks like this and the sculpts carry across in the usual fashion, I'm going to be begging for an additional miniatures purchase option along with the base game. I have to keep telling myself I've got like 3 or 4 big box games coming too. Ugh.. so little shelf space..
I love dungeon crawlers, so I'll probably be in on this one .. but it might be a tough one for me if that Warhammer Questage of Sigmar thing really comes true.
Golden Paladin looks like a reskinned Teknes Union Worker/ Alahan Paladin. Will not buy.
Actually, some crossover Wrath of Kings mercs/ adventurers would be a cool cross promotion. Of course I said the same thing for a Hadross or Nasier pirate crew for Rum & Bones, but still...
I soooooooo hope we can get some Guiton designed reptiles.
The richness of a dungeon crawl RPG makes me hopeful for something with a bit of meat on it.
Maybe this will be the game Dungeon Saga could have been (in terms of WHQ style crawl, as opposed to a 1 vs many story driven approach).
highlord tamburlaine wrote: Golden Paladin looks like a reskinned Teknes Union Worker/ Alahan Paladin. Will not buy.
Actually, some crossover Wrath of Kings mercs/ adventurers would be a cool cross promotion. Of course I said the same thing for a Hadross or Nasier pirate crew for Rum & Bones, but still...
I soooooooo hope we can get some Guiton designed reptiles.
The richness of a dungeon crawl RPG makes me hopeful for something with a bit of meat on it.
Maybe this will be the game Dungeon Saga could have been (in terms of WHQ style crawl, as opposed to a 1 vs many story driven approach).
If I had to guess, we're probably looking at the base game's heroes.. I assume those are the ones in the retail box.. so buying him is probably just a matter of coming to grips with the fact that you'll have him in the box. I agree about the crossover tie-in goodness though. They have so many fantasy games that getting them to work together would be a chore but maybe the fan-favorites could get some love.
I'm hoping the expansion they tend to release with games like this is lizards. It's exactly the style I'd love to see. That and if R&B 2 has goblin and hobgoblin pirates I'll be a happy camper.
Goblin pirates would be fun for Rum & Bones. That way I can stop trying to chase down the Rackham ones!
I'm very curious how stretch goals will work on this. If you choose your class and skills like the blurb says, that means that the models are not going to be tied to specific rules most likely.
Maybe we'll see something where reach ____ unlocks x class, and a corresponding figure with it.
Jeez... must stop getting hyped up for this when it's so far off still... they can do alt genders/ races, monster packs, tile packs, books of charts, monster lists...
CoolMiniOrNot and Guillotine Games are partnering up again to bring you the ultimate dungeon crawl board game experience with Massive Darkness! Massive Darkness brings the classic fantasy RPG experience to modern board gaming, with an action-packed campaign chock full of gorgeous miniatures and a streamlined system that keeps the focus on the heroes' actions, with no need for a game master to control the enemies.
Using the popular Zombicide system as a starting point, Massive Darkness adds all the richness of a dungeon crawl RPG. Pick your hero, choose a class, decide on what skills to spend your XP, get loot by searching the dungeon or killing special enemies that can use the equipment against you! Face a multitude of different enemy types, coming in all shapes and sizes, whose behavior is resolved automatically. Or you can try to sneak around enemies by taking advantage of dark areas of the map.
Look for the Kickstarter campaign for Massive Darkness, coming in a few months with plenty of surprises for us to uncover!
CoolMiniOrNot and Guillotine Games are partnering up again to bring you the ultimate dungeon crawl board game experience with Massive Darkness! Massive Darkness brings the classic fantasy RPG experience to modern board gaming, with an action-packed campaign chock full of gorgeous miniatures and a streamlined system that keeps the focus on the heroes' actions, with no need for a game master to control the enemies.
Using the popular Zombicide system as a starting point, Massive Darkness adds all the richness of a dungeon crawl RPG. Pick your hero, choose a class, decide on what skills to spend your XP, get loot by searching the dungeon or killing special enemies that can use the equipment against you! Face a multitude of different enemy types, coming in all shapes and sizes, whose behavior is resolved automatically. Or you can try to sneak around enemies by taking advantage of dark areas of the map.
Look for the Kickstarter campaign for Massive Darkness, coming in a few months with plenty of surprises for us to uncover!
Characters
Spoiler:
Baddies
Spoiler:
+
Glad to see that this one is pretty much exactly what we were hoping it was!
Now, can CMON/GG out-GWWHQ before GW puts out a version of WHQ?
To me it almost doesn't matter, as I think I'd prefer CMON/GG's version anyway, as any GW version would certainly be AoS'd up!
I can't believe how excited I am for this and I barely know anything about it at all! Can't wait for some more teasers to carry us through! I've lucked out on the past few CMON offerings with getting an EB on day one, hopefully I can repeat that luck on this one!
Just to be the voice of calm, and reason... because I don't want anyone disappointed... but so far nothing has really spoken to this being much like Warhammer Quest. That doesn't mean it can't be... but lets wait and see.
Remember, on paper, those god-awful DnD board-games, are "multi-class, collect loot, random dungeon crawls", but have no depth, no continuity across games (or minimal amounts), and are clearly meant for super casual players.
CoolMiniOrNot and Guillotine Games are partnering up again to bring you the ultimate dungeon crawl board game experience with Massive Darkness! Massive Darkness brings the classic fantasy RPG experience to modern board gaming, with an action-packed campaign chock full of gorgeous miniatures and a streamlined system that keeps the focus on the heroes' actions, with no need for a game master to control the enemies.
Using the popular Zombicide system as a starting point, Massive Darkness adds all the richness of a dungeon crawl RPG. Pick your hero, choose a class, decide on what skills to spend your XP, get loot by searching the dungeon or killing special enemies that can use the equipment against you! Face a multitude of different enemy types, coming in all shapes and sizes, whose behavior is resolved automatically. Or you can try to sneak around enemies by taking advantage of dark areas of the map.
Look for the Kickstarter campaign for Massive Darkness, coming in a few months with plenty of surprises for us to uncover!
Characters
[spoiler]
Baddies
Spoiler:
+
Glad to see that this one is pretty much exactly what we were hoping it was!
Now, can CMON/GG out-GWWHQ before GW puts out a version of WHQ?
To me it almost doesn't matter, as I think I'd prefer CMON/GG's version anyway, as any GW version would certainly be AoS'd up!
Exactly! On top of everything else, we can expect it to all be more reasonably priced (if perhaps shrouded with some filler SGs).
Well it says it is based on Zombicide, so I expect we'll see the same sort of combat system, AI behavior and movement by zones, but in a (hopefully randomly generated) dungeon environment. Even more hopeful for campaign play and inbetween dungeon events like WHQ/SoB!
Okay, consider me very, very hyped for this. I love dungeon-crawls, so I'm absolutely in on this. The base hero designs are excellent, that rogue is 100% my kind of character, as the archer is 100% my wife. Fantastic.
highlord tamburlaine wrote: Goblin pirates would be fun for Rum & Bones. That way I can stop trying to chase down the Rackham ones!
I'm very curious how stretch goals will work on this. If you choose your class and skills like the blurb says, that means that the models are not going to be tied to specific rules most likely.
Maybe we'll see something where reach ____ unlocks x class, and a corresponding figure with it.
Jeez... must stop getting hyped up for this when it's so far off still... they can do alt genders/ races, monster packs, tile packs, books of charts, monster lists...
Alright. Gotta stop now.
That's my thought process, too! I loved that SPM did that with the recent Super Dungeon kickstarter, so I quite hope CMON does multiple figures per class, variety is good!
And, man, I'm pretty hyped for R&B2. Even if my friends got salty from one loss, cried "imbalance!", and haven't played it with us again. I guess they just don't know what they're missing.
NewTruthNeomaxim wrote: Remember, on paper, those god-awful DnD board-games, are "multi-class, collect loot, random dungeon crawls", but have no depth, no continuity across games (or minimal amounts), and are clearly meant for super casual players.
You basically just described Zombicide. I'd expect nothing more or less from Guillotine Games. What you said is exactly why it's so popular - it's great for slapping on a table and having fun for a couple of hours without the time investment needed for 'deeper' games. If it's just Zombicide with non-Zombie enemies (and thus a tad smarter enemy 'AI') I'll be happy as a pig in gak.
NewTruthNeomaxim wrote: Remember, on paper, those god-awful DnD board-games, are "multi-class, collect loot, random dungeon crawls", but have no depth, no continuity across games (or minimal amounts), and are clearly meant for super casual players.
You basically just described Zombicide. I'd expect nothing more or less from Guillotine Games. What you said is exactly why it's so popular - it's great for slapping on a table and having fun for a couple of hours without the time investment needed for 'deeper' games. If it's just Zombicide with non-Zombie enemies (and thus a tad smarter enemy 'AI') I'll be happy as a pig in gak.
Pretty much.. It's nice to be able to set up a hack and slash for when you don't really feel like RP. For all purposes, Heroquest was multi-class, collect loot, dungeon crawls with no depth and they don't even have random dungeons.
True... but I feel like we have a wealth of readily available, quick dungeon-hack, experiences, where I hate the fact that I still have to cite WHQ as the definitive experience in its niche.
I definitely see merit in what you're saying, and I even met my wife over a game of Castle Ravenloft (the bad, board-game version), but I am just hoping someone remembers those of us pining for a meatier game.
NewTruthNeomaxim wrote: True... but I feel like we have a wealth of readily available, quick dungeon-hack, experiences, where I hate the fact that I still have to cite WHQ as the definitive experience in its niche.
I definitely see merit in what you're saying, and I even met my wife over a game of Castle Ravenloft (the bad, board-game version), but I am just hoping someone remembers those of us pining for a meatier game.
Yeah.. but.. no.. See, D&D is what you're describing.
I don't know about 5.0 but 3.x which is old but what I play, has a lot of opportunities to play with miniatures on maps in the way you're describing. It's D&D at the core so you have all the flexibility a DM would ever need or want (especially if you have tiles from the board games). If you want it to be a fast hack and slash then dial back and use the DDM rules or play the board game with pretty much the same pieces. I am pretty sure you can run down PDFs of Advanced Heroquest pretty easily as well and it turns into similar. I have Descent 2.0 on the way (Monday) and I've heard it's basically WHQ updated/reskinned as well. Add in S&S from Kickstarter which I "think" is supposed to be along those lines as well and there's a plethora of these sorts of things. The problem I see, is that these things each exist in their own little pockets so if you don't already have someone in your area doing any of this, then there's nothing to bring any of these games to light.
I might be totally mistaken about what you're looking for.. but if you and I think anything alike, you're talking about a light RP dungeon crawl that's somewhat similar to the Diablo games. If I'm off, excuse my post. I also hope this game is along the lines you're looking for whatever that may be because frankly there's enough out there that more of anything is gravy to me at this point
If you wanted a Diablo style game, you should have joined us in backing Darklight: Memento Mori. That was about as Diablo/ Dark Souls of a boardgame as I've seen yet.
Descent isn't much like WHQ at all. Either version. Much more of a Heroquest type game since you have to have a player doing the opposition. Now with the new Road to Legend app, that could change drastically, but it still follows a set scenario path rather than WHQ's random dungeon spelunking.
@Mlaw, Descent 2.0 couldn't be further from WHQ. I apologize for your financial loss if you invested hoping for as much. :-p Its adversarial play and it has been gutted from Descent 1.0. No, i'm not looking for anything nearly that light. In fact, i'd argue there is a huge space between DnD and games like Descent, or Zombicide, WHQ filled such a space beautifully.
@Highlord, Oh, you can bet I got in on Darklight. I backed it and all its expansions... even if it did take the last day for me to do so. :-p I'm VERY excited as that game seems to be 99% of what I had in mind. WHQ just still holds a special place for its obscene book of advanced rules which essentially turned every model in my fantasy collection into a possible encounter. :-p
NewTruthNeomaxim wrote: @Mlaw, Descent 2.0 couldn't be further from WHQ. I apologize for your financial loss if you invested hoping for as much. :-p Its adversarial play and it has been gutted from Descent 1.0. No, i'm not looking for anything nearly that light. In fact, i'd argue there is a huge space between DnD and games like Descent, or Zombicide, WHQ filled such a space beautifully.
Ah, ok.. I see. There is an expansion though that does convert Descent to Coop.. looks like I'll have to pick that up. The exact itch you're trying to scratch might be more specific than I've experienced because you keep describing what I would associate with the D&D board games minus persistence. Hopefully we'll know more about Massive Darkness soon and won't have to sit here guessing
NewTruthNeomaxim wrote: @Mlaw, Descent 2.0 couldn't be further from WHQ. I apologize for your financial loss if you invested hoping for as much. :-p Its adversarial play and it has been gutted from Descent 1.0. No, i'm not looking for anything nearly that light. In fact, i'd argue there is a huge space between DnD and games like Descent, or Zombicide, WHQ filled such a space beautifully.
Ah, ok.. I see. There is an expansion though that does convert Descent to Coop.. looks like I'll have to pick that up. The exact itch you're trying to scratch might be more specific than I've experienced because you keep describing what I would associate with the D&D board games minus persistence. Hopefully we'll know more about Massive Darkness soon and won't have to sit here guessing
If you have a tablet then they are releasing a free app in a few weeks that makes the game co-op by taking on the role of the overlord -
Could someone make a dedicated Rum & Bones 2 thread? It's a little hard to follow both intermingled here and it sounds like that campaign is first, anyway.
If I understand correctly, Massive Darkness is a reskin of Zombicide : Black Plague, except that it's fantasy greenskins and dragons instead of zombies and more zombies?
Yeah, I'm interested. Having Rue Morgue, I sat out Black Plague being yet another zombies game. But a quick and easy dungeon crawler, using quick and easy Zombicide mechanics? That might be a good addition.
I wouldn't be surprised if the majority of the mechanics were reused. The Zombicide mechanics are perfect for a light hack and slash boardgame. However, the Zombie mechanics would need to be dropped and new mechanics for the different monsters, since enemies with the ability to think wouldn't be suitable for the Zombie mechanic of 'head to the noisiest zone'.
I expect the vast majority of mechanics to carry over from Black Plague with 100% cross-compatibility. I'm not at all sure the Zombie mechanics of following noises would need to be dropped. After all, monsters traditionally do stay put until you open the door or make a big noise...
I do think that monsters should / would have different mechanics and stats. That said, I wouldn't be surprised to see the walker / runner / fatty / Abom be genericised to fodder / regular / elite / boss so that you could have different units for the various slots by monster theme / family.
But then, the noise mechanic is really weak in Zombicide.
Does anybody ever bother to place all those fiffly markers on the board? We find they hardly come into play, most games ...
Sometimes, but even then, it's usually easier to just check noise level by calculation, rather than putting the markers on the board EVERY single turn and rarely using them.
Anyway, we digress, I should save that rant for the Z-forum ...
Not necessarily utilize noise counters but it could be something similar. Call it "threat counters" and actions generate certain amount of threat. AI chooses priority targets based on a combination of distance, threat and maybe even class types.
In late game with 6 players, split parties in different directions we have used a good portion of counters. Each player counts as a counter so no need to put on then, but we do quite a few multiple actions that start to add up (depending on skills of players).
I fully expect to see different AI rules that:
- target loudest (default)
- target quietest (sneaky)
- target closest (opportunistic)
- chase until dead (pursuing)
- target same as other unit (directed)
- target least wounds remaining (finishing)
- avoid loudest (cowardly)
etc.
This would be keyworded on the unit card, and add all sorts of gameplay variety. For example, Skaven general is cowardly, but summons sneaky & opportunistic minions. Orc warboss is pursuing with a directed retinue. And so on.
But we'll see what GG does with it.
Note that Journey and SDE already have some of these mechanics
This was posted last page before all those pictures.. but I'm not sure everyone read it or maybe doesn't remember everything from it..
Massive Darkness is Coming!
CoolMiniOrNot and Guillotine Games are partnering up again to bring you the ultimate dungeon crawl board game experience with Massive Darkness! Massive Darkness brings the classic fantasy RPG experience to modern board gaming, with an action-packed campaign chock full of gorgeous miniatures and a streamlined system that keeps the focus on the heroes' actions, with no need for a game master to control the enemies.
Using the popular Zombicide system as a starting point, Massive Darkness adds all the richness of a dungeon crawl RPG. Pick your hero, choose a class, decide on what skills to spend your XP, get loot by searching the dungeon or killing special enemies that can use the equipment against you! Face a multitude of different enemy types, coming in all shapes and sizes, whose behavior is resolved automatically. Or you cantry to sneak around enemies by taking advantage of dark areas of the map.
Look for the Kickstarter campaign for Massive Darkness, coming in a few months with plenty of surprises for us to uncover!
I highlighted a few things..
I expect noise to remain a factor. I would bet that thieves and rogues and the like probably get some sort of ability to avoid placing noise tokens or otherwise alerting enemies. Since we've heard both that it's not a re-skin but it IS built upon the Zombicide system, I think there might be a few more complexities and if a few noise counters are a turn off, this might go in a direction a few of you aren't going to be happy with :/
Alpharius wrote: I love the art style, and I'm hoping this is the game that I was hoping Dark Souls would be!
I know the miniatures will turn out great - now just hoping for that persistent world/WHQ look/feel/play!
Ditto. Dark Souls failed me, but just imagining CMoN doing it right with their propensity for huge volumes of content, has me giddy. That said... if its random dungeon, one-shot, with no rules more complex than Zombicide, i'll be disappointed.
They've *GOT* to know that people want the option for persistent characters and the option for an ongoing campaign. It certainly comes up enough in the comments.
Maybe we can send CincyDooley as an envoy of Dakka to let our demands be known to the powers that be.
Better yet, maybe we can get him to spill more details since he always seems to know what's up!
NewTruthNeomaxim wrote: If this game has the following, which it has every reasonable chance to, I am going to be wrecked.
1. Traditional CMoN levels of volume (stretch-goals, models, expansion options/add-ons)
2. Persistent campaign game (including gear, leveling with options, between-game SOMETHING like towns/travel events/base-building... anything)
3. A little more meat/mechanical complexity than Zombicide (IE something to make gearing, special attacks, etc... feel like they mean something)
I expect the first, I am hopeful for the second, but am worried about the third. Fingers crossed, I guess.
They have to know that number two is a necessity, I hope. I'm still backing Dark Souls, but who the hell wants a dungeon crawler where you crawl one dungeon and then retire your character? That's long been one of my chief complaints with Super Dungeon Explore (though I do still love the game), and they've addressed that with Legends.
I'm quite excited for this, but no campaign would severely kill my hype!
We all know this is coming and lots of us will support it. Here's a radical (for CMoN) idea. Release the preliminary rules now and get feedback before the Kickstarter campaign when you can still make improvements!
News about MASSIVE DARKNESS should be breaking soon!
In the meantime:
CMON and Guillotine Games, makers of Zombicide, team up once again to bring players a new, dungeon crawl board game: Massive Darkness. Experience fantasy tabletop gaming that keeps the focus on the heroes’ actions, freeing players from having a dedicated game master. Kickstarter is coming late May, and a prototype of the game will be playable at CMON Expo.
CoolMiniOrNot and Guillotine Games are partnering up again to bring you the ultimate dungeon crawl board game experience with Massive Darkness! Massive Darkness brings the classic fantasy RPG experience to modern board gaming, with an action-packed campaign chock full of gorgeous miniatures and a streamlined system that keeps the focus on the heroes’ actions, with no need for a game master to control the enemies.
Using the popular Zombicide system as a starting point, Massive Darkness adds all the richness of a dungeon crawl RPG. Pick your hero, choose a class, decide on what skills to spend your XP, get loot by searching the dungeon or killing special enemies that can use the equipment against you! Face a multitude of different enemy types, coming in all shapes and sizes, whose behavior is resolved automatically. Or you can try to sneak around enemies by taking advantage of dark areas of the map.
Look for the Kickstarter campaign for Massive Darkness, coming in a few months with plenty of surprises for us to uncover!
Lots of artwork pics if you follow that link too.
Like:
Looks to have a campaign mode too - I think that's me cancelling my Dark Souls pledge now too...
greywulf wrote: I've held off on pretty much all KS purchases the last few months in anticipation of this. Very excited!
Yup.. this is part of the factor in my decision to drop Second Tide. Boxes are piling up and at $100+ buy ins I've started learning more restraint. I wish games still fit in HQ size boxes :/
EDIT: What's in her quiver.. it looks like pastries on a stick... or javelins if we're being generous. It definitely doesn't look like the flight end of a bunch of arrows.
Dungeon crawl that's totally coop or solo? Miniatures, art, and game by Guillotine Games? SOLD...
Zombicide, Black Plague, Blood Rage, all have amazing minis, awesome gameplay, collectability/exclusivity, the art is good, the doards, tokens, etc, are all well done, I have no complaints (except for the wait after a kickstarter pledge).
This game might just take the cake. I may sell all my 40k now, I've already posted most of my other games for sale. This one will be one to remember!
I hope we see dragons, skeletons, orcs, mummies, trolls, demons, etc. Crossovers for black rage would be great too (heros and monsters).
I hope the boards are compatible with Black Plague, that would help both games develops that much faster. Also it would be nice to see not-black plague versions of the Black Plague heroes. Basically the heroes before the zombie invasion.
Minis that reflect upgraded heroes would be great. I'm hoping there's a 50/50 gender representation and/or alt male & female minis for each of the classes. Black Plague really didnt do too well in that category, at least with the stretchgoals. But since this is going to be class oriented and i want my daughter to have a chance to play too, i hope to heck the female minis arent just confined to the traditional female classes of magic users and long range or stealth fighters. A female fighter should be available too.
greywulf wrote: Minis that reflect upgraded heroes would be great. I'm hoping there's a 50/50 gender representation and/or alt male & female minis for each of the classes. Black Plague really didnt do too well in that category, at least with the stretchgoals. But since this is going to be class oriented and i want my daughter to have a chance to play too, i hope to heck the female minis arent just confined to the traditional female classes of magic users and long range or stealth fighters. A female fighter should be available too.
Give me a lady Paladin in some bad-ass plate! Like, real plate, not a plate bikini. Agreed on the the hope of alternate class models so there's equal gender representation.
Look at the gaming base... yes females play but 90% of all the flgs I've been to are all male. If that's your target audience, that's who they should cater to (sorry, I am a businessman, and that's just good business). To reverse your logic of your daughter wanting to play as a female and wanting more ladies, why would a bunch of dudes want to play as females?
I thought black plague had a fine mix. With the core set and first expansion, I have three females and seven males. That is a fair representation .
Anyway, getting pc out of the game forums... It will be interesting to see how the boards are. Almost every dungeon crawl game uses different sized tiles, hallways, etc with small single min only grids. Zombicide has always used large tiles with large grids. It would be great to be able to use the tiles with black plague (or vice versa). That would open up a ton of possibilities for scenario building!
I hope there is forward and backward compatibility between this and BP (tiles, heroes, monsters). Really looking forward to this! I hope they start posting mini sculpts soon.
PC hahaha. What a sad thing to say since my motivation has nothing to do with being PC. It has to do with having options. And to respond to your question Why would a bunch of dudes want to play as female characters? Answer: Maybe because they want to?
I bought into super dungeon explore and myth, partly because they had a good mix of genders. Myth did alternates for all player characters, and the latest SDE did as well, and i was happy. Why make a decent amount of female characters? Why not?
According to your business model if 90% of flgss are male and GG and CMON only want to target flgs-goers, then the 30%/70% female male mix you pointed out is present in BP is a poor business decision, because according to what you said, dudes dont want to play female characters. why not 10%/90%? That would align more with your obviously successful business strategies.
Im absolutely sickened by the disgusting attitude of some people. All i did was express a wish and people want to grind it into the dust. Why try to shoot down what i said? I had nothing more to say about it until i got ignorant responses. Now i feel like banging some drums!
Sorry if you are 'sickened' or 'disgusted' by other forum members. We all have our own opinions, and our right to state as such in a public forum. Calling others ignorant because they disagree with you is... ignorant itself, juvenile, and uncalled for. The world is full of diversity of opinions, and the forums are here so we can all openly discuss our games, opinions, experiences, etc.
If you want to see people getting shot down for expressing a wish, go to any age of sigmar forum. Those are bloody mean sometimes, esp. if you like the game like I do. However I don't call others derogatory terms because they hate aos.
If you like playing with female minis, that is great. The flgs bit was based on sales from our two local flgs. Zombicide is more of a home-played game even though it is sold in flgs, which I'm sure is why they included more females. The whole business point was to justify why companies may do what they do. I have several degrees in business, was just trying to use logic instead of name calling.
So anyway, back on topic
Anyone have any speculation on creature classes? So far I have seen goblins, orcs, trolls, gnomes (different from most games there), and medusa. Really hoping for a GG dragon of some type, or maybe dragonborn hero or monsters?
If only 10% of the players are female, that seems like a pretty big untapped market to me?
Would make sense to attempt to make the potential growth market not feel excluded, by providing female sculpts (even if they choose to not always play with the female versions).
Not really. Little thing called "demographics". Besides, clever companies put make the maximum return on the least risk. That's how most things work.
greywulf wrote: Haha... er... sigh... Is it too much to wish that there be fair representation of female figures as well? Wow...
Or maybe just let the designers design what they want to design. Sounds reasonable to me.
Besides, if the characters are named warriors rather than "Generic Barbarian #438-C", then they are characters, and cannot just be chopped and changed for an alternate fig.
Besides, if the characters are named warriors rather than "Generic Barbarian #438-C", then they are characters, and cannot just be chopped and changed for an alternate fig.
From what (little) we have to go on, it sounds like choosing a class instead of choosing a character, so, yeah, there should absolutely be options for you character figure. If it is choosing a character like Zombicide, then, agreed, it's not quite as easy. Not to mention, I've seen a lot of comments about the lack of female characters in many of the past CMON kickstarters. Demographics and all that, sure, but there's very clearly a demand, and a smart business should at least be aware of what their consumers want. Will it happen? Probably not, but I feel it's not unfair of us to want.
Anecdotal evidence be what it may, but the gender ratio is a frequent, eh, grievance (not sure if that's exactly the word I'm looking for) in my gaming group. I'm not expecting it to be 50/50, designers should get to design what they want... But when it gets to Mortal Kombat X levels, it's something to keep in mind.
1) We should probably wait until the campaign launches before we get too worked up about...just about anything.
2) There are plenty of threads to discuss 'gender equality in miniatures' - and this really won't be another one of them. If that's what you really want to discuss, please go to one of those specific threads.
Hey Cincy, Any chance of a spoiler for what the base pledge costs will be, I don't need details as to what is included, but need to start planning on what the minimum $$$ amount will be beside a $1 pledge to get in the door.
Would love to get this since I own Black Plague, but it'll be hard to justify after getting both Darklight and Dark Souls... Btw lots of Darkness in these games!
Aeneades wrote: Dark Souls ends in 12 days, if CMON are playing things smart they will announce the contents of the core box and some gameplay details before then.
That would be a VERY smart move. A smart and dastardly move.
Just thought I'd drop this here since it's completely relevant to this thread and my benign statement before.
From a facebook message sent to GG:
-------------
Conversation started Sunday
XXXX
5/1, 10:28pm
XXXX
Hi there. I'm really excited for Massive Darkness! I absolutely cannot wait!! I know you probably cant say anything since you'll be keeping the campaign secret until the launch, but i've backed all of your campaigns and i noticed that the stretch goals for Black Plague were heavily male oriented. I really want my daughter to play MD with us and I think it's important that she have a fair chance to play any class she wants as a female character. Could you please try to go 50/50 for character genders? Or could you at least make alternate gender characters a thing? Ex. the art you've shown us so far shows a male wizard. Could you have a female version available as well please? Anyways thanks, and I'll be pledging as early as possible!
Monday
Guillotine Games
5/2, 6:38am
Guillotine Games
Hello XXXX,
Thank you for your continued support to Guillotine Games!
As you mentioned it, we keep as much information as possible until the time is right. I can however tell you, you will be pleased considering some aspects of your requests. Your daughter will have choice!
Tuesday
XXXX
5/3, 1:02am
XXXX
I thank you for your consideration and your comments and i look forward to the campaign. J'ai bien hâte!
-------------
A business representative taking the time to respond to an innocent request without really promising anything, but still acting like they've listened, without being condescending or telling me I'm PC? Wow! Now that's a good business strategy!
I've been keeping an eye on TGN as they are covering the Expo but nothing yet - CMoN have 20 new games to reveal so it might take a little while to get any info. Hopefully someone will film and post the seminars as has happened in the past.
DaveC wrote: I've been keeping an eye on TGN as they are covering the Expo but nothing yet - CMoN have 20 new games to reveal so it might take a little while to get any info. Hopefully someone will film and post the seminars as has happened in the past.
/Clutches wallet
Ihope the Adrian Smith Hate game will be shown as well.
it looks like they are holding the reveal over until tomorrow, (unless it's shown privately today and someone sneaks out some info/pictures)
Saturday, May 7th 2:30pm - 4:00pm
Into the Dark: An Early Look at Massive Darkness
CMON and Guillotine Games are partnering up again to bring you a new dungeon crawl board game: Massive Darkness! Join David Preti (Guillotine Games) and Thiago Aranha (CMON Lead Producer) for an exclusive first look at the game, including its new streamlined system that keeps the focus on heroes’ actions, the wonderful minis, and more!
Man... this and Warhammer Quest are going to have a to-the-death brawl for my wallet over the next couple weeks.
Either could be everything I have been dreaming of, or fall on their faces.
Risks in my mind? Massive Darkness not being a persistent, campaign based game, and WHQ just being a simple one-off release with no support for anything outside a one-and-done boxed game.
But if both dodge those.... oh man am I going to be poor.
NewTruthNeomaxim wrote: Man... this and Warhammer Quest are going to have a to-the-death brawl for my wallet over the next couple weeks.
Either could be everything I have been dreaming of, or fall on their faces.
Risks in my mind? Massive Darkness not being a persistent, campaign based game, and WHQ just being a simple one-off release with no support for anything outside a one-and-done boxed game.
But if both dodge those.... oh man am I going to be poor.
I thought WHQ was already out and was just basically a card game..
Eagerly awaiting pictures and goodies for Massive Darkness though
NewTruthNeomaxim wrote: Man... this and Warhammer Quest are going to have a to-the-death brawl for my wallet over the next couple weeks.
Either could be everything I have been dreaming of, or fall on their faces.
Risks in my mind? Massive Darkness not being a persistent, campaign based game, and WHQ just being a simple one-off release with no support for anything outside a one-and-done boxed game.
But if both dodge those.... oh man am I going to be poor.
I thought WHQ was already out and was just basically a card game..
Eagerly awaiting pictures and goodies for Massive Darkness though
NewTruthNeomaxim wrote: Man... this and Warhammer Quest are going to have a to-the-death brawl for my wallet over the next couple weeks.
Either could be everything I have been dreaming of, or fall on their faces.
Risks in my mind? Massive Darkness not being a persistent, campaign based game, and WHQ just being a simple one-off release with no support for anything outside a one-and-done boxed game.
But if both dodge those.... oh man am I going to be poor.
I thought WHQ was already out and was just basically a card game..
Eagerly awaiting pictures and goodies for Massive Darkness though
I recommend checking out the AOS thread. With Silver tower coming out this month and Massive Darkness next year presumably, there seems to be room for both.
While Massive Darkness is presumably next year, the kickstarter is just around the door. So I agree, my wallet will be hurting as well this and next month. =/
I'm out from Dark Souls, and not particularly interested in WHQ, so Massive Darkness is the only crawler on my radar. I'm really hoping it stays affordable and plays like Zombicide Rue Morgue / Black Plague.
I think it was the Massive Darkness base heroes and gnomes, but of course it was impossible to tell from the video. The larger monsters were the extra abominations from the Black Plague Kickstarter. But there should be real news and photos from the panel soon.
The tile is from Massive Darkness as they talk about the light and dark areas having a game effect - you can hide from enemies in the shadows. They also take a Goblin shaman and archer out of the box. It looks like there is a lot of overlap with BP so I wouldn't be surprised if BP enemies get MD stats.
The game is a modern-style Dungeon Crawl game. It will have all the popular fantasy tropes in terms of monsters. Goblins, Demons, Spiders, Kobolds, and on and on. There is a massive drive toward coming out with lots of different monsters. That will increase the replayability of the game, as each time you can play through with different monsters that you will fight. You can tailor-make your game to what you want to fight. There is no “GM-Player” required. It’s entirely cooperative. During the course of the game, your character will progress not only during the game, but also during the entire campaign system.
Monsters are spawned when you encounter new rooms. Also, there are event cards that can also create wandering monsters. Monsters generally move 2x and then they will make an attack (if they have something to attack).
As you would expect from a Guillotine Games/CMON product, you can expect plenty of awesomely-sculpted miniatures. You can get a bit of a look at them here.
Heroes each come with a unique special skill. From there you add in a Class Skill. You can match heroes with any class you want. While there might be a particular class that a character might favor, that doesn’t actually limit you. So again, replayability comes from switching heroes with classes in almost limitless ways. Classes combine skills with unique signature moves. As you play further into the campaign, your skill tree also grows, giving you branching options for how you want your character to progress.
But it’s not just skills you’ll amass as you kill off enemies. You also get loot! There’s weapons of all types: melee, ranged, consumable, and even magic items. Didn’t get exactly what you want? Or maybe an old weapon isn’t doing what you need it to anymore? You’ll be able to transmute them into more powerful ones.
Monsters come in the form of bosses leading masses of minions. There’s also enemy agents who can call in reinforcements. Maybe you’ll run across a random wandering monster as well! Guardians will carry powerful pieces of treasure, and they know how to use ’em! Thankfully, fighting against them, abilities and equipment stack together. Both the attacks and defense part of an attack is done with a single die roll. There are different attack and defense dice that you will roll together. Add up your attack totals vs. the defense totals and see what happens. There’s a limit of 12 dice for a die roll, since there are 3 of each type of 4 dice (2 attack, 2 defense) Special enhancements on items or characters are triggered by rolling certain symbols on the dice.
The game board creates a dynamic world. There’s Shadow Areas on tiles that the heroes can use to their advantage. Heroes can use those spots as mid-game “hiding spots.” They can hide from wandering patrols. They can avoid certain attacks. They can even use those spots as launching-off points for their own surprise attacks. Like with Zombicide before it, just charging in headlong into the enemies will result in you more-than-likely losing the game and your characters dying (though there are a couple resurrection methods). This brings a deep tactical, and cooperative portion for the game. You must work together.
The molds for the miniatures are already in production. As such, there’s a real push to getting the game out and on time in a quick fashion.
They have a brand-new, prototype version of the game here. I snapped a few photos. I hope you enjoy.
There’s a lot of really cool things in store for this game. Stay tuned for more previews and info as we get closer to the Kickstarter launch date.
Final preview tidbit: They’re working on Zombicide: Black Plague Season 2. But they are not currently working on regular Zombicide Season 4.
I didnt back Black Plague and kinda regret it. It would be insanely awesome to have the option to pick up the Artist pack stretch goals from Black Plague during this Kickstarter and then be able to use them for this game as well.
I wonder if they'll offer compatibility for all 50 or so BP characters or only the "base" ones. It does sound like each individual hero will have a card with their unique skill (and stats? or will those be solely class based?) so that would be a ton of rules to come up with even if they're minor.
On the other hand, maybe they'll just reuse the whole set of BP Kickstarter heroes and focus more on adding monsters this time around. At some point you have enough.
The skill cards say battle wizard and shadow barbarian so the rules may be class based rather than individual named heroes so the BP heroes may be useable by class types
DaveC wrote: The skill cards say battle wizard and shadow barbarian so the rules may be class based rather than individual named heroes so the BP heroes may be useable by class types
That would make sense, except.
Heroes each come with a unique special skill. From there you add in a Class Skill.
That could be worded badly, or maybe they'll be chosen by the player rather than preassigned to the heroes?
I love pretty much all of the sculpts. The evil Dwarves and Gnomes I'm a bit lukewarm on, but everything else looks great. Particularly excited about Orcs and Goblins that look dangerous and not comical.
Can't wait to see the KS.
~Eric
Edit: Hope to see stats for all the Black Plague stuff eventually. I would imagine the monsters will be easier than the heroes though.
I'm not loving the campaign aspect, hopefully the non-campaign experience will not lose anything due to the rules being focused on campaign play. I mostly play board games with different people at random times and I would love this to be a complement and alternative to Zombicide.
Mymearan wrote: I'm not loving the campaign aspect, hopefully the non-campaign experience will not lose anything due to the rules being focused on campaign play. I mostly play board games with different people at random times and I would love this to be a complement and alternative to Zombicide.
Ha!
Sounds like DARK SOULS board game might be the game for you!
Lack of a campaign and persistent world/carry-over turned me off there, but it sounds like it is just what you're looking for!
I really like the look of the bad guy/monster minis. Don't know if the game will be good, but I will certainly try it. I plan to back this, but I am a sucker for CMON board games anyway. (Zombicide 1, and 2, Black Plague, The Others, and Blood Rage). The Evil dwarves/gnomes will make great monsters in my pathfinder game if the game itself is not to my liking.).
Mymearan wrote: I'm not loving the campaign aspect, hopefully the non-campaign experience will not lose anything due to the rules being focused on campaign play. I mostly play board games with different people at random times and I would love this to be a complement and alternative to Zombicide.
Ha!
Sounds like DARK SOULS board game might be the game for you!
Lack of a campaign and persistent world/carry-over turned me off there, but it sounds like it is just what you're looking for!
I am indeed backing DS, but i don't know if I'll be able to keep my grubby mitts off Massive Darkness anyway, since I bought heavily into Black Plague. Problem is with both Darklight and Dark Souls coming, I already have both a one-shot and a campaign dungeon crawler on the way! CMON campaigns are hard to resist though..,
I only kept the Zombicide 3 Rue Morgue base game, and I skipped on Black Plague because the bonus Knights were far too samey for my tastes. Massive Darkness has a lot more variety from what I see, so that's a good thing in my book.
I think the art direction is pretty much consistent with what we've seen. My beef with the miniatures is more about the poses. They feel very planar.. like the models are posed based on casting and not on what would make sense from an art standpoint.
Worst case scenario.. I get it and think the models suck and just use the umpteen million goblins I have from a dozen different sources.
MLaw wrote: I think the art direction is pretty much consistent with what we've seen. My beef with the miniatures is more about the poses. They feel very planar.. like the models are posed based on casting and not on what would make sense from an art standpoint.
Worst case scenario.. I get it and think the models suck and just use the umpteen million goblins I have from a dozen different sources.
As one piece PVC minis I'd say they are absolutely posed based on casting constraints.
I think they all look really good considering that too!
MLaw wrote: I think the art direction is pretty much consistent with what we've seen. My beef with the miniatures is more about the poses. They feel very planar.. like the models are posed based on casting and not on what would make sense from an art standpoint.
Worst case scenario.. I get it and think the models suck and just use the umpteen million goblins I have from a dozen different sources.
As one piece PVC minis I'd say they are absolutely posed based on casting constraints.
I think they all look really good considering that too!
To be fair, I don't hate all the models. Some of the grunts and mooks just feel kinda flat and I might feel differently when the alternate pose "stretch goal" is unlocked and we see more variety. Just seeing the same ones repeated at the moment feels really bleh to me.
Anyone make their way through that, and able to give us some cliff-notes, for those who can't spend the hour?
At this point Warhammer Quest sounds like it may end up only having about 50% of the mechanics I was hoping for, so I am still looking towards this for the possibility of a true, open-ended campaign, leveling up, etc... game.
Im most excited for that loot mechanic where the leader monster is actually able to use the random loot card against you, you kill him and then take that loot card. That sounds cool.
Let me know what you mine out Alpharius. I'd appreciate it. I tried watching but the language barrier hit hard early on when the one designer was trying to convey leveling within a quest, AND within the campaign.... I had no idea what he was saying as he made it sound like every game you reset level... but also have access to more skills as you go?
1 - 6 players
Final Dashboard might be plastic like BP but might have to be paid add on.
Heroes and minions/monsters in same colour plastic as BP 6 classes of hero in the core game - it's hinted at that there are more classes.
5 big monsters in the core game - Troll, Spider, Demon, Hellhound, 6 armed "thing" (I assume this is the snake woman that has been shown in artwork)- similar to the sins in The Others - multipart preassembled
Some minor expansions
20- 25 monsters
Heroes have 2 unique skills, They have a recommended class but you can choose any class for them - there are better synergies if you choose the recommended class. You get 1 class skill free to start.
There are 9 class skills and 5 levels for each skill which make that skill more powerful.
Use XP gained by killing minions/monsters to buy additional skills from the class tree and level up your hero. XP can be spent at the end of each round. Skills evolve as the game progresses.
XP can also be spent to use special skills.
Each scenario has it's own evolution of skills and then campaigns have an additonal evolution of skills.
Treasure Cards - Melee, Ranged and Magic weapons. Items, consumables and relics. Treasure tokens are spawned in some rooms - you don't search like Zombicide. Killed monsters can also drop loot.
Loot varies in level low level stuff can be found high level only by killing monsters. Several low level items can be trasnformed into higher level items. No limit to what you can carry.
Enemies - AI controlled. Enemies spawn when you enter a room/area.
Lone agents - powerful lone roaming minion/monster can call for reinforcemnets (spawn new enemies)
Mobs - size depends on number of players. 1 boss plus add 1 minion per hero. Goblins can be 2 per hero
Roaming Monsters - the big monsters show up randomly
Monsters will try to attack the hero with the most experience but will attack whatever they can.
Lone Agents, Bosses and Roaming Monsters spawn with 1 treasure card of a level 1 above their own and they can use that treasure until killed.
Combat - abilites and equipment effects stack. Resolved in a single roll off, 2 types of attack dice and 2 defense dice. Roll together cancel out oppsoing results and whatever is left is the result.
Max of 12 dice rolled at a time - never more than 3 of any type of dice can be rolled. Enchantment symbols can be rolled that give additional effects.
Shadow Mode - light and dark areas on board. Use an action to enter shadow mode so monsters can't see you when you are in the shadow areas - they will ignore you when targeting. You can attack from the shadows and can't be attacked back.
You need to use the shadows as if you go at the game head on you will be overcome by the minions.
There is one monster that can see in the dark so it ignores shadow mode.
Tiles don't necessarily get set up next to each other they can be more random with gaps between with small bridge tiles connecting them.
Each quest has a set of objectives to be completed - eg find the monster draw him to a bridge destroy the bridge with the monster on it to kill it.
There can be traps in rooms. Doors separate rooms but serve no other real purpose they don't require an action to open.
KS aiming for end of May beginning of June, To deliver in April or May 2017
Scenarios should take 90 minutes to 2 hours
Expected delivery of Next year... that makes me sad... Like way sad, I was expecting a faster turn around from CMON, kinda like Black Plague, June to Dec, 8ish months... I mean whats another 4, but still sad.
Chopxsticks wrote: Expected delivery of Next year... that makes me sad... Like way sad, I was expecting a faster turn around from CMON, kinda like Black Plague, June to Dec, 8ish months... I mean whats another 4, but still sad.
Well I'm still waiting for most of my BP pledge...
I got the impression that there is definitely carry over for your characters - there will be pads to keep track of the info, you'll write everything down, build your character, become attached, and then cry a lot when they die!
And thanks DaveC for all those notes - much appreciated!
KS aiming for end of May beginning of June, To deliver in April or May 2017
If the KS will launch in a couple weeks, that explains the sudden ramp in publicity.
April 2017 is nearly a year after launch, but I assume they have high hopes for the campaign and are building time to deliver.
Just watched the video and they imply that they're baking in more time than they need, because they know Chinese New Year habitually screws up their plans. The way they make it sound, it looks like they may release sooner, but just want to give a really conservative date.
They outright say its all about stretch-goals as the core game tooling is done and could begin production right now.
Chopxsticks wrote: Expected delivery of Next year... that makes me sad... Like way sad, I was expecting a faster turn around from CMON, kinda like Black Plague, June to Dec, 8ish months... I mean whats another 4, but still sad.
Well I'm still waiting for most of my BP pledge...
I took from the campaign updates they started delivery at the beginning of Dec? Are you an unfortunate exception that hasn't gotten theirs yet?
Chopxsticks wrote: Expected delivery of Next year... that makes me sad... Like way sad, I was expecting a faster turn around from CMON, kinda like Black Plague, June to Dec, 8ish months... I mean whats another 4, but still sad.
Well I'm still waiting for most of my BP pledge...
I took from the campaign updates they started delivery at the beginning of Dec? Are you an unfortunate exception that hasn't gotten theirs yet?
They delivered the core game then, which I have. We're still waiting on everything else (SG and add-ons).
Oh ok, kinda like what Kingdom Death monster did. Im a big fan of multiple waves. So if I could get the core game This year and then wait for the extras thats cool. After the wait for KD:M nothing could be as bad...
Chopxsticks wrote: Expected delivery of Next year... that makes me sad... Like way sad, I was expecting a faster turn around from CMON, kinda like Black Plague, June to Dec, 8ish months... I mean whats another 4, but still sad.
Well I'm still waiting for most of my BP pledge...
I took from the campaign updates they started delivery at the beginning of Dec? Are you an unfortunate exception that hasn't gotten theirs yet?
By the sound of this I guess I should be worried that I haven't recieved anything at all?...
CMoN did waves for Zc2 and Zc3, with the core box coming out, followed by the expansions. In general, if they can get the core box shipping for holiday, that's good for CMoN. It clears warehouse space and allows them to recognize revenue, and release into retail distribution. Then, when the expansions arrive, it's kind of a relaunch.
While CMoN is more likely to deliver everything, and more-or-less on time. As for "bad", that's when you don't / won't get your stuff. Robotech Wave 2, for example. At least KD:M delivered, and the stuff was awesome.
Cmon did waves for almost every mini game they made. I remember recieving zombicide season 1, wave 1 which consisted of three promos and the core game. The add ons and remainder of the promos came months later. I'm sure the others will be the same situation.
The same happened for rivet wars, rum and bones, etc.
The only cmon game that arrived in one wave was blood rage, which was a smaller campaign with few stretch goals.
455_PWR wrote: Cmon did waves for almost every mini game they made. I remember recieving zombicide season 1, wave 1 which consisted of three promos and the core game. The add ons and remainder of the promos came months later. I'm sure the others will be the same situation.
The same happened for rivet wars, rum and bones, etc.
The only cmon game that arrived in one wave was blood rage, which was a smaller campaign with few stretch goals.
Really? My Rum and Bones was just one wave, and I had plenty of add-ons.
Also besides Rum & Bones, Arcadia Quest, Dogs of War, Cadwallon, Wrath of Kings, Kaosball, Smog, B-Sieged, the first Xenoshyft, and the base campaign were all single shipments.
I've played a lot of dungeon bash games, but gotten rid of just about all of them because they never quite seem to deliver what I want.
What I want is something that plays with the elegance and speed of a good Eurogame (2 hours tops for experienced players), and has the same kind tactical and strategic depth. Descent is deep but slow. The D&D spinoffs, and SDE, have the double whammy of being shallow and slow. At that point you may as well play Munchkin, which is shallow and slow but is at least funny, sometimes.
Might grab this one, but, meh, I am looking at the minis and wishing they had vaguely realistic weapons, and thinking about the amount of converting I would need to do to make that happen... :(
Z:BP was the first CMON product I backed and played. So far I have absolutely loved it and had a great time playing it, knowing that the rest of the stuff will be here shortly is very exciting. That is why I'm pumped about Massive Darkness! A dungeon crawler with the same style of play, but with all the fun of the exploration, etc., is very appealing to me. I can't wait!
Given that the shipments holding wave 2 of Black Plague will be arriving within the next couple weeks I suspect they will wait until the first customers start to receive Black Plague before launching Massive Darkness just to avoid complaints.
@JohnHwangDo, no, indeed. Sorry -- by "might as well play Munchkin", I am not in any way suggesting that I enjoy playing Munchkin. There are some good jokes, the first time you play, but I would prefer to just read Dork Tower.
On the upside it does not require much setup. So if you are going to make me play a long, shallow dungeon bash, it is marginally better than Super Dungeon Explore.
No biggie. I had more fun reading the cards than actually playing the game. I cannot imagine why it sells as well as it does. Maybe people only buy it for the jokes?
Ahtman wrote: I'm up for some Darkness but I don't think I'm in the mood for Massive amounts of it. Maybe there will be Medium Darkness for more casual fans.
It seems interesting but waiting for it to launch for a long period kind of kills the buzz for me.
Really? I'm OK with the buildup/hype/whatever - no big whoop either way, as they say in France.
And as for your Medium Darkness request - just get the 'core box pledge' - I'm sure that should suffice.
Alpharius wrote: And as for your Medium Darkness request - just get the 'core box pledge' - I'm sure that should suffice.
Exactly. That's my intent for now. If it looks like I should add more, I'll do so. It's not like Rue Morgue or the other core boxes lacked adequate content.
I have SOOO many dungeon exploring miniature board games. I feel like we've had at least 5 new and sequels to others pop up in the last year.
As long as the minis are good, I'm all for it, I just wish I had the time to play more of them.
I'm definitely interested in this one, nice figures, Cool mini does a good job on their figures and games. No zombies, yet anyway. To be fair, as long as they aren't the central focus of something I'm fine with them. I'm zombie'd out.
Joyboozer wrote: Has anyone asked cincydooley if there's a miniatures only pledge level yet?
From my experience, I wouldn't count on it. I can't recall one in the time I've been following CMoN Kickstarters, which would be Zombicide season 3 and on. Feel free to correct me if there are any that I've missed.
I can, however, say in full confidence that none of the projects that I've personally backed had a miniatures only pledge.
There will be no miniatures only pledge. You can, however, make a full pledge and donate all the awful cardboard to your local game store to use for organized play, If you were so inclined. ;-)
You should see an announcement about the launch date on Friday, I believe. Not quite the wait I anticipated. ;-)
CMON have now mentioned on Facebook to keep an eye out tomorrow for a release date announcement so looks like the announcement may have moved up a day (or the person posting as CMON has wires crossed).
From CMON and Guillotine Games comes Massive Darkness! Launching June 7th, 3:00PM EST on Kickstarter. Pick your Heroes, choose a Class, and fight hordes of monsters as your group delves deeper into the dark dungeons of this new cooperative board game! Please help us spread the word and share with your friends.
. Though I had a fleeting thought this could also be similar to Talisman.
+
not enough time to save up for that
