Stormhawk Interceptor – a deadly heavily armed and armoured Space marine fighter, designed to hunt and kill other flyers. This kit can alternatively also be assembled as a Stormtalon Gunship.
Wazbom Blastjet
Wazbom Blastajet – a deadly, gun heavy, Ork flying fortress. The kit can also be assembled as either a Dakkajet, a Burna-bommer or a Blitza-bommer.
Death From the Skies Supplement
More pictures of the Stormhawk Interceptor from Lady Atia's blog
Spoiler:
More pictures from Lady Atia's blog, this time of "Death From the Skies"
Spoiler:
These go up for preorder on Saturday, April 30th. They will be released on Saturday, May 7th.
The Stormhawk Interceptor is $55 USD.
Death From the Skies is $58 USD.
From Warhams-77(who got it from MiniWar and BoLS):
Let's see how much this actually increases game time. If flyers destroy each other earlier in the game it could balance out. If it makes for tense battles it could be worth it anyway
It says 23 updated datasheets. So no FW flyers for us. At least in this book.
From Luchiban on Warseer via Warhams77:
Spoiler:
Warhams-77 wrote:Iuchiban - Warseer
FMC are not in this book.
The datasheets are:
- Valkyries
- Stormhawk Interceptors
- Stormtalon
- Stormraven
- Storm wing (Formation)
- Strike Wing (Formation, 2 Stormhawks + 2 Stormtalons)
- Blood Angel Stormraven
- Grey Knights Stormraven
- Dark Talon
- Nephilim
- Ravenwing abductor squadron (Formation, 2 Nephilim + 1 Dark Talon)
- Stormwolf
- Stormfang
- Ice Storm assault pack (Formation, 2 Stormwolves + 2 Stormfangs)
- Heldrake
- Razorwing
- Voidraven
- Blackheart Talon (Formation, 2 Razorwings + 2 Voidravens)
- Crimson Hunter
- Hemlock
- Shroud of Kurnous (Formation, 2-3 Crimson Hunters + 1 Hemlock)
- Night Scythes
- Doom Scythes
- Oppressor Flight (Formation, 1 Night Scythe + 2-3 Doom Scythes)
- Blitza-Bomber
- Burna-Bomber
- Dakkajet
- Wazbom Blastajets
- Ork Skwadron (Formation, 3 of any but Wazbom Blastajets)
- Kustom Wazmob (1 Wazbom + 3 up to three of any other ork flyer including the Wazmob)
- Razorshark
- Sun Shark
- Air caste Support cadre (Formation, 2 Razorsharks + 1 Sun Shark)
Warhams-77 wrote:Iuchiban on Warseer about Death from the Skies
Hi all,
I already have my copy of the book, and after a quick go-through:
(As usual, translations may not be 100% correct)
- There is a new detachment:
Air Superiority Detachment
Is formed by 1-3 Flyer Wings*
Restrictions: All models have to be chosen from the same faction
Benefits:
- Air commander; If the commander of the Wing is in reserves, re-roll interception, If you have superiority and your Chief is in Reservers you add +2 to your reserve rolls instead of 1.
- Combined formation: You choose to make a single reserve roll for the whole formation if you want.
- Transport that have the hover mode have the Objetive secured rule.
Of course I need to read the book to know what it all means.
All the existing flyers have the same point costs and rules as in their current codex.
The stormhawk costs 125 points and comes with: Twin linked assault cannon, twin linked heavy bolter, "super laser thing" (24", S9, AP2, Heavy 2), Ceraminte plating, and one ítem that allow the stormhawk reroll when jinking. Has the supersonic special rule.
May exchange the laser thing for an Icurus Cannon for 155 points. May exchange the heavy bolter for a Typhoon missile launcher for +20 points or for a Celestial hammer missile thrower for +5 points.
Now I have to go, but will be back in one hour and a half (aprox).
(Cannot translate the ork weapons)
Twin-linked 36", S8, AP2, Heavy 1, Blast, Gets hot
1x 36" S1D6+4, AP1, Heavy1
5++ vs one single hit each enemy shooting phase (May be exchanged for an ork energy shield 5++ to be bearer and all models at 6" for +25 points)
Originally Posted by lordbeefy
and can other chapters....BA and SW etc use them?
Looks like, but they have to be taken as part of the detachment mentioned before.
The book says that all the flyers described in this book replace their Data Sheets in all the current codex. Seems that this rules are coming to stay.
Do Tyranids even count as being part of the "flyers" club anymore? Maybe they'll finally get a plastic Harridan and be able to field Gargoyle swarms to splatter up other races' windshields.
I think you're better holding out hope for something that isn't currently in production at FW. It is interesting to note that the biggest thing that got discontinued from FW's Navy line? Bombs.
I know that I'd be ecstatic for the Guard to get a Marauder kit with the Destroyer and Vigilant variants. Marauder does the heavy lifting, Vigilant gets to be a command and control vehicle for the army--boosting up the range of Vox and Orders, granting bonuses to Reserve rolls, etc.
I think you're better holding out hope for something that isn't currently in production at FW. It is interesting to note that the biggest thing that got discontinued from FW's Navy line? Bombs.
I know that I'd be ecstatic for the Guard to get a Marauder kit with the Destroyer and Vigilant variants. Marauder does the heavy lifting, Vigilant gets to be a command and control vehicle for the army--boosting up the range of Vox and Orders, granting bonuses to Reserve rolls, etc.
Yeah, but lets not kid ourselves. If there is a new group of flyers coming out, one of them will be for Space Marines. The Fire Raptor or Storm Eagle are prime choices because they make use of Stormraven parts. And GW Plastic doesn't necessarily make FW kits go away.
I think you're better holding out hope for something that isn't currently in production at FW. It is interesting to note that the biggest thing that got discontinued from FW's Navy line? Bombs.
I know that I'd be ecstatic for the Guard to get a Marauder kit with the Destroyer and Vigilant variants. Marauder does the heavy lifting, Vigilant gets to be a command and control vehicle for the army--boosting up the range of Vox and Orders, granting bonuses to Reserve rolls, etc.
They also pulled the Barracuda, which I found very surprising as it seemed to be quite a popular kit. I was hoping that they'd rerelease it with the upcoming Tau/Ad Mech IA book, but now I'm hoping for a plastic version!
Since we're all daydreaming and that don't cost a thing, I'd love Imperial Navy stuff, maybe even some sort of heavy lander for Guard. All the mentions of drop ships in Gaunt's Ghosts and not a single reference picture to show for it
Imperial Navy flyer kit with their own formation/detachment similar to imperial knights. Let all of the imperium rejoice!
Also, hoping the Harlequins get a fast attack slot anti vehicle flyer. It's the only thing missing that would allow them to compete against any army out there (I currently ally in a formation of nightwing interceptors for the job)
TheWaspinator wrote: If the Renegade box is the model, I'd half-expect it to be two Imperium flyers with rules to have one of them added to a Chaos force.
Hmm, it's probably going to be 28mm scale isn't it?
Why do I have the feeling that the whole 'specialist games' revival will be all in 28mm? Knights fighting each other, 28mm flyers...maybe Adeptus Titanicus with FW's Warlord Titans?
Well, Blood Angels and Grey Knights are the only Loyalist Space Marines that only have 1 flyer variant if I'm not mistaken, and they did share the Stormraven before. Perhaps they're getting a Stormtalon-esque gunship?
They are one of the few codexes left without the new 'Decurion' style formations, so I'm guessing they'll get some campaign book like Curse of the Wulfen sooner or later.
TheWaspinator wrote: If the Renegade box is the model, I'd half-expect it to be two Imperium flyers with rules to have one of them added to a Chaos force.
Chaos stormraven?
That could work. And actually, it's worth mentioning Betrayal at Calth in this line of thought. That and Renegade makes two boxed games that are designed so that you can have the two sides be combined into a single Imperium or Chaos army. That's starting to look like a pattern to these new specialist games.
I was hoping this would be a 6mm flyer game :( 28mm is terrible for a flyer game, 15mm is probably the biggest you'd want to go for a dogfighting type game. 6mm for one that is bigger scale than a simple dogfight.
Reading the rumours, I take it as
1. There will be 2 new flyers and a supplement.
2. There will be a flyer game including /discounting 2 older flyer kits.
It would be nice to see eldar show up outside of their codexes.
Perhaps they try to fix both DE and BA with pimped flyer power.
And perhaps Valkyries for the flyer game -awesome kit that probably dont sell as well as they used to (these days I would not even say renegade valkyries sounds impossible).
AdMech and AS lacks fliers...
DA dont have access to SR
BA and GK have the SR only without a combat only flier
The two new kits could be two Admech fliers (smaller combat only and bigger transport too)...
The old kits boxed game could be xeno flier against BAST to get BA access to a combat flier too...
I said back then, hey, fliers don't really make sense at that scale, I'm not sure where this is goingis a good thing.
Now we have 34€ infantry characters in plastic mounted on 60mm bases that are only slightly less expensive than an Ork Bomma and the 40k rules are as healthy as ever!
Snark aside, I'm interested if this'll make as much as a splash as Renegade likely will - flyers are mostly in a price band that is still reasonable for a large-ish Warmachine and I don't think there's a pent up demand as there was for Knights (which I don't really get, but, hey, they'll pave the way for even more cool nostalgia tickling stuff).
Unless they drop a plastic Thunderhawk. Millions of people will lose their minds, wallets will cry and Kirby ascends to god, err, deamonhood.
Binabik15 wrote: Snark aside, I'm interested if this'll make as much as a splash as Renegade likely will - flyers are mostly in a price band that is still reasonable for a large-ish Warmachine and I don't think there's a pent up demand as there was for Knights (which I don't really get, but, hey, they'll pave the way for even more cool nostalgia tickling stuff).
Unless they drop a plastic Thunderhawk. Millions of people will lose their minds, wallets will cry and Kirby ascends to god, err, deamonhood.
I think 90% of the Renegade excitement is 1 person who wants 2 Knights for cheap.
If the flyer box has 2 flyers from opposing armies I don't think it's going to be anywhere near as exciting for people who just want cheap models.
AllSeeingSkink wrote: I think 90% of the Renegade excitement is 1 person who wants 2 Knights for cheap.
If the flyer box has 2 flyers from opposing armies I don't think it's going to be anywhere near as exciting for people who just want cheap models.
It will sell well if there's a good savings, people will trade or ebay the flyer they don't want. It will work precisely as the boxed starters work and if the price is right, it will sell just fine.
Having bought Renegade, I can say the game included is actually pretty fun. It's not complex. There's no point system. But you can play with 2+ players easily, with free for all or teams. Wouldn't even be hard to make wraithknights, Khorne-dozers and stompas work with mild tweaking. Actually, a 3 or 5 knight per side setup would be more enjoyable. One game lasted about 40 mins, and DIDNT end in a slap fight in the middle of the board. There was a slap fight, but combat broke off and ended up gunning each other down with intervening terrain, and came down to a very close game. Decently fun, but not "deep".
If we get a flier game that works similarly, it'll be awesome.
AllSeeingSkink wrote: I think 90% of the Renegade excitement is 1 person who wants 2 Knights for cheap.
If the flyer box has 2 flyers from opposing armies I don't think it's going to be anywhere near as exciting for people who just want cheap models.
It will sell well if there's a good savings, people will trade or ebay the flyer they don't want. It will work precisely as the boxed starters work and if the price is right, it will sell just fine.
True. I think GW pricing is so insane that fans will jump on anything that might save them a dime. Though I still don't think flyers are going to have the appeal of a starter set (which usually are good for building decent sized forces or filling out existing armies if you buy multiples of them) or the Knight set (where the savings are immediate and don't require you to find someone to split it with or eBay off bits of it).
But I'm probably still just biased by how stupid I think it is flyers are even a thing in 40k
For the Summer of Flyers, can we also get ways to deal with them for armies with bad AA like Grey Knights and Blood Angels? Or give us out own frickin' flyers that aren't poached by C:SM as well? Same goes for CSM. Heldrakes are nice, but give them some more stuff too. As Mech doesn't need a flyer. They have good AA.
Actually the box will come with 2 brand new SM flyers that no one's ever heard of before along with rules for using them in 40k. They will also introduce a new faction, Renegade Space Marine Flyers, who are space marines flyers that have fallen to Chaos. They use the same models as SM but have special transfers (included in the box) to make them Chaos. They are Battle Brothers with Chaos Space Marines.
If I was to take a guess, if they're specificly bringing in new fliers they'll likely be aprt of a special "Imperial Navy" faction. with a specific formation allowing you to take 1 or more Imperial navy fliers.
it worked well for GW with Knights, and players snapped IKs up. itshould work nicely with fliers and honestly be pretty fluffy too. this'll be followed with FW within a week releasing updates to their fliers, explaining how they work within the new Imperial Navy faction
Like I said, we could really use an Imperial Navy Thunderbolt, it is the iconic fighter of the Imperium, plus the Imperial Guard could stand to get a more widely available fighter, as the Valkyrie is a transport / gunship and not a dedicated interceptor.
Hell yes if it's a formation for Imperial Navy. I need excuses to buy Lightning, Avenger and Bomber/Destroyer. Imagine a Bomber getting some apocalytic blast D bomb
A multi-part plastic kit that makes the brand new Stormhawk Interceptor – a deadly heavily armed and armoured Space marine fighter, designed to hunt and kill other flyers. This kit can alternatively also be assembled as a Stormtalon Gunship
This product is a must for all fans of the Space Wolves and customers will want to buy more than one box to build bigger units or several units
Another the other kit:
A multi-part plastic kit that makes the brand new Wazbom Blastajet – a deadly, gun heavy, Ork flying fortress. The kit can also be assembled as either a Dakkajet, a Burna-bommer or a Blitza-bommer.
So, thusfar, it is a new Space Wolf flyer that is based off the Stormtalon Gunship and a new Ork flyer. If the Stormhawk is an additional sprue for the Stormtalon while still containing the original kit, perhaps this will be a way they could make exclusive interceptor kits for Grey Knights or Blood Angels. Kinda weird that Space Wolves are getting another new flyer when they already have two. I suppose a smaller, non-transport flyer is a good idea. Maybe they will do the reverse for Dark Angels and make a transport flyer.
For the most part, these just look like add-ons to existing kits. Kinda disappointed.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
CragHack wrote: Oh yay, more shinies for marines if those are true :|
It is an add-on sprue for the Stormtalon Gunship and the Dakka-Jet. It isn't a brand new kit.
Kanluwen wrote: I very much doubt that the Stormhawk is going to be Space Wolf exclusive.
I hope it is a kit available for use by any Space Marine faction and that the Space Wolves reference was a mistake. Dark Angels, Blood Angels, and Grey Knights need an interceptor flyer. Dangles have the Nephilim, but it isn't good, and Bangles and GK have nothing at all. Being able to take a Stormtalon derivative would fix the issue for all of them.
Honestly, I would not be surprised if it was C:SM only though.
As for the Dakkajet sprue, I would be willing to bet this is what the hint from WD was referencing.
I figured. Still, probably going to get one of these. I am curious what slot it will take and how many points. I could sacrifice my Land Speeder Typhoon and Aegis Defense Line to fudge some points up for this thing. Would three flyers be overkill?
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Kanluwen wrote: The Marine one still looks ridiculous, IMO.
The Ork flyer looks Orky. Really all I can say.
Exceedingly disappointed by the lack of a Guard flyer.
Summer of Flyers. Hopefully everyone gets a new one. Like every army.
I would be so happy if they release a necron flyer with a covered cockpit.
The fact that is a huge "SHOOT ME HERE" spot on the current necron flyers, which aren't even open topped, is terrible model design.
It's slightly less ugly than most marine flyers but still hideously ugly. Is it maybe an add on sprue for the storm guppy?
I very much want a plastic Thunderbolt, but I'm scared GW will ruin it. It's currently a really nice looking aircraft and I'm sure GW can feth it up in a conversion to plastic.
Trying to figure out the Ork flyer.
A smasha gun, Kustum Mega Blaster parts, KFF parts?
And shell casing ejecting from where the supa shootas are usually mounted. But no shoota weapon? Or is it some kind of Kustum mega shoota ? Would have been kinda cool if they had mounted a Gorkanuts DeffStorm kannon...
Interesting. It just has less guns on it than I had expected, for a flying fortress. I am excited to see more of it and I hope I can get them in squadrons or add them to my Air armadas. That would be amazing. I'm sure a bunch of those weapons have "gets hot" special rule.
oni wrote: WTF!! What is that dumb gak? Is it supposed to be a drone? Where are the ammo hoppers for the assault canons?
You know, now that you mention it, where are the assault cannons getting ammo from? Have Space Marines discovered cheat codes? I can imagine it now - the pilot sees a large enemy formation of aircraft, pulls out a nintendo game pad, and starts inputting the Holy Litany of Saint Konami.
angelofvengeance wrote: I actually like that Astartes flyer a lot. beats the hell out of the Storm Talon IMO. The Ork flyer is... well... Orky. Flying deathtrap with big gunz
It could be belt fed through the wing from storage in the main body.
I do definitely like the profile of these better than the Stormtalon. It looks more like an actual plane. I just noticed that the nosegun is actually a triple autocannon, not a Lascannon.
Hopefully next week two more armies get a flyer. Hopefully they don't do some dumb gak like release "flyers" for Sigmar.
angelofvengeance wrote: I actually like that Astartes flyer a lot. beats the hell out of the Storm Talon IMO. The Ork flyer is... well... Orky. Flying deathtrap with big gunz
The Stormhawk is a Stormtalon with extra gubbins.
Oh, I know. Still, if GW had gone for that look with the Storm Talon from the outset, I've no doubt it would've had a warmer reception.
Honestly really like the marine flyer, reminds me of a beefed up land speeder tempest, and honestly what the stormtalon should of looked like in the first place.
casvalremdeikun wrote: I do definitely like the profile of these better than the Stormtalon. It looks more like an actual plane. I just noticed that the nosegun is actually a triple autocannon, not a Lascannon.
It actually looks like one of the mounts from the stalker. Not that there is a huge difference between that and a triple barreled autocannon, but the bit looks familiar.
If you did stick a TLLC under the nose, and replace the AsCs with more LCs, you would get a decent counts-as Xiphon.
I do like the way it looks, but rules are going to make/break this personally. My talon doesn’t get into many lists these days due to formations. Unless this guy is retroactively shoehorned into some, It’s going to be even harder to fit into a list. With the guns it’s packing, It’s not going to be cheep, and if it’s still based on the talon, it’s going to be fragile.
angelofvengeance wrote: I actually like that Astartes flyer a lot. beats the hell out of the Storm Talon IMO. The Ork flyer is... well... Orky. Flying deathtrap with big gunz
In the manner that a puddle of puke might beat the hell out of a puddle of chunky diarrhea.
casvalremdeikun wrote: I do definitely like the profile of these better than the Stormtalon. It looks more like an actual plane. I just noticed that the nosegun is actually a triple autocannon, not a Lascannon.
It actually looks like one of the mounts from the stalker. Not that there is a huge difference between that and a triple barreled autocannon, but the bit looks familiar.
If you did stick a TLLC under the nose, and replace the AsCs with more LCs, you would get a decent counts-as Xiphon.
I do like the way it looks, but rules are going to make/break this personally. My talon doesn’t get into many lists these days due to formations. Unless this guy is retroactively shoehorned into some, It’s going to be even harder to fit into a list. With the guns it’s packing, It’s not going to be cheep, and if it’s still based on the talon, it’s going to be fragile.
To be fair, you are going to be at a pretty decent range to shoot things, the missiles and chin mounted autocannons will no doubt be 48" range. Unless your opponent has some decent AA, they'll be hard pressed to shoot it down.
I love me some Ork vehicles and especially the flyers but...... that Ork flyer feels a bit too clunky. Seems to me that if Orks are going to throw extra weapons on a bommer/dakkajet then there should be A LOT of dakka on that plane. One clunky Kustom Mega Kannon type gun does not fulfill the criteria for "moar dakka". Also GW needs to stop painting their Ork stuff fething yellow. Such an ugly color and a real bear to paint.
Now that Stormhawk looks freaking awesome, I just hope its an option for Space Wolves and/or Grey Knights (Dark Angels and Blood Angels too because lets be fair). Tired of everything being only for Codex: Spess Mahreens.
angelofvengeance wrote: I actually like that Astartes flyer a lot. beats the hell out of the Storm Talon IMO. The Ork flyer is... well... Orky. Flying deathtrap with big gunz
In the manner that a puddle of puke might beat the hell out of a puddle of chunky diarrhea.
I do like the way it looks, but rules are going to make/break this personally. My talon doesn’t get into many lists these days due to formations. Unless this guy is retroactively shoehorned into some, It’s going to be even harder to fit into a list. With the guns it’s packing, It’s not going to be cheep, and if it’s still based on the talon, it’s going to be fragile.
To be fair, you are going to be at a pretty decent range to shoot things, the missiles and chin mounted autocannons will no doubt be 48" range. Unless your opponent has some decent AA, they'll be hard pressed to shoot it down.
It’s always a little pre-emptive to start thinking about rules from just a picture, but I’ll start anyway.
It looks like it’s not going to have the hover trait. The wings look fixed, and it also looks like something new is covering the belly thrusters. And while it might look more graceful then the normal bricks marines take to the air in, I don’t see it getting vector dancer, or any other movement related rule.
The guns also look to all be fixed front. The chin gun might still be turreted. But at least 2/3rds of the firepower you are probably paying a pretty penny for are going to need to be pointed at your target.
So while you might be able to get the first volley off at stand-off range, you are either going to have to commit to a high-risk attack run at closer range, or take your 90 turn and fly off the table. And how much time to you want your expensive flyer lingering off the board?
My experience with my talon generally has it show up and spend 2 turns as a flyer, then switch to hover to stay on the table to get in another round of shooting. This guy is probably only going to get in two rounds. If it’s lucky, it might get in a third by flying off to ongoing reserves. Depending on it’s initial reserves roll and how long the game runs. Depending on it’s points, and other special rules, it might not be a very point efficient use of space in a list.
casvalremdeikun wrote: I do definitely like the profile of these better than the Stormtalon. It looks more like an actual plane. I just noticed that the nosegun is actually a triple autocannon, not a Lascannon.
It actually looks like one of the mounts from the stalker. Not that there is a huge difference between that and a triple barreled autocannon, but the bit looks familiar.
If you did stick a TLLC under the nose, and replace the AsCs with more LCs, you would get a decent counts-as Xiphon.
I do like the way it looks, but rules are going to make/break this personally. My talon doesn’t get into many lists these days due to formations. Unless this guy is retroactively shoehorned into some, It’s going to be even harder to fit into a list. With the guns it’s packing, It’s not going to be cheep, and if it’s still based on the talon, it’s going to be fragile.
Good point. It definitely looks like an Icarus Stormcannon. Perhaps it will add Interceptor to the Stormhawk, which would be neat but kinda worthless to a flyer since they come in late. I do expect this thing to push 200 points due to the number of weapons. At the very least it packs an Autocannon of some sort, the pod weapons of the Stormtalon, and a Twin-Linked Assault Cannon. Who knows what else it has. And if abilities get thrown in on top of that, it will be a pretty nice, if fragile, flyer. If it comes with a formation for running it and some Stormtalons or if it is available for Blood Angels, I am definitely in. I do have one unbuilt Stormtalon, if I could get the upgrade sprue separately, I might get myself two of these!
angelofvengeance wrote: I actually like that Astartes flyer a lot. beats the hell out of the Storm Talon IMO. The Ork flyer is... well... Orky. Flying deathtrap with big gunz
In the manner that a puddle of puke might beat the hell out of a puddle of chunky diarrhea.
Welcome to the ignore list. Enjoy your stay.
Enjoy your "safe space", away from that mean old "real world" where people have opinions that differ from yours.
Well, you were the one dismissing/ridiculing HIS opinion as not valid.
commander dante wrote: Just watch as BA get the shaft again when they are not allowed access to it...
Without a doubt this is going to happen. BA will only get the Stormraven. I would love for them to get an interceptor version of the Stormraven. Take off all transport capacity and make it a gunboat. Unfortunately, that describes the Fire Raptor and C:SM get that one.
I'm hoping that SM flyer has the option to put the old Stormtalon canopy on it. I'm not a fan of the fully enclosed look. It makes too much sense to armor the pilot.
casvalremdeikun wrote: Good point. It definitely looks like an Icarus Stormcannon. Perhaps it will add Interceptor to the Stormhawk, which would be neat but kinda worthless to a flyer since they come in late. I do expect this thing to push 200 points due to the number of weapons. At the very least it packs an Autocannon of some sort, the pod weapons of the Stormtalon, and a Twin-Linked Assault Cannon. Who knows what else it has. And if abilities get thrown in on top of that, it will be a pretty nice, if fragile, flyer. If it comes with a formation for running it and some Stormtalons or if it is available for Blood Angels, I am definitely in. I do have one unbuilt Stormtalon, if I could get the upgrade sprue separately, I might get myself two of these!
Interceptor would make it less reliant on reserve rolls. When you have a glass hammer, you want it to show up after the other guy, so you get the first shot in. And if you have a good enough hammer, one shot should be all it takes. Interceptor, coupled with long range guns (which it has) will let you get your shots off in a dogfight, even if you go second.
But I suspect that it’s not going to have it, as the interceptor is probably based more on the overall “array” nature of the stalker, and not the gun itself. But that’s just me guessing.
(Which is the stage we are at in the leak cycle, )
Enjoy your "safe space", away from that mean old "real world" where people have opinions that differ from yours.
Adult way of stating your opinion: "I don't like the aesthetics of this new flyer, it does not appeal to me"
That wasn't that hard, yes?
We're getting ridiculously bad turd designs so often that something only slightly better, something that's not even new, just a conversion sprue for one of the turdiest designs of the last several years, is being lauded.
And, yes, that's my opinion. Others are welcome to theirs.
They took a model that had terrible proportions that look neither plausible as a working, flying war machine, nor aesthetically pleasing, and kept the idiotic proportions when they made a new sprue to add bits onto it. It could have been decent, even good, but they refuse to see the core problem with the design.
I just hope that the cockpit and nosegun mount need to be used together. I would use the original Stormtalon cockpit assembly if it can be done without alteration. I agree that it probably won't have hover, so the Storm Talon will still have a place.
commander dante wrote: Just watch as BA get the shaft again when they are not allowed access to it...
Without a doubt this is going to happen. BA will only get the Stormraven. I would love for them to get an interceptor version of the Stormraven. Take off all transport capacity and make it a gunboat. Unfortunately, that describes the Fire Raptor and C:SM get that one.
Well, I'm not terribly broken up about not getting it. I don't hate the stormhawk, but I'm not excited about it either. Probably wont buy it either way.
If GW ever give the BA another flyer I would prefer an air superiority fighter based on the DA's Nephilim or your gunboat idea.
commander dante wrote: Just watch as BA get the shaft again when they are not allowed access to it...
Without a doubt this is going to happen. BA will only get the Stormraven. I would love for them to get an interceptor version of the Stormraven. Take off all transport capacity and make it a gunboat. Unfortunately, that describes the Fire Raptor and C:SM get that one.
Well, I'm not terribly broken up about not getting it. I don't hate the stormhawk, but I'm not excited about it either. Probably wont buy it either way.
If GW ever give the BA another flyer I would prefer an air superiority fighter based on the DA's Nephilim or your gunboat idea.
Eh...I would rather we didn't get anything that even visually resembles the Nephilim. I think this is way cart-before-horse because let's face it, Bangles are probably not getting anything.
My guess is $65 US based on conversion rate and that is a lot closer to what the current Ork flyer kit is than $85. I highly doubt they will sell many models at $85.
I really like the look of the new flyer. The Imperium has finally figured out that a glass window isn't the only way for a pilot to see out of his craft.
The thing I find incredibly funny about the Stormhawk is that there are numerous customs people have done to improve the appearance of the Stormtalon, and this looks very similar to a good many of those. Not going to accuse GW of plagiarism, but it is eerily similar.
This is still something GW needs to work on IMO, asking 50% more for a model variant and a load of potentially useless extra pieces is exactly the sort of thing that really dents my optimism for their ability to change.
Razorback +£2.50
Chaos Rhino +£1
Chaos Land Raider +£1
All feature extra sprues over other kits that share the same base,
Azreal13 wrote: This is still something GW needs to work on IMO, asking 50% more for a model variant and a load of potentially useless extra pieces is exactly the sort of thing that really dents my optimism for their ability to change.
Damn straight. I mean, the Ork flyer going from AUD$76 to AUD$114 for a new hat?
I think people who say GW are turning into a great company ever since Kirby got axed are deluding themselves.
Yup agree that the new models are nice but much too expensive. (One step forward two steps back for GW) Two questions. Are these the flyers that will be in the new game or will those be the base versions? Secondly anyone know what the following week's hint is?
Chikout wrote: Yup agree that the new models are nice but much too expensive. (One step forward two steps back for GW) Two questions. Are these the flyers that will be in the new game or will those be the base versions? Secondly anyone know what the following week's hint is?
Y'know...they could be in the new game. Darnok said "two new flyers" before the game came out, but could he have assumed it was a new kit rather than just upgrade frames?
I do like the new marine craft better then the original, but not at that price. I'll glance at discounted retaliers to see how low it can get, but I'll probably pass on that
Azreal13 wrote: This is still something GW needs to work on IMO, asking 50% more for a model variant and a load of potentially useless extra pieces is exactly the sort of thing that really dents my optimism...
Absolutely. They're asking 50 per cent more on the basis there's one more sprue. But they've presumably already recovered the bulk of their investment for the dakkajet kit, so it's hardly costing them 50 per cent more to produce. And as pointed out, even with the extra sprue, that's still only one model on the table.
There was a debate on another spread about the Flash Gitx being overpriced; but they were designed to integrate with Nobz, so you can actually use all the extra bitz you are paying for. This time around you're paying £14.50 to have a few more pieces in your bitz box.
That's what bothers most people about these multi-kit things.
They're not multi-kits. Just because you have a choice of 3 different things in the one box doesn't mean you can build all three of those different things.
50% for a new hat, that means I can't use the old hat? No thanks.
H.B.M.C. wrote: That's what bothers most people about these multi-kit things.
They're not multi-kits. Just because you have a choice of 3 different things in the one box doesn't mean you can build all three of those different things.
50% for a new hat, that means I can't use the old hat? No thanks.
Yup. Going back to the Mek Gunz - it's what, $48USD for the kit? And it makes one mek gun, with the parts/sprues to also build the other variants. Yes, I could be a god little ork player and just convert, but what if I don't feel like it? Had the kit been $48 and made two mek gunz instead, I'd already several boxes. In the case of this new jet, a $25 price increase so I can built another variant and have a couple dozen parts left over doesn't do me any good.
More pictures of the Stormhawk Interceptor from Lady Atia's blog
Spoiler:
Price of the Stormhawk is $55 USD. So $65 USD for the Ork plane seems about right(it's hard to tell an 8 from a 6 sometimes with these slightly out of focus photos).
Curious to see whether these will interact with new formations like the BaC models (swap in for model "X") or if they will get new formations of their own eventually.
Kanluwen wrote: More pictures of the Stormhawk Interceptor from Lady Atia's blog
Spoiler:
Price of the Stormhawk is $55 USD. So $65 USD for the Ork plane seems about right(it's hard to tell an 8 from a 6 sometimes with these slightly out of focus photos).
So only $9.50 for the extra sprue on the Stormhawk. Not as big as a price jump as I was fearing.
That new sm flyer looks decked out in weapons. I see the Gatling gun from the stalker in the nose, 2 assault cannons, what looks like a skyhammer, and a pair of heavy bolters next to the cockpit. Beastly.
"... the ones mounted under its wings are an entirely separate part to the ones mounted on the turret of the Stormtalon's nose, so no matter how you build it you'll always have a pair spare!"
What were we just saying about this not being a good thing?
On the other hand, it does mean you can do a quad-Assault Cannon build, which would probably look pretty cool.
$9.50 isn't bad for an upgrade. Too bad it probably won't be available separate, which sucks. The Icarus Stormcannon and the Las-talon both seem like pretty cool weapons for a flyer. I wonder what the chaff-flares will do. Maybe give it a cover save while allowing it to keep firing?
If I end up getting one of these, I will probably try to figure out a way to use the original cockpit. I don't care for the Dreadnought enclosure.
casvalremdeikun wrote: $9.50 isn't bad for an upgrade. Too bad it probably won't be available separate, which sucks. The Icarus Stormcannon and the Las-talon both seem like pretty cool weapons for a flyer. I wonder what the chaff-flares will do. Maybe give it a cover save while allowing it to keep firing?
Well, "Death From the Skies" introduces a dogfight phase and apparently updates all the datasheets for flyers across all factions, so likely Chaff-Flares do something against things with a "heat seeker" or whatever rule.
casvalremdeikun wrote: $9.50 isn't bad for an upgrade. Too bad it probably won't be available separate, which sucks. The Icarus Stormcannon and the Las-talon both seem like pretty cool weapons for a flyer. I wonder what the chaff-flares will do. Maybe give it a cover save while allowing it to keep firing?
Well, "Death From the Skies" introduces a dogfight phase and apparently updates all the datasheets for flyers across all factions, so likely Chaff-Flares do something against things with a "heat seeker" or whatever rule.
Yeah, I can't say I am too thrilled about this thing only being in a separate supplement. That might actually keep me from buying it, to be honest. Not to mention, using it would require your opponent to be okay with playing with the optional rules.
One thing that Death from the Skies might do is ensure that everyone gets some more flyers.
casvalremdeikun wrote: $9.50 isn't bad for an upgrade. Too bad it probably won't be available separate, which sucks. The Icarus Stormcannon and the Las-talon both seem like pretty cool weapons for a flyer. I wonder what the chaff-flares will do. Maybe give it a cover save while allowing it to keep firing?
Well, "Death From the Skies" introduces a dogfight phase and apparently updates all the datasheets for flyers across all factions, so likely Chaff-Flares do something against things with a "heat seeker" or whatever rule.
Yeah, I can't say I am too thrilled about this thing only being in a separate supplement. That might actually keep me from buying it, to be honest. Not to mention, using it would require your opponent to be okay with playing with the optional rules.
"I want to play Death From the Skies".
"Okay"
One thing that Death from the Skies might do is ensure that everyone gets some more flyers.
Not likely. They're updating the datasheets of existing ones, not adding more from the looks.
I would imagine the Dogfight phase would only apply if both players are bringing flyers in their game, and only again if one or both of them have access to these "additional" rules. Shouldn't cause any issues, overall, but depending on the cost of the supplement I'll hold my breath and see. Updated flyer datasheets could be a good thing, some armies' flyers could use a little buffing if that's what they're going to do.
One question I would like to know answer to. Will the new ork flier box REPLACE older box(effective price hike for three older models) or as addition(at which point you only pay higher price for new variant and get lots of bits).
tneva82 wrote: One question I would like to know answer to. Will the new ork flier box REPLACE older box(effective price hike for three older models) or as addition(at which point you only pay higher price for new variant and get lots of bits).
Short answer? Who knows!
Long answer? Who knows! The Imperial Knight kit wasn't replaced by the Knight Warden kit despite the Warden effectively making the Knight kit obsolete.
I swear I'm not getting paid to pimp her blog out!
Great to hear all races will be updated- but I wonder if it's just to add the new Roles or if it would include points changes as well. Quite a few flyers are prohibitively costed for a competitive environment.
tneva82 wrote: One question I would like to know answer to. Will the new ork flier box REPLACE older box(effective price hike for three older models) or as addition(at which point you only pay higher price for new variant and get lots of bits).
My sales rep confirmed this morning that both the Storm Talon and Ork Bomma box are being repacked to include these new options. So they will be a combined kit.
I swear I'm not getting paid to pimp her blog out!
Great to hear all races will be updated- but I wonder if it's just to add the new Roles or if it would include points changes as well. Quite a few flyers are prohibitively costed for a competitive environment.
Guess that all depends kn the new rules,an expensive unit may suddenly become.much more useful.
tneva82 wrote: One question I would like to know answer to. Will the new ork flier box REPLACE older box(effective price hike for three older models) or as addition(at which point you only pay higher price for new variant and get lots of bits).
Short answer? Who knows!
Long answer? Who knows! The Imperial Knight kit wasn't replaced by the Knight Warden kit despite the Warden effectively making the Knight kit obsolete.
The two different knight kits are likely part of the varied price points thing GW was touting, so it's not too out of the question to see this might be the same .
I actually quite like the new Marine flyer, chiefly because it's much easier to pretend it's some kind of drone without the ridiculous little canopy on there.
But it still grinds my gears that they're retconning the prior fluff, especially as they do it in a way that just pisses all over the Imperial Navy.
Yodhrin wrote: But it still grinds my gears that they're retconning the prior fluff, especially as they do it in a way that just pisses all over the Imperial Navy.
Yeah, I have to admit the whole "[New Flyer] is the backbone of the Astartes air support..." made me laugh. Well, you mean it is now. Up until a week ago it didn't exist, unless you're saying that squadrons of these things have always been around, just off-camera to the left there, without us noticing.
I knew one of them would be a Space Marine flyer. Never bet against Marines.
Looks like you were way off on your prediction, Kanluwen. Which is sad, because despite everyone bitching about how overpowered Tau are, a plastic barracuda would have made a lot of sense...especially since it's now OOP at FW.
Yodhrin wrote: But it still grinds my gears that they're retconning the prior fluff, especially as they do it in a way that just pisses all over the Imperial Navy.
Yeah, I have to admit the whole "[New Flyer] is the backbone of the Astartes air support..." made me laugh. Well, you mean it is now. Up until a week ago it didn't exist, unless you're saying that squadrons of these things have always been around, just off-camera to the left there, without us noticing.
It's exactly that, yeah. They kinda wrote themselves into a corner with Marines it seems. They want to keep making endless new models for Marine players to buy because Marines are their baby, their poster boys, their biggest sellers; but the problem is they wrote the fluff in a way that kinda makes it hard to give them anything new because of that whole, you know, "the backwards Imperium doesn't invent or innovate anymore and is regressing technologically" thing. So for the past few years we've just gotten this constant bullgak like "Oh, look at this old STC we found!" or "Let's just pretend we had this all along, 'kay?"
tneva82 wrote: One question I would like to know answer to. Will the new ork flier box REPLACE older box(effective price hike for three older models) or as addition(at which point you only pay higher price for new variant and get lots of bits).
My sales rep confirmed this morning that both the Storm Talon and Ork Bomma box are being repacked to include these new options. So they will be a combined kit.
That stinks if your looking to build one of the Ork flyer formations as that tacks on another $20 for each dakkajet/bommer.
Sidstyler wrote: I knew one of them would be a Space Marine flyer. Never bet against Marines.
Looks like you were way off on your prediction, Kanluwen. Which is sad, because despite everyone bitching about how overpowered Tau are, a plastic barracuda would have made a lot of sense...especially since it's now OOP at FW.
Yeah, I'm kinda irked about a new Marine flyer. I'd have been fine with it if they'd brought it in during the Kauyon book and folded it into the Raven Guard formations--the Stormtalon just felt so forced in for a lot of the formations it's in there.
Sorry that your Tau didn't get anything new, Sid!
Yodhrin wrote: But it still grinds my gears that they're retconning the prior fluff, especially as they do it in a way that just pisses all over the Imperial Navy.
I'm confused as to how the Marines getting a dedicated fighter-interceptor "pisses all over the Imperial Navy"? The Marines have always been a separate entity, with their own armory covering everything from starships to sidearms.
Sidstyler wrote: It's exactly that, yeah. They kinda wrote themselves into a corner with Marines it seems. They want to keep making endless new models for Marine players to buy because Marines are their baby, their poster boys, their biggest sellers; but the problem is they wrote the fluff in a way that kinda makes it hard to give them anything new because of that whole, you know, "the backwards Imperium doesn't invent or innovate anymore and is regressing technologically" thing. So for the past few years we've just gotten this constant bullgak like "Oh, look at this old STC we found!" or "Let's just pretend we had this all along, 'kay?"
Eh. I kinda prefer the "Look, we found an old STC! Rush it into production!" approach.
tneva82 wrote: One question I would like to know answer to. Will the new ork flier box REPLACE older box(effective price hike for three older models) or as addition(at which point you only pay higher price for new variant and get lots of bits).
Short answer? Who knows!
Long answer? Who knows! The Imperial Knight kit wasn't replaced by the Knight Warden kit despite the Warden effectively making the Knight kit obsolete.
The warden kit thingie is promising example as that didn't make knight kit obsolete(since you get basic knight cheaper with it) just like new ork flier kit not making previous kit older obsolete.
Hopefully they go same route...There's been good moves on GW so...Old GW would likely replace old flier box with new one. Now there's hope!
tneva82 wrote: One question I would like to know answer to. Will the new ork flier box REPLACE older box(effective price hike for three older models) or as addition(at which point you only pay higher price for new variant and get lots of bits).
My sales rep confirmed this morning that both the Storm Talon and Ork Bomma box are being repacked to include these new options. So they will be a combined kit.
Oh crap. If true I might be better off buyign 2-3 boxes of old boxes quickly...
Tau flyers are bad? How can it be bad when the bomber is better at shooting air targets while the fighter is better at attacking ground targets? I mean the Tau flyers where clearly well thought out and carefully designed to be optimized and effective combat vehicles
You know what that up-armoured cockpit says to me? Land Speeder Tempest. Get on it GW. Couldn't give less of a feth about sticking more guns on a Stormguppy.
lord_blackfang wrote: Wow, those are both ace. How little work the poor old stormguppy needed to actually look badass, huh?
I assume these are upgrade sprues and not a full remake?
More than likely, yes. I expect they'll kill off the individual kit and sell it as a dual kit at a higher price.
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sockwithaticket wrote: You know what that up-armoured cockpit says to me? Land Speeder Tempest. Get on it GW. Couldn't give less of a feth about sticking more guns on a Stormguppy.
tneva82 wrote: One question I would like to know answer to. Will the new ork flier box REPLACE older box(effective price hike for three older models) or as addition(at which point you only pay higher price for new variant and get lots of bits).
My sales rep confirmed this morning that both the Storm Talon and Ork Bomma box are being repacked to include these new options. So they will be a combined kit.
Oh crap. If true I might be better off buyign 2-3 boxes of old boxes quickly...
Nothing against JHall's sales rep, but I would wait for a more official source before I started stockpiling. Sales reps have an incentive to encourage their vendors to buy on emotion.
Tau flyers are bad? How can it be bad when the bomber is better at shooting air targets while the fighter is better at attacking ground targets? I mean the Tau flyers where clearly well thought out and carefully designed to be optimized and effective combat vehicles
That is very generous. I would say one of them is better at crashing during take off and the other is better at crashing after takeoff.
tneva82 wrote: One question I would like to know answer to. Will the new ork flier box REPLACE older box(effective price hike for three older models) or as addition(at which point you only pay higher price for new variant and get lots of bits).
My sales rep confirmed this morning that both the Storm Talon and Ork Bomma box are being repacked to include these new options. So they will be a combined kit.
Oh crap. If true I might be better off buyign 2-3 boxes of old boxes quickly...
Nothing against JHall's sales rep, but I would wait for a more official source before I started stockpiling. Sales reps have an incentive to encourage their vendors to buy on emotion.
True that. Problem is do we get sufficient advance warning...
Have burna bomber, would like at least 1 of each plane. Maybe 2 dakkajets.
Tau flyers are bad? How can it be bad when the bomber is better at shooting air targets while the fighter is better at attacking ground targets? I mean the Tau flyers where clearly well thought out and carefully designed to be optimized and effective combat vehicles
The Razorshark is designed as a strike fighter ie not a dedicated dogfight aircraft.
Here's the definition of strike fighter:
In current military parlance, a strike fighter is a multi-role combat aircraft designed to operate primarily in the air-to-surface attack role while also incorporating certain performance characteristics of a fighter aircraft.
If there's multiple fighter roles then the Tau don't have enough models to make use of them. We have a Bomber and Strike fighter. No air superiority anymore with the loss of the Barricuda. We technically have the AX-1-0 and other large "Titan Killer" aircraft but I doubt they'll reduce them to Fast Attack choices any time soon and allow them to be Air Superiority.
Also yes your correct about Strike Fighters. I'm not opposed to their roles only their effectiveness. Especially the Sunshark I think that's the one with the useless bomblet generator that can jam and not even be fired for the rest of the game. I wish an alternate kit would take it out and put something else there. Fear the St 5 Ap 5 large blast of laughter as your opponents brush it off. It's the equivalent of a napalm launcher minus the fire side effects. Extremely weak.
How much do you want to bet these "roles" will all be based on formations? lol.
sockwithaticket wrote: You know what that up-armoured cockpit says to me? Land Speeder Tempest. Get on it GW. Couldn't give less of a feth about sticking more guns on a Stormguppy.
This. Loved that Land Speeder!
It's still alive and kicking afaik (though for how much longer would remain to be seen given FW's propensity to disappear things). I'd have a squadron in a heartbeat if they were plastic, much as I like a lot of FW stuff I just can't be bothered with the time sink involved with the prep on stuff bigger than infantry most of the time.
Interested to see what this brings for the Cron flyers. I love my Doom Scythes but they're not exactly great atm, would be cool to see them get some sort of boost.
Kanluwen wrote: Sorry that your Tau didn't get anything new, Sid!
Well I guess there was that massive release last year and the campaign books and FSE stuff, but yeah, this sucks.
I've just really been wanting the plastic barracuda to happen for so long, it's a cool design that unfortunately just wasn't worth it at triple digits. I was really hoping it would happen back in 2013 and was incredibly disappointed we got that ugly POS that we did instead. I was hoping the barracuda going OOP would lead to a plastic release, but I guess not. There's really no excuse not to anymore, with the FW barracuda being effectively retired there's no argument that GW would be cannibalizing their own sales by doing it.
The picture does say all races are having new rules for fliers...
New rules for (existing) flyers, not new flyers.
AFAICT from the pictures it's a new rule supplement with a war zone featuring Imperial Space Marines Vs Orks in the back. Like Apocalypse has new rules for all races but specific rules for Blood Angels vs Orks at Armageddon.
CURNOW wrote: So it looks like the marine flyer has gone from £27 to £33 and the ork from £27 to £42 they really don't want people playing orks do they lol
I feel sorry for chaos lol. The Helldrake is going to be awful at dogfighting giving it's single choice between weapons. Maybe it will get a point drop though..... Ahahaha
Red Corsair wrote: I feel sorry for chaos lol. The Helldrake is going to be awful at dogfighting giving it's single choice between weapons. Maybe it will get a point drop though..... Ahahaha
The chaingun thing on a Heldrake is actually not bad for anti-aircraft. That and it can fly into other aircraft and tear them apart.
Gee-whizz, more Space Marine Toys... what about my poor cha.... oh never mind, we all know the drill.
Donning my Loyalist hat, I already have 3 Space Marine Fliers and so will probably give this one a pass. I don't expect it'll have a hover mode (something I rather like about my Storm Pigeons and Storm Seagull). Like the wings, dislike the old Rhino-esque cockpit armour - can't imagine aiming through a letterbox to shoot is much fun either.
Donning my thinkin' cap, I'm pleased the Orks got something. I'm not so keen on the sheer amount of gubbins on it but I'll be tempted if the rules are good and I can modify it to look how I want - I'm in love with the Ork Burna Bomba
And all you people talking about Tau - word on the streets is that the Tau have a new flier incoming. It's called the Guppy - but don't go posting about it or GW will realise there's a leak.
CURNOW wrote: So it looks like the marine flyer has gone from £27 to £33 and the ork from £27 to £42 they really don't want people playing orks do they lol
The new Blastajet has a good amount of extra bits when you compare it to the Stormhawk...
Kanluwen wrote: Sorry that your Tau didn't get anything new, Sid!
Well I guess there was that massive release last year and the campaign books and FSE stuff, but yeah, this sucks.
I've just really been wanting the plastic barracuda to happen for so long, it's a cool design that unfortunately just wasn't worth it at triple digits. I was really hoping it would happen back in 2013 and was incredibly disappointed we got that ugly POS that we did instead. I was hoping the barracuda going OOP would lead to a plastic release, but I guess not. There's really no excuse not to anymore, with the FW barracuda being effectively retired there's no argument that GW would be cannibalizing their own sales by doing it.
I often see this in threads about upcoming releases and wishlisting, etc. Something along the lines of "I would love to see (FW model "X") released in plastic". I'm pretty new to the hobby, so I'm curious if this is a common thing. Does GW regularly re-release FW models?
I rather like the Stormhawk looks. I was going to buy a Nephilim fighter to convert in to something for 30k but now I am thinking of converting the Stormhawk into something for 30k.
Even with the price hike, the Hawk of Storming is cheaper then the Nephilim.
Allegedly the Stormhawk runs 150 pts with the Icarus, TLHB, and TL Assault Cannons. Stats are 12/11/11 with Agile and Supersonic. The Las-Talon costs 25 pts and the HB can be upgraded for the same prices as the Stormtalon. Of true, I think 155 pts for the base version with SMLs added is a great setup.
Kanluwen wrote: Sorry that your Tau didn't get anything new, Sid!
Well I guess there was that massive release last year and the campaign books and FSE stuff, but yeah, this sucks.
I've just really been wanting the plastic barracuda to happen for so long, it's a cool design that unfortunately just wasn't worth it at triple digits. I was really hoping it would happen back in 2013 and was incredibly disappointed we got that ugly POS that we did instead. I was hoping the barracuda going OOP would lead to a plastic release, but I guess not. There's really no excuse not to anymore, with the FW barracuda being effectively retired there's no argument that GW would be cannibalizing their own sales by doing it.
I often see this in threads about upcoming releases and wishlisting, etc. Something along the lines of "I would love to see (FW model "X") released in plastic". I'm pretty new to the hobby, so I'm curious if this is a common thing. Does GW regularly re-release FW models?
It's a kinda/sorta thing.
Sometimes GW will just release a FW kit in plastic(Skyray, Piranha, Valkyrie, some of the Baneblade variants) and other times they'll take a FW unit and do their own 'pattern' of it(the craptastic Hydra and Manticores for Guard).
I can't think of any that have been done very lately, but that doesn't mean it cannot happen again.
Sometimes GW will just release a FW kit in plastic(Skyray, Piranha, Valkyrie, some of the Baneblade variants) and other times they'll take a FW unit and do their own 'pattern' of it(the craptastic Hydra and Manticores for Guard).
I can't think of any that have been done very lately, but that doesn't mean it cannot happen again.
The most recent is probably the Calth set. Cataphractii Terminator Armor and the Contemptor are basically just the FW sculpts modified to allow plastic casting. And with a near direct port of the FW rules for the contemptor.
I hope this new "roles" thing is meaningful, and opens up some space for other races to get multiple fliers. It would be nice to see the Valkyrie/Vendetta being dropped from a heavily armored deathbird with transport capacity to a troop carrier with ground assault capabilities. It would be great if the Void Raven bomber was a better ground attack craft than the Razorwing, and the Sun Shark bomber not being better at shooting down aircraft than the Razorshark fighter.
BrookM wrote: If we're wishlisting I'll repost what I wanted from the other thread: Thunderbolt!
Oh hell yeah.
To be on topic though, this is a great timed release considering my Stormtalon just became terrain. Stormhawk looks like what the talon should have been. Anyways, I am just skimming so, has a price been set or rumored for this little fellow yet?
BrookM wrote: If we're wishlisting I'll repost what I wanted from the other thread: Thunderbolt!
Oh hell yeah.
To be on topic though, this is a great timed release considering my Stormtalon just became terrain. Stormhawk looks like what the talon should have been. Anyways, I am just skimming so, has a price been set or rumored for this little fellow yet?
insaniak wrote: Ugh... Stormhawk is ugly. Although I think that's mostly the cockpit. Would probably look considerably better with the talon canopy instead.
Ork flyer is the bomb. Love everything about it, and want to have its babies.
I don't think you will be able to make the old cockpit work on the Hawk. The part the nosegun attaches to is probably on the new front fuselage. Could still kitbash it together I am sure.
Apparently the reason it's a different cockpit is because the Stormhawk is launched from orbiting craft rather than being something that can be launched from bases on the ground.
Stormhawk has no conventional landing gear as well for the same reason.
casvalremdeikun wrote: I don't think you will be able to make the old cockpit work on the Hawk. The part the nosegun attaches to is probably on the new front fuselage. Could still kitbash it together I am sure.
The entire cockpit section is a separate piece on the talon, and the armour sourounding the hawk cockpit appears to be exactly the same shape as on the talon.
So it looks like the cockpits should be completely interchangeable.
But even if they're not... they're similar enough that it would be a simple conversion.
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Kanluwen wrote: Apparently the reason it's a different cockpit is because the Stormhawk is launched from orbiting craft rather than being something that can be launched from bases on the ground..
That makes no sense... all of GW's other space-going craft have windows.
I had assumed it was just part of the 'heavier armour' thing.
insaniak wrote: Thunderhawks function as both space-going shuttles and orbital landers.
Yes, they do. And we've had the fluff for awhile now that they've got heat shielding on their bellies-kinda like the space shuttle.
I mean, it all comes down to "hurp they're trying to handwave it" but it kinda/sorta makes a bit of sense to me that the single man craft that drops from orbit to intercept enemy flyers is going to have heat shielding and a fully enclosed cockpit rather than just the 'standard' setup of an atmospheric craft or something that comes in like the space shuttle did(belly down, angling as it approaches to ensure it doesn't screw up).
insaniak wrote: Ork flyer is the bomb. Love everything about it, and want to have its babies.
Hahaha
And yeah, agreed - it is killer!!
Finally! Something orky I can spend money on! Wahoooo!
I was dreaming that we'd get the 'uge bombers from Aeronautica Imperialis in 40K scale, but a mekboy bommer is ace! Now if GW would just make it possible to buy Deff Koptas again (not that I need more of those either).
Oh yay, another ugly space marine flyer, and more rules bloat with an entire new phase dedicated to flyers. We can only hope the rules aren't the utter garbage of the original Death From The Skies book, which made AoS look like a deep and well-designed game.
insaniak wrote: Ugh... Stormhawk is ugly. Although I think that's mostly the cockpit. Would probably look considerably better with the talon canopy instead.
Ork flyer is the bomb. Love everything about it, and want to have its babies.
I don't think you will be able to make the old cockpit work on the Hawk. The part the nosegun attaches to is probably on the new front fuselage. Could still kitbash it together I am sure.
It states in one of the paragraphs that this has the Stormtalon sprue in it apparently? Not sure if I am a fan of that. Would rather it be a separate kit for cheaper.
Nah, I would expect that the original knight is only available for a long as they have stock packaged in the warehouse. Once it sells through, it will be quietly deleted.
insaniak wrote: Dual kits at the way of things now. Saves on shelf space and inventory.
You are right, they have been. I'm pretty sure the razorback and knight are the same way, as it has a rhino/other knight variants in it, etc. Without one, you couldn't build the other technically. The real reason for that post, and I should have clarified was that the post I quoted was about the stormtalon canopy instead of the up armored version.
Since they supply it, and they are very close to being the same kit, I don't think much converting would be required. Just some part swaps, maybe some cutting to get the normal canopy on the Stormhawk.
insaniak wrote: Nah, I would expect that the original knight is only available for a long as they have stock packaged in the warehouse. Once it sells through, it will be quietly deleted.
Been there quite a while so even then I don't expect existing fliers to go away in a hurry if they follow same pattern.
Veteran Sergeant wrote: It's still a little short and squished looking, but this is a vast improvement over the Stormtalon.
I actually prefer the Stormtalon. I think the mistake a lot of people make is viewing the Stormtalon as a jet fighter like an F-15 when in fact it's an attack helicopter, it's the equivilant of an Apache gunship. It even has rules that boost it when in hover mode, and has a very similar armament.
General Kroll wrote: I think the mistake a lot of people make is viewing the Stormtalon as a jet fighter like an F-15 when in fact it's an attack helicopter, it's the equivilant of an Apache gunship..
No, I don't think that's the problem that most people have with it at all. It's fairly obviously supposed to be a helicopter analogue.
The problem that people have with it is from still, despite all prior experience, expecting Imperial aircraft to look at least vaguely aerodromic.
Putting wings on it helps alleviate the front-heaviness of the design.
insaniak wrote: Thunderhawks function as both space-going shuttles and orbital landers.
Yes, they do. And we've had the fluff for awhile now that they've got heat shielding on their bellies-kinda like the space shuttle.
I mean, it all comes down to "hurp they're trying to handwave it" but it kinda/sorta makes a bit of sense to me that the single man craft that drops from orbit to intercept enemy flyers is going to have heat shielding and a fully enclosed cockpit rather than just the 'standard' setup of an atmospheric craft or something that comes in like the space shuttle did(belly down, angling as it approaches to ensure it doesn't screw up).
Aren't Thunderbolts also frequently launched from space and then dive in to the atmosphere to fight? I'm sure I've read something to that effect in the Aeronautica Imperialis book.
casvalremdeikun wrote: I don't think you will be able to make the old cockpit work on the Hawk. The part the nosegun attaches to is probably on the new front fuselage. Could still kitbash it together I am sure.
The entire cockpit section is a separate piece on the talon, and the armour sourounding the hawk cockpit appears to be exactly the same shape as on the talon.
So it looks like the cockpits should be completely interchangeable.
But even if they're not... they're similar enough that it would be a simple conversion.
The issue is the attachment point for the nosegun. The cockpits absolutely are interchangeable, but the Icarus Stormcannon mount is probably not compatible with the original cockpit. Shouldn't be too hard to fix though.
Sidstyler wrote: I knew one of them would be a Space Marine flyer. Never bet against Marines.
Looks like you were way off on your prediction, Kanluwen. Which is sad, because despite everyone bitching about how overpowered Tau are, a plastic barracuda would have made a lot of sense...especially since it's now OOP at FW.
Yodhrin wrote: But it still grinds my gears that they're retconning the prior fluff, especially as they do it in a way that just pisses all over the Imperial Navy.
Yeah, I have to admit the whole "[New Flyer] is the backbone of the Astartes air support..." made me laugh. Well, you mean it is now. Up until a week ago it didn't exist, unless you're saying that squadrons of these things have always been around, just off-camera to the left there, without us noticing.
It's exactly that, yeah. They kinda wrote themselves into a corner with Marines it seems. They want to keep making endless new models for Marine players to buy because Marines are their baby, their poster boys, their biggest sellers; but the problem is they wrote the fluff in a way that kinda makes it hard to give them anything new because of that whole, you know, "the backwards Imperium doesn't invent or innovate anymore and is regressing technologically" thing. So for the past few years we've just gotten this constant bullgak like "Oh, look at this old STC we found!" or "Let's just pretend we had this all along, 'kay?"
It's not even the "oh no, we totes had those things lying about in the armoury all the time, Brother Goober flew one just last week, didn't you see?" thing, it's that in their desperation to keep bloating Marines as a faction they trampling all over the actual point of Space Marines in the(now old, apparently) fluff, and all over the supposed roles of the other factions.
Space Marines were Super Future Space Templar Special Forces Monks, that was their appeal. The post-Heresy division of military power in the Imperium was a cool bit of fluff. Now all of that is out the window because the Space Marines had to be able to be SFSTSFM and field tank battalions and an air force, and be the best at all of them, so the elite Special Forces unit that was supposed to be banned by Imperial Decree from operating air & space fighters & bombers because that role was given to the Imperial Navy(hence why technically even Guard Valkyries are Navy assets with Navy pilots on secondment) are now trotting around with gunships and superiority fighters galore, and of course they're the bestest gunships and fighters ever, much more bestest than those silly normal human planes which are poo so you should buy more Spehz Marinz
Sidstyler wrote: I knew one of them would be a Space Marine flyer. Never bet against Marines.
Looks like you were way off on your prediction, Kanluwen. Which is sad, because despite everyone bitching about how overpowered Tau are, a plastic barracuda would have made a lot of sense...especially since it's now OOP at FW.
Yodhrin wrote: But it still grinds my gears that they're retconning the prior fluff, especially as they do it in a way that just pisses all over the Imperial Navy.
Yeah, I have to admit the whole "[New Flyer] is the backbone of the Astartes air support..." made me laugh. Well, you mean it is now. Up until a week ago it didn't exist, unless you're saying that squadrons of these things have always been around, just off-camera to the left there, without us noticing.
It's exactly that, yeah. They kinda wrote themselves into a corner with Marines it seems. They want to keep making endless new models for Marine players to buy because Marines are their baby, their poster boys, their biggest sellers; but the problem is they wrote the fluff in a way that kinda makes it hard to give them anything new because of that whole, you know, "the backwards Imperium doesn't invent or innovate anymore and is regressing technologically" thing. So for the past few years we've just gotten this constant bullgak like "Oh, look at this old STC we found!" or "Let's just pretend we had this all along, 'kay?"
It's not even the "oh no, we totes had those things lying about in the armoury all the time, Brother Goober flew one just last week, didn't you see?" thing, it's that in their desperation to keep bloating Marines as a faction they trampling all over the actual point of Space Marines in the(now old, apparently) fluff, and all over the supposed roles of the other factions.
Space Marines were Super Future Space Templar Special Forces Monks, that was their appeal. The post-Heresy division of military power in the Imperium was a cool bit of fluff. Now all of that is out the window because the Space Marines had to be able to be SFSTSFM and field tank battalions and an air force, and be the best at all of them, so the elite Special Forces unit that was supposed to be banned by Imperial Decree from operating air & space fighters & bombers because that role was given to the Imperial Navy(hence why technically even Guard Valkyries are Navy assets with Navy pilots on secondment) are now trotting around with gunships and superiority fighters galore, and of course they're the bestest gunships and fighters ever, much more bestest than those silly normal human planes which are poo so you should buy more Spehz Marinz
Yeah, the game and the setting would have been so much better if marines were really strong, but kept few in number with limited options, and encouraged to supplement other Imperial forces. The guard should have been the baseline, not the marines.
Sidstyler wrote: I knew one of them would be a Space Marine flyer. Never bet against Marines.
Looks like you were way off on your prediction, Kanluwen. Which is sad, because despite everyone bitching about how overpowered Tau are, a plastic barracuda would have made a lot of sense...especially since it's now OOP at FW.
Yodhrin wrote: But it still grinds my gears that they're retconning the prior fluff, especially as they do it in a way that just pisses all over the Imperial Navy.
Yeah, I have to admit the whole "[New Flyer] is the backbone of the Astartes air support..." made me laugh. Well, you mean it is now. Up until a week ago it didn't exist, unless you're saying that squadrons of these things have always been around, just off-camera to the left there, without us noticing.
It's exactly that, yeah. They kinda wrote themselves into a corner with Marines it seems. They want to keep making endless new models for Marine players to buy because Marines are their baby, their poster boys, their biggest sellers; but the problem is they wrote the fluff in a way that kinda makes it hard to give them anything new because of that whole, you know, "the backwards Imperium doesn't invent or innovate anymore and is regressing technologically" thing. So for the past few years we've just gotten this constant bullgak like "Oh, look at this old STC we found!" or "Let's just pretend we had this all along, 'kay?"
It's not even the "oh no, we totes had those things lying about in the armoury all the time, Brother Goober flew one just last week, didn't you see?" thing, it's that in their desperation to keep bloating Marines as a faction they trampling all over the actual point of Space Marines in the(now old, apparently) fluff, and all over the supposed roles of the other factions.
Space Marines were Super Future Space Templar Special Forces Monks, that was their appeal. The post-Heresy division of military power in the Imperium was a cool bit of fluff. Now all of that is out the window because the Space Marines had to be able to be SFSTSFM and field tank battalions and an air force, and be the best at all of them, so the elite Special Forces unit that was supposed to be banned by Imperial Decree from operating air & space fighters & bombers because that role was given to the Imperial Navy(hence why technically even Guard Valkyries are Navy assets with Navy pilots on secondment) are now trotting around with gunships and superiority fighters galore, and of course they're the bestest gunships and fighters ever, much more bestest than those silly normal human planes which are poo so you should buy more Spehz Marinz
It's like the Mentors chapter don't even exist anymore!
It's not even the "oh no, we totes had those things lying about in the armoury all the time, Brother Goober flew one just last week, didn't you see?" thing, it's that in their desperation to keep bloating Marines as a faction they trampling all over the actual point of Space Marines in the(now old, apparently) fluff, and all over the supposed roles of the other factions.
Even ignoring traditional roles, the more diversified the equipment gets, the silllier the 1000-man limit on the Chapter gets.
Now we have Terminators, Centurions, bikers, Landspeeder pilots, transport drivers, crew for an ever -increasing stable of tanks, and now an air wing... It's all leaving precious few Marines to flesh out tactical squads..
Space Marines were Super Future Space Templar Special Forces Monks, that was their appeal. The post-Heresy division of military power in the Imperium was a cool bit of fluff. Now all of that is out the window because the Space Marines had to be able to be SFSTSFM and field tank battalions and an air force, and be the best at all of them, so the elite Special Forces unit that was supposed to be banned by Imperial Decree from operating air & space fighters & bombers because that role was given to the Imperial Navy(hence why technically even Guard Valkyries are Navy assets with Navy pilots on secondment) are now trotting around with gunships and superiority fighters galore, and of course they're the bestest gunships and fighters ever, much more bestest than those silly normal human planes which are poo so you should buy more Spehz Marinz
How old is this fluff you are talking about and any idea where I might find it? Because I know that as far as the start of the Horus Heresy series (when I started following 40k), Battle Fleet Gothic and even Dawn of War era stuff they all had marines with armoured tank, battleship, gunboat and assault craft.
It's not even the "oh no, we totes had those things lying about in the armoury all the time, Brother Goober flew one just last week, didn't you see?" thing, it's that in their desperation to keep bloating Marines as a faction they trampling all over the actual point of Space Marines in the(now old, apparently) fluff, and all over the supposed roles of the other factions.
Even ignoring traditional roles, the more diversified the equipment gets, the silllier the 1000-man limit on the Chapter gets.
Now we have Terminators, Centurions, bikers, Landspeeder pilots, transport drivers, crew for an ever -increasing stable of tanks, and now an air wing... It's all leaving precious few Marines to flesh out tactical squads..
Isn't that the loop hole of the codex astartes rule. They must have less than 1000 man in the company. But, all the support personnel is in surplus meaning a chapter number is far superior because they got tons of techmarine, servitor, apothecary, chaplain, librarians, special veterans,...
I really like the new marines interceptor. He will look great next to my Dark Talon and the Xiphon.
It's not even the "oh no, we totes had those things lying about in the armoury all the time, Brother Goober flew one just last week, didn't you see?" thing, it's that in their desperation to keep bloating Marines as a faction they trampling all over the actual point of Space Marines in the(now old, apparently) fluff, and all over the supposed roles of the other factions.
Even ignoring traditional roles, the more diversified the equipment gets, the silllier the 1000-man limit on the Chapter gets.
Now we have Terminators, Centurions, bikers, Landspeeder pilots, transport drivers, crew for an ever -increasing stable of tanks, and now an air wing... It's all leaving precious few Marines to flesh out tactical squads..
To be fair, its pretty easy to modify the lore so that its the chapter serfs who do the driving and piloting, and not the marines.
That's probably not going to happen though.
Yodhrin wrote: It's not even the "oh no, we totes had those things lying about in the armoury all the time, Brother Goober flew one just last week, didn't you see?" thing, it's that in their desperation to keep bloating Marines as a faction they trampling all over the actual point of Space Marines in the(now old, apparently) fluff, and all over the supposed roles of the other factions.
Space Marines were Super Future Space Templar Special Forces Monks, that was their appeal. The post-Heresy division of military power in the Imperium was a cool bit of fluff. Now all of that is out the window because the Space Marines had to be able to be SFSTSFM and field tank battalions and an air force, and be the best at all of them, so the elite Special Forces unit that was supposed to be banned by Imperial Decree from operating air & space fighters & bombers because that role was given to the Imperial Navy(hence why technically even Guard Valkyries are Navy assets with Navy pilots on secondment) are now trotting around with gunships and superiority fighters galore, and of course they're the bestest gunships and fighters ever, much more bestest than those silly normal human planes which are poo so you should buy more Spehz Marinz
They should make Space Marine titans. You know you want it!
The space marine air wing thing doesn't actually bother me that much fluff wise. I can't imagine there are humungous squadrons floating about. Probably only 10 pilots total/active at a time (not including thunder hawk). When most large engagements for the chapter probably only consist of 100 marines on the ground, you only require what, 2 or 3 interceptors, if that?
Yeah, the game and the setting would have been so much better if marines were really strong, but kept few in number with limited options, and encouraged to supplement other Imperial forces.
The guard should have been the baseline, not the marines.
It's not even the "oh no, we totes had those things lying about in the armoury all the time, Brother Goober flew one just last week, didn't you see?" thing, it's that in their desperation to keep bloating Marines as a faction they trampling all over the actual point of Space Marines in the(now old, apparently) fluff, and all over the supposed roles of the other factions.
Even ignoring traditional roles, the more diversified the equipment gets, the silllier the 1000-man limit on the Chapter gets.
Now we have Terminators, Centurions, bikers, Landspeeder pilots, transport drivers, crew for an ever -increasing stable of tanks, and now an air wing... It's all leaving precious few Marines to flesh out tactical squads..
To be fair, bikes and landspeeders are manned by Assault Marines (often from reserve companies). Same goes for Centurions, they are Devastors. Tmerinators are 1st company Vets and only equip TDA, when they need to, otherwise they are 'normal' verterans.
Space Marines were Super Future Space Templar Special Forces Monks, that was their appeal. The post-Heresy division of military power in the Imperium was a cool bit of fluff. Now all of that is out the window because the Space Marines had to be able to be SFSTSFM and field tank battalions and an air force, and be the best at all of them, so the elite Special Forces unit that was supposed to be banned by Imperial Decree from operating air & space fighters & bombers because that role was given to the Imperial Navy(hence why technically even Guard Valkyries are Navy assets with Navy pilots on secondment) are now trotting around with gunships and superiority fighters galore, and of course they're the bestest gunships and fighters ever, much more bestest than those silly normal human planes which are poo so you should buy more Spehz Marinz
How old is this fluff you are talking about and any idea where I might find it? Because I know that as far as the start of the Horus Heresy series (when I started following 40k), Battle Fleet Gothic and even Dawn of War era stuff they all had marines with armoured tank, battleship, gunboat and assault craft.
Is there a Warhammer-equivalent of "let me google that for you"? How old it is is irrelevant, GW fluff remains valid until it's explicitly contradicted, and it's that recent contradiction that's being remarked on.
Battlefleet Gothic is a good start though, as it includes specific blurbs about how controversial it was for the Marines to equip even an Escort-class vessel with lance weapons, since they were not supposed to possess any dedicated anti-line-ship vessels at all. Space Marine ships are supposed to be short-ranged and primarily focused on planetary assault; bombardment cannons and launch facilities being their main armament with only limited ship-to-ship weaponry on most vessels. The background for the Thunderhawk notes that they get around the prohibition against dedicated fighters/gunships by virtue of it having a transport capacity and acting as an avenue of deployment for regular Marines even though it's obviously capable of more than that(a letter vs spirit issue, like Sisters of Battle and the Decree Passive). The background on the aftermath of the Heresy is quite explicit - the Imperium never again wanted to have a situation where one madman or one group of Space Marines would be capable of engaging in total war, so their role was limited to that of rapid strike and all other aspects of the Imperial Army were divided between the Imperial Guard, the PDFs, and the Imperial Navy - all fighter and gunship responsibilities, for both voidwar and aerial combat, were the domain of the Imperial Navy. Have a read of Double Eagle, one of the core plot points is that it features literally the only Imperial Guard aircraft regiment in the entire Imperium.
Marines retained some armoured warfare capacity, because they required the ability to engage enemy armour when operating as a mechanised force, but that's the key point - outside of operating in-concert with Rhino-mounted Marines, full-on mass tank v tank battles were specifically noted as rarities or one-off tactics to take on an enemy they otherwise couldn't have handled(like throwing every Land Raider from your chapter armoury at a Titan).
Now, GW are perfectly within their rights to change all that fluff, it's just not a very good change from my perspective since it diminishes both the factions onto who's turf the Marines now encroach and also the Marines themselves, who have gone from colossal badasses who can swoop in and end a war with a single hammerblow assault on the enemy HQ, or even crush a rebellion out of pure fear by simply showing up in orbit, to essentially being "All the other human factions in one, but gooderer". Snore.
And the 'separation of powers' explains why 40k marines do NOT possess a Main Battle Tank. Their only tank is a modified transport that is really the equivalent of a light tank (Predator). The Land Raiders main function is transport into the thickest fighting.
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Capamaru wrote: Does anyone else find the enclosed cockpit with the WW2 tank visor really bad idea?
The pilot would primarily be flying by instruments. True sight piloting is probably a last resort.
Would love to see a new Mechanicum aircraft and a Sisters aircraft (if Marines can retcon it why not the Sororitas) rather than another yet horrible looking Astartes flyer
If you have to (as always) give the Marines something - make it a Fire Raptor - at least that looks good!
I have not bought the Fire Raptor as heard bad things about the model going together from a store manager?
Capamaru wrote: Does anyone else find the enclosed cockpit with the WW2 tank visor really bad idea?
The pilot would primarily be flying by instruments. True sight piloting is probably a last resort.
But these are space marines we're talking about here. I'm surprised they opted for the red painted stripe on the squadron leaders rather than just leave the canopy off entirely to reveal the pilots proud screaming bald head.
I hope these rules stay optional and are’t incorporated into the main rules.
It might be fun once and a while, but just including flyers is already drifting away from the core of 40k (IMHO) and adding more focus on them is not a good thing.
Nevelon wrote: I hope these rules stay optional and are’t incorporated into the main rules.
It might be fun once and a while, but just including flyers is already drifting away from the core of 40k (IMHO) and adding more focus on them is not a good thing.
I think intercepting enemy flyers and having dogfights off table is cool as it adds interesting features to the game. Now flyers are not a waste of points sitting nearby in the early part of a battle. Flyers getting tactical roles is also interesting.
Warhams-77 wrote: I think intercepting enemy flyers and having dogfights off table is great as it adds interesting features to the game. Now flyers are not a waste of points sitting nearby in the early part of a battle.
True, but there is a balance between complexity and simplification. I’d rather not spend 10 minutes rolling and looking up tables, or playing rock/paper/scissors to find out of my flyer in reserves has taken a hull point off of your flyer. I’d rather focus on the battlefield in front of me. I’m OK with dogfights happening off screen out of the rules, from a narrative POV. Maybe my marine force deployed to the planet with a full wing of stomtalons, but the reason the one I included in my list showed up on turn 4 was the fact that they were mugged by dakkajets, and he just barely made it to the battlefield for some needed air support.
I don’t need (or want) another phase to tell me what’s happening. There are time I enjoy playing more complex wargames. But for 40k, I’d like to keep it on the simple side.
YMMV. It’s not like there is a wrong answer here. Just how much detail you want represented in the rules.
Capamaru wrote: Does anyone else find the enclosed cockpit with the WW2 tank visor really bad idea?
Maybe the plane interfaces with the marine's armour so the pilot actually has a better sense of his surrounding now that all of the sensors are plugged into his armour.
Could be interesting if auto senses worked so the pilot could feel the wind on his face as he flew or could locate his target by smell.
Capamaru wrote: Does anyone else find the enclosed cockpit with the WW2 tank visor really bad idea?
Maybe the plane interfaces with the marine's armour so the pilot actually has a better sense of his surrounding now that all of the sensors are plugged into his armour.
Could be interesting if auto senses worked so the pilot could feel the wind on his face as he flew or could locate his target by smell.
Makes me thing that somebody needs to make a Space Wolves flyer where the pilot is sticking his head out the window with his tongue hanging out.
Hm, mixed feelings on it now that they've laid it out. It sounds like if you don't want to take part in it, you can just disengage?But it sounds overly complicated and I'm not a fan of "roll off, consult tables". It'll probably get a bit easier as you keep playing, but we'll have to see. I often find that rarely do both players have flyers anyway (unless one is a FMC).
I mean, we already have Psychic Phase, which 8 armies literally cannot take part in unless they bring in allies, so I guess Phase breakdown is just the way they're going for these sorts of things.
Actually It will be interesting to see if FMC are even included in the new rules. If they don't have the new profiles like pursuit then I have know idea how they would participate.
That said I kind of would like it if FMC could be shot down from reserve etc by attack wings, since I hate the tactic of constantly summoning and flying off the board to safety.
Let's see how much this actually increases game time. If flyers destroy each other earlier in the game it could balance out. If it makes for tense battles it could be worth it anyway
I just hope this does something to address the massive disparity of FMCs vs flyers (FMCs basically auto-win against "anti-air" attack fighters...because of the same reasons MCs auto-win against walkers, stuff like "lets give them 3+ and 2+ armor saves to multiply their durability by 3x-6x by default", and they do not have the facing restrictions flyers have, so they can just hang out behind the flyer and the flyer can only ever get one attack before the FMC does so).
So if I want a Dakka jet guess I need to order now before it gets replaced by a more expensive kit with the extra bits?
I still don't think flyers work in a normal 28mm game. Something like apocalyse, where your playing across the floor of the local village hall maybe, but not on a 6'x4' table.
Warhams-77 wrote: I think intercepting enemy flyers and having dogfights off table is great as it adds interesting features to the game. Now flyers are not a waste of points sitting nearby in the early part of a battle.
True, but there is a balance between complexity and simplification. I’d rather not spend 10 minutes rolling and looking up tables, or playing rock/paper/scissors to find out of my flyer in reserves has taken a hull point off of your flyer. I’d rather focus on the battlefield in front of me. I’m OK with dogfights happening off screen out of the rules, from a narrative POV. Maybe my marine force deployed to the planet with a full wing of stomtalons, but the reason the one I included in my list showed up on turn 4 was the fact that they were mugged by dakkajets, and he just barely made it to the battlefield for some needed air support.
I don’t need (or want) another phase to tell me what’s happening. There are time I enjoy playing more complex wargames. But for 40k, I’d like to keep it on the simple side.
YMMV. It’s not like there is a wrong answer here. Just how much detail you want represented in the rules.
Frankly I'd rather have an off-table phase to represent fliers as part of 40K games than I would clutter up the table with "formations"(ffs GW) of multiple models that were already too big for the scale of the game when folk were just using one of them. Aircraft would cross the size of your average 40K tabletop in less than the blink of an eye, cramming them into 40K games bloats the game and forces GW to ruin their own fluff/aesthetic with stuff like the Chibihawk so they can produce semi-practical gaming models for all the factions.
Based on what I see, all this comes down to what Bombers and Attack Flyers can do to units on the ground -- if bombers can do significantly more to ground units than flyers do presently, then people will care.
Otherwise, all this stuff will be very cool and fluffy, but largely ignored competitively.
I've kind of wanted a Xiphon pattern interceptor for a while; maybe this nudge me into buying one Then, invariably, I will be disappointed by how one or more pieces of resin require tons of work to look good. Or fit. LOL
The slow and ponders Sun Shark. Welp we k now one way its going to be bad already its slow and ponderous for an aircraft. I get the feeling its implied to be slow and ponderous even for a bomber.
And its one of the weakest in the game and smallest amount of firepower. It needs to be buffed by an extraordinary amount to even be worth considering in a casual game.
That leaves us only one aircraft left to hope to be good and I honestly doubt it will be.
We don't have a dedicated Fighter now that Barricuda is gone. -_-
Gamgee wrote: The slow and ponders Sun Shark. Welp we k now one way its going to be bad already its slow and ponderous for an aircraft. I get the feeling its implied to be slow and ponderous even for a bomber.
And its one of the weakest in the game and smallest amount of firepower. It needs to be buffed by an extraordinary amount to even be worth considering in a casual game.
That leaves us only one aircraft left to hope to be good and I honestly doubt it will be.
We don't have a dedicated Fighter now that Barricuda is gone. -_-
I'm wondering if this will just add the new stats or make changes to the existing stats.
I like this Dogfight phase. Flyers in reserve interacting with the battle is a cool idea. It also might make some Fighter jets that suck on the board pretty decent when Dogfighting in reserve. Being able to take down transports while they are still in reserve is terrifying.
Talys wrote: I've kind of wanted a Xiphon pattern interceptor for a while; maybe this nudge me into buying one Then, invariably, I will be disappointed by how one or more pieces of resin require tons of work to look good. Or fit. LOL
Me too, I've a sad feeling forgeworld units will be left out of the fun and become unplayable though.
I'm hoping you can also engage FMC's while they are in reserve during the dogfight. Would be cool to follow a FMC off the board in order to dogfight it dead.
Talys wrote: I've kind of wanted a Xiphon pattern interceptor for a while; maybe this nudge me into buying one Then, invariably, I will be disappointed by how one or more pieces of resin require tons of work to look good. Or fit. LOL
Me too, I've a sad feeling forgeworld units will be left out of the fun and become unplayable though.
I'm willing to bet FW will faq their products. They want to keep selling 'em
rollawaythestone wrote: I'm hoping you can also engage FMC's while they are in reserve during the dogfight. Would be cool to follow a FMC off the board in order to dogfight it dead.
Only if there's suitable risk to yourself for doing so. Otherwise you've pretty much just gone and thrown Tyranids on the trash heap next to CSM in terms of viability.
Ugh. The rules description so far is sounding a lot like the old Death From The Skies book, which was absolute garbage. The flyer rules were literally "play a game of rock/paper/scissors to see who wins", and it even suggested rolling randomly to see what you pilot does because there were no actual decisions to make. If this book is just another "roll some dice to see which random table to roll on, which will tell you what other dice to roll, and eventually someone gets destroyed on a 5+" embarrassment we can only hope that, like the previous version, the community collectively says "no thanks" and hardly anyone even remembers it a week later.
Peregrine wrote: Ugh. The rules description so far is sounding a lot like the old Death From The Skies book, which was absolute garbage. The flyer rules were literally "play a game of rock/paper/scissors to see who wins", and it even suggested rolling randomly to see what you pilot does because there were no actual decisions to make. If this book is just another "roll some dice to see which random table to roll on, which will tell you what other dice to roll, and eventually someone gets destroyed on a 5+" embarrassment we can only hope that, like the previous version, the community collectively says "no thanks" and hardly anyone even remembers it a week later.
the_scotsman wrote: Yes, poor Tau, they just have no way of dealing with flyers.
you know
some sort of ultra-cheap, optional skyfire upgrade thing they could put on all their units.
That is totally irrelevant to the discussion at hand. I'm talking about a Tau bomber it attacks ground targets. I never said we didn't have good anti air, and even if that was the discussion why shouldn't all the races including Tau not have good flyers that are balanced and useful to take for taking down air? Why should we be penalized and everyone else get the benefits reaped on them? Is it just because you like seeing people be miserable? I can't think of any other reason. As it is both Tau flyers are the worst flyers in the entire pantheon of flyers. Or among them. The Dark Eldar ones are miserable too.
The only thing I'm hoping for is some sort of plastic IN fighter kit for Thunderbolt, Lightning, Avenger, or Vulture.
As for the rules, no thanks. I think the game is bloated enough as is without yet another phase for models that frankly don't really fit at this scale.
Because they can sell you an expensive new book. Haven't you noticed that GW's business model is built around selling you minor "updates" to recycled content at absurdly high prices?
Because they can sell you an expensive new book. Haven't you noticed that GW's business model is built around selling you minor "updates" to recycled content at absurdly high prices?
Sounds like they are learning from the video game industry how to really milk their customers.
Because they can sell you an expensive new book. Haven't you noticed that GW's business model is built around selling you minor "updates" to recycled content at absurdly high prices?
Sounds like they are learning from the video game industry how to really milk their customers.
Talys wrote: I've kind of wanted a Xiphon pattern interceptor for a while; maybe this nudge me into buying one Then, invariably, I will be disappointed by how one or more pieces of resin require tons of work to look good. Or fit. LOL
Me too, I've a sad feeling forgeworld units will be left out of the fun and become unplayable though.
I'm willing to bet FW will faq their products. They want to keep selling 'em
Tell that to IA12 Necrons. Freaking Pylon is still Skyfire/Interceptor after 7th has been out for how long?
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