CommanderRednaxela wrote:
Thanks, (of course I have questions)
1. By drill he means with one of these:
2. Is it better to do it at the pre buit, built but not painted or at the end.

(hey I'm now a Guardsman with a flashlight!! Does that rank system mean anything?)

CommanderRednaxela wrote:
Ok I think I only have three questions left (I hope)
1. I know what is twinlinked means (fire once and if you miss you can fire again), but how exactly do a I get it (is it an upgrade, a rule ect?)
2. Wyvern vs Hydra for the arty formation?

CommanderRednaxela wrote:

Asterios wrote:

CommanderRednaxela wrote:
Ok I think I only have three questions left (I hope)
3. What did you mean magnetize the tank?

think they meant magnetize so you can switch out weapon loads.

Sorry being the noob I am, I don't know how to do that.

Edit: Ok did the math, 1 ccs (regmintal advisors + arty formation) + 3 pysker + 3 priests + techpriest + 1 pcs (required for the IG blob) + 4 squads infantry + 2 eradicators + demolisher + basilisk + chimera + hydra + manticore + 4 squads of heavy weapons team with lascannons = 1655 points. Which size catogery would that fit into (is there a 1750k 1700 ect).

 kronk wrote:
When installing magnets, I use a pin vice. Check google

The Imperial Guard commanders can issue orders to their men. There is a list of them in the codex. In addition among the Psychic powers you can roll for, is onethat allows your entire unitto re-roll its misses called prescience. You should have no problem getting the powers you need with six rolls to try but, of course, there is always a chance you wont. However Prescience is the Primaris power and as such, any time you take ALL your powers on a GIVEN Psyker from Divination, he will automatically get Prescience also.

As for the Hydras: your force has no answer, other than twin linking, for Tyrant spam and other earial predators so I recommend the Hydra. The Artillery formation might even REQUIRE the Hydra. I cant remember. But you already are dropping blasts everywhere with this army. The Wyvern is world class as vehicles go. You could add to the mess nicely with a Wyvern. But this comes down to a meta question.

HAIL HYDRA!

If you clip the bit on the gun barrell of the hydras when you put them in the slot, they can easily be pulled out again. This simple conversion allows the vehicle to be a hydra or a Wyvern whenevr you want it to be!

So i guess just 10 Demolition Veterans maybe?

There are also sets of magnets that come with the perfect sized drill bit with them. This way you can very easily drill the hole, lay the magnet inside the hole. Very cool. It "seats" the magnet in there nicely. You will want to do this because the pull on those magnets can be so great that they kind of pull each other off the models themselves. A little less surface area being exposed helps limit this and it lasts longer. Just dont drill too far. =)

CommanderRednaxela wrote:

Would a squad of kaskrins work? (also in the Codex, I can't find them, do I just take the scions stats?)

CommanderRednaxela wrote:
Ok thanks, where would I find that? (the imperium has billions of soldiers, if one dies to overdrilling, ten more shall take his place)

Asterios wrote:

CommanderRednaxela wrote:
Ok thanks, where would I find that? (the imperium has billions of soldiers, if one dies to overdrilling, ten more shall take his place)

why did I just hear cha-ching coming from the direction of GW's HQ ?

UrsoerTheSquid wrote:
I feel that it's worth noting for the artillery formation it may be best to avoid the wyvern.  Not that they are bad it's quite the opposite actually, Wyverns already have twin linked and ignores covers so the formation bonuses are wasted on them. Just put down 4 basilisks and the manticore and really rain down the fire power. Also make sure to include volkov's cane for only failing orders on a double 6.  

Nope, not feree.

You have Veterans.

UrsoerTheSquid wrote:
I would spend the point for volkov's cane. It's an upgrade for a company commander that allows units withing a certain distance to only fail orders on a double 6. So you stick him beside your artillery.

 Jancoran wrote:
meltabombs for the win.

That is one of those calls you'll have to make

 Jancoran wrote:
I doubt the 8th Edition rules will be out before 2018. Get your army and begin the pillaging.

Asura Varuna wrote:
No sure if it's already been suggested, but the new Armoured Claw boxset for Genestealer Cult that inclues neophytes and a chimera actually seems like a pretty good deal if you're looking to create a mechanised force. £35 for Infantry + tank is about a £15 saving, and you might even be able to get some resale value out of the genestealer sprues. If you're looking to build the core elements of a guard army, the start collecting and that box will give you plenty of infantry and a variety of tanks.

CommanderRednaxela wrote:

Asura Varuna wrote:
No sure if it's already been suggested, but the new Armoured Claw boxset for Genestealer Cult that inclues neophytes and a chimera actually seems like a pretty good deal if you're looking to create a mechanised force. £35 for Infantry + tank is about a £15 saving, and you might even be able to get some resale value out of the genestealer sprues. If you're looking to build the core elements of a guard army, the start collecting and that box will give you plenty of infantry and a variety of tanks.

But do the Cadians have to look heretical, or can they look like normal people, also it's a chimera not a lrbt. Finally what's the differences between a power axe and a chain sword.

Asterios wrote:

CommanderRednaxela wrote:

Asura Varuna wrote:
No sure if it's already been suggested, but the new Armoured Claw boxset for Genestealer Cult that inclues neophytes and a chimera actually seems like a pretty good deal if you're looking to create a mechanised force. £35 for Infantry + tank is about a £15 saving, and you might even be able to get some resale value out of the genestealer sprues. If you're looking to build the core elements of a guard army, the start collecting and that box will give you plenty of infantry and a variety of tanks.

But do the Cadians have to look heretical, or can they look like normal people, also it's a chimera not a lrbt. Finally what's the differences between a power axe and a chain sword.

the set comes with optional Cadian heads too.

CommanderRednaxela wrote:

Asterios wrote:

CommanderRednaxela wrote:

Asura Varuna wrote:
No sure if it's already been suggested, but the new Armoured Claw boxset for Genestealer Cult that inclues neophytes and a chimera actually seems like a pretty good deal if you're looking to create a mechanised force. £35 for Infantry + tank is about a £15 saving, and you might even be able to get some resale value out of the genestealer sprues. If you're looking to build the core elements of a guard army, the start collecting and that box will give you plenty of infantry and a variety of tanks.

But do the Cadians have to look heretical, or can they look like normal people, also it's a chimera not a lrbt. Finally what's the differences between a power axe and a chain sword.

the set comes with optional Cadian heads too.

Ok, good. (Must say if I ever do get Tyranids, definintly going to add genestealers). I could get one of those, and perhaps two start collecting to get a lrbt and a squad each and then the rest will be separate.

CommanderRednaxela wrote:
Ok, thats cool. So it's like a two in one, suprised games workshop wouldn't advertise that.

 Jancoran wrote:
power axes!

 Jancoran wrote:
or just convert it.

CommanderRednaxela wrote:

 Jancoran wrote:
or just convert it.

Again my noobiness strikes back, convert it?

CommanderRednaxela wrote:
Is a boltgun the same thing as a bolter(I know what a bolter is, no idea what a boltgun is) also force axes, do they count as power weapons?

Martel732 wrote:
Force axes are power axes that can be charged up with the "force" psychic power to be instant death weapons.

Boltgun = Bolter.

Personally, I'd dump the Russ hulls from the above list to get more dudes and more psykers and more wyverns. However, my meta has so much D/haywire it's crazy.

Martel732 wrote:
What has been done to the Russ is one of the great crimes of 40K. It's objectively worse than anything in the BA codex, except landraiders, and that's because landraiders give up EVEN MORE points to D weapons.

I keep telling MoO this, but he won't listen. It's stupid to have to use the IG without their iconic units, but at the same time, you don't see me bringing a bunch of BA assault marines... because they suck.

4 X LV 2 divination psykers is so good in an IG list. The buffs stack up with the orders so well. You can combined the ignore cover buff with the take it down order for example. The buff saves you from giving the ignore cover order. And the 4++ is game changing for the IG.

Martel732 wrote:
The lists that fight me have the four psykers. I don't know exactly how he's building them. There's air cav in the mix too.

Martel732 wrote:
The heresy is the D weapon and haywire rule. Although melta has always spelled doom for LRs.

Martel732 wrote:
The heresy is the D weapon and haywire rule. Although melta has always spelled doom for LRs.

 FatBoyNoSlim wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
The lists that fight me have the four psykers. I don't know exactly how he's building them. There's air cav in the mix too.

He might taking a formation, but in a basic CAD you can only get 3 Primaris Pykers .


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Martel732 wrote:
The heresy is the D weapon and haywire rule. Although melta has always spelled doom for LRs.

At least with melta drop we can try and bubble wrap, with D weapons there is no escape and haywire there is no escape.

 FatBoyNoSlim wrote:
Holy Emperor, I disagree with most of the tactical advice being given here! Apologies Jancoran for being blunt, but do you actually play IG competitively or otherwise?


Putting all those upgrades, advisers etc into 1 blob is a really bad idea. I could get 3 blobs of 40 guys with enough upgrades for the same price.

1) Numerical Superiority -

2) Shooting wins games -

3) Spending points wisely - as others have said, the IG are in a tough place at the moment. Despite are men being cheap, they should really be even cheaper when compared to other armies. Because of this it is really important not to waste points. For example, if you are taking a 40 man Infantry Blob, you should only take special weapons and heavy weapons as upgrades. Giving a power Axe to every Sgt is really expensive and in most of your games they wont even get a chance to use them. Save those points and instead get yourself a Grenade Launcher and Autocannon in every squad. Those weapons are going to be used every turn, every game you play and thus are a much better investment.
Some people may say "if you have 5 points left over, just a get some random Melta Bombs" Sorry but that is just silly. Those melta bombs are never gonna get used. However, 5 bolters for your Sgts/officers are going to shoot every turn and as a bonus look cool on your models.

CommanderRednaxela wrote:
A double CAD?

Do I play competitively? Yes. Am I ranked in the ITC? Yes. Where am I ranked? Top 3%. My club? Well it's in my icon: The Deffrollaz. Ranked in the top 3% So that is my qualification for giving advice. I also obtained that ranking competing with Militarum Tempestus, Orks, Tau Empire and yes even Adepta Sororitas. So not only am I top 3%, but I also did it using lower "tiered" armies. Good enough?

I agree with your Numerical supreriority advice.

I agree that shooting wins games, but with a caveat: it sets you up to finish games. Infantry win the games themselves.

You're dead wrong about hte power axes being used. That is a user issue, not an army issue.

Commissars are worse than priests. Having said that, its the same basic idea being applied here so I wont argue too much on that. Its a minor issue.

Wyverns: everyone said they were good already. Agreed.

 FatBoyNoSlim wrote:


Once again I must apologise for being blunt, but no actually not good enough, as you don’t seem to play IG competitively or otherwise. I am fully ready to accept that you are great player with tonnes of experience with many other armies, but not with IG (Also side note, Tau Empire are not a lower tiered army). If we are reading off qualifications then I think the fact that I have been playing/collecting Imperial Guard, as my only army, for the last 13 years across every rule set since second edition should be sufficient proof of my ability to comment on how to build an IG army. Having said that, I am more than willing to admit that you will be better qualified then myself to give advice about other armies (e.g. Orks, Stormies and Sisters) as I have never collected those armies.

Look, I don’t want to argue with you over who has the biggest balls Lets just agree that we have both set out our respective stalls and get back to giving advice to the OP.

I agree with your Numerical supreriority advice.

Thank you

I agree that shooting wins games, but with a caveat: it sets you up to finish games. Infantry win the games themselves.

I agree with that.

You're dead wrong about hte power axes being used. That is a user issue, not an army issue.

I think power axes are great. I think putting so many on squad sgts is a massive waste of points. I mean you already have 3 of them with all the Primaris Psykers your using, you don’t need 4-5 more! I tend to run 1 power axe per blob as this means if I do get tied up in close combat by a small, but tough unit, I can generally fight my way out quickly. If something like a wolf star is coming at me, it doesn’t matter how many power axes I have they are still gonna rip my men to pieces.

Commissars are worse than priests. Having said that, its the same basic idea being applied here so I wont argue too much on that. Its a minor issue.

Fair enough but just consider this, Priests look better on paper, but actually the buffs you get from them are worse as they buff you in the wrong way, close combat. Priests give you fearless, which is actually worse than Summary Execution because it stops you from going to ground. I good tactic is to use a nice wall conscripts (to give the unit a 5+ cover save) and then go to ground behind them to get a 4+. Then next turn you can order you guys to get back up (Get Back in the Fight). Also whilst they also let you reroll hits in the first round of combat and their hymns are good (but Ld7 is bad) they are making you better at close combat, which we have already established is worse than shooting. Also you don’t really need re rolls to hit from zealot as you can just get them from Prescience and re roll shooting and close combat

Wyverns: everyone said they were good already. Agreed.

Yep fair point.

Just one point I want to add, in your super blobs, you are spending so many points on close combat upgrades and advisors. I mean do you really think you need 3 priests and 3 Primaris Psykers? Surely 1 of each per blob would do.

 drunken0elf wrote:
I like the idea of having tons of spykers and priest with the blobs. Makes them potentially very durable like you've mentionned Jancoran and potentially surprinsingly killy in cqb. Now the only thing I'm wondering is, if you're taking an aegis defense lin with those blobs. (haven't read the whole discussion so if you already mentionned it my bad)

Having big blobs makes it hard to shove them all in cover without the aegis.

It's something I should definatly try for fun eventually. Having cqb blobs seems like fun.

As for the Psykers, there's a reason for that and a reason for the Priests.

The Priests make stuborn irrelvant. They are zealots. This is objectively better.

The Priests allow me to make my entire unit re-roll their saves. that is huge because: I seek to get Forewarning as a Psyker power and if I have it, I am going to shove that blob down the throat of almost any enemy, gladly. Which brings us to the Psykers. You need all three to ensure you get the Psyker powers you need.

The level 2 psykers also make the blob very tough to gank with psyker shenanigans which is good because enough flickering fire from the skies will make any blob disappear unless they get forewarning.

So my solution creates a blob that will re-roll to hit, re-roll to wound, re-rolling 4+ invulnerable saves and will have 3 Force staves for hitting really tough stuff, and 4 Power axes to greet you when you THINK this blob shouldn't be coming forward. Add Meltabombs for WraithKnight killing. Until the enemy DOES come at me or I get to them, my lascannons will be raking the enemy armor or big boys or whatever by stringing out part of the unit to keep the Lascannons from moving.

This solution is devastatingly effective against all kinds of units that think they are better. There are a select few units which the blob cannot take which is what the rest of the army is there to help with but it takes kind of a perfect storm to do it. I have lost the blob in its entirety a grand total of three times, ever. So i will repeat what I said: Its very good.

CommanderRednaxela wrote:
https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/f0/ea/c4/f0eac49e3b85c4dad914c259ab0e916e.jpg " border="0" />

Ok before you start trying to interpret what I like and dislike, and then it turns in Christianity where we're all fighting over who knows what God(-Emperor) whats(ironically enough patr of the reason why I love 40k, and the Sisters), I will explain(The picture above is also part of my explanation after all a picture is 1000 words).

Like(This is not tactical, just opinion):
- Loads of conscripits/shock troops
- Commissars (again not for tactical reaons, but because I find them intersting)
- TANKS!! By the Emperor I love tanks.
- Artillery, especially basilisks.
- BAAAAANNNNEEEE BLAAAADDDDEEESSSS!!!!!! I know they are useless, doesn't mean a Stormhammers, or Yarrick's (one of favorite characters for the record) Fortress of Arrogance aren't the most awesome thing ever
- Kasrkins. Or rather Kasrkins being vets, because of a later point
- Valkryies and Vendettas, because they are beautiful
- Priests. Because fluff.

Dislike (may I stress this is not tactical?)
- Titans. They're nice, but not Baneblades
- Scions or anything like that. There is just not enough of them
- Pyskers. Because fluff.
- SPACE MARINES!!! Except the wolves
- Rough riders. Why, who knows.


How about this, combine Russian numbers with German mechanized might. There.

 FatBoyNoSlim wrote:

CommanderRednaxela wrote:
https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/f0/ea/c4/f0eac49e3b85c4dad914c259ab0e916e.jpg " border="0" />

Ok before you start trying to interpret what I like and dislike, and then it turns in Christianity where we're all fighting over who knows what God(-Emperor) whats(ironically enough patr of the reason why I love 40k, and the Sisters), I will explain(The picture above is also part of my explanation after all a picture is 1000 words).

Like(This is not tactical, just opinion):
- Loads of conscripits/shock troops
- Commissars (again not for tactical reaons, but because I find them intersting)
- TANKS!! By the Emperor I love tanks.
- Artillery, especially basilisks.
- BAAAAANNNNEEEE BLAAAADDDDEEESSSS!!!!!! I know they are useless, doesn't mean a Stormhammers, or Yarrick's (one of favorite characters for the record) Fortress of Arrogance aren't the most awesome thing ever
- Kasrkins. Or rather Kasrkins being vets, because of a later point
- Valkryies and Vendettas, because they are beautiful
- Priests. Because fluff.

Dislike (may I stress this is not tactical?)
- Titans. They're nice, but not Baneblades
- Scions or anything like that. There is just not enough of them
- Pyskers. Because fluff.
- SPACE MARINES!!! Except the wolves
- Rough riders. Why, who knows.


How about this, combine Russian numbers with German mechanized might. There.

Ok then, try this for a list then (@Jancoran would appreciae your thoughts):

HQ
Tank Commander Pask: Leman Russ Punisher with Hull Heavy Bolter, Heavy Bolter Sponsons and Dozer Blade.
Leman Russ Exterminator with Hull Heavy Bolter, Heavy Bolter Sponsons and Dozer Blade.

Commissar: Bolter.
Commissar: Bolter.
Priest: Autogun.
Primaris Psyker: Force Axe and Level 2.
Primaris Psyker: Force Axe and Level 2.

Troops

Platoon 1:
PCS: No upgrades.
Squad 1: Grenade Launcher and Autocannon. Sgt with Bolter.
Squad 2: Grenade Launcher and Autocannon. Sgt with Bolter.
Squad 3: Grenade Launcher and Autocannon. Sgt with Bolter.
Conscripts: 30x Conscripts.

PCS: No upgrades.
Squad 1: Grenade Launcher and Autocannon.
Squad 2: Grenade Launcher and Autocannon.
Squad 3: Grenade Launcher and Autocannon.

Veterans: 3x Melta Gun.Grenadiers.
Chimera: Multilaser and Hull Heavy Flamer.

Veterans: 3x Melta Gun. Grenadiers.
Chimera: Multilaser and Hull Heavy Flamer.

Fast Attack:
Vedetta: 3x Twinlinked Lascannons.

Heavy Support
Basilisk.
Wyvern.

Loads of Conscripts/shock troops, Check.
Tanks, Check.
Arty (including Bassies), Check
Commissars, Check
Priests, Check
Vendetta, Check
Kasrkin (Gren Veterans), Check.

Only thing missing is the BAAAAAANNNEEEBLADE, which is hard to fit in to be honest with all the other stuff.

CommanderRednaxela wrote:
So, its depends on metas. Well I got no idea what the people here are going to be like (again I played a tabletop similar, can't remember the name, but it was a different place).

You can see how absurd and circular this can get.

What you have to do as the General is TIME what you do and recognize what you're weak against so you can plan accordingly. THAT is the skill of 40K. Not trying to get a list that you think will be perfect. Because for every T5 modle with 27 wounds each...there's a Manticore that can level you. For every 3+ invul save shield your Space Wolves have, there's a guy rocking the new Chaos Space Marine Psyker powers to knock your Invule saves out. And for every guy with Feel No Pain, theres a guy with a ton of high STR stuff that ignores it.

The point here is that you will learn how to defend yourself. But you won't learn it if you cower from the grimdarkness and fear the shadows. You at some point have to commit and become good at what you like to do.

But you learn nothing until you commit.

So commit.

Martel732 wrote:
No one can trivially delete swathes of infantry with a 4++ save. You need the critical mass of psykers, though, or it doesn't work at all. Because you need the powers you need.

Martel732 wrote:
No one can trivially delete swathes of infantry with a 4++ save. You need the critical mass of psykers, though, or it doesn't work at all. Because you need the powers you need.

Martel732 wrote:

Tanks are universally terrible unless your meta is so weak that your list composition doesn't matter. Expensive IG tanks are easily threatened by even the lowly BA, so I have a hard time imagining any competent meta where IG tanks are good. Even at BS4, they are so expensive their firepower is meh. Compare a BS 4 IG tank to points equivalents of scatterbikes or broadsides. It's not even close.

Martel732 wrote:

There are lots of reasons to never use IG heavy tanks. It's not just str D. It's assault, haywire, and melta as well. Any token penetrating hit turns your tank off for a turn. Unfortunately for many IG players, they have a ton of these tanks from 5th ed.

 Jancoran wrote:

But you learn nothing until you commit.

So commit.

ExFideFortis wrote:
The Valkyrie box only comes with the parts for the Valkyrie (It does come with one lascannon which can be mounted by the cockpit and used for a Vendetta conversion). If you want the official conversion kit, your only option is Forge World. However you can save yourself a ton of money and order 4 IG HWT Lascannon bits off of Ebay, glue them together and mount them under the wings to accomplish the same thing. You seriously cannot tell the difference.