Hey guys. I've started figuring out what I want to start buying, gluing and painting for Nids, Nash was nice enough to help me test a list concept I had.
Keep in mind Nash is not a marine player, and borrowed my room mates dark angels models and whipped up a list he wanted to play. it was certainly decent. And definitely helped me better understand the units I fielded, but it lacked the one unit in the marine codex that all nid players fear... On to the lists...
tyranids - Operation: Ground and Pound
Hive tyrant with scything talons, heavy venom cannon, psychic scream and warp scream
3x tyrant guard with scything talons and rending claws
3x hive guard
3x hive guard
10x termagants
10x termagants
tervigon with catalyst and adrenal glands
tervigon with catalyst and adrenal glands
carnifex with scything talons, heavy venom cannon and adrenal glands
carnifex with scything talons, heavy venom cannon and adrenal glands
carnifex with scything talons, heavy venom cannon and adrenal glands
Space Marines - Choo-choo
pedro
5x sternguard with 2x meltas and a power fist in a razorback with lasplas
5x sternguard with 2x meltas and a power fist in a razorback with lasplas
5x sternguard with 2x meltas and a power fist in a razorback with lasplas
5x tactical marines with combi-flamer and power fist in a razorback with lasplas
5x tactical marines with combi-flamer and power fist in a razorback with lasplas
MMHF speeder
MMHF speeder
MMHF speeder
whirlwind
whirlwind
whirlwind
Ok, My first testing mission is always a 5 objective seize ground pitched battle. I got to place the first objective, and they managed to all be very close to the center line, all pretty much within 12" of each other, which was good for me. I won the roll and chose to play.
Sorry there were no pictures, but I used so many proxies that your heads would explode.
I deployed my hive tyrant and tyrant guard together in the center of the table. 11.5" forward. To either side of the hive tyrant, about 10" apart, were my two tervigons. Behind each of them was a carnifex. My third carnifex was going to be not getting cover saves, so i deployed one of my two hive guard units in base to base and placed the third fex behind that wall. I strung my 20 gaunts in a long line in front of the hive guard units and the tyrant. Since the majority of the models in the tyrant/guard unit are obscured, the whole kit and kaboodle got cover. The fexes were 50% obscured by the tervigons, the hive guard were behind the gaunt screen, and the gaunts got catalyst from the tervigons. Everything except the tervigons is no rocking 4+ cover or feel no pain. In hind sight, I should have definitely bought regenerate for the tervigons using this set up. But since I have no idea how much it costs, I don't know if it will work in the list.
Nash deployed in a double choo-choo,
tac squad razor sideways up front, sternguard razor frontwys behind it for 3+ cover, and whirlwind behind that for 4+ cover (or 3+ if you are facing it flush). He had two of those trains in the center of the table, and in the corner he had a half choo-choo with a sideways sternguard razorback and a front whirlwind.
Ok, top of one, i move up 6" with the whole army, trying to cut over with the hive guard. I think 2 models in the far hive guard unit were out. I only managed to shake and weapon destroy the lead razorback, my venom cannons took a dump on turn 1. I really should have ran with my hive tyrant, but after watching all three of my fex
VCs scatter or get beat by cover saves, I got distracted and took a bad shot. The termagants moved up almost a full 6" but headed for some naturally occurring cover. I was really hot with the tervigons and i got a 14 spawn and an 11 spawn and no doubles. Catalyst went on the screening gaunts like I mentioned, and I tried to warp scream the unshaken troop razorback but rolled an 11. Not a great turn.
Nash pretty much doesn't move. He pops smoke on the shaken razorback and shoots the rest of the non whirlwinds at my leftmost tervigon, causing 3 wounds. He then put a fourth wound on it with whirlwind shots, that managed to kill 12 of 14 of the newly spawned gaunts as well.
Top of two, I clearly need to learn to play nids here, as I am seeing that my gaunt farm has really tripped up my carnifexes, I can't really get them out from behind the mass of gaunts, and so I start setting them up to break out next turn, I run out of gaunts on both tervigons, but get a 12 and a 9. Really good day for making babies... The hive guard break cover and move as close as they can to the razor spam, and open up some side shots (choo-choo is kinda silly that way, useful for about one turn) the tyrant and guard break cover as well, and get a good run roll. I catalyst them and the wounded tervigon (who would be getting 4 regenerate rolls right about now, had I purchased them) For shooting I manage to weapon destroy a couple of razors and shake a whirlwind. Still not really nailing it on the shooting. I'm getting a lot of pens, but i couldn't roll higher than a 4 until next turn.
Bottom, Nash moves up with two razors to take on the tyrant. He debarks with a sternguard unit with pedro, and a 5 man
tac squad, inside a diamond formation (in other words, I won't be able to charge any of the units unless I wreck one of the razors). He reorients his trains and pops smoke on the shaken stuff. he puts one more wound on the teetering tervigon, targets a spot behind a building where two termagant units can be covered with the whirlwinds but only manages to kill 6. His bolter drill was disastrous. T6 3+ save,
FNP was boss. I lost a single wound, It looked like he started working on the tyrants unit too late. A speeder arrived near my almost dead tervigon and tried to wound him while killing two more gaunts.
Top of three was a pretty big turn for me. My hive guard moved up and ensured they had good shots on the razorback wall pedro was hiding behind. The tervigon on the left set up to shoot/charge the speeder, and the carnifex had probably one more round of shooting in them before they were going to be charging stuff. My other tervigon and all of the gaunts were just getting into good spots where they could score and get cover saves, but Nash's damn whirlwinds weren't letting that happen. At this point, I would be getting 5 rolls to regen on my tervies on the left. I really want to know how much it costs. I catalysted my hive tyrant again and my wounded tervigon, hoping to keep him up for one more turn. The hive guard managed to explode the razorback in front of pedro, and the carnifexes managed to destroy the other razor (obviously only a wrecked result). I got a flush charge on pedro and his sternguard after a 4 difficult terrain roll, but I couldn't contact the nearby
tac squad for the dual charge. I have to hand it to pedro, he hung in there for quite well. The wounded tervie had to charge the speeder to finish it off, but he got a couple hits and exploded it.
Bottom of three Nash got another speeder, and mishapped it back into reserve trying to set up another flamer shot. He moved another sternguard squad up and declared a charge on my hive guard, while he still had access to pedro's bubble. The rest of the vehicles just rotated and set up their shots. He took the last wound off of the tervigon, and I thought I had cleared the area of gants, but a 5 man unit was just within 6". It evaporated... He softened up the hive guard unit by doing two wounds, and then managed to do two more in
CC. I managed to do one back, but made my save. the whirlwinds went after a 4 man gant unit in cover in my backfield and killed 2, they were out o synapse and hoofed it off the field, I think he also got two more in another squad.
Top of four, With the carnifexes all emerging from the gant screen unscathed, it was starting to look pretty good for me, I ran them right to table center, cutting off all objectives from Nash's razors. Pedro finished off my tyrant guard, and went down to his last wound, but stubbornly held... a little too stubborn Kantor! One fex was able to charge the remaining sternguard and resue my hive guard model from certain death. I catalysed my most vulnerable gant unit, and I have been forgetting to mention that I have been warp screaming pedro for the last two rounds. It was a really short shooting phase with me only immobilizing the empty razor in table center, but I was all about
CC at this point.
Bottom four. Nash is really trying to make those gants go away, but I had so damn many of them, and i Had an unwounded tervigon parked right in the middle of them, and they weren't gonna be running. he killed 4 out of my 12 man squad that was stretched between two objectives. He also wiped out the weakened hive guard unit. He had a single speeder show up and flame my
FNP gants, and killed 2. I popped pedro and consolidated towards the last sternguard razorback with my hive tyrant.
Top of five, I need to kill the speeder! and i need to open up the last sternguard razorback. And I need to keep those whirlwinds as quiet as possible. I catalyst my most vulnerable gant unit again, and don't have any reasonable targets for tyrant powers. One fex charges the speeder, one charges a
tac squad that was still floating around on the table, the tyrant gets the charge i need on that sternguard razor, and my hive guard stuns a whirlwind. The tyrant explodes the razorback, and the fex all but destroys the speeder, but the speeder is still blocking one objective.
Bottom of 5. The whirlwinds take one of my three tiny remaining gant units down to 4, it is stretched paper thin between two objectives, I think I'm still within 3" of both, but I can't eyeball it. The sternguards who fell out of their razor put a wound on the hive tyrant by shooting/charging it, while taking 3 casualties of their own. his third speeder comes in and mishap/kills itself.
The game continues....
top of 6, the last razorback dies, the
tac squad inside is charged by a fex, the tyrant finishes off the sternguard squad, and the fex smashes the blocking speeder. It doesn't really matter what the two living whirlwinds can do to my gants now. He has no scoring units, and my tervigon isn't going anywhere. We call it here...
Thoughts on my list...
Well, all of the units I chose were very good. The hive guard are exactly what you think they are. ACcurate consistent harassment fire, shaking, stunning, weapon destroying, and ultimately wrecking tons of transports. They needed cover at first, but at a certain point, it gets safer for them to leave the gant screen behind and venture further across the table, chasing people as they run away. their WS4 was pleasantly surprising. That, T6, and a 4+ save means they don't really go away in
CC. The tervigons are the real deal. Without going too far down the road of hyperbole, it is really a powerful scoring mechanic. The 20 gant 2 tervie set up is ample for 1750. It gives me my cover screen for the army, backfield deep striker kill, and its really distracting for an opponent to see you making babies. not overpowering by any means, but what a solid troops choice. The tyrant and guard seem pricey and slow, but they won me that game. I deliberated on whether to give them all lash whips or give them all scytals for a while, finally determining that every weapon I fear strikes at initiative 1 anyway. Almost all other weapons that strike at initiative (especially one higher than guard/tyrant) will allow me a 3+ save and
FNP. It turned out i LOVED the re-roll 1s ability. It really is a big deal. When I do have to face down that scary scary THSS unit, I need a full tyrant and guard unit just to survive them. Even then I won't live through a charge by them, but a termagant screen can buy me the time to get a warp scream and then charge them. The carnifexes were my choice for anti-land raider. They were solid performers here. I like them much better than I thought I would. that strength 10 on the charge really made me feel comfortable, and I was able to keep those whirlwinds shut down pretty well with them. However, three was too much. I would have KILLED for something arriving on turn 2 to disrupt nash's shooting. Swapping one fex for a trygon sounds like exactly what this list needs. Had a trygon showed up on turn 2 or 3, rght in the middle of nash's lines, he would have been forced to divert everything he had at taking it out, or his whirlwinds would be gone. this would have taken pressure on both my hive guard unit I lost and even my tervigon. Lastly, if regenerate is reasonably priced on tervigons, I am definitely taking it.
Nash's list wasn't really tuned, and I know he isn't a marine player, and he didnt have THSS. All that being said, he maneuvered well, and didn't make a completely soft list. I totally misplayed my fexes and lost out on a turn of
CC with them as a consequence (switching to two fexes one trygon will help a lot with that). Target priority is difficult when facing an entirely new army list. We discussed if he should have ignored the tervigon and softened the hive tyrant as soon as possible, I think he should have, and it would have helped him. But the loose fexes probably were the coffin nail. That particularly list didn't have enough firepower to cripple me, and it lacked serious counter-assault.
Anyway, its pretty safe to say you are going to need about 80 painted termagants to run a list like this. I spawned 46, and started with 20. If one more tervie hadn't rolled doubles I could have gotten another 8-12. If both had been able to put out three batches, then i'd just cap myself at 60.
So, bullet points....
buy and build lots of gants
figure out how you are going to convert your tervigons
carnifexes are better than they look.
Take at least one scary deep striker
hive tyrant with catalyst and warp scream is your best bet at winning
CCs against hard core units.
hive guard are about as good as they seem like they are going to be, not incredible, but solidly good.
Next step, is to try a totally aggro deathleaper/zoanthrope/warrior/mawloc reserve list. it looks really fun and could be pretty overwhelming, if a bit dice dependent.
Thanks for reading.
