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Thinking of developing an "open" fantasy skirmish system. What would you like to see?  [RSS] Share on facebook Share on Twitter Submit to Reddit
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Made in us
Wicked Warp Spider





Chicago

Prior to my work on Inquisimunda, I had thought a lot about developing a system that mixes elements of both tabletop gaming and role-playing games. I'm sure there are a lot of gamers who think "well, there's always Mordheim." and I do agree. However, I've found Mordheim to be more than a little restrictive with model/warband types and constrained by focusing on the GW Warhammer world.

My idea is to develop a system whereby players can take miniatures from ANY manufacturer and build small-sized forces from the ground up. The system would be primarily focused on 28/30mm models, but could easily be adapted to larger (40mm, 54mm) or smaller (15mm) scales. For example, I have a few old Rackham Ophidians and some Reaper human figs and I'd like to make a force with them. The system would then be:

-First, choose Race/Species; giving basic cost and stats
-Next, choose background; giving access to initial skills, weapons, and classes
-Choose Class
-Choose weapons, armor, & equipment
-Costing complete, unless choosing an initial upgrade such as veteran, leader, etc.

Do this for each and every model in your group. All players then choose an initial unit cost cap (think '1000pt game') and play their game(s). Additionally, there would be a campaign system so players could link games, build skills, increase stats, etc. Each class would have it's own skill "tree", with the option of limited Class-switching at certain experience levels.

This is the basic framework I'd like to provide players with but I'm sure I've left many good ideas out. My question is - what do you think? If you're interested, what are some things you'd like to see incorporated into a ruleset such as this?
   
Made in us
Rogue Daemonhunter fueled by Chaos






Toledo, OH

I've thought a lot about doing a game like this, and I've got a million ideas for one.

What I have in mind is a much more open framework system: where you essentially can build whatever you want from a pool of skills, abilities, proficiencies, weapons, etc.

By far the biggest thing for me would be an alternative to I-Go You-go.
   
Made in us
Wicked Warp Spider





Chicago

Polonius wrote:
By far the biggest thing for me would be an alternative to I-Go You-go.


I've not thought much about the rules mechanics but I will agree, this is very tempting. Infinity has an interesting mechanic for this (though I dislike the complexity of it). The problem would be developing a system that is both fair to all players and balanced, but also simple to remember.

Noted.
   
Made in us
Rogue Daemonhunter fueled by Chaos






Toledo, OH

I've always liked the idea of elements. Assuming we're talking about RPG level and up skrimish, most forces will have maybe up to 8 low level heros, or a few higher ones, or a couple heros and some troopers, or a mess of troopers.

On way to do it is to make each hero a seperate element, along with elite toopers. Put basic troopers in squads, with each squad being an element.

For every element in your force, put red/black card in a stack, while your opponent does the same with the opposite color. Flip cards, whoever's color comes up activiates.
   
Made in us
Foul Dwimmerlaik






Minneapolis, MN

Dump U-GO-I-GO. Institute interleaved turn structure. Far better ways to implement fundamental game mechanics than U-GO-I-GO. It's 2011, not 1987.

Seriously outdated and boring. I like to be involved during the game, not go to lunch while they take their turn.

   
Made in us
[MOD]
Madrak Ironhide







I asked you this on Facebook: Have you seen hordes of the things?

DR:70+S+G-MB-I+Pwmhd05#+D++A+++/aWD100R++T(S)DM+++
Get your own Dakka Code!

"...he could never understand the sense of a contest in which the two adversaries agreed upon the rules." Gabriel Garcia Marquez, One Hundred Years of Solitude 
   
Made in us
Wicked Warp Spider





Chicago

malfred wrote:I asked you this on Facebook: Have you seen hordes of the things?


I just read the synopsis on BoardGameGeek. Interesting premise. Know anyone who has a copy I could flip through?
   
Made in us
[MOD]
Madrak Ironhide







Their rules are open source now:

http://www.wrg.me.uk/HISTORY/HOTT2.pdf

DR:70+S+G-MB-I+Pwmhd05#+D++A+++/aWD100R++T(S)DM+++
Get your own Dakka Code!

"...he could never understand the sense of a contest in which the two adversaries agreed upon the rules." Gabriel Garcia Marquez, One Hundred Years of Solitude 
   
Made in au
Regular Dakkanaut




I was thinking about developing an open modern skirmish game, but I decided I'm too inexperienced, but here is an idea I had.

P1 Move, P2 Shoot, P1 Shoot, P1 Combat, P2 Move, P1 Shoot, P2 Shoot, P2 Combat.

purplefood wrote:It's an army of a hellish dystopian state where they are forced to fight some of the most terrifying creatures mankind has ever seen, in the name of a god-emperor that might not even be alive, under commanders that do not care whether they live or die... what do you think? But hey laser guns!
 
   
Made in us
Krazed Killa Kan






Columbus, Oh

What about Song of Blades and Heroes?

http://songofblades.blogspot.com/

http://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/30804/song-of-blades-and-heroes

2+2=5 for sufficiently large values of 2.

Order of St Ursula (Sisters of Battle): W-2, L-1, T-1
Get of Freki (Space Wolves): W-3, L-1, T-1
Hive Fleet Portentosa (Nids/Stealers): W-6, L-4, T-0
Omega Marines (vanilla Space Marine): W-1, L-6, T-2
Waagh Magshak (Orks): W-4, L-0, T-1
A.V.P.D.W.: W-0, L-2, T-0

www.40korigins.com
bringing 40k Events to Origins Game Fair in Columbus, Oh. Ask me for more info! 
   
Made in us
Sword-Bearing Inquisitorial Crusader






Columbus, Ohio

With smaller army sizes and a decent reaction system, the I-Go U-Go system works quite well. Don't be tempted to dump it out of hand because some people imagine such an act to be "progressive."

Jagdmacht, my Imperial Guard Project Log 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut





I like the initiative system for MERCS, its pretty dynamic.

I think the number one thing I would look for is balance in diversity. I don't want every race to have an equivalent war engine or big monster, but still want them to be balanced.

Also each type race / class etc should feel different from others when you play it.
   
Made in us
Grisly Ghost Ark Driver






First, keep it true skirmish, where each figure acts individually. Despite the small scale of 40k, it is not true skirmish as you still have to keep unit cohesion.

Make it truly universal, not "company store" like any GW product. When I started gaming, rule sets were open and you the consumer picked what figures you used, not the manufacturer. That's obviously better for the gamer.

Your idea about costing out things is a good one. That could also help with a possible RPG tie-in, or just a limited growth system like Mordheim or Necromunda. People usually play games where they have emotional investment, and campaign systems are good for that.

A few quick-start samples of "pre-costed" figures would help new players.

Try to keep magic sane, no "Win Game Instantly" spells. Something I was kicking around was trying to balance magic by comparing it to ordinary equivalents. For example, say a Magic Missle spell does on average the same damage as 10 Longbowmen, then the cost of adding the spell to the mage has to be the same as the 10 Longbowmen plus a little extra for flexibility (it is easier to get LOS for 1 figure than ten). Similarly, if you have a morale spell, it would cost the same as adding that much leadership to a leader figure, plus a increase for range and AoE if the spell works like that. The real problem is for weird spells like Blinding, Paralyze, or Mind Control which don't have simple game equivalents. You'll have to start with guesstimates and then refine them in playtesting.

BTW, have you ever played any RPG that uses a point system to create characters? Some of the mechanisms used in character creation for GURPS or Champions could be used for costing a figure, although not at the same level of detail. Great Rail Wars (a weird west minis game)let you make custom heroes to lead your rank and file, and let you take 1 disadvantage to get more points for character creation (IIRC, you could take any number of advantages, but too many, and the character would have no Shoot score etcetera).

Anyway, good luck with this project. Looking forward to seeing what you can come up.

About "I go, U go". In a "large" game one should use interleaved movement and combat phases, but in a skirmish scale "I go, U go" is not as crippling. That being said, you could use an Initiative system with figures moving from highest Init. to lowest, or with alternate turns (one player activates one figure, then second player activates one, and so on). The card deck initiative order idea isn't a bad one, but some times a bad run of cards can kill one side, so I'd favor the alternating figures.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/08/22 17:44:19


Kings of War: Abyssal Dwarves, Dwarves, Elves, Undead, Northern Alliance [WiP], Nightstalkers [WiP]
Dropzone Commander: PHR
Kill Team: Deathwatch AdMech Necron

 
   
Made in us
Brigadier General






Chicago

My gaming club uses Song of Blades and Heroes for Fantasy skirmish. Like you, we enjoy being able to use any brand of fantasy figure in the same game. It's a ton of fun, but likely a bit more rules-lite than you're going for and it lacks long term charachter development mechanics. However, it has a pretty inovative activation mechanic and ultra simple rules that I would defintely recommend trying out as it may inspire you a bit.

We play it pretty often, check the link in my sig or PM me if you'd like to get in a game sometime.

Whatever you come up with, I'd be interested in seeing it and if it's not too crunchy the club might even be willing to give it a playtest.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/08/23 16:08:55


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