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2012/09/11 04:04:24
Subject: Drop pods Counting as immobile when they fall; -1 HP?
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Nasty Nob
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so the book says
Immobile: A Drop Pod cannot move once it has entered the
battle, and counts in all respects as a vehicle that has
suffered an Immobilised damage result (which cannot be
repaired in any way).
Does that mean it looses a HP from the get-go RAW wise? Of course I wont pull this one anyone, but I was trying to build SM allies for my tau and just noticed that the rules could be interpreted that way. Someone can help me find some way to argue against it should TFG ever try to argue it?
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/09/11 04:05:05
ERJAK wrote:
The fluff is like ketchup and mustard on a burger. Yes it's desirable, yes it makes things better, but no it doesn't fundamentally change what you're eating and no you shouldn't just drown the whole meal in it.
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2012/09/11 04:08:47
Subject: Drop pods Counting as immobile when they fall; -1 HP?
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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Pg 74. Immobilized. An Immobilized vehicle cannot move * it may not even pivot, but its turret may continue to rotate to select targets, and other weapons retain their normal arcs of fire. Any Immobilized results suffered by an already Immobilized vehicle, or a Flyer with locked Velocity (see page 8l) instead remove an additional Hull Point.
That is the Immobilized damage result. Nothing about a hull point in there.
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2012/09/11 04:08:57
Subject: Drop pods Counting as immobile when they fall; -1 HP?
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Nasty Nob on Warbike with Klaw
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The -1 hull point comes from the penetrating hit, not the damage result.
No Pen was caused on the pod, so no loss of HP.
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2012/09/11 04:10:06
Subject: Drop pods Counting as immobile when they fall; -1 HP?
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The Hive Mind
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grendel083 wrote:The -1 hull point comes from the penetrating hit, not the damage result.
No Pen was caused on the pod, so no loss of HP.
While I agree, dangerous terrain immobilizations also cause a hull point loss per the FAQ.
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My beautiful wife wrote:Trucks = Carnifex snack, Tanks = meals. |
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2012/09/11 04:16:14
Subject: Drop pods Counting as immobile when they fall; -1 HP?
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Nasty Nob on Warbike with Klaw
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rigeld2 wrote: grendel083 wrote:The -1 hull point comes from the penetrating hit, not the damage result.
No Pen was caused on the pod, so no loss of HP.
While I agree, dangerous terrain immobilizations also cause a hull point loss per the FAQ.
Good point.
I'd imagine that would be their way of simulating damage, rather than representing an immobilised vehicle. Who knows how a game designers mind works...
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2012/09/11 04:43:19
Subject: Drop pods Counting as immobile when they fall; -1 HP?
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[DCM]
Tilter at Windmills
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Per the new FAQ ruling, I would say so.
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Adepticon 2015: Team Tourney Best Imperial Team- Team Ironguts, Adepticon 2014: Team Tourney 6th/120, Best Imperial Team- Cold Steel Mercs 2, 40k Championship Qualifier ~25/226
More 2010-2014 GT/Major RTT Record (W/L/D) -- CSM: 78-20-9 // SW: 8-1-2 (Golden Ticket with SW), BA: 29-9-4 6th Ed GT & RTT Record (W/L/D) -- CSM: 36-12-2 // BA: 11-4-1 // SW: 1-1-1
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A better way to score Sportsmanship in tournaments
The 40K Rulebook & Codex FAQs. You should have these bookmarked if you play this game.
The Dakka Dakka Forum Rules You agreed to abide by these when you signed up.
Maelstrom's Edge! |
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2012/09/11 05:07:26
Subject: Drop pods Counting as immobile when they fall; -1 HP?
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Nasty Nob
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Can ya quote me which?
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ERJAK wrote:
The fluff is like ketchup and mustard on a burger. Yes it's desirable, yes it makes things better, but no it doesn't fundamentally change what you're eating and no you shouldn't just drown the whole meal in it.
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2012/09/11 05:14:53
Subject: Drop pods Counting as immobile when they fall; -1 HP?
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[DCM]
Tilter at Windmills
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Errata, page 2 of the main rulebook FAQ, 6th item on that page, amending page 71, "Vehicles, Difficult, and Dangerous Terrain".
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Adepticon 2015: Team Tourney Best Imperial Team- Team Ironguts, Adepticon 2014: Team Tourney 6th/120, Best Imperial Team- Cold Steel Mercs 2, 40k Championship Qualifier ~25/226
More 2010-2014 GT/Major RTT Record (W/L/D) -- CSM: 78-20-9 // SW: 8-1-2 (Golden Ticket with SW), BA: 29-9-4 6th Ed GT & RTT Record (W/L/D) -- CSM: 36-12-2 // BA: 11-4-1 // SW: 1-1-1
DT:70S++++G(FAQ)M++B++I+Pw40k99#+D+++A+++/sWD105R+++T(T)DM+++++
A better way to score Sportsmanship in tournaments
The 40K Rulebook & Codex FAQs. You should have these bookmarked if you play this game.
The Dakka Dakka Forum Rules You agreed to abide by these when you signed up.
Maelstrom's Edge! |
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2012/09/11 05:16:25
Subject: Drop pods Counting as immobile when they fall; -1 HP?
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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That is for difficult terrain, not simply landing on the field from DS.
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2012/09/11 11:25:39
Subject: Drop pods Counting as immobile when they fall; -1 HP?
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[MOD]
Making Stuff
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It's an equivalent enough situation, though, where the vehicle is 'damaged' by something other than an enemy attack.
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2012/09/11 11:34:13
Subject: Drop pods Counting as immobile when they fall; -1 HP?
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[DCM]
Tilter at Windmills
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That "counts in all respects as having suffered an immobilized damage result" is also telling. An Immobilized damage result in 6th alway accompanies the loss of a hull point.
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Adepticon 2015: Team Tourney Best Imperial Team- Team Ironguts, Adepticon 2014: Team Tourney 6th/120, Best Imperial Team- Cold Steel Mercs 2, 40k Championship Qualifier ~25/226
More 2010-2014 GT/Major RTT Record (W/L/D) -- CSM: 78-20-9 // SW: 8-1-2 (Golden Ticket with SW), BA: 29-9-4 6th Ed GT & RTT Record (W/L/D) -- CSM: 36-12-2 // BA: 11-4-1 // SW: 1-1-1
DT:70S++++G(FAQ)M++B++I+Pw40k99#+D+++A+++/sWD105R+++T(T)DM+++++
A better way to score Sportsmanship in tournaments
The 40K Rulebook & Codex FAQs. You should have these bookmarked if you play this game.
The Dakka Dakka Forum Rules You agreed to abide by these when you signed up.
Maelstrom's Edge! |
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2012/09/11 14:19:12
Subject: Drop pods Counting as immobile when they fall; -1 HP?
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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Awesome!!
Game Score:
Stupid Rules - 40
Common Sense - Love
Drop pods are what, 1 Hull Point now?
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2012/09/11 14:35:13
Subject: Re:Drop pods Counting as immobile when they fall; -1 HP?
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Member of a Lodge? I Can't Say
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Drop pods only count as being immobilised because they have no way of moving once they land. They don't lose a hull point just for arriving as losing a hull point is the result of a glancing or penetrating hit or a failed dangerous terrain test. The drop pod does not take a glancing/penetrating hit on arrival nor does it take a dangerous terrain test therefore no loss of hull point. Simple.
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“Because we couldn’t be trusted. The Emperor needed a weapon that would never obey its own desires before those of the Imperium. He needed a weapon that would never bite the hand that feeds. The World Eaters were not that weapon. We’ve all drawn blades purely for the sake of shedding blood, and we’ve all felt the exultation of winning a war that never even needed to happen. We are not the tame, reliable pets that the Emperor wanted. The Wolves obey, when we would not. The Wolves can be trusted, when we never could. They have a discipline we lack, because their passions are not aflame with the Butcher’s Nails buzzing in the back of their skulls.
The Wolves will always come to heel when called. In that regard, it is a mystery why they name themselves wolves. They are tame, collared by the Emperor, obeying his every whim. But a wolf doesn’t behave that way. Only a dog does.
That is why we are the Eaters of Worlds, and the War Hounds no longer."
– Eighth Captain, Khârn |
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2012/09/11 15:07:00
Subject: Re:Drop pods Counting as immobile when they fall; -1 HP?
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Regular Dakkanaut
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I don't understand why becoming immobilized from movement takes a HP, but the new FAQ says it does. Given that, I don't understand the argument that Drop Pods that "count as having suffered an immobilized damage result" would not suffer the HP loss as well.
What if it did land in dangerous terrain and failed the test? Second immobilized result, right?
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DS:70S++G+MB-IPw40k10#+D++++A+/aWD-R+T(D)DM+ |
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2012/09/11 15:07:58
Subject: Drop pods Counting as immobile when they fall; -1 HP?
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Secretive Dark Angels Veteran
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So if a Drop Pod lands into difficult terrain, and rolls a 1, it loses 2 hull points since it now has two immobilize results? I am glad that the Drop Pod has 3 hull points.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/09/11 15:08:26
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2012/09/11 15:50:19
Subject: Drop pods Counting as immobile when they fall; -1 HP?
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Confessor Of Sins
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There are 2 normal ways to suffer an immobilised result during normal play, both of which come with Hull Point damage:
* Difficult terrain test failure
* Penetrating hit result
The drop pod's rule doesn't mention it is immobilised by either of these, so I don't agree it suffers an automatic hull point loss.
Basically, just because it is immobilised doesn't mean the cause of it was either of the 2 mentioned above.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/09/11 15:51:11
Cratfworld Alaitoc (Gallery)
Order of the Red Mantle (Gallery)
Grand (little) Army of Chaos, now painting! (Blog) |
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2012/09/11 15:55:12
Subject: Re:Drop pods Counting as immobile when they fall; -1 HP?
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Member of a Lodge? I Can't Say
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If the drop pod lands on difficult terrain it would take a dangerous terrain test just as any other deep striking unit. If it failed this test, as it is already immobile, it would lose a hull point. It does not lose a hull point just for arriving on the board.
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“Because we couldn’t be trusted. The Emperor needed a weapon that would never obey its own desires before those of the Imperium. He needed a weapon that would never bite the hand that feeds. The World Eaters were not that weapon. We’ve all drawn blades purely for the sake of shedding blood, and we’ve all felt the exultation of winning a war that never even needed to happen. We are not the tame, reliable pets that the Emperor wanted. The Wolves obey, when we would not. The Wolves can be trusted, when we never could. They have a discipline we lack, because their passions are not aflame with the Butcher’s Nails buzzing in the back of their skulls.
The Wolves will always come to heel when called. In that regard, it is a mystery why they name themselves wolves. They are tame, collared by the Emperor, obeying his every whim. But a wolf doesn’t behave that way. Only a dog does.
That is why we are the Eaters of Worlds, and the War Hounds no longer."
– Eighth Captain, Khârn |
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2012/09/11 15:57:54
Subject: Drop pods Counting as immobile when they fall; -1 HP?
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Secretive Dark Angels Veteran
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If it fails the dangerous terrain test, it loses 1 hull point and get an immobilization (per FAQ). Since it is already immobilized, it takes one extra hull point loss. Not that it matters since it has 3 hull points and won't be wrecked.
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2012/09/11 15:59:11
Subject: Drop pods Counting as immobile when they fall; -1 HP?
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
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I agree with edbradder's and Shandara's reasonings.
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DA:70S+G+M+B++I++Pw40k08+D++A++/fWD-R+T(M)DM+
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2012/09/11 16:12:46
Subject: Drop pods Counting as immobile when they fall; -1 HP?
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Loyal Necron Lychguard
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leohart wrote:If it fails the dangerous terrain test, it loses 1 hull point and get an immobilization (per FAQ). Since it is already immobilized, it takes one extra hull point loss. Not that it matters since it has 3 hull points and won't be wrecked.
Uhm...well if the drop pod is immobilized on landing and losing 1 hull point, then suffers dangerous terrain failed roll (that is another hull point) and since it is already immobilized that would be a third hull point.
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2012/09/11 16:48:41
Subject: Drop pods Counting as immobile when they fall; -1 HP?
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Secretive Dark Angels Veteran
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That would not be the case since the Drop Pod becoming immobilized with its special rules doesn't make it lose 1 hull point. Thus, it will only lose at most 2 if it fails the dangerous terrain test.
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2012/09/11 16:57:01
Subject: Drop pods Counting as immobile when they fall; -1 HP?
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The Hive Mind
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So you're arguing that "and counts in all respects as a vehicle that has suffered an Immobilised damage result" doesn't mean it also takes a hull point?
Um. What happens when a vehicle suffers an Immobilised damage result? I'm not aware of any way for it to happen that doesn't result in a HP loss.
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My beautiful wife wrote:Trucks = Carnifex snack, Tanks = meals. |
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2012/09/11 16:59:51
Subject: Drop pods Counting as immobile when they fall; -1 HP?
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Loyal Necron Lychguard
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leohart wrote:That would not be the case since the Drop Pod becoming immobilized with its special rules doesn't make it lose 1 hull point. Thus, it will only lose at most 2 if it fails the dangerous terrain test.
You're assuming it doesn't lose a hull point for entering the board. While I would agree that it probably wasn't GW's intent for the drop pod to wreck if it deep strikes into terrain and fails it's dangerous test, as it stands at the moment that appears to be the case. Since the wording in the FAQ says it is immobilized exactly as if suffering a vehicle damage result, it would technically include losing a hull point. Though that's also probably the reason the drop pods are 3 hp instead of 2 hp.
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2012/09/11 17:08:41
Subject: Drop pods Counting as immobile when they fall; -1 HP?
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Secretive Dark Angels Veteran
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I think that is fair. The problem is then do the passengers get a 3" disembark + pinning per the wreckage? Or do they get the 6" disembark and then the Drop Pod is wreck?
In other words, which is more immediate, the disembarkation of the passengers per the Drop Pod special requirement? or, the wreckage of the transport due to difficult terrain.
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2012/09/11 17:09:24
Subject: Drop pods Counting as immobile when they fall; -1 HP?
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Confessor Of Sins
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Remember, you lose a hull point not from the immobilised result, but from the penetrating hit, they are 2 different steps.
After you resolve a normal hit and you penetrate, you have 2 steps:
1) deduct 1 Hull Point
2) roll on the damage table.
When you roll a 5 on the table that is when you "suffer an immobilised result".
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Cratfworld Alaitoc (Gallery)
Order of the Red Mantle (Gallery)
Grand (little) Army of Chaos, now painting! (Blog) |
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2012/09/11 17:13:09
Subject: Drop pods Counting as immobile when they fall; -1 HP?
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Member of a Lodge? I Can't Say
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rigeld2 wrote:So you're arguing that "and counts in all respects as a vehicle that has suffered an Immobilised damage result" doesn't mean it also takes a hull point?
Um. What happens when a vehicle suffers an Immobilised damage result? I'm not aware of any way for it to happen that doesn't result in a HP loss.
The immobilisation result itself does not remove a hull point, the penetration from a weapon causes the loss of a hull point. Seen as the drop pod has not been penetrated, no hull point loss.
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“Because we couldn’t be trusted. The Emperor needed a weapon that would never obey its own desires before those of the Imperium. He needed a weapon that would never bite the hand that feeds. The World Eaters were not that weapon. We’ve all drawn blades purely for the sake of shedding blood, and we’ve all felt the exultation of winning a war that never even needed to happen. We are not the tame, reliable pets that the Emperor wanted. The Wolves obey, when we would not. The Wolves can be trusted, when we never could. They have a discipline we lack, because their passions are not aflame with the Butcher’s Nails buzzing in the back of their skulls.
The Wolves will always come to heel when called. In that regard, it is a mystery why they name themselves wolves. They are tame, collared by the Emperor, obeying his every whim. But a wolf doesn’t behave that way. Only a dog does.
That is why we are the Eaters of Worlds, and the War Hounds no longer."
– Eighth Captain, Khârn |
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2012/09/11 17:15:58
Subject: Drop pods Counting as immobile when they fall; -1 HP?
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The Hive Mind
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Shandara wrote:Remember, you lose a hull point not from the immobilised result, but from the penetrating hit, they are 2 different steps.
After you resolve a normal hit and you penetrate, you have 2 steps:
1) deduct 1 Hull Point
2) roll on the damage table.
When you roll a 5 on the table that is when you "suffer an immobilised result".
And when you fail a dangerous terrain test you also suffer an immobilised result and lose a hull point.
BRB page 71 wrote:A vehicle that fails a Dangerous Terrain test is instantly Immobilised (see page 74).
Page 74 references the pen result.
I don't see a difference between the dangerous terrain test and the reference of "and counts in all respects as a vehicle that has suffered an Immobilised damage result"... meaning the Drop Pod instantly loses a hull point.
It has 3. 2 when it lands and becomes immobile, 1 if it lands in dangerous terrain and fails its test.
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My beautiful wife wrote:Trucks = Carnifex snack, Tanks = meals. |
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2012/09/11 17:22:20
Subject: Drop pods Counting as immobile when they fall; -1 HP?
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Loyal Necron Lychguard
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Shandara wrote:Remember, you lose a hull point not from the immobilised result, but from the penetrating hit, they are 2 different steps.
After you resolve a normal hit and you penetrate, you have 2 steps:
1) deduct 1 Hull Point
2) roll on the damage table.
When you roll a 5 on the table that is when you "suffer an immobilised result".
Yes, that is certainly one of the ways a vehicle can lose a hull point. You also lose one on glancing hits and for suffering immobilized results on the vehicle damage chart. Automatically Appended Next Post: rigeld2 wrote: Shandara wrote:Remember, you lose a hull point not from the immobilised result, but from the penetrating hit, they are 2 different steps.
After you resolve a normal hit and you penetrate, you have 2 steps:
1) deduct 1 Hull Point
2) roll on the damage table.
When you roll a 5 on the table that is when you "suffer an immobilised result".
And when you fail a dangerous terrain test you also suffer an immobilised result and lose a hull point.
BRB page 71 wrote:A vehicle that fails a Dangerous Terrain test is instantly Immobilised (see page 74).
Page 74 references the pen result.
I don't see a difference between the dangerous terrain test and the reference of "and counts in all respects as a vehicle that has suffered an Immobilised damage result"... meaning the Drop Pod instantly loses a hull point.
It has 3. 2 when it lands and becomes immobile, 1 if it lands in dangerous terrain and fails its test.
It would wreck. 3 at start, 2 on landing, 1 for failing DT test and another 1 since it's already immobilized. Wrecked.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/09/11 17:26:11
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2012/09/11 17:40:09
Subject: Drop pods Counting as immobile when they fall; -1 HP?
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The Hive Mind
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Kevin949 wrote:It would wreck. 3 at start, 2 on landing, 1 for failing DT test and another 1 since it's already immobilized. Wrecked.
Good point. Shows how much I pay attention to vehicle rules, being a Tyranid player and all...
So... don't land drop pods in dangerous terrain. Got it.
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My beautiful wife wrote:Trucks = Carnifex snack, Tanks = meals. |
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2012/09/11 17:42:22
Subject: Drop pods Counting as immobile when they fall; -1 HP?
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Huge Bone Giant
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This is simply amazing.
Now you know why you are allowed to drop them empty!
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"It is not the bullet with your name on it that should worry you, it's the one labeled "To whom it may concern. . ."
DQ:70S++G+++MB+I+Pwhfb06+D++A+++/aWD-R++++T(D)DM+ |
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