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http://www.frontlinegaming.org/2013/02/14/40k-independent-tournament-faq/

Please note, this is a working draft of the FAQ as voted upon by a council of Independent Tournament Organizers and is subject to change. This overrides any previous rulings I have made. This is also the FAQ you will see at many events, including Adepticon, WargamesCon, Feast of Blades, etc. so the rulings here will be in common use.

Warhammer 40,000 Rule Book

General Principles

- Being “removed from play” is the same thing as being “removed as a casualty”.

The Movement Phase

- A Tank is allowed to move through enemy models not locked in close combat when it turns on the spot to “aim” as part of a Tank Shock. Units moved through in this way count as being Tank Shocked and models in the path of the pivot may make Death or Glory attacks (provided the unit passes its Morale test). [pg. 76, W40KRB]

The Shooting Phase

- Models that Turbo-boost in the Shooting phase can move any number of inches (up to the maximum for their unit type) in any combination of directions, potentially ending the phase in the exact same position. [pg. 45, W40KRB]
- When a unit makes a shooting attack, so long as a model in the target unit was within range and LoS of at least one model in the firing unit when To Hit rolls were made the target model may have wounds allocated to it and be removed as a casualty.
Ex 1: A unit of 10 Grey Hunters with 8 Boltguns and 2 Meltaguns fires at a unit of Chaos Space Marines. The Space Wolves player chooses to resolve the Boltgun wounds first. After armor saves are made for the Boltgun wounds, the closest CSM is beyond the 12” range of either Meltaguner. This CSM model may still have the Meltagun wounds allocated to it and be removed as a casualty if any one of the Boltgun wielding Grey Hunters had range and LoS to it when To Hit rolls were made.
Ex 2: A Space Marine Tactical Squad with 4 Boltguns and a Lascannon shoots at a unit of Ork Boys. All 4 Boltgun wielding Marines have range and LoS to the same Ork Boy, but only that Boy. The Lascannon Marine has range and LoS to the entire Ork Boy unit. All Ork Boys can have unsaved wounds allocated to them and be removed as casualties. [pg. 3, W40KRB FAQ]

The Assault Phase

- Units are considered to be locked in close combat as soon as any enemy model moves into base to base contact with the unit. This prevents them from firing Overwatch against other units charging later in the Assault phase. [pg. 23, W40KRB]
- Units may choose not to make a Consolidation move after winning an assault. If they choose not to all models in the unit are left in their exact positions. [pg. 27, W40KRB]
- If a unit chooses to make a Consolidation move all models in the unit must end the movement 1” away from all enemy models. This means that if a unit chooses to make a Consolidation move it must end the move 1” away from all enemy vehicles, including those it may have just attacked in close combat. [pg. 27, W40KRB]

Psykers/Psychic Powers

- Multiple instances of the same Malediction cast by different models do stack with each other. [pg. 68, W40KRB]
- The Objuration Mechanicum psychic power has no effect on Zooming Flyers.

Universal Special Rules

- If a model with the Swarms special rule is wounded by a template or blast weapon that also causes Instant Death, the number of wounds is doubled and then an entire model is removed for each wound (e.g. if a Helldrake with a Baleflamer causes 3 wounds to a unit of Necron Scarabs 6 Scarab models would be removed as casualties). [pgs. 16 & 43, W40KRB]
- A unit can perform a Vector Strike in the same turn that it leaves Combat Airspace. [pgs. 43 & 81, W40KRB]

Flyers and Flying Monstrous Creatures

- Any attacks or special abilities that automatically effect enemy units without rolling to hit (e.g. an Ork Weirdboy’s Zzap psychic power, Imotekh’s Lord of the Storm or Njal’s Lord of Tempests special rules) have no effect on Zooming Flyers and Swooping Flying Monstrous Creatures. This is true even if the attacking unit has the Skyfire special rule.
- Weapons mounted on a Flyer model can swivel downward up to 45 degrees, even if the barrel on the model itself cannot physically do that. [pg. 72, W40KRB]

Blast Weapons

- Models completely out of LoS of the firing unit can be hit by a blast template and add wounds to the wound pool for the shooting attack. However, models completely out of LoS cannot have unsaved wounds allocated to them, and so cannot be removed as a casualties.

Template Weapons

- Models completely out of LoS of the firing unit can be hit by a template weapon and add wounds to the wound pool for the shooting attack. However, models completely of out LoS cannot have unsaved wounds allocated to them, and so cannot be removed as a casualties.
- Template weapons with the Torrent special rule must still abide by all relevant targeting and casualty removal rules of a template weapon (e.g. the firer must have LoS to the first model hit by the template). [pg. 43, W40KRB]

Allies

- A unit with an allied Independent Character attached cannot embark or begin the game embarked upon a transport vehicle. [pg. 112, W40KRB]
- Allies of Convenience are scoring units for the purchasing player, provided they meet all requirements to be a scoring unit. [pg. 112, W40KRB]

Fortifications

- Fortifications are not considered enemy or friendly units, do not generate Victory Points when destroyed, do not trigger effects caused by destroying a unit, and do not count as a surviving model in the purchasing player’s army. [pg. 44, W40KRB]
- Gun emplacements cannot be targeted by psychic powers, tank shocked, or assaulted. If while in assault with another unit a gun emplacement is engaged in close combat, attacks may be directed at the gun emplacement as if it was a separate unit.
- Both players may have a model in base contact with the same gun emplacement (provided they are 1” apart) and both models may fire it in consecutive Shooting phases. [pg. 105, W40KRB]
- Any model with a BS greater than 0 may fire a gun emplacement, including all vehicles and models without a ranged weapon. [pg. 105, W40KRB]
- Models on top of a Bastion that are obscured by the battlements receive a 4+ cover save. [pg. 97, W40KRB]
- Models behind a Bastion and obscured by the building portion of the model receive a 3+ cover save. [pg. 18, W40KRB]
- Models obscured by a ruined bastion receive a 4+ cover save. [pg. 18, W40KRB]
- The purchased Comms Relay and gun emplacement for a Bastion must be placed on the model’s roof.
- For the purposes of movement and unit coherency, treat the Skyshield Landing Pad as a ruin without a base and one upper level.
- Only models physically on top of a shielded Skyshield Landing Pad gain a 4+ invulnerable save.
- The shielding walls of a Skyshield Landing Pad are battlements and provide a 4+ cover save to models obscured by them.
- Models obscured by the leg/pillar portion of a Skyshield Landing Pad receive a 3+ cover save.

Missions

- Fast Attack and Heavy Support choices count as denial units in The Scouring and The Big Guns Never Tire missions respectively.
- Fast Attack and Heavy Support choices with the Swarms special rule count as scoring units in The Scouring and The Big Guns Never Tire missions respectively.
- In The Relic mission, if the relic is dropped because it moves more than 6” in a single phase, then it is dropped from the position where the carrying model began its move this phase.
- Units embarked on a transport cannot achieve the Linebreaker Secondary Objective for being in the enemy deployment zone.

Drop Pods

- Models disembarking from a drop pod can make a normal move ending wholly within 6” of the pod.
- When a drop pod deploys it is treated as suffering an immobilized damage result and removes a hull point.
- If a drop pod deploys into dangerous terrain and fails its DT test, it is treated as an already immobilized vehicle suffering a second immobilized result. It therefore removes two more hull points and is wrecked.
- If a drop pod is wrecked because of a failed dangerous terrain test, the unit inside is considered to be disembarking from a wrecked vehicle. They must end their disembarkation move wholly within 3” of the drop pod and take a Pinning test.
- The doors of a drop pod model are ignored for all game purposes (e.g. they never block LoS, they may not be disembarked from, and enemy models do not need to remain 1” away).
- A drop pod themed army may only start every unit in reserve if the following conditions are met:
+ Every unit (except Independent Characters) begins the game in their own dedicated drop pod transport.
+ Every Independent Character is joined to a unit inside their own dedicated drop pod transport.

[pg. 36, W40KRB]

Black Templars

Blood Angels

- The Blood Lance psychic power has no effect against Zooming Flyers and Swooping Flying Monstrous Creatures.

Chaos Daemons

- When Chaos Daemons are taken as an allied detachment two Daemonic Heralds may still be taken as a single HQ selection.
- Epidemius’ Tally of Pestilence special rule allows non-daemon models to benefit from Noxious Tough.
- A unit of Screamers of Tzeentch cannot make Slash Attacks against Zooming Flyers or Swooping Flying Monstrous Creatures.

Chaos Space Marines

- A model without the Champion of Chaos special rule may attempt a Glorious Intervention to save a model with the Champion of Chaos rule. [pg. 65, W40KRB]
- Two Independent Characters with different Marks of Chaos can both join the same unmarked unit.
- A marked Independent Character from the Chaos Space Marines codex cannot join a unit from the Chaos Daemons codex without a mark but devoted to a different god (e.g. Lucius the Eternal cannot join a unit of Bloodletters).
- Force weapons cannot cause Instant Death to Kharn the Betrayer even if their strength is double his toughness value (e.g. a Nemesis Daemonhammer). [pg. 59, C:CSM]
- A Warpsmith cannot use a fire point to curse an enemy vehicle with the Master of Mechanism’s special rule while embarked on a - vehicle.
- Plague Zombies can man gun emplacements and fire emplaced weapons. [pg. 105, W40KRB]
- LoS for a Helldrake with a Baleflamer is drawn from the head of the model. The head has a 360 degree LoS and ignores the rest of the Helldrake model when drawing LoS.
- Models with a Chaos bike may use their twin linked bolter as the replacement when the Chaos Wargear Lists says, “a model can replace one weapon with…”
- A Dimensional Key does not override the effects of the Jamming Beacon wargear on a Land Speeder Storm.

Dark Angels

- Dark Angels units using the Deathwing Assault special rule are ignored for the purposes of calculating the number of units that may be held in Reserves.
- A unit containing Belial that uses the Gate of Infinity psychic power to Deep Strike does not scatter. Also, the unit does not need to roll to see if a model is claimed by the warp.
- Ezekiel does benefit from the Book of Salvation wargear effectively making him WS6. [pg. 54, CA]
- A Deathwing Terminator model can take a Cyclone Missile Launcher and a Thunderhammer & Storm Shield. [pg. 99, CA]
- The following weapons are considered to be Boltguns when using the Standard of Devastation; Boltguns, Twin-linked Boltguns, Master-crafted Boltguns, Hurricane Bolters, and Combi-weapons (when fired as a Boltgun). Also note that the terms Boltgun and Bolter are always used interchangeably.
- The Shroud of Angels special rule means that two Ravenwing Darkshrouds within 6” of one another give each other Stealth. This Stealth stacks with the Shrouded the Dark Talons already have. [pg. 49, CA]

Dark Eldar

- The Penetrating Blade special rule applies to all of Lelith Hesperex’s attacks, even ranged attacks. [pg. 49, CE]

Eldar

- An Eldar Independent Character joined to a Dark Eldar unit cannot be the target of a psychic power that must be cast on an Eldar Unit.[pg. 39, W40KRB]
- An Eldar unit with a Dark Eldar Independent Character joined to it can be the target of a psychic power that must be cast on an Eldar Unit. While joined, the effects of the psychic power apply to the Dark Eldar character. [pg. 39, W40KRB]
- Phoenix Lords do not directly convey their unit benefits to non-aspect warrior units. However, if a Phoenix Lord has a special rule that would apply to any unit they join, those rules do apply to non-aspect warrior units joined by the Pheonix Lord (e.g. Khandras does not give the Stealth special rule to a unit of Guardians. But if Khandras joins a unit of Guardians the entire unit benefits from Stealth while he is attached.). [pg 54, C:Edr]
- If Prince Yriel chooses to use his Eye of Wrath wargear while he is involved in a challenge, place the large blast template normally. The enemy model also involved in the challenge is treated as being in a separate unit from any other units hit by the template. Wounds are then determined normally for each effected unit, removing casualties in order of closest to Prince Yriel. Using the Eye of Wrath in this way allows Prince Yriel to wound models not directly involved in the challenge.
- Cover saves may not be taken against Prince Yriel’s Eye of Wrath attacks.
- A Swooping Hawk unit that uses the Skyleap special rule to go back into reserves goes into Reserves, not Ongoing Reserves, and will therefore need to roll to return to the table on turns 2 and 3. [pg. 35, C:Edr]
- Vibro Cannon attacks have no effect against Zooming Flyers and Swooping Flying Monstrous Creatures.
- A model with the Eternal Warrior special rule still dies automatically and is removed if it fails its leadership test after being wounded by a Diresword. [pg. 30, C:Edr]

Grey Knights

- Allied units cannot benefit from the Grand Strategy special rule.
- A Neural Shredder uses the majority leadership of the target unit when rolling to wound.

Imperial Guard

- Valkyries and Vendettas cannot outflank. [pg. 4, C:IG FAQ]

Necrons

- If a model with the Reanimation Protocol special rule is part of a unit caught in a Sweeping Advance, do not place a Reanimation Protocol or Ever Living counter next to the unit.
- A successful Feel No Pain roll does not negate the armor reducing effects of the Entropic Strike special rule.
- If a Cryptek or any Independent Character is joined to a unit of Deathmarks that model also benefits from the Hunters from Hyperspace special rule.
- A Doom Scythe’s Death Ray is a hull mounted weapon. The initial point for the Death Ray can be anywhere within 12” of the weapon, and the second point anywhere within 3D6” of the first. However, only models in the Doom Scythe’s LoS and range (the greater of 24” from the Tesla Destructor or the variable range from the Death Ray) can have unsaved wounds allocated to them and be removed as causalities. For casualty removal purposes the Death Ray’s range is 12” plus the 3D6” rolled when picking the second point. Vehicles completely out of the Doom Scythe’s LoS are unaffected by the attack. Note that the Death Ray line may still pass over models completely out of LoS and cause hits for that unit. But in order to cause any casualties the unit must have some models in LoS and range of the Doom Scythe.
- The player whose turn it is determines whether the effects of mindschackle scarabs and whip coils are resolved before or after models involved in a challenge are moved into base to base contact. [pg. 9, W40KRB]
- When Mindshackle Scarabs are controlling a Deathwing Knight either the Necron or Dark Angels player can choose to activate the unit’s Smite Mode, and all Deathwing Knights in the unit must follow suit. However, if one player is striking at a higher Initiative step than the other player (e.g. the mindshalked Deathwing Knight is also being affected by a whip coil), then whichever mode the first attacking Deathwing Knight(s) choose to attack in will apply to all Deathwing Knights from the same unit.
- The Chronometron wargear can only be used on rolls of a single D6 (e.g. an armor save) not rolls that use multiple dice (e.g. a leadership test).

Orks

Sisters of Battle

- If Saint Celestine is turned into a Squig by the Zogwart’s Curse special rule in the Orks codex her Miraculous Intervention rule is effectively ignored. The Miraculous Intervention rule is triggered when she is removed as a casualty, this does not happen with Zogwort’s Curse. However, she is not considered “destroyed” until the squig is destroyed. But even after the squig is destroyed she cannot use Miraculous Intervention to return to the game.
- If Saint Celestine is turned into a Chaos Spawn using the Boon of Mutation special rule in the Chaos Daemons codex she is considered to be removed as a casualty. Place the Miraculous Intervention counter at the spot where she was turned into a spawn and roll normally for her return. The spawn version of Celestine remains in play whether or not she returns to the game. This means there could be multiple spawn versions of Celestine on the table.
- Attacks and special rules that reduce a characteristic or apply an ongoing effect to Saint Celestine (e.g. the Entropic Strike special rule) still apply if she returns to the game via Miraculous Intervention.

Space Marines

Space Wolves

- If an Ally of Convenience casts a psychic power within 24” of a Runic Weapon the Space Wolves player must roll a D6, and on a 4+ (3+ for Njal) that power is nullified. This is done instead of the Deny the Witch roll the opposing player would normally make. [pg. 112, W40kRB]
- Jump Infantry is a subclass of Infantry, and therefore Jump Infantry models are affected normally by the Jaws of the World Wolf psychic power.

Tau Empire

Tyranids

- A Tervigon cannot spawn Termagants in the same turn that is uses the Gate of Infinity psychic power.
- Units with the Stubborn special rule ignore the Deathleaper’s It’s After Me rule when taking Morale or Pinning tests.


Split this off from the BAO discussion.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/02/14 22:40:25


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Home Base: Prosper, TX (Dallas)

From other post and blog. I swear I'm done posting this. Stop moving where we're discussing it!

"Kudos to you guys for giving this a go. Might want to touch on the Space Wolf double HQ for allies since you did for Chaos Daemons. It’s under the GW FAQ but not blantantly spelled out. Also Relic/Flyer/Night Scythe issue as you can techinically now take the relic into reserve by embarking on and crashing your own scythe by RAW.

Not a fan of the tankshock ruling but I can see where it comes from. It does open up other issues though. Would you also ignore vehicles? They can’t be tankshocked and therefore should not be movable but the ruling implies they would.

I just flatout disagree with these:

Blast Weapons

•Models completely out of LoS of the firing unit can be hit by a blast template and add wounds to the wound pool for the shooting attack. However, models completely out of LoS cannot have unsaved wounds allocated to them, and so cannot be removed as a casualties.

Since the rules say you can hit and wound units out of range and line of sight I’m unsure why that’s being ignored for the purposes of this ruling.

•Fast Attack and Heavy Support choices count as denial units in The Scouring and The Big Guns Never Tire missions respectively.

The rules are pretty explicit about scoring and denial units. Troops are specifically mentioned as both for a reason. I feel this is a rule change, not a clarification.

Just my thoughts. Again guys though, kudos on getting this thing together. It’ll be nice for the sake of consistancy at major events"

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Longtime Dakkanaut






Getting my broom incase there is shenanigans.

I need to change my list around for Adepticon, but oddly not BAO


 
   
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Pasadena

Fantastic work!

I completely agree with your ruling on the devastation banner.

I do disagree with mss being used to activate a units special attacks, like the DW knights smite. Bear in mind I am bringing Necrons!

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Decrepit Dakkanaut






Los Angeles, CA

 OverwatchCNC wrote:
Fantastic work!

I completely agree with your ruling on the devastation banner.

I do disagree with mss being used to activate a units special attacks, like the DW knights smite. Bear in mind I am bringing Necrons!


Smite mode is an ability of a Melee weapon and therefore it is fair game for MSS to access.

Remember that GW ruled that MSS can force a psyker to activate his force ability as well (because it is an ability of a weapon), which means in the case of Nemesis weapons in a GK unit, a similar precedent is used (a MSS GK can essentially force his unit to activate its force weapons for the round if the unit still has a warp charge that turn).

The fact that Smite mode is a once per game ability does not change that basic logic. And remember, if the opposite logic was used (that the MSS Deathwing Knight couldn't activate Smite Mode because the rest of the unit didn't want to) then this would also mean that as long as a Deathwing Knight is under the sway of MSS then the rest of the unit would be unable to activate Smite Mode (if the Necron Player doesn't want to activate it on the model he controls).

But more importantly, Smite Mode is not a squad ability. It is just a rule that says all models in the unit must use Smite Mode at the same time, which means that if any models in the unit want to use the ability, the rest of them are compelled (by the rule) to do so. If the rule said something like: 'Smite Mode cannot be used by a model unless all models in the unit activate it at the same time', then the answer would be different.


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Pasadena

 yakface wrote:
 OverwatchCNC wrote:
Fantastic work!

I completely agree with your ruling on the devastation banner.

I do disagree with mss being used to activate a units special attacks, like the DW knights smite. Bear in mind I am bringing Necrons!


Smite mode is an ability of a Melee weapon and therefore it is fair game for MSS to access.

Remember that GW ruled that MSS can force a psyker to activate his force ability as well (because it is an ability of a weapon), which means in the case of Nemesis weapons in a GK unit, a similar precedent is used (a MSS GK can essentially force his unit to activate its force weapons for the round if the unit still has a warp charge that turn).

The fact that Smite mode is a once per game ability does not change that basic logic. And remember, if the opposite logic was used (that the MSS Deathwing Knight couldn't activate Smite Mode because the rest of the unit didn't want to) then this would also mean that as long as a Deathwing Knight is under the sway of MSS then the rest of the unit would be unable to activate Smite Mode (if the Necron Player doesn't want to activate it on the model he controls).

But more importantly, Smite Mode is not a squad ability. It is just a rule that says all models in the unit must use Smite Mode at the same time, which means that if any models in the unit want to use the ability, the rest of them are compelled (by the rule) to do so. If the rule said something like: 'Smite Mode cannot be used by a model unless all models in the unit activate it at the same time', then the answer would be different.



Ah! I had forgotten that , thanks for the clarification Yakface.

What about when my Unit of Immortals picks up the Relic, embarks on a NS and then the NS zooms and blows up. Does the Relic remain, in reserve, with the Immortals and they walk on with it next turn?

I would like a ruling on that, hopefully before the BAO!

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/02/15 04:07:50


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Decrepit Dakkanaut






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Yeah, the FAQ is still a WIP, so I think that question will definitely get included on the next pass.




I play (click on icons to see pics): DQ:70+S++G(FAQ)M++B-I++Pw40k92/f-D+++A+++/areWD104R+T(D)DM+++
yakface's 40K rule #1: Although the rules allow you to use modeling to your advantage, how badly do you need to win your toy soldier games?
yakface's 40K rule #2: Friends don't let friends start a MEQ army.
yakface's 40K rule #3: Codex does not ALWAYS trump the rulebook, so please don't say that!
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Home Base: Prosper, TX (Dallas)

@OverwatchCnC

I already threw that one out there. We have a local guy that tried it

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Pasadena

 Hulksmash wrote:
@OverwatchCnC

I already threw that one out there. We have a local guy that tried it


Well I certainly wasn't going to try it...


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San Diego Ca

- Gun emplacements cannot be targeted by psychic powers, tank shocked, or assaulted.

The BRB on pg 105 specifically states that Gun Emplacements CAN be assaulted and attacks auto-hit.
It also states you can shoot at GEs, so I would think a Psychic shooting attack (shockwave, Molten Beam, Flame Breath, etc) would be legal while anything that causes an effect (Enfeeble, Puppet Master, etc) would not work.
As for Tank Shock...a RAM strike (a kind of Tank Shock) should be legal. The hit would be resolved against the T of the Gun (T7) while the ramming vehicle takes no damage since the Gun is on an unarmoured structure. The gun still gets it 3+ save and the Ramming vehicle stops at that point.

(EDIT) To prevent shenanigans like someone someone setting up a Gun at the edge of their Table half, then assaulting it on turn 1 with their own guys to kill it and get a "free" Consolidation boost across the board, it should be ruled that ANY Gun Emplacements that you purchased in your FOC can not be Assaulted.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2013/02/15 07:43:24


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Decrepit Dakkanaut






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Hulksmash wrote:
Not a fan of the tankshock ruling but I can see where it comes from. It does open up other issues though. Would you also ignore vehicles? They can’t be tankshocked and therefore should not be movable but the ruling implies they would.


That's an easy fix for the next draft (just add 'non-vehicle' to the wording of the clarification).

dkellyj wrote:- Gun emplacements cannot be targeted by psychic powers, tank shocked, or assaulted.

The BRB on pg 105 specifically states that Gun Emplacements CAN be assaulted and attacks auto-hit.
It also states you can shoot at GEs, so I would think a Psychic shooting attack (shockwave, Molten Beam, Flame Breath, etc) would be legal while anything that causes an effect (Enfeeble, Puppet Master, etc) would not work.
As for Tank Shock...a RAM strike (a kind of Tank Shock) should be legal. The hit would be resolved against the T of the Gun (T7) while the ramming vehicle takes no damage since the Gun is on an unarmoured structure. The gun still gets it 3+ save and the Ramming vehicle stops at that point.


Yeah, that clarification will need to be updated to clarify that psychic shooting attacks can target a Gun Emplacement just fine...just not any non-psychic shooting attack psychic powers.


As to your other points: Gun Emplacements do not have a unit type and therefore we believe are not a 'model' nor a 'unit' per se and therefore can only be attacked by the way their rules specifically say then can (which is shooting and being assaulted).

Allowing them to be shot like a unit is no-brainer and easy to resolve. But being 'assaulted' is a really nebulous word that sounds like it was written with 5th edition in mind instead of 6th. If the rules had said either: they can be charged or just attacked in close combat it would be much more clear what the intent is, but as it stands now there's just no obviously clear way to proceed.

So the more cautious route was taken, to just say that you are only able to actually attack the GE in combat, as opposed to actually being able to charge it. Because it isn't a model (no unit type), all the charge rules that tell you to move towards a model, etc, don't work unless the GE rules specify they do (and there is precious little to go on).

Because once you make the leap that a unit can charge a GE, then all of a sudden players assault their OWN Gun Emplacements and then use hit and run in order to be able to sling-shot a super-powerful deathstar unit halfway across the table in the first turn.

Finally, please remember that even occupied buildings clearly cannot be rammed in the rules, so there absolutely is precedent for terrain that shares some characteristics with a model to not be able to be attacked like an actual model can.

Its definitely a tough situation to rule on, but I think its by far the more sensible choice.



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The "Drop Pod themed army" bit is a little strange; the way it's worded now it seems to be implying that you're not allowed to start everything in reserves if you have some units embarked on a flier as opposed to a drop pod, which is probably not intended. Likewise, it'd prevent some Terminators, who may always start in Reserves, from starting in Reserves.

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Plus the reserve rule isn't even a correct ruling. You may place half your units rounded up into reserve. So if you have X units in drop pods, Y units aboard flyers (or otherwise forced to start in reserve), and one normal unit you can still put everything in reserve RAW. You only have to start something on the table if you have two or more not-forced-into-reserve units.

As-stated in the "FAQ" it's a house rule, and if this was deliberate it's pretty disappointing that an effort to make a "standard" tournament FAQ would include house rules.

Imperial Guard

- Valkyries and Vendettas cannot outflank. [pg. 4, C:IG FAQ]


This is incorrect. The FAQ clearly refers to the scout redeployment. FAQs can only clarify ambiguous situations (can I "redeploy" onto the table with a flyer?) not remove rules entirely. Only errata can remove or change rules (for example, the removal of the lumbering behemoth rule from the Leman Russ was done through errata), so until GW issues errata saying "Valkyrie/Vendetta (page X): remove the Scout USR" they may not redeploy onto the table at the start of the game, but may use the Outflank USR to outflank just like any other unit.

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The Squig and Spawn rulings seem to be a bit bizzare considering they do the same thing.

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AlmightyWalrus wrote:The "Drop Pod themed army" bit is a little strange; the way it's worded now it seems to be implying that you're not allowed to start everything in reserves if you have some units embarked on a flier as opposed to a drop pod, which is probably not intended. Likewise, it'd prevent some Terminators, who may always start in Reserves, from starting in Reserves.



Peregrine wrote:Plus the reserve rule isn't even a correct ruling. You may place half your units rounded up into reserve. So if you have X units in drop pods, Y units aboard flyers (or otherwise forced to start in reserve), and one normal unit you can still put everything in reserve RAW. You only have to start something on the table if you have two or more not-forced-into-reserve units.

As-stated in the "FAQ" it's a house rule, and if this was deliberate it's pretty disappointing that an effort to make a "standard" tournament FAQ would include house rules.



This FAQ is a first draft, which has been accelerated to get something done in time for Reece to be able to post it for the BAO. If a ruling perhaps seems to imply something that it likely wasn't intending, then it can obviously be revised to be more clear.

2nd, this is a FAQ by tournament organizers voted on for their particular events. Just because it is used by them does not mean it is suddenly going to answer every ruling in a way that every person agrees with, because such a thing is categorically impossible.

There is a real question about how reserves are played when you've got things like Deep Strike and Terminators involved, and the attempt of this ruling was to address some of this, but I agree that isn't probably accomplishing that goal very clearly, so it can be looked at to be made more clear. But in the end, make no mistake that there is a grey area here that people disagree upon, so no matter which way it is ruled, it is a decision that is just being made so that attendees have prior knowledge of how a judge will rule, *not* because the decision is somehow 'right'.


Peregrine wrote:

Imperial Guard

- Valkyries and Vendettas cannot outflank. [pg. 4, C:IG FAQ]


This is incorrect. The FAQ clearly refers to the scout redeployment. FAQs can only clarify ambiguous situations (can I "redeploy" onto the table with a flyer?) not remove rules entirely. Only errata can remove or change rules (for example, the removal of the lumbering behemoth rule from the Leman Russ was done through errata), so until GW issues errata saying "Valkyrie/Vendetta (page X): remove the Scout USR" they may not redeploy onto the table at the start of the game, but may use the Outflank USR to outflank just like any other unit.



That is NOT what the IG FAQ says. It actually says:

Q: What effect, if any, does the Scout special rule have on a Valkyrie or Vendetta? Will this allow it to enter play in Turn 1 by redeploying 6"
onto the board? (p56)
A: It has no effect.


Those are two questions, both answered with a single answer. The answer is, it has NO effect, not that it is has no effect on the flyer's ability to make a scout redeploy.

Mr Morden wrote:The Squig and Spawn rulings seem to be a bit bizzare considering they do the same thing.


Actually if you look at them, they are quite different (hence the different ruling).

Boon of Mutation specifically causes the model to be removed as a casualty. And THEN, if you have a spawn model available, you can replace the model with the Spawn. But, for example, if you don't have a Spawn, then you don't at all.

Zogwort's curse does not specify that the model is removed as a casualty (or even that the model is removed), it ONLY says that the model is replaced by a Squig, and then it goes on to explain that the Squig has no special rules besides being an IC, etc, which, along with the fact that the player whose model got replaced maintains control of the Squig, strongly implies that the model is actually getting turned into the Squig.

Fluff-wise, Boon of Mutation only makes sense if the model is also being turned into the spawn, but mechanics-wise it is a whole different beast from Zogwort's curse.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/02/15 13:46:44


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 yakface wrote:
That is NOT what the IG FAQ says. It actually says:

Q: What effect, if any, does the Scout special rule have on a Valkyrie or Vendetta? Will this allow it to enter play in Turn 1 by redeploying 6"
onto the board? (p56)
A: It has no effect.


Those are two questions, both answered with a single answer. The answer is, it has NO effect, not that it is has no effect on the flyer's ability to make a scout redeploy.


I know what the FAQ says.

The "it" in that sentence can be interpreted in two ways:

1) The benefits of the Scout USR itself (IOW, the redeployment). This is consistent with how FAQs are used because it simply clarifies something that was already answered RAW* for the people who don't bother reading the rulebook before asking stupid questions (and/or TFGs who think they're clever by finding loopholes to start their Vendettas on the table).

2) The entire text of the Scout USR, including the granting of the Outflank USR. This is NOT consistent with how FAQs are used because it is making a rule CHANGE, something that requires errata to do**.

The conclusion here is obvious: when you have two conflicting interpretations, you go with the one that does not contradict how GW uses FAQs and errata, and that is option #1.


*You have to redeploy within X", and a unit that is not on the table can not redeploy within X" and end up on the table.

**For example, when GW removed Lumbering Behemoth from the Leman Russ they did it with errata, not an FAQ. This is the proper use of errata and how to change a rule.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/02/15 10:20:57


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[
Mr Morden wrote:The Squig and Spawn rulings seem to be a bit bizzare considering they do the same thing.


Actually if you look at them, they are quite different (hence the different ruling).

Boon of Mutation specifically causes the model to be removed as a casualty. And THEN, if you have a spawn model available, you can replace the model with the Spawn. But, for example, if you don't have a Spawn, then you don't at all.

Zogwort's curse does not specify that the model is removed as a casualty (or even that the model is removed), it ONLY says that the model is replaced by a Squig, and then it goes on to explain that the Squig has no special rules besides being an IC, etc, which, along with the fact that the player whose model got replaced maintains control of the Squig, strongly implies that the model is actually getting turned into the Squig.

Fluff-wise, Boon of Mutation only makes sense if the model is also being turned into the spawn, but mechanics-wise it is a whole different beast from Zogwort's curse.


In reality what is the difference between removal and replaced - both mean that its a casualty?

plus if the argument is that the model remains the same in the squig instance then why does she not return when the squig form is destroyed as normal?

Also why do effects linger even though its an entirely new version of her but she does not return as a spawn - does not make sense to me.

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Decrepit Dakkanaut






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Peregrine wrote:
I know what the FAQ says.

The "it" in that sentence can be interpreted in two ways:

1) The benefits of the Scout USR itself (IOW, the redeployment). This is consistent with how FAQs are used because it simply clarifies something that was already answered RAW* for the people who don't bother reading the rulebook before asking stupid questions (and/or TFGs who think they're clever by finding loopholes to start their Vendettas on the table).

2) The entire text of the Scout USR, including the granting of the Outflank USR. This is NOT consistent with how FAQs are used because it is making a rule CHANGE, something that requires errata to do**.

The conclusion here is obvious: when you have two conflicting interpretations, you go with the one that does not contradict how GW uses FAQs and errata, and that is option #1.


*You have to redeploy within X", and a unit that is not on the table can not redeploy within X" and end up on the table.

**For example, when GW removed Lumbering Behemoth from the Leman Russ they did it with errata, not an FAQ. This is the proper use of errata and how to change a rule.


That principle is nice in theory, but the reality is that GW does not abide by it. There are dozens of outright rules changes found in their FAQs whether they realize it or not.

To rule it that way means you do have to contradict the FAQ answer because then Scout does have an affect on the Valk/Vendetta...at least that is the position voted upon in this particular case as being the option that seems to best follow what their FAQ actually says.

Mr Morden wrote:
In reality what is the difference between removal and replaced - both mean that its a casualty?

plus if the argument is that the model remains the same in the squig instance then why does she not return when the squig form is destroyed as normal?

Also why do effects linger even though its an entirely new version of her but she does not return as a spawn - does not make sense to me.


If you take a close look at both rules, I guarantee you will spot the difference. The reason she does not return when her squig form is killed is that Zogwort's Curse specifically says that when the model gets turned into a squig, it does not have any special rules (besides IC), so any special rules the model has are lost when it turns into a Squig.

Again, Boon causes the model to become a casualty and then, if the CD player has a spawn model, it then replaces the former model. But even if there is no Spawn to place the model still gets removed as a casualty (which triggers Celestine's rule). Zogwort's Curse requires a squig model to fulfill the rule...if you don't have a Squig model, the the power (as written) cannot be completed.

And of course there is the major difference that with Zogwort's Curse the original owner retains control of the model whereas with BoM, the character gets replaced by an enemy-controlled Spawn.

So while they are similar in some respects, in certain key areas, they are not.



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The squig rules specifically say the model loses all it's special rules and gets turned into a squig. Celestine's returning to the table is a special rule, end of line.

Gift of chaos doesn't remove any special rules, and kills it's victim before replacing it with a spawn. Because she's dead celestine comes back.

Anyhow on to a new question.

Can members of a platoon embark in a Valkyrie or vendetta if their platoon starts on the board?

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 schadenfreude wrote:

Can members of a platoon embark in a Valkyrie or vendetta if their platoon starts on the board?


That's more of just a general question of: can some parts of a platoon be held in reserve while others aren't? And should probably be covered as well.

Keep 'em coming (good quality questions that need to be answered).

I'll make sure they get passed on.


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@Yakface

I know it's the first draft It's why I threw that out there for clarifying and encourage the necron flyer relic answer.

As for the gun emplacement ruling I approve. Anyone who has ever sling shotted a 50 man blob with dante and a divination libby up the field should also agree. Being 18" away from your opponents table edge (or closer) after turn one with a unit like that is ridiculous

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Allies

- A unit with an allied Independent Character attached cannot embark or begin the game embarked upon a transport vehicle. [pg. 112, W40KRB]
- Allies of Convenience are scoring units for the purchasing player, provided they meet all requirements to be a scoring unit. [pg. 112, W40KRB]



So this means that allies of convenience can score by themselves, but can they prevent the primary detachment from scoring (and vice versa), since they treat each other as enemies?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/02/15 15:00:28


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 kronk wrote:
Allies

- A unit with an allied Independent Character attached cannot embark or begin the game embarked upon a transport vehicle. [pg. 112, W40KRB]
- Allies of Convenience are scoring units for the purchasing player, provided they meet all requirements to be a scoring unit. [pg. 112, W40KRB]



So this means that allies of convenience can score by themselves, but can they prevent the primary detachment from scoring (and vice versa), since they treat each other as enemies?

The models treat each other as enemies. Do you (the player) treat them as enemies? Who counts VP at the end of the game - you or your models?
I'm not being snarky but reading the rules on this is pretty clear.

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 kronk wrote:
So this means that allies of convenience can score by themselves, but can they prevent the primary detachment from scoring (and vice versa), since they treat each other as enemies?


I hate you

- The Objuration Mechanicum psychic power has no effect on Zooming Flyers.
- Models completely out of LoS of the firing unit can be hit by a blast template and add wounds to the wound pool for the shooting attack. However, models completely out of LoS cannot have unsaved wounds allocated to them, and so cannot be removed as a casualties.
- Fast Attack and Heavy Support choices count as denial units in The Scouring and The Big Guns Never Tire missions respectively.
- Fast Attack and Heavy Support choices with the Swarms special rule count as scoring units in The Scouring and The Big Guns Never Tire missions respectively.


These rules changes make no sense and directly contradict the rulebook.

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- The Objuration Mechanicum psychic power has no effect on Zooming Flyers.

Why? It's a Malediction so it doesn't roll to hit. This is an outright change to the rules instead of a clarification.
- Jump Infantry is a subclass of Infantry, and therefore Jump Infantry models are affected normally by the Jaws of the World Wolf psychic power.

Should also note Jump Monstrous Creatures.
- A Doom Scythe’s Death Ray is a hull mounted weapon.

Should clarify where LoS is drawn from. Anywhere on the hull? The weapon?
- A successful Feel No Pain roll does not negate the armor reducing effects of the Entropic Strike special rule.

Interesting stance. Now - is this going to be consistent for every ability with an unsaved wound as the trigger?
If you're going to change the rules at least be consistent.
- If Prince Yriel chooses to use his Eye of Wrath

I assume you're going to be ruling similarly for other abilities that are used in combat/CC? I know Chaos has one and so do Daemons.
- Dark Angels units using the Deathwing Assault special rule are ignored for the purposes of calculating the number of units that may be held in Reserves.

Why? Just because they used to be able to? I'd love to hear a reasoning behind this.
- LoS for a Helldrake with a Baleflamer

But not with a Hades Autocannon? Why?
- Epidemius’ Tally of Pestilence special rule allows non-daemon models to benefit from Noxious Tough.

Typo - should be Touch
- Weapons mounted on a Flyer model can swivel downward up to 45 degrees, even if the barrel on the model itself cannot physically do that. [pg. 72, W40KRB]

Is this 45 degrees down from level, despite the fact that the rules say 45 degrees *total* (so 22.5 down)? Also, can the model shoot through itself - meaning can the top turret on a Stormraven shoot through the cockpit?


Need to rule on Spirit Leech - is it resolved as a Shooting Attack (and therefore things like the Skyshield invul works against it) or a special rule that causes wounds (similar to Soul Blaze) and also what method of allocation to use (Random or opponents choice - the latter has precedent in Soul Blaze).

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 Chumbalaya wrote:
 kronk wrote:
So this means that allies of convenience can score by themselves, but can they prevent the primary detachment from scoring (and vice versa), since they treat each other as enemies?


I hate you


Note: I don't care either way, I just want clarification for how to handle it.

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rigeld2 wrote:
- The Objuration Mechanicum psychic power has no effect on Zooming Flyers.

Why? It's a Malediction so it doesn't roll to hit. This is an outright change to the rules instead of a clarification.

I actually think this one is in line with sentences two and three of the GW rulebook FAQ, because OM causes Haywire hits. More detailed discussion about "attacks" here:
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/90/506529.page#5277151


rigeld2 wrote:
- Dark Angels units using the Deathwing Assault special rule are ignored for the purposes of calculating the number of units that may be held in Reserves.

Why? Just because they used to be able to? I'd love to hear a reasoning behind this.

I'm curious as well.

rigeld2 wrote:
Weapons mounted on a Flyer model can swivel downward up to 45 degrees, even if the barrel on the model itself cannot physically do that. [pg. 72, W40KRB]

Is this 45 degrees down from level, despite the fact that the rules say 45 degrees *total* (so 22.5 down)?

Agreed. Vehicle weapons can swivel up to 45 degree vertically. Which should be 22.5 up and 22.5 down.

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I can understand the ruling for DWA. I've contended from the beginning this was the intention based on DWA being out of sequence with the rest of the reserve rules and not having the option to deploy regularly when the reserve decision is made.

That and I'm pretty sure this is how GW is going to rule it. I can see the reasoning pretty easily.

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 Mannahnin wrote:
rigeld2 wrote:
- The Objuration Mechanicum psychic power has no effect on Zooming Flyers.

Why? It's a Malediction so it doesn't roll to hit. This is an outright change to the rules instead of a clarification.

I actually think this one is in line with sentences two and three of the GW rulebook FAQ, because OM causes Haywire hits. More detailed discussion about "attacks" here:
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/90/506529.page#5277151

It's not an attack that automatically hits. It's more similar to the Tesla hits (not the Arc - the extra 2 for rolling a 6).
It even skips straight to allocation of the hit skipping the pen/glance roll.

edit: And the Malediction is what did the initial targeting so there's no issue there.
And OM does more than just the Haywire effect. The FAQ says it has no effect whatsoever - meaning it doesn't force the Flyer to re-roll To Hit and To Wound rolls of a 6.
Also - this needs to be clarified to also have no effect on FMCs.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/02/15 16:12:48


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- A marked Independent Character from the Chaos Space Marines codex cannot join a unit from the Chaos Daemons codex without a mark but devoted to a different god (e.g. Lucius the Eternal cannot join a unit of Bloodletters).


This is unneeded. The GW FAQ fro Daemons already outlaws any allied ICs from Joining Units of Daemons.

•Fast Attack and Heavy Support choices count as denial units in The Scouring and The Big Guns Never Tire missions respectively.

The rules are pretty explicit about scoring and denial units. Troops are specifically mentioned as both for a reason. I feel this is a rule change, not a clarification.


Agree with Hulksmash here. There is a clear separation of Scoring and Denial.

- The following weapons are considered to be Boltguns when using the Standard of Devastation; Boltguns, Twin-linked Boltguns, Master-crafted Boltguns, Hurricane Bolters, and Combi-weapons (when fired as a Boltgun). Also note that the terms Boltgun and Bolter are always used interchangeably.


Leave off the last statement by that rational a Storm Bolter = Storm Boltgun, and then should benefit.


Other Questions:

Can Fortifications (emplaced weapons, Bastions etc) claim coversaves?





   
 
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