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Made in ca
Devastating Dark Reaper




Calgary Canada

 Zweischneid wrote:
But Bolters and Space Marines weren't what they are today in RT. They were just crooks, ruffians and low-lifes with too much aggression drafted into some space army. Calgar was raised as a Tyranid-slave boy and Ultramarines had an Eldar Librarian. So it might have made sense for Eldar Weapons to have been better back than. But even if the Eldar-background hasn't changed, the Space Marines (and Bolter) fluff sure did.



My take on this would be that the catapults need to be even better today as the fluff for SM's has evolved. Eldar are a dying race they were meant as I understand it to represent an advanced society in decline but technologically advanced. That's why I am a fan of Eldar having lots of constructs powered by spirit stones, It wouldnt make sense IMO to keep them as a 40K race as small in number dying out weaker in technology etc essentially nothing going for them except perhaps advanced psychic ability.

Biel Tan Eldar 6th (10 Wins 0 Draws 4 Losses) 
   
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Made in gb
Tunneling Trygon




In the Warp, giving you -3 Ld

OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:In short no

(as GW never says anything official till just before it happens nowadays)

but it does seem a solid bet with most of the more reliable rumourmongers saying so


Macok wrote:Still, the rumours are really scarce considering that the codex (supposedly) will be around in ~3 weeks.

That's the thing though. For the HE release, we had a long list of new units and rules (most of which were fairly accurate) as well as, more importantly, a massive picture featuring most of the new releases. For Eldar, it seems we only have that plastic farseer and a few speculative guesses as to new units.

The Shadow - The King of all things Pointy-Eared that don't live in woods or Commoragh.

Selling OnG, CSMs and Necrons in the Swap Shop, have a look - http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/565870.page
 
   
Made in us
Swift Swooping Hawk





Omaha, NE

FYI -- to all those guys who think the Shuriken Catapult was worse back in the day...

RT era had str4 24" -2 save mod and follow fire.
RT bolters had str4 24" -1 save mod.

My Eldar used to CHEW through Marines...

2nd ed switched to the sustained fire dice still str 4 , -2 save mod

3rd ed is where things went down hill...

The Shuriken catapult has changed twice in its lifetime.

Now , back to the speculation...

What do you think Scorpions Mandiblaster attack will be...
Im thinking it will be a hammer of wrath at str 4.

What do you guys think?

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Made in us
Agile Revenant Titan





Augusta, Georgia

That actually makes sense and would think it is reasonable.

On that note, Reapers need their old anti tank missile launcher and give it skyfire as standard (Rangefinder Helmets of old).

Give Banshees some type of Exarch ability that makes them move like Beasts for a turn (assault delivery system) as this has been their biggest issue for years; no way to actually make it to assault.

I like Shred on Shuriken weapons; it fits 6th edition and also acknowledges how they were originally conceived. Dire Avengers with Bladestorm and Prescience cast would be just a brutal mid range shooting unit. Heck, Fire Warriors are throwing 24 S5 shots out at 30" now with a cheap IC upgrade.

Hawks are my favorite model and wish we'd get something usable, such as some ability to go after fliers and/or give decent shooting.

Spiders: please return the template to their weapon profile.

That's my major wish lists for updating the Aspect Warriors.


For all the GW hate, they've done something right as I've been playing 40K since 1989. 
   
Made in us
Horrific Howling Banshee




Neenah, Wisconsin

Ooooo, I hadn't thought of HoW for mandiblasters. That's a good idea.

Visit my blog at www.goingaming.blogspot.com


 
   
Made in us
Swift Swooping Hawk





Omaha, NE

Yeah, id like to see templates come back to the Warp Spiders as well.
And the Anti-Tank Reapers would be nice again too.
I think having Hawks be able to assault flying vehicles would be cool, not really a swing at the vehicle as much as a barrage of EMP grenades...
Banshees are in DIRE need of a fix...I agree that the assault has not been kind to them since 3rd ed.
The Wave serpent needs an upgrade to allow it to become an ASSAULT vehicle. Exposing your weakest armor for a turn and hoping that the opponent doesnt blow the tank to shreds thereby forcing all kinds of armor saves on your fragile Banshees just sucked!!
I also want a VIABLE Avatar!! The current piece of crap just doesnt cut it...once during a game of 5th ed, my Avatar died to GROT BLASTERS!!!! He has been collecting dust since..

Make him..
Immune to all attacks that are less than his toughness...It is walking MOLTEN LAVA!!! Come on Man!!
2+ Armor , 5+ Invulnerable sounds fair. At least 4 wounds.
And the Wailing Doom needs to be a Melta 12" Str8 Blast

And bring back the Exodite Dragon Knights!!!

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Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




West Michigan, deep in Whitebread, USA

But Bolters and Space Marines weren't what they are today in RT. They were just crooks, ruffians and low-lifes with too much aggression drafted into some space army. Calgar was raised as a Tyranid-slave boy and Ultramarines had an Eldar Librarian. So it might have made sense for Eldar Weapons to have been better back than. But even if the Eldar-background hasn't changed, the Space Marines (and Bolter) fluff sure did.


All the basic Space Marine (and Bolter) fluff is the same now as it was in 2nd edition. None of what you listed existed after Rogue Trader. All the Ultramarines fluff, for instance, is exactly the same as 20 years ago. Most people playing the game nowadays were just in diapers back then.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/05/14 21:47:12




"By this point I'm convinced 100% that every single race in the 40k universe have somehow tapped into the ork ability to just have their tech work because they think it should."  
   
Made in us
Ultramarine Terminator with Assault Cannon





Upstate, New York

 Kyrolon wrote:
Ooooo, I hadn't thought of HoW for mandiblasters. That's a good idea.


It is a good representation of the extra first hit thing.

I think banshee masks should make it so the unit they charge doesn't get overwatch. Seems a good 6th edition answer to what they do in the fluff. You get stunned while they come in and kill you.

Having two different charge abilities will help give more flavor to the two major CC aspects.

Ultramarines, 3rd Co.
In progress
Nevelon's Workbench: Ultramarines and Saim-Hann 
   
Made in us
Blood Angel Neophyte Undergoing Surgeries




Tampa, Florida

uberjoras wrote:
Even the Tau rumors were pretty scarce, considering. In about 2 weeks we can expect leaked codex pictures, I imagine.


The end of this weekend should see better inklings of the rules. Next week, the preorders go up. So we should be seeing things the next few days. I don't know when WDs are received, but I assume next Wednesday area?

"Anything that can go wrong will go wrong."  
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




West Michigan, deep in Whitebread, USA

I think banshee masks should make it so the unit they charge doesn't get overwatch. Seems a good 6th edition answer to what they do in the fluff. You get stunned while they come in and kill you.



That would actually be a sweet way to update them for 6th edition. Too many assault units are defined by how effectively they can hit the enemy, the Banshee Mask was always about how it made enemies defenseless in the face of being assaulted.

The Shuriken Catapult is a mainstay weapon of the Eldar that's been around since Rogue Trader, with little change along the way (going from Sustained Fire Dice to Assault 2 is the biggest change I can think of).


The Sustained Fire/Assault 2 change is the least of the changes, notable being their range being dropped by 50%. Shuriken Cannons lost 12" of range, too.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/05/14 23:51:54




"By this point I'm convinced 100% that every single race in the 40k universe have somehow tapped into the ork ability to just have their tech work because they think it should."  
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut





FarseerAndyMan wrote:

I also want a VIABLE Avatar!! The current piece of crap just doesnt cut it...once during a game of 5th ed, my Avatar died to GROT BLASTERS!!!! He has been collecting dust since..

Make him..
Immune to all attacks that are less than his toughness...It is walking MOLTEN LAVA!!! Come on Man!!
2+ Armor , 5+ Invulnerable sounds fair. At least 4 wounds.
And the Wailing Doom needs to be a Melta 12" Str8 Blast

And bring back the Exodite Dragon Knights!!!


First time I fielded him, he died from loota fire and he stole the initiative to make things worse. The thing with the Avatar is he needs fortune because he just attracts sooo much fire so we really just need to raise his toughness to 8 and he will be good to go w/o fortune. You really should play with the Avatar though. He has not dissapointed me since that first day!

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Field testing>>>Paper testing 
   
Made in us
Long-Range Land Speeder Pilot







There is just far too much wishlisting going on with the rumors for an army that is already pretty powerful with an extremely old codex. Thing is, any units that see big improvements are going to come at a cost, either other units will be heavily nerfed (war walkers, wraithguard, and farseers) to balance it out, or they will be so expensive they won't be viewed as "competative" because you won't be able to take multiple maxed out units.

If the rumors of reduced points for Guardians hold up, don't expect some massive boost to the shurikats. Heck, you probably won't see any boost at all!

If anything, should Guardians stay the same points, they should be given the same shurikat as the DA. The DA would still have bladestorm and such, but the range should be the same (or have some other power that makes the range better). Anything better would require a points spike for Guardians and nobody wants that.

Eldar already have a ton of decent strength, decent range, multi shot weapons and anti-armour. They don't need more shooting, they need some improvements on their assault capabilities and specialized units. Banshees need something, Scorpions are just fine as they are, and Warpspiders and Swooping Hawks really need an overhaul.

Warp Spiders should have jet packs instead of Jump. They also need templates back. Maybe ST4, AP6 Rending. Swooping Hawks, heck I have no idea what to do with them. Banshees need the ability to assault out of a transport or something that boosts their number of attacks, or perhaps an invulnerable "dodge" save.

I wouldn't be shocked if one or more of the heavier armoured units such as Scorpions, Warpspiders, Jetbikes, and Dark Reapers lost a point of armour. Wraithguard are almost certainly going to lose at least 1 point of toughness, possibly 2. For a speedy finesse army, they have a lot of 3+ saves available to them and it seems like GW is pushing for a strongly defined style/role for each army with 6th, and Eldar haven't had that kind of focus in a long time.
   
Made in us
Fresh-Faced New User





 ClassicCarraway wrote:
There is just far too much wishlisting going on with the rumors for an army that is already pretty powerful with an extremely old codex. Thing is, any units that see big improvements are going to come at a cost, either other units will be heavily nerfed (war walkers, wraithguard, and farseers) to balance it out, or they will be so expensive they won't be viewed as "competative" because you won't be able to take multiple maxed out units.

If the rumors of reduced points for Guardians hold up, don't expect some massive boost to the shurikats. Heck, you probably won't see any boost at all!

If anything, should Guardians stay the same points, they should be given the same shurikat as the DA. The DA would still have bladestorm and such, but the range should be the same (or have some other power that makes the range better). Anything better would require a points spike for Guardians and nobody wants that.

Eldar already have a ton of decent strength, decent range, multi shot weapons and anti-armour. They don't need more shooting, they need some improvements on their assault capabilities and specialized units. Banshees need something, Scorpions are just fine as they are, and Warpspiders and Swooping Hawks really need an overhaul.

Warp Spiders should have jet packs instead of Jump. They also need templates back. Maybe ST4, AP6 Rending. Swooping Hawks, heck I have no idea what to do with them. Banshees need the ability to assault out of a transport or something that boosts their number of attacks, or perhaps an invulnerable "dodge" save.

I wouldn't be shocked if one or more of the heavier armoured units such as Scorpions, Warpspiders, Jetbikes, and Dark Reapers lost a point of armour. Wraithguard are almost certainly going to lose at least 1 point of toughness, possibly 2. For a speedy finesse army, they have a lot of 3+ saves available to them and it seems like GW is pushing for a strongly defined style/role for each army with 6th, and Eldar haven't had that kind of focus in a long time.


You sir, are on crack.
   
Made in tt
[MOD]
Grimdark Advice Columnist






Port of Spain, Trinidad

 Lorek wrote:
The Shuriken Catapult is a mainstay weapon of the Eldar that's been around since Rogue Trader, with little change along the way (going from Sustained Fire Dice to Assault 2 is the biggest change I can think of).

I don't really think GW is going to change the strength of such an iconic weapon, and I would be really surprised if they did. I can see them changing the range and possibly the rate of fire, but not the basic gun.

We may see Exarch (or whatever they'll be called now) powers that add things like Fleshbane or Rending, which would be interesting and fun.


But back in the day Guardians could choose lasguns instead for ranged punch.

Some sort of upgraded Eldar lasgun (S3 assault 2? like the lasblaster) would make sense. But that would mean remolding the 10+ year old guardians and GW has no interest in remolding basic kits.

 
   
Made in tr
Member of the Malleus





Carthuun wrote:
 ClassicCarraway wrote:
There is just far too much wishlisting going on with the rumors for an army that is already pretty powerful with an extremely old codex. Thing is, any units that see big improvements are going to come at a cost, either other units will be heavily nerfed (war walkers, wraithguard, and farseers) to balance it out, or they will be so expensive they won't be viewed as "competative" because you won't be able to take multiple maxed out units.

If the rumors of reduced points for Guardians hold up, don't expect some massive boost to the shurikats. Heck, you probably won't see any boost at all!

If anything, should Guardians stay the same points, they should be given the same shurikat as the DA. The DA would still have bladestorm and such, but the range should be the same (or have some other power that makes the range better). Anything better would require a points spike for Guardians and nobody wants that.

Eldar already have a ton of decent strength, decent range, multi shot weapons and anti-armour. They don't need more shooting, they need some improvements on their assault capabilities and specialized units. Banshees need something, Scorpions are just fine as they are, and Warpspiders and Swooping Hawks really need an overhaul.

Warp Spiders should have jet packs instead of Jump. They also need templates back. Maybe ST4, AP6 Rending. Swooping Hawks, heck I have no idea what to do with them. Banshees need the ability to assault out of a transport or something that boosts their number of attacks, or perhaps an invulnerable "dodge" save.

I wouldn't be shocked if one or more of the heavier armoured units such as Scorpions, Warpspiders, Jetbikes, and Dark Reapers lost a point of armour. Wraithguard are almost certainly going to lose at least 1 point of toughness, possibly 2. For a speedy finesse army, they have a lot of 3+ saves available to them and it seems like GW is pushing for a strongly defined style/role for each army with 6th, and Eldar haven't had that kind of focus in a long time.


You sir, are on crack.


I agree.

6000
6000

 Grey Templar wrote:
The Riptide can't be a giant death robot, its completely lacking a sword or massive chainsaw. All giant death robots have swords or massive chainsaws.
 
   
Made in us
Long-Range Land Speeder Pilot







Carthuun wrote:
 ClassicCarraway wrote:
There is just far too much wishlisting going on with the rumors for an army that is already pretty powerful with an extremely old codex. Thing is, any units that see big improvements are going to come at a cost, either other units will be heavily nerfed (war walkers, wraithguard, and farseers) to balance it out, or they will be so expensive they won't be viewed as "competative" because you won't be able to take multiple maxed out units.

If the rumors of reduced points for Guardians hold up, don't expect some massive boost to the shurikats. Heck, you probably won't see any boost at all!

If anything, should Guardians stay the same points, they should be given the same shurikat as the DA. The DA would still have bladestorm and such, but the range should be the same (or have some other power that makes the range better). Anything better would require a points spike for Guardians and nobody wants that.

Eldar already have a ton of decent strength, decent range, multi shot weapons and anti-armour. They don't need more shooting, they need some improvements on their assault capabilities and specialized units. Banshees need something, Scorpions are just fine as they are, and Warpspiders and Swooping Hawks really need an overhaul.

Warp Spiders should have jet packs instead of Jump. They also need templates back. Maybe ST4, AP6 Rending. Swooping Hawks, heck I have no idea what to do with them. Banshees need the ability to assault out of a transport or something that boosts their number of attacks, or perhaps an invulnerable "dodge" save.

I wouldn't be shocked if one or more of the heavier armoured units such as Scorpions, Warpspiders, Jetbikes, and Dark Reapers lost a point of armour. Wraithguard are almost certainly going to lose at least 1 point of toughness, possibly 2. For a speedy finesse army, they have a lot of 3+ saves available to them and it seems like GW is pushing for a strongly defined style/role for each army with 6th, and Eldar haven't had that kind of focus in a long time.


You sir, are on crack.


Why, because I am not believing GW is going to reduce Guardians to 6-7 points and give them Rending or Shredding Stormbolters? Or because of the possible chance of one of the 3+ save units losing a point of armour?
   
Made in us
Gimlet-Eyed Inquisitorial Acolyte




 ClassicCarraway wrote:
Carthuun wrote:
 ClassicCarraway wrote:
There is just far too much wishlisting going on with the rumors for an army that is already pretty powerful with an extremely old codex. Thing is, any units that see big improvements are going to come at a cost, either other units will be heavily nerfed (war walkers, wraithguard, and farseers) to balance it out, or they will be so expensive they won't be viewed as "competative" because you won't be able to take multiple maxed out units.

If the rumors of reduced points for Guardians hold up, don't expect some massive boost to the shurikats. Heck, you probably won't see any boost at all!

If anything, should Guardians stay the same points, they should be given the same shurikat as the DA. The DA would still have bladestorm and such, but the range should be the same (or have some other power that makes the range better). Anything better would require a points spike for Guardians and nobody wants that.

Eldar already have a ton of decent strength, decent range, multi shot weapons and anti-armour. They don't need more shooting, they need some improvements on their assault capabilities and specialized units. Banshees need something, Scorpions are just fine as they are, and Warpspiders and Swooping Hawks really need an overhaul.

Warp Spiders should have jet packs instead of Jump. They also need templates back. Maybe ST4, AP6 Rending. Swooping Hawks, heck I have no idea what to do with them. Banshees need the ability to assault out of a transport or something that boosts their number of attacks, or perhaps an invulnerable "dodge" save.

I wouldn't be shocked if one or more of the heavier armoured units such as Scorpions, Warpspiders, Jetbikes, and Dark Reapers lost a point of armour. Wraithguard are almost certainly going to lose at least 1 point of toughness, possibly 2. For a speedy finesse army, they have a lot of 3+ saves available to them and it seems like GW is pushing for a strongly defined style/role for each army with 6th, and Eldar haven't had that kind of focus in a long time.


You sir, are on crack.


Why, because I am not believing GW is going to reduce Guardians to 6-7 points and give them Rending or Shredding Stormbolters? Or because of the possible chance of one of the 3+ save units losing a point of armour?

No, because you obviously don't A: play eldar, B: know what they need, or C: know what "everybody else" wants.
If you played eldar, you would know they are bottom tier competetive with the newest tau release. As to all the wishlisting, deal with it, there are some genuinely good ideas in here.
And actually having guardians with terrible guns be cheap doesnt fit the fluff at all, so im sure quite a few people would be relieved to see guardians become what they are supposed to be.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




West Michigan, deep in Whitebread, USA

Making Guardians better for their points (i.e. a better weapon) is just as balanced as keeping them the same but with a cheaper price tag. Eldar shouldn't be an army with cheap disposable troops. They are supposed to be the opposite of Imperial Guard.




"By this point I'm convinced 100% that every single race in the 40k universe have somehow tapped into the ork ability to just have their tech work because they think it should."  
   
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Purveyor of Heresy






Mostly New England now. Finally.

Keep it civil, folks. There are better ways to disagree with someone than to say that they consume crystallized cocaine.


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Made in us
Fresh-Faced New User





 ClassicCarraway wrote:
Spoiler:
Carthuun wrote:
 ClassicCarraway wrote:
There is just far too much wishlisting going on with the rumors for an army that is already pretty powerful with an extremely old codex. Thing is, any units that see big improvements are going to come at a cost, either other units will be heavily nerfed (war walkers, wraithguard, and farseers) to balance it out, or they will be so expensive they won't be viewed as "competative" because you won't be able to take multiple maxed out units.

If the rumors of reduced points for Guardians hold up, don't expect some massive boost to the shurikats. Heck, you probably won't see any boost at all!

If anything, should Guardians stay the same points, they should be given the same shurikat as the DA. The DA would still have bladestorm and such, but the range should be the same (or have some other power that makes the range better). Anything better would require a points spike for Guardians and nobody wants that.

Eldar already have a ton of decent strength, decent range, multi shot weapons and anti-armour. They don't need more shooting, they need some improvements on their assault capabilities and specialized units. Banshees need something, Scorpions are just fine as they are, and Warpspiders and Swooping Hawks really need an overhaul.

Warp Spiders should have jet packs instead of Jump. They also need templates back. Maybe ST4, AP6 Rending. Swooping Hawks, heck I have no idea what to do with them. Banshees need the ability to assault out of a transport or something that boosts their number of attacks, or perhaps an invulnerable "dodge" save.

I wouldn't be shocked if one or more of the heavier armoured units such as Scorpions, Warpspiders, Jetbikes, and Dark Reapers lost a point of armour. Wraithguard are almost certainly going to lose at least 1 point of toughness, possibly 2. For a speedy finesse army, they have a lot of 3+ saves available to them and it seems like GW is pushing for a strongly defined style/role for each army with 6th, and Eldar haven't had that kind of focus in a long time.


You sir, are on crack.


Why, because I am not believing GW is going to reduce Guardians to 6-7 points and give them Rending or Shredding Stormbolters? Or because of the possible chance of one of the 3+ save units losing a point of armour?


I do apologize.

I see it as completely reasonable that guardians would get a 1 point drop along with a better shuriken weapon. I don't believe they'll have rending or shred, but I will agree that matching the base shuriken catapult to the DA is what should happen at bare minimum.. Have you looked at Kabalite Warriors? They're so much better than a guardian it's silly, and they're only 1 point more than guardians right now.

As for Warp Spiders, staying as jump meshes better with their fluff, unless you're going to give them a 2d6" in the movement phase. While the template would be awesome to get back, it would severely hinder their shooting from deep strike.

The last thing is that I think you're exaggerating when you say "pretty powerful" about the codex. The only thing in the entire codex that would qualify is Runes of Warding. War Walkers are good, but they're not something to be heavily nerfed, seeing as they're AV10 walkers with BS3. Wraithguard are slow AND expensive with ultra short-ranged, one shot, weaponry. It's only after you buff the group with fortune, conceal, and being lead by The Baron do they become good. Finally, Farseers are currently the best HQ for Eldar, I don't think there is any debate to that. Why? Because everything else is pretty mediocre. I don't know point costs for librarians or sorcerers, but would you consider them in need of a nerf?

The Eldar codex is ancient and I'm very excited to see what we have in store. After seeing how Tau were treated, I think you're underestimating what the Eldar will be getting.


   
Made in us
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Neronoxx wrote:
 ClassicCarraway wrote:
Carthuun wrote:
 ClassicCarraway wrote:
There is just far too much wishlisting going on with the rumors for an army that is already pretty powerful with an extremely old codex. Thing is, any units that see big improvements are going to come at a cost, either other units will be heavily nerfed (war walkers, wraithguard, and farseers) to balance it out, or they will be so expensive they won't be viewed as "competative" because you won't be able to take multiple maxed out units.

If the rumors of reduced points for Guardians hold up, don't expect some massive boost to the shurikats. Heck, you probably won't see any boost at all!

If anything, should Guardians stay the same points, they should be given the same shurikat as the DA. The DA would still have bladestorm and such, but the range should be the same (or have some other power that makes the range better). Anything better would require a points spike for Guardians and nobody wants that.

Eldar already have a ton of decent strength, decent range, multi shot weapons and anti-armour. They don't need more shooting, they need some improvements on their assault capabilities and specialized units. Banshees need something, Scorpions are just fine as they are, and Warpspiders and Swooping Hawks really need an overhaul.

Warp Spiders should have jet packs instead of Jump. They also need templates back. Maybe ST4, AP6 Rending. Swooping Hawks, heck I have no idea what to do with them. Banshees need the ability to assault out of a transport or something that boosts their number of attacks, or perhaps an invulnerable "dodge" save.

I wouldn't be shocked if one or more of the heavier armoured units such as Scorpions, Warpspiders, Jetbikes, and Dark Reapers lost a point of armour. Wraithguard are almost certainly going to lose at least 1 point of toughness, possibly 2. For a speedy finesse army, they have a lot of 3+ saves available to them and it seems like GW is pushing for a strongly defined style/role for each army with 6th, and Eldar haven't had that kind of focus in a long time.


You sir, are on crack.


Why, because I am not believing GW is going to reduce Guardians to 6-7 points and give them Rending or Shredding Stormbolters? Or because of the possible chance of one of the 3+ save units losing a point of armour?

No, because you obviously don't A: play eldar, B: know what they need, or C: know what "everybody else" wants.
If you played eldar, you would know they are bottom tier competetive with the newest tau release. As to all the wishlisting, deal with it, there are some genuinely good ideas in here.
And actually having guardians with terrible guns be cheap doesnt fit the fluff at all, so im sure quite a few people would be relieved to see guardians become what they are supposed to be.


Actually, one of my best friends plays Eldar, and I've faced him many, many, many times. The Eldar players keep clamoring about what Eldar "need" without actually taking into consideration that most of their units work just fine, and some of them are incredibly powerful. Guardians are basic troops, not elite units, and it is wishlisting to expect them to be armed with rending stormbolters standard issue, at a points reduction, no matter how you look at it.

To me, what Eldar "need" is for more of their unique aspect units to be unique again (ie, Warpspiders not just being more Strength 6 shots, Scorpions not being infiltrating Assault Marines) and for them to have a more focused identity that fits with the fluff. What everybody (ie, Eldar players) wants has no bearing on things. Chaos Daemon players want bloodletters and bloodcrushers with armour saves worth a damn, and to be rid of the Warpflame rule for Tzeentch units. Chaos Marine players wanted a laundry list of things before their codex came out, and they got none of it. DA and Tau players want fliers that are not pitifully under-armed in comparison to other armies. The new way of thinking for GW seems to be "every unit viable", but that doesn't mean "every unit OP", which, I'm sorry, but 6 point Guardians with rending stormbolters is a touch OP.

What's wrong with giving Guardians the same Shurikat that DA have? 18" Assault 2 is pretty nice for an army that is supposed to be very mobile. Or maybe just make them Rapid Fire and be done with it. Remember, those same things will be on jetbikes as well. Why does it HAVE to be a rending stormbolter in order to be considered good? Lets not forget the nice, mobile heavy weapons platforms Guardian squads get. Eldar are going to have a ton of options once the new book comes out, and I just don't see Guardians really getting a big upgrade. I foresee Aspect Warriors getting the upgrades, as that's where GW is going to want the focus on (especially if new multi unit plastic kits are part of the deal)
   
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Pittsburgh, PA

Am I the only one that absolutely does not want to see templates on Warp Spiders? That would inevitably mean they get a drop in strength, and I think it would hinder their role as a harassing unit. They'd lose effectiveness vs. vehicles, which is what they excel at now with deep striking, and lose a bit of range, making them more reliant on their assault jump to keep out of trouble, and making it less likely that they all even get to shoot. The one way I'd be happy about them getting templates is if they got a rule similar to the Night Spinner.

I think Guardians are at a good price where they are, they just need a bit of a boost.Up the range on a catapult by 6", give them one heavy weapon per 5 guys, and they're good to go, especially with new Warlock options.

Honestly, Banshees don't need any changes, as long as the Wave Serpent gets some sort of assault vehicle upgrade. They're fine how they are for the job they're supposed to do, it's their support systems that are lacking.

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Auckland, New Zealand

 AegisGrimm wrote:
I think banshee masks should make it so the unit they charge doesn't get overwatch. Seems a good 6th edition answer to what they do in the fluff. You get stunned while they come in and kill you.


That would actually be a sweet way to update them for 6th edition. Too many assault units are defined by how effectively they can hit the enemy, the Banshee Mask was always about how it made enemies defenseless in the face of being assaulted.



Oooo, units charged by Banshees can't overwatch, Banshee masks count as Assault Grenades. Would be splendid I imagine!
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




West Michigan, deep in Whitebread, USA

-Catapult 18" range
-Avenger Catapult 24" range
-Shuriken Cannon 36" range

Wouldn't need anything else changed about them, IMHO. That simple change would appropriately but not over-overpoweringly buff Guardians, Dire Avengers, Jetbikes/Shrieker Jetbikes/Shining Spears, Vypers, War-Walkers, Wraithlords and all the twin-linked Catapults on the tanks. I'd love it.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/05/15 02:28:20




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Pulsating Possessed Space Marine of Slaanesh





Auckland, New Zealand

 MandalorynOranj wrote:
Am I the only one that absolutely does not want to see templates on Warp Spiders? That would inevitably mean they get a drop in strength, and I think it would hinder their role as a harassing unit. They'd lose effectiveness vs. vehicles, which is what they excel at now with deep striking, and lose a bit of range, making them more reliant on their assault jump to keep out of trouble, and making it less likely that they all even get to shoot. The one way I'd be happy about them getting templates is if they got a rule similar to the Night Spinner.


I'm not saying your wrong about any of this, but (speaking fluffwise) aren't the webs the Spiders fire supposed to be really good at killing infantry? Therefore, if they are considered perfect vehicle hunters, somethings gone wrong. Fire Dragons are supposed to hunt vehicles aren't they?
   
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Being older when it comes to being a soldier though usually does mean you're better - an eldar soldier has probably been in combat for more hours than many humans and some space marines have even been alive! With that comes great competence at whatever task you've dedicated yourself to - be it flying around throwing bombs everywhere or sneaking up and going ape on stuff.

Honestly, I think most eldar ought to be ws5/bs5. In addition to a mild range buff on shuriken weaponry, and a change to codex psychic powers (maybe Guide becomes ignore cover?) this could make for a very elite army in which many units could actually go up in cost.
   
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Lord of the Blood Angels





Steelcity

uberjoras wrote:
Being older when it comes to being a soldier though usually does mean you're better - an eldar soldier has probably been in combat for more hours than many humans and some space marines have even been alive! With that comes great competence at whatever task you've dedicated yourself to - be it flying around throwing bombs everywhere or sneaking up and going ape on stuff.

Honestly, I think most eldar ought to be ws5/bs5. In addition to a mild range buff on shuriken weaponry, and a change to codex psychic powers (maybe Guide becomes ignore cover?) this could make for a very elite army in which many units could actually go up in cost.


Nope! The Eldar are a DYING race which means they only send the most untrained, under equipped civilian soldiers (guardians) to die in battle. This strategy helps the Eldar race endure of course. I've been playing my Eldar since for around 17 years and I still have yet to see GW create a non-absurd reason why they go into battle with flimsy armor and gear as opposed to actually using their highly advanced technology to protect them (or gasp.. automate combat with more wraith-type warriors or robots of some type) .. I'd settle for the technology to illuminate distant objects or in layman's terms.. lights

The Eldar are surprisingly low-tech and psychically weak compared to most other armies. Go figure.


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Longtime Dakkanaut



New Zealand

uberjoras wrote:
Being older when it comes to being a soldier though usually does mean you're better - an eldar soldier has probably been in combat for more hours than many humans and some space marines have even been alive! With that comes great competence at whatever task you've dedicated yourself to - be it flying around throwing bombs everywhere or sneaking up and going ape on stuff.

Honestly, I think most eldar ought to be ws5/bs5. In addition to a mild range buff on shuriken weaponry, and a change to codex psychic powers (maybe Guide becomes ignore cover?) this could make for a very elite army in which many units could actually go up in cost.


Depends on which Eldar you mean tbh. Guardians are clearly going to be worse stat wise than a Marine because they have no real training but it wouldn't be hard to justify the Eldar Assault Aspects getting WS5 (but BS3 since that's how Aspects/Paths work, focus on a single discipline). Eldar are roughly the equivilant of High Elves in Fantasy, highly elite, specialised, well equipped with powerful magic (or psychic ability). None of the Eldar Aspects really reflect this though and it would be a major shift to see an army of largely WS5 assualt units and BS5 shooty units.
   
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Fixture of Dakka





 Kid_Kyoto wrote:

But back in the day Guardians could choose lasguns instead for ranged punch.

Buh? At no point when Guardians had the option for lasguns were lasguns anything but objectively inferior to Shuriken Catapults.

Catapults had the same range, better to hit modifiers, better strength, better save modifier, and more shots.

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