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They where specifying for the grey knights allowing the Deathwing to DS turn 1, as far as i can tell.

I think they were referring to formation rules. But this does call into question using Belial with Draigo's Gate.

So me and the gaming buddy are having a debate regarding the deathwing strike force/ redemption force rulings. Rules for both say that units that can be placed in deep strike reserve must do so. Units that don't have deep strike must be placed in standard reserves.
So can a unit of terminators in a land raider dedicated transport opt out of being forced to deep strike out of it??

MonumentOfRibs wrote:
So me and the gaming buddy are having a debate regarding the deathwing strike force/ redemption force rulings. Rules for both say that units that can be placed in deep strike reserve must do so. Units that don't have deep strike must be placed in standard reserves.
So can a unit of terminators in a land raider dedicated transport opt out of being forced to deep strike out of it??

The way it's worded and the implication for the FAQ is that the squad MUST Deep Strike while the Land Raider drives on.

Wow, even GW says you can't take Ravenwing/Deathwing detachments. I wish they'd give an explanation as to why something that was explicitly a feature of the codex up until the 7th edition book was hard ruled out of existence.

You can take Ravenwing/Deathwing just fine. Just don't take flyers as part of your Ravenwing Strike Force. If you want to take a fleyr, you can take them in a Flyer Wing or the Ravenwing Silence Squadron or Ravenwing Abductor Squadron. Your Ravenwing can start on the board without issue.

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
You can take Ravenwing/Deathwing just fine. Just don't take flyers as part of your Ravenwing Strike Force. If you want to take a fleyr, you can take them in a Flyer Wing or the Ravenwing Silence Squadron or Ravenwing Abductor Squadron. Your Ravenwing can start on the board without issue.

Actually, you need to edit that and say you can take Ravenwing just fine.

They even took the trouble to specifically edit out any possibility of playing a Deathwing detachment with a venerable dreadnought, and your land raiders have to be taken in reserve.

Even then, I'm pretty sure the whole Ravenwing flyer meaning you have to take the ENTIRE formation in reserve (which is just...impossibly stupid) is a new rule.

Venerable Dreadnoughts don't lose the Drop Pod Assault rule in the Deathwing Strike Force. So Deathwing still works just fine.

 TedNugent wrote:
Wow, even GW says you can't take Ravenwing/Deathwing detachments. I wish they'd give an explanation as to why something that was explicitly a feature of the codex up until the 7th edition book was hard ruled out of existence.

Sacrificed a tiny bit of fluff for better game balance.

There is nothing really balanced, or fun, about having nothing on the board for turn 1

All I can say is if you need a win, fine have your stupid win. Now you are a MAN. So since you had your win, now lets play for fun and my Deathwing will not come on the board until turn 2.

Now if you take your win and will not play for fun, that speaks more of your character and who you really are.

Davor wrote:
All I can say is if you need a win, fine have your stupid win. Now you are a MAN. So since you had your win, now lets play for fun and my Deathwing will not come on the board until turn 2.

Now if you take your win and will not play for fun, that speaks more of your character and who you really are.

Right, so If I want to play by the rules that means I'm not a man? Furthermore, why do I need to be a man to play you? Why does your ego have to come into play in a game of toy soldiers? Furthermore, why does your ego come into play while derogatorily stating that if your opponent doesn't allow you to cheat that they don't possess the neccessary qualifications to play you? What makes playing you so worth not playing by the rules?

As an honorable player, I abide by all the rules. Not just the ones that benefit me. And when they don't work in my favor, I don't belittle my opponent - that's called being a good sport. I also don't make assumptions of my opponent's integrity when they decide they want to win in a game that has a clear set victory condition.

I agree, rules are rules, thats the point of many of the threads on dakka. Run a CAD and put something on the board. hide it in terrain, and then bam, your army comes in turn 2 and you get to play it by the rules.

 redleger wrote:
I agree, rules are rules, thats the point of many of the threads on dakka. Run a CAD and put something on the board. hide it in terrain, and then bam, your army comes in turn 2 and you get to play it by the rules.

That's not deathwing army though. Surprise surprise people can be more interested than just winning and want to field cool armies you can find in fluff. Deathwing is one of the iconic armies that's hardly broken. Surprise surprise some people want to field it eventhough it sucks even if they would all come automatically on turn 1. But it's still cool.

When I want to field deathwing I field deathwing and don't dilute it by something as stupid as taking something non-deathwing. That's fine if you don't want to play deathwing. But when you play deathwing that means terminators, land raiders and dreadnoughts only. Period. Anything else isn't deathwing army.

I want to play with Following Fire on my Shuriken Catapults too, but surprisingly few people are willing to allow that. I don't insult them over it either.

Except, fluff wise, the Deathwing only teleport in after the Ravenwing are in place to set Teleport Homers. They very rarily go in by themselves.

So how would taking a few squads of bikes be non fluffy or breaking the army?

tneva82 wrote:

 redleger wrote:
I agree, rules are rules, thats the point of many of the threads on dakka. Run a CAD and put something on the board. hide it in terrain, and then bam, your army comes in turn 2 and you get to play it by the rules.

That's not deathwing army though. Surprise surprise people can be more interested than just winning and want to field cool armies you can find in fluff. Deathwing is one of the iconic armies that's hardly broken. Surprise surprise some people want to field it eventhough it sucks even if they would all come automatically on turn 1. But it's still cool.

When I want to field deathwing I field deathwing and don't dilute it by something as stupid as taking something non-deathwing. That's fine if you don't want to play deathwing. But when you play deathwing that means terminators, land raiders and dreadnoughts only. Period. Anything else isn't deathwing army.

1) You can bring Dreadnaughts in Drop Pods and half rounded up will come in turn 1.
2) You could play Unbound, bring a unit of Deathwing in a Land Raider, and start them on the table turn 1.

Either way and you won't lose. Congrats, there's no more reason to freaking insult people because your toys changed.

Yeah this "I WANNA PLAY MY 3RD ED DEATHWING ARMY" crying is dumb.

Deathwing are a company, they have support outside of the first company. Deal with it.

They Nerfed Deathwing, Davox. Grow a pair.

 sfshilo wrote:
Yeah this "I WANNA PLAY MY 3RD ED DEATHWING ARMY" crying is dumb.

Deathwing are a company, they have support outside of the first company. Deal with it.

Up until the 7th edition book, Deathwing could be an army. Yeah they're a company, but a strikeforce could be sent in to deal with traitors and hunt the Fallen.

I was super pissed when 7th came out and ruined it, he's not the only one.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 JimOnMars wrote:
They Nerfed Deathwing, Davox. Grow a pair.

They nerfed an already underpowered army, but left Ravenwing alone. Right.

Hi,

Is it too late to post a question on certain Codex. I want to be sure to post in the correct place.

I would like to ask about something in regards to the Harlequin dex.

Neronoxx wrote:

Davor wrote:
All I can say is if you need a win, fine have your stupid win. Now you are a MAN. So since you had your win, now lets play for fun and my Deathwing will not come on the board until turn 2.

Now if you take your win and will not play for fun, that speaks more of your character and who you really are.

Right, so If I want to play by the rules that means I'm not a man? Furthermore, why do I need to be a man to play you? Why does your ego have to come into play in a game of toy soldiers? Furthermore, why does your ego come into play while derogatorily stating that if your opponent doesn't allow you to cheat that they don't possess the neccessary qualifications to play you? What makes playing you so worth not playing by the rules?

As an honorable player, I abide by all the rules. Not just the ones that benefit me. And when they don't work in my favor, I don't belittle my opponent - that's called being a good sport. I also don't make assumptions of my opponent's integrity when they decide they want to win in a game that has a clear set victory condition.

Riiiigggggghhhhhhttttttt. I want to play for fun with a fluffy army and me asking to not use one rule and you call me cheating. Right there speaks Volumes about you. Where is my ego in here? I haven't won a 40K game yet in my life. Now who is derogatorily saying someone is cheating when the rules clearly say speak to your opponent and you can change any rule you like. To me that right there speaks on who you are when it comes down to playing plastic toy soldiers.

You do know that the game is not written properly. You know the game is not very well balanced and you claim with honour that you play by the rules? How is that honourable? Knowing to play a game that is imbalanced poorly worded, poorly written, different edition codices and you will not let people tweak the rules. Is that honour or "PLAY MY WAY"?

Again, I said you have won your first game. I didn't complain, I didn't whine. You have won. So why not play a second game for fun now and tweak the rules a bit so some people can play how they want. I will play your way the first time, and have stuff on the table and play a game your way, then whow about after that game you can play my way the second time but with some tweaked rules?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Skerr wrote:
Hi,

Is it too late to post a question on certain Codex. I want to be sure to post in the correct place.

I would like to ask about something in regards to the Harlequin dex.

If it's a question Ask in the general 40K section unless it's a rumour about something upcoming with the Harlequin dex. The mods frown when people ask questions in the News and Rumours section.

 sfshilo wrote:
Yeah this "I WANNA PLAY MY 3RD ED DEATHWING ARMY" crying is dumb.

You know what's dumb? Insulting other users over how you feel they should be playing with their toy soldiers.

TONE IT DOWN IN HERE.

 Skerr wrote:
Hi,

Is it too late to post a question on certain Codex. I want to be sure to post in the correct place.

I would like to ask about something in regards to the Harlequin dex.

On the facebook page? Yes. You're going to have to wait until they drop the codex faq to ask questions there, though there is no guarantee you will get an answer or that it will be added to the final version.

@Roknar,

I will be on the look out, thanks!

 jreilly89 wrote:
Up until the 7th edition book, Deathwing could be an army. Yeah they're a company, but a strikeforce could be sent in to deal with traitors and hunt the Fallen.

Fluffwise, the Deathwing don't do the hunting. That's the task of the Ravenwing, to find and flush out the Fallen for the Deathwing to then either capture or kill. If anything, the rules finally match the fluff.

 adamsouza wrote:

 TedNugent wrote:
Wow, even GW says you can't take Ravenwing/Deathwing detachments. I wish they'd give an explanation as to why something that was explicitly a feature of the codex up until the 7th edition book was hard ruled out of existence.

Sacrificed a tiny bit of fluff for better game balance.

There is nothing really balanced, or fun, about having nothing on the board for turn 1

What are you talking about? Deathwing Assault in the 6th edition codex explicitly says that you can deep strike your terminators on turn 1.

So the change in the 7th edition was to make you:
A) unable to deep strike Terminators on turn 1
B) unable to deploy terminators in your deployment zone during the deployment phase when using the Deathwing formation

So it's literally the exact opposite of what you just said.

 Ghaz wrote:

 jreilly89 wrote:
Up until the 7th edition book, Deathwing could be an army. Yeah they're a company, but a strikeforce could be sent in to deal with traitors and hunt the Fallen.

Fluffwise, the Deathwing don't do the hunting. That's the task of the Ravenwing, to find and flush out the Fallen for the Deathwing to then either capture or kill. If anything, the rules finally match the fluff.

Except, whenever you read the fluff in the codex, it says on at least two separate occasions that the entire Deathwing of the Dark Angels (e.g. 100 Terminators) was deployed, on one of the two occasions it specifically states that the entire Dark Angels Chapter and a successor chapter deployed "nigh on 200 terminators" for an assault on a fortress.

 sfshilo wrote:
Yeah this "I WANNA PLAY MY 3RD ED DEATHWING ARMY" crying is dumb.

Did you mean 6th edition Deathwing Army since Belial made Deathwing Terminator squads troop choices in the 6th edition codex?

 TedNugent wrote:

 Ghaz wrote:

 jreilly89 wrote:
Up until the 7th edition book, Deathwing could be an army. Yeah they're a company, but a strikeforce could be sent in to deal with traitors and hunt the Fallen.

Fluffwise, the Deathwing don't do the hunting. That's the task of the Ravenwing, to find and flush out the Fallen for the Deathwing to then either capture or kill. If anything, the rules finally match the fluff.

Except, whenever you read the fluff in the codex, it says on at least two separate occasions that the entire Deathwing of the Dark Angels (e.g. 100 Terminators) was deployed, on one of the two occasions it specifically states that the entire Dark Angels Chapter and a successor chapter deployed "nigh on 200 terminators" for an assault on a fortress.

Two occasions in ten millennia. That's ten thousand years. I'll let you play Deathwing by themselves once in every five thousand games. The rest of the time you can play according to the fluff instead of the two exceptions.

 Ghaz wrote:

 TedNugent wrote:

 Ghaz wrote:

 jreilly89 wrote:
Up until the 7th edition book, Deathwing could be an army. Yeah they're a company, but a strikeforce could be sent in to deal with traitors and hunt the Fallen.

Fluffwise, the Deathwing don't do the hunting. That's the task of the Ravenwing, to find and flush out the Fallen for the Deathwing to then either capture or kill. If anything, the rules finally match the fluff.

Except, whenever you read the fluff in the codex, it says on at least two separate occasions that the entire Deathwing of the Dark Angels (e.g. 100 Terminators) was deployed, on one of the two occasions it specifically states that the entire Dark Angels Chapter and a successor chapter deployed "nigh on 200 terminators" for an assault on a fortress.

Two occasions in ten millennia. That's ten thousand years. I'll let you play Deathwing by themselves once in every five thousand games. The rest of the time you can play according to the fluff instead of the two exceptions.

Thanks, that's very thoughtful of you. By the way, I'm curious, how many times does the typical 1,000 man Chapter get deployed compared to the trillions of imperial guard soldiers?

 TedNugent wrote:

 adamsouza wrote:

 TedNugent wrote:
Wow, even GW says you can't take Ravenwing/Deathwing detachments. I wish they'd give an explanation as to why something that was explicitly a feature of the codex up until the 7th edition book was hard ruled out of existence.

Sacrificed a tiny bit of fluff for better game balance.
There is nothing really balanced, or fun, about having nothing on the board for turn 1

What are you talking about? Deathwing Assault in the 6th edition codex explicitly says that you can deep strike your terminators on turn 1.

Let me clarify that statement: There is nothing really balanced or fun, for your opponent, about you having nothing on the board for your opponent's turn 1.

 adamsouza wrote:

Let me clarify that statement: There is nothing really balanced or fun, for your opponent, about you having nothing on the board for your opponent's turn 1.

Great! So is the drop pod nerf coming?

I'm really confused you - are you suggesting that storm bolter alpha strikes are over the top or something?