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General_K wrote:wait- so people actually *use* Thorek? I mean, I *have" the model...but I remember I never was all that impressed playing against Thorek - he can't move, his guards are nothing - (and I always just cast Vaul's unmaking (I play HE as well) on him and destroyed his stupid armour and weapon so I could kill him no problem.) The only point ot Thorek was striking the anvil to make all dwarves cause fear (admittedly neat, and if playing agianst undead, or daemons, maybe useful, but with Ld9, it's not like I'm going ot be failing leadersihp tests anytime soon). I just don't see the use in Thorek, at all.

If that's what you're thinking about Thorek or have seen him used in that way, THEN YOU ARE DOING IT WRONG.

I've played Dwarfs (with and without Anvil) fairly extensively. I've played against Thorek exactly once. It is the most annoying game you could possibly play.

If you were wondering, you deploy him in a wood or behind a hill/building/etc to make him hard (if not impossible) to target with most spells/shooting/charges/etc. Then you hit the "slow stuff down and do 2D6 S4 hits to D3 units" per turn. Maybe, MAYBE, you use him to charge a block, but 99% of the time he's just slowing down stuff, inflicting damage, and then you just keep shooting.

I've had more fun playing against the War Alter + 4 Cannons + 2 Steam Tank lists than I had against playing Thorek.

General_K wrote:wait- so people actually *use* Thorek? I mean, I *have" the model...but I remember I never was all that impressed playing against Thorek - he can't move, his guards are nothing - (and I always just cast Vaul's unmaking (I play HE as well) on him and destroyed his stupid armour and weapon so I could kill him no problem.) The only point ot Thorek was striking the anvil to make all dwarves cause fear (admittedly neat, and if playing agianst undead, or daemons, maybe useful, but with Ld9, it's not like I'm going ot be failing leadersihp tests anytime soon). I just don't see the use in Thorek, at all.

It's mostly because he can strike Ancient Power on a re-rollable 3+. I, personally, don't like the Anvil at all because it's a pseudo-magical effect that can't be dispelled. No other unit in the game (barring the new Engine of the Gods) has the kind of power the Anvil does. Having the ability to make a unit move, or stop an enemy unit from moving, on a simple 2+ is rather powerful. I much preferred the 6th edition version. But adding Thorek into that equation unbalances things, in my opinion, and as such, I will NOT play against him in the future.

WaltF4 wrote:Manfred von Drakken,

Could you please post an example of your Empire army list and a rough outline of a Dwarf army list that you feel can realistically compete against it as well as common VC, DoC, and Elf army lists without becoming a gun line? The point value, game format, and definition of gun line can be what ever you feel appropriate. Let "realistically compete" mean "50% chance to win a game without unusual luck or blunders by either player."

The question is open to anyone else and their choice of army as well.

When I say gunline, I'm talking about Runelord (with or without Anvil, but usually with), Runesmiths/Engineers, Thunderers, and war machines.

Here's what I typically field for my Empire:

General
BSB
Priest
Wizard
2 Swordsmen each with 2 FC detachments
2 Handgunners
Knights
Pistoliers
3-4 War machines

Here's a rough draft for a Dwarf list that can up to it:

Lord
BSB
Runesmith
Longbeards
2 Warriors
Thunderers
Gyrocopter
2 Bolt Throwers
Grudge Thrower
min-sized Miners
10-man block of Hammerers

Both sides will be shooting the crap out of each other, but the Dwarf shooting will be a bit more reliable and impactful. Empire will start a mobility advantage, but if the Knights don't break whatever they charge on the first turn, they're done. Once the blocks get into each other, it's pure carnage: the FC might negate ranks, but will get mowed down by superior troops that actually have armor.

As far as dealing with VC and DoC, I don't have a lot of experience with those books (haven't even played against the DoC book yet). But the Dwarves can certainly take adavantage of superior troops and anti-fear/terror runes and rules, plus Runesmiths, to try to shut down VC's; kill the magic and they go down pretty hard.

Elves are a different story, I'll admit. My DE list of late (lots of big monsters) will eat Dwarves. But Elves come in so many varieties that it's hard to say, 'Do this to win'.

Nothing Dwarfs can really do will shut down a VC Magic Spam list.

They have little to no answer to Wraiths, aside from the Anvil, and D6 S4 per turn isn't going to be enough (they get healed way too fast).

The issue with Wraiths, or other units (bats, dogs), is that they can quickly hunt down Dwarf Warmachines & missile troops.

Kill Dwarf support units, then back off and get table quarters for more points.

Unless of course the Dwarf player dared to take a normal unit of Warriors (who thus can't be immune to Fear & Terror), they can get easily outflanked (yay spammed movement magic) and then auto-break.

Alphus wrote:
Dwarf Lord
GW
MR of steel
2xrune of stone
mr of spite

My bad. prolly will run shieldbearers from now on then. Any ideas as to converting one?

Sorry to go off-topic but;

Use green stuff to make a convex circle (shaping it by using the bottom of a pop can works)

Break the arms of two rank and file troopers and point them upwards (one of them will require some extra work because all of the models in the dwarf army are right handed, so you will have to shape the arm of the left-handed dwarf a little more intricately as to not make it look weird) when you're happy with the result shave down the top of the hands so that they make a flat surface

Cut the convex green stuff into desired size and glue it onto of the flattened out hands
Glue lord on top of the shield (no base of course) and you're done, this is how i made mine and it turned out great!

i play a hard infantry force. lots of large solid blocks of warriors and iron breakers., with only a few cannon and handguns sprinkled in, and i have some very fun and rewarding games with them.

dwarfs arent that bad, the army was written well, and is true to the fluff.

the OP wanted to add more guns and technology.
per dwarf fluff, most drawfs, and even many engineers are warry of "newer" tried and true weapons like the organ gun and gyrocopter.

the dwarfs are traditionalists, "what was good for my father is good for me."

thats not to say that they wont build new things, just that they wont be trusted on the battlefield

"Dwarf army closer to fluff" sounds to me like the Dwarf player should have to take 'drunk' tests.

The Dwarf list is fine, IMHO. Though somewhat dependent on the Anvil....



Now Chaos Dwarves were called master engineers. We get 2 war machines. Whoop De! (To get a little off topic)

what is the use of BSB sorry i am new



Automatically Appended Next Post:
i am trying a new strategie to protect thorek because when the enemy sees him he is the prime target i during a 3000 pt. match set him in the far back put 15 hammers with him, a dragon slayer, runsmith, and thane the hammers have the master rune of grungi for a 5+ ward save.

Try Putting Him in a Corner and Stretching a Line of Slayers in front of him form table edge to table edge.

If the Dwarves have any problems, it's the fact they are not part of the current power creep.