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Tri wrote:

AgeOfEgos wrote:Eh, if I played Daemonhunters I would play the Crusader variant every time (Not unlike vanilla Marines, although for different reasons). Can the DH players explain why they prefer the vanilla Raider over their Crusader?

Its simple the only place they can get any anti tank weapons is in the Heavy support section and that is only really two choices a vanilla LR or a Dreadnought

Eh, or a Crusader that can;

Move 12 every turn and fire it's MM at an E tank and it's Hurricane Bolters at enemy infantry
Pop DH smoke which reduces all penetrating hits to glances that turn

*Shrug*, seems like a hell of a deal to me

Bit of a difference between having a range 48" anti tank gun and a range 12" anti-tank gun (meltas only really work within half range)

Tri wrote:Bit of a difference between having a range 48" anti tank gun and a range 12" anti-tank gun (meltas only really work within half range)

Crusader moves 12 + 12 = 24 inch 2d6 pen +1 damage range. Or 36 inch 1d6 + 1 Damage Chart range. Las Cannons are 'ok' with the new damage charts but in most cases it's better to have MM...even outside of 2d6 range. Example against Chimera;

Las Cannon hits:
50% chance to pen
33% chance to wreck/explode

MM hit:
33% chance to pen
50% chance to wreck/explode

MM can also wreck on a glance, whereas a Las Cannon cannot. Las Cannons do have range on MM but this is somewhat mitigated by a Crusader that can move 12" a turn and still take a shot (While lighting up enemy infantry at the same time). Add in super smoke and I would consider it a done deal. I will admit that against certain Eldar mech, Speeders or Necron Lith spam the las cannon has it's benefits.

I am a big fan of the crusader and never run Phobos pattern anymore. The crusader is the best assault vehicle in the game hands down. It always has been.

G

I know a list was posted for an Inquisitorial army with three land raiders, what would a decent 1500pt marine in land raider list look like??

Thanks again,
Chappy P!

I'm a GK player. The only issue I have with the GK LRC is that I have no choice but to close in order for it to be useful. At least with a GHLR, it can sit back if needed or close if needed; a LRC does not have that option.

I have the exact same issue with the LRR, and I have played GK's with LRR's quite extensively in order to test them out. Redeemers, like Crusaders, have no choice but to close in order to be useful which limits their utility in a pure GK list (GK's need to stay flexible in a tournament environment, as our options are few and therefore need to be effective in all games).

That said, I'd found that unless I'm intending to assault with my GKT's, a GHLR is a better buy than a LRC in most games. Where the GK LRC shines is versus non-'Nid horde armies, and that is about it.

SJ

Looks like this thread has finally run it's course.

G

The crusader is the best assault vehicle in the game hands down. It always has been.

I assume you say so because of the capacity?

Cause I'd take Flamestorms over Hurricane Bolters any day...

Capacity is the big reason IMO. Having a more guys rather than fewer definitely helps in the assault, and there's a big difference between 12 Blood Claws and 16 Blood Claws.

Deadshane1 wrote:...What I would ask Sourclams, is, if you have such a problem with the views forwarded here, what is YOUR opinion on how best to run a Standard Land Raider? If your point is simply..."Don't"...then I fail to understand what your objective is in this thread.

This thread is about how to run a LR effectively, maybe not in a Tier 1 list. Maybe simply because one likes the model. Maybe because you're trying to prove something to yourself, who knows? I'm not necessarily targetting the winningest players on the circuit with this tactica. Maybe there are some people out there that could use some help with this army selection on how to run it most effectively.

This highlights the biggest problem with many people on gaming forums. There seems to be a mentality that you're only allowed to post on internet forums if you're hoping to achieve the most WAAC tournament list ever and that "casuals" have no business on the internet (except maybe the painting and modelling forum). I would suggest that the majority of gamers play the majority of their games in a non-tournament setting. Surely a majority of the majority is allowed to share thoughts and ideas too?
I have been playing 40K for about 20 years and have never played in a tournament, but I'm still interested in reading other people's thoughts and ideas, developing new tactics, considering new concepts and generally sharing my experiences. I'm still looking for thoughts on how I can field Sky Claws more effectively, besides the "don't" - which I've already heard.

@karlosovi Look at the date of the post above you. Now look at the date of your post. Surprised?

sourclams wrote:You've created a good Tactica on how to keep it alive, and how to get some use out of its limited firepower. I've pointed out how even if it survives the entire fight it's still going to have to punch above its weight to have a lot of impact. I have no ulterior motive to ruin anyone's fun, just indicating that the elephant in the corner is still there.
...
Standard Land Raiders are generally viewed as being sub-optimal, there's a reason for it, and if new players are going to get use out of a unit tactica, they have to be made aware of all the things that make a unit not a good choice as well as how to maximize its utility.

That is a great point, but you've made it now so your work here is done.

Deadshane1 wrote:IMHO 40k is more than simple mathhammer.

Coming up with percentages of transports stopped per turn while ignoring other factors doesnt neccessarily give an accurate prediction of what will happen during a game.
...
Mathhammer doesnt always cut it.

More people need to consider this.

Manimal wrote:First, thanks to Deadshane1 for taking the time to write a standard LR tactica.

Second, thanks to Sour Clams for putting forth a reasonable opposition position on his tactica.

It is this sort of interplay that makes posts like this enjoyable and useful.

Well summed up, but you forgot to mention:

Black Blow Fly wrote:Agreed. sour clams was trolling again.

Third, thanks to Black Blow Fly for trolling about trolling

Thread is being locked due to thread necromancy.