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Tri wrote:

AgeOfEgos wrote:Eh, if I played Daemonhunters I would play the Crusader variant every time (Not unlike vanilla Marines, although for different reasons). Can the DH players explain why they prefer the vanilla Raider over their Crusader?

Its simple the only place they can get any anti tank weapons is in the Heavy support section and that is only really two choices a vanilla LR or a Dreadnought

Eh, or a Crusader that can;

Move 12 every turn and fire it's MM at an E tank and it's Hurricane Bolters at enemy infantry
Pop DH smoke which reduces all penetrating hits to glances that turn

*Shrug*, seems like a hell of a deal to me

Bit of a difference between having a range 48" anti tank gun and a range 12" anti-tank gun (meltas only really work within half range)

Tri wrote:Bit of a difference between having a range 48" anti tank gun and a range 12" anti-tank gun (meltas only really work within half range)

Crusader moves 12 + 12 = 24 inch 2d6 pen +1 damage range. Or 36 inch 1d6 + 1 Damage Chart range. Las Cannons are 'ok' with the new damage charts but in most cases it's better to have MM...even outside of 2d6 range. Example against Chimera;

Las Cannon hits:
50% chance to pen
33% chance to wreck/explode

MM hit:
33% chance to pen
50% chance to wreck/explode

MM can also wreck on a glance, whereas a Las Cannon cannot. Las Cannons do have range on MM but this is somewhat mitigated by a Crusader that can move 12" a turn and still take a shot (While lighting up enemy infantry at the same time). Add in super smoke and I would consider it a done deal. I will admit that against certain Eldar mech, Speeders or Necron Lith spam the las cannon has it's benefits.

I am a big fan of the crusader and never run Phobos pattern anymore. The crusader is the best assault vehicle in the game hands down. It always has been.

G

I know a list was posted for an Inquisitorial army with three land raiders, what would a decent 1500pt marine in land raider list look like??

Thanks again,
Chappy P!

I'm a GK player. The only issue I have with the GK LRC is that I have no choice but to close in order for it to be useful. At least with a GHLR, it can sit back if needed or close if needed; a LRC does not have that option.

I have the exact same issue with the LRR, and I have played GK's with LRR's quite extensively in order to test them out. Redeemers, like Crusaders, have no choice but to close in order to be useful which limits their utility in a pure GK list (GK's need to stay flexible in a tournament environment, as our options are few and therefore need to be effective in all games).

That said, I'd found that unless I'm intending to assault with my GKT's, a GHLR is a better buy than a LRC in most games. Where the GK LRC shines is versus non-'Nid horde armies, and that is about it.

SJ

Looks like this thread has finally run it's course.

G

The crusader is the best assault vehicle in the game hands down. It always has been.

I assume you say so because of the capacity?

Cause I'd take Flamestorms over Hurricane Bolters any day...

Capacity is the big reason IMO. Having a more guys rather than fewer definitely helps in the assault, and there's a big difference between 12 Blood Claws and 16 Blood Claws.