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I actually love the idea of the C'tan finally being gone. I hated them they were the worst bits of the fluff ever.

yakface wrote:
This rumor is a bit wrong.

It is a close combat attack for a named character.

It does apparently target identical models, though.

Thanks, yakface!

Got any other info that's not been discussed in the rumor posts? I'm drooling upon anticpation of this new codex, I'm eager to see if these new robots can smash some dark eldar face!

Battle Brother Ambrosius wrote:Indeed. It basically one-shots a whole f**king army in a single shooting phase. Matt Ward has clearly overdone himself this time. Deep Striking Land Raiders, Flying Librarian Dreadnoughts and Stormraven Gunships were absolutely nothing compared to this.

I am honestly starting to fear that he will include Chuck Norris in his next "Codex".

He didn't outdo himself BECAUSE IT DOESN'T fething EXIST. This rule is literally impossible to put into the game with any sort of mind for balance. GW's rules are not written in a vacuum, they are done by committee. Even if Mat Ward was the mouthbreathing neanderthal every Internet parrot thinks he is, it wouldn't happen.

PS: All three things you listed as "cheesy" or whatever are fething awful. Deep striking land raiders are an awful idea (mishap/get closer to my meltaguns thanks) flying dreadnoughts are goofy but not that dangerous, and Stormravens? Are you serious? Armor 12 targets that can rarely get a cover save and are almost impossible to hide? Really? None of those things are cheesy, none of them are very good (at least not gamebreakingly so) and Chuck Norris references are woefully, woefully outdated.

Brother SRM wrote:He didn't outdo himself BECAUSE IT DOESN'T fething EXIST.

How dare you, sir. How dare you get in the way of a perfectly good excuse to bash GW for something they didn't do and isn't real. If people can't make things up to hate GW about around here, what the hell is everyone suppose to do?

Okay, a much more full description of the rule is like this:

This rule applies ONLY to the units the special Necron character is engaged with (it doesn't affect every model in the enemy army of the same type).

It happens after the Necron character has killed someone in combat and after all blows have been struck on both sides.

Roll a D6 for every type of model (friend or enemy) that the special character killed that turn. On a 4+ all other models in combat of that type take a wound (armor/inv saves can be taken as normal).

Example: If the Necron character kills an Ork Slugga boy in close combat and got the 4+ roll, all other Slugga boyz in the same combat would take a wound, but NOT the nob (as he's a different type of model). Any Shoota boyz, for example, in the same combat would be unaffected as well. If he killed a marine and got the roll, all other marines would take a wound, but not the vet sgt, etc.

It would seem that if this Necron was fighting against another Necron player, then he has the potential to hurt his own forces if the same type of units were facing off; if he was attached to a unit of warriors that was fighting against an enemy unit of warriors, for example.

Once again, if it sounds too good to be true- it probably is.

Lowers your salt intake.

Awesome for the clarity boost, Yakface, Thanks again. Seems like this character will be #1 public enemy vs 'nids and orks, especially if the wounds caused count towards combat resolution. Just imagine assaulting orks and winning combat by 20!

Back to reality - a powerklaw/fist will probably squash this guy flat if we robots aren't careful about placement during assault moves.

Appreciate the info Yakface. This guy sounds like a backwards purifier. I imagine his ability counts towards the final totals to decide who won the combat as well.

yakface wrote:
Necron clarification

Thanks for this. While it still sounds a little playtesty to me, that makes a lot more sense than the bogus rule that everyone was losing their marbles over.

Now the big question is what is the profile for the special character is like? If he has an average state profile than I see the rule as being balanced. If he is as killy as the Nightbringer (or is modelled on a large base) then I could see a possible balance issue.

Like anything as killy as the Nightbringer would be allowed to stay in a Xenos codex written by a Marine fanboi?

Ascalam wrote:Like anything as killy as the Nightbringer would be allowed to stay in a Xenos codex written by a Marine fanboi?

Thanks for the useful post A+++ would quote again

Could people just drop that it's written by Mat Ward already? When it's out you can bitch all you want until something else comes out and everyone gets bored.

How do cliche's become cliche?

Because they are true, generally

I will happily retract my statement if someone of equal or better stats/abilities is in the codex. I wouldn't hold your breath on this though

This rule sounds balanced to me.

Things that don't sound balanced are things like:

Shunting Dreadknights...
TH/SS Terminators... 2+/3++ wtfbbqapkjmnfqrnf
Squadroned AV 14 marine killer tanks...
Outflanking Lascannon platforms with twin-linking...
Units that spawn more units... wtf?!

Yet, none of these broke the game. They just made it more interesting. So in a lot of ways they might not of sounded balanced at first, but they were in many ways.

Hopefully, the Crons deliver!

Edit: Hoping Yak is right! If so, Crons finally got some H2H loving they needed badly!

Brother SRM wrote:

Battle Brother Ambrosius wrote:Indeed. It basically one-shots a whole f**king army in a single shooting phase. Matt Ward has clearly overdone himself this time. Deep Striking Land Raiders, Flying Librarian Dreadnoughts and Stormraven Gunships were absolutely nothing compared to this.

I am honestly starting to fear that he will include Chuck Norris in his next "Codex".

He didn't outdo himself BECAUSE IT DOESN'T fething EXIST. This rule is literally impossible to put into the game with any sort of mind for balance. GW's rules are not written in a vacuum, they are done by committee. Even if Mat Ward was the mouthbreathing neanderthal every Internet parrot thinks he is, it wouldn't happen.

PS: All three things you listed as "cheesy" or whatever are fething awful. Deep striking land raiders are an awful idea (mishap/get closer to my meltaguns thanks) flying dreadnoughts are goofy but not that dangerous, and Stormravens? Are you serious? Armor 12 targets that can rarely get a cover save and are almost impossible to hide? Really? None of those things are cheesy, none of them are very good (at least not gamebreakingly so) and Chuck Norris references are woefully, woefully outdated.

I didn't mean they were THAT broken, only that the concepts for those are ridiculous. Think about it. Flying Librarian Dreads. My comment was meant to be more comical than anything else, no point in yelling at me for that. Obviously I failed to bring the general idea visible, but still.

Besides, I know Chuck Norris jokes are horrible, and I just intended to highlight the silliness of Matt Ward's fluff. In any way, he has made some really cheesy special characters who basically are equivalent to if not exceeding Norris. But anyways, nice flaming.

Why does no one remember the debunked or just plain wrong rumors of past? People only seem to remember the parts that were even remotely correct when citation these sources? Man the old GK stuff was lulz and a half.

Ascalam wrote:Like anything as killy as the Nightbringer would be allowed to stay in a Xenos codex written by a Marine fanboi?

It's very likely considering bad codex means bad sales, see the tyranids. Also about the general Wardbashing: he's just a writer, nothing more. He doesn't go and say "ok, I want a marine strapped to a mech", it's more likely that models are designed as a teamwork. His job is to fit them into codex and make sure they sell.

Not gonna defend his fluff though.

Brother SRM wrote:
PS: All three things you listed as "cheesy" or whatever are fething awful. Deep striking land raiders are an awful idea (mishap/get closer to my meltaguns thanks) flying dreadnoughts are goofy but not that dangerous, and Stormravens? Are you serious? Armor 12 targets that can rarely get a cover save and are almost impossible to hide? Really? None of those things are cheesy, none of them are very good (at least not gamebreakingly so)

I agree. Though I know Ward can make a good Codex, and he isn't as incompetent as some to like to say, it does seem like some of his later codexs aren’t very well done. They aren’t overpowered, but they just have bad ideas. Examples would be the ones given and more. Some of those ideas (and I can’t be sure that they were his) are just silly and seem like something that my 7 year old would come up with.

“Mephisten! A Space Marine Vampire!” Uhhh… ok. (Also, I can’t spell.)
“Ohhh! Deepstriking a Land Raider!” I guess but let's dial it back a bit buddy.
“What about a dreadnought that sprouts wings and flies.” Ok, son. Looks like you have had too much chocolate.

These aren’t overpowered units. They are just silly ideas.

And this is where a lot of the fear is with the Necrons. I like the Necron Fluff, complete with the C’Tan. Now, I think that the C’Tan units should be Avatars or something similar, I liked the idea of them. I just don’t like them on the game field. But I digress.

I fear that the Necrons will have a transport. I fear that they will have some awful ideas like the above examples. Give them teleport abilities, or even small gate vehicles (like mini Monoliths.) But transports mess up the fluff.

But a weapon that will kill any like unit on the board… Not happening. A weapon that does damage to every model in a unit, ok. I see that happening, but not without some sort of modifier that would effect the strength of the weapon on larger units. Strength 5 on units with 5 or less models. 4 on units from 5 to 15. 3 on units 15 or greater. That would be Ok. But same strength on each model in a unit? Bad idea and overpowered. Thus, I don’t think that it is real.

Ascalam wrote:Like anything as killy as the Nightbringer would be allowed to stay in a Xenos codex written by a Marine fanboi?

QFT None of the other xenos codex books written by Ward had anything that killy in them.....wait, what?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

headrattle wrote:

Brother SRM wrote:

I fear that the Necrons will have a transport. I fear that they will have some awful ideas like the above examples. Give them teleport abilities, or even small gate vehicles (like mini Monoliths.) But transports mess up the fluff.

You mean like how the transport design that has been heavily suggested as the basis for one of the new transports has a portal at the front?

Transports using the existing rules with some minor special rules modification can allow for "fluffy" transports that still provide the benefits that transports bring to the table. Not to mention they have models that can be sold unlike tellypotas which makes more business sense.

chuck norris is THE king of the internets.


otherwise im waiting to see what the actual 'cron dex will be before rendering judgment. everyone thought DE and GK would be grossley overpowered but actually turned out fairly playable and beatable. (although GK fluff is another matter entirely...)

You know, before i said:

"Flying land raiders? HA!"

"Grey knight MC? HA!"

But look what happened

Thanks for the clarification Yakface, much appreciated man. Cheers!

Pacific wrote:Yes right, that's why I don't understand why this is being discussed seriously. There is absolutely no way a rule, if it to actually be represented like that, could be balanced on the tabletop. And for all his slightly underwhelming (or perhaps overwhelming would be a better word) background-writing efforts, at least the majority of Matt Ward's rules have been quite well balanced.

This. Within the game as a whole, Mat Ward's rules are actually pretty damn balanced.
His fluff and themes are pretty absurd, over-the-top and poorly implemented whilst some ideas are just absurd, but none of these things are actually overpowered rules-wise IMHO. Believe it or not, the internet may be blowing it out of proportion...

If it works like Yak said it will, it sounds quite balanced, but prone to being all or nothing against many armies - which may be more common for Wards rules IMHO.

KarlPedder wrote:
You mean like how the transport design that has been heavily suggested as the basis for one of the new transports has a portal at the front?

Transports using the existing rules with some minor special rules modification can allow for "fluffy" transports that still provide the benefits that transports bring to the table. Not to mention they have models that can be sold unlike tellypotas which makes more business sense.

Well the rumour goes both ways. We won't know til the codex comes out. But I don't want to have Crons coming out of the damn thing. I may try to model it to be a portal boat if I can. But you never know.

A moving portal like the Warpgate that the DE have would be cooler. Just a moving Monilith with the portal and not the living metal or all of the weapons would be nice. Make it kinda expensive for it's size because of it, but still it would be different, fluffy and fun.

yakface wrote:
Okay, a much more full description of the rule is like this:

This rule applies ONLY to the units the special Necron character is engaged with (it doesn't affect every model in the enemy army of the same type).

It happens after the Necron character has killed someone in combat and after all blows have been struck on both sides.

Roll a D6 for every type of model (friend or enemy) that the special character killed that turn. On a 4+ all other models in combat of that type take a wound (armor/inv saves can be taken as normal).

Example: If the Necron character kills an Ork Slugga boy in close combat and got the 4+ roll, all other Slugga boyz in the same combat would take a wound, but NOT the nob (as he's a different type of model). Any Shoota boyz, for example, in the same combat would be unaffected as well. If he killed a marine and got the roll, all other marines would take a wound, but not the vet sgt, etc.

It would seem that if this Necron was fighting against another Necron player, then he has the potential to hurt his own forces if the same type of units were facing off; if he was attached to a unit of warriors that was fighting against an enemy unit of warriors, for example.

So, basically one more reason to never take a Green Tide in Apocalypse, is what you're saying.

It still sounds completely ludicrous, as units with high model counts tend to have craptastical armor saves (lookin at you Ork Boys or Gaunts). One kill would suddenly have a 50/50 shot of wiping out (almost) the rest of the unit. That is beyond silly. Mind you I'm not saying it's impossible, but it does make me glad I've been switching more and more to Fantasy...

streamdragon wrote:

yakface wrote:
Okay, a much more full description of the rule is like this:

This rule applies ONLY to the units the special Necron character is engaged with (it doesn't affect every model in the enemy army of the same type).

It happens after the Necron character has killed someone in combat and after all blows have been struck on both sides.

Roll a D6 for every type of model (friend or enemy) that the special character killed that turn. On a 4+ all other models in combat of that type take a wound (armor/inv saves can be taken as normal).

Example: If the Necron character kills an Ork Slugga boy in close combat and got the 4+ roll, all other Slugga boyz in the same combat would take a wound, but NOT the nob (as he's a different type of model). Any Shoota boyz, for example, in the same combat would be unaffected as well. If he killed a marine and got the roll, all other marines would take a wound, but not the vet sgt, etc.

It would seem that if this Necron was fighting against another Necron player, then he has the potential to hurt his own forces if the same type of units were facing off; if he was attached to a unit of warriors that was fighting against an enemy unit of warriors, for example.

So, basically one more reason to never take a Green Tide in Apocalypse, is what you're saying.

It still sounds completely ludicrous, as units with high model counts tend to have craptastical armor saves (lookin at you Ork Boys or Gaunts). One kill would suddenly have a 50/50 shot of wiping out (almost) the rest of the unit. That is beyond silly. Mind you I'm not saying it's impossible, but it does make me glad I've been switching more and more to Fantasy...

4 Words : Purple Sun Of Xerxes.

CthuluIsSpy wrote:

streamdragon wrote:

yakface wrote:
Okay, a much more full description of the rule is like this:

This rule applies ONLY to the units the special Necron character is engaged with (it doesn't affect every model in the enemy army of the same type).

It happens after the Necron character has killed someone in combat and after all blows have been struck on both sides.

Roll a D6 for every type of model (friend or enemy) that the special character killed that turn. On a 4+ all other models in combat of that type take a wound (armor/inv saves can be taken as normal).

Example: If the Necron character kills an Ork Slugga boy in close combat and got the 4+ roll, all other Slugga boyz in the same combat would take a wound, but NOT the nob (as he's a different type of model). Any Shoota boyz, for example, in the same combat would be unaffected as well. If he killed a marine and got the roll, all other marines would take a wound, but not the vet sgt, etc.

It would seem that if this Necron was fighting against another Necron player, then he has the potential to hurt his own forces if the same type of units were facing off; if he was attached to a unit of warriors that was fighting against an enemy unit of warriors, for example.

So, basically one more reason to never take a Green Tide in Apocalypse, is what you're saying.

It still sounds completely ludicrous, as units with high model counts tend to have craptastical armor saves (lookin at you Ork Boys or Gaunts). One kill would suddenly have a 50/50 shot of wiping out (almost) the rest of the unit. That is beyond silly. Mind you I'm not saying it's impossible, but it does make me glad I've been switching more and more to Fantasy...

4 Words : Purple Sun Of Xerxes.

Will hit a template's worth of models. You might have just wanted two words: Dwellers Below. Either way, that's what Dispel Scrolls are for. I can't dispel scroll someone shanking one guy and then 100+ other boys falling dead :(

100+ other boys, all in one combat with the one character? Character that presumably hadn't been nuked by one of the many nasty weapons available in Apoc?

Just Dave wrote:100+ other boys, all in one combat with the one character? Character that presumably hadn't been nuked by one of the many nasty weapons available in Apoc?

Green Tide is Warboss plus 100+ boyz I've got the models to field it, but generally find it unwieldly :(

Either way I was simply using it as an exaggerated example of a large unit that would lose a ridiculous number of models simply because of one wound. For another (more likely) example we'll take a 30 ork Boyz squad. 1 wound on a shoota/slugga boy would cause 20+ extra wounds on the squad, breaking it from a Fearless band of Ork boyz ready for some krumpin, to a squad about to get wiped out.

1 single wound.

Why are people saying this rule sounds ludicrous? Have you not read that purifiers do the same thing but BETTER? They hit every model in the COMBAT even ones not engaged with the purifier!

So there is precedence for a rule like this, and its A LOT worse than the purifiers because its 1 named character vs 12 combat squaded purifiers (Even tho there are only 40 purifiers in existance)

The presence of another ludicrous rule, does not prevent this rule from sounding ludicrous; really it merely lends credence to its ludicrosity (which is not a real word).