Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

 Azreal13 wrote:
Scans of the whole book are up in the N+R thread chaps, no need to speculate any more!

no need to buy anymore

Can't believe no one's pointed out yet, Libby now comes with Nemesis Ward Stave STANDARD. Coupled with ML3, thats a 3+ DTW in almost any situation...

DTW being nearly pointless considering the best spells 90% of the time are blessings...

Is so dumbs.



Also looks like no relic terminator armor techmarines since it has to replace terminator armor......

Hot damn a fully kitted out NDK (Heavy Psy, Heavy Incinerator, Teleporter, Sword) for only 225 pts!?

Yep Codex: Dreadknights is a go.

Dreadknights are going to be huge, not that they already weren't. I might as well retired my Dreadnoughts now and buy a third Dreadknight and now my Dreadknight with the Heavy Psycannon actually becomes useful again instead of having to tell people that it isn't actually there but the reduced cost is going to open up a lot of things especially if you go with the standard template of DK. Still disappointed by the Psycannon going Salvo but it is permanent Rending so that is a plus.

Well no real 3 dread knights considering the force org is 2 HS

So you will need some double cad action for the 3rd

 Envihon wrote:
Dreadknights are going to be huge, not that they already weren't. I might as well retired my Dreadnoughts now and buy a third Dreadknight and now my Dreadknight with the Heavy Psycannon actually becomes useful again instead of having to tell people that it isn't actually there but the reduced cost is going to open up a lot of things especially if you go with the standard template of DK. Still disappointed by the Psycannon going Salvo but it is permanent Rending so that is a plus.

figures they would push the baby carrier even harder.

Hmm no one seems to confrim on NR.

It seems that you might possibly never be able to get Objective secured since they have there own specific cad detachment that only have command benefits of reroll WLT and T1 Deepstrikage

Also cant seem to confirm if the types of cad detachments are optional.

 agnosto wrote:

 Envihon wrote:
One thing that you can't ignore though is that although most Imperial armies can operate autonomously just out of their codex, allying goes a long way for Imperial forces. SM and AM are the best ones that can work just by themselves but you combine forces and it feels a lot more well rounded, again I think it was another design choice by GW. We saw the "What is the point of SM?" thread here and I think having the sides show their strengths and weaknesses in this manner goes to the fluffy reasons why they exist and also show the strategy and tactics about it as well having it proven on the tabletop why the SM and why the AM exist as someone uses both allied with each other to make a better strategy. That is probably why I like the Imperial Forces the most, you get to dip into other codices to make an awesome army which 7th has gone to cater to even more. It is all coming together and I have a feeling this is how GW wanted it. Not so much wanting to run our wallets dry but allow Imperial players to really pick and choose what armies they want to use to represent the Imperium with as well as refine an awesome strategy which other self-contained armies like the Tau and the Eldar don't really get but their single codex is more self reliant than the Imperial codices. It is an attempt at marriage of fluff and game mechanics which for a person like me who makes an army for fluff reasons and not competitive reasons appreciates.

You bring up some good points but it feels like GW is almost giving up on certain armies. Like they realized that they couldn't be autonomous on the game table so why bother trying to make them that way, instead let's separate them out and expect players to sort out what they want to do. Though I understand what you and others are saying, and it does provide some flexibility, I can't help feel that they could have accomplished the same thing by leaving them all together. I know that I'm in the minority when I say this but I really dislike allying. I personally want armies that can stand alone without the crutch of bringing in an ally to fill gaps in battlefield needs; by separating the books, I'm now stuck with more than likely losing if I play my GK force because the only anti-tank I'll have is stompy DKs or point expensive storm ravens. And I really, really dislike having to use more than one book for rules; I play once a month (if that) and I will forget rules, my opponent doesn't need to sit for 10 minutes as I sift through a shelf full of reference materials to find what I'm looking for.

Just some thoughts and a general gripe; I'll adjust or I'll shelf the army like I did Tau in 5th.

Not to sound like I'm mitigating the issue, but I always found that writing things down saves me a boatload of time. Then again, I always prepare lists ahead of time. In my area, we don't have people loitering in the store to play pick ups. We often plan them a week in advance or so. I'll write down any special rules that go with the units/weapons, so I have it right in front of me (Along with page number for opponents who wish to read it themselves from the source). This keeps me from having to keep picking up my stuff. By the time the new Ork book came out, I was a master of my book, knowing all the rules/points by heart. Of course, now with a new book, I'm back to jotting stuff down so I don't need to flip open my book every time I forget. I can just pick up my piece of paper with everything right there.

Just my .02 on that sort of issue. Though I will agree it would get pretty tedious if Orks had a book for severy Klan (Which...they might soon? Who knows...) and I'd have to bring those books with me every time I played. But, I can (for the most part) keep them in my backpack and out of mind unless someone things I'm lieing and wants to read it themselves. But, page is on my paper so I can flip right to it for them.

So did I miss something or did they get rid of Psybolt ammo? That is one loss that I might feel and morn quite hard but I am thinking about so much that I could do right now.

Despite the losses of things, taking the Nemesis Strike Force and basically being able to start with nothing on the ground first turn is pretty awesome not to mention the fact that Dreadknights can Deep Strike now as well as teleport is freaking amazing. Deep Strike them where you need and then save the shunt is just unbelievably good. I will not be surprised if we see Unbound Dreadknight lists.

Honestly, we took some nerfs but what we gained is huge imo. I can have the Deep Striking army I have always wanted and that is awesome. The Nemesis Strike Force formation is going to hinge on going 2nd in a turn with nothing for them to shoot at. It gives a huge distinct advantage to the GK. Albeit, you can only take 2 Fast attacks and 2 Heavy which is probably to prevent people abusing the Shunters too much especially the DKs.

With the amount of cost reduction and everything, I am pretty excited and I am happy to see the return of my Terminators to the field.

 Azreal13 wrote:
Scans of the whole book are up in the N+R thread chaps, no need to speculate any more!

Where is this N+R thread?

 Envihon wrote:
So did I miss something or did they get rid of Psybolt ammo? That is one loss that I might feel and morn quite hard but I am thinking about so much that I could do right now.

Nobody knows. They have been integrated into the units now is a theory. Thing is we are guessing, we just don't know.

Looks like Psybolt is gone from what the scans show.

The changes to the Nemesis Force Weapons is interesting, automatically upgrading Swords looks to be pretty much assured, Halberds are very good but different. Falchions might see use? Termi's are cheap now.

Looks like they cut out a bunch of the powerful but fidgety/controversial wargear and rules, cut costs on some units and options, make Dreadnoughts totally pointless and Dreadknights auto-take, made killy HQ's very expensive and Librarians very cheap, and gave them some relatively powerful army wide special rules, particularly when Deep Striking.

What about the Stormraven. Did I miss something, or did it lose the side sponsons, as well as the ability to exhchange the Heavy bolter and Assault Cannon for aTwin-linked Lascannon and Multi-melta?

I was wondering that about the Stormraven as well. And I am pretty sure the Grand Master is actually cheaper and is now a Psychic Mastery Level 2.

I also think that Halberds in the least are pretty much going to be a must take for all squads since they are that cheap for everyone giving +1 S which means with Hammerhand it is going to be a +3 S giving every unit a 7 S which allows more wounds and that means that they will be able to crack armor 12 in melee. Kind of sucks though because I have nothing but swords on my guys, or hammers so I am definitely going to be out of wysiwyg even more now until I can get around getting new models and giving them halberds. My Terminators are fine though.

It kind of has me wondering what the point of having Interceptors though since with the new Deep Striking rules, you kind of don't need to have them shunting anymore and it would be cheaper to just take GKSS and keep them in reserves unless you are worried that you won't have half your force on the board by the end of turn one. Instead, you could have two Stormravens filling the Fast Attack slots and just have GKSS and Terminators filling the Troops and then DKs filling the Heavy slots.

 Envihon wrote:
Yeah I looked it up. If it is true, umm...Psylencers just became the new Psycannons against Monstrous Creatures...especially a Nemesis Dreadknight with a Gatling Psylencer. We will have to see but the Psycannons days might be numbered on regular troops.

The new psylencer is pretty ass against Monstrous Creatures, tbh. Due to being strength 4 AP- it can't even hurt Wraithknights, and statistically needs ~54 shots at BS4 to put one wound on a Riptide or swooping T6 5++ FMC.

Those three types of MC's pretty much make up the super majority of MC's that you'll see on the field. Even for when you come across the relatively obscure walking MC, like a Carnifex, it takes ~27 shots from a Psylencer to put one wound on a T6 3+sv MC. So with a Gatling Psylencer Dreadknight, that's about 3 straight turns of shooting to kill a single Carnifex.

- - -

Has anyone seen the prices for psylencers? Taking them en masse could be their saving grace.

 BlaxicanX wrote:

 Envihon wrote:
Yeah I looked it up. If it is true, umm...Psylencers just became the new Psycannons against Monstrous Creatures...especially a Nemesis Dreadknight with a Gatling Psylencer. We will have to see but the Psycannons days might be numbered on regular troops.

The new psylencer is pretty ass against Monstrous Creatures, tbh. Due to being strength 4 AP- it can't even hurt Wraithknights, and statistically needs ~54 shots at BS4 to put one wound on a Riptide or swooping T6 5++ FMC.

Those three types of MC's pretty much make up the super majority of MC's that you'll see on the field. Even for when you come across the relatively obscure walking MC, like a Carnifex, it takes ~27 shots from a Psylencer to put one wound on a T6 3+sv MC. So with a Gatling Psylencer Dreadknight, that's about 3 straight turns of shooting to kill a single Carnifex.

- - -

Has anyone seen the prices for psylencers? Taking them en masse could be their saving grace.

So mass shooting to bring down enemies. I guess that means Grey knights are just guardsmen with better armor and a fraction of the models. Force doesn't add much to the Psilencer. Still being S4 means a lot of things it can't hurt at all. The bigger change is that the Psycannon's range has been reduced to uselessness (if they are close enough to shoot it, they're close enough to charge, and being as the two are mutually exclusive, the unit should charge every time). As of the release of this new codex, the Incinerator is the best specialist weapon option. as the other two sacrifice too much for too little in return.

Wraithknights... no one runs those! PSH!

ForeverARookie wrote:
What about the Stormraven. Did I miss something, or did it lose the side sponsons, as well as the ability to exhchange the Heavy bolter and Assault Cannon for aTwin-linked Lascannon and Multi-melta?

He didnt post the 2nd page with the points and trade options for the stormraven. Its pretty much the same points/swaps though as the raven is now

 Desubot wrote:
Hmm no one seems to confrim on NR.

It seems that you might possibly never be able to get Objective secured since they have there own specific cad detachment that only have command benefits of reroll WLT and T1 Deepstrikage

Also cant seem to confirm if the types of cad detachments are optional.

No need to confirm it, as the BRB states you can use the CAD and Allies.

There is ONE CAD. ONE. The one from the BRB. Everything else is just another named type of detachment, which its own command benefits.

I'll happily swap OS for T1 DS

 Envihon wrote:

ForeverARookie wrote:
In my opinion, if the rumors that the Psycannon can only be fired up to 12" on the move by models in Power Armour, that is the single worst change in this codex.

I think we can come to forgive the loss of Assassins and Inquisition. I'll even give Mordrak and Thawn a moment of silence, but gimping the workhorse of the Grey Knight army down to practically pistol range is worth all the hate people can muster. It destroys the only weapon the power armored troops could used to face off against vehicles and Monstrous Creatures at more than 8" away. Their only options have been reduced to the Incinerator (8.5" Template), Psycannon (12"), and the Psilencer (Still worthless, even with Force)

But we can hope against hope that GW had the sense to make the Psycannon a 36" Salvo instead of leaving it at 24".

This is the first time I have heard about this. Do you have a link to where these rumors come from? To do this would utterly take the point away from taking Psycannons on anyone except for Terminators which may be the reason why they reduced the cost of them.

Please find a summary of the weapons here: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/1560/607598.page
page 53.

A lot of people are spelling doom and gloom on this new Codex for the Grey Knights and I get their arguments but I still don't see it really especially with the cost reduction of everything. Yes, Psycannon went to Salvo but is now always rending. A unit that is going to kill something in CC should be in 12" anyway. My GKSS and GK Interceptors have rarely been not that close.

Terminators are viable with us again and still get their benefits of the Psycannon. DKs are even better since they cost less and can have two cannons strapped to their wrists for less than the price that they were to have one with a great sword and teleporter. Not to mention that with the Nemesis Strike Force formation we can Deep Strike turn 1. We can be like Drop Pod armies and start Turn 1 with nothing on the table, have them go first and then drop everything on our turn thus denying them a turn. That is a huge advantage that people really aren't seeing the value of.

The two things I am most disappointed in is the loss of Psybolt ammunition and the Halberds not adding +2 I but it does do +1 S so added in Hammerhand and most squads would be able to dismantle Armor 12.

People are right that we didn't solve our anti-armor problem with DKs or a Stormraven our best options but I long reconciled this with taking allies.

My biggest issues after looking at the scans are the loss of psybolt ammo and the fact that I now feel GK can only be run either with Allies or as Allies.

 CrashCanuck wrote:
My biggest issues after looking at the scans are the loss of psybolt ammo and the fact that I now feel GK can only be run either with Allies or as Allies.

I feel that you are right but in a way it makes them come in line with the fluff. The GKs rarely work without some kind of supporting force while they go in to take care of the daemons. In all pieces of fluff written about them, it has always been this way especially counting the fact that they have mind wipe or kill you after seeing them. Grimnar used them in that way as 100 GKs teleported in to take care of Angron, the SW played their part in keeping everyone away so the GK could do their thing without being seen. It makes the Nemesis Strike Force seem more relevant but feth if I won't mourn the loss of psybolt ammunition.

I love the idea of being able to deep strike turn 1 but I also love purifiers so I'm conflicted on how to use them... perhaps putting them in Stormravens or allying drop pods from Space Wolves?

I guess they could just start on the board in Rhinos but that kind of defeats the point of denying my opponent a turn.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Envihon wrote:
Yes, Psycannon went to Salvo but is now always rending.

What do you mean by 'now always rending'? Weren't they always rending before?

Zimko wrote:
I love the idea of being able to deep strike turn 1 but I also love purifiers so I'm conflicted on how to use them... perhaps putting them in Stormravens or allying drop pods from Space Wolves?

I guess they could just start on the board in Rhinos but that kind of defeats the point of denying my opponent a turn.

I was looking at that and with the buffs Purifiers have gotten, for once I am considering using them in game but that is the problem is that they don't deep strike like the rest of the army does. Heck, even the DK can Deep Strike now so the only thing would be to hold them in a Raven, and then Deep Strike them from the Raven so that they function like the rest of the army. Their attacks put Soul Blaze on the target, plus they have Hammerhand and they have Cleansing Flame. Purifiers did get a huge buff but at the same time they aren't as portable as the rest of the army. You could also stick in a Land Raider and keep the the Land Raider off the board.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Zimko wrote:
I love the idea of being able to deep strike turn 1 but I also love purifiers so I'm conflicted on how to use them... perhaps putting them in Stormravens or allying drop pods from Space Wolves?

I guess they could just start on the board in Rhinos but that kind of defeats the point of denying my opponent a turn.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Envihon wrote:
Yes, Psycannon went to Salvo but is now always rending.

What do you mean by 'now always rending'? Weren't they always rending before?

If you fired a Psycannon as an Assault weapon because you moved that turn, you only got to fire two shots and you would loose the Rending aspect of the Psycannon while if you didn't move and fired the Psycannon you got 4 shots with Rending. Now with it changed to Salvo, you get Rending no matter which of the modes you firing in.

Wow, I never realized the assault 2 version did not have rending. I've been playing that wrong. Oops.

I'm unfamiliar with how you deep strike a flyer. If you do so with the Storm Raven, is there anywhere that you can deploy the men inside since there's no spot on the board that the Storm Raven 'moved over?'?

You cannot Deep Strike a Storm Raven and the special detachment only allows units that are Deep Striking to be rolled for turn 1.

Zimko wrote:
Wow, I never realized the assault 2 version did not have rending. I've been playing that wrong. Oops.

I'm unfamiliar with how you deep strike a flyer. If you do so with the Storm Raven, is there anywhere that you can deploy the men inside since there's no spot on the board that the Storm Raven 'moved over?'?

Ah, so playing the Psycannon that way I can see why it would be a major nerf. In reality based on how it was functioning before, it was acting like a Salvo weapon just without the distance reduction but hey, I will take that Rending on both modes now. Like I said, the units that will be effected by the Salvo shouldn't be that far away from their targets in the first place.

When you have a Flyer come in from Reserves, you have to move in at least 18" from your side of the board. I believe the rule is called "Fury of the Skies", it is something like that either way the special rule is that if the flyer has moved more than 6" during your turn you can still drop off the troops they are carrying but you have to Deep Strike them out of the Flyer and only in the path that the Flyer took from it's starting point to it's ending point. That is how you would have to "Deep Strike" Purifiers. The one problem would just be the 18" so they might be delayed an additional turn if you can't put them exactly where you wanted so it might be imperative to get the Raven on the board Turn 1 and have your Purifiers hit the board Turn 2 unless you can get your flyer where you need it on the turn that it comes in.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 CrashCanuck wrote:
You cannot Deep Strike a Storm Raven and the special detachment only allows units that are Deep Striking to be rolled for turn 1.

See I took it as you are allowed you have any Grey Knight Reserves arrive on Turn 1. I might have to go re-read that. Edit: Yeah it is only Deep Strike Reserves so a Flyer will still have to wait until Turn 2 which means you might have to wait until Turn 3 to get your Purifiers.