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If you want to haul a 20-Sister block across the battlefield, then you need an Ecclesiarchal version/variant of the Crassus. It would also take care of the fact that we don't have a dedicated Super-Heavy.

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 SisterSydney wrote:
Quick aside on anti-horde: if you want Blast, the most logical place to put it as on an alternative warhead for the Exorcist.

That or turn the Exorcist into a Blast Barrage Weapon (not really what I want to do honestly).

It should be done, however. At least, it will end the stupid fact it can't hit at anything with the current rules in V7 (line of sight following the weapon tube for wehicles...since the Exorcist's ones are directly upwards, well...).

And honestly, it would me more suited to their current appearance (I'm not talking about conversions from Whirlwinds or that blank FW model from that time). Since a Barrage Weapon with no Blast can be quite tricky to work within the current rules, it's better to use it the old good way.

Random Melta Missiles were always a bad idea at the core, IMHO. Especially in an army that has a "fire threat" at close range for most of its members.

 SisterSydney wrote:
Quick aside on anti-horde: if you want Blast, the most logical place to put it as on an alternative warhead for the Exorcist.

Please no, Exorcists are already one of our best units. They don't need further buffs or options.

 Sarouan wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 SisterSydney wrote:
Quick aside on anti-horde: if you want Blast, the most logical place to put it as on an alternative warhead for the Exorcist.

That or turn the Exorcist into a Blast Barrage Weapon (not really what I want to do honestly).

It should be done, however. At least, it will end the stupid fact it can't hit at anything with the current rules in V7 (line of sight following the weapon tube for wehicles...since the Exorcist's ones are directly upwards, well...).

And honestly, it would me more suited to their current appearance (I'm not talking about conversions from Whirlwinds or that blank FW model from that time). Since a Barrage Weapon with no Blast can be quite tricky to work within the current rules, it's better to use it the old good way.

Random Melta Missiles were always a bad idea at the core, IMHO. Especially in an army that has a "fire threat" at close range for most of its members.

That's been FAQ'd since 3rd edition. Anyone who'd argue that it can only fire upwards instead of as a turret mounted weapon deserves to be slapped upside the head. Exorcist Missiles aren't Melta and Random missiles are what make them unique and give the unit flavor. I know everything in 7th is going for Bland, but stay away from my Exorcists.

 Psienesis wrote:
If you want to haul a 20-Sister block across the battlefield, then you need an Ecclesiarchal version/variant of the Crassus. It would also take care of the fact that we don't have a dedicated Super-Heavy.

I like this idea.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Thinking of dedicated Super Heavies, would there be complaints about an Ecclesiarchy Stormlord?

The only downside to the LoW being our source of mass Sister conveyance is that we need lots of points to do it. Neither the CRASSUS ARMOURED ASSAULT TRANSPORT nor the Stormlord is particularly cheap, and they would prevent us from using Celestine in a single CAD army.

I wouldn't mind the 20 Sister Blobs if we could be faster, but with our short range, high cost versus chaff models like Guard or Gaunts, we could really use a proper option of some kind.

Something like a battle wagon?

 Psienesis wrote:
If you want to haul a 20-Sister block across the battlefield, then you need an Ecclesiarchal version/variant of the Crassus. It would also take care of the fact that we don't have a dedicated Super-Heavy.

I like this idea.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Thinking of dedicated Super Heavies, would there be complaints about an Ecclesiarchy Stormlord?

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 Psienesis wrote:
If you want to haul a 20-Sister block across the battlefield, then you need an Ecclesiarchal version/variant of the Crassus. It would also take care of the fact that we don't have a dedicated Super-Heavy.

I like this idea.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Thinking of dedicated Super Heavies, would there be complaints about an Ecclesiarchy Stormlord?

The only downside to the LoW being our source of mass Sister conveyance is that we need lots of points to do it. Neither the CRASSUS ARMOURED ASSAULT TRANSPORT nor the Stormlord is particularly cheap, and they would prevent us from using Celestine in a single CAD army.

I wouldn't mind the 20 Sister Blobs if we could be faster, but with our short range, high cost versus chaff models like Guard or Gaunts, we could really use a proper option of some kind.

Perhaps the Stormwolf (transport size: 16) or a Spartan (transport size: 25)? Stormwolves would fall under Dedicated Transports while Spartans would be Heavy Support.

No, the Stormwolf is hideous... also can't carry a full-strength squad of BSS, which is the point. Seraphim don't really need another way to get stuck in.

The Spartan might do it... and it looks really, really good... if you could replace at least one set of the TL lascannon sponsons with TL heavy flamers or some other Torrent flame-weapon.... and maybe stick TL multi-meltas in the other sponsons.

Why not just have the Sisters share Imperial Guard transport/super-heavy transport vehicles? That makes a lot more sense to me than them having all their own variants. Aesthetically, throw some Ecclesiarch bling on them and call it a day.

edit- Sorry, misread.

Wouldn't an IG vehicle with Ecc bling be an Ecc-version of the vehicle? I mean, a Rhino is a Rhino is a Rhino... paint it black and stick an =I= on it and now it's an Inquisitorial Rhino. Paint it blue and put an upside-down U on it and now it's the personal property of Marneus Calgar. I mean, yeah, it would be the same baseline vehicle as used by the IG... but the Ecc being the Ecc, they will not settle for hand-me-downs, they'll slap some laud hailers on it, scythe-bladed gold rims and some stacks belching clouds of incense and give it a new name.

Aye, hence the mis-read.

I interpreted the suggestion as developing all new snow-flake vehicles for them.

I wouldn't go with the Spartan since it's still basically a Land Raider (which is disappointing because it's flippin' awesome in design).

Which is exactly why they take it. They can roll by the Marines in their LRs, chugging along (the Spartan is noted as being faster, as it uses a new engine design), and stick their tongues out while they leave the genetically-engineered superfreaks sucking road dust and engine exhaust.

(insert pic of Anime SoB sticking her tongue out here.... cannot find the pic)

 Psienesis wrote:
Which is exactly why they take it. They can roll by the Marines in their LRs, chugging along (the Spartan is noted as being faster, as it uses a new engine design), and stick their tongues out while they leave the genetically-engineered superfreaks sucking road dust and engine exhaust.

(insert pic of Anime SoB sticking her tongue out here.... cannot find the pic)

The only problem I run into is that the Spartan Assault Tank is also called the Land Raider Spartan, which runs us right back into the "no Land Raiders" issue again. :(


Automatically Appended Next Post:
There is also this bit o' fluff:

The Spartan Assault Tank was used by most, if not all of the Space Marine Legions during the Great Crusade and the Horus Heresy, and after the Legions were broken down into Chapters during the Second Founding many of the newly-formed Space Marine units retained several of these vehicles in their armouries. It is unknown if the Adeptus Mechanicus is able to build new Spartan Assault Tanks in the late 41st Millennium or if the technology has been lost like so much else from the Great Crusade era.

The FW site says this about it

An armoured transport of truly massive proportions, the Spartan is a heavy assault tank previously all but unknown outside of the revered Space Marine Chapters and the secretive Adeptus Mechanicus.

... which implies that the AdMech *can* make more of them, since they seem to be making their way out of the Chapters and the AdMech's forces.

 BlaxicanX wrote:
Aye, hence the mis-read.

I interpreted the suggestion as developing all new snow-flake vehicles for them.

How are they snow-flake vehicles. Most Armies don't share their vehicles. The one exception is the Rhino which gets shared between Sisters and Space Marines. Imperial Guard don't share their vehicles with Space Marines so why should the Sisters of Battle share their vehicles with other Armies? They deserve their own unique vehicles.

Yes I'm aware that things like the Arvus Lighter and a bunch of other Forge World stuff gets shred between them, but I'm talking main Codex Entries.

 Psienesis wrote:
The FW site says this about it

An armoured transport of truly massive proportions, the Spartan is a heavy assault tank previously all but unknown outside of the revered Space Marine Chapters and the secretive Adeptus Mechanicus.

... which implies that the AdMech *can* make more of them, since they seem to be making their way out of the Chapters and the AdMech's forces.

If it's "all but unknown" outside of Marines and the Ad Mech then how can Sisters reasonably lay claim to any? It sounds rarer than hen's teeth.

Because in the grand scheme of Imperial society, there is no faction more powerful than the Ecclesiarchy.

... and as a Super-Heavy, make it a 0-1 option in the list. Rare and valuable, yes, but not impossible to acquire.

 Psienesis wrote:
Because in the grand scheme of Imperial society, there is no faction more powerful than the Ecclesiarchy.

... and as a Super-Heavy, make it a 0-1 option in the list. Rare and valuable, yes, but not impossible to acquire.

Except even the Ecclesiarchy can't have Land Raiders (as previously discussed) because of the Emperor's decree that only Marines have them.

And I'm looking at the rules right now, the Spartan is not a Super-heavy.

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 Psienesis wrote:
Because in the grand scheme of Imperial society, there is no faction more powerful than the Ecclesiarchy.

... and as a Super-Heavy, make it a 0-1 option in the list. Rare and valuable, yes, but not impossible to acquire.

Except even the Ecclesiarchy can't have Land Raiders (as previously discussed) because of the Emperor's decree that only Marines have them.

Much the same way the Ecclesiarchy was decreed that they weren't allowed to have men under arms serve, the Spartan isn't technically a Land Raider.

To be honest, making new vehicles is the easy part for Adepta Sororitas. I mean, you take anything from Space Marines list as base and add the Shield of Faith special rule with a small point increase (like 5 or 10, that's enough), and that's done (you can take it a bit further with some weapon change to fit the Holy Trinity of Melta, Bolter and Flamer).

But with the V7 Alliance System, our sisters can already use nearly everything they want from other lists. Even Battle Sisters in Drop Pods is possible, without any change in the rules needed.

About Super Heavies...well, they're not so many for now. Even Space Marines don't have dedicated Super Heavies if you don't take from Forgeworld. If taking a Stormlord, Baneblade or Imperial Knight can already be done with the rules as they are, why bother adding a "specific" one for the sisters when Space Marines don't even have it?

I'm not saying it's not possible to have a sanctified Stormlord with special rules, but to me, it's more suited for a specific scenario or campaign, like a Special Character made just for that game/campaign. And it's so easy to do, now!


About the Exorcist...well, it's not so great for us, in fact. It's such an obvious target while being horribly random. Most of my games, they were blowed up too soon or rolled a "1" on their number of shots at the most inappropriate time. Besides, when you look at them, they are much more like an artillery unit. Hell, even in the Dawn of War Soulstorm game, they were actually played like a Barrage Weapon!

If you need some long range antitank weaponry, now the answer is clear in V7: take allies. Like Grey Knights, Adepta Sororitas is quite specialized (they usually fight at close range, after all) and can't do everything only by themselves. That's the way of the V7, to me.

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 Psienesis wrote:
The FW site says this about it

An armoured transport of truly massive proportions, the Spartan is a heavy assault tank previously all but unknown outside of the revered Space Marine Chapters and the secretive Adeptus Mechanicus.

... which implies that the AdMech *can* make more of them, since they seem to be making their way out of the Chapters and the AdMech's forces.

If it's "all but unknown" outside of Marines and the Ad Mech then how can Sisters reasonably lay claim to any? It sounds rarer than hen's teeth.

Yeah, but then, so are Battle Sisters.

I like the idea of a Spartan. It's explicitly not a Land Raider, the name "Land Raider Spartan" is a fan-nickname that originates from when the first pictures were released.

I also like the idea of a Spartan with twin-linked flamestorm sponsons, or the old fan-invented Heavy Bolter / Heavy Flamer sponson combo.

 Sarouan wrote:
Even Space Marines don't have dedicated Super Heavies if you don't take from Forgeworld. If taking a Stormlord, Baneblade or Imperial Knight can already be done with the rules as they are, why bother adding a "specific" one for the sisters when Space Marines don't even have it?

Because -- setting aside my inveterate love for tanks -- SIsters have a different tactical role than Marines. The Astartes are a galactic Quick Reaction Force (QRF) first and foremost, intended to slam in hard and fast at the critical point, then pull out while the Imperial Guard pour in; no surprise their only superheavy in Escalation is an aerospacecraft, and an Assault Vehicle at that, the Thunderhawk. Sisters have a QRF role for the Ecclesiarchy, but they also have a long-time defense role on Shrine Worlds and major holy sites elsewhere, and they are the spearhead of Wars of Faith to (re)take territory. So while the Sisters don't need superheavies as much as the Guard, they still have more occasion to use them than the Marines.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Sarouan wrote:
If you need some long range antitank weaponry, now the answer is clear in V7: take allies. Like Grey Knights, Adepta Sororitas is quite specialized (they usually fight at close range, after all) and can't do everything only by themselves. That's the way of the V7, to me.

I like the new Allies and Detachment rules, a lot. I just want Sisters to be a reasonably self-sufficient force, rather than the narrow specialists they are now: they don't have to be GOOD at long-range anti-tank, but they should have some kind of workable solution to that particular tactical problem.

Again, I was thinking of an alternative warhead for the Exorcist, specifically an extended-range one (with worse S and AP). Of course, you could also put Hunter-Killer missiles on every Rhino, Immo, Exo, etc. and go "happy turn one alpha strike, Mister Knight!"

 SisterSydney wrote:

Because -- setting aside my inveterate love for tanks -- SIsters have a different tactical role than Marines. The Astartes are a galactic Quick Reaction Force (QRF) first and foremost, intended to slam in hard and fast at the critical point, then pull out while the Imperial Guard pour in; no surprise their only superheavy in Escalation is an aerospacecraft, and an Assault Vehicle at that, the Thunderhawk. Sisters have a QRF role for the Ecclesiarchy, but they also have a long-time defense role on Shrine Worlds and major holy sites elsewhere, and they are the spearhead of Wars of Faith to (re)take territory. So while the Sisters don't need superheavies as much as the Guard, they still have more occasion to use them than the Marines.

I can understand that, but to me, the way the Adepta Sororitas use tanks is more about they have what they can obtain via the Ecclesiarchy's relations. They aren't a regular army at all (it is quite clear since the civil war because of Goge Vandire and the famous decree that followed for the Ecclesiarchy); they are mostly used as escort or protection of a holy site and are more alike to the Pontifical Swiss Guard to me. When a Holy Crusade is ordered, sisters are sure to come along but it is the Astra Militarum that will be the main body. Sisters using some of the military assets from the Imperial Guard (or sometimes Adeptus Astartes...) is much more likely rather than having a lot of specific tanks to only themselves, if you look at the 40k background.

I can see them having "special" tanks for a very long time, sanctified iron beasts that will become more like mobile altars of faith - but it's unlikely they will be able to produce them in great numbers. It's more about the story of a particular crusade and the reasons that lead the sisters having "that" special Baneblade or Stormlord. I feel it's more like the named tank for Commissar Yarrick rather than the Exorcist, which is quite a special case.

Again, I was thinking of an alternative warhead for the Exorcist, specifically an extended-range one (with worse S and AP). Of course, you could also put Hunter-Killer missiles on every Rhino, Immo, Exo, etc. and go "happy turn one alpha strike, Mister Knight!"

I usually pop up "Mister Knight" with the good ol' Melta Gun or motivated Repentia sisters. Exorcists are way too random to actually base your tactics only on them. But yeah, I would love to have something else for them. Something more..."sister-like", I'll say. Like incendiary charges? Let's burn the heretics, I say, not just launching some boring random missiles!

But then, if there is a tank with only heavy melta guns on it for the sisters...I wouldn't mind. After all, I already made such a conversion myself. As well as my famous "Land Raider Trinity" (a Land Raider Redeemer with heavy bolter instead of assault cannon and twin heavy melta gun).

I'd think the alpha-strike answer to Knights with the current direction of the discussion would be a Drop Pod loaded with melta-Dominions, personally.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
On the subject of alternate Exorcist loadouts, how silly do folks think doing the normal d6 S8/Ap3 shots as one fire mode and then having one 'melta-warhead' or multiple Ignore Cover incendiary blasts as alternates would be?

The "normal" for the Exorcist is D6 S8, AP1. Nerfing that would be a kick in the knee caps.

When a Holy Crusade is ordered, sisters are sure to come along but it is the Astra Militarum that will be the main body. Sisters using some of the military assets from the Imperial Guard (or sometimes Adeptus Astartes...) is much more likely rather than having a lot of specific tanks to only themselves, if you look at the 40k background.

There are far more Wars of Faith waged between worlds in the Imperium than there are Crusades declared against worlds that lie outside of it. These are wars prosecuted by the Sisters, and supported by whatever devoted IG commander might have been in the area, and tides of the faithful against whatever heresy is being practiced by Those People Over There... and it is rather likely that many machines of war make their way into the arsenals of the Orders Militant through such means, either captured from heretics or recidivists, or donated to the Sisters by IG Commanders as an act of piety.

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 Josey4u wrote:
Can we do SOMETHING with an inferno pistol?

Like what? It's a melta pistol. I don't know how it could really become better because if we up the range then we need to up the cost to compete with the meltagun (especially since it gives an extra attack when paired with a CCW).

Oh, thinking about the Blade of Admonition, I'm looking at upping it's cost to 30 and giving it Killing Blow to fit the fluff that it may have been Dominica's sword (since she beheaded him in a single stroke).

Maybe letting it still use 2d6 for pen at 6"? IDK, I'm just throwing it out there. In truth, I often forget to use my pistols as CCWs. Please remind me when I use my plasma pistol in CC!!! I always use the stat line and add the pistol in.

Makes a big difference when you use Cypher. And as it would for the inferno pistol. AP1 kinda a big deal. Honestly though what you got going is great. Lets get this thing printed and out there.

And new figs please....

And new figs please....

I'm pretty sure RH will have its Order of Eternal Mercy out before we see new Sisters from GW.

Incendiary missiles as an alternative load-out for Exorcists -- I like that. Must stat something up soon...