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VanHallan wrote:
See, but you're missing the point just so you can use the same tired argument that all of you non painters always use.

There are plenty of things in life that I don't enjoy. 90% of the reason is because I suck at them.

Do I have to be a good cook to enjoy eating? Nope. Do I have to be a good painter to play 40k? Nope.

But to say I "don't have time to cook" is nonsense. "I don't have time to paint." is nonsense.

No one who plays 40k, given that they have time to collect, assemble, and play games can possibly be in position to suggest that they don't "have time" to paint.

If they say they dont like to paint, that's fine. No argument. They must suck at painting. I suck at playing the piano. It doesn't mean people who had time to get good at piano have no life. They just *chose* to spend their time learning something that I didn't.

Personally I find the initial statement demeaning to people who spend time to actually get good at something so that the person who posted it can get a false sense of pride out of their sheer laziness to progress in one area of life. Maybe they wouldn't like painting, but it has NOTHING to do with being too busy to paint. That is just pure BS, so I'm calling him on it. If you don't like it, aww shucks.

Except it is that he's too busy. He's too busy to dedicate a significant amount of time to something he doesn't enjoy. He enjoys taking his wife and kids to dinner. He enjoys playing 40k. He enjoys sleeping in. He doesn't enjoy painting.
If he has time for 3 activities on a Saturday, which 3 are going to get picked? If you include the one he doesn't enjoy (and isn't required to do) you're fooling yourself. By that standard, he's too busy to paint.

Do you know him personally? His post states nothing of what you typed. Just says he doesn't have time to spend on painting. He does, as I pointed out and you are now acknowledging. He chooses not to, and chalks it up to having "a life" as if those who do paint don't. Its a joke.

Its kind of like the people that play golf and spend money on new gear and gizmos all the time but wont invest in lessons or practicing on a regular basis. You know, because they don't have time to do anything but suck at golf. Sorry to hear about that. Don't demean people who do put in the effort by saying you have a life, because that's just a bunch of thinnly veiled manure.

VanHallan wrote:
Do you know him personally? His post states nothing of what you typed. Just says he doesn't have time to spend on painting. He does, as I pointed out and you are now acknowledging. He chooses not to, and chalks it up to having "a life" as if those who do paint don't. Its a joke.

No - he personally doesn't. I'm sure that if he chose to, he could - but that's irrelevant. His statement is (very likely) true.

Its kind of like the people that play golf and spend money on new gear and gizmos all the time but wont invest in lessons or practicing on a regular basis. You know, because they don't have time to do anything but suck at golf. Sorry to hear about that. Don't demean people who do put in the effort by saying you have a life, because that's just a bunch of thinnly veiled manure.

Sure, he could have chosen a better phrase but the point came across fine to those that aren't overly sensitive.

Well, being that this thread is all about the most annoying things players do, I find this attitude to be most annoying. In life- not just as it relates to 40k. people who are just flat out lazy and justify it with nonsense. that annoys me.

VanHallan wrote:
Well, being that this thread is all about the most annoying things players do, I find this attitude to be most annoying. In life- not just as it relates to 40k. people who are just flat out lazy and justify it with nonsense. that annoys me.

So it's "flat out lazy" to not paint? I just want to understand your statement.

i don't care if he paints or not. I don't have to look at his piss poor effort. Its the attitude that is lazy. "I don't have time" for this or that is a lazy cover all excuse for not doing something that should be done. I'm sure a lot of fat people don't have time to exercise. You know what i mean yet?

VanHallan wrote:
i don't care if he paints or not. I don't have to look at his piss poor effort. Its the attitude that is lazy. "I don't have time" for this or that is a lazy cover all excuse for not doing something that should be done. I'm sure a lot of fat people don't have time to exercise. You know what i mean yet?

So anyone that "doesn't have time" for something is automatically lazy. Gotcha. Thanks for letting me know to put you on ignore. Have a great day!

VanHallan wrote:
i don't care if he paints or not. I don't have to look at his piss poor effort. Its the attitude that is lazy. "I don't have time" for this or that is a lazy cover all excuse for not doing something that should be done. I'm sure a lot of fat people don't have time to exercise. You know what i mean yet?

Why do you think painting models "should be done"?

Do you have a single line of objective reasoning to support the assertion that painting your models is a necessity rather than a hobbyist choice beyond your very personal and, ultimately irrelevant, beliefs?

Thanks for thinking I give a feth what you read.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 BlaxicanX wrote:

VanHallan wrote:
i don't care if he paints or not. I don't have to look at his piss poor effort. Its the attitude that is lazy. "I don't have time" for this or that is a lazy cover all excuse for not doing something that should be done. I'm sure a lot of fat people don't have time to exercise. You know what i mean yet?

Why do you think painting models "should be done"?

Do you have a single line of objective reasoning to support the assertion that painting your models is a necessity beyond your very personal and, ultimately irrelevant, beliefs?

You can read piles of pages on this subject. We don't agree. next.

Haha. Okay, so you don't.

Basically, you have an idea of what "real 40K" is, and you impose that idea on other players and look down on them for not conforming to it.

Why not just say that? It'd save you so much time arguing with people.

 BlaxicanX wrote:

VanHallan wrote:
i don't care if he paints or not. I don't have to look at his piss poor effort. Its the attitude that is lazy. "I don't have time" for this or that is a lazy cover all excuse for not doing something that should be done. I'm sure a lot of fat people don't have time to exercise. You know what i mean yet?

Why do you think painting models "should be done"?

Do you have a single line of objective reasoning to support the assertion that painting your models is a necessity rather than a hobbyist choice beyond your very personal and, ultimately irrelevant, beliefs?

I mean, they're sold as grey plastic from a company that also sells paints and every box says "models require painting and assembly."

Do you have to paint models to play the game? No. But the argument that models aren't meant to be painted is pretty thin. It definitely "should be done."

So what if they're solid as grey plastic? They're also sold with a price. Does that mean that you "should" take your 40K models and sell them to somebody because they've been assigned a dollar value? The game mentions "mysterious terrain", does that mean that if you don't use mysterious terrain in your games, you're not playing "real 40K"? What about if you're not using Citadel Woods?

Nonsense. You have no obligation or "ought to be" way to handle your models. You paid money for them, the only thing you "should" do with them is whatever the hell you like. That could be painting them, that could be melting them down and turning them into candle wax. It doesn't really matter.

I'm not interested in your point of view because I didn't ask for it. You asked for mine. My point of view is this. If you have to ask why I think models should be painted, and the FACT that every single model is pictured painted on the package, every single page of white dwarf is full of painted models, every single piece of marketing material on GW's hobby includes painted miniatures and that for god knows what reason doesn't connect the dots for you then I'm not interested in explaining it to you. I don't like playing with unpainted models.

I don't like playing against unpainted models. I'm not saying I don't like PEOPLE who don't paint their models. But if you're honestly going to make the argument that the models aren't SUPPOSED to be painted then make it to someone else. I don't care to read about it.

VanHallan wrote:
I'm not interested in your point of view because I didn't ask for it.

I don't care to read about it.

This is a public forum, so you can either ignore the posts or read them- either way, much like the preferences for painted models, your desires are irrelevant to everyone who isn't you.

My point of view is this. If you have to ask why I think models should be painted, and the FACT that every single model is pictured painted on the package, every single page of white dwarf is full of painted models, every single piece of marketing material on GW's hobby includes painted miniatures and that for god knows what reason doesn't connect the dots for you then I'm not interested in explaining it to you. I don't like playing with unpainted models.

I didn't ask whether or not you prefer to play against painted models, that you do is self-evident. What I asked is whether your condescension toward other players was based off of anything beyond your personal preferences for the game. Apparently it isn't, and that's perfectly fine man. You're totally entitled to hold others to your standards, but let's just call it what it is. They really are nothing more than your standards. There is no universal "ought-to-be" for being a proper 40K hobbyist that players are committing sacrilege against by not painting their models.

VanHallan wrote:
See, but you're missing the point just so you can use the same tired argument that all of you non painters always use.

There are plenty of things in life that I don't enjoy. 90% of the reason is because I suck at them.

Do I have to be a good cook to enjoy eating? Nope. Do I have to be a good painter to play 40k? Nope.

But to say I "don't have time to cook" is nonsense. "I don't have time to paint." is nonsense.

No one who plays 40k, given that they have time to collect, assemble, and play games can possibly be in position to suggest that they don't "have time" to paint.

If they say they dont like to paint, that's fine. No argument. They must suck at painting. I suck at playing the piano. It doesn't mean people who had time to get good at piano have no life. They just *chose* to spend their time learning something that I didn't.

Personally I find the initial statement demeaning to people who spend time to actually get good at something so that the person who posted it can get a false sense of pride out of their sheer laziness to progress in one area of life. Maybe they wouldn't like painting, but it has NOTHING to do with being too busy to paint. That is just pure BS, so I'm calling him on it. If you don't like it, aww shucks.

I think some of your other responders are misunderstanding what you're saying, but I totally get it. When people clearly have time for something and just say "don't have time," it comes across as derogatory towards those who did make time for it. Like "my life is busier and more important than yours." Seriously, everyone has at least an hour or two laying around in their typical day. You don't have to spend the whole chunk painting, but you could just basecoat a model in like 5 minutes, and then enjoy your other 1:55.

Instead of lying, they could just say "I'm a terrible painter, and wouldn't be happy with my own work," or something similar.

I never believe anyone who says "I don't have time" unless they show me their 3.5 full time high-activity jobs that they have simultaneously. I just assume their lies are actually code for "I hung out too late then slept in today."

I understand the painting issue. It's actually kind of hard to make yourself sit down and go on a painting spree. What I've done is spend a few minutes prepping things in my paint area at home, like getting the models out and such. Get home from work, either basecoat or paint one detail on like 3 similar models in 5 minutes, toss my paint water and do it again the next night.

You're right I was being an donkey-cave. Sorry. Was on an extremely frustrating phone call between posts there. Not a good excuse for being a jerk. I'm equally guilty of being lazy when it comes to learning the game. I don't mean to insult anybody who doesn't paint, I just think the excuse of not having time is weak. I have time to read the rules, I just dont because I know they mean little to me until I can actually perform the functions. I dont know if that makes sense or not, but I mean to say I know what its like to be looked down on in this hobby, and its no ones fault but mine in that regard.

I have a really hard time learning a game by reading a rule book, and I have to play games to figure it out. At the very least, I try to bring painted models to the table so I can at least look good while getting tabled. Its just one of those things


Automatically Appended Next Post:

VanHallan wrote:
You're right I was being an donkey-cave. Sorry. Was on an extremely frustrating phone call between posts there. Not a good excuse for being a jerk. I'm equally guilty of being lazy when it comes to learning the game. I don't mean to insult anybody who doesn't paint, I just think the excuse of not having time is weak. I have time to read the rules, I just dont because I know they mean little to me until I can actually perform the functions. I dont know if that makes sense or not, but I mean to say I know what its like to be looked down on in this hobby, and its no ones fault but mine in that regard.

I have a really hard time learning a game by reading a rule book, and I have to play games to figure it out. At the very least, I try to bring painted models to the table so I can at least look good while getting tabled. Its just one of those things

Yes this is what I was trying to say. Thanks.

niv-mizzet wrote:

VanHallan wrote:
See, but you're missing the point just so you can use the same tired argument that all of you non painters always use.

There are plenty of things in life that I don't enjoy. 90% of the reason is because I suck at them.

Do I have to be a good cook to enjoy eating? Nope. Do I have to be a good painter to play 40k? Nope.

But to say I "don't have time to cook" is nonsense. "I don't have time to paint." is nonsense.

No one who plays 40k, given that they have time to collect, assemble, and play games can possibly be in position to suggest that they don't "have time" to paint.

If they say they dont like to paint, that's fine. No argument. They must suck at painting. I suck at playing the piano. It doesn't mean people who had time to get good at piano have no life. They just *chose* to spend their time learning something that I didn't.

Personally I find the initial statement demeaning to people who spend time to actually get good at something so that the person who posted it can get a false sense of pride out of their sheer laziness to progress in one area of life. Maybe they wouldn't like painting, but it has NOTHING to do with being too busy to paint. That is just pure BS, so I'm calling him on it. If you don't like it, aww shucks.

I think some of your other responders are misunderstanding what you're saying, but I totally get it. When people clearly have time for something and just say "don't have time," it comes across as derogatory towards those who did make time for it. Like "my life is busier and more important than yours." Seriously, everyone has at least an hour or two laying around in their typical day. You don't have to spend the whole chunk painting, but you could just basecoat a model in like 5 minutes, and then enjoy your other 1:55.

Instead of lying, they could just say "I'm a terrible painter, and wouldn't be happy with my own work," or something similar.

I never believe anyone who says "I don't have time" unless they show me their 3.5 full time high-activity jobs that they have simultaneously. I just assume their lies are actually code for "I hung out too late then slept in today."

I understand the painting issue. It's actually kind of hard to make yourself sit down and go on a painting spree. What I've done is spend a few minutes prepping things in my paint area at home, like getting the models out and such. Get home from work, either basecoat or paint one detail on like 3 similar models in 5 minutes, toss my paint water and do it again the next night.

But they're not lying. It takes me ~20 minutes to set up my paint area and an equal amount of time to take it down. I can't leave it set up - I have a dog, a toddler, and soon a newborn that would wreak havoc with it because of where it has to be in the home. I don't get any satisfaction out of setup and takedown so there's no such thing as a "5 minute basecoat" - it's the better part of an hour at best.
There are dozens of things I'd rather be doing than painting - like spending time with my family. Why is it that all my time must be occupied with a "high activity job" for it to be a valid "time sink"? Family time isn't valid? Relaxation isn't valid? Other hobbies aren't valid? Sleep isn't valid?

Sorry, I won't apologize for saying "I didn't have time to change my oil." when I spent the entire day at my grandfather's 90th birthday party. According to you, that's a lie.

You won't read this, but what you're talking about is priorities. I was talking about time.

VanHallan wrote:
You won't read this, but what you're talking about is priorities. I was talking about time.

And if after dealing with things that are higher priority, I don't have time to paint?

Then you would say painting isn't a priority for me. Not that you don't have time. Saying you don't have time to paint means that given enough time, you would paint. These people would not paint regardless of how much time it took. They don't like it, they don't want to get good at it, and they for some reason think the game is enough fun to justify spending money on, but time? not so much. I'd much rather spend more time on something than money.

And so we're back at the golf analogy. What kind of golfer do you want to play with? The one that spends 2k every couple years on new clubs, or the one that spends a few hundred every month on lessons to get better at the game?

Not saying there is a right or wrong answer to it but if your goal is to just go out drink beers and whack a ball around for the hell of it, stay way from the guy taking the game(hobby) seriously and go show off with the guy with new flashy clubs every so often.

The golf course is big enough for the both of us, i think.

One of the "don't have time to paint" guys that I know has no job, no relationship, no school, and spends a lot of time on an MMO. When he looks someone in the eyes and says he "doesn't have time," I feel like he needs to be slapped.
But as I said earlier, if he just said "I don't want to ruin my army with my own poor painting," I'd be more understanding.

The time someone spends working up the money to buy and assemble the models is quite significant. The time it takes to work up the money to buy expensive brushes and paints, and learn how to use and apply them might be pushing the limit of the time they can realistically dedicate to the game. Oh the horror they play a different game with their spare time as well?! And an MMO at that?!? Chill, It's called prioritising and juggling two (or more) leisure activities, painting up army mens is a long time consuming process that is zero fun for certain people, but even if it was probably wouldn't get done for them as it's a non-required part of playing 40k - the game works without it, and they've already dedicated a LOT of time and money just to get to the point they are at WIH 40k.

On he other hand, it does feel sometimes a bit like, well why stop there? This is a thematic game with poor rules, built largely off the lore which your ugly collection of models with any number of rainbow colours and I painted units do a great job of ruining both in feel and immersion, and seeing as you have already payed all that money to be just a part of it, why not finish up what you've started for every bodies benefit? Yes it is much more pleasing to play against a fully painted army. I'm a person who will not put a model on the table unless it's 95% finished. The 5% being if I have temporarily run out of basing materials I will allow myself to put it on the table till i do. The mix match of colours half of which are grey, irritates me no end so I can see where the complaints stem from. But I'm also not so self absorbed that I can't take a second to wonder why people do it. Yes, the whole "don't have time to paint it" is an excuse, whether true or not, I see people having to use it defensively because over-aggressive dicks can't grasp the concept that 40k is not a full time hobby for some, who are indeed juggling many other things and do not necessarily wish to spend their leisure time painting up 2000 points of warhammer that they might just play once or twice a fortnight.

Players who only look at one end of the measuring tape. yes the end is past your target, but the other end is now nowhere near your unit so youre actually out of range you muppet.

The number of times ive had to hold the tape measure still so they cant pull this crap is insane.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 gwarsh41 wrote:
I really dislike a lot of little things.

When people move an extra 1/4th inch because they moved the tape measure as well (usually on accident, but I feel like an ass pointing it out)

When people can't seem to tell which direction the scatter dice points.

When people nickle and dime movement. Move 6, then re-arrange a few times to get another inch.

When people dont measure weapons from the base, or the proper weapon.

People who snatch up dice too fast, or roll too far for the other player to see.

People who bitch and moan about my armies lore.


Those were all from the same opponent too.

OMG the scatter dice thing. so many people just cannot draw a straight line. or position a blast template correctly.

when people don't know their rules.
It is ok to look something up. But if you field a freakin' flyer I expect you to know what "gliding", "zooming", "hovering" and all that stuff is.
Also going to look up the profile on every weapon in every shooting phase... Seriously.
If you show up to a gaming night, have the decency to READ the rules at least ONCE so you do not play lookuphammer 40k.

Ok, painting people.

STOP FETHING ARGUING

Different people have different ideas and we all have a right to proclaim them

But arguing about slapping paint on a model is just

ITS FREAKING TOY SOLDIERS FOR CHRISTSAKE!!!

VanHallan wrote:
See, but you're missing the point just so you can use the same tired argument that all of you non painters always use.

There are plenty of things in life that I don't enjoy. 90% of the reason is because I suck at them.

Do I have to be a good cook to enjoy eating? Nope. Do I have to be a good painter to play 40k? Nope.

But to say I "don't have time to cook" is nonsense. "I don't have time to paint." is nonsense.

No one who plays 40k, given that they have time to collect, assemble, and play games can possibly be in position to suggest that they don't "have time" to paint.

If they say they dont like to paint, that's fine. No argument. They must suck at painting. I suck at playing the piano. It doesn't mean people who had time to get good at piano have no life. They just *chose* to spend their time learning something that I didn't.

Personally I find the initial statement demeaning to people who spend time to actually get good at something so that the person who posted it can get a false sense of pride out of their sheer laziness to progress in one area of life. Maybe they wouldn't like painting, but it has NOTHING to do with being too busy to paint. That is just pure BS, so I'm calling him on it. If you don't like it, aww shucks.

It wasen't engineered to thrash people who do sit and paint, part of the way i worded it was fueled by the few threads where people refuse to play against an unpainted army or think its the worst thing ever next to hitler. I do enjoy seeing the nicely painted armies on here but actually i do not have alot of time to commit to painting, i work third shift 50 hour weeks so my free time is generally settles on sleep and general household maintance...when i occasionally have no prior plans for my free time i'll squeeze a few games in with friends. The large majority of my figs were pre assembled before i bought them( cheaper then new boxed stuff) .

One thing that really irks me is those players who get offended when you challenge their notion of the rules...sure, there are plenty of times when I look up a rule to question someone and find that they are indeed correct. But there's also plenty of times when I look into a rule and find that they have it wrong, as an honest mistake.

We all make mistakes to some degree or another when playing the game. Rules change. Memory and reading comprehension skills are always imperfect. Way I see it, you shouldn't be offended when someone suggests you might be misinterpreting/forgetting a rule. I think the best way to have a game that sticks to the rules is having both players routinely check the other.

My main peeve is an opponent who either walks away from the table a bunch or just acts disinterested and bored. We are playing a game, which we both agreed to, please at least have the decency to show me enough respect by playing that game rather than walking off all the time. Also cell phones, it's ok if you check it and use it a little, but if you're on the bloody thing the whole time them why are you playing to begin with?

my only issue with the "dont have time crowd" is this: sit out from 1 or 2 games, paint your models to bare basic, basecoat and color the gun, with 40k, you could go through 20 models in an hour and make the game way more enjoyable for everyone. if you hate painting dont, but find a better excuse then "dont have time" please.

 Brennonjw wrote:
my only issue with the "dont have time crowd" is this: sit out from 1 or 2 games, paint your models to bare basic, basecoat and color the gun, with 40k, you could go through 20 models in an hour and make the game way more enjoyable for everyone. if you hate painting dont, but find a better excuse then "dont have time" please.

Some people enjoy playing more than painting. Who cares?