Switch Theme:

Imperial Guards = worst thing ever in the Warhammer 40k?  [RSS] Share on facebook Share on Twitter Submit to Reddit
»
Author Message
Advert


Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
  • No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
  • Times and dates in your local timezone.
  • Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
  • Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
  • Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now.




Made in au
Homicidal Veteran Blood Angel Assault Marine




Oz

My conclusion is that i'd rather be shot by a tank in the far future - if things get that bad, i'll take that 17% chance. I thought the game was about forging the narrative?

 
   
Made in gb
Dakka Veteran




 Peregrine wrote:
bibotot wrote:
Swords, Power Armor and Daemons are what make up the Gothic theme of the game.


So are things like trench warfare with plasma guns.

Imperial Guards are ripoff from Star Wars and Starship troopers, with excellent portrayals in books but terrible representation on the tabletop.


No, they have absolutely nothing to do with either of those IPs. If anyone in 40k is a Starship Troopers ripoff it's the space marines and Tau crisis suits (in fact, give the Tau nuclear missiles on their crisis suits and you've got a perfect Starship Troopers clone). And unless there's some obscure EU thing that matches 40k the only thing in common between Star Wars and the IG is that both of them have human soldiers with guns (something that 95% of scifi armies have).


If they have the technology to make plasma gun, would they also have what it takes to perform Blitzkrieg?

Discipline and combat doctrines of AM are similar to that in Starship Troopers. Both of the have very harsh, warlike organization which sees the individual as next to nothing. They both use human wave tactics. Arguably, the Tyranids are 40k version of Arachnids.

Sentinels are 40k version of ATST.

Also, the Imperial Guards resemble the Nazis, but have none of their good points. They even have Commissars. fething COMMUNIST COMMISSARS! Tau are communists.
   
Made in gb
Killer Klaivex




The dark behind the eyes.

I can't believe I'm having to ask this, but which of the Nazi's good points are IG lacking?

 blood reaper wrote:
I will respect human rights and trans people but I will never under any circumstances use the phrase 'folks' or 'ya'll'. I would rather be killed by firing squad.



 the_scotsman wrote:
Yeah, when i read the small novel that is the Death Guard unit options and think about resolving the attacks from a melee-oriented min size death guard squad, the thing that springs to mind is "Accessible!"

 Argive wrote:
GW seems to have a crystal ball and just pulls hairbrained ideas out of their backside for the most part.


 Andilus Greatsword wrote:

"Prepare to open fire at that towering Wraithknight!"
"ARE YOU DAFT MAN!?! YOU MIGHT HIT THE MEN WHO COME UP TO ITS ANKLES!!!"


Akiasura wrote:
I hate to sound like a serial killer, but I'll be reaching for my friend occam's razor yet again.


 insaniak wrote:

You're not. If you're worried about your opponent using 'fake' rules, you're having fun the wrong way. This hobby isn't about rules. It's about buying Citadel miniatures.

Please report to your nearest GW store for attitude readjustment. Take your wallet.
 
   
Made in gb
Dakka Veteran




 vipoid wrote:
I can't believe I'm having to ask this, but which of the Nazi's good points are IG lacking?


Efficiency, competence, zealotry. Nazis don't have commissars, because they are a bunch of fanatics. The Nazis killed five times as many Russians in the Eastern Front. On the tabletop, Guardsmen will break unless you put a commissar in there, and their lasgun can't kill gak and you will always have less than 1:1 kill-ratio, except against Nids horde.

I am not trying to praise the Nazis here, but their military was one of the best in the world. It took the effort of multiple countries to bring them down. If the numbers were equal, the Germans would have the advantage.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2014/11/16 11:18:07


 
   
Made in dk
Infiltrating Prowler






bibotot wrote:
 Peregrine wrote:
bibotot wrote:
Swords, Power Armor and Daemons are what make up the Gothic theme of the game.


So are things like trench warfare with plasma guns.

Imperial Guards are ripoff from Star Wars and Starship troopers, with excellent portrayals in books but terrible representation on the tabletop.


No, they have absolutely nothing to do with either of those IPs. If anyone in 40k is a Starship Troopers ripoff it's the space marines and Tau crisis suits (in fact, give the Tau nuclear missiles on their crisis suits and you've got a perfect Starship Troopers clone). And unless there's some obscure EU thing that matches 40k the only thing in common between Star Wars and the IG is that both of them have human soldiers with guns (something that 95% of scifi armies have).


If they have the technology to make plasma gun, would they also have what it takes to perform Blitzkrieg?

Discipline and combat doctrines of AM are similar to that in Starship Troopers. Both of the have very harsh, warlike organization which sees the individual as next to nothing. They both use human wave tactics. Arguably, the Tyranids are 40k version of Arachnids.

Sentinels are 40k version of ATST.

Also, the Imperial Guards resemble the Nazis, but have none of their good points. They even have Commissars. fething COMMUNIST COMMISSARS! Tau are communists.


IG takes the aesthetics from WW:I. Have the officers and the ruthless doctrine from the Russian army of WW:II, not Starship Troopers.
IIRC the Tyranids are a grim dark spinoff of the Alien franchise, so much in fact that I believe GW was sued for it.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/11/16 12:09:00


 
   
Made in us
Imperial Guard Landspeeder Pilot




On moon miranda.

bibotot wrote:
 vipoid wrote:
I can't believe I'm having to ask this, but which of the Nazi's good points are IG lacking?


Efficiency, competence, zealotry. Nazis don't have commissars, because they are a bunch of fanatics.
One might make the case that the SS were, but (at least relative to the time), the average German soldier was hardly a fanatic, but simply well disciplined. The Feldgendarmerie was eventually tasked with things like shooting retreating troops when things started going bad post '43.

The Nazis killed five times as many Russians in the Eastern Front.
Closer to 1.5-2x, not 5x. Also by the end of the war the Red Army was far more competent than they usually get credit for.

On the tabletop, Guardsmen will break unless you put a commissar in there, and their lasgun can't kill gak and you will always have less than 1:1 kill-ratio, except against Nids horde.
That's because most tabletop games aren't playing against 90% of the IG's most common enemies, which are rebels, unassimilated humans, pirates, small random Xenos empires that are crushed all the time, etc. (Tyranids and Orks aside).

Most of the IG's games are played against foes they often would rarely face, and at ranges where their greatest assets aren't able to be utilized. It wouldn't be a particularly fun game if your IG force simply routed coordinates to an artillery battery and simply carpet bombarded the table with dozens of ordnance blasts. Within the 40k universe, foes like Space Marines/Chaos Space Marines, or Eldar, or Necrons would be very rare indeed for most IG troops, often rare to the point of being nearly mythical. When you're comparing basic guardsmen to genetically engineered and psycho-indoctrinated super soldiers, or ancient "super-people" aliens with lifetimes measured in centuries, or the daemonic forces of unreality, even relatively elite human soldiers often seem somewhat underwhelming.

Casualty rates also are somewhat odd in 40k. Playing largely mechanized armies when running a codex list, its not uncommon at all that I'll end a game having taken roughly equal (or fewer) casualties with even relatively elite opponents. I played against a Daemon army today, tabled it with my IG, and lost three relatively cheap IFV's and fewer than twenty-five Guardsmen in a 1500pt game while destroying over four dozen Daemon infantry, a Daemon Prince, some Daemonic Cavalry, and two Soul Grinders. My last game against Dark Eldar I destroyed about 40 Dark Eldar, four DE vehicles, and an allied Knight, for the loss of fourteen guarsmen and a Chimera. Even my last loss, against Space Marines, I still killed roughly three dozen marines and two tanks (and a pod) for the loss of five tanks and three dozen guardsmen.

Guardsmen morale is pretty equal to their equivalents in other armies, having identical Ld to Fire Warriors, with a sergeant they're equal to Eldar Guardians, similar to Ork mobs, etc.

The one beef I have is that the truly elite stuff like Scions/Stormtroopers still have basic Ld and WS, they really should have some better stats and a gun that isn't S3 and 18" rapid fire, but GW seems to think AP3 is a magical-fix-all...but I digress, that's another thread.

Also, not all IG forces are straight IG codex style forces either. You have subfactions like the Death Korps which have very stiff morale, but just aren't covered by the basic Codex.

IRON WITHIN, IRON WITHOUT.

New Heavy Gear Log! Also...Grey Knights!
The correct pronunciation is Imperial Guard and Stormtroopers, "Astra Militarum" and "Tempestus Scions" are something you'll find at Hogwarts.  
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut





The Golden Throne

OP- My 50 man Invisible/Divinated-Tiggy/Yarrick/Priest/PriPsyker squad disagrees with you.
   
Made in us
Douglas Bader






bibotot wrote:
If they have the technology to make plasma gun, would they also have what it takes to perform Blitzkrieg?


If they have the technology to make a plasma gun then why do space marines run screaming at the enemy and kill them with swords? IG are WWI in space for the same theme reasons that melee weapons are still relevant.

Discipline and combat doctrines of AM are similar to that in Starship Troopers. Both of the have very harsh, warlike organization which sees the individual as next to nothing. They both use human wave tactics. Arguably, the Tyranids are 40k version of Arachnids.


Err, no. Go read the book and ignore the movie, which was a parody of the book (especially Heinlein's political argument). The humans are elite super-soldiers in power armor with jetpacks and tactical nukes. They drop pod in from orbit, kill everything, and move on to the next target. In fact, you might even suggest that GW's space marines and Tau crisis suits were "inspired" by Starship Troopers.

(And no, the movie isn't relevant. It didn't exist at all until long after GW created the IG.)

Sentinels are 40k version of ATST.


Or any other bipedal light scout walker. They're only superficially similar to the AT-ST. And if a single minor unit is your best example of how the IG is a Star Wars clone then I'll take it as a concession of defeat.

There is no such thing as a hobby without politics. "Leave politics at the door" is itself a political statement, an endorsement of the status quo and an attempt to silence dissenting voices. 
   
Made in us
Grim Rune Priest in the Eye of the Storm





Riverside CA

Yes the APE Suits are much closer to Centurions.

The Animated SST was much closer to the books.

Space Wolf Player Since 1989
My First Impression Threads:
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/727226.page;jsessionid=3BCA26863DCC17CF82F647B2839DA6E5

I am a Furry that plays with little Toy Soldiers; if you are taking me too seriously I am not the only one with Issues.

IEGA Web Site”: http://www.meetup.com/IEGA-InlandEmpireGamersAssociation/ 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





Im convinced at this point Bibotot is just trolling but I do want to touch on a few of his "thoughts":


-Yes trench warfare and other older forms of warfare are still in use and why shouldn't they be? Just because it was developed at an earlier time does not make it obsolete, in fact to this day modern militaries make uses of trenches, foxholes and fortifications to the best of their ability.

-The Lasgun is a very powerful weapon, more powerful then any basic small arms we have today, however it is reflected as being weak in the rules and the fluff NOT because it is weak but because the opponents the IG are facing are that strong, you are thinking of it backwards.

-Of course there are going to be similarities and things based off other Sci-Fi games and actual history, it is one of the appeals of being an IG player to theme an army based off WWII Russians, Germans ect. Also you can look at any Sci-Fi game and see similarities to other games or universes.

-In regards to your "Nazis were better comment" you are only half correct. Over 90% of the German Wermacht was not part of the Nazi party, the SS units however were. I am a history major so this is an accurate statement, it is one of the reasons Rommel despised Hiter. And that is also reflected in the game rules, you can construct an army of Veterans (BS4 with access to x3 Special Weapons) to represent a more elite unit in the 41st Millenium.

19th Krieg Siege Army 7500pts.
40k/HH Night Lords 5000pts.
Orks Waaaghmacht Spearhead 2500pts.
 
   
Made in gb
Courageous Space Marine Captain






Glasgow, Scotland

@gmaleron

Just one thing: As a history major, you should know that name dropping (or in this case, qualification-we-don't-have-any-way-of-verifying- dropping) is not how you prove something. You have to use accurate numbers and sources and not say "This is true because I say so."

I'm celebrating 8 years on Dakka Dakka!
I started an Instagram! Follow me at Deadshot Miniatures!
DR:90+S++G+++M+B+IPw40k08#-D+++A+++/cwd363R+++T(Ot)DM+
Check out my Deathwatch story, Aftermath in the fiction section!

Credit to Castiel for banner. Thanks Cas!
 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





 Deadshot wrote:
@gmaleron

Just one thing: As a history major, you should know that name dropping (or in this case, qualification-we-don't-have-any-way-of-verifying- dropping) is not how you prove something. You have to use accurate numbers and sources and not say "This is true because I say so."


Not proving anything? Was just stating a fact that ive learned in my course? Not writing a paper, this is an online forum so I don't think the "proper" way of doing this is really necessary here.

19th Krieg Siege Army 7500pts.
40k/HH Night Lords 5000pts.
Orks Waaaghmacht Spearhead 2500pts.
 
   
Made in us
Hauptmann




Hogtown

As a fellow history major, I hope the citations in your papers are little more thorough.

Thought for the day
 
   
Made in us
5th God of Chaos! (Yea'rly!)




The Great State of Texas

You have to play EPIC to see guard really shine. Massed artillery barrages from artillery parks at distance, superheavy transports, combined arms options, tank companies. Even the basic infantry squad with its autocannon is a decne tformation for the cost, and their company support is impressive, most impressive. Thats without adding in a few titans.

-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
 
   
Made in gb
Hurr! Ogryn Bone 'Ead!





Bibotot doesn't know what he's talking about as regards Starship Troopers. I bet he hasn't read the book, and I'd even wager he didn't know it was a book anyway.

He dislikes Guard aesthetics, therefore our appreciation of them is wrong and they're not allowed to contribute to the Grim Dark Gothic-ness. How silly of us.

Death Korps of Krieg Siege Army 1500 
   
Made in us
Imperial Guard Landspeeder Pilot




On moon miranda.

To be fair, many guard players don't like lots of Imperial Guard aesthetics

The Catachan's to me look absurd, the basic Cadians all look like they're wearing "seizure-safety" helmets with gigantic heads and facial expressions that convey intense and painful constipation, and the less said about Rough Riders the better.

But between the Steel Legion, Valhallans, DKoK, Elysians, Vostroyans, etc, there's a lot of very cool stuff.

IRON WITHIN, IRON WITHOUT.

New Heavy Gear Log! Also...Grey Knights!
The correct pronunciation is Imperial Guard and Stormtroopers, "Astra Militarum" and "Tempestus Scions" are something you'll find at Hogwarts.  
   
Made in gb
Killer Klaivex




The dark behind the eyes.

 Vaktathi wrote:
To be fair, many guard players don't like lots of Imperial Guard aesthetics

The Catachan's to me look absurd, the basic Cadians all look like they're wearing "seizure-safety" helmets with gigantic heads and facial expressions that convey intense and painful constipation, and the less said about Rough Riders the better.


Agreed. Cadians look like they've wrapped mattresses around their heads, and suffer the same problem as Catachans - in that their heads look like someone carved vaguely-human features into some deformed potatoes.

 Vaktathi wrote:

But between the Steel Legion, Valhallans, DKoK, Elysians, Vostroyans, etc, there's a lot of very cool stuff.


I just wish GW was actually supporting that 'cool stuff'.

I'd certainly like be able to buy a Death Korps army without first needing to win the Lottery.

 blood reaper wrote:
I will respect human rights and trans people but I will never under any circumstances use the phrase 'folks' or 'ya'll'. I would rather be killed by firing squad.



 the_scotsman wrote:
Yeah, when i read the small novel that is the Death Guard unit options and think about resolving the attacks from a melee-oriented min size death guard squad, the thing that springs to mind is "Accessible!"

 Argive wrote:
GW seems to have a crystal ball and just pulls hairbrained ideas out of their backside for the most part.


 Andilus Greatsword wrote:

"Prepare to open fire at that towering Wraithknight!"
"ARE YOU DAFT MAN!?! YOU MIGHT HIT THE MEN WHO COME UP TO ITS ANKLES!!!"


Akiasura wrote:
I hate to sound like a serial killer, but I'll be reaching for my friend occam's razor yet again.


 insaniak wrote:

You're not. If you're worried about your opponent using 'fake' rules, you're having fun the wrong way. This hobby isn't about rules. It's about buying Citadel miniatures.

Please report to your nearest GW store for attitude readjustment. Take your wallet.
 
   
Made in gb
Hurr! Ogryn Bone 'Ead!





 vipoid wrote:
I just wish GW was actually supporting that 'cool stuff'.

I'd certainly like be able to buy a Death Korps army without first needing to win the Lottery.


I swear it's possible, you just have to be willing to play with a third less points for the same cost, etc.

Anyway, at the rate of GW price increases, it won't matter either way

Death Korps of Krieg Siege Army 1500 
   
Made in us
Member of the Ethereal Council






Seee, this is why you head swap cadians.

5000pts 6000pts 3000pts
 
   
Made in us
Imperial Guard Landspeeder Pilot




On moon miranda.

That's exactly what I did for my Codex-based IG army, they've all got Pig Iron Kolony Militia heads, and they look very good after that.


IRON WITHIN, IRON WITHOUT.

New Heavy Gear Log! Also...Grey Knights!
The correct pronunciation is Imperial Guard and Stormtroopers, "Astra Militarum" and "Tempestus Scions" are something you'll find at Hogwarts.  
   
Made in ru
Longtime Dakkanaut



Moscow, Russia

 Psienesis wrote:


Hellguns have always been superior at armor penetration than a lasgun, but no more effective at then killing the thing inside that armor. That's just an oddity of hellguns. Not sure why.



Oh, I can tell you why.

Boltgun against Stormtrooper: 2/3 x 1/2 = 1/3

Hellgun against Marine: 1/3

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/11/18 01:20:06


 
   
Made in us
Imperial Guard Landspeeder Pilot




On moon miranda.

The problem is that the Bolter is more effective against a greater array of foes and at longer ranges, while the Hellgun/HotShot Lasgun is also stuck on a far less capable unit

IRON WITHIN, IRON WITHOUT.

New Heavy Gear Log! Also...Grey Knights!
The correct pronunciation is Imperial Guard and Stormtroopers, "Astra Militarum" and "Tempestus Scions" are something you'll find at Hogwarts.  
   
Made in ru
Longtime Dakkanaut



Moscow, Russia

Incidentally, I just did the math and Guardsmen with lasguns outshoot Shoota Boyz (which seem to be the standard for a "good troop" that the OP uses) by a significant margin.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Vaktathi wrote:
The problem is that the Bolter is more effective against a greater array of foes and at longer ranges, while the Hellgun/HotShot Lasgun is also stuck on a far less capable unit


Sure, but the point is that I am pretty sure that the hellgun's profile was determined so as to give stormtroopers and marines an equivalent chance to kill each other, shot for shot.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/11/18 02:02:42


 
   
Made in gb
Killer Klaivex




The dark behind the eyes.

 Vaktathi wrote:
That's exactly what I did for my Codex-based IG army, they've all got Pig Iron Kolony Militia heads, and they look very good after that.


I might do that for my Cadians.

 blood reaper wrote:
I will respect human rights and trans people but I will never under any circumstances use the phrase 'folks' or 'ya'll'. I would rather be killed by firing squad.



 the_scotsman wrote:
Yeah, when i read the small novel that is the Death Guard unit options and think about resolving the attacks from a melee-oriented min size death guard squad, the thing that springs to mind is "Accessible!"

 Argive wrote:
GW seems to have a crystal ball and just pulls hairbrained ideas out of their backside for the most part.


 Andilus Greatsword wrote:

"Prepare to open fire at that towering Wraithknight!"
"ARE YOU DAFT MAN!?! YOU MIGHT HIT THE MEN WHO COME UP TO ITS ANKLES!!!"


Akiasura wrote:
I hate to sound like a serial killer, but I'll be reaching for my friend occam's razor yet again.


 insaniak wrote:

You're not. If you're worried about your opponent using 'fake' rules, you're having fun the wrong way. This hobby isn't about rules. It's about buying Citadel miniatures.

Please report to your nearest GW store for attitude readjustment. Take your wallet.
 
   
Made in us
Sneaky Lictor





Chicago, IL

I'm pretty sure the Catachans' look is inspired by the movie Predator and the Vietnam era US military. I recall the original Tyranid codex (2d edition) had fluff about a Lictor hunting Catachans which was a pretty obvious Predator pastiche. I always kind of liked Catachans as a result - Nids vs. IG is about as iconic as it gets (and I'm guessing would also be one of the more common matchups in the 41st millennium, as compared to IG vs. SM/CSM or Eldar/DEldar/Tau).
   
Made in au
Longtime Dakkanaut




 Vaktathi wrote:
The problem is that the Bolter is more effective against a greater array of foes and at longer ranges, while the Hellgun/HotShot Lasgun is also stuck on a far less capable unit


It's a product of the general MEQ environment. In 2nd edition, hotshot lasguns were basically S4 lasguns. With the AP armor system, S4 is only a small improvement compared to AP 3. The MEQ saturation means every army must get some AP 3 to be competitive.
   
Made in gb
Killer Klaivex




The dark behind the eyes.

You mean GW thinks they need AP3 to be competitive?

Because, frankly, AP3 is something I've never found very useful - especially considering how much it costs.

In virtually every case, it's better to either pay a little extra and get AP2 (which then lets you hurt terminators and 2+ save MCs, as well as giving you the ability to explode vehicles), or else just spam some cheaper firepower. Marines can easily be killed by weight of fire.

 blood reaper wrote:
I will respect human rights and trans people but I will never under any circumstances use the phrase 'folks' or 'ya'll'. I would rather be killed by firing squad.



 the_scotsman wrote:
Yeah, when i read the small novel that is the Death Guard unit options and think about resolving the attacks from a melee-oriented min size death guard squad, the thing that springs to mind is "Accessible!"

 Argive wrote:
GW seems to have a crystal ball and just pulls hairbrained ideas out of their backside for the most part.


 Andilus Greatsword wrote:

"Prepare to open fire at that towering Wraithknight!"
"ARE YOU DAFT MAN!?! YOU MIGHT HIT THE MEN WHO COME UP TO ITS ANKLES!!!"


Akiasura wrote:
I hate to sound like a serial killer, but I'll be reaching for my friend occam's razor yet again.


 insaniak wrote:

You're not. If you're worried about your opponent using 'fake' rules, you're having fun the wrong way. This hobby isn't about rules. It's about buying Citadel miniatures.

Please report to your nearest GW store for attitude readjustment. Take your wallet.
 
   
Made in se
Glorious Lord of Chaos






The burning pits of Hades, also known as Sweden in summer

I want to like IG, but they are trying to do two things at once which only ends up sapping any interest I have for the faction.

That is, IG is often described as the weak guys, the poor normal humans like you and me, doing their best to survive in a galaxy filled with fiendishly lethal aliens and daemonic demigods throwing around tanks like tissue paper. They are trying to be charming in that way and very human, gaining sympathy and empathy. They are just normal people in a world of myths. Their chance of survival is very, very low, almost any non-human enemy they will face is going to roflstomp them without breaking stride, and yet they fight on with honest human courage. This is all well and good, something that only they have and that makes them unique and interesting,

But what is so incredibly jarring is that they also are trying to bludgeon their way onto the OP scene - I simply can't buy that the common guardsman is a courageous little soldier in a world of devilish danger and deserves sympathy when I see some IG fan happily ranting about how guardsmen carve apart Ork Nobz in melee, gun down ten Space Marines wíth a tank shot, Harker kills a Ravener in melee by crushing its throat with his biceps, and so on. It's just nothing short of absurd and makes the faction impossible for me to like. They need to decide what they want to be. Until then they will continue to be rather dull.

This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2014/11/18 20:55:19


I should think of a new signature... In the meantime, have a  
   
Made in us
Gore-Soaked Lunatic Witchhunter




Seattle

Well, the problem there is, one is fluff and one is crunch, Harker is a unique individual character and the players crowing that they cut Ork Nobz apart neglects to mention that this was the first time in 100 games that the Nobz didn't sweep his entire line. Sometimes, the Dice Gods truly smile upon you.

The other thing to remember is, while the individual Guardsman isn't very good (fluff or crunch)... heavy artillery doesn't give much of a feth how expensive your power armor suit is. A 200mm shell still pastes you across the country-side, and the IG has a *lot* of 200mm shell-throwing machines.

It is best to be a pessimist. You are usually right and, when you're wrong, you're pleasantly surprised. 
   
Made in gb
Killer Klaivex




The dark behind the eyes.

 Ashiraya wrote:
I want to like IG, but they are trying to do two things at once which only ends up sapping any interest I have for the faction.

That is, IG is often described as the weak guys, the poor normal humans like you and me, doing their best to survive in a galaxy filled with fiendishly lethal aliens and daemonic demigods throwing around tanks like tissue paper. They are trying to be charming in that way and very human, gaining sympathy and empathy. They are just normal people in a world of myths. Their chance of survival is very, very low, almost any non-human enemy they will face is going to roflstomp them without breaking stride, and yet they fight on with honest human courage. This is all well and good, something that only they have and that makes them unique and interesting,

But what is so incredibly jarring is that they also are trying to bludgeon their way onto the OP scene - I simply can't buy that the common guardsman is a courageous little soldier in a world of devilish danger and deserves sympathy when I see some IG fan happily ranting about how guardsmen carve apart Ork Nobz in melee, gun down ten Space Marines wíth a tank shot, Harker kills a Ravener in melee by crushing its throat with his biceps, and so on. It's just nothing short of absurd and makes the faction impossible for me to like. They need to decide what they want to be. Until then they will continue to be rather dull.


Honestly though, other than the silly Harker one, they seem quite reasonable. Just because IG are generally weak, doesn't mean there's no room for heroic accomplishments.

Hell, I've won (or at least held) many combats with guardsmen simply through attrition. It's not unreasonable for nobz to be pulled down by a mass of guardsmen.

With regard to killing 10 SMs, is that unreasonable? I thought IG were supposed to have powerful, if inaccurate, artillery. If the SMs were clustered for whatever reason, then a well-aimed shot should do a lot of damage to them.

 blood reaper wrote:
I will respect human rights and trans people but I will never under any circumstances use the phrase 'folks' or 'ya'll'. I would rather be killed by firing squad.



 the_scotsman wrote:
Yeah, when i read the small novel that is the Death Guard unit options and think about resolving the attacks from a melee-oriented min size death guard squad, the thing that springs to mind is "Accessible!"

 Argive wrote:
GW seems to have a crystal ball and just pulls hairbrained ideas out of their backside for the most part.


 Andilus Greatsword wrote:

"Prepare to open fire at that towering Wraithknight!"
"ARE YOU DAFT MAN!?! YOU MIGHT HIT THE MEN WHO COME UP TO ITS ANKLES!!!"


Akiasura wrote:
I hate to sound like a serial killer, but I'll be reaching for my friend occam's razor yet again.


 insaniak wrote:

You're not. If you're worried about your opponent using 'fake' rules, you're having fun the wrong way. This hobby isn't about rules. It's about buying Citadel miniatures.

Please report to your nearest GW store for attitude readjustment. Take your wallet.
 
   
 
Forum Index » 40K General Discussion
Go to: