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Made in ca
Ancient Venerable Black Templar Dreadnought





Canada

GW and LGS: why differentiate?

GW: corporate entity with a largely mono-product they flog like a miniatures McDonalds, standardized product with a standardized cost and presentation.

LGS: the "ma and pa" shop with a variety of product they flog like the local coffee shop of greasy spoon: reflects as much the owner preference as availability.

Which do you typically prefer: a consistent expected product experience or a variety of experiences?
I like variety so I am rather biased, but there you go.

A revolution is an idea which has found its bayonets.
Napoleon Bonaparte 
   
Made in ca
Resolute Ultramarine Honor Guard






Vancouver, BC

The GW here in Burnaby is pretty awesome. Friendly staff, good selection, four tables + a work bench and a demo table. They aren't pushy (they'll still ask, of course, but it's not like they are being pushy about it), can always get a pickup game, and they helped me paint a bunch of my empire infantry to tabletop standard the other day, and are going to help me make them a bit better next go around.

Course, I've heard horror stories of other GWs, but the highgate/Burnaby team is awesome.

And I am above the age of 21 :p

 warboss wrote:
Is there a permanent stickied thread for Chaos players to complain every time someone/anyone gets models or rules besides them? If not, there should be.
 
   
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Raleigh, NC

 Talizvar wrote:
GW and LGS: why differentiate?

GW: corporate entity with a largely mono-product they flog like a miniatures McDonalds, standardized product with a standardized cost and presentation.

LGS: the "ma and pa" shop with a variety of product they flog like the local coffee shop of greasy spoon: reflects as much the owner preference as availability.

Which do you typically prefer: a consistent expected product experience or a variety of experiences?
I like variety so I am rather biased, but there you go.


This is really the best way to do it, plus both terms are already accepted (hence their abbreviation tags).

GW and LGS. Personally, I equate FLGS to mean literally the same thing as LGS, the "F" has just become common vernacular.
   
Made in gb
[DCM]
Moustache-twirling Princeps





Gone-to-ground in the craters of Coventry

This is why I suggested a rating system in the Store Finder.
The local GW may be a FLGS, and the indie may not.
But, since one person might object to the pushy sales techniques for the first 10 minutes in the store, others can ignore it and get the full HHHobby experience.

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Hyperspace

So a mod nuked the entire conversation. Whyyyyy



Peregrine - If you like the army buy it, and don't worry about what one random person on the internet thinks.
 
   
Made in au
Perfect Shot Dark Angels Predator Pilot





oz

In a LGS you can basically do whatever, in a geedub store its GW only from games to paints.

Fair enough if you don't want to experience anything outside of GW stuff but why limit yourself?

why not experience everything the hobby has to offer?

it;s like limiting yourself to one aisle in a grocery shop


   
Made in gb
40kenthus




Manchester UK

Local GW:

Pros - Top lad running it.

Cons - far too small, no room to move on Games Night (one table).

Local Indy Store (hello, Element/NWGC)

Pros - Load sof tables, tons of scenery, a good player base for pretty much every game going. There's a bar.

Cons - it's fecking COLD in that building, and some of the players are at best obnoxious cretins with homophobic and sexist views which they seem to think of as BANTER.

Member of the "Awesome Wargaming Dudes"

 
   
Made in ca
Ancient Venerable Black Templar Dreadnought





Canada

 mitch_rifle wrote:
In a LGS you can basically do whatever, in a geedub store its GW only from games to paints.
Gah! I was just thinking if I wanted to paint at a GW vs. a LGS, my paints are a mix of some 3-4 brands, I could see picking through my paints to ensure I was "legal".

A revolution is an idea which has found its bayonets.
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Made in us
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Hyperspace

 Talizvar wrote:
 mitch_rifle wrote:
In a LGS you can basically do whatever, in a geedub store its GW only from games to paints.
Gah! I was just thinking if I wanted to paint at a GW vs. a LGS, my paints are a mix of some 3-4 brands, I could see picking through my paints to ensure I was "legal".

That's untrue. I was allowed to use non-GW spray primer, glue, clippers, and knife while there.



Peregrine - If you like the army buy it, and don't worry about what one random person on the internet thinks.
 
   
Made in us
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That will all depend on the particular store/manager. Either manager we've had at my local GW was fine with people using non GW brand paint, glue, etc. At other stores this is considered heresy.
   
Made in ca
Fixture of Dakka






Toofast wrote:
That will all depend on the particular store/manager. Either manager we've had at my local GW was fine with people using non GW brand paint, glue, etc. At other stores this is considered heresy.


The forces of chaos must start somewhere. First, a P3 file set, and before you know it, Primacy Hours will come around!

(that was snarl btw)

Seriously though, I can't imagine spraying primer Ina GW store hehehe
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut





Hyperspace

Talys wrote:
Toofast wrote:
That will all depend on the particular store/manager. Either manager we've had at my local GW was fine with people using non GW brand paint, glue, etc. At other stores this is considered heresy.


The forces of chaos must start somewhere. First, a P3 file set, and before you know it, Primacy Hours will come around!

(that was snarl btw)

Seriously though, I can't imagine spraying primer Ina GW store hehehe

The manager lets us spray in front of the store as long as the primer doesn't get on the windows or pavement. People have a tendency to bring primed models in straight away though, so technically due to primer in our bodies, everyone in the store is the property of Games Workshop



Peregrine - If you like the army buy it, and don't worry about what one random person on the internet thinks.
 
   
Made in us
Cosmic Joe





I think the "L" in FLGS might refer to "Locally owned and operated." In that case, a GW store can't be an FLGS. Or not.



Also, check out my history blog: Minimum Wage Historian, a fun place to check out history that often falls between the couch cushions. 
   
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Gosport, UK

It just means local I think. As in, local to the person in question.
   
Made in us
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Magnolia, TX

So....Verviendi asked a question....but not really.

To answer the psuedo question.

FLGSs offer freedom of choice, more room, variety, tournaments, organized play events, and a larger playerbase.

GW.....does not.

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Hyperspace

jamesk1973 wrote:
So....Verviendi asked a question....but not really.

To answer the psuedo question.

FLGSs offer freedom of choice, more room, variety, tournaments, organized play events, and a larger playerbase.

GW.....does not.

Dat spelling. I've encountered Verveidi and Verveddi before, but never a random N.
Legitimate answer, but my local GW also does escalation leagues, painting competitions, pizza parties, ect...



Peregrine - If you like the army buy it, and don't worry about what one random person on the internet thinks.
 
   
Made in gb
Thermo-Optical Hac Tao





Gosport, UK

Yours does. Not everyone's does. You seem to have got pretty lucky in the GW sweepstakes, but not everyone is the same. Hence why a lot of people prefer their LGS.
   
Made in us
Douglas Bader






Verviedi wrote:
Legitimate answer, but my local GW also does escalation leagues, painting competitions, pizza parties, ect...


Ok, so that confirms which GW store you're talking about: a tiny closet in the back corner of a random strip mall with poor inventory, very limited gaming space, mediocre terrain, ridiculously early closing times, etc. Sure, the employee buys you a slice of pizza if you collectively manage to meet his weekly sales quota, but you could easily buy the same stuff elsewhere at a discount and use the money you save to buy your own pizza. I honestly don't know how you could think that this store is better than the multiple awesome independent stores in the area.

There is no such thing as a hobby without politics. "Leave politics at the door" is itself a political statement, an endorsement of the status quo and an attempt to silence dissenting voices. 
   
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Hyperspace

 Ignored User wrote:
Verviedi wrote:
Legitimate answer, but my local GW also does escalation leagues, painting competitions, pizza parties, ect...


Ok, so that confirms which GW store you're talking about: a tiny closet I'm sorry what. We have 4 painting stations, 2 6x4 gaming tables, 1 6x4 demo tables, a back room with leaderboards and campaign materials, and a order station., in the back corner of a random strip mall Emm... Not really. The store is in the middle. Food Lion is right next to it. There was even ice cream next door!with poor inventory,Try looking behind the boxes. Due to shelf space the manager does a 2 boxes of one thing behind 2 boxes of another setup. Also, back rooms. very limited gaming space,Got me there, sometimes 2 6x4s aren't enough on pizza days... mediocre terrainFull set of Citadel terrain, including some OOP and ForgeWorld pieces, with some duplicates and custom buildings., ridiculously early closing timesNoon to 6 PM on weekdays, noon to 8 PM on weekends is ridiculously early? etc. Sure, the employee buys you a slice of pizza if you collectively manage to meet his weekly sales quota, but you could easily buy the same stuff elsewhere at a discount and use the money you save to buy your own pizza. I like the pizza they have at the store better than frozen pizza. I'm glad to spend $15 at the store every week on paint, and buy something big like yet another Flyrant once every 2 months.I honestly don't know how you could think that this store is better than the multiple awesome independent stores in the area.From the pics on their websites, they are always full of adults playing MTG, with a small selection of 40k stuff.

You've made me angry enough to use pink in quotes. Sorry, mods.



Peregrine - If you like the army buy it, and don't worry about what one random person on the internet thinks.
 
   
Made in gb
Thermo-Optical Hac Tao





Gosport, UK

Til 6/8 is early to close, the LGS near me is open til 11 every night, and my area is basically barren gaming wise.

And you could've just said all that without using the link quotes you've been asked many times not to use. Just because you're 'angry' (nothing in that post to get angry at anyway) isn't an excuse.
   
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Hyperspace

 ImAGeek wrote:
Til 6/8 is early to close, the LGS near me is open til 11 every night, and my area is basically barren gaming wise.

And you could've just said all that without using the link quotes you've been asked many times not to use. Just because you're 'angry' (nothing in that post to get angry at anyway) isn't an excuse.

Harshly insulting the place I go to to play games without people being donkey-caves to me. And it was Peregrine.



Peregrine - If you like the army buy it, and don't worry about what one random person on the internet thinks.
 
   
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Gosport, UK

Not Peregrine! He wasn't that harsh. Not like he was insulting you.

Like I've said before. You've got lucky with your local GW. Most GW stores are definitely worse than most FLGS, in my experience and most people's that have posted. You asked us why we prefer LGS and we told you.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/11/30 12:20:20


 
   
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Gathering the Informations.

 Peregrine wrote:
Verviedi wrote:
Legitimate answer, but my local GW also does escalation leagues, painting competitions, pizza parties, ect...


Ok, so that confirms which GW store you're talking about: a tiny closet in the back corner of a random strip mall with poor inventory, very limited gaming space, mediocre terrain, ridiculously early closing times, etc. Sure, the employee buys you a slice of pizza if you collectively manage to meet his weekly sales quota, but you could easily buy the same stuff elsewhere at a discount and use the money you save to buy your own pizza. I honestly don't know how you could think that this store is better than the multiple awesome independent stores in the area.

You mean like that dingy craphole that is Game Theory?

There are some great independents, but not all of them are actually LOCAL or CONVENIENT.

And remember that Verviedi is like 14 or 15. Probably doesn't drive and has to get a ride to somewhere--of which Atomic Empire might not be convenient for anyone involved.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/11/30 15:06:36


 
   
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To get to the closest GW store ( that's in Manhattan) I have to take a Metro North train, and a subway, just to get there and find Noone playing and just painting. For the local gaming club it's a long bus ride, and a mile and a half walk to find noone playing 40k. Carrying a Sabol bag that whole way for nothing is a huge PITA. My FLGS has scheduled 40K gaming day every Sunday. Which is today! I haven't not picked up a game in over a year there.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/11/30 15:06:24


 
   
Made in us
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Raleigh, NC

 Kanluwen wrote:
 Peregrine wrote:
Verviedi wrote:
Legitimate answer, but my local GW also does escalation leagues, painting competitions, pizza parties, ect...


Ok, so that confirms which GW store you're talking about: a tiny closet in the back corner of a random strip mall with poor inventory, very limited gaming space, mediocre terrain, ridiculously early closing times, etc. Sure, the employee buys you a slice of pizza if you collectively manage to meet his weekly sales quota, but you could easily buy the same stuff elsewhere at a discount and use the money you save to buy your own pizza. I honestly don't know how you could think that this store is better than the multiple awesome independent stores in the area.

You mean like that dingy craphole that is Game Theory?

There are some great independents, but not all of them are actually LOCAL or CONVENIENT.

And remember that Verviedi is like 14 or 15. Probably doesn't drive and has to get a ride to somewhere--of which Atomic Empire might not be convenient for anyone involved.


Ahh, so the three of us are all on the same page!

So yeah, Game Theory isn't that great, but Endless Gaming, Atomic Empire, and Gamer's Armory are all fantastic stores that offer a nice range of anything you may have interest in. I would highly recommend any of those three over the GW store, particularly for the 20+ age group (which I realize the OP is probably not a part of, but this is more about the topic at hand).

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/11/30 15:57:27


 
   
Made in ca
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 Nightlord1987 wrote:
To get to the closest GW store ( that's in Manhattan) I have to take a Metro North train, and a subway, just to get there and find Noone playing and just painting. For the local gaming club it's a long bus ride, and a mile and a half walk to find noone playing 40k. Carrying a Sabol bag that whole way for nothing is a huge PITA. My FLGS has scheduled 40K gaming day every Sunday. Which is today! I haven't not picked up a game in over a year there.


To get to my closest GW store I have to drive over 300 kilometers (~186 miles).

I can also tell you for sure there's people that would have to travel even longer, remember the Halifax, NS location mentioned earlier. Well I've found out that is the ONLY GW store in Atlantic Canada and Newfoundland, if someone lives in St. John's, NF and wants to drive to the closest GW they have to travel nearly 1500 km (932 miles) including a fairy trip. It takes 21 hrs assuming no traffic.

To put this in perspective for the UK guys out there since idea of GW being so far away is probably such a foreign concept to you, this is roughly the equivalent, in hours, of someone from London having to drive to LISBON, Portugal to find a GW store.

So one of the reasons people may not consider GW an LGS is because it's not local to them AT ALL. Not everyone can just hop in a car and drive to the closest GW in a reasonable amount of time.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/11/30 16:54:26


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Gathering the Informations.

 Accolade wrote:

Ahh, so the three of us are all on the same page!

So yeah, Game Theory isn't that great, but Endless Gaming, Atomic Empire, and Gamer's Armory are all fantastic stores that offer a nice range of anything you may have interest in. I would highly recommend any of those three over the GW store, particularly for the 20+ age group (which I realize the OP is probably not a part of, but this is more about the topic at hand).

See, for me?

I would rather play a game of Fantasy at the GW with my friend. The shop is ~ 10 minutes from where we both live while Atomic Empire is ~45-60 minutes.

I haven't been to Endless Gaming or Armory; the manager at the GW does recommend Gamer's Armory for people wanting to play 40k though as it seems the scene there is mostly 40k.
   
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Fort Worth, TX

Verviedi wrote:
 ImAGeek wrote:
Til 6/8 is early to close, the LGS near me is open til 11 every night, and my area is basically barren gaming wise.

And you could've just said all that without using the link quotes you've been asked many times not to use. Just because you're 'angry' (nothing in that post to get angry at anyway) isn't an excuse.

Harshly insulting the place I go to to play games without people being donkey-caves to me. And it was Peregrine.


It wasn't really insulting your GW store. What he said genuinely describes many of the remaining GW stores in the US. GW has been steadily moving their stores out of high traffic areas, reducing staff, reducing open hours (because of reduced staff), reducing inventory on hand (to make you buy more from the website with more stuff being direct only every day), etc.

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Verviedi wrote:
You've made me angry enough to use pink in quotes. Sorry, mods.


YOU HAVE INSULTED THE SACRED HONOR OF THE GW STORE, I MUST BREAK THE FORUM RULES!!!!!!!

I'm sorry what. We have 4 painting stations, 2 6x4 gaming tables, 1 6x4 demo tables, a back room with leaderboards and campaign materials, and a order station.


Yes, like I said, a tiny closet. That's much less than the local independent stores, which have 10-20+ tables available instead of two. And the floor space is much smaller.

Emm... Not really. The store is in the middle. Food Lion is right next to it.


What a crushing blow to my argument, the store is in the middle corner of the random strip mall, not the back. You still can't see it from the road, or even most parts of the parking lot. Unless you're already a GW customer you're never going to find the store.

Full set of Citadel terrain, including some OOP and ForgeWorld pieces, with some duplicates and custom buildings.


Like I said, mediocre. A full set of Citadel™ Battlefield™ Scenery™ is better than nothing, but it isn't all that impressive compared to the local stores that have the citadel stuff AND have tons of really nice custom terrain in a variety of themes.

Noon to 6 PM on weekdays, noon to 8 PM on weekends is ridiculously early?


Yes, it's ridiculously early, especially when you consider the fact that the store is closed for an hour in the middle so the single employee can have a lunch break. Compare that to the hours for the local stores, which are open until 10pm or later, even on weekdays.

From the pics on their websites, they are always full of adults playing MTG, with a small selection of 40k stuff.


So I guess this means that you haven't actually been to any of these stores, you've just declared that there's too much MTG on the website. Thanks for conceding that you aren't qualified to talk about this subject.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Kanluwen wrote:
You mean like that dingy craphole that is Game Theory?


I don't know about Game Theory, I haven't been there since they left their old location and moved to a much less convenient one. I'm thinking of Event Horizon, Gamer's Armory, and Atomic Empire.

And remember that Verviedi is like 14 or 15. Probably doesn't drive and has to get a ride to somewhere--of which Atomic Empire might not be convenient for anyone involved.


That's a legitimate reason to go to a GW store, but then the OP needs to be honest about it. "The GW store is the closest place for me to play 40k and it's good enough" is very different from "the GW store is superior and I'd go there even if I had a car".

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2014/11/30 20:14:59


There is no such thing as a hobby without politics. "Leave politics at the door" is itself a political statement, an endorsement of the status quo and an attempt to silence dissenting voices. 
   
Made in us
Stoic Grail Knight





Raleigh, NC

Verviedi, since I am also from the same area, I will give you a breakdown of a couple of other stores to help you compare.

- Endless Gaming: This store caters a bit more to college-age folks since it's right next to NC State. They have some absolutely gorgeous FW terrain, including some of the special Realms of Battle pieces (in addition to the regular ROB) and the *entire* set of Battle Zone Mortalis. The guy(s) who runs it competes in the Adepticon every year, so the store has some pretty cool toys, including a very well-painted Reaver Titan. They have two super boards with FW terrain and like 10 secondary boards they bring out for 40k night and tourneys. They play WH40k (including Kill-team on the Battle Zone board), some WMH, and even have a decent following of Blood Bowl! Plus the usual MTG and a ton of computers for people to get their DOTA fix and whatnot.

I can understand that this one might be out of your age range right now, but when you're a little older I highly recommend it, it's a fantastic store.

- Gamer's Armory: Another fantastic store that is more teenager-friendly, they have a massive range of things. There are about equal amounts of WMH and 40k going on, both of which are very popular (there's even a smidgen of WHFB, which is pretty dead these days). They also have Flames of War and X-Wing being played a lot, plus all the MTG, RPGs (D&D and such), and a ton of board games like Setters of Catan. This place feels the most like a large and open community, there are people playing all sorts of games and everyone has at least a passing curiosity in what you're doing. It's one of the best because it covers 40k well, but if you ever have any other interest in other games (which, frankly, why not?), it's all right there. PLUS they offer a discount off retail, and their 40k tables are respectable (6-8 tables with a ton of GW and custom terrain).

- Atomic Empire: I know less about this store because I, too, lived farther from it. It's a lot like Gamer's Armory- their selection is a bit wider, especially in table top games (they have things like Dystopian Wars and Infinity). They have a bar where you can get drinks and snacks, and overall it's a place I liked a lot but was out of my typical driving range...of course, the fact that the other two stores had so much going for them, I didn't feel as obligated to make the trek.

- Event Horizon: I honestly don't know much about this place since it was still coming into itself when I had to move. From the one visit I had there, it was pretty full of things, 40k and everything else. I'll leave Peregrine to talk about it since my knowledge is less so, but again I have to stress that it offers a whole range of things that people are interested in more than just 40k will find appealing.

Now, is the GW store there nice? Yeah, I think it's fine. The manager's a good guy, knows a lot about the current state of the game, and is enthusiastic about the systems. But the limitations of the GW store have nothing to do with him and everything to do with what GW designs these stores to do- get you to come in, buy some kits, maybe play a game or two, and leave. The hours are relatively short (most of the other stores I mentioned are open till like 10 or 11pm most days), and they are obligated to close up shop because they only have one guy in the store. GW stores didn't all used to be like this, but for some reason GW feels they should be. And for that, they simply can't compete with the likes of the independents.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2014/11/30 20:31:44


 
   
 
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