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 Slayer le boucher wrote:
People makes such a fuss about it.

Played 3 SM with the new codex, nothing to write home about, apart from the near constant rerolls, wich is the reason we call this codex "reroll marines", outside this, they are still Space MArines, with their old tricks and weaknesses.

Yup there is some nifty formations, none of our players are really into formations, because they like to tailor their lists has they wish, while formations restrict you in some ways.

So no, not all the SM players are making vehicles squadrons or have 3 VIndis on hand, or are interested in buying the extra Vindis.

Not all of them have the neccesary models to make those, and they are not really whilling to invest in new models.

Sure there are formations that can be easier to achieve then others, still hasn't seen them though, and i will greet them the same way i did for the last 17years, with a Chain axe to the face.

Well, I mean the main complaint (other than grav cents) is formations, so if your friends aren't playing formations, then your games aren't really proving that the complaints are invalid, right?

Is not really about invalidating anything, more like" the sky is not falling, simply kills them the way you killed them before".

Now the UM player did play the Gladius strike force, giving him 7 Combat Doctrines, now apart from the extra Doctrine, this formation isn't really much.

Yesterday played a IF guy who tried the Land Raider formation, te one that as long that each raider is in 6" of each other, they ignore the damage charts results excepte for explosion, wich is nice, but i still blew up one with meltas to the face and the other one with my Maulerfiend.

The scariest formation imo are the Conclave and the Annihilation strike force, the rest i don't know them enough to voice an opinion on them.

 Slayer le boucher wrote:
Is not really about invalidating anything, more like" the sky is not falling, simply kills them the way you killed them before".

Now when I play against SM they have 30 free obsec hull points, often sporting TL lascannons, often deployed deeply so that I can't reach them in assault. This is nothing like killing them like I did before.

My Decurion wouldn't really have much issue with that.

Just saying.

mercury14 wrote:

 Slayer le boucher wrote:
Is not really about invalidating anything, more like" the sky is not falling, simply kills them the way you killed them before".

Now when I play against SM they have 30 free obsec hull points, often sporting TL lascannons, often deployed deeply so that I can't reach them in assault. This is nothing like killing them like I did before.

They aren't free - best to look at it like this. It cost 90 points minum to get one of these "free" objective secured units with a TL LC or las plas. For 95 points you can get 5 scouts in a LSS and these don't reduce your choice for army comp - don't force you to take a chaplain and a captain, and come stock with scout/objective secured/deep strike/infiltrate/assault vehicle and 2 nice anti infantry heavy weapons.

The razor with 5 bare marines costs 5 points less...has a ton less special rules and a lot less tactical flexibility and takes away tactical flexibility from your whole army with a ton of sub optimal choices. Not to mention who wants to buy 9 razor backs - convert 9 laz plas turrets or buy expensive forge world turret - just so the rules can be updated in 1 year to be made totally useless again. The answer is - no one wants to do this. Esp not when you can make a list as strong or stronger than double demi by picking optimal choices.