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I have encountered the hanshake adversion as well, its odd to be sure. I just chalk it up to some weird phobia they may have.

On the other side of the fence I winced once when shaking a guys hand who had 2 inch long finger nails, undercoated in filth, smelled, and shook hands like a girl. Its been years since that 'ard boyz tourney, but I remember that clearly. Needless to say I wash my hands before and after my bathroom break.

I actually took to the simple fist bump after such experiences post game. Works a treat and is suitably manly too

Lots of players go to tournaments to have fun or test their un-netlisted armies to see how they do.
And thinking of 40k as a serious competitive game isn't going to help the OP. If he wants competitive, there are games that do it much better.

I can understand what OP means if he is referring to "big-time" competive events. It really seems like a waste to only go half way/ not bring your A game.
If OP is talking about casuals not going to local tourneys then no feth that.

Let me let you in on a secret of mine: I'm not actually "good" at this game. I can mathhammer to you all day and give you theoretical applications that will 'probably' work, but I actually suck when it comes to application.

So I don't go to big tourneys like NOVA or LVO. I am not 'hardcore enough' and I don't have the cash to plop out and get all the cheese that it takes to win. I'd rather play with what I have, and have fun.

I gladly play at my local tourneys and plop down 20$ to support the shop, but thats as far as I am going to take it.

Dman137 wrote:

nosferatu1001 wrote:

Dman137 wrote:
If anyone can name a big GT event won by a fluff army if be happy to hear it. (With in the last let's say 4-5 years

Again, define fluffy and competitive such that they are meaningful for 40k.

Again, you are going to events with soft scores which are by definition not related to gaming ability, and claiming them as "competitive"

They arent. Theyre hobby events with a competitive element. Just that.

I'm sorry if this is a shock to you.

It's a competitive event. Hobby event would be you go to your local Gw and they have a day were they teach you how to build paint and play.
If your going to a event that has best general as a award then you should be bringing the best list you can think of, if you bring a crap list then your not a very good general. List building is key to any good army. What really should be done is have to events, 1 for competitive players and the other for people that just want to hug each other.

Or 1 event for people to have fun and 1 for competitive players to circle jerk about their net-lists?

Or, go to the event with whatever army you enjoy playing and play that. While playing said army, treat the person across from you with respect.

Honestly, as a non-competitive player, attitudes like this are a big reason I don't go to big fancy tournaments, largely because the OP is 100% correct.

I mean, I love orks, and I especially love ork walkers. But they're TERRIBLE. I've tried a couple local tournaments where I bring my just-for-lulz ork walker list, and it's kind of fun, except for the part where I pay $20 to get my face kicked in for 6+ hours.

I live in Denver, and I've been meaning to go to feast of blades for a couple years largely because I'm told they have their 'serious' tournament and a 'fun' tournament, and I think the fun tournament would be a lot of, well, fun. People who submit for the fun tournament, I'm told, have their lists reviewed to make sure no one's bringing a 5 IK list, and that things are low-key enough to keep it fun and interesting, which really sounds up my alley.

Unfortunately, I heard the people who ran it are out of business or something.

I almost want to try the LVO, but again, I don't want to pay major money for tickets, lodging, travel, meals, etc, just to show up and get curb-stomped because I'm there for 'fun'.

Painting is a skill and can very much be a competitive skill. Sportsmanship is a rating on how good a person you are to be around and having it as a score that you can get docked on keeps people somewhat civil. Again, a tournament is a reflection of skill for the whole hobby, not just how well you can stomp your opponent.

I agree it is a competitive skill - GD attests to that. However it is not part of the competition over the game of 40k, whcih is entirely what the OP is talking about.

Dman137 wrote:
Year after year you run into people that go to tournaments with non competitive army's and then bomb the players that beat them.. Why did you come to the event.?? What were you hoping to accomplish.? I'm sure many of you have seen this, what are your views on non competitive players going to events but then bash it about how OP players were and also bombing there soft scores.

By the same logic, competitive players should not be allowed to play in anything but a tournement

 Formosa wrote:

Dman137 wrote:
Year after year you run into people that go to tournaments with non competitive army's and then bomb the players that beat them.. Why did you come to the event.?? What were you hoping to accomplish.? I'm sure many of you have seen this, what are your views on non competitive players going to events but then bash it about how OP players were and also bombing there soft scores.

By the same logic, competitive players should not be allowed to play in anything but a tournement

Exalted for truth.

 Formosa wrote:

Dman137 wrote:
Year after year you run into people that go to tournaments with non competitive army's and then bomb the players that beat them.. Why did you come to the event.?? What were you hoping to accomplish.? I'm sure many of you have seen this, what are your views on non competitive players going to events but then bash it about how OP players were and also bombing there soft scores.

By the same logic, competitive players should not be allowed to play in anything but a tournement

Wins best comment in thread. Exalted. This guy goes back and forth. "Eldar haters are haters" "what would make eldar fair" "why I love eldar" "eldar and you" "eldar walk on the beach" "tournies for my eldar"

Tournies for the Laughing God
Skulls for Khaine's Throne.

 Formosa wrote:

Dman137 wrote:
Year after year you run into people that go to tournaments with non competitive army's and then bomb the players that beat them.. Why did you come to the event.?? What were you hoping to accomplish.? I'm sure many of you have seen this, what are your views on non competitive players going to events but then bash it about how OP players were and also bombing there soft scores.

By the same logic, competitive players should not be allowed to play in anything but a tournement

That's fair. You should play according to the event, if it's competitive then be competitive of its for find then play for the fun of it, bring things you find fun and what not. All I'm try to say is there should be a event for both hobbyists.

Dman137 wrote:

 Formosa wrote:

Dman137 wrote:
Year after year you run into people that go to tournaments with non competitive army's and then bomb the players that beat them.. Why did you come to the event.?? What were you hoping to accomplish.? I'm sure many of you have seen this, what are your views on non competitive players going to events but then bash it about how OP players were and also bombing there soft scores.

By the same logic, competitive players should not be allowed to play in anything but a tournement

That's fair. You should play according to the event, if it's competitive then be competitive of its for find then play for the fun of it, bring things you find fun and what not. All I'm try to say is there should be a event for both hobbyists.

There are multiple events and a game for both. Warhammer 40k. How about instead of crying over little toys you just find the joy in the hobby in its entirity.

Dman137 wrote:

 Formosa wrote:

Dman137 wrote:
Year after year you run into people that go to tournaments with non competitive army's and then bomb the players that beat them.. Why did you come to the event.?? What were you hoping to accomplish.? I'm sure many of you have seen this, what are your views on non competitive players going to events but then bash it about how OP players were and also bombing there soft scores.

By the same logic, competitive players should not be allowed to play in anything but a tournement

That's fair. You should play according to the event, if it's competitive then be competitive of its for find then play for the fun of it, bring things you find fun and what not. All I'm try to say is there should be a event for both hobbyists.

The events you are disliking opponents during ARE hobby events. THis is a fact.

So, the solution is you should not go to them. Then everyone is happy.

 Kap'n Krump wrote:
Honestly, as a non-competitive player, attitudes like this are a big reason I don't go to big fancy tournaments, largely because the OP is 100% correct.

I mean, I love orks, and I especially love ork walkers. But they're TERRIBLE. I've tried a couple local tournaments where I bring my just-for-lulz ork walker list, and it's kind of fun, except for the part where I pay $20 to get my face kicked in for 6+ hours.

I live in Denver, and I've been meaning to go to feast of blades for a couple years largely because I'm told they have their 'serious' tournament and a 'fun' tournament, and I think the fun tournament would be a lot of, well, fun. People who submit for the fun tournament, I'm told, have their lists reviewed to make sure no one's bringing a 5 IK list, and that things are low-key enough to keep it fun and interesting, which really sounds up my alley.

Unfortunately, I heard the people who ran it are out of business or something.

I almost want to try the LVO, but again, I don't want to pay major money for tickets, lodging, travel, meals, etc, just to show up and get curb-stomped because I'm there for 'fun'.

OP is exactly 0% right.

If getting curbstomped all over the room for a weekend seems like a waste, then the really big tourneys are exactly where you want to be. The bottom half are usually people wit armies and attitudes like yours. They just want to have a good time and roll some dice while drinking to excess and soaking up the atmosphere. But that's just the championships. NOVA, for example, also has a narrative campaign and a friendly tournament, which are organized especially for people who want to bring their weird and wacky lists and still not be tabled on turn one every game.

And since you mentioned an Ork walker list, you might want to check out this guy's blog who is at NOVA right now with his, you guessed it, Ork walker list. And, of course, then there's this. Tournaments are about a lot more than winning or losing games. After all there's only one winner. They're mostly about the camaraderie, the drinking, the talking about the hobby, looking at amazingly painted armies, meeting new people, meeting old friends, and going on a lad's weekend.

 Kap'n Krump wrote:
I live in Denver, and I've been meaning to go to feast of blades for a couple years largely because I'm told they have their 'serious' tournament and a 'fun' tournament, and I think the fun tournament would be a lot of, well, fun. People who submit for the fun tournament, I'm told, have their lists reviewed to make sure no one's bringing a 5 IK list, and that things are low-key enough to keep it fun and interesting, which really sounds up my alley.

Adepticon had thier first "friendly" 40K tourney a couple years ago, about 5 guys came with compettive lists, the next year just about every one raised the bar. Now, it has since been dubbed the 'unfriendly'. Really the event states bring non-compettive lists and over half the guys are sporting the same death stars top players run in the championships...it was kinda sad. Why are some people that hard up to win? It's a non-compettive event.

I walked by the Friendly in 2014. Everyone seemed to be having fun, but I can't speak for 100 people. Lots of beer getting passed around. However, some people were past drunk and into "gak Faced" territory.

That is NOT fun at a tournament. Know your limits.

after The Big Lebowski and Dirty Dozen? (2nd yr) based events I refused to go back. Maybe they fixed it the force organizatin to avoid the compettive builds. I may give the Classic 40K event a try this year I heard great things about it.

I just played in HH events and a 400 pt kill team in 2015.

Mostly laid back folks similar in age and approach to the game in the HH events.

In 3 events I won 3 games (total), but had a blast.

Have we discussed the level of hardcore required to meet OP's standards?

Where's the line? How do we judge? Who's to judge? What standards? What if I think OP isn't hardcore enough for my super duper hardcore mega ultra competitive event?

I think the whole premise is absurd. With the state of 40k, I think the last thing anyone should be doing is limiting the number of players in their gaming pool. People at events pay money to be there to get in a weekend of solid gaming usually against good lookign armies on beautiful tables, and hopefully against pleasant and like-minded people.

Everyone is free to attend whatever they like, and they should be welcomed so long as their attitude remains a net positive to the atmosphere. Anything less is nonsense elitism that couldn't ever possibly be enforced or judged on.

Although I would agree that low balling anyone's soft scores is a sad way to conduct yourself. This behavior is in my experience more likely to happen with so called competitive gamers looking to better their odds then with the supposed fluff bunnies. Not a scientific study of course, but who cares. I certainly disagree with the notion that any gamer should refrain from attending an event just because the perceived opponents will be so much better or far less prepared.

It may surprise a lot of gamers of the so called competitive stripe that a many of us fluff bunnies might actually be better at this game than you think. Couldn't tell you how many times I have seen old hands take the first 1850 points out of the case and stomp some net lister simply because they stick to the scenario or are just plain better players.

Labeling yourself competitive doesn't make you into an instant tactical genius, nor does prefering to play in an environment where nobody is attempting to prove who's the king of 40k make you into a terrible player. Whoever shows up across the table you should be happy they showered and are a decent human being capable of actual human interaction who just so happens to be willing to spend their time in the same nerd filled hobby as you.

Assuming they aren't of the soft score mashing type or just blatant arsehats to be around, they are certainly worthy of respect. Have some for yourself as well and try to enrich the experience for everyone involved. Who knows, maybe that fluff bunny across the table really is the king of 40k and is about to school your Centstar on why GW always keeps nerfing Celestians. How you ask? Well it is good to be the king afterall...



Edit: What Blacksails said...

 dracpanzer wrote:
Although I would agree that low balling anyone's soft scores is a sad way to conduct yourself. This behavior is in my experience more likely to happen with so called competitive gamers looking to better their odds then with the supposed fluff bunnies. Not a scientific study of course, but who cares. I certainly disagree with the notion that any gamer should refrain from attending an event just because the perceived opponents will be so much better or far less prepared.

It may surprise a lot of gamers of the so called competitive stripe that a many of us fluff bunnies might actually be better at this game than you think. Couldn't tell you how many times I have seen old hands take the first 1850 points out of the case and stomp some net lister simply because they stick to the scenario or are just plain better players.

Labeling yourself competitive doesn't make you into an instant tactical genius, nor does prefering to play in an environment where nobody is attempting to prove who's the king of 40k make you into a terrible player. Whoever shows up across the table you should be happy they showered and are a decent human being capable of actual human interaction who just so happens to be willing to spend their time in the same nerd filled hobby as you.

Assuming they aren't of the soft score mashing type or just blatant arsehats to be around, they are certainly worthy of respect. Have some for yourself as well and try to enrich the experience for everyone involved. Who knows, maybe that fluff bunny across the table really is the king of 40k and is about to school your Centstar on why GW always keeps nerfing Celestians. How you ask? Well it is good to be the king afterall...

Exalt to the King!

And I should note, sometimes players complain about the soft score they got, without realizing that well... the way they acted, they DESERVED that soft score.

 dracpanzer wrote:
Although I would agree that low balling anyone's soft scores is a sad way to conduct yourself. This behavior is in my experience more likely to happen with so called competitive gamers looking to better their odds then with the supposed fluff bunnies. Not a scientific study of course, but who cares. I certainly disagree with the notion that any gamer should refrain from attending an event just because the perceived opponents will be so much better or far less prepared.

It may surprise a lot of gamers of the so called competitive stripe that a many of us fluff bunnies might actually be better at this game than you think. Couldn't tell you how many times I have seen old hands take the first 1850 points out of the case and stomp some net lister simply because they stick to the scenario or are just plain better players.

Labeling yourself competitive doesn't make you into an instant tactical genius, nor does prefering to play in an environment where nobody is attempting to prove who's the king of 40k make you into a terrible player. Whoever shows up across the table you should be happy they showered and are a decent human being capable of actual human interaction who just so happens to be willing to spend their time in the same nerd filled hobby as you.

Assuming they aren't of the soft score mashing type or just blatant arsehats to be around, they are certainly worthy of respect. Have some for yourself as well and try to enrich the experience for everyone involved. Who knows, maybe that fluff bunny across the table really is the king of 40k and is about to school your Centstar on why GW always keeps nerfing Celestians. How you ask? Well it is good to be the king afterall...



Edit: What Blacksails said...

Exactly
I remember back in 5th I face a GK army. From what I can remember it wasn't exactly the net list but even the soft GK lists were stupidly strong. Anyway I took it on at 1500 points with a all foot slogging Dark Eldar army the only non infantry unit being some revere jet bikes and I ended up tabling him he was in shock because he thought he would have a easy win lol

 Melissia wrote:
And I should note, sometimes players complain about the soft score they got, without realizing that well... the way they acted, they DESERVED that soft score.

Also worth noting some players know that if they give out low scores it mitigates their loss in the final standings. More so if they show up with a group that does it. Its an effective way to knock out good generals out of 1st place.

Show up with 10 people to a 50 person tournament and the guy who should be 1st plays 2 people from that group and instead comes in 12th.

Its why player awarded points should be removed at every opportunity.

 Ravenous D wrote:

 Melissia wrote:
And I should note, sometimes players complain about the soft score they got, without realizing that well... the way they acted, they DESERVED that soft score.

Also worth noting some players know that if they give out low scores it mitigates their loss in the final standings. More so if they show up with a group that does it. Its an effective way to knock out good generals out of 1st place.

Show up with 10 people to a 50 person tournament and the guy who should be 1st plays 2 people from that group and instead comes in 12th.

Its why player awarded points should be removed at every opportunity.

Or you do something intelligence like eliminating the bottom score and top score to alleviate cheating. Also maybe add a "Comments' section for those categories to allow the person rating you to state WHY you got that score. Ohh i see you got a 3 in sportsmanship because you apparently sneezed during the game....yeah were going to eliminate that players marks and average your.

Yeah, there's donkey-caves sometimes. But sometimes-- a lot of the times, even-- the donkey-caves are the ones doing the complaining.

Honestly I don't like the idea because it's just so abusable.
Certainly have a way to report people misbehaving, but player-given scores like that are just a really bad idea.

I'd never suggest banning a non-competitive player from a competitive event. That's ridiculous. If they're getting something out of it, they should have a right to compete!

That being said, if know that you can't win, and aren't going to try to win, I don't see what you're getting out of it. (That's personal, of course.)

However, if a casual player in a competitive setting complains about getting steam-rolled, my sympathy is somewhat less than high. When you put money down, with cash-value prizes on the line, you have to expect things to be a little rougher.

As far as sportsmanship goes, I'm ambivalent. I've rarely seen a tournament where the person who legitimately deserved to win it won it. It seems like the 'best sport' prize really winds up being the 'person we felt most guilty about beating' prize. I would honestly prefer that to be rolled into the others. Give a second place prize for points, or a second place for painting. Best sport never seems to shake out correctly.

 CrashGordon94 wrote:
Honestly I don't like the idea because it's just so abusable.
Certainly have a way to report people misbehaving, but player-given scores like that are just a really bad idea.

By the end the old Conflict tournaments were filled with people that knew they could rob a person of up to 14pts a round.

As far as this concerns the thread really people that enter a tournament need to understand that they should expect to see really hard and abusive lists and that they need to leave their boo boo stink face at home and just compete to the best of their ability. I cant stand playing against space wolves but I've never bombed anyone for taking them.

Here's the reality, eldar are extremely strong, and were already 25% of the armies at most tournaments before the new dex, if you go to a tournament now you can expect at least 25% eldar armies rocking at least 20 scat bikes. To go into that environment without knowing or preparing and getting butt hurt about it is your own fault, don't take it out on the other people. Just get over it. Its here to stay for the next year-ish. Adapt and overcome, or stay home.