Agamemnon2 wrote:

Deadshane1 wrote:

Dead Horse wrote:

Fallen668 wrote:
Missions:
Scoring units must be BOTH Troops and Infantry (it is unknown if jump infantry count towards this).

Is it just me, or is this no fun at all?

The best armies out there are "Troops" dominated. More fun to play against, and more effective anyway.

...it must be just you...and others.

True, an IG list that skims on Heavy Support to cram in a few more infantry platoons is a barrel of laughs... Nothing quite like using 120 useless grunts to gain access to a handful of lackluster heavy weapons and plasma guns.

?? Don't know about that. I play an all-infantry/sentinels IG list, no Heavy Support whatsoever, and it's extremely competitive.

Was that your army with the Calidus, Don? I forget.

I just hope the blast marker weapons thing is true because if so it just made the Plasma Cannon very deadly. From what I have here you don't fire a blast weapon you just roll the scatter dice and then you subtract the shooters BS. Then anything partially or fully covered his hit. The best thing about this is that a Plasma Cannon will never get hot. But even if it does then this weapon will be a very dominate weapon in any SM army.

stonefox wrote:Was that your army with the Calidus, Don? I forget.

most likely. I haven't seen him use any other army in about a year. and yeah, it's competitive.

don_mondo wrote:
?? Don't know about that. I play an all-infantry/sentinels IG list, no Heavy Support whatsoever, and it's extremely competitive.

Thanx for the backing there Don....

Last I heard, multiple 6 man las/plas are still good....

This years invitational winner also had 4-5 BIG mobs of shoota boyz....

I wouldnt be surprised if Bill Kim won the gladiator with at least 4 units of troops(stealer shock)....

I frequently stomp peeps with a FULL troops contingent in my current eldar list while ALL of my competetive lists sport 4+ units of troops....

The most competetive players in tourney play out there FREQUENTLY sport AT LEAST 4 units of troops in every list. Quality vs. quantity, people forget that cheaper basic troops in large amounts can be just as effective as any single high-power unit, and they're frequently better at killing when they all pour fire/assaults into a single unit, a single "high end" elite unit will in fact get wasted if shot at by several cheaper troops units. There's nothing wrong with lots of troops choices, many competetive tourney players (myself included) frequently abuse the 'troops' section, getting the most we can out of it, and we have great win records thanx to these grunts.

jfrazell wrote:I'm not playing captain laser light. The only laser that should ever be used is at a bank meeting or the business end of pistol (for better hallway vision).

No crap. I hated that.

I guess I was the only one who liked area terrain. It made games so much faster, and stopped so much of the bickering.

Diminishing returns is definitely a factor in the value of expensive units. I'll take 30 Orks over 6 Terminators any day.

As far as vehicles I see now that when it comes to shooting they are somewhat harder or somewhat easier to kill. In HTH though.... it's on like donkey kong.

JohnHwangDD wrote:The best introduction to 40k would be an IG Infantry Platoon against a pile of Gaunts.

Wrong! Everybody knows the best introduction to Jervishammer 40k is a 10-man Space Marine tactical squad with missile launcher and flamer vs a 10-man Space Marine tactical squad with missile launcher and flamer. Don't you know anything? Gosh!

A little birdie told me the following:

The blast weapons rule is actually a scatter of 2D6" - BS of shooter. So even on an average dice roll Marine Frag missiles will scatter 3". No more partials, even a scratch counts as a full hit.

MC can shoot two weapons. Walkers always count as statioary when shooting.

The 4+ universal cover is due to the loss of area terrain blocking all line of sight. You can shoot between trees, ruins...etc, so it's hard to hide from shooting. 4+ cover mitigates that.

Almost everything "runs." This includes MCs and Jump Infantry (this is going to make Stormboyz gross.) Vehicles (not sure about Walkers) and artillery can't run.

Just some tidbits.

Zoned

Almost everything "runs." This includes MCs and Jump Infantry (this is going to make Stormboyz gross.) Vehicles (not sure about Walkers) and artillery can't run.

Great, now I get to play against a Running Nightbringer 3 out of 4 games I play against Necrons. Yipee.

CK

two_heads_talking wrote:

stonefox wrote:Was that your army with the Calidus, Don? I forget.

most likely. I haven't seen him use any other army in about a year. and yeah, it's competitive.

an assassin could make CSM competitive again.. so that's not really saying much.

Whooo here's the counter!

http://us.games-workshop.com/games/40k/extras/countdown.htm

I love the included text:
The new edition of Warhammer 40,000 will be released in the USA on July 12, 2008. In case math isn't your best subject, we've created this handy, jumbo-sized counter to let you know exactly how far away the release is.

The new edition of Warhammer 40,000 will be released in the USA on July 12, 2008. In case you're a member of the design studio, we've created this handy, jumbo-sized counter to let you know exactly how far away the release is.

Fixed it.

Zoned wrote:A little birdie told me the following:

The blast weapons rule is actually a scatter of 2D6" - BS of shooter. So even on an average dice roll Marine Frag missiles will scatter 3". No more partials, even a scratch counts as a full hit.

MC can shoot two weapons. Walkers always count as statioary when shooting.

The 4+ universal cover is due to the loss of area terrain blocking all line of sight. You can shoot between trees, ruins...etc, so it's hard to hide from shooting. 4+ cover mitigates that.

Almost everything "runs." This includes MCs and Jump Infantry (this is going to make Stormboyz gross.) Vehicles (not sure about Walkers) and artillery can't run.

Just some tidbits.

Zoned

BoLS indicated that the 4+ Universal cover save is purely for Intervening units, ie. if you fire thru a friendly unit, or a vehicle gets a cover save for moving, it will always be 4+.

Terrain types will retain their individual cover saves, ie... trees etc 5+, city ruins 4+, bunkers 3+ etc...

hadn't heard the update on walkers counting as stationary and getting to fire 2, but I hope it's true.

Anyone heard the bit about defensive weapons including any and all "assault" weapons?

supersecretsquirrel wrote:
Anyone heard the bit about defensive weapons including any and all "assault" weapons?

That would be GREAT news. Where'd you hear that?

Aduro wrote:Isn't it a nerf to Perils? Befor it was a str 6 hit which allowed no saves. That's an Instant Death for alot of psykers out there. Now it's just a wound, and allows invulnerable saves, even if you have to make it twice that's still better than no save.

Yeah my mistake Aduro. I guess it helps to read rules instead of assuming something about them. Althought the update to the rumor states that if the invulnerable save is made it must be rerolled.

Ratbarf wrote:*SMACK!!!!

And the gloves are off in this Dakka Exclusive LVGT bout! Who will win? The rat with cool gear Savnock? or the Manic looking Deadshane! Tune in later folks to this titanic bout of Dakka Dakka!!!

(seriously though someone should do that to Stelek...)

Darrian13 has been calling out Stelek in the first round of the LVGT for a while.

I'd pay to watch that one.

Centurian99 wrote:

supersecretsquirrel wrote:
Anyone heard the bit about defensive weapons including any and all "assault" weapons?

That would be GREAT news. Where'd you hear that?

Commonsenseland?

yay for a running nightbringer!

Abadabadoobaddon wrote:

Centurian99 wrote:

supersecretsquirrel wrote:
Anyone heard the bit about defensive weapons including any and all "assault" weapons?

That would be GREAT news. Where'd you hear that?

Commonsenseland?

What game are we talking about here? Because common sense has never played a part in 40K.

More so, I believe common sense was banned internationally some years back. A few rebels still remain, but most are getting used to it and behaving accordingly.

Common sense was a unit in LaTD. You can still use it in Apocalypse.

Back on topic, the assault weapons thing would be awesome. For Orks. Because in 5th, they really nee...

Er, nevermind.

The last known instance of common sense happened at a GT. A player tried to use the "common sense" argument vs. Mauleed to justify his turbo-boosted bikes getting a saving throw vs. Psycannons. The players resulting psychic death scream erased common sense from the minds of 40k players everywhere.

Ozymandias, King of Kings

Stingray_tm wrote:Okay, if these rumours are true, i am officially done with GW.

I am playing Nids and i have exactly two Carnifexes in my army. Those needed to be optimized for ranged fire, because at least something in my army list had to be effective in order to balance the trash i have in my list for style reasons (Biovores, etc.).

It was a special feature in the rule book and even the codex said so, so there was no reason not to take two guns on a Carnifex.
The problem with Godzilla is not the fact, that an individual MC is so good, it is that you can have 8 of them.
GW again totally missed the point, didn't adress the real problem, pissed of players of balanced armies and even managed to create enough fallout to affect other races (Wraithlords for Eldars).
The solution would have been to get rid of Elite Carnifexes, not totally f*ck up existing and balanced Carnifex configurations.

Screw GW, i am outta here. I will find myself a FoW group. There i can be sure, that i will be able to use my Sherman models in 3rd edition...

lol

Lets save the crying for when the rule book is in your hand. Whats with all the naysaying of doom when its not even out yet.

KNEEJERK REACTIONS are silly and best kept for politicians and the politically correct brigade.

Alternatively keep it up and you will be well on the way to baldness by the time your 25, checkin out your combover each morning. And if your older than 25 shame on you ;-p

Check p4 of the thread, its already been changed to move and shoot 1, or remain stationary and shoot 2. Much fairer and in line with tanks, that aint so bad.....

Check p4 of the thread, its already been changed to move and shoot 1, or remain stationary and shoot 2

For clarity, no rumor suggests that at all. There's only rumors that say may shoot 2 and there's rumors they may only shoot 1. I postulated AFTER posting the rumors update that they might both be true due to movement, like dreadnaughts, but no rumors has ever been stated to that effect.

Also, BoLS pulled that rumor entirely due to the conflict, so now it is back to anyones guess.

Parody and Winterman have it right I think, there's probably as many bogus stories floating around as real ones, so why waste a whole lot of emotion over what someone heard someone said?
Someone here might have the real deal info, but since I have no way of knowing who it would be, I'll just wait and be surprised.

Because I'm a firm believer in instant gratification?

Plastic Parody wrote:lol
Lets save the crying for when the rule book is in your hand. Whats with all the naysaying of doom when its not even out yet.

Maybe you missed a part in my post, so i will emphasize it:

Okay, IFthese rumours are true, i am officially done with GW.

Ozymandias wrote:The last known instance of common sense happened at a GT. A player tried to use the "common sense" argument vs. Mauleed to justify his turbo-boosted bikes getting a saving throw vs. Psycannons. The players resulting psychic death scream erased common sense from the minds of 40k players everywhere.

Sigged, you magnificent bastard!