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2013/07/04 01:30:48
Subject: Re:Are DE bottom tier now?
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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You could, but I'm not sure if you even need to disembark to place a WWP.
Really? I'm pretty sure that's not true, although would love it if it is.
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2013/07/04 01:39:58
Subject: Re:Are DE bottom tier now?
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Smokin' Skorcha Driver
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No you do have to be disembarked to drop a wwp, although that would be awesome if you didn't. It might be interesting if you had like 3 or 4 squads of 20 man warrior units coming out the wwp, it would probably at least make your opponent think for a moment haha.
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Friendship is like peeing on yourself: everyone can see it, but only you get the warm feeling that it brings. |
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2013/07/04 02:27:15
Subject: Re:Are DE bottom tier now?
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Hellion Hitting and Running
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ShadarLogoth wrote:You could, but I'm not sure if you even need to disembark to place a WWP.
Really? I'm pretty sure that's not true, although would love it if it is.
Oops, I meant he could disembark after deepstrike. Flaming tadpole answered the WWP part.
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2013/07/04 03:03:23
Subject: Are DE bottom tier now?
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Shas'o Commanding the Hunter Kadre
Olympia, WA
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WWP has to be placed against the base of the model, so you do indeed disembark
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Hold out bait to entice the enemy. Feign disorder, and then crush him.
-Sun Tzu, the Art of War
http://www.40kunorthodoxy.blogspot.com
7th Ambassadorial Grand Tournament Registration: http://40kambassadors.com/register.php |
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2013/07/04 11:32:47
Subject: Are DE bottom tier now?
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Secret Inquisitorial Eldar Xenexecutor
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So can you disembark after deepstriking, and then drop the WWP in the shooting phase, all in 1 turn?
I'm sure this is a very basic rules question - sorry to any that think me thick!
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2013/07/04 12:25:22
Subject: Are DE bottom tier now?
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Dakka Veteran
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No disembarking as deep strike moves you at crusing speed (12")and you can't get out if move over combat(6") but DSing a few gun boats is fun though passengers are snap shooting (splinter rack needed) it's just a shame we dont have a homing beacon type item.
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2013/07/04 18:57:34
Subject: Re:Are DE bottom tier now?
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Hellion Hitting and Running
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According to the rulebook, you can disembark after deepstriking.
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2013/07/04 19:14:41
Subject: Are DE bottom tier now?
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Dakka Veteran
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I stand corrected. yes you can DS get out and drop the wwp.
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2013/07/04 20:20:45
Subject: Are DE bottom tier now?
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Shas'o Commanding the Hunter Kadre
Olympia, WA
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you can never disembark after moving anything but Combat speed, ever. The Drop pod.Mycetic Spore is a specific exception. Can you cite a rule that says otherwise, or perhaps an FAQ? I have no book with me.
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Hold out bait to entice the enemy. Feign disorder, and then crush him.
-Sun Tzu, the Art of War
http://www.40kunorthodoxy.blogspot.com
7th Ambassadorial Grand Tournament Registration: http://40kambassadors.com/register.php |
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2013/07/04 20:45:59
Subject: Re:Are DE bottom tier now?
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Hellion Hitting and Running
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Page 36, right after the bullet points.
In the Movement phase during which they arrive, deep striking units may not move any further, other than to disembark from a deep striking Transport vehicle if they are in one.
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2013/07/04 21:48:17
Subject: Are DE bottom tier now?
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Secret Inquisitorial Eldar Xenexecutor
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Excellent, thank you very much Automatically Appended Next Post: Guessing that assaulting is out of the question in the same turn though?
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/07/04 21:53:20
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2013/07/04 23:50:53
Subject: Re:Are DE bottom tier now?
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Hellion Hitting and Running
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kitch102 wrote:Guessing that assaulting is out of the question in the same turn though?
Correct. DE FAQ wrote:Q: Can a unit that has arrived from reserve through a webway portal
launch an assault the turn it arrives? (p62)
A: No.
But I'm still unsure what you're trying to do with the WWP. If it's Tau you're struggling against, read up on Mushkilla's batrep on how he deals with Tau, may be? Beside, don't they have interceptor or something that allow them to shoot at anything coming in from reserve near them? Don't know much about Tau except that they have scary guns.
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2013/07/05 05:45:33
Subject: Re:Are DE bottom tier now?
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Shas'o Commanding the Hunter Kadre
Olympia, WA
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Baronyu wrote:Page 36, right after the bullet points.
In the Movement phase during which they arrive, deep striking units may not move any further, other than to disembark from a deep striking Transport vehicle if they are in one.
Thanks.
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Hold out bait to entice the enemy. Feign disorder, and then crush him.
-Sun Tzu, the Art of War
http://www.40kunorthodoxy.blogspot.com
7th Ambassadorial Grand Tournament Registration: http://40kambassadors.com/register.php |
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2013/07/05 07:32:05
Subject: Re:Are DE bottom tier now?
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Secret Inquisitorial Eldar Xenexecutor
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Baronyu wrote: kitch102 wrote:Guessing that assaulting is out of the question in the same turn though?
Correct. DE FAQ wrote:Q: Can a unit that has arrived from reserve through a webway portal
launch an assault the turn it arrives? (p62)
A: No.
But I'm still unsure what you're trying to do with the WWP. If it's Tau you're struggling against, read up on Mushkilla's batrep on how he deals with Tau, may be? Beside, don't they have interceptor or something that allow them to shoot at anything coming in from reserve near them? Don't know much about Tau except that they have scary guns.
Thanks.
I'm just looking to increase the survivability of my guys - and I'm thinking that instead of leaving them on gunboats which only blow up and cause them damage, I can march 2 squads of 20 warriors out of a wwp, each with a haemy attached, and rapid fire 40 shots per squad in to his little fethers excluding any extra shots from splinter cannons. So to do this I'd DS a raider loaded up with grotesques or wyches and a haemy, disembark on the opposite side of the raider to which his units are and drop a WWP. Next turn onwards my units start marching through completely undamaged. This also means that I can negate his aegis cover save as I'll be firing from the opposite side of it. Also seeing lots 2 razorwings and a chronos in this fantasy list... maybe a small squad of wracks to sit far out field, just so I can say I have something alive on the board so I dont auto lose if my reserve rolls don't go as planned.
No idea about interceptor though, I'm considering getting a copy of their dex at the weekend just to let me read up on them...
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2013/07/05 13:19:54
Subject: Are DE bottom tier now?
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Regular Dakkanaut
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I assume you want to deploy the WWP on turn 1, which if you're going first is basically guaranteed. But, then you have a 6" move with the transport, disembark 6", place wwp. I don't think this is going to get your behind an Aegis.
If you wait until turn 2, you'll probably wind up walking on from your board edge.
and, might be tough to run 40 dudes out of a WWP, you only have 6"
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2013/07/05 16:03:13
Subject: Are DE bottom tier now?
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Secret Inquisitorial Eldar Xenexecutor
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jcress410 wrote:I assume you want to deploy the WWP on turn 1, which if you're going first is basically guaranteed. But, then you have a 6" move with the transport, disembark 6", place wwp. I don't think this is going to get your behind an Aegis.
If you wait until turn 2, you'll probably wind up walking on from your board edge.
and, might be tough to run 40 dudes out of a WWP, you only have 6"
Yes, though as I'd be deep striking I should be able to choose where I'm going to land. Obviously there's a risk of scatter though there's nothing that can be done about that.
Re running 40 dudes out of 1 WWP, I see 2 options
1) only bring on one squad per turn or
2) have 2 - or even 3 if I wanted to be a prat - haemys in the deep striking raider(s), each with a wwp, and drop it at either end of the squad that they're attached to. 1 squad comes out of each WWP to allow a little more clearance room.
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2013/07/05 16:12:42
Subject: Are DE bottom tier now?
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Regular Dakkanaut
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You can't just "bring on one squad per turn", they arrive from reserve when they arrive.
And, you couldn't deploy the WWP on the turn you deepstrike, b/c the squad can't disembark.
So, on turn 2 if the wwp isn't already on the board, all the units arriving that turn walk on from your board edge
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2013/07/05 16:18:31
Subject: Are DE bottom tier now?
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Ferocious Black Templar Castellan
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jcress410 wrote:
And, you couldn't deploy the WWP on the turn you deepstrike, b/c the squad can't disembark.
See above in thread.
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For thirteen years I had a dog with fur the darkest black. For thirteen years he was my friend, oh how I want him back. |
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2013/07/05 16:23:30
Subject: Are DE bottom tier now?
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Regular Dakkanaut
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right, nevermind that part.
but, still, deepstrike on turn 2, any other units arriving from reserve that turn are walking on from board edge.
WWP would only be available on turn 3
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2013/07/05 16:24:22
Subject: Re:Are DE bottom tier now?
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Hellion Hitting and Running
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Hmm... ADL gives a 4+ cover save, correct? Most Tau are on 4+ armour save. And DE's AI is large pool of AP5 wounds? So why is ADL a concern? They get a 4+ save anyway?
You'd probably want to have a seperate HQ, warlord, hidden somewhere safe too, that haemy grotesques blob might not last very long when you just smacked them in the middle of double tap(for some Tau, it's triple tap, right?) range.
Problem with option 1 is, I think you need a special rule, warlord trait or some sorta fortification thingy to get the ability to choose whether or not an unit is coming on, you may only wanna bring one squad in per turn, but you have to roll for all reserve units, and any reserve roll passed mean that unit has to come on that turn AFAIK.
And problem with option 2 is, if you want to have grotesque as WWP placer's retinue, you're throwing a lot of points down, but they likely won't survive because of mass of fire, and it's a very very big point sink. I'd probably go with minimal plain wracks on raider to minimise your loss. Though if you're unlucky to roll annihilation game, each of this WWP placer unit are worth 3 points for your opponent...
Lastly, I'm still not sure if you could deepstrike a WWP or 2 down and use them right away for other reserve unit, I'd assume that it works like a locator beacon or something similar, as in it has to be on the board at the start of the turn for unit to use it, but I can't seem to find that written anywhere for WWP, so if you can use them, then good, but if you cant, then refer to my post on previous page or what I said above, you could run into a situation where you rolled your WWP entry unit to come on, but not your WWP reserve unit, then you've wasted so many points.
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2013/07/05 16:40:34
Subject: Re:Are DE bottom tier now?
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Grovelin' Grot Rigger
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Baronyu wrote:Page 36, right after the bullet points.
In the Movement phase during which they arrive, deep striking units may not move any further, other than to disembark from a deep striking Transport vehicle if they are in one.
Codex: Dark Eldar, page 63
Retrofire Jets: The vehicle is fitted with jet engines that can suddenly slow its descent, allowing it to drop from the skies straight into the enemy ranks. A vehicle fitted with retrofire jets can Deep Strike. However, troops on board may not disembark that turn.
Codex beats rulebook, so you can't disembark.
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2013/07/05 19:37:59
Subject: Re:Are DE bottom tier now?
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Hellion Hitting and Running
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Code wrote:Retrofire Jets: The vehicle is fitted with jet engines that can suddenly slow its descent, allowing it to drop from the skies straight into the enemy ranks. A vehicle fitted with retrofire jets can Deep Strike. However, troops on board may not disembark that turn.
Codex beats rulebook, so you can't disembark. Ah! Forgotten about that! Show you how much I know about wargears I rarely ever used... EDIT: Does that mean Duke's deepstrike buff is actually better?
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/07/05 19:38:54
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2013/07/05 19:59:16
Subject: Are DE bottom tier now?
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Angered Reaver Arena Champion
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Yes the duke's deepstrike has always been better for this reason.
I'd like to point out a bit of an oddity. Notice how it says (according to the quote) that "troops" may not disembark.
Troops, afaik is only defined as the FOC and is not synonymous with units. Does this mean that an elite unit can disembark but a troop unit can't?
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Sangfroid Marines 5000 pts
Wych Cult 2000
Tau 2000 |
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2013/07/05 20:08:04
Subject: Are DE bottom tier now?
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Secret Inquisitorial Eldar Xenexecutor
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Makes sense, though I'd expect A LOT of arguments by using that
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2013/07/05 20:11:51
Subject: Are DE bottom tier now?
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Ferocious Black Templar Castellan
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Dracos wrote:Yes the duke's deepstrike has always been better for this reason.
I'd like to point out a bit of an oddity. Notice how it says (according to the quote) that "troops" may not disembark.
Troops, afaik is only defined as the FOC and is not synonymous with units. Does this mean that an elite unit can disembark but a troop unit can't?
That's Troops with an uppercase T though.
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For thirteen years I had a dog with fur the darkest black. For thirteen years he was my friend, oh how I want him back. |
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