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Made in au
Unstoppable Bloodthirster of Khorne





Melbourne .au

Posts like these are why I don't even consider ordering from Wayland any more.

Well, that and the shipping prices.

And the time I bought a pile of FoW stuff, one book cover came badly creased and I was told I'd have to pay to return it before they'd replace it or pay for my return shipping - even though it would have cost more for them to cover my return postage then the book was worth (AU post is expensive).

And the "Warjack/Dreadnought" foam I spent $70+ on which is useless for both Warjacks and Dreadnoughts. In fact, I'm not sure what the feth the foam is for.

So, yeah. Troll Trader and Firestorm Games get my business instead.

   
Made in se
Civil War Re-enactor





I have used them a few times, and no complaints really. Good prices and fast delivery. About one and a half week usually, from the time of ordering to me receiving it (in Sweden).

I once ordered a "3-9 working days" item and got (rightly or wrongly) a little impatient after it had gone a bit more than that and requested the order to be cancelled. I had my money back within days of contacting them, so excellent customer service.

That said, it's been a while since I've used them. Maybe things have changed, but I have very little reason not to order from them again.

Shotgun wrote:
I don't think I will ever understand the mentality of people that feel the need to record and post their butthurt on the interwebs.
 
   
Made in gb
Skink Armed with a Blowpipe





Hi Guys, Jake @ wayland here.

f2k,
I have sent you a PM as i am eager to look in to this for you. If you drop me a reply I will be able to look in to your order for you, and give you more information.

Azazelx,
We do ship worldwide and automatically discount our customers shipping costs compared to the costs we ourselves have to pay. As I'm sure you are aware shipping items half way around the world is not cheap, regardless of this we always aim to provide our customers with the cheapest shipping methods possible. In fact we are always looking in to new ways to reduce shipping costs so that we can improve value for our customers.

In regards to the creased book we always pack items as safely and securely as possible, once they are passed on to the shipping / postal company we have to have faith that no accidents happen in the transporting of the parcel. Unfortunately these things do happen and stock can get damaged in transit, we know that this can not always be helped. If we asked you to return a parcel then it will have been for a good reason.

We are not a manufacturer ourselves and do not decide what items are suitable to fit in a specific foam tray. Each item is listed following the manufacturers descriptions and specifications. Everyone we build a model in their own way, with their own pose, I am a collector myself and I can't remember I built a model in the exact same pose that was shown on a box.

fishy bob,
We are always striving to improve our customer service and every aspect of our business. If you have any questions you are welcome to contact us if you have any questions. http://www.waylandgames.co.uk/about-us/info_1.html#cu

Regards
Jake @ Wayland.

   
Made in au
Unstoppable Bloodthirster of Khorne





Melbourne .au

 Jake-Wayland wrote:
Hi Guys, Jake @ wayland here.

f2k,
I have sent you a PM as i am eager to look in to this for you. If you drop me a reply I will be able to look in to your order for you, and give you more information.

Azazelx,
We do ship worldwide and automatically discount our customers shipping costs compared to the costs we ourselves have to pay. As I'm sure you are aware shipping items half way around the world is not cheap, regardless of this we always aim to provide our customers with the cheapest shipping methods possible. In fact we are always looking in to new ways to reduce shipping costs so that we can improve value for our customers.

In regards to the creased book we always pack items as safely and securely as possible, once they are passed on to the shipping / postal company we have to have faith that no accidents happen in the transporting of the parcel. Unfortunately these things do happen and stock can get damaged in transit, we know that this can not always be helped. If we asked you to return a parcel then it will have been for a good reason.

We are not a manufacturer ourselves and do not decide what items are suitable to fit in a specific foam tray. Each item is listed following the manufacturers descriptions and specifications. Everyone we build a model in their own way, with their own pose, I am a collector myself and I can't remember I built a model in the exact same pose that was shown on a box.

fishy bob,
We are always striving to improve our customer service and every aspect of our business. If you have any questions you are welcome to contact us if you have any questions. http://www.waylandgames.co.uk/about-us/info_1.html#cu

Regards
Jake @ Wayland.



Hi Jake,
Not going to have an angry argument with you across a bunch of posts or anything like that, but I'll answer your above post in order to clarify my previous post, then go back to mostly lurking in this thread.

Shipping - I use the companies who offer free shipping. Predominantly Troll Trader and Firestorm. None of them are in Jersey or Guernsey, and so I know that the VAT money is being used to cover shipping. With the stuff I buy, and my pretty decent knowledge of RM, I know that sometimes they make a bit, sometimes they "lose" a bit on it. Either way they have made the decision that the additional money they make from international business is worthwhile, since it encourages people like myself to order from them. While it means their margins on some items might be squashed a little more, it's money they're making in the end that you're not. If you resurrected the 40 quid free shipping on a permanent basis, then this would negate that issue, despite it being a little more than the above two companies. The despatch time would still be an issue, however.

Creased book - it was creased inside the box. Packed with other items. We're talking creased by the packer in this specifc instance (it was clearly bent while being shoved into an internal box inside the shipping box). Not "bent by the postal services". If you ask me to return some faulty product across the planet for replacement, the way to do it is to send my replacement, and then ask for the faulty product to be returned. Not "send it back and then we'll replace it." Especially for a business who takes as long as yours does to ship. The comment "If we asked you to return a parcel then it will have been for a good reason." unfortunately reeks of a condescending tone. While I understand that you may be concerned about being taken advantage of by unscrupulous consumers, I am and have never been one of those, and so find "send it back first" to be insulting and a waste of 4+ additional weeks of transit time for something I've bought and paid for. So it's just simpler to take my business elsewhere/where it's appreciated.

Trays - I might actually take a photo if I get around to it. Your response makes total sense for someone who is simply reading what I posted. If you saw the trays, you might understand my complaint a little better. It's not at all a posing issue - the trays are too short by a solid 15mm to actually fit in a stock standard Dreadnought or Warjack - without standard poles, flags, etc, built in the most boring and standard manner - no arms raised or waving about. So the tops stick out and the trays can then not be stacked, etc. While I don't expect Wayland or any retailer to measure each foam tray or personally examine every SKU from every manufacturer, if something is not fit for purpose, you as the vendor still need to stand behind the product. I didn't complain on this one though, as I've experienced Wayland's brand of customer service - as noted above - so I simply wrote it off as a loss, cross off the "I'll give them another chance" and decided to never to buy from you again.

While you might understandably feel this is unfair, and that I did not give you even an opportunity to resolve the issue (and you'd be correct there), if you're interested in customer service, reputation and customer retention, you might want to look at why I've simply decided not to bother and written off £58.50 (just checked the invoice - so a decent chunk more than the AU$70 I remembered it as) over trying to resolve the issue with you. The answer is because I felt that your customer service would be horrible to try and deal with again, and that you'd refuse to resolve the issue to my satisfaction. So I didn't bother and have been spending my money elsewhere regularly ever since with retailers who appreciate my business and have good and responsive customer service.

The book issue was in October 2012. These two posts are the only time I've ever bothered telling anyone about the trays, BTW. which were bought in Jan 2013. It's not something I've embraced as a Wayland-Martyr or as an axe to constantly grind or anything like that. I thought it worth mentioning in this thread as something to enlighten you in your CSR position about myself as a lost customer and the reasons why, as you appear to be genuine in your interactions here.





   
Made in gb
Skink Armed with a Blowpipe





 Azazelx wrote:
 Jake-Wayland wrote:
Hi Guys, Jake @ wayland here.

f2k,
I have sent you a PM as i am eager to look in to this for you. If you drop me a reply I will be able to look in to your order for you, and give you more information.

Azazelx,
We do ship worldwide and automatically discount our customers shipping costs compared to the costs we ourselves have to pay. As I'm sure you are aware shipping items half way around the world is not cheap, regardless of this we always aim to provide our customers with the cheapest shipping methods possible. In fact we are always looking in to new ways to reduce shipping costs so that we can improve value for our customers.

In regards to the creased book we always pack items as safely and securely as possible, once they are passed on to the shipping / postal company we have to have faith that no accidents happen in the transporting of the parcel. Unfortunately these things do happen and stock can get damaged in transit, we know that this can not always be helped. If we asked you to return a parcel then it will have been for a good reason.

We are not a manufacturer ourselves and do not decide what items are suitable to fit in a specific foam tray. Each item is listed following the manufacturers descriptions and specifications. Everyone we build a model in their own way, with their own pose, I am a collector myself and I can't remember I built a model in the exact same pose that was shown on a box.

fishy bob,
We are always striving to improve our customer service and every aspect of our business. If you have any questions you are welcome to contact us if you have any questions. http://www.waylandgames.co.uk/about-us/info_1.html#cu

Regards
Jake @ Wayland.



Hi Jake,
Not going to have an angry argument with you across a bunch of posts or anything like that, but I'll answer your above post in order to clarify my previous post, then go back to mostly lurking in this thread.

Shipping - I use the companies who offer free shipping. Predominantly Troll Trader and Firestorm. None of them are in Jersey or Guernsey, and so I know that the VAT money is being used to cover shipping. With the stuff I buy, and my pretty decent knowledge of RM, I know that sometimes they make a bit, sometimes they "lose" a bit on it. Either way they have made the decision that the additional money they make from international business is worthwhile, since it encourages people like myself to order from them. While it means their margins on some items might be squashed a little more, it's money they're making in the end that you're not. If you resurrected the 40 quid free shipping on a permanent basis, then this would negate that issue, despite it being a little more than the above two companies. The despatch time would still be an issue, however.

Creased book - it was creased inside the box. Packed with other items. We're talking creased by the packer in this specifc instance (it was clearly bent while being shoved into an internal box inside the shipping box). Not "bent by the postal services". If you ask me to return some faulty product across the planet for replacement, the way to do it is to send my replacement, and then ask for the faulty product to be returned. Not "send it back and then we'll replace it." Especially for a business who takes as long as yours does to ship. The comment "If we asked you to return a parcel then it will have been for a good reason." unfortunately reeks of a condescending tone. While I understand that you may be concerned about being taken advantage of by unscrupulous consumers, I am and have never been one of those, and so find "send it back first" to be insulting and a waste of 4+ additional weeks of transit time for something I've bought and paid for. So it's just simpler to take my business elsewhere/where it's appreciated.

Trays - I might actually take a photo if I get around to it. Your response makes total sense for someone who is simply reading what I posted. If you saw the trays, you might understand my complaint a little better. It's not at all a posing issue - the trays are too short by a solid 15mm to actually fit in a stock standard Dreadnought or Warjack - without standard poles, flags, etc, built in the most boring and standard manner - no arms raised or waving about. So the tops stick out and the trays can then not be stacked, etc. While I don't expect Wayland or any retailer to measure each foam tray or personally examine every SKU from every manufacturer, if something is not fit for purpose, you as the vendor still need to stand behind the product. I didn't complain on this one though, as I've experienced Wayland's brand of customer service - as noted above - so I simply wrote it off as a loss, cross off the "I'll give them another chance" and decided to never to buy from you again.

While you might understandably feel this is unfair, and that I did not give you even an opportunity to resolve the issue (and you'd be correct there), if you're interested in customer service, reputation and customer retention, you might want to look at why I've simply decided not to bother and written off £58.50 (just checked the invoice - so a decent chunk more than the AU$70 I remembered it as) over trying to resolve the issue with you. The answer is because I felt that your customer service would be horrible to try and deal with again, and that you'd refuse to resolve the issue to my satisfaction. So I didn't bother and have been spending my money elsewhere regularly ever since with retailers who appreciate my business and have good and responsive customer service.

The book issue was in October 2012. These two posts are the only time I've ever bothered telling anyone about the trays, BTW. which were bought in Jan 2013. It's not something I've embraced as a Wayland-Martyr or as an axe to constantly grind or anything like that. I thought it worth mentioning in this thread as something to enlighten you in your CSR position about myself as a lost customer and the reasons why, as you appear to be genuine in your interactions here.


Hi Azazelx,

Shipping costs are a major factor to any on-line business. We offer the best rates that we can on all shipping, and while we would love to be able to offer free shipping on every order we are not always able to do so.

There could be a thousand reasons why an item is damaged before it reaches you, we never have and never will pack and ship any damaged items. Your parcel may have been opened by customs for example. We are happy to pay for return shipping of a damaged item, and for the shipping cost to send you a replacement. These are our terms.

All product data or descriptions are based on the information given to us by the manufacturer or supplier. If you receive an item that does not match its description or specifications, we will chase this matter up and find a solution. If you do not contact us and let us know then we cannot help. If you had contacted us we would have chased the manufacturer directly and found the correct solution.

Saying that our customer service is bad based on a single isolated event is extremely biased and does reflect on the thousands of orders that are placed with us. I am very sorry to hear that you feel that our service is bad just because you did not agree with the process for damaged products but it is simply unfair to claim our service is bad just because we do not operate exactly the way you wish and what, in your opinion, is would be the correct way to proceed.

Regards
Jake @ Wayland

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/04/28 11:20:41


   
Made in au
Pustulating Plague Priest




I'm pretty sure customs informs you if they opened your package, I've received a few notifications from them.

There’s a difference between having a hobby and being a narcissist.  
   
Made in au
[MOD]
Not as Good as a Minion






Brisbane

Joyboozer wrote:
I'm pretty sure customs informs you if they opened your package, I've received a few notifications from them.


Yeah, you get a note and everything over here if they do that, so Azazel would have known if it was on your end or custom's end.

I wish I had time for all the game systems I own, let alone want to own... 
   
Made in au
Unstoppable Bloodthirster of Khorne





Melbourne .au

 Jake-Wayland wrote:

Shipping costs are a major factor to any on-line business. We offer the best rates that we can on all shipping, and while we would love to be able to offer free shipping on every order we are not always able to do so.

There could be a thousand reasons why an item is damaged before it reaches you, we never have and never will pack and ship any damaged items. Your parcel may have been opened by customs for example. We are happy to pay for return shipping of a damaged item, and for the shipping cost to send you a replacement. These are our terms.


Hello Jake.

I've said my piece on shipping. If Wayland disagrees, then c'est la vie. Others are happy to ship differently, after all - and even Wayland manages to offer it from time to time, which as I said negates most of the issue when it's active. I think we can safely agree to let that one rest?

Regarding your shirking of responsibility - Please do not insult my fething intelligence. The book was damaged by your packer jamming it into the cardboard slip that was supposed to protect it. It was not customs. It was not the postal service. On the rare occasion when they open a parcel, they sticker it with a "opened and inspected by Australian Customs" sticker, reseal it with Australia Post/Australian Customs tape and include one of their "protecting our borders" pamphlets. The other Aussies will be able to verify this.



All product data or descriptions are based on the information given to us by the manufacturer or supplier. If you receive an item that does not match its description or specifications, we will chase this matter up and find a solution. If you do not contact us and let us know then we cannot help. If you had contacted us we would have chased the manufacturer directly and found the correct solution.

Saying that our customer service is bad based on a single isolated event is extremely biased and does reflect on the thousands of orders that are placed with us. I am very sorry to hear that you feel that our service is bad just because you did not agree with the process for damaged products but it is simply unfair to claim our service is bad just because we do not operate exactly the way you wish and what, in your opinion, is would be the correct way to proceed.

Regards
Jake @ Wayland


The correct way to proceed on the issue of the book would have been:

a) Wayland apologises, send out a replacement book on proof (photo, etc) of the damaged goods immediately.

b) If Wayland wants it returned, that's fine. You ask me to get you a postage quote with whatever extras Wayland requires (tracking, etc) and then send me the shipping money in advance rather than expecting me to front the additional costs for Wayland's mistake and be out of pocket an additional amount (more than the cost of the book, I might add) until whenever Wayland gets around to reimbursing it - which would obviously be at least the time the book would take to make it back to the UK, plus Wayland's processing time.

c) Basically, when the mistake/damage is on your end, expecting the consumer to pay for, or even be out of pocket for several weeks in order to fix your mistake is poor form of the highest order.

Expecting me to return the book at my own cost and then wait another month at minimum to receive a replacement and reimbursement for the shipping is poor service. It would also be getting towards a 2-month turnaround in order to receive product paid for in good faith. Sorry. Not good enough. I am aware (now) that it's your policy, but my policy is not to deal with companies who treat the customer this way. While the next comment is indeed very reminiscent of Milhouse Van Houten's "My dad is a big wheel down at the cracker factory", I spend many thousands of dollars per year (literally a few hundred quid each week) on hobby-related items. Admittedly, at least half of that goes to Kickstarters and eBay and direct-to-producer items these days. But still, gakky service on Wayland's part simply means that I have taken my retail business elsewhere rather than becoming a regular customer.


With regard to the Battlefoam inserts, as I stated before, yes, it's "unfair" that I didn't give Wayland the chance to rectify the issue, and it's not in any way Wayland Games' fault that Battlefoam labelled their product in a misleading manner, or that I didn't copy down the dimensions and measure them against the figures they were supposedly designed to fit.

The pertinent thing is that based on my previous experiences with your customer service I felt that at the very best I would have been expected to pay upfront to ship them back to you (Australia Post is very expensive, RM is dirt cheap by comparison), and more likely the response would be "measurements are listed, tough luck!" So I basically thought to myself "feth it - it's not worth even trying to deal with them again" and wrote the trays off as a loss, rather than try to deal with Wayland customer service again - along with the idea of dealing with Wayland at all again. The foam inserts are still sitting unused in a pile on top of the wardrobe where I put them, like so much useless crap.

I've just gone through the posts and changed all of the instances of "you" to "Wayland", since it's obviously not you (Jake) who I interacted with with the book debacle. It's not personal, after all (except for the customs bit). Trying to blame customs grates as well, quite frankly. Oh, the box was clearly never opened and resealed, either. Original tape, etc. I took photos at the time. The book wasn't a malicious act on the part of your packer, either. At worst it was careless, but really, just a simple mistake/bump/fold that caused the cover to catch on the cardboard and become damaged. gak happens, after all. It's how people or businesses deal with it when it does happen that really influences my future interaction with them.


Ultimately, I'm not exactly likely to return as a customer at this point. That ship has sailed on my end, and I think that bridge is now pretty much burnt on your end due to this thread. However, if you truly want to improve your customer service, you may want to examine/revisit a), b) and c) above, since those are the main factors that resulted in my writing off a 60 quid loss and giving up on Wayland as a retailer who I deal with.


   
Made in gb
Fixture of Dakka







While I am a huge fan of Wayland and I have never had an issue with them, my own feeling is that there's not a single thing in Azazelx's post there that seems unfair or unreasonable to me.
   
Made in au
Norn Queen






 Compel wrote:
While I am a huge fan of Wayland and I have never had an issue with them, my own feeling is that there's not a single thing in Azazelx's post there that seems unfair or unreasonable to me.


This.

Primarily regarding the book, as mentioned already by other Australians, I'll add it again.

If customs opens your package, they reseal it with customs tape and leave a notification sticker. If Australia Post opens it, they do the same with their own tape or sticker.

What Wayland is suggesting here is Australian customs or Australia Post opened the package as neatly as possible, slid the book out carefully, jammed it back in creasing it, then rummaged around to find the same tape Wayland used to seal it and spent a lot of effort making sure it looked like no one ever touched it. That is absurd.

Even if it was a case of unauthorised opening, take it from someone who works closely with Australia Post and also has seen it happen to their own package - there's no reason to be careful about it. Theives working customs or Australia Post will simply punch a hole in the side and take what they want, then throw the package back in circulation - if they even bother to do that.

Getting a package in neat order, with no Australia Post or Australian customs labels or sealing tape, with a creased book inside? Sorry, that was creased when packing.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/05/03 09:39:17


 
   
Made in gb
Skink Armed with a Blowpipe





 Azazelx wrote:
 Jake-Wayland wrote:

Shipping costs are a major factor to any on-line business. We offer the best rates that we can on all shipping, and while we would love to be able to offer free shipping on every order we are not always able to do so.

There could be a thousand reasons why an item is damaged before it reaches you, we never have and never will pack and ship any damaged items. Your parcel may have been opened by customs for example. We are happy to pay for return shipping of a damaged item, and for the shipping cost to send you a replacement. These are our terms.


Hello Jake.

I've said my piece on shipping. If Wayland disagrees, then c'est la vie. Others are happy to ship differently, after all - and even Wayland manages to offer it from time to time, which as I said negates most of the issue when it's active. I think we can safely agree to let that one rest?

Regarding your shirking of responsibility - Please do not insult my fething intelligence. The book was damaged by your packer jamming it into the cardboard slip that was supposed to protect it. It was not customs. It was not the postal service. On the rare occasion when they open a parcel, they sticker it with a "opened and inspected by Australian Customs" sticker, reseal it with Australia Post/Australian Customs tape and include one of their "protecting our borders" pamphlets. The other Aussies will be able to verify this.



All product data or descriptions are based on the information given to us by the manufacturer or supplier. If you receive an item that does not match its description or specifications, we will chase this matter up and find a solution. If you do not contact us and let us know then we cannot help. If you had contacted us we would have chased the manufacturer directly and found the correct solution.

Saying that our customer service is bad based on a single isolated event is extremely biased and does reflect on the thousands of orders that are placed with us. I am very sorry to hear that you feel that our service is bad just because you did not agree with the process for damaged products but it is simply unfair to claim our service is bad just because we do not operate exactly the way you wish and what, in your opinion, is would be the correct way to proceed.

Regards
Jake @ Wayland


The correct way to proceed on the issue of the book would have been:

a) Wayland apologises, send out a replacement book on proof (photo, etc) of the damaged goods immediately.

b) If Wayland wants it returned, that's fine. You ask me to get you a postage quote with whatever extras Wayland requires (tracking, etc) and then send me the shipping money in advance rather than expecting me to front the additional costs for Wayland's mistake and be out of pocket an additional amount (more than the cost of the book, I might add) until whenever Wayland gets around to reimbursing it - which would obviously be at least the time the book would take to make it back to the UK, plus Wayland's processing time.

c) Basically, when the mistake/damage is on your end, expecting the consumer to pay for, or even be out of pocket for several weeks in order to fix your mistake is poor form of the highest order.

Expecting me to return the book at my own cost and then wait another month at minimum to receive a replacement and reimbursement for the shipping is poor service. It would also be getting towards a 2-month turnaround in order to receive product paid for in good faith. Sorry. Not good enough. I am aware (now) that it's your policy, but my policy is not to deal with companies who treat the customer this way. While the next comment is indeed very reminiscent of Milhouse Van Houten's "My dad is a big wheel down at the cracker factory", I spend many thousands of dollars per year (literally a few hundred quid each week) on hobby-related items. Admittedly, at least half of that goes to Kickstarters and eBay and direct-to-producer items these days. But still, gakky service on Wayland's part simply means that I have taken my retail business elsewhere rather than becoming a regular customer.


With regard to the Battlefoam inserts, as I stated before, yes, it's "unfair" that I didn't give Wayland the chance to rectify the issue, and it's not in any way Wayland Games' fault that Battlefoam labelled their product in a misleading manner, or that I didn't copy down the dimensions and measure them against the figures they were supposedly designed to fit.

The pertinent thing is that based on my previous experiences with your customer service I felt that at the very best I would have been expected to pay upfront to ship them back to you (Australia Post is very expensive, RM is dirt cheap by comparison), and more likely the response would be "measurements are listed, tough luck!" So I basically thought to myself "feth it - it's not worth even trying to deal with them again" and wrote the trays off as a loss, rather than try to deal with Wayland customer service again - along with the idea of dealing with Wayland at all again. The foam inserts are still sitting unused in a pile on top of the wardrobe where I put them, like so much useless crap.

I've just gone through the posts and changed all of the instances of "you" to "Wayland", since it's obviously not you (Jake) who I interacted with with the book debacle. It's not personal, after all (except for the customs bit). Trying to blame customs grates as well, quite frankly. Oh, the box was clearly never opened and resealed, either. Original tape, etc. I took photos at the time. The book wasn't a malicious act on the part of your packer, either. At worst it was careless, but really, just a simple mistake/bump/fold that caused the cover to catch on the cardboard and become damaged. gak happens, after all. It's how people or businesses deal with it when it does happen that really influences my future interaction with them.


Ultimately, I'm not exactly likely to return as a customer at this point. That ship has sailed on my end, and I think that bridge is now pretty much burnt on your end due to this thread. However, if you truly want to improve your customer service, you may want to examine/revisit a), b) and c) above, since those are the main factors that resulted in my writing off a 60 quid loss and giving up on Wayland as a retailer who I deal with.



Azazelx,

I mentioned customs opening the parcel just as an example, I did not say that this is what had happened. There are plenty of other reasons as to how the book may have been damaged. I can not give you the exact reason as I do not know. There is no proof that the book was damaged by our team, all of our staff are dedicated to their jobs and are always very careful to pack a product safely and securely. It is unfair to automatically assume that the fault is ours.
We have a process to deal with damaged products regardless of how they became damaged, again it is unfortunate if you do not agree with this process but it is the way things have to be done. In a perfect world we would be able to take everyone word that they will ship an item back to us if we send a replacement, however this is not a perfect world. I am not trying to say that yourself or any of our customers are untrustworthy at all, and I hope you do not read it in that manner, but we can not simply immediately ship replacement products out to every customer who claims an item is damaged without ensuring we have received the damaged ones first. We have to protect ourselves as well, I sure you can understand that.

 -Loki- wrote:
 Compel wrote:
While I am a huge fan of Wayland and I have never had an issue with them, my own feeling is that there's not a single thing in Azazelx's post there that seems unfair or unreasonable to me.


This.

Primarily regarding the book, as mentioned already by other Australians, I'll add it again.

If customs opens your package, they reseal it with customs tape and leave a notification sticker. If Australia Post opens it, they do the same with their own tape or sticker.

What Wayland is suggesting here is Australian customs or Australia Post opened the package as neatly as possible, slid the book out carefully, jammed it back in creasing it, then rummaged around to find the same tape Wayland used to seal it and spent a lot of effort making sure it looked like no one ever touched it. That is absurd.

Even if it was a case of unauthorised opening, take it from someone who works closely with Australia Post and also has seen it happen to their own package - there's no reason to be careful about it. Theives working customs or Australia Post will simply punch a hole in the side and take what they want, then throw the package back in circulation - if they even bother to do that.

Getting a package in neat order, with no Australia Post or Australian customs labels or sealing tape, with a creased book inside? Sorry, that was creased when packing.


Loki,

I mentioned customs opening the parcel just as an example, there are plenty of other reasons as to how the book may have been damaged. I did not say that this is the exact reason as to how the book may have been damaged.

Regards
Jake @ Wayland.

   
Made in au
Unstoppable Bloodthirster of Khorne





Melbourne .au

 Jake-Wayland wrote:

Azazelx,

I mentioned customs opening the parcel just as an example, I did not say that this is what had happened. There are plenty of other reasons as to how the book may have been damaged. I can not give you the exact reason as I do not know. There is no proof that the book was damaged by our team, all of our staff are dedicated to their jobs and are always very careful to pack a product safely and securely. It is unfair to automatically assume that the fault is ours.
We have a process to deal with damaged products regardless of how they became damaged, again it is unfortunate if you do not agree with this process but it is the way things have to be done. In a perfect world we would be able to take everyone word that they will ship an item back to us if we send a replacement, however this is not a perfect world. I am not trying to say that yourself or any of our customers are untrustworthy at all, and I hope you do not read it in that manner, but we can not simply immediately ship replacement products out to every customer who claims an item is damaged without ensuring we have received the damaged ones first. We have to protect ourselves as well, I sure you can understand that.

I mentioned customs opening the parcel just as an example, there are plenty of other reasons as to how the book may have been damaged. I did not say that this is the exact reason as to how the book may have been damaged.

Regards
Jake @ Wayland.


Hi Jake,
You're being a bit ridiculous here. Give us some examples of the "plenty of other reasons as to how the book may have been damaged" within a cardboard wrap inside a sealed and unopened box with other product. Like I said, I believe the damage was accidental and not malicious, but you're just being silly now, and undermining your own credibility.

I can only think of two, besides "the postal service" and "customs".
The obvious (implied) one is that the customer is clumsy, and caused the damage themselves, and than asks for a new one. The darker one (implied more broadly) is that customers will purposefully damage goods in order to get a second, free one.

Now you're attempting to use the burden of proof as your defence, while knowing that it's pretty much impossible to prove something like this in a mail-order transaction, short of every Wayland customer making an unedited "unboxing video" every time they open a parcel from yourselves. While I do understand Wayland's perspective, you'd probably do well to understand mine as well, and just how unreasonable it all is. (8 weeks + being out of pocket just to properly receive items paid for?) If I were malicious, I'd have sent it back via the most expensive option instead of writing the book off. And then done the same with the foam trays. What I probably should have done instead would be to initiate a VISA chargeback on the book, and then not bothered to give Wayland another chance with the trays.

Anyway, I can't really be bothered with this discussion anymore. Hopefully my unfortunate interaction with Wayland then and now (your but no, because reasons argument) can make your present and future customers a little more informed as to what they can expect if they have any issues in their order, so they know what to expect if something should go wrong.

cheerio,


   
Made in fk
Longtime Dakkanaut





Wishing I was back at the South Atlantic, closer to ice than the sun

I think you're both being childish here.

Azazelx, just go and take a look at some of the ebay threads on here about some of the scams that go on when selling stuff overseas. Now factor in that for one person it is an annoyance, for a business it can be devastating. Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me.

As for the book, from the sounds of you description, the book was damaged inside it's cover, correct? So was that cover a Wayland cover or a Manufacturers cover?

I have bought, unfortunately, books direct from the printer with creased pages before. the paper had got jammed inside their own equipment, but they still shipped it. So it's perfectly possible that Wayland received damaged stock in the first place and unwittingly shipped it on.

Cheers

Andrew

I don't care what the flag says, I'm SCOTTISH!!!

Best definition of the word Battleship?
Mr Nobody wrote:
Does a canoe with a machine gun count?
 
   
Made in au
[MOD]
Not as Good as a Minion






Brisbane

 AndrewC wrote:
So it's perfectly possible that Wayland received damaged stock in the first place and unwittingly shipped it on.


Well not really, not according to the Wayland rep here.

all of our staff are dedicated to their jobs and are always very careful to pack a product safely and securely.


So why would they pack damaged goods?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/05/05 13:10:40


I wish I had time for all the game systems I own, let alone want to own... 
   
Made in fk
Longtime Dakkanaut





Wishing I was back at the South Atlantic, closer to ice than the sun

That's what I'm trying to find out. Az wrote that it was packing inside a cardboard cover slip before being put into the box mailed to him. Or at least that's how I read it. Some of the printers send out their products already inside these slips to the retailers to sell on. Since I have encountered the exact same damage on a supposedly premium product I am wondering if something similar has happened here.

I doubt that Wayland would open every single item of stock to ensure it is in perfect condition.

Cheers

Andrew

I don't care what the flag says, I'm SCOTTISH!!!

Best definition of the word Battleship?
Mr Nobody wrote:
Does a canoe with a machine gun count?
 
   
Made in gb
Obergefreiter




United Kingdom

Any number of the explanations give here are plausible. No-one is accusing anyone of lying (and I give an apology if anyone got that impression). We agree with Azazelx - Let's let the matter rest as I think it unlikely that any amount of platitudes or wordplay is going to get this matter resolved to everyone's satisfaction.

Our free shipping promo is back btw!

   
Made in at
Slashing Veteran Sword Bretheren





 Stuart-Wayland wrote:
Any number of the explanations give here are plausible. No-one is accusing anyone of lying (and I give an apology if anyone got that impression). We agree with Azazelx - Let's let the matter rest as I think it unlikely that any amount of platitudes or wordplay is going to get this matter resolved to everyone's satisfaction.

Our free shipping promo is back btw!



along with a stealth price rise (aka discount reduction from 20% to 15%) for most of your line. so the question is, are we really saving anything

2000 l 2000 l 2000 l 1500 l 1000 l 1000 l Blood Ravens (using Ravenguard CT) 1500 l 1500 l
Eldar tactica l Black Templars tactica l Tau tactica l Astra Militarum codex summary l 7th ed summary l Tutorial: Hinged Land Raider doors (easy!) l My blog: High Gothic Musings
 Ravenous D wrote:
40K is like a beloved grandparent that is slowly falling into dementia and the rest of the family is in denial about how bad it is.
squidhills wrote:
GW is scared of girls. Why do you think they have so much trouble sculpting attractive female models? Because girls have cooties and the staff at GW don't like looking at them for too long because it makes them feel funny in their naughty place.
 
   
Made in gb
Multispectral Nisse




Luton, UK

Not seeing any price rises on anything I've had an eye on myself.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/05/06 11:03:29


“Good people are quick to help others in need, without hesitation or requiring proof the need is genuine. The wicked will believe they are fighting for good, but when others are in need they’ll be reluctant to help, withholding compassion until they see proof of that need. And yet Evil is quick to condemn, vilify and attack. For Evil, proof isn’t needed to bring harm, only hatred and a belief in the cause.” 
   
Made in at
Slashing Veteran Sword Bretheren





 Riquende wrote:
Not seeing any price rises on anything I've had an eye on myself.


see http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/593575.page

2000 l 2000 l 2000 l 1500 l 1000 l 1000 l Blood Ravens (using Ravenguard CT) 1500 l 1500 l
Eldar tactica l Black Templars tactica l Tau tactica l Astra Militarum codex summary l 7th ed summary l Tutorial: Hinged Land Raider doors (easy!) l My blog: High Gothic Musings
 Ravenous D wrote:
40K is like a beloved grandparent that is slowly falling into dementia and the rest of the family is in denial about how bad it is.
squidhills wrote:
GW is scared of girls. Why do you think they have so much trouble sculpting attractive female models? Because girls have cooties and the staff at GW don't like looking at them for too long because it makes them feel funny in their naughty place.
 
   
Made in au
Unstoppable Bloodthirster of Khorne





Melbourne .au

 AndrewC wrote:
I think you're both being childish here.
Azazelx, just go and take a look at some of the ebay threads on here about some of the scams that go on when selling stuff overseas. Now factor in that for one person it is an annoyance, for a business it can be devastating. Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me.
As for the book, from the sounds of you description, the book was damaged inside it's cover, correct? So was that cover a Wayland cover or a Manufacturers cover?
I have bought, unfortunately, books direct from the printer with creased pages before. the paper had got jammed inside their own equipment, but they still shipped it. So it's perfectly possible that Wayland received damaged stock in the first place and unwittingly shipped it on.
Cheers
Andrew


Hi Andrew,
I'm aware that people can be unscrupulous. Regardless, I find being expected to wear the mistakes of a retailer to be unacceptable. That's not childish. A purchase transaction via mail order requires an amount of trust on both sides. Ultimately, if a retailer wants my business, they can show some trust in me as a customer. If not, then I won't be back. This isn't eBay, and as stated, it would have cost them more to have the book returned than simply to send me a replacement. Except it would have cost me the money until they got around to reimbursing it. And another 4-6 weeks to get the book on top of the 3 it had already taken. So I gave up, and "childishly"(?) wore their mistake and kept the damaged book that any other retailer who I am a regular customer with would have sorted out for me painlessly.

As for the damage. NO. The book was inside a piece of cardboard that was roughly the same size as the book and taped in the middle. Obviously to keep the book safe in the larger box (it was a small part of a larger order). Unfortunately, the book was damaged (cover folded over and torn - obviously when sliding it into the cardboard. If it was not damaged when sliding it in, then it was shipped to me with obvious damage before it was packed - and I'll agree with Jake in that I don't believe that Wayland would have intentionally shipped me damaged merchandise.)

I also believe that It's highly unlikely that the book was packed and stored in brown cardboard (it was in stock) in the Wayland warehouse and then mailed off without checking to see what was inside it. Though it if were stored in that manner, pulling it out and jamming it back in could have caused the damage.






Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Stuart-Wayland wrote:
Any number of the explanations give here are plausible. No-one is accusing anyone of lying (and I give an apology if anyone got that impression). We agree with Azazelx - Let's let the matter rest as I think it unlikely that any amount of platitudes or wordplay is going to get this matter resolved to everyone's satisfaction.


That would have been rather hard - no actual attempt was made by Wayland to resolve it or bring satisfaction in the thread, anyway.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/05/06 13:06:24


   
Made in gb
Multispectral Nisse




Luton, UK

 Sir Arun wrote:
 Riquende wrote:
Not seeing any price rises on anything I've had an eye on myself.


see http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/593575.page


Apparently just GW stuff then. Not "most of their line" at all. Thanks for the needless scaremongering. As I stated, I'm not seeing any rises on anything I usually check out.

Well, sucks to be a GW gamer I guess. For a great many reasons, from what I hear.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/05/06 15:56:11


“Good people are quick to help others in need, without hesitation or requiring proof the need is genuine. The wicked will believe they are fighting for good, but when others are in need they’ll be reluctant to help, withholding compassion until they see proof of that need. And yet Evil is quick to condemn, vilify and attack. For Evil, proof isn’t needed to bring harm, only hatred and a belief in the cause.” 
   
Made in se
Civil War Re-enactor





Scaremongering and bandwagoning is the lulz though, to be fair.

Shotgun wrote:
I don't think I will ever understand the mentality of people that feel the need to record and post their butthurt on the interwebs.
 
   
Made in gb
Thunderhawk Pilot Dropping From Orbit





Scotland

After my most recent debacle with Wayland, I can categorically say that I will not be using them again.

I had 2 orders sitting with them for X wing stuff. Now I appreciate that X wing restocks are few and far between, which makes the following situation worse;

Contacted them a couple of days ago to find out the stock situation, as rumours were flying that a UK restock was imminent. Was advised they aren't expecting stock until June. Having looked around some other stores, and found that my gifts for geeks order had despatched, I contacted them again, advising if they can't fulfil the order, then cancel it and I'll buy elsewhere. By this stage, other stockists were showing, amongst other things, the rebel transport I'd pre-ordered in stock. Imagine my surprise to hear from wayland; advising, they had actually received a restock, but had sold out of the transport (and interceptors); both items I'd ordered months ago.

If I hadn't raised the help desk ticket, they'd have been happy to just let me wait and wait, until every other stockist had sold out too. I've since ordered elsewhere (despatched immediately), and am waiting on a refund...

Wayland, your customer service really does suck. I won't be using you again in future for leaving me hanging, and probably flogging my pre-ordered transport to someone else. Shame, because I've spend £2-3k with you in the last few years.

   
Made in gb
Multispectral Nisse




Luton, UK

To be fair, if they have 100 preorders or backorders for restocks, and only receive 50 of the item, what can they do? They're not necessarily selling 'yours' to someone else, they could just have prior orders to fulfill.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/05/10 15:29:06


“Good people are quick to help others in need, without hesitation or requiring proof the need is genuine. The wicked will believe they are fighting for good, but when others are in need they’ll be reluctant to help, withholding compassion until they see proof of that need. And yet Evil is quick to condemn, vilify and attack. For Evil, proof isn’t needed to bring harm, only hatred and a belief in the cause.” 
   
Made in gb
Thunderhawk Pilot Dropping From Orbit





Scotland

Yeah, I appreciate that, but they should maybe let me know so I can source elsewhere, instead of just expecting me to wait another god knows how many months. If they aren't getting enough stock in, when much smaller retailers are sitting with 50+ in stock, they either need to speak to their distributor or their stock manager.

   
Made in cz
Cloud of Flies





Digging out this old thread to express my feelings about the service...

I have ordered mixed, non-GW stuff, part of it in stock, part of it in the "3-9 days to ship" category. In a week time after ordering I received a note that the goods will be stocked with at least one week delay, thus meaning 3+ weeks shipment time for goods listed as "Available in 3-9 days".

I like the discount and free shipping, but frankly, if I retained loyalty to local shops, most of the stuff I could get in our country by this or next week paying only a couple % more.

I appreciate personal experience differs case by case, this is just my current feeling.
   
Made in gb
Skink Armed with a Blowpipe





 gev wrote:
Digging out this old thread to express my feelings about the service...

I have ordered mixed, non-GW stuff, part of it in stock, part of it in the "3-9 days to ship" category. In a week time after ordering I received a note that the goods will be stocked with at least one week delay, thus meaning 3+ weeks shipment time for goods listed as "Available in 3-9 days".

I like the discount and free shipping, but frankly, if I retained loyalty to local shops, most of the stuff I could get in our country by this or next week paying only a couple % more.

I appreciate personal experience differs case by case, this is just my current feeling.


Hi Gev,

✔ Available(Typically Ships in 3-9 Working Days) means the item is available for us to order and are normally shipped out within the time frame shown. The typical 3-9 working days is derived from the thousands of orders that have been placed with us over the years.Turnaround times are indications rather than guarantees as fluctuations in supply and demand can sometimes cause a backlog.

As I have said before we are not a manufacturer so we have to rely on a supply chain for all items. If there is a delay somewhere in the production side of things or even with the couriers it delays us shipping out orders. We do everything that we can to prevent delays but it is not always possible.

If you would like to discuss your order further feel free to PM me email our helpdesk http://waylandgames.freshdesk.com/support/home

Regards
Jake @wayland

   
Made in gb
Painting Within the Lines




I'm not sure if this has been answered so here goes..

I have had 3 orders from Wayland. All three have been delivered later than quoted.

I asked at my local club and there were plenty of stories the same.

So either I live in a black hole, or your estimates are off and you aren't changing them because it would put people off.

Which is it?
   
Made in gb
Wrathful Warlord Titan Commander





Ramsden Heath, Essex

I ordered StormClaw over the weekend and got charged P&P when I had thought I wouldn't.

That being the case I raised a ticket found that I was mistaken and cancelled the order as I could get it cheaper elsewhere. I received a refund within minutes of asking.

I actually consider this to be very good service and will continue to use Wayland.


How do you promote your Hobby? - Legoburner "I run some crappy wargaming website " 
   
Made in dk
Screamin' Stormboy




The Division Of Joy wrote:
I'm not sure if this has been answered so here goes..

I have had 3 orders from Wayland. All three have been delivered later than quoted.

I asked at my local club and there were plenty of stories the same.

So either I live in a black hole, or your estimates are off and you aren't changing them because it would put people off.

Which is it?


I don't think I have gotten even a single order from them on time. Orders with Games Workshop products seems to be especially hard hit by delays.

In all honesty, I don't mind the slow delivery - I expect that from places like Wayland and Maelstrom. It's the "price" you pay for the discount offered.

What I do mind is the expected delivery dates (which never seem to hold water) as well as the fact that they try to make it look as though it's in stock, rather than openly admitting that they'll have to order it from a supplier.


I will add though, that even though the orders tend to take their sweet time to arrive, they always do arrive eventually.
   
 
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