Grey Knights are next ! - UPDATED 15/8 --- pre-order up on GW website

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**Deadshot**

exploited751 wrote:
Deadshot wrote:
exploited751 wrote:

5 pts for a LRC psybolt but 20 pts for a Storm Raven psybolt. 25 pts for PsyCann for termies, 10 for GKSS, 20 for paladins, 10 for purifiers when the incinerator is 20 for GKSS but free for them.

In 5th Ed, when GK was written, Psybolt was a bad thing on LRC because it made their sponson Hurricane Bolters a non-Defensive weapon. Normally it could be armed with a Stormbolter and Multimelta, and move 6" a turn and fire all its weaponry. With Psybolt it could only move 6" and fire any 1 weapon. Stormravens could be armed with Heavy Bolters, Assault Cannon and Hurricane bolters, and being a Fast vehicle with PoTMS, move 6" and fire everything. Or move 12" and fire 2 weapons.

The points are also consistant with fluff.
For example, for SS, objective holders and line troops, the versatile Psycannon was most expensive, being that it could fire on the move (when you moved towards an objective) or stay still and become more effective (when camping). Whereas Psilincer could only stay still but was better for objective camping, and Incinerator was short ranged (and Overwatch was no yet a thing).
Purifiers are elite guys and very Flamer orientated so get Incinerators for free, and the Psiliencers are highly anti-Daemon (Purifier's MO above all others). Psycannons again most expensive but eliteness makes them cheaper.
Interceptors get Psiliencers for free because it was not able to be used in conjunction with their benefit over Strike Squads; mobility. Psycannons lay in the mid ground of being usable on the move but most useful stationary. And Incinerators were "the best" for them because they suffered no penalty for moving.

Terminators get Incinerators cheapest, below Psiliencers, because Psilincers on a Terminator are relentless. Psycannons also benefit but are vastly more powerful.
Paladins are more elite and so are entrusted with more heavy weapons (so can take twice as many) and their hefty points cost and eliteness gives them a discount of 5 points.
GK Captains have a higher BS so take the Psilincer and Psycannon at even higher points that a Termy or Paladin, but the Incinerator is only 5pts or so because it isn't effected by the BS5.
GKGM has BS6 and so pays an additional 5 points more that the Captain for Psilincers and Psycannons (as much as a Rhino and Razorback respectively!) But the Incinerator stays the same.
Purgators gain benefits from all 3 weapons as the Devastator Squad and so is priced in order of fluff. Incinerator is short ranged when they perform fire support. Psilincer is static when they need to advance. Psycannon gives the best of both worlds.

A lot of inconsistencies when compared to the SM codex where plasmas are just 15 regardless if its a veteran, tactical or command sqaud.

Because every one of them, Veteran, Tactical or Command Squad (veteran) is going to fire at BS4, Str7 and AP2 with Gets Hot! They all perform the same job no matter what model its taken on.

Strike Squads get a much larger benefit from Psycannons vs the other 2. Interceptors get a better deal from the Incinerator. Purgators get the best deal with Psycannons. Terminators and Paladins get an awesome deal due to relentless, but the Incinerator isn't affected. Captains have relentless AND BS5. So more expensive. Grand Masters have BS6 and get to reroll to hit (needing 6s) so cost even more.

Its honestly a very consistent pricing. If something gets a bigger benefit towards it intended role, it becomes more expensive. Hence why Psilincers are free on Interceptors who are designed to be mobile, but expensive on Purgators who are designed to be static.

**blaktoof**

I predict there are no new upcoming GK releases.

But there is an upcoming Daemon release, which will have a campaign book that will have 2-3 GK formations.

**katfude**

I'll wait a little while before I glue arms on my terminators I got on the cheap to see which direction these rumors lead to for sure.

**exploited751**

katfude wrote:
I'll wait a little while before I glue arms on my terminators I got on the cheap to see which direction these rumors lead to for sure.

+1 on that. I just got ten more Marines and Termies last week for no reason other than there awesome. Gonna wait to see what weapons do what.

Deadshot wrote:
exploited751 wrote:
Deadshot wrote:
exploited751 wrote:

5 pts for a LRC psybolt but 20 pts for a Storm Raven psybolt. 25 pts for PsyCann for termies, 10 for GKSS, 20 for paladins, 10 for purifiers when the incinerator is 20 for GKSS but free for them.

In 5th Ed, when GK was written, Psybolt was a bad thing on LRC because it made their sponson Hurricane Bolters a non-Defensive weapon. Normally it could be armed with a Stormbolter and Multimelta, and move 6" a turn and fire all its weaponry. With Psybolt it could only move 6" and fire any 1 weapon. Stormravens could be armed with Heavy Bolters, Assault Cannon and Hurricane bolters, and being a Fast vehicle with PoTMS, move 6" and fire everything. Or move 12" and fire 2 weapons.

The points are also consistant with fluff.
For example, for SS, objective holders and line troops, the versatile Psycannon was most expensive, being that it could fire on the move (when you moved towards an objective) or stay still and become more effective (when camping). Whereas Psilincer could only stay still but was better for objective camping, and Incinerator was short ranged (and Overwatch was no yet a thing).
Purifiers are elite guys and very Flamer orientated so get Incinerators for free, and the Psiliencers are highly anti-Daemon (Purifier's MO above all others). Psycannons again most expensive but eliteness makes them cheaper.
Interceptors get Psiliencers for free because it was not able to be used in conjunction with their benefit over Strike Squads; mobility. Psycannons lay in the mid ground of being usable on the move but most useful stationary. And Incinerators were "the best" for them because they suffered no penalty for moving.

Terminators get Incinerators cheapest, below Psiliencers, because Psilincers on a Terminator are relentless. Psycannons also benefit but are vastly more powerful.
Paladins are more elite and so are entrusted with more heavy weapons (so can take twice as many) and their hefty points cost and eliteness gives them a discount of 5 points.
GK Captains have a higher BS so take the Psilincer and Psycannon at even higher points that a Termy or Paladin, but the Incinerator is only 5pts or so because it isn't effected by the BS5.
GKGM has BS6 and so pays an additional 5 points more that the Captain for Psilincers and Psycannons (as much as a Rhino and Razorback respectively!) But the Incinerator stays the same.
Purgators gain benefits from all 3 weapons as the Devastator Squad and so is priced in order of fluff. Incinerator is short ranged when they perform fire support. Psilincer is static when they need to advance. Psycannon gives the best of both worlds.

A lot of inconsistencies when compared to the SM codex where plasmas are just 15 regardless if its a veteran, tactical or command sqaud.

Because every one of them, Veteran, Tactical or Command Squad (veteran) is going to fire at BS4, Str7 and AP2 with Gets Hot! They all perform the same job no matter what model its taken on.

Strike Squads get a much larger benefit from Psycannons vs the other 2. Interceptors get a better deal from the Incinerator. Purgators get the best deal with Psycannons. Terminators and Paladins get an awesome deal due to relentless, but the Incinerator isn't affected. Captains have relentless AND BS5. So more expensive. Grand Masters have BS6 and get to reroll to hit (needing 6s) so cost even more.

Its honestly a very consistent pricing. If something gets a bigger benefit towards it intended role, it becomes more expensive. Hence why Psilincers are free on Interceptors who are designed to be mobile, but expensive on Purgators who are designed to be static.

And the command squad who gets bikes and becomes relentless who pays the same price for grav guns or plasma guns doesn't get an added benefit of charging with rapid fire or never shooting at salvo range as opposed to the veterans or tactical squad on foot. Also normal bikers guns are the same price as tact squad including plasma and grav.

**Deadshot**

exploited751 wrote:
katfude wrote:
I'll wait a little while before I glue arms on my terminators I got on the cheap to see which direction these rumors lead to for sure.

+1 on that. I just got ten more Marines and Termies last week for no reason other than there awesome. Gonna wait to see what weapons do what.

Deadshot wrote:
exploited751 wrote:
Deadshot wrote:
exploited751 wrote:

5 pts for a LRC psybolt but 20 pts for a Storm Raven psybolt. 25 pts for PsyCann for termies, 10 for GKSS, 20 for paladins, 10 for purifiers when the incinerator is 20 for GKSS but free for them.

In 5th Ed, when GK was written, Psybolt was a bad thing on LRC because it made their sponson Hurricane Bolters a non-Defensive weapon. Normally it could be armed with a Stormbolter and Multimelta, and move 6" a turn and fire all its weaponry. With Psybolt it could only move 6" and fire any 1 weapon. Stormravens could be armed with Heavy Bolters, Assault Cannon and Hurricane bolters, and being a Fast vehicle with PoTMS, move 6" and fire everything. Or move 12" and fire 2 weapons.

The points are also consistant with fluff.
For example, for SS, objective holders and line troops, the versatile Psycannon was most expensive, being that it could fire on the move (when you moved towards an objective) or stay still and become more effective (when camping). Whereas Psilincer could only stay still but was better for objective camping, and Incinerator was short ranged (and Overwatch was no yet a thing).
Purifiers are elite guys and very Flamer orientated so get Incinerators for free, and the Psiliencers are highly anti-Daemon (Purifier's MO above all others). Psycannons again most expensive but eliteness makes them cheaper.
Interceptors get Psiliencers for free because it was not able to be used in conjunction with their benefit over Strike Squads; mobility. Psycannons lay in the mid ground of being usable on the move but most useful stationary. And Incinerators were "the best" for them because they suffered no penalty for moving.

Terminators get Incinerators cheapest, below Psiliencers, because Psilincers on a Terminator are relentless. Psycannons also benefit but are vastly more powerful.
Paladins are more elite and so are entrusted with more heavy weapons (so can take twice as many) and their hefty points cost and eliteness gives them a discount of 5 points.
GK Captains have a higher BS so take the Psilincer and Psycannon at even higher points that a Termy or Paladin, but the Incinerator is only 5pts or so because it isn't effected by the BS5.
GKGM has BS6 and so pays an additional 5 points more that the Captain for Psilincers and Psycannons (as much as a Rhino and Razorback respectively!) But the Incinerator stays the same.
Purgators gain benefits from all 3 weapons as the Devastator Squad and so is priced in order of fluff. Incinerator is short ranged when they perform fire support. Psilincer is static when they need to advance. Psycannon gives the best of both worlds.

A lot of inconsistencies when compared to the SM codex where plasmas are just 15 regardless if its a veteran, tactical or command sqaud.

Because every one of them, Veteran, Tactical or Command Squad (veteran) is going to fire at BS4, Str7 and AP2 with Gets Hot! They all perform the same job no matter what model its taken on.

Strike Squads get a much larger benefit from Psycannons vs the other 2. Interceptors get a better deal from the Incinerator. Purgators get the best deal with Psycannons. Terminators and Paladins get an awesome deal due to relentless, but the Incinerator isn't affected. Captains have relentless AND BS5. So more expensive. Grand Masters have BS6 and get to reroll to hit (needing 6s) so cost even more.

Its honestly a very consistent pricing. If something gets a bigger benefit towards it intended role, it becomes more expensive. Hence why Psilincers are free on Interceptors who are designed to be mobile, but expensive on Purgators who are designed to be static.

And the command squad who gets bikes and becomes relentless who pays the same price for grav guns or plasma guns doesn't get an added benefit of charging with rapid fire or never shooting at salvo range as opposed to the veterans or tactical squad on foot. Also normal bikers guns are the same price as tact squad including plasma and grav.

Except that the benefits of bikes is included in the base price or upgrade price. Not only that, but bikes can't score, nor can Command Squads. At least when the book was written.

**exploited751**

You can say the same with paying the premium for terminator armor or the premium of purifiers etc...

**Deadshot**

exploited751 wrote:
You can say the same with paying the premium for terminator armor or the premium of purifiers etc...

You can, but then you leave out the fact that each squad has an intended roll and is affected differently by each weapon. Tacticals, Veterans and Command squads are all affected the same.

**exploited751**

Deadshot wrote:
exploited751 wrote:
You can say the same with paying the premium for terminator armor or the premium of purifiers etc...

You can, but then you leave out the fact that each squad has an intended roll and is affected differently by each weapon. Tacticals, Veterans and Command squads are all affected the same.

This is going no where.

**Deadshot**

exploited751 wrote:
Deadshot wrote:
exploited751 wrote:
You can say the same with paying the premium for terminator armor or the premium of purifiers etc...

You can, but then you leave out the fact that each squad has an intended roll and is affected differently by each weapon. Tacticals, Veterans and Command squads are all affected the same.

This is going no where.

How so?

**Mathieu Raymond**

I'm with Deadshot on this one, he summed it up perfectly. The roles and extra powers each had originally justified the price of the upgrades. They also influenced your choices towards the fluffiness of the unit.

Imagine that... GW caring about their fluff...

**Smotejob**

The increased ballistic skill is IMO paid for in the model. The price for the weapon should be the same regardless.

**Hulksmash**

No, it should be paid for in the model for what it's currently equipped with. Otherwise you're paying more for a model you don't upgrade to take say a psycannon with. GK codex was done right partially because they adjusted based on the squad load out options and abilities. Only wolves had really done that previously.

By the way, nice avatar

**Deadshot**

Smotejob wrote:
The increased ballistic skill is IMO paid for in the model. The price for the weapon should be the same regardless.

It is. If Captains were only BS4 they'd be cheaper. The weapons are more expensive because they have a much larger potential for damage with BS5 vs BS4. And an even larger one with BS6 hen ce the additional 5pts vs the Captain.

**agnosto**

No new rumors?

I don't like how GKs play now;it's too much bookkeeping to keep track of psychic powers, power dice, etc. Played a game vs a friend playing Daemons and the game drug on so long I just finally said, "Yeah, you win, I'm going to go home."

**WrentheFaceless**

agnosto wrote:
No new rumors?

I don't like how GKs play now;it's too much bookkeeping to keep track of psychic powers, power dice, etc. Played a game vs a friend playing Daemons and the game drug on so long I just finally said, "Yeah, you win, I'm going to go home."

If you dont like psychic powers, you're probably playing the wrong army for it

**Deadshot**

WrentheFaceless wrote:
agnosto wrote:
No new rumors?

I don't like how GKs play now;it's too much bookkeeping to keep track of psychic powers, power dice, etc. Played a game vs a friend playing Daemons and the game drug on so long I just finally said, "Yeah, you win, I'm going to go home."

If you dont like psychic powers, you're probably playing the wrong army for it

Can't blame a guy for that. GK have changed enormously in the 4 years they've beem around. When they first came out everything worked perfectly for them. Everyone had their own powers, it told you when to use them and the effect on the relevant page. Perils was simple. Roll a

or

and the squad leader took a wound with no armour, but a forced reroll on an invulnerable save if they have it. Or if there was no leader, a random, non-IC.

Enter 6th ed. Some things changed but mostly stayed the same. The only difference was Librarians really and DTW. The changes to Psychic wasn't a major blow like it was to other MEQ armies becaude GK had the Aegis, and Dreadnoughts (Psyflemen in particular) were prevelant still, and increased things from a -1Ld to -4Ld for enemy psykers. Plus, everyone being psykers meant a guarenteed 5+ DTW minimum. Librarians could still take their own powers but could also get Divination for Prescience. A Purgation Squad using their power to shoot around corners out of line of sight, combined with Prescience and 4 Psycannons, was murder on paper. If you got Perfect Timing you could even negate the automatic 4+ cover save.

Now come 7th ed. No one keeps their powers. Everyone rolls for it. Who has what power, how many Warp Charge do I get this turn, what effect of perils, how does Aegis work?

**WrentheFaceless**

Only certain models roll their powers, FAQ fixed there rest.

I like the 7th psychic phase though

**agnosto**

WrentheFaceless wrote:
Only certain models roll their powers, FAQ fixed there rest.

I like the 7th psychic phase though

You're right. I played it wrong. For some reason when I glanced through the FAQ, my eyes locked on the bold "Daemonology (Sanctic)" and I missed the two powers listed for strike squads et al.

I still don't like the warp charge generation and the psychic phase does slow things down.

OT
Do you all really think they'll remove Inquisition from the codex? It'd make for a very bland codex unless they add something in to replace them.

**pizzaguardian**

Also where would the assasins go? They already surprised me by not putting them in inq, i would be more surprised if all of them would be removed.

**thraxdown**

I think the new psychic phase has streamlined the psychic portions of my game. A daemons summon list is pretty tedious, but otherwise the psychic phase goes quickly. I rarely cast more than four or five powers a turn even with our sizeable psychic pool. They are much less reliable now though and I miss the old powers we lost. Does everyone feel we will get additional powers in the codex or will we just keep the ones in the brb? It makes me doubt this rumor even more, why would we get a new codex and just some objective cards especially if our psychic powers are not expanded? It seems our army would not change much save the loss of models (presuming inquisition and assassins get yanked), a couple point changes, and draigo being a lord of war - so what would be the point? I really hope this is a bogus rumor

**WrentheFaceless**

agnosto wrote:
WrentheFaceless wrote:
Only certain models roll their powers, FAQ fixed there rest.

I like the 7th psychic phase though

You're right. I played it wrong. For some reason when I glanced through the FAQ, my eyes locked on the bold "Daemonology (Sanctic)" and I missed the two powers listed for strike squads et al.

I still don't like the warp charge generation and the psychic phase does slow things down.

OT
Do you all really think they'll remove Inquisition from the codex? It'd make for a very bland codex unless they add something in to replace them.

If they do, i expect them to add in the rest of the genric space marine equipment/vehicles to make up for it. But 'psy'd' out.

**Rurik**

We need a new codex... not because of rule change... but a need of an official codex release... nowadays GK players are playing with a FAQ... common... its... just.... stupid...

**Kanluwen**

pizzaguardian wrote:
Also where would the assasins go? They already surprised me by not putting them in inq, i would be more surprised if all of them would be removed.

Away? Or into a supplement?

There's plenty of places for them to go--and it's would not be surprising if they decided to just get rid of them given how old the models are.

**tomjoad**

Kanluwen wrote:
pizzaguardian wrote:
Also where would the assasins go? They already surprised me by not putting them in inq, i would be more surprised if all of them would be removed.

Away? Or into a supplement?

There's plenty of places for them to go--and it's would not be surprising if they decided to just get rid of them given how old the models are.

But the models exist and are still for sale, right? I'd be surprised if they DIDN'T get moved out of C:GK and into their own Black Library DLC at this point, though.

**agnosto**

If I could wishlist, it would be for cheaper long-range guns. Special psycanons for the heavy support guys with longer range....that'd make them somewhat useful.

**thraxdown**

WrentheFaceless wrote:
agnosto wrote:
WrentheFaceless wrote:
Only certain models roll their powers, FAQ fixed there rest.

I like the 7th psychic phase though

You're right. I played it wrong. For some reason when I glanced through the FAQ, my eyes locked on the bold "Daemonology (Sanctic)" and I missed the two powers listed for strike squads et al.

I still don't like the warp charge generation and the psychic phase does slow things down.

OT
Do you all really think they'll remove Inquisition from the codex? It'd make for a very bland codex unless they add something in to replace them.

If they do, i expect them to add in the rest of the genric space marine equipment/vehicles to make up for it. But 'psy'd' out.

I don't like this either. I want Grey knights to keep a pretty unique flavor about the army and not just open the entire space marine armory to them.

**WrentheFaceless**

thraxdown wrote:
WrentheFaceless wrote:
agnosto wrote:
WrentheFaceless wrote:
Only certain models roll their powers, FAQ fixed there rest.

I like the 7th psychic phase though

You're right. I played it wrong. For some reason when I glanced through the FAQ, my eyes locked on the bold "Daemonology (Sanctic)" and I missed the two powers listed for strike squads et al.

I still don't like the warp charge generation and the psychic phase does slow things down.

OT
Do you all really think they'll remove Inquisition from the codex? It'd make for a very bland codex unless they add something in to replace them.

If they do, i expect them to add in the rest of the genric space marine equipment/vehicles to make up for it. But 'psy'd' out.

I don't like this either. I want Grey knights to keep a pretty unique flavor about the army and not just open the entire space marine armory to them.

Considering their fluff and having the best of everything, it seemed kindof weird they didnt have it already to me.

**Deadshot**

WrentheFaceless wrote:
thraxdown wrote:
WrentheFaceless wrote:
agnosto wrote:
WrentheFaceless wrote:
Only certain models roll their powers, FAQ fixed there rest.

I like the 7th psychic phase though

You're right. I played it wrong. For some reason when I glanced through the FAQ, my eyes locked on the bold "Daemonology (Sanctic)" and I missed the two powers listed for strike squads et al.

I still don't like the warp charge generation and the psychic phase does slow things down.

OT
Do you all really think they'll remove Inquisition from the codex? It'd make for a very bland codex unless they add something in to replace them.

If they do, i expect them to add in the rest of the genric space marine equipment/vehicles to make up for it. But 'psy'd' out.

I don't like this either. I want Grey knights to keep a pretty unique flavor about the army and not just open the entire space marine armory to them.

Considering their fluff and having the best of everything, it seemed kindof weird they didnt have it already to me.

Cuz they didn't need it. Predators are not great for hunting Daemons, as they tend to get up close, where you use Nemesis Force Weapons to kill them and banish them. Dreadnoughts provide fire support. Vindicators are for Sieges, which GK don't do. Whirlwinds are for sieges too, firing up and over things. GK just teleport into the midst of things or stand within sight of the rift. Hunters and Stalkers are only useful vs FMC Daemons, which Stormravens shoot down and Dreadknights finish off. Plus, all those tanks are hard to deploy. Bikes and Land Speeders are most often used for recon, which GK don't do. Centurions are new, and siege focused. Drop Pods can be intercepted, teleportation is safer (for GK). GK weapons are superior for killing Daemons to melta/plasma and they have a better version of heavy flamers availible to standard guys.

**Smotejob**

I think they should have some things like drop pod. They use drop pods in the fluff, why shouldn't they use them otherwise to reliably expedite their attack on demons.

Justicar... err... brother captain... errr... Alaric uses them quite a bit.

i agree with the other vehicles. We shouldn't have them and should get our own unique units as they are not good agains't demons. I think centurions would be good against demons though.

**Deadshot**

Smotejob wrote:
I think they should have some things like drop pod. They use drop pods in the fluff, why shouldn't they use them otherwise to reliably expedite their attack on demons.

Justicar... err... brother captain... errr... Alaric uses them quite a bit.

i agree with the other vehicles. We shouldn't have them and should get our own unique units as they are not good agains't demons. I think centurions would be good against demons though.

Because they don't need Drop Pods? They can teleport, even when in PA. Its more reliable for them, as it doesn't get shot out of the sky, they don't need lifting crew to retrieve the pods, so they can teleport away before being seen by Imperial reinforcements. And if they can't teleport, they use a Stormraven, which can also take a Dreadnought as well as the 12 guys inside. It can also shoot back and act as a gunship afterwards and them fly back to the Cruiser.

Centurions might work if they were equipped with GK tech. Paired doomfists and Incinerators for Assault, paired Psilincers, Psycannons or Grav-Cannon with Amp for Purgator. With chest mounted Rad-Launchers and Hurricane Bolters respectively, with upgrade options to Hurricane Bolter and Missile Launcher.