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Well this escalated quickly...

Given the thread title and OP I am surprised anyone has come on here expecting to see anything other than 'why I dislike/left GW', which would suggest they came in looking for a fight.

The more constructive approach would be to start a thread about why you're sticking with GW; y'know what inspires you about the changes they make? What new releases have you as giddy as a twelve year old getting his first model?

If someone then comes into that thread and starts telling you GW sucks I can see some slight justification for the amount of hostility displayed on the last page. However, in this thread, it is unacceptable and charges of trolling aren't wide of the mark.

Honestly if people want to discuss the reasons people are leaving in a civil manner then I'd be perfectly happy with people replying to someone who dislikes 7th ed rules with why they in fact like them.
Just like if I see someone in a 'why I'm sticking with GW' thread saying they think GW still make the best models on the market I'd like to debate that point.

But instead we have people who seem to think any criticism of GW is a personal insult and replying in kind.

 RunicFIN wrote:
Like I said before, I´ve seen it happen and it does. How does me saying your strong opinions aren´t crime relate to people behaving the way I describe?

It feels to me you´re just bickering out of spite now.

But mate, after reading your posts I´d say you fit the quota of a ( GW )"hater" pretty well. Just a neutral observation.

If you're neutral, then I'm the queen of France. your armor is so white that I'm going blind. For what it's worth, I never ran cheese lists that broke the game, never ran net lists, I just played and won or lost. But 6th was garbage. 7th sucks too. I hate what the game turned into-bloated and over complicated. Are the models still usually awesome? Yes. But they're over priced. And the rules attached to them suck. One day you'll either figure that out or be homeless with a sign saying "will work for warhams". Choice is yours.

Also: I love the Warhammer universe. Horus heresy is what the fall of Darth Vader SHOULD have been. I wish the game was still good. But it's not anymore. Numbers and facts have proven the number of people is declining while other game companies are stealing GW customers. Take the blinders off and look to what's really going on. Or don't. It's your money, your time, and ultimately your decision. But don't attack others, then declare yourself neutral.

@RunicFIN and OldSkoolGoff
So if you are not part of the reason then why are you posting in this thread, It is great that you love GW and think they can do no wrong.

But do not come here attacking people who do not agree with your view.

And waow, many posters here are long time GW aficionado's, i have only been playing GW for 25 years, so i think that gives me a voice on their recent business practices.

 OldSkoolGoff wrote:

Steelmage99 wrote:

 OldSkoolGoff wrote:
Runic is 100% bang on.

This is just another stupid XBOX vs Playstation turf war. I like GW games, I like some other games too. There's room for both.

But there will always be a small, vocal minority, that can't shut up about GW even though they claim not to even play GW games anymore.

Are you completely blind to the concept of some people really liking 40K and its setting, but hating what GW has become?
Do you understand that some people like the setting of 40K so much that they are willing to hang on despite the greedy and idiotic moves made by GW?

Do you get that some people hang around here and in other 40K/GW related threads and forums because they desperately look for a reason to keep playing?
Do you realize that most of us would like to play 40K for many years to come.....and that's why we rail against what GW is doing?

Sure. Do you realize that I remember when 3rd edition 40k came out and the exact same thing happened? Or when 8th fantasy came out?

Some people don't like new things. They get comfortable with things being one way and when those things are changed they can't handle it. 7th edition with the Maelstrom cards is probably actually MORE tactical than 5th (which you guys used to cry about when IT was the current system as well). 'Oh but I don't like Maelstrom blah blah blah' yeah well, Maelstrom makes the game balanced and tactical, so what do the crybabies do? Come up with a reason to hate Maelstrom so they can still cry.

What you guys who think you have it all figured out need to understand is some of us have been playing longer than you, have MORE information than you, MORE experience and end up at a different conclusion than you did. Which is fine. You can still play 5th edition 40k if you and your group like it better. No one is preventing you from doing that.

You literally have no idea what you're talking about. It's been stated many many times why people don't like Maelstrom missions and yet you make up fake reasons that are easier to argue against.
As a combat veteran I find Maelstrom missions to be completely ridiculous and it kicks me out of the immersion that like when I game. I laugh at the idea that one moment my LT is telling me to take the farm house and then the next minute telling me to shoot down a plane that isn't there and then come back to his position and sit there.
Maelstrom balances out bad codexes by making everything completely random. If it doesn't matter what army you play, why bother?
I could go on but you won't listen. You're not hear to listen to real reasons but to make up your own and put yourself on a pedestal.
And for the record, I've been playing since RT and I've NEVER seen the player base this fractured and upset with GW's direction. Never.
Oh, and I do adapt to change. I like change. When its for the better. What I don't like is change for the worse.

'As a combat veteran'

If you aren't open to the fact your objectives can and do change dynamically, then that's a massive fib. And that's accounting for the fact you seem to be American and therefore aren't used to as much dynamisim in your mission as other nations.

I've played since RT and never liked it more than now. I've had others say the same. And it's worth mentioning that the online community, and therefore whingepits like Dakka etc, have a loud3er voice than before thanks to technology.

The Division Of Joy wrote:
'As a combat veteran'

If you aren't open to the fact your objectives can and do change dynamically, then that's a massive fib. And that's accounting for the fact you seem to be American and therefore aren't used to as much dynamisim in your mission as other nations.

I've played since RT and never liked it more than now. I've had others say the same. And it's worth mentioning that the online community, and therefore whingepits like Dakka etc, have a loud3er voice than before thanks to technology.

Well yeah, but we're not playing a combat simulation. Not even a sci fi combat simulation. It's a heavily abstracted wargame, and you need to start considering balance and gameplay. It needs to be acheivable and fun for both parties with armies that aren't deciding the game at the faction selection stage, or it fails in its goal of being entertainment. Sure, objectives can change that fast and in real war, sometimes you're just hopelessly outmatched. It doesn't make for a particularly balanced game, nor fun game if you keep getting things you can't complete or chose an army the designers don't give a gak about anymore.

If we're going to start measuring dick length over time played, I haven't played that long. I got in at the start of 2nd edition. And I haven't enjoyed the game as much as I did during 3rd edition.

Opinions and all that. That's why people are in this thread. They don't share yours.

 -Loki- wrote:

You've become the people you're complaining about.

Well yeah, except that I'm the opposite. I came online to look for other 40k players to disuss the game with. Because I like the game. I want to discuss something I like. Instead, all I get in every thread is a mountain of people bitching about how much better the game used to be. Which is nothing new. That happens literally every edition. I just wish the people who rage quit at the beginning of 6th had ACTUALLY quit instead of just crying for 2 years and waiting for the next edition. At which point they started all over again.

There's a pretty big difference between going online seeking discussion on something you LIKE and going online to find an echo chamber to bitch and bitch incessantly about something you don't like. One is a costructive use of your time, the other is a masturbatory act designed to feed your own need to be right. About everything.

You guys are Comic Book Guy from the Simpsons now. 'Worst edition ever' blah blah blah. How about you put as much effort into liking something as you do into hating everything.

 OldSkoolGoff wrote:

 -Loki- wrote:

You've become the people you're complaining about.

Well yeah, except that I'm the opposite. I came online to look for other 40k players to disuss the game with. Because I like the game. I want to discuss something I like. Instead, all I get in every thread is a mountain of people bitching about how much better the game used to be. Which is nothing new. That happens literally every edition. I just wish the people who rage quit at the beginning of 6th had ACTUALLY quit instead of just crying for 2 years and waiting for the next edition. At which point they started all over again.

There's a pretty big difference between going online seeking discussion on something you LIKE and going online to find an echo chamber to bitch and bitch incessantly about something you don't like. One is a costructive use of your time, the other is a masturbatory act designed to feed your own need to be right. About everything.

You guys are Comic Book Guy from the Simpsons now. 'Worst edition ever' blah blah blah. How about you put as much effort into liking something as you do into hating everything.

You keep missing the fact that A) While true it's happened constantly, this is the worst it's ever been and that's 100% due to GW basically not giving a crap what people want (because they do no market research etc.) and putting out garbage and then having the gall to charge an arm and a leg for it, and B) 40k is the only game that seems to have this problem. There are complaints with Warmachine, Infinity, Malifaux and other games, but nowhere near the level of "Choose a side" like you see here. It's almost like 40k has two factions like in WoW, and both sides hate the other because reasons, except unlike WoW both sides actually need to cooperate in order to play the game.

I used to come to Dakka during 3rd edition (the original EZ Board forums) and there were still complaints then (mostly about assault and min/maxing IIRC but even then YMDC was the largest forum due to the dubious rules quality), but it's nowhere close to what you saw in 6th and now 7th edition. The game has gotten objectively worse, and now it's showing, and a big part of that is that GW is turning the game into something it's not but either doesn't know how or doesn't have the guts to actually change the core rules to facilitate that new direction. 40k is declining (slowly, but surely) while tabletop miniatures games are growing.

 OldSkoolGoff wrote:

 -Loki- wrote:

You've become the people you're complaining about.

Well yeah, except that I'm the opposite. I came online to look for other 40k players to disuss the game with. Because I like the game. I want to discuss something I like. Instead, all I get in every thread is a mountain of people bitching about how much better the game used to be. Which is nothing new. That happens literally every edition. I just wish the people who rage quit at the beginning of 6th had ACTUALLY quit instead of just crying for 2 years and waiting for the next edition. At which point they started all over again.

There's a pretty big difference between going online seeking discussion on something you LIKE and going online to find an echo chamber to bitch and bitch incessantly about something you don't like. One is a costructive use of your time, the other is a masturbatory act designed to feed your own need to be right. About everything.

You guys are Comic Book Guy from the Simpsons now. 'Worst edition ever' blah blah blah. How about you put as much effort into liking something as you do into hating everything.

The hypocrisy here is hilarious.

You accuse people who don't like GW games anymore of circlejerking about why they dislike it, and state that you want to find discussion.

Then in the same post state that it's only a constructive use of your time to find positive circlejerking. Negative opinions are not allowed.

Discussion has both points of view. That's why it's a discussion. You obviously know this. But it's not what you want by your own admission in that post.

My advice? Don't be like the people you hate. Yes, this thread is just here for people who dislike the games to discuss why. The very first post told you this, and the thread title would have hinted it to you. If you're not looking for this discussion, yet came in anyway to start an argument about it, then yes, you are exactly like the people who drop into a 40k thread to troll it. Only you're dropping into a GW negative thread to troll it.

My advice? Go circlejerk positively in threads that appeal to you. That's what you're looking for.

#i'mpartofthereason. I have several gripes with GW. One of the things that drove me away was their treatment of their employees. The one man store thing was a disaster. Managers could not even go to the bathroom without closing the store. There were also totally unrealistic sales expectations. This would lead to them getting reamed out by their supervisors. It is one thing to raise prices, but treating people badly is something else entirely. I did not approve, so I stopped buying GW products.

Other gripes include their poor rule sets, nerfing armies, squatting armies, and high prices/need lots of models to play. Fortunately, I do not need to worry about these things, as I am happily playing other games.

#i'malmostpartofthereason.

I still spend at GW - but only at Forgeworld. I'll reward what I perceive to be good value and I find Forgeworld's line of books and models to be good value. Yes, they are expensive but, for me, with Forgeworld's books, I find I can still enjoy games and campaigns based on the rich background the Imperial Armour or Horus Heresy series brings. The stories, explanations, equipment details and other richness is a blessing to 40k. They're well written, engaging and the models stay true to 40k of old.

As for buying from GW core, my only recent purchase was Space Hulk. Before that, I bought the last few bits and pieces from their Specialist Games range before they disappeared. I've not purchased the new 40k 7th rulebook, but probably will get a 2nd hand one when I need it. The majority of models released recently hold little appeal to me. Overblown proportions, a very in your face over the top style. Though the recent Imperial Knight release deserves praise and I will purchase one or two soon. It is an excellent model that bucks the current trend and style of 40k releases. I've moved on from their overpriced paints; Vallejo, Scale75 and others I prefer. Fantasy is a joke and my tastes lie elsewhere for my fantastical fix and, I can honestly say, I'll probably never buy into fantasy ever again - far too generic and bland at too high a cost.

As for games, I play plenty of other games now - X-Wing, War at Sea, Sedition Wars, Epic, Battlefleet Gothic and Darklands. And they're all getting plenty of money from me now.

 Grimtuff wrote:
GW is either haemorrhaging customers or the same amount of people are buying less. One of these things is true. The financials don't lie.

Or they might´ve made investments or competitors are causing less sales ( which always happens, regardless if a customer is happy with the other companys product. ) Their production might have not been in scale to the lessened demand and causing too much expenses. There are numerous other things that affect a financial report than just a wargames nerd who refuses to buy. People who don´t realizet this shouldn´t even discuss matters related to business.

 RunicFIN wrote:

 Grimtuff wrote:
GW is either haemorrhaging customers or the same amount of people are buying less. One of these things is true. The financials don't lie.

Or they might´ve made investments or competitors are causing less sales ( which always happens, regardless if a customer is happy with the other companys product. ) Their production might have not been in scale to the lessened demand and causing too much expenses. There are numerous other things that affect a financial report than just a wargames nerd who refuses to buy. People who don´t realizet this shouldn´t even discuss matters related to business.

You do realize that the financial report shows all the numbers for all of that and that it doesn't say anything of what you are talking about, right?

You'd be wise to go and read it before making baseless claims like you're making, you'd also be wise to go and read the analysis that people that are actual financial experts before making the claims that you are making but I'm thinking that that would be asking too much.

 timetowaste85 wrote:

If you're neutral, then I'm the queen of France. your armor is so white that I'm going blind.

Nah, just because I´m a realist doesn´t make me a white knight, sorry. GW´s isn´t the nicest of companies, I find Privateer Press has a much more customer friendly image ( and a balanced set of games ) and what I described before is still true. I can like Privateer Press more than GW and at the same time I can see GW won´t be going under in our lifetime, and that their financial reports aren´t caused by just players who refuse to buy, but by many other factors aswell. That´s what mature people are capable of, seeing things the way they really are and admitting that is the case, even if they don´t like it.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

PhantomViper wrote:

You do realize that the financial report shows all the numbers for all of that and that it doesn't say anything of what you are talking about, right?

You'd be wise to go and read it before making baseless claims like you're making, you'd also be wise to go and read the analysis that people that are actual financial experts before making the claims that you are making but I'm thinking that that would be asking too much.

It doesn´t show how competitors affect a companys finances, nor does it show the scale of production costs in scale to a declining demand. Maybe you should go read instead... but that´s probably too much to ask especially since you just said something paradoxical.

 RunicFIN wrote:

 timetowaste85 wrote:

If you're neutral, then I'm the queen of France. your armor is so white that I'm going blind.

Nah, just because I´m a realist doesn´t make me a white knight, sorry. GW´s isn´t the nicest of companies, I find Privateer Press has a much more customer friendly image ( and a balanced set of games ) and what I described before is still true. I can like Privateer Press more than GW and at the same time I can see GW won´t be going under in our lifetime, and that their financial reports aren´t caused by just players who refuse to buy, but by many other factors aswell. That´s what mature people are capable of, seeing things the way they really are and admitting that is the case, even if they don´t like it.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

PhantomViper wrote:

You do realize that the financial report shows all the numbers for all of that and that it doesn't say anything of what you are talking about, right?

You'd be wise to go and read it before making baseless claims like you're making, you'd also be wise to go and read the analysis that people that are actual financial experts before making the claims that you are making but I'm thinking that that would be asking too much.

It doesn´t show how competitors affect a companys finances, nor does it show the scale of production costs in scale to a declining demand. Maybe you should instead go read instead... but that´s probably too much to ask especially since you just said something paradoxical.

Nope. The financial reports clearly show a dramatic loss in sales. That means people are buying less. Everything else going bad is a separate issue.

Yeah, never said it doesn´t show loss in sales. I said:

"It doesn´t show how competitors affect a companys finances, nor does it show the scale of production costs in scale to a declining demand"

There is no "Privateer Press caused us to lose X amount of money" and so on in the report. Just general sales. And before that I said:

"Or they might´ve made investments or competitors are causing less sales"

-which isn´t all necessarily ( and most likely ) just because someone got fed up. People get interested about new products and things all the time without being displeased in their "original product of the same field." You can be completely satisfied about your car, and still exchange/buy another just because you feel like it.

 RunicFIN wrote:


It doesn´t show how competitors affect a companys finances, nor does it show the scale of production costs in scale to a declining demand. Maybe you should go read instead... but that´s probably too much to ask especially since you just said something paradoxical.

The report shows a 12% drop in sales. A drop in a financial year that not only included the release of SM, but of a new 40k edition as well. A drop in sales in an industry that is growing by double digits. Please explain to me oh wise one, how this can be interpreted in any other way than as the result of a drop in the number of overall customers or at least as the result of a drastic reduction in spending of existing customers.

And while you are at it, please explain how this is actually the sign of a healthy company instead, since that seems to be your opinion of it.

 RunicFIN wrote:
Or they might´ve made investments or competitors are causing less sales ( which always happens, regardless if a customer is happy with the other companys product. ) Their production might have not been in scale to the lessened demand and causing too much expenses. There are numerous other things that affect a financial report than just a wargames nerd who refuses to buy. People who don´t realizet this shouldn´t even discuss matters related to business.

The breakdown of the report clearly shows that less money is coming in when you look only at sales. It has nothing to do with investing money in other places, they are either selling less stock or selling stuff cheaper (which we know is not happening).

As for the underlined part, the people commenting on this (well, not me but a few users on Dakka as well as the guy writing the Future of Games Workshop articles) have some very serious credentials, like having worked as CEOs and CIOs.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
How is the effect of competitors not linked directly with the loss of sales?

With the SM dex, IG, Knights and 7th and they still sold 12% less stuff, that's a really bad sign.
Of course not all of them were dissatisfied with GW, but the fact that the competition gets their money instead shows that GW needs to change and figure out why they're losing sales.
(Cue dramatic music)
But they don't do market research to find out why they lose sales so they won't know how to fix it. They'll keep losing sales until they change for the better or go out of business. Those are the two options. It may take a long while to go out of business, but it will happen if they don't change.

 jonolikespie wrote:

 RunicFIN wrote:
Or they might´ve made investments or competitors are causing less sales ( which always happens, regardless if a customer is happy with the other companys product. ) Their production might have not been in scale to the lessened demand and causing too much expenses. There are numerous other things that affect a financial report than just a wargames nerd who refuses to buy. People who don´t realizet this shouldn´t even discuss matters related to business.

The breakdown of the report clearly shows that less money is coming in when you look only at sales. It has nothing to do with investing money in other places, they are either selling less stock or selling stuff cheaper (which we know is not happening).

As for the underlined part, the people commenting on this (well, not me but a few users on Dakka as well as the guy writing the Future of Games Workshop articles) have some very serious credentials, like having worked as CEOs and CIOs.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
How is the effect of competitors not linked directly with the loss of sales?

Oh but we're all haters and those guys don't know anything and these complaints have been going on for 10+ years and GW is still around so they MUST be doing something right, and PP/Mantic/etc's quality is garbage and those games aren't sci-fi grimdark large-scale with small-scale rules that feature Space Marines so they aren't a valid comparison to 40k.

PhantomViper wrote:
The report shows a 12% drop in sales. A drop in a financial year that not only included the release of SM, but of a new 40k edition as well. A drop in sales in an industry that is growing by double digits. Please explain to me oh wise one, how this can be interpreted in any other way than as the result of a drop in the number of overall customers or at least as the result of a drastic reduction in spending of existing customers.

I don´t know how to articulate this any clearer, and thus this will be my last attempt at it: I´m not saying what you describe.

What I´m trying to say is:

The loss of sales and/or customers isn´t just people who are angry at GW and are protesting. It is also people who got interested in other games while being content with GW´s games. It is also people who might be on a break from 40K for example. Being fed up/angry isn´t the only reason a person stops buying products at any given time. There are numerous other reasons and factors.

That is all I am trying to say. Should someone interpret it at something else after this, they can only blame themselves.

WayneTheGame wrote:


Oh but we're all haters and those guys don't know anything and these complaints have been going on for 10+ years and GW is still around so they MUST be doing something right, and PP/Mantic/etc's quality is garbage and those games aren't sci-fi grimdark large-scale with small-scale rules that feature Space Marines so they aren't a valid comparison to 40k.

Yeah and everyone who doesn´t agree with the hilariously fictional "GW is going under unless they do what I want" -trend must be white knights asmuch as you are haters, right. I like how this discussion, like the all the ones before, end up in this same age old setting. You can´t be neutral, you can´t be a realist, you´re either an apologist/white knight or a hater. Such a black and white way of looking at things.

People aren't being realists though. The financials state that GW is losing sales and, therefore, losing profit. They WILL go under unless they fix it (as would any business that consistently loses profit while cutting costs to the bone - eventually you won't have any costs left to cut and if you are still losing profit, you'll eventually go negative and operate at a loss), and all indication has been they don't know what's wrong because they act like it's 1984 not 2014 and really do think that people will buy GW products simply because they're GW products, and the rules are just for that small group that want to play a game and not collect figures.

In fact the closest thing to the realists are the people who get called "haters", because we actually use facts and evidence not say "40k is doing great in my area so everything is perfect" or "I'm having fun, what's the problem" and claim it's evidence.

A realist would say that they might be having fun with 40k, but they see the problems the game has and the reasons people have issues with GW. Instead it's usually a hard divide and the more rude and condescending people seem to be on the pro-GW side of things.

A realist might say there still being copies of Space Hulk in stores 3 and a half weeks after release is as clear a sign as any things are bad.

A realist might also say the biggest FLGS in Australia reporting GW having fallen to 10-15% of their revenue indicates that GW is almost irrelevant in the Australian market.

Ah well, I believe they are quite aware of what is wrong, and I believe they are taking action, but things move slowly in the corporate world.

But I feel there´s not much else to discuss, won´t be reading the thread after this as it´s just useless bickering that helps no one I´m afraid. I know the following though:

-GW isn´t going under in the foreseeable future, just not gonna happen. Might get reduced in size, but they wont go under. Keep believing it if you want, I´ll laugh at you in 10 years when they´re still up and running. At least you ( anyone, not directed at an individual ) can base your belief in an undefined timeline and cry out "I was right!" when they go under in like a 60 years or so.

-People that are fine with GW´s games and still play other games exist.

-People who don´t hate GW and like their games while simultaneously liking other manufacturers as a company + their games exist.

-You don´t necessarily have a positive or a negative standing regarding a company, you can also factually be neutral as with all things.

-GW isn´t evil, and me not seeing them as evil doesn´t make me an apologist. There are probably individuals who only care about money involved, but I am confindent that in the heart of GW there is a team of designers and professionals who love the universe and the games and use every ounce of their know-how to try and develop their product with passion, just like I imagine in Privateer Press´s studio for example.

The problem is that they priced people out and continue to do so, seemingly just because they can, while at the same time making it so you can easily screw yourself over if you like units that are bad because they can't be bothered to write a balanced game.

WayneTheGame wrote:
People aren't being realists though. The financials state that GW is losing sales and, therefore, losing profit. They WILL go under unless they fix it (as would any business that consistently loses profit while cutting costs to the bone - eventually you won't have any costs left to cut and if you are still losing profit, you'll eventually go negative and operate at a loss), and all indication has been they don't know what's wrong because they act like it's 1984 not 2014 and really do think that people will buy GW products simply because they're GW products, and the rules are just for that small group that want to play a game and not collect figures.

In fact the closest thing to the realists are the people who get called "haters", because we actually use facts and evidence not say "40k is doing great in my area so everything is perfect" or "I'm having fun, what's the problem" and claim it's evidence.

A realist would say that they might be having fun with 40k, but they see the problems the game has and the reasons people have issues with GW. Instead it's usually a hard divide and the more rude and condescending people seem to be on the pro-GW side of things.

This is what I was trying to say but with an emphasis on the fact that they do no market research so probably don't understand what the problem really is and thus won't know how to fix it.
If they don't fix it, (at this rate) they will go under eventually.
Like a plane in a dive, if they don't pull up, they will crash.

 RunicFIN wrote:


I don´t know how to articulate this any clearer, and thus this will be my last attempt at it: I´m not saying what you describe.

What I´m trying to say is:

The loss of sales and/or customers isn´t just people who are angry at GW and are protesting. It is also people who got interested in other games while being content with GW´s games. It is also people who might be on a break from 40K for example. Being fed up/angry isn´t the only reason a person stops buying products at any given time. There are numerous other reasons and factors.

That is all I am trying to say. Should someone interpret it at something else after this, they can only blame themselves.

Did you read the thread title before you started posting? Right there in the thread title it says: #i'mPARTofthereason The thread started as an offshoot of the GW Life Cycle thread because people who are spending less on GW and playing fewer GW games or who have stopped doing any of that at all are PART of the reason GW is seeing a decline in revenue and profits. Nobody stated that dissatisfied gamers spending less on GW products was the sole reason for their financial decline. You just posted that you AGREE with that sentiment. Why did you spend time and energy provoking arguments with people that you're in agreement with? That's just trolling.

#i'mpart of the reason because when I started in this hobby 40K was just starting 2nd Edition but as I got older I had less time for the hobby and stopped buying the new rulebooks and codices or playing games and now I can't justify the cost of buying all the books I'd need to play 7th Ed and since I won't be playing the game buying new models for it is hard to justify. It also frustrates me when GW stops supporting games with good rulesets like LOTR and Necromunda but refuses to improve the rules for their core games. Now I purchase minis from other companies when I want something new to paint as I slowly work through painting all the GW stuff I've acquired over the past decades.

 RunicFIN wrote:
Ah well, I believe they are quite aware of what is wrong, and I believe they are taking action, but things move slowly in the corporate world.

But I feel there´s not much else to discuss, won´t be reading the thread after this as it´s just useless bickering that helps no one I´m afraid. I know the following though:

-GW isn´t going under in the foreseeable future, just not gonna happen. Might get reduced in size, but they wont go under. Keep believing it if you want, I´ll laugh at you in 10 years when they´re still up and running. At least you ( anyone, not directed at an individual ) can base your belief in an undefined timeline and cry out "I was right!" when they go under in like a 60 years or so.

-People that are fine with GW´s games and still play other games exist.

-People who don´t hate GW and like their games while simultaneously liking other manufacturers as a company + their games exist.

-You don´t necessarily have a positive or a negative standing regarding a company, you can also factually be neutral as with all things.

-GW isn´t evil, and me not seeing them as evil doesn´t make me an apologist. There are probably individuals who only care about money involved, but I am confindent that in the heart of GW there is a team of designers and professionals who love the universe and the games and use every ounce of their know-how to try and develop their product with passion, just like I imagine in Privateer Press´s studio for example.

They likely (again, likely: not for sure) don't know what the problem is, because they FLAT OUT admitted that they don't do market research. It's right in Kirby's pre-ramble (not a mistype), and he's proud of the fact. Ignoring that is sticking your head in the sand. I'm sure I speak for almost everyone in this thread when I say that if GW got back in gear, to the way it used to be, quit over bloating, quit the crap prices, did market research, and acted like a game company, I'd come back. But as it stands now, they're crap. And you'll either realize it or you won't. If you really hate that many of us have gotten upset at being treated like crap by a company we used to love, there are other forums out there that are GW friendly still. We're all sad that we aren't GW fans anymore. But they caused it-we just woke up to it.

People with adjacent points of views trolling eachother. Brilliant. How about taking the off topic bits to PM’s for a page.

Thank you Spaceelf, Zedmeister, and Prestor Jon for attempting to get us back on track with your responses to the OP. You have not been ignored.

nanook wrote:
Found this quote in the GW life cycle thread and thought it was a great idea!

Who else is part of the reason GW took a dive in sales and profit this year?

I'm part of the reason because I used to spend £50-100 a month on GW stuff - books, paint, models etc...

BUT with the move to 7th edition I have really lost interest in GW. Prices are too high, new products seem a bit childish (murdefang) and I just feel they couldn't care less about me as a veteran gamer at all. Oh, they want my money but there seems no love for the game.

Anyone else feel this way?

Someone better at twitter campaigns take up the mantle and send this message to GW.

I normally would not hashtag unless drunk, but in attempt to revive the OP and stop the madness.

#Impartofthereason
Not GW’s fault but I don’t like heroic scale. Big heads, big hands, not for me so much anymore. Funny thing was I never even noticed it till about 2008 (been playing since 1990) when my girlfriend at the time told me she didn’t like my minis because their heads and hands were disproportionately big. A couple years later I inquired about it and learned about heroic scale. I love the net. Once again not GW’s fault.

I also don’t buy %100 Citadel paints anymore. They’re more like 10% of my line up, even though they’re the only choice at either of my FLGS’s. I use my airbrush more and more for projects. The pigment particles in Citadel paints are just way too big and I get clogs all the time. I will however always be a fan of Tin Bitz.