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 warboss wrote:

 Albertorius wrote:

Tanks are still the kings of the battlefield, and can kill anything on open ground. Terra Nova's weather makes air power not really all that powerful, so that's even more so than here.

The weather is SUPPOSED to make air power not really all that powerful but now that they're introducing new and expensive resin models for the airpower in blitz scale for the first time that may change (see the Gear$trider We Need to $ell These Model$ Retcon Effect). I've never tried out airpower in the alpha/beta rules so I'd have to depend on others to tell me if it actually still is the case. I ended up using DZC fighter bombers for my airstrike counters for my blitz armies.

The Dragonfly and Varis hopper are more light hovertanks than aircraft. They are treated like normal vehicles except that they can move over any terrain regardless of the height of them. Otherwise they follow all the normal rules.

Cheers!
Dave

True frozenwastes. I don't think they would charge the same in plastic as they would for metal however, since some of the cost of the miniatures involves the increased weight the metal has over plastics.

BrandonKF wrote:
True frozenwastes. I don't think they would charge the same in plastic as they would for metal however, since some of the cost of the miniatures involves the increased weight the metal has over plastics.

Here's hoping. It does make sense that they'd increase the cost of heavier miniatures as they both cost more in metal and cost more to ship.

I just realized we're looking at a full year for the proposed release date for this KS. So while it's cool to think about DP9 getting plastic gears out at a good retail price, we are talking about a year from now.

It's cool to get reminded of Heavy Gear, but I think I'm going to sit the KS out and use my funds for more immediate purchases and when the fulfillment happens, see how the kits actually turn out as people receive them.

 frozenwastes wrote:
I just realized we're looking at a full year for the proposed release date for this KS. So while it's cool to think about DP9 getting plastic gears out at a good retail price, we are talking about a year from now.

Originally the KS was hoped/intended to be fulfilled around the time of Gencon '15.
But that was for the very first printed rulebook-oriented preview poll, and only somewhat the same time frame for the second or third idea that had more miniature-oriented plans, with elements of the later ideas then combined into the last preview before the Pod decided to go live with it.

_
_

 frozenwastes wrote:

BrandonKF wrote:
True frozenwastes. I don't think they would charge the same in plastic as they would for metal however, since some of the cost of the miniatures involves the increased weight the metal has over plastics.

Here's hoping. It does make sense that they'd increase the cost of heavier miniatures as they both cost more in metal and cost more to ship.

I just realized we're looking at a full year for the proposed release date for this KS. So while it's cool to think about DP9 getting plastic gears out at a good retail price, we are talking about a year from now.

It's cool to get reminded of Heavy Gear, but I think I'm going to sit the KS out and use my funds for more immediate purchases and when the fulfillment happens, see how the kits actually turn out as people receive them.

engineering and tooling the molds for plastic injection is neither cheap nor fast, especially with how many are appearing in the KS. I'd be absolutely astonished if it doesn't take far longer than the 1 year quoted. Hell, look at Robotech KS, took them 2 years just to get the initial plastics out, no second wave in sight. Relic Knights was delayed just as long, and it wasn't even HIPS, just restic. Mantic has been more or less spot-on with their projections, but often at the cost of getting it done right (just look up the Men at Arms fiasco). No matter what DP9 is saying right now this is going to be a very delayed project, and I don't think anybody here who has been following kickstarters believes there won't be significant delays on this one. Better accept it now or you're gonna be REAL angry in a year. If that makes you squeamish than you might want to just take your money elsewhere.

 Kalamadea wrote:
engineering and tooling the molds for plastic injection is neither cheap nor fast, especially with how many are appearing in the KS. I'd be absolutely astonished if it doesn't take far longer than the 1 year quoted. Hell, look at Robotech KS, took them 2 years just to get the initial plastics out, no second wave in sight. Relic Knights was delayed just as long, and it wasn't even HIPS, just restic. Mantic has been more or less spot-on with their projections, but often at the cost of getting it done right (just look up the Men at Arms fiasco). No matter what DP9 is saying right now this is going to be a very delayed project, and I don't think anybody here who has been following kickstarters believes there won't be significant delays on this one. Better accept it now or you're gonna be REAL angry in a year. If that makes you squeamish than you might want to just take your money elsewhere.

While I would not in the slightest be surprised at delays, that it's an American company that they're dealing with should mitigate at least some of the issues that lead to significant delays in other projects. Shipping of prototypes should cut days, if not weeks off each iteration. Factory inspections would be a day trip, and phone calls can be handled during business hours. And you'ld hope that the communication issues that plagued RRT (apparently PB and the manufacturer sat on their thumbs for two weeks, waiting for a response from the other, seemingly due a lack of clarity in the last sent email) and just the general issue of translation won't be apparent in this project.

Will that fix every problem? Probably not. But it does remove several of the potential road blocks that other companies have had, by dealing offshore.

 Smilodon_UP wrote:
Originally the KS was hoped/intended to be fulfilled around the time of Gencon '15.
But that was for the very first printed rulebook-oriented preview poll, and only somewhat the same time frame for the second or third idea that had more miniature-oriented plans, with elements of the later ideas then combined into the last preview before the Pod decided to go live with it.

I noticed on the DTRPG page for the free beta rules that it mentions the Kickstarter as if it's about funding the printing of the rulebook. So it does look like this project when through some revisions before launch.

I can't get excited about the Blitz line of game development. I'm not interested in fast play rules meant to jam more and more miniatures onto the table. So I'm glad this KS is more than a printing of a rulebook I don't care about. It would be nice if Kalamadea ends up being wrong and that this new DP9 team manages succeed where others have failed and actually make their deadlines, but I'm not willing to put my money on it.

Time to chime in.


I always loved Heavy Gear, I played the two PC games, I own the videos and have a ton of old RPG books and most of their miniature rules.
I was amazed to see some of the bad comments and personal experiences mentioned above or on other threats, for me dealing with DP9 was always satisfying.
Both as a customer or licenser for my Victory Decision books.
(see: http://www.wargamevault.com/product/109526)

And all that despite the fact that I rarely played the actual game since the interest for the HG rules is very limited at my hometown…

I have to say that I like the direction the KS takes, already overfunded and the cool pledges fall by the minute.
Even for an old fart fan like me this KS holds some real value.

I already have for example most of the Northern and Southern minis, but the CEF and Caprice minis adds value to me.

I am especially looking forward to the Caprice mounts. 1st, I do not already have them, 2nd these mounts can serve double duty as SWTOR Droids etc!

And announcements like this makes me really happy, brings back some nice nostalgia.
“Plus for all our old school fans, our original artist, Ghislain Barbe, is back and will be doing the cover for the book.“

 RedSarge wrote:
I think this Kickstarter should add some TERRAIN, eh?
Being plastic or even resin, size could be only a minor factor, think a huge colony dome? Or maybe some Badlands outposts. Extraneous to the current resin terrain... as in more terrain please!

I can only support this! DP9 already have some VERY nice terrain. I would love to see this in plastic or even some additional pieces...

Infantry would be cool too, but IMO the existing metal infantry is good and affordable enough…


Want to see more? -> http://www.adpublishing.de/html/dp9_stuff.html

Brandon, in honor of your recent train of thought elsewhere on the interwebs, I'll repost my old joke pic that borrows from Yahtzee and a PC gaming meme.

.... OK, it's a good ha-ha meme, but please tell me I didn't come across like that....

I was trying to keep things concise for new potential players.

http://heavygearthunder.blogspot.com/2014/10/oh-look-new-tau-one-pledgers-mantra.html

Hey AAN, Freaking awesome mini pics there. Very old school.

Yes, our original idea was to do a kickstarter to fund a new super sized core rulebook but that didn't really get any hearts racing.

So we asked our customers what to do and the poll came back to do a book but do some miniatures too. So we thought, hmmm, is there more to this miniatures idea? And lo and behold the response to doing plastic miniatures seemed key to doing a successful kickstarter. We played with a couple of ideas, with some very ambitious early plans and finally settled something more manageable on the concept that North vs South would appeal as a base set that we could add the Earth Forces in as the counter force if we expanded.

That plus the fact that we already had a number of the 3D images for North vs South helped settle the planning.

I have a new found sense of respect for people who do kickstarters. It's a ton of work!

Cheers!
Dave

Is base size/shape a big thing in Heavy Gear?

I much prefer round bases to those odd hex bases that seem to be on these newer models?

Round bases even work with the older rules as long as you have a hex or something like it handy for measuring (we use Warmachine scatter templates). Round bases are pretty much 100% normal in Blitz.

@Alpharius and frozenwastes, the new Beta rules do not use the old Tactical rules of hex facings, so any base is appropriate. They also have really sweet scenic bases for the universe here:

http://store.dp9.com/index.php?route=product/category&path=69_96

And the new Beta rules use silhouettes for each vehicle type so there is less discussion of how much you see or don't see.

This looks nice but seems a little expensive for what we get. I must think some more on this.

@Laemos,

From the Frequently Asked Questions of the Kickstarter:

Are the prices we see here going to be the retail cost of the models when they are released?
No. We expect to have to adjust the cost upwards from 10 to 50%. The individual Add-on rewards cost is being kept low during the Kickstarter as a thanks to our backers.

-
Will my rewards be packaged for retail?
These rewards will be for the models and components selected only. Final packaging and casting for retail will be completed only after the rewards due to our backers have been cast. This is to keep the total time to completion as short as possible

-
Any plans for an exclusive or limited edition plastic miniature for backers?
No plans for a limited edition plastic miniature just for Backers as making a mold for 1 model would cost a lot and we would not be able to use it afterwards. If we were to do something exclusive it would need to be in pewter.

-
How many additional weapon loadouts will you be providing with the models?
As many as we can, we expect each model to have its standard weapons plus at least 2 extra weapon options. Weapons will always be available as parts on the online store. Here is link for those interested:
https://store.dp9.com


To summarize, this is the cheapest these sculpts will be. The Kickstarter is intended specifically to get the new machinery and tools and company set on making these models into plastic.

Retail will be more costly.

If you are looking for immediate purchases, the DP9 store is holding a special sale for the Kickstarter.

There is also Atomic Empire, although some of their products are reading as temporarily out of stock.

I hope that information helps.

BrandonKF wrote:

And the new Beta rules use silhouettes for each vehicle type so there is less discussion of how much you see or don't see.

While my favorite preference is defined area terrain for LOS purposes, if you are going to go true line of sight, silhouettes are the way to go. I always liked that in Warmachine, which has the heights printed on the side of the spray template:

@frozenwastes, Being introduced to Infinity last year, I always found the 'if I see you, you see me' mechanic very intuitive and also helpful, if perhaps sometimes nonsensical that a machine could see through a hole where its foot was located when somebody saw it.

The silhouette profile, however, does aid in Line of Sight and also helps to resolve any major issues that might come up in a game where players disagree on how much of a model is revealed.

There are some vehicle traits in the Beta rules that can modify this, such as 'Low Profile', but those traits are specific to their individual vehicles.

BrandonKF wrote:
@frozenwastes, Being introduced to Infinity last year, I always found the 'if I see you, you see me' mechanic very intuitive and also helpful, if perhaps sometimes nonsensical that a machine could see through a hole where its foot was located when somebody saw it.

Infinity is going with the silhouette approach with the new 3rd edition that's about to come out. True line of sight from any point of the silhouette of the firer to any point on the target's silhouette. I think it'll work great both there and in Heavy Gear (if it ends up being included), just like it does in Warmachine.

Is that a hint?

You really ought to join us in the Beta development forums. It's a ghost town right now while everyone sits back and eats popcorn watching the ticker and commenting on the newest updates, but a fresh pair of eyes is welcome.

The bold part is me emphasizing the topic of this thread, Heavy Gear.

It's more that I've been playing with base volume rather than miniature-part-sees-miniature-part for a while. Like since Warmachine MK2 came out in 2009. I know the approach works and was happy to see it coming to Infinity.

My view of play testing is that I shouldn't comment outside of the context of actual play. And I certainly don't want to impact the direction of the game considering that it would be unfair for DP9 to listen to my ideas, which would be based on reading a document and not playing the game it describes.

I just threw the beta rules on my ereader and if reading them inspires me to actually break out some models (or get my friend who run 2nd edition every 6 months or so to try it out too) then after I play I'll have some feedback. Right now my gears serve as light mechs in other mech and 6mm sci-fi rules, but maybe they can be used for HG again more regularly than twice a year or so.

I'm willing to comment positively on using base volume/silhouette because I have positive experience with it in other games and expect people will be happy with it here. It could be though that there's something in the larger context of play that makes that unfounded though. Don't know as I haven't played the beta rules (yet?).

---

Thank you for that explanation frozenwastes.

Had a game with a good fellow on the Game Summit Forums known as Packadurm. We did NuCoal (me) vs. Northern (him) at 100tv with two combat groups a side, mainly Gear-based forces as we were relearning the new edition of the rules.

What did I learn?

- Rockets are way better in the new ruleset. Like just so much better. The always-on AE and the Blast:1D6 trait are mucho caliente.
- We're in Trouble is so much more effective and useful. So awesome to see a Gear just spend an action shrug off a few damage points.
- I think lasers kinda ended up with a bit of a nerf.
- Rear arc and from-above shots don't get bonuses anymore? What? (Was later informed by folks on the Heavy Gear Pictures group on FB that an update to the PDF version added these back in. We were using the printed book version.)
- Fusiliers got an upgrade from MAC to HAC.
- Chevaliers (and maybe FS Gears in general) are DAMN tough. I mean, they'll take even more punishment than a Fusilier. Which is a hovertank. A TANK. Six armour points and two structure? Yes please.

I put my photos from the game in my DakkaDakka gallery for y'all.

http://www.dakkadakka.com/gallery/user/90820-Steel%20Paladin.html

That bit about Chevaliers being tougher than tanks... worries me, TBH. Worries me a lot. Gears are NOT supposed to be as tough as tanks, nevermind tougher. Not even things like Kodiaks.

Believe me, he is talking hover tank, which are not very real tank, when you speak of things like Aller or Visigoth, those are tanks that takes forever to kill I have enough games under my belt to know what I'm talking about!

riker2800 wrote:
Believe me, he is talking hover tank, which are not very real tank, when you speak of things like Aller or Visigoth, those are tanks that takes forever to kill I have enough games under my belt to know what I'm talking about!

Er... I know what a hovertank is, thank you very much. And it changes nothing, even less in the particular case of a Fusilier, which was the hardest LHT in the whole game at 26 armor + Sturdy box and +0 Defense at Combat Speed. Had it been designed in 2nd edition, it would also have had the customary tank +5 front reinforced armor and the +5 HEAT resistant armor.

A Gear should NEVER, EVER, be as tough as that. NEVER.

Maybe they are going to be now though?

They have progressed the timeline quite a bit haven't they? Could these larger gears finally be getting developed to the point of being sufficiently resilient?

I will say though, that part of the appeal of the gears is that they are their own class of combat unit and not tank substitutes. It goes against quite a bit of established HG lore to redefine gears into possessing the characteristics of other combat units.

With Heavy Gear starting as an RPG, there's a lot of previous customers out there who really love the world so I can see where the "A Gear should NEVER, EVER, be as tough as that. NEVER." approach comes from.

 Alpharius wrote:
Maybe they are going to be now though?

In which case, it's no longer Heavy Gear. It just wear Heavy Gear's skin.

Well, it will be Heavy Gear if that's what DP9 chooses to do with it!

Everything's still in beta though, right?

Not much cause for concern yet...maybe?