Switch Theme:

Balance of the newest codices  [RSS] Share on facebook Share on Twitter Submit to Reddit
»
Author Message
Advert


Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
  • No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
  • Times and dates in your local timezone.
  • Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
  • Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
  • Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now.




Made in be
Longtime Dakkanaut




Akiasura wrote:

Personally, when I consider a codex a bottom tier, I take it to mean that most of the entries are terrible.
Chaos has very few units that are worth taking. I'd be curious to see how many guys weren't mono nurgle heldrake demon allies who played chaos.
Most armies, through allies, can just cherry pick pretty good units from various armies until they come up with a pretty broken combo and just win, so no codex is truly triforce tier (for you smash players)


Well, there's the thing of the point level and CAD limitation.

For example, when I write an SMC list, my imagination runs out around 800 points.

Because at 800 points, you have 3x 5 Spawn, 3x Maulerfiend, and you have to start taking bad units that don't really synergize with your army.

Chaos Daemons is Screamer Star without allies, and very very good at that.


Without limitations, I guess you could make some really brutal all fast assault SMC lists - for example.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/12/16 13:24:22


 
   
Made in gb
Killer Klaivex




The dark behind the eyes.

Honestly, I think the power level of the new books is still awful.

I don't think any of the new units have broken the game though... so I guess that's a plus. Though, in that case, we're not exactly setting the bar high.

Anyway, my main problems are twofold:

1) There's been a massive loss of flavour. Not only were a ton of special characters lost, but a lot of interesting and flavourful rules were changed to bland, boring core rules. And, in many cases, this just feels unnecessary. It can't have been for balance, because many such changes just made bad units/items worse. And, if it was to reduce complexity... why? Surely individual army books is the best place for complexity? I mean, if I wanted to reduce complexity, I'd start with the core rules - with Fear, Challenges, current wound-allocation and mysterious objectives being first for the chop.

2) This loss of flavour doesn't appear to have solved much - so it's not even like there was much of a trade-off. The internal balance of the new books is just abysmal - with many units being outright better than their competition (GK Terminators compared to Strike Squads, DE Kabalite Warriors compared to Wyches, DE Reavers or Beasts compared to Hellions, Dreadknights compared to anything else in the GK HS slot, etc.). Same with items - so many are just completely worthless. Basically, it just creates a lot of false-choice.

Also, a slightly more minor point, but the distribution of AP2 seems really wonky and unbalanced to me. Why is it that Archons are no longer allowed any AP2 whatsoever? Was S3 AP2 really overpowered in the last book? Is it because they don't want AP2 attacks to be at initiative? Because, if so, why is the Succubus allowed an AP2 weapon that strikes at initiative? Same with SWs and BAs, which also get such weapons. This is the sort of thing that really irritates me.

Anyway, long story short, I'm far from happy with the balance of the new books.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/12/16 14:09:20


 blood reaper wrote:
I will respect human rights and trans people but I will never under any circumstances use the phrase 'folks' or 'ya'll'. I would rather be killed by firing squad.



 the_scotsman wrote:
Yeah, when i read the small novel that is the Death Guard unit options and think about resolving the attacks from a melee-oriented min size death guard squad, the thing that springs to mind is "Accessible!"

 Argive wrote:
GW seems to have a crystal ball and just pulls hairbrained ideas out of their backside for the most part.


 Andilus Greatsword wrote:

"Prepare to open fire at that towering Wraithknight!"
"ARE YOU DAFT MAN!?! YOU MIGHT HIT THE MEN WHO COME UP TO ITS ANKLES!!!"


Akiasura wrote:
I hate to sound like a serial killer, but I'll be reaching for my friend occam's razor yet again.


 insaniak wrote:

You're not. If you're worried about your opponent using 'fake' rules, you're having fun the wrong way. This hobby isn't about rules. It's about buying Citadel miniatures.

Please report to your nearest GW store for attitude readjustment. Take your wallet.
 
   
Made in be
Longtime Dakkanaut




 vipoid wrote:

1) There's been a massive loss of flavour. Not only were a ton of special characters lost, but a lot of interesting and flavourful rules were changed to bland, boring core rules. And, in many cases, this just feels unnecessary. It can't have been for balance, because many such changes just made bad units/items worse. And, if it was to reduce complexity... why? Surely individual army books is the best place for complexity? I mean, if I wanted to reduce complexity, I'd start with the core rules - with Fear, Challenges, current wound-allocation and mysterious objectives being first for the chop.


It's necessary.

It's the loss of flavor that will prevent future slowed combos from being created, as well as offering a full game refresh when a new BRB comes out, instead of patching only the few things that were not exceptions.

When the new Necron dex is redone like that, it will age properly through the next editions because it will not be full of unique wording that conflicts with the BRB.

The value will only reveal itself over time though, right now....


And the reason the more specific stuff has been moved to digital is precisely so that it can be updated more often, making balance a lot easier to achieve.
   
Made in gb
Killer Klaivex




The dark behind the eyes.

morgoth wrote:
It's necessary. No it isn't. And certainly not to this level.

It's the loss of flavor that will prevent future slowed combos from being created, as well as offering a full game refresh when a new BRB comes out, instead of patching only the few things that were not exceptions. That doesn't make any sense.

When the new Necron dex is redone like that, it will age properly through the next editions because it will not be full of unique wording that conflicts with the BRB. Do you have any proof that blander codices will age better than less-bland ones?

The value will only reveal itself over time though, right now.... Right now it is just idle speculation with sod-all evidence.


And the reason the more specific stuff has been moved to digital is precisely so that it can be updated more often, making balance a lot easier to achieve. Eh?

 blood reaper wrote:
I will respect human rights and trans people but I will never under any circumstances use the phrase 'folks' or 'ya'll'. I would rather be killed by firing squad.



 the_scotsman wrote:
Yeah, when i read the small novel that is the Death Guard unit options and think about resolving the attacks from a melee-oriented min size death guard squad, the thing that springs to mind is "Accessible!"

 Argive wrote:
GW seems to have a crystal ball and just pulls hairbrained ideas out of their backside for the most part.


 Andilus Greatsword wrote:

"Prepare to open fire at that towering Wraithknight!"
"ARE YOU DAFT MAN!?! YOU MIGHT HIT THE MEN WHO COME UP TO ITS ANKLES!!!"


Akiasura wrote:
I hate to sound like a serial killer, but I'll be reaching for my friend occam's razor yet again.


 insaniak wrote:

You're not. If you're worried about your opponent using 'fake' rules, you're having fun the wrong way. This hobby isn't about rules. It's about buying Citadel miniatures.

Please report to your nearest GW store for attitude readjustment. Take your wallet.
 
   
Made in gb
Decrepit Dakkanaut




Vipod - in ansdwer to Archons vs Succy, it gives them each a distinct role. I thought this was obvious?

If you want a more tanky, more shooty and unlocks a free slot court - Archon. Still decent combat but cant take on everything. ure melee? well that would be the pure melee HQ then.
   
Made in gb
Killer Klaivex




The dark behind the eyes.

nosferatu1001 wrote:
Vipod - in ansdwer to Archons vs Succy, it gives them each a distinct role. I thought this was obvious?


So, why aren't SM HQs subjected to this?

Why aren't some of them disallowed AP2 weapons to give them a distinct role?

 blood reaper wrote:
I will respect human rights and trans people but I will never under any circumstances use the phrase 'folks' or 'ya'll'. I would rather be killed by firing squad.



 the_scotsman wrote:
Yeah, when i read the small novel that is the Death Guard unit options and think about resolving the attacks from a melee-oriented min size death guard squad, the thing that springs to mind is "Accessible!"

 Argive wrote:
GW seems to have a crystal ball and just pulls hairbrained ideas out of their backside for the most part.


 Andilus Greatsword wrote:

"Prepare to open fire at that towering Wraithknight!"
"ARE YOU DAFT MAN!?! YOU MIGHT HIT THE MEN WHO COME UP TO ITS ANKLES!!!"


Akiasura wrote:
I hate to sound like a serial killer, but I'll be reaching for my friend occam's razor yet again.


 insaniak wrote:

You're not. If you're worried about your opponent using 'fake' rules, you're having fun the wrong way. This hobby isn't about rules. It's about buying Citadel miniatures.

Please report to your nearest GW store for attitude readjustment. Take your wallet.
 
   
Made in be
Longtime Dakkanaut




[MOD EDIT - RULE #1 - Alpharius]

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/12/17 01:01:05


 
   
Made in gb
Stubborn Dark Angels Veteran Sergeant






I think most of the new codices have been pretty balanced.....but then again they should be, as most of them haven't changed all that much. Most of them lost as much, if not more, as they gained.
Slight point reductions on some things have brought the armies up to match the codex creep, and slight point increases have been used to lower the power level of some of the more competitive units.

I am surprised to see so many people still complaining about tau. The rule and game changes in between 6th and 7th really took them down. I don't find them to be particularly overpowering. They could make 'ignores cover' a bit harder to attain, but besides that they are fine. Personally I find the new SM codex to be more powerful.

At the moment I would say in terms of competitiveness the top codices would be something like:

1. Eldar
2. SM / Summoning Daemons / Necrons
3. SM / Summoning Daemons / Necrons
4. SM / Summoning Daemons / Necrons
5. Tau
6. Everything else including all the new codices. (which are all quite similar power levels imo).

The biggest change that is needed is the obvious Eldar nerf, as they really are heads and shoulders above the competition at the moment.

The new necron codex would also be welcome, as it will hopefully clear up and balance some of their rules for 7th ed.
   
Made in us
Veteran Knight Baron in a Crusader





It seems like GWs only solution to balance is to take away things you can choose and pay points for and replace them with a random D6 table. Then you have a 1/6 chance of getting a broken ability. See? Balance!
   
Made in gb
Killer Klaivex




The dark behind the eyes.

Here's a question for everyone: which codex do you think is the most balanced at the moment - both internally and externally?

 blood reaper wrote:
I will respect human rights and trans people but I will never under any circumstances use the phrase 'folks' or 'ya'll'. I would rather be killed by firing squad.



 the_scotsman wrote:
Yeah, when i read the small novel that is the Death Guard unit options and think about resolving the attacks from a melee-oriented min size death guard squad, the thing that springs to mind is "Accessible!"

 Argive wrote:
GW seems to have a crystal ball and just pulls hairbrained ideas out of their backside for the most part.


 Andilus Greatsword wrote:

"Prepare to open fire at that towering Wraithknight!"
"ARE YOU DAFT MAN!?! YOU MIGHT HIT THE MEN WHO COME UP TO ITS ANKLES!!!"


Akiasura wrote:
I hate to sound like a serial killer, but I'll be reaching for my friend occam's razor yet again.


 insaniak wrote:

You're not. If you're worried about your opponent using 'fake' rules, you're having fun the wrong way. This hobby isn't about rules. It's about buying Citadel miniatures.

Please report to your nearest GW store for attitude readjustment. Take your wallet.
 
   
Made in us
Veteran Knight Baron in a Crusader





Internal balance is probably space marines. You can run that codex so many different ways and none of them are head and shoulders above the rest. They have lots of viable units and list styles. If you play 10 people who use SM, you will face 10 different lists. I would probably say they have the best external balance as well. They can compete with eldar/IK but aren't super OP against some of the less powerful books.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Which is ironic because it's a 6th edition book and this thread is about how well balanced the 7th books are. Is that why I've played 8 different space wolves armies in 7th and they were all TWC, drop pod melta or a combination of the 2?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/12/16 16:04:37


 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




 vipoid wrote:
Here's a question for everyone: which codex do you think is the most balanced at the moment - both internally and externally?

Marines and wolves.
Lots of choices and both are mid to high tier.

Bad would be Nids and BA without formations, DA, DE.
   
Made in fi
Battlewagon Driver with Charged Engine






Finland

I´ll take the new "blander" and more balanced codices over the old broken "flavourful" ones any day. Each army has a ton of flavor, background, modeling and list building options going for them and you can still theme your army in countless ways.

My Iron Warriors don´t feel more bland because they don´t use Basilisks or have 9 Obliterators.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/12/16 18:49:30


   
Made in us
Omnipotent Necron Overlord






Have to disagree about DA...Ravenwing is def competitive. I also think banner of devastation can be a pretty strong build as well.

If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced.
- Fox Mulder 
   
Made in gb
Killer Klaivex




The dark behind the eyes.

 RunicFIN wrote:
My Iron Warriors don´t feel more bland because they don´t use Basilisks or have 9 Obliterators.


Eh?

 blood reaper wrote:
I will respect human rights and trans people but I will never under any circumstances use the phrase 'folks' or 'ya'll'. I would rather be killed by firing squad.



 the_scotsman wrote:
Yeah, when i read the small novel that is the Death Guard unit options and think about resolving the attacks from a melee-oriented min size death guard squad, the thing that springs to mind is "Accessible!"

 Argive wrote:
GW seems to have a crystal ball and just pulls hairbrained ideas out of their backside for the most part.


 Andilus Greatsword wrote:

"Prepare to open fire at that towering Wraithknight!"
"ARE YOU DAFT MAN!?! YOU MIGHT HIT THE MEN WHO COME UP TO ITS ANKLES!!!"


Akiasura wrote:
I hate to sound like a serial killer, but I'll be reaching for my friend occam's razor yet again.


 insaniak wrote:

You're not. If you're worried about your opponent using 'fake' rules, you're having fun the wrong way. This hobby isn't about rules. It's about buying Citadel miniatures.

Please report to your nearest GW store for attitude readjustment. Take your wallet.
 
   
Made in us
Douglas Bader








IW used to have the ability to take extra heavy support units, including Basilisks. Naturally people complained about this, and the option was removed. Which is funny in hindsight, because IG Basilisks in 7th edition are a terrible unit that nobody takes.

There is no such thing as a hobby without politics. "Leave politics at the door" is itself a political statement, an endorsement of the status quo and an attempt to silence dissenting voices. 
   
Made in gb
Killer Klaivex




The dark behind the eyes.

 Peregrine wrote:


IW used to have the ability to take extra heavy support units, including Basilisks. Naturally people complained about this, and the option was removed. Which is funny in hindsight, because IG Basilisks in 7th edition are a terrible unit that nobody takes.


Ah.

I was more confused because I hadn't seen anyone use 'the removal of Basilisks' or 'the ability to take 9 Obliterators' as examples of blandness.

Maybe I just missed them.

 blood reaper wrote:
I will respect human rights and trans people but I will never under any circumstances use the phrase 'folks' or 'ya'll'. I would rather be killed by firing squad.



 the_scotsman wrote:
Yeah, when i read the small novel that is the Death Guard unit options and think about resolving the attacks from a melee-oriented min size death guard squad, the thing that springs to mind is "Accessible!"

 Argive wrote:
GW seems to have a crystal ball and just pulls hairbrained ideas out of their backside for the most part.


 Andilus Greatsword wrote:

"Prepare to open fire at that towering Wraithknight!"
"ARE YOU DAFT MAN!?! YOU MIGHT HIT THE MEN WHO COME UP TO ITS ANKLES!!!"


Akiasura wrote:
I hate to sound like a serial killer, but I'll be reaching for my friend occam's razor yet again.


 insaniak wrote:

You're not. If you're worried about your opponent using 'fake' rules, you're having fun the wrong way. This hobby isn't about rules. It's about buying Citadel miniatures.

Please report to your nearest GW store for attitude readjustment. Take your wallet.
 
   
Made in ca
Fixture of Dakka






 RunicFIN wrote:
I´ll take the new "blander" and more balanced codices over the old broken "flavourful" ones any day. Each army has a ton of flavor, background, modeling and list building options going for them and you can still theme your army in countless ways.

My Iron Warriors don´t feel more bland because they don´t use Basilisks or have 9 Obliterators.


I have to agree. Flavorful is just code for gimmicky, because, for instance, if you make assault super awesome, of course all the armies of that faction will choose assault. In recent codices, it isn't that it's blander -- just more toned down. +1 I and Furious Charge is no joke, but it doesn't mean that every BA army has to revolve around it.
   
Made in gb
Killer Klaivex




The dark behind the eyes.

So, can an ability only be flavourful if it's also really strong?

 blood reaper wrote:
I will respect human rights and trans people but I will never under any circumstances use the phrase 'folks' or 'ya'll'. I would rather be killed by firing squad.



 the_scotsman wrote:
Yeah, when i read the small novel that is the Death Guard unit options and think about resolving the attacks from a melee-oriented min size death guard squad, the thing that springs to mind is "Accessible!"

 Argive wrote:
GW seems to have a crystal ball and just pulls hairbrained ideas out of their backside for the most part.


 Andilus Greatsword wrote:

"Prepare to open fire at that towering Wraithknight!"
"ARE YOU DAFT MAN!?! YOU MIGHT HIT THE MEN WHO COME UP TO ITS ANKLES!!!"


Akiasura wrote:
I hate to sound like a serial killer, but I'll be reaching for my friend occam's razor yet again.


 insaniak wrote:

You're not. If you're worried about your opponent using 'fake' rules, you're having fun the wrong way. This hobby isn't about rules. It's about buying Citadel miniatures.

Please report to your nearest GW store for attitude readjustment. Take your wallet.
 
   
Made in ca
Fixture of Dakka






 vipoid wrote:
So, can an ability only be flavourful if it's also really strong?


I hope that flavorful, for most people doesn't just mean gimmicky, but in the context of this thread it seems to be that way.

More generally, I would rather see "flavorful" replaced with "distinctive":

For example, Grey knights are "flavorful" because they have a distinctive look, they are low model count, psychically powerful, and each unit is greatly feared. They are, sadly, also kind of gimmicky, but that's a different issue.
   
Made in dk
Infiltrating Prowler






Akiasura wrote:

Marines
Lots of choices and both are mid to high tier.


People need to stop spreading this lie.

SM is bikes and cents, lead by <Mind your language, please --Janthkin> with librarian/tigurius and nothing else.
Tactical squads are gak. Terminators are gak. Scouts are gak. Assault marines are gak. Vanguard marines are gak. Sternguard's only redeemable quality is being a 1 hit wonder. Stalker/hunter are both low tier units that sits in an absurdly contested slot. Predator is meh. Vindicators can't be spammed without handicapping your list entirely. Land raiders are gak. Land speeder's existence is null and void by the mere presence of tau/IG/Phil Kelly wave serpent. Rhino's are free VP's. Razorbacks are badly over costed and frail. All variants of dreadnoughts are gak. Assault cents are laughable. Command squads, without bikes, are mediocre at best and horrible with CC load out. Scout bikers are a joke.

Sure, there are some decent choices, but realistically your core army is build up around bikes, cent star, storm talons and Thunderfire cannons. There are some variants, but most list that doesn't build around those units as their primary units just falls flat.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/12/17 06:34:48


 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




 Zewrath wrote:
Akiasura wrote:

Marines
Lots of choices and both are mid to high tier.


People need to stop spreading this lie.

SM is bikes and cents, lead by with librarian/tigurius and nothing else.
Tactical squads are gak. Terminators are gak. Scouts are gak. Assault marines are gak. Vanguard marines are gak. Sternguard's only redeemable quality is being a 1 hit wonder. Stalker/hunter are both low tier units that sits in an absurdly contested slot. Predator is meh. Vindicators can't be spammed without handicapping your list entirely. Land raiders are gak. Land speeder's existence is null and void by the mere presence of tau/IG/Phil Kelly wave serpent. Rhino's are free VP's. Razorbacks are badly over costed and frail. All variants of dreadnoughts are gak. Assault cents are laughable. Command squads, without bikes, are mediocre at best and horrible with CC load out. Scout bikers are a joke.

Sure, there are some decent choices, but realistically your core army is build up around bikes, cent star, storm talons and Thunderfire cannons. There are some variants, but most list that doesn't build around those units as their primary units just falls flat.


In a high tier setting, sure.
In a mid tier setting, most of those units are fine (except vanguard and tacticals, but troops tend to be bad).

Hence me saying mid to high tier.
Reading comprehension!

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/12/17 06:34:57


 
   
Made in fi
Battlewagon Driver with Charged Engine






Finland

 Zewrath wrote:

People need to stop spreading this lie.

SM is bikes and cents, lead by with librarian/tigurius and nothing else.
Tactical squads are gak. Terminators are gak. Scouts are gak. Assault marines are gak. Vanguard marines are gak. Sternguard's only redeemable quality is being a 1 hit wonder. Stalker/hunter are both low tier units that sits in an absurdly contested slot. Predator is meh. Vindicators can't be spammed without handicapping your list entirely. Land raiders are gak. Land speeder's existence is null and void by the mere presence of tau/IG/Phil Kelly wave serpent. Rhino's are free VP's. Razorbacks are badly over costed and frail. All variants of dreadnoughts are gak. Assault cents are laughable. Command squads, without bikes, are mediocre at best and horrible with CC load out. Scout bikers are a joke.


There´s no denying that Gravcents + Librarian, Smash****** and Gravbikes wouldn´t be the top dogs at the moment. However:

Land Speeder Storms having the passengers equipped with a Flamer and Shotguns and optionally a Powerfist are very cost effective units and useful in quite many scenarios. There´s not many matches when one or two haven´t brought back their points for me. And you really don´t care if they died, they always cause their points worth of trouble unless your opponent gets really, really lucky. This presuming one knows what to do with them.

Basic Tactical Marines become deadly in certain lists. Drop Podding 2-3 squads equipped with Meltas and Combimeltas can occasionally decimate the opponents heavy armour right at the start of the game. I usually have a Sternguard 5man Drop Pod tagging along, equipped with 5 Combi-Meltas. Usually it translates to most of the opponents tanks being destroyed by turn 2.

Predator Annihilator isn´t meh, it isn´t an Imperial Knight but it´s a solid antitank choice for it´s points. Vindicators don´t need to be spammed, even one of them does one role better than anything else in the Codex: A cheap firemagnet no opponent ignores and usually dedicates an absurd amount of attention to. It´s great for threat saturation lists, which is what I personally play next to alpha strike ones.

Same goes for an Ironclad Dreadnought in a Drop Pod with an antitank weapon and a CCW. One of the better distraction Carnifexes out there. With the rest I pretty much agree.

This message was edited 8 times. Last update was at 2014/12/17 07:01:06


   
Made in gb
Stubborn Dark Angels Veteran Sergeant






Internally I guess tau is pretty balanced.

Many HQs have different uses, including the special characters.

Troops only has 2 options, but both are viable. Kroot are cheaper, firewarriors can shoot better and have transports.

Elite slots are very often taken up by some riptides, but crisis suits are also very viable, and often picked to provide some fusion anti tank.

Fast attack is probably the most unbalanced part, as most of the time people will be taking path finders. All the other FA choices compare well against each other, but the need for markerlights means that they won't be seen too often.

Heavy Support Has both broadsides and sniper drone teams, who I find to be excellent.
Sky rays and hammerheads have their uses, but are not as good as the other two options.
   
Made in gb
Waaagh! Warbiker




Moray, Scotland

 RunicFIN wrote:
Niiru wrote:
 RunicFIN wrote:
... a player in my hometowns group ( who´s played Orks since 3. ed ) is pretty much raving about how he now has more good options than ever before. Do you mean "bland" in a sense that the really powerful units ( compared to the rest ) are missing ( like some folk do )?

No, it was more that they lost a lot of their flavour. The ramshackle vehicle rules... had a chance to veer off and blow up in peoples faces. Thats orky and fun, and hardly overpowered. Now its a small chance to turn a penetrate into a glance I think?... a bit pointless. And not orky. and dull.

They also dropped the fun characters. Like the guy who has the psychic power to turn an enemy character into a Squig. The enemy even gets to carry on using the squig model. Come on, thats pretty awesome. And no more overpowered than any other psychic attack.
Allright, I get what you mean. Specifically regarding the ramshackle vehicle rules though, a lot of players want less of randomness in the game and have wanted that for quite some time. Maybe GW listened, but at the expense of those who like the random stuff ( I personally found the ork random rules fun aswell. ) In the end you just can´t please everyone.
I have to 2nd RunicFIN's comments. Orks have lost their shininess (or however shiny you can get with orks). I don't really know anyone who wanted the Ork Codex to get less random. You knew you were going to get random stuff going into the army, if they didn't, then they should've done more research first.

Orks lost the real ramshackle and the proper red paint. The paint has been thinned down with gallons of water IMO. And if Orks didn't want random, why did GW decide to update the Mob Rule? It's now random and painful.

30 Orks by Foot.
17-20 in a Battlewagon.
12 in a Trukk.

I want offical rules for the Super-Ork that the Mad Dok is working on...  
   
Made in us
Fresh-Faced New User




The new codexes aren't needing any armies they are making them more powerful and easier to play. Also all of them are being made so that all the ridiculous and convoluted rules that makes the army / game hard to learn play and master into universal special rules or making them simpler and easier to learn and play with. Also even if a codex or unit does get nerfed it will stay at about the same power level no matter what do to points reductions.

Also the new necron codex is not going to get nerfed they are the weakest army in the game right now and every model in the codex is overpriced pointswise. Also they have the midst convoluted series of rules in the entire 40k universe. It's going to get cleaned up and polished and they are going to be an awesome and fun army to play and they are going to be incredibly competitive.

Tau is not broken at all. Unlike 6th edition objectives are important and tau suck at taking objectives. So if you can survive their gun line or about 5 turns you win (which isn't hard to do despite what everyone has probably ever said)

Eldar are still going to be incredibly powerful but that's just from a gakky mess of a codex rather than anyone who plays them. The main reason for this is because every unit if so specialized so everyone spams the general use models that are good at most things but these general units and models just so happen to be some of the most broken and frustrating things in the game to play against.
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





The thing that gets me about the Eldar codex is just how well written and internally balanced it is.

Most non a special a character choices are viable and have ways to really get them to do work. Most choices are between two approximately-equal options, where it really comes down to player preference which to pick, but the options work very differently. A couple stinkers, but most things in there are just about right.

Then we get to the Serpent Shield, WK, and Wind riders.

What a waste of such a greatly written codex.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




hawkhaven667 wrote:
The new codexes aren't needing any armies they are making them more powerful and easier to play. Also all of them are being made so that all the ridiculous and convoluted rules that makes the army / game hard to learn play and master into universal special rules or making them simpler and easier to learn and play with. Also even if a codex or unit does get nerfed it will stay at about the same power level no matter what do to points reductions.

Also the new necron codex is not going to get nerfed they are the weakest army in the game right now and every model in the codex is overpriced pointswise. Also they have the midst convoluted series of rules in the entire 40k universe. It's going to get cleaned up and polished and they are going to be an awesome and fun army to play and they are going to be incredibly competitive.

Tau is not broken at all. Unlike 6th edition objectives are important and tau suck at taking objectives. So if you can survive their gun line or about 5 turns you win (which isn't hard to do despite what everyone has probably ever said)

Eldar are still going to be incredibly powerful but that's just from a gakky mess of a codex rather than anyone who plays them. The main reason for this is because every unit if so specialized so everyone spams the general use models that are good at most things but these general units and models just so happen to be some of the most broken and frustrating things in the game to play against.


Bro, do you even 40k?
   
Made in us
Imperial Guard Landspeeder Pilot




On moon miranda.

hawkhaven667 wrote:


Also the new necron codex is not going to get nerfed they are the weakest army in the game right now
Wat?

They're certainly near the top, how on earth are they weak? The only codex I can think of that's clearly above Necrons is Eldar. Necrons are extremely powerful right now.

IRON WITHIN, IRON WITHOUT.

New Heavy Gear Log! Also...Grey Knights!
The correct pronunciation is Imperial Guard and Stormtroopers, "Astra Militarum" and "Tempestus Scions" are something you'll find at Hogwarts.  
   
Made in gb
Killer Klaivex




The dark behind the eyes.

Well, Necrons are in the unfortunate situation of appwaring powerful, because of a handful of units, whilst the rest of the book is in dire need of a boost.

However, if you only take that handful of units, it's a very strong codex indeed.

 blood reaper wrote:
I will respect human rights and trans people but I will never under any circumstances use the phrase 'folks' or 'ya'll'. I would rather be killed by firing squad.



 the_scotsman wrote:
Yeah, when i read the small novel that is the Death Guard unit options and think about resolving the attacks from a melee-oriented min size death guard squad, the thing that springs to mind is "Accessible!"

 Argive wrote:
GW seems to have a crystal ball and just pulls hairbrained ideas out of their backside for the most part.


 Andilus Greatsword wrote:

"Prepare to open fire at that towering Wraithknight!"
"ARE YOU DAFT MAN!?! YOU MIGHT HIT THE MEN WHO COME UP TO ITS ANKLES!!!"


Akiasura wrote:
I hate to sound like a serial killer, but I'll be reaching for my friend occam's razor yet again.


 insaniak wrote:

You're not. If you're worried about your opponent using 'fake' rules, you're having fun the wrong way. This hobby isn't about rules. It's about buying Citadel miniatures.

Please report to your nearest GW store for attitude readjustment. Take your wallet.
 
   
 
Forum Index » 40K General Discussion
Go to: