W40k : rumor of 7th edition for 2014 summer ! How on Earth ?!? * news p.45*

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**ClockworkZion**

Wakshaani wrote:
So, let's say that the 25% rumor is correct.

(You MUST take at least 25% of your army in Troops. You may take UP TO 25% in each category of HQ, Elite, Fast Attack, and.or Heavy Support)

Would dedicated transports count as troops? SHOULD they?

Where do Fortification and Lords of War come from? Do we get a 25% for them as well and call it a day?

How should it come together?

DTs would be fine if Wave Serpents had a small change:
Serpent Shields are One Shot Only, and have a 24" range. That pretty much solves most of the issues with them pretty quick.

**Ralis**

ClockworkZion wrote:
Wakshaani wrote:
So, let's say that the 25% rumor is correct.

(You MUST take at least 25% of your army in Troops. You may take UP TO 25% in each category of HQ, Elite, Fast Attack, and.or Heavy Support)

Would dedicated transports count as troops? SHOULD they?

Where do Fortification and Lords of War come from? Do we get a 25% for them as well and call it a day?

How should it come together?

DTs would be fine if Wave Serpents had a small change:
Serpent Shields are One Shot Only, and have a 24" range. That pretty much solves most of the issues with them pretty quick.

Exalted.

**Colpicklejar**

Herzlos wrote:

I'd be all for something that makes assaulting much more risky, like giving the defenders +1BS if they didn't move in their last turn, or giving them the choice of a good defensive shot (normal BS) or preparing for the assault (say +1WS on the first round).

In my opinion that would be absolutely awful. There are currently plenty of armies that do nothing aside from stand behind an ADL and mindlessly pour fire onto the entire board. Some of them don't even need line of sight. Why would you give them further incentive to stay put?

**Harriticus**

I eagerly await 8th edition in 2015.

**Bronzefists42**

Assault has so many risk factors currently that it has invalidated almost every assault list.

**Wakshaani**

ClockworkZion wrote:
Wakshaani wrote:
So, let's say that the 25% rumor is correct.

(You MUST take at least 25% of your army in Troops. You may take UP TO 25% in each category of HQ, Elite, Fast Attack, and.or Heavy Support)

Would dedicated transports count as troops? SHOULD they?

Where do Fortification and Lords of War come from? Do we get a 25% for them as well and call it a day?

How should it come together?

DTs would be fine if Wave Serpents had a small change:
Serpent Shields are One Shot Only, and have a 24" range. That pretty much solves most of the issues with them pretty quick.

Capstone that with, "Once fired, they don't regenerate for the game" (Thus the defensive side is also down) and color it golden. Now, it's an actual tactical choice.

**ClockworkZion**

That's what I meant by one use only, but yes that is the thing that polishes it nicely.

**soupfly**

that would be fine if they didn't cost as much much as a proper tank. Half the points cost and then it is viable.

**AlmightyWalrus**

soupfly wrote:
that would be fine if they didn't cost as much much as a proper tank. Half the points cost and then it is viable.

Half the points cost for an AV12 skimmer transport with MBT shooting (even with the shield being one-shot) that still has the option to be harder to kill with Lascannons than a Land Raider? Get real.

**Formosa**

AlmightyWalrus wrote:
soupfly wrote:
that would be fine if they didn't cost as much much as a proper tank. Half the points cost and then it is viable.

Half the points cost for an AV12 skimmer transport with MBT shooting (even with the shield being one-shot) that still has the option to be harder to kill with Lascannons than a Land Raider? Get real.

Haha madness, with these changes the serp actually does become over costed... By about 10pts... Big woop.

**ClockworkZion**

Formosa wrote:
AlmightyWalrus wrote:
soupfly wrote:
that would be fine if they didn't cost as much much as a proper tank. Half the points cost and then it is viable.

Half the points cost for an AV12 skimmer transport with MBT shooting (even with the shield being one-shot) that still has the option to be harder to kill with Lascannons than a Land Raider? Get real.

Haha madness, with these changes the serp actually does become over costed... By about 10pts... Big woop.

It still has a shield that downgrades pens to glances at no real cost so there is the 10 points right there.

**Commander_Farsight**

To be honest, at this rate, I am starting to want a "7th" edition. Personally I would rather spend like $70 on a book and have it contain all of the rules I need, instead of having to buy $40 rules supplements if I want to play escalation and stronghold assault. I am starting to have to carry a lot of books around with me now when I am going to a game. Thoughts?

**Exergy**

Accolade wrote:
Kosake wrote:
Brother SRM wrote:
I don't buy it. There's actually no way for the Marines to kill 5 Meganobz in that kit, and while the starter sets haven't been perfectly balanced, that seems a bit harsh. That and typical Faeit salt needs to be applied. All that and Dark Vengeance is still available on the website.

So? Was AOBR ballanced? Tons of Marines, Terminators, a cybot vs. a bunch of orks, 5 nobs and the deffcoptas. I made the calculation, even without equipment it was like 400 pts Orks vs 750 pts marines IIRC.

Yes, but in the case of AOBR it was the Marines walloping the damn xenos.

In this new case, Xenos walloping the Marines? In the demo game? Ha, I think not!

Back in third DE had absolutely no way to down the SM landspeeder. Yes splinter cannons were str4 back then, but even with that, you just werent gonna bring it down.

DV is also pretty skewed to DA. Chaos has a plasma pistol, a power axe, a power fist and the helbrute to do through a ton of 2+ saves.

**Leth**

pretre wrote:
Natfka's doubling down.
http://natfka.blogspot.com/2014/04/7th-edition-rule-changes.html

via an anonymous source on Faeit 212
- 7th 40k edition is only a minor update
I hope so, that would be nice to not have to learn a lot more
- 40k run is part of the movement phase
I really like this. One of the things I think slows down the game is the number of separate times you might need to move a unit, I think a small rules change like this will really help horde armies while still being compatible with the current rules for the most part
- assault distance is not influenced by terrain, but gives minus two to
initiative
fething awesome. Although it doesn't solve all the assault problems it really takes out a lot of the handicap for assaulting for units. Big improvement. In addition super elite units without grenades dont get screwed over anymore
- vector strikes allow armour saves, but deal one to six hits
I like it. Still very good against vehicles, but not point and click remove units like it was
- 40k uses a percentage system for the army list
This I highly doubt and wouldnt solve any problems
- you can bring as many different allies as you want. You can spend a
fourth of your points on allies, but they also count as their normal
category
Highly doubt this as well
- you can bring three allies to a game and must choose one
This one might be possible but once again I highly doubt it
- bikes can strike units in 1” in the movement phase without assaulting
just like chariots, but can attacked back
Doubt it
- fortification and lords of war rules are in, but no profiles
I can see the rules being there but more likely as an addendum instead of for a standard game. Even then I still dont see people allowing them at tournaments or most casual play
- you have to pass a initiative test to shoot overwatching, get minus three
to ballistic
If it is both combined, I like it. Just one or the other is kinda meh
- you can engage new unit after victory in melee, but enemy can shoot
overwatch again
I doubt they are going to bring back consolidate into combat, but it would be interesting to see if it happened.
- you can choose to flee if you are charged but can be destroyed
Doubt it
- if you want to run in 12” of enemy you have to pass a leadertest
Doubt it
- vehicles get no cover saves against infantry, only against other vehicles
Doubt it

I think they are definitely going to do something with walkers(just a hunch) since they got the shaft this edition and there are a lot of plastic kits that would start flying off the shelfs if they fixed them again. Imagine if the walkers only lost hull points and then destroyed? That would make them useable while not being over the top.

**ductvader**

As soon as I saw War Walkers get it, I thought all of them would...a 5+ invulnerable.

**warboss**

ductvader wrote:
As soon as I saw War Walkers get it, I thought all of them would...a 5+ invulnerable.

Why? They're no more durable than any other vehicle so why should they get a special boost when others don't? What they need to do is equalize the damage systems between "organic" models and vehicles. As it stands right now, vehicles can be one shotted or gimped in effectiveness with each shot whereas organic toughness models can't. Either that needs to go or they need to incorporate some sort of penalty for losing wounds to make it a bit more equitable for a walker to fight a monstrous creature. Something like -1 to all stats if at less than half or less wounds would be simple and might work. A monstrous creature like a riptide fights at full effectiveness despite being almost dead but a vehicle like a dread can be made useless (CC dread who is immobilized) with a single shot and most of its hull points remaining. I personally think that a complete overhaul would be better but really doubt that would ever happen so I'm just hoping they do something to equalize the damage systems.

**monkeypuzzle**

As soon as war walkers got it? War walker pilots have had a force field protecting them since they started in 2nd edition.

**Crablezworth**

Bronzefists42 wrote:
Assault has so many risk factors currently that it has invalidated almost every assault list.

Agreed, and sadly even if you try and help that a bit by having a lot of los blockers and dense terrain you still have to contend with overwatch and terrible luck on the charge.

I think they have to change how charging works, make it either 6 or your choice of trying a "heroic" charge that is 2d6.

That or at the very least make the minimum charge of a unit its initiative value then give the option for "heroic" charge of 2d6.

**DarkTraveler777**

Crablezworth wrote:

That or at the very least make the minimum charge of a unit its initiative value then give the option for "heroic" charge of 2d6.

Oh, I like that idea! What about charge range is equal to your initiative stat + d6?

Would make my Wyches not complete crap.

**Azreal13**

Charging being a fixed number of inches+a random number of inches might work. 6+D6" seems a little too much, with fleet units that would statistically give 10"+ charges 2/3 of the time.

Maybe 6"+D3" or 3"+D6"?

Automatically Appended Next Post:

DarkTraveler777 wrote:
Crablezworth wrote:

That or at the very least make the minimum charge of a unit its initiative value then give the option for "heroic" charge of 2d6.

Oh, I like that idea! What about charge range is equal to your initiative stat + d6?

Would make my Wyches not complete crap.

Daemon Princes start cackling and rubbing their hands together....

**Crablezworth**

The problem for me is it's kinda stupid to take like 50% casualties just to make it into combat, likely the only one said unit will get into this game and then they fail like a 3-4 inch charge, I mean you already have the variable of overwatch to contend with.

Don't even get me started on how move through cover apparently does nothing for charges, that seems like a bit of an oversight.

**DarkTraveler777**

azreal13 wrote:

DarkTraveler777 wrote:
Crablezworth wrote:

That or at the very least make the minimum charge of a unit its initiative value then give the option for "heroic" charge of 2d6.

Oh, I like that idea! What about charge range is equal to your initiative stat + d6?

Would make my Wyches not complete crap.

Daemon Princes start cackling and rubbing their hands together....

Then add a cap (max 6" from Initiative). Or allow that warp-born supernatural demi-gods are good at smashing face. As are coked-out space elves who live to fight in death arenas.

**Tannhauser42**

I'd like see something that makes assault more brutal, so we don't have the usual tarpits (like a squad of assault marines getting tied up by a squad of tactical marines for four turns because the rolls suck). Maybe give some sort of bonus in the next round to whoever wins the combat.

I would also like to be able to actually shoot with the pistols on my assault marines. Currently, I never get to fire the pistols before I charge, because I don't dare actually kill one of the opposing models and make the charge range even longer.

**Slayer le boucher**

Captain America, le soldat de l'hiver en streaming 6+D6 wirks like in fantasy , so its not a bad idea.

You can do an average of the same distance with 2D6, but then at the critical moment when you need to make 3 or 4" to enter in contact in open terrain so no obstacle and you manage to make a 2, thats what is really ridiculous...

So a sure 6" because its the short distance that a unit can easely run without any problems, the +D6" is if they are really motivated and in the momentum.

**Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl**

Tannhauser42 wrote:
I'd like see something that makes assault more brutal, so we don't have the usual tarpits (like a squad of assault marines getting tied up by a squad of tactical marines for four turns because the rolls suck).

It exists, it is called sweeping advance. But stupid marines that make up to almost half of the stupid armies in this stupid game are stupidly immune to it. And fearless unit too, but those are usually either something that will be able to put a fight rather than just block you in combat, or are dedicated to tarpitting, so it is somehow normal they are able to do it.

Slayer le boucher wrote:
Captain America, le soldat de l'hiver en streaming 6+D6 wirks like in fantasy , so its not a bad idea.

Uh, what ? So, why not going to see in a theater rather than on a tiny computer screen, with a tiny sound system ?

**gorgon**

Tannhauser42 wrote:
I would also like to be able to actually shoot with the pistols on my assault marines. Currently, I never get to fire the pistols before I charge, because I don't dare actually kill one of the opposing models and make the charge range even longer.

That mechanic has been dumb ever since 3rd ed was launched. Its younger but even dumber cousin ("don't do *too* much damage in the first round of CC") is even more prevalent now that consolidation into assault isn't legal.

**pretre**

Slayer le boucher wrote:
Captain America, le soldat de l'hiver en streaming

Heh. Cut and paste fail.

**Kroothawk**

a "must remain anomymous" source on faeit212 wrote:-7th edition will come in June
-New fortification rules and Lords of War will both be in the new rulebook as standard, there are some changes from what we have now.
-There will be a new phase added to the game, a psychic phase.

**Sinful Hero**

Kroothawk wrote:
a "must remain anomymous" source on faeit212 wrote:-7th edition will come in June
-New fortification rules and Lords of War will both be in the new rulebook as standard, there are some changes from what we have now.
-There will be a new phase added to the game, a psychic phase.

Wouldn't adding another phase slow things down a little more- although if it happens before movement that could clarify a lot of issues with timing.

**Sigvatr**

Great, a "feth you, Necrons!" phase.

7th edition is a make-or-break point for 40k. Right now, the game is in a desasterous state balance-wise, at a point, where balance seems completely random and all over the place with no clear rule besides "Make everything cheaper so people buy more models!". On top of that, Escalation / Lords of War further escalated (ha!) the conflict by adding D weapons to regular 40k, further introducing downright broken crap like the Transcendent C'tan.

Not to mention that releasing a new edition so soon after 6th is nothing but a mere cash-in by GW, realizing that WHFB is better off left behind, focusing on 40k.

Not completely convinced we will see 7th in June, it just seems so unlikely to be released so soon after the previous one.